who have never been baptized with outward Water since they believed Enq. Own they the Lords Supper Res. Yea the Supper of the Lord they own and at the Table of the Lord which is richly furnished they sit and do eat abundantly to the eternal refreshing of their souls Enq. Well but do they break bread and drink wine at that Table like as professed Christians do Res. The Bread that they break is the Body of Christ and the Cup that they drink is the Blood of Christ but many professed Christians who talks of the Lords Table discerns not his Body and so eats and drinks their own damnation yet notwithstanding Christians in Christ breaks one Bread and drinks of one Cup they have unity one with another even as these people do witness with whom Christ doth â—up and to the substance they are come and therefore go they not by Imitation â—ike as many do who are called Christians who yet never came to eat the flesh of Christ nor to drink his blood and therefore have they no life abiding in them Enq. But yet there is something more in which I desire also to be satisfied concerning these People for many exclaims out against them for judging and condemning others Now pray thee tell me what do they judge in others any thing besides that which is condemned in themselves Res. Nay It is that onely to wit deceit and unrighteousness which the judgements of the Lord hath passed upon in their own particular and when they meet with such as pleads for that which is ordained of old for condemnation perhaps they may sharply reprove them if they judge not the deceit in them then the party reproved being one that cannot stand in the judgement exclaims out against them as if they were censorious Judges and horrid blasphemers when they have judged and reproved nothing but deceit in them and that which is to be eternally condemned even the very same that is judged in their own particulars Enq. Well but duth not Christ say Iudge not that you be not judged And Paul saith The man that judgeth is inexcusable whosoever he is Res. Yea those are the words of Christ and Paul by the way take notice of the following words did not Christ there speak to the hypocrite that beheld the Moâ—e that was in his brothers eye but considered not the beam that was in his own eye And â—ake Paul's words also as they are Thou art inexcusable O man saith he whosoever thou art that judgest for wherein thou â—â—udgest another mark wel thou condemâ—nest thy self for thou that judgest dost the â—â—ame things There is now the man that is â—nexcusable who judgeth another for that which he is guilty of himself and if thou â—or any man can tax these people in this â—hen say that they are inexcusable who are â—â—ound guilty in this thing Enq. There is another thing which men â—â—ath against them which is this They say â—hat they will not respect persons but to a Prince or Lord or whatsoever that he is they will say Thee and Thou to him and stand with â—heir Hats on in his presence as if he were a â—an of no reputation Is this true Res. He who is their God who hath â—ade of one blood all Nations of men for â—o dwell upon the face of the earth he is no respecter of persons and if they who â—are his people should have respect to persons they should commit sin and would be convinced of the Law as Transgressors and for them to have respect of persons that were not good and as for the properness of Thee and Thou I have shewed thee before And vvhy may not they stand vvith their hats on in the presence of the greatest man upon the face of the earth â—eâ—ing that they stand daily covered in the presence of their God vvhose Name is the Lord of Hosts vvho filleth Heaven and Earth in vvhom they honor all men vvithout the respecting of any ones person or the greatness and magnificency of any for vvhat is man but dust and vvherefore should he be adored by his Fellovv-creature as if honor pertained to him vvhich indeed is onely due to his Creator vvho formed him of the dust to vvhich he must return and then his honor shall be laid in the dust vvith him Enq Well but hear these people say that they are moved of the Lord to do this and the other and that they are sent of God to publish his truth now if this were true they should turn many from their wickedness should they not Res. The truth they must acknowledge whether they before whom it is acknowledged can bear it or no the which truth hath been often rejected by such as resist the Holy Ghost by the which these peoâ—le have been often moved to declare unâ—â— the sons of Adam their sin and to shew â—hem their transgression and to exhort â—em to repentance amendment of life â—nd many have been turned from darkness 〈◊〉 light from the power of Satan unto God by those among them that were sent 〈◊〉 publish his Trâ—th and to preach his eâ—erlasting Gospel unto the Spirits in Priâ—â—n yea thousands are converted turâ—ed from iniquity and wickedness and are â—rought to serve God in purity and holyâ—ess in his own Temple and therefore they â—ave not run as uncertainly or without â—â—â—ding neither have they fought as one â—â—at beateth the air for they who are turâ—ed from wickedness by them are the seal 〈◊〉 their Apostleship in the Lord Enq. It is said that they permit women to â—eak or prophesie among them Is not that exâ—esâ—y against the Scripture For did not Paul 〈◊〉 that he would not permit a woman to speak 〈◊〉 the Church And where do they read of any â—omen in the New-Testament that prophesied Res. For Women to prophesie upon â—hom the Spirit of the Lord is poured out â— not expresly against the Scripture but a â—â—â—filling of the Scripture for the Scripture â—ith That is shall come to pass afterward â—â—at I the Lord will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh your sons your daughters shall prophesie Now the fulfilling of this these people do witness who will noâ— permit a Woman upon whom the spirâ—â— of the Lord is not poured out to speak in the Church but notwithstanding every Sister in Christ upon whom the spirit of the Lord is poured out who by that spirit is moved to prophesie they forbid not foâ— the same Paul that did not permit a Woman to speak in the Church he wrote unâ—to the Church that they should not quench the spirit nor despise Prophesie neither do we read that he nor none of his company did forbid Philip's daughters to prophesie Acts 21. 8 9. who were Virgins and four in number upon whom the spirit of the Lord was poured out who wil say that he would have quenched the spirit in Phoebe if she had been moved by it to prophesie in that Church of
world Res. This is but words springing forth of â—heir persecutors and back-biters will not say the same to their face when they are present to answer for themselves and for the Truth But tell me couldst thou with Mâ—ses rather sâ—ffer affliction with such a people to wit Imprisonment spoiling of thy Goods loss of thy good name and reputation and be bitten with the Priests mouths to be deprived of thy liberty estate to be seperated from thy wife and children kindreds and relations wouldst thou suffer this for the truth's sake as these people are ready to do when they are thereunto called Would not this cross fall on thee heavy this way prove to thee strait and this gate narrow Wouldst thou not rather chuse to enjoy the pleasures of sin the delights and vanities of the world the pleasures and renown thereof while that thou livest in the same thou maist enquire after the certainty of the reports which are reported of those that are redeemed from those things in which thou livest and confess the truth of that which they possess and thou thy self be out of it Enq. That is true but I hope we need not be so severe and strict so wilâ—ul as to leavâ— our wives and children and callings for dost 〈◊〉 not know that he that doth not provide for his Family is worse then an Infidel Res. Thou canst not be too strict and severe in godliness but thou waist be too wilful peevish and perverse in wickedness too faithless in trusting God to provide for those that he hath given thee in that particular thou maist be as an Infidel thy self or as one of the Gentiles which seeketh after things pertaining to this life saying What shall we eat or what shall we drink or wherewithall shall we be cloathed but by taking of thought they cannot add one cubit unto their stature Now if thou come to the light wherewith Jesus Christ hath enlightned thee it will bring thee to the faith of Gods elect by which the ust doth live and then thou wilt come to provide things honest in the sight of all men to be diligent in the creation serving the Lord in thy place calling wherein thou art to abide and not voluntarily to leave thy wife children without providing for thy Family that which is honest decent and fitting otherwise thou wilt be condemned by the light in thy conscience which is a swift witness against all wilfulness peevishness and perversness both in Jew and Gentile Enq. Well these things doth pertain to oneâ— own particular â—hich indeed are good in themsâ—â—ves but I woulâ— be further informed â—oncernâ—â—g these people called quakers in general I would have thee tell me how they came to have that name and who gave it them Res. To speak of things which concerns ones own particular is commonly the most beneficial but it is the property of fools to be busie in other mens matters but let us come to thy question how they came to have that name the which I intend to declare unto thee if the Lord will After that the Lord had visited them in his everlasting love and convinced them of his eternal truth then did he manifest his eternal power in them which made the strong man to bow himself and the keepers of the house to tremble by the operation of which power the bodies of some of these people came to be shaken like as David's was and this being apparent unto many spectators who despised and wondred at the workings of the power of the Lord these despisers and wonderers who were also scorners did from hence give these people this Name so that thou may take notice that it was the generation of scorners that gave them it Enq. Now I understand it but thou hints David as though he had been a quaker 't is true fearfulness trembling came uâ—on him but was there any other of the holy men of God that quaked if so why then do the people think it so strange now Res. The work of the Lord was eveâ— strange to the world for when David quâ—ked trembled and roared all they thaâ— saw him laught him to scorn so that hâ— was a reproach of men and despised of the people and his words do the scoffers and scorners oâ— this generation read and sing and reproacheth and despiseth them thaâ— tremble quake at the Word of the Lord as he did There were other of the holy men of God that were quakers as for example Moâ—es he was one that did fear and quake and the Prophet Haba kuk his lips quivered his belly shook and rottennesâ— entred into his bones and that was strange to the men of his generation like as David's quakings and roarings was strange and wonderful in his dayes and several more examples might be instanced by which the ignorance of this generation might more fully be understood and manifested Some of which hath not been afraid to call the power of God which hath made thesâ— people to quake and tremble Wiâ—chcraft and to say that it was of the Devil but they were such as spoke evil of Dignities and did erre not knowing the Scripture which speaketh of quakers nor the power of God which causeth the fleshly man to quake and the keepers oâ— the house to tremble the which these people do witness Enq. But as touching their Worship or the manner of it what is it Read they sing they or pray they in their Meetings Or deny they singing and praying as is reported of them Res. Their manner of Worship doth differ very much from the world and they that are of the world can neither take pleasure nor delight in it for when they come together they wait upon the Lord in his light it may be sometimes two or three hours in silence and sometime it hapneth that in less space then one hour some of them may be moved to speak more or less to the edifying of the rest in the mosâ— holy Faith but their Worship consisteth not in words but in spirit and in truth and in the light of truth they read their own conditions which light doth open unto them the misteries of the kingdom And for singing and praying they do them both with the spirit and with understanding but the formal singing and praying of the world which is not in the spirit nor with understanding this they do deny for they see that God is not honored by it and that which dishonoureth God they disown but that which honoreth and exalteth him alone to that their souls are united and dearly they do it own Enq. But this doth seem very strange 〈◊〉 me that they should sit some hours together silence had they not better read pray anâ— sing that they might thereby get the motionâ— the spirit by exercising of themselves in sâ—cred devotion Res. It seemeth not strange unto theâ— alone but unto thousands more who canâ— not apprehend that which they are
whom the law of the land alloweth tythe whether do they pay them or suffer the penalty of the law the cruelty of such men Res. O alas The covetous hirelings they are so spread over the Nation that scarce either city or parish are free of them and truly volums might be filed of the sufferings of these harmless people which they undergo have undergone in that particular through the cruelty mercilessness of that unreasonable generation of greedy perverse priests whose blessings are cursed whose seed is corrupted for truly they have even made havock of the people who for conscience sake cannot pay tythe therefore have their goods been pitifuly spoiled as hath been pretty largely published to the shame confusion of these merciless cruel men but a book of remembrance is writ and their actions are upon record Enq. But are these people so simple that they will not go to Law with those that wrong them what is not the Law open and the Magistrates will do justice will they not Res. If thou observed Christs words wel thou would not cal them simple for not going to Law with their adversaries for did he not say if any man wil sue thee at the Law and take away thy Coat let him have thy Cloak also now they that walk in his light who spoke these words they abide in his doctrine when their adversary hath sued them recovered treble damage taketh away twice the worth of that which he recovered they resist not but bears it patiently knowing this that there is one that wil plead their cause to vvhom vengeance belongs and he will repay And although that the law be open yet they are not free to go to it For what said Paul to the â—orinthians did he not tell them that there was utterly a fault among them because they did go to law one with another why saith he do you not rather take wrong why do you not rather suffer your selves to be defrauded so that here thou may see it doth not become Saints to go to Law and that especially before them that are out of the truth for such Magistrates will connive at the sufferings of the oppressed not reprove the oppressors who ought by magistrates to be rebuked But there are some prudent understanding men that are much wearied with being so daily incumbred with the beggerly suits of these covetous priests against these harmless innocent people And some of the Magistrates are backvvard enough in doing Justice and too forward in fulfilling the desires of unjust men vvho deals unjustly with these people this is not unknovvn to some in authority whose bovvels are sometime moved with compassion to behold the many greivances and annoyances vvhich are daily renewed upon these that fear the Lord Enq. I suppose that Saints in former ages have suffered much by the untoward generation have they not Res. Yea yea a cloud of vvitnesses might be produced of the sufferings of the Saints some of which had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings of bonds and imprisonments some of them were stoned others sawn assunder others slain with the sword c. he that was a precious Saint a sufferer by the untoward generation he testified and said that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God further he said that they that will live godly in Christ Jesus must suffer persecution Enq. But these whom thou mentionest were comforted in the midest of their tribulations and sufferings are these people so Res. Yea they also are comforted in their tribulations that they are able to comfort them which are in trouble by the comfort wherewith they themselves are comforted of God for as the sufferings of Christ abound in them so their consolation also aboundeth by Christ of which all the opposers and adversaries in the world cannot deprive them of they may be bereaved of their goods separated from their friends and brethren be debarred of their liberty freedom by the power of their adversary but his power extendeth not so far as to deprive them of their peace in him which is their life and of the comfort and consolation which they receive from him and that they prefer above the whole world Enq. and how comes it that so many of them are cast into prisoâ— and some whipped and others banished from some places Is it for misdemeanour or for the truths sake Res. Thus it is many of them have been mov'd of the Lord to go to Steeple-houses wch are call'd churches to speak unto the priest people that which the Lord was pleased to lay upon them to declare it may be somtime before the priest had done and somtime after so some in authority being then present have forthwith sent them to prison for disturbing the congregation as they said it may be have caused them to be whip'd c. for this very particular hundreds have been put in prison several others have been cast into prison because they could not pay Tythe to the hireling Priests others because they could not swear others because they have not put off their Hats before Magistrates others for going to visit their friends that hath been in prison others for riding above five miles upon a first day to a meeting others for speaking a few words in a street or a market to people whom they have exhorted to fear the Lord others for speaking to â—ome upon the high way for such like â—hings as these are the most part of them 〈◊〉 if not all cast into prison and some of â—hem have been fined for standing coverâ—d before the Judge and hath laid above a â—ear or years in prison for non-paiment of the fine and some of them after they â—ave â—uffered imprisonment a certain time have been banished and sent away like â—agabonds more favour is shewed unto â—alefactors by many in authority then is â—fforded them and all this do they patiently suffer for righteousness sake Enq. It seems by thy relation of them they suffer much wrong do they not petition unto the powers of the earth for relief and make â—heir redress unto them in such causes Res. They cry unto them for Justice but to petition unto them as unto Gods they cannot in the least do it although many petitions have been put up against them but that doth not molest nor troubble them whose trust and confidence is in the Lord by whom they do expect to be delivered not by the arm of flesh their manifold greivances are not hid from the Lord who will arise and plead their cause and rebuke those that afflict them and severely punish those that do oppress them Enq. But in the mean time do they not seek to avenge themselves of their adversaries seeiâ—g they are now become a great body Res. O no they have no such thoughts for they have referred their cause wholly to the Lord to
doth it not Enq. Well but it is a fashion which men â—ve and a token of civiâ— respect had they â—t better please men by conforming unto them 〈◊〉 this thing of small importance then to ofâ—nd them through abstaining from doing of it â—r we read that Paul became all to all unto 〈◊〉 Iews he became as a Iew c. Res. The fashions of this World will â—ass away but the Word of God endures for â—ver by which Word these people 〈◊〉 redeemed from the World so that theâ— cannot be conformable to it in its wayâ— worships customs and fashions all whiâ—â— will pass away and if they should seek 〈◊〉 please men then were they not the seâ—â—vants of Christ whose servants never 〈◊〉 such a token of civil respect as doffing 〈◊〉 the hat that we read of in the whole Scâ—â—pture and who dare call them his servanâ— that receive honor of men from their haâ—â— and are offended if it be not given theâ— surely they are not like unto him in the thing for he received not honor from meâ— neither did he seek it but said unto thoâ— that did How can ye believe that receiâ—â— honor one of another and seek not 〈◊〉 honor that cometh from God onely And although Paul became as a Jew uâ—â— to the Jews as without law to them thâ—â— were without law yea all things to all meâ— this he did for the Gospels sake not 〈◊〉 please men but that he might by all meaâ— save some therefore condescended he 〈◊〉 the simplicity in them speaking low thinâ—â— to their capacity and understanding the so by guile he might catch them and gaâ— or win them to the truth but who dare 〈◊〉 that he became an Idol-worshipper witâ— Idolaters If so how should he havâ— brought any from that Idolatry to have worshipped the living God Or who dare say that he became an opposer of Truth with opposers If so how should he have gained any of them to the truth but it was not so with Paul who shewed himselfe in all things approved of God â—n whose sight he commended himself to every mans conscience Enq. I am perswaded that if these People â—ere admitted to answer for theâ—selves upon â—ll occasions many would come to be satisfied 〈◊〉 things concerning them wherein they are 〈◊〉 inform'd Res. Oh yea but alas such reports are â—umored abroad of them by such as say â—eport and we will report it as is not fitâ—ng to be named among Christians and â—ese Reports being credited or regarded â—y simple people they become odious and â—espised among men and therefore is it â—at there is so much whooting and hissing 〈◊〉 them in the streets but if they might 〈◊〉 admitted to make their own defence in â—e presence of prudent and understanding â—en having their accusers face to face to â—ove their accusations that they have aâ—inst them I believe many would come to 〈◊〉 better satisfied the mouths of gain 〈◊〉 would come to be stopped and the ignorance of foolish men would come to be silenced but that is the policy and subtilty of their grand Adversary who was a Lyar from the beginning to make people believe all the horrid lies that can be spoken invented of them and thereby comes the minds of thousands to be evil affected against the precious truth which if theâ— were but rightly informed of the certainty of things reported they would either bâ— brought to the acknowledgement of the truth otherwise to lay their hands upoâ— their mouths and become silent if theâ— were not evil men and seducers and sucâ— thou knowest will grow worse and worsâ— Enq. Hath the truth of God been so dâ—famed blasphemed and reproached in othâ—â— generations as it is now in this age Res. Yea in all ages when the Lord appeared by his power to reveal his precioâ—â— Truth upon the face of the earth Satâ—â— who goes to fro in the earth hath stiâ—red up his instruments to defame blaâ—pheme and reproach it by whose blasphâ—mies the living Truth hath been much â—â—faced and so it is now at this day by 〈◊〉 multitude of lyes false reports and aspeâ—â—ons which are cast upon it by wicked aâ— ungodly men who cry out against such 〈◊〉 formerly have defamed blasphemed aâ—â— reproached the Truth and they themselâ—â—â— are blasphemers and reproachers like as the Jews did who exclaimed against their Fathers for killing the Prophets yet they themselves put him to death who was the Prince of Glory of whom the Prophets prophesied Enq. But I would yet ask something concerning these People Baptize they their children Or are they themselves baptized Res. Their children they do not baptize according to the course of the World for they find no Scripture that speaks of Infants baptism nor no example in the Scripture for the same yet they who are in the unity are baptized by one Spirit into one Body and so many of them as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death that they should walk in newness of life and this is the onely baptism which they do witness Enq But were â—hey never baptized with Elementary water Res. Some of them in the time of ignorance were baptized with outward Water supposing that it were necessary for salvaâ—ion but after they had taken up the Ordiâ—ance they took up their rest also in the â—ead form did apply the Promises whicâ—â—as due to Believers although little or no â—eformation was wrought in them yet â—hey were conceited in themselves that it was well with them until the Lord in his infinite love opened their blind eyes and then they saw themselves to be poor naked and miserable that that rest which they had taken up was not the rest which the Lord had prepared for his people neither was that baptism wherewith they were baptized the baptism which should save them by the resurrection of Jesus Christ neither did the Promises pertain unto them which they had applyed to themselves and that which gave them to see these things was the light of Jesus Christ in them bywhich they were brought afterwards to witness the baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire Enq. But are there none of them sent to baptize that so others being baptized by them might come to witness the one baptism also Res. The same command that Christ gave at the first he is with us to the end of the World which is Go teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father of the Son of the Holy Ghost but here is no outward Water mentioned and the everlasting Gospel they are sent to preach and they do turn people from darkness to light from the power of Satan unto God and so many as receive their testimony believe in the light which they are turned unto they come to witness the one baptism which is by one spirit into one body although they be never dipped nor sprinkled with outward Water and hundreds of these people are come to witness this