Let this matter be reassumed on Saturday-morning and so taken into consideration to secure the Protestant Religion and not to let appear upon your Books any thing relating to Expedients or preventing a Popish Successour J. T. I was much surprized at the K.'s Speech considering your weighty Reasons for the Bill c. the last Parliament and that the Lords found out no Expedients for preservation of Religion and yet threw out the Bill But that the K. may see that what we do is out of real sense of the danger we are in from a popish Successor and not in contradiction to him and when nothing is found out to save us we may justifie our selves in what we do I am for adjourning the Debate Vote vide the Print Friday March 25. 1681. Thanks moved for free Choice of Members J. S. WHen there has been a general Corruption and all have not done their duty you should distinguish and give thanks to them that have and formerly you have done to Officers for doing their duty in suppression of Popery when through the corruption of the times some have not done their duty Nothing is more Parliamentary than to return Thanks to those who have freely and without expence chosen you Members and I desire that the Members so elected may be ordered to send their Thanks to those who chose them Vide the Vote in the Print The loss of the Bill for repeal of 35 Eliz moved Sir W J This matter deserves material consideration whether in respect of the loss of the Bill or the shaking of the very Constitution of Parliament The Bill that is lost is of great moment and of great service to the Country and perhaps to their lives in the time of a Popish Successor Those men that hindred the passing that Bill had a prospect of that and if it be sent up again we are like to meet with great opposition But be the Bill what it will the president is of the highest consequence The King has his Negative to all Bills but I never knew that the Clerk of the Parliament had a Negative if he laid it aside or not But consider if we send up many good Bills if this be not searched into we may be deprived of them No man that knows Law or History but can tell that to Bills Grateful and popular the K. gives his consent to them But if this way be found out that Bills should be thrown by it may be hereafter said they were forgot and laid by and so we shall never know whether the K. would pass them or no. if this be suffered 't is in vain to spend time here and 't will be a great matter to find time to redress it I move therefore that a Message be sent to the Lords for a Conference that some way may be found out to give us satisfaction in this great matter H. B. I do concur with the Gentleman spoke last that Parliaments are Prorogued and Dissolved by the King and now here is a new way found out to frustrate Bills The K. cannot take one part of a Bill and reject another but gives a direct answer to the whole But to avoid that this Bill was never presented to the K. a thing never done before I desire we may send to the Lords for a Conference to represent this Innovation and that a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons for the Managers W. G. I was a freind to this Bill and I agree in all things concerning the weight of it The laying this Bill aside is such a breach of the Constitution of Parliament that 't is in vain to pass any Bill if this miscarriage be not searched into By the constitution of Parliaments all Bills but money-Money-Bills after they are past both Houses are deposited in the Lords hands 't is below you to look after the Clerks for this Bill If the Lords give you no answer for the loss of this Bill that is satisfactory I would then send to them to know a Reason why the Bill was not tendred to His Majesty with the other Bills Sir R. H. I would have you search the Lords Journals and if you and no account of the Bill there then 't will be time for us to go to the Lords to require satisfaction Sir R T I have not much to offer you but I fully concur in the weight and consequence of this matter and you are to take all the care you can to secure it for the future Never any thing of this nature was done before but the Bill for observation of the Lords day in the late long Parliament 'T was left upon the Table at a conference and stolen away But 't is not proper I conceive to take notice of this in a Message to the Lords because the miscarriage of this Bill was in another Parliament The matter must go upon the desire of a Conference with the Lords concerning the Rights and Priviledges of both Houses of Parliament and then you may appoint a Committee to inform you of the progress of this matter E. V. I think the passing over the inquiry after the loss of the Bill of the Sabbath in the late long Parliament was the great occasion of the loss of this Consider how many interruptions Parliaments have had of late in the greatest business by Prorogations and Dissolutions and another way to gratifie your Enemies is to stifle your Laws when they have a mind the people should have no benefit of them though they have passed both Houses Therefore I Move c. ut ante Sir H. C. I differ only as to the words I agree to a Conference but no more to be said then to know what 's become of the Bill for the Lords are the Depositories of all Bills but money Without any other words I would send the Lords for a conference to know what 's become of the Bill I know but of three Negatives but by this proceeding here is a fourth Negative which may destroy the Government S. T. 'T is the best way in this matter to observe old methods and the best method to know the Lords minds is by Conference I remember in the late long Parliament the Lords sent to us for a Conference and at it told the Roof of our House was falling on our heads but they sent us not a message of the danger we were in by the falling of the Roof but desired a conference about a matter of great consequence Therefore I would now send to the Lords for a Conference of matters relating to the Nation R. H. I would say this We desire a Conference with the Lords concerning the Constitution of Parliaments in matters relating to passing of Bils Vide Printed vote Sir T. L. This is a thing of as high weight as we can confer upon Therefore I would not do less than in a thing of lesser moment Let a Committee meet and then agree of the subject matter till then you know not what
of the indictment I must confess that with the carriage of this I have enlarged my suspition for I cannot but suspect unusual ways The worst of Mankind with all his Villanies about him has been pardoned Is there in this any provocation given by us but something depends upon this Man as well as upon the Bill to day When you was told by Sec J. He would not carry the Impeachment c. and the House would make no breach by taking any severe course against him but past it over with temper sure we must not lay down all prosecution of the Plot and say that the Protestant Religion shall have no mercy Fitzharris may merit mercy by confession and if his breath be stopt by the Lords I am sorry that people will say if it were not for the Lords Fitzharris might have discovered all the Conspiracy and the Protestant Religion might have been saved I Move therefore that in your Vote you will not only say That denying this Impeachment c. tends to the subverting the Constitution of Parliament but of the Protestant Religion also I hope we shall proceed in this with the same calmnesse of mind that every man does wish who would not lose his Religion Serg. M. A Plot we all know has been on foot in England and I am sure in Ireland too and what Arts and Crafts have been used to hide the Plot It began with Murder and Perjury and false Subornation this of Fitzharis is a second part of that We have sent up an Impeachment against Fizharris and the Lords deny to receive it In effect they make us no Parliament if we are the prosecutors and they will not heare our Accusation t is strange when their own Lives as well as ours are concerned in the Plot. The same day we Impeach Fitzharris the Lords Vote we shall not prosecute him Now when all is at stake we must not prosecute if this be so Holland and Flanders must submit to the French and they run over all This is a strange Breach of priviledge and tends to the Danger of the King's Person and Destruction of the Protestant Religion Sir T. P. This of Fitzharris is a considerable Confirmation of the Former Plot I call it the Old Plot but 't is still new upon us This is a confirmation of the designe to Murder the King and the Duke consenting to destroy his own Brother and our King I have often heard it wisper'd that this Plot was Madames Designe at Dover 'T is plain that Justice Godfrey was Murdered and that the Army at Black heath was to destroy the Protestants in Holland and to awe the City of London When Fitzharris was in an Inclination to discover what he knew and two or three Honourable Members went to Examine him this man was fetch'd the next day to Whitehal and sent to the Tower and so we were deprived of all farther hopes of discovery We have received the Information he gave and now that the man may be in no capacity to discover farther they stop his mouth I move therefore that you will declare That if any Judge Justice or Jury proceed upon him and be found Guilty that you will declare them Guilty of his murder and betrayers of the rights of the Commons of England Vid. the Printed Vote Sir W. J. Now the House has done as much as is fit for the Lords but we do not know how Inferiour Courts will proceed therefore I 'll propose a Vote That if any Inferiour Court shall proceed c. which past Vid. the Print I would not give occasion to people to say we do things in an extraordinary manner 'T is late and pray let 's Adjourn Munday March 28. 1681. The Bill for Excluding the Duke c. read Sec. J. NO Bill was ever offred in Parliament of the like nature so much against the Justice of the Nation it condemns a Man never heard and then 't is a Law made ex post facto Very extraordinary against the Fundamental Justice of the Nation and not only that but against the wisdom of the Nation and will introduce a change of the Government If the Duke will try to cut this Law with his Sword if he overcome he will have the same power to set aside all Laws both for Religion and Property the power will be in the hands of the Conqueror and certainly he will change the Government 'T is against the Religion of the Nation which teaches to pay Obedience to our Governours whether good or bad never so faulty or criminal In primitive Christianity Obedience was paid to Heathen Princes in licitis honestis and we are not to do evil that good may come of it nor on the prospect of any good I shall say one word more 't is against the Oaths of the Nation of Allegiance and Supremacy The Duke is the Kings lawful Heir if he have no Son and in the Eye of the Law I am sworn to him and every Oath is in the sense of the Law-giver If this Disinherison pass now into a new Law who dispenses me from that Oath to the King possibly I am too tedious and not willingly heard If the Bill be against the Religion of the Nation being obliged by Oaths against the Government and the wisdom of the Nation I hope you will throw it out T. B. Sec. J. has moved to throw out the Bill and desired to be heard patiently I find no body second him pray let him go on and second himself Ordered a second Reading Sir W. J. Because there has been much discourse in the Town of the Votes that past on Saturday upon the Lords Spiritual and Temporal rejecting the Impeachment c. though I believe what is done will be made good yet I would for the present give the Nation all the satisfaction we can that we are in the right Amongst our misfortunes in being called to this place we are far remote from Records and Books but yet I think it may be easy to prepare our selves to maintain what we have done According to the little light I have I find it the undoubted right of the Commons not only to bring Impeachments against Lords but against Commons too Magna Charta does not only say Per judicium parium c. but per Legem Terrae c. Tryal by Parliament is Lex Terrae I have heard of a Record 4. E. 3. where when the E. of March The Black Rod came to command their Attendance in the House of Lords whither they immediately went and the Lord Chancellour by Command of the King Dissolved the Parliament FINIS
Imployment he is put upon is for the Kings service and he tells you it reflects upon the King All is reversed if what the Commons do must be as if it reflects upon the King I have all imaginable respect to the King but Sir we are in a Ship and we have to do with the Master and he with us If this Gentleman would make any sort of excuse I would willingly accept it but he has not yet taken off his Crime but rather aggravated it If he have nothing farther to say he must withdraw and then you 'l have a Motion made for the Honor of the House Sir T. M. I know no other difference in any person here if the Secretary said I thought it reflected on the King a man may be mistaken in his thoughts and in case it be so he would suffer any thing under that reflection He said it was his thoughts that the carrying the Message was a reflection upon the King and in that case would suffer any thing rather than a reflection upon the King and his Character Sir J. E. 'T is an ill thing to stumble at the entrance I hope the Secretary intended no dis-service to the House but on a mistake I did apprehend it and some others that it was in jest But in jest or earnest one ought to obey the Commands of the House but every man cannot subdue his own Heart But I would know upon farther consideration whether the Secretary will undertake this service or no. I am the worst Advocate in the world for any obstinate person But I humbly offer whether the Gentleman will serve you or no before he withdraw Ern. removed from his place and whispered with the Secretary Sec. J. Since the House is so favourable as to hear me I shall only say that I did aprehend sending me with the Message to the Lords was a reflection upon the King if I did apprehend it a reflection upon my Master I could not but resent it I am heartily sorry I have incurred the displeasure of the House and I hope they will pardon the freedom of the expression I apprehended it a reflection upon the King and no other consideration whatsoever induced me to say the words M. F. I Look upon this has come from the Secretary as so great a Reflection upon the House that he ought to come to the Bar upon his knees and ask pardon of the House H. B. We are all Subject to Infermities seeing that the thing is so the Secretary could not apprehend any reflection on the King by sending him with the Message but he might apprehend it on himself it was a little smilingly moved but since he has explained himself I would have this c. past by as I would on the like occasion desire for my self Ld. C. The Gentlemans fault is a great one but that after he has begg'd the pardon of the House I am willing to pass it over Though it be a great fault yet 't is too little to give occasion of a Breach at this time Sec J. I am ready to obey the Order of the House and I am sorry my words gave offence So he went on the Message Col. B. We ought all to give God thanks for this Discovery of Fitzharris next to the first Discovery of the Plot. It is a great service to the Nation and 't is not the first that Sir William Waller has don If ever the thanks of the House was deserved it is for this Discovery and I Move Sir William Waller may have the thanks of the House Ordered vide the Print SATURDAY March 26. 1681. Order of the day vide Print Sir R. C. I Confess I have been full of Expectation of some Expedient to secure the Life of the King and the Protestant Religion without the Bill for Excluding the Duke c. My expectation is from those who opposed the Expedient of the Bill for I can call it no otherwise I have in my weak judgment weighed all Expedients I have heard of and they seem all to me to be a breach of the Constitution of the Government and to throw us into disorder and confusion Ihave heard that it has been an antient usuage that Members have consulted their Cities Burroughs and Counties in any thing of weight as well as giving Money before they resolved it The practice was good and I wish it were continued and we can discharge our trust no beetter than in observing the direction of those who sent us hither I Received an Address from the City of London having the Honour to be one of their Representatives in the matter of this Bill of Excluding the Duke c. I hearttily wish some Expedient may be sound out to save our Religion without it But I must pursue my trust therefore I move a Bill may be brought to Exclude all Popish Successours and in particular James Duke of York Lord R. I have the same obligation upon me as the worthy person who spoke last from the Country I have the Honour to serve for I have been of opinion that nothing but this Bill can secure us from Popery In the long Parliament 't was said that the Duke was a Papist and the danger of his power will be more now and every day informs us of the sad consequences of it I should be glad of any thing but this Bill could secure us I know nothing else can therefore Humbly move for it c. R. M. The security of the Protestant Religion and the preservation of the Kings Person is of so great weight that we should not have staid to this day to Exclude the Duke but I am sorry to hear that Language that because the King has said in his Speech he will stick to his former resolution in not altering the Succession c. and proposed a kind of Expedient c. but in this we are not used as an English Parliament but a French to be told what we are to do and what not 't is the greatest Arbitrary power in England to cow a Parliament which may be was in design to bring us hither but be we called to York or any part of England I believe we shall be the same men we are here and were at Westminster My Lord Danby Dissolved the long Parliament and said he had spoiled the old Rooks and had took away their false Dice and then started in the new Ministers and they shuffle and cut again and Dissolve Parliaments till they can get one for their turn I have heard much weight laid upon Disinheriting the Duke sure no Father will scruple to Disinherit a Son or a Brother nor turn away Servants that would ruine him If Bishops and Councellors would speak plain they cannot answer deferring our security so long But neither the Ministers of the Gospel have endeavoured the preservation of our Religion nor the Ministers of State the Government both acting against Religion and Safety of the Kings Person And I have no
distinction When the Lady comes to be Regent not only Nature but Conscience will put her upon giving Caesar his due and perhaps that Text some of our Divines will preach upon They 'l say that the Parliament by what they have done acknowledg a good Title in the Duke But if he be King as the Parliament allows him to be in Name he has right of Descent and so will be restored to all the Rights of King An Argument upon Queen Marie like this restored the first Fruits and Tenths Another thing perhaps may come from them that proposed this Expedient I do not believe it came from that Gent. c. if you had past the other Bill great many would not submit to it but if you pass this if the Duke have right to be King and be kept from the Administration of it I doubt whether I shall sight against him And the Papists will say you have got a Law to seperate that which is inseperable I would if I were as the Duke have this Bill to perplex my opposers rather than a clear one He has told you of an Army to maintain the Bill c. which will not soon be laid down But why an Army If there must be an Army for your Bill there will be four Armies requisite to maintain the Expedient A protector has been proposed not like that of E. 6. who was little more than the now Lord President of the Councel But certainly they who proposed the Expedient would have by it the same power of letting in the Duke as of keeping him out Therefore I move to lay aside this consideration and take up the Bill as has been moved for L. G. I think it is fit we should present Reasons to the King for passing this Bill of Excluding the Duke c. I do think that the Administration of the Government has been in such hands since the King come in that though the Ministers have been changed yet the same principles remain to to this day though some have been removed The breaking of the Tripple League the taking of the Dutch Smyrna-Fleet The King of France makes War for his glory and we for nothing but to get Riches to make the King Absolute Such a violation was done upon the Rights of the people as has been done He was called down to Order E. V. A Question so extreamly well spoken unto to be interrupted with any angry Question is not very decent at this time what is spoken of is matter to be enquired into another time though the Gentleman does it with a worthy intent If any Gentleman have any thing else to propose pray hear him L. G. Goes on I intended to Move you for Reasons to induce the King to pass this Bill The strange and dishonourable Retrenchments made in the Kings Family He is surrounded by the Dukes Creares 'T is not safe for the King to part with any one Minister unless he part with all and when these men have got a Bank of money for a Popish Successor then will be the time to take away the King Sir F. W. This we are upon is a matter of great weight and difficulty Let any man that can maintain this Expedient or give you a new one Sir T. M. I have heard with patience this Expedient which has been well offered and I believe mistaken by the Gentleman who answered it I must say this your Question and your business is Religion and I have given as good proof of my zeal for the Protestant Religion this twenty years as any man has and I have been for this Bill of Excluding the Duke c. I am of opinion something must be done to secure Religion For the point of Law mentioned if the Law be such That Dominion must run with the Name of King that single Reason is to carry the Debate But if I answer not that I am at an end But sure those words that can disinherit a King may make this Expedient Law I would not rise now if I thought the Bill to Exclude the Duke c. could pass my grounds are but conjectures The last Parliament I did think this Bill would pass with greasing the wheels The condition of England is thus we do need one another both King and People and we have need to make use of a Parliament to assist one another to relieve us in the difficulties we are in If the Duke should be King he will need a Parliament and so will the people In order to this if another Expedient can be found out as like this though not the same which no objection of Law could destroy he would do the King and Kingdom great service and advantage who would produce it In this necessity we are like two great Armies encamped upon two Hills and neither dare remove not for want of Valour but from their Reason he that has the last loaf stays longest necessity compels the other to decamp At last it must be one side or other or else England will have the worst of it But if none will venture to clear the matter in point of Law I am answered If any could alter that Bill that it should not be the same we have had twice before I should like it I like this Expedient offered you for 't is a Bill of Exclusion and so strong a one that the Duke may choose the first rather I am for the nail that will drive to do our business If Gentlemen have other thoughts pray so contrive it that we have one Bill or t'other W. H. All the Expedients I have heard yet are like a Coucomber when you have well drest it throw it away These Gentlemen tell you they will bring in a Bill of Excluding the Duke from the Regency c. This proposition is either honest or not if it be honest and without design then all the dispute betwixt the King and Us will be whether the Duke shall have a Title to the Crown But I hope the King will rather gratify the Nation than the Duke If this be not honest and people about the King circumvent him they will find means from day to day to divert him Why was England so fond of Calis but to have some footstep into France And so this Bill let the Bill pass and all those Gentlemen who have dependency upon the Duke if he come to the Crown will change matters Sir F. W. A worthy Member not being satisfied with Argument of Law against the Expedient that calls me up as in my profession The Question about this Bill of Exclusion that 't is lawfall in Conscience no man will oppose the great opposers of it in the Lords House agreed it lawfull when they threw it out Not Jure Divino unlawfull concurrentibus iis qui concurrere debent Some Gentlemen told you their Country gave them instructions to press this Bill of Exclusion c. Sir T. Lit. said it was dangerous to take Instructions from the Country But I say
't is much more to take it from Court Parliaments formerly upon any extraordinary matter staid and sent their Members to consult with those who sent them I am not subjugated when I am here to what the Country does propose I am as much against a Republick as he that fears it but I am a Protestant I say I know Sir T. Litt. to be of that Experience and Reason that if he go away satisfied in this matter he will do all the good he can in the post he is in But to keep close to this question It being allowed by Law That an Exclusion of the D. from the Crown may be the next thing is to consider the Expedient of the Regency proposed The same Authority that can make a Descent of the Crown may mod fie it He argued to shew that the Regency would make the Duke insignificant in the Administration of the Government Now the Question is which is the most parcticable We Lawyers are aptest to go on the strongest side and to call every thing Prerogative I 'l put you a case in King James's time the Sheriff of there was an exceptation in his Commission that he should not keep the County Court of but should have all other Exercises of his Office But the Judges resolved he was Sheriff to all intents and purposes and that he could not be hindred keeping the County-Court An Act of Parliament against common sence is void To make a man King and not suffer him to exercise Kingly power is a contradiction Some clauses formerly in Acts of Parliament were flattering clauses to satisfie the people and not let them have the thing Should this of the Expedient be an Act 't is nonsense and may be said hereafter the House of Commons were outwitted I owe the Duke obedience if he be King but if he be King and have no power to govern he is the King and no King I have urged this to shew that this is no Expedient it blears only peoples Eyes and is no solid security To say the Duke values his Estate which he may forfeit c. He loves a Crown too very well therefore you are not to arm your self in point of Consequence but in point of Reason The last Parliament I did see by the management of the Papists and the Ministers that without this Bill of Exclusion our ruine is irresistable If the Duke come to the Crown He brings with his Religion Merum Imperium and that made me fond of the Bill but if by Law the Duke never was King there is no case of Conscience lyes upon us in his Exclusion I will only make this observation of the Kings Speech in relation to this Question And if it be practicable the ridding of our selves quite of that Party c. and not to lay so much weight upon one Expedient as to determine all others are ineffectual vide Speech The two main points it seems the King doubts himself and all this delivered by the King in great wisdom is clipt off to this Expedient of the Regency You see now we come to Expedients the Ministers have had two Parliaments to consider it and now we are come to this Expedient of the Regency I find no security in Law by this Expedient you take away nothing by this Expedient and therefore I hope the Bill of Exclusion will pass I hope that reason and not great Offices will take men off from their Nemine contradicente I speak this as if I were a dying man and Humbly Move for the Bill c. H. B. I have it in command from my Country That they apprehend no Expedient to secure us from Popery but that the Remedy will be worse than the Disease unless this Bill I have heard as yet no Reason given against it But there is an aliquid latet If the D. be not set aside I am sure the Government will be and therefore I am for the Bill of Exclusion c. Sir T. M. I know not how far Sir Fr. W. Argument may be prest what Bill soever we may have Pray let us have the Law on our sides that if the King should dye we may know whether we are to go I think the K. s ' Speech is penned as it ought to be penned and should a King speak positively to what Laws He would have we are an Irish Parliament and not an English but the Kings words are tender words The thing lies fairly before you if any Expedient can be thought of not to destroy the Monarchy and if the next presented be not the best not to refuse the next E. V. You have had an Expedient offerd you of a Regency c. instead of the Bill of Exclusion c. Pray consider what this Regency is 'T is the whole Office of a King to appoint Judges call Parliaments c. This Power they would take away from the Duke But if by Law they will reserve the name of King to the Duke 't is to bring a War upon us and to bring the Duke in by force This Regency must he supported by War as well as the Bill of Exclusion By the 13 Eliz. the Crown is not alienable by the King but may be alienated by King Lords and Commons And when that Statute was made no Successour was named to keep King James in awe which I conceive was the Reason why none was named in the last Bill of Exclusion Though we have bin frighted out from that Bill by Prorogations and Dissolutions yet 't will not frighten them whose Reasons go along with it And I am for that Bill because all men are for it and have sent up the same Parliament again that past it But if you lead people into uncertainties in the Government as this project of Regency undoubtedly will do the Court and the Country will be of a mind to lay aside Parliaments because they are useless Sir H. C. Peoples eyes are now enlightned and all the world over they are an informed people The Papists care not who is King if he be a Papist And so he proceeded much to the same purpose in several Speeches in the last Parliament Col. G. L. I would not have spoke so much out of duty to my Master but for the duty I owe to my Country I owe a new Obligation to the King for I am the D's Servant from the King My Father was a Servant to the late King and this and I have my protection under him I was bred in England and for his Service at Sea I know my own weakness not being bred to the Law but by enquiry I find that the Doctrine of disposing a Kingdom from the Right Heir is Damnable and 't is the Doctrine of the Church of Rome I have heard that in the 24 E. 3 the King demanded Advice of the Parliament in matters relating to the Crown The Answer was by the whole Parliament They could not advise in any thing relating to the Crown nor of disinheriting
Gentlemen choose either to be Papists or burnt or hang'd I have no disrespect to the Duke if this Proposal could keep out Popery But if I am to leap over a River I had rather have no Staff than a broken one This can be no Security If you leave it in the power of the Councel to make War and Peace and dispose of Money Pray then where is the Government Either they will be faithful and keep the Law of Regency or the King must be King but in the name and they the Soul of the Government I have heard the Expedients with patience and have not been over-hasty to put the Question But I see no Remedy to save Religion unless excluding the Duke Therefore pray put the Question for the Bill c. The Question was stated R. H. You have been moved to adde to the Duke's Exclusion all other Popish Successours This is a Bill on purpose to Exclude the Duke only You may Exclude all other Papists from Succeding c. in another Bill by it self But I observe that the way to loose a Bill is to flog it H C. I shall only observe that by the last Bill of Exclusion if the Duke should turn Protestant He will be Excluded and if the Princess of Orange turn Papist she is not Excluded Vid. the Vote for the Bill in Print In the AFTERNOON An Account given of the Lords throwing out the IMPEACHMENT of Fitzharris Sir T. L. I See by the Lords refusing this Impeachment no farther use of a Parliament They will be a Court or not a Court to serve a present purpose Sir W. J. In a matter so plain and which concerns the very being of Parliaments I am unwilling to make unnecessary doubts If an Action be brought in the Lower Courts it does not hinder the Action being brought in Westminster-hall if no Judgment upon it and it holds the like in this case Indictments were brought against the Lords in the Tower at Common Law and yet was no Impediment to their Impeachment in the Lords House but here is no Indictment or prosecution brought against Fitzharris We have an Instance fresh in Memory The Lord Cheif-Justice Scroggs a Commoner and not Indicted at Common-Law yet the Lords without any scruple accepted his Impeachment so that we need not spend our time to search Presidents Perhaps the Lords Journals were not made up but our Members have taken Notes out of the Minut-Book by them we find the Lords have determined a great point The Lords Spiritual as well as the Lords Temporal have Voted it which we own not in this Judicature nor I hope never shall and we are denied Justice by the Lords Spiritual who have no Right to Vote This is doing a double act of Injustice And since the Lords have taken upon them to throw out the Impeachment of Fitzharris let us Vote That the Commons have a Right to Impeach in Capital Cases and that the Lords have denied us Justice in refusing the Impeachment And after you have asserted your Priviledges then draw up Reasons for maintaining them And if the Dissolution of the Parliament follows it 's the fault of those Men who will not hear our Reasons and in a Parliamentary way at a Conference shew how unwarrantable the Lords Actions have been in their way of proceeding Sir F. W. If this Impeachment of Fitzharris was of so ordinary a nature as a Monopoly c. I should not press upon this matter But this is not an ordinary Accusation but that which relates to our Religion and Property and how the Bishops come to stifle this let God and the world judge I would know if a man be Impeached by the Commons and no Indictment against him only the Atturney-General told the Lords that the King gave Directions he should be prosecuted and no Record against him whether this is a ground to deny our Impeachment If the Lords will Vote that the Commons shall not Impeach him they may as well Vote they shall not be Prosecutors But yet we will be so This is a New Plot against the Protestants of which Fitzharris is accused and we must not Impeach him in this the Lords fairly say We must not hear it If this be the Case I desire you'ill come to some Vote You are willing to discover the Plot if you could If the Attourny-General had prepared a Prosecution in an Inferior Court and they had proceeded to Judgment then it is pleaded in Bar to the Judgment of a Superior Court If our Time be short as I believe it is pray do not delay to come to some Resolution if the House be satisfied in it pray make a Vote to assert your Right A little while ago when the Duke was presented for a Papist the Grand Jury you know was dismiss'd by Chief-Justice c. This seems as if the Lords were bound in Honour to justifie the Judges Proceedings by their own 'T is a reflection of weakness in a man who doubts in a plain matter and if no man doubts our Right pray Vote it so Sir R. H. I am glad we are off from the great thing yesterday I cannot believe but that the Lords have Judgment enough to have cause for what they do and in this cause of Fitzharris Impeachment In this matter Presidents you need not search This of Fitzharris seemeth to me to be a more dangerous breath than usual a breath fit to be stifled there is something in this more than ordinary If there be so sacred a respect to the comman Tryalls of England in Inferiour Courts 't is strange that the House of Commons should be below a common Jury If in the cases of Skinner and the fact done beyond the Sea the Lords contended with the Commons about Judging it though it was an original cause this was no great value of the Law of England But it seems they value Fitzharris to keep him from us When I have heard in all the Speeches to day that the Duke does not go single and have heard so excellent discourses to day of that matter I am loath to mingle my weakness But such Councel as this the King hereafter will have no cause to thank them for involving him in the fatality of those Councels as if they would make the Libel of Fitzharris the Copy of their Councels Dangerfield was reputed a most infamous person yet if he would speak what he knew nothing of mercy was to big for him But Fitzharris is a man of no infamy and yet they hurry him away to the Tower when he began to confess in Newgat Are you so lost that you have no mercy left for the Protestant Religion This is strange if the terror of his condition make him confess the whole Plot he be taken out of our hands We hear of other things as that the French Ambassador had a hand in this Plot which a Jury will not inquire into their business is only whether Fitzharris be guilty or not guilty