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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A05090	A plaine refutation of M. G. Giffardes reprochful booke, intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole ministrie, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these parish assemblies, called the Church of England. Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation ... by Henrie Barrovve. Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs ... by I. Gren. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauills about read prayer & deuised leitourgies.	Barrow, Henry, 1550?-1593.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593.	1591 (1591)	STC 1523; ESTC S104500	292,873	278

subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order cōmuniō of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can cōdemne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y ● sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length cōsider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressiō to censure the sinne and to excōmunicate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiā Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiā maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with thēselues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and hewē their antichristian hornes by statute heere in t●is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie frō pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not v●dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or ●o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiā to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping thēselues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warrāt he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into cōtempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle ●urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the Communiō of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensiō then being a publick ●emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communiō of the Church and frō al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with

thought that all the communicantes at the Lordes Table had bene ioyned commingled together into one spiritual body euen into CHRIST as manie grapes are there bruzed into one cup manie graynes into one loafe Furder we had thought y t no obstinate offender whose sinne is publicklie knowen might haue beene admitted to that holie Table without wilful sacriledge and high prophanation of those holie mysteries both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister Wee reade in the lawe plentifullie That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoeuer touched him whether person vessel holie or ciuile c and that such person on vessel c remayned vnholie therebie vntil they were clensed according to the lawe The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith that whatsoeuer holie thing bread wyne or oyle a polluted person toucheth yt is made therbie vncleane The Apostle also sheweth in expresse wordes That as a litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe so one open vnworthie receiued to the supper of the Lorde maketh all the communicantes guiltie and their reioycing or feast not good before the Lord likening the whole Church to the lumpe the wicked person and sinnes kept amongst them to the leauen their reioycing to the eating of the Paschal c Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsifie by likening this reioycing here spoken of to a glorying in the sinne of th' incestuous as though the Church of Corinth had euer bene so beastlie And by endevouring to separate the elements of the breade and wyne in this Sacrament from their mystical sense the communicantes that receiue the same together from their spirituall communion they haue one with an other the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to haue both generally and perticularly in administring and receiuing the Sacraments And hauing thus royled the pure fountaynes he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle by bringing in certaine instances where the wife seruant passenger vpon some especial dueties and necessities may be occasion eate ordinarie bread with th' excommunicate Whervpon he concludeth that the faithful also may vpon necessitie as if the Church wil not caste out the open wicked and impenitent communicate with them in the supper of the Lorde And if so be these faithful mourne and are grieued for this wilful sacriledge of the Minister and the rest of the Church then they touche not their sinne but the holie thinges of God and are cleare Ezechell 9. because the separation from the wicked cannot alwaies be in bodie as in the cases by him alleadged of eating common breade with them But let this cauiller knowe that there is no comparison much-lesse anie consequence betwixt the eating common breade and the eating of the Supper of the Lorde with the open wicked and impenitent There is no such spiritual mysterie communion or commixture in the first as in the second Common bread is not forbidden the wicked but these holie pledges vtterlie are they ought not to be caste to hogges and dogges Neither are we forbidden al ciuile conversation so absolutelie with them as we are all spirituall communion In the one vve see prouision and exception made for duetie and necessitie In the other there is no such duetie or necessitie neither anie such prouision and exception mentioned in the Scripture vntil these Priestes to defend their port-sale and open sacriledge deuised these shiftes The scripture vtterlie forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked impenitent from this holie banquet by more then the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sworde So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feaste as they are to be caste out to be deliuered vnto Sathan so far are they to bee kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament but such as outwardly stand in the faith and therby vnto the iudgment of the Church haue fellowship with CHRIST and his members The verie action or Symbole yt self sheweth this communion vvith CHRIST and one vvith an other 1. Corinth 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistrie can disioyne the mysterie or signification from the outward elements and action neither the communion from the participation in this action so far as vve may iudge As the vnworthie receiuers are guiltie of the bodie and bloode of the Lorde so the Church in admitting administring vnto and communicating vvith them is guiltie of most high sacriledge and prophanation of the holie thinges of God especially they doing it wilfullie and wittinglie Now then if they all communicate in this action and this action deliuered in this maner be sacriledge how should they not all be guiltie Can anie man here say that anie of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sinne but the holie thinges of God vvhen first in this action they are all spirituallie commingled and ioyned together then the verie action vvhich they all doe as they doe it is most highe sacriledge not a touching but an open if not a vvilfull prophanation of the holie thinges of God Can th' aucthoritie of the Church excuse them before God Or vvil it here excuse them to say they cannot doe vvith it because the power of the discipline is not in their handes We haue aboue shewed that euerie member hath interest in the power of the Church And that the power to receiue in and to caste out belongeth to the vvhole Church and not to the Presbiterie or anie perticular member of the Church onlie Neither yet these matters referred to the wil or choise of the Church but rules prescribed thē whom and vvhen to receiue whom and vvhen to caste out As vpon publick profession of faith and obedience with desire of ioyning the Church cannot refuse but must receiue so vpon publicke sinne and obstinacie ioyned to the same the Church must then caste out and cānot retaine without sinne Which sinne becommeth so much the more heynous whē they doe it wittinglie willinglie but most of al whē obstinacie is added whē the Church wil not be admonished neither amēd Though euerie private member cānot excommunicate or reforme the publicke actions of the Church which are donne contrarie to the worde yet euerie priuate member may ought to refraine such publick actions as they see to be contrary to the worde and to admonish the Church c. And in so doing they depart not from the Church neither withdrawe from the Communion so much as preserue the Church the communion Our fellowship must alwaies be in the faith out of the faith we maie haue no communion with man or Angel in knowen sinne They that depart from the faith depart from the Church and breake the cōmuniō We may not followe a multitude or the mighty in euil It behoueth euerie christian that receiueth to knowe what the action is he doeth to knowe what he receiueth and howe he receiueth to knowe by

in the faith notwithstanding that grieuous sinnes brake out amongst them so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST who if we confesse our sinnes is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all iniquitie But as we haue often said this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faultes were and are committed Vnto his second allegation that all shewed not repentance for the vncleannes fornication and vvantonnes vvhich they had cōmitted We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church That they did not more diligently search out the sinne and speedely caste out the sinners that remayned impenitent Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence and not of anie obstinacye they neither contemnded admonition neither spurned against their admoni●hers Yet euen this slacknes and negligence the Apostle thus sharplie seuerely reproueth threatning if they amend not to come with a rodde and with the power of CHRIST against them He neither iustified nor flattered them in their sinnes as this false Prophet doth who hath no better argumentes to pleade for o● iustifie this apostasie and obstinacie of the Church of England then the greatest sinnes and odious faultes of other Churches But to such a height measure is their wickednes encreased as all the sinnes of all Churches in all ages are too narrowe to couer the bedd of their fornicatiō Neither can those fearefull breaches lamentable ruines in the Churches of Asia heale the wounde of the Church of England If God so threatned or menaced those Churches to come and feight against them to remoue their candle-sticke c vvhat shalbe the iudgmentes of the Church of England what can she expect whose sinnes so far exceede which taketh boldnes to contynue in sinne and pleade for the same from these examples which the Lord hath lefte as monumentes of terror to all posterities Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies and those Churches which sometymes were rightly gathered and established vnto the faith and into the order of CHRIST and so all Mr. GIFFARDS labour and paynes herein is lost Neither will this conclusion followe That because yt ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated because the Church sometimes may fall into such sinnes of ignorance or of negligence Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers sacramentes and other spirituall exercises Might he not aswel conclude that because yt ceaseth not to be a Church herevpon therfore yt is no sinne But if yt be a sinne in the whole Church then is the whole Church guiltie of defiled with that sinne NOwe as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to drawe this conclusion so striueth he to proue this proposition That the admission of the open vvicked impenitent to the table of the Lorde doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithfull receiuers Herevnto he hath gathered a fewe stale reasons 1. As that the wickednes of the Minister doth not difile the holy thinges of God Iudas Ely his Sonnes the Scribes Pharasies were wicked mē yet were the thinges they administered holie 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sinnes of others but the holie thinges of God because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in bodie or bodily thinges alwaies but they which touche not their sinnes obey the commandement Come out from amonge them separate your selues touche none vncleane thing That the blame of receiuing such wicked resteth only vpon such as haue the power of the discipline in their handes and not vpon priuate members which mourne lament to see such fowle matters wincked at which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9. TO discuse these pointes in perticular would make this discourse ouer long breiflie therfore this we say To the first that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites whose wickednes is onlie knowē vnto the Lord and such wicked whose sinne is knowen vnto the Church The publicke ministrie of secret hypocrits that are rightly caled to a lawful office and execute their office without fault or blame is holie blessed and profitable to the whole Church which can but looke vpon and iudge the outwarde action and estate and not the hearte and conscience of anie yet this their ministerie is vnavayleable to themselues and maketh to their owne greater condemnation But where the Minister is detected of and remayneth obstinate in anie transgression his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord neither ought to be suffered or ioyned vnto of the Church The Lord willbe sanctified of all that come neere vnto him Vnder the lawe he required an holie ministerie to serue in the priestes office without outward mayne or bleamish lest he defiled the holie thinges of the Lorde The offerings of anie other were not acceptable to the Lorde It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord as if they cut off a dogges heade or offred swynes bloode They haue nought to doe to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reformed and caste his worde behinde them The Church ought not onlie to forbid such to administer but to cast them out of the fellowship which if the Church neglect and refuse to doe them are they guiltie of the open or wilful breach of Gods holie ordinances in suffring his holie name and ministerie to be prophaned yea in ioyning thervnto and reioycing therin The examples by him alleadged no waye help him Iudas whilest he remayned with our Sauiour was an hypocrite his sinnes vndiscoured yea vncommitted so longe in that estate his publicke ministerie was lawful holie and acceptable vnto others The ministerie of the Sonnes of Eli after their wickednes was publick wea abhominable vnto God to be detested of all the faithful yet was the sinne of the people verie great who vpon and for the sinnes of these wicked prestes abhorred the offringes of the Lorde which were euer to be esteemed most holie being lawfullie administred otherwise they are not the offrings of the Lord. The people then as nowe grewe into Atheisme and all impietie abhorring all Gods worship and refusing to be at anie chardge louing the creatures better then the Creator by seing the great insolency and inreverence of the prestes Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we haue alreadie said enoughe TO his other allegations that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lorde and other spiritual exercises because they touche not the sinne of the wicked but the holy thinges of God c Surelie this is verie odd diuinitie contrarie to al the groundes of scripture that we haue read of We had