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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	blood_n	body_n	jesus_n	12,126	5	6.1739	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A64381	A true account of a conference held about religion at London, Septemb. 29, 1687 between A. Pulton, Jesuit, and Tho. Tenison, D.D. as also of that which led to it, and followed after it / by Tho. Tenison.	Tenison, Thomas, 1636-1715.	1687 (1687)	Wing T723; ESTC R18602	49,387	102

U. and Mrs. U. declared by themselves and the rather upon their taking notice of certain Arts of Lying not so much before observed by them she own'd that the aforesaid Stories were us'd by a Roman as Arguments to turn her I believe there might be false Stories to the prejudice of Mr. P. and his Friends but to the end that false Reports may not on either hand prevail this Account is written by D. T. which Mr. P. wheresoever he thinks it is faulty may please to correct Tho. Tenison A Pursuit of that which was said in the Conference about the three first Quotations viz. out of S. Ambrose de Sacramentis S. Cyril of Hierusalem in his Catechism and Justin Martyr in his Apology c. 1. FOR the Book de Sacramentis as not genuine it may suffice at present to say That though there was a Book written by S. Ambrose under that Title this is not it there not being found in this the Places which S. Austin cited out of that That the style is plainly more moderen and rude than that of S. Ambrose and his Age That the version of the places of Scripture mention'd in this Book is not the same with that which S. Ambrose uses in his genuine Works That this Book is taken notice of by the Writers of the 8th and 9th Age the time of the introducing of the Corporeal Presence The very eminent Cardinal Bona whose credit is greater than that of Alexander Natalis do's own all this the last words excepted Haec Ambrosius si tamen ipse horum librorum qui de Sacramentis inscribuntur Auctor est Testatur quidem Augustinus scripsisse Ambrosium libros de Sacramentis sive de Philosophia adverfus l'latonem quorum meminit lib. 2. Retract cap. 4. doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 28. eosque pe●iit sibi mitti à S. Paulino Ep. 34. sed illi vel perierunt vel alicubi latent longè diversi sunt ab his qui nunc extant ut patet ex sententiis quas ex illis citat idem August lib. 2. primi operis adversus Julianum cap. 5. tribus sequentibus De his verò quos hodiè habemus fecit primò ut dubitarem styli diversitas cùm enim opera Ambrosii ante aliquot annos haud perfunctoriè percurrerem 〈◊〉 ad hoc pervent visus sum mihi alterius lingue hominem ab Ambrosio prorsus diversum loquentem audire Tum animadverti loca scripturae in his citata non esse ejus versionis quâ in aliis libris Ambrosius uti consuevit Quaedam etiam in his reperi quae seculo Ambrosii minùs convenire visa sunt Nihilominùs à Scriptoribus octavi nani seculi laudantur saepiùs tanquam Ambrosii legitimus foetus quorum auctoritati cedens eos deinceps sub ejus nomine cujus est possessio semper cit abo It is true he says at the end of his Discourse that notwithstanding his Reasons before alledged he yields to the Authority of the Writers of the 8th and 9th Age and that seeing they are in possession he will henceforth cite this Book under the name of S. Ambrose But considering the Time and the Doctrine then preparing for the papal stamp who wants the fagacity of understanding to what purpose this Book was forg'd and then brought forth as out of its antient mouldiness And for the humility of the Cardinal's deference to such late Authority against his solid reasons and judgment all know what that means in the Roman Communion where Writers after knowing that they have said things against the genius of that Church do in the end submit all at her feet So did Des-Cartes whose principles are utterly inconsistent with Transubstantiation So did Molinos the Father of the numberless off-spring of the present Quietists For this is the Conclusion of his first amply licensed and then rigidly condemned Guida spirituale Il tutto sottoponga humilimente prostrato alla Correttione della Santa Chiesa Catolica Romana After all this I do allow that Mr. P. was the less to be blamed in this Quotation considered as a Romanist because he cited it out of his Breviary and believ'd as his Church believed Of this spurious S. Ambrose and of the doctrine of the Eucharist in the true S. Ambrose I will say more when more is required I will add only at this time these two things First The Author cited out of the Breviary suppose him S. Ambrose is inconsistent with himself if Transubstantiation be an Article of his Faith. For he saith in another place non iste panis est qui vadit in Corpus sed ille panis vitae aeternae qui animae nostrae Substantiam fulcit That is it is not that Bread which goes into the Body but the Bread of Life eternal which sustains the substance of the Soul. Now what a Judge has Mr. P. chosen toward the deciding of a Controversie in which he is not reconcil'd to himself Secondly This Author in all probability has been further tamper'd with for he would scarce have said that in the Breviary seeing he own'd the Canon of the Mass in his time to run otherwise than now it does in the Roman Missal and to assert that the Elements were the Figure of Christ's Body Sècondly For the Testimony of S. Cyril it was not that cited thus in the Speculum S. Cyril Alexandrinus c. For Mr. P. spake of S. Cyril of Jerusalem and tho' he did not produce the words yet he said they were those in his fourth Mystagogical Catechism I say now as I then did That the place was long ago fully answered The place of S. Cyril is by a Romanist M. W. thus rendered Tho' you see it to be Bread yet believe it is the Flesh and the Blood of the Lord Jesus Doubt it not since he had said This is my Body And for a proof instances Christ's changing Water into Wine The Answer is this and it is a true one We acknowledge that the words of S. Cyril of Jerusalem were truly cited but for clearing of them we shall neither alledge any thing to the lessening the Authority of that Father tho' we find but a slender Character given of him by Epiphanius and others Nor shall we say any thing to lessen the Authority of these Catechisms tho' much might be said But it is plain S. Cyril's design in these Catechisms was only to possess his Neophytes with a just and deep sense of these holy Symbols But even in his fourth Catechism he bids them not to consider it as meer Bread and Wine for it is the Body and Blood of Christ. By which it appears he thought it was Bread still tho' not meer Bread. And he gives elsewhere a very formal account in what sense he thought it Christ's Body and Blood which he also insinuates in his Fourth Catechism for in his first Mystical Catechism when he exhorts his young Christians to avoid

are very little Remarks but they discover that which by God's Grace I shall always abhor great Shifting and Insincerity 30. He says that Pope Nicholas never taught that the People ate Christ's Flesh as divided into many pieces But how then does he construe the Confession of Berengarius enjoyn'd by the said Pope and his Synod I profess from my Heart that the true Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is and is sensually not only in the Sacrament but in Verity handled and broken by the Priests Hands and ground by the Teeth of the Faithful 32. Dr. T. is said to have cited Mariana and Suarez He never nam'd them The Schoolmaster did He spake only of Becanus and Doleman and of him not under the Name of Parsons for if Parsons own'd that Book he thinks 't was another Person that wrote it 32. Mr. P. ends as he brake up the Conference with insnaring Words about Persecution and the Q. of Scots and the Bill of Exclusion and he writes as if he had been transcribing Philanax or the Book whence he borrow'd Jerusalem and Babel And makes the fierceness of some Men to be the Spirit of the Reformation I will not touch upon indecent Arguments but conclude by wishing that Mr. P. well knew what Spirit he is of THE END a Pasc. Radb de Corp. Sang. Dom. c. 3. op p. 1561. sunt autem sacramenta Christi in Ecclesia baptismus Chrisma corpus quoque domini sanguis a V. Vit. Lutheri ap Melch. Ad. p. 104. b See Lat. Council To. 7. Act. 4. Con. 2. Nic. p. 253 254. Act. 5. p. 382. a La Creance de l Eglise Orientale sur la Transubst c. A Par. 87. a Letter to B. of L. p. 367. a Infra Oct. Corp. Christi Lectio 4. Tu forte dicis meus panis est usitatus Sed panis iste panis est ante verba Sacramentorum ubi accesserit consecratio de pane fit Caro Christi Hoc igitur astruamus quomodo potest qui panis est corpus esse Christi Consecratione Lectio 5. Vides ergo quam operatorius sit sermo Christi Si ergo tanta vis est in sermone Domini Jesu ut inciperent esse quae non erant quanto magis operatorius est ut sint quae erant in aliud commutentur Coelum non erat mare non erat terra non erat Sed audi dicentem ipse dixit facta sunt Ipse mandavit creata sunt Ergo tibi ut respondeam non erat corpus Christi ante consecrationem sed post consecrationem dico tibi quod jam corpus est Christi Ipse dixit est factum ipse mandavit creatum est a Deut. 17. 8 to 13. a Rer. Liturg l. 1. c. 7. p. 351. a Guid 1 Spir. per Il dott Mich. di Molinos sacerdote p. 318. Quarta impressione in Roma 1681. b De Sacr. l. c. c. 4 p. 447. b De Sacram l. 4. cap. 5. p. 439. Accipe quae sunt verba Dicit sacerdos fac nobis inquit banc oblationem ascriptam c. Quod est figura corporis sanguinis D. N. J. Christi c See Relation of a Conference by Ed. Still c. An. 1676. p. 36 37. and Append. p. 50 51 52. d Cyril Catech. Myst. 3. p. 235. and Catech. 4. p. 237. a St. Cyril p. 237. C. a St. Cyril Catech. 3. Il●um p. 16. B. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Sophron. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 D. Hieron l. de Ser. Eccles Quis in Adolescentia composuit b Just. Mart. Apol. 2. p. 97 98. c Gr. Nyss. dc S. Ch. B. a I will prove if you please that this was a common Story T. T. a Diff. betwixt Prot. and Socin Meth. p. 57 58 c. b Judge in Contr. c The Catholick Representer 2 part ch 9. p. 58. * Dr. Jacks Works Tom. 3. cap. 16. p. 870. Rom. 11. 20 21 22. a Gerb. Dissert de Caus. major V. Bref du 8 Decemb. p. 84 85. Act. Cl. Gall. a See Mr. Barclay 's possib and necessity of immed Revel And Scarlot 's Eternal Gospel b Gabiut in vitâ Pii 5. c. 9. p. 102. tandem divino judicio impiam vitam cum sempiternâ morte commutaverit c. a V. H. de Knyghton p. 2647. b Eus. E. Hist. l. 2. c. 14. p. 41 l. 3. c. 1. p. 56 57. V. Orig. Exp. in Gen. Tom. 3. c Lact. de mort Perfec ap Baluz Misc. p. 2 3. * Decreti par 3. 1. 42. de Consecr p. 1932. Corde profiteor verum Corp. Sangu D. N. J Chr. esse sensualiter non solùm sacramento sed in veritate manibus Sacerdotum tractari frangi fidelium dentibus atteri c.

left every one to his own understanding in such Interpretation without obliging him to submit his judgment to any others D. T. interrupted him and said he was drawing them away from their point And upon this occasion M. M. and D. T. talk'd a little while about a Guide in Controversie and D. T. did tell him in short That a Man after using all Christian means and the help of all Ministerial Guides possible must at last judge for himself and that this was not to run on his own head as also that our People could know the Voice of our Church it being in their own Language but not so readily the Voice of the Church of Rome it being in an unknown Tongue for the true Interpretation of which the unlearned depended upon the particular Priest that instructed them Then D. T. and Mr. P. came again to the Quotations and D. T. waved for a time that out of S. Ambrose in relation to which he us'd a word somewhat too sharp saying Mr. P. falsified instead of saying he had quoted a spurious Author So they came to S. Cyril's Catechism to which D. T. said He knew the place Mr. P. meant and that it was answered nigh twelve Years ago at the end of the Conference betwixt some Gentlemen of the Church of Rome and Dr. Stillingfleet and D. Burnet Mr. P. said That Conference as written by D. St. and D. B. was answered and that he would give D. T. the Answer Something was said to Mr. M. about that Conference which needs not as I imagine to be here repeated After this D. T. desir'd Mr. P. to read out of his printed Paper the place out of Justin Martyr which he did The words were these S. Justin Mart. in Apologiâ Antonio Pio Imperatori pro Christianis oblatâ Now this Food saith he amongst us is called the Eucharist which it is lawful for none to partake of but those who believe our Doctrine to be true c. For we do not receive this as common Bread or common Drink but as the Word of God Jesus Christ our Redeemer being made Man had both Flesh and Blood for the sake of our Salvation Just so are we taught that That Food over which Thanks are given by Prayers in his own Words and whereby our Blood and Flesh are by a change nourish'd is the Flesh and Blood of the Incarnate Jesus For the Apostles in the Commentaries written by them called the Gospels have recorded that Jesus so commanded them D. T. answered That those words prov'd the Bread to remain Bread because it nourish'd the Body and was call'd Bread after Consecration and that they did not at all establish the Roman Article of Transubstantiation Mr. P. answered He brought it for the proof of the Real Presence D. T. reply'd A Lutheran held that yet would not be of their Communion He then asked D. T. what his opinion was of the Real Presence He answered He would defend the true Sense of his Church even in those mistaken words in the Catechism The Body and Blood of Christ are verily and indeed taken and received by the Faithful in the Lord's Supper One in the Crowd said not very loud Hold him to that I think here was further talk about the Roman Corporeal Presence And Mr. D. A. C. ask'd Mr. P. what kind of Philosophy that was which maintain'd that Accidents subsisted without substances He said 't was true Philosophy D. T. ask'd whether it was true Philosophy to say there was whiteness without a white thing and breaking without a thing broken and the body of a Man without the dimensions and figure of such a body It was answer'd God could do this It was reply'd there was no need no promise supposing God could do it Mr. D. A. C. said then or afterwards in the next Room that God could not do what was a contradiction it being an imperfection Mr. P. continued the discourse and said we accused them of Idolatry whereas they worshipped not the Bread but Christ under it To which D. T. answered that he also ador'd Christ when he took the Sacrament but not that substance which they said was under the shew of Bread and that if it proved to be Bread it was a Creature and the worship of it would be the worship of a Creature adding that Costerus the Jesuit owned if it should prove to be Bread the worship of it would be worse Idolatry than that of the Laplanders who worshipped a red Cloth. Mr. P. reply'd Mr. Stillingfleet had cited that place D. T. rejoyn'd that it was rightly cited for he had read it in Costerus Mr. P. was silent Mr. P. here asserted that the Bread was annihilated and being shown by D. T. that his Opinion was contrary both to truth and his own Church he salv'd it by saying 't was annihilated so far as it was Bread. About this time as I think Mr. Meredith removed and went to a Window and Mr. D. A. C. had there some discourse with him And there was other occasional talk with a Roman by M. S. about the Cup in the Sacrament the Roman saying 't was taken away for fear of being spilt About this time also as I think Mr. P. was desir'd to stick to something particularly to the place of Scripture long ago cited by him If he will not hear the Church and he was asked by D. T. where the place was He could not tell At which some of the people upbraiding Mr. P. Mr. M. asked D. T. if he could tell Chapter and Verse throughout the Bible D. T. answered he would by no means pretend to it But if he cited a place as a proof of a Fundamental point he would first know where it was that by the Antecedents and Consequents he might be the better assured of the sense of it After which D. T. turned to the place in S. Matthew the 18th and read it out of the English Bible and ask'd if the Translation were faulty Mr. P. would not say it was Then D. T. explain'd the sense of the place as meant of Trespasses and not Articles of Faith and said to a very honest Gentleman whom he espy'd not far from him 't is as if it should be said to you by one to whom you owe any thing though pardon me the Obligation is on the other side Sir I come privately to you pray be just to me You say you will not Then he comes with a Friend and says Pray do me right and the matter shall go no farther you say you will not Then he puts you into the Ecclesiastical Court supposing it proper for their cognisance you will not stand to their sentence Then you are Excommunicated and treated as such a One. What a consequence from hence is this Therefore the Roman Church is to be heard as an infallible Guide in matters of Faith Mr. M. said being returned from the other part of the Room when there is a controversie about the meaning of