in the House of Câ—â—mons and sent up to the Lords in the Winter Sessions of Parliament Anno 1692. as it was tâ—â—â— in short hand My Lords THis Debate is of so very great consequence that I resolved to be silent and rather tâ—â— advised by the ability of others then to show my own want of it Besides it is of soâ—â— a Nature that I who speak always unpremeditately apprehend extreamly saying any thâ—â— which may be thought the lest reflecting tho even that ought not to restrain a man here frâ—â— doing ones duty to the publick in a Business where it seems to be so highly concerned I have always heard I have always read that Foreign Nations and all this part of the wâ—â—â— have admired and envied the Constitution of this Government For not to speak of the Kâ—â—â— Power here is a House of Lords to advise him on all important Occasions about Peace or Wâ—â—â— about all things that may concern the Nation the care of which is very much intrusted to 〈◊〉 Lordships But yet because your Lordships cannot be so conversant with the generality o◠〈◊〉 People nor so constantly in the Country as is necessary for that purpose here is a Hous◠〈◊〉 Commons also chosen by the very people themselves newly come from among them or shâ—â—â— be so to represent all their Grievances to express the true mind of the Nation and to disâ—â—â— of their Money at least so far as to begin all Bills of that nature if I am not mistaken the 〈◊〉 writ for Election sent down to the Sheriffs does impower them to chuse what their Representaâ—â—â— Now my Lords I beseech you to consider the meaning of that word Representative Is i◠〈◊〉 do any thing contrary to their mind it would be absurd to suppose it and yet how can 〈◊〉 â—â—herwise if they after being chosen change their dependency ingage themselves in Employments plainly inconsistent with that great trust reposed in them and that I will take the liberty â—o demonstrate to your Lordships they now do at least according to my humble opinion I will instance first in the least and lowest incapacity they must be under who so takes imployments Your Lordships all know but too well what a general carelessness there appears every day more and more in the publick Business if so how is it likely that men should be as diligent in their Duty in Parliament as that Business requires where imployments and a great deal of other business shall take up both their minds and their time But then in some cases 't is worse as in Commands of the Army and other Imployments of that kind when they must have a divided Duty for it does admirably become an Officer to â—it Voting away Money in a House of Commons while his Soldiers are perhaps taking it away at their Quarters for want of his presence to restrain them and of better Discipline among them Nay perhaps his Troop or Regiment may be in some Action abroad and he must either have the shame of being absent from them at such a time or from that House where he is intrusted with our Liberties To this I have heard but one Objection by a noble Lord that if this Act should pass the King â—s not allowed to make a Captain a Collonel without disabling him to sit in Parliament Truly if a Captain has only deserved to be advanced for exposing himself in Parliament 〈◊〉 think the Nation would have no great loss in the Kings letting alone such a Preferment But my Lords there is another sort of incapacity yet worse then this I mean that of Parliament Mens having such Places in the Exchequer as the very profit of them depends on the Money given to the King in P rliament Would any of your Lordships send and intrust a Man to make a Bargain for you whose very interest shall be to maâ—e you give as much as he can possibly It puts me in mind of a Farce where an Actor holds a Dialogue with himself speaking first in one Tone and then answering himself in another Really my Lords this is no Farce for t is no laughing matter to undoe a Nation but t is altogether as unnatural for a Member of Parliament to ask first in the Kings name for such a sort of supply give an Account from him of how much is needful towards the paying such an Army or such a Fleet and then immediatly give by his ready Vote what he had before asked by his Masters order Besides my Lords there is such a necessity now for long sitting of Parliaments and the very Priviledges belonging to Members are of so great extent that it would be a little hard and unequal to other Gentlemen they should have all the places also All the Objections that have been made may be reduced to these First t is told us that t is a disrespect to the King that his Servants or Officers should be excluded To this I desire it may be considered that t is in this case as when a Tenant sends up any body to treat for him would any of your Lordships think it a disrespect nay would the King himself think it any if the Tenant would not wholly refer himself to one of your own Servants 〈◊〉 to the Kings Commissioners in the case of the Crown And if he chuses rather some plain 〈◊〉 â—est Friend of his own to supply his absence here will any man blame such a Proceeding or â—â—â—â—k it unmannerly Besides your Lordships know this Act admits them to be chosen notwithstanding their imployments provided the Electors know it first and are not deceived in their choice All we would prevent is that a good rich Corporation should not chuse to Intrust with all their Libertys a plain honest Country Neighbour and find him within six Months changed into 〈◊〉 prefer'd cunning Courtier who shall tyd them to their Choâ—ce tho he is no more the same man than if he were turned Papist which by the Law as it stands already puts an incapacity upon him Another Objection is that this Act may by its Consequence prolong this Parliament which they allow would be a very great Grievance and yet suppose the King capable of putting it upon us which I have too much Respect for him to admit of tho I am glad howeveâ— that t is objected by Privy Counsellers in favour who consequently I hope will never advise 〈◊〉 thing which they now exclaim against as so great a Grievance But pray my Lords what should tempt the King to so ill a policy Can he fear a freedom of Choice in a people to whose good will he owes all his Power which these Lords suppose he may use to their Prejudice And therefore give me leave to say as I must not suspect him of so ill a Design as the Perpetuating this Parliament so he cannot he ought not to suspect a Nation so intirely I was going tâ— say so fondly Devoted to him My Lords O Man
Majesties Service and we conceive it the easiest properest and fairest way of Communication between the two Houses to have so great and important Business transacted and prepared in a Committe so chosen 3dly Because it cannot be expected that so many Members of the House 〈◊〉 from whom we shall need Information can in any other manner be here present so often 〈◊〉 with the leave of their House as will be necessary for a sufficient Enquiry into the severâ—â—â—â—â—â—s now under Consideration 4thly Because if the House of Commons intend also to give Advice to his Majesty t is very probable that both Houses of Parliament may receive such Information severally as will be thought fit to be communicated as soon as possible and we conceive no way of doing that can beâ—â— proper or speedy as in a Committe of both Houses 5thly Because in a time of such iminent Danger to the â—ation by reason so many Miscarriages as are supposed generally to have been committed the closest and strictest Union of 〈◊〉 Houses is absolutely necessary to redeem us from all that Ruine which we have too mâ—â—â— cause to fear is coming upon us Decemb. 8th The Earle of Nottingham brought his own Book of Entries with Mr. Russels Leâ—ers and Copies of his own to Mr. Russel of all which a List was taken and all of them reâ—erred to a Committe 9th Another Committe appointed to examine what way might be found for the House to â—peak with a Member of the House of Commons or to have him before a Committe 10th Sir John Ashby was examined at the Barr then it was reported from the Committe that they had found an Expedient which was Debated and at last resolved on And another Committe ordered to prepare something to be delivered at a Conference together with all the Letters c. 19th The Lord President ordered to deliver the Papers c. And to say as followeth We by Command of the House of Commons are often mentioned in the said Papers from whom possibly you may be more particularly informed of the Matters contained in them 21st The House of Commons at another Conference told the House of Lords that they had Read and well considered those Papers which they had sent them and finding Mr. Russel a Member of their House often mentioned in them the Commons unanimously came to this Resolution That Admiral Russel in his Command of the Fleet during the last Summers Expediton has behaved himself with Fidelity and Conduct 22. A Committe to inspect the Books in relation to a true Conference and particularly whether there have been any free Conferences desired with the Commons when the Houses diâ— not disagree â—â—th Reported from that Committe that they had found some Presidents for it as followeth Aug. 9th 1660. The Commons desired a Conference about a Business of great Importance without any Disagreement Aug. 13. 1660. The Lords desired a Conference about the same Business without any Disagreement Sept. 1. 1660 A Free Conference was desired by the Commons upon the same Subject still without any Disagreement July 29 1660. A free Conference was desired by the Lords about the same Bill without Disagreement ' and another Conference was desired by the Commons the same day After a long Debate another Committe was appointed to inspect Presidents whether the Resolution of the House of Commons delivered at the last Conference be according to the usual Proceedings of Parliament and to consider of Heads to be delivered at a free Conference on than subject 31. The Question was put whether the Bill for impartial Proceeding in Parliament should 〈◊〉 â—â—â—mitted and it was carried in the Affirmative by 15 Votes Then it was put whether they should now proceed upon it and it was carried in the Negative July 1st A Free Conference desired by the Lords who told the Commons that their Hose â—â—â—â—unicating to the House of Lords at a Conferance a Vote of theirs upon Matter of Fact only without giving any Reasons for it is not according to the usual Proceedings in Parliaâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 â—â—â—sure it seems they took putiently and without making the least reply 〈…〉 of those Lords who Signed the several Protestations with Reasons in this Sessions of 〈…〉 which Names under their own Hands together with the Reasons in the Publick 〈◊〉 of that House Mulgrave Rivers Warrington Denbeigh Thanet Alisbury c. to the number of 40. An Account relating to some of the Affairs in Ireland given by Mr. Sloane To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled IN â—bedience to your Lordships Commands I humbly give this Account of some things I have seen and Observed or credibly heard of the Affairs of that Uunfortunate Kingdom out of which by your Lordships direction I shall omit many other things which I have only by Informations Tho' I believe the same may be well proved concerning the State and Affairs of that Kingdom And if this shall be of any publick service either to this or that Kingdom I shall reckon it more then a reward sufficient to repair any Injury can be done me on this account It was in August last I went into Ireland partly on own private Business and partly to settle some Affairs relating to my Lord Lisburn who had left me one of his Executors and Trusteeâ— of his Estate and being there was chosen a Member of the House of Commons which was the chief occasion of my seeing or observing what I did on this unfortunate Subject 1. One of the great Grievances and that which is most immediatly felt by the subjects there I take to be that the Army there have not been better pay'd and that by reason thereof since the War ended they have been contrary to known Laws as they said for want of Pay and subsistance in many places of that Kingdom necessitated often to take free Quarter not only for Meat and Drink and Lodging but to supply themselves with Cloaths and other necessarys have Taxed exacted and received from the Country great Sums of Money and where the same was not paid in many places cistrained for the same Of which I heard manâ— Complaints and that few or none could ever get any Redress And on that account I believe there is due to the Country above 200000 l. which hath tended to the ruine of many Persons and Families there And if this were an end of it that which is past might be the easter forgot But as I am credibi informed by the late Accounts from thence Free Quarters and taxing the Subject is in divers places continued to this time or some few Weeks since And if not prevented for the future by the better Pay and Order of the Army may tend to the great impoverishment and destruction of that Kingdom Yet I am not surprized it should be so for it was publickly told us in the House of Commons as I remember by Mr. Pâ—ultney and Mr. Davids concerned in or about the Government there
that uâ—â—â—ess we would poss the Money Bills as brought from the Council Board the Army woule take Fice Quarter or to that effect 〈◊〉 as appears to me there is the less Necessity for it now were the publick Money rightly applyed for that as Mr. Polutney brought the Papers from the Lord Laeutenant to the House of Commons considering the List of the Civil and Military Establishment of Ireland which was so far from being under-rated that it was observed that the Abatement might reasonably be maâ—â— therein in such a time of Distress as this is there And considering likewise the Calculations of the Revenue which by what I have heard from those well skill'd therein I do believe was at a great undervalue yet to supply the defects thereof and to support the Expence of the Government there the Sum demanded was no more than 70000 l. to discharge all toâ—◠〈◊〉 the Supply whereof a Bill has passed for an Additional Excise on Beer Ale and other Liquors which at a very moderate and one of the lowest computations I heard was reckoned at 30000 l. and others computed it at far more and the rest was intended to be supplyed by a Pâ—ll 〈◊〉 the Parliament had not been Prorogued before the had time to do it I have heard many Complaints of the Misapplications and Emhezilments 〈◊〉 Real and Personal Forfeited Estates wherewith the People found themselves the more sensibly 〈◊〉 â—eved for that when the Money was wanting to support the Expence of the Government 〈◊〉 Parliament were called upon to make it good and therefore this was Voted to be a great â—â—â—â—vance Pursuant to that Vote the Committe of Grievances began to enter upon particular â—â—â—quiries of the Revenue and Forfeited Estates And the first Man I remember fell in their way was Mr. Culliford who being acquinted that he stood charged with the taking into his â—â—â—â—â—dy several forfeited Goods and the Disposing thereof to his own Use when he was one of the Commissioners of the Revenue he told the Committe that he was a Member of the Parliament of England and tho' he was willing to wave his own Priviledge yet the priviledge of the â—â—â—sse of Commons in England might be concerned therein which re offered to their Considerationâ— of to that effect And the Debate thereof was afterwads Adjourned by the House and never determined for or against his Priviledge but to prevent the loss of the Testimony Witnesses were Examined there and by what had passed before here at the Treasury against him and what was there I think it plainly appeared and of the same Opinion seemed generally the rest of all who heard it examined that he was guilty of very great Breaches of Trust when he was one of the Commissioners of the Revenue by seizing and converting to his own use Forfeited Goods of considerable value and by letting or procuring Leases in trust for himself of the Milns and Weers of Kilmainham Mr. Kereifs Estate the Cranage and Wharfage of Cork which as of late exacted was affirmed in proof by persons of Credit there to be a new Exaction and upon the Merchants first set up by his own Means And Mr. Warren of Carduffs Estate of considerable yearly value at very inconsiderable Rents To which he added the Estate of one Mr. Sweetman adjacent to him who had been under some prosecution or accusation for the Murther of some Soldiers near Dublin and became Mr. Callefords Tenant for his own Estate and was never after prosecuted as I heard of The Committe of the Commons were likewise upon inquiries of other Leases let at great under-values and about 13000 l. or more said to be return'd by the Commissioners of the Forfeit Personal Estates to the Commissioners of the revenue of which it was believed a small Account had been made to their Majesties and had several Papers and Books brought before the Committe which were as seemed to me so general by confused and imperfect that they could not make a full Discovery thereby And were likewise upon another Inquiry after other Imbezilments of the Revenue and Forfeitures but were Prorogued before they could arrive at the lame Divers other wayes there are of lessening the Forfeitures as by reversing of Outlawries and thereby the former Proprietors restored and some of them as credibly said not within any Articles but what they made for themselves since the War ended and also by Grants or promises of Grants to the Lord Sidney Lord Athlone Lord Coningsby and others to that Degree that by a late credible Account I have from Ireland there remains little or nothing of the clear forfeitures but what is pitched upon or in a way of Grant to some Great Person It was much complained of the suffering so many Papists to keep Arms and many of them to be in the now standing Army of which the Members of the House from their several Countries gave many Accounts and the House of Commons had that apprehension thereof and that the same might greatly indanger the Government that they sent to the Lord Lieutenant for remedy thereof or to that Effect which his Excellency said he would take care to do as his answer was reported to the House or to that effect And there was likewise a general Complaint and Account thereof given to the House or Committe of the House of hindring the Protestants from their due course of Law against the Papists and illegal Protections granted to the Papists of which there were instances given and when the Reason was asked why so many or such persons should be Protected it was publickly answered by the said Mr. Davies who as was said had a hand in making the same out that it might be A cana Imperii and not fit to be told or to that effect But that which I apprehend to the greatest discouragement of all to the Protestants and Incouragement to the Papists is the manner of Proroguing the Parliament and what hath happened since that time I think I may without flattering of them say that there never was a House of Commons of that Kingdom of better Value than they generally were either for their Estates or the sincerity of their Principles to the English Protestant Interest and who on occasions expressed the grateful sense they had of the great kindness of this Kingdom many ways expressed towards them for their relief in their distresse We received the Lord Lieutenants first Speech with great joy for thereby he told us that he had their Majesties Commands to call us as the greatest demonstrations they could give of their Affections to us who had suffered so many great Oppressions almost to an utter desolation of the Country And could not be so well settled as by a Parliament which he said was a blessing that for so many Years we had been deprived of whereby the Interest had been in danger of loosing not only their Religion but all that property with which so great expence of Blood and Treasure
they had purchased And therefore he doubted not but we would make use of it to pass such Laws as might tend to the firm settlement of the Country upon a Protestant Interest And that He was ordered by their Majesties to assure us that nothing should be wanting on their Parts that might contribute to our lasting or perfect Happiness as among other things does in his Speech appear or to that effect This was thought all very good and very true For my Lord Cook in his 4th Institutes mentions the Law of Edw. 2. de Parliamentis tenendis singulis annis in Hibernia de legibus consuetudinibus ibidem emendandis which was so far observed that from the 7th of H. 6. which was about 200 and odd Years before the last Parliament in 1665. there were in all above 50. Sessions of Parliament and most of them were new Parliaments But from the time of the last Parliament till now they had contrary to the said Law as I conceive an Interval of about 27 Years in which time I fear may too easily be made appear there had grown over the Kingdom several Arbitrary Powers and Jurisdictions Oppressions and Grievances besides that we wanted many good Laws which had been made in this Kingdom and were as I thought as much wanted tho' not of force there and now we hoped to redress all But tho' the Matter of mony came towards the last in the Speech it came among the first of the Business and was readily imbraced by the Commons and when my Lord Lieutenant sent the Civil and Military Lists together with their own Computation of what the Revenue might yield Mr. Poultney proposed only the Sum of 70000 l. as what would be wanting to support the Government and tho' it be almost incredible to any body who has not been there to believe the great wastes and Poverty which generally reigns throughout the Kingdom save in some parts of the North and in and about Dublin and a few other Towns which are better then the rest yet the Commons were resolved to bear any thing they could rather than be further burthensome to this Kingdom And therefore Voted a Sum not exceeding 70000 l. and spent some time in finding the ways and means how to do it with the greatest ease to the Country But thereafter were brought to us by Mr. Poultney as I think two Bills which had been prepared by the Council Board the one for the said Additional Excise which was pretty well liked for its substance and the other as was said for a Charge of 15 d. per Acre on all Corn in the Kingdom which was thought very unequal in it self there being very great differences of Corn and of the several sorts and the Grasiers and Traders greatly escaping the Tax of so many People starving for want of Bread It was thought strange by some why these Bills should have been kept from us so long to let us spend so much time as aforesaid after they were tendred it was greatly disliâ—ed that the Privy Council should prepare Money Bills before the Heads of them were first found and prepared by the Commons And here I would undeceive any of your Lordships who have been told that we intended by that or any other proceeding to avoid Poynings Law being the 10th of H. 7. And thereby make our selves Independant as they call on this Kingdom For what we did was to assert the Commons having the sole Right of first finding or proposing the Heads of Bills for raising Money and that when the Cummons had proposed them to the Council Board the Council Board should draw them into Bills and transmit them into England to be transmitted back according to the Method of Poynings Law which Vote was made on the 27th of Octob. and 7 days after that we were prorogued and the Cause assign'd by his Excellencies last Speech of the 3d of Novem. for his displeasure against us was Printed is that he is troubled that we who had so many Obligations to be Loyal and Dutifully Affected to their Majesties should so far mistake our selves as to intrench upon their Majesties Prerogative and Rights of the Crown of England as we had done by our said Vote of the 27th of October and of the subsequent Vote of rejecting a Bill Entituled An Act for granting to their Majesties certain for one year which was the Corn Bill because it had its rise first from the Commons and therefore he requires his Protest against those Votes to be entred in the Lords Books or to that effect and so Prorogued we were to the 6th of April It was thought by many Members there present that his Excellency had said we had behaved our selves undutifully ingratefully in invading their Majesties Prerogative and to that effect and if they were in a mistake I confess I was in the same but I find little difference in my apprehensions between those Words and the meaning of the said Expressions in the Printed Speech However this was very unkindly taken and thought strange that this should be the cause of our parting in that manner considering first for that the Reasons appeared as was generally thought for the right of the Vote to be with us In that I think no body can reasonably deny but that Poynings Act was not intended to devest the Commons of that Original Right but that it was designed chiefly to prevent the danger of an Irish Interest being too prevalent with a Chief Governor there to the prejudice of the English And the same reason which was before the Act for the Commons to begin Money Bills still remains that they are presumed to know better than the Council what Money the Country is able to bear and how it may best be raised with ease to the Subject But that was not much insisted on in the Case For that we proposed only to pursue Poynings Act as aforesaid and having also the Act of the 3d. and 4th Ph. and Mar. Explicatory thereof and finding the Reasons as to most of us seemed with us we inspected the Journals of the House and tho' perhaps some time upon an Emergency and for an Expedition this Right might be Overlookt for a time yet Hereupon it seemed after the Debate to be the general Opinion of the House that Right was for us but it was much pressed that for supply of the present Necessity of the Government we should pass these two Bills with a salvo to our Right which was not at first well liked by some Namely Mr. Hamilton of Taltimore my self and others who thought it no good Expedient to yield the Right and have only a salvo for it the rather for that we were ready to have come if we had been called sooner and were now desirous to stay till we might raise the Money in our own way And so we might have some of our other Laws go hand in hand with the Money Bills whereas the other way the Money would be
that this Gentleman by â—nterest of some it is thought that still promotes him was recommended by his Majesty when â—reland to be Treasurer of the City but his Majesty on the first application graciously recalâ—â— his first recommendation saying he would abrige none of the Privileges of the City but in 〈◊〉 Election of this Major they were not so used by the Lords Justices and as this Imposition â—s new unto them so it was unexpected having so lately received with their Deliverance Majesties gracious promise that they should enjoy all their Priviledges and so they did by Majesties Command untill this Command of the Lords Justices These new Rules were in â—â—ce in the best days Ireland ever saw under the happy Government of the Duke of Ormond 〈◊〉 his Grace never made use of them for more than they were intended a power in the hands â—he Government to lay aside such as were questionable in their Loyalty which that City hath â—er yet been tainted in 〈◊〉 dare not stay your Lordships longer to ennumerate all the oppressions that poor Kingdom 〈◊〉 under but what I have said I humbly affirm will be asserted by thousands in Ireland All â—â—ch I humbly pray your Lordships to receive as in truth I intend it for their Majesties serâ—â—e the relief of their oppressed Subjects in Ireland among whom I am one F. Brewster 〈◊〉 Obedience to an Order of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal assembled in Parliament the 28 Feb. 〈◊〉 1692. I Sir Will. Gore of Donnegale in the County of Donnegal and Kingdom of Ireland Baâ—â—ronet do hereby humbly certify â—Hat a part of their Majesties Forces had free Quarters in the County of Donnegal other Counties in the Kingdom of Ireland during the late War and sometime after upon â—â—â—r Majesties Protestant Subjects and took much of their Goods for which they did not make â—â—â—isfaction and that when I demanded Satisfaction of some of the Officers of Collonel Tyffins â—â—giment and others who Quartered longest there they did assure me their pay was stopped â—atisfie the said Quarters and what was taken from the Inhabitants by their Men. That about 1500 Irish Officers and Soldiers most of them Armed under the Command of â—â—â—gadier O Donnel as they stiled him were quartered for the most part on the Protestant Inâ—â—â—itant of the County of Donnegal with a great rabble of Wives Children and other depenâ—â—ts for a considerable part of the Winter Anno 1691. during which time their Officers took 〈◊〉 Cattle by force from the Country people and particularly from James Hammond and Hugh â—â—derson who live near the Town of Donnegal by which they and many others were extreamâ—â— improverished that the said Quarters were not satisfied or Cattle paid for when I left that â—â—â—gdom which was about 4 Months ago nor can I hear that they have been paid for since That the said Officers and Soldiers were extream insolent during their being quartered as â—â—â—esaid demanding of me the Abby of Donnegal to say Mass in and causing their Priest to say 〈◊〉 publickly in the Town and next house to the Castle of Donnegal who being rebuked for it 〈◊〉 he was King Williams Chaplain as being Chaplain to one of Brigadier O Donnels Regiments â—â—â—t was in the Kings pay as I was informed by those that spoke to him on this occasion They â—â—â—re extreamly importunate for liberty to Quarter their Women That the method of disarming them was thus They were warned to appear bring in their â—â—â—s on a certain day to the Governor of the County that they knew they were to be disarâ—â—â— some of their Officers having told me so by which means they brought in a most inconâ—â—â—rable number of unfixed Arms and kept the best which I believe they have still that I presâ—â—â— the Governor of the County to clap up one of the Officers that I knew had a great number 〈◊〉 Musquets and did not deliver them but he excused himself for want of Orders That I have been lately informed by Letters that the Kings Rent which is a Chiefrent payâ—â—â— out of most Estates into the Exchequer of Ireland are demanded from the most Estates in â—â—â—ght and elsewhere which may keep waste none daring to Plant them for fear of being disâ—â—â—ed That I have received but four Pound since the year 1688. Out of an Estate that pays â—â—â—t 66 l. Yearly into the Exchequer that by the present Collecting the said Rents many Estates may be ruined run more more in Arrear except their Majesties will be pleased to for 〈◊〉 till the wisdom of a Parliament there may take such course in it as may be to their satisfactâ—â—â— All which I most humbly certify as truth having been a Spectator of most of the things hâ—â—â— in mentioned as witness my hand this 1st of March 1692. Will. 〈◊〉 Die Jovis 2. Martij 1692. IN Obedience to your Lordships Commands to give my Reasons why I did not mention 〈◊〉 which was given to me for Reasons why those persons that were aggrieved by the Goveâ—ment in Ireland did not complain to the Lords Justices was this That they observed and 〈◊〉 believe nothing was done by the Commissioners of the Revenue but what was agreeable to tâ—â— Majesties pleasure In obedience to your Lordships further Commands to explain who I mean by saying it 〈◊〉 thought Mr. Robinson had disposed of the Stores to the Value of 8000 l. for the use of sâ—â— Body I mean my Lord Coningsby and himself Your Lordships are further pleased to command me to name who told me that it was tâ—â—â— purpose to complain to the Government of any Grievance and that they should be treated 〈◊〉 Enemies if they did was Mr. Joy in the case of his Wool Mr. Henry Davies in that of the 〈◊〉 Panns set to Judge Lindon and by Mr. Cocker in that of the Imbezlement of the Forfeâ—â—â— Goods and Stores He further adding that he had a small Imployment which he believe◠〈◊〉 should have lost if he had appeared in any such thing Mr. Edward Haines a Sheriffs Peer and one of the Common Council of the City of Dubâ—â—â— told me that tho he and several others had a desire to complain of the Grievance in denyâ—â— the City their Right of Electing their Lord Major they durst not do it for that the Lords â—â—stices looked upon any that complained as Enemies and that he was Indicted by the Lord â—â—jors order at their own Quarter Sessions for appearing in the right of the City tho the pâ—â—tence was for Words he spake and the Lord Major being not able to prevail with the Grâ—â—â— Jury to find the Bill he was Indicted at the Kings Bench and that he had heard they woâ—â— Ruine him There was Mr. Flood and several others that made Complaints of the like Natâ—â—â— Fran. Brewster One of the Earl of Mulgraves Speeches in Parliament about the Bill Entituled An Act for the fâ—â—â—dom of Elections and more impartial Proceedings in Parliament passed
is readier then my self to allow that we owe the Crown all submission as to the time of calling Parliaments according to Law and appointing also where they shall sit but with reverence be it spoken the King owes the Natioâ— an intre freedom in Chusing their Representatives and it is no less his Duty to God then his true interest that such a faâ—â— and just proceeding should be used towards us Consider my Lords of what mighty consequence it may he that so many Votes should be free when upon one single one may depend the whole security or loss of this Nation By one single Vote such things may happen that I almost tremble to think on By one single Vote a GENERAL EXCISE may be granted and then we are all lost By one single Vote the Crown may be impowered to name all the Commissioners for raising the Taxes and then surely we should be in a fair way towards it Nay whatever has happened may again be apprehended and I hope those reverend Prelates will reflect that if they groâ— once obnoxious to a prevalent Party one single Voice may be as dangerous to that Bench as a general dissatisfaction amoâ—â— the People proved to be once in a late Experience which I am far from saying by way of threatning but only by way of cautioâ— My Lords WE may think because this concerns not the house of Lords that we need not be so over careful of thâ— Matter but there are Noblemen in France at least such as were so before they were enslaved who that they might domâ— neer over others and serve a present turn perhaps let all things alone so long till the people were quite Mastered and the Nobility themselves too to bear them company So that I never met a French man even of the greatest rank and some had 10000 Pistols a year in employments that diâ— not envy us here for our freedom from that which they groan under and this I have observed universally except just Monsieuâ— de Louvoy Mon. Colbert or such People because they were the Ministers themselves who occasioned these Complaints anâ— thrived by the Oppressions of others My Lords This Country of ours is very apt to be provoked we have had a late experience of it and tho no wise man buâ— would bear a great deal rather then make a bustle yet really the people are otherwise and will at any time change a presenâ— uneasiness for any other condition tho a worse we have known it so too often and sometimes repented it too late Let them not have this new Provocation in being debarred from any Security in their Representatives for malicious People will not fail to infuse into their minds that all those vast sums which have been and still must be raised towards this War are noâ— disposed away in so fair a manner as ought to be and I am afraid they will say their mony is not given but taken However whatere success this Bill may may have with your Lordships there must needs come some good Effect of it for if it passes it will give us security if it be obstructed it will give us warning I humbly move your Lordships that the Bill may be committed After which it being put to the question whether the bill should be rejected or committed it was carried for the bill by 15. Votes there being only 32 against it and 47 for it amongst which latter were 5 Bishops but it was so late that many of the last refused to stay and so it was deferred to a further day by which time so many Proxies were obtained as threw out the Bill as nine a Clock at night by 2 Votes Note The occasion of all this was their having been several other Prisoners as well as these Lords brought to the Kings Bench here was an Affidavit of Aaron Smith drawn privately at somebodys Chamber so equivocally that instead of the word Witnesses according to the Statute he only swore there was Evidence against each Prisoner and at the end of it instead of Witnesses against each Prisoner the Affidavit only mentioned Witnesses against the Prisoners by all which he saved himself from being forsworn so preventing any punishment from being prosecuted by the the Prisoners and his Affidavit served for 〈…〉 tho' but an ill one for the Judges to remand the Prisoners back they supposing there were two Witnesse against each of the Prisoners Note also While this was under examination the Judges shewed plainly they had not doubted of the Equivocation but hoped it was sufficient to warrant or at least to excusâ— their Proceedings which perhaps had never thus luckily come to light if Peers had not been concerned to bring it into their House by the order of which entred in their Books the subjects of all Ranks are better secured ever after These Notes should have been inserted after the 17 day of Sep. 1692. Note That Precedence is not observed in the House of Lords where they Signe Protestations He that draws them up Signs first and then others as they come to the Books