General Call Mr. Dangerfield D. Oates was going out of the Court. Prisoner May Mr. Oates go out of the Court. Court Yes yes D. Oates I will be within call my Lord. Prisoner I only submit it to your Lordships Whether or no a Witness may go out of the Court D. Oates I will stay then Att. General Swear Mr. Dangerfield Prisoner Pray stay L. C. J. Why so Prisoner Here I am a Prisoner my Lords and submit it to your Lordships Whether or no Mr. Dangerfield who hath had the Censure of this Court may be a Witness Whether or no Council shall shew reasons to your Lordship whether he may speak or no. J. Jones You must shew your Exceptions that you have against him Prisoner My Exception is this That he was convicted of Felony that he broke Prison and was outlawed upon it Besides this my Lord he is a Stigmatick hath stood in the Pillory and was burnt in the hand Now I humbly beseech your Lordships that you will be pleased to hear what my Council can say and then my Lords if your over-rule I shall give place with all my heart L. C. J. I think it reasonable if you desire Council that they should be allowed to speak Att. General If your Lordship please when my Lords Exceptions appear J. Jones What are your Exceptions my Lord Prisoner That I told you before-hand he is an outlawed person he is convicted of Felony J. Jones When was he out-lawed Att. General In the 27th Year of the King and we say he hath a Pardon in the 30th Year of the King L. C. J. How do you prove he was burnt in the Hand my Lord Att. General When was he burnt in the Hand Prisoner Call Briscoe Att. General We bring a Pardon unto that and that will restore him A Record produced Att. General That Record we confess shew the Pardon shew the Pardon L. C. J. Now go to that for which he was burnt in the hand Att. General Here is a Pardon that extends to them all The Pardon Read Decimo tertio die Januarii Anno Regni c. L. C. J. This does not do it Att. General Yes my Lord it does L. C. J. Is that the Newgate Pardon Att. General Yes my Lord. L. C. J. We have had it in the Court. Att General Yes my Lord. L. C. J. And Felony and Outlawry is in it Att. General Yes my Lord. L. C. J. Where is that for which he was burnt in the hand Att. General For that we give an Answer he was received to the benefit of his Clergy and he was burnt in the hand and his Pardon is after that too L. C. J. So it is Att. General Then his Pardon answers them all L. C. J. Now you see my Lord you think Dangerfield ought not to be a Witness who hath gone through so many Pnnishments out-lawed for Felony and burnt in the hand for Felony Mr Atturney makes Answer we have a Pardon and by that he is restored as he says to be a Witness again If you desire Council to speak to this point Whether or no a man branded and burnt in the hand for Felony and afterwards is pardoned is capable of being a Witness I see no reason to deny it you Att. General If there be matter for Council to speak in that Case we must submit if your Lordship make it a doubt L. C. J. I do for my own part in this I am clear if a Man were Convicted of Perjury that no Pardon will make him a Witness because it is to do the Subject wrong A Pardon does not make a Man an Honest Man it takes off reproaches and the Law is wise in that the Law will not suffer endless contumelies to be heaped upon Men nor to be call'd perjured Rascalls and such things It is only to prevent upbraiding Language which tends to the breach of the Peace But in my Opinion if a Man stands Convicted in Court for Perjury no Pardon can ever make him a Witness and set him upright again But that is a different Case from this we are upon this single Case Whether a Man that is burnt in the hand for Felony whether a Pardon can set him right or no For this I make more doubtful than the other for a Man may be that hath committed a Robery would be afraid to forswear himself for though one is a great the other is a greater Sin and that in the Subject matter which considered I think it reasonable to allow my Lord Council to speak to that single point That a Person being burnt in the hand for Felony and afterwards Pardoned whether he is capable of being a Witness Prisoner Then I do name Mr. Jones Mr. Saunders and Mr. Darnal L. C. J. Very well Mr. Saunders was call'd but was not in Court L. C. J. Are you prepared Mr. Jones to speak Mr. Jones No my Lord. J. Jones My Lord do you except against that one particular Prisoner I stand upon both his being Pillored and Burnt in the hand L. C. J. Will you admit that he stood in the Pillory Att. General I know nothing of it L. C. J. I will tell you my Lord you will see whether it be necessary to protract this or no for your Council will hardly undertake to argue unprepared about this Point and if the Tryal should be Adjourn'd it would be very troublesome I think it the duty of my Place to discharge my Conscience for you and against you as the matter shall fall out and if so be that you should insist upon it and he be capable of being a Witness supposing it so yet I must say you may give in the Evidence of every Record of the Conviction of any sort of Crimes he hath been guilty of and they shall be Read They say last day there were Sixteen if there were an Hundred they should be Read against him and they shall all go to invalidate any Credit that is to be given to any thing he shall Swear Prisoner My Lord I humbly submit my self to your Lordship Sixteen we have I bring but Six You shall have them Mr. Atturney when you please L. C. J. My Lord if you think it worth you while to put it to Council to argue Whether he may be a Witness or whether you think it may be as well for you supposing he be a Witness the producing those things against him or the Records of those Crimes that he hath been Convicted of whether that will be as well for you or no I leave it to your self to do as you think best Mr. Darnal I conceive with submission to your Lordship that he cannot be a Witness L. C. J. Are you prepared to speak to it now Mr. Darnal My Lord I am ready to offer somewhat to your Lordship why I conceive he ought not to be Sworn but I desire first that the Pardon may be Read because many Persons and Offences are comprized in it L. C. J. It is
BY Vertue of an Order to me granted by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled dated on Thursday the 28th of Octob. 1680 I do appoint Randal Taylor near Stationers Hall to Print this Trial of Roger Earl of Castlemaine and that no other Person or Persons print the same JO. COMBE London Januar. 12. 1680-1 THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL OF CASTLEMAINE FOR High Treason In Conspiring the Death of the KING The Subversion of the Government and Introducing of Popery and Arbitrary Power BEFORE The Lord Chief Justice SCROGGS c. At the KING's BENCH Bar at Westminster the 23th June 1680 Where he was Acquitted LONDON Printed for S. G and N. E. and are to be sold by Randal Taylor near Stationers-Hall 1681. THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL of CASTLEMAINE ROGER PALMER Esque Earl of Castlemaine in the Kingdom of Ireland having been Arraigned at the Kings Bench Bar the Sixteenth of June 1680 for High Treason To which he Pleaded Not Guilty c. On Wednesday the 23th of June 1680 being appointed for his Trial the Court being sate and the usual Formalities perform'd the Lieutenant of the Tower delivered him into Court and then the said Court proceeded as followeth Clerk of the Crown Cryar Make Proclamation Proclamation for silence Cryer O yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment O yes If any one can inform our Soveraign Lord the King the Kings Serjeant at Law the Kings Attourney General or this Inquest now to be taken of the High Treason whereof Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland stands Indicted let them come forth and they shall be heard for the Prisoner stands at the Bar upon his deliverance Clerk of the Crown Cryer Make an O yes Cryer O yes You good Men that are empannelled to enquire between our Soveraign Lord the King and Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain within the Kingdom of Ireland answer to your Names Clerk of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up thy hand These good Men that were lately called and now here appear are to pass between our Soveraign Lord the King and you upon your Life or Death if you challenge any of them you must speak as they come to the Book to be Sworn and before they are Sworn JURY Sir John Cutler Knight and Baronet Sir Reginald Foster Baronet Henry Herriott Esq Richard Cheney Esq Thomas Johnson Esq John Robert's Esq Francis Dorrington Esq Hugh Squire Esq Charles Good Esq John Pulford Esq Edward Claxton Esq Francis Mayhew Gent. Cryer O Yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment C. of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up your hand You Gentlemen of the Jury that are now Sworn look upon the Prisoner and hearken to his charge You shall understand that he stands Indicted by the Name of Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland for that he as a false Traytor against our most Illustrious and Excellent Prince and Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. and his Natural Lord not having the Fear of God before his Eyes nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil his Cordial Love true due and Natural Obedience which true and Faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King ought to bear towards him altogether withdrawing and contriving and with all his might intending to disturb the Peace and common Tranquility of this Kingdom and to bring and put our Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction and alter the true Worship of God within this Kingdom established to the Superstition of the Romish Church and to stir up and move War against our said Soveraign Lord the King within this Realm of England and to subvert the Government thereof the Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord Charles the Second of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. at the parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Midd. with divers other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown did traiterously imagine and intend the killing death and final destruction of our said Lord the King and to change and alter and utterly subvert the Ancient Government of this Kingdom and to depose and wholly to deprive our said Lord the King of his Crown and Government of this Realm of England and to extirpate the true Protestant Religion And to accomplish and fulfil the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid the said Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown the same Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year aforesaid with force and Arms in the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields aforesaid in the County aforesaid Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously and Traiterously did assemble unite and gather themselves together and then and there Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously Subtily and Traiterously did consult and agree to bring our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and Final Destruction and to deprive him of his Crown and Government of England and to Introduce and Establish the Religion of the Church of Rome in this Kingdom and the sooner to fulfil and accomplish the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous imaginations and purposes aforesaid he then and there did Falsly Maliciously and Trayterously promise divers great Rewards and did pay divers Sums of Money to several Persons unknown and then and there falsly and traiter ously did write divers Notes to incite several other Persons to accomplish the Treasons aforesaid against the Life of our Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and contrary to the form of the Statute in such Case made and provided Clerk of the Crown Upon this Indictment he hath been Arraigned and hath pleaded thereunto Not Guilty and for his Tryal he puts himself upon God and his Countrey which Countrey you are Your charge is to inquire Whether he be Guilty of the High Treason whereof he stands Indicted or not Guilty If you find him guilty you are to inquire What Goods and Chattles Lands and Tenements he had at the time when the High Treason was committed or at any time since If you find him not Guilty you are to say so and no more and hear your Evidence Cryer O yes If any one will give Evidence on the behalf of our Soveraign Lord the King against Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland let him come forth and he shall be heard for the Prisoner now stands at the Bar upon his deliverance M. Bonithon May
the Consult D. Oates No my Lord when we say the Consult we mean what was agreed on at that Consult not concerning these matters that were done Six Months before L. C. J. Mr. Oates Tell me when you mention the Design and the Consult Do not you alwaies mean the Death of the King and the bringing in Popery D. Oates Yes my Lord but the terms are not convertible For my Lord when we say the Consult there was something else done my Lord as that Consult which had not an absolute Relation to the Design and of that I will give your Lordship one instance as the sending Father Cary to Rome which they did in some Three Years L. C. J. Some trivial matters concerning their own Government but the thing you talk of is the same Consult and Design D. Oates When I speak of the word Design it was so taken among us and so received by my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. How can you say it was so received by him D. Oates Because he used the same word and answered us according to our Interpretation J. Jones My Lord he speaks of the Design thus There was a Design for the Killing the King there was a Design of the Priests and Fathers for it but saith he Afterwards there was a general Consultation and this Design came to be form'd by this general Consult which my Lord Castlemain as he thinks had no knowledge of till the time they met together in Lincolns-Inn Fields and afterward went and discours'd about it L. C. J. It is very fair that he doth not know that my Lord Castlemain had any knowledge before the Consult of this business but he says The Design upon which the Consult was that he might know which was to destroy the King and bring in Popery And he says My Lord Castlemain did understand this word Design in that sense they did because he answered their Letters according to their Interpretation of it How do you know he understood the word Design in its utmost capacity as you understood it D. Oates When we have our Words we have our Keys whereby we understand them But I will answer this Question to the satisfaction of the Gentlemen of the Jury My Lord he hath many times spoken in his Letters of introducing the Popish Religion and annext it to the word Design of promoting the Catholick Religion here in England L. C. J. Now methinks you have brought the word Design to something else than Killing the King D. Oates Yes my Lord The Subversion of Religion and the Government L. C. J. Did he put in Government Did he talk of bringing in the Catholick Religion and altering the Government D. Oates No my Lord I won't say that L. C. J. When we are examining concerning Mens lives we must be careful of their words in such matters D. Oates One part of my Evidence I have omitted Your Lordship did ask me how I came to know my Lord Castlemain's hand My Lord somtimes we received Letters from him subscribed Palmer and sometimes subscribed Castlemain sometimes some other Name which I may not remember and they were generally received as from him And I have seen my Lord Castlemain write for that Night as near as I remember it was Post-night L. C. J. At Fenwick's Chamber D. Oates At Fenwick's Chamber and my Lord Castlemain did write a Letter subscribed it and sealed it and I was fain to go to the General Post-House it was so late J. Jones What did he subscribe then D. Oates No my Lord I saw no more than the Superscription L. C. J. Then you did not see his Name to it D. Oates No my Lord. My Lord Castlemain did ask Why he had not Answers to such and such Letters For several Letters I had seen which were not of much moment L. C. J. I wish you had one that was of moment D. Oates It cannot be expected my Lord that I should have them L. C. J. My Lord ask him what you please Prisoner You say Mr. Oates you received Letters from me in Spain D. Oates I never said so Prisoner You saw Letters in Spain from me D. Oates Yes I have seen Letters in Spain that were from you Prisoner Look you Mr. Oates Pray let me ask you a Question you said this That you did not know me when you met me at the Consult D. Oates What Consult Prisoner At Fenwick's Chamber D. Oates I did not know you at Wild-house Prisoner There you met me first D. Oates There I met the Prisoner at the Bar. L. C. J. He says he did not know you at Wild-house but he came to know you by Langworth in Lincolns-Inn-Fields and then you went together to Fenwick's Chamber Prisoner Mr. Oates Did not you say that at Wild-house you did not know me nor I you L. C. J. He says he can't tell whether you knew him or no but he did not know you Prisoner Was I familiar with you D. Oates No my Lord. Prisoner Did I talk Treason at Wild-house D. Oates It was the Discourse of the day but I do not remember every particular of the Discourse but I remember what your Opinion was concerning the Rector of Liege and the Rector of Gant Prisoner Was there any thing about killing the King at Wild-house D. Oates Really my Lord I can't remember I wont charge it there because I am upon my Oath though I morally believe as to my self that there was discourse bad enough there Prisoner Mr. Oates Pray will you hear me then the acquaintance I had with you was by Mr. Langworth and then we went that Night to Fenwick's Chamber and there we staid very long and there we had all this Discourse D. Oates Yes Prisoner Look Mr. Oates Was there any by besides Mr. Langworth and Mr. Fenwick D. Oates Really my Lord I don't remember any body was by unless a Maid might come to fill a Cup of Drink or so Prisoner Mr. Oates Pray Mr. Oates did you and I ever meet together after that time D. Oates Really my Lord I can't be exact in that Prisoner Did you never see me nor Discourse with me after that time D. Oates I cannot recollect my self as to that I cannot remember L. C. J. He does not remember that ever he was with you afterwards Prisoner You don't know whether ever I discours'd with you afterwards D. Oates I don't remember Prisoner Very well Mr. Oates Look you Sir you don't remember that I ever had any Discourse with you after that time and no body was by but Mr. Fenwick and Mr. Langworth D. Oates As I remember Prisoner Was not there another Priest there D. Oates There is no body occurs to my Memory Prisoner Mr. Oates you brought me Letters from Spain D. Oates I brought a Letter from Spain directed to â—ou in 77. Prisoner Was I in Town or out of Town D. Oates I delivered it to the Provincial Prisoner You went over to Liege did not you see me there D. Oates No my Lord
it does not set a Man as if he had neuer Offended It cannot in reason be said a Man guilty of Perjury is as Innocent as if he had never been Perjured Att. General I say if a Man be Pardoned he is as if he were not Guilty L. C. J. If I were in my Lord Castlemain's Case I would submit it but when he hath given his Testimony my Lord shall have liberty to give in the Records against him of what Crimes he hath committed J. Jones I do confess indeed that my Lord Hales in his little Book of the Pleas of the Crown saith That a Man that hath had the benefit of his Clergy is restored to his Credit J. Raymond If that case be allowed it is a plain case for there is no Man can wage Battle but he that is Liber legalis homo Recorder A Man broke Prison and therefore he could not wage Battle he replies the King hath Pardoned me that Felony and thereupon he is admitted to wage Battle J. Jones Where there is no Judgment given in the Case and the King doth Pardon a Man that doth make a very great difference Recorder In the Case of Witherington my Lord Chief Justice did look upon the Records and afterwards said he was a good Witness and was Admitted Prisoner If you have Law by you I must consent L. C. J. Then you must consent Recorder There are several Persons who have had Pardons after Robberies and we are forced to make use of some of these Fellows L. C. J. Before Conviction Recorder No after Conviction my Lord I have known a Prisoner at the Bar when my Lords the Judges have been there to be a Witness And if the Court had made any doubt it would have been a Question before this time of day Att. General My Lord if you please Mr. Dangerfield may be Sworn If your Lordship pleases L. C. J. My Lord shall have the benefit of excepting against his credibility Then Mr. Justice Raymond went down to the Court of Common Pleas to know their Opinion J. Jones Have you any other Witness in the mean time Att. General No my Lord he is a principal Witness Sir F. W. Besides the common Practice here is a Book that says he shall wage Battle J. Jones That is when there is a Pardon before Conviction Sol. General But here my Lord he says the Reatum is taken away and then it takes away his disabilities too The difference can be nothing here before Conviction and after because before Conviction there is a disability before Conviction he is disabled from waging Battle So that that makes no difference before Conviction and other Cases after Conviction and the disability is taken away by the Pardon and he is restored to be a Freeman L. C. J. There is a disability upon Presumption tho not upon Conviction Sol. General There is the same legal impediment in the one as in the other but his Credit is left to the Breast of the Jury Recorder When a Pardon comes it takes away not only Poenam but Reatum and the Reason my Lord Hobart gives L. C. J. Nay give your Reason Recorder For Felony is Contra Coronam Dignitatem is a Fault against the King and when the King Pardons it it ceases and in another place it is said It Pardons all disabilities incident to him J. Jones That is before Conviction still L. C. J. Don't my Lord Cook tell you expresly That the taking a Pardon doth not prove any Offence You take a Pardon it ought not to be concluded that you are Guilty but the proper conclusion of a Wise Man is that you would be safe It can't be thought that every Man that hath a Pardon in England is guilty of all those Offences that are there Pardoned J. Jones There is a difference between a General Pardon and a particular Pardon when a Man doth accept of a special Pardon it must be intended that he hath some Consciousness of Guilt or else he would not take it but he that is Included in a general Pardon may be clear because all Men are Included in it unless some Persons particularly excepted and the difference is taken in that very point from accepting a General and a Special Pardon L. C. J. That the Acceptance of a General Pardon doth not barely of it self intend Men to be Guilty of the Crimes is plain and the reason is most apparent for besides that Men be safe so there be times that give a Reason why Men should have a Pardon because no man knows when he is safe Perjury so abounds that no man can say he is safe and that is a Reason why Men should be very willing to accept of Pardons Clerk of the Crown Here 's my Lord Hales's Book about the Pleas of the Crown Recorder He says when the King hath discharged and pardoned him he hath cleared the Person of the Crime and Infamy J. Jones It is so no doubt Sir F. W. May we pass upon these Authorities J. Jones Sir Francis We are not willing to go about it till it be concluded for that purpose we have desired my Brother Raymond to know the Judges Opinions of the Common Pleas. Recorder He doth expresly say it hath restored him to his Credit and in Witherington's Case he did call for the very Records Att. General If it restore him to his Credit I hope it shall not blemish him so much when he is Sworn that he shall not be believed L. C. J. We won't have any prepossession in that Case his Crimes shall be all taken notice of Is it fit to have Men Guilty of all sorts of Villanies and not to observe it J. Jones In that very Case my Lord Hobart says A Man may say of a Pardoned Man he was a Felon though he cannot say now he is a Felon and now what can be objected to this Case Recorder Things may be objected against a Person and his Credit left to the Jury but the Question now is Whether he shall be a Witness or no L. C. J. We have Men grown so Insolent they behave themselves with that vile Insolence that now they take upon them to speak against whole Societies of Men as if so be there were any thing in them that should render them better then their former Lives or Natures Humility becomes penitents and no wicked Man is supposed to be penitent that hath not that but these carry it with that Insolency as if they were not concern'd themselves when God knows the best of them discover what they do by being but parties themselves Mr. Justice Raymond return'd from the Court of Common Pleas. L. C. J. I will tell you what my Brethrens Opinions are he hath put it to them on both Accounts That he was convicted of Felony and Burnt in the Hand for it that he was outlawed for Felony and hath a General Pardon They say they are of Opinion That a General Pardon would not restore him to
Letters and Lists of Names containing matter to the same effect as I told you before as those in Mansell's Chamber and all tending to the Credit of the Sham Plot or the Presbyterian Plot. Now my Lord a pretty while after this in August as near as I can remember about the middle of August I went to wait upon his Lordship the very next day after I had been treated withal in the Tower to kill the King whom God preserve my Lord and his Lordship had a Servant then in the Room and he sent his Servant down Stairs and looked upon me with a very Austere Countenance Said he Why would you offer to refuse the business for which you were taken out of Prison L. C. J. To you Mr. Dangerfield To me my Lord. L. C. J. Who was by Mr. Dangerfield No body but his Lordship and my self for he sent his Servant out before So he asked me Why I would offer to refuse the business I was taken out of Prison for I asked his Lordship What that was Said he Was not you at the Tower yesterday Yes my Lord I was Would your Lordship have me Kill the King I suppose that 's the business Yes that is said he Upon which my Lord fell into such a fury that I was fore'd rudely to leave the Room and went down Stairs I think at the same time his Lordship was writing the Compendium of the late Plot for there I saw some words in a Paragraph that lay upon the Table which I afterwards saw in that Book There was Ink set upon the Table and open in his Lordships hand And his Lordship did use in his Discourse to call his Majesty Tyrant L. C. J. Have you heard him In what company Mr. Dangerfield In his familiar Discourse As to ask when his Majesty will return from Windsor Says he When the Tyrant pleases And I remember I heard his Lordship mention the word Tyrant to Mrs. Cellier at Powis-house Att. General How came that Discourse about Killing the King What was the occasion of that Discourse L. C. J. Had you refused it to my Lord Mr. Dangerfield Yes my Lord I refused L. C. J. What did you say to him Mr. Dangerfield I said any body but my King my Lord. L. C. J. He said Why did you refuse to do that for which you were taken out of Prison What is that my Lord Was not you at the Tower yesterday Why won't you do it What is it my â—ord Is it to Kill the King I suppose that it is saith he That your Lordship intends Yes says he That is it why won't you do it That is what he says Att. General That is the Evidence we give J. Jones You say he was very violent L. C. J. Was you ever in his company afterwards Mr. Dangerfield No not after that my Lord that I know of L. C. J. What kind of fury did he shew to you at that time Mr. Dangerfield My Lord he was in a great rage as his Lordship is very cholerick he was bustling about and I knew not what he intended to do and I was unwilling to stand the Test of his Anger His Lordship seemed by his look to be meditating Revenge L. C. J. How Mr. Dangerfield I say this After his Lordship had sent his Servant out of the Room said he Why would you offer to refuse the business for which you were taken out of Prison Said he Were not you at the Tower yesterday Said I Yes my Lord I was Would you have me kill the King Is that the business Yes that it is said my Lord very angrily Prisoner When did you go to the Tower Was this the next day after it Mr. Dangerfield The next day after it Prisoner Mr. Dangerfield Pray let me ask you one Question Did not I threaten to kill you or have some of my Servants kill you if you came unto me again Mr. Dangerfield One time his Lordship saw me at my Lady Powis's house and he shewed me a very particular Favour I speak it in the presence of Almighty God nothing out of revenge nor for any sort of Interest Prisoner Was I never angry with you but at that time Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord I know not or any other time that your Lordship was angry L. C. J. Now what say you my Lord Prisoner The First thing I desire to do is here are two Gentlemen gives in Evidence against me the one is Mr. Oates the other Mr. Dangerfield Mr. Oates says That he in Spain did see several Letters from me That when he came over into England he brought a Letter from Spain to me that that Letter was given to the Provincial and the Provincial he supposes gave it me Now my Lord I only desire this that the first thing that shall be done is that you will please to call Mr. Parker who will shew you what a kind of Man Mr. Oates is And I am glad since you say that Mr. Dangerfield is a good Witness that I can prove that every word he says is a lie And so begin with Mr. Oates Prisoner My Lord I would offer you a Record a Record of some particular Actions from Hastings L. C. J. Read the Record The Record Read L. C. J. What use can you make of this Prisoner My Lord the case is only this My Lord I will tell you here is Mr. Oates this is only to shew what kind of Man this Mr. Oates is Mr. Oates he comes and accuses a Man at Hastings for Buggery there he is Indicted and comes to his Tryal and then he is found Innocent Now my Lord I sent for this Mr. Parker to tell your Lordship what kind of man this Mr. Oates was and for that purpose shew the whole proceeding L. C. J. My Lord you shall have all the Justice in the World but we must have right done to the Kings Evidence You have brought in a thing whereby all you can make against Mr. Oates is this That he was the Prosecutor of a Man for the Crime of Buggery and is supposed to have taken his Oath there and notwithstanding the Jury would not believe him and found the Man not Guilty Prisoner My Lord I come to shew you the motives how the Jury came to clear him that is by proving this man was in another place at that time and satisfied the Court and Jury that he was from Eleven a Clock or sooner till Eight or Ten a Clock with them in Company where it was only the malice that was between Oates and Parker And several Witnesses that were in the place where he said the Buggery was committed said that he was not there and they Witnesses positively said they were with him and all looked upon Mr. Oates as a detestable man and sent him out of the Court. L. C. J. Do you prove this by any but Parker J. Raymond This ought not to be admitted for if it be Mr. Oates stands here to answer all the Faults
as to the business of the Divorce I might look upon it as impertinent and so possibly might not mind what he said Prisoner I only offer this to you and if your Lordships command me to desist I will desist Dr. Oates I desire my Evidence to prove that I was in Town J. Raymond Pray Mr. Oates you are an Evidence you must be govern'd by Mr. Atturney L. C. J. It would be very fit Mr. Atturney to prove that Mr. Oates did come over with Hilsley in the Pacquet Boat J. Raymond Mr. Oates I remember very well gave an Account of his coming over said he I did come over with such and such persons and among the rest was Mr. Hilsley This is only to prove that he was at the Consult Att. Gen. We can prove it Records produced against Mr. Dangerfield L. C. J. Here is That he was burnt in the hand and Outlawed for Felony Pilloryed for Cheating Twice Pilloryed and see whether he was Whipt or no. Sir F. W. I know nothing of the Pillory J. Raymond Here was a Record of being burnt in the hand and a Record for putting away false Guinneys L. C. J. For that he was to stand in the Pillory Clerk of the Crown Here is one Record for another Shilling gilt L. C. J. Was that in the Pillory too Att. Gen. He was fined Fifty Pounds Clerk of the Crown Here are Three in Salisbury for Three several Guinneys and he was Adjudged to the Pillory for them all Att. Gen. It was all at one Assizes my Lord. L. C. J. My Brother Tryed him Clerk of the Crown He was Tryed before Mr. Justice Jones and to stand in the Pillory for all three L. C. J. What have you else to say Prisoner Call Mrs. Cellier and Mr. Dowdal L. C. J. What is your Name Sir Dowdal My Name is Bennet Dowdal L. C. J. What have you to say to him my Lord Prisoner Mr. Dowdal the case is this Mr. Dangerfield tells me I was angry with him at such a time for a business at my house was I not angry with him at Powis house for going to the Lords in the Tower Att. General Then he did go about it Dowdal Mrs. Cellier spake to me to speak to Mr. Dangerfield not to be troubled at your anger J. Raymond When was this Dowdal After the Jesuites died Prisoner He proves this That Mrs. Cellier spake to him to pacify Mr. Dangerfield and Dangerfield did tell him I was angry with him for going in my Name to the Lords J. Raymond He says no such thing my Lord. L. C. J. You must not ask him what Mrs. Cellier said Mrs. Cellier This day Twelve Month he and I had been employed in writing Copies of some Letters and I sent him to my Lord to know if he would go something towards the Printing them and he went from him to the Lords in the Tower In an hour and half after my Lord came to me very angry Mrs. Cellier said he I thought you would not forfeit your discretion to send such a Rascal to me if you send him to me again I will bid my Servants kick him And said I to Mr. Dangerfield you are not to note that for he is a very good Man and may be angry one time and pleased another and I would have sent him another time and said he Pray Madam don't send me thither I would rather go an hundred miles of your Errand L. C. J. Dangerfield that Discourse you had with my Lord was it before the Jesuits dyed or after Mr. Dangerfield What Discourse L. C. J. When you discours'd about killing the King Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord Two months after L. C. J. When was the time that these words were spoken Mr. Dangerfield When his Lordship was in that Passion L. C. J. When was that Mr. Dangerfield My Lord it was about the middle of August L. C. J. Was you ever in his Company after Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord I saw him once at Powis House L. C. J. Had he ever been angry before Mr. Dangerfield No not till this time my Lord. L. C. J. Here Mrs. Cellier witnesses that this day twelve month my Lord was extreamly angry insomuch that when she would have had you go on an Errand you would not Mr. Dangerfield My Lord that time I had been with my Lord Castlemain I went home to Mrs. Celliers house which I did then call my home and said I My Lord Castlemain is most violently angry with me L. C. J. When was this Mr. Dangerfield This was the latter end of August L. C. J. But she talks of this time Twelve-month Mr. Dangerfield It is no such thing my Lord. Mrs. Cellier I said Pray carry this Letter to my Lord Castlemain Pray excuse me said he I had rather go an hundred Miles than go by his door L. C. J. Whereas Dangerfield says He had this Discourse in August Mrs. Cellier says in June or July this day twelve-month particularly she gave him a Letter and he said Pray excuse me I would go an Hundred Miles for you but I would not go into my Lords Company again if I could help it Prisoner My Lord Mr. Dowdal can tell it L. C. J. Did he acknowledg to you my Lords anger in the beginning of July Dowdal It was within a week after the Jesuits died L. C. J. I don't know that Dowdal It was about the Twenty first of June L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses one saies in June or the beginning of July says Mrs. Cellier this day twelve-month he came and told me my Lord was extreamly angry with him And she would afterwards have had him carried a Letter But he said Pray excuse me I would go an hundred miles but he would not go again to him if he could help it And Dowdal says he told him about that time of my Lords anger with him Att. Gen. Hold your tongue Mr. Dangerfield J. Raymond What Jesuits Dowdal The five Jesuits Prisoner If you please my Lords I would only tell you this My Lords you see that these two Witnesses testify that I was angry with Mr. Dangerfield in June My Lords I only say this to you that when I was Examined at the Council before the King of this Particular my Lord Chancellour asked him the Particulars of it and he did confess this thing which I now prove Now my Lords I inferr this if I was so angry with him for offering to go to the Tower when he went to the Tower in my Name L. C. J. That they have said that you were very angry Dowdal Dangerfield told me so that he was angry about his going to the Tower in my Lords Name unknown to him L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses to prove that my Lord was angry with him for going to the Tower in his name and they both testify he was extreamly high and refused to carry a Letter to my Lord and yet he says in August following he had this Discourse Prisoner
I have now only one thing to say what hath past between Mr. Oates and Mr. Dangerfield L. C. J. Do it as near as you can Sir F. W. We have some other Evidence to answer this Att. Gen. If your Lordship please we will call two or three Witnesses to Prove the Point First to prove this last thing that we have been in my Lords company later than my Lord speaks of L. C. J. He says August Att. Gen. We will prove after that time that is the time that pinches us Prisoner My Lady Powis is in Court will you hear her Lady Powis My Lord I never did send a Letter by Mr. Dangerfield to any body in my life nor I never read a Letter in Mr. Dangerfields presence nor never had him so much in my company to read a Letter or any tittle to him L. C. J. I will tell you Gentlemen what he says Mr. Dangerfield swears he carried a Letter from my Lady Powis to my Lord Castlemain and there was an answer brought back and that that answer of my Lord Castlemains was read before him and you will do well to call Mrs. Cellier in again my Lady Powis doth deny that she ever sent a Letter by him to my Lord Castlemain or any body else by him in her life or that she ever communicated any Letter to him This is apt Evidence this is the truth of it for it answers directly to what he says against my Lord Castlemain Sir Richard Barker L. C. J. What say you Sir Richard Barker can you give any account of Oates When was Mr. Oates in Town What time that you know of Sir R. B. My Lord I remember we were once upon this before your Lordship L. C. J. In 78 Sir R. B. Yes my Lord the Evidence that I gave my Lord was only this that my servants told me that Mr. Oates had been at my house It was before Whitsontide in May 78 L. C. J. Did you see him then When was it you saw him Sir R. B. My Lord I saw him after L. C. J. How long after Sir R. B. My Lord it was about the latter end of June L. C. J. He says to his own knowledg he saw him in June Att. Gen. But we have his servants here too Phillip Page and Cecily Mayo L. C. J. Do you hear Mrs Cellier was there any Letter sent by my Lord Castlemain to my Lady Powis that was read before you and Dangerfieild Mrs. Cellier No my Lord. L. C. J. Here are two witnesses my Lady says there is no such thing and Mrs. Cellier says it Prisoner There is another thing that is The teaching the Scholars at St. Omers that I taught the Scholars their Lessons Turner Sollic Gen. Pray inform my Lord and the Jury what time it was you saw Mr. Dangerfield at my Lord Castlemains L. C. J. What Month can you charge your self to say you saw Dangerfield in my Lord Castlemains company Turner I can't say just the time L. C. J. Might it be August Turner I can't well tell I think it might be about July J. Raymond Why do you think so L. C. J. You are not asked to accuse your self in any thing but when you saw them together Turner I was coming down stairs my Lord. J. Raymond You don't tell when it was L. C. J. Tell us whether you can tell or no If you are doubtful say you are doubtful but speak the truth Turner I can't be positive L. C. J. It might be in June or July or August but you think July Turner Yes Sir Sir F. W. The sooner it is after that the Evidence is the better against it Att. Gen. Madam I think your Ladiship says you never sent a Letter by Dangerfield Lady Powis Yes Sir Att. Gen Nor did you never receive any Notes from him Lady Powis I have received some Notes from Mrs. Cellier which were his Writing L. C. J. But did you ever receive a Letter from my Lord Castlemain Lady Powis Never my Lord. Woodman J. Raymond What do you say Mr. Atturney Att. Gen Heark you Woodman were you sent with any Letter Woodman To whom Att. General To my Lord Castlemain or any body Woodman I was sent with one Letter it was Mrs. Celliers my Lord. L. C. J. To whom Woodman To my Lord Castlemain as I remember my Lord I took it from Mrs. Celliers Daughter Att. Gen. Did you ever receive any money of my Lord Castlemain Woodman Yes my Lord. L. C. J. What was it How much was it Woodman About Three Pounds or Thirty Shillings I believe L. C. J. How do you believe it Woodman To the best of my thoughts it was Att. Gen. Was it for Dangerfield Woodman My Lord I don't know that L. C. J. Have you any more Solic Gen. My Lord I have this to say to prove Dr. Oates was in London in April 78. L. C. J. He doth not deny but he might be here too Prisoner I don't dispute it my Lord I have only this one word more It is not of Treason but it is against my Reputation because this man before your Lordship I think hath accused me of it and I think my Lord I shall give you very good satisfction that is that the boys that came from St. Omers were not instructed and taught by me Now if you please my Lord to give me leave to shew it I have done Look my Lord the thing that I can say is this Mr. Littcott J. Raymond You see he said it was morally impossible Prisoner Pray my Lords J. Raymond I will undertake you will say it is time lost L. C. J. I would stay some time to observe to the Jury what I have taken notice of with all my heart but I should be gone Prisoner I have done my Lord I would not say any thing to disgust any body L. C. J. Gentlemen of the Jury I will deliver my Observations in this Cause as I would in any Cause to the best of my Understanding and will make those Observations that are as Natural as I know how to do and proper for you to take notice of It is in vain to dispute what my Lord stands indicted of It is for attempting to murder the King and change our Government and our Religion To prove this there hath been Two Witnesses only that are material and that is Mr. Oates in the first place and Mr. Oates his Evidence the Sum of it is to be reduced L. C. J. Mr. Atturney do you stand up to speak any thing Att. Gen. If your Lordship pleases we will Sum up the Evidence for the King not to offend your Lordship L. C. J. If you would be short Mr. Atturney we would not hinder you of any thing Att. Gen. I 'll be very short If it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury My Lord Castlemain is here charged with High Treason The proof that we have against him is by two Witnesses that is Dr. Oates and Mr. Dangerfield
it please you my Lord and you Gentlemen of the Jury the Prisoner at the Bar stands Indicted for High Treason for that he intended to disturb the Peace within this Kingdom establish'd and to destroy and alter the Government and to bring the King to Death and Final Destruction and to alter our Religion to the superstition of the Church of Rome did on the Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord the King consult and treat with several other Persons and that he with these Persons did agree to destroy the King and alter the Religion and cause Rebellion and further to accomplish these Treasons he did promise and agree to pay several Accompts and deposite several Sums of Money and did likewise write and publish several Books To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty If we prove these things you are to find him Guilty Att. Gen. May it please your Lordship my Lord Castlemain here stands Indicted for High Treason that is for Designing to Murther the King and alter the Government and Law and this is but a parcel of the Plot which hath been carrying on a great while and many persons tried for it and some have suffer'd and been executed for it And my Lord we will give your Lordship Evidence This my Lord Castlemain hath at several times conspired the Death of the King and that he hath reproved persons for not doing it And my Lord he hath been in Consults among Jesuits where these Matters have been carried on and this whole Design hath been negotiated And my Lord Castlemain hath been consenting and agreeing to all these Matters And my Lord when the Trials were in hand it did appear upon those Trials there were many persons brought from St. Omers to be Witnesses against Dr. Oates to prove he was not in England at that time when he said in his Depositions that he did consult with the Jesuits and these persons my Lord Castlemain had the management and instruction of at that time And all along at the Old Baily my Lord Castlemain was present there and did countenance these persons and was an Intercessor for them These are but Branches and Circumstances what is material we will prove by Witnesses Art Gen. Come Doctor Oates Pray tell what you know Prisoner My Lord I have a long time wished for this day and your Lordship may very well remember it The reason why I have so much desired a Trial is because I thought it a means and the best means and the only means to shew to the World my Innocency and also to shew to the World how much I have been calumniated by this Charge L. C. J. What have you to say Have you any thing to say against Doctor Oates Prisoner No my Lord. I only say this here I am a Prisoner at the Bar and I have pleaded not Guilty and throw my self upon this Court and therefore I am very willing to hear what this man will say D. Oates My Lord I humbly move the Court Whether or no I may use my own Method L. C. J. Give your Charge we direct nothing D. Oates My Lord In the year 1677 I was sent ever into Spain by the Jesuits that were here in England where I remained for several months and transacted Business for them and my Lord I returned from Spain in November and brought several Letters from some English Fathers there among which there was one directed for my Lord Castlemain My Lord I did not deliver the Letter to him but my Lord the Contents of the Letter were to this effect L. C. J. How came you to see the Contents D. Oates My Lord I was at the writing of the Letter and so I did see the Contents of it L. C. J. Did the Priests shew it to you Or did you only see it yourself D. Oates No my Lord It was shewn me by them And the Contents of this Letter were That the Fathers in Spain were very zealous to concur with the Fathers here in England in the Design which was the Subversion of the Government altering the Religion and the Destruction of the King L. C. J. Was that in the Letter D. Oates No my Lord not in words at length L. C. J. What was as far as you know the very Expression of the Letter D. Oates The word Design my Lord. L. C. J. Only that to promote the Design D. Oates Yes my Lord And under that word we did comprehend all those things that is as we usually took it among one another L. C. J. Did you deliver this Letter to my Lord Castlemain D. Oates No my Lord I did not deliver this Letter but when I went to St. Omers we received an Account from my Lord Castlemain of his receipt of this Letter L. C. J. What did you do with it D. Oates I left it with the Provincial my Lord who was then Mr. Strange L. C. J. Was it not given to you to give it him D. Oates It was given me to give the Lord Castlemain but being then a stranger to him I was willing to send one of his own Messengers with it L. C. J. Where was my Lord D. Oates I can't tell my Lord I did not see him then I went over to St. Omers in December 77 or the latter end of November L. C. J. Where were you when you gave this Letter to the Provincial D. Oates I was in London my Lord. L. C. J. Where did you receive this Letter D. Oates In Spain My Lord at Valledolid of one Armstrong L. C. J. Who was it directed to D. Oates To my Lord Castlemain but I did not then know him and so I gave it the Provincial my Lord I went over to St. Omers in the latter end of November or the beginning of December 77 and after I had been there some few days there did arrive a Packquet from London to St. Omers in which there was a Letter from my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. To whom D. Oates To the Fathers of the Society of St. Omers in which my Lord Castlemain gave them an Account of a Letter that he had lately received from Spain L. C. J. How did you know the Contents of this Letter D. Oates My Lord I was Privy to their Letters L. C. J. Was you acquainted with my Lord Castlemains hand D. Oates My Lord I will give you an Account of that I did not know it then but only as it was generally said among us L. C. J. How was it subscribed D. Oates Castlemain My Lord and sometimes my Lord he subscribed himself Palmer L. C. J. How many Letters have you seen D. Oates Several Letters L. C. J. Was this the first D. Oates This was the first as near as I can remember And my Lord he gave an Account in that Letter that he had received a Letter from Spain and was glad the Fathers in Spain had so good an Opinion of his Integrity in the Caused L. C. J. Did