doth cease nay he says that in War Inter Arma silent Leges Now my Lords these are as highly said as any thing you have heard by me and yet certainly is no subverting of the Fundamental Laws for all that and therefore if a man must be judged he must not be judged by pieces but by all together My Lords Whatsoever I said at Council-Board was led in by this Case what a King should do in case of a Foreign Invasion of an Enemy when the ordinary wayes and means of levying Money would not come in seasonably to prevent mischief for what a King may do in case of absolute necessity certainly in these cases the ordinary Rules do not take place as this was the Case that let in the Discourse so I most humbly beseech your Lordships for it is fully proved to remember what was the conclusion of that Discourse which was That after the present occasion provided for the King was obliged in Honor and Justice to vindicate and free the Liberty of the Subject from all prejudice and harm it might sustain in that extraordinary occasion and that this was to be done by a Parliament and no other way but a Parliament and the King and his People could never be happy till the Prerogative of the Crown and the Liberty of the Subject were so bounded and known that they might goe hand in hand together mutually to the assistance of one another My Lords give me that which precedes and that which follows both being proved to be the Case in these words in the Charge I think considering these two I should be far from having committed any great crime or offence in saying these words But I say as I said before I shall be more wary for the time hereafter if it please God to give me that Grace and Life which I submit to him and shall readily and willingly resign to his good Will and Pleasure I conceive therefore that as these words are accompanied they be not words that do amount to Treason and are so qualifyed and so weakly proved that I trust they shall not stick with your Lordships The next words that I am charged withal in England be on the 25th Article and that is that I should say that the Aldermen that would not give in the names of the able men of the City deserved to be put to Fine and Ransome and that no good would be done with them till an example were made of them and they were laid by the heels and some of the Aldermen hanged up In the first part of the Article there is something concerning my advice for raising the Money but it is not proved that I did any thing therein but as others did and as in former years had been done before my coming into the Kingdom For the words that they deserved Fine and Ransome I confess them in my Answer just in the same manner as my Lord of Berkshire was pleased to testify them the other day that is That if they should not do the thing desired they might in my opinion be liable to Fine and Ransome And my Lords admit I were mistaken in my opinion shall it be a Treason to be mistaken I say in my opinion they might be lyable to Fine and Ransome but what is this to Treason Under favour nothing at all as I conceive For the other part that it would never be well till some of the Aldermen be hanged it proves to be testified by Mr. Alderman Garroway and he owns it only for himself for it was not that some of the Aldermen should be hanged but he said at the Bar till he himself were hanged My Lords This is a single Testimony and these words as he says were by me spoken to the King at the Council-Board That it would never be well till some of them were hanged meaning himself truly my Lords I thank God I never spake such unmannerly Language all the dayes of my life I have had more regard to my words than to say such things to my Master and your Lordships must needs be many of you by and I am very confident there is not one among you that can remember any such words were spoke for in good faith I did not speak them And my Lords before this misfortune did befall me I should with modesty have thought my self a person on equal terms to have been believed as well as Mr. Garraway and I speak it with as great confidence as he that I never spake the words My Lords The next is the 26th Article and that is that I should say the City of London dealt undutifully with the King and they were more ready to help the Rebels than to help His Majesty and if any hurt came to them they might thank themselves My Lords I am in the first part of this Article charged to have counselled and approved two dangerous and wicked Projects the one concerning the stay of the Bullion in the Tower the other concernin Copper-coyn and no proof hath been offered that I either compelled or approved either of those two Projects And my Lords it is proved to your Lordships that when the Merchants came I told them I knew nothing of the business as to the Bullion neither indeed did I ever know there was any Bullion nor any thing of that nature in the Tower But for the words I conceive it had been no Treason for me to think at that time that the Londoners had dealt unthankfully with His Majesty I thought I might have said it freely without danger of such a thought as might conduce to the convicting me of Treason But whatsoever I then thought or on what grounds soever it may be remembred that then I alledged and now I speak it when news was brought to York that the City had sent the King Two hundred thousand pounds I took notice that notwithstanding all I had thought formerly they nad now made such recompence and so cleared their Faith and Duty to the King that I should be their servant and lay my hand under their feet as those that heard me are able to speak for though at first I said they had dealt unthanfully with the King yet afterwards I was ready and willing upon all occasions to testify the contrary of them and to profess that I was ready to serve them upon all occasions just and honest and honourable As for my saying that they were readier to help the Rebels than the King In truth I am a man that cannot justify a thing I do not approve I must needs say it was an unadvised Speech and I wish I had not spoke it it seems I did speak it for I have reason to believe honest men when they Swear though in truth I remember it not but I have no reason or cause to think they would take an Oath otherwise then truth I have no exception to the Men and therefore upon their words I must Credit them before my own memory but it
believes to be true having been formerly so informed by His Majesties Learned Council upon sundry occasions To the Fourth he saith That the legal and ordinary Proceedings at Council-Table are and time out of mind have been by Petition Answers examination of Witnesses as in other Courts of Justice concerning British Plantations the Church and Cases hence recommended by the King for the time being and in Appeals from other Courts there and the Council-Board have always punished Contempts to Orders there made to Proclamations and Acts of State by Fine and Imprisonment He saith That it might be he told the Earl of Cork that he would imprison him if he disobeyed the Orders of the Council-Table and that he would not have Lawyers dispute or question those Orders and that they should bind but remembreth not the Comparison of Acts of Parliament and he hath been so far from scorning the Laws that he hath endeavoured to maintain them the Suit against the Earl in the Castle-Chamber was concerning the Possessions of the Colledge of Youghall worth 6 or 700 l. which he had endeavoured to get by causing of unlawful Oaths to be taken and very undue means the matter proceeded to Examination and Publication of Witnesses and after upon the Earl of Cork's humble Suit and payment of 15000 l. to His Majesty and his acknowledgement of his Misdemeanors obtained a Pardon and the Bill and Proceedings were taken of the Files and he remembers not any Suit for breach of any Order made at Council-Table To the Fifth he saith The Deputies and Generals of the Army have always executed Martial Law which is necessary there and the Army and the Members thereof have been long time Governed by printed Orders according to which divers by Sentence of the Council of War have formerly been put to death as well in the time of Peace as War The Lord Mountnorris being a Captain of a Company in the Army for mutinous words against the said Earl General of that Army and upon two of those ancient Orders was proceeded against by a Council of War being the Principal Officers of the Army about twenty in number and by them upon clear Evidence sentenced to Death wherein the said Earl was no Judge but laboured so effectually with His Majesty that he obtained the Lord Mountnorris's Pardon who by that Sentence suffered no personal hurt or damage save about two days Imprisonment And as to the other Persons he can make no Answer thereunto no particulars being described To the Sixth he saith The Suit had depended many years in Chancery and the Plaintiff Complaining of that delay the said Earl upon a Petition as in such Cases hath been usual calling to him the then Master of the Rolls the now Lord Chancellor and the Chief Justice of the Common Pleas upon the Proofs in the Chancery decreed for the Plantiff to which he refers himself and it may be the Lord Mountnorris was thereupon put out of his Possession To the Seventh he saith His Majesty being Intituled to divers Lands upon an Inquisition found Proclamation was made That such as Claimed by Patent should come in by a day and have their Patents allowed as if they had been found in the Inquisition and accordingly divers were allowed The Lord Dillon produced His Patent which being questionable he consented and desired that a Case might be drawn which was drawn by Counsel and argued and the Judges delivered their Opinions but the Lord Dillon nor any other were bound thereby or put out of Possession but might have traversed the Office or otherwise legally have proceeded that Case or Opinion notwithstanding To the Eighth he saith That upon Sir Iohn Gifford's Petition to the King His Majesty referred it to the Deputy and Council of Ireland where the matter proceeding legally to a Decree against the Lord Loftus and upon his Appeal that Decree by His Majesty and His Council of England was confirmed to which Decree and Order he refers himself believing the Lord Loftus was committed for disobeying that Decree and for continuance in contempt committed close Prisoner He saith That the Lord Loftus having committed divers Contempts the Council by Warrant required him to appear at the Board and to bring the Great Seal with him which Order he disobeyed and was shortly after Committed and the Great Seal was delivered up by His Majesties express Command and not otherwise And an Information was exhibited in the Star-Chamber for grievous Oppressions done by the Lord Loftus as Chancellor whereof he was so far from justifying as that he submitted desiring to be an Object of His Majesties Mercy and not of His Justice The Earl of Kildare for not performing of an Award made by King Iames and of an Award made in pursuance thereof by the said Earl of Strafford upon a Reference from His Majesty was by the Deputy and Council Committed and a Letter being unduly obtained he did not thereupon enlarge him but upon another Letter and submission to the Orders as by the King was directed he was enlarged The Lady Hibbots and one Hoy her Son having upon a Petition Answer Examination of Witnesses and other Proceedings at Council-Board been found to have committed foul abuses by Fraud and Circumvention to have made a Bargain with the Petitioner Hibbots for Lands of a great value for a small sum of Money was Ordered to deliver up the Writing no Assurances being perfected or Money paid and it 's like he threatned her with Commitment if she obeyed not that Order but denieth that the Lands were after sold to Sir Robert Meredith to his use or that by any Order by himself made any one hath been Imprisoned concerning Freeholds but for debts and personal things as some have been used by all his Predecessors in like Causes To the Ninth he saith Warrants to such Effects have been usually granted to the Bishops in Ireland in the times of all former Deputies but the Earl not satisfied with the conveniency thereof refused to give any such Warrants in general to the Bishops as had been formerly done but being informed that divers in the Diocess of Down gave not fitting Obedience he granted a Warrant to that Bishop whereto he referreth which was the only Warrant he granted of that Nature and hearing of some Complaints of the Execution thereof he recalled it To the Tenth he saith The Lord Treasurer Portland offered the Farm of the Customs for 13000 l. per annum in some particular Species but the Earl of Strafford advanced the same Customs to 15500 l. per annum and 8000 l. Fine and by His Majesties Command became a Farmer at those Rates proposed without addition to those Rates as by the printed Books 7 Car. Regis may appear he disswaded the advance of Rates lately proposed by Sir Abraham Dawes so as it was declined the Rates of Hydes and Wooll are moderate consideration being had of their true value and of the Places whereto they are
I conceiving not material as to the Charge forbore to answer to them whereby I understand I have received some prejudice therefore I desire I may now give satisfaction therein being well able to do it We hope your Lordships remember your own Order We desire he may not have that allowed him to day which was not granted him Yesterday The Evidence having been given for His Majesty my Lord of Strafford having answered and the Commons Replied Touching which the Lord Steward declared that the due Course had been followed The Evidence being given for the King my Lord having Answered and a Reply made My Lord this is a Court of Honour which is a Rule to it self and no other Court is a Rule to it and therefore if any thing were omitted one day through want of memory your Lordships may in your Nobleness allow another Your Lordships being your own Judges and Rule and most fit it should be so I do therefore beseech your Lordships that I may have liberty to offer new matter formerly omitted else I shall be on great disadvantage being to answer on a suddain and had no time till Friday last to bring in Witnesses and many perhaps may come up before my Trial ends We desire in the Name of the Commons of England we may proceed according to the Rule propounded that his Lordship may not invert the course on pretence of new matter for then it will be impossible for us to make good the Charge Which was accordingly Resolved adding further that there hath been ostentation of more Evidence We desire it may make no Impression with your Lordships We shall open the Third Article containing very seditious words spoken by my Lord of Strafford in a publick Assembly to the Kings Subjects That Ireland is a Conquer'd Nation That the King may do with them what he pleaseth And speaking of the Charters of Dublin He said The Charters are nothing worth and binding the King no farther than he pleases I humbly desire My Lords that the Witnesses may stand in another Room from the Committee it being not usual in other Courts though I dare not offer any Court to be a Rule to this and that your Lordship will direct the question We have been sensible his Lordship hath been large in his Imputations We shall behave our selves as becomes us in duty we speak nothing to the Witnesses but what any man may hear and we must tell them what they must speak to and less we cannot do I am the loathest man in the World to speak any thing that may give offence in general or particular neither did I charge any only desired that they might stand clear and that the question might come immediately to them from your Lordship Robert Kennyday produced and sworn I humbly offer to your Lordships That this Witness hath been questioned for many Misdemeanors and extortion in execution of his Place as Remembrancer of the Exchequer and for this was sentenced and that he knew he wished his Lordship no great good and left it to their Lordships Whether he be a fit Witness adding it to be his Misfortune That all that have suffered under the Kings Justice in his Ministry are ready to be Witnesses against him My Lords if he be guilty of Extortion it follows not that he is therefore guilty of Perjury neither doth any thing stand proved But if he hath taken a sum of Money that makes him not to be believed when he gives Testimony Robert Kennyday being examined what words my Lord of Strafford spake in Dublin of Ireland Whether it was a Conquer'd Nation and what he said of the Charters of Dublin and when He Answered That 30. of September 1633. he was the Kings Remembrancer in Ireland and that day the new Mayor of Dublin was presented to my Lord. The Recorder of the City making a Speech touching the Presentment of the Mayor cited many of the Favors and Graces of the Kings and Queens of England and among the rest one Charter wherein he alledged was contained That no Lieutenant Deputy or Governor for the time being or any Justice or Justices could assess or lay any Souldiers on the City of Dublin without their consent That after the Recorder had made an end of Speaking my Lord Lieutenant was pleased to Answer him in many Particulars Among the rest he told them You are a Conquer'd Nation and the King may do to you what he pleases and for your antiquated Charters they bind nothing farther then pleases Him The Witness added some things to take off the Aspertions cast on him by his Lordship saying He was never brought to Censure Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's Motion Whether he said they were not void by misusage or the like He answered No truly Not a word that he heard Richard Earl of Corke produced and sworn I must profess My Lords my sorrow and unwillingness to speak my Exceptions to the Earl of Cork as conceiving him no competent Witness in respect of an Information exhibited against him in the Castle-Chamber by the King's Attorney there which I desire may be read and is I will not say in all the points of it but so far acknowledged that he confesses himself under his Hand and Seal to be in the mercy of the King and desires he may be made the Object of his Majesties Compassion not of His Justice And when your Lordships shall see the nature of it I Appeal to your Lordships Whether my Lord of Cork shall be admitted as a Witness against me especially he being a little displeased and I am sorry for it for something done in the Cause he giving 15000 l. for a Composition which the King had There are two grounds of my Lord of Straffords Exception to the Earl of Corke's Testimony as I conceive First His Censure or questioning upon the Information against him in the Castle-Chamber which we have heard to be much of the nature of the Star-Chamber here And that part we suppose was cleared by Your Lordships wisdom yesterday That not a Censure much less an Information in the Star-Chamber should be a fit Exception against a Witness The other part is the ill will which my Lord of Corke may bear my Lord of Strafford on that occasion Truly My Lords if ill will and offence against my Lord of Strafford should be an exception and prejudice to a Witness I am afraid there will be few in the three Kingdoms whose Testimonials will not be prejudiced But this I humbly offer to Your Lordships likewise My Lord of Corke is a Privy Councellor to His Majesty and made a Privy Councellor since by His Majesty and certainly it is not seemly to have that Reproach cast on such a Person That for a Prosecution in the Star-Chamber he should be made an uncompetent Witness The reading of the Information being hereupon denied My Lord of Corke was asked What words
who lived in those famous times and spent their blood in Obedience to their Soveraigns Command So that by these words candidly and rightly taken no manner of ill could come being spoken not with any sharpness or upbraiding but meerly to let them see That being in that Condition they were infinitely bound to the Kings of England who were pleased to communicate to them the Laws of their own Kingdom And so far were they from being taken ill that no man at that time took offence at them For the words The King might do with them what he pleased let them relate to the Conquest and there is no offence in them for the Conqueror might give them what Laws he pleased and yet nevertheless hath been so gracious and good as to give them the Laws of his own People Give me that understanding of the words and then where is the Crime how can it be brought in Judgment against me in it self or be aggravated to High Treason I acknowledge I did speak to the Recorder of Dublin yet some things I am put in mind of which I am forced to deny with a great asseveration That I do not remember the words nay I am sure I never spake them let all the world and a cloud of Witnesses say the contrary when I know in my own heart I did not speak them though I offer not this to Your Lordships to convince your Judgments And on the other side there is nothing that is true but I will acknowledge it with all Ingenuity in the world on the Testimony of any one single Witness I desire that Mr. Slingsby his Servant might be asked whether he was not present when I spake these words and whether then any offence was taken at me in respect of the high manner of my speaking or whether they were not rather extreamly well satisfied Now if Your Lordships take words in pieces and not altogether any man living may be convinced but taking my words altogether though something might be thought harsh yet something gave abundant satisfaction I am upon a mighty prejudice in being denied to have my Witnesses examined upon Oath in these things that are not Treason But they be persons of good credit and I trust your Lordships will believe them as much as if they spake on Oath since I think none of them would say a word to your Lordships which they would not swear Mr. Slingsby being asked Whether he was present when my Lord of Strafford spake to the Recorder of Dublin what he said and what acceptance it received He Answered He was then present being on the occasion of presenting Sir Robert Dixton the Mayor of Dublin that he cannot remember the particular words nor deliver them to their Lordships as they were spoken by the Lord-Lieutenant But he remembers particularly the scope of the Discourse was to ingratiate His Majesties present Government to them That the words were well accepted by several persons whom he spake with and took that Effect that his Lordship was thereupon invited to the Mayors House where divers of the City Congratulated his coming to them I shall now proceed to the second part of the words That their Charters were nothing worth and they bind the King no farther than he pleases and I conceive I may say so still If their Charters be nothing worth they do not bind the King but he may do with them what he pleases In that I desire your Lordships to call to mind what my Lord of Corke said That Ireland was a Conquer'd Nation and the King might give them what Laws he pleased and that the Charters were Antiquated and no farther good than it pleased His Majesty to make them It is likely I confess I might say so and yet not say amiss for it is most evident and clear their Charters are void in point of Law and therefore it is in the King 's good will and pleasure Whether he will make them good or no. And that they were void the King's Council informed me so that they were questioned at Council-Board upon it for divers unlawful Exactions they took under colour of Charters for divers by-Laws that they had made against Law by those Charters for divers neglects of Duties that they ought to do by those Charters and generally for not performing the trust reposed in them by those Charters with that Integrity and Care they ought to do And for the truth of it that many Complaints were made against the Mayor and Aldermen at that Board for neglecting their Duty I dare Appeal to my Lord of Corke I adding this That the greatest part of the Aldermen were Recusants and would never be brought to obey the Order of the Board but stood on their Charters and would be Masters and by that means great Disorders continued And to prove that upon Examination they appeared to be void in Law I desire Sir George Ratcliffe may be admitted to speak on what Grounds those Charters were called in and are now as I think deposited with the Clerk of the Council Sir George Ratcliffe standing charged with High Treason by the Commons of England before your Lordships and of a Conspiracy with my Lord of Strafford and whether it be fit to hear one charged with High-Treason to clear another so charged we Appeal to your Lordships That Sir George Ratcliffe is charged to be a Conspirator with me indeed and in truth I must confess Sir George Ratcliffe and my self under favour are equally guilty of Treason and I hope we shall both justifie our selves but I know so much of him that I am not ashamed to say That I think that Sir George Ratcliffe is my Friend and I wish him well and so I think will all other men I trust in God when they hear him But I conceive Sir George Ratcliffe might be heard in these Points if he be examined as a Witness against me I desire he may be examined as a Witness for me Sir George Ratcliffe is not examined nor at all sworn in the Cause on our Motion and admitted that if they produced him as a Witness they would not deny my Lord of Strafford to cross examine him The Lord Steward declared the sense of their Lordships That Sir George Ratcliffe could not be examined I shall readily obey but yet observe That if it were only matter of Misdemeanor he might be examined though charged But this is my unhappiness to be debarred of my Witnesses because I am charged with Treason in general though there be nothing in particular that 's near the complexion of Treason We desire to observe that this justifies a part of our Charge for the Charter of the Subjects Liberties are as his Lordship confesseth brought to the Council Table and judged there and not to the proper Courts where they ought to be judged the Council-Table having no Power to declare the Validity or Invalidity of Charters from the King to the Subject
I said at that time tended to that purpose to shew and set forth to them the excellent Goodness of His Majesty and the Graciousness of His Government Therefore if I should say any thing to the purpose as it is offered I should go much against the purpose for which I intended my Discourse For me to have said openly there in the King's Chair that they were a Conquer'd Nation and must expect Laws from Him as from a Conqueror when I knew it most false and expected from His Majesty that He would Govern them by the same righteous Rules of Justice and Honour as his Predecessors had before him I had been much too blame and it had been against the drift of my Discourse And I must say and will say to the death I never spake such words That they must expect Laws from Him as from a Conqueror I know very well how it is proved and what my own affirmation doth in foro Iudicii but how it may work in foro Conscientiae I trust I have so much credit left in the World as to be known to be a man of truth and not usually to speak untruths And I take the heavenly God to Witness that I never spake them I remember the words and the occasion by a good token without which I should not have remembred them my Friends desiring a Copy of my Speech which Copy is in Ireland and were it here would satisfie every man It was to incline them to take into consideration the great Debt that lay on the Crown being near 100000 l. the shortness of the Revenue which was then short of the yearly Charge 24000 l. though the first day it was stood upon and would have been coloured over as if there had been no such thing I was to move thereunto a supply to pay the Debt and to improve the Revenue to such a height as might answer the Charge of the Kingdom that to induce this I told them the Kingdom of England had expended great and vast Sums of Money and had issued a great deal of Noble blood for the reducing of them to Obedience and in that happy State wherein they then lived That they must not think the Kingdom of England must always bear the Charge of the Crown but they must so fit the business that the Kingdom may bear its own Charge For said I and these are the words I take God Almighty to Witness and no other If the Kingdom of England should still be put to their Charges and the whole Expence should still rest on the Conqueror you might very well think you are so dealt withall as never any other Conquer'd Nation had been That on these words my Lord of Ormond came to me and told me That the words he had spoken were not well taken For that I had said The Irish are a Conquer'd Nation and that is not well I answered his Lordship Truly my Lord you are a Conquer'd Nation but you see how I speak it and no otherwise But this I am not charged with and offer it only to keep and preserve me in a good Opinion as much as I can of both Houses of Parliament which I desire of all things under Heaven next the Favour of Almighty God and his Gracious Majesty He then proceeded to examine Witnesses And first Robert Lord Dillom being asked Whether he was present when he spake these words to both Houses of Parliament and what they were We desire to put your Lordships in mind that there were two times when my Lord spake such words one when he spake to hoth Houses of Parliament at the Publick Speeeh now mentioned the other upon delivering a Petition by the House of Commons That the words which the Commons Charge were the last mentioned by me not the first and that was desired to be observed The Question being repeated The Lord Dillom Answered That he served as a Member of the Commons House that Parliament and in respect of the Honour he had to be of the King's Council and the Son of a Peer of the Realm he stood under the Cloath of State and was present when my Lord made his Speech to both Houses for that passage of the Conquest some touch there was of it and he hath heard my Lord of Ormond speak in particular of it For the other words That they should expect Laws as from a Conqueror he took God to witness he did not remember them Being asked whether he remembers them to be spoken at any other time He answered That on his Soul he doth not Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same purpose He Answered That he was the first and the last day at the Parliament that he doth not well remember the middle day and he cannot burden his memory with any such words spoken that he heard either then or at any other time Sir Robert King was called and asked to the same purpose He Answered That he thinks he was present that day but not within hearing and he never heard the words at any other time Lord Renula being asked Whether then or at any time he heard my Lord of Strafford say They must expect Laws from the King as from a Conqueror He Answered That he was then in the House and remembers the words in the first place That Ireland was a Conquer'd Nation that for the words in the second place something was spoken but how far he cannot witness Sir George Wentworth questioned on the same Point Answered That he sate under the Chair of State at that time and remembers not that my Lord ever spake these words That the King might do with them as he pleased That it pleased my Lord-Lieutenant to send him into England at that time to attend His Majesty with the Success of that Parliament and that he brought the Speech with him and can confidently affirm There was no such thing in the Speech and the Speech he did deliver to some Privy-Counsellor and added That he never heard my Lord publickly or privately say those words They must expect Laws from the King as from a Conqueror We desire to know Whether the Witness was returned out of England when this Remonstrance was delivered For the Commons Charge it thus That the House of Commons delivered a Petition to have the Laws executed according to the Instructions upon which the words were spoken and we believe Sir George Wentworth was not come back and then it was impossible he should hear him for it was after the Parliament had sate and some proceedings had I observe How it is in some of the Witnesses for my Lord Gorminstone fixed it on the first beginning of the Parliament He spake it to the occasion of the Petition but the distinct time he doth not remember Sir George Wentworth being asked touching the time of his going into England He desired to know what time the Petition was delivered but he went over some few days after the Subsidies were granted
Lord Robert Digby being asked Whether at the Parliament at Dablin or any other time he ever heard my Lord of Strafford speak those words He Answered That he never did that he doth not know whether he was present at that time or no that he did diligently wait but doth not remember the words nor occasion but he thinks he was not present Your Lordships have heard my Lord of Strafford's Defence with much patience That he hath said nothing that takes off the Charge but some things that aggravate it That he would answer the Particulars as his Lordship had propounded them And first he observed That his Lordship denies not the words Charged which makes greater way for proof of them He informs of the ill Fortune of other Governors that one was Attainted and the Informations afterwards retracted that my Lord of Faulkland was complained of yet a Noble and good Governor against whom or any Deputy we can say nothing But what is this for my Lord Strafford to say Others were questioned therefore he is Innocent These were complaints of particular men This against my Lord of Strafford is the complaint of all the Commons of England It is said here is no Treason in this Article no Argument of Treason but the Commons never pressed these words singly and dividedly to be Treason but take all together they discover that Disposition that Counsel that Resolution that my Lord of Strafford had taken on him the ruine and subversion of the Common Law in both Kingdoms It is said an Answer is put in and no Replication It is true in other Courts if you go on Bill and Answer the Answer is taken pro Confesso but the Commons desire not to bind up my Lord of Strafford with Formalities but by the substance of their Charge they have averred their Charge which is as much as a denial of his Answer To there being another Government in Ireland than in England my Lord himself spoke of it by himself but he thinks it will not be material to this purpose for whatsoever it is some Government there is but the Speech of my Lord tends to take away all Laws for they must expect Laws as from a Conqueror in that Limitation For his referring it to the time taking it in the sense that the then Conqueror might do what he pleased that 's true and justifiable But that is to suppose the words otherwise than they are being spoken not of the Kings that were before but of His Majesty that now is My Lord would make an Argument his words were well accepted because Mr. Slingsby heard nothing to the contrary the words had much Acrimony and Sharpness and we dare not believe the Mayor of Dublin durst tell my Lord of Strafford so or forbear any Complement to him though he had been displeased with him But if that be material the Witnesses that have proved the words will tell Your Lordships it was resented with a great deal of Grief and Sorrow in all the hearers His Lordship justifies what was spoken of the Charters on these grounds First That the Witness said they were Antiquated Charters and therefore did not bind whereas it was a scornful Epithite their Antiquated and Worm-eaten Charters did not bind It is said they were void through negligences questioned at Council-Table complained of in Parliament But they must take the words to pieces not altogether Had he spoken of the Charters alone that they were void Charters it were no crime no indiscretion But take it with the occasion and connexion it admits of no such mitigation or interpretation He tells them they are a conquered Nation and they must expect Laws as from a Conqueror And they are a conquered Nation and their Charters are no further good than the King pleases It is said It is strict to answer presently what may be objected and the Examinations are extrajudicial we doubt not but Your Lordships will justifie-our Proceedings nor is there any strictness in them for if a man be questioned of a Crime and several Evidences be brought to make up this Crime some concurrent some precedent they will be allowed of in other Courts It being never used to set forth in a Charge all circumstances of Proof The main is produced and this is an Evidence to prove that and it is within the Charge for there is a Charge that he corrupts the Laws and Government Then my Lord produces divers Witnesses who speak in a different sense Sir Robert King heard nothing another that he remembers nothing and if he remembers nothing it may as well be said of the rest That there might be something they did not hear or remember for they speak no more but they did not remember There may be something they forgot as well as another forget all My Lord Ranulagh says He remembers the first words and something as spoken of the second but he cannot tell how far So that there is rather a doubt that something was spoken to that purpose than otherwise The Lord Digby was not present Sir George Wentworth remembers not the words he hath a Copy of the Speech and is confident the words were not spoken But they were not spoken in the first Speech whereof there was a Copy when the Petition for the Laws was delivered And this is an Aggravation against my Lord of Strafford that by his own shewing there was an Exception taken when he spoke in a milder sense and to advance His Majesties Government it had an ill impression and was taken notice of and the Exception delivered to himself Now if after Exception taken to a Speech delivered in Parliament cloathed with so much mildness he in the same Parliament as soon as Subsidies are granted shall tell them they are a conquered Nation and shall not have Graces but such Laws as the King will give them This puts the Offence in higher terms than before so far are they from mitigation of the Offence We desire Witnesses may be heard concerning the circumstance of time Mr. Fitzgarret produced and Sworn Was asked whether he knew of a Petition delivered to the Earl of Strafford by the Commons concerning the Laws and how in time it followed the publick Speech at the beginning of the Parliament and what Answer was given to it He Answered That he was then a Member of the Commons House and present when the Petition was delivered But after the House of Commons had given the King six Subsidies the House of Commons entred into consideration of Petitioning for such things as were necessary and expedient for the Common-wealth as they thought this Petition was preferred to the Lord Deputy a good space of time after the Subsidies were granted and Advertisement sent to England of the good service done in obtaining those Subsidies from the House of Commons That he remembers not any part of the Answer given There was an Answer given in Writing either at Council-Table or in full Parliament from the House of
Lords but that he spake only to the point of time My Lord of Strafford did here affirm it to be most certainly true That the Petition concerning the things Mr. Fitzgarret mentions was delivered at Council-Board and not in Parliament and desiring Mr. Fitzgarrets further explanation of himself He Answered That he conceives there were two Petitions one as he thinks concerning the performance of the Instructions of 1628. whereunto an Answer might be given at Council-Board and he believes it was subscribed by many of the Council There was another Petition of Grievances seeking redress of them and to whether of these his Lordship gave an Answer in Parliament he remembers not but believes there was an Answer made to both or one of them in full Parliament The Lord Gorminstone being demanded at what time and on what occasion my Lord of Strafford spake the words he was examined on before in the Parliament at Dublin He Answered A Petition was delivered to my Lord of Strafford and he spake to the House wherein he spake the words that he had formerly related That they must expect Laws as from a Conqueror and that the Instructions published for the setling of that Government were procured by a company of narrow hearted Commissioners That he did not then remember the certain time but he is sure it was in Parliament and so resented that almost all took notice of it when most part were English and British Extractions and very few Irish. The Lord Killmallock being demanded to the same purpose Answered That he conceived the occasion was a delivery of a Petition to his Lordship It is true it was not delivered in Parliament nor were the words spoken at the Council-Table where the Petition was delivered But he conceives it was on occasion of delivering that Petition that his Lordship speaks For after the Petition was delivered three or four days after his Lordship came to the Parliament House he called both Houses before him and there delivered these words That Ireland was a Conquered Nation and therefore must expect Laws as from a Conqueror Adding further That the Book of Instructions meaning the Book Printed in King Iames His Reign for the orderly Government of the Courts of Justice was contrived and procured by a company of narrow-hearted Commissioners who knew not what belonged to Government The words he said he remembers very perfectly as having great misery on his heart in the speaking And whereas it is said none did take notice of them They did but they durst not it wrought inwardly and had they spoken of it they expected no redress but a greater addition of calamity to them We shall now proceed and observe That this Article touching the Laws of Ireland gives the ground-work of what follows in the subsequent Articles concerning Ireland And first We desire Your Lordships to take into remembrance That though Ireland differ in some particular Statutes from England yet they enjoy the same Common Law without any difference That by the Statute 28 H. 6. in Ireland It is Enacted That every Cause shall be remitted to its proper Court It is true the King hath this Prerogative not to be tied to sue in the Kings-Bench but may sue in any Courts of Justice for matters Triable in the Common-Pleas or Chancery or Exchequer all Courts are open to him wherever he will have his Cause judged but with the Subject the proper Cause must go to the proper Court and according to this the exercise and use is continued in that Kingdom Some Incroachments being made King Iames of blessed memory took consideration of it he appointed Commissioners and Instructions were Printed in pursuance of this A Noble Earl now present Justice Iones Sergeant Crew and divers others were imployed in that Service These Instructions as they remit the Causes to the proper Courts so they declare that it had crept in at the Council-Table in latter times to take Oaths but direct that it shall be forborn for matters of Interest and Complaint between party and party and matters of Title And it stays not here but a Proclamation is issued to the same effect This Statute these Instructions and this Proclamation we desire may be read Accordingly the Statute was read whereby it was ordained to the Governour of the Land or other Officer for the time being He that accuses shall find sufficient sureties for the damage of him that is accused and if it shall be adjudged that the Suggestion or Accusation is not true c. And also that he that is Arrested may go by Surety or Bail till the matter be determined And if it be matter of Treason or Felony to be remitted to the Kings-Bench if Conscience to the Chancery if Franchise to the Seneschal of the Liberty if for Debt to the Common-Pleas c. saving the Kings Prerogative Then part of the Instructions were read published 1622. wherein it is Ordered That the Council-Table shall keep it self within its proper bounds Amongst which the Patents of Plantations and the Offices on which the Grants are founded are to be handled as matters of State and to be determined by the Lord Deputy and Council publickly but Titles between party and party are to be left to the ordinary course of Law and neither Lord-Deputy Governour nor Council-Table hereafter to intermeddle or trouble themselves with ordinary businesses within Cognizance of ordinary Courts nor meddle with possession of Land nor make or use private Orders Hearings or References concerning such matters nor grant Injunctions nor Orders for stay of Suits at Common Law Causes recommended from the Council of England and spiritual Causes concerning the Church excepted Then the Proclamation was read dated November 7. 1625. whereby it is commanded That the Deputy and Council-Chamber in Ireland then and from time to come shall not entertain or take consideration of any private Cause or Causes or Controversies between party and party concerning their private and particular Estates nor any Cause or Controversie of that Board which are not of that nature that do properly concern matter of State But that all Causes and Controversies of that nature moved or depending between party and party concerning private and particular Interests be proceeded in in the ordinary Courts of that Kingdom respectively to whom the Cognizance of these Causes and Controversies doth belong c. For that Objection from the Opinion of my Lord Cooke in Calvins Case if it were an Opinion to the contrary in an Argument it is no binding Authority But that Opinion is nothing at all against what hath been said for it is express That Ireland did retain the same Common Law with England It is true Ireland hath Statutes and Customs particularly retained and so there be divers particular Customs in England that differ from the Common Law yet are approved and allowed in it as in Wales and the Custom of Gavel-kind and the Common Law which is the general Government is the
after my Lords coming into Ireland and before the Parliament and was the cause of the first Exception against him the said Sir Pierce Crosby for he reasoned it with his Lordship being at his own Table at Dinner there being then present and sitting next to him a Member of this Honourable House my Lord Castlehaven There were likewise my Lord Osmond and several others of the Council of Ireland The words were these That if he lived He would make an Act of State to be of equal Power with an Act of Parliament That he the Deponent thought his Lordship spoke it merrily and answered him in the same kind saying My Lord when you go about to do this I will believe some body will rise as an English Gentleman did in England and desire a Clause of Exception that it may not reach to himself his Kindred and Friends That my Lord of Strafford looked on him very earnestly and said He would take him whosoever he was and lay him by the heels That this was in Parliament time And he the Deponent would fain have qualified it but Parliament or not Parliament says my Lord Ireland is a Conquer'd Nation and the Conqueror should give the Law That he the said Sir Pierce Crosby Replyed My Lord then I beseech you give me leave I am one of those that must uphold an Act of State by all lawful ways having the Honour to be a Member of the Government though unworthy What will be alledged on the other part they will say an Act of Parliament attaints and restores Blood and doth many things an Act of State cannot reach to for it is confined within the limits of the Government That my Lord having not to Reply to this rose in some choller and told him the Deponent of something else he conceived he the Deponent had done amiss at Council-Board on a Statute that was in debate And so the Manager concluded the Article with thus much more The Article in the conclusion of it charges him with scorning the Government and Laws And it was desired their Lorships would take notice of what is proved out of these words and the concurrent proof Yesterday The Earl of Strafford begins his Defence saying First I must stand upon the truth of my Answer which must be good till it be denied so far as goes to matter of Misdemeanor I have not had time to examine Witnesses having not liberty till Friday last which I urge by way of excuse if my Answers give not full satisfaction Here is an Order of the House of Commons there whereby your Lordships may perceive how unlikely I am to have any thing from Ireland that may work to my Justification which was read and bears Date 25. February 1640. Authorising those undernamed to go aboard any Ships and seize search and break up all Trunks Chests and Cabins aboard To seize on all Silver and Gold except small Sums and all Debts Evidences and Writings as they shall think fit of him the said Earl of Strafford This his Lordship conceived to be a great Violation of the Peerage of the Kingdom For making good of his Answer his Lordship Alledged That the Council-Board of Ireland is a Court of Record which differs much from the Council-Board of England and that they proceed there by Bill Answer Examination Publication and all the formal courses of legal Proceedings That my care to preserve the Authority of the Deputy and Council is not a Subversion of the Laws Only it directs it and puts the execution of the Law another way That for Reasons of State it must be preserved being the place of Resort for Protection and Defence of the English Planters and Protestant Clergy I shall produce and acknowledge the Instructions made 22 Iac. and I shall read part that bounds the Council-Board particulary mentioned in the Reply to the Third Charge I desire a Book may be read a Book in the hands of Mr. Denham containing certain Answers given by the Lord Chichester to certain Complaints made against that State and written with Mr. Baron Denham's own hand which on debate was Resolved not to be read being written only for a private Remembrance I shall refer to my Lord Ranulagh's Deposition the other day to satisfie your Lordships touching the Proceedings at Council Table To prove the Council-Board to be a Court of Record Robert Lord Dillom being asked Whether before my Lord Strafford's time he had not known always during his memory the Deputy and Council in all causes of Plantation and the Church proceed by Petition Answer Examination of Witnesses Publication and Hearing as in other Courts of Equity and upon Oath He Answered That he remembers in my Lord Chichester's time of Government it was the practise of the Board so to do That he remembers it in my Lord Grandison's time that he had the Honour to be called to the Council-Board under my Lord Faulkland's Government and knew it then And it was in the Justices time that preceded my Lord Strafford's Government To have Petitions Examinations of Witnesses Publication a day of hearing granted and all ordinary Proceedings Being asked Whether at that Board they have not been punished who have disobeyed Proclamations and Acts of State before my Lord Strafford's time and how long He Answered That out of his Observation at Council-Table Acts of State were made because of the scarcity of Parliaments that they might be a Supplement to Acts of Parliament that he hath known before and when he sate at the Board on contempts of these Acts of State or Proclamations which he said he had heard the Judges say to be a kind of Law of the Land for the present the Parties were Attached brought to the Board and upon full Examination of the Cause and Proof of the Contempt sometimes Imprisoned sometimes Fined according to the Delinquency and Degree of the Offence supposed to be committed Being asked of Fines in Cases between Party and Party He Answered That he doth not remember any Fine imposed in a special Cause betwixt Party and Party Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same purpose He Answered It hath ever been since his remembrance the constant Practise there in Causes of the Church and Plantation to proceed on Petition Answer c. and Fines imposed on Breakers of Publick Acts of State and Proclamations But he remembers not any Fines for Contempts in case of particular and private Interest We shall admit it to have Cognizance of matters of Plantation and Church and such as are recommended from the King to the Council here But not to be a Court of Record From these Proofs I infer That the Council-Board there hath another Constitution then here where it is only a Court of State I shall produce the Order made in my Lord of Corke's Case which I observe to be in the Case of the Church and so within the Cognizance of Deputy and Council The Order was read being signed by Sir Paul Davis
the Committee for the Commons declaring that they would make no use against him of any thing he should speak concerning himself His Lordship was thereupon Sworn and asked what my Lord of Straffords carriage was at the said Sentence not accusing himself He Answered That he was present at the Council on Summons to be there and the Council being set as a Council of War my Lord of Strafford did shew what they were called for and did set forth some Injuries he conceived done him by my Lord Mountnorris Upon that my Lord Mountnorris was spoken to and much interlocution there was before he would say he did speak the words or deny them and after much debate to and fro the Witnesses were called in my Lord Moore and Sir Robert Loftus and they did testifie the words in the Charge upon Oath much debate there was to call every particular to remembrance he cannot at this present but as near as he can he will that was before my Lord Mountnorris withdrew and after his withdrawing and some Speeches to the Council of War they came to Voting and in the Voting there was never a man to his remembrance in giving his Vote on both Articles but did profess he gave it in a confidence that there should be Mercy extended to my Lord Mountnorris and with an Intercession that he might find Mercy from His Majesty And when the Votes were all past my Lord of Strafford stretched forth his right Arm and protested he had rather have his Arm cut off or lose his right Arm than my Lord Mountnorris should lose a hair of his Head or a drop of his Blood for that cause and that he would write to His Majesty to supplicate Him for Mercy Being asked on the Committees motion whether my Lord of Strafford did not publish he had acquainted His Majesty with it and they were called together to give Reparation of some Injuries done to himself He Answered My Lord made a long Speech at that time setting forth the Charge and making mention of His Majesties Letter and His Majesties Letter was read and he did understand by my Lord Deputy it was to give Reparation but the particular words on his Oath he doth not remember Being asked whether some of the Council moving they might proceed on the Article that did not extend to Life my Lord of Strafford did not reply Nay both He Answered That he remembers very well it was proposed to the Council of War that they were to judge on both Articles And being asked by whom He said he will Ingeniously answer he believes my Lord of Strafford did but specially to say who or in what manner he cannot Being asked whether the Evidence given against my Lord Mountnorris was not written in a Paper drawn out by my Lord of Strafford and that the Witnesses referred to that wholly He Answered He did see a piece of Paper in my Lord of Straffords hand and believes it was some note for his remembrance what it was he knows not and when the Witnesses were brought in there was a paper to which they had set their hands of the words spoken Being asked other questions successively touching the pressing of the Councels proceedings on the Article only that touched not death and whether my Lord of Strafford wished them to proceed on both He Answered He remembers it not so prest on that occasion nor doth he remember whether such a Provision was made That the Proceedings should be on the Article that touched not Life Being asked whether any beside my Lord of Strafford moved they might proceed on both Articles He Answered He remembers in the debate the manner of proceeding was spoken of and to his best remembrance by the Discipline and Rule of the Army it was said he was to be proceeded against on both Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether the Earl of Strafford did not in plain and direct terms say He would not be a Judge in that Cause nor give a Vote by any means He Answered He remembers he gave no Vote and being more than five years since the special words he doth not remember but in general after he had set forth the Injuries done to himself he profest he would give no Vote but left it to the Council Being asked on the Lord of Straffords motion whether he did not desire the Council of War but to proceed as to any other Officer in the Army and what Sentence they should give he would not take ill He Answered When my Lord Mountnorris was withdrawn he spake not a word but did when he came in again He doth not remember the words Being asked whether the Army was not a great part of it in Dublin and in motion and daily exercised when the words were spoken by my Lord Mountnorris He Answered He cannot tell precisely whether the most part was there but there was a part of the Army there and they did exercise Being asked on the motion of the Committee whether the Sentence he approved so well of he thanked them for it He Answered That he doth not remember any special words but he thinks in Civility he would do it Being further asked whether after my Lord Mountnorris was withdrawn my Lord of Strafford did not continue in his place and sit at the Table end amongst the Council He Answered I do really believe he did so The Lord Strafford confessed he did when the Votes were delivered but desired the Lord Dillom might be asked whether he sate only as a party not as a Judge and sate bare through the whole proceeding of the Cause He Answered He doth not remember it particularly whether he sate bare all the while for it is long ago and he did not heed it The Lord Ranulagh being asked whether he was present at the Lord Mountnorris his Sentence and whether my Lord Strafford declared they were called together to give satisfaction for Injuries done him by my Lord Mountnorris He Answered That in this particular my Lord of Strafford was Nobly pleased to mention his tenderness of my Lord Dillom least he should be his own accuser He was pleased to mention something the other day wherein he had tenderness of him That he shall be as little fearful to speak the truth in this Cause as in that having been required by their Lordships as presuming he hath done nothing but what he may justifie That for that particular question he hath been heretofore examined in some particulars of it and shall now with the best of his memory repeat and offer to their Lordships according to his weakness every passage in it That he was summoned to appear in the Council-Chamber and as he takes it it was December 12. 1635. That being there my Lord sate in a Council of War and he amongst others having the Honour to wait on him my Lord Mountnorris's name being mentioned after he was set at the Board arose and stood as near my Lord Deputies Person as was fit
in due obedience they are bound and obliged to be So it was not Caeca obedientia Sir Iames sayes That he the Earl of Strafford did administer the Oath This one single Testimony but to tell their Lordships plainly the truth he confesses he did give that Oath being not only obliged by the Council but they directing him and that the Petition was not got forcibly from them it appears evidently for there is nothing against it Sir Iohn Clotworthy sayes That on this Oath administred great multitudes went away but he names not one of that multitude and if they did go who could help it If they would go away rather than give such a pledge of their Allegiance he should have been loth to have restrained them to make them stay against their Wills For the Instructions that went with the Commissions Sir Iohn Clotworthy very truly says they were under the hands of himself and all the Council but what these Instructions were he cannot expresly say and that under favour he conceives is no witness and so is no Charge on him But to express his rancor against the Scotish Nation next come the words proved by Richard Salmon the Schoolmaster and he swears positively and directly that he my Lord of Strafford spake these words the 10 th of October 1639. The plain truth is that he the Earl of Strafford was come into England in September before and if that man shall notwithstanding undertake positively to swear that individual day he is less to be credited The said time of his coming into England was confirmed by two Witnesses Mr. Thomas Little being upon my Lord of Straffords motion asked about the time of my Lord of Straffords coming from Ireland He Answered That my Lord Lieutenant came from Ireland Thursday 12 Sept. 1639. and landed the next day and came to London 21 Sept 1639. Mr. Ralton being examined to the same point Answered He very well remembred my Lord came to London 21 Sept. 1639. For the words themselves That the Scotch Nation are Rebels and Traitors and that he will root them out Root and Branch the Witness is a single Testimony their Lordships see how true he is in the first part of it and he is equally true in the second The other Testimony is one Iohn Loftus and he sayes my Lord of Strafford wanted terms to express the heinousness of that offence and he hoped to have such of the Scotch Nation as would not submit to the Ecclesiastical Government rooted out Stock and Branch from that Kingdom And this said my Lord is quite another thing and no way agreeing with the former but nearer the truth and far from rooting out the Scotch Nation for there are but few that submit not to the English Church-Government So there is left only one single Testimony of the Schoolmaster that hath not learned his Lesson perfectly but is taken tardy as if he were a Scholar and the other makes it quite another business And as they have offered these things and have not proved them by more than one single testimony and he a very infirm one He my Lord of Strafford besought their Lordships that he might call for a Witness or two that were there and heard all that passed Sir Philip Manwaring my Lord said was a Judge of the Court and nearer him than the Witness and likely to hear more distinctly Sir Philip being asked what the words were and of what nature they were whether they were not restrained to the Faction of the Covenanters and them that would not take the Oath in Ireland and not the Nation it self He Answered That he was present that day and sate within the Court and within hearing so that he heard every word that fell from my Lord Deputy it is true his Speech there was very long but he shall repeat no more of it than that he conceives pertinent to the present occasion that is Whether he should say these words Against the whole Nation or speak only to the Faction and properly and pertinently shun the word Nation It was on the occasion of Mr. Stuart who stood at the Bar with his Wife and Daughters and Gray My Lord telling him he was sorry that bearing the name he did he should be the only man that carried himself with that disobedience and my Lord expatiated very much and in conclusion said That Scotish Nation with respect I speak of it for I know there be among them gallant and worthy persons and I have great experience of them and of the Loyalty and Faith they bear to their Sovereign but there is a Faction amongst them which I shall endeavour as near as I can to bring to that obedience at least to keep them that are within this Kingdom to that Obedience Loyalty and Duty that Subjects ought to bear Being asked Whether my Lord did not express himself at that time that he would not take on him to judge any thing of the Action in Scotland not knowing the Law of that Kingdom but such of that Nation as are here in Ireland if they will not submit to the Government of Ireland he will do the best he can they shall not stay here He Answered That it is very true my Lord Deputy did at that time speak to that purpose as near as he can remember in truth viz. That he did not know the Laws nor Customs of that Kingdom therefore would say nothing to them but for so much as concern'd the Kingdom of Ireland and the keeping of the King's Subjects in Loyalty and Obedience there he would do his best to preserve that Being asked on Mr. Glyn's motion whether he heard these words Root and Branch or Stock and Branch He Answered In truth he did not Robert Lord Dillon being asked to the words spoken by my Lord of Strafford in the Castle-Chamber at the Sentence and how he expressed him-himself concerning the Nation of Scotland He Answered That he confesses it hath been his custom and it may be it is an ill one never to mind words spoken in the place unless he supposes he shall be called to account for them he remembers my Lord spake of the refusing of the Oath and of some rigor to them that should refuse it but for particular words he members not Sir Adam Loftus being asked what he heard of these words He Answered That he was at the Censure but truly he cannot burden his memory with any the words that tend to this question It was a great while agoe and he little thought they should come to any recapitulation of them and in truth he doth not remember them Being asked whether Stuarts Sentence was not given by the unanimous Vote of the whole Council He Answered Indeed he believes it was Sir Philip Manwaring being asked what he heard the Master of the Rolls say that day He Answered That coming from the Castle-Chamber waiting on my Lord Deputy to the Castle where many Dined and all that
had been Judges and Mr. Wainsford the Master of the Rolls took occasion to speak to my Lord Deputy in his the said Sir Philips hearing and commended him for carrying himself with that caution that he had no way reflected on the Nation but the Faction in that Kingdom and had shunned the words which might reflect on the Nation And so his Lordship concluded his Defence and said he hoped that there was nothing proved that should touch him so deeply as Treason for if the obeying of the Commands of this Case be so great a crime he must confess if it were to do again being not better informed by wiser men tho hereafter he may be better informed and prevent it he should be that Trairor over again and do the self-same thing again and therefore if he had done it out of ignorance he hopes their Lordships will not look on him as having any evil intention or wicked purpose but to serve His Majesty with faithfulness which he hopes will procure an easier judgement from their Lordships than to think of a High Treason in this Article And then Mr. Whitlock made Reply thereunto in substance as followeth That in his Answer to my Lord of Strafford's Defence he shall begin with that which his Lordship was pleased to mention last and also at the beginning That this should not be accounted Treason he knows not the Illegality of it and if it were to be done again he would do it on that Command Whence Mr. Whitlock observed that his slighting or rather justifying of this offence when he is told in this great Presence that it is against Law and will be made good and appear to be against Law is a great aggravation of the offence It is well known that a new Oath cannot be Imposed without Assent in Parliament It is legistativa potestas The Oath of Allegiance is as antient as our allegiance and nothing needed to have been added to that and had it been tendered to them as it might have been by Law this would have performed the Kings Command which under favour went no farther and would have been sufficient security of what was doubted and feared But my Lord of Strafford will go farther the Oath that the Law enjoyns doth not please him he must have a new one framed by himself and published by his Authority thereby to make his Authority equal to an Act of Parliament 'T is indeed believed there were some apprehensions of dangers in Ireland by the great number of the Scots there and a Covenant in Scotland then Sworn but that Covenant is not to be medled withal now The Charge enforced against my Lord of Strafford is not his Care of preventing danger to the Kingdom but that he caused a new and unusual Oath to be Imposed and particularly that they should submit to all the Kings Royal Commands The Committee confess and think no man had ever yet a heart to doubt That the King would command any thing that should be against Law But it hath been sufficiently proved that my Lord of Strafford a Subordinate Minister under the King hath published his own Commands in the Kings Name which are not Justificable nor according to Law And that under favour might be a good cause for the Scots to be tender of taking his Oath knowing that these Commands here were not His Majesties Immediate Commands but the Commands of my Lord of Strafford which they saw many times so unlawful and exorbitant My Lord of Strafford hath produced diverse Witnesses to prove It was Debated on at Council-Board And that the Scots did chearfully take the Oath but in this he hath laboured to disprove his own Answer which is That the Scots came up and desired to have an Oath whereas it appears the Council-Table thought fit to send for them by Letters under his Lordships hand and it was propounded to them to take such an Oath He sayes himself put these words into the Petition In equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects Which showes That my Lord of Strafford himself had the Perusal and Correction of this Petition which is a good Proof that he contrived the Oath The Petition doth only beseech my Lord Deputy That an Oath might be framed to vindicate themselves from the Faction of their Countrymen and the Covenant which they might have done by the Legal Oath the Oath of Allegiance But he put something in above what they desired and that was for submission to all the Kings Royal Commands which may extend to Liberty to Property of Goods and so is a great deal further than His Majesty was pleased to Command by His Letter wherein there was nothing but what was very fit to be commanded by my Lord of Strafford and very fit for him to obey And What if my Lord of Strafford should procure a Letter from His Majesty to do that which is not warrantable by Law the Kings considerations are far above the particular Points of the Municipal Law of this Kingdom He cannot know them but is to be enformed of them by His Ministers Now if my Lord of Strafford shall misinforme Him and desire to have that by His Authority which is not warrantable by Law the fault is my Lord of Straffords and it much aggravates the Crime but the Kings Letter doth not warrant my Lord of Strafford for he hath proceeded further He sayes concerning the Censure of Mr. Stuart That he delivered his Opinion among the rest but their Lordships may remember he went as high as to charge him with Treason It is true the Bishop of Derry conceived it might be Treason And the Primate said The Denial of the former part might be Treason but not the latter but my Lord of Strafford conceived the latter part to be Treason too And therefore surely his Opinion had more harshness and severity then the rest and being his Opinion it was of sufficient weight to carry along with him all the rest and that which was his own Act at the beginning which he Contrived and Treated with the Scotch Lords and Gentlemen That he persues in his Sentence and if others joyn with him in a hard Sentence against Law his fault is not the less but rather the greater to draw others into the same fault His Lordship says little of the Fine that is paid It is true it cannot be proved how much was paid but those that were Fined continued in Prison till very lately for that Fine And whereas he sayes Any taking the Oath might have been Released the next day It is the more Cruelly done to keep them in Prison till they take an Oath who cannot satisfie their Consciences that they may take it My Lord sayes If one refuse the Oath of Allegiance in this Kingdom he shall incur a Premunire and this Sentence was more moderate Indeed if that had been tendered they had incurred the like sentence and that might serve the turn but my Lord must stretch his
power higher and above the Law He would frame a new Law and for not observing that a new Punishment too He sayes There is nothing of the Ecclesiastical Discipline in the Oath but the Witnesses expresse it that my Lord interpreted it to extend to the observation of the Ceremonies and Government of the Church established and to be established His denial to speak the words That he would root out the Scotch Nation doth not disprove that which is so clearly and strongly proved by two Witnesses He sayes He should be Frantick if he should speak such words but one of the Witnesses said He exprest himself to be transported and that he knew not what he said in that Sentence He sayes He never received wrong from that Nation but Curtesies then those words show the more Ingratitude He says Sir Iames Mountgomery speaks nothing that sticks on him It is true he speaks only to the Contravening of the Oath but he shows that to be expresly otherwise then in my Lords Answer He confesses he gave the Oath but whether he did or no his Authority Injoyning of it would have been all one He says Sir Iames Mountgomery desired the words Iust and Lawful Commands might be added and that my Lord expounded it No other were intended But then there was the less reason to deny the inserting some of them for their sakes that were tender and desired to have them put in for their satisfaction He sayes That Sir Iohn Clotworthy deposes That Multitudes of the Scotch Nation went away but he names none But if Sir Iohn be Asked he will give very good satisfaction Sir Iohn Clotworthy being Asked to that Point He Answered That he might easily amongst so great a Multitude Remember so few names and when he heard my Lord of Straffords Exception Multitudes did throng in upon him whereof he did now particularly name about six and said He could name a great many more Being Asked concerning the Execution of Trueman as a Traytor for the matter of Knockfergus He Answered That he was at Knockfergus at the Assizes when this Trial was concerning this Trueman and was then on the Bench and heard all the passages of the business whereof he made this brief Relation as followeth This Trueman was an Englishman that dwelt not far from Knockfergus and one that was sent about the Country but by whom Sir John could not tell but there were vehement Suspitions that he was Imployed to find out those that would engage in Discourse concerning the Scotch business he spake with one Captain Giles who feigned himself a great Friend of the Scotch Nation and said That he conceived they were greatly distressed and wished that he could use means whereby they might be eased Hence he discoursed with True-man who was but a silly Man and got from him words whereby he discovered a good will to the Scotch Nation and some discourse about the Castle of Knockfergus insomuch that he got Truemans Letter to recommend him into Scotland whether he pretended a desire to go to serve under that Command Upon this he produced the Letter and that was given in Evidence against him and so he was Condemned and Executed Mr. Whitlock proceeded and said My Lord alledgeth for his Justification another Oath enjoyned here to the Scots by the Authority of the Council-Board but this gives no Countenance to that in Ireland for the Oath enjoyn'd there was another after that enjoyned by my Lord of Strafford therefore that which came first can receive no colour from that which came last And the Oath here being the same as near as we can remember with that in Ireland was rather a Precedent for this Howsoever the Committee never heard that the Oath here was executed or enjoyned to any Though Richard Salmon was mistaken in point of time of speaking those words of the Scotch Nation at the Sentence yet he speaks to the substance and matter of the Sentence and Words and it was when my Lord of Strafford was in Ireland and though the name of the Month be mistaken it cannot weaken his Testimony and my Lord of Strafford confesses he was at the Sentence and the day before he came to England And with him concurs Loftus though not in Words yet in Substance My Lord produced Witnesses concerning these words Sir Philip Manwaring affirms my Lord said He was very sorry Stuart should be the only Man yet it is proved that diverse were brought to Dublin and Imprisoned there and many hundreds forsook the Kingdom and left their Estates therefore he could not be the onely man But though he and the rest remember not the words yet if the Witnesses produced do precisely remember them the forgetfulness of my Lord of Straffords Witness shall not at all Impeach the other So the Committee concluded thus That it stands clear that my Lord of Strafford hath assumed a power to himself above Law to Administer an Oath contrary to Law a new Oath to bind Mens Consciences with great severity He said formerly He would make an Act of State equal to an Act of Parliament and nothing can make an Oath but an Act of Parliament in this therefore he is as good as his word This is an assuming of a Power above Royal-Power for an Act of Parliament cannot be made without the Three Estates their Lordships and the Commons are Interested in it for this is not Penes Potestatem ministri Mr. Maynard added That some Exceptions had been taken against Sir Iames Mountgomery viz. That he was scrupulous to the Petition but not to the Oath My Lord of Strafford takes a Power to Administer an Oath It is hard to lay such Bonds on any but to put it on general and ambiguous words is much harder And how far that may intrench on any Man if for refusing such an Oath he shall be Sentenced in the Star-Chamber more then he is ever able to pay and more than my Lord of Strafford confesses he would expect payment of this is so transcendent an Incroachment that there cannot be a greater for it takes away Liberty of Conscience and endangers the whole Estate And the Kings Letter doth not justifie the proceeding at all for had my Lord persued that and gone no farther there had been no Complaint for His Majesty enjoyned him to take an Oath that might distinguish one from another but doth not enjoyn to punish them that refused it the Grievance is the Coertion of it and so under favour It is no Justification Mr. Stroude added That my Lord of Strafford at the end of his Speech said If this were Treason and the Occasion offered he would be ready to do it again And Mr. Stroude said He must confess he doth believe him and this makes him consider a heavy thing that once befel this Kingdom When Gaveston came to over-act his bold offences how heavy that befel the Kingdom he leaves to their Lordships Consideration My Lord of Strafford desired to
and being demanded how the King would do if he were not supplyed by Parliament He said the King hath 30000 men and 400000 l. in his Purse and his Sword by his side and if he wants Money who could pity him That he said likewise he could make peace with the Scots when he list but that was the worst of Evils There were other words spoken by Sir George Wentworth my Lord of Strafford's Brother to a Gentleman a Member of the House of Commons that England was sick of Peace and it would never be well with it till it were again conquered These were the words of others his Creatures They shall prove his Lordship's own words and Counsels That he declared his opinion to my Lord Primate of Ireland that in case of necessity His Majesty might use his Prerogative to levy what he needed saving first to try the Parliament and if that supply him not then to use his Prerogative as he pleased That at another time when my Lord Conway a Nobleman of this House was pleased to ask him How the Forces raised and to be raised should be paid My Lord of Strafford said he doubted not but twelve Subsidies would be given My Lord Conway putting the doubt to him again What if they should not be given My Lord of Strafford was pleased to reply Then the King would be acquitted before God and Men if he took some other course to supply himself though it were against the Will of the Subject At another time when His Majesty had Graciously declared himself that he would have a Parliament he was pleased to say That in case the Parliament should not supply him he would be ready to serve him in any other way These Words and Counsels were all before the calling of the last Parliament In the time of the sitting of the Parliament the House of Commons were frequently urged by Messages procured by my Lord of Strafford from His Majesty to take consideration of the Kings Supply for a War a-against Scotland and before consideration and relief of the grievances in Religion and Government of the Kingdom 12 Subsidies were demanded for release of the Ship-money only and when the House of Commons were in debate concerning Supply and before they came to resolution by advise of my Lord of Strafford that Parliament was dissolved After the Parliament was dissolved they shall show how by divers Words and Counsels my Lord of Strafford endeavoured to incense His Majesty against His loving Subjects and so to slander them to His Majesty as to make a division between them And also of His design to bring in an Army upon us That he declared to His Majesty that the Parliament had denyed to supply him and had quite forsaken him and that he said to a Noble Earl of that House That the Parliament in this great distress of the King and Kingdom had refused to supply the King in the ordinary and usual way and therefore the King might provide for the Kingdom by such ways as he thought fit and that the King was not to suffer himself to be mastered by the frowardness and undutifulness of his people That he said at another time to a Nobleman in this House That the Parliament in denying to supply the King had given him advantage to supply himself by other ways And if worse words can be uttered or spoken than what have been mentioned they shall conclude with such of his words as none can be imagined to be of more fearful and dangerous consequence viz. The same day that the Parliament was dissolved my Lord of Strafford by way of advice and Counsel told His Majesty That now he had tryed the affections of His People and that he was loose and absolved from all rules of Government That he was to do all that Power would admit since he had tryed all ways and was refused and should in so doing be acquitted before God and men and that he had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce his Kingdoms They began with that which concerned Scotland The Earl of Traquair being sworn was asked What he remembred to be spoken by my Lord of Strafford concerning the demands made by the Scots in their Parliament when he my Lord Traquair made relation of those demands with the time and other circumstances He Answered That it would be hard for him to answer to so general a question for their Lordships and a great many know that he made relation of the demands made by the Scotch Subjects in Parliament at two several times one by the King's Command here before the Lords of the Council Another by the like Command of His Majesty before the Peers at York But being directed to apply himself to the words spoken by my Lord of Strafford when he made his relation before the Council here His Lordship Answered That he could hardly give an Answer to such a general Question but he believed my Lord of Strafford when he was at Council gave his opinion in any thing brought in debate as the Lords of the Council did He knew what was brought in debate but cannot condiscend to every thing that my Lord spake there Mr. Whitlock here interposed and said That he mentioned not the particular words that might come from my Lord Traquairs own expression but the question he desired was Whether my Lord of Strafford did not say The demand of the Scotch Parliament was a sufficient ground for the War To which my Lord Traquair being Interrogated He Answered That he should very clearly declare to the best of his memory what he heard upon that occasion but for the present he could not remember particularly of any such words expressed by my Lord of Strafford here at Whitehall for he believes it was there when the Council met when he made the first relation But he remembred he was Deponed on these before and if it might stand with their Lordships pleasure and form he would willingly remit himself to his former Deposition Mr. Whitlock offered to their Lordships that for the recollecting of his memory my Lord Traquair might peruse the former Deposition But my Lord of Strafford opposed it because their Lordships having not yet made use of any thing taken on oath he desired that Rule might be still kept Mr. Palmer insisted on it it being not offered as a proof to be heard but because it was tender'd to him to vary being on his oath though but in a Syllable from what he had spoken before And Mr. Glyn added That this is very ordinary at Law But my Lord of Portland moved that the House might be Adjourned that the examinations should not be made use of My Lord Traquair desired that he might not be mistaken for he would express his Reasons and humbly submit it to their Lordships that he was by order of their Lordships examined on oath before and examined on the same question and he only submitted this to their
Lordships whether or not their Lordships would allow him to remit himself to the Depositions in writing And if it was not fit nor consisted with their Lordships pleasure he should go on to the best of his memory and if he keep not the very words he should keep the sence And this he said was that he might not vary from any thing that was in his written Deposition Mr. Maynard to induce their Lordships thereunto instanced That if a man writes a thing in a Book and he after produced as a Witness the Witness may have leave to look on his own Book much more when he is examined and there can be no suspition of fraud in this Whence my Lord of Strafford inferred That this Gentleman desired my Lord Traquair should desire that which my Lord himself did not desire The Lord Traquair then proceeded and said All that he remembred in this particular to the best of his memory was upon occasion of a Debate at York at the Kings Majesties last being there where it was required That he should make that same relation before the Peers who were to meet the next day after that he had made at the Council-Board here Some question having been made what should be the ground or occasion of this relation again since it was conceived the business was not in the same condition it was at the time of making his first relation Because as it was alledged at the time of making this relation that it was only of Demands and these Demands had been represented by the Commons of Parliament to His Majesty with other Demands and likewise in Parliament they had made these Demands pass into an Act It was therefore represented by some that there was not a necessity of making the same relation he had before But of the Demands only and not the Case of the business as it stood before And upon this wherein he shall not be obliged to words but something to this sence my Lord of Strafford expressed That he conceived That the unreasonable Demands of Subjects in Parliament was a ground for the King to put himself into a posture or to this sence and his Lordship repeated and explained it That the unreasonable Demands of Subjects was a ground for the King to put himself into a posture of War Being asked Whether it was spoken of Demands in Parliament His Lordship Answered It was that the unreasonable Demands of His Subjects in Parliament c. for it was on the Scotch business they were speaking Being asked where this was spoken He Answered It was spoken before the meeting of the Peers at the Council which was convened and he believes his Majesty was present Being directed to repeat the words again His Lordship said the words were That the unreasonable Demands of Subjects in Parliament for it was on the Scotch Demands my Lord conceived might be a ground for the Kings Majesty to put himself into a posture of War Being asked Whether these Demands of the Scots were not in Parliament He Answered That all the Demands made to the Kings Commissioner are in Parliament or by the Parliament and here he said he was forced to make a little digression if he Answered to this for the Parliaments there use not that way that the Parliament doth here For he being the Kings Commissioner Propositions and Demands and Articles were made for him which are the preparatory ways of Parliaments and some Commissioners from the Gentry and Nobility made motions and demands to him in private before they were voted in publique And of them all he was tyed to make an account All were made in Parliament or by Warrant of Parliament or by some Body of the Parliament Being asked whether some of the Lords then present did not declare and express themselves to be of a contrary opinion He Answered That truly as he believed the occasion of this came upon this debate and he believed there were some of the Lords of the Parliament by way of debate of another opinion as he remembred it And particularly my Lord Morton said he was of another opinion to the best of his memory Being Interrogated who first spake in Council after this relation He Answered That he believed in this there might be a mistake for at that time he had made no relation but was to make a relation next morning before the Peers and this was only the debate whether he should make relation or not But at that time at York no relation was made before the Council but before the Peers next morning Being Asked But after the Relation made to the Peers Who then spake first He Answered That truly he could not tell Being Asked Whether he could tell who spake first at Whitehal He Answered That it is very well known to a great many Lords here that he by His Majesties Command made a Narrative of the Demands made to him in Parliament by the Subjects of Scotland In which Relation he hoped my Lords memory would serve he left the Commissioners who were coming up by Warrant from His Majesty on Petition to give a Reason of their Demands This he did and it was his greatest care to do it faithfully and ingenuously without burdening of any whom it concerned and to burden his memory who spake first and who spake last he could not tell but on debate of the business something was proposed to the Table and every man declared his Opinion and he thinks they all agreed in one but who spake first and who last he knows not Being Asked Whether he remembred the words my Lord of Strafford spake at the making of that Relation to the Privy-Council He Answered That he remembers that which he hopes all my Lords well remember on that Relation of his the Kings Majesty being then present in Person was gratiously pleased to take notice of that he the Deponent had there affirmed That some one he thinks his name was Cunningham was sent from the Parliament of Scotland to supplicate His Majesty to allow some of their own members to come up to His Presence and present their Demands The King was pleased it should be so and when they were all of the same Opinion the King condescended to it and to the best of his remembrance it was consented to by my Lord of Strafford and the whole Board That at their coming up if they should not give good Reasons and satisfaction for their Demands they would be assistant to His Majesty to put him in a posture to reduce them to their due Obedience But he cannot tye himself to words Being Asked What was meant by a Posture He Answered A posture of Warr he believed must needs be a capacity and Power to reduce them to Obedience Being desired upon my Lord of Straffords motion to repeat the words again He Answered That he made a Narrative Relation and a Narrative Relation only and the Commissioners whom His Majesty was pleased to condescend to
Matter they now desiring his Examinations only to the point of my Lord of Straffords perswading the King to an Offensive War against the Scots The Examination of Algernon Earl of Northumberland taken 5th December 1640. Read To the 16th Interrogatory he saith That the said Lord Lieutenant did after the breach of the last Parliament advise His Majesty To go vigorously on in an Offensive and not Defensive War against the Scots The Lord Bishop of London Lord Treasurer of England Sworn and Interrogated What he knew concerning the Earl of Straffords giving Advice to His Majesty to go on in an Offensive War against the Scots before or after the breach of the last Parliament He Answered That all he remembred of my Lord of Straffords Advice touching a War was That which he gave publickly in Council at the Council-Board for he remembred not any single Advice that he gave at all The Advice given by his Lordship the Deponent at the Council-Board after the Relation made by my Lord the Earl of Traquair to the best of his remembrance was this My Lord Traquair did make a Relation before His Majesty and my Lords of what had passed in the Parliament of Scotland and of many Demands made there whereunto they did desire to have His Majesties consent and approbation His Majesty was pleased to signifie to those Lords That among these Demands there were some of them very prejudicial to that Crown insomuch that He could by no means give way to and consent to them with His Honor and safety and thereupon the Advice or Opinion given was and then was given by my Lord the Earl of Strafford as well as others of my Lords and the Demands being of that nature as they were then informed and the Commissioners as he remembers being then come up or at lest had a Licence to come up It was Resolved upon That in case they should insist upon those Demands that had been so related and would not recede nor alter nor submit otherwise then His Majesty should prepare Himself to reduce them by force this he takes to be my Lord of Straffords Expression and the Substance of what was there delivered Being Asked Whether my Lord of Strafford advised then an Offensive War or a Defensive War He Answered That he did not well remember what kind of War but he thinks it was an Offensive War Being Asked Whether at the Dissolving of the last Parliament my Lord of Strafford did not advise to an Offensive War He Answered That he remembers upon a Meeting afterwards of casting up the Charges and other things there was a discourse of it Whether it was best to have a War as only Defensive the War being then resolved upon or to make an Offensive War that is to enter into Scotland with Force And there were diverse Opinions in 't and he believes my Lord did incline to the Opinion for an Offensive War Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Whether he my Lord of Strafford delivered any Opinion at that time different from the rest of the Lords present He Answered That every man there exprest himself in such sort as he thought fit some in one kind some in another but he did not observe any difference as to the main in the Opinion of any man Being Asked About the time When this was He Answered It was at the Council-Board at that time when my Lord Traquair made his Relation and as he remembers it was about December Being Asked Whether he delivered his Opinion once or twice He Answered The Opinion was delivered but once as he Remembers To the Seizing of the Scotch Ships in Ireland after the Pacification Mr. Nich. Barnewell Sworn and Interrogated What he knew of the stopping of the Scotch Ships in Ireland He Answered That Sir Robert Loftus had a place under my Lord Admiral and had seized on some Scotch Ships and Boates and that others fled away and that Sir George Ratcliff was Angry that he spoke of it in so Publick a Place as to give them occasion to run away but the time he doth not remember and he thinks Sir Robert Loftus was Vice-Admiral of Lemster but he cannot take his Oath that the Warrant was from my Lord of Strafford but Sir Robert told him He had a Warrant And so Mr. Whitlock said They would leave it as to the matter of Scotland and observed the Proofes That when a free Parliament was Convened there by the Kings Authority and had liberty to treat of their Grievances and Demands and when these Demands by way of Narration were declared in my Lord of Straffords hearing though the reasons of them were not then delivered yet my Lord of Strafford gave his Advice to the King That these Demands made in Parliament were a sufficient ground of a War against them even after His Majesty had declared Himself satisfied and would stay to hear the Reasons but that would not satisfie my Lord of Strafford he himself declared it at several times and before himself had heard the Reasons that the Demands made by the Kings Free Parliament were a sufficient ground of a War And if it be so Mr. Whitlock said he he is sure then Parliament or no Parliament no Liberty nor Property can subsist with it My Lord of Strafford hath declared his intention and designe to subvert the Parliament and to subvert the Government of Scotland That he perswaded the King to an offensive War and told the King their Demands were not matter of Religion but struck at the root of Government and that it was fit to punish them by force and on these proofs it is conceived his Designe was manifest After this Mr. Whitlock proceeded to shew also his Design against England and began with the Testimony of my Lord Primate of Ireland The Examination of the Right Reverend Father in God Iames Lord Archbishop of Armagh Primate of all Ireland taken 11 Ian. 1640. To the 119 th Interrogatory he saith That in or about April last past in discourse betwixt the Earl of Strafford Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland and this Examinant at Dublin in Ireland touching the Levies of Money upon the Subjects by the King he did hear the said Earl of Strafford declare That he did agree with those in England who thought that in case of imminent necessity the King might make use of his Prerogative to levy what he needed save that as his Lordship then further said in his opinion His Majesty was first to try His Parliament and if that supplyed him not then he might make use of His Prerogative as He pleased Himself or words to that effect The Lord Conway being asked what words my Lord of Strafford used when the said Lord Conway Demanded How the Army should be paid in case the Parliament gave not supply His Lordship Answered That he had been formerly examined upon this thing and then gave his Answer and besought their Lordships to give him
leave to look on what he said that he might not vary And after some Debate thereupon having the Copy of his Examination shewed him He Answered to the said Question That it was only for one word that he desired to look into the Paper and it was whether in the later end he did not say or words to that effect These words about which he is examined did pass between my Lord of Strafford and him in private discourse when he believes neither of them thought they should have been called to an account for them for they were then thinking of raising of Horse and seeing but small sums of Money He asked my Lord how these Forces should be paid His Lordship Answered He made no doubt but that the Parliament would give assistance to the King by 12 Subsidies and if they did that it would sufficiently pay the Army or some such words But said he my Lord Conway What if the Parliament shall not supply the King or not give these Subsidies Then my Lord of Strafford said or words to that effect That the King had need and if the Parliment would not supply the King in those things that were just and lawful to be supplyed and if they would be so wilful as not to supply him then the King was justified before God and Man if he did help himself in the Goods of the Subjects or to this effect tho it were against their Wills Being directed to repeat the words again on my Lord of Strafford's motion His Lordship Answered That in his examination he said words to this effect and so he doth now yet doth not depose absolutely that these very words were spoken but to his understanding and as he then conceived them they were to this purpose when he asked my Lord of Strafford how these Troops then raised should be paid My Lord of Strafford said He made no doubt but the Parliament would supply the King and give him 12 Subsidies And saying again What if the Parliament would not give him that assistance My Lord of Strafford said The cause was very just and lawful and if the Parliament would not supply him then he was justified before God and Man if he sought means to help himself though it were against their Wills Sir Henry Vane being Interrogated whether he did not hear my Lord of Strafford when consideration was had of a Parliament before the last Parliament promise His Majesty in case the Parliament did not succeed he would be ready to serve him in any other way He Answered That he must begin as the Lord that spake last since they have no help of their Examinations which is that the words were such or to such an effect for otherwise they that be Witnesses have a very hard task to play for they lye open to be excepted against and peradventure when they speak truly may be intangled if their memory help them not out But to the Question proposed he says this That upon the 5th of December as he takes it he did hear my Lord of Strafford speak words to that effect as they are now asked to his best remembrance and truly he thinks really he did viz. That truly if the Parliament should not succeed his Lordship would be rea dy to assist His Majesty any other way or words to this effect Mr. Whitlock summed up the Evidence and said There was an intent to call a Parliament to try if they would give the King a Supply and being engaged in a War against the Scots my Lord of Strafford before the Parliament came doubted not but 12 Subsidies would be given and while the Parliament was sitting that was the number demanded by a Message from the King This designe did not take other effect than himself expected and it seems desired for when the Parliament was set and frequently urged by messages from His Majesty to give that very number of 12 Subsidies and that for release of Ship-money only whereas by the old and right course of Parliaments the grievances are in the first place to be considered of and to be humbly presented to His Majesty and upon redress of those grievances the people are to shew their thankfulness to His Majesty for His Grace and Goodness in redressing of them by their free gift of Subsidies My Lord of Strafford changes this course and perswades His Majesty to put the Subsidies in the first place and to fall at first on consideration of supply and that so great a proportion and while the Parliament was in debate of this and before they had resolved whether they would give Supply or no by my Lord of Strafford's advice the Parliament was Dissolved His Lordship confesses in his Answer he did give his Vote for dissolving of the Parliament and they shall make it appear in time that he did procure it After the Parliament was Dissolved my Lord of Strafford goes on endeavouring all that lay in his power to incense a Gracious Sovereign against His loving Subjects to slander the people to the King and for ever to break off all Parliaments and take away the Liberty and Property of the Subject and by what course By Force by bringing in an Army amongst us That was his Advice tho blessed be God His Majesty was pleased to reject it 1. To prove what was said by the Creatures and Friends of my Lord of Strafford Sir Ro. King being Interrogated What words he heard from Sir George Ratcliffe to this purpose That the King had an Army and Money in his Purse and if His Subjects in England should not supply him what use he might make of His Army for supply and the times He Answered That he demanded of Sir George Ratcliffe How the King would do for Money to maintain the Scotch War Sir George Ratcliffe said The King could not want Money His Majesty had an Army of 30000 Men and he had 400000 l. in his Purse and a Sword by his side and if he would want Money who could pity him or words to this purpose To which he the Deponent objected How can this course be taken when the Scotch are on foot unpacified Sir George Answered They can make peace with the Scotch when they please and being riding together to the he the Deponent said That my Lord Lieutenant and the said Sir George had least reason of all His Majesties Subjects to desire a War Sir George Answered It is true For his part he would give 20000 l. to be quit of it but we are now engaged and we cannot but go on and then he the Deponent asking What he would do for Money Sir George Answered The King could not want Money He had an Army c. as before is deposed Being asked what was the reason of making this Demand and whether he did conceive a forcible way was intended He Answered He did understand that by the words That if they would not supply him the King was ready to supply himself Lord Ranalaugh being
Lex And further not to bind himself to words but to the sense at the same time the Earl of Strafford used these words or words to this effect That the King was not to suffer himself to be mastered by the frowardness and undutifulness of his People or rather as he conceives by the disaffection and stubborness of some particular men And this he said from his former Notes which he thought fit rather to use than to trust his Memory Being Asked Whether by particular Men he meant not particular members of the Parliament His Lordship Answered By his Troth he conceives so for he was speaking of the Parliament Edward Lord Newburgh being Sworn and Interrogated Whether he did not hear my Lord of Strafford speak these words to His Majesty That the Parliament in denying the King had given him advantage to supply himself by other wayes His Lordship Answered That those very words he never heard nor words to that effect But he hath Answered in his Deposition what he hath heard and he shall desire to speak a little before he Repeats it And this it is When he was Examined he did then speak that which occurred to his memory but since the agitation of this business something else hath come into his thoughts And if he shall speak that which his Conscience now tells him he shall desire my Lords that then Examined him and the Gentlemen not to misinterpret him if he shall add something to what he formerly delivered He cannot say whether when he heard these words the King was by or no for he doth not remember it But he very well remembers that after the breach of the last Parliament he heard at the Gallery or Council-Table but he rather believes now at Council-Table some words to this effect That seeing the Parliament had not supplied the King His Majesty might take other Courses for Defence of the Kingdom But though he cannot possibly Swear my Lord Lieutenant spake these words yet he verily believes he heard him speak something to this purpose And this is all he can testifie Henry Earl of Holland Sworn and Interrogated Whether he did not hear my Lord of Strafford say to His Majesty That the Parliament in denying the King had given Him advantage to supply Himself by other wayes or words to that effect His Lordship Answered That he needs not trouble their Lordships with Circumstances or long Discourses but these words to the best of his remembrance according to his Oath he conceives were said to the King upon the Dissolving of the Parliament at the Council-Table That the Parliament in denying to supply the King had given Him advantage to supply Himself by other wayes But he will not tye himself so particularly to the words but as at the time when he was Examined before the Gentlemen of the Committee he added or words to this effect Being Asked By whom they were spoken His Lordship Answered By my Lord of Strafford Mr. Whitlock then proceeded to the latter words of the 23 d Article which shew in full and plain termes what my Lord of Straffords design was and what he would have laboured and endeavoured His Majesty to entertain The words of the Charge were Read And to prove them the Examination of Algernon Earl of Northumberland was first Read taken the 5 th Decemb. 1640. To the 7 th Interrogatory he saith That the Earl of Strafford said That in case of necessity and for the Defence and Safety of the Kingdom if the People do refuse to supply the King the King is Absolved from Rules of Government and that every thing is to be done for the preservation of the King and His People and that His Majesty was acquitted before God and Man And he saith that the said words were spoken at the Committee for Scotch Affairs in the presence of His Majesty and for the time of speaking these words he doth not perfectly remember He saith That these were the Discourses mentioned in his Answer to the third Interrogatory which made him believe what he hath answered to the said third Interrogatory Their Lordships calling to have the third Interrogatory Read It was Read To the Third and Fourth he saith That the Forces which were to come out of Ireland were to Land in the West part of Scotland but he doth not know nor hath heard to his Remembrance that these Forces or any other were to be imployed in this Kingdom to Compel or Awe the Subjects of this Realm to yield to such Taxes and Charges as should be Imposed on them by His Majesty He saith That he hath heard my Lord Lieutenant make some Discourses to the King whereby he believes that in case the King were not supplied by Parliament that some Course was intended to raise Moneys by Extraordinary wayes He saith That the said Lord Lieutenant did declare in His Majesties presence That the Design was to Land the Irish Army in the West parts of Scotland Sir Henry Vane being Interrogated What words he heard my Lord of Strafford speak to the King before the Parliament or after the Dissolution of it tending to this That the King had tried the Affections of His People and was Loose and Absolved from all Rules of Government and on what occasion He Answered That to the General Question of what was spoken before or after the sitting of the Parliament he doth not remember and there are no particular words asked him But to these words which have been read he shall as near as he can ingenuously deliver what he did formerly depose ever reserving to himself words to the same effect That he considers very well where he is and the presence before whom he speaks That he hath never in the whole course of his life loved to tell an untruth much less in this Honourable Assembly That he shall as near as he can in this Case tell their Lordships plainly and truely the matter It is true as my Lord Admiral hath declared to their Lordships that these words he is to testifie were spoken at the Committee of Eight for the Scotch Affairs For the time he shall crave pardon if he cannot particularly speak to it But thus far he shall say It was clearly after the Dissolution of the last Parliament It is true and if he do not very much mistake it was when the debate whether a Defensive or an Offensive War was Controverted And to the best that he can remember and clearly as he conceives there were words spoken either these he shall now relate or to the same effect by my Lord of Strafford who is now at the Bar. The occasion being Whether an Offensive or Defensive War and Arguments were Controverted in it My Lord of Strafford did say in a Discourse for he must be ingenuous he must say all he hath deposed or is required Your Majesty having tryed all wayes and being Refused and in Case of this extream necessity and for the safety of the Kingdom
so far as to suffer him to ask a Question of three or four persons he shall produce professing that there was never a thought in any mans heart that he knew nor never a word in any mans mouth that ever he heard that any part of the Army should ever touch a foot on English ground as some of their Lordships and His Majesty knows where his Lordship added If he may with Reverence name His Majesty in that poor and distressed condition wherein himself is for he is not worthy of his Protection being in this miserable Case and therefore it was too much boldness for him to name him But his Lordship desired the benefit of reading my Lord of Northumberland's Examination to the point of that Design Algernon Earl of Northumberland his Examination taken To the First Interrogatory he saith That he hath often heard both His Majesty and the Earl of Strafford mention the 8000 Foot which were to be raised in Ireland but to his best remembrance he never heard any intention of bringing the said 8000 Foot or any part thereof into England That the design of landing them on the West of Scotland was often spoke of and so resolved as he believes To the Second he saith He doth not remember that ever he heard the Earl of Strafford speak or mention the reducing of the Subjects of England by the said Army in Ireland Here my Lord of Strafford desired their Lordships to take notice that my Lord of Northumberland was one of the Committee of Eight for Scotch affairs The Lord Marq. Hamilton being Sworn and Interrogated what he knew or believed concerning the raising of 8000 Foot in Ireland or whether he was privy to any intention of bringing the same or any part of them into England His Lordship Answered It is late and time is precious to their Lordships and so he shall answer as shortly as he can unto that Question It is very true His Majesty was Graciously pleased to acquaint him with the resolution of raising that Army of 8000 Foot And it is true that the resolution was That these men should Land in the West of Scotland about a certain Town called Ayre or where my Lord should find it most convenient And for any thing he the Examinant knows there was no other design he never heard of any nor did he hear of the bringing of them into England for any such use or end or that they were ever to come to England at all Being asked whether he heard my Lord of Strafford speak any thing concerning the reducing of England by the Army His Lordship Answered That he doth not remember my Lord of Strafford to have spoken any such words Sir Tho. Lucas Sergeant-Major-General of the Horse of the King's Army in Ireland who as my Lord of Strafford said being with him him here in Candlemas-Term was 12 months in his own Lodging at Covent-Garden something passed between them concerning the disposing of the 8000 Foot and 1000 Horse to what purpose they were raised And being asked What was the Intent and Circumstance of that discourse He Answered That about the latter end of Ianuary 1639. my Lord of Strafford told him an Army was to be raised in Ireland another in England and with the English Army a Regiment of Horse whereof his the Examinants Troop should be one and some Regiments of Foot and these Foot and Horse were to joyn with the Irish Army and that my Lord taking a Map of Scotland which lay then in the Chamber said Now I must tell you the greatest secret in all the world and pointed with his finger towards that part of Scotland which lies on the Dunbar-Frith and said the Irish Army is to land here and here I intend to take a Town but he did not nominate the Town and added That he might the more easily do it because the Scots would not expect his Landing there but it is likely will imagine the Landing of the Irish Army at Carlisle or some other part of England And his Lordship said further That when he had taken this he would strongly fortifie it intending it for a Magazine of Ammunition and Victuals for the Irish Army and so he should bring all the Countrey about to Contribution even to Edenburgh and when he is Landed he the Examinant should have notice and should joyn with the Irish Army and that he would send these Horse my Lord spake to him the Examinant about 1000 as he thinks to convey him the Examinant to him My Lord of Strafford added That the truth is there were Foot-Regiments of Sir Tho. Wharton's and Sir Arthur Tyrringham's and Sir Tho. Lucas's Regiment of 500 Horse that when the Irish were Landed in Scotland were to be fetcht by Ships from St. Rees and so to have joyned with the others And it was supposed 500 would have found no great difficulty on a suddain for such a march and Sir Tho. Wharton and Sir Arthur Tyrringham came over purposely to have persued his Design by which it appears there was no design to bring them to England and so a strange Philosophy it was to bring it into any mans thoughts it should be so Mr. Slingsby being Interrogated What he knew concerning the Design of the Irish Army He Answered That he had the honor to be sworn of the Council of War and then the charge of making the whole Magazine of Ammunition and Provision for that Army was conferred on him That he repaired to England 10 days after my Lord and persued his received Instructions for making preparations of Artillery and Ammunition directed which he got all shipp'd and ready about Iuly that the slow proceedings of the Irish Army did then retard his directions from my Lord-Lieutenant for the dispatch away of those Ships which were ready That my Lord was pleased to tell him he must provide some stores for a Magazine for maintainance of the Soldiers that he was pleased to impart to him That the Army was to Land in Scotland about Aire That he thereupon proceeded to get a Map drawn of that Coast and informed himself by that Map and discoursed with Scotchmen in Town That Aire was a barred Harbor and that divers Ordinance were mounted to intercept the Landing which he representing to my Lord-Lieutenant my Lord directed him to take consideration of the burdens of the Ships and whether they could be brought to ride near the Town and that there might be provision of Flat-bottomm'd Boats to Land a good number at once That he had a Warrant to receive 10 of the King 's Flat-bottomm'd Boats and 20 were provided by my Lord of Antrim the last year with Oars and a floating Battery to secure the Landing of the men That he had direction to obtain Warrants from my Lord of Newport for 10 16 or 20 pieces of Ordinance That at first he had 10 afterwards 6 more Iron pieces for fortification which as my Lord of Strafford had imparted to him the Examinant
heard my Lord of Strafford mention the reducing of England by an Irish Army It is true my Lord of Northumberland goes thus far That he hath heard him say something whereby he might conceive there was intended some Course of raising Moneys by extraordinary wayes And that my Lord of Strafford confesses is very true for if it were by borrowing 3 or 400000 l. it is an extraordinary way the Kings Revenue could not serve these occasions there must be other wayes and Loan was one and that fair and honourable and just So then as to this Testimony the Defendant offers to their Lordships that he hath examined my Lord of Northumberland and he knows no such thing He hath examined my Lord Marquiss of Hamilton and his Lordship is pleased to say He remembers no such thing at the Committee of 8. He desired my Lord Treasurer might be Examined to the same Words The L. Treasurer being Asked Whether ever he heard my Lord of Strafford in any private Council or Debate with the King tell him the said words He Answered That he never heard my Lord speak those words of the Irish Army nor any thing like it and he repeated That he never heard his Lordship speak it in the manner proposed nor any thing like it Being Asked on Mr. Maynards motion Whether he ever heard my Lord of Strafford say The King was loose and Absolved from all Government He Answered That he desired time to consider of that He remembers not any such thing but he reserves himself for that Being Asked on the like motion Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford say any thing to that purpose That the Parliament had deserted or forsaken the King He Answered That he remembers not that he heard any such thing Lord Cottington being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford say such words That the King had an Army in Ireland and he might employ them to reduce this Kingdom He Answered That he hath heard the Question heretofore and is very confident he did never hear him say it in his hearing and that he hath a great deal of Reason to be confident of it Being Asked on Mr. Maynards Motion Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford say That the King was Absolved or Loose from all Rules of Government or words to that effect He Answered That as he takes it he hath been Asked to that Question too and he thinks he never heard the words for it was as he thinks a very absurd Proposition and he should not have heard it with patience Being Asked on the like motion Whether he heard him say The Parliament had forsaken or denyed or deserted the King or words to that effect He Answered That for saying The Parliament had not provided for the King The Parliament was ended and had not provided for the King and That the Parliament had not provided or left the King without Money It is very probable he did say it and he thinks he did so for it was the truth Being Asked Whether he said The Parliament had denyed the King He Answered That what his words were It is a hard matter for him to say That he said The Parliament had denyed or left the King he will not Swear Being Asked on like motion Whether he perswaded the King that he was to be supplyed in extraordinary wayes He Answered That he cannot Swear that neither Where Mr. Maynard observed That my Lord of Strafford himself granted and yet that 's forgotten To which my Lord Cottington Answered That if the Gentlemen would have heard him out he should have given good satisfaction He hath been Examined Whether my Lord of Strafford used these words Extraordinary wayes and he cannot say he did but he hath heard him say The King ought to seek out all due and legal wayes and to employ His Power and Authority and Prerogative Castè Candidè he remembers these words very well For close of his Defence to these words That His Majesty had an Army in Ireland to reduce this Kingdom witnessed by Mr. Treasurer My Lord of Strafford said Mens memories are weak and the best may be mistaken or misremember and may think one man says that which another man says or that a man says that which in truth he did not say as it is in this Case Their Lordships have had all the light that is possible for him the Defendant to give them My Lord of Northumberland being examined on oath sayes he remembers not the words My Lord Marquis Hamilton remembers them not My Lord Treasurer of England remembers neither that nor any thing like it My Lord Cottington remembers no such thing and is well assured he never heard him say any such thing Here are all that are left of the Committee save my Lord of Canterbury and him the Defendant cannot examine otherwise he would Secretary Windebank is a little too far off to be heard at this time and if their Lordships could ask him whether the Defendant ever spake the words on the faith of a Christian and a Gentleman he will take his oath he doth not think nor believe he ever spake them but believes as constantly as possible can be that he never spake them He would be loath to swear he did not it being so long since But when his words shall more particularly and specially be remembred by another man than by himself he must commend that memory that observed what he said so perfectly as to be able to give a better account of them than himself the party that spake the words or any man in the company besides My Lord further insisted That this concerns him very nearly for it would be a grievous charge that is on him by this means though not in the intendment of the Gentleman that urges it who he hopes wishes him well if he should be thought to be an overthrower of the Liberties of the Subject by a foreign Army However it is a single Testimony and no more and that single Testimony without any prejudice to the Testimony cannot rise in Judgement against him Nay he cannot be Indicted nor Arraigned of High Treason for it by the Statutes of 1 E. 6. Ca. 12. the last Proviso of it in these words BE it Enacted by the Authority aforesaid That no Person or Persons after the First day of February next coming shall be Indicted Arraigned Condemned or Convicted of any offence of Treason Petty-Treason or Misprision of Treason or any words before specified after the First day of February for which the said Offender or Speaker shall suffer any pain of Death Imprisonment Loss Forfeiture of Goods Lands or Tenements unless the said Offender or Speaker be accused by two sufficient and lawful Witnesses orshall willingly without violence confess the same And if their Lordships will give leave to consider the first part of the words being fairly and indifferently interpreted and with
it very well and he had not done his duty if he had concealed it for he was one of them that told him of it Lord Goring being examined to the First and Second Question proposed to my Lord Marquis His Lordship Answered That he remembers something to this purpose and Candidè Castè makes him call it to mind but the particulars he cannot remember Candidè Castè for using the Kings Power he hath heard often Tho. German being examined to the same Question Answered That he would be very loath to say anything that doth not perfectly occurr to his remembrance he remembers that divers times at Council-Board my Lord spake these words Candidè Castè and he remembers them very perfectly but what day and time he remembers not but he remembers very perfectly he heard my Lord of Strafford say it must be on an urgent and unavoidable occasion that any by-course should be taken or put in practice but what day and time he cannot tell To the exact words of the Interrogation he cannot say but something to the sence as he the Examinant delivers them Being asked whether my Lord of Strafford hath not concluded That things will not be right till there be a right understanding between the King and his People or words to that effect He Answered That he thinks no man hath the Honor to sit at that Board but will give him that Testimony that he hath often spoken That the greatest happiness that can occurr to the King and People is the happy agreement and understanding between them Being asked on Mr. Glyn's motion Whether those words were used before the Dissolution of the Parliament or since He Answered To his best remembrance before yet he doth not deny but they may be said since that he must leave to the Lords whose memories serve better to distinguish times The Lord Treasurer being examined to the First Question proposed to my Lord Marquis He Answered That he doth not remember the discourse about his business Being asked to the Question Nov. 2. proposed to the Lord Marquis He Answered That phraze of Candidè Castè he remembers very well were used more than once but whether they were applyed to this particular he cannot speak He remembers my Lord used the words in such a sence and the interpretation of them was chastly and honestly but the other part he cannot remember Being asked to the Question Nov. 2. proposed to the Lord Marquis He Answered That he remembers not any of it Lord Cottington being examined to the Question Nov. 1. proposed to the Lord Marquis He Answered That if his Deposition be looked upon it will be found he did say my Lord put the Case so and he now says it again he the Examinant did declare and understand that my Lord Being asked to the Question Nov. 2. proposed to my Lord Marquis He Answered That he thinks he hath answer'd this already he remembers the words Candidè Castè and that the Power the King had for the preservation of Himself His Crown Posterity and People ought to be used Candidè Castè in all fair and just ways Being asked whether my Lord of Strafford did not say That the King was bound after the present danger provided for to free the Subject in Propriety and Liberty from the prejudice of such a precedent He Answered That he said the necessity being past and the work done the King ought to repair it and not to leave any precedent to the prejudice of His People Being asked Whether my Lord did not say that in conclusion all must be setled by Parliament and till all the dispute betwixt the Prerogative of the Crown and Liberty of the Subject be determined neither King nor People should be happy He Answered That he verily believes many of their Lordships have often heard him say it He hath heard my Lord say it to the King at the Council-Table It hath been always his position and to himself the Examinant he hath said often both before the last Parliament and after it was broken and it was an ordinary discourse to His Majesty That His Majesty could not be happy till there were an happy Union betwixt Himself and the Parliament and the Prerogative and Liberty of the Subjects were determined And my Lord of Strafford desired to have so much benefit of their Lordships Justice as to have the Examinations of my Lord Keeper which are not yet come in to these points reserved And now he said he had stated to their Lordships truly and justly the Question concerning these words that are by pieces and paches charged and which taking the whole contexture of the Discourse from the beginning to the ending represent them quite otherwise as he conceives than might seem to be enforced against him He offered this further to their Lordships That they see plainly and clearly proved that at all times and frequently he hath presumed by His Majesties favour and good leave to express himself how necessary it is for the happiness of the King and People that all these matters of difference should be setled and bounded and that by Parliament and that till they were so bounded neither His Majesty nor they could be happy so that it was far from going against the antient grounds of Government that have been here setled in that singular Providence and Wisdom of our Ancestors and never shall he contribute any thing but to the maintainance and preservation of them in all honest and honourable ways and means whatsoever and if these words were spoken with that moderation and qualification that the Power to be used must be a lawful Power and the ways to be taken lawful ways they were no way subject to exception Besides there is one Argument that cleers the Intendment and meaning of the words as he conceives a great deal more prevalently than if those words of lawful Power and just and honourable ways had been put in And that is that nothing hath been done by the King or the Council against the Laws and Customs of the Realm in pursuance of them where it hath been any breach on any Liberty or Propriety of the Subject What extraordinary Course hath been taken not warrantable by Law None that he knows of so that there being nothing but justly and fairly administred the very Deed done shews them to be spoken with that meaning and so to be interpreted so much the rather by how much doing well is better than saying well And the worst that can be made of them they are but words and no more and for the excuse of them their Lordships well remember what he said concerning the Statute they can never amount to Treason and before they shall be brought to him in a Criminal Charge he besought their Lordships to observe something he shall offer to them These words charged on him were not wantonly or unnecessarily spoken or whispered in a corner but they were
the Laws and Government of the Kingdom and the use made of the words is not that they are in themselves Treason but as they prove that intention But this is the work of another time being matter of Law and therefore Mr. Whitlock said he would say no more to it now neither doth it require his Answer nor is it at all to this business My Lord did much insist on it that there was no mention by any of the Lords that were of the Committee for the Scotch Affairs concerning the words of bringing the Army out of Ireland to reduce this Kingdom diverse of their Lordships being to that point examined But Mr. Treasurer Swears in the Affirmative he heard the words spoken and when they come to sum up the rest of these words and applying them to this shew the dependance they have one upon another their Lordships will see plainly that must be his intention and that there could be no other interpretation of his words It is possible for some that were at the Council not to hear the words and yet that disproves not a Witness that sayes in the Affirmative he did hear the words And though some of my Lords do not remember some other passages as That His Majesty was loose and absolved from all Rules of Government yet that is proved by two Witnesses and though the rest remember them not yet that stands clearly proved Other things which some of their Lordships did not remember were proved by three Witnesses Whence it may be deduced that what Mr. Treasurer deposes is to be believed though some of my Lords that were present did not remember it By making a sum and Collection of the words and comparing one with another it will appear very clear that my Lord of Straffords intention was to bring in that Army to reduce this Kingdom And first their Lordships will remember the words that passed betwixt Sir George Rateliffe and Sir Robert King and the Relation between my Lord of Strafford and Sir George Ratcliffe And before my Lord of Strafford came out of Ireland he gave direction to Sir George Ratcliffe and afterwards on a Discourse Sir Robert saying how my Lord of Strafford and how the said Sir George Ratcliffe had least cause to desire a War Sir George replyed We are ingaged not himself onely but We speaking of my Lord of Strafford are ingaged in a War and Sir George sayes further that the King hath 30000 Men and 400000 l. in his Purse and a Sword by His Side and if he wanted Money who would pity Him which cannot be intended but by raising of Money on the Subjects of England But besides their Lordships may remember the expression of my Lord Ranalaugh and Sir Robert King that these Forces were intended to be used for raising Moneys here and that my Lord of Strafford offers to sell his Land in Ireland Besides his Brother said the Commonwealth is sick of Peace and would not be well till it was Conquer'd again which must imply Force and an Army to do it It is a Proof of my Lord of Straffords intention that a Parliament should be summon'd to give Supply and if not that then it should be Dissolved and other Courses should be taken My Lord Primates Deposition is that in case of necessity His Majesty might use His Prerogative might levy what he needed only first it was fit to try the Parliament and if that succeeded not then to use his Prerogative as he pleases My Lord Conway proves the same Intention my Lord of Strafford saying to him That if the Parliament supplied not the King His Majesty would be acquitted before God and Men if he took some other course to supply himself though against the will of His Subjects And it cannot be intended to be against their will but it must be by force for if it be with their will it is voluntary And Mr. Treasurer proves that my Lord would be ready to serve the King any other way that is by Force by Armes or any way whatsoever Their Lordships may remember his words to His Majesty That the Parliament had denyed to supply Him that they had forsaken Him which was onely to incense His Majesty against Parliaments He told my Lord of Bristol in that Discourse with him that His Majesty was not to suffer Himself to be Mastered with the frowardness and undutifulness of His People and if His Majesty was not to suffer Himself to be Mastered by them but to Master them it cannot be but by strength of others My Lord of Holland proves more fully and my Lord of Newbrough concurs with him that His Majesty had an Advantage to supply Himself other wayes because the Parliament had denyed to supply Him And there be no other wayes save Parliament-wayes but extraordinary and illegal wayes My Lord of Strafford hath much laboured to answer and qualifie the last words but he comes short of it And those words are as fearful and of as high a nature as can be expressed by a Subject and by a Counsellor to his Soveraign The first part of the said last words are clearly proved by the Testimony of my Lord of Northumberland and Mr. Treasurer That the King had tryed His People and was Absolved from all Rules of Government That He was to do all that Power would admit that he had tryed all wayes and was refused and should be acquitted before God and men The latter part Mr. Treasurer onely reaches to that His Majesty had an Army in Ireland which He might imploy to reduce this Kingdom and comparing these words with the former if the King be absolved from all Rules of Government Which way can that Power be used but by bringing in an Army the latter words being dependant and consequent to the former and if they be compared together and sum'd up their Lordships will be satisfied that this was the intention of my Lord of Strafford to bring an Army out of Ireland into this Kingdom to reduce it and that his purpose was by a strong hand to compel the Subjects of the Kingdom to submit to an Arbitrary Power and whatsoever should be imposed on them And whereas my Lord makes it a great part of his excuse that nothing was executed upon this Counsel we must give humble thanks to His Majesty for if his Counsel might have taken place no doubt but that had been done which was laboured and advised to be done But a Gracious Sovereign would not take hold on those Counsels but rejected them as to that though so much was done on other Counsels and Misinformations of my Lord of Strafford as my Lord of Strafford will never be able to justifie That nothing is done is no excuse to him It is an Obligation to the Kings Subjects the more to Love and Honor him But it shews clearly my Lord of Straffords intention if it might have taken place to have changed the Lawes to have brought an Army upon us and by
them Compel us to submit to an Arbitrary Power And so Mr. Whitlock concluded that he should trouble their Lordships no further at this time having answered most of the things my Lord of Strafford hath insisted on and if he hath forgotten them he hopes he shall be holpen by some of his Colleagues But he supposes it appeares clearly that my Lord of Straffords intentions were to subvert the Laws to set a Division betwixt the King and His People and though His Lordship is pleased to make something slight of it as not to be matter of Treason yet this compared with his other Actions declaring his Intention and Designs it proves it not onely to be Crimen laesae Majestatis but also Reipublicae Mr. Maynard seconded Mr. Whitlock and said That something he should presume to add My Lord of Strafford excuses himself because he was not alone in the Council against Scotland Thus far he was alone the rest concluded upon a Hipothetical proposition if the Demands were unreasonable then a War was fit But in two Propositions he was a lone First That before the Reasons were heard the unreasonable Demands of Subjects in Parliament were a sufficient ground for the King to put Himself into a Posture of War And Secondly That these Demands were not matter of Religion but struck at the Root of Government And when he Answers that Point he takes it for granted That if he sayes they struck at the Root of Government the Resolution was just In his Defence he insists upon two things matter of Excuse and matter of weakning of the Testimonies produced For the matter of Excuse of what he said to the King in private it was testified onely by one who was then present and at other times in Council viz. That there would be no happiness till there was a good Agreement betwixt King and People Whence Mr. Maynard observed That they think not that all he spake is nought but they produce Proofes that he did speak nought they think him not so unwise upon all occasions to speak words of so high a Consequence He hath taken another course to weaken their Testimonies and nothing is so strong but if that course be allowed that he uses it will take off the strength of it Mr. Maynard said He hath heard of breaking a thing to pieces by taking to pieces and if my Lord of Strafford shall take every parcel of the proof and say this is a single Testimony This is matter of discourse This I speak at my Table This in my Chamber taking them asunder he may answer them asunder But if he hath in his Chamber and at Counsel and in Bed and on all occasions presumed to run so high on the Liberty of the Subject and then think that because he speaks sometimes good words all must be paistered up he must give us leave to differ from him in that The Witnesses say he spake the words Candidè Castè some speak to the occasion most say they were spoken at several times both before and after the Parliament and if they must be applyed only to what is lawful what need these Adverbs to make it good Truly he may say it was done Cautè it was not done Castè in this Cause For that my Lord hath said divers Witnesses were by and heard not the words deposed by Mr. Treasurer What Argument is this That when divers are by that which divers do not remember is not true My Lord confesses himself sometimes that Witnesses do not remember all things therefore it may be true that something may be spoken which Witnesses remember not else he confesses against himself which is not true There be other things wherein the Witnesses do concurr and that my Lord speaks not to though he speaks to that which my Lord of Northumberland and the rest do not remember and therefore it is no argument to say some were by and heard not what was spoken The sum of the Case will come to this There was a Parliament sitting he a little before casts out words about raising Money where he must have Adverbs to make it good he must raise Money in an extraordinary way the Parliament is broken and a necessity is made and Soldiers must be brought in to make good these ways now take these asunder and my Lord of Strafford will make it a good Action But as Mr. Maynard shewed they conceive all my Lord of Strafford hath done ended in that design he began it before he came over and though they believe His Majesty designed it for Scotland they speak not what His Majesty meant but what my Lord of Strafford counselled that is the thing he is charged with And whereas his friends and those nearest him spoke of this Fire that hath burst out he sayes this concerns him not Indeed he is very unhappy if his Brother or bosome friend must be the man that must accuse him But Noscitur ex Comite qui non cognoscitur ex se. It comes out of his own mouth and his friends expressions When Sir George Ratcliffe is asked how Money will be had He Answered We will make peace with the Scots and that is the worst of evils Surely he that thought a Peace betwixt the two Nations the worst of evils deserves not the applause that hath been given him in this place And if that comes to pass this must have relation to that of which he spake which is the levying of Money by force the King hath 30000 Men and 400000 l in his Purse and a Sword by his side and if he wants Money who would pity him Lastly My Lord of Strafford came to speak of their Lordships priviledge that if words spoken in Council should be pressed it would bring a disability on their Noble Lordships to enter into those imployments but that can be no excuse to say that he must take notice of things honourable and for every thing that a Man speaks at Council he must not be brought into Question It is not every thing nor every thing that is illegal that is brought into Question But if he advise to bring an Army on us to Master all we have and he must not be questioned Where then are their Lordships Priviledges and Who knows how soon there may be no difference betwixt a Peer and another In all this Defence my Lord of Strafford hath not offered any Defence for the Scandal which he put upon the last Parliament which to the last breath to the last minute of their Continuance did advise and consult of the Supply of His Majesty yet he calls this a denying of the King a forsaking of the King an undutiful stubborness and what else his high Speech and Eloquence pleases to misconstrue their Actions with To that Stat. 1 E. 6. Mr. Maynard said He shall not need to give any further Answer for if it be looked to it will appear nothing to concern this Case there being great difference between words spoken
which my Lord Mayor sayes that he the Earl of Strafford should say to His Majesty Sir there will be no good done with the Citizens of London till you have hanged some of them up which at first he said was to his best remembrance and upon recollection he says directly and absolutely for my Lord said he must not make it weaker against himself than it is and he wishes that rule might be kept on both sides which is to repeat the Evidence to their Lordships clearly and plainly as it is which duty he said he had Religiously observed since the beginning of the Cause and will perform to the last not misrecyting any thing for his advantage or disadvantage This being howsoever his comfort and joy that their Lordships are so wise as not to hearken to what is repeated of the Evidence but to the Evidence it self as it is plainly and clearly represented and that will not deceive them and therefore my Lord said to the best of his remembrance and the Witnesses said no more at the first he spake them not but he thinks they were spoken in so good company before their Lordships of the Council-Board that it cannot but be remembred by some of their Lordships if the words had been spoken and by His Majesty to whom it is said they were directed But being an equal Testimony however in this condition and misfortune and affliction it may be between this Gentleman and himself he thinks that before these troubles befell him he was as equally to be believed as the other and therefore all the difference is one sayes it the other denies it My Lord added That he denyed it in his Answer and he denies it at the Bar and in truth to his best remembrance he never spake the words and it is a thing of no great moment being a hasty word and at the most very excusable especially to a free spoken man as he is and he smarts for it which hath further engaged him perhaps than wiser man would have been that hath much worse thoughts than ever he had but he hoped it will be pardoned and not amount to make good the Charge against him but that their Lordships Honor and Justice will excuse it rather than punish it and so his Lordship said he would say no more to it Mr. Maynard made Reply thereunto in substance as followeth The Committee shall need to to say little to this Answer of my Lord of Strafford for whereas he sayes nothing of High Treason is proved their Lordships will be pleased to remember how oft this hath been answered for if their Lordships will look back to what they have proved from the beginning They charge not this as a particular Treason but having charged him with a design to subvert the fundamental Laws it appears he threatened it That the Kings little finger should be heavier than the loins of the Law They have shewed what he did in Ireland how he did not only threaten but gave sentence of death on one for words how there he hanged another it appears what a Jurisdiction he erected against Law and wayes were taken to maintain them how Soldiers were forced on mens Houses against their Wills and what Insolency they committed and that must not be questioned when it is propounded When he comes into England their Lordships hear what Counsels he gives which compared with the Plots he laid there is reason to think that these words proceeding from my Lord of Strafford that men should be Fined and Ransomed Hanged up and laid by the Heels comes not out of suddain passion but rise from those Principles and Resolutions that were in him to do all things according to his Will and Pleasure against Law They beseech their Lordships these may not pass as hasty words when they appear to be suitable and conformable to Actions and Counsels preceding for many years and not yet laid down by him for ought can be discerned The singleness of the Testimony hath been often Objected and as often Answered but this is no single Testimony My Lord Treasure speaks of his Advice to go on vigorously with Ship-Money Others prove Fine and Ransome and Hanging up Threatened which have all concurred to the general Charge being several circumstances proved by several Witnesses But whereas my Lord thinks to excuse himself because there was a Judgement in the Exchequer-Chamber God be thanked it appears to be a Judgement against Law and my Lord of Strafford spake these words after the King offered to lay down the Ship-Money for it was after the Parliament But there was never any Judgement that a man might be hanged in such a case nor be Fined and Ransomed for not certifying in matter of Loan my Lord of Strafford knows as well as any man that it is against Law himself having had a great hand in the Petition of Right Mr. Glyn desired he might observe one thing that fell from my Lord of Strafford not at this time only but at several times That it is hard he should for words be questioned as High Treason being a word spoken and no ill effect of it their Lordships may be pleased to call to mind that for words spoken concerning Treading on his Toe he prosecuted so far as to life and yet they were spoken as accidentally as these and not of less consequence and nothing came of them and yet he procured a sentence of death against the Speaker but here he extenuates it and must not be charged with words And so the 25th Article was concluded THE Six and Twentieth Article The Charge 26. THat the said Earl by his wicked Counsels having brought His Majesty into excessive charge without any just cause he did in the month of July last for the support of the said great charges Counsel and approve two dangerous and wicked Projects viz. To seize upon the Bullion and the Money in the Mint And to imbase His Majesties Coyn with the mixtures of Brass And accordingly he procured One hundred and 30000 l. which was then in the Mint and belonging to divers Merchants Strangers and others to be seized on and stayed to His Majesties use And when divers Merchants of London owners of the said Bullion and Money came to his House to let him under stand the great mischief that course would produce here and in other parts and what prejudice it would be to the Kingdom by discrediting the Mint and hindring the importation of Bullion he the said Earl told them that the City of London dealt undutifully and unthankfully with His Majesty and that they were more ready to help the Rebels than to help His Majesty And that if any hurt came to them they may thank themselves and that it was the course of other Princes to make use of such Moneys to serve their occasions And when in the same month of July the Officers of His Majesties Mint came to him and gave him divers reasons against the imbasing the said
such a room as this whether there be Serving-men or Aprentizes in a croud To which Mr. Maynard answered much less can he hear it Sir William Pennyman Interrogated whether the Petition deliver'd by my Lord Wharton was by the major part of the Gentlemen that met according to the Kings appointment at the place proper for the business declined And whether they did not declare their consent to a Months pay and that my Lord of Strafford should deliver the Message by word of mouth He Answered That the major part did decline the delivery of the Petition and it was done upon a Vote there being some difference of opinion and he thinks truly according to his conjecture there were 200 voices at the least to three or four Happily some others tacitly might be of another opinion but there was to his best remembrance three or four voted against it Being asked whether divers that Signed it did not decline it He Answered That divers that set their Hands to the Petition did retract it whereof he himself was one and divers other Members of the House whom he offered to name if their Lordships required it but that their Lordships did not think fit to direct Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not faithfully and rightfully present to His Majesty the Message he was intrusted with He Answered That he was one of them that went with my Lord but was in the same condition with Sir Edward Osborne for the crowd was so great that he could not come to hear Where my Lord of Strafford desired their Lordships to take notice that it was not in a corner when Gentlemen of their Quality could not come near Being asked on Mr. Maynards motion Whether there was to be any difference between what was to be delivered to the King and that contained in the Petition the last Clause excepted He Answered That he conceives nothing was to be omitted but only that of the Parliament Being asked on the Lord Whartons motion Whether he and another had not Commission to acquaint my Lord of Strafford from them that had subscribed the Petition that they had a Petition to be deliver'd his Lordship for His Majesty and whether he brought not word back again that they should wait on his Lordship with the Petition on Saturday at One or Two of the clock and at his Lordships own house and whether they did not accordingly wait on him He Answered That he did and they did come and it was purposely that they might most of them goe to the Hall not to make my Lords House a place of his debate Being asked whether he was not directed to acquaint my Lord of Strafford with the Petition and whether he brought back word about the time of attending He Answered It is true he did but he knows not whether he brought it on a Message from my Lord. Being urged to Answer that positively Whether he brought it as a Message from my Lord. He Answered That it may very well be he did he thinks he did but he added in effect his desire was to know what the Question tended to Mr. Maynard thereupon desired of their Lordships that a Witness at the Bar might not demand the meaning of a Question before he answers to the truth of it And Mr. Glyn observed that my Lord of Strafford had several times besought he might go on quietly with his Evidence and they hope their Lordships will justify them that they have behaved themselves as men intrusted by the House of Commons and that their Lordships will not suffer this Language to be used They must demand Justice And Mr. Maynard added that they desire only that the Witness may readily answer to the Question propounded and not advise what may be the consequence or enquire the intention of them for they are to speak only the truth But my Lord of Strafford conceived it a very fitting Question for the Witness to desire to understand the Question before he answers it and that 's all he doth as he conceives Being required to answer positively whether he brought that Message from my Lord of Strafford touching the time of delivering the Petiton He Answered That he did My Lord of Strafford here offered to their Lordships that he conceives this Question not material to him he was then extream sick and in his sick Bed when he should send this Message and that truly he was never in such height of incivility towards any man alive of a far meaner Quality than my Lord Wharton as to send them word they should attend him at such an hour he knows what belongs to my Lord Wharton and what to himself much better than to send for or expect any attendance from his Lordship Sir William Savill being Interrogated whether the Petition Signed as aforesaid was not absolutely by the major part of them in the Hall declined and voted that it should not be delivered He Answered That he was there and by the major part of the Gentlemen present it was delivered and consented that my Lord should deliver the substance of the Petition to the King by word of mouth saving the last Clause concerning the Parliament Being asked Whether there were not divers that Signed it who did afterwards retract it And whether himself did not He Answered there were and that he himself Signed the former Petition and then it came to be disputed before them whether they should retract it or no he was against the retracting of it and many delivered Votes against it under 10 he believes and for his own part he said nothing to it but it was carried so clearly by the opinion of them present that he went along with a great number of Gentlemen that went with my Lord to the King and he heard my Lord faithfully deliver the substance of the Petition in every thing and with more advantage to them than the Petition was drawn except the business of the Parliament Being asked whether part of it was not the consent to a months pay of the Trained Bands He Answered That he verily believes it was the intention of them all that a months pay should be paid to the Soldiers of the Countrey and the months pay was paid Being asked Whether it was not willingly and voluntarily paid in every place without constraint to his knowledge He Answered That in that part where he lived no body denyed whatsoever was asked so there was no pressing of any body to pay a penny nor complaint of any body for want of Money Sir William Pennyman being asked to the said last point He Answered That it was with a agreat deal of alacrity and cherfulness and he heard no man repine at it then nor since Sir Edward Osborne Interrogated to that Point Answered He never knew of any forcible course to make men pay it but it was freely paid Sir William Savill being Interrogated How many of
Soldiers upon the Refusers in an Hostile manner Sixthly Was an Incendiary of the War between the two Kingdomes of England and Scotland My Lords We shall leave it to your Lordships Judgments whether these Words Counsels and Actions would not have been a sufficient Evidence to have Proved an Indictment drawn up against him as those before mentioned and many others are That they were spoken and done to the Intent to draw the Kings heart from the People and the Affections of the People from the King that they might leave the King and afterwards rise up against him to the destruction of the King If so here is a Compassing of the Kings Death within the Words of the Statute of 25th year of Edward the Third and that Warranted by many former Judgments My Lords I have now done with the Three Treasons within the Statute of the Twenty fifth of Edw. 3d. I proceed unto the Fourth upon the Statute of the Eighteenth year of Henry the Sixth Chapter the third in Ireland and I shall make bold to read the words to your Lordships That no Lord nor any other of what condition soever he be shall bring or lead Hoblers Kernes or Hooded Men nor any other People nor Ho rses to lie on Horseback or on Foot upon the Kings Subjects without their good wills and consent but upon their own costs and without hurt doing to the Commons and if any so do he shall be adjudged as a Traytor 1. The Argument that hath been made concerning the person that it extends not to the King and therefore not to him weighs nothing with your Lordships Rex non habet in Regno parem from the greatness of his Office to argue himself into the same impossibility with His Sacred Majesty of being incapable of High-Treason it 's an Offence no Treason The words in the Statute No Lord nor any other of what condition soever he be include every Subject In Trinity Terme in the Three and thirtieth year of Henry the Eighth in the Kings-Bench Leonard Lord Gray having immediately before been Lord Deputy of Ireland is Attainted of High-Treason and Judgment given against him for letting diverse Rebels out of the Castle of Dublin and discharging Irish Hostages and Pledges that had been given for securing the Peace for not punishing one that said That the King was an Heretique I have read the whole Record there 's not one thing laid to his Charge but was done by him as Lord Lieutenant He had the same Plea with my Lord of Strafford That these things were no adhering to the Kings Enemies but were done for Reasons of State that he was not within those words of the Statute of the 25 of Edw. 3. himself being Lord Lieutenant there Object It hath been said That the Soldiers sessed upon the Subjects by him were not such persons as are intended by that Statute Hoblers Kernes and Hooded Men those Rascally people Answ. My Lords they were the names given to the Soldiery of those times Hoblers Horsemen the other the Foot But the words of the Statute go further Nor any other People neither Horse nor Foot His Lordship sessed upon them both Horse and Foot Object The Statute extends onely to those that lead or bring Savil led them my Lord onely gave the Warrant Answ. To this I shall onely say thus Plus peccat author quam Actor by the rule of the Law Agentes consentientes pari plectuntur poena if consent much more a Command to do it makes the Commander a Traytor If there be any Treason within this Statute my Lord of Strafford is Guilty It hath been therefore said That this Statute like Goliah's Sword hath been wrapt up in a Cloath and laid behind the door that it hath never been put in execution My Lords if the Clarke of the Crown in Ireland had certified your Lordships upon search of the Judgments of Attainders in Ireland he could not find that any man had been attainted upon this Statute your Lordships had had some ground to believe it Yet it s onely my Lord of Straffords Affirmation besides your Lordships know that an Act of Parliament binds until it be repealed It hath been therefore said That this Statute is repealed by the Statute of the 8 Ed. 4. Cap. 1. and of the 10th of Hen. 7. Cap. 22. because by these two Statutes the English Statutes are brought into Ireland The Argument if I mistook it not stood thus That the Statute of the First of Henry the 4th the 10th Chap. saith That in no time to come Treason shall be adjudged otherwise then it was ordained by the Statute of the 25 E. 3. that the reason mentioned in the Eighteenth year of Henry the Sixth in the Irish Statute is not contained in the 25 Edw. 3. and therefore contrary to the Statute of the 1 Hen. 4. it must needs be void If this were Law then all the Statutes that made any new Treason after the First of Henry 4th were void in the very Fabrick and at the time when they were made hence likewise it would follow that the Parliament now upon what occasion soever hath no Power to make any thing Treason not declared to be so in the Statute 25 Edw. 3. This your Lordships easily see would make much for the Lord of Straffords advantage but why the Law should be so your Lordships have onely as yet heard an Affirmation of it no reason But some touch was given that the Statute of the tenth year of Henry the Seventh in words makes all the Irish Statutes void which are contrary to the English The Answer to this is a denial that there are any such words in the Statute The Statute declares that the English Statutes shall be effectual and confirmed in Ireland and that all the Statutes made before time to the contrary shall be revoked This repeals only the Irish Statutes of the tenth year of Henry the Fourth and the Nine and twentieth year of Henry the Sixth which say that the English Statutes shall not be in force in Ireland unless particularly received in Parliament it makes all the Irish Statutes void which say that the English Statutes shall not be in force there It is usual when a Statute sayes that such a thing shall be done or not done to add further that all Statutes to the contrary shall be void No likelihood that this Statute intended to take away any Statute of Treason but when in the Chapter next before this Murder there is made Treason as if done upon the Kings Person That this Statute of the Eighteenth year of Henry the Sixth remains on foot and not repealed either by the Statute of the Eighth year of Edward the Fourth or this of the Tenth year of Henry the Seventh appears expresly by two several Acts of Parliament made at the same Parliament of the tenth year of Henry the Seventh By an Act of Parliament of Henry the Sixth's time in Ireland it was made Treason for any Man
the Statute of the Eight and twentieth year of Hen. 6th in Ireland it is declared in these words That Ireland is the proper Dominion of England and united to the Crown of England which Crown of England is of it self and by it self wholly and entirely endowed with all Power and Authority sufficient to yield to the Subjects of the same full and plenary remedy in all Debates and Suits whatsoever By the Statute of the Three and twentieth year of Henry the 8th the first Chapter when the Kings of England first assumed the Title of King of Ireland it is there Enacted that Ireland still is to be held as a Crown annexed and united to the Crown of England So that by the same reason from this that the Kings Writs run not in Ireland it might as well be held that the Parliament cannot originally hold Plea of things done within the County-Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the Five Ports and Wales Ireland is a part of the Realm of England as appears by those Statutes as well as any of them This is made good by constant practice in all the Parliament Rolls from the first to the last there are Receivers and Tryers of Petitions appointed for Ireland for the Irish to come so far with their Petitions for Justice and the Parliament not to have cognizance when from time to time they had in the beginning of the Parliament appointed Receivers and Tryers of them is a thing not to be presumed An Appeal in Ireland brought by William Lord Vesey against Iohn Fitz-Thomas for Treasonable words there spoken before any Judgment given in Case there was removed into the Parliament in England and there the Defendant acquitted as appears in the Parliament Pleas of the Two and twentieth year of Edw. 1. The Suits for Lands Offices and Goods originally begun here are many and if question grew upon matter in fact a Jury usually ordered to try it and the Verdict returned into the Parliament as in the Case of one Ballyben in the Parliament of the Five and thirtieth year of Edward the 1. If a doubt arose upon a matter tryable by Record a Writ went to the Officers in whose custody the Record remained to certifie the Record as was in the Case of Robert Bagott the same Parliament of the Five and thirtieth year of Edward the 1. where the Writ went to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer Sometimes they gave Judgement here in Parliament and commanded the Judges there in Ireland to do execution as in the great Case of Partition between the Copartners of the Earl Marshal in the Parliament of the Three and thirtieth of Edward the 1. where the Writ was awarded to the Treasurer of Ireland My Lords The Laws of Ireland were introduced by the Parliament of England as appears by Three Acts of the Parliament before cited It is of higher Jurisdiction Dare Leges then to judge by them The Parliaments of England do bind in Ireland if Ireland be particularly mentioned as is resolved in the Book-Case of the First year of Henry the Seventh Cook 's Seventh Report Calvin's Case and by the Judges in Trinity-Term in the Three and thirtieth year of Queen Elizabeth The Statute of the Eighth year of Edward the 4th the first Chapter in Ireland recites That it was doubted amongst the Judges whether all the English Statutes though not naming Ireland were in force there if named no doubt From King Henry the 3. his time downwards to the Eighth year of Queen Elizabeth by which Statute it is made Felony to carry Sheep from Ireland beyond Seas in almost all these Kings Reigns there be Statutes made concerning Ireland The exercising of the Legislative Power there over their Lives and Estates is higher than of the Judicial in question Until the 29th year of Edward the 3. erroneous Judgements given in Ireland were determinable no where but in England no not in the Parliament of Ireland as it appears in the close Rolls in the Tower in the 29th year of Edw. the 3. Memb. 12. Power to examine and reverse erroneous Judgments in the Parliaments of Ireland is granted from hence Writs of Error lye in the Parliament here upon erroneous Judgements after that time given in the Parliaments of Ireland as appears in the Parliament Rolls of the Eighth year of Henry the 6th No. 70. in the Case of the Prior of Lenthan It is true the Case is not determined there for it 's the last thing that came into the Parliament and could not be determined for want of time but no exception at all is taken to the Jurisdiction The Acts of Parliament made in Ireland have been confirmed in the Parliaments of England as appears by the close Rolls in the Tower in the Two and fortieth year of Edw. the 3. Memb. 20. Dorso where the Parliament in Ireland for the preservation of the Countrey from Irish who had almost destroyed it made an Act That all the Land-Owners that were English should reside upon their Lands or else they were to be forfeited this was here confirmed In the Parliament of the Fourth year of Henry the 5th Chap. 6. Acts of Parliament in Ireland are confirmed and some priviledges of the Peers in the Parliaments there are regulated Power to repeal Irish Statutes Power to confirm them cannot be by the Parliament here if it hath not cognizance of their Parliaments unless it be said that the Parliament may do it knows not what Garnsey and Iersey are under the Kings subjection but are not parcels of the Crown of England but of the Duchy of Normandy they are not governed by the Laws of England as Ireland is and yet Parliaments in England have usually held Plea of and determined all Causes concerning Lands or Goods In the Parliament in the 33 Edw. 1. there be Placita de Insula Iersey And so in the Parliament 14 Edw. 2. and so for Normandy and Gascoigne and always as long as any part of France was in subjection to the Crown of England there were at the beginning of the Parliaments Receivers and Tryers of Petitions for those parts appointed I believe your Lordships will have no Case shewed of any Plea to the jurisdiction of the Parliaments of England in any things done in any parts wheresoever in subjection to the Crown of England The last thing I shall offer to your Lordships is the Case of 19 Eliz. in my Lord Dyer 306. and Judge Crompton's Book of the jurisdiction of Courts fol. 23. The opinion of both these Books is That an Irish Peer is not Tryable here it 's true a Scotch or French Nobleman is tryable here as a common person the Law takes no notice of their Nobility because those Countreys are not governed by the Laws of England but Ireland being governed by the same Laws the Peers there are Tryable according to the Law of England only per pares By the same reason the Earl of Strafford not being a Peer of Ireland is
rest like your Lordships know whom Then he descends to the fourth Article and this concerns some words he should speak upon an occasion betwixt him and my Lord of Cork that he should tell my Lord of Cork He would have neither Law nor Lawyers dispute or question his Orders And upon another occasion That he would make my Lord of Cork and all Ireland know that all Acts of State which are Acts of Council there made or to be made should be as binding as any Act of Parliament This he said was proved but by one witness and I extreamly marvel to hear him say so for the latter words we proved by four or five or six witnesses that is That he would have Acts of State as binding as Acts of Parliament Whereas he sayes these are all the words produced against him in the time of seven years Government there your Lordships have heard of many words and if we would trouble your Lordships further in this kind we could prove such words spoken as often almost as he remained dayes in Ireland that is for the mis-recital The other part two witnesses proved but the residue That they must expect Law from the King as a Conqueror That Acts of State should be equal to Acts of Parliament and when an Act of Parliament would not pass he would make it good by an Act of State these speeches at other times were proved by five witnesses Then he falls back to the second Article touching the words That the Kings little finger should be heavier than the loins of the Law My Lords These words were proved expresly by five witnesses to be by him spoken and if he had produced five hundred that had said he did not speak them they had not been equivalent to disprove five but he produces none Sir William Penniman repeats other words and inverts them and none but he Another party a Minister reports a report that he heard concerning these words but my Lord he saith the occasion of the speaking of them was not mentioned Truly perhaps it might be the forgetfulness of my Lords memory but let me put him in mind and your Lordships remember that the occasion was exprest by one and that is Sir David Fowles that he laying a command upon Sir David to repair a Bridge and calling him to an account why it was not repaired Sir David Fowles told him he could not do it by Law And therefore omitting it my Lord said to him Sir some are all for Law and Lawyers but you shall know that the Kings little finger will be heavier than the loins of the Law Here is the occasion though he would have another business the knighting Money to be the occasion From the second he falls to the three and twentieth Article that is concerning words that he should counsel His Majesty that he might use His Prerogative as he pleased but in saying there was no proof offered he here begins to fall upon the other fallacy that is to pull things asunder whereas we produce them together and would make that which is a Fagot to be but a single Stick but under favour when I come with your Lordships patience to open the force of the proofs and put them together he shall find contrary to his expectation that they are fully proved by the testimony of many witnesses upon consideration of the precedent concurrent and subsequent Acts and Intentions of my Lord of Strafford I shall not now run over my Lord Primates testimony or my Lord Conwayes or master Treasurers or my Lord of Bristols but make use of them in their proper places when I shall put all together to shew his design and to prove his speaking of the words Then he comes to the five and twentieth Article which I shall not insist on though he pretends it not proved I shall refer that to my recollection that I may not answer to his pieces but bring all together and then the horror of his Fact shall more speciously appear Only this under favour I cannot pass over when he comes to justify an Advice and Counsel of the Kings being loose and absolved from all rules of Government and that he might use his Prerogative as he pleases he is pleased to mention the Argument of the Judges in the Ship-money and what they should deliver he makes the Warrant of his Counsel Now your Lordships may observe he would justify his actions by Law in some cases where it is to his advantage but in other cases he must be ignorant of the Law But my Lords for him to mention any thing in the Argument of the Judges concerning the Ship-money which is now cendemned and to make that a ground of his Counsel and advice to the King and not the judgement in truth but the Argument of the Counsel at Bar that therefore he is loose and absolved from all rule of Government for him to make the Parliaments deferring to give supply to be that necessity which was insisted upon in the Counsels Argument and to be such an unavoidable necessity as to beget an Invasion upon Propriety and Liberty it rests in your Judgements and the judgements of all that hear me what argument this is and what he declares his opinion to be this day In the latter part let me close hands and agree with him he sayes Proofs must be taken by themselves they must not be judged by pieces but together and now in good time I shall joyn with him and shall desire the same judgement that things may not be taken asunder but judged together according to his own words For the twentieth Article he is thereby charged with being an Incendiary between both Nations and an occasion of drawing two Armies into this Kingdom and to incense the War My Lords I remember if I did not mis-conceive and my memory misprompt me my Lord said He could have no occasion to incense a War being a man of an Estate and should have no benefit by it having sufficient to live without it but in due time I shall make it appear to my apprehension and I believe to your Lordships when you have heard it that the incensing of this War and provoking of it was the principal instrument of bringing to pass his design of subverting the Laws through the whole work of it My Lords in the passage of this he takes occasion to speak of the testimony of Mr. Secretary Vane who testifies That my Lord was for an offensive and himself for a defensive War Whence my Lord argues here is no great difference for both were for a War But my Lord Is there no difference between an offensive and defensive War in case of Subjects that live under one King is there no difference to bring an Army to offend them and for the King to raise a force to defend himself truly I think there is a great difference and a very material one too but your Lordships see he makes no difference between them My Lords
In the four and twentieth Article he mentions That he is charged with being an occasion to break the Parliament and lays hold of that as in the other Articles That it was not proved but declined My Lords when he shall hear the repetition of the Evidence though part of the Article was not particularly insisted upon yet I believe it will appear to your Lordships and the world that he was the occasion of breaking the last Parliament and it is expresly proved by witnesses enough and though he says How should any body think him an occasion of it that did so often advise Parliaments yet I shall shew anon that when he did advise them it was to compass his own Design and Plot without which his ends could not be brought to pass He came from the Four and twentieth Article to the Seven and twentieth and he answers against that Article That when Armies are in the field men cannot walk so peaceably as an Attorney with his Box and Papers in Westminster-Hall I know not what he means but when two Armies are in the field they may raise War against the Kings people as well as the King for his just defence it is the way to make his people terrified with Armies and to avoid them as a Serpent and therefore it is a dangerous aspersion as I conceive With these he concluded except some things that he took by way of artificial insinuation to perswade your Lordships That it was dangerous to raise a Treason that had lain asleep I know not how many hundred years and create a Treason A strange thing indeed it is That a man shall be charged with a Treason for subverting the Law A strange thing that one should be charged with Treason for killing a Justice sitting in the Seat of Justice and yet it should be no Treason to destroy King and Kingdom and people and all all which are destroyed if the Law be subverted And now having touched upon what he hath spoken with your Lordships good favour I shall crave leave to run the course I have propounded with my self and that very briefly that is upon the whole matter to shew how far the Evidence produced on the Commons part doth prove the Charge My Lords That laid to his charge is a design and purpose to subvert the fundamental Laws of two kingdoms and to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government not that he did effect it but that he did intend it for if he had done it it had been too late to question it he had left no rule whereby to call him to Tryal but his intention and his endeavour are his charge My Lords How far this is proved if your Lordships be pleased to call to mind the Articles and the Evidences produced on the Commons part your Lordships will find I believe that his Words his Counsels and his Actions do sufficiently prove his endeavouring to destroy In the first Article where my Lord of Strafford hath the first opportunity offered him to put this endeavour in execution that is the first place of eminency amongst his other Places and Commands which I take it was his being made President of the North he is no sooner there but there be instructions procured to enable him to proceed in that Court almost in all Causes for a man can scarce think of a Cause which is not comprehended within the Instructions obtained after his coming thither but I shall put your Lordship in mind of two clauses of the Instructions procured in the Eighth year of this King and after he was President that is the clause of Habeas Corpus and Prohibitions that no man should obtain a Prohibition to stay any Suit that should be commenced before him in the Council of York That if any man should be imprisoned by any Process out of that Court he must have no Habeas Corpus A Prohibition is the only means to vindicate the estate of the Subject if it be questioned without Authority A Habeas Corpus is the only means to vindicate his Liberty if he be detained without Law but these doors must be shut against the Kings Subjects that if either they be questioned or restrained before him there must be no relief How far he could go further I am to seek there being no means for the Subject to relieve himself if he be questioned for his Estate without authority no means to redeem himself if his person be imprisoned without Law And he had so incircled himself about that if the Judges should find the party that returns not the Habeas Corpus according to Law there was a Power and a Warrant by the Instructions to the Barons to discharge the Officers of that Fine And now I refer it to your Lordships judgements Whether this be not to draw an Arbitrary Power to himself For the execution of this Power it is true it is proved to be before the instructions in the eighth year of the King but then it riseth the more in judgement against him for your Lordships have heard how he went into a grave Judges Chamber blaming him for giving way to a Prohibition granting Attachments against one that moved for a Prohibition and though this was done before the Instructions were granted yet the Instructions coming at the heels of it sheweth his disposition and resolution more clearly for he acts it first and then procures this colour to protect it and though he pretends there was no proof yet I must put your Lordships in mind that when these things were in question concerning the apprehension of a Knight by a Sergeant at Arms he kneels to His Majesty That this defect might be supplyed and this jurisdiction maintained else he might goe to his own Cottage And here being the just commencement of his greatness if you look to the second it follows That at the publick Assizes he declared That some were all for Law but they should find the Kings little finger heavier than the loins of the Law He did not say it was so but he infused it as much as he could into the hearts of the Kings people that they should find it so and so he reflects upon the King and upon his people the words are proved And to speak them in such a presence and at such a time before the Judges and Countrey assembled they were so dangerous and so high expressions of an intention to counsel the King or act it himself to exercise an Arbitrary Government above the weight of the Law as possibly could be exprest by words And this is proved by five witnesses and not disproved nor is any colour of disproof offered but only by Sir William Penniman who says he heard other words but not that he heard not these words If he doth he must give me leave not to believe him for five affirmations will weigh down the proof of a thousand negatives He stays not long in England with this power though while he stays you hear how he vexes
turned the course of the water but changed the nature of it converted it into poyson a legal and just proceeding into a Tyrannical and Arbitrary Government which is not turning but corrupting of the clear and chrystal streams to bitterness and death But yet the Fountain remains clear and perhaps when his hand is taken off you shall have the streams run as pure and uncorrupt as ever they did This is it troubles him remove but this obstacle and the work is perfect and therefore now he will go about to corrupt the streams if he can but infuse his poyson into the Kings heart which is the Fountain then all is done and now he attempts that and approacheth the Throne endeavours to corrupt the Kings Goodness with wicked Counsels but God be thanked he finds there too much Piety to prevail And therefore the next Article is that that charges him to be an Incendiary to the War betwixt the two Kingdoms and now I shall be bold to unfold the mystery and answer his objection To what purpose should he be an Incendiary were it not better to enjoy his Estate in peace and quietness than have it under danger of a War Now your Lordships shall have the Riddle discovered The first thing he doth after his coming into England is to incense the King to a War to involve two Nations of one faith and under one Sovereign to imbrue their hands in each others Blood and to draw Armies into the field That he was this Incendiary give me leave to revive your Lordships memories with the proofs which will make it plain and first give me leave to note unto your Lordships that His Majesty with much wisdom did in Iuly 1639. make a pacification with His Subjects and even at the very heels of this pacification when all things were at peace upon the tenth of September which was the next month but one your Lordships remember the Sentence of Steward in the Star-Chamber of Ireland for not taking the Oath your Lordships may call to mind the language my Lord of Strafford was pleased to use to the Scots when all was in quietness he then calls them no better than Traitors or Rebels if you will believe what the witnesse testifies whom my Lord is pleased to call a Schoolmaster And truly admit he were so because he is a Schoolmaster therefore not to be believed is a non sequitur And another Witness one Loftus speaks to the words though not in the same manner but I say the Tenth of September when things were at peace and rest when the King was pleased to be reconciled to them by that pacification what boiled in his breast then to the breaking forth of such expressions I know not unless it were an intention to be an Incendiary My Lords I must say and affirm and he hath not proved it to the contrary that all this while I am confident there was not any breach of the pacification on either side and it lyes on his part to prove there was But the Parliament of Scotland then sitting and making preparation for their demands in pursuance of the Articles of pacification he coming over into England in September immediately upon the pacification answers That he found things so distracted here that it was fit the Scots should be reduced by force if they could not be otherwise yet no breach appears no War was denounced there was no intention of a War but see what harboured in his breast all the while The fourth of December following my Lord Traquaire made his relation to the Council of the Scots proceedings and all this while there was no Demands brought by the Scots themselves nor reason of their Demands brought by others though they were not prepared yet you have heard his advice was for an offensive War and that the Demands were a just cause of the War And though he pretends he said no more than what the rest of the Lords of the Council concurred with him in I will joyn in issue with him in that and if some of your Lordships be not satisfied you have many noble Lords among you from whom you may be satisfied that it is not so I am sure he proves it not It is true in the proposition of the Demands some of the Lords of the Council did say That these Demands hypothetically if the Scots did not give satisfaction by their reasons were a just cause of War but not any Lord of the Council was of that opinion that the very Demands positively without hearing of the reasons were a just cause of War but himself and I believe the Noble Lords of the Council their Consciences can tell them and I believe will deliver it to the rest of the Peers that I speak truth For the offensive War he pretends a concurrence of the rest but it was disapproved many were for it upon these terms If they did not give reasons and shew just cause for their Demands and many were against an offensive War upon any terms and therefore herein he fixes that upon the Lords of the Council which he cannot make good All this while his intentions are discovered by a matter precedent but after the breach he discovers his anger further towards the Scottish Nation and makes it his design to incense the King to this War My Lords he is not at end yet for he confesses himself that he advised the King to call a Parliament and now I come to his work of merit but it was to his destruction and serves to prove this Article directly for to what purpose was this Parliament called Exitus acta probat it was no sooner set but within three weeks a proposition is made for supply towards a War against the Scots Who was the cause of calling the Parliament himself and therefore who was the cause of this Proposition but himself and so the calling of the Parliament is a concurring evidence of his being an Incendiary to put on the War and it shall appear anon absolutely that he was the occasion of it though he thinks there be no proof of it Did not he go over into Ireland and by his sollicitation there Subsidies were granted by the Parliament only to maintain this War and to shew their ingagement in it and who was the occasion of drawing them on I referr to your Lordships judgements by the circumstances precedent Your Lordships heard his good opinion of the Scots when he began to discourse with the Citizens touching Money and their affording of the King supply and seizing the Mint by giving them no better expositions than Rebels for saith he you are more forward to help the Rebels here than to pay the King his own I know not who he meant but certainly the Scots were in his thoughts so that from the beginning he incensed the War against them First he exclaimed against them during time of peace He alledges in his Answer That things were found in such distraction that it was fit the Scots
should be reduced by force he gave advice precipitately without hearing the reasons and not concurrent to the Council for an offensive War and putting all together I refer it your Lordships judgement who is the Incendiary for how can it be proved more clearly unless it should appear under his Hand and Seal proved by two or three witnesses Now My Lords how comes this to be his design here the Mystery comes to be unfolded Having thus incensed to the War and ingaged the King to the uttermost and having a Parliament now dissolved without supply he sets up an Idol of his own creation as a means to draw on his design and that was necessity necessity is it that must enforce the King what to do to levy Money to use his Prerogative to raise supplies upon His Subjects without their consent against their Will necessity must be his Argument and this War must be the occasion of that necessity and without that he cannot suggest to the Kings ear or advise this necessity till this be brought to pass And now he hath brought it to pass he began in the One and twentieth Two and twentieth and Three and twentieth Article to perswade the King that necessity hath surprized him by the Parliaments deserting of him that the Parliament had forsaken the King in denying supply and having tryed the affections of His people he was loose and absolved from all rules of Government and had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom That he spake these words to the King part is proved by two concurrent Witnesses that is that having tryed the affections of his people he was now loose and absolved from all rules of Government which words are proved by two witnesses of eminent quality that is my Lord of Northumberland and Sir Henry Vane and truly howsoever my Lord in his speech pretends that the most material words are proved but by one witness it seeming that he held it not a material charge that he counselled the King that he was absolved from all Rules of Government for my part if your Lordships be satisfied those words were proved I could willingly satisfy my own conscience in it and make no great matter to quit the rest for I know not how he could express it in higher terms than that the King was absolved from all rules of Government for then he might do what he would It is true the latter words touching the Irish Army are expresly proved but by one witness Mr. Secretary Vane but are fortified again with such circumstances as make up more than one yea more than two other witnesses if your Lordships will have the patience to have it represented as it is proved For howsoever it be slighted by him if your Lordships will call to mind the words of Sir George Ratcliffe his bosom friend to whom he had contributed without question his advice in all causes the said Sir George Ratcliffe expressed it before and told some of his friends supposing that he never should be called in question and that the power of my Lord of Strafford had been enough to protect any thing he had done and out of the abundance of the heart his mouth spake the King must now want no money if he did no body would pity him now he had his sword in his hand Sir Robert King proves it so My Lord Ranalagh discovered the smoak of the fire that he had just cause to suspect and on good grounds I am sure and if the Commons of England had not just cause to suspect him as I believe he is convinced they had good cause what is the reason this suspition should be entertained at that time my Lord of Strafford being not then questioned for it and yet my Lord Ranalagh should say Shall we turn our Swords upon our own bowels Shall we bring this Army to turn the points of our blades upon that Nation from whence we were all derived and that was before any conference with Mr. Secretary Vane Sir William Penniman himself his own witness and friend says at York before my Lord of Strafford was questioned that there was a common fame of bringing the Army into England and there is something in that surely and after all this to produce one witness that expresly proves the very words spoken in terminis as they be charged if your Lordships put the whole together see whether there be not more than one witness And under favour my Lord Cottington if you call to mind his testimony I must justify he did declare That he heard my Lord of Strafford tell the King That some reparation was to be made to the Subjects property which must inferre he had advised an Invasion upon the property else by no good coherence should a reparation be made And that he testifies this I must affirm and most here will affirm it and I think your Lordships well remember it and that is an addition to it for if your Lordships cast your eye upon the Interrogatory administred to my Lord Admiral and my Lord Cottington that very question is asked so that his own conscience told him he had advised somthing to invade upon the people when he advised to a restitution after things should be setled and so I refer it to your Lordships consideration whether here be not more than one witness by far It is true he makes objections to lessen this testimony First That this Army was to be landed at Ayre in Scotland and not here and this was declared to Sir Thomas Lucas Mr. Slingsby Sir William Penniman and others Secondly That others that were present when the words are supposed to be spoken did not hear any such words For the first Perhaps the Army might be originally intended for Scotland and yet this is no contradiction but he might intend it afterwards for England surely this is no Logick that because it was intended for one place it could never be intended for another place so his allegation may be true and the charge stand true likewise Beside that it was intended originally for Scotland what proof makes he He told several persons of the design but I will be tryed by himself he told some it was for Scotland he told others it was for England and why you should believe his telling on one side more than on the other side I know not though he pretends a reason of his several allegations that the world should not know his design but if you will not believe him one way why should he be believed the other way and if not the other way why the first way For the Second Several persons were present when the words were spoken touching the Irish Army and they were examined and remember not the words but one man may hear though twenty do not hear and this is no contradiction at all for those persons whom he examined the Lord Treasurer Marquis Hamilton my Lord Cottington did not hear the words that are proved
concerning the Earl of Strafford shall be Heads of that Conference and that Committee is to manage the Conference Sir Philip Stapleton brings Answer from the Lords That their Lordships do expect His Majesty at their House this Morning and that so soon as His Majesty shall be gone they will send Answer by Messengers of their own Thursday February 18th 1640. The Lords desired a Conference by a Committee of both Houses concerning the Sequestring of Thomas Earl of Strafford from his Offices presently in the Painted Chamber if it may stand with the conveniency of this House To which Answer was returned That they will give a meeting presently for a free Conference Mr. Pym Reports the free Conference Upon Mr. Pyms Report It was Ordered That this Committee viz. Sir Walter Earle Sir Io. Culpepper Mr. Hollis Mr. Solicitor Mr. Vaughan Mr. Hyde Mr. Pym Mr. Maynard Mr. Selden Mr. Palmer Mr. Whitlock Sir Simon D'Ewes Mr. Whistler Mr. Glyn and Mr. Hampden Do take into Consideration the whole matter of the Report of the free Conference now made by Mr. Pym and also what concerns the Right of the Commons in the Proceedings in the Lords House against the Earl of Strafford and what Concerns the Kingdom in general and the Legality of these Proceedings and they are likewise to Consider What is fit for the Commons to claim in Causes of Impeachment and they are to meet this Afternoon at Two of the Clock in the Treasury Chamber Friday February 19th 1640. That the Committee for the Earl of Strafford shall have Liberty to open all Letters directed to Sir George Ratcliff and if they find it worthy the knowledge of the House they are to acquaint the House therewith Ordered That the Committee appointed to consider of the Proceedings in the Lords House against Thomas Earl of Strafford do meet this Afternoon at Two of the Clock in the Treasury Chamber Tuesday February 23. 1640. A Message from the Lords desiring a present Conference by a Committee of both Houses in the Painted-Chamber if it may stand with the convenience of this House concerning the Conference that was Yesterday touching the Proceedings against Thomas Earl of Strafford Answer returned by the same Messenger That this House hath taken into Consideration their Lordships Message and will give a meeting for a free Conference as is desired Mr. Glyn Reports from the Conference That the Lord Keeper delivered the Lords Answer in these words viz. First That We shall admit him no further use of Council than the necessity of the Case for his just Defence requireth and wherein Council may with the Justice and Honour of this House be afforded him Secondly That there shall be no delay in Proceedings but all Expedition used according to their own desires Wednesday February 24th 1640. A Message from the Lords desiring a Conference by a Committee of both Houses touching the Answer of Thomas Earl of Strafford presently if it may stand with the Conveniency of this House Answer returned by the same Messengers That this House will give a meeting presently as is desired Mr. Solicitor Mr. Maynard Mr. Pym Mr. Reynolds Mr. Palmer and Mr. Hampden Are appointed Reporters of the Conference Mr. Solicitor Reports from the Conference That Yesterday was the day the Lords had prefixed for my Lord of Strafford to give in his Answer that accordingly he was there and had given it in and that this Answer which now they had delivered to the Commons was the Answer which the Earl of Strafford was to stand or fall by The engrossed Answer and a Copy of it were both delivered in by the Reporters and was desired that when the Copy was perfectly examined the Original might be delivered to the Clerk of their House Ordered That Mr. Speaker be here this Afternoon at One of the Clock and that the Earl of Strafford's Answer may then be read and considered of The same day in the Afternoon the several Articles of the further Impeachment of Thomas Earl of Strafford by the Commons were all read and to every of the said Articles the particular and several Answers of the said Earl were likewise read The Answer held three hours reading being above 200 sheets of Paper too long to be here inserted yet take an exact Abstract of the said Answer to the Articles exhibited against him which are as followeth Answers to 28 special Articles To the First Article he saith He conceives that the Commission and Instruction differ not from those formerly granted but refers to them and that such Alterations and Additions as were made were for ought he knoweth rather for the explanation than for the enlarging of the Jurisdiction the Care whereof was left to the Secretary of that Council and to the King 's Learned Council to be passed for the good of the King's Service and the Publick Welfare of that Province for Legality of the Proceedings divers eminent Lawyers were joyned with the President who for the Legal parts was by them to be directed He did not advise or procure the enlargement of the Commission and Instructions and he believeth nothing hath been practiced since that was not in former Times contained in former Commissions under general words He believeth Sir Conyers Darcy was lawfully Fined for Misdemeanors as a Justice of Peace and hath heard he being in Ireland that Sir Iohn Boucher was Fined for some great Abuse at the Kings being at York going into Scotland to be Crowned to the Proceedings he refers himself He denies that he hath done any thing by that Commission or Instruction other than he conceived he might by virtue thereof lawfully do To the Second Article He denieth the speaking of those words but saith That 30 40 l. or more being returned as Issues out of the Exchequer against some that had compounded for Knighthood for 10 l. or 20 l. so as the Issues far exceeded the Composition and yet would next time have been increased The said Earl upon this occasion said That now they might see that the little Finger of the Law was heavier than the King's Loins which he spake to nourish good Affections in them towards His Majesty and not to threaten or terrifie any as the Article is supposed To the Third Article he saith Ireland is not Governed by the same Laws that this Kingdom is unless it be meant by the Common Laws their Customs Statutes Execution of Martial Laws Proceedings at Council-Board very much differ they spake not the words in the Article to any such intent He saith It might be fit enough for him to remember them of the great Obligation they had to the King and His Progenitors that suffered them being a Conquer'd Nation to enjoy Freedom and Laws as their own people of this Kingdom and it might be that upon some such occasion he said to those of Dublin That some of their Charters were void and nothing worth and did not bind His Majesty farther than He pleased which he
probable Grounds we are accountable only for our industry or remisness but in judgment We are deeply responsible to God Almighty for it's Rectitude or Obliquity in Cases of Life the Judge is God's Steward of the Parties blood and must give a strict account for every drop But as I told you Mr. Speaker I will not insist long upon the Ground of Difference in me now from what I was formerly The truth on 't is Sir the same Ground whereupon I with the rest of the Five to whom you first committed the Consideration of my Lord Strafford brought down our Opinion That it was fit he should be Accused of Treason upon the same Ground I was engaged with earnestness in his Prosecution and had the same Ground remained in that force of belief with me which till very lately it did I should not have been tender in his Condemnation But truly Sir to deal plainly with you that Ground of our Accusation That Spur to our Prosecution and that which should be the basis of my judgment of the Earl of Strafford as unto Treason is to my understanding quite vanisht away This it was Mr. Speaker His Advising the King to employ the Army of Ireland to reduce England This I was assured would be proved before I gave my consent to his Accusation I was confirmed in the same belief during the Prosecution and fortified in it most of all since Sir Henry Vane's preparatory Examination by the assurances which that worthy Member Mr. Pym gave me that his Testimony would be made convincing by some Notes of what passed at that Iunto concurrent with it which I ever understanding to be of some other Councellor you see now prove but a Copy of the same Secretaries Notes discovered and produc'd in the manner you have heard and those such disjoynted Fragments of the Venemous part of Discourses no Results no Conclusions of Counsels which are the only things that Secretaries should Register there being no use at all of the other but to Accuse and to bring men into danger But Sir this is not that which overthrows the Evidence with me concerning the Army of Ireland nor yet that all the rest of the Iunto upon their Oaths remember nothing of it But this Sir which I shall tell you is that which works with me under favour to an utter overthrow of his Evidence as unto that of the Army of Ireland before whilst I was a Prosecutor and under tie of Secrecy I might not discover any weakness of the Cause which now as a Judge I must Mr. Secretary was examined thrice upon Oath at the preparatory Committee The first time he was questioned to all the Interrogatories and to that part of the Seventh which concerns the Army of Ireland He said positively in these words I cannot Charge him with that But for the rest he desires time to recollect himself which was granted him Some days after he was Examined a second time and then deposes these words concerning the King's being Absolved from Rules of Government and so forth very clearly But being prest to that part concerning the Irish Army He said again I can say nothing to that Here we thought we had done with him till divers weeks after my Lord of Northumberland and all others of the Iunto denying to have heard any thing concerning those words Of reducing England by the Irish Army It was thought fit to Examine the Secretary once more and then he deposes these words to have been said by the Earl of Strafford to His Majesty You have an Army in Ireland which you may Imploy here to reduce or some word to that sense this Kingdom Mr. Speaker these are the Circumstances which I confess with my Conscience thrust quite out of doors that Grand Article of our Charge concerning his desperate Advice to the King of Employing the Irish Army here Let not this I beseech you be driven to an Aspersion upon Mr. Secretary as if he should have Sworn otherwise than he knew or believed he is too worthy to do that only let thus much be inferred from it that he who twice upon Oath with time of recollection could not remember any thing of such a business might well a third time mis-remember somewhat in this business the difference of one letter here for there or that for this quite alters the Case the latter also being more probable since it is confest of all hands that the Debate then was concerning a War with Scotland and you may remember that at the Bar he once said To employ there And thus Mr. Speaker I have faithfully given you an account what it is that hath blunted the edge of the Hatchet or Bill with me towards my Lord of Strafford This was that whereupon I Accused him with a free heart Prosecuted him with earnestness and had it to my understanding been proved should have condemned him with Innocence Whereas now I cannot satisfie my Conscience to do it I profess I can have no notion of any bodies intent to subvert the Laws Treasonably or by force and this design of Force not appearing all his other wicked Practises cannot amount so high with me I can find a more easie and more natural Spring from whence to derive all his other Crimes than from an intent to bring in Tyranny and to make his own Posterity as well as Us Slaves as from Revenge from Pride from Avarice from Passion and Insolence of Nature But had this of the Irish Army been proved it would have diffused a Complexion of Treason over all it would have been a Withe indeed to bind all those other scattered and lesser branches as it were into a Faggot of Treason I do not say but the rest may represent him a man as worthy to die but perhaps worthier than many a Traytor I do not say but they may justly direct Us to Enact That they shall be Treason for the future But God keep me from giving Judgment of Death on any man and of Ruine to his innocent Posterity upon a Law made a Posteriori Let the Mark be set on the door where the Plague is and then let him that will enter die I know Mr. Speaker there is in Parliament a double Power of Life and Death by Bill a Judicial Power and a Legislative the measure of the one is what 's legally just of the other what is Prudentially and Politickly fit for the good and preservation of the whole But these two under favour are not to be confounded in Judgment We must not piece up want of legality with matter of convenience not the defailance of prudential fitness with a pretence of legal Justice To Condemn my Lord of Strafford Judicially as for Treason my Conscience is not assured that the matter will bear it And I do it by the Legislative Power my reason consultively cannot agree to that since I am perswaded neither the Lords nor the King will pass the Bill and consequently that Our passing it will be
Answer returned by the same Messengers That this House has taken their Lordships Message into Consideration and is Resolved to give a meeting at the time and place as is appointed Wednesday April 28th 1641. Post Merid. Ordered That Mr. Solicitor St. Iohn have Power to send for such Records as he shall think needful for that Service committed unto him for maintaining the Point of Law in the Case of the Earl of Strafford The same Committee as was formerly appointed to keep the Doors at Westminster-Hall is appointed to keep the Doors again to morrow Mr. Solicitor and Mr. Maynard and Mr. Glyn appointed as Assistants unto him are to sit in the most convenient places in the middle of the lower Rank Mr. Edward Hide went up to the Lords with this Message to acquaint their Lordships That the House hath received such Information as hath moved some Fears in them that the Earl of Strafford may have a design to Escape that he hath Ships at Sea at Command and that the Guards about him are weak therefore to desire their Lordships he may be a close Prisoner and the Guards strengthened Mr. Hide brings this Answer That their Lordships had heretofore given Directions to the Lieutenant of the Tower that he should be close Prisoner and take Care for a stronger Guard and will take it into Examination and give Directions as is desired Friday April 30th 1641. Post Merid. Ordered That Mr. Solicitor be required from this House to bring in a particular Copy of his Argument Yesterday in Westminster-Hall and likewise that Mr. Pym bring him a Copy of the Speeches spoken by him in Westminster-Hall both at the beginning and latter end of the Trial of the Earl of Strafford A Copy of the Paper posted up at the Corner of the Wall of Sir William Bronkard's House in the Old Palace-Yard in Westminster declaring the following Names to be Enemies of Iustice. The Lord Digby Lord Compton Lord Buckhurst Sir Robert Hatton Sir Thomas Fanshaw Sir Edward Alford Nicholas Slanning Sir Thomas Danby Sir George Wentworth Sir Peter Wentworth Sir Fred. Conwallis Sir William Carnaby Sir Richard Winn Sir Gervas Cliffton Sir William Withrington Sir William Pennyman Sir Patrick Carwin Sir Richard Lee Sir Henry Slingsby Sir William Portman Mr. Gervas Hollis Mr. Sydney Godolphin Mr. Cook Mr. Coventry Mr. Kirton Mr. Pollard Mr. Price Mr. Trevanyon Mr. Ieane Mr. Edgcombe Mr. Ben. Weston Mr. Selden Mr. Alford Mr. Loyd Mr. Herbert Captain Digby Serjeant Hyde Mr. Tayler Mr. Richard Weston Mr. Griffith Mr. Scawen Mr. Bridgman Mr. Fettyplace Doctor Turner Captain Charles Price Doctor Parry a Civilian Mr. Richard Arundel Mr. Newport Mr. Nowell Mr. Chichley Mr. Mallory Mr. Porter Mr. White Secretary to E. D. Mr. Warwick It is a Presumption that these Names were thus Posted up by some of those who came in multitudes to the Parliament House but he that took the List of their Names as Mr. Elsing told the Author was one Mr. W who Served for some Borough in the County of Wilts and who did not afterwards go to the King at Oxford in time of War though his Wife did but he staid in the Parliament to do what friendly Office he could for the King and his Party It is probable he gave a Copy of those Names to some Friends not intending to have the same made Publick in that manner The Name of one Member of the House that was in the List who is omitted in this viz. Sir Iohn Strangwayes who was not then in Town but Sir Iohn after his Return out of Dorsetshire complained that his Name was Posted up amongst others and moved that the business might be Examined how the List came abroad and was made Publick as aforesaid he being then in the Country Wednesday May 5th 1641. Mr. Solicitor is appointed to bring in his Argument he made in Westminster-Hall at the Trial of the Earl of Strafford on Monday last A Message from the Lords by Judge Reeves and Judge Forster That they give this House Thanks for sitting so long that they are still in Debate of the Bill against the Earl of Strafford so that this Night they cannot be ready for a Conference Saturday May 8th 1641. A Message from the Lords by Judge Forster and Judge Heath That the Bill of Attainder of Thomas Earl of Strafford is passed their House without any Alteration or Amendments Ordered That a Message be sent to the Lords to desire a free Conference by a Committee of both Houses concerning the Bill of Attainder of Thomas Earl of Strafford Mr. Hotham is to go up with this Message Mr. Pym is to manage this Conference the substance whereof is That in regard the Peace of the Kingdom doth much consist in the Execution of the Bill of Attainder of Thomas Earl of Strafford to desire their Lordships to move His Majesty as speedily as may be to give His Assent Mr. Hotham brings Answer That the Lords will give a present meeting at a free Conference by a Committee of both Houses as is desired Mr. Pym Reports That he had performed the Command of this House Ordered That this House shall joyn with the Lords to attend His Majesty to appoint a time when He would be pleased to set concerning His Assent to the Bill of Attainder of Thomas Earl of Strafford Mr. Pym brings word That the Lords have sent to His Majesty and this House shall hear from them very speedily A Message from the Lords by Judge Forster and Judge Heath That the Lords appointed by their House attended His Majesty who appointed that both Houses should attend Him at Four of the Clock in the Banqueting-House concerning the Bill of Attainder That they have Passed the Bill concerning the not Dissolving the Parliament Monday May 10th 1641. The Gentleman-Usher of the Black-Rod came to signifie to the House That His Majesties Assent to the Bill of Attainder is now to be given by Commission and that the Lords did expect Mr. Speaker and the House of Commons to come up Articles of the Commons Assembled in Parliament against Thomas Earl of Strafford in Maintenance of their Accusation whereby he stands Charged with High Treason WHereas the said Commons have already Exhibited Articles against the said Earl in haec verba Now the said Commons do further Impeach the said Earl as followeth That is to say I. That the said Earl of Strafford the 21th day of March in the Eighth Year of His Majesties Reign was President of the King's Council in the Northern parts of England That the said Earl being President of the said Council on the 21th of March a Commission under the Great Seal of England with certain Schedules of Instructions thereunto annexed was directed to the said Earl or others the Commissioners therein named whereby among other things Power and Authority is limitted to the said Earl and others the Commissioners therein named to hear and determine all Offences and Misdemeanors Suits Debates Controversies and
time or no. The Lord High Steward answered that their Lordships Commandment is to let his Lordship know That if the House of Commons proceed not by their Members to manage the Evidence this day then what his Lordship hath to say to this House may be put off to another time And so their Lordships Adjourned to the House above by which is meant the House where the Lords use to sit in Parliament and appointed the next morning to proceed in this business The Second day Tuesday March 23. 1640 THeir Lordships being set the Lord Steward recited in brief the proceedings of the day before adding that naturally and properly it belongs in the next place for those whom the House of Commons have deputed to manage their Evidence in pursuance of the Articles of Impeachment to begin the work of the day Then Mr. Pym one of the Committee appointed for the management of the Evidence began as followeth My Lords We stand here by the Commandment of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses now assembled for the Commons in Parliament And we are ready to make good that Impeachment whereby Thomas Earl of Strafford stands charged in their Name and in the Name of all the Commons of England with High Treason This My Lords is a Great Cause and we might sink under the weight of it and be astonished with the Lustre of this Noble Assembly if there were not in the Cause strength and vigour to support it self and to encourage us It is the Cause of the King it concerns His Majesty in the Honour of His Government in the Safety of His Person in the Stability of His Crown It is the Cause of the Kingdom It concerns not only the Peace and Prosperity but even the Being of the Kingdom We have that piercing Eloquence the Cries and Groans and Tears and Prayers of all the Subjects assisting us We have the three Kingdoms England and Scotland and Ireland in Travail and Agitation with us bowing themselves like the Hindes spoken of in Iob to cast out their Sorrows Truth and Goodness My Lords they are the Beauty of the Soul they are the Perfection of all created Natures they are the Image and Character of God upon the Creatures This Beauty Evil Spirits and Evil Men have lost but yet there are none so wicked but they desire to march under the shew and shadow of it though they hate the reality of it This unhappy Earl now the Object of your Lordships Justice hath taken as much care hath used as much cunning to set a face and countenance of Honesty and Justice upon his Actions as he hath been negligent to observe the rules of Honesty in the Performance of all these Actions My Lords it is the greatest baseness of wickedness that it dares not look in his own Colours nor be seen in its natural Countenance But Virtue as it is amiable in all respects so the least is not this That it puts a Nobleness it puts a Bravery upon the Mind and lifts it above Hopes and Fears above Favour and Displeasure it makes it always uniform and constant to it self The Service Commanded me and my Colleagues here is to take off those Vizards of Truth and Uprightness which hath been sought to be put upon this Cause and to shew you his Actions and his Intentions in their own natural Blackness and Deformity My Lords He hath put on a Vizard of Truth in these words wherein he says That he should be in his Defence more careful to observe Truth than to gain Advantage to himself He says he would endure any thing rather than be saved by Falshoood It was a noble and brave Expression if it were really true My Lords He hath likewise put on the Vizard of Goodness on his Actions when he desires to recite his Services in a great many particulars as if they were Beneficial to the Common-wealth and State whereas we shall prove them Mischievous and Dangerous It is left upon me My Lords to take off these Vizards and Appearances of Truth and Goodness in that part of his Answer which is the Preamble And that I shall do with as much Faithfulness and Brevity as I can 1. The First thing My Lords that I shall observe in the Preamble is this That having recited all those great and honourable Offices which he hath done under His Majesty he is bold to affirm That he hath been careful and faithful in the Execution of them all My Lords If he might be his own Witness and his own Judge I doubt not but he would be Acquitted It is said in the Proverbs of the Adulterous Woman That she wipes her mouth and says she had done no Evil. Here is a wiping of the mouth here is a verbal expression of Honesty But My Lords the foulness and unjustness will never be wiped off neither from his Heart nor from his Actions I mean for the time past God may change him for the time to come That is the first thing I observe 2. My Lords In the second place out of his Apologetical Preamble I shall observe this He doth magnifie his own Endeavours in five particulars 1. That he hath Endeavoured the maintenance of Religion I may miss in words I shall not miss in sense 2. That he hath Endeavoured the Honour of the King 3. The Encrease of His Revenue 4. The Peace and Honour and Safety of the Kingdom 5. The Quiet and Peace of the People These are his five particulars and I shall give a short Answer to every one of them 1. For Religion My Lords we say and we shall prove that he hath been diligent indeed to favour Innovations to favour Superstitions to favour the Incroachments and Usurpations of the Clergy But for Religion it never received any advantage by him nay a great deal of hurt 2. For the Honour of the King My Lords We say it is the Honour of the King that He is the Father of His People that He is the Fountain of Justice and it cannot stand with His Honour and Justice to have His Government Stain'd and Polluted with Tyranny and Oppression 3. For the Increase of His Revenue It is true there may be some Addition of Sums but we say There is no Addition of Strength nor Wealth because in those parts where it hath been increased this Earl hath taken the greatest share himself And when he hath spoiled and ravined on the People he hath been content to yield up some part to the King that he might with more security enjoy the rest 4. For the Strength and Honour and Safety of the Kingdom My Lords In a time of Peace he hath let in upon us the Calamities of War Weakness Shame and Confusion 5. And for the Quiet of the Subjects He hath been an Incendiary he hath Armed us amongst our selves and made us weak and naked to all the World besides This is that I shall answer to the second Head of his Apology 3. The Third is
particular witnesses only I shall humbly desire That the Remonstrance of the Parliament of Ireland both of the Lords and of the Commons may be read And they will give a sufficient Testimony of the quality of his Justice 14. The 14th My Lords is this That he hath been a Means to His Majesty for a Parliament in England It is true he was And it is as true that we count that as mischievous a part of his design as any thing else Into what a miserable Dilemma My Lords did he bring the Kingdom that we must surrender the Liberties of the Kingdom in Parliament or see them oppressed with Force and Violence out of Parliament The particulars of this I shall leave for the instant for there is an Article that concerns this I have now passed through all the material parts of the Apologetical Preamble He concludes with a desire That he may not be charged with Errors of his understanding or Judgment being not bred up in the Law or with weakness to which humane Nature is subject Truly it would be far from us to charge him with any such mistakes No My Lords we shall charge him with nothing but what the Law in every mans breast condemns the Light of nature the Light of common reason the Rules of common Society And that will appear in all the Articles which my Colleagues will offer to you My Lords I have some few Witnesses which I shall desire may be heard to the points I have opened and I shall in the first place desire that Sir Pierce Crosby may be heard concerning the breach of Priviledge in Parliament Also Sir Iohn Clotworthy Nich. Barnewell Nich. Plunket and Sir Iames Montgomery I have some Witnesses to the point of Revenue Sir Robert Pye Sir Edward Warder and Sir Adam Loftus Gentlemen You who are of the Committee I am commanded to let you know That the Lords will allow you all the Testimonies you can produce to make good the Impeachment but the Witnesses which you do produce must be deposed before their Lordships Mr. Pym replied My Lords the Commons agree to it and in the first place we shall call Sir Pierce Crosby who was sworn accordingly My Lords I humbly crave leave whether I may not make my exception to any Witness Yes you may We desire to be heard upon that point of Exception That if my Lord of Strafford will make any Exception why a Witness should not be heard at all it may be according to the Rules of Justice The Lord High Steward declaring the Prisoner might except against the person of the Witness if he have just Cause my Lord of Strafford proceeded in substance as followeth My Lords I humbly conceive that I have against this Gentleman Sir Pierce Crosby just occasion of Exception as not being a competent Witness for that the said Sir Pierce hath been sentenced in the Star-Chamber for a very undue practise against me tending to no less than the taking away of my Life charging me and practising to prove it by Testimony of witness that I had killed a man in Ireland whom I protest I did never so much as touch That ever since the said Sir Pierce having broke Prison and made an Escape out of the Fleet he hath remained abroad and never came hither till such time as the Parliament sate here and now is returned to make Complaint in this business against me or indeed against the Court of Star-Chamber rather And standing thus whether the said Sir Pierce shall be allowed a Witness against me I humbly refer it to Your Lordships Judgments My Lords We expected my Lord of Strafford would have shown on what reason Sir Pierce was censured for a man Criminous in one kind may be nevertheless fit to give Testimony in another kind If it be a particular practice against my Lord of Strafford when their Lordships have heard what that practice was and have heard likewise the Witness they will believe him according to the weight of the Testimony compared with the fault or whatsoever else is in the Sentence But in the mean time they conceive it is no Exception but that the Witness should be heard This that is charged on my Lord of Strafford being a Crime of High Treason it concerns the Common-wealth the King being party and not the Witness that is produced And whereas it is informed that Sir Pierce Crosby brake Prison The Gentleman tells us it is not so he paid the Kings Fine and so was discharged But though he had it will not take away his Testimony when he is present which he said he spake only to give satisfaction to that aspersion I must desire their Lordships directions whether Sir Pierce Crosby be allowed notwithstanding my Lord of Straffords exceptions against him and Mr. Maynards allegations why his Testimony should be given in this case or no And divers of their Lordships called to have the House Adjourned to the House above that they might there debate and determine it Mr. Pym did thereupon offer that they will at present lay him aside till their Lordships have had opportunity to consider and bring him again to morrow whereunto Mr. Maynard added this further We desire rightly to express our selves to Your Lordships We will lay him aside till Your Lordships have heard others not that they wave him wholly And we pray it may be so entred The Lord Steward declaring it so to be It is so understood In the next place we desire that Sir Iohn Clotworthy may be called whom we produce to this point That during the Parliament in Ireland for speaking against a Bill in the Commons House he was threatned by Sir George Ratcliffe whom we take to be bound up in one Cause with my Lord of Strafford and to be moved by my Lord of Straffords spirit and that Parliaments are not Priviledges when Parliament Liberties are not observed Sir Iohn Clotworthy was sworn My Lords We desire he may be asked whether for having delivered his Opinion against a Bill preferred to the Parliament in Ireland by the Earl of Strafford about the 10th year of this King he was not asked by Sir George Ratcliffe concerning a Lease that he had the question intimating a Threat that he should suffer for speaking so freely To which he answered My Lords In the 10th year of the King I serving in Ireland in Parliament did Vote against a Bill as soon as I had Voted against it Sir George Ratcliffe being one of the Tellers on his counting the numbers how many Yea's and how many No's He came to me and said thus Have not you a Lease in such a place I told him yea remember that saith he This is all I can remember And this he added was in the Commons House 2. He being interrogated whether he knew any thing of Sir Pierce Crosbies Commitment or no He answered I know it only
by hear-say he was a Member of the House when I had the Honour to serve I heard the expression of Sir George Ratcliffe at that time And the common voice was that he was under restraint but I saw him not Being asked whether there was any other occasion of these words but his said Vote He answered Truly My Lords I can apprehend none 4. Being asked whether he heard Sir George Ratcliffe threaten Sir Pierce Crosby in Parliament He answered I heard Sir Pierce Crosby speaking against a Bill in Parliament and as soon as he had sate down from speaking against the Bill Sir George Ratcliffe said to him That is not Privy-Councellor like or to that purpose I heard him To the point of Sir Pierce Crosbies being sequestred from the Council upon his speaking in Parliament The Lord Ranulagh being sworn was interrogated whether about the 10th year of the King he knew Exception to be taken against Sir Pierce Crosby for delivering his Opinion in Parliament and what proceedings were against him thereupon He answered My Lords to the best of my remembrance Sir Pierce Crosby being a Privy-Councellor in Ireland was charged at the Council-Board for Voting against a Bill that was transmitted by the Lord Deputy and Council and hereupon the Opinion of the Board was asked and by the advice of that Board Sir Pierce Crosby was sequestred from the Council This is as much as I can remember 2. Being asked by whom he was sequestred He answered By the Deputy and the Council 3. Being asked who began the Question He answered My Lord Deputy charged him My Lords I humbly desire that my Lord Ranulagh may be asked whether when things are handled at the Council-Table the Deputy be not the man that propounds them to the Council or no not as a party complaining but as belonging to the duty of his place And how he behaved himself in that business To which the Lord Ranulagh being interrogated Answered It is the constant course for the Deputy to propose the things that be brought to the Board and seldom doth any of the Council propound any thing but the Proposition comes from the Deputy But being further asked on the Committees motion whether this of Sir Pierce Crosbies came to the Board by motion of my Lord alone or that any other moved him in it or conveyed it to him He answered I cannot charge my memory where it had beginning but as I remember My Lord Deputy Wandesford that died last and Mr. Wandsford and Sir George Ratcliffe were movers of it but whether it moved originally from them or from my Lord himself I know not I rather believe it proceeded from my Lord Deputy as being proper for him The Lord Mountnorris sworn and interrogated whether he was present at Council-Table when Sir Pierce Crosby was sequestred from Council-Table and for what Reasons he was sequestred He answers I was then present at Board and he was removed on Complaint made by Sir George Ratcliffe at the Board touching his Voting of a Bill in Parliament And when he said it was not spoken like a Councellor he said he would answer it to him that made him a Councellor That was the effect as I can remember of his Accusation and there were several others that testified the same words that Sir George Ratcliffe accused him of and that was the reason he was sequestred by most Voices at Council-Table though he had many Votes with him And being further asked what my Lord of Straffords Vote was He answered It was for his Sequestration Mr. Nicholas Barnewell sworn Being asked whether for his delivering his Opinion in Parliament Sir George Ratcliffe did ask whether the said Mr. Barnewell's house was capacious to receive 500 men to be laid upon him intimating thereby that he must look for Soldiers to be laid upon him for that reason He answered There was a Debate in the House concerning certain Boroughs sequestred from the House by reason of a Judgment in the Exchequer which the House conceived an Erronious Judgment and were of Opinion that the old Boroughs should be called in I was of that Opinion Sir George Ratcliffe was of another Opinion and would have another question debated And coming out of the House he asked me Will not your House hold Five hundred men I answered you know what my house will hold as well as my self and I smiling at it he answered But it is no laughing matter you shall have 500 men laid on you I desire it may be asked when this was spoken He answered It was in November last and that my Lord of Strafford was not then in the Kingdom Mr. Pym observed That the Spirit of my Lord of Strafford could move in Sir George Ratcliffe wheresoever it was spoken And Mr. Barnewell added it was done in November then last In the next place We shall shew the untruth of that part of my Lord of Straffords Preamble that says The Soldiers in Ireland are disposed with so much contentment to the People that they are no burden to them Mr. Egor was called for a Witness and Sworn Being interrogated whether he knew of any Soldiers Billetted in Dublin whether they were not a Grievance whether that City hath not a special Charter of Exemption He answered May it please Your Lordships the City of Dublin doth bear the Charge of 40 Horse and pays to them 45 l. a month for Billetting which is conceived they should not bear in regard they have a Charter that says Nullus Mareschallus Capiat hospitium intra Civitatem and therefore they conceive it a heavy burden and it is as much as a Subsidy And another part of the City standing in another County pays 10 l. a month so they pay in all 55 l. a month I humbly desire he may be asked whether before my Lord of Straffords time and as long as he can remember The Lord-Deputies Foot-guard and Horse-Companies were not Billetted in Dublin He answered To the Foot-guard when my Lord of Faulkland was there they gave Lodging continually but it was never drawn to matter of money And till now we had never Horse upon us except it were for a month or so In the next place We humbly desire the Remonstrance of the Nobility and the House of Commons in Ireland might be read as Testimonies of my Lord of Straffords Justice I desire to know whether questions are to be asked of matters not contained in the Charge as the Remonstrance is not My Lords The Subverting of the Laws and Corruption in Government and Justice is generally laid in the Charge and he hath answered that he hath administred Justice with Integrity And this we produce to shew That the frontespiece of his Answer is in that part untrue To prove the Truth of the Copy of the Lords Remonstrance now produced the Lord Digby of Ireland was Sworn and he on his Oath said That the Copy
was delivered him at his coming over by the Clerk of the Lords House in Ireland to be brought over hither by Order of the Lords there And the Lord Baltinglasse Deposed That he knew it to be the Clerks hand and they were both present at the Voting of it The same was read bearing date February 22. 1640. The Protestation and Declaration of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled We desire to apply it to disprove part of the Preamble of my Lord of Straffords Answer I desire my Lord Digby may be asked whether he gave his Vote to this Protestation We produce it not as the Act of any particular man but of the Lords Your Lordships may observe that this is fallen out since my Impeachment of High Treason here And that it is followed by Faction and Correspondence as in time might be made appear if I could undertake it and a strong Conspiracy against me My Lords These words are not to be suffered Charging the House of Commons with Faction Correspondency and Conspiracy We desire Your Lordships Justice in this God forbid I should think there was or could be any thing in that House or any Member of it but that which agrees with Truth and Justice and Equity I must profess to Your Lordships I had no Reflection or Intention either upon the Lords House there or upon the Honourable House of Commons here but upon certain Persons that are not Members of the House here that have Correspondency with them in Ireland that are not Members of the House there We must consult with the House of Commons concerning the prosecution of this Exception to his words and in the mean time we will reserve it to our selves and so we shall proceed We desire the Remonstrance made by the House of Commons in Ireland being deposed unto by Patrick Gough That about February 25. it was delivered him sealed up in a box with other things before his face being called on by the House to be brought to the Committee for Irish affairs in England may be read Which Remonstrance was read accordingly Your Lordships may observe That my Lord of Straffords glorious Declaration of his own Merits was confuted by the whole Parliament and that the whole sum of the Charge is confirmed by the Testimony of all Ireland To the point of Revenue of Ireland for the contradicting of my Lord of Straffords Affirmation That Ireland supporteth its own Charge Sir Edward Warder produced and Sworn was interrogated when the last money was sent out of this Kingdom for support of His Majesties Affairs of Ireland He answered The last money sent over for payment of the Army there was in the Term of Easter 1621. and it was 10000 l. in full of 20000 l. for one whole years charge beginning the first of April 1619. and ending the last of March following which was 17 Iac. Being interrogated whether since that time the State here hath been actually charged with the Affairs of Ireland He answered Nothing hath been issued out of the Receipt of His Majesties Exchequer for the Maintenance of Ireland since this time only such moneys as have been lately issued for the Army and what hath been issued to the Treasurer of the Navy and the Officers of it for the maintaining of Ships on the Coast but otherwise no money hath been issued as a constant setled thing out of the Receipt of His Majesties Exchequer for any thing arising since the last of March 1620. I desire he may be asked what was since issued for the Navy We admit that the Charge of the Navy continued divers years after yet a few years before my Lord of Straffords Government it was taken off too The Manager did so open it and Sir Edward Warder did in effect set it forth so Therefore that question was waved Sir Robert Pye produced and Sworn to that point of Revenue and being interrogated to the same purpose Answered No money hath issued out of the Receipt but as Sir Edward Warder delivered it and I know of no other money but only for the Maritime parts something hath been paid to the Treasurer of the Navy And besides the 50000 l. of late I know not any The Lord Mountnorris was called upon and being asked whether the Charge of 7000 l. a year for the Navy of Ireland was not taken off a year before my Lord of Straffords Government He answered I cannot say the sum was 7000 l. But two of the Whelps employed there before my Lord of Strafford came to the Government were defrayed whether wholly or in part I cannot tell but they had good large sums of money and were paid in the Kingdom I desire my Lord Mountnorris may be asked whether when I came to the Government the constant Charge did not exceed the constant Revenue and how much It is true the Irish gave sixscore Thousand pounds towards the Charge so that the Supply came out of Ireland though not out of the constant Revenue of Ireland but it came not out of this Kingdom He further answered the Constant Revenue did not do it There was a Contribution by Loan from the Country to supply it but before my Lord of Faulkland went over I heard my Lord of Middlesex tell him They must look for no more money England had nourished Ireland long enough she must now live upon her own Milk The reason why money did not go out was because 120000 l. was supplyed by a Contribution notwithstanding which when he came to serve the King in that Kingdom the Crown was indebted very near 100000 l. Sterling He hath received 300000 l. for Subsidies It will Appear on Accompts to be bestowed faithfully and justly every penny for the King To the point of my Lord of Straffords taking of 24000 l. of the Kings money and disposing it for a year and a half notwithstanding His Majesties Wants and the Necessities of the Army Sir Adam Loftus Vice-Treasurer produced and Sworn was interrogated whether my Lord of Strafford had not 24000 l. out of the Kings Revenue and how long time and when was it paid in He answered My Lord of Strafford and Sir George Ratcliffe had never a penny out of the Exchequer but on such Warrants as I durst not deny them for their due Entertainment and other things importing His Majesties Service But I must confess that they being Partners in the Customs some moneys were to be paid for the profits of the Customs which were in arrear and Sir George Ratcliffe moved me to give discharges for it and he would give me my Lord Lieutenants Bond and his own for paying of it upon demand which I accepted of and accordingly did give those discharges Whence observe discharges are money for so much money should have been paid in and if it be intercepted the King wants His money Being
have opened That Law might no where stand against his Will and to settle it that he might continue so My Lord hath declared this in incroaching Jurisdiction where it was not in exercising an Arbitrary Power under that Jurisdiction In taking on him a Power to make Laws In Domineering and Tyrannizing over the Lives the Liberties the Goods the Estates and whatsoever is the Subjects And My Lords this hath he done not only on those of the meaner sort that could not resist him but on the Peers on the greatest and most ancient Nobility of Ireland And what might Your Lordships expect but the same measure at his hands had his Will had its passage here which it had in Ireland I shall now come to the particular Articles 1. And first Whereas it pleased His Majesty to place him with Power and Honour in his hand in the North as President he had not been long there but that Commission which bounded and pleased his Predecessors he must needs surmount and overgo There was a Commission in 16 Iac. which the then Lord Deputy had in which was that Legal phrase Secundum antiquum cursum his own Commission 4 Car. pursued that without any alteration but being in but four years this would not please his boundless Ambition he must needs have the Power that the Lords in the Star-Chamber have put in in express terms a Power to proceed according to the course of the Chancery that his Conscience might limit other mens Estatâ— That his Injunctions might stay other Proceedings at Law And which is highest of all if any thing be done in that Court within these Instructions than no Prohibition should be Awarded He would make himself safe from any supervising of other Courts If he Committed any man to Prison though a Habeas Corpus were granted then which the Subject hath no other remedy to vindicate his Liberty the Officer for the encouragement of those which be under his Power must not obey it And if any Fine be put upon the Officer then comes a command in this Commission That the Fine shall be discharged so he not only takes a Power to himself but also takes the Scepter of Justice out of the Kings Hands for by this means there is an impossibility the Subject should have the Justice that my Lord knows is due to him and he knows it right well for when he was a Member of the House of Parliament it was his own motion who now stands at the Barr That all the Officers and Ministers of State should serve the King according to that Law and he is the first Officer and Minister of State that breaks it and in the most transcendent degree that ever it was broken My Lords He doth in this as much as in him lies say to the Laws Do your worst You can but Fine and that you can do shall come to nothing The Fine shall not be paid The Officer shall not obey you If this had been a single Act we should never have accused him of this Treason though it comes very High and very Transcendent But the Oppressions and Injustice the Councels and Speeches that we present to Your Lordships we present them not singly but as together designing and noting what a Treasonable purpose and disposition is in him 2. My Lords The next thing he doth when he is in the North among the Justices of the Peace and the People attending for Justice you shall see what Encouragement he gives them to look for it and how foul a thing he dares to fling on the Sacred Majesty that did advance him He tells the Justices that were to do Justice and the People that were to receive Justice That some of the Justices were all for Law but they should find The Kings little Finger is heavier than the Loyns of the Law Your Lordships may consider what a transcendent Speech this was out of whose Mouth it came what sad Accidents happened upon it nothing could move this Lord to utter it but his Will and his Violence must out though he burst a Kingdom in pieces for it 3. The next thing is this When he goes into Ireland you will find his Temper and Spirit not a whit Allayed but now being further from His Majesties Person he is higher in his Power and in his Will It is true that Kingdom was annexed to this many years ago but they that now possess the greatest part of it are Subjects of this Kingdom descended from them that went from hence thither Yet he tells them in a solemn Speech not suddenly but solemnly That Ireland is a Conquered Nation and the King might do with them what he would and that their Charters were nothing worth and bind the King no longer than he pleases Surely My Lords We might see what he would do if he had Power But God be blessed we find not that disposition any where resented by His Majesty and we hope that such Councels shall never have Access to so good and gracious an Ear. 4. The next thing he stays not in words but will be as good as his word if he can and he begins high For that we present next is a Peer of the Kingdom thrust out of his Possession by my Lord of Straffords Order and when he Sues at Law for recovery of his Right my Lord Threatens him Truly Threatnings are not good in such a case where a man Sues for Justice And from him that ought to Administer Justice and further him in it yet he Threatens him Imprisonment to which Peers are not ordinarily liable First my Lord tells him He will not have Law nor Lawyers question his Orders he might debar the Lawyers in some Cases but why a man should have a Spleen at the Law that his Orders should not be examined by that I know not And he goes higher for when there was an occasion to speak of an Act of State he tells him That he will make him and all Ireland know that as long as he had the Government there any Act of State made or to be made should be as binding as an Act of Parliament My Lords He cannot go higher in Speeches than this That an Act of State of his own making and his own Power should be as binding as an Act of Parliament Nay he tells them in Parliament That they were a Conquered Nation and must expect Laws as from a Conquerour 5. Next we shall shew divers Instances wherein he exercises Power over the Lives Lands and all that is the Subjects deduced into several Articles viz. the 5th the 6th the 7th and the 8th In particular one I shall be bold to open That is the Case of my Lord Mountnorris another Peer of that Kingdom and a great Officer there Some words fell from that Lord speaking of one that had trodden on my Lord of Straffords Toe That he hoped the Party did it not in Revenge for he had a Brother that would not have sought such a Revenge For these
man without the precincts of the Court. That my Lord of Strafford fell on his Knees and besought the King That if his Instructions might not be so good as to bring in a Delinquent that had affronted the Court if by stepping over the water he should go beyond the precincts of it he might leave that Service and lay his Bones in his own Cottage That his Father was Arrested in November 1632. as he takes it and was kept 18 Weeks before he was discharged Evers Gower Sworn and Interrogated about the time of his Fathers Arrest Answered That it was in November 1632. and his Father kept in Prison 14 or 18 Weeks but referred to his Brothers Deposition for a more particular Answer To the matter of Prohibitions Iohn Musgrave Sworn was examined Whether he knew of any Prohibition sued forth in Vaux his Cause And whether a Warrant were granted to Attach What Threats my Lord of Strafford used to the party that sued it out being after Octavo Caroli After some Exceptions taken to it by the Earl of Strafford as not being within the Charge The Witness Answered That he knew of an English Suit between Musgrave and Vaux That upon notice given by Musgrave a Prohibition was procured Direction was given that an Affidavit should be made of serving the Prohibition That Affidavit being made a Warrant was directed to the Pursevant or his Deputy to Arrest Vaux On which he was Arrested and Rescued That after Affidavit made of the Rescue a further Warrant was sued forth for bringing in of the Rescuers from London which Warrant was now produced That the Rescuers being thereupon brought to Yorke and having lain several days in Prison an Information was Exhibited by Sir George Ratcliffe then the Kings Attorney at Yorke by relation of Francis Musgrave To which they did Answer And after upon full hearing That before the Censure he the Deponent in Michaelmas Term before 1632. did come to London on behalf of Francis Musgrave to move the Court of Common-Pleas to have the Prohibition dissolved And likewise Vaux did procure a Rule for a Prohibition in the Information Cause which the Witness offered to shew under the Court Hand That it was moved by Sir Robert Heath that the difference might be referred to Mr. Justice Hutton and Sir Robert Heath That he the Deponent undertook for Musgrave and Vaux did submit That afterwards by Sir George Ratcliffes direction thinking it not fit to refer the Cause it concerning the Jurisdiction of the Court of York My Lord President being acquainted with it the Reference went not on that Term but stayed till the Presidents pleasure was known with which Mr. Justice Hutton was made acquainted That in December upon his this Deponents return to York and upon hearing the Information Cause December 1632. Sir George Ratcliffe did offer to the Court the Lord President being there whether he might go on in the Information Cause for that there was a Reference between Musgrave and Vaux to Justice Hutton and Sir Robert Heath or whether the Reference might go on or no That the Lord President thereupon answered That a Rule for a Prohibition was no Prohibition but if there were one he would not obey it And whosoever brought a Prohibition there he would lay him by the heels And as he the Deponent remembred he directed his Speech to the Register of the Court and told him there was a Letter from the King to that purpose but that he said he could not very well remember And as touching the Reference my Lord said It was a Cause that concerned the Jurisdiction of the Court of York and no private man should end it He would try the Jurisdiction of the Court upon it and the next Term would go to London and acquaint the Judges with it and if they remanded the Cause back again so if not he would Appeal to the King in it That after Christmas in Candlemas Term 1632. He the Deponent went to London with my Lord and moved again for dissolving the Prohibition and for Liberty to proceed That again it was agreed between the Judges of that Court and my Lord to have a Treaty And several Treaties they had but could not agree The effect of the Treaty was That if a Trial could be directed at Law upon a fained Action I should go to Law reserving the Equity to the Court if not that the Judges would remand the Cause back again But after they had several days met and no Trial could be directed nor any Action devised at Law to try it my Lord thereupon said He would give no further meeting but would Appeal to the King and the party should Petition On which a Petition was drawn which the Deponent offered And the Judge speaking something of Vaux my Lord said he should not be in England but he would have his Body or words to that purpose F. Thorpe Sworn being interrogated touching some words he heard Mr. Justice Hutton speak touching these Prohibitions and some other things in that point He Answered He would give the best account he could of what passed being divers years since That he was with Justice Hutton in his Study and they had Conference together as they had many times touching that height that my Lord of Strafford was pleased to carry the business of York-shire with And that amongst other things my Lord was pleased to say my Lord had been with him and shewed himself very angry with him because he had granted a Prohibition And this is all he could remember He took it to be seven years ago and in the Cause that concerned Vaux as he took it and this was at London And added That the Judge spake with a great deal of Passion to think things should be carried in that manner as they were that the Judges should not have Liberty to grant Prohibitions For the Judge said that he had thus debated the business with my Lord Why should you be angry for granting of Prohibitions They in the Kings-Bench can grant Writs of Error to examine our Proceedings and we think it no offence and hold our selves as able to Judge as they And it is the Justice of the Law that requires it to be so and therefore you must submit to us as we must submit to them F. Thorpe being asked what he knew of my Lord of Straffords distast against them that sued out or solicited or councelled Prohibitions or Habeas Corpus's He first desired to be excused from saying any thing that concerned himself but being commanded to speak He Answered That he would speak nothing but the Truth if he must do it though he perish for it And he professed that he had not spoken in any place to any person what he was now to say That in the beginning of my Lord of Strafford's time it fell to him in his ordinary course of Practice to move for a Prohibition and on his motion some were obtained That he was informed
by divers men that my Lord of Strafford was much offended with him and some spoke it to him by way of Threat some others by way of Advice and Friendship That he should give over moving for Prohibitions which he did not understand to be a fault since the Justice of the Kingdom was that they should be granted and it continued a matter of a year after That then he took an occasion to go to my Lords House to Gantropp and his Errand was partly to present his humble Duty and Service to his Lordship and in the second place if he could have opportunity and if his Lordship would please to speak with him to give his Lordship satisfaction in any thing he had done in that particular because it was conceived he opposed the Jurisdiction of that Court. That after he had the Favour to speak with his Lordship which was long first He was pleased to say no otherwise than thus I have nothing to say to you you are one that oppose me But at the present I have eased you of the Office of Justice of the Peace so you need not trouble your self with that That he did humbly thank his Honour for it for howsoever he meant it he took it to be no dis-favour but a Courtesie he having been in three or four years but not executing any Authority it standing not with his occasions And his Lordship added Hereafter you and I shall speak further of the businesse That afterwards his Lordship met him in London in the Inner Star-Chamber he then attending on a motion day before the Lord Keeper amongst others of his Rank That my Lord President was pleased to come behind his back and lay his hand on his shoulder and said I Command you not to depart the Town That the words were something strange to him and not understanding well what his Lordship meant by it he instantly went to his Lordship and desired that he might know his mind he not very well hearing him That his Lordship repeated the words again I Command you not to depart the Town That for a matter of a Week or such a thing he did attend under this Command And then applyed himself to his Lordship by all Means and Friends that he could He Petitioned three or four times he is uncertain which He made means by Persons of Quality to his Lordship That his Lordship would tell him the place where he was to attend or the Cause for what or the Person before whom but his Lordship was not pleased to give him any satisfaction only thus much he received That he was one that did oppose his Lordship and he should attend Seeing there was no Remedy he made his Address to a Noble Friend present and acquainted him with the business who was pleased to take the matter so to heart as to move it to his Lordship That then he conceived the fault he had committed The not paying the Knighthood money in York-shire And his the Deponents Answer was he had offered it but was not chargeable by Law for he had not 40 l. a year three years before the Coronation as the Writ did enjoyn He speaks now of that which is not in the Charge which ought not to be We desire he may proceed leaving it to Your Lordships to sever that which is material from that which is not material F. Thorpe proceeded and said He could not say he punished him for the Prohibition but he conceived all did follow because he moved sometimes for Prohibitions And that he had opposed his Authority and Power in York-shire I Appeal to Your Lordships Judgments whether it be not out of the Charge Mr. Thorpe could not search my heart to know the Ground of the Offence The Charge against my Lord of Strafford is not only the Executing of these Instructions but also the exercising of an exorbitant and unlawful Power and Jurisdiction over the Persons and Estates of His Majesties Subjects To which the matter offered by the Witnesses is material The Lord Steward speaking to the Witness said Apply your self as much as you can to the point in question F. Thorpe proceeded and said That he conceived the Question was asked him generally What he could say concerning Prohibitions or them that had to do with them That no man living hath less desire to speak of my Lord of Strafford than he had and if he had not been asked this Question on his Oath and before that Presence and on this Command he should not have said it For what he said now he never had spoke before and with what Sorrow he came now to speak it he knew and said that he spake not this to any other purpose but only That these things which were done were done on the occasion of the Prohibitions For the matter of Knighting-money though it were made the cause of staying him in London yet under favour he said That was not nor could be the Cause For he had offered it below in the Country only thus That he was not Chargeable by Law but very willing to pay it if my Lord would have him pay it so he might comply with his Lordship or serve any occasion wherein his Lordship was employed And therefore that of Knighting was the occasion taken yet he conceived that was not the true occasion And lastly that after he had been kept 12 or 14 days under this Command his Lordship was pleased on that which passed between that noble Lord my Friend and his Lordship to give him leave to go home and then he paid the money We desire the Witness may not conceal any thing but speak it and being demanded accordingly F. Thorpe answered There was another particular happened on him and though another occasion was taken part came from the said Root but he desired to be pardoned in not speaking of it Being required to speak and to set forth what time this was and what that Noble mans name was who upon my Lord of Straffords motion procured him liberty F. Thorpe answered That he conceived the time to be about the Knighting-money business and the Lords name was My Lord Goring Your Lordships may observe this was long before the Commission in 8 Car. and some two years after my Lord of Strafford came to the Place Being Interrogated further Whether he or his Clients have forborn to move in that Cause of Prohibitions out of fear of my Lord of Strafford He answered For his own particular he hath forborn and durst not adventure it nor any that had to do with him in those parts as he knew durst move till of very late For he knew very well the price of my Lord of Strafford's displeasure Being asked if he knew any thing of the Case of Leyton about a Prohibition He answered He knew nothing of it I humbly desire with your Lordships leave to interpose a Question We desire that our Witness might first be
Lordships satisfaction will in good time be given That though this particular is not Treason yet all the parts of it amount to the Subversion of the Laws of the Kingdom That is prest as Treason and this as an Evidence That for the second Commission it follows as the other if he procured the one he is guilty as if he procured both it being the same Power still THE Second Article The Charge THat shortly after the obtaining of the said Commission dated the 21st of March in the Eighth year of His Maiesties Reign to wit the last day of August then next following he the said Earl to bring His Maiesties Liege People into a dislike of His Maiesty and of His Government and to terrifie the Iustices of the Peace from executing of the Laws He the said Earl being then President as aforesaid and a Iustice of Peace did publickly at the Assizes held for the County of York in the City of York in and upon the said last day of August declare and publish before the People there attending for the Administration of Iustice according to Law and in the presence of the Iustices sitting That some of the Iustices were all for Law and nothing would please them but Law but they should find That the Kings little Finger should be heavier than the Loyns of the Law WE are come now to the second Article touching words spoken of the King That the Kings little Finger should be heavier than the Loyns of the Law For that we desire to produce Witnesses and they will shew how my Lord of Strafford is mistaken in his Answer Or if he says true As he slanders the King in one sense so he slanders the Law in another Witnesses produced William Long Sworn and interrogated What words he heard my Lord of Strafford speak concerning the comparison between the Kings little Finger and the Loyns of the Law On what occasion Where and at what time Answered When Sir Thomas Leyton was Sheriff of York-shire 1632. as he takes it My Lord of Strafford being there he heard his Lordship say these words That some nothing would content but Law but they should know The Kings little Finger should be heavier than the Loyns of the Law And this was spoken in the place where the Judges sate in York-Castle at the Assizes that year The occasion he knew not but it was publickly spoken and as he thought my Lord did not then sit on the Bench but stood at the Barr. Sir Thomas Leyton was Sworn and being thick of hearing the Manager was directed by my Lord Steward to interrogate him to the effect aforesaid Who Answered My Lord said Some would not be satisfied but by Law but they should have Law enough for they should find the Kings little Finger to be heavier than the Loyns of the Law His Lordship being on the Bench then with the Judges at that time and abundance of the Country being there then at Lammas Assizes at the Castle-Bench And he thinks it was 1632. or 1633. but he knew not the occasion Marmaduke Potter having been examined as a preparatory Witness and since being deceased it was desired his Deposition might be read The Lord Steward declared That the Examinations of those preparatory Witnesses should be read in case any should be dead To prove Marmaduke Potter's death Thomas Harrison was Sworn Being interrogated what he knew concerning the death of Marmaduke Potter Answered That since his coming out of York-shire he heard a report from his Neighbours that M. P. is dead and buried That he the Deponent lived a Mile from the said Marmaduke Potter which is Ninescore and Ten Miles from this place but he heard no particular of the day of his burial The Examination of Marmaduke Potter Gent. taken Ianuary 1640. to the 10th and 11th Inter. He saith That about eight years since when Sir Thomas Leyton was Sheriff of York-shire he heard the Earl of Strafford make a Speech publickly at the Bench at Summer-Assizes and he said then That the Kings little Finger should be heavier than the Loyns of the Law I know not whether it were material for me to Answer this or no but as the Charge is laid it is impossible I should be guilty of the words For it is laid to be the last of August next following the 21st of March in the Eighth year of His Majesties Reign which falls out to be when I was in Ireland But I desire not to stand on such Niceties but that Truth may appear The words confessed in my Answer are quite contrary being That the little Finger of the Law was heavier than the Kings Loyns And that I set forth in my Answer and the occasion of them which these Witnesses do not or else will not remember The occasion was this There came divers Levies in the year when Sir Thomas Leyton was Sheriff for divers great sums of money for issues in the Knighting-business on some that had compounded and paid their money to me the Receiver of that money then and by me answered in the Exchequer yet these Issues came down through some Errour above and were levied with very great rigour by Sir Thomas Leyton When I came down I spake with Sir Thomas Leyton and shewed him how the men were injured and did desire him to return the money to them again and I would see him discharged in the Exchequer which he was contented to do And then to give satisfaction to the Country I told them That that Commission was a Commission of Grace and Favour and that their Compounding with the King was an ease to them and much greater ease than by a proceeding at Law would have fallen on them the very first Issues being three or four times more than they had compounded the whole for And thereupon I applyed that Speech That the little Finger of the Law was heavier than the Loyns of the King For if I should then have fallen to threaten them I had spoken contrary to the end I had proposed which was to incline them And further that not one of the Witnesses spoke any thing to the occasion of the Speech That it is long since and was never yet complained of and that man must have a stronger memory than I that will undertake to swear positively the very words spoken seven or eight years ago And under favour he ought to have better Ears than Sir Thomas Leyton who appears to have such an infirmity in hearing that he must now be whoopt to at the Barr before he can hear and sure his sense of hearing is much decayed else he could not have heard me speaking at that distance to the place where the Sheriff sits in an open place as far distant as from the Barr where I now stand to my Lord Steward or very near Dr. Duncombe being asked Whether he came accidentally to York that day and what he heard the words repeated to be He Answered He came from
Durham being sent for on other occasions That he was at York in his Journey from Durham the first day of the Assizes and being at Dinner at Dr. Stanhopps there came a Gent. Sir Edward Stanhopp who called Dr. Stanhopp Uncle from the Assizes That the Doctor asked what news specially concerning my Lord Presidents Speech he told them that he prest hard to hear and could tell some passages of it Then they asked what they were says he My Lord President was speaking of this That the way of the Prerogative was in some particulars easier than the Common Law And in his expression he said these words The little Finger of the Common Law is heavier than the Loyns of the King This the said Sir Edward Stanhopp told him in the presence of divers others who he thinks do remember the words were so related and that he had related them often since and never took it otherwise till he saw it in the Charge and there it was clear otherwise And upon further question at my Lord of Straffords motion He Answered That he never acquainted my Lord of Strafford that he could say any thing in this till Sunday night and then talking with Sir William Pennyman he told Sir William the story My Lord of Strafford desired Sir William Pennyman might be heard and humbly acknowledged the Favour that had been done him by the House of Commons in giving liberty unto it upon his suit Sir William Pennyman being asked whether he was present at the time when my Lord of Strafford spoke the words of comparison between the Kings little Finger and the Loyns of the Law what was spoke and what was the occasion He Answered That he was present at the Assizes at York at that time and heard my Lord speak these words in another order and position than is testified by these three Witnesses And in truth he said he could wish he spake now on his Oath for he knew he spake on much disadvantage The occcasion was this A Rumour was cast up and down in the Country That my Lord of Strafford had received great sums of money concerning Knighthood which he had detained in his own hands and not paid into the Exchequer Hearing of this his Lordship thought himself much wronged in it and took occasion to vindicate himself and there spoke of it and told them to the best of his remembrance there was some omission on the Secretaries part or some of the Officers of the Exchequer Hereupon my Lord took occasion to discourse of the Legality of Knighthood-money and told them Gentlemen you may see this is a Commission of Grace and Favour for whereas you may compound with the King for a matter of 20 or 30 l. you have in two or three Terms run into great sums He added That he did not remember the proportion but the Inference was So that you may see that the little Finger of the Law is heavier than the Loyns of the King One of the Managers desired he might be asked by what means this was brought into his memory and how long since He Answered He had the retention of it in his memory before but it was revived on occasion of these Articles when they were exhibited It is enough and he did his Duty well that being a Member of the House of Commons he never informed the House of it My Lords I desire my Answer may be read wherein the occasion and the words are directly set forth quite contrary to those in the Charge and I protest that I will take my Oath on it That it was so And my humble request is That no Witness I produce may be prejudiced for any Testimony he shall give here being with the Liberty and Allowance of both Houses For if they should be discountenanced nay punished for it I should think my self a very unhappy man indeed and rather than I should prejudice any man in that kind I profess I would put my self on Gods mercy and goodness and not make use of any Member of either House and my principal Witnesses must be of both Houses rather than acquit my self by their prejudice for I accompt it an unjust thing to overthrow another to save my self The Testimony of a Member of the House hath great credit in the House and they take not the least exception against Sir William Pennyman for any thing he said before their Lordships but wish he may speak with clearness and truth but had he informed this particular himself to the House he had done my Lord of Strafford more right than by not informing to let it come in Charge and bring in his Testimony contrary to his Vote When a Witness hears a thing in question though it be not required of him certainly he should vindicate the Reputation of his Friend in contradicting it in season but it is not so done and certainly his silence to the House was not well My Lords This concerns me nearly This Gentleman Sir William Pennyman is my Noble Friend and a Worthy Gentleman and I would give him my Life on any occasion but I know him to be a Person so full of Virtue and Nobleness that he would not speak an untruth for all the world perhaps he might not think fit to speak it in the House men are left at their liberty The Charge came out in Print very lately and whether Sir William Pennyman might know any thing of it I leave it to those that better understand it But with this humble Request to the noble and worthy Gentlemen of the Commons House That they would please to regard it so that no man may suffer by me I protest I had rather suffer ten thousand times my self The business concerns the House of Commons the Committee knows not how they will apprehend it But it is only offered That the Judgment of the House of Commons may not be prejudiced The Lord Steward concluded this matter That his Lorship is put upon the Trial of his Peers who will give him all fair Respect That his Lordship shall be denied no just way for his clearing that he could say nothing in the Name of the Lords to this particular that 's come out on the present nor these Gentlemen in the name of the Commons only he may be sure to find all that is fit which my Lord of Strafford said he doubted not and hoped their Lordship would pardon him for moving it it concerning him very much As to the mistake in point of time the Commons laying it to be after the Commission 21. March 8 Reg. and prove it to be before the time is not at all material The offence is not that he spake it on that day but that he spake the words The Exception to Sir Thomas Leyton's Testimony that he had need to have better Ears he is a Gentleman of worth his Deposition is an Oath and he knew best what he heard the truth is
he stood within little distance of my Lord when he spake the words and hath not been deaf above two months and two other Witnesses concur fully with him For Doctor Duncombe whether he be the man that laid Aspersions in the North on some Noble Lords I know not but his Testimony only is that he heard so from one that spake it at the Table not upon Oath and not knowing what use would be made of it And another Witness shall be produced that will speak to the occasion and that it was not the matter of Knighting-money Sir Thomas Leyton being asked how long he hath had this Infirmity in his hearing Answered That he got a great Cold since he came to Town and had this Imperfection since Christmas and had his hearing well before Being asked how far he sate from my Lord of Strafford He Answered Four yards off My Lord of Strafford desired it might be asked the Witness Whether he sate on the Seat where the Sheriff uses to fit he answered Affirmatively His Lordship excepted against his Testimony himself sitting where the President uses to sit betwixt my Lord Chief Baron and Mr. Justice Vernon And he Appealed to my Lord Chief Baron Whether the Presidents Seat and the Sheriffs Seat be not as far distant very near as far as from his Lordships then station to the Lord Steward But the Committee observed it not to be material that there should be any Geometrical measure but be three four five six or seven yards off Here the Committee offered other Witnesses but my Lord of Strafford desired their Lordships Judgment Whether they should not bring all together which the Lord Steward declared they might as to this Point Sir David Fowles being produced was excepted against My Lords He is no competent Witnesse he lying in the Fleet on a Sentence in the Star-Chamber at my Suit being fined for divers things he had said which concerned my self which depended on this in question and conducing to it He comes not at his own Request or Suit but in a Suit that concerns His Majesty and the Commonwealth and might offer the Presidents own Rule in the Case but that the Law speaks for him that a Witness ought to be heard in this Cause though there have been particular ill affections between them and your Lordships well know how to compare him with other Witnesses and to value him accordingly This hath been Resolved in the Case of Sir Pierce Crosby that he should be sworn and then value his Testimony as the Lords shall see Cause and this may be put into the same way Sir David Fowles being sworn the Lord Steward put them in mind of the former Caution that their Lordships would judge the value of his Testimony the Committee not admitting what was excepted against him he being not to obtain any thing for himself nor his own Interest concerned but produced for the King and Commonwealth and therefore an indifferent Witness in the Case And then being Interrogated touching the words of Comparison between the King 's little Finger and the Loins of the Law whether he heard them and the occasion Sir David Fowles answered He heard him say the very same words That there were some for Law and nothing but Law but the King 's little Finger should be heavier on them than the Loins of the Law The occasion he cannot well remember but there was some discontent taken by my Lord against him he being desired by a Messenger to levy Mony to mend a Bridge he told the Messenger He could not well do it of himself for there was a Statute as he took it 24 H. 8. that appoints four Commissioners to be at the doing of such Service and he being but One durst not undertake to do it Besides he said He must see an Order or Warrant from the Sessions else he could not do it and none was shewed Some other Exceptions he took to the unlawfulness of the business and the Messenger reported this to my Lord and that he conceived was the cause my Lord broke out so violently against him But being Interrogated on what occasion the words in question were spoken He answered Before my Lord went to Ireland he made a Speech to the whole County and desired them to go on in their Service and so brake out Some are all for Law but they shall find the Kings little Finger heavier on them than the Loins of the Law And this is all he can remember Sir William Ingram sworn and examined touching his knowledge of these words Answered That he was on the Bench at that time Sir Thomas Leyton was Sheriff and he heard my Lord speak these words Some of you are all for Law but you shall find that the King 's little Finger is heavier than the Loins of the Law but he doth not remember the occasion The main point I must insist on is That the very words if they had been spoken by me as they are laid concerning which I call God to witness I have spoken the truth and the occasion It is no Treason within the Statute And that being a point of Law I crave leave to reserve my self according to your Lordships Order that my Counsel in time fitting and proper may speak as concerning that in point of Law We shall close this Article the last thing mentioned by his Lordship was spoken to before as to the words we had five Witnesses express in the Point and therefore shall expect your Lordships Judgment in that And so the Court was adjourned The Fourth day Thursday March 25. 1641. THE Third Article The Charge THat the Realm of Ireland having béen time out of mind annexed to the Imperial Crown of this His Majesties Realm of England and governed by the same Laws The said Earl being Lord-Deputy of that Realm to bring His Majesties Liege-Subjects of that Kingdom likewise into dislike of His Majesties Government and intending the Subversion of the Fundamental Laws and setled Government of that Realm and the destruction of His Majesties Liege-people there did upon the 30th day of September in the Ninth Year of His now Majesties Reign in the City of Dublin the chief City of that Realm where His Majesties Privy-Council and Courts of Iustice do ordinarily reside and whither the Nobility and Gentry of that Realm do usually resort for Iustice in a publick Speech before divers of the Nobility and Gentry of that Kingdom and before the Mayor Aldermen and Recorder and many Citizens of Dublin and other His Majesties Liege-people declare and publish That Ireland was a Conquered Nation and that the King might do with them what he pleased And speaking of the Charters of former Kings of England made to that City He further then said That their Charters were nothing worth and did bind the King no further than he pleased I Humbly move your Lordship That since diverse things were spoken by the Witnesses Yesterday which
he heard my Lord of Strafford speak touching Ireland being a Conquered Nation and that the Charters of it were of no value further then it pleased the King to make them His Lordship answered And first desired leave to speak a word hoping he should do no wrong to any man That when he had obtained my Lords Licence under the Great Seal to come over hither he came with as great a Resolution never to complain of any sufferings he had or to Petition against him as any man did and left all his Papers and Writings behind him that he might have nothing to move him against my Lord of Strafford but to do him all the service he could To the question his Lordship said That all he can say is this that he was present that day the Mayor of Dublin was presented to my Lord Deputy that then was and the Recorder set forth the Great Charters they had from the several Kings of England and fell on that matter of placing Soldiers in Dublin without their consent That my Lords Answer was You must understand Mr. Recorder Ireland is a conquered Nation and the King may give them what Laws he pleases And then going forward with the Charters he said They be old Antiquated Charters and no further good than the King is pleased to make them To that sense he said he is sure We desire to observe to Your Lordships That this time was not the only time he spoke the very words in effect to the whole Kingdom afterwards in Parliament The Lord Gorminstone produced and Sworn Being asked whether he heard my Lord of Strafford speak words to the effect as aforesaid That Ireland was a conquered Nation c. His Lordship Answered That he remembers that in the 10th year of the Kings Reign 1634 on occasion of a Petition presented to my Lord Lieutenant in behalf of the Country as far as his remembrance leads him from the House of Commons desiring the benefit of some Graces His Majesty had been pleased to confer on them and he in the open Parliament sitting under the Cloth of State in presence of both Houses told them Ireland was a conquered Nation and they must expect Laws as from a Conquerour And the Instructions granted from His Majesty for setling the Government of that Kingdom were procured from a company of narrow-hearted Commissioners Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's motion when these words were spoken whether the first day of the Parliament or at any other time His Lordship answered That to his best remembrance it was not the first day of the Parliament My Lord of Strafford saying it was at the opening of the Parliament and the second day my Lord Gorminstone being further asked about the time His Lordship answered He knew not whether it were the second day or another day but the particular words he took notice of and it was in presence of both Houses of Parliament the Speaker standing at the Barr. The Lord Killmallock produced and Sworn and interrogated touching the same words His Lordship answered That he was a Member of the Commons House the 10th and 11th of the King and the House of Commons Petitioned the then Lord Deputy the Earl of Strafford for the gaining of the Act of Limitations for the confirming of their Estates amongst other Graces granted to the Agents for that Kingdom in the fourth year of the King These Graces he answered to in writing and on the second or third day after came into the House of Lords and there sent for the Commons and in his Speech amongst other things I well remember and to my grief and to the grief of that Kingdom he uttered these words That that Kingdom was a conquered Nation the words as he remembred and therefore they must expect Laws as from a Conquerour adding further that the Book of Instructions established in King Iames his Reign for the orderly Government of the Courts of Justice in that Kingdom were Instructions contrived and procured by a Company of narrow-hearted Commissioners who knew not what belonged to Government Sir Pierce Crosby being asked touching the same words Answered That he very well remembred the words as they had been spoken by the Noblemen that had been examined before him My Lord of Strafford then Lord Deputy of Ireland in the hearing of both Houses said That Ireland was a conquered Nation and that the Conquerour should give the Law He added further that the Book of Instructions for the Government of that Kingdom was drawn up or procured by the means of some narrow-hearted Commissioners meaning those Commissioners that were employed by Commission from the King out of the House of Commons being a select Committee whereof there was one that is now a Noble Member of this House that sits on the Earls Bench And that he hath heard many of both Houses repeat the same words as spoken by him And so the Commons concluded the Article expecting my Lord of Straffords Answer After a quarter of an hours respit my Lord of Strafford began his Defence as followeth First I desire to open two points set forth in my Answer which under favour I must stand to as that by which I must stand or fall First That the Kingdom of Ireland as I conceive is governed by Customs and Statutes and Execution of Martial Law and Proceedings at Council-Board in a different manner from the Laws of England Secondly That touching the Charters I said these Charters were void and nothing worth and did not bind the King further than he pleased both which I hope to make good The other business that comes in De novo is no part of my Charge and therefore I hope will not be laid to my Charge I observe in the beginning of this part of the Charge that concerns Ireland That the Governours for the Crown of England that have been it Ireland in all Ages almost have had these misfortunes That the Native Subjects of that Country have not been propitious towards them I instance in the case of Sir Io. Perott who on Testimonies here was Attainted of Treason in a Legal ordinary way of proceeding whereupon he lost his Estate though not his Life and afterwards it was confest there was little truth in all that Accusation Next my Lord of Faulkland against whom many of the Witnesses that I think will come against me informed as Sir Pierce Crosby for one my Lord Mountnorris for another and divers others who had so prejudicated me when I went into Ireland in their Opinion by the generality of their Charge that I was a little distrustful whether it was not so And thus much I have spoken once before His Majesty at the Council-Board on another occasion and now speak it to Your Lordships to the Honour of that Person that is now with God my Lord of Faulkland notwithstanding all the heavy cries that were against him and the wrongs and injuries laid to his Charge I
had the fortune to have all the Examinations whereupon they proceeded and looked over them all and now I protest and call God to witness not any way as making to me I found the said Lord to have proceeded as Honourably Justly and Nobly to his understanding as any man could do and yet was decryed as much as any man could be And so I beseech Your Lordships to consider me the Kings Servant and that in the Administration of the Commands and Justice intrusted with me I had occasion to give offence to many and that it hath been the ill fortune of those that have been Governours there when they have left the Government not to be so well reported as otherwise they might be Besides There is nothing in this Charge can possibly amount to Treason admit all to be as it is laid though perhaps to a Misdemeanour That if it be no Treason it will fall to be but Misdemeanour and then I conceive it stands with the Justice and Practice of this Court to allow Councel and Witnesses which I am debarred from by the involving me under the general Charge of Treason and having no further time to prepare then since Friday last That though before I durst not say Your Lordships were bound by Rules of any Judicature but stood to Your own Honour and Nobleness and were a Rule to Your selves and herein I take Your Lordships to witness yet since the Gentlemen at the Barr have prest the rules of other Courts I desire leave to offer That in all ordinary Courts of Judicature that ever I heard of where the Criminal party doth Answer and that Answer is not replyed to nor he admitted to make his proof the Answer of the party is taken and confest from which universal Rule of Justice no man can shew him a transgression And therefore since I cannot be admitted my proofs it being impossible to fetch Witnesses out of Ireland since Friday last my Answer I conceive ought to be admitted and the Charge taken as I confest it not as it is on proof Saving to my self that I said I would go on to give the best Answer I could on a suddain professing That if I had had time I am confident through the mercy and goodness of God and the Innocency of my own heart I should be able to clear my self of Treason the greatest Crime between man and man towards His Majesty and towards his People my heart being innocent of it and never having suggestion or thought but for the Greatness and Honour of His Majesty and the Prosperity and blessed Estate of His People all the days of my life and ever desiring the best things and never satisfied I had done enough but did always desire to do better but also of all other foul Crimes of Injustice or Oppression Errours I may have many perhaps my Tongue hath been too free my Heart perhaps hath lain too near my Tongue but God forbid every word should rise up in Judgment against me If every word that 's spoken amiss should be observ'd who is able to endure it for words spoken ten twelve eight or nine years ago to be brought in Judgment of me is a very heavy Case and I beseech your Lordships to turn the Case inward and to tell me if it be not a hard Case to be put upon such an Examination I shall observe further that words ought to be charged within a certain time by the Proviso in the Stat. in E. 6. time they must be brought in question within 30 days as I take it which Proviso stands good in Law but I go now into a Learning that God knows I have little skill of to this I desire my Councel may in due time be heard to open and Plead In the mean time I desire to say that if popular actions must be concluded within a year or two at the most sure words should be questioned within a less time I shall proceed to maintain the truth of my Answer That Ireland is not governed by the same Laws that England is and for that I shall read a few words in my Lord Cooks Learning which God knows I understand not it is in Calvins Case where the words are So as now the Laws of England became the proper Laws of Ireland And therefore because they have Parliaments holden there whereat they have made divers particular Laws as it appears in the 20 H. 6. 8. and 20. and in Ed. Dyer 360. And for that they retain to this day divers of the ancient Customs the Book of 20 H. 6. holds That Ireland is governed by Laws and Customs separate and divers from the Laws of England Therefore in all things belonging to my Charge that came out of Ireland I hope Your Lordships will take along with you the consideration of the Customs and Practices of that Kingdom and not judge me according to that which hath been the Custom and Practice of the Kingdom of England In the second place I come to the words of Ireland being a conquered Nation The words laid in the Charge being that I should say That Ireland was a conquered Nation and the King might do with them what he pleased And first I should do extreamly ill to the Honour of the English Nation and to the memory of divers of Your Lordships Noble Ancestors if I should not both say and think that Ireland is a conquered Nation when here 's mention made in the Laws and in the Acts of State of English Rebels and Irish Enemies certainly there is something in that for till the Kings of England gave them the advantage and benefit of the Laws of England it is well known they were held Irish Enemies and so termed and stiled in all the Records one shall meet withall in these times And that it was a conquered Nation I have very good Authority in the Statute made 11 Eliz. at the Attainder of that famous Rebel Shan Oneale In one part of which it is said That all the Clergy of the Realm assembled in Armagh at the time of the Conquest c. See the Statute Is it then so much for me to say what 's in the Act and is it not for the Honour of the English Nation to say it and it must be said to the Worlds end for 't is a truth And therefore there is no cause it should be taken so hainously or heard with so much displeasure and if I displease for telling the truth I cannot help it He reads another part of it viz. And therefore it is to be understood that King Hen. 2. the first Conqueror of this Realm c. And so it hath been acknowledged in all stories and times and many an English man hath spent his blood in it whose Posterity will be ashamed to view it other than as a conquered Kingdom Nay I believe many Noble Persons are yet living that have bled for it and will take it ill if it be termed less than a Conquest in them
I crave Liberty to explain my self That I said not they were brought to the Council-Table to be judged but that consideration might be had Whether there was ill usage and extortion practised under colour of them or no whether any thing were done that hindred the growth of that Town and the good of the People and the Protestant Religion that it might appear how the business stood in point of State but to give a judgment upon them in Law it was never in my thoughts Robert Lord Dillon being then asked Whether the Charters of Dublin have not been brought before the Council of Ireland there to be considered concerning the Validity of them and whether it did not appear that for divers Occasions Exactions and Tolls and by-Laws and other abuses in the exercise of these Charters they did not appear to the King 's Learned Council and others learned in the Law to be void He Answered That it was a question he did not expect and yet being called he should faithfully and freely tell his knowledge of it to his best remembrance That he doth remember very well that the Charters of Dublin have been brought to the Council-Board and argued strongly against by the Kings Learned Council That there was one particular of 3 d. Custom challenged by the City which endured a very long debate That it was argued against them That they exercised by-Laws contrary to the Common Law of the Land and that divers other things were urged against them but he remembers not the particular determination of the Board upon the question Being asked severally what time those Charters were so brought and how long after my Lord of Strafford's coming into Ireland He Answered That he precisely remembreth not the time but he takes it to be five or six years ago something more or less and he thinks about a year or two after my Lord of Strafford's coming but he remembers not the time not expecting to be Interrogated in it We desire your Lordships to observe That the words were spoken before the Charters were brought to the Council-Board It follows not That because they were questioned at Council-Board afterwards I did not therefore know them to be void when I spoke of them for they were complained of in Parliament as great Grievances in the exercising of them and to that purpose I desire my Lord Dillom may be heard And being asked what he knew concerning the Charters of Dublin being questioned in the Commons House for divers Oppressions unlawful By-Laws and other ill usage of their Liberties He Answered That he was a Member of the first Parliament after my Lords coming into Ireland 1634. After this Visitation of the Mayor some half an year but he knows not the time precisely That divers Members of that House did object divers Misdemeanors in misâ—sing the Priviledges of those Charters That the particulars were several By-Laws which they did execute contrary to the Common Law Another was that by the Priviledge of those Charters they excluded divers of the Tradesmen that came out of England to set up Manufactures there which was conceived a great Grievance to that Kingdom Another was that having the Government of that Town being a Navigable Port they permitted the Soil to be emptied into the River without care or regard That at the time of the Presentment of the Mayor my Lord took occasion to advise and advertise the Mayor of several Defects in that Town and divers of the Commons House of that Parliament are here that were present Hence observe the Reason and Grounds of my Exception to these Charters and the Effects of questioning them which were two First By this means I am perswaded and thereof I beseech the Honourable House of Commons to take notice as that which is reputed my greatest Crime in Ireland there be three Protestants in Dublin at this hour for one that was there when I came over for the Townsmen did keep all the Trade and ingross all the Manufactures into their own hands and being Natives and Romish Catholicks did depress the English that strangers out of England had little advantage of Trade And whatsoever any man may say or think on Information from persons that do not love me who are Members of neither House for so I desire to be understood when I speak of persons unfriendly to me I complain of nothing that is or shall be done me here but will leave it all with thankfulness to God Almighty and with that Duty and Reverence to this House that becomes me It will be known hereafter when I perhaps am in my Grave that my greatest fault in Ireland hath been my extream Zeal to bring them to conform with the Church of England which by that means hath provoked a great deal of Displeasure And secondly I observe That this argues no great malice in my heart nor desire to oppress the King's People when I shall tell your Lordships That to this day those Charters were never legally questioned but are enjoyed So far was I from pressing rigorously any thing against them I desiring nothing but Reformation and to have them what they ought to be and to leave them not less but more happy than I found them And if I should serve there again as I hope I shall serve only God Almighty and my Master with my prayers they should be freed from all exactions and misusings of them tending to the prejudice of the Town the King's Service and the Service of Almighty God And so I hope I have made a clear Answer to so much as was charged to free my self from guilt of Treason reserving to my self the advantage of having my Counsel heard in proper time to the matter of Treason in point of Law according to the liberty your Lordships have afforded me Next I shall proceed to that which is proved and no way charged which I forbore to speak to the day before as holding it an impertinent expence of time to your Lordships and a spending of my own spirits which God knows are weak and infirm indeed If I were permitted to speak this morning to all the things extrajudicially formerly offered I should give a free and clear Answer But suffering by my Ignorance and silence then I now desire leave to Answer those things that came de Novo and that by three Witnesses touching words spoken at another time to both Houses of Parliament I confess it to be true that the second day of the last Parliament but this that is now sitting I had the Honour to sit as His Majesties Deputy and it was the greatest Honour that ever I received and I should be loath to say any thing sitting in that Place that should not fully comply with the Goodness Clemency and Justice of His Majesty or should mis-represent Him in any kind to his People in another sense or to other purpose than his own Great and Princely Vertues do Merit and Deserve And that all
same If there be any Statute that gives my Lord of Strafford as Governour alone power to take Cognizance of meerly private Causes it is something to the purpose to say there is a particular Statute but till that be shewed he hath in this erected an Arbitrary Power And so he concluded the Reply and the Third Article THE Fourth Article The Charge THat Richard Earl of Corke having sued out Process in course of Law for recovery of his Possessions from which he was put by colour of an Order made by the said Earl of Strafford and the Council-Table of the said Realm of Ireland upon a Paper Petition without Legal procéeding did the 20th day of February in the 11th year of His now Majesties Reign threaten the said Earl being then a Péer of the said Realm to Imprison him unless he would surcease his Suit and said That he would have neither Law nor Lawyers dispute or question his Orders And the 20th day of March in the said 11th year the said Earl of Strafford speaking of an Order of the said Council-Table of that Realm made in the time of King James which concerned a Lease which the said Earl of Corke claimed in certain Rectories or Tythes which the said Earl of Corke alledged to be of no force said that he would make the said Earl and all Ireland know that so long as he had the Government there any Act of State there made or to be made should be as binding to the Subjects of that Kingdom as an Act of Parliament and did question the said Earl of Corke in the Eastle Chamber there upon pretence of breach of the said Order of Council-Table and did sundry other times and upon sundry other occasions by his Words and Spéeches Arrogate to himself a Power above the Fundamental Laws and Established Government of that Kingdom and scorned the said Laws and Established Government ONE of the Managers opened the 4th Article and said The former Articles shew my Lord of Straffords Words this his Actions This Article concerns my Lord of Corke's being disseized of an Impropriate Rectory upon a Paper Petition to my Lord of Strafford and referred to the Council-Table the Earl of Strafford saying upon the questioning of the Proceedings thereupon That neither Law nor Lawyers should question or dispute his Orders an Order of Council-Board in King Iames his time enjoyning That no Parson Patron or Ordinary should make a Lease for longer time than the life of the Incumbent was made use of as a ground to dispossess the Earl of Corke In the first place We desire to open the Proceedings at Council-Table before my Lord of Straffords time viz. That in no case concerning Land no Decree hath been there made to bind up the party for remedy at Law The Lord Ranulagh being interrogated whether by the course of Proceedings at Council-Table the Deputy and Council have determined Title of Land and Possession and interrupted the parties to proceed at Law He Answered That he hath observed the course of the Board for 22 years and the course was That if Title of Land between party and party were in debate It was commonly dismissed from the Board with a leading order to be tried by course of Common Law Being asked whether a Deputy alone hath determined private Interest He Answered That he cannot positively say whether it were done privately but to the best of his remembrance he knows not that ever any Deputy determined any matter of private Interest but brought it to the Board though by reference or private proceeding it might have proceeded before it came to the Board My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether he ever knew that any matter of Inheritance was ever by himself and the Council determined whilst he was Governour there that was barely Title of Land and nothing else He Answered And desired to explain himself concerning the former That Causes of the Church and matters of Plantations were resolved in former Deputies times to be dispatched at the Board And for the latter question he never knew matter of Title determined at the Board but in Causes of the Church and Plantations My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether as President of Connaught he did not familiarly on Paper Petitions rule all things in the same nature as the Deputy on Petitions to him The Fifth day Friday March 26. 1641. AFter consideration of this matter by their Lordships it was resolved in the Upper-house That my Lord Ranulagh ought not to be examined on that point it tending to an Accusation of himself The Earl of Corke being Sworn and questioned touching my Lord of Straffords words to him upon his excepting against the Orders made upon the Petition touching the said Rectory His Lordship Answered That he had been in Possession as Tenant of the Crown thirty five years of a Rectory and certain Tythes in the County of Tiperany for which he paid a yearly Rent and having enjoyed it so long my Lord presented to it Arthur Gwyn that had been his Coach-mans Groom That when he heard of it he went to my Lord privately and told his Lordship that he was His Majesties Farmer of those Tythes and paid a Rent and desired he might not be sued for them in the Council-Chamber but if a Suit must be ommenced that it might be in the proper Court the Exchequer That my Lord told him he should Answer it there That he did so and my Lord ordered it against him That a Commission went down and Examinations were taken And after my Lord had ordered it against him an Order of course was set down that Gwyn should have them till I recovered them by course of Law That thereupon I brought an Action against him and his Tenants who were Arrested and came to Dublin and then went to my Lord and Dr. Bramhill Bishop of Derry That thereupon I was sent for before my Lord Lieutenant that then was and my Lord Lieutenant told me Sir You have taken out Writs against Gwyn to whom I Ordered the Tythes of the Rectory I confest I had and desired to know why he aked me so adding that I am sure your Lordship will not take away my Possession by a Paper Bill without Trial. That my Lord of Strafford answered call in your Writs or if you will not I will clap you in the Castle For I tell you I will not have my Orders disputed by Law nor Lawyers Gwyn was a poor man and if he should get the Rents of the Impropriation into his hands I could not get them again And therefore I desired security That if by course of Law I should recover it I might have it again That my Lord of Strafford thereupon said It was very fit and just but the Order being brought unto me I said there was no such thing in the Order Being desired by the Earl of Strafford to repeat the last over again I say that
I told the Lieutenant that I did hold the Council-Chamber could not hold Plea of this and thereupon cited 28 H. 6. the Book of Orders the Proclamation Then I moved his Lordship that in regard Gwyn was a poor man and not answerable and might get the Rents being near 100 marks a year he might give security for the Rents if I should recover them by course of Law That my Lord of Strafford thought it just it should be so entred in the Order And being asked how that came to be left out He Answered That Sir Paul Davis the Clerk of the Council told him my Lord of Strafford found fault with it and struck it out with his own hand Being asked what words he heard from my Lord of Strafford concerning the said Order at Council-Board in King Iames his time He Answered That there was a Parsonage in the County of Kerry in his Presentment and it fell void the Dean and some others commended one Atkinson to be his Vicar That on their Commendation not knowing him himself he presented him without any consideration That Atkinson afterwards fell into decay and was Imprisoned and the Prison being very loathsome the Bishop wrote unto him this Deponent and sent him a Lease under the Hand and Seal of him the said Bishop and the Incumbent with a Label for his the Deponents hand and desired him to seal it for 40 s. a year to another that Atkinson might pay his Debts and stock himself with Cattle That he the Deponent refused it though brought 50 miles from his House fearing it might be prejudicial to the next Clerk That the Bishop sent Atkinson's Wife back over the Mountains with his Letter and the Lease and he the Earl of Corke did sign it then For seeing the misery of the poor Woman and her Children he thought it a work of Charity and it continued so till my Lord of Strafford came to the Government That then he had a Bill preferred against him in the Star-Chamber for breaking an Act of State That none should make a Lease for longer than the Incumbents life and desired that the Bill should be read in all the Proceedings of it That thereupon he told the Earl of Strafford it was a work of Charity and he never heard of such an Act of State being not published and made in King Iames his time and in the Lord Grandisons Government who are both dead And therefore he conceived there was no cause to charge or prosecute him for it being but an Act of State That my Lord of Strafford Answered I tell you my Lord as Great as you are I will make you and all the Subjects of Ireland know That any Act of State made or to be made shall be as binding to you and the Subjects of Ireland during my Government as an Act of Parliament Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether the Order made in the Case of Gwyn was not made by the major part of the Votes of the Board He Answered That he did say that it was Voted at the Council-Table but he knows not whether it were done by the major part and afterwards with a lower voice His Lordship added that he thinks it was never Voted Iohn Waldron Sworn was examined touching the words my Lord of Strafford was charged to say touching an Act of State being equal to an Act of Parliament and the occasion He Answered It was his chance to be at Council-Table when a Cause depending between the Merchants of Galloway and some others that prosecuted the business in behalf of the Church about a Lease made by the Dean of Derry which was debated at the Council-Board And there was one Mr. Martin of Council for the Merchants and he pressing hard for his Clients It pleased my Lord to think he had over-shot himself or was too forward and asked what he had to say that he prest that Cause so hard That Mr. Martin Answered him He had an Act of Parliament or Statute or to that purpose That my Lord of Strafford Replied again Sir I will make you know That an Act of this Board shall be as good as any Act or Statute or words to that effect Iohn Kay after some Exceptions taken by the Earl of Strafford against him as no fit Witness in respect of his prosecuting a Suit against his Lordship for the Lady Hibbotts which was Over-ruled by their Lordships was sworn and being asked touching the said words to be spoken by the Earl of Strafford and the occasion and the time He Answered That he was present at Council-Table by chance when there was a Cause wherein Mr. Martin pleading for his Clients My Lord-Deputy then asked him What made him so earnest for it He said He had an Act of Parliament or Statute to justifie his Cause Hereupon my Lord-Deputy Answered He should know that as long as Himself sate in that Place An Act of State should be as strong as an Act of Parliament or words to that effect Being asked of the time He Answered He doth not remember the time but it was three years and upwards It was before Iuly 1637. but the Day and Year he remembers not but it was in the Case where Mr. Martin was Council My Lord Corke being asked about the time he said It was in 1635. about February Mr. Waldron being asked Whether it was in a Church-Cause Answered My Lord-Deputy made an Offer That if they would take a Lease for 21 years at full value they should have it But if they would stand on the Trial of the Lease they must take the adventure And Mr. Hoy being asked Whether it was a Church-Cause He Answered He conceived the Church was Interested in it Lord Kill mallock asked Whether he heard my Lord Strafford say An Act of Council should be as Valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion and to what scope He Answered That he was at Council-Table some four or five years ago and there did hear my Lord of Strafford say to one of the Council he cannot say it was Mr. Martin He would have him know as long as himself was Governor An Act of State should be as binding as an Act of Parliament on what occasion he cannot say He further said That in the 10th Year of the King in the Parliament held in Ireland he heard Sir George Ratcliffe my Lord of Strafford's Eccho in that House say On occasion of a Bill that was cast out in that House making it Felony for any to have Powder without Licence It is all one he would have an Act of State for it which should be as binding as an Act of Parliament Sir Pierce Crosby was asked Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford at another time say An Act of Council should be as valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion to what intent He Answered That he doth very well remember the words the time not precisely but he was sure it was soon
and acknowledged by my Lord of Corke to be Sir Paul Davis's hand Upon reading whereof my Lord of Strafford observed That it appears to be a Church-Cause That the Order was just and that the Clause for the Plaintiffs giving of Security to answer the mean Profits which my Lord of Corke said was struck out of the Order and for my Lord of Corke's liberty to bring his Action at Law only he was limited to prosecute it within a year Mr. Leake was produced by my Lord of Strafford and being asked what Authority he hath known the Council-Board in Ireland to exercise both before my Lord of Strafford's coming thither and since in Causes of the Church and Plantation and concerning Contempts to Proclamations and Acts of State and what Countryman he is He Answered That his name is Leake of Leake in the County of Nottingham where he said his Family hath continued 400 years That it is 14 years since he went into Ireland and before this Lords-Deputies time and before that time he did not observe any restraint from Injunctions on the Council-Board till the Instructions published and they did stay them That they proceeded by Injunction Process Bill Answer Examination and other Courses as in the Chancery of England And since the same course hath been held And my Lord of Strafford hath had in the Castle-Chamber divers Causes of Law argued before him concerning the Church wherein one Chadwick and divers others were convented thirty times when he the Examinant was there and heard them twenty he is sure but he thinks thirty But my Lord of Strafford did forbear to give Sentence till he heard these Causes argued That 14 years he hath been very well versed in that Kingdom that he hath known Injunctions have gone out from thence to stay Proceedings in Causes where they have Power of Jurisdiction that he hath known my Lord Chancellor Loftus that was to grant an Injunction without Bill and before any Complaint depended before him and that he himself had the Injunction granted Being asked about the time of his going into Ireland He said he went betwixt 1627. and 1628. Whence observe that the Witness hath made an Observation of the Instructions five years before he came into Ireland Being asked some other questions touching the occasion of his going into Ireland and how he came to take notice of the Proceedings there He Answered He hath been there at several times to pursue some Tenants of his that fled into Ireland and by reason of the Suits and Petitions he prosecuted in his own Right he had occasion to enquire after Proceedings there having been there for the most part of 14 years To the Statute of 28 H. 6. which the Commons have pressed as a Rule for the reâ—ing of Causes to their proper Courts and to annihilate all these Proceedings before the Deputy and Council and before the Deputy alone in his particular Jurisdiction in the nature of a Court of Requests in England I reserve my self to have my Council give satisfaction therein Only desire your Lordships to observe the last Clause saving the King's Prerogative These Proceedings are not against Magna Charta they being according to the Laws and Customs of the Land though it be not the Custom of England And if he hath been an Innovator it hath been to conform Ireland by all ways he could in Religion and Laws to the better and more excellent Pattern of England To the Objection made against Mr. Gwyn he is altogether unknown to me only was recommended to me and here is a Certificate that Gwyn is Master of Arts but that was not read nor insisted on To the matter of words Charged upon him He Answered That words without Fact can be no matter of Treason though of a higher nature then these That words are to be charged within a limited time 1 E. 6. Ca. 12. whereby it is provided That none shall be Impeached concerning Treason for words only if the party being within the Realm be not accused within thirty days If out of the Realm within six months c. Which Proviso his Lordship read and reserved to his Council farther to apply it For the words spoken to my Lord of Corke That neither Law nor Lawyers should dispute my Orders I conceive I might justifie the speaking of them if the Orders and Acts of State be justly warrantable and honourably made Yet it is improbable I should speak the words when the Order refers it self to Law If they were spoken they are at the highest indiscreet and foolish and it is a heavy thing to punish me for not being wiser than God Almighty hath made me For the last words That I would make the said Earl and all Ireland know That so long as I had Government there An Act of State made or to be made should be as binding as an Act of Parliament I observe my Lord of Corke's quick memory that could swear them roundly without missing a letter or sillable as they are laid in the Charge That these words are only in the Charge and so only to be answered to And for Answer I say That in case of an Act done they may be brought collaterally as an inducement to prove the intention But the Act must be proved before they can touch me as of Treason My Lord of Corke is a single Witness and by a Proviso 1 E. 6 Ca. 12. no person after the first of February then following is to be Arraigned c. of Treason c. for any words to be spoken after the said first of February unless the Offendor be accused by two sufficient Witnesses or should without violence confess them To the words spoken of by the other Witnesses being the same in effect I am not to answer being extrajudicially proved and spoken in other places and times than I am Charged withall Yet I think they might be fairly interpreted For if an Act of State be not made against an Act of Parliament or a Fundamental Law of the Land but consistent with it and made by way of provision for remedying some present Mischief in the Common-wealth till the Parliament may provide Redress for it They are as binding during the time they are in force as an Act of Parliament though I confess the Comparison is not good because they be made according to Law and Justice according to the Fundamental Laws of the Land wherein the Prerogative of the Crown hath a part as well as the Property of the Subject For if the Propriety of the Subject as it is and God forbid but it should continue be the second undoubtedly the Prerogative of the Crown is the first Table of that Fundamental Law and hath something more imprinted upon it For if it hath a divinity imprinted upon it it is God's Annointed It is he that gives the Powers And Kings are as Gods on Earth higher Prerogatives than can be said or found to be spoken of the Propriety or Liberty of
the Subject and yet they go on hand in hand and long may they do so long may they go in that Agreement and Harmony which they should have done hitherto and I trust shall be to the last not rising one above another in any kind but kept in their own wonted Channels For if they rise above these heights the one or the other they tear the Banks and overflow the fair Meads equally on one side and other And therefore I do and did allow and ever shall for my part desire they may be kept at that Agreement and perfect Harmony one with another that they may each watch for and not any way watch over the other And therefore this being a Care of the Prerogative as long as it goes not against the Common Law of the Land it is the Law of the Land and binds as long as it transgresses not the Fundamental Law of the Land being made provisionally for preventing of a Temporary Mischief before an Act of Parliament can give a Remedy And this Condition must be implyed That it must be binding provided it be according to the Law of the Land I instance in that Exception that King Iames would take when a man saies he will do a thing as far as he may with Conscience and Honour because in Persons of Conscience and Honour those words are always implied That the Wisdom of our Ancestors hath prevented this Mischief That for a mis-word a Peer of England should lose his Priviledge being as great as any Subjects that live under a King that is not a free Prince of the Empire And the Preamble of a Statute in Queen Elizabeths time the very bent whereof is to take away the dawning of words without any further Act which Preamble was read to their Lordships And so I conclude the words were unwisely spoken because they may be brought to a hard sense but not Criminal for none of them swear any thing done in breach of the Law I except against my Lord Kilmallock's swearing Sir George Ratcliffe to be my Eccho as if he knew my thoughts and against Mr. Hoy as a party concerned in Interest though not in name in a Suit that is or will be brought against me before your Lordships come to the end of the Charge I confess Mr. Waldron's Testimony makes me stagger being the only person could make me believe I said the words I except against Sir Pierce Crosbies Testimony having been formerly Sentenced in Star-Chamber and I know what Sir Pierce Crosby swore there and that I never Communed with him so far as to have such a Discourse as is mentioned in all my life To the Suit in the Castle-Chamber against the Earl of Corke on pretence of breaking an Order of Council-Table I conceive it had relation to an Order made in King Iames his time 20. March 11 Iac. which I desire may be read being now produced as also the Information there exhibited that so I may justifie my Answer in that point of it That the Suit was not upon that Act alone but for other matters also but that was admitted by the Committee And so the reading of them was waved To that Point of Mr. Waldron's Testimony touching the offering of a Lease to the Person concerned rendring the half value I conceive this Circumstance qualifies the words it being according to Law To demonstrate which the Statue was read That no Lease shall be granted upon which less is reserved to the Lessor during 21 years then the moiety of the Lands value And so his Lordship concluded his Defence and the Manager made Reply in substance as followeth That this Article proves my Lord of Strafford's Intention to subvert the Laws That the long time spent in maintaining the Jurisdiction of the Council-Board is the least part of the Article That though these words singly be admitted not to be Treason yet several words and actions must prove the general Charge of his endeavouring to subvert the Laws To the several Provisoes in that Act of Parliament mentioned by my Lord of Strafford concerning words we observe That the words Charged are only matter of Evidence to his general Intention of subverting the Laws And whereas he says they are not charged in time the Commons bring this as done long ago and continuing to this day if he were not prevented so they take him Flagrante Crimine To the Practise of the Council-Table before his time his Witnesses have proved their proceedings in Cases of the Church and Plantations But in other Cases we deny it for it is contrary to Law That admitting the extent given by the Instructions to Church-Causes though the Proclamation hath no such exception Yet it comes not to the Case of my Lord of Cork who claimed the thing in question as a Lay-Impropriation derived to the Crown by the Statute of Dissolution That my Lord of Strafford makes this Government Arbitrary in threatening the Earl of Cork to lay him by the heels if he went to Law whereas the Order gave him liberty That the Original Order in my Lord of Corke's Cause was drawn with these words put out concerning Gwyn's giving Security and that justifies my Lord of Cork's Testimony That notwithstanding my Lord of Strafford's justification of his words That neither Law nor Lawyers should question his Orders This is to assume an Arbitrary Power for if his Orders be legal the Law must justifie them if not question them That the words Of making an Act of State equal to an Act of Parliament are proved by my Lord of Corke and those spoken are a confirmation of those before and expresly within the Article The latter point thereof recites that he spake the words at other times This altogether justifie my Lord of Corke's Testimony though a single Witness and prove that my Lord of Strafford hath made it a habit to speak such words That they have one Witness more and that is my Lord of Strafford himself who says He never spake any thing but truth and said That he would make an Act of State equal to an Act of Parliament We desire that for the taking off the Aspersion cast on Sir Pierce Crosby my Lord of Castlehaven may be examined touching the words alledged to be spoken in his presence The Earl of Castlehaven being sworn and examined touching the said words Answered That it is a business past long ago and but a Table-discourse and he took not much notice of the Circumstances But as he remembers there fell a difference between my Lord of Strafford and Sir Pierce Crosby within three or four months after my Lords coming over and that as well as he can remember my Lord of Strafford did say That an Act of State was equal to an Act of Parliament but he remembers not the occasion That the Justice of the Order in my Lord of Corke's Cause is not material or whether within the Jurisdiction of the Council-Table the Charge being That upon such
an Order made my Lord of Strafford threatned the Earl of Corke for Suing at Law That the Justification brought by my Lord of Strafford is an Aggravation restraining Liberty to Sue at Law to a year else to be concluded for ever Whereas my Lord of Strafford says he hath spoken unwisely but done nothing sure he that Threatens doth something and his Actions will appear in the next Articles For the Priviledge of Peerage It were to be wished he had known or remembred it sooner in my Lord Mountnorris his Case That though he says Acts of State are to be allowed for temporary provision till an Act of Parliament yet when things are propounded and rejected in Parliament shall he supply it by an Act of State We desire to examine one Witness more The Earl of Strafford excepting against it as not regular the Lords Adjourned to their House to take consideration of it And a little after returning the Lord Steward declared their Lordships Resolution That the Witness might be examined The matter in question arising from what was offered from the Earl of Straffords Defence Roger Lotts Sworn and examined what words my Lord of Strafford gave out when an Act for Powder would not pass in the Commons House and what Act of State was thereupon made He Answered That he had the Honour to be one of the Members of that Parliament that began 1634. and ended April 1635. That at the Close of that Parliament my Lord of Strafford then Lord Deputy told the House of Commons then sent for up That they had Voted against some Bills in the lower House amongst the rest that of Gun-powder where it was made Felony for any man to buy or have any unless he got a License first for it That my Lord afterwards told them That notwithstanding they had Voted against it yet he would make that and some other Bills they had Voted against Acts of State that should be as good and said he heard it was done afterwards but he doth not know that This Witness is something of Justification of my Lord of Corke's Testimony against which my Lord of Strafford hath made some Exception And the Lord Digby added something for the Justification of my Lord of Killmallocks Testimony against which my Lord of Strafford had likewise excepted And so the Reply was concluded To the Deposition of Roger Lotts my Lord of Strafford Answered I had received direction concerning Powder it being not conceived fit for Reasons of State to buy and have Powder at pleasure or that that Commodity should be so frequently brought into the Kingdom and committed to unsafe hands so in that point I did but what I was commanded out of many Reasons which I desire I may forbear to express it not conducing to my Acquittal or Condemnation And so the Lords Adjourned The Sixth day Saturday March 27. 1641. THE Fifth Article The Charge That according to such his Declarations and Spéeches the said Earl of Strafford did use and exercise a Power above and against and to the Subversion of the said Fundamental Laws and Established Government of the said Realm of Ireland extending such his Power to the Goods Freé-holds Inheritances Liberties and Lives of his Majesties Subjects of the said Realm and namely the said Earl of Strafford the Twelfth day of December Anno Domini 1635. in the time of full Peace did in the said Realm of Ireland give and procure to be given against the Lord Mountnorris then and yet a Peér of the said Realm of Ireland and then Uice-Treasurer and Receiver-general of the Realm of Ireland and Treasurer at War and one of the Principal Secretaries of State and Kéeper of the Privy Signet of the said Kingdom a Sentence of death by a Council of War called together by the said Earl of Strafford without any Warrant or Authority of Law or Offence deserving any such punishment And he the said Earl did also at Dublin within the said Realm of Ireland in the month of March in the Fourtéenth year of his Majesties Reign without any Legal or due Procéedings or Trial give and cause to be given a Sentence of Death against one other of his Majesties Subjects whose name is yet unknown and caused him to be put to Death in Execution of the same Sentence THe Manager began to open this Article shewing That though my Lord of Strafford insisted on it That whatever his words were his Actions were not against Law This Article comes properly to reply to that Answer It charging him with exercising of a Tyrannical Power over the Person of a Peer of that Realm And first It was desired that the Sentence of Death against my Lord Mountnorris might be read which was attested on Oath to be that which was delivered by Mr. Secretary Windebanck upon the Commons humble Suit to His Majesty for His leave to have a Copy thereof That the Papers concerning my Lord Mountnorris might be delivered into the House occasioned upon my Lord Mountnorris his Petition to the House in that behalf The Sentence was read Reciting first His Majesties Letter Iuly 21. then last wherein notice is taken of the Respect due to the Deputy and General of His Majesties Army and of the Carriage of my Lord Mountnorris holding a Captains place in the Army in uttering Speeches inciting a Revenge on the Earl of Strafford Lord Deputy and Lord General and Command thereby given on receipt thereof to call a Councel of War and that the Lord Mountnorris should undergo such censure as the said Councel of War should impose for the Lord Deputies full reparation Secondly That a Councel of War was accordingly called the words are also set forth and the occasion as followeth That within three or or four days after the Lord Deputy had Dissolved the Parliament his Lordship sitting in the Presence Chamber one of his Servants in moving a Stool happened to hurt the Lord Deputies Foot then indisposed through an accession of the Gout which being spoken of at the Lord Chancellors Table one said to the Lord Mountnorris being there present it was Your Lordships Kinsman who is one of the Lord Deputies Gentlemen Ushers that did it Whereupon the Lord Mountnorris publickly and in a scornful and contemptuous manner answered Perhaps it was done in Revenge of that publick Affront that my Lord Deputy did me formerly But I have a Brother that would not have taken such a Revenge Thirdly The Sentence likewise sets forth That the Lord Mountnorris would not Answer the said Charge negatively or affirmatively though required by the Councel of War Fourthly That thereupon the Witnesses for proof thereof were called viz. Viscount Moore and Sir Robert Loftus who upon Oath deposed the same words to be so then and there spoken and the Lord Mountnorris at last submitted himself to the Councel protesting that whatsoever interpretation might be put upon his words he intended no hurt to the person of his said Lordship
and affirmed That he would dye before he would give the Deputy and General occasion to give him such a Rebuke Fifthly That for the nature of the offence It was conceived to contain a Calumny to the Lord Deputy and General insinuating the affront pretended in these words of my Lord Mountnorris's to be given to the said Kinsman and an Incitement to Revenge and that if the words had been spoken of the Person of the King it had amounted to High Treason which by some rules of Proportion might be applyed to His Deputy Sixthly That the words were spoken when the Lord Deputy had the Honour to be Apparelled with his own Robes of Majesty and Soveraignty when part of the Army was in motion and the Lord Deputy and General present Seventhly That the words were adjudged an apparent breach of the 21st Article of the Printed Orders and Laws for War dated the 13th of March 1633. whereby it is Ordered that no man shall give any disgraceful words of any person in the Army upon pain of Imprisonment publick Disarming c. And also of the 13th Article That no man-shall offer Violence or Contempt to his Commander or do any act or speak any words to breed mutiny in the Army or Impeach the obeying of the principal Officer upon pain of death Eighthly That according to the said Articles the Counsel do unanimously with one joynt consent not one of us of another Opinion adjudge the said Lord Mountnorris for his high and great Offence to be Imprisoned to stand from henceforth deprived of all his Places and Entertainments due which he holds in the Army To be Disarmed to be banished the Army and disabled from ever bearing Office And lastly to be Shot to death or lose his Head at the pleasure of the General Given at His Majesties Castle at Dublin December 12. 1635. Valentia Cromwell This Sentence of Death against a Peer was pronounced by Martial Law against the fundamental Rules of Law without Trial Answer or Hearing That though my Lord of Strafford owns it not yet he made relation of the Injury to His Majesty His Majesty did justly direct that my Lord of Strafford should have just reparation That my Lord of Strafford produceth the Witnesses refused to let my Lord Mountnorris Answer though he demanded the benefit of the Law owns it in his own Person for he said treading on our Foot and an Injury done to us And whereas some would have mitigated it and found him guilty of the first Article He himself pronounceth it both or none The whole proceeding was but half an hour no notice was given before-hand and my Lord Mountnorris checked for desiring to cross-examine My Lord Mountnorris produced as a Witness some Exceptions were taken against him by my Lord of Strafford but were over-ruled His Lordship being Sworn and being directed to declare the whole truth in this business Answered as followeth Upon the 11th of December 1635. I was warned by a Pursevant late at Evening to attend my Lord Deputy in the Council-Chamber at a Council of War next morning by Eight of the Clock Coming thither accordingly I found many of the Council and Captains of the Army and having conferred with several of the chief of them and with my Lord Valentia Cromwell and others they said they knew not for what that Council of War was summoned after a whiles stay my Lord Deputy came into the Room and sat down at the Boards end and commanded the rest to sit down where my self that had the Honour to be His Majesties Vice-Treasurer by His Grace and Goodness sate in my place After all were set my Lord Deputy exprest he had called that Court to do himself Right and Reparation against my Lord Mountnorris At those words I rose up from my place and humbly presented my self at the Boards end as the manner is near his Lordship who making some Speech about words uttered by me shortly after the preceding Parliament which was April 18. 1635. and the words spoken within three or four days after took a Paper in his hand and out of that read the words wherewith he charged me to the effect I conceive as they are mentioned in the Sentence After his Lordship had read them he demanded of me whether I would confess them or deny them I did humbly desire I might have the Charge in writing that I might Answer it by advice of Learned Counsel the words being charged to be spoken long before and it was hard to Answer them suddenly His Lordship Answered That was not the course of a Martial Court I must Answer directly I did several times desire I might have the Charge in writing and my Lord of Strafford answered in the same kind That I must Answer whether I would confess or deny them Two or Three of the Counsel of War spoke something also to that purpose as I remember the Lord Cromwell for one and Sir Ch. Coote and Sir Iohn Burlacy who intimated that the manner was I must confess them or deny them Standing a while silent my Lord Deputy said He thought they must proceed against me as a Mute for he will not Answer and therefore they must take them for granted I said over again what I had said before and desired I might have my Charge in writing and that I might have Advice of Counsel that I might be used as a Peer of the Realm and an Officer of the Crown and still his Lordship denied That must not be It was not the Order of a Martial Court I replyed and told the Lord Deputy I had seen it otherwise in a Martial Court in England between my Lord Reas and Ramzie where the Cause was debated by the Advocates in writing The Lord Deputy told me again That must not be I must Answer directly and hereupon the Lord Deputy caused His Majesties Letter dated the last of Iuly to be read and when that was read required me to make Answer I confess I was amazed at hearing of this Letter and was much grieved and with Humility and Grief expressed on my Knees what Sorrow it had wrought on me and that I had never willingly Offended His Majesty or His Laws And declared that I had been mis-represented to His Majesty and those Letters were got by mis-information and humbly desired a Copy of those Letters and the Charge that I might Answer by writing and that His Majesty might know my Answer before further Proceedings His Lordship upon that rebuked me with worse Language than was fit to be used to a meaner man and not a Peer that desired but Law and Justice The Lord Deputy told me I was not mis-represented to His Majesty for himself had represented me and that matter to His Majesty and he did not use to mis-represent any thing And then directly required me whether I would confess them or deny them If not he would prove them on Oath and thereupon my Lord Deputy called for my Lord Moore sitting
at Board with him and required him to give his Testimony who had an Oath given him by the Lord Deputies command by the Clerk of the Council and referred himself to what he and Sir Robert Loftus had long before put under their hands Thereupon the Lord Deputy gave that Paper to the Clerk of the Council to read which was the Paper the Lord Deputy held in his hand and out of which he had read the Charge And that being shewed to my Lord Moore he said to his best remembrance those were the words spoken Sir Robert Loftus was also called in and he being required to give his Testimony referred himself to that which he and my Lord Moore had put under their hands and being shewed him with his hand to it he affirmed it Then my Lord Deputy asked me what I could now say since the words were proved to my face I humbly told his Lordship and made solemn protestation and offered to take my Oath That I did never speak the words as I was able to prove by several Witnesses and desired That the Lord Chancellor at whose Table they were spoken and Judge Martial of the Kingdom then in Town might be summoned to give his Testimony for truth and Sir Adam Loftus his Son and near twenty others and desired they might be examined in the Cause and that I was well able to prove that the words charged to be spoken by me were not spoken by me but by others as to that part that concerns the Affront but his Lordship refused me to have any examined Being asked whether all the Army was then on the march as my Lord of Strafford had said in his Answer He Answered There was at that time three or four or five Companies I am not able to say how many When my Witnesses were refused and I had made my protestation that I had not spoken them and was ready to prove it my Lord Deputy Answered That he knew my Oathes and Protestations well enough I took Exception to the Testimony of the Lord Moore and Sir Robert Loftus as I might in a Legal way But my Lord Deputy rebuked me and spoke in commendation of them and bid my Lord Moore sit down now and be one of my Judges And thereupon commanded me to withdraw which I did and went out into a Gallery by where I stayed about the space of half an hour I think not more I am sure not an hour and was then called in and at the beginning was required to Kneel as a Delinquent which I conceived I was not having endeavoured always to shew my self a faithful Officer Then my Lord Deputy commanded Sir Charles Coote to pronounce the Sentence as Provost Martial of Connaught which he did briefly in effect as in the Sentence And my Lord Deputy took occasion to make a Speech and told me invectively enough amongst other things there remained no more now if he pleased but to cause the Provost Martial to do Execution But withall added That for matter of Life he would supplicate His Majesty And I think he said he would rather lose his Hand than I should lose my Head which I took to be the highest scorn to compare his the Lord Deputies Hand with my Head I said I never did and hoped I never should endanger my Head by Offending His Majesties Laws I was hereupon commanded to be taken to Prison by the Constable of the Castle who took me thence away what past in the time of my absence I knew not but the Articles I was charged with breach of were not declared nor I urged to Answer if I had I could have Answered I knew of no such Articles nor ever saw them till Iune 1636. published by his own Authority and made in time of War And though made for regulating of the Army yet were never put in practice And on a Conference with some of the Council of War I was informed they differed in Opinion amongst themselves and some moved both the Articles might not be pressed And his Lordship Answered he would have both or none Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion how long after the Sentence given he remained a Prisoner in the Castle I was Committed the 12th and remained until the 18th and was not released by any Favour of my Lord Deputy but on a Certificate of the Physitians and that not admitted but upon Oath That I was in peril of my Life and a Petition drawn by them that had more care of my Health than my self being so afflicted in body and mind with the high Injustice and Oppression I had that I was extreamly ill and was then remitted on Security given by the Chief Justice in 2000 l. Bond to be a Prisoner Being asked on the Committees behalf whether he was not taken to Prison again and how long he continued in Prison for this Cause I continued at my House and was very ill and after that several times was called to the Council-Table by my Lord Deputy and an Information exhibited in the Star-Chamber for pretended Crimes which I shall ever desire to Answer in any publick Legal Judicature rather than live And I was imprisoned again the 11th of April being sent for to my House and found with my Counsel about me preparing my Answer in the best manner I could and the Advice was I should demurr to that Information because I stood under the Sentence of death I was carried by the Constable to the Castle and brought before my Lord Deputy and the said 11th of April 1636. was committed close Prisoner and there continued till the second of May And I knew no other cause but that I had as he said neglected the Kings Grace and had sent my Wife into England and transgressed a Proclamation To which I answered I had not transgressed it that my Wife was full of Grief at my Calamities and I had sent her to save my Life Then my Lord Deputy told me that I had refused the Kings Grace offered me in not accepting his Pardon which I thought not Legal for me to take And thereupon Committed me Being asked on the Lord Lieutenants motion whether the Council were not present He Answered Some of the Council were present but my Lord Committed me the Council not speaking a word Being asked again about the time of his Commitment I was first Committed the 12th of December let go the 18th to my House Committed again the 11th of April put out the second of May I was then in great Extremity and admitted to my House again where I lay in a long continuing sickness and under the hands of Physitians And the 30th of Ianuary afterwards because I sued not out the Pardon was imprisoned again and there continued till March 1637. The Lord Dillom was called and after some exception taken by my Lord of Strafford to the examining of him because he might speak things that amount to an Accusation of himself the same was over-ruled
for him towards the upper end of the Table And there stood charged with several dis-respectful words spoken by him and the words mentioned in the Censure that was read were the words That he was charged to have spoken those words in breach of certain Articles by which the Army of Ireland was Governed the 13th and the 41st That there was much interlocution from my Lord Deputy to my Lord Mountnorris and returned from my Lord Mountnorris to my Lord the substance was That he was ready to give his Charge That he had violated those Articles That my Lord Mountnorris desired time to answer by Counsel and that he might have his Charge in writing That being not readily granted he insisted on it That he might have time to prepare his Answer but was told it was contrary to the form of that proceeding But whether that Objection of the form came from my Lord himself or from some other Member of the Board that I heard before named I cannot possibly say But thus stands the state of it my Lord Mountnorris neither confessing nor denying the Charge my Lord Deputy replyed Sir If you do neither confess nor deny the Charge how shall we proceed The Deputy called on the Lord Moore and said What shall we say to this business My Lord saith the Lord Moore what I can say is under my Hand That a little time after a Letter was read from the King whereby His Majesty was pleased to give direction to proceed in a Martial Court for Reparation and Honour of the Lord Deputy on the Complaint and Information given to the King That my Lord Mountnorris instantly fell on his Knees expressing a great deal of Grief and Sorrow and in truth Passion and had not much to say for himself and soon after was bid to withdraw and being withdrawn my Lord Deputy said That as he had complained to the King so he would expect that Honour from the Board That his Cause should be taken into consideration and such Redress given as was fit He demanded Justice according to the Articles insisted on And having declared it there was a silence amongst us for some time That he was the first that brake that silence and in as humble manner and terms as he could light upon did humbly desire my Lord Deputy to give him leave to ask whether he would give leave to wave either of those Articles but my Lord said he would demand Justice on both That this being so there was some Interlocution of discourse among the Council and in truth he thinks that he was one of the first that said that these Articles and the words cannot bear so good a construction but that there may be some danger of a breach upon these Articles Being asked whether the words were not represented to the Council of War in a Paper written and the Testimony given in pursuance of that Paper He Answered That as he remembers my Lord Moore having made a return to my Lord Deputy My Lord What I can say your Lordship hath under my hand he thinks my Lord Deputy said My Lord if you deny it I have it under your hand to shew And thereupon as he remembers the Clerk of the Council standing by had direction to draw up some Interrogatories which my Lord Moore did acknowledge and Sir Robert Loftus too did affirm that they were spoken by my Lord Mountnorris as much as was mentioned in the Paper Being asked how many Companies of the Army were then in Town how many in a Company and whether they were exercised in a more than ordinary Training and how many Companies the Army consists of He Answered That he thinks the Horse-Troops were 40 or 50 at the most some my Lords own The Foot-Companies were 50. And of those Companies there were he takes it two Horse-Troops besides my Lord 's own Troop and four Foot-Companies they were called up to guard and attend our Occasions in Parliament and they did their Duties as Souldiers every day as indeed my Lord of Strafford was careful of well exercising the Army as any General he ever saw and there are forty Companies of the old standing Army Being asked on my Lord of Straffords Motion Whether my Lord of Strafford did not declare he would not give Judgment in the Cause but Appeal to them as a Suitor for Reparation He Answered That my Lord of Strafford held them to the Point of the Articles demanding Justice on the Articles that he said sometimes he would depend on our Judgment in it and yet he would hold us to the Point of the Articles And further that if there were not a necessity of his being there he would have withdrawn too But my Lord would not give the Council a latitude to proceed according to the King's Letter for Reparation but he held them to the Point of the Articles Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's Motion Whether he did not tell my Lord Mountnorris when he went out of the Room that he would not speak a word till he came into the Room again and whether he did not do it accordingly and whether he sate bare all the while as a Party and not as a Judge In answer he desired leave to offer to their Lordships that he acquainted their Lordships before that as soon as my Lord Mountnorris was withdrawn my Lord did declare what he the Lord Renula had formerly said But after the Council fell into debate of it he spake not a word nor gave any interruption And he cannot positively say that he sate bare all the while Being asked Whether this was not in the time of full Peace and whether any Rebels or Enemies were in the Kingdom He Answered Certainly it was a time of very full and happy Peace To prove that in discourse concerning this Sentence my Lord said afterwards He would not lose the Honour or Share of it The Earl of Cork being asked to that purpose Answered That all he can remember is that the Sentence was publickly read in the Star-Chamber and my Lord said He would not lose his Share in the Honour of it but he cannot remember the day Lord Viscount Dillon asked to that purpose Answered That he happened to be in the Star-Chamber that day by my Lord of Strafford's Command and carried the Sword that day That the reading of the Sentence he remembers not but the words he heard That the Sentence given against my Lord Mountnorris by the Council of War was a noble and just Sentence and for his part he would not lose his share of the Honour of it The Commons proceeded to that part of the Charge which concerns the execution of another man by Martial Law William Castigatt sworn being asked several questions touching that part particularly Whether he knew one executed by Martial Law and by whom c. He Answered Yes his name was Thomas Denewitt and it was last Summer was two years that he was on the Green when he was
Pattern from my Lord Faulkland my Lord Grandison and my Lord Chichester and he did it by the Power he had the Honour to hold under His Majesty as General That yet he used them so sparingly that neither in that time nor in the Government of Munster in which he had as large Authority as ever any man had he never did condemn a man to death in peaceable times and that the Authority hath been good That Martial-Law is so frequent and ordinary in Ireland that it is not to be denied and so little offensive there that the Common Law takes no exception at it That he hath lived to see three or four Parliaments there and they never complained of it And to Govern an Army without Martial-Law is impossible for occasions in an Army rise on a suddain and something must be done on a suddain for example-sake to others That Martial-Law was certainly in Ireland ever since he remembers and long before but it hath been used so sparingly that in the time of Peace for his part he did never know any executed in his time Being asked on the Lord Strafford's Motion Whether he hath known Sir Charles Coote as Provost-Martial of Conaught and Sir Iohn Bower Provost-Marshall of Leimster in time of Peace execute divers Persons Rebels and others by Martial-Law He Answered For Sir Charles Coote he can very well answer though he had Authority yet it is out of his memory that he ever executed any And for Sir Iohn Bower he dwelleth remote from him that the said Sir Iohn Bower hath Authority and so have many other Presidents Marshalls of the Army Provost-Marshalls of every Province and upon great Reasons for it for though they be Inferior men yet the intent of their Commission is but to prosecute those men that cannot be had into the Law that is Rebels and Fugitives and those men he hath heard have been hanged Whence my Lord of Strafford inferred That he had done nothing de Novo That Provost-Marshalls have been always appointed and executed those Places under the General for the time being The Committee admitted that there be four Provost-Marshalls but deny that they exercise Marshall-Law That those Provost-Marshalls have executed divers men to death by Marshall-Law Rebels and Traytors I desire to produce an Order of my Lord of Faulkland's taken from his Book of Entries but being not proved nor written with my Lord Faulkland's own hand the reading of it was not admitted but left to their Lordships Consideration To prove the Practise of the Provost-Marshalls Sir Adam Loftus being asked concerning the Provost-Marshalls executing of Marshall-Law before my Lord of Strafford's time and on what men He Answered That it is most apparent in all times since he can remember Martial-Law hath been executed that 's undoubted But it was on Rebels and Out-Laws and he hath known no other but such executed by Martial-Law Lord Robert Dillon being asked to the same purpose Answered He hath heard the Provost-Marshals have taken and hanged men by Martial-Law in time of Peace since the beginning of King Iames his Reign that of Rebels and Out-Laws there is no question My Lord of Strafford desired to compare his Orders with those of my Lord of Wilmotts And they were compared accordingly in divers Articles His Lordship produced a Copy of His Majesties Letter attested to be a true Copy by Charles Gibson Which was read being the Letter recited in the Sentence of my Lord Mountnorris I observe That the Sentence of my Lord Mountnorris takes notice that the Army was part of it in motion and divers Companies daily exercised and that my self was for the most part there present which shews the truth of my Answer to that Point in part To free my self from the said Sentence I desire a Letter from my self and Council of War to Secretary Cook 13. December immediately after the Sentence may be read to shew that I was a Suitor to the King in my Lord Mountnorris's behalf But being after the Sentence and written by himself and the Council of War for extenuating of the Fact the reading of it was over-ruled I conceive my Lord Renula and Lord Dillon made it appear that I declined giving Judgment in the Sentence But for further proof Sir Robert Farrer was asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not declare he would be no Judge nor give Opinion in that Cause and whether he sate bare He Answered That he was present at the Sentence and heard my Lord of Strafford say that he would give no Judgment nor have to do with the business concerning my Lord Mountnorris and he sate a good time with his hat off Being asked on one of the Committees motion touching his pressing of both the Articles He said He acknowledged my Lord did require Judgment on both Articles and yet sate silent at the time they were upon the Sentence Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not desire them to regard him no more than an ordinary Officer and do no otherwise than in reason and judgment they should think fit He Answered My Lord of Strafford said these very words That they should not look upon him but go to the Cause according to their Opinion directly And being asked Whether my Lord Mountnorris was a Captain of the Army He Answered Yes and the Council did admit it Sir George Wentworth being asked to the same purpose as Sir Robert Farrer He Answered He was present at the Sentence and heard my Lord of Stafford say publickly He did not sit there as a Judge and that he would give no Vote in it Being asked Whether my Lord of Stafford did not tell Sir George Wentworth that he should give no Vote in it because he was his Lordships Brother He Answered Yes and he gave no Judgment upon that reason that my Lord of Strafford did publickly bid them all look on him as a private man and sate by as a Suitor not as a Judge and put off his hat at the beginning to speak and sate uncovered all the while till Sentence was pronounced To shew that my Lord Mountnorris was enlarged by me presently after I here produce the Warrant Dated 18. December though indeed he was released 15. December The denial of my Lord Mountnorris to examine Witnesses was by my Lord Cromwell Sir Charles Coote Sir Iohn Burlacy not by me I sitting by as a private party For this I refer to my Lord Mountnorris's own Deposition and my Lord Renula's To prove it further Sir Robert Farrer was asked touching the denying of further time and Council He Answered He cannot tell who denied him he remembers my Lord Cromwell spake something but knows not whether to that effect Sir Robert Farrer being asked on one of the Managers Motion Whether before their coming together they did know the occasion of their meeting He Answered He did not he was warned to attend and did not know the business till he came thither I did never
Communicate it to any man till I brought the Letter because I was resolved to speak of it to no man living and in conclusion left it wholly to the Council For the words That I would not lose my share in the Honour of that Sentence if I spake the words I meant the Justice and satisfaction done me by that Sentence being by the prime Officers of the Kingdom And whereas it was said yesterday that though I thought it hard to lay words to my Charge yet I thought it not hard to lay words to the Lord Mountnorris his Charge there is a difference between laying words to a man's Charge to Accuse and Condemn him of High-Treason to loss of Estate Life Honour and Posterity and pressing words to only two days Imprisonment being only intended to discipline my Lord Mountnorris and teach him to govern his Speech with more modesty His Defence to the business of Denwitt's Execution He confesses his Vote concurred and thinks he had Authority and may justifie it He produced the Sentence Dated 13. February 1638. where his Crimes are set forth to be the fellonious stealing of a quarrer of Beef and running away from his Colours in breach of the 9th and 6th Articles for which he was sentenced to Death according to the use of Martial-Law His Lordship opened the Nature of the Offence being committed at a time when the 500 men were attending to go to Carlisle and the Example might be dangerous and desired Sir George Mountnorris might be asked Whether Denwitt was not convicted to be guilty adding that he had been burnt in the hand and running from his Colours is death by the Laws of Ireland He produced a Statute of Ireland 20 H. 6. C. 19. whereby it is Enacted That every man that receives the King's Wages and departs from his Captain c. shall be proceeded against as a Felon As also the Statute 7 H. 7. C. 1. The departing of a Souldier from his Colours is Felony and the Offendor to undergo punishment of Law And 10 H. 7. all Laws formerly made in England are to be in force in Ireland and so that of 7 H. 7. For further clearing whereof he refers himself to the Council One of the Managers did make Reply in substance as followeth That if this Fact be not Treason yet it seems to prove his Intention to subvert the Law which is Treason Whereas he hopes for the King's Mercy so the Commons do as really trust for the King's Justice The Commission he insists on is limitted with Si opus fuerit and the King intends Execution according to Law Magna Charta and the rest of the Laws of England being of force in Ireland There hath been an Army in pay in Ireland since Henry the Eighths time and so there are some in pay here in Portsmouth and Plymouth and yet it follows not England must be Governed by Martial-Law The Lord Wilmott was produced by him to justifie the publishing of Orders and exercise of Martial Law in Ireland But we Appeal to your Lordships Whether he gave Testimony of executing any by Martial-Law Sir Adam Loftus says There are Provost-Marshalls and they do use to put men to death but they are Rebels whom they execute which squares not with this Case only that of Sir Thomas Wayneman is a full President For the King's Letter it is written on his Information and if the King's Ministers misinform him He is just before God and men and the Letter directs Reparation as it was fit there should be My Lord pretends he was no Judge in the Cause your Lordships may remember who procured the Letter to proceed and who sate there to manage the business though he sate with his Hat off if he would have been indifferent he should have left the Counsellors to themselves And when some moved they might proceed on one Article he cryed both and so he was the Procurer of the Sentence with which he is charged not with the Voting of it He pretends he sate by and said nothing yet no man talked more at the Sentence than himself He proves not the Course of Martial-Law and there is a Judge-Marshal to whom in any proceedings in a Martial way address should be made and it was desired he might be called to testifie how they went about it Another of the Managers did add by way of Reply That whereas my Lord of Strafford insists much as if Martial-Law were part of the same Law of Ireland but the 25 E. 3. is in force there and that is recited in the Petition of Right in force here as the ground why Martial-Law ought not to be in England and therefore there is the same ground why it should not be in Ireland For that Commission he speaks of Opus est is Martial-Law when there is bellum flagrans but what need was there of Martial-Law in my Lord Mountnorris his Case when he would rather lose his Hand than the Sentence be executed For the Orders made by my Lord Wilmott and others there is difference between making an Order in way of terror for fear of Execution and putting that thing in execution Many Witnesses are produced to prove the practise but not one speaks in point of Execution unless upon Rebels and Traytors and such as would not come into Law whereas my Lord Mountnorris was had into the Law Whereas he takes the Example of those before him the Commons cannot see the Restrictions put upon his Commission for Martial-Law but in the preceding Deputies time there was a limitation that the Provost should leave the Souldiers to trial at Law except in time of War and Rebellion The Statute of 20 H. 6. is against him for it makes the Souldiers running from his Colours Felony and certainly meant it should be tried by that Law that makes it Felony which would have given him the benefit of Clergy not by Martial-Law And though he thinks he may justifie it he falls at last to a Pardon He says He acquainted no body before hand with the business but if he may give the Interpretation he will be sure to put a good end to it if he would not prepare the Council for Justice why should not the Delinquent be prepared The words are pretended to be spoken in April my Lord of Strafford procures the King's Letter in Iuly and questions it not till December here is no opus est The very words of the Order the Witnesses were examined by our Command which make it his own One of the Managers desired that two of the Instructions of former Deputies might be read To this my Lord of Strafford excepted as supplemental and dangerous and not warranted by any other Judicature After some debate touching the admitting of my Lord of Ely to be examined to the Course of Martial-Laws in Ireland being new matter arising out of his Answer It was Resolved that he should be examined only to that new matter The Earl of
Ely sworn was examined what was the proceedings of the Marshalls Court when he was Judge-Marshall and how long he had been so He Answered He was 40 years since Judge there and for the manner of proceeding There was never any Deputy or Governor of that Kingdom but they had a Commission of Martial-Law to be exercised in the time of their Government but the exercise of that Law was two-fold one was Summary the other was Plenary That which was Summary and short was committed to the Provost-Marshall that sought after the Rebels and Kernes that kept the Woods These when they were apprehended the Provost-Marshall hanged them on the next Tree and this was in poor Cases where the estate of the party that prosecutes is not worth 40 s. In the second which is the Plenary proceeding there are three Considerations to be had of the time the place and the person the time must necessarily be in time of War the place in the Field and the persons must be such as are subject to the Rule of Martial-Law And the proceeding was thus The parties complained the other appearing an Information was drawn in writing Witnesses produced and reduced in writing a Sentence given absolutely or condemnatory and the Party punished or acquitted and the Warrant directed to the Provost-Marshall to put the Judgment in Execution But when the Army was dissolved and every one returned to their own home Souldiers Captains and Commanders this Power ceased and was no farther executed for it had been an extraordinary damage to His Majesty that by the Martial-Law every one should be tried for he loses nothing but his life not his Lands or his Goods and therefore the proceeding without was so slow and seldom that he had not remembred any man of quality worth 100 l. or 200 l. in thirty years to have been executed by Martial-Law Here the Manager did offer the Instructions given in my Lord Faulkland's time which Mr. Fitz-Gerard testified to be by him examined with the Original in the Signet-Office as to the 33. and 34th Articles Part of the Instructions were read viz. 33. Such as are to be brought to Trial at Law are not to be executed by the Marshal except in time of War and Rebellion One of the Managers observed That my Lord of Strafford would have Power of Martial-Law over my Lord Mountnorris but would not execute him which shews he desires not blood so much as Power of blood that the Law of all the Peers might be under his Girdle and he besought their Lordships to consider it Whereas he said The blood of their Lordships Ancestors was spent in the Irish Wars this way their own blood may be spent in the Peace of Ireland and Peace of England c. My Lord of Strafford taking notice of some words charging him that my Lord Mountnorris lost his Offices in that Sentence In way of Answer said That they were lost in a Sentence in the Castle-Chamber for Misdemeanors fully proved and by himself confessed and therefore His Majesty disposed of them To which one of the Managers Replyed That there was no sentence in the Castle-Chamber against him And so after some Discourses and Resolution touching the Method of the Proceedings about the next Articles the House was Adjourned The First day Monday March 29. 1641. THE Sixth Article The Charge That the said Earl of Strafford without any Legal Procéedings and upon a Paper-Petition of Richard Rolstone did cause the said Lord Mountnorris to be disseized and put out of possession of his Freehold and Inheritance of his Mannor of Tymore in the County of Armagh in the Kingdom of Ireland the said Lord Mountnorris having béen 18 years before in quiet Possession thereof MR. Glyn opened the Sixth Article setting forth the Execution of an Arbitrary Power by the Earl of Strafford contrary to Law in point of the Estates of His Majesties Subjects by disseizing and putting the Lord Mountnorris a Peer out of Possession of Lands of 200 l. a year which he had possessed 18 years before on a Paper-Petition without any Rules of Justice during the said Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment contrary to an Act of Parliament read the other day to King Iames his Instructions to the directions of His Majesties Proclamation and the Rules of proceeding in the Kingdom of Ireland The Decree made in the Cause betwixt Rolstone and my Lord Mountnorris was first offered the Manager observing that it was nothing to the matter whether the Decree were just or unjust and that it never depended in the Chancery as is set forth in his Answer Thomas Little the Lord of Strafford's Secretary being sworn attested that the Copy produced was under his own hand And here my Lord of Strafford informed their Lordships that upon his Defence he would ask Mr. Little some questions desiring their Lordships to remember that he is upon his Oath The Decree was read Dated 28. Iuly 1637. whereby for the Reasons therein set forth and with the assistance of the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas It was among other things Ordered That Henry Rolston should be put into quiet Possession of certain Lands therein mentioned Lord Mountnorris being Examined Whether he was put out of possession by Vertue of that Order and how long he had Possession of the Lands He Answered He was in quiet and peaceable Possession from May 20. till he was put out by my Lord of Strafford's Warrant August 29. 1637. as was written to him from an Agent that was there from the delivery of the Warrant to the Sheriff That he was all the while the business was in prosecution till his coming into England a little before his putting out of possession in prison under restraint for not suing out his Pardon upon the Sentence of the Council of War Mr. Anslow sworn and interrogated to the same purpose Answered That to my Lord Mountnorris's possession of the Lands he can say only by seeing the Accounts passed by former Receivers and the Patent my Lord Mountnorris had of the Land but for his being put out of the possession by the Order he found when he was left in Ireland about a year and half ago he was put out of possession by an Order of my Lord of Strafford and that he being there could have no Rents paid Henry Rolsion's Son being in possession the Father being dead Being asked Whether a Petition was not preferred for liberty to proceed at Law He Answered It was in his own behalf for the Land was estated on him by his Father And that he the Deponent being to pass his Land on the Commission of Grace Rolston Petitioned for it himself and therefore he the Deponent Petitioned it might be hindred to pass and that he might have his Right tried legally but he could get no Answer the Commissioners saying They sate not there to question any Lords Estate The Manager observed this to be the assuming
according to the Power of former Deputies yet not to meddle with Titles of Free-hold except in Cases of Equity but to refer Title of Free-hold to its proper Judicature and not to hear Causes where there is Priority in other Courts unless in case of Appeal for lack of Justice after due Obedience Power likewise the said Rules observed to call before him any person complained of and therein to make such Order and Decree as shall stand with Justice and to cause the same to be put in Execution Dated October 5. 9 Car. He then offered the first Decree in the Cause to be read that had formerly been read having relation to this bearing date May 23. 1636. And the same was read being Signed Wentworth Gerard Lowther c. Whence his Lordship observed That the Order was made for Relief of a poor man where my Lord of Mountnorris had by Violence and extream hard pressure possest himself of Lands worth 200 l. a year never paying out of his Purse above 30 l. the rest arising on a Letter procured for Sawing Mills and by interest at above 20 in the hundred wherein his Lordship had the Assistance of two Reverend and Learned Judges the Chancellor that now is and Sir Gerard Lowther That the Decree is in every part just and equitable and if he had not given relief he had been justly censured That the party is now in Town and means to complain and Sue for 600 l. more than he is yet allowed The Committee declared they insist not on the merit of the Cause as not being material And so my Lord of Strafford observed That he stands justified by the Kings Letter which makes things differ from what they did formerly and shew that the Power was there before and is now restored His Lordship further added that his Practice in exercising Jurisdiction was conformable to that Letter viz. That he medled not with Title of Land triable at Law nor with Causes which had priority of Suit in other Courts That he referred the business of the Provincial Courts to these Courts and many businesses to the Judges of Assize and none determined by him but upon full Hearing and Assistance of the Judges And whereas it is said my Lord Mountnorris was kept in Prison by reason of not Suing out the Pardon on his Sentence pronounced by the Council of War I will make it appear it was for Contempts in refusing to answer a Bill Exhibited against him on the Kings behalf in the Castle-Chamber Mr. Slingsby being asked touching that point Answered That he did constantly wait on my Lord to the Castle-Chamber and there heard the Information of the Kings Attorney against my Lord Mountnorris read and my Lord Mountnorris was called to Answer it several times and was committed to Prison for not Answering it but he cannot precisely speak to the time but he thinks he was left in Prison upon that till my Lords going into England Sir Adam Loftus asked touching the same point did first make his humble Suit that he might not be Examined in any Cause concerning my Lord Mountnorris for some reasons inducing him thereunto Which my Lord of Strafford said was because Sir Adam succeeded my Lord Mountnorris in the place of Vice-Treasurer and being required if that were all to speak notwithstanding He Answered That he conceives he was Committed for not answering the Information but the precise day of his Commitment and the time how long he cannot well remember Being asked whether he was not brought before the Deputy a day or two before he came away and refused to Answer and was thereupon Committed He Answered That it was true Being asked on the Managers motion whether he was not Committed on the old Sentence and remained in Prison on that He Answered That he doth not know If I had time to produce the Orders of the Castle-Chamber I could make it appear when my Lord Mountnorris was Committed and how long he continued so but he was Committed for that Contempt and remained Committed six Months I think before he would Answer which I would not speak if it were not true The Lord Dillon called and asked to the same purpose He Answered That the Judges of the Castle-Chamber are by Commission and that he is not of that Commission That the Deputy or Chief Governour calls by way of Assistance such as he pleases That he heard at Council-Board my Lord Mountnorris was Committed for a Contempt in not answering in the Star-Chamber but when it began or how long he knows not In Execution of this Jurisdiction I had no private advantage to my self nothing but trouble was gained by it no new thing was done but such as was formerly by all the Chief Governours there and such as I had special Warrant for from His Majesty I have observed the Rules that guide others in Chancery and other Courts of Equity and the Judges in their Circuits Therefore it can be no Subversion of the Laws for the same thing done by others hath been Legally done it differs only in respect of place being before my self and so cannot be Treason And though it might be Illegal here yet it is according to the Laws and Customs of Ireland by which I am to be judged for all things there done And the same is done by the Presidents of the North and of Wales who did familiarly receive Petitions from Poor people that cannot seek remedy by a Legal course and yet it is not Treason in England And it cannot sink into my understanding how the enlargement of a Jurisdiction should be strained to High Treason specially being warranted by ancient Practice and modern Authority being only according to the nature of a Court of Requests and not entrenching on the Jurisdiction of Law Courts And so I hope this will never rise up in Judgment against me as Treason either in it self or by way of Application The Manager began his Reply in substance as followeth Whereas my Lord of Strafford says This is not Treason this is the burden of his Song But this is one of the particulars that prove his design to subvert the fundamental Laws of both Kingdoms He will not acknowledge a cumulative Treason he must have a Treason over Shooes and Boots yet if he will look on it all together he shall see the horridness of it and it will prove as great a Treason as ever was presented to a House of Parliament The Manager opened the Article and said they dispute not whether if it had been done in Chancery or other Courts it had been well done but it is done by him without Rule of Law and hereupon he hath drawn to himself an Arbitrary Power Whereas my Lord of Strafford to take from himself the Act of Parliament 28 H. 6. enjoyning That Causes should be referred to the proper Courts urged the last words Saving the Kings Prerogative We do observe That when he is Charged with an Exorbitant proceeding
Letters Patents under the Great Seal to exercise a Power against Law was complained of in Parliament and had Judgment for it among other things of High Treason They proceeded to Proof And first The Earl of Corke being asked whether before my Lord of Straffords time he hath known the Deputy or Justices alone determine any matter of Land in Equity or otherwise He Answered He remembers not any except in cases of the Church and Plantation The Lord Ranulagh being asked to that point Answered Never any to his knowledge having been of the Table two and twenty years Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same point Answered He remembers not any having been a Privy-Counsellor 20 years The Lord Mountnorris being asked to that point Answered He never knew any having been a Privy-Counsellor since 14 Iac. and lived in Ireland 38 years That he was there all the time of my Lord Chichester or very near and was so acquainted with his proceedings that he dare engage himself for all he is worth that the Lord Chichester never put any such Order under his hand The Earl of Bath Sworn and asked to that point Answered That he hath often heard the Deputy in cases of Debt for relief of poor men hath proceeded alone but in cases of Land he never heard of any To take off Henry Dillon's Testimony the Manager alledged That he had been Sentenced at the Council-Board for speaking untruths My Lord of Strafford desired the Exception might not be made some Exceptions by him made to Witnesses against him being not admitted and that there might be unum pondus una mensura The Manager Answered In eodem genere Mali. This Exception is not for Extortion or collateral matters but for Perjury Thereupon his Acknowledgment was read wherein he confesses he had highly transgressed against the Honour of His Majesty and the Board in presuming to declare apparent untruths And that such an Acknowledgment was made was testified by Sir Adam Loftus and likewise by the Lord Dillon who shewed their Lordships the occasion thereof To the matter of my Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment it was offered under my Lord of Straffords own hand to shew that it was partly upon the Sentence December 24. 1636. My Lord of Strafford not denying it to be his hand it was read being a Reference upon my Lord Mountnorris his Petition and in substance as followeth That for the Petitioners restraint more than twelve months he hath no body to blame but himself that hath all that space lain under a deserved censure of the Council of War and stood in Contempts and trifled with the Court of Castle-Chamber That His Majesties removal of the Sentence hath been often signified but never sued forth That the Petitioner did to the same effect Petition the Lord Deputy in May last and therefore all the Answer that for the present can be given is that his most gracious Pardon seeks no man nor can His Majesty remit all of that Sentence to be applied to the Petitioners benefit till by his humble suit he procured His Majesties Pardon under the Great Seal c. which taking the usual way and humbly acknowledging the justness of that Sentence he may have c. A Petition was then read directed to the Earl of Strafford from my Lord Mountnorris Praying a Warrant for a Pardon under the Great Seal according to the Law and the purport of His Majesties directions if his Lordship shall conceive His Majesties Letters on which the Lord Mountnorris relied as sufficient did not amount to a Legal Pardon Then was read my Lord of Straffords Answer Dublin Ianuary 30. 1636. When the Petitioner shall prefer his Petition for the said Pardon acknowledging the justness of the Sentence pronounced against him by the Council of War we shall take his Request into our further consideration Wentworth Whence one of the Managers observed That the King directs a Pardon to be drawn and till the Sentence be acknowledged to be just no consideration shall be taken and that the Preamble of the Pardon recites as much and he would not suffer it to be Sealed till this Acknowledgment passed Then was produced the Lady Mountnorris her Petition to His Majesty referred to the Lord Strafford Mr. Anslowe Sworn attested the truth of the Copy and it was read Setting forth her Sorrow on behalf of her Husband suffering in Honour Health and Imprisonment for a word mis-interpreted and still pursued in the Castle-Chamber and humbly praying a Command for his coming into England c. His Majesties Reference to my Lord of Strafford Iuly 18. 1636. His Majesty is pleased That on such a Submission as the Lord Deputy shall approve of he shall have his Liberty to come into England wherein the Lord Deputy is to take notice and to give Order therein accordingly Mr. Anslowe being asked whether this was brought to the Deputy by the Lady Mountnorris and whether he did not reject it He Answered That he was by when my Lady Mountnorris presented the Petition she was humbly on her Knees to desire my Lord of Strafford to receive it And he refused absolutely to receive it from her They then produced the Order in a Cross Suit in t Robert Parkhurst Plaintiff and the Lord Baltinglasse al. Defendants Et e contra The Order was read whereby certain Lands for 3000 l. paid at several times to the Viscount and 300 l. more to be paid afterwards were setled with Sir Robert Parkhurst William Brettergh Sworn was Interrogated touching my Lord Baltinglasse his Possession of the said Lands and his dispossessing thereof He Answered That he was Sollicitor for prosecuting of this Cause and made Defence of it in behalf of my Lord of Baltinglasse being then in England But at the time of the Decree his Lordship was come over That his Lordship never made Answer to it but when the Cause came to hearing my Lord of Strafford ordered the Possession of the Land against my Lord Baltinglasse and the Possession before was in one Grimble who was Tenant And that he could speak many other things concerning the carriage of it Mr. Glyn desired the Witness might be examined touching my Lord of Straffords purchase of those Lands and offered the Articles whereby my Lord of Strafford leased the Land for 28 years and at 666 l. per annum My Lord of Strafford confest thereupon that he had it but it was in Trust for a Noble Person The Manager observed That whether it was for a Friend or himself it is equal for a man will do a courtesie for his Friend as soon as for himself And so he concluded his Reply hoping that their Lordships were satisfied that he hath introduced an Innovation and being so that he hath exercised a Tyrannical Power over the Estates of His Majesties Subjects To such parts thereof as was new matter my Lord of Strafford replied in substance as followeth
busie and could not attend it That they desired Hibbots might be examined and they would be bound by his Oath and his Lordship granted a Warrant for it and Mr. Hibbots was almost examined for on a Council-day the Order was given to the Deponent But that very Afternoon my Lord-Deputy came to the Council-Board and as soon as he was sate spake to this effect Here is a business concerning my Lady Hibbots prosecuted with a great deal of Violence that ever I knew and an Order procured for the Examination of the Plaintiff but if any such Order be or Examination taken I will have it damned and this is as much as he can speak Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not threaten my Lady Hibbots with Imprisonment till she performed the Order He Answered That on the first of Ianuary after the Decree my Lord-Deputy sent to the Lady Hibbots house to require her and him the Deponent to attend him which they did accordingly and were called into his Chamber where was Mr. Sambridge of Council with Mr. Hibbots a Sister of the Deponents he the Deponent and some others That my Lord-Deputy asked them Why they would not perfect the Re-assurance according to the Order to which the Deponent offered some Exceptions drawn up by the Council alledging that they could not possibly perform the words of the Order and that they might perform them as near as might be they shewed a course that might be observed but my Lord-Deputy said He would not be cavil'd withall he would have the Order of the Board obeyed and since they juggle thus his Lordship said He would have the Orders drawn up and tendered and that if they will not perform them he will commit them to the Castle where they shall lie a month at that months end he will send for them to the Council-Board and tender them again and if they would not perform them he will Fine them 500 l. and another months Imprisonment and then tender them again and if they will not perform then he will Fine them 1000 l. and another months Imprisonment and so from time to time till they had performed the Orders of the Board Being asked Whether these Lands were not purchased in the Name of Sir Robert Meredith and others and to whose use He Answered That he hath the Deeds of the Land himself and what the Dates are he doth not remember But he knows the Lands were purchased in the Name of Sir Robert Meredith and others but he cannot speak to whose use but from Sir Robert Meredith's own mouth for when he the Deponent paid 7000 l. to him he the Deponent was telling him the great advantage he made by this Bargain In truth saith Sir Robert the advantage is nothing to me I receive it with one hand and carry to the Castle with the other That the beginning of December last Sir Robert sent for this Deponent and told him He heard he was coming over to complain of such a matter but desired him the Deponent not to trouble him for he protested seriously he had nothing to do with the business his Name was only used as Sir Philip Persivals and Sir Robert Loftus it was meerly to my Lord Lieutenants use The Manager observed That when their Lordships have heard this they will not wonder at the next Witness they shall produce that a Supream Judge should perswade to continue a Suit which he would have withdrawn and that notwithstanding the major part of the Board was against the Petitioner yet the Order was drawn for the Petitioner Mr. Hoy being asked to the matter of the Vote He said He was withdrawn when they gave their Vote but a noble Member of the Board came to his Mother to Supper and named to him the Deponent every man that Voted for and against her that he writ down their Names at that time and there were twelve Votes for her and nine against her that he the Deponent was afterwards informed by another then at Board that the major part of the Board went for his Mother Thomas Hibbots was sworn and being asked Whether there was not a Petition preferred to the Lord-Lieutenant there for breaking off the Bargain between himself and the Lady Hibbots and answered before he knew of it He Answered having the Questions dictated by the Clerk being an old deaf man That he caused a Petition to be drawn but not this that this Petition he knew nothing at all of that he wished a Petition to be drawn by Mr. Sambridge but it was only that he might have his money and go into his Country Being asked Whether after the Petition drawn and answered he did go to Sir William Parsons and desired to be quit of the Suit and that he went thereupon to Sir George Ratcliffe and what passed He Answered He sent to Sir William Parsons and he sent him to Sir George Ratcliffe and Sir George Ratcliffe said He should not be dismissed from the Board Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not send for him and tell him 500 l. more in his purse would do him no harm He Answered It is true my Lord wished him to go on with his Suit at the Board and that no man in Ireland should do him wrong and it would do him no harm to carry over 500 l. more Being asked What Sir Robert Meredith said to him He Answered That he would bring all the Writings to him the Deponent Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's Motion what Fees he laid out He Answered 40 l. to Mr. Sambridge and the Manager observed he was preferred presently after the Bargain was executed Being asked What words were used to the Lady Hibbots He Answered That my Lord-Deputy asked Will you not perform the Order If not by such a day I will send you to the Castle and there you shall lie a month and at the months end you shall be brought to the Board and have 500 l. laid on your head and at another months end 1000 l. more Fine and you shall go back to the place again and after that a third months Imprisonment and your Fine increased your Estate I know is very great and if it were ten times bigger than it is I will make it crack To prove that the major part of the Board was against the Plaintiff The Lord Mountnorris was asked Whether he was present at the Council-Table at that time when this Cause was agitated and which way the major part of the Votes went at that time He Answered He was there present and the major Vote went for the Lady and there were 12 or 11 he cannot possibly say which though he took it then perfectly into memory on one side and nine on the other side The Earl of Corke asked to the same purpose He first made an humble Suit to their Lordships that he might not be produced as a Witness against the Prisoner His Reason is That when he hath delivered
a true Testimony my Lord of Strafford presently pursues him and lays Imputations and scorns upon him and therefore humbly prayed to be spared else that he might have liberty to justifie himself Whence the Manager observed What it is to fall on Witnesses persons extravagantly when they produce them and therefore desired my Lord of Strafford might forbear it being a great disheartening to Witnesses My Lord of Corke added That my Lord of Strafford accused him to have a Pardon whereas he knows he hath none That he is an honest man and wishes my Lord of Strafford could leave the Kingdom with as much Reputation as himself had left it And for the matter demanded his Lordship said He was at the hearing of the Cause and Voted against the Plaintiff but whether the major part Voted against him or no he knows not Being asked What words my Lord of Strafford said about making a party in that Cause He Answered That he thinks he spake these words He did not think there would have been a party against him for if he had he would not have brought it to that Table for the Petition was preferred to himself Sir Adam Lofius being asked What Sir Robert Meredith told him of his part in the Bargain He Answered That he heard him say He had no Title or Interest in it but only his name used in trust but for whom he did not declare and that was all he said to him The Manager added That they have another Witness to prove that of the majority of the Vote my Lord of Ely but he is sick And so the Manager summed up the Evidence and observed it to be something that my Lord of Strafford should pitch upon the very sum of 500 l. that Mr. Hibbots had by way of increase That the Order was made with an examination of Witnesses on pretence of Fraud where the Lady denied it on Oath and that though it was so great a fraud in the Lady to procure a Reversion for 2500 l. which was sold for 3000 l. and afterwards re-sold to the Lady for 7000 l. and so concluded that it is an Arbitrary Government drawn into my Lord of Strafford's own breast and the Inheritance of a great Estate taken from the King 's Subject without Rule of Law there being a Fine levied but being not retorned as the Commissioners are bound to retorn it he made an Order it should not be retorned and a Lady threatened with doubling and trebling the Fine and one of the Feoffees Sir Robert Meredith confesses it was for my Lord of Strafford And to prove that Sir Philip Persival acknowledged so much Mr. Fitzgarret was Interrogated What Sir Philip Persival said who thereupon answered That Sir Philip had often told him the Purchase was to the use of my Lord-Deputy now Earl of Strafford That he hath had occasion of Conference with him about the Estate and hath sometimes discoursed with him concerning the Estate wherein his name was used That he the Deponent might understand how far it concerned him telling him that the Estate would one day be questioned And Sir Philip protested he never knew of this business till his name was put into it and he came to Seal the Writings and that it was to the use of my Lord-Deputy Some Questions arising about the number of Hands to the Order being in all 14. The Manager observed That more have subscribed than those that gave their Vote being a Cause introduced by my Lord of Strafford That all subscribed the Orders as well those against them as those for them and Appealed therein to my Lord of Cork The Course being when an Order is made to bring it to the Table another day and take all the Hands of them present and he added That their Lordships that are Counsellors know that Course to be used here My Lord of Corke being asked to that Point Answered That he knows nothing of it The Lord Primate of Ireland his Examination was offered and was admitted accordingly to be read being taken 30. March 1641. To the fourth Inter. That when the Major part of the Council-Board go one way and the Minor part another way when the Order is drawn up the Minor part Signs it as well as the Major The Lord-Deputy alledging it to be the practise of the Council of England and he himself had done it but before my Lord of Strafford's coming he never knew it to be so Lord Renula being asked to the same Point Answered That he doth not remember that Order to be of force there till of late years and that my Lord of Strafford hath declared to them that it is the practise of England and when the Major part doth subscribe though others be of different Opinions they are involved in it and must subscribe The Lord Savil desired he might be asked Whether he ever knew that when the Major part did Vote against an Order they did subscribe it The Manager answered That that 's their grief and though there be no such Course yet if it concern my Lord of Strafford he will make it a course Lord Renula being asked Whether he were present at the Council-Table when this Vote was given and what he heard concerning the Vote He Answered That he was not there and he heard very little of it that the most he heard of it was since the coming of this Gentleman Mr. Hoy into England and that to his best remembrance he heard Sir William Parsons now Lord Chief Justice say He was informed the Major Vote went against Sir Robert Meredith And so the Manager concluded the Charge as to the Eighth Article saying That here is a Proceeding for a Free-hold contrary to the Fundamental Laws of the Kingdom contrary to the Instructions in the manner and measure as their Lordships had heard My Lord of Strafford after some time given for the re-collecting of his Notes began his Reply in substance as followeth I will with your Lordships noble permission justifie my self against the Charge of High-Treason exhibited against me Having been blamed by the Gentlemen at the Bar for going to matters not pertinent I shall henceforth keep my self to that within the Charge trusting that the things wherewith I am not Charged shall not dwell with your Lordships to my prejudice but that your Lordships will in your Nobleness and Justice reserve to your selves till in its proper place and kind I shall Answer thereunto conceiving that I am to Answer only to Treason not to Misdemeanor The Charge opened is a Decree given by the Deputy and Council of Ireland to the subversion of the Fundamental Laws and to the bringing in of an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government Whether it be so or no or whether by any manner of Construction it can be brought as an Argument to convince me of High-Treason I conceive I am to Answer Whether the Decree be in it self just or unjust is not the question but
Decree and he conceives the major part of the Table did so too he is very confident of it and he doth the rather believe it because he never knew the contrary practise at that Board in any Case besides he knows the Clerk of the Council is a very faithful and careful Servant being a sworn Officer and it is the duty of his Place to draw up Orders according to the major part of the Voices and that no member of the Board took Exception at the signing of this Order that he knows For the matter of Imprisoning the Lady my Lord of Strafford offered That he hopes it 's no great offence for the Deputy of Ireland to say as much to a Subject that 's bound to perform the Order of the Board and doth not I ought not under favour favour le ts in that Case for if Obedience be not had it is to no purpose Orders should be made For the words concerning Fining of her I offer to your Lordships Confideration that one that gives Testimony thereof is Mr. Hoy who is a party interessed and to whom the benefit will accrue of whatsoever shall be recovered and that your Lordships may remember what a ready story he told and wronged his memory to desire to speak out of his Notes for I never heard one speak more readily and conceive he is not in this particular so intire a Witness to convince me That the other Witness is Mr. Hybbots himself a weak old man that hath not Judgment sufficient but says forward and backward and may be taken any way Therefore his Testimony is not so strong and binding That suppose I had said the words they cannot make a Treason Fining in cases of Contempts being usual in Chancery here to enforce men to conform to Decrees However I stand not charged with it and when it comes in its proper place and time I trust I shall make a fair and just Answer in it The last thing in the Charge is the conveying of the Lands to Sir Robert Meredith and others to my use which I deny in my Answer and under favour deny it still For the Witnesses offered I except against Mr. Hoy as I must under favour as often as I mention it That the words spoken by Sir Robert Meredith is only his saying and offered here as a Report and when Sir Robert speaks for himself I believe he will say another thing That the Testimony of Mr. Fitzgarrett is but what Sir Philip Percival said and when Sir Philip comes to be examined himself I trust Your Lordships will find it otherwise I having never spoke to Sir Philip in all my life touching the business When my Lady Hybbotts complains of the Injustice of the Decree before Your Lordships I hope I shall clear it in its proper place but in the mean time it is no part of my Charge and I dare say they would not offer such a thing in Charge to my Lord Keeper or my Lord Chief Justice or if they should offer it they know they should have a rebuke for Lawyers must keep within the limits of the Charge and therefore in this particular I may reserve my self without prejudice in Your Lordships Opinions till it comes to its proper place where I hope I shall justifie my Carriage to be Honest and Faithful according to the Trust reposed in me His Lordship having finished his Defence the Manager began his Reply thereunto in substance as followeth That he shall not need to labour much in making a Replication little being answered to the Charge which he recited and opened That his Lordships Proceedings have in this matter been contrary to Law they must rest on their Lordships memory the Act of Parliament cited before the Instructions and the Proclamation the Exercise of a Jurisdiction on the Estate of a Lady without the least colour of Jurisdiction whereas if there had been any it would have been heard of That his Lordship answers nothing to his sending for the party Petitioning bidding him go on with the Suit and Prophesying that he might have 500 l. more That perhaps it is not material whether the Order were just or unjust and my Lord of Strafford will answer only to the Jurisdiction But we observe that yesterday he made a great flourish to the justness of a Decree let the Jurisdiction be what it will and when he cannot justifie that then he declines it That my Lord his Pulse is still beating that this is no Treason yet it is an Article to prove and conduce to the General Charge of subverting the Laws and though he pretends that these Circumstances of purchasing the Lands to his own use and speaking to the party to proceed and his Threats are not to the purpose yet under favour these and his saying when he perceived a great part to Vote against him though not the major part as he says that he could have kept it in his own hands do come home to the point That he hath exercised an Arbitrary Power specially when it is for his own benefit His pretence that this Cause was heard before the Lords of the Council and therein differs from that of my Lord Mountnorris is no answer at all for the Lords of the Council have nothing to do in matters of Freehold or Inheritance when it concerns not Plantation or the Church or is specially recommended That they concur with my Lord Primates Examination that the Clerk of the Council should draw up Orders according to the major part of the Votes but what he hath done in this case they know not and how far a Deputy might prevail with the Clerk of the Council they submit And there is an express proof of one of the Counsellors that there was 11. or 12. against the Order and nine for it And whereas it is said he is but a single Witness my Lord of Corke says though he remembers not which way the major voice went yet he remembers very well my Lord Deputy exprest those words concerning the making of a Party which shews that something was done that did not agree with his will And another Witness says that Sir William Parsons told him that the major Vote was against the Order And whereas my Lord Strafford pretends that the Privy-Counsellor that told Mr. Hoy there were more Voices for his Mother than against her must be my Lord Mountnorris That is denied and we desire Mr. Hoy may in that point explain himself He hath called Sir Philip Maynwaring and others that would have testified the truth to his advantage but not one of them expresses any thing to their knowledge but as they believe it because by the Duty of his place the Clerk of the Council ought to have drawn it up according to the Votes The Threats to Imprison and Fine the Lady and the kind of Threats are proved by two Witnesses with this addition by one That he would crack her Estate which shew a great fervency in my Lord
my Lord of Strafford were a Partner But he the Examinant had no such great cause to desire it for he was not in three years but his Son was put out again when it came to matter of profit they were gone To this my Lord of Strafford did by the way Answer in substance That His Majesty gave Consideration for it and had the benefit himself And so I hope I have cleared how I came into the Bargain and that I cannot be Charged with procuring the Book of Rates it being Printed 10. March and my Lease began 21 April after and that the Right being in the Crown your Lordships will not conclude it till you have heard it for the King it being his loss in â… parts which was intirely His. And whereas I am Charged with raising the Book of Rates though done before my time yet I was taught here in England that they might have been raised to a much higher Rate than they were and to that purpose there came a Letter from His Majesty whereby in 1637. a Proposition was made of raising the Rates the Book being conceived not to be so high as it ought to be His Majesties Letter was read Mr. Slingsby affirming it to be a true Copy and that he saw it compared with the Original Imparting That His Majesty finding the Impositions set on Merchandize of all Ports to be well accepted and to have ready and free passage had Resolved That such Impositions be laid in Ireland as be fit for that Kingdom and to that end had caused a Book to be drawn with fit Considerations of the difference of Trade in both Kingdoms which was sent to my Lord of Strafford to advise of the Particulars who if he found that any may bear a greater proportion he may add what he will if he find any over-rated he may deliver his Reasons to be considered and Regulated by His Majesties Committee here Dated the 10th of Iuly 1633. My Lord of Strafford observed That at the date of this Letter he had an Interest in ¼ part of the Farm and desired that my Lord Dillon might be asked how my Lord of Strafford carried himself in it Lord Robert Dillon being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not join with the Council to disswade it He Answered That he was at the Board when the Original of this Letter was read as he takes it for there was brought with it a Book of Rates that he remembers not the particular words of my Lord of Strafford but he is sure by the whole Board the entertainment of those Rates was dis-advised And it was Resolved a Letter should be written to dis-advise it but he remembers not when the Letter was written Whence it may be observed That I was not very tender of my own profit which laid to the other I hope will clear me of this Article wherein there is nothing of Treason and nothing can be imputed to me unless that the Kingdom of Ireland is under the King 's blessed Government an increased and growing Kingdom and the Trade enlarged to such a proportion as makes the Customs of far more value than they were heretofore should be turned on me as a Crime And as for Treason your Lordships see no Complexion towards so foul a Crime and for all things that may reflect on me as Misdemeanors in due time and place I trust I shall clear my self from that as well as I do from this Charge of High-Treason Mr. Maynard Replyed thereunto in substance as followeth That whereas my Lord of Strafford says That to prove the matter of profit to himself of loss to His Majesty is impertinent They Charge that what he did was for his own Lucre. He Answers That what he did was for His Majesties Profit Therefore whether it be for his Lucre or not is in issue and that they have proved and that which he puts in issue is not to the purpose nor proved Whereas he says This Article is not Treason yet look to the whole body of the Charge his taking away the Property of the Subjects his inducing this by subtilty by force or advice to bring it to pass if these be proved their Lordships will be of Opinion with the House of Commons That it is a high and a great Treason Therefore let him not say this or that piece is not Treason let him Answer it if he can That the subverting of the Fundamental Laws be not great a Treason My Lord takes advantage that the Patent to the Dutchess concerns not him for it is granted in March and his 21. April following but if the Times be observed it will answer it self for the 10th of March 7 Car. the Rates are raised 21. March my Lord of Carlisles Patent is surrendred 24. March the Dutchess Patent dated and 21. April 8 Car. some 30 days after my Lord of Strafford's Lease is passed If this had been intended for the Dutchess she would have kept it but she keeps it not to pay a days Rent or receive any profit But this will intrench on my Lord of Strafford's Answer on the ingenuity of which he stands so much for he says There were Propositions to raise these Rates and he was acquainted and intreated to go on and thereupon he enters into the Bargain We desire your Lordships to mark the time that if there were these Propositions to raise the Rates and this Lease must be drawn on the raising of the Rates then was he interressed in the raising of the Rates before he was interressed in the Lease And then there is the Execution of a Design carried in several hands which tend to one purpose for he enters into it the seventh year and his own Lease is the eighth and therefore it was on his own Design and Counsel and for his own Profit My Lord instanceth That the Article lays the Book of Rates to be raised 9. whereas this was done 7. Mr. Maynard observed Time is not material had they charged him to have made a Book of Rates such a Date it had been something But if an Offence be laid in one year and it appears to be done in another year he must be punished for that now which he did at any time To the Tunnage and Poundage being the Inheritance of the King it is so in Ireland but the Point is the Oppression of the Subject when he makes that three which is but one and so instead of giving the King his due to extort from the Subject what he ought not to pay If he says Proofs could not be had to prove a greater value of the Commodities he had time to produce a Witness out of all Ireland The Commons have produced them that speak of the highest value and there is great difference between three four five the highest is six and twenty What occasioned Williams to Relinquish the Bargain is not material But in what Case is the Subject of Ireland that when a
Tobacco and he hath known in his little poor experience many Monopolies overthrown by sentence of the Commons House but under favour never heard it to be judged Treason before this time For the Port of Kinsale it is the Port wherein in a manner all the Tobacco of the Kingdom comes to be Landed and thence transported again and that the value of the Tobacco is worth 100000 l. is but an estimate and no Consideration herein had of the price the Customes the Losses and Charges and the Remonstrance of the Commons is only that they conceive it to be so And this is all the Testimony to the value And so his Lordship concluded his Defence And Mr. Maynard made Reply in substance as followeth And First he observed That whereas it was said the Orders of the Commons House were Rigid indeed Tyrannical when they be heard there 's no such thing in them they appoint two of my Lord of Strafford's Agents at least one of them is his Agent and the other Patentee to account the Money That they shall only bring in a List without taking away the Books or any thing conducing to his defence That he knows not for what purpose my Lord of Strafford objected the Lease 10 Iac. for that concerned imposition on Tobacco but the question here is That none must sell Tobacco without Licence of the Patentee Here my Lord of Strafford interposed That any man that will pay Imposition and Custome may bring in what Tobacco he pleases But Mr. Maynard answers That that 's more than the Tobacco is worth and if the Patentees may sell without Imposition and Custome at their own Prizes they are 2 s. a pound before any man Mr. Maynard proceeded to answer That of the Commons petitioning for regulating the King's Debts and observed That it was only that the Incumbrances on the Kings Revenue might be taken off and this is no ground that the Subject must not have his Goods because the Kings debts must be regulated nor a good service done His Majesty that when the Commons shall desire something may be done therefore this is an Argument and Justification that any thing may be done this being to stop the issues of the affections of the Kings people when what they propound shall be so far beyond their Intention besides some have been whipp'd Pillory'd and Was that the Intention of the Commons House to put such Severity pardon him if he say Cruelty upon the Subject That the Letter from His Majesty was on a Misinformation for it sayes His Majesty is given to understand the Preemption of Tobacco may be rightfully assumed Yet the known Law in England or Ireland being that any preemption may be put upon a Commodity to take it from the Subject so they have the more to answer for it that did inform it and if the Question be Who Surely out of my Lord of Straffords own Defence he himself appears to be the Man for he makes the Proposition of the Commons-House the ground of his Proceeding So it was an Arrow out of his Quiver Besides though it was to be assumed to His Majesty yet the Question is Who had the Profit the King had little in proportion to what hath been raised For the Proclamation March 13 Car. Whereas my Lord makes that in England the Example of that Issued in Ireland if that which follows may be an Example to that which goes before it may be true But the Proclamation in Ireland was in Ianuary and the Proclamation here is in March the same year Therefore that 's a great Mistake Besides if there be a Monopoly set up in England Shall that Justifie another A Crime being aggravated when it becomes an Example for when they go to the other one strengthens another and there is more Mischief to the Common-wealth And in Parliament they must be bold to say when Ill Ministers shall take on them to Vouch the Sacred Names of His Majesty to Justifie a Monopoly His Majesty is Innocent but they liable to great Punishment and the more Punishable because they Justifie it under such a Colour As to the Advertisement of it hither by the Deputy and Counsel Shall their Advertisement of what was done Unjustly make it Just Besides my Lord of Strafford takes on him the Encouragement of the Contracts for there is one Proposition that in case we remove they may have liberty to surrender their Patents which is a strong relish of my Lord of Strafford For else Why should they desire no longer to continue the Grant then they may have his Protection to Whip and Pillory Men And the truth is he is the sole Man that hath the Benefit of it and the rest are his Servants And they will desire M r Little may be examined to that point by and by He added That his Lordship had a Weak Defence else he would not have fled to such a Buckler as an Act of Parliament certified from Sir Christopher Wainsford the Deputy of Ireland that he thinks it fit to pass who was one of them that Acted at the Councel-Table so far as his part came but it was never propounded to either of the Houses And where my Lord sayes A Proclamation may be made till an Act of Parliament make it more lasting Mr. Maynard said Yet he hoped by no Law in England a Proclamation may take away the Goods of the Subject That there is a Right in Proclamation he will never speak against but it is no Temporary Law to raise a Monopoly And whereas he sayes Tobacco yields no where so good a Value as in Ireland that 's nothing to the Point of Buying that when the Subject may have 2 Shillings my Lord of Straffords Agents shall have it for 6 d and sell it again for 2 or 3 Shillings My Lord sayes The Contractors are out of Purse 6000 l. and 't is but said And that will not abate the Testimony For Kinsale the Witness being an understanding Man says That in that one Port there comes in 200 Tun and whereas it is said There comes none in a Manner in any other Port Why then hath my Lord Five Magazines of Tobacco at several places Nothing is offered by way of Defence And he that shall Justifie such things by the Commands he hath produced doth exceedingly Justifie our Complaint in that Point for were it not that by Misinformation the Subject is left Remediless at Law he might be holpen there but when my Lord of Strafford and other Great Officers there shall use the King's Name That 's our Trouble therefore their Profit And therefore though my Lord makes light of it it will come heavy at the last and is a great breach on the Property of the Subject Soleemption may be made of all things else Mr. Glyn desiring to add a Word observed That Two things my Lord of Strafford mainly insists on to Justifie his Actions First That the House of Commons desired the Revenue might be unfettered by taking
off the Leases in being And Urges That they intended the Lease of Tobacco among the rest which appeares not But admit it their Intention was to take off the Fetters and Ingagements from the Kings Revenue that the King might make the best of it not that others should feed on what was His and he in the mean time want Now their Lordships may observe how my Lord of Strafford executes these Intentions he gets a Lease of it but doth not he retain the Kings Revenue being worth 100000 l. a year to himself for 5000 l. if the Witness speaks truth So it falls on his own head and is a plain deceiving of the King There is a Letter which Answer is made to but if their Lordships recall to Memory what the Letter was it was as just as could be to take a course for Preemption of Tobacco no they afterwards enter into Consultation and Advice what should be done And What do they They lay a Restraint that no Man should Import unless they would Sell unto my Lord of Strafford at his Rate and so it is executed to Tyranny over the People There is another thing my Lord Insists on Is the making of a good Bargain Treason But out of the making of this Bargain if their Lordships well consider it They shall find a double Treason to result First Exercising an Arbitrary Power by laying what Tax he will for he may lay 19 Shillings as well as 6d. Secondly His depriving the King of His Estate under Colour of Advancing His Revenue which is to deprive the King of His Government For if one takes away my meanes of Livelihood and defence against an Enemy it is a killing of me round about though it were a more immediate killing of me to run me through If he take away the Kings Livelihood and Just Revenue whereby He is enabled to Govern and Protect His People Is it not to take away the Government out of His Hand And one word Mr. Glyn desired to add from something that fell from my Lord of Strafford by way of Prevention concerning the Parliament of Ireland We live under one King and one Government and no doubt ought to be sensible of one anothers Honour the Parliament of England and the Parliament of Ireland Here is an Article against my Lord of Strafford for endeavouring to put Him out of Opinion of Parliaments In this Assembly where the Commons and Peers are Assembled he hath endeavoured to blast a Parliament In the next Kingdom he talkes of a Tyrannical Government an Arbitrary Power these were his Words in effect Is not this as much as in his Power to cast a Blast and Ill Affection in any Man that hears him on the Parliament of Ireland And he that will do it in the presence of a Parliament in England What will he do of a Parliament of this Kingdom in the absence of a Parliament and when there is no Parliament Sitting And so Concluded the Twelfth Article and the House was ADJOURNED THE Thirteenth Article The Charge 13. THat Flax being one of the principal and Native Commodities of that Kingdom of Ireland the said Earl having gotten Great Quantities thereof into his Hands and growing on his own Lands did Issue out several Proclamations viz. The one Dated the One and Thirtieth of May in the Twelfth of His Majesties Reign and the other Dated the One and Thirtieth day of January in the same Year Thereby prescribing and enjoyning the Working of Flax into Yarn and Thread and the ordering of the same in such wayes wherein the Natives of that Kingdom were unpractised and unskilful Which Proclamations so Issued were by his Commands and Warrants to His Majesties Justices of Peace and other Officers and by other Rigorous Meanes put in Execution and the Flax Wrought or ordered in other manner then as the said Proclamation prescribed was Seized and employed to the Use of him and his Agents and thereby the said Earl endeavoured to gain and did gain in effect the Sole Sale of that Native Commodity April 1. 1641. THe Thirteenth Article was this Day Read and Opened by Mr. Maynard concerning Flax one of the Native Commodities of the Kingdom which my Lord of Strafford by several Proclamations enjoyned the Natives to work into Yarn in a way wherein they were Unskilful and Prohibited the Buying of any Yarn of this Flax otherwise made and upon this occasion much was Seized So that by the Complaints of the Commons it appears that Thousands were Undone their Goods being taken away and Converted to my Lords Use. For Proofe The Second Proclamation of Deputy and Counsel was Read wherein the first is Recited Importing in effect That by reason of the multiplicity of ends in Yarne there is much confusion That for remedy a Proclamation Issued the last of May last which hath taken good effect and in regard some ill-disposed persons have nevertheless contracted for Yarn at cheap and low rates though not made according to the first Proclamation That therefore the said first Proclamation be strictly observed and that none presume to buy any Linnen-Yarn but shall be Reeled on one end and no more c. That if any person shall after the first of April next offend contrary to this Proclamation he shall be proceeded against at the Council Board or Castle Chamber Some are appointed to enquire of Contempts to whom Recompence is promised Given c. 31 Ian. 12 Car. 1638. The Natives not being able to apply themselves to his Commands a Warrant went to Seize the Goods made or brought contrary to this Proclamation so that People forbore the Markets durst not sell none openly and so could not pay their Rents The Warrant was produced under my Lord of Straffords Hand and Seale which his Lordship affirmed being in effect By the Lord Deputy Wentworth TO all Iustices of the Peace c. Whereas Benjamin Croky is Authorized to inform himself and advertise the State of Abuses and Contempts committed and done against a Proclamation made for Reformation of the Abuse of Spinsters of Linnen Yarn and to stay all Yarn made contrary c. till Our pleasure be further known And whereas he now informs us he cannot discharge that Trust in regard diverse persons do privily in their own Houses and not in open Markets make Sale of their Yarn and though he hath desired Assistance of Publick Magistrates yet they have failed to afford him the same in that measure that is fitting In consideration whereof our pleasure is and we do hereby require and authorize you to be aiding and assisting to Benjamin Croky and his Deputy To seize on and take all Yarn which shall be found to be made contrary to the said Proclamation and to cause diligent search to be made in all Houses c. where you shall be informed any such Remaines lie hidden and the same to seize and bring to Dublin to be disposed of as We shall direct the Party delivering it taking Crokies hand
they had reproofs from my Lords servants And if the point were only to produce witness that the Flax or Yarn came to my Lords own hands it might be despaired of but when the profit comes to his hands by his Agents and those set on work by him it is no excuse to say it was done by others Mr. Maynard said further he wondred my Lord should say there was no proof when there were two express witnesses my Lord said he heard but of a Cart-load Mr. Maynard answered he heard not the word but he heard of about a Cart-load and could that starve 1000 men yet if a Cart-load be not sufficient to starve 1000 men if there be more than 1000 starved then more than a Cart-load was seized At that time there came in but a Cart-load but there came in by good quantities when it came in by Cart-loads He says the Remonstrance is but a charge but it comes in on good proof and it is concerning a whole Province and as it is likely they were there that knew of the miseries that befell the Provinces Mr. Maynard further observed that heretofore in the matter of Tobacco he told your Lordships he had a command it was expected he would have produced something to the purpose now but God be thanked he hath not he says Tobacco is a superfluous thing but these things that are for clothing are not superfluous and being he hath gone into this excess Mr. Maynard concluded with this that he must leave him to their Lordships Judgements for he had made an excuse tho that he said did not reach an excuse And whereas my Lord said the Cart-load of Yarn was taken in Conaught not in Ulster Mr. Glin added that one thing was observable from my Lord of Strafford's own evidence which seemed to convince him of what he denied He pretends this was for advancement of Trade not for his own use and that there was but 1700 l. worth made in a year but himself casting his Accompts says he lost 3000 l. so he owns it by the loss but not by the benefit which convinces the principal point himself denies Here my Lord of Strafford desired leave to explain himself that when he said he lost 3000 l. and 1700 l. a year made of it he said he made Cloth there 6 or 7 years as hetook it and the Cloth it self not the Yarn was worth 1700 l. for the Yarn was not worth 400 l. and in that time he might very well loose 3000 l. And so the Thirteenth Article was concluded and the Fourteenth Article being for the present laid aside the Committee proceeded to the Fifteenth Article THE Fifteenth Article The Charge 15. THat the said Earl of Strafford traiterously and wickedly devised and contrived by force of Arms and in a warlike manner to subdue the Subjects of the said Realm of Ireland and to bring them under his tyrannical Power and Will and in pursuance of these wicked and traiterous purposes aforesaid The said Earl of Strafford in the eighth year of His Majesties Reign did by his own authority without any Warrant or colour of Law Car and Impose great sums of Money upon the Towns of Baltemore Bandenbridge Talo'we and divers other Towns and places in the said Realm of Ireland and did cause the same to be levied upon the Inhabitants of those Towns by Troops of Soldiers with Force and Arms in a warlike manner And on the Ninth day of March in the Twelfth year of His now Majesties Reign traiterously did give authority unto Robert Savill a Serjeant at Arms and to the Captains of the Companies of Soldiers in several parts of that Realm to send such numbers of Soldiers to lye on the Lands and Houses of such as would not conform to his Orders until they should render Obedience to his said Orders and Warrants and after such submission and not before the said Soldiers to return to their Garrisons And did also issue the like Warrants unto divers others which Warrants were in Warlike manner with Force and Arms put in execution accordingly and by such Warlike means did force divers of His Majesties Subjects of that Realm to submit themselves to his unlawful commands And in the said Twelfth year of His Majesties Reign the said Earl of Strafford did traiterously cause certain Troops of Horse and Foot Armed in Warlike manner and in Warlike array with Force and Arms to expell Richard Butler from the possession of the Mannor of Castle-Cumber in the Territory of Idough in the said Realm of Ireland and did likewise and in like Warlike manner expell divers of His Majesties Subjects from their Houses Families and Possessions as namely Edward O Brenman Owen Oberman John Brenman Patrick Oberman Sir Cyprian Horsefield and divers others to the number of about an hundred Families and took and imprisoned them and their Wives and carried them prisoners to Dublin and there detained until they did yield up surrender or release their respective Estates or Rights And the said Earl in like manner hath during his Government of the said Kingdom of Ireland subdued divers others of His Majesties Subjects there to his Will and thereby and by the means aforesaid hath levied War within the said Realm against His Majesty and His Liege People of that Kingdom Mr. Palmer proceeded to open the 15th Article which concurred with the precedent in point of Evidence to make good the Charge of the Commons against the Lord of Strafford in point of High-Treason The main Accusation being his labouring to subvert the established Laws and Government and instead of them to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Power THAT this laid in the 15 th Article doth more than prove this Charge charging him with Acts of Force and Hostility which are not only an Evidence to prove his design but are actual subversions of Law and introducing of an arbitrary Power as their Lordships will perceive when they shall hear how he executed his Commands by Soldiers And as this contributes with the rest in proof of the main Charge so he humbly offered that this Article singly and individually of it self contained a Charge of High Treason and that the nature of the offence would appear in the proofs of the Article The Article is first general That he did traiterously devise to subdue the Subjects of the Realm of Ireland by force of Arms in a Warlike manner under his tyrannical Power and Will In pursuance of these things that are charged in the Article the first they said they would pass over at that time and my Lord of Strafford also had notice that they intended to wave it for the present The Second is that 9 March 12. of the King he gave a Warrant to one Savill a Sergeant at Arms and to Captains and Soldiers of that Kingdom to Quarter on the Houses and Lands of such as would not conform to render Obedience to his Orders such number of Soldiers as the Sergeant at Arms
late he hath heard of more Being Asked Whether another had not a Warrant to the same purpose and How many he had laid He Answered He never saw the VVarrant but he hath heard he hath by Vertue of such a VVarrant laid Soldiers but he knows not how many he not looking to the actions of others but his own and he wished it had all layen in his power still and he had done well enough Patrick Gough being Asked Whether he had seen such a Warrant under the Hand and Seal of my Lord of Strafford whereby the Soldiers were Assessed and under whose Hand He Answered He had seen a VVarrant Signed by my Lord VVentworth on the top and a Seal to it directed to the Sergeant Savill to the same purpose that an Affidavit made to him of the absence of the Contemptor of the first VVarrant he might lay Soldiers on the Land And that he made search for it and saw it in Secretary Littles Book but it was long agoe Being Asked What he knew of the Execution of this VVarrant Upon whom How many and Upon what Occasion He Answered It was a constant course on a Command and Affidavit made of serving a VVarrant to the Pursivant on the Parties failing an Attachment was granted to the Sergeant and a Dormant VVarrant that on his not finding him he might lay Soldiers on the Land This was constantly practised during my Lords Government as he obsered And particularly upon one Richard Butler in the County of Typerary last Summer And no other cause could he learn or know but not giving obedience to my Lord of Straffords Orders The Original Contempt Being Interrogated What Insolencies he had known committed by Soldiers in this Case He Answered That he had heard Soldiers were left on one Bernes Land and they took other Mens Cattel that Grazed on the Lands and killed them and burnt part of the House as he was told and broke up the Hutches where he had his Corn and sent it to the next Market-Town to buy Beer for them Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords Motion Whether in his VVarrant any Command was given to take other Mens Goods He Answered He believed no such word was exprest in the VVarrant Being Asked Whether there was not Authority to lay Soldiers and What was meant by laying of Soldiers He Answered The VVarrant Imports That on their Default or Absence the Sergeant at Armes may lay Soldiers on the Land there to lye to feed on the Contemptors Goods and live there till he surrender his Body to the Sergeant at Armes Then the Sergeant gives notice to the Soldiers that the Party is come in and they go to their Garrison Richard Welsh Sworn Being Interrogated Whether he had seen a Warrant under my Lord of Straffords Hand for laying of Soldiers He Answered That he had seen my Lord Deputies Hand Signed if it was his Hand Wentworth as he had seen it to many Orders being very well acquainted with his Hand That he had seen his Hand to such a Warrant that the Man that showed him the VVarrant was one of my Lord Deputies Troopers by name Patrick Brady who told him he was going to fetch Soldiers by direction of Sergeant Savill to lay on one Francis Dillon who was in Contempt at this Bradyes own Suite That the occasion he showed him it was That Brady was Indebted to him the Deponent and he the Deponent intending to Petition my Lord against him Brady desired him to forbear it for he had a good way to get Money and shewed him the Warrant he the Deponent saw it under my Lord Deputies Hand and Seal Being Asked What was the Suit He said The Suit was on a Paper-Petition for as he remembers 100 l. and so Dillon falling into Contempt a Warrant was issued to the Pursivant and so according to the practice the Soldiers were laid on him Being Asked What was the effect of the Warrant under my Lord Deputies Hand He Answered That the effect of the Warrant was That the Sergeant at Armes should bring upon the Delinquents such as was incontempt out of the next Garrison Soldiers with an Officer and lay them on the Delinquents Lands till he had rendered his Body Patrick Cleare Sworn was Interrogated What Execution he knew of my Lord of Straffords Warrant to lay Soldiers He Answered That he had seen no Execution done but he had a Letter sent out of the Countrey by a Gentlewomans Son and she desired him the Deponent to Petition To have Soldiers that were laid on her Land discharged it being onely for a Contempt in not Appearing That he got a Copy of the Petition her Name being Agnes White and therein she Petition'd my Lord of Strafford to have them discharged and said she was very old and would die if she submitted her self to any Sergeant at Armes The Order was That upon an Affidavit he would give other Direction The Son made Affidavit that she was 80 years old On that an Order was made requiring Sergeant Savill to take off the Soldiers and trouble her no more she paying him his Fees And he knew further That Sergeant Pigott having an Attachment against Iohn Barrow who was gone away by reason of certain Cruelties sent after him by Secretary Little who threatned to put Soldiers on him if he came not to compound with him for his Fees Being Asked How far the old woman lived from Dublin He Answered In the County of Kilkenny 40 or 50 Miles from Dublin and this was four years ago Being Interrogated What the Contempt was He Answered That the Petitioner said He was dammaged 500 l. by not performing Covenants so she was commanded to pay 500 l. or else to shew cause to the contrary She was an old woman alwayes on her Bed and did not appear not knowing what belonged to Law Affidavit being made That she appeared not nor gave satisfaction an Attachment issued to the Pursivant The Pursivant could not find her on Affidavit The Sergeant at Armes goes for her and not finding her the first or second time he layes Soldiers on her And there they remained eating and drinking three or four weeks till he got them discharged And he heard by the Sergeant at Armes that this was very usually and ordinarily done Being Asked If Pigott had such a Warrant He Answered He did not see the Warrant but Pigott himself said He would lay Soldiers on Barrow if he did not submit and pay Fees Nicholas Ardah Sworn Being required to deliver what he knew concerning laying of Soldiers in case of Paper-Petitions He Answered That he had heard of many but never saw any but one which was in the City of Dublin One Tho. Cusacke of Dublin was seized by Sergeant Savill with Corporal Hamond and some others of my Lord Lieutenants Troops for not obeying an Order within these two years and a half That he saw the Horse and the Pistols at their Sadles there were two or
Soldiers on some if they would not obey but because he threatned therefore he had such a Warrant is under favour no consequence men commonly threaten most when they have least to shew IV. Mr. Kenneday sayes directly Pigott had done what he did by direction but in express termes he sayes He never saw the Warrant Then there remained only Mr. Savill's Warrant This Warrant is not showed nor comes it in Judgment against him and though some Testimonies are given that they have seen such a Warrant for Assessing Soldiers c. yet he conceives it very hard That the Warrant should be the ground of convincing him of Treason and yet the Warrant not be shown for what the grounds are and what the Limitations may be do not appear And if there were such a Warrant it is long since it passed from him But it is not shown and therefore to convince him in modo formâ is very hard to be done for what may be in it to qualifie or what amiss no body knows But to the Proofs his Lordship observed That the Proofs are very scant This great Mighty War made on the King and his People in breach of the Statute cited is one of the Poorest Wars that ever was made in Christendome for last Summer one sayes he knew Soldiers laid on one man The Sergeant sayes He never laid above 6 sometimes 2 sometimes 3 and that this should be heightned to the making of a War against the King and his People seems to be a very great strain put upon it and more he hopes than the matter will bear That it was never complained of to him all the while he was in Ireland in respect of any manner of prejudice sustained by it That if there be such a Warrant he is glad it hath been so moderately Executed that no worse consequence hath come of it than their Lordships have heard But he shall make it appear that the Sergeant at Armes is a publick Officer and what Warrant soever he hath from him it is not in relation to him but to the execution and procuring obedience to all other the Kings Courts of Justice as well as those of the Deputies Jurisdiction and it was onely to enable him the better to secure the Kings Right And he desired that Nicolas Ardah be examined Whether he be not an Officer of the Exchequer in Ireland and whether he knows of any particular Sessing of Soldiers by the Sergeant at Armes before my Lord of Straffords Government And being Askt severally these Questions He Answered To the first That he hath some Imployment in the Exchequer and was imployed in a Commission of Church-bounds And that about the Second Year of His Majesties Reign there was one Tho. Fitzgerard High Sheriff of a County that had not perfected his Accompts and not appeared to the Pursivant The Lord Chancellor that now is desired the rest to assist him to move my Lord of Faulkland to lay Horse on him And that the Party was brought in within a short time after but whether by Soldiers he knows not but he heard there was a Warrant Mr. Savill being Asked Whether the Warrant to him granted was not agreeable to former Precedents He Answered That he never saw any other Warrant of the same Nature but he hath heard by him that was his Predecessor now a Captain of the Army that he had received a Warrant from my Lord of Faulkland to Sess Soldiers on the Land of Tho. Fitzgerard who had refused to come to pass Accompts Mr. Henry Dillon being Asked Whether he knew of any such Warrant formerly granted And what Relation the Sergeant at Armes hath to other Courts He Answered That he conceives the Sergeant at Armes is an Officer as well to the Court of Exchequer as to the Chancery on the last Process of Contempt The last Process is a Writ to the Sergeant to Attach a Man whether betwixt party and party or concerning the King and that he had spoken with Thimbleby Sergeant at Armes whether he did so in his own right or as Deputy And Asking him What he would do if the Warrant was disobey'd and he pretended he would Assess Soldiers and being a Scholar at 23 years he heard one had Soldiers sessed on him for disobedience to the Sergeant at Armes but what the particular was he doth not know Here Mr. Palmer speaking some words which my Lord of Strafford interpreted an Interruption his Lordship desired That no hasty words might be misinterpreted he being for his Life and Children and added The Gentlemen will do well not to put him out of his way but let him speak the poor few things he can for himself and then leave them to their Lordships wisdom And then proceeded So he supposed there could be no such severe construction put upon this Warrant that it should be adjudged a levying of War against the King and his People when it appeares to be the using of half a dozen sometimes two or three Soldiers to lye on refractory persons and bring them to be conformable to Justice that the Kings Law might be obeyed without any Treasonable or corrupt intention whatsoever And he hopes their Lordships will have a more favourable and compassionate consideration than to Judge him a Traytor for such a piece of business accompanied with all these circumstances But he added That some wayes he is more qualified then an ordinary person by reason he had the honor to be His Majesties Deputy and by His Commission had power to pursue Rebels and to use the Kings Army for punishing of Rebels or securing the Publick Peace of the Realm as in his discretion he should think fit and that he conceives a Warrant though there had been no President in the Case but with these accompany'd cannot be laid on him as a Crime For this he refers himself to his Commission which had been formerly read and therefore trusts this will not fall into their Lordships Judgment as a High Treason he being to govern according to the Customes of the Realm There is a Statute 10 H. 7. cap. 17. whereby it was Ordained Enacted and Estabished by Authority of that Parliament That from that time forwards there be no Peace nor War undertaken in the Land without the Deputies Licence but all such War and Peace to be made by the Lieutenants for the time being And this comes in time after the Statute of 18 H. 6. This was never complayn'd of as a fault and no ill consequence followed on it If a Man shall enter by force and wrongfully keep away possession that may be as well said to be a levying of War as this and yet a forcible Entry is familiarly punish'd in the Star-Chamber but not spoken of as a Treason As to the Statute in Ireland of 18 H. 6. cap. 3. An Act That no Lord or other shall Charge the Kings Subject c. HE Conceives he cannot be brought within compass of this Statute
from this Statute he shall stand clear abroad and this cannot be brought as to this Case to convince him of Treason And his Lordship did recall one thing in the Lord Dillons testimony which he had formerly omitted That the Assessing of Soldiers was on men being in Rebellion for any unjustifyable Act. And so his Lordship conceived there remains no more for him to do at this time but to answer that objection That this proceeding of his was Treason by 25 Edw. 3. though he had thought Treason had been like Felony in this respect That there must be a felonious intent to make Felony and so to make Treason there must be a Treasonable intent And he said God knows he had no Treasonable intent in all this for if he had a mind to have raised War against the King and his People surely he should never have done it by laying two or three Soldiers on a private man and then taking them off again And is this that levying of War against the King and his People that is meant in the Irish Statute of 25 Edw. 3 The words of which Statute his Lordship read viz. If any man levy War against the King in His Realm or adhere to His enemies c. He appeals to their Lordships desiring them to lay it to themselves and tell him whether 2 or 3 poor Soldiers sent in this manner to bring in a man that will not be lyable to the Kings Justice could by any construction be brought to be a War levied against the King and his People which said he if it be an error he knew it was no Treason for he had thought it had been for the Honor and Authority and Justice of the King and not done as an enemy to him And therefore all laid together though he must needs say Men are dark towards themselves and towards their own Cases and less able to judge than in the Case of other men in truth under favour withall Humility and submission to their Lordships better judgements he cannot believe nor fear but for any thing proved this day against him as he is clear in his heart from all Treasons and treasonable Intentions towards the King and His People so he stands clear from Treason upon this Charge not only in respect of the Irish Statute but likewise the English Statute and he shall beseech their Lordships when it comes to its time they will give his Council leave to urge these things for him who he is sure will be able to do it with far greater reason and strength than himself it being out of his profession Here his Lordship took notice that there was another part of the Charge which he desired to speak to but Mr. Palmer said That was subsequent and not yet come to To which his Lordship Answered That he should do all things without offence only so long as he doth mannerly move any thing for his clearing he hopes he may do it And so the Defence was concluded And then Mr. Palmer replyed in Substance as followeth That their Lordships have heard a very long Defence made by my Lord of Strafford and that he would not apply himself to inforce any thing by circumstances but to represent the truth and to avoid those things offered by way of Answer for most part of that may be confessed and yet avoided Whereas my Lord of Strafford hath made the greatest part of his Defence in matter of Fact from Usage their Lordships may please to consider that there can be no legal Usage contrary to an Act of Parliament made before time of memory as 25 E. 3. in England and 18 H. 6. in Ireland much less can there be Usage for committing of Treason The Usage insisted on is First for Soldiers being Assest on Septs till Rebels and Traitors not apprehendible were brought in and by Rebels his Lordship would have understood not Rebels against the King and State but petit Offenders and Felons and for that did examine Witnesses But the Witnesse says That when such had committed Felony and withdrawn themselves into Woods a Proclamation went out to call them in and if then they came not in they were esteemed Rebels and Soldiers were laid on their Septs which is not to lay Soldiers on Subjects in time of Peace when they will not conform to his private Orders The Stat. 11 Eliz. describes what the laying Soldiers on the Sept was viz. When Outlaws and Rebels lye in the Woods and will not be apprehended with the ordinary Arm of Justic then five of the best of the Sept shall be Fined but not that Soldiers shall be laid on them And this being a Statute and lately made must needs give the Rise to this laying of Soldiers on the Septs by the Council-Board instead of a Fine so this is no justification or excuse it not bringing a full Answer home to the present Case nor is this of right to be justified The next Usage was concerning the Kings Rents which Mr. Conley only extends beyond the time of my Lord of Faulkland he speaks of it in the time of my Lord Grandison and Chichester yet it was no positive Testimony and he was an old man and his Evidence uncertain for those times Besides there was no account given of the certain reason whether by a legal Process or no For there might be due Process awarded and a Writ of Assistance to carry the power of the Countrey and so the thing be done by legal authority and therefore since it cannot be applyed to any rule it must be intended to be an illegal power if at all The rest were all for Rents in the time of my Lord of Faulkland The instructions were produced by my Lord of Strafford himself in time 1628. which was before my Lord of Faulkland went out of that Government And by these instructions there is an Agreement and it is taken to be for the benefit of the people that the Kings Rents should be levied by Soldiers so that for all the time of my Lord of Faulkland and the Justices since it was within the compass of the Instructions and reduced to the consent of the people and the words of the Statute are No Soldiers shall be Assest without consent but this remains charged to be by force and against consent That concerning the Contribution-money in which another Usage is alledged is set forth to be an agreement of the people That because it might not come into the Exchequer to be made a Precedent it should not be levyed by ordinary Process but by Soldiers if it were behind it being assigned for relief and pay of Soldiers and being by consent is out of the present case Sir Arthur Tyrringham speaks of this Use in case of a petit debt of 16 or 20 s. on a Warrant from my Lord Faulkland which is the only Case of Debt prooved but he could not tell whose or what debt it was nor how determined or judged If it were
should not extend to a Subject This is to take a power above Law and make himself equal to Sovereignty to say that he should not be comprehended more than the King himself He says he did not lead the Soldiers but only gave a Warrant and therefore this should not be Treason but though he leads them not the Commander is an Actor and to give Warrant for Treason is Treason He says this is a Statute-Law in Ireland and not examinable before their Lordships here Mr. Palmer alledged that he would do my Lord right that he submitted to their Lordships Judgements and craved leave to give answer to that point and said The Laws of Ireland are devised from the Crown of England the King being seized of it in the right of his Crown of England and as a parcel of this Crown The power they have to make Laws there is derivative from the Crown of England and they did thankfully accept them from the first Conqueror Since that they had power to make Acts of Parliament but that is subordinate the Laws there are the Laws of England applyed to that place As any particular custom of a place not the general Law of the Land is the Law of that place by a general custom and yet may be judged out of the precincts of that custom so the Laws of Ireland are the Laws of that Kingdom yet may be judged by this Supream Court out of the limits of Ireland Though in an inferior Court when a thing questioned in Ireland is brought by Writ of Error they judge according to the Laws of Ireland not of England And my Lord hath prayed and werequire that he may be judged according to the Laws of Ireland So this Law of 18 H. 6. may be judged by their Lordships though it be a Law in Ireland But my Lord urges that this Law is repealed and for that he gave reasons on many Acts of Parliament First a Statute made 8 Edw. 4. That is made to a particular purpose reciting one particular Statute and repealing that and then by a general clause ratifying and introducing all the Statutes of England into Ireland This being but on a particular occasion with such a general Clause will not be applyable however it will be the Answer to that that follows It is a general Clause to introduce the Laws of England and shall not have that reflexion to repeal any Law of force in Ireland This introducing of our Laws thither shall not work to repeal their Laws but make a consistance of both Laws so far as they may stand together On that Mr. Palmer said he would not enlarge himself it being not matter of Fact and it was not expected that matter of Law would have been insisted on and therefore he leaves it to those that shall hereafter give their Lordships satisfaction in point of Law That which my Lord called a Judgement in Parliament 11 Eliz. recites that it was in time of desolation of Justice That the Captains had brought oppressions on the people It was in a time when though the Irish had been victi long before yet they were not brought perfectly under subjection of the Laws of England there then remained Rebellions and Tumults It was in time of Hostility and War And that Statute gives but an Implication neither that Captains should not Assess without the Deputies Warrant And it follows not that therefore he hath authority to do it But howsoever the thing be this was for defence of the people to make resistance against Rebels But the thing in charge was in time of peace and full government of the Law and so that Statute will give no justification at all My Lord of Strafford concluded that there was no Treasonable Intent in this and therefore it should be no Treason on the Statute of the 25 Edw. 3. My Lord recited the words of the Statute Not to be only the levying of the War but adhering to the Kings enemies but these glosses are not to be confounded but severed The adhering to the Kings enemies is one offence within that Statute Levying of War another so that if there be no Adherence yet if there be Levying of War it will be Treason And this levying of War it was on the Kings People perhaps there was no intent upon the Kings Sacred Person yet if it be against the Kings People such a levying of War is Treason ordinary Cases of Felony are to be against the Kings Crown and Dignity though it be the Homicide of a mean Subject it is against the Kings Crown and Dignity because it is against the protection and safety of that man that is the Kings Subject and so the levying of War on the Kings People by laying Soldiers in this hostile manner being against the protection by which they are governed against the safety by which the King is to defend them It is a War against the King his Crown and Dignity This is the Answer to the Defence And Mr. Palmer concluded That he conceived the Charge of the House of Commons in matter of Fact was fully maintained and for matter of Law if there remained any scruple a farther Argument and stronger Reasons should be offered hereafter And so a Recess being granted for a day upon the Humble Request of my Lord of Strafford the House was Adjourned and Saturday following was appointed for the next meeting THE Sixteenth Article The Charge 16. THat the Earl of Strafford the Two and twentieth of February in the 7 th year of His Majesties Reign intending to oppress the said Subjects of Ireland did make a proposition and obtained from His Majesty an allowance thereof that no complaint of injustice or oppreision done in Ireland should be received in England against any unless it appeared that the party made first his address to him the said Earl and the said Earl having by such usurped Tyrannical and exorbitant power expressed in the former Articles destroyed and oppressed the Peers and other Subjects of that Kingdom of Ireland in their Lives Consciences Land Liberties and Estates the said Earl to the intent the better to maintain and strengthen his said power and to bring the people into a disaffection of His Majesty as aforesaid did use His Majesties Name in the execution of the said power And to prevent the Subjects of that Realm of all means of complaints to His Majesty and of redress against him and his Agents did issue a Proclamation bearing date the 17 th day of September in the Eleventh year of His Majesties Reign thereby commanding all the Nobility Undertakers and others who held Estates and Offices in the said Kingdom except such as were employed in His Majesties service or attending in England by His special command to make their personal Residence in the said Kingdom of Ireland and not to depart thence without Licence of himself And the said Earl hath since issued other Proclamations to the same purpose by means whereof the Subjects of
That we were sent for by my Lord Deputy Wainsford and he put us as we conceived them several catching Questions as If they had not my Lord Deputies Licence and the Boards Whether they would repair to England or no We Answered That in obedience to the House of Commons we did intend to repair to England No sayes my Lord Deputy Answer me Catagorically Would you go or no If we would Command you not to go to this we Answered No being between two Jurisdictions both from His Majesty for we had a Command from the House of Commons and a Counter-Command from His Majesty and we were denied Licence and a restraint of Ships for that cause they conceived to restrain them Being asked whether the Deputy did know the House of Commons had ordered them to come over and yet refused He answered the Lord Deputy did know it it was apparently known to all the Kingdom Mr. Fitz-gerard being examined to the same points as Sir Robert Linch He Answered That after the the Session of Parliament 1 Octob. last and the House of Commons had travelled till the 6 Nov. in the affairs of the Kingdom the grand Committee had heard and discussed many grievances general and particular and voted them to the House That about the beginning of Nov. the House entred into consideration of those grievances and drew up a Petition of Remonstrances to be presented to the Lord Deputy which was voted in the House of Commons 7 Nov. 9 Nov. the whole House attended with the Speaker and the Speaker read it publiquely before him The grievances were of that nature that they did Humbly and of Right as he remembers petition for redress of those grievances that the House conceiving the Parliament would be Prorogued or Dissolved before Redress was given they entred into consideration of a course to present it to His Majesty And 11 Nov. made an Order that the Committee should be appointed to repair to England with a Caution That if Redress should not be had before Dissolution or Prorogation of the Parliament that Committee should not proceed 12 Nov. it was Prorogued without Redress that the next day after Prorogation the Committee was summoned to attend at the Board and there was interrogated severally on a question as far as he can remember viz. Of their intention to go into England whether they would aske leave to go into England and admitting my Lord Deputy should command them not to goe till His Majesties pleasure was known whether they would go To all they were severally to answer and Catagorically this was my Lord Deputies word after Answer given they were ordered to withdraw and being called in again it was made known by the Lord Deputy Wainsford That he and the Lords had considered the whole matter and bade them take notice there was a Proclamation restraining all the Subjects of Ireland to make repair to England till application was made to the Deputy That he engaged them in Allegiance not to depart till he the Lord Deputy had known His Majesties pleasure whether they should goe or no which he would labour to know speedily The next thing Mr. Palmer offered was the Irish Remonstrance which was read To the Right Honourable the Lord Deputy The humble and just Remonstrance of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament THe Petitioners do conceive great and strong fears of a Proclamation published in this Kingdom Anno 1635. Prohibiting men of Quality or Estate to depart this Kingdom without the Lord Deputies Licence whereby the Subjects of this Kingdom are hindred and interrupted from free access to His said Majesty and Privy Council of England to obtain remedies against their just grievances as their Ancestors have had since the Reign of H. 2. and great Fees exacted for the said Licences And so Mr. Palmer summed up the Evidence That by the Proposition made before my Lord Deputies going over it appeared what was intended That no complaints of oppression should be made without address First to the Deputy and what followed declares plainly the execution of it That notwithstanding the injustice and oppression done complaints could not be received By the former Article their Lordships have heard what he did there and the great causes of complaint After in time is the Proclamation their Lordships see the use made of it that those who had made complaints against my Lord himself and his Orders were refused to have Licence some that adventured to come without Licence were Fined and Imprisoned to their utter ruine The whole Parliament when the Order was well known were refused to have Licence it is true not by my Lord of Strafford but the Deputy who coloured his denial from these Acts of my Lord of Strafford what fears they had their Lordships may apprehend by the Remonstrance My Lord of Strafford assumed a great power to himself all Addresses being first made to him and the Subject thereby excluded from His Majesty till such address was made so that his Lordship is not Par negotio but Supra above all the authority committed to him not an Accessary but Principal not in the nature of a Subject but Domini and so he expected his Lordships Answer My Lord of Strafford after a little time of recollecting himself began his Defence in substance as followeth That he should only apply himself to the things in charge as near as he could and give the fairest Answer he could where by the way he alledged That he might very justifiably say he had never in his life other thoughts or intentions before his going into Ireland or during his abode there but justly and faithfully in the service of His Majesty and the Kingdom nor did he ever desire or intend any thing so much as to introduce the English Laws and Government there And whereas he is charged with a subversion of the fundamental Laws he may say he thinks with Truth and Modesty that the Laws had never so free a passage that never any Deputy gave less interruption to the proceedings of the Law than it had during all his time That it did not appear by all that hath been said that there was any stay of legal proceedings for all the Causes spoken of him came originally and primarily before they depended in any other Court and that he never hindred but gave all furtherance to the passage of the Common-Law and therefore if their Lordships find as they cannot but expect from him much Error and mistakes he besought them out of their Goodness and Nobleness to apply it rather to his Infirmity and Weakness than to any habit of ill he had got as he trusts he should make appear to their Lordships The Charge is to have procured with an intent of oppression a stop of all complaints of Injustice that none might be received in England unless it appeared That the party did make his address to him To prove this the Gentlemen have read a Proposition of his made
Witness in Courts of Justice And to answer that fully and clearly it shall appear that this very thing is assigned by Secretary Little to be the reason why he should not go over that he might not complain of his suit and a Witness did depose to that effect Iohn Meaugh bein sworn and Interrogated to the Cause of denying the said Licence He Answers That he went to Dublin with Mac-Carty the Son with the Petition and that Secretary Little took the Petition in his hand and said Are not you Mac-Carty's Son Yes said he And you intend to go and complain against the Order my Lord conceived against your Father No indeed sayes he I do not Sayes the Secretary I will take your Petition and deliver it to my Lord and I believe my Lord will not grant your Request and they left the Petition and went out A little after a kinsman of his the Deputies Master Sir Valentine Brown said to him the Son I have heard my Lord hath granted your Request in your Petition so they came to the place to receive the Petition and this is the Petition shewed their Lordships when his the Deputies Master saw the Petition he would not take it Take notice Gentlemen saith Mr. Little what Charge he hath and if he doth any thing to the contrary let it be on his peril so they took the Petition and went away Against Parries Testimony First my Lord says he is a single Witness but if that be not admitted there is no need of his Testimony for Secretary Cook 's Warrant proves what was the reason and their Lordships may know whence that came His Sentence is thus far in question here whether he was sentenced for coming over or otherwise It is true and that is the iniquity of it the sentence doth express it to be for another Cause It is not usual in Sentences to say what it is not for but what it is for but it is for his not petitioning the Council-Table and setting forth after in his Petition that his offence was his coming overwithout Licence and saying Mr. Ralton pretended Secretary Cooks ' directions whereas he must so speak truth as not to be charged with a pretence And it were most just to sentence him for coming without Licence then for his being not called nor any way able to answer the Defence That others are joyned with him in the Sentence it doth not excuse his Lordship They shew the more dependencie upon him and by this means no complaints of Injustice or Oppression can be brought to any but himself and that brings them under his wing However the fault is in them as well as in him The Remonstrance he says is only a Charge but it is the Declaration and Voice of all the People of sufficient credit to represent their grievances what they conceive to be their true Liberty and how they have used it ever since the time of H. 2. Which is that they should have redress for grievances which is no other than the Common-Law That the Subject should have free Access to the Sovereign His last is That there is nothing of Treason in this And to this the same Answer is given as to all the rest which are not individual Treasons The Multiplication of Acts all containing something in them of an Arbitrary power conclude as effects from the cause from whence this proceeds And this thing is not so petty as my Lord makes it to deny the Access of the Subject to their Sovereign and tho it be allowed by His Majesties Letter and Instructions yet these being obtained by himself make it worse he taking so Sovereign a Power that Non sentit parem nec superiorem Mr. Palmer instanced in that great Case of the Marquis of Dublin that had the Dominion of Ireland granted him he had Merum maximum Imperium under the Broad Seal and his Patent passed in Parliament yet it was one of the Articles charged on him for it tended to the Severance of the Allegiance of the People from their King In the next Article their Lordships shall hear his demeanor to those of the Scotch Nation Mr. Maynard desired to add a word to what had been said First My Lord says that the particulars are not in the Charge but that is a mistake for this Case of Parry is particularly charged and divers others it is true the rest are general but this is particular so the Charge is good in that And whereas my Lord had endeavoured to justifie this by Law Mr. Maynard observed That they do not lay the point upon that how far the Subject may be restrained in that particular but here is the sting of my Lord of Strafford's proceedings he takes this be it lawful or unlawful to prevent the Complaints which might be brought to His Majesty against his Injustice for he hath done all that tothis people now an ill intent may make that ill which in it self otherwise will not be ill and he besought their Lordships to take this into consideration what a miserable condition the Subjects of Ireland are in when there are never so great grievances laid on them yet they cannot complain and no complaint can be received unless he that oppresses them gives them leave so to do and when their oppressions riâ— so high when shall he give them leave My Lord of 〈◊〉 says Thousands have come yea many he is sure that have not been punished nor questioned Whence Mr. Maynard observed That it is ill lâ—k that the oppressed are always punished others may go without punishment but it falls out unhappily That they that have Complaints against him are the men that are restrained and it may not be thought that they will bear a Complaint sometimes that they may seek a better opportunity when they shall see such examples that is one Fined for exhibiting a Petition and saying that is untrue when against another an Information that hath laid dead halfe a year shall be quickened upon that occasion and they must be punished more that are more oppressed as in the Case of my Lord of Esmond And whereas my Lord of Strafford says he never punished any where there was Complaint before Mr. Maynard besought their Lordships to observe that it is point blank contrary to the Evidence and Oath before their Lordships for in that particular Case of Mac-Carty there were two Dismissions It is true the Merits of the Causes are not proper to be offered but there is cause to take Confidence that where it is called a fraud on Mac-Carty's part when it is examined it will be a very heavy oppression And whereas it hath been said by way of Justification mitigation at least that there hath been no Fees taken for Licences but such as were given voluntarily except in case of Officers of the State or the Army proof was offered that Mr. Little that takes on him to swear for himself or his fellows tho he did not know
he would prosecute to the Blood That the Scotch Nation were Rebels and Traitors and that if His Majesty should please to send him back to the Government of Ireland he being then to come into England he would root out the Scotish Nation root and Branch And further did declare That this Oath thus enjoyned did bind to the Ceremonies of the Church not only those that were establish'd but such as were to be established so that the Oath had some affinity with the Oath in this Kingdom not long since Sir Iames Mountgomery being Interrogated what he knew concerning the contriving and imposing of the said Oath He Answered That he was very unwilling to give any Testimony in this particular because he knows there is a Petition for this Oath to which Petition his hand is among others and therefore some perchance who doe not know the passage of the business may think there was a discordance and a disagreement between the Instrument under his hand and the Testimony he must give being put to it upon Oath but he hopes there shall none appear when he hath spoken That in April as he remembers 1639. My Lord-Lieutenant then Lord-Deputy did write down Letters to the most part of all the Noblemen and Gentlemen of the Scotish Nation dwelling in Ireland in the Province of Ulster especially amongst whom the Deponent received one Letter himself and he was required by that Letter as the rest whose Letters were to one effect to repair to Dublin 27 April as he remembers that his Lordship might confer with them about some affairs that did concern His Majesties special service and therefore they were required not to fail to be there that day That thither they came and being come my Lord Viscount Mountgomery being not well in his health having got a cold in his journey the said Lord Viscount sent to excuse himself to my Lord Deputy that he was not able to come abroad for a day or two and my Lord Deputy sent him word he would come to his Lodging and gave warning to the rest of the Gent. to meet his Lordship there the next day at two of the clock that there they did all come and there were the Bishops of Down and Raffo and some others of the Clergy And being met my Lord Deputy came thither and told them he was there as their friend to acquaint them with some things that did much concern them and to give them his advice He did then tell them of great disorders in Scotland of great jealousies raised against them and that they who were present might possibly be favourers or furtherers of those distempers but he added that he hoped better of them however that it behoved them to do something to vindicate themselves from this aspersion and that they should offer it freely of themselves and not stay till it were imposed by Authority That he did insist further in his Speech and insinuated to them what was expected they should do and that they should be suitors for it That an Oath was expected according to the example of Scotland as they had there joyned in a Covenant To this purpose he did deliver himself That when his Lordship had ended the Bishops of Raffo and Down one seconding the other gave his Lordship thanks for his Lordships favour to them and told his Lordship that as those in Scotland had joyned together and conspired by an unlawful Oath so they here would joyn in a lawful oath in opposition to that and would petition for it to his Lordship It was seconded by the Bishop of Down and some others of the Clergy there little being spoken by others That the Bishop of Down desired he might draw it but the Lord-Deputy put it on the Bishop of Raffo That some of them thought it a little too hasty and when my Lord was risen up he the Deponent took on him to speak to his Lordship and told him the things spoken of there were not charged against the Nation but against the Covenanters in Scotland and did not concern themselves and therefore thought under favour that it should not be amiss to think what they should doe before they appointed a man to draw a Petition or to this effect That his Lordship was pleased to turn towards him something in choler and to tell him Sir Iames Mountgomery you may go home and petition or not petition if you will but if you do not or who doth not or to this effect shall do worse That they seeing his Lordship had resolved it should be so there was no more said The Bishop of Raffo went with the Petition in his hand to some of them being desirous to see it to contribute their advice to them and somewhat suspecting this Train of the Gentry that night again the said Bishop met with my Lord Mountgomery Sir William Stuart Sir Iames Craig and himself the Deputy and brought two draughts of Petitions the one indeed was down right railing the other not very mild he thinks howsoever they did desire to have qualified it something in words but the Bishop told them it was already so cold he was ashamed of it and could not engross it till he had shewed it my Lord Deputy to know whether he would accept of it The next morning some of them saw it with him and took exception at some bitter words that were in it and the Bishop said it was not to be disputed for my Lord Deputy had seen it and it was done with his good liking After that it was engrossed they met to have Signed it and some took exceptions that there was too great a latitude in it and desired it might be entred That they should be in the case with other His Majesties Subjects but the Bishop said he could alter nothing without my Lord-Lieutenants knowledge and he would go to my Lord with it and to my Lord Mountgomery They intreated to go along with him and my Lord was willing these words should be added That it should be in equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects so the Petition was ingrossed and signed and was afterwards delivered to his Lordship That then my Lord Deputy desired them to appoint five or six of their number to wait on his Lordship and some of the Council the next morning to confer concerning the Oath and they made choice of six the Lord Mountgomery Stuart and these two Bishops Sir William Stuart and himself the Deponent when they came his Lordship caused the Clerk of the Council to read the Oath that was to be Administred and some other debates they had some offered some motions to his Lordship for some words by way of explanation as that they should not protest against any of His Majesties Royal Commands and it was desired it might be explained By just Commands or Commands according to Law My Lord did then tell them they were not to expect any other Commands from His Majesty the Oath was for no
Asked on M r Whitlocks Motion who were those that took it so chearfully And whether the Bishops were not more chearful then others He Answered That indeed he observed no Reluctancy My Lord of Strafford here added That he speaks it truly to the honor of that Nation be it spoken the Oath was taken with much chearfulness and not any man made scruple in the whole business to his understanding save only Sir Iames Mountgomery but took it with all the readiness in the World This is as true as he lives and he thinks he speaks it for their honor and were he one of the Temporal men in that kind he should be very unwilling to be asked whether the Bishops had been more ready to give Allegiance to His Majesty than himself and he thinks he that asked the question doth them a great deal of prejudice in it Finding them thus prepared he was glad of it and they being willing to prefer such a Petition he went to them and served them with all willingness as he had reason The Petition was cheerfully brought to him to be looked over and to have his opinion how he liked it It was brought him by my Lord Mountgomery Sir Iames Mountgomery's Brother and some others whom he remembers not But these words he remembers particularly in it An offering of their Lives and Fortunes for vindicating the Authority of Regal Power which he said was too general and though they intended it well might be turned too strictly on them and therefore he desired it might be qualified with these words In equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects and the words were put in by him as he is sure my Lord Mountgomery would justifie The Petition was read and the Act of State wherein it is recited being in substance as followeth By the Lord-Deputy and Council WENTWORTH Where we have lately made an Act of Council in these words WHereas divers Lords Spiritual and Temporal Knights and others inhabiting in this Kingdom have lately exhibited a Petition to us in these words following To the Right Honourable the Lord Deputy and Council c. The Humble Petition of c. The Petition recites The horror apprehended by the Petitioners His Majesties Subjects of the Scotish Nation inhabiting in Ireland for the Covenant sworn by some of their Countreymen in Scotland without His Majesties Authority and Consent Their dislike therof and their consideration that the causes of that action may be understood to reflect on the Petitioners though innocent They crave leave to vindicate themselves from so great a Contagion and desire his Lordship to prescribe a way by Oath or otherwise to free themselves from these proceedings to declare their acknowledgement of the Kings Regal Power and their dislike of that Covenant and of all other Covenants entred into c. without His Majesties Regal Authority which they are desirous to manifest by offering their lives and fortunes to vindicate the honor c. of their Sovereign which they are ready to do in equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects c. and divers names were to the said Petition subscribed In consideration of which Petition we cannot but commend the wisdom of the Petitioners which we will not fail humbly to represent to His Majesty and for that we know many of this Kingdom have expressed good affection to His Majesty and His Service and dislike those disorders We hold it fit c. to free them the better from the Crimes and Scandals which their Countrey-men have gone into as also to free them from all prejudice and to approve to the King and to the whole world their Allegiance to him and his Regal Power and the dislike of that unlawful Oath and Covenant We do therefore ordain That all and every person of the Scotch Nation that inhabit or have Estates or any Houses Lands Tenements or Hereditaments within Ireland shall take the Oath herein expressed on the Holy Evangelists on pain of His Majesties High-displeasure The tenor of which Oath follows c. To several seect persons c. Authorizing them to call before them and administer the Oath to every person of the Scotch Nation c. At such time and place c. And such Instructions as shall be in that behalf given by the Deputy and Council c. And to certifie the names of all that take the Oath and if any refuse to certifie their Names Quality and Residences to the Lord Deputy c. And there is a Command that all of the Scotch Nation do appear before the said Commissioners at times by them to be appointed and to take the said Oath before them and that all persons may have due notice we think fit this be published Dated May 1639. To prove a design of seizing the Castle of Knock-Fergus my Lord of Strafford desired Mr. Slingsby might be examined and being Interrogated He Answered That about the time when it was supposed the King was in the Field of Berwick there was an Advertisement from Knock-Fergus that one Trueman had writ a Letter for betraying of the Castle there the party that sent the discovery was to be employed in the Letter and he enformed there were the hands of Twenty that should have subscribed it the Letter was conceived to be voluntarily from Trueman and not sollicited out of Scotland Trueman was sent to Dublin and examined and sent back to be tryed in the Countrey and there he received his Tryal and was Hanged Drawn and Quartered Being asked of what Nation he was He says he doth not know of what Nation but he supposes he was an Englishman For his further justification he saith at the same time there was the like Oath and Proceeding here in England The Copy of which Oath now read being affirmed by Mr. Ralton to be a true Copy 5 Iune 1639. A Copy of an Oath tendered to some of the Scotish Nation resident here in England as it is entred in the Scotish Book being in substance IN Doe faithfully swear profess and promise that I will faithfully obey my Sovereign Lord King CHARLES c. and defend and maintain His Royal Authority and that I will not bear Arms nor do any rebellious Act against him nor profess against any His Royal Commands c. And that I will not enter into any Covenant or Bond c. Of mutual Defence or Assistance against any person c. or into any Covenant Bond of mutual defence or assistance whatsoever without His Majesties Sovereign and Regal Authority And I do renounce and abjure all Covenants contrary to what is here sworn professed and promised And he submits it to their Lordships Wisdom and Justice what offence this had been for a Deputy of Ireland in a time thus conditioned for securing the publique peace of that Kingdom where he serves the Crown upon such apprehensions as these fairly without any constraint or violence offered to endeavour by such a manner of
means as this to secure the King of the Royalty and Allegiance of His Subjects To procure it to these ends by these ways at such a time how this can be strained to be High Treason he confesses he does not well understand especially since he is confirmed in that opinion by the allowance given of it here in England as by the Oath read appears And if all this had been done by him solely as Deputy by the power of that Commission he had from His Majesty where should be the crime that should rise so high as to convince him of Treason But that is not all he hath something else to say for himself and that is the Kings Letter of His Majesties own Hand-writing as followeth WENTWORTH COnsidering the great number of Scots that are in Ireland and the dangerous consequences may follow if they should joyn with the Covenanters in Scotland I hold it necessary you should use your best endeavour to try them by an Oath not only to disclaim their Countreymens proceedings but likewise never to joyn with any in Covenant or otherwise against Me To which purpose I Command you to frame and administer such an Oath to the abovesaid intent to my Scotish Subjects of that Kingdom that I may know the well from the ill-affected of that Nation of which fail not as you love my Service And so I rest Your assured friend Ch. R. Dated 16 Jan. 1638. Whitehall So he had His Majesties Warrant but handled the matter so that he never discovered it And this he conceives doth clearly justifie him in all his proceedings That none can administer an Oath but by Authority of an Act of Parliament is as he conceived an ignorance And that upon a Command and being not against Law but intended for the better preservation of the peace of the Kingdom a Deputy of Ireland might do it and if he hath failed he shall not willingly undergo any punishment since it was an act of Obedience and if it were to do again being informed as he then was he must obey and he had rather suffer in obeying His Majesty than dispute with His Commands in that kind And so he hoped that for the Oath and Proclamation he had said that which might acquit him before their Lordships Then his Lordship applyed himself to give an Answer to the other matters brought in his Charge and the next thing urged against him is the Cenfure of Mr. Stuart his Wife and Daughters and Gray That Sentence was the very day before he came from Ireland Michalmas was Twelve months To that he can say no more but that he delivered his opinion concerning them as the rest in the Castle-Chamber where the Deputy hath no more voices than such as my Lord Keeper hath in the Star-Chamber a Casting voice if the voices be equal and otherwise but a single voice and the truth is that the whole Court did agree in it And for their Fine one of their own Witnesses sayes That he delivered his opinion as concurring with the rest of the Court so that the Fines were set before it came to him to vote And the greatness of the Fine was only to shew the greatness of the offence and not with respect to the persons or with any purpose to take the Fines of the parties for when it shall be examined it will appear that little of that hath been paid or looked after for they might have had their pardon the next day if they would have taken the Oath And if he that shall refuse the Oath of Allegiance shall instantly incurr the penalty of a Praemunire the Fine was very moderate in this case In the Oath there is nothing of Ecclesiastical businesses but only a Temporal Allegiance though some of the Witnesses speak of the extending it to the Ecclesiastical affairs My Lord Primate should have been a Witness in the Cause but he is sick and therefore if it may well stand with their Lordships Favour and Justice to deferr this point till he may be examined and heard about it The next thing was the words charged upon him spoken at the same Sentence That the Scotish Nation were Rebels and Traitors and that he would root them out of the Kingdom root and branch These words he absolutely denyed and so under favour he said he must doe still being well assured he never spake them and he is privy to his own heart so far that he can as truly say he never thought them He knows very well what he owes to that Nation as being the Native Countrey of His Majesty and that respect if there were nothing else is sufficient for him to wish to it all Happiness and Prosperity which he doth from his heart Besides he knows there be many of that Nation most Faithful and Loyal Subjects he trusts there are few amongst them otherwise and therefore for him to say the whole Nation are Rebels and Traitors certainly were a Speech of a man frantique and out of his wits rather than of a man in his Senses For though he hath some infirmities of hastiness in him yet he is not so divested of Reason and Understanding as to speak like a mad man especially in things of this nature His Lordship repeated it that he never spake them never thought them nor ever wished any thing to that Nation but Honor and Happiness in all his life nor hath he any manner of particular exception against them either in general or particular Besides he never received personal wrong from any of that Nation he hath received many courtesies from some of them and therefore owes them no Animosity but all the respects in the world But when it comes to the proof that is sufficiently justified for nothing is proved of that they charge him with and when he hath shown the weakness of the proof offered to convince him of them he shall offer a Witness or two that will absolutely clear him Nor did he speak any thing whilst he was in Ireland concerning the Nation in general but whatsoever he spake was concerning the Faction in it and it is an easie matter for a man at a distance to mistake one word for another and when he spoke of the Faction there it was with a great deal of more moderation and better phrase than the words charged For Sir Iames Mountgomery he hath said little as to this matter for he was not there nor speaks at all as if He the Lord of Strafford should have carried himself in that business otherwise than became him only himself confesses when Sir Iames would have some words put into the Oath Of lawful and just Commands He the Earl of Strafford said That that was needless for they could expect no Commands from His Majesty but what were lawful and just and such is the Wisdom and Justice of the King as he dares say they will always be so and the words of the Oath are They shall be so far complying with these Commands as
their coming up to give Reasons of their Demands That the Scotch Subjects had made in Parliament This being the State of the Question and the Kings Majesty gratiously condescending that some of their own Members should come up to represent their own Demands It was put to the Question What should be done And this was the Conclusion to his Memory there being no Clerk nor Register there wherein my Lord of Strafford was no more involved then the rest that if these Commissioners should not at their coming up give good satisfaction touching their Demands the Council would be assistant to His Majesty to put Him into a Posture of Warr to reduce them to their Obedience He will not say these very words were reported again to my Lords at York but the Sence and way of them was My Lord Digby did here desire leave of their Lordships to represent something on Consideration of that which was last in Question touching the Witnesses helping themselves by their former Examinations He did forbear it before in regard he saw this Honorable Lord for his own particular did not insist on it But for the future he thought it very necessary to represent it to their Lordships as a thing not only much concerning the validity of the Proofs but likewise very much conducing to the honour of many of their Lordships here and concerning the validity of their Proofs he shall humbly offer this to their Lordships That this noble Lord was often pleased to say That he hoped he should not be tied to Words Now their Lordships may be pleased to consider the Charges of the present Articles are consisting principally of Words to say he shall not be tied to Words is as much as to say he shall not be tied to the Question And this he offered only concerning the validity of the Proofs But concerning the honor of some Noble Lords that sit here he confesses he is very zealous in that when he thinks of it that diverse of them have been Examined formerly upon Oath and upon Oath set down without great Leasure and Recollection of the truth of things and now whether so many Months after being called again suddenly on Oath to give account of these Words the best memory may not be subject to variance and discrepancie and may not forget some prejudice and disadvantage to those noble Lords honor he humbly submits to their Lordships And Mr. Glyn added That this Noble Lord hath prevented him My Lord of Traquair hath not vary'd from his Examinations in substance but if he had under favour they must stand upon his Examinations and it is Legal and Just and Ordinary and never a Judge in England will deny it that if a Witness be examined and varies his Examinations shall be read to his face and it is no prejudice for the party is ready to explain himself And he said he was about the offering it and now must offer it according to the trust reposed in him by the House of Commons that if it stand with their Occasions the Examinations may be read and under favour they may To this my Lord of Strafford Answered That here is a Question now stirred that hath been hitherto denied for he could leave out any Examinations taken and certainly as he conceives it was never intended that these Examinations should be made use of They were preparatory and no other And by this learned Gentlemans leave whereas he speaks of the manner of proceedings on Tryals of ordinary Felonies he the Defendant hath seen some of them and in all particulars where the Witness hath been viva voce he never heard Examinations Read But Mr. Glyn averred what he said before That if there be Examinations taken of a Felon at Common Law and the Witness comes viva voce and the Kings Council takes advantage they do Read the Examinations taken And here the Lord Steward declared That it is not denyed to any to recollect himself My Lord Traquair thereupon further alledged That this was the first time he was ever Examined upon Oath and if he hath been occasion of any Scruple he desired Pardon but it was long since he was Examined and he could not see his Depositions and lest he should have erred in his Words he desired this favour Mr. Whitlock further added That they must affirm this to be the ordinary and constant practice and if their Lordships doubt it it shall be made good and he hopes the Commons of England shall not be in worse Case then an ordinary Prosecutor And then offered the Deposition of my Lord Morton he being taken ill at that time to this Point By which means my Lord of Strafford observed himself to be debarred of Cross-Examining him And Mr. Whitlock Answered And so is every Prisoner in the like Case Yet my Lord of Strafford desired He might reserve to himself the benefit of Cross-examining him if he should see Cause But Mr. Whitlock said That under favour in this Case no Prisoner hath benefit of Cross-Examination where Examinations are read at Tryal And Mr. Glyn added That he perceived by my Lord of Strafford that he expected notice what Witnesses they were ready to produce and his Lordship knew what Witnesses will be necessary for his Defence and should be careful of them But Mr. Glyn said further That he thought never any Prisoner expected to know from the Prosecutor what Witnesses would be produced against him My Lord of Strafford confest he might easily mistake for never did so ignorant a Man in their Proceedings stand at the Bar But he conceived that if the other party do examine it stands with Reason they should give him notice of it else he cannot possibly Cross-Examine Mr. Whitlock thereunto replyed That their Examinations are taken preparatorily and it is according to Course of Law That if any Witnesses die or be necessarily absent their Examinations be used at the Tryal Yet my Lord of Strafford said He takes it That if these be those they call preparatory Examinations they ought not to be read but by an Order of the House So my Lord Steward put an end to this matter saying That if it can be the Witnesses by the Order of the House shall be Examined viva voce if not upon Faith made the Examinations are to be heard And then they proceeded to Read the Examinations of the Earl of Morton taken 23 Ianuary 1640. by vertue of and according to a Commission under the Great Seal of England issued in Parliament and dated 11 Ian. 1640. To the 103. Interrogatory This Examinant saith That he was present at York the Night before the meeting of the Great Council of the Peers of England then at a Debate before His Majesty touching the ground of that War against the Scots 104. He saith That at or in the said Debate he heard the Earl of Strafford in His Majesties presence say
That the unreasonable and exorbitant Demands made by the Scots in their Parliament were a sufficient ground to make a War against them and that the King needed not to seek for any other grounds for it or words to that effect 105. That towards the end of the said Debate this Examinant told His Majesty That His Majesty having given the Scots leave in their Parliament to Petition for Redress of such things as they conceived to be Grievances he said His Majesty would not think it a sufficient ground to make War against them for any Demands by them made in Parliament without first hearing the Reasons thereof which reasons were not before that time related at or in any meeting of the Council whereat this Examinant was present howbeit the said Earl of Strafford again said That there was ground enough for that War After which his Majesty was pleased to say That this Examinant had reason for what this Examinant did then say Whence Mr. Whitlock observed That my Lord Morton went further then was opened For though he told His Majesty that that which was treated on in Parliament especially by the Kings leave and before the reason of these demands were declared was not a sufficient ground of a War yet notwithstanding my Lord of Strafford though he heard not these Reasons nor knew whether they were unlawful or no he was not versed in Republica aliena yet he reiterates and declares his advice again to His Majesty That these Demands were a sufficient ground of War 106. He saith That when my Lord Traquair made Relation at the Council-Table of the Demands made by the Scots in their Parliament without rendring any reason of the said Demands as leaving this to the Scotch Commissioners who were on their way coming towards His Majesty by His Majesties leave and allowed to yield their Reasons in that behalf which Course of the said Earl of Traquairs in leaving the said reasons to the said Commissioners His Majesty well approved of and pleased himself to expect from him a Relation onely what the said demands were this Examinant on the said occasion heard the said E. of Strafford say to His Majesty after the said Demands so related That the said Demands were not matters of Religion but such as did strike at the Root of Government and such as he thought were fit for his Majesty to punish by force or words to such effect Whence Mr. Whitlock observed That the words last read were spoken by my Lord of Strafford at that time when my Lord Traquair made a Relation before the Council here which was a great while before the second Relation at York before the Great Council of the Peers And though the King himself in his Clemency and Goodness thought that a sufficient Reason to do no more upon it at that time having not heard the Reasons yet my Lord of Strafford was pleased then to give Him this Counsel My Lord Traquair being Interrogated Whether the Reasons of the Demands were given before or at the Meeting at Whitehall He Answered That at his first Relation their Lordships know very well the Commissioners were not come up but he cannot burthen his Memory That he heard my Lord of Strafford say such words Mr. Glyn observed That they put it only to this That the Reasons were not nor could not be related the Commissioners being not come up And from these Proofes Mr. Whitlock conceived it to stand proved That my Lord of Strafford laboured to perswade His Majesty to an Offensive War to Imbroyle both Kingdoms in a National Quarrel and the blood one of another and this several times and that at Whitehall being Three Quarters of a year before the other which was at the Council at York For Proof of the further Prosecution of his Design Sir Henry Vane Treasurer of His Majesties Houshold and Principal Secretary of State was Sworn and Interrogated What Advice my Lord of Strafford gave to His Majesty concerning making of a War with Scotland or seizing their Lordships He Answered That he should be very glad to understand the Question cleerly before he makes an Answer for to part of it he is able to say nothing that is concerning the Ships of Scotland he not hearing of it till now And he will be sorry here to say any thing that is not true for he conceives the Witnesses were put upon a great strait The Examinations were taken long since and for his part he hath seen none of them And he besought their Lordships to take so much care of them that they may not be subject to cross what was said before and peradventure bespatter our selves when we ought to have our Memories a little refresht in it This he said he thought fit to speak before he Answers the Question and if he be asked such a Question as he cannot clearly Answer to he shall do it Candidly and Ingenuously but to the Ships he can say nothing Being Asked Whether about the 5th day of May 1639 he heard my Lord of Strafford perswade the King to an offensive War against the Scots He Answered saying That to that question he is able to speak and he is the better able which he may declare to their Lordships here because His Majesty hath been pleased out of the Justice and equality he owes to all his Servants to give him leave to do it To that point then this he sayes clearly and plainly Whether it were upon the 5th day of May or no he is not able to say but either that day or shortly after where diverse of my Lords were present being commanded after the breach of the Parliament to speak what was fit to be done and every man to vote in his own turn and he amongst the rest took his turn and he must say that after Mr. Secretary Windebank had spoken first of it it came to him There were then diverse Reasons agitated which do not occurr to his Memory but this he remembers well a Defensive War was proposed for it was proposed by himself Thereupon that was not thought fit to be done and certainly my Lord of Strafford was of opinion for an Offensive War This he can say and this is all he can say to this point Being Interrogated What he could say against my Lord of Straffords procuring the Parliament of Ireland to engage themselves in a Supply for a War against Scotland He Answered That this was new to him and he could say nothing to it in particular but what in general came to his knowledge That so many Subsidies were given to the King and that is all he can say having not heard of the Question till now Mr. Whitlock desired to read my Lord of Northumberland his Examination But my Lord of Strafford conceived that not so proper his Examination being reserved Which Objection Mr. Whitlock taking off by offering to their Lordships that for which they desired to reserve him was another
Interrogated What he heard Sir George Ratcliffe speak concerning the Kings levying Money by force or to that purpose He Answered That the words he is to inform their Lordships of and on which he was formerly examined proceeded from Sir George Ratcliffe not to him privately and only but they were spoken in a Council of War when they were assembled together upon that service My Lord-Lieutenant arrived in Ireland in March was 12 Months and after his Lordship had spent some days in Ireland within which time he the Deponent with others were commanded to attend at a Council of War departed that Kingdom leaving direction behind him how this affair should be proceeded in in his Lordships absence and as he takes it in the beginning of April my Lord departed out of Ireland and not long after they being assembled in a Council of War there was occasion to speak of all preparations that should be for the raising of an Army of 8000 Foot and Provision for transportation of 1000 Horse which was the Army of Ireland at that time In these discourses they found there was a great deal of Treasure to be consumed and much Money required to supply the occasion It was computed and he thinks Sir George Ratcliffe had a privy hand in the computing of it how much charge would maintain the Army for a year and to the best of his remembrance it was computed at 270000 l. and odd which gave them occasion considering the Army to be transported out of Ireland was but in proportion â…“ of what was prepared in England to speak of the Charge that must be raised in England according to that proportion And they finding it to amount to so great a sum it fell into question how the King should be supplyed with Money for so great expence of Treasure if he were not supplyed by Parliament Sir George Ratcliffe Answered The King hath his Sword by his side and 30000 men at command and if he want money let no man pity him It was thereupon replyed and as he the Deponent takes it by himself how can Money be raised when the Scotch Army is on foot and so strong Sir George Answered We can make peace with the Scots when we list but that is the worst of evils and this is in substance as much as the Deponent can remember Whence Mr. Whitlock observed That their Lordships heard what passed from Sir George Ratcliffe in Words and Counsels and that their Lordships knew the nearness and relation between Sir George Ratcliffe and my Lord of Strafford and this was after direction was left for raising the Army and when my Lord of Strafford was come away himself it seems he had left his directions with Sir George Ratcliffe as it will appear by my Lords own words concurring with these And Mr. Maynard desired their Lordships to take notice of these words We can make peace with the Scots when we will it was not Sir George Ratcliffe alone Sir Tho. Barrington being Sworn and Interrogated what words passed from Sir George Wentworth to him About Englands being sick of peace c at what time it was and on what occasion He Answered That immediately after the last Parliament Sir George Wentworth had accidentally a discourse with him being a Gentleman with whom he the Deponent never had intercourse or interlocution before that time On some discourse betwixt them concerning the former Parliament in the close of his discourse he was pleased to express himself thus This Commonwealth is sick of Peace and will not be well till it be conquered again The application of these words he the Deponent said he must leave to their Lordships better Judgements he not being able to decide it And to the occasion according to the truth which shall be ever present with him he the Deponent said he would deliver it cleerly They had some occasion to discourse of the former Parliament and speaking now on his oath he must express that which otherwise he should not being the words of a private discourse which in the course of his life he hath ever avoided especially in the Case of a Gentleman They were in discourse of the former Parliament and the carriage of that and Sir George Wentworth was of one opinion and he the Deponent of another Sir George expressed himself in this sence That he conceived the Parliament had no intention to give the King Money he the Deponent said That if the Kings Majesty had pleased they had sate awhile together they had supplied him And on the close that expression fell from him that which he the Deponent said he shall not not need to repeat Sir Robert King being Interrogated what sense and apprehension was in my Lord Ranalaugh on the words that fell from Sir George Ratcliffe at the Council-Board He Answered That my Lord Ranalaugh did conceive there was an intention to take Money forcibly in England and was much troubled with the words and cast out some such Speeches That we shall turn our swords on them from whom we are descended and having cut their throats make way for our own safety or some such words Lord Ranalaugh being Interrogated what his sense was of these words spoken by Sir George Ratcliffe He Answered That the expression of these words and some other words that fell from my Lord-Lieutenant to himself before his Lordships departure out of Ireland made him doubt that there might be some danger intended by the transportation of the Army and it was not his sense alone for upon discourse betwixt others that were of the Council and himself the like apprehensions were amongst them as between my Lord President of Munster and him and also between Sir Adam Loftus and him Those that durst be free one to another did express their fears and apprehensions about it Being asked what the words were my Lord of Strafford spake to him on which the apprehensions were grounded He Answered That it was thus My Lord of Strafford at his last being in Ireland was pleased to say to him My Lord will you buy any Land I will sell you all the Land I have in Ireland To which he the Lord Ranalaugh Answered That he is not able to buy Land being in debt and God forbid his Lordship should sell his Land in Ireland Truly says he my Lord we are like to have a troublesome world and I am willing to part with it To which the Lord Ranalaugh replyed it will be hard then with us that have no Estates but in Ireland No my Lord says my Lord of Strafford I do not mean it so for I believe you will be quieter here than they will be in England But he doth not think that ever he spake these last words to Sir Robert King in his life Being asked How he expressed his sense of those words to Sir Robert King He Answered That the first discourse was from Sir George Ratcliffe the latter was from my Lord
to himself He apprehended there was some design as he feared in England and he had this reason for it too For in that condition they were then in they of the Council of Warr saw no possibility to make this Army in a readiness to invade Scotland within the time limited for by directions of my Lord of Strafford left with them they were to be ready at the Provincial Rendezvous by the 18 th of May and that by subsequent directions was forborn till 18 th Iune then they all met to march to the general Rendezvous The Arms Ammunition and Preparations could not be ready so soon nor were they in readiness till the end of Sept. following So that on the whole matter those amongst them that might be free their consultations all agreed that it might tend to the purposes here declared And from the time observed by my Lord Ranalaugh for the raising of the Army in Ireland Mr. Whitlock observed That it could not be intended for Scotland for no Army was raised in Scotland till some months after To prove the words spoken by the Lord of Strafford himself to shew his designe to bring the Army to England Sir Tho. German Comptroller of His Majesties Houshold being Interrogated whether he heard not the Earl of Strafford tell the King that the Parliament had denyed to supply him and had sorsaken him or words to that effect He Answered That he should humbly presume to crave one thing of their Lordships and it was briefly this There is nothing that he can be Interrogated upon in this Cause but it must fall within the cognizance and knowledge of many of my Lords here present who must needs remember all that he hath to say as well or perhaps better than he can himself His humble desire therefore to their Lordships is That if through distance of time and the weakness of his memory there be any thing that may be better remembred by some of their Lordships than is at this time by himself it may not be imputed to him as from a desire of concealing any part of the truth but a failor in memory and that their Lordships will believe of him that in this great Assembly he shall be very unwilling to speak any thing but that that shall perfectly occurr to his remembrance and that request granted he shall humbly answer to every thing And to the question he remembers very well that he was Interrogated upon the same terms heretofore that he is now His Answer was then as he takes it in these words That he remembred that he heard my Lord of Strafford say something of the Parliaments deserting or forsaking the King or something to that effect or purpose but he did not remember then what inference my Lord made upon it nor what he did conclude thereupon neither can he now call himself to further remembrance on that point than he then deposed The Earl of Bristol Sworn and Interrogated Whether he heard any words spoken by my Lord of Strafford That in this great distress of King and Kingdom the Parliament had refused to supply the King in the ordinary and usual way and that therefore the King might provide for the Kingdom by such ways as he thought fit and was not to suffer himself to be mastered by the frowardness and undutifulness of his people or to that effect He Answered That it is very true that about 12 months since by meer accident he had a private discourse with my Lord of Strafford and some months after had discourse with a Peer of this House my Lord Conway by name meerly to let him know the difference that was between some Tenants of my Lord of Straffords and himself the Earl of Bristol What use hath been made of it he doth not know But upon this he doth conceive he comes to be Interrogated It is almost Twelvemonths agoe since this discourse did happen yet afterwards he was called now a month or six weeks since and was examined on oath on several Interrogatories After he had well recollected himself he did set down for his memory what he could think of and out of those Notes and Papers he did then make his Answer Now his examination being upon oath he shall be very loath to depose particularly to words but to the effect of what passed And therefore he shall crave leave not out of his examinations but out of the words he then set down to read the effect of what he then spake for if a man be deprived of words and tell not the sense and coherence and subsequents he shall not do himself right but may do a great deal of wrong to the party accused and therefore though it be somewhat the longer he shall tell the circumstances It is true That after the disso lution of the last Parliament he had discourse accidentally with the Earl of Strafford but being many months since he cannot precisely depose unto the words that then passed But he remembers that speaking then together of the great distractions of those times Videlicet touching the present things that were then at Lambeth for it was just about that time of the Mutiny of some Soldiers against their Officers of the present great danger apprehended by the ensuing War as was feared of Scotland and of the said Parliament being broken without supplying the King he the Earl of Bristol did then in his discourse chiefly attribute these disorders to the breach of the Parliament And speaking what might be the best way for help in these distressed times he then conceived and said that he thought the best way to prevent any desperate undertakings would be to Summon a new Parliament that might quiet the times for the present The expectation thereof might quiet the Distempers at that time And as for the War of Scotland he did much fear the success of it unless the King should be assisted both with the Purse and Affections of his People And he Alleadging to my Lord of Strafford many Reasons for it conceiving it was not likely that our Nation lying under great Grievances should go willingly and chearfully to a War labouring under the same grievances with themselves My Lord of Strafford he must speak it and confess it very ingenuously seemed no way to dislike the Discourse but said he did not conceive it to be Counsellable at that time neither did the present dangers of the Kingdom which were not now imaginary but real and pressing admit of so slow and uncertain a remedy as a Parliament was for that the Parliament had in the great distress of the King and Kingdom refused now to supply the King by the ordinary and usual way of Subsidies and therefore the King must provide for the safety of his Kingdom by such wayes as He should think fit in his wisdom And he the Earl of Bristol doth remember that the said Earl of Strafford at the same time did use the Sentence Salus Reipublicae Suprema
You are acquitted before God and Men You have an Army in Ireland which You may Imploy here to Reduce this Kingdom or some words to this effect And Sir Henry Vane added That he desires to speak clearly to it It is true My Lord of Strafford said these words You may But by that he the Examinant cannot say it was intended but that the words were spoken and if it were the last hour he is to speak it is the Truth to his best Remembrance Being Asked on the several Motions of my Lord of Clare and my Lord Savil Whether by this Kingdom he meant the Kingdom of England or Scotland and Whether it was meant That he might imploy the Army in England or in Ireland because he said The Army might be there imployed He Answered That he shall as near as he can And because he would have-Truth appear he shall desire That if in this Case any word fall which may be uncouth in the Sence they would resort to his Examinations for there it remains under his Hand and Oath But to his best remembrance he thinks neither then nor there were used But Your Majesty hath an Army in Ireland You may Imploy to reduce this Kingdom But far be it from him the Examinant to Interpret them He tells their Lordships the words and no other Being directed by the Lord Steward to repeat what he had spoken He Answered That he shall plainly and clearly do it These words were spoken as my Lord of Northumberland hath testified at the Committee of Eight for the Scotch Affairs It was an occasion of a Debate Whether an Offensive or a Defensive War with the Kingdom of Scotland That on some Debate then some being of Opinion for a Defensive some for an Offensive War he did say the words related as he conceives That in a Discourse the Earl of Strafford said these words or words to this effect Your Majesty having tryed all wayes and refused in this case of extream necessity and for the Safety of Your Kingdom and People You are loose and absolved from all Rules of Government You are acquitted before God and Men You have an Army in Ireland You may imploy it to reduce this Kingdom Being Asked How long this was after the Parliament was Dissolved He Answered He cannot tell the time but it was suddenly after or within few dayes after the dissolution of the Parliament Being Asked on my Lord of Clares motion Whether these words You have an Army in Ireland did immediately follow these words You are Absolved c. He Answered That to his best remembrance it did interpose and my Lord of Strafford did speak it once or twice And to his best remembrance at first it was agitated to press the Offensive War for there were divers Reasons given as the Kingdom stood then that there should be no Offensive War and he must speak clearly and plainly he the Examinant did move for a Defensive War For the Subjects of England how they stood affected to this War they knew and besides a breach of a Parliament he thought it would but induce an ill effect On these Controversions the words were spoken Here Mr. Whitlock observed That these words were spoken in England on this occasion Of the Kings trying His People c. which cannot be intended any other place but England where the Parliament was broken and where the King had tried his People Being Asked on the motion of the Earl of Southampton Whether he sayes positively my Lord of Strafford did say these words or words to that effect or whether to his best remembrance He Answered That he speaks positively either those words or words to that effect The Earl of Clare desiring further satisfaction to the Question formerly proposed on this Motion Whether he meant by this Kingdom the Kingdom of England or the Kingdom of Scotland The Lord Steward put his Lordship in mind That Sir Henry Vane testifies to the Words not to the Interpretation And Mr. Maynard said The Question is put Whether this Kingdom be this Kingdom And so Mr. Whitlock said They should conclude their Evidence conceiving the last words spoken to be very fully proved and by connexion with those other words proved before he thinks it is very clear and manifest That my Lord of Strafford had a strong Design and Endeavour to subvert and change the Fundamental Laws and Government of England and to bring in an Army upon us to force this Kingdom to submit to an Arbitrary Power That he shall not trouble their Lordships with repitition of words nor with the Application of them for indeed they be above Application and to aggravate them were to allay them they have in themselves more bitterness and horror then he is able to express and so he left them to their Lordships consideration and application expecting my Lord of Straffords Answer to them Only he desired their Lordships in one point to hear what Mr. Treasurer can say further concerning the breach of the last Parliament and what Words and Messages he heard of during the sitting of that Parliament procured by my Lord of Strafford unless their Lordships will reserve that till the rest of the Witnesses come to morrow morning and then they shall be ready to produce all relating to that point together Whereupon liberty was granted for the reserving of them accordingly My Lord of Strafford did hereupon crave of their Lordships leave to recollect his Notes being as he said a little Distracted how to give Answer to these things for diverse Articles are mingled together which will make his Answer not so clear as otherwise he had hoped to have made it but trusts he shall do it still He desires leave to Answer Article by Article and how much horror soever this Gentleman is pleased to say there is in these words he trusts before he goes out of the Room to make it appear that though there may be error of Judgment yet nothing that may give offence when the Antecedents and Consequents are brought together and that he shall give such an account that whether or no their Lordships will clear him as to the Charge of an Indiscreet Man he knows not but as for Treason to the King and His People he shall give clear satisfaction that no such thing was spoken or intended His Lordship desired He might be favoured with the sight of my Lord of Northumberlands Examinations But this Mr Glyn opposed and said His Lordship being to Answer to matter of Fact let him first say how it stands and then prove it To which my Lord of Strafford Answered That in truth they make much more of it then he did for he trusts by the blessing of Almighty God to give the Answer of an honest Man to all Objections he will not say of a discreet Man and once for all he humbly besought their Lordships and so he knows in their Wisdom and Judgment they will to
His people and to make both happy but Parliaments as shall appear clearly and plainly by that time he hath given his proofs and so it will appear he meant only lawful ways The next particular wherewith he is charged is to procure the Parliament of the Kingdom of Ireland to declare their assistance in a War against the Scots For that if their Lordships please to give him leave he thinks the thing it self will best shew it self and therefore he desired the Remonstrance of the Two Houses of Parliament in Ireland might be read And that of the Commons-House was read being in effect THe Declaration of the Commons-House there Importing Whereas they have with one consent cleerly given to His Majesty Four entire Subsidies towards His present preparations to reduce His disaffected Subjects the Covenanters in Scotland to their due obedience They still hope that His Majesties great Wisdom and unexampled Clemency may yet prevail with the worse affected of those His Subjects to bring them to that conformity and submission which by the Laws of God and Nature they owe to him But if His Majesty shall be enforced to use His Power to vindicate His just Authority This House for themselves and the Commons of this Kingdom do profess that their Zeal and Duty shall not stay here at these four Subsidies but Humbly promise That they will be ready with their Persons and Estates to their uttermost ability for His Majesties future Supply in Parliament as His great occasions by the continuance of His Forces against that distemper shall require This they pray that it may be represented to His Majesty by the Lord Lieutenant and Recorded as an Ordinance of Parliament and published in Print as a Testimony to all the world and succeding ages That as this Kingdom hath the happiness to be governed by the best of Kings so they desire to give cause That he shall account this people amongst the best of His Subjects The Declaration of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal being of the same Tenor was spared to be read Upon which my Lord of Strafford said That if he had procured this Declaration it had been no crime considering what preceeded in the Kings Council there But he says he hath no part in it it was done with the greatest freedom and cheerfulness that ever he did or shall see a thing of that nature done It must be ascribed to that Nation and the Zeal Affection and Chearfulness by which they discovered themselves to the Kings service to which there was no need to invite them But if he had had a part in it he might have justified it considering what precedent Instructions he had from the King which he could shew but that he is loath to take up their Lordships time The next thing he is charged withal is for confederating with Sir George Ratcliffe and together with him traiterously conspiring to employ the Army raised in Ireland for the ruine and destruction of the Kingdom of England and of His Majesties Subjects and subverting the fundamental Laws of this Kingdom To which he saith That truly if it be made appear that he had so much as any such thought in his Breast he should easily give Judgement against himself as not worthy to live If he should confederate to the destruction of the Countrey that bore him and consequently to the making of himself and his posterity little else than Vassals who were born a free people by the goodness of Almighty God and under the Protection and Justice of the King and particularly of His Majesty That he hath a heart that loves freedom as well as another man and values it as highly and in a modest and dutiful way will go as far to defend it And therefore certainly he is not altogether so probably to be thought a person that would go against it Nay he thinks that man doth the King the best service that stands for the modest Propriety and Liberty of the Subject It hath been once his opinion which he learnt in the Honourable House of Commons when he had the honor to sit there it hath gone along with him in the whole course of his service to the Common-wealth and by the Grace of God he shall carry it to his Grave That the Prerogative of the Crown and Liberty of the Subject should be equally looked upon and served together but not apart The proof they offer for this is a strange manner of proof For First they prove by Sir Robert King what Sir George Ratcliffe said they will not admit the examination of Sir George Ratcliffe but here is a Report upon a Report And what sayes this Gentleman He tells of some time Sir George Ratcliffe said which was not concerning him the Defendant and was impertinent for him to repeat But the Deponent sayes in the conclusion That as he understood them there was some danger towards c. Then comes my Lord Ranalaugh and reports the words of Sir George Ratcliffe and in conclusion sayes That by some things he did gather he had fears there might be some intendment to employ that Army in Ireland or some other place but he the Defendant offers to their Lordships That what Sir George Ratcliffe said was nothing to him and so could not charge him with it The meanest Subject in the Kingdom cannot commit Treason by Letter of Attorney and it is a priviledge which though he hath the honor to be a Peer he shall never desire that a Peer may do it by Proxy Sir George Ratcliffe cannot speak nor procure Treason for him and being Sir George Ratcliffes words they cannot be his the Earl of Straffords offence and he hopes Sir George will answer them as an honest Gentleman and a Privy-Counsellor to the King which he hath the honor to be in Ireland And how Sir Robert King understood them is as little if not less to him the Defendant Sir Robert's understanding of a thing can make no crime to him my Lord of Strafford And for my Lord Ranalaugh's fears he may take them back again for it will be shewed they were groundless fears viz. That this Army was intended for English ground For him to imagine that because my Lord of Strafford said It was like to be a troublesome world and that he was willing to sell his Land therefore this Army should come into England These be Non sequiturs and fancies of his own and there was no colour for such fears in his Lordship Besides my Lord Ranalaugh was not acquainted with the Design and therefore he might easily mistake but others were acquainted with it in such manner as is expressed in his Answer and which my Lord said he shall now declare viz. That there was no intention or purpose of bringing this Irish Army into England And whereas to the Design he hath exprest in his Answer of having two Honourable Persons to be made privy and divers others to his Papers he Humbly besought their Lordships to favour him
were to fortifie the place after Landing at Aire and were Shipt and sent away but the Ships were not sent a good while after by reason of the slow proceedings of the Army Being asked whether my Lord of Strafford did not give him direction to get a Coast-Map to let him know the particular place where he intended to Land He Answered That he was particularly commanded to get a Platt drawn and the party that drew it is in Town and can testify that he designed him Being asked Whether he had not Commission and Instructions from my Lord of Strfford to discharge some Ships for the lessening of the Kings Charge and to take only so many as might be fit for the service He Answered That he received that command from my Lord Lieutenant to discharge most of the Ships and none went about but them that were laden with Ammunition and he received direction to take as few Ships as he could to prevent charge to His Majesty and discharged some 10 or 14 Flemish Ships that were fraighted This my Lord of Strafford said he offers because he would not have it stick with any man That in the things concerning the Kings Service necessaries were not ready at the time therefore he would not have any thing asperse him for the King never commanded him any thing but according to what he understood he did it faithfully and never any thing miscarried Sir William Pennyman being asked What my Lord of Strafford's Answer was to him when he told my Lord of some News scattered that the Irish Army were intended for England He Answered He did Ask such a Question and remembers it and may be more particularly than my Lord doth That he was newly come from his Quarter and my Lord told him That some of their Lordships were come with a Petition to the King and among other things Petitioned That the Irish Army should not come over and wondered their Lordships should Petition for that for certainly he should know that particular as much as their Lordships and protested before God they were never intended to set foot on English Ground That he Sir William Pennyman reply'd again Certainly a great many more were in a great deal of darkness and error for he had asked Sir Robert Farrar the Reason the Irish Army did not come over it being the conjecture of a great many they should Land at Workington and his Lordship protested again That he never knew they were to set foot on English ground He the Defendant confesseth he said The Army was to come to Workington and joyn with the Kings Forces at Barwick for he had no reason to prepare the Scots before-hand but to disguise the business though he never thought nor heard of any purpose under Heaven that any of them should come on English Ground And added That he did not rest here but acquainted my Lord of Ormond the Lieutenant-General of that Army my Lord President of Munster my Lord Justice Burlace who now is General of the Artillery that the Army was to be sent for Knockfergus the Northerly part of Ireland and the business to be for Scotland not for England And the sending of all the Stores to the uttermost Confines shews plainly and demonstratively that the Design wrought there howsoever it was pretended in another place The next thing brought into his Charge is from the Mouth of his own Brother and it is narrowly sought after even in his innermost friends his Brother his Table his House his Bed in every place for something to Convince him of that which he thanks God he was never guilty of It is from a Testimony of Sir Tho. Barrington who tells what passed between Sir Thomas and his Brother But in Answer thereunto he offers That what his Brother sayes is nothing to him his Brother is a young Gentleman and in things that concern the Kings service and where there lies the Obligation of an Oath his Brother knows no more from him than a meer stranger nor shall though he knows him well and therefore he hopes this cannot convince him when the whole course of his actions goes another way But thus much he must say for his Brother before he be Examined That when it was first opened in the Parliament House That one near to him in blood should say England would be never well till it be Conquer'd again he could not imagine who in the world it should be And besought their Lordships that since he now comes to know it his Brother may be Asked Whether he knows any thing of it Sir George Wentworth being to speak as to the said Discourse Mr. Maynard opposed this proceeding as tending to the clearing of himself supposing that if they had examined him whether he had spoken the words or no their Lordships would not have suffered him to be examined to charge himself and their Lordships Judgments were humbly demanded whether if he be not to be examined on one side he should be examined on the other But Sir George Wentworth desiring to be heard for his own Justification Mr. Maynard further offered That being for his own Justification he could not under favour of their Lordships be heard And their Lordships directed it accordingly My Lord of Strafford offering to their Lordships That it is easie to mistake words that pass betwixt Man and Man in ordinary and familiar Discourse and that Memories that can remember things so long since he protested are quicker and fresher then ever his was The Committee thereupon offered to confirm the Testimony by some other Circumstances but their Lordships seeming satisfied it was forborn And so my Lord of Strafford concluded that part of the Charge which concerned his Conspiring with Sir George Ratcliffe to bring over the Irish Army to the prejudice of England thinking as he said that he had clearly and evidently demonstrated it to be a truth that will not be denied him that the intendment was for no such purpose and consequently there was no such Conspiracy to any such intent and therefore left it to their Lordships further and wiser and nobler Considerations The next thing is the words Charged to have been spoken after his return into England to sundry persons declaring his Opinion That His Majesty should first try the Parliament here and if they did not supply Him according to His present exigency He might use His Prerogative as He pleased and to Levy what He needed And all the Proofe of these words is the Testimony of my Lord Primate whereunto he hath given that Answer already that he hopes will be satisfactory As to the other part That the King shall be acquitted before God and Men if he take other course to supply Himself though against the good will of His Subjects This he hath Answered already and shall not need to repeat But he finds some things in the Proofes which whether they mean to make use of to prove any of the words he knows not and
therefore he desired to touch on them a little The first proof hereof Is the Testimony of Mr. Comptroller that he the Earl of Strafford should say something of deserting the King but he remembers not the particulars In which words he conceives there is nothing that can make him Criminal before their Lordships The next is of what my Lord of Bristol sayes whose Discourse came in upon some Difference between the Tenants of his Lordship the Earl of Bristol and his the said Earl of Strafford The discourse he remembers very well my Lord of Bristol honouring him with a visit when he was sick and he remembers something was spoken to that effect and purpose as it is in the Testimony But What is this as to the Charge laid against him In the Charge there are only such words that may prejudice him but nothing that may forfeit his Life Estate and Honor. As in the case of Extream and unavoidable necessitie viz. The Invasion of a Foreign Enemy when there is not time to call a Parliament And the King may in that case use as the Common Parent of the Country what power God Almighty hath given Him for preserving Himself and His People for whom He is accomptable to Almighty God is a thing quite different from what is in an ordinary Case He confesses his opinion is the King hath a power absolutely to use all possible means for the safety of the Publick In these Cases He hath a Power given Him by God Almighty that cannot be taken from Him by others neither under favour is He able to take it from Himself If this be a fond and foolish Opinion he craves their Lordships pardon but he thinks a man should not forfeit his Life and Honor and Posterity for a foolish Opinion God forbid that Common-Law or Statute-Law should make that Treason in any Man So that he acknowledges There was some such discourse But all things taken together carries the State of the Question quite another way then when taken to pieces My Lord of Bristols Testimony sayes further But my Lord of Strafford then said The King was not to be Mastered by the frowardness or wilfulness of His People or rather by the disaffection of some particular men To which words he sayes If he did remember them he would acknowledge them But being then in that condition delivered from a great and long sickness infirm and weak both in the powers of his mind and faculties of his Body if he be not able to recollect every thing it is no marvel But he relies so much on the honor and nobleness of my Lord of Bristol that seeing he sayes that he said it he will not deny it though he cannot remember it But he must say withal That his Testimony cannot work any thing towards him further then a single Testimony can do in this case and therefore without offence he shall desire in this particular to reserve that benefit to himself that the Law in this case gives him in such sort as hereafter he shall be bold to put their Lordships in mind of that is how far a single testimony may work to the prejudice of a Man charged with High Treason The next Testimony is my Lord of Newburgh That he heard me the Defendant say or words to this effect That seeing the Parliament had not supplied the King His Majesty might take other Courses for the Defence of the Kingdom These words I do said the Defendant acknowledge And he trusts there is no offence in this saying for I conceive that the King is not secluded nor any one else in a fair and just and an honourable way from doing the best for himself and his own preservation but those other Courses that were intended were just and lawful Courses He must put that grain of salt into all the rest of his Discourse that it was meant of no other wayes or Means but such as were allowed by the Laws of the Land and were fit for a gracious and pious King to use and so understood he knows no reason but the King should be left to supply Himself in all the fair and just ways he can if the Parliament should not supply Him The next Testimony is my Lord of Holland's and his Lordship sayes That at Council-Table my Lord of Strafford should say That the Parliament having deny'd the King gave Him an advantage to supply Himself otherwayes But he sayes still other lawful wayes It gave Him advantage to use His Prerogative in lawful wayes further then otherwise perhaps out of his goodness He would have done Therefore giving those words that Interpretation he conceives they cannot be layd to him as a Charge of High-Treason The next is the Testimony of my Lord of Northumberland who sayes My Lord of Strafford said That in case of necessity and for Defence and safety of the Kingdom if the People refuse the King might do every thing for the Preservation of His People This brings it much to the other business before spoken of it being in case of necessity for Defence and Safety of the Kingdom and to be used for preservation of the People for he must needs say That is his Opinion grounded upon that Maxim Salus Populisuprema Lex In these things when ordinary formes cannot be had for when they may be had to go to extraordinary is not right but when the ordinary wayes fail and the occasion gives no time God forbid but the King should employ the uttermost of His Power Wisdom and Courage for preservation of Himself and His People And to say it with limitation under favour doth state the Question quite otherwayes then if the words were taken alone and not put together But that with these Limitations he spake both these things and diverse others will more fully and clearly appear in the next succeeding Article for here he is charged with speaking things at large but there at the Council-Board and there it will come in properly At which time he shall desire to examine some of their Lordships and it shall appear words of this Nature went alwayes in this sort from him in case of a Foraign Invasion in case of an Enemy actually entred or to be entred and not otherwise which makes it another Question then as by the Antecedents and Consequents it is laid in the Charge Besides this offence is but words spoken by way of Argument in Common Discourse betwixt Man and Man without any further or other proceeding or Execution upon these words and Shall these be brought against a Man and charged on him as High-Treason God forbid that ever we should live to see such an Example in this Kingdom A matter of infinite prejudice and danger to every Man for when that is done no Man can be safe Is there any thing more ordinary then for Men in Discourse to seem to be of a Contrary Opinion to what they are to invite another Man to give Reasons perhaps to confirm him in his own
Opinion though he seems to Argue against it Is any thing more familiar than for a Man to seem to be of an Opinion to gain a Reason to confirm that Opinion which he is of and contrary to that he seems to defend by this means to get the strength of other Mens Reasons to confirm his own by Again Is any thing more familiar in private Discourse between Man and Man than when one is so far on that side the Line for the other to go as far himself that he may meet the first Man in the midst If a man meet with one that is as far below as himself is above and shall seem to maintain further than his Reason and Belief carries him to bring the other to moderation Shall this be charged on him as a Treason If words spoken to Friends in familiar Discourse spoken in ones Chamber spoken at ones Table spoken in ones Sick-Bed spoken perhaps to gain better Reason to give himself more clear light and judgment by reasoning If these things shall be brought against a man as Treason this under favour takes away the Comfort of all Humane Society By this means we shall be debarred of Speaking the Principal Joy and Comfort of Society with wise and good Men to become wiser and better our lives If these things be strained to take away Life and Honor and all that is desirable it will be a silent World a City will become an Hermitage and Sheep will be found amongst a Crowd and Press of People and no Man shall dare to impart his Solitary Thoughts or Opinion to his Friend and Neighbor but thereby be debarred from consulting with wiser Men then himself whereby he may understand the Law wherewith he ought to be governed But these be but words all the while and if he shall shew that words of a higher nature shall by the Judgment of an English Parliament be thought not to be Treason Why should he think or imagine or fear that their Lordships will make these indiscreet and idle Expressions of his reach so high as his Head and take the Comfort of his Life and Children from him No Statute makes Words Treason and if the Fundamental Law the Common Law of the Land had made them Treason surely the Parliament would never have set a Mulct upon them This Statute is 1 Ed. 6. cap. 12. as followeth BE it Enacted by the Authority aforesaid if any person or persons do compass and imagine by open Preaching express words or saying to depose or deprive the King His Heirs or Successors from His or their Royal Estate or Title or openly publish or say by express words or saying That any other person or persons other then the King His Heirs or Successors of right ought to be c. These be words of higher nature than those charged upon himself and yet the first offence is made but loss of Goods and Imprisonment for the second loss of Lands Goods and Imprisonment the third time is only made Treason He added That their Lordships will never think these words being flym-flam that pass in a negligent manner betwixt Man and Man shall ever be brought to be Treason And whereas 25 E. 3. hath these words When a Man doth Compass or Imagine the death of our Lord the King The very words are mentioned in 1 E. 6. When a man doth compass or imagine by open Preaching c. to Depose the King And the first Statute provides That if a Man shall compass the Death of the King and be not thereof attainted by open Deed it is not Treason And the Statute of H. 4. and 1 Mar. concurr with this and shew That the intent of these was to take away the danger the Subject might incurr if bare words should be brought against him as Treason And it hath been the Wisdom of their Lordships noble Ancestors and this State that they have alwayes endeavoured to conclude the danger that may fall on the Subject by Treason that it might be limited and bounded and that it might be so understood as to be avoided and he hopes we shall never be so improvident as to sharpen this two-edged Sword against our selves and the faces of our Posterity and to let the Lion loose to tear us all in pieces for if way be given to Arbitrary Treason and to the Wits of Men to work upon it to prejudice or question Life it would be very dangerous And he believes That in this Hall there would be Actions of Treason that would fly as familiarly up and down as Actions of Trespass and therefore since by the goodness of our King and the wisdom of our Ancestors we have been thus provided for why we should entangle our selves into the straights they could not endure but endeavoured by all means to free themselves from the dangers that familiarly follow them he cannot see To the First Part of the 23 d Article concerning the last Parliament the Gentlemen have reserved themselves till to morrow and therefore he shall not need to speak to that and so there will remain nothing for him to Answer but the last part of the Act with the next Charge concerning words spoken at the Council-Board or at the Committee for Scotch Affairs viz. That His Majesty having tried the Affections of His People He was loose and absolved from all Rules of Government and was to do every thing that Power would admit and that His Majesty had tried all wayes and was refused and should be acquitted both before God and Man and that he had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom to Obedience Concerning this particular he says he remembers not anything but what Mr. Treasurer is pleased to speak of And whereas Mr. Treasurer as concerning that part said He loves to speak the truth my Lord of Strafford said He doubts not but he doth for that we should all do he is sure of it But Mr. Treasurer has reversed his Testimony in saying that he will not speak to the very words themselves but to these or words to the like effect and if he be not mistaken and to the best of his remembrance That His Majesty having tryed all wayes and being refused in this extream necessity and for the safety of the Kingdom and People He might do c. And that Your Majesty hath an Army in Ireland which You may employ there he said at first And afterwards which You may employ to this Kingdom And he saith he doth not interpret these words but gives the words clearly and plainly as my Lord of Northumberland hath declared and that it was soon after the Dissolution of the last Parliament to his best remembrance and at the Committee of 8 and he thinks my Lord spake them positively or something to that effect Now whereas he calls in to his aid my Lord of Northumberland under favour my Lord of Northumberland declared no such words but absolutely denies in his Examination that he ever
the secret reservations men ought to speak things withal for we ought to think just things and that men will do nothing but fairly and these are conditions implyed when we speak of the Sacred Majesty of Kings let that be implyed it could not be High Treason to tell the King That having tryed the affections of his people he was loose and absolved from all rules of Government that is all ordinary rules and was to do every thing that Power would admit that is that Power would lawfully admit and that His Majesty had tryed all just and Honourable ways and was refused and should be acquitted both of God and men The last words That the King had an Army in Ireland which he might imploy to reduce this Kingdom he denies and if the other words be fairly interpreted with the reservations granted a man in that case being spoken of so great a person as the King nothing in them can turn so much to the prejudice of the Speaker But he desires leave to offer the Antecedents and Consequents of all that he said in Council whereupon this is gathered and then they find the Case otherwise stated than as it is strained in the Charges God forbid any man should be judged for words taken by pieces here a word and there a word where the Antecedent and Consequents are left out for then Treason may be fetcht out of every word a man speaks as for example If one asks him whether he will go to such a place he tells him by way of Answer He will kill the King as soon the other swears he said he would kill the King it is very true indeed but if the other words be added it will then imply That he will be sure not to kill the King and therefore he will be sure not to goe to the place And if the words be taken together he puts the Case thus In case of absolute necessity and upon a foreign Invasion of an enemy when the enemy is either actually entred or ready to enter and when all other ordinary means fail in this case there is a Trust left by Almighty God in the King to employ the best and uttermost of his means for the preserving of himself and his people which under favour he cannot take away from himself And as this did precede these words so there were divers restrictions added to them for he says this must be done only and upon no other pretence whatsoever but for the preservation of the Common-wealth that it must be done Candidè Castè That if it were done on any other pretence whatsoever than clearly and fairly for preserving the Common-wealth that would prove it to be oppressive and injurious which otherwise rightly employed would become a Pious and Christian King and that when the present danger of the Common-wealth was by the Wisdom and Courage and Power of the King prevented and the publique Weal secured In a time proper and fit the King was obliged to vindicate the Property and Liberty of the Subject from any ill prejudice that might fall from such a Precedent and until the Prerogative of the Crown and Liberty of the Subject are so bounded that they may be rightly understood by King and People which cannot be without a Parliament His Majesty and they can never look to be happy Now if he shall make this appear to be true as he hopes he shall then he conceives he states their Lordships a quite different question from that brought against him in the Charge and brings an opinion so concluded and shut up with restrictions and with necessity and with unavoidable danger that were otherwise to fall on the Common-wealth as he trusts cannot bring any manner of ill consequence whatsoever publiquely or privately to any Creature For this purpose he desired the favour to examine some of the Noble Lords present and that First the examinations of my Lord of Northumberland might be read and they were read accordingly To the Third Interrogatory he saith That the Earl of Strafford declared his opinion That His Majesty might use his power when the Kingdom was in danger or unavoidable necessity or words to that effect To the Fourth That the said Earl did often say That that power was to be used Candidè Castè and an account thereof should be given to the Parliament that they might see it was only imployed to that use To the Sixth That the said Earl of Strafford said That this Kingdom could not be happy but by good agreement in Parliament between the King and His People My Lord of Strafford observed That this was at the very same time and let all the world judge whether he had any intention to subvert the fundamental Laws of the Land or no Next he desired my Lord Marquis of Hamilton might be examined to the Interrogatory my Lord of Northumberland was examined to Marquis Hamilton examined to the said Interrogatory viz. Whether the said Earl of Strafford delivering his opinion how far the King might use a Power after the breach of the late Parliament did not put the Case when there was an unavoidable necessity upon actual Invasion or an Enemies Army ready to enter the Land His Lordship Answered That he hears the Question and remembers the same Question was asked him formerly on his oath when he was Deponed and he then said as now he could not call to mind what my Lord said in that point Whether my Lord of Strafford did not say That that Power was to be used Candidè Castè and if it were used for any other purpose it would be unjust and oppressive His Lordship Answered That he hath heard him use those words often to His Majesty and on them or immediately after he declared his opinion That it would never be happy in this Kingdom till there be a right understanding between the King and his People and that could not be but by a Parliament Whether he did not say at that time That the present danger provided for and all which setled the King was bound to preserve the Liberty and Propriety of the Subject from the prejudice of such a precedent His Lordship Answered He remembers something of that but cannot positively say because he cannot tell what the precedent was Being asked on Mr. Whitlock's motion what time he heard these words from my Lord of Strafford in the said Second Question He Answered professing that his memory is not good and if it fails not him in this he may boldly affirm he heard my Lord of Strafford speak the words both before and since the Dissolution of the last Parliament Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Whether His Majesty was pleased to declare to the Lords of the Council That he had perfect and full intelligence that the Scotch Army intended to march into England He Answered he remembers very well His Majesty had frequent Advertisements of the Scots intentions to come into England he knows
spoken in full Council where he was by the duty of his Oath obliged to speak according to his Heart and Conscience in all things concerning the Kings service so that if he had forborn to speak what he conceived for the benefit and advantage of the King and People as he conceived this to be he had been perjured towards God Almighty and now it seems by the speaking of them he is in danger to be a Traitor If that necessity be put upon him he thanks God by his Blessing he hath learned not to stand in fear of him that can kill the Body but he must stand in fear of him that can cast Body and Soul into Eternal pain And if that be the question That he must be a Traitor to Man or perjured to God he will be faithful to his Creator and whatsoever shall befall him from a popular rage or his own weakness he must leave it to God Almighty and to their Lordships Honor and Justice Nothing is more common than for a Counsellor to be of one opinion when he comes out of his Chamber and to have that opinion he delivers presently after confuted and cleared by the Wisdom and Prudence of his fellow-Counsellors of better understanding than himself And in this case when opinions are thus delivered and when there are alterations of these opinions upon the very debate that an opinion thus propounded should rise in judgment to convince a man of High Treason it is very hard nay it is to be thought that this was the very case in this particular The opinion was according to his Heart and Conscience given and for any thing appears to their Lordships something was said at that Board by others wiser than himself that altered him in that opinion for there was never any thing moved by him to reinforce that proposition he rested quiet with it he offered it not again there was never any thing done in pursuance of that advice either by himself or any body else which shews he did not press it but was rather perswaded by better reason that it was fit to be let alone An opinion may make an Heretick but he never heard before that Opinion should make a Traitor And though opinions may make an Heretick yet they must be held pertinaciously and against the light of a mans own conscience here no pertinacy appears no contestation nothing done against the light of his Heart and Conscience nothing of Obstinacy Frowardness and Perverseness but simply simply indeed in all respects he did in the duty of his place deliver his opinion modestly and fairly and when he had done there he left it and persued it no further so that such an Opinion as this would not have made an Heretique much less a Traitor In the last place he humbly beseeches their Lordships not to make themselves so unhappy as to disable themselves and their Children from undergoing the great Charge and Trust of the Common-wealth Their Lordships have it from their Fathers they are born to great thoughts and are nursed up for the great and weighty imployments of the Kingdom and God forbid that any but themselves Caeteris paribus should have this great Trust that their Birth and Breeding and Ranks procure for them under the Kings Goodness But let this be admitted That a Counsellor delivering his opinion under an oath of Secresie and Faithfulness at Council-Table Candidè Caste with others shall upon his mistaking or not knowing of the Law be brought into question and every word that passeth from him out of a sincere and noble intention shall be drawn against him for the attainting and convicting himself his Children and Posterity under favour after this shall be so he doth not know any wise and noble person of fortune that will upon such perilous and unsafe terms adventure to be a Counsellor to the King and therefore if their Lordships put these hard strains and tortures upon those that are the Counsellors of State to His Majesty when they speak nothing but according to their Hearts and Consciences for we that are not of the profession of the Law are not bound to speak the Law we can tell what in our Hearts and Consciences we conceive Honourable and Just but what 's legal is another mans business This shall disable their Lordships from those great Imployments to which their Birth and Thoughts do breed them and make them more uncapable than any other inferior Subjects And therefore he beseeches their Lordships to look on him so that his misfortune may not bring an inconvenience upon themselves And so he besought their Lordships to pardon what he had said with a great deal of disorder and if their Lordships take him into consideration they will find that nothing hath appeared in him but what is Honest Just and Faithful to King and People though they were not so advised and discreet and well weighed as they ought to be yet he hoped their Lordships are so Honourable and Good as not to lay their charge to him as High Treason To the 24th Article he said he made no Answer there being nothing spoken to it And so he concluded his Defence to these Articles Mr. Whitlock did thereunto Reply in substance as followeth That their Lordships have heard with a great deal of patience this long Defence made by my Lord of Strafford and desired the like patience from their Lordships in hearing the Reply which he doubts not but they shall obtain and give a clear Answer to all my Lord of Strafford hath spoken in his own Defence and how that it comes not at all to excuse him in this case My Lord is pleased to make it his suit that their Lordships will not be guided by enforcement of words against him but by the words themselves and that Mr. Whitlock desired likewise presuming that their Lordships will not be guided by my Lord of Straffords interpretation of these words to another sence than the words bear but judge according to the clear understanding and common signification of them further than which he will not strain them Whereas my Lord excuses his words that the Demands by the Scotch in their Parliament were a sufficient ground of War because he gave no other opinion than the rest of the Council then did their Lordships may be pleased to observe That my Lord Traquair testifies that some of the Council wereof another opinion at that time and that these words were spoken before the reason of those Demands were given and that there was a clear difference betwixt my Lord of Straffords advice and the advice of the rest It is evident by the opinion delivered by him long before that time in sentencing of Mr. Stuart in Ireland where after the pacification he was pleased to call the Scots Rebels and Traitors and that he would root them out Stock and Branch that took not the Oath And he said in his Answer That when he came out of Ireland into England he
found the affairs of Scotland so distempered that he thought fit to reduce the Kings Subjects there by force His Lordship says That if the Demands struck at the root of Government then it was fit to say they should be reduced by force But the words were spoken before the reasons of the Demands were known and before he could know how they could be warranted by the Laws of that Kingdom and it is part of the Charge of the House of Commons That he said They struck at the root of Government which it appears they did not for those very Demands against which my Lord of Strafford delivered his opinion are since enacted by the Parliament of Scotland and confirmed by His Majesties Royal Authority in the Treaty which is very well known to divers of their Lordships sitting here My Lord sayes It was first resolved a War should be had and then for him to debate Whether an Offensive or Defensive War is no Crime but that receives a clear Answer for it was his Resolution his Advice That there should be a War and an Offensive War which shewes his Design against the Kingdom of Scotland My Lord labours to prove That the seising of the Scotch Ships was not by his Warrant but by Warrants otherwise procured That was not insisted on in the Charge and therefore they will not insist upon it in the Reply there is enough besides My Lord is further pleased to say That there is no substantial or concluding proofe of his intent that the Parliament should be only called to try whether there would be supply given or no and that is only deposed by my Lord Primate a single Testimony But my Lord Primate concurs with others in the same sence and meaning To my Lord Conwayes Testimony my Lord sayes That for the King to help Himself is a Natural Motion and proper to every one But the other words of my Lord Conwayes Testimony That the King might help and supply Himself though it were against the will of His Subjects must be understood not of a Natural but a violent motion and it appears to be my Lord of Straffords Design to have it so He comes to the Testimony of my Lord Treasurer and sayes That doth not at all touch him that he promised to assist the King in any other way in case the Parliament did not succeed But this proves his intent That if the Parliament were dissolved as he was willing it should as it will afterwards appear he would assist the King in any other way whatsoever He took a good Pattern Stare super vias antiquas and we shall prove that too but this was not via antiqua of Parliaments to propose Supplies in the first place and to put off consideration of grievances to urge nothing but to give to the King and before a Resolution whether they would give or not to informe against the Parliament by Misinformation My Lord mentions the Declaration of the House of Commons in Ireland concerning the giving of Four Subsidies for the Kings supply of the War with Scotland which is in the Charge but was not insisted upon But by shewing this my Lord of Strafford hath procured that which is likewise in the Charge That the Parliament of Ireland did engage themselves in the War against Scotland and by the Preamble of his Answer This was in my Lord of Straffords Knowledge and may be easily proved to be by his Procurement being the Chief Governor there He sayes That had he ever entertained such thought as the words proved import he should give Judgment against himself But as no mans thoughts can be proved but by his words and actions so the words proved do manifest that his thoughts were no other and shew clearly his intention to bring in an Army on us to reduce this Kingdom My Lord calls Sir Robert Kings Testimony a Report on a Report and sayes the like of the Testimony of my Lord Ranalagh which shall be answered when he comes to lay the whole matter together according to the course of opening the Articles Diverse Witnesses his Lordship produces to prove that the 8000 Foot raised in Ireland were designed for Scotland and particularly for the Town of Aire which is very improbable for that Town as was informed and will be proved was at that time very well fortified and the Coasts thereof and the Haven so barred and narrow that one of my Lord of Straffords own Witnesses says there could be no probability of Landing an Army there The like may be said of the Frith of Dunbarton that was Fortified long before And if their Lordships repair to some part of my Lord of Straffords Answer where he sayes they were to be landed in some places near the Country of my Lord of Argile to divert him These places are so far from his Country and such Armes of the Sea and unpassable Mountains are interposed that they could not be landed there with any intention to go to Argyles Country But admit there were a primary intention of this Army in some part of Scotland the Witnesses speak onely to what was intended before the Army was raised But when the Army was on foot my Lord of Straffords intention might be changed and it seems it was for he laboured to perswade His Majesty to make use of it to reduce this Kingdom He sayes The Testimony touching Sir George Wentworths words is single and spoken by his Brother and could not reach him but though one Witness testifies the words yet it may be made appear to their Lordships that presently after the words spoken Sir Tho. Barrington related them to other Gentlemen who are ready to testifie that he so related them But their Lordships seeming satisfied in that point directed him to proceed Next my Lord Discourses of my Lord of Bristols Testimony and the differences of opinion between them touching the summoning of a Parliament But my Lord of Bristol proves the following words That the King was not to suffer himself to be mastered by the frowardness of His People c. and to these no Answer is given To which Mr. Whitlock said he would further answer in the General Reply And so for the words proved by my Lord of Newbrough my Lord of Holland and diverse other Noble Lords of this House My Lord of Strafford was pleased to mention the Statute of 1 E. 6. ca. 12. where to compass by Preaching or saying to deprive the King is not for the first offence Treason though words of a more transcendent and high nature and hence he inferr'd that the words charged on him are not Treason But that Statute is onely of Treasons spoken of the King but not of Words and Counsels that advise the thing to be done And there is no Question but at this day for any man to Advise and Counsel the Destruction of the King is High-Treason notwithstanding that Statute These words charged on my Lord are a Declaration of his intention to subvert
with relation to action For these be Counsels and if a Man shall Counsel the death of the King Will any Man doubt whether this be Treason surely no man will doubt it that knowes the Laws of England The Treason is not in his words but in his wicked Counsels For under favor if it be true that he spake them they may be called wicked and that it is true they have offered proof and so he left it to their Lordships Mr. Glyn desired to add a word it concerning the Kingdom and Peers Their Lordships observe how my Lord of Strafford stands questioned for subverting of the Laws and for designing to introduce an Arbitrary Government the other day his design appeared in the exercising of a Tyrannical Power over the Persons Estates and Liberties of the Kings Subjects and though a design was in practice and something put in execution yet there was something left whereby that Treason might be raised to a higher strain For that proofs were produced the other day the exercise of this Tyrannical power in his person which was the stopping of the Streams of Justice but the Fountain of Justice was still uncorrupted and hope left and God be thanked we have hope still But this dayes work is to prove That he ascended the Throne and by his ill Counsels the Venome he had hatcht in his own heart he endeavored to infuse into the Kings Person to make Him of the same opinion with himself and that is to endeavor to corrupt the Fountain But God be thanked he hath met with a Gracious King upon whom he cannot prevaile The words laid to his Charge are very many That he should tell the King he was Absolved from all Rules of Government and that he had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom The latter part of the words he hath endeavoured to answer and the former part proved by positive Witnesses which he hath not given answer to For the latter that concerns the Irish Army Mr. Glynn said He shall not need to put their Lordships in mind of any thing said but whereas my Lord sayes They are proved by one Witness only if your Lordships revise their Notes they shall find them prov'd by many Witnesses When he was not accused by the Commons he tells Sir William Pennyman at York he did intend to bring the Army into England but there was Vox populi and that 's a horrid Witness My Lord Cottington one of the Honourable persons present when the words were spoken testifies to their Lordships That he remembers my Lord of Strafford told the King That after things were setled he was bound to repair the property of the Subject and this under favour proves something for if some Counsel and advice were not given that there should be an invasion on the property what should engage him to tell the King he should restore it Here my Lord Cottington explained himself saying That his meaning was he hath often heard my Lord say The King and People would never be happy till there was a good agreement Mr. Glynn proeceded that if their Lordships please to look on my Lord of Straffords Interrogatory they shall find it asked his Lordship Whether he did not tell the King that he should make restitution of the Subjects propertie when the danger was over and why should his Conscience aske such a question unless there were Counsel given to invade the propriety of the Subject Your Lordships remember the words of Sir George Wentworth which Mr. Glynn said he will not repeat and when my Lord was fixed by the words of his Brother he said That tho he be my Brother I do not use to communicate my Counsels to him and that I am on my oath to conceal yet this great Counsel he did impart to Mr. Slingsby for his own purpose and to Sir William Pennyman And so having spoken to the latter part of the words the reducing of the Subjects of England by the Irish Army to shew that it stands not only on a single proof but if the whole be recollected together there be many things concurring to the positive proof thereof Mr. Glynn put their Lordships in mind of the other words to which two great Witnesses concurr and no Answer at all is given viz. That the Parliament denyed Supply and the King is loose and absolved from all rules of Government put the other words out of doors as they are not if the King be loose from all rules of Government is he not loose to doe what he will And Mr. Glynn added That he must needs give Answer to something that fell from my Lord concerning other words that they were words of Discourse and what he speaks at his Bed or his Table or in private Discourse he thinks they should not be brought against him But Mr. Glynn besought their Lordships to remember that if my Lord speaks the words as a Privy Counsellor speaking to the King concerning the Subjects property compare these words with the other Extermination and then see what the Case is The last thing in his Defence is as high as the Charge it self He is charged That being a Privy Counsellor and entrusted by the King and a man of such Eminence he should indeavour to infuse into the Kings Sacred Person such dangerous Counsels tending to the destruction of the Law and Government and consequently of King and Subject And in the close my Lord of Strafford put their Lordships in mind what a dangerous thing it is for one of the Kings Counsel to be charged for Words spoken at Council-Table to speak this in such a Presence before the Peers and Commons of the Realm that a Privy Counsellor who ought to be clear and candid is not to be questioned though he infuse dangerous Counsels That it is justification of his own Act and so great that he knows not how my Lord could say greater and so he said he hath no more to say their Lordships had heard the Proofs and Defence and comparing them together he doubts not but their Lordships are satisfied that the Commons had just cause to do what they have done My L of Strafford desired to answer one thing the Gentleman that spake last said touching his revealing the Kings Counsels to Mr. Slingsby and others he would be loth to be charged with breaking his Duty to God and the King but where he hath Power and Liberty for as concerning the imployment of that Army the King left it wholly to him to acquaint whom he thought fit for the bettering of the service But the thing that makes him rise is to represent to their Lordships that he hath been there constantly in a great deal of weakness and infirmity since 7 or 8 of the clock and now it is 5. That his Speech and Voice are spent and it is not possible for him to come here to morrow and therefore he most humbly besought their Lordships to
give him the respit of a day to restore his litle strength it shall please God to lend him for he is not able to speak or stand Which the Committee for the Commons House said they should not oppose if it stand with their Lordships pleasure Mr. Pym did only add this That if their Lordships please to observe my Lord of Straffords endeavours to prove divers mitigations of his words some by Mr. Comptroller and some others by my Lord Goring But their Lordships may observe that the words in the Charge were spoken at the Committee the words spoken of by Mr. Comptroller were at the Council-Table and therefore they are not the same nor serve they for extenuation of words spoken at another time And so the House was Adjourned and appointed to meet again on Wednesday next THE Five and Twentieth Article The Charge 25 THat not long after the Dissolution of the said last Parliament viz. in the months of May and June he the Earl of Strafford did advise the King to go on vigorously in levying the Ship-Money and did procure the Sheriffs of several Counties to be sent for for not levying the Ship-Money divers of which were threatened by him to be sued in the Star-Chamber and afterwards by his Advice they were sued in the Star-Chamber for not levying the same and divers of His Majesties loving Subjects were sent for and imprisoned by his advice for that and other illegal payments And a great Loan of One hundred thousand pounds was demanded of the City of London and the Lord Mayor and Sheriffs and Aldermen of the said City were often sent for by his Advice to the Council-Table to give an account of their proceedings in raising of Ship-Money and furthering of that Loan and were required to certify the Names of such Inhabitants of the City as were fit to lend which they with much humility refusing to doe he the said Earl of Strafford did use these and the like speeches viz. That they deserved to be put to Fine and Ransome and that no good would be done with them till an example were made of them and that they were laid by the heels and some of the Aldermen hanged up April 7. 1641. Mr. Maynard proceeded to make good the Charge of the Commons of England against the Earl of Strafford touching High Treason and said They had already brought it so high as they must needs acknowledge they cannot goe higher a Design being laid to introduce an Arbitrary Government and Counsels given to maintain that and to introduce it by force They can goe no higher unless those Counsels had unhappily succeeded but though those Counsels take not effect yet the Principles whereby those Counsels were given appear still to have remained AND whereas my Lord of Strafford having these things proved against him by his Speeches Opinions and Counsels pretends there was no such thing done as if the goodness of others would excuse the badness of his Counsels they shall shew what he did do in the succeeding Articles And in the 25 th he proceeds First to advise His Majesty to go on vigorously with the Ship-Money he procured the Sheriffs to be sent for and sued in the Star-Chamber he sent for the Mayor and Aldermen about the loan of 100000 l. and the furtherance of Ship-money and were told by him That they deserved to be put to Fine and Ransome c. To prove the 25 th Article The Lord Treasurer of England being Interrogated What Advice my Lord of Strafford gave touching the levying of Ship-Money His Lordship Answered That he remembers my Lord of Strafford did advise that they should go vigorously and effectually on with the getting of Ship-Money he takes the time to be when as the Ship-Money came in very slowly and they were enforced to take out of these Moneys that were provided for the furnishing of the Army divers great sums to set out a Fleet which else would have staied still and my Lord of Strafford took no tice That if it were not repaied the Army would be destitute and unfurnished and therefore advised as formerly That the Ship-Money might go on vigorously and the other Money be repaid again for the use for which it was appointed and it was after the breach of the last Parliament Tho. Wiseman Sworn and Interrogated what he heard my Lord of Strafford say when the Aldermen of London were called to the Council-Table about the Ship-Money and the Loan and when it was He Answered That for the time he cannot very well remember and touching the Loan he is able to say little But about the Ship-Money he doth well Remember that my Lord should say they would never do their Duties well till they were put to Fine and Ransome meaning the Aldermen that were then called before their Lordships and this is as much as he can say Being asked whether there were not words of laying by the heels and what the words were He Answered He should not fear to do it My Lord of Strafford did say Whether on the Loan or Ship-Money he is not able to remember You should doe well to be layed by the heels you shall have no good of this man till he be laid by the heels and he the Examinant supposes it was meant of my Lord Mayor who was then present as he remembers and my Lord was there and to his best remembrance His Majesty was present Earl of Barkshire being Sworn and Interrogated What my Lord of Strafford counselled the King touching the said matter of Loan His Lordship Answered That he remembers His Majesty desired to borrow a sum of Money and to give good security for it and Interest after 8 per cent on the sum That the Aldermen were sent for and commanded to give in to the King the Names of those Men that were most able within their several Wards which they excusing themselves from doing my Lord of Strafford said Gentlemen in my opinion you may be lyable to Fine and Ransome for refusing the Kings Command on this occasion for not certifying the Names and this is the effect of what he spake Sir Henry Garaway being Sworn and Interrogated What my Lord of Strafford said to the Aldermen about the Ship-Money and Loan-Money He Answered That as he was Mayor of London in the last year he was oftentimes commanded to attend the Council-Table with the Sheriffs of London when they came about the Ship-Money there came no body as he conceives but they and himself but when they came concerning the Loan the whole Court of Aldermen came together Concerning the Ship-Money he confesses he found a great difficulty of it he could not tell which way to turn himself to levy the Money to give the King satisfaction He acquainted His Majesty That there were these difficulties in it That of two years proceeding not one halfe of the City of London had paid and therefore the willing men that had paid
the Money thought it unequal some should pay and some go free And Secondly he said it was the opinion of the City of London That a Writ for Ship-Money and a Writ for a Parliament did not agree well together and for these reasons he found it very difficult they were called up and hastened both in the Assessment of Collection and in respect they found every man adverse to it the business had not that progress nor speedy execution it might otherwise have had and as it had in former times And when he had told His Majesty this it was ill taken that he should deal so plainly because he did discover himself clearly and freely what was the fruit of the business And it pleased my Lord of Strafford then in the presence of the King to speak Sir you will never do good on this man till you have made him an example he is too Diffident or to this purpose unless you commit him you shall do no good upon him This concerning the Ship-Money Concerning the Loan-Money when they came with the Aldermen together he the Examinant desired he might be call'd in singly because he was very loath knowing the humour of the Court of Aldermen how they stood affected that they should give the King a negative Answer at the Board and it pleased His Majesty to call him the Examinant in singly and he told His Majesty in his hearing at that time That there was no good to be done for amongst all the Aldermen he could not yet consent to raise above 6 or 7000 pound at the most And then they were to bring in out of every of the several Wards the Names of all the able men of the City of London that could lend Money wherein it was required they should set it down what every man was fit to lend This they altogether declined for we thought it not fit we should rate mens purses and he the Examinant himself presented the Size-Cinque the Quater-tres men and the Deux-ace men according to their qualities but set a rate on men we did not and desired His Majesty we might be spared Hereupon my Lord of Strafford at that time burst out into these words Sir You will never do good to these Citizens of London till you have made examples of some of the Aldermen This to his best remembrance he said Unless you hang up some of them you will doe no good upon them This is the substance of what he heard Being asked whether this was immediately after the breach of the Parliament He Answered That he cannot confine himself in time he desired to be spared in that but he was several times at the Council-Table but it was after the breaking of the Parliament My Lord of Strafford observing that Alderman Garaway spake it only to his best remembrance he was Interrogated Whether he could speak it positively He Answered That it is a great while ago and he did hear the words that 's certain Being asked by my Lord of Strafford whether he himself spake them He Answered Yes my Lord your Lordship did speak them My Lord desiring leave to recollect himself a little said he will speak with as much truth albeit not with so much confidence as this Gentleman And after a little respite he began his Defence as followeth The Defendant must still insist on this ground which hitherto he hath gone upon under their Lordships good leave That there is nothing in this Article that can possibly convince him of High-Treason admit it all proved as it is laid down in the Charge he hath very little to Answer for there is little proved the greatest part is offered on a single Testimony which as he hath heretofore mentioned he humbly conceives by the Laws of the Land cannot be charged upon him in case of Treason for nothing can be charged upon him in case of Treason without two lawful Witnesses For the advice my Lord Treasurer says he gave in case of levying Ship-Money surely he advised no other ways than as had been formerly used 3 or 4 years before his coming into the Kingdom so that if it be an error he was led into it by the practice of former times and of wiser men than himself Besides there was then as he conceives a Judgement given in the Exchequer-Chamber and he hath learnt always in his own practice by reason of his own weakness of judgement never to be wiser than his Teachers or to pretend to know more in other mens professions than they know themselves And therefore there being a Judgement given in point of Law by the Judges it was not for him to dispute what they had done but with all humility to submit it to better judgements than his own so that to advise such a thing as it then stood he hopes will be excusable and pardonable in him albeit he doth not justify himself in it in respect of something he hath heard and learnt since that time and taught him likewise by wiser men than himself And as he then followed that which was delivered by the Judges so he shall for the future follow what he hath learnt by others that ought to be believed and by him credited before himself But in the mean time he conceives it a pardonable fault and shall never be drawn up or put into the Scale against him as Treason To the other words testified to be spoken by him at the Council-Table He Answers That he might hold the Aldermen lyable or subject to Fine and Ransome in case they did not submit to the Kings Demands for so on the matter my Lord of Berkshire repeats the words truly such hath been and shall be his ingenuity in all things concerning this business that these words he hath already acknowledged and confest to be by him spoken and he confessed now he did say That in his opinion in a Case of that great necessity and imminent danger which he conceived the Kingdom to be in their refusal might perchance make them lyable to Fine and Ransome but the words as he remembers them were appliable not to that particular but to another For he says and he says truly the words were spoken to hasten and speed my Lord Mayor in the services that were commanded him not out of any intention or purpose to do him hurt by further moving or prosecuting any thing against him He confesses he wishes he had not spoken them but being spoken and spoken to that end and purpose as high a thing as this might have been passed over and not charged on him as a crime but rather as an extravagant saying which God forbid a man should be Arraigned for in this kind as he is and a little excess of Speech he trusts by their Lordships Favour and Goodness may be excused if not pardoned at least so much pardoned as it shall not be laid to him as Treason when it is but a hasty word and nothing follows upon it For the other words
Money he told them that the French King did use to send Commissaries of Horse with Commission to search into mens Estates and to peruse their Accounts that so they may know what to levy of them by force which they did accordingly levy and turning to the Lord Cottington then present said That this was a point worthy of his Lordships consideration meaning this course of the French King to raise Moneys by force was a point worthy of his Lordships Consideration MR. Maynard proceeded to open the 26th Article and observed That they had shewed formerly how my Lord of Strafford had laboured a Disaffection betwixt His Majesty and His People Now they come to shew That His Majesty being put to extreame Charges by the Advice of my Lord of Strafford my Lord adds his advice for seising Money in the Mint and for that of the base Coyn or Black Money And that when some attended my Lord of Strafford about it to shew to him the danger and ill consequence that might arise from it my Lord of Strafford tells them The City had dealt undutifully and unthankfully with His Majesty and were more ready to help the Rebels than His Majesty and they may thank themselves and it was the Course of other Princes to make use of such Monies And when the Master of the Mynts gave Reasons against it my Lord said The French King uses to send Commissaries to mens Shops and to look into the Accompts and Books of men to see and peruse their Estates that they might raise and levy it by force And turning to a Noble Lord by him he said That was a point worthy of his Lordships Consideration To prove the words spoken about seising the Money in the Mint Robert Edwards was Sworn and Examined What he heard my Lord of Strafford say when he attended him about the Money seized in the Mynt He Answered That he went to his Lordship about the danger that the Company of Merchant-Adventurers were in in regard their Estates were beyond Sea giving his Lordship to understand the danger in regard so much Money was taken out of the Tower being as he remembers on Saturday night They went on Monday morning and desired my Lord to speak to His Majesty that the money might be restored again that their Means might not be seized for some strangers had threatned they would signifie to their Principal how their Money was taken from them and would seek for a recompence again by the Means they had beyond Sea And my Lord made Answer again to him and diverse others that were there That if they fared amiss they might thank themselves for if they went on in that manner they were like to find it themselves and that they should have the damage of it if they did look to it no better And withal he said That though they think it is a strange business here yet beyond Sea it is not so but on Command men have their Goods taken This was the substance as he remembers of what he said to them Being Asked What my Lord of Strafford said touching the City of London He Answered That he said They did deal very unthankfully and undutifully for there was but 14000 l. for Ship-money that was His Majesties due and they denyed the payment of that and did more to maintain the Rebels than they did to maintain His Majesty Being bid repeat his words He said That they came at first to be humble Suitors to his Lordship to be a meanes to His Majesty that the Money taken from the Tower might be restored again for the Merchants Adventurers Estates beyond Sea were in great danger in regard there were some strangers threatned to write to their Principals to stay their Estates there for the Money stayed in the Tower Whereupon my Lord made Answer That if they did speed amiss they might thank themselves for they are more ready to hold with Rebels then they were to give His Majesty His due which was 14000 l. for Ship-money Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Where he spake them and Whether he was not then Sick He Answered It was in his Chamber and my Lord did sit in his Chair and he the Examinant stood hard by him with four or five more and he conceives my Lord was sick at that time Being Asked on like motion Whether he did not tell them he was sick and could not go to the King at that time He Answered That he remembers not that my Lord said he could not go to the King but he said he knew nothing of it till that morning to his the Examinants remembrance Anthony Palmer Sworn and Interrogated What my Lord of Strafford said to him concerning the mixt Money He Answered That my Lord of Strafford had some Discourse with him and the rest of his fellow Officers concerning base Money and upon the Questioning of it they gave him their Reasons against it and the insufficiency of it to do any thing and said so much as they conceived my Lord was disswaded from going any further in it Upon this he afterwards shewed them a Letter drawn out of his Pocket which as he said was sent him out of France and in the French Tongue and because he the Examinant did not understand the French tongue he read it in English to this effect so far as the best of his memory will hold That the King of France or the French King had appointed certain Officers of his to go and take view of mens Books of Accompt and Estates by that means to see what they were worth and to know what the King might demand of them and if they were not willing to pay it there would be a force upon them to pay it This to the best of his Remembrance is that my Lord did deliver Being Asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not speak words to this effect That if His Majesty should do so he should have the Examples of others or to that purpose He Answered Something he set forth to this effect but the very words he cannot express but it was to that purpose That he had received Letters that the King of France had sent Officers that took view of Mens Books and Accompts to raise to himself some Moneys if they were not willing by constraint and withal some other Speeches did fall from him to this purpose but the very words he cannot speak that it was an Example or might be an Example to do the like in England Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Where this was spoken He Answered It was in my Lords own house in Leister-fields he thinks and there were present three more Sir William Parkhurst Mr. Gogan and himself and my Lord Cottington was also there Henry Gogan Sworn and Interrogated What he heard my Lord of Strafford say when he attended him about the abusing of the Coyn He Answered That after the Coyning of the Base Money was thought on there were Queries made
and they were to give an Answer the next day about the making of it That was about the Expedition and what it would cost and two other Particulars the Paper Sir William Parkhurst hath But some of them spoke against the making of the Money Mr. Palmer and the rest shewed the inconvenience of it and then my Lord pull'd out a Letter in French and read it in English to this purpose That the King of France raised money by force sending Commissaries of Horse to look into their Books and Estates and levy money accordingly and did turn about to my Lord Cottington and said My Lord this is worthy your consideration or hearing or words to that purpose Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Where it was spoken He Answered It was spoken at my Lords House in the Fields in the presence of Sir William Parkhurst Lord Cottington Mr. Palmer and himself Sir William Parkhurst being Sworn and Interrogated What my Lord of Strafford said when he and the rest attended him about the Copper Money He Answered That they were sent for and the first Question they were asked was What sorts of Money were made in Queen Elizabeths time of Copper for the Kingdom of Ireland they told him what they were and that they could produce the Indentures and Circumstances of making those Monyes and they had diverse Discourses of the matter of Money and it was resolved into certain Queries that they should consider of which he the Examinant was never formerly examined of and the Papers are not here neither was he warned hither to day And in the discourse of these Moneys my Lord of Strafford did produce a Letter written in French as newes lately received from thence and doubting whether they understood French or no he Englished it in these kinds of words or thus much in substance That the French King had lately sent certain Commissaries or Commissioners into diverse parts of France there to take and peruse the Accompts of Merchants and the Books of Mens Estates whereby they might know what Estates they had and this is the substance of what he can say and further he heard him not say Being Asked on my Lord of Straffords motion Who was there present He Answered My Lord of Strafford my Lord Cottington Mr. Palmer Mr. Gogan and himself Being Asked on the like motion Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford offer to my Lord Cottington That this was worthy his consideration or notice He Answered That he did not hear it Being Asked Whether he said That if the King should do so he should follow the Example of other Princes He Answered No. Sir Ralph Freeman being Asked What words my Lord of Strafford spake concerning Copper Money If it were refused to be taken He Answered That he was not there at the first meeting but at the private Council His Majesty being present there was a Debate about Paying Copper-Money and he the Examinant Answering That they would not work if they were paid in Copper Money My Lord of Strafford replied You know what course to take with them you may send them to the House of Correction This is all he heard Mr. Maynard desired Tho. Skinners Examination might be read as to the matter which Mr. Stewart was examined to he being seen at Westminster that morning and acknowledged that he was to be examined here as a Witness and it seems could not get in or is otherwise kept away My Lord of Strafford desired they might reserve the advantage of him and he would give way to it Mr. Maynard answered That when he sayes a Witness may be kept away it is not that he is kept away for he is here but if a Witness hath been examined and doth not come his Examinations may be read for it is possible a Witness may be kept away though he be not sick George Henley being Sworn and Interrogated Whether he saw Skinner this morning at Westminster He Answered He saw him in the Pallace-yard and he told him the Examinant that he the said Skinner was to be here as a Witness My Lord of Strafford desiring that liberty for him to Cross-examine him might be reserved and that being granted the Examinations were read The Examination of Tho. Skinner Gent. taken the 8th Ian. 1641. To the 98 Interrogatory he saith That he attended Mr. Edwards and other Merchants-Adventurers to the Lord-Lieutenant a little after the stay of the Money and Bullion in the Mynt and the said Merchants represented divers inconveniences to his Lordship which might arise from the stay thereof and alleadged That it would occasion a seisure of the English Merchants beyond the Seas Whereupon his Lordship said He did not know of the seisure until that morning But if any Inconvenience happen they may thank themselves and his Lordship further said that though this act might seem strange in England it was no newes in other Countries Where Princes made use of such means to serve their occasions and his Lordship did very much tax and blame the City of London saying They dealt unworthily with His Majesty in refusing to pay the 14000 l. of Ship-money which was His due and that they were more ready to hold with Rebels than with His Majesty and that they dealt unthankfully with His Majesty in not relieving him in His great Necessities And so Mr. Maynard concluded this Article the words charged being proved and my Lord of Straffords Answer was expected After a small time given him to recollect his Notes my Lord of Strafford made his Defence in substance as followeth That he is to give his Defence to the 26th Article the first part whereof was That he should Counsel and Approve two dangerous and wicked Projects First To seize on the Bullion and money in the mint Secondly To debase the Coyn with mixture of Brass That he hath in his Answer denied either the Counselling or the approving of these Projects as they call them and for that part which indeed would be the principal thing in the Charge if it were proved there is no offer of any proof at all that is concerning his Approving Counselling or devising those Projects To this he Answereth It will appear in their own proof he the Defendant did not Counsel the seising of the money for Mr. Edwards acknowledges when they came to acquaint him with the business he professed he knew nothing of it Nor did he being then sick and unfit for this matter And Mr. Skinner sayes He my Lord of Strafford told them That he knew nothing of the seizure of that money So that there is no Proof against him and the Proof brought Acquits him as to that For the debasing of the Coyn Mr. Palmer sayes That he and the rest of the Officers giving Reasons against it he my Lord of Strafford gave it over He remembers very well there was some speech about the Copper Coyn and that Information was to be given what Queen Elizabeth had done in
the like case And he remembers too that it was given over Also that he was one of the Committee to take Information of the Reasons for it and against it and to report and further then that he medled not with it For the rest of the Charge in telling the City They dealt undutifully with His Majesty c. he conceives the Proofs are full in the Point and fuller then any thing of the Charge since the Trial began And it is true he did not at that time think the City had dealt thankfully with His Majesty they having received so many Favours from him and He residing amongst them should refuse the Loane of 100000 l. on good security given and it might very well be as he thinks he did at that time he might say so And if he spake it out of overmuch sence towards His Majesty and His Service surely he doth not conceive it to be any great Crime to say They dealt undutifully with the King But whatsoever it was he is sure he is ready to amend it and to be of another Opinion For he remembers very well and he thinks many of their Lordships will call it to mind that when upon the return of diverse Noble Persons to York he understood that the City of London had lent the King 200000 l. he then said That he was glad for his part extreamly glad of it and all that was past formerly was now fully satisfied as to him and he should be ready to serve them with his Life for it as long as he lived And this he spake in the Great Council of the Peers at York and that he would be as ready to serve the City of London as any poor Gentleman in the Kingdom and so he sayes again he will and if at that time or other time he was so sensible of the Service of His Master as not to think it well done of them to refuse so small a Curtesie and exprest something that might have been spared Men oftentimes offend with the Tongue when they offend not with the heart And he hopes this can be no such Bloody Crime it arguing him rather to be innocent from doing any great evil when words are so often charged on him rather than doing But there are some things not proved that perhaps will be mentioned because they be singly spoken of but not doubly proved The next Charge is a Letter that he should shew about the King of France appointing Officers to take Accompts and to view mens Books and that it might be an Example for us here Which words he doth absolutely deny He never spake them He never thought them And Mr. Palmer only speaks it But sayes the very words he cannot express and if he cannot the Defendant appeales to their Lordships whether he should be Condemned for words which cannot be exprest and he hopes it will be of very little force with their Lordships when it is so uncertainly delivered But however it is a single Testimony none of the other Witnesses testifying the words as he conceives Sir William Parkhurst denies expresly that he heard them Mr. Gogan is a single Testimony in saying what my Lord of Strafford should say to my Lord Cottington That they might be worthy of his Lordships consideration And Sir William Parkhurst denies that he heard them But it will be necessary for him to let their Lordships know clearly and plainly what this great matter was concerning the French Letter for he trusts my Lord Cottington would remember it and my Lord Treasurer too if need were but this is no way in his Charge and therefore he shall not insist in the proof of it His Lordship having the honor to be of the Foraign Committee my Lord of Leicester was pleased to send weekly Letters to divers of their Lordships and among the rest he received one being in the nature of a Gazette In which Letter nothing was mentioned of Commissaries of Horse but it was mentioned that the Cardinal had given direction to certain Commissioners to go into the Houses of divers Merchants not over the Kingdom but at Paris and Inform themselves by their Books of Accompt what Estates they had that they might demand Supply This Letter he sayes he Read with this Clause You may see what is done in other places but God be thanked you have so pious and gracious a King that he thinks on none of these things he read it to them as a Gazette a foolish idle Letter and no more My Lord Cottington being Interrogated touching the Letter c. He professes that he knew nothing of such a Letter but because he would remember it he spake with Sir William Parkhurst and Mr. Palmer and some others and they told him that when my Lord was Reading the Letter he was Writing in another Room and asking Why it was said he was present they told him then That they thought Gogan had said so when there was no such matter For he having seen his name in the Printed Book he hath been careful to inform himself what kind of Letter it was for he profest to their Lordships he remembred not the Letter nor the discourse and asking Sir William Parkhurst and the rest why it was said such words were spoken to him by my Lord of Strafford they say they had been examined upon it and had denyed it For Sir Ralph Freeman's Deposition that my Lord of Strafford should say That if the poor men that work on the Money should refuse to work they might be sent to the House of Correction That he conceives he might say without offence but it is no part of his Charge My Lord Cottington being asked on Mr. Glyns motion whether he had heard of such a Letter He professed to his remembrance he never heard of the Letter Whence Mr. Maynard inferred there be others that speak to that therefore there may be something that is not remembred And so my Lord of Strafford concluded that he had told their Lordships clearly and plainly what is proved what the things were and as they were and he trusts nothing is in his Actions but such as may admit of a noble and favourable construction and so there is no more for him to Answer to this Article but only to say That under the favour of these Gentlemen nothing can incline one way or other to be an accusation of High-Treason To which Mr. Maynard made a Reply in substance as followeth That he should not hold their Lordships long in Reply to this My Lord denies the Counselling and Approving the matter of seizing the Mynt and debasing the Coyn and a Witness produced sayes My Lord knew nothing of it that they can press no farther but that is no justification to my Lord Strafford to retort such words concerning the Great City of this Kingdom on so small an occasion as their desire to have their Money discharged It was a grievous thing and is not to be slighted
that their Estates being beyond Sea my Lord of Strafford should make so little of it But my Lord Answers nothing to these words That the City of London was more ready to help the Rebels than to help the King and he doth well not to do it for whosoever doth help a Rebel is of the same condition with the Rebel For the matter of the Letter it is of no great importance whether it be so or no But the matter is What Speeches were used My Lord sayes the Speeches are proved by only one witness But the truth is one Witness positively swears one part and another the other part but both agree That my Lord Cottington was there though Sir William Parkhurst doth not remember it Mr. Whitlock added That my Lord of Strafford is pleased to mention a Letter from an Honouable person my Lord of Leicester and now he observes it was a Gazette and no Letter at all from my Lord of Leicester But my Lord of Strafford desired he might not be mistaken he being very tender to have it laid on him that he should in any thing speak untruth or contradict himself Their Lordships know the Letters sent familiarly every week from my Lord of Leicesters Secretary as News to the forreign Committee are only in the nature of a Gazette and so he intended to open it Mr. Strowd added there is something in the Tract of this Article that sticks near to me and I cannot let it pass Whereas my Lord sayes Words are only laid to his Charge which argues his innocency in Fact in that he hath been sparing in doing whatsoever his Language is First The Laws are clear that words may be Treason and to every mans reason it sounds thus far That words in consequence may go beyond some actions and words of the highest nature he hath used all trenching deeper on us than some Acts might have done to counsel His Majesty in things of that consequence it touches not only on the safety of His Majesties Crown but also on the Liberty of his People and may go beyond force for if my Lord of Strafford had brought in his 8000 Irish by force we might have withstood them by force But when he goes to the Ear of a pious Prince and insinuates that we know not of and brings a desolation on a Kingdom who shall repell such Language when force may repell Forces And surely had he plotted and devised against His Majesty by any one which God forbid he should or that His Majesty should be in that danger the pretence of a Prince might have daunted a Traitor that he could not have done the work yet had he done it which God forbid a Prince may dye with fair reputation to posterity but when he shall inspire a Prince in his ear and provoke tyrannical Carriage to His Subjects he may abuse a good Prince but how he may leave him to posterity I leave to your Lordships But my Lord stays not singly in Counsel and Advice but something was done upon it I appeal to your Lordships when proof shall be brought in the case and First consider the misery that England is now in what could have been done more to have made us miserable but absolute desolation The Aldermen were committed that very day and though it cannot be proved he gave the immediate Counsel yet he gave the Counsel that hath been proved and that day four of them were committed and this the Aldermen are ready to prove Sir Henry Garaway Interrogated Whether any of the Aldermen were committed He Answered That he shall not need to Answer that for my Lord will confess it there were four Aldermen committed Alderman Rainston Alderman Somes Alderman Geere Alderman Atkins and it was the same day they were there to give an account of the able Men and the loan of 100000 l. Their Answer not giving satisfaction they were committed the same day to several prisons by what Order or Direction he knows not So Mr. Glyn desired their Lordships to observe the words proved against him That no good will be done on them till they were laid by the heels which my Lord sayes produced no effect yet that very day four were laid by the heels and it rests upon their Lordships Judgements by whose advice And Mr. Strowde concluded That my Lord of Straffords Words and Actions Agree in this Kingdom and the miseries of this Kingdom do agree with his Words and Actions And so the 26th Article was concluded THE Seven and Twentieth Article The Charge 26 THat in or about the month of August last he was made Lieutenant-General of all His Majesties â—orces in the North prepared against the Scots and being at York did then in the month of September by his own authority and without any lawful Warrant impose a Tax on His Majesties Subjects in the County of York of eight pence per diem for maintainance of every Soldier of the Trained-bands of that County which sums of Money he caused to be levied by force And to the end to compel His Majesties Subjects out of fear and terror to yield to the payment of the same he did Declare that he would commit them that refused the payment thereof and the Soldiers should be satisfied out of their Estates and they that refused it were in very little better condition than of High Treason MR. Maynard proceeded to the 27 the Article That the Earl of Strafford imposed a Tax on His Majesties Subjects in the County of York of 8 d. per diem for the maintainance of every Soldier of the Trained Band of that County causing it to be levied by force Threatening them that refused with Commitment and that they that did not pay the Soldiers should be satisfied out of their Goods and they were in little better case than the case of High Treason that refused to pay The state of their proofs will stand thus There were three Levies First a months Contribution and that was for the general The Second a Contribution for a fornight and that was for two particular Regiments or Companies A Third for a month more so it was for ten weeks in the whole My Lord of Strafford pretends two things in his Answer for his excuse First That it was upon a Petition from the Country To that we say this The Country did petition His Majesty offering their endeavour in that Petition they likewise desire a Parliament for redress of grievances with which Petition some principal Gentlemen of the Countrey attended my Lord of Strafford desiring his assistance He likes well the clause concerning the Petitioners endeavours but not that touching the Parliament and therefore he would not deliver it though he said it would fall out there would be a Parliament His Majesty having resolved it but he likes not that they should Petition it They refusing to retract from their Petition he doth in the name of some of his Lordships Friends and Dependants
by themselves and drew this Petition for my Lord being Lord Lieutenant-General and a Privy-Counsellor they should not have been so free to deliver their opinions though he the Examinant thinks some of them should have been free enough They drew the Petition and he thinks there was 100 hands to it and being delivered to my Lord-Lieutenant he took exception because it concluded with desire of a Parliament and told them if they would leave out that Clause he would deliver it if not he would not and after long discourse wherein he shewed much Eloquence most of them continued their resolution to stand to that Petition and many went out of Town and left it without making question but it should be delivered to His Majesty My Lord after put it to Vote whereof there were many Papists and on the Vote delivered an Answer what he the Examinant doth not know for he staid behind to draw another Petition and an humble protestation to His Majesty that this Petition was the Answer of the Countrey Lord Wharton being Sworn and Examined to the point of the Petition His Lordship Answered That this was unexpected to him for he heard not of it from the Committee till he came into the place but he can perfectly speak to it having a little Interest in it himself being one of them who subscribed it That on Saturday in the afternoon being appointed to attend my Lord of Strafford touching this business for most of the Gentlemen desiring to be at home on a suddain went out of Town and desired him with some others to deliver this Petition to my Lord by his own hand to be delivered to the King he did so and accordingly desired my Lord to deliver it in the name of the Gentlemen that had set their Hands to it many being likewise with him on that occasion That my Lord of Strafford took exception to the clause for a Parliament and said That if they would put that out he would joyn in the rest of the Petition Divers of the Gentlemen that were there there being not many that had set their hands would not goe back from that which with so much Humility and Reason they thought was desired thereupon my Lord would not deliver it and went to the King But they that thought not fit to have the Petition altered thought not fit to go with him to the King and what he said he the Examinant knows not Sir William Pennyman being Sworn and Interrogated Whether a Warrant now shewed him was not under His Hand and Seal He confessed it was his Hand and Seal And that being desired to be read Sir William Pennyman offered to their Lordships that he presumes he comes to be a Witness against my Lord of Strafford not himself and referred it to their Lordships whether he should answer any thing against himself this having an oblique aspect on himself but if their Lordships will require him he will submit But Mr. Maynard upon opening of the matter shewing that they urge it only as grounded on my Lord of Strafford's Command for levying of Moneys It was read being to this effect To the Constable of Sergeant-Major Yaworthe's Company WHereas the Lord-Lieutenant-General of His Majesties Army by His Majesties Command sent forth Warrants to the Constable of this Weapontake of Longborough for Collecting and Paying the Soldiers of my Regiment Six weeks pay to be delivered from my hands which is not yet received from c. These are therefore once more in His Majesties Name to Will and Require you forthwith to pay or cause to be paid to the said Sergeant-Major the several Rates and Proportions both of the First and Second Contribution Assessed on your-Town c. And if any person or persons shall refuse so to do you are instantly on receit hereof to bring him or them c. to serve in their own persons for the defence of this County as the necessity of this Cause requires And hereof c. fail not 19 Octob. 1640. Sir William Pennyman being Asked Whether the Warrant was grounded on a former Command of my Lord of Strafford He Answered That he cannot directly speak to that he will not charge his memory with it for he thinks the first Warrant was issued by the Vice-President and whether any was issued by my Lord of Straffords direction he cannot Answer precisely but he conceives there was and he hath a confused notion in his head but he cannot particularly and distinctly remember it Being Asked Whether he knew any Deputy-Lieutenants were drawn to issue a Warrant to levy money on the Country on this ground that the Lords of the Great Council had consented to it He Answered That he conceives they were summoned thither together and on this occasion when the Trayned-Bands were disbanded it was thought fit the Frontier-Regiments viz. his the Examinants and Sir Thomas Danbies should be continued but he the Examinant Conceiving it unreasonable and unequal that they should continue at their own Charge and the rest not tributary to them and at least they not being ordered to march successively to relieve them he the Examinant complained thereof to my Lord of Strafford they were thereupon sent for and an Order was made to which he the Examinant refers himself Being asked Whether it was not to this effect Whether those that would not pay their Money should serve in Person He Answered Sure he believes it was for his Warrant is a relative Warrant to that other Being Asked On what Grounds the Deputy Lieutenants were induced to make such an Order and Whether it was not on an Allegation that the Lords of the Great Council had Consented or Commanded it should be done He Answered That he presumes it is matter of Record if a man may say so for the Warrant will speak But he presumes there was some such thing spoken by my Lord of Strafford that he had acquainted His Majesty with it or the Greatest Counsel or to that effect and that induced them to put that into the Preamble of the Order Being prest to speak his knowledge He Answered That truely he verily believes it was so Being prest again to speak his knowledge positively He Answered That he doth very Confidently and assuredly believe it is so but he doth not particularly remember it for it is a great while since he saw that Warrant but it is matter of Record and if he sees a Copy of the Warrant he shall let their Lordships know whether it be a true Copy Being prest further to Answer Upon what ground it was made And whether upon an Allegation of a Consent of the Lords of the great Council He Answered That he cannot further Answer than before he doth very confidently believe it to be so for he doth remember my Lord of Strafford told them he had acquainted the Kings Majesty or the Lords of the Great Council which induced them to put them into the preamble of the Order Being yet urged to
answer Categorically He Answered That he verily believes my Lord did so and that under favour reaches almost to a knowledge the thing is so notorious that the thing it self may be known Being required to speak his knowledge Whether my Lord of Strafford told them the Lords had Commanded or Consented to it He Answered When that was spoken of he was out of the Room and it was drawn by Mr. Rockley a Deputy Lieutenant but Mr. Rockley told him my Lord did say so Being yet again prest to a positive Answer Mr. Maynard observing to their Lordships That when a Gentleman is brought upon his Oath in a Cause of this Consequence this Dalliance is not to be admitted He Answered That he Answer'd as clearly as can be And the Gentlemen will not press him beyond his knowledge He sayes he doth confidently believe it but under favour he was not at that time in the Room but Mr. Rockley told him My Lord of Strafford had acquainted the King and the Great Council Mr. Maynard observing That now he speaks less then before and desired he might be Interrogated Whether at that time or at any other time my Lord of Strafford told him The Lords of the Great Council had assented to this Levy Which being proposed He Answered He doth confidently believe my Lord did it It may be proved by a great many others but he is confident of this as of any thing in the World that my Lord did tell them when they went to draw the Warrant That my Lord had acquainted the Lords of the Great Council and His Majesty and that he did it by their Consent and therefore they put it into the Preamble of their Order Sir Hen. Griffin Sworn and Interrogated Whether my Lord of Strafford said The Lords of the Great Council had consented to the levying of Money He Answered He heard my Lord say so indeed or else they had not set their hands to the Order that he had direction from the Great Council to levy Money for Sir William Pennyman and Sir Tho. Danbies Regiments Being Interrogated In what manner the Money was to be Levyed He Answered That he doth not know in what manner Being Asked on my Lord of Clares Motion What he meant by this Direction He Answered That there was an Order made from all them that were Deputy-Lieutenants and my Lord of Strafford as one and this is the Order concerning the levying of Money for the two Regiments Being Asked on Mr. Glyns Motion Whether my Lord of Strafford had not directed the money to be levied in manner as is exprest in the Order He Answered That to his best Remembrance my Lord did say so he must confess Being Asked Whether in case any refused to pay this money they were not to be compelled to serve in person He Answered There was such a Clause in the Order to his best Remembrance Mr. Robert Strickland Sworn and Interrogated Whether my Lord of Strafford said The Great Council had directed Warrants should be issued for the levying of Money He Answered Yes It cannot be deny'd He the Examinant gave a Copy of that Order when the last Commissioners were at Rippon and he saw a Gentleman even now behind him that had a Copy of the Order and Warrant and it is declared that it was done by the Great Council of the Peers Sir Iohn Burroughes Sworn and Interrogated Whether he knew of any such VVarrant or Order for levying money for those two Regiments He humbly intreated That he might have their Lordships direction before he Answered the Question for their Lordships know very well that by His Majesties Command he was appointed to be Clerk or Register of the Great Council Moreover he conceives That by his duty all Orders and Resolutions of the House especially those that concerned third Parties without asking leave he was to deliver to the parties if they required them But for such Debates and Arguments as were used in the Great Council to and again between their Lordships he humbly intreated their Lordships Direction VVhether he should publish any thing of them or no And upon their Lordships Order he shall clearly and with all integrity deliver the truth Being permitted by their Lordships to speak to the Questions propounded He proceeded and said That he hath very good cause to remember that upon the 20th of October he went to my Lords Commissioners for the Scotch Treaty at Ripon and upon that day there were two prime Gentlemen of those parts that came and attended the Lords he thinks about business of their own and he supposes only to tender their service to their Lordships That amongst some other Discourses betwixt the Lords and them they mentioned some such Order as this was concerning the relieving of the two Regiments that were for the Guard of Richmondshire and some other of those parts made as they said by the Great Council of the Peers and thereupon that themselves my Lord of Strafford and the rest of the Deputy-Lieutenants had granted out VVarrants for the Assessing of Money for the relieving of those Regiments Those that heard it were startled at the Order being said to be an Order of the Great Council and commanded him the Examinant to inform them VVhether he knew of any such Order he told them He remembers not any such Order and was confident he never drew up any because he never heard any mention of those two Regiments in the Great Council Their Lordships asking him whether he was sure of it he told their Lordships he would look on his Notes and faithfully inform them how the case stood he did so and came back to their Lordships and told them he found nothing in his Notes of these Regiments and while he was there he was confident no Order was drawn up It is true he told their Lordships some Order might be drawn up when he was absent for he was first at Ripon and at York he was oftentimes employed in the Committee to write Letters and Orders and what was done in his absence he could give no answer to but confident he was no Order was made before the 20th of October by him or in his hearing or knowledge Hereupon the Lords desired those two Gentlemen to give them Copies of the Warrants they had sent out And that he the Examinant should take their Testimony which he did this was the Twentieth or Twenty seventh of October which was the last day of the Great Council of the Peers My Lord of Strafford in Council then did take notice that some such thing had been done at Ripon and then said to my Lord that he did conceive he had the Kings Order and their Lordships Approbation for the issuing out of this VVarrant But since he conceived their Lordships disliked it he had taken Copies of it he was very willing to withdraw these Warrants And on Debate there was nothing more done For his part he never drew up an Order nor
the Warrant is to pay the Money Assessed and if they will not they shall attend so that what is matter of service is turned out of its Course and this is a high abuse of his power which makes that matter of Money which should be matter of Service and by this meanes awes men to pay money The Country on demand of His Majesty did consent to a Moneths pay but my Lord without their consent extends it beyond and pretends an Order to say no more of it when there was no such thing to draw some Deputy-Lieutenants together and when they are drawn to make an Order this must be his Justification of that which is unduely done And this is far from the mitigation of an Offence To do an unjust Act is one thing but it is a great aggravation when it is drawn by pretence of an authority which never was On 27 October the self same day Sir Iohn Burroughs spake of notice taken by their Lordships disclayming the Order for a Warrant And then my Lord acknowledged it to be an Error and it is doubtful whether he would have acknowleged it to be so if it had not been proved so My Lords Commission speaks not of Money and the Statute makes not to this Case it being only That when men are on their Allegiance doing the King faithful service they should not be attainted of High-Treason for doing their duty And the Interpretation his Lordship puts on it is that the duty of the Subject cannot be done to the King without levying money in an unlawful way if the levying of Money or the Imposing of Charges be matter of duty then he gives a Justification of the Charge And whereas he sayes though he had not had command from His Majesty nor Order from the Council of Peers he had power enough to do that which he did it is to be observed that my Lord did not require men first to serve but first to pay money and if they paid not then he Menaces them that they should serve as appears by Sir William Pennymans Warrant and therefore the Warrant might be observed which Sir William Pennyman justifies so unwillingly though in other things he be very forward and for a man to be required to pay Money and if he will not pay it then to perform service is hard for now he comes not on the Kings service but on the displeasure of them that require Money from him and that 's a bad discouragement to them that serve And whereas my Lord sayes nothing is proved or but by single proof their Lordships may be pleased to remember what is proved by Sir Henry Griffin That my Lord said That Money should be levied and he would take a course for it and the same Gentlemen deposes that the Warrant or Order was under my Lord Straffords hand which was the Warrant for them to pay Money It is likewise proved by Sir William Ingram that he said the private men must maintain after 1 d. per day and gave out his Command to the Constables and he would have all men know that those that refused it were in a little better condition than High Treason so that to the first part there is more than a single Testimony The latter part shall be proved by an other Mr. Henry Cholmley being Interrogated What he heard my Lord of Strafford speak concerning Treason in case men pay not that Money or to that effect He Answered That he heard not any thing at all of Treason Cconcerning the not payment Answered That at York at the Mannor-House my Lord of Strafford speaking of the raising of the Trained-Bands said we are all by Law tyed to serve the King in our own persons and if any refuse they are in little better case than Treason he cannot tell whether he said High Treason and they might be severely punished in the Star-Chamhamber And their Lordships may remember Mr. Cholmeleys former Testimony that the Vice-President might or shall send forth Warrants to levy Money And therefore these Gentlemens Testimonies stand without impeachment of that point My Lord sayes Moneys were not levyed by force yet it was proved that for these two Regiments Money was levyed by force for Four Soldiers came to the Town and went with the Constables But he sayes it concerns not him for no Warrant of his was shown Their Lordships will not expect that my Lord of Strafford should give particular Warrants to every Officer his Direction is proved in general his Commands are conveyed and distributed by particular Ministers The Captains look for Commands from them that are above them and they from the Lieutenant-General And Sir William Pennyman conceives the Warrant made out by the Vice-President was by a Warrant from my Lord of Strafford or he had my Lord of Straffords Command So that take that which is under Hand and Seal take what Sir William Pennyman take what Mr. Cholmeley hath spoken it cannot be otherwise but it was done by my Lord of Straffords Command and that is sure without legal Authority and so Mr. Maynard conceived they had made a full proof of this Article For that which concernes the Great Council he desired my Lords Answer might be read where he sayes expresly It was done by order of the Lords of the Great Council And Mr. Maynard humbly prayed that some of the Lords of the Great Council might declare the Truth in that Case But my Lord of Strafford Answered That he confessed it here at the Barr that it is so and must humbly put their Lordships in mind that in his Answer he prayes if any thing be mistaken he may have time to amend it and he doth amend it he confesses it was put in too strongly Mr. Glyn added That they put their Lordships in mind of it that it may not be forgotten After his Lordship was put in mind of it by the Lords of the Great Council he retracts it yet when he comes to Answer he affirms it therefore they think it necessary to put their Lordships in mind of it least he affirm it again Mr. Whitlock observed That my Lord of Strafford had made Justification of his Act here and truely the opinions which he hath here published and declared in the face of the Parliament are sufficient grounds of Condemnation of him He said the other day That in case of necessity the King was loose and absolved from all Rules of Government and that then Money might be levied by Force and that their Lordships very well remembers what that necessity was indeed no necessity at all But whatsoever the necessity is they know no such Tenent as my Lord of Strafford publishes But it is expresly against the Fundamental Lawes of the Kingdom and a meer Course for his bringing in an Arbitrary Power His Lordship said That as he stood qualified he might justifie as much as he hath done Which words are little less than the offence wherewith he is charged
By my Faith I fear and doubt very much these Fears and Doubts might Accuse me and Condemn me of Treason more then once a Year But my Lords his Fears and Doubts he may keep to himself I hope they shall not be brought any way to the prejudice of me I am I thank God both confident and knowing there is no such thing The next is the Testimony of Mr. Treasurer Vane and the Words Mr. Treasurer doth Witness against me in that particular are as I conceive these that I should say to His Majesty in an Argument concerning an Offensive or Defensive War with Scotland Your Majesty hath tryed all wayes and are refused and in this extream necessity for the safety of the Kingdom and Your People You may imploy the Irish Army to reduce this Kingdom My Lords To this I say that under favour Mr. Treasurer was in this methoughts a little Dubious he was something doubtful for at the first he told your Lordships he would deal plainly and clearly with you that he knew before whom he spoke and then my Lords it was but to the best of his Remembrance that these and these words were spoken At the last my Lords being put to it more he was pleased to say that these were positively the words or something to that effect So my Lords here is but a dubious and uncertain Witness under favour and these Professions of his speaking clearly and plainly and of his Consideration before whom he was which are something unusual Clauses to Men that come to Swear upon Oath make me conceive him something Dubious in this point Secondly My Lords he is a Single Witness and not onely so but under favour disavowed by all the rest that were present at the Council my Lord of Northumberland remembred no such thing my Lord Marquiss of Hamilton remembred no such thing my Lord Treasurer remembred no such thing my Lord Cottington is very well assured he said no such thing for if he had he should have taken offence at it himself which he never did My Lords in the Third place He is pleased to mention That it was in a Debate Whether an Offensive or Defensive War and that then I should say The King had an Army in Ireland c. My Lords It falls out in time to be as I conceive to be about the 5 th of May last not many dayes sooner or later the Army of Ireland was not raised till Iune following So it seems I should tell the King a great untruth that he had an Army in Ireland which he might imploy for His Service before that Army was raised for it is a notorious thing and any of that Country knows that the Army was not raised till the Fifteenth of Iune as I remember Lastly In farther taking away of this Testimony I have proved it by a great many Witnesses beyond all exception that there was never any such intendment of the bringing this Army into England nay that the Design was quite otherwise and this hath been apparently cleared before your Lordships By the Testimony of my Lord of Northumberland Marquess of Hamilton Sir Thomas Lucas and Mr. Slingsby And might have been further justify'd by the Testimony of my Lord of Ormond President of Munster and Sir Iohn Burlace Master of the Ordnance in Ireland if they had been here to have been produced So that all these laid together the strong and clear proof on my part the producing of a single Witness which by the Proviso of 1 Edw. 6. cannot rise in Judgment against any man for High-Treason I trust all these laid together I shall appear to your Lordships clear and free from these two points whereupon they enforce me to be within the compass of Treason by the Statute alleadged The Third Treason that is laid to my Charge is upon the 27 th Article where Four Musquettiers being sent to Egton by Sergeant Major Yawerth to call for their Eight pence a day is prest upon me as a Levying of War upon the King and His People and to be High-Treason upon the Statute of 25 E. 3. These be wonderful Wars if we have no greater Wars then such as four men are able to raise by the Grace of God we shall not sleep very unquietly But How do they prove this to be done by me they produce to your Lordships the VVarrant of Sir William Pennyman but had no VVarrant at all of mine to shew Sir William Pennyman doth not alledge any VVarrant of mine to that purpose he speaks of a General VVarrant wherein I and the Deputy-Lieutenants joyne for the paying of the Fortnights pay as they call it and that is very true but that I should give VVarrant to Levy by Soldiers no such thing is proved no such thing is shewed no such thing is alleadged by Sir William Pennyman that best knew it and should do it in his own Justification if there were such a thing but on the other side I must humbly beseech your Lordships to mind you what a clear and full proofe I made thereof to you till you were weary though I think I could have continued it a year longer if need had been that there was nothing done by me in the Levying of the first Months pay or the second Fortnights pay but with full consent of the Country nothing being of Constraint nothing being of force put upon them The Second point was a VVarrant shewed to your Lordships or at least pretended from Sir Edward Osborne the Vice-President wherein he charges them to obey and persue the substance and direction of his VVarrant on pain of Death and this must likewise be laid to me My Lords I confess I have faults enough more then a good many though I trust neither so crying nor grievous as some would pretend them to be but Faults I have more then too many I need not take nor add to my self other Mens but whether this be a Fault or no I cannot undertake to Judge But certainly I am in no Fault for I was at when this VVarrant issued from Mr. Vice-President and I dare say he is a Gentleman so worthy and noble and so great a Lover of Truth that let him be examined upon Oath if he shall not absolutely clear me from Privity or Direction of it I so much rely on him that I will be thought Guilty before your Lordships for this Charge Now my Lords having gone over all that first part which I thought fit to apply my self to and that is Statute-Treason There is no Statute-Treasons in the whole Charge nor colour or pretence thereof save onely that of Newcastle which was waved In these my Lords I hope I am clear before your Lordships and sure I am they give me little disquiet for in good faith I am clear in my own poor Judgment Then comes in the second Condition of Treason in the charge and that is Constructive-Treason and it is laid down in the first Article of the General Charge For my
Lords I must tell you the First Articles exhibited are Grounds and Foundations whereupon the rest are gathered and to which they resort and apply themselves severally I do conceive my self in a manner by themselves clear of seven of these for they have in a manner relinquished Five of them So that the First Article is the main Article whereupon I must be touched and that is laid in the Charge thus That I have Trayterously endeavoured to subvert the Fundamental Lawes and Government of the Realmes of England and Ireland and have by Trayterous Words Councils and Actions declared the same and have advised His Majesty to Compel His Subjects to submit thereunto by force My Lords I must confess I have many times with my self considered with wonder at the Wisdom of our Ancestors that set the Pillars of this Monarchy with that singular Judgment and Providence that I have ever observed that so oft as either the Prerogative of the Crown or Liberty of the Subject Ecclesiastical or Temporal powers exceed those modest bounds set and appointed for them by the sobriety and moderation of former times the exercise of it over-turn'd to the Prejudice and to the Detriment of the Publick Weale all the Strings of this Government and Monarchy have been so perfectly tuned through the skill and attention of our Fore-Fathers that if you wind any of them any thing higher or let them lower you shall infallible interrupt the sweet accord that ought to be entertained of King and People With this Opinion I had the honour to sit many years in the Commons House and this Opinion I have carry'd along with me exactly and intirely for Fourteen years in the Kings Service ever Resolving in my heart Stare super vias antiquas to prove with equal care the Prerogative of the Crown and the Liberty of the Subject to Introduce the Laws of England into Ireland ever setting before my self a Joynt and Individual well-being of King and People for either they must be both or neither which made my Misfortune the greater to be now in my Gray Haires charged as an under-worker against that Government a Subverter of that Law I most affected and a Contriver against that Religion to the truth whereof I would Witness by the Sealing of it with my Blood My Lords As to the latter part concerning my Religion they have quitted me and I have nothing to answer to that because it is waved and I trust my Lords I shall clear my self in the first part concerning my being a Subverter of the Fundamental Laws that I shall stand clear to your Lordships Judgments in that Case My Lords This Subversion must be by words by Councils and by Actions in Ireland and in England My Lords I shall first give you an Accompt of the words wherewithall I am Charged forth of Ireland and the first words are in the third Article where I am Charged to have said That Ireland is a Conquered Nation and that the King may do with them as he pleaseth And to the City of Dublin That their Charters are nothing worth and bind the King no farther than he pleaseth These are the words Charged My Lords methinks it is very strange under favour that this can be made an Inducement to prove this Charge because I said That Ireland is a Conquer'd Nation therefore I endeavour to subvert the Fundamental Laws when I speak the Truth for certainly it is very true it was so My Lords under favour I remember very well there was as much said here at this Bar since we began and yet I dare well Swear and acquit him that spake it from intending to Subvert the Lawes For my Lords you were told and told truely That Ireland was a Conquered Nation and that it was Subordinate to England and God forbid that it should be otherwise and that they have received Lawes from the Conqueror My Lords the words testified by my Lord Gormonstone and Kilmalock to be spoken are not the words wherewith I am charged and so under favour I conceive cannot be brought to my prejudice as to this Tryal and they are words that are denied by me For my words concerning their Charters your Lordships remember very well I doubt not wherefore I said they were void For their misuse of them and that I told them so not with the intent to overthrow their Patents or Charters but to make them more conformable to those things that the State thought fit for encrease of Religion and Trade and encouraging and bringing English into that Town And that it was meant so and no otherwise Whatsoever was said it appeares by this their Charters were never touched nor infringed nor medled withal by me during the time I was in that Kingdom so that words so spoken and to such a purpose that they should go to prove such a Conclusion I conceive there is great difference betwixt those Premises and that Conclusion The next Charge for words in Ireland is in the Fourth Article where I am Charged to have said That I would neither have Law nor Lawyers Dispute or Question my Orders and that I would make the Earl of Cork and all Ireland know that as long as I had the Government there any Act of State should be as binding to the Subjects of that Kingdom as an Act of Parliament My Lords I humbly beseech your Lordships to give me leave to say for my self that these words of the Charge are onely Sworn by my Lord of Corke and no man else and his Lordship appeared a little mistaken the other day in one point on the Reading of an Order of the Council-Board for so it appears as I conceive so that for one single Witness and he the Party Aggrieved by these words to be the Man that must convince me I conceive your Lordships will not think that to stand with the ordinary Rules of proceeding For the rest to say Acts of State in Ireland should be Binding so long as they are not contrary to Law I confess I then conceived it had been no Offence for I thought them to be as binding being not contrary to Law but the Elder we grow the wiser we may grow if God give us the Grace and Attentions and so I trust I shall by these Gentlemen that have taught me to forbear those kind of Speeches hereafter My Lords These are all the Words charged against me for Ireland saving onely some things that I shall come to anon that is Charged upon me in one of the latter Articles concerning Scotland I say my Lords these are all the Words that have slipped from me in Seven years time having been well watched and observed as your Lordships may perswade your selves I have been But in Seven years time I say these are all the words brought to my Charge and in truth I conceive a wiser Man than my self might be forgiven for one Error or slip of his Tongue of that Nature in a years time seeing it is in
no greater measure God be praised than these are My Lords these being the words that passed from me in Ireland there are other words that are charged upon me to have been spoken in England but if your Lordships will give me leave though perhaps in no very good method I shall not fail to touch first or last the words in every Article The next Article then that I am charged withal for words is the second Article and these are the words that I should say concerning the Finger and the Loins My Lords I may alledge much new matter but I will observe your Lordships Order punctually by the Grace of God for what I may say in that case if it might be admitted I keep it to my self but the truth is they that do prove the words to be thus That I would make the little finger of the Law heavier than the Kings Loins they do not tell you the occasion of the Speech or what went before or what after for my Lords if they had told the occasion which methinks they should as well have remembred as the words it would plainly and clearly have appeared to your Lordships that Sir William Pennymans Testimony was most true for the occasion was such that to have said those words had been to have spoken against that to which I intended the discourse but speaking them as I said it makes very strong for that purpose to which I directed them which was to appease the Countrey and quiet the Discontents for having been double charged with the Knight-money and therefore it was not properly threatening them further to have provoked them My Lords you have Sir Will. Pennymans testimony that it was so and my profession who under favour will not speak an untruth to save my life I protest before God that I say I verily believe or else I will never speak it indeed and there it is they have proved it to have been said one way we another way we give the occasion of our Speech and disavow theirs and so we must leave it and howsoever these words so spoken can never be drawn as I humbly conceive as premises to prove their conclusions that therefore I am guilty of High Treason they have made me guilty of a foolish Word and that I confess and if they please I will confess it all the day long for I have been foolish all the days of my life and I hope hereafter I shall look unto my ways that I offend not with my Tongue for if I cannot rule it abroad I will rule it within doors else I will never stirr abroad but bound it so to my own business and affairs that I trust I shall give no offence The next Article that chargeth me with words is the 22 Article and these be words spoke in England The first part of them which concerns the bringing in of the Irish Army I have spoken to already but in the conclusion there are other words and shortly the said Earl of Strafford returned to England and to sundry persons declared his opinion to be That His Majesty should first try the Parliament here and if that did not supply him according to his occasions he might then use his Prerogative as he pleased to levy what he needed and that he should be acquitted both of God and Man if he took some other courses to supply himself though it were against the will of his Subjects My Lords as unto this I conceive the Charge is not proved by any Witness that hath been here produced against me and in truth my Lords I must needs say this under favour if it be an error in my Judgement I must humbly crave your Lordships pardon through the whole Cause I have not seen a weaker proof and if I had had time to have gotten my Witnesses out of Ireland I hope that should be proved and so clearly as nothing could be proved more but I must stand or fall to what I have proved and so I do my Lords the proof they offer for this as I conceive is the Testimony of my Lord Primate and his Testimony is That in some discourse betwixt us two touching Levying upon the Subject in case of imminent necessity he found me of opinion that the King might use his Prerogative as he pleased My Lords this is under favour a single Testimony it is of a discourse between him and me and there is not any other that witnesses any thing concerning it so that under favour My Lords I conceive this will not be sufficient to bring me any ways in danger of Treason being but a single Testimony and my Lords it is to be thought and to be believed and it were a great offence for any man to think otherwise that in this case any thing can please the King he is so Gracious and Good but what shall be Just and Lawful and then there is no doubt but so far as with Justice and Lawfulness he may use his Prerogative in case of imminent danger when ordinary means will not be admitted At most he saith it was but an opinion and opinions may make an Heretick but they shall not I trust make a Traitor The next is the Testimony of my Lord Conway and the words that his Lordship testifies are these That in case the King would not be otherwise supplyed by Subsidies he might seek means to help himself though it were against the will of his Subjects Truly my Lords if I should acknowledge these words I do not see how they can be any way Capital in my case but this again is but a single Testimony and there is no other that says it but himself and if there be a good sense given to them certainly the words may very well bear it for I think it is a very natural motion for any man to preserve himself though it be to the disliking of another and why a King should not do it as well as a Subject it is such a prerogative of Kings as I never yet heard of for I thought though they had been Gods on earth yet they are men and have affections as men and should preserve themselves being not only accountable for themselves to God Almighty but also for their Subjects whose Good and Benefit is wrapt up and involved in theirs and therefore the King ought more to regard his own preservation than the Common-wealth The Third is That Mr. Treasurer says that to his best remembrance I did say That if the Parliament should not succeed I would be ready to assist His Majesty any other way God forbid this should be any offence for to say so either in him or me for I will swear if it please you that he said so as well as I therefore God forbid it should endanger either of us both for my Lords to say I will serve the King any other way it is no other than what became a good and faithful servant to do always provided the way be good and lawful
which in this case is always to be admitted among persons of Honor and persons of Trust and therefore admitting it not any other way it was just and lawful and commendable in Mr. Treasurer and me for I vow to your Lordships we both said it and he as fully as I. But my Lords all these come very far short to prove the words of the Charge and this under favour is all the proof as I have taken that I should say these words before the Parliament The next words I am charged withal are in the 23 Article and those my Lords are that having tryed the affections of his people His Majesty was loose and absolved from all Rules of Goverment and was to do every thing that Power would admit and that His Majesty had tryed all wayes and was refused and should be acquitted both of God and man For the latter part that concerns the reducing of this Kingdom by the Irish Army I have answered already and therefore shall not need to repeat it My Lords mine Answer under favour to those words with your Lordships Noble permission must be thus That they are no way proved in the most material part of them by any Testimony that hath been offered I shall as near as I can repeat the proofs that were offered on this point for these Articles were brought in four or five together but I shall apply the proofs severally and distinctly The Testimony first given was the Testimony of the Lord of Bristol wherein his Lordship says That in a discourse there was difference betwixt his Lordship and me in some Tenents of ours To which I answered the other day that in discourse we speak not always the things we think but many times to gain from other mens arguments to strengthen me in my opinion I will seem to be of the contrary This is ordinary and familiar in all conversation and very honest and just so that albeit we seem to differ as we held it severally yet if the pulse of our hearts had been touched close both his and mine perhaps we should have found it one and the same Besides his Lordship said I disliked not the discourse we speaking of another Parliament only I said it was not convenient at that time and that the present dangers would not admit a remedy of so long consideration and that the King must provide for the Common-wealth Et salus populi suprema lex And truly my Lords I think that it is very hard any man should upon such a discourse have his words turned upon him and made use of to condemn him for High Treason My Lords I know you are so just that you would judge me as you would be judged your selves and whether any man that hears me would be content to have every word that falls in discourse betwixt man and man to be so severely interpreted I leave to every mans Breast what he finds in the closet of his own Heart and desire to be judged according to that My Lord went further and says I should say that the King was not to be mastered by the frowardness or disaffection of some particular men and conceives it be meant of the Parliament My Lords I say under favour these words are not within the Charge and therefore I am not to be accountable for them besides it is a single Testimony and by the proviso of that Statute cannot be made use of to the end and purpose for which they bring them My Lords the next Testimony offered for proving this Charge is the Testimony of my Lord of Newburgh and he sayes That at the Council-Board or in the Gallery I did say that seeing the Parliament had not supplied the King His Majesty might take other courses for the defence of the Kingdom Truly my Lords under favour who doubts but he might for my part I see not where the offence is for another man to have said thus for if another man will not help me may not I therefore help my self under favour I conceive there is no great weight nor crime in these words but in these likewise he stands a single Testimony there is no man that joyns with him in it and there is this in the whole Cause concerning the words that I think there is not any one thing wherein two concurr The next Testimony is that of the Earl of Holland and he sayes That at the Council-Board I said The Parliament having denyed the King he had advantage to supply himself other ways Truly my Lords I say still other wayes being lawful wayes and just wayes and such wayes as the goodness of the King can only walk in and in no other can he walk And therefore I conceive they be far from bringing it to so high a guilt as Treason and this likewise his Lordship expresses as the rest do singly on his own word as he conceives them and not on the particular word of any other person which is I say the case of every one that speaks in the business and therefore there being so great a difference in the Report and Conceiving of things it is very hard my words should be taken to my destruction when no Man agrees what they were My Lord of Northumberland is the next and he sayes I should say at a Committee for the Scotish affairs That in case of necessity and for defence and safety of the Kingdom every thing must be done for the preservation of the King and his People And this is the Testimony of my Lord in that point if I take any thing short it is against my Will I give you my Notes as far as I have them and further I cannot remember them But my Lords I say this brings it to that which is indeed the great part of my Defence in this case There is another agreed in this too and it is Mr Treasurer who sayes that in Argument for Offensive or Defensive War I should say That having tried all ways and being refused the King might in extream necessity provide for the safety of himself and his People I say this brings it to that which is principally for my Defence that must qualify if not absolutely free me from any blame and that is that which did proceed and follow after My Lords under favour I have heard some discourse of great weight and of great Authority and that is certain the Arguments that were used in the case of Ship-Money by those that Argued against the King in that Case say as much and will undertake if any man read those Arguments he shall find as much said there as I said at Council-Board for there you shall hear that there be certain Times and Seasons when Propriety ceases as in the case of Burning where a Man pulls down the next House to preserve the whole street from being set on fire In the case of building Forts on any mans Land where it is for the publique defence of the Kingdom in both these Cases Propriety
was an Unadvised Speech and he is a wise man and much wiser then my self that some time offends not with his Tongue And in truth my Lords though there be no Treason in it they are the most unwarranted words that appeare in the whole Proofe made against me In the 26th there are some words that I should speak to my Lord Cottington concerning a Foolish Pamphlet or Gazette which I then had in my hand and it is such a Toy in it self and all the Circumstances of it that I hold it not worth the mentioning but only that I would not forget any thing in the Proofes as near as I could and the Proofe is uncertain for onely one Man sayes it and the very words he cannot express Now he that shall Swear when he cannot express the Words his Testimony is but of small value and he is but a Single Proofe at best to disprove what is deposed by Sir William Parkhurst who sayes he was by yet heard not the Words And Cogam sayes he remembers not the words and so upon the matter there are two against one and the whole being so uncertain I conceive it is of very little moment in your Lordships Judgments My Lords These are as near as I can gather all that are charged as unto words spoken either in England or Ireland Councils other then these I am not charged withall and so there remains nothing but my Actions and if I can free them as well as I have freed the Words I conceive then under favour I have fully Answered all that hath been objected against me My Lords The first of these is the Fifth Article in the Case of Sentence of the Council of War against my Lord Mountnorris and the Sentence of the Council of War against Denwit For that of my Lord Mountnorris I have shewed plainly and clearly to your Lordships that I was no Judge in the Cause but a Party and therefore not Responsible for any Judgment given against his Lordship I gave no Vote and so consequently am not to Answer for any Guilt if there were any which under favour I conceive since all Martial Law is Adjudged to be against the Law I may be of another Opinion but formerly conceiving that that might have stood with the Law I might say something more for the Justification of it then now I do but hower I was no Party They say he was a Peer and it is very true but as he was a Peer so he was a Captain of the Army and in this Case we consider Men as Members of the Army not as Peers And if a Peer will not submit himself to an Officer of the Army he must submit himself to the Order of the Army Besides I say it was intended only as a Discipline to him the better to remember him to govern his Tongue afterwards towards other Men and that there was no more Prejudice fell upon him by it but two or three days Imprisonment so there was no great Animosity in the business besides it appeared to your Lordships that two or three dayes after we writ to the King and obtained his Pardon so that I conceive the Inconvenience was not very great to him nor the Proceedings such as should make it unpardonable or Criminal in them that gave Sentence upon him whereof I was none For that other concerning Denwitt your Lordships may remember he was found Guilty of Stealing a Quarter of Beef and for Running from his Collours and was formerly Burnt in the Hand for that he should be Proceeded against another way But falling out at that time when Five hundred Men were going over to Carlisle and they being unwilling to be put to Sea we were inforced to those proceedings for the preventing of further Mischief And there is another thing that the Martial-Law hath been alway in Force and executed in all times in Ireland and never so sparingly as in my time for this is the only Man that suffered all the time I had the Honour of the Government And I dare Appeal to them that know the Country Whether in former times many Men have not been committed and Executed by Martial-Law by the Deputies Warrant that were not Thieves and Rebels but such as went up and down the Country if they could not give Account of themselves the Provost-Martial by direction of the Deputies using in such Case to Hang them up I dare say there are Hundreds of Examples in this kind so that as to that I do not Justifie it But I say it is a Pardonable Fault and that others are of Course Pardoned for it And I trust that what falls of Course shall not be laid upon me as High-Treason or conducing to it The next is the Sixth Article and that is in the Case of Richard Rollston and therein I am said to have Subverted the Fundamental Laws by executing a Power and a Jurisdiction which was not Warranted by Law upon a Paper Petition putting out of Possession of his Freehold and Inheritance my Lord Mountnorris My Lords That Sentence will appear to your Lordships to be no more then the relieving a Poor Man in case of Equity and it is proved to you to be a Power that hath been formerly practised by the Deputies and I humbly conceive the Decree is just So that my Lords I must Confess it is something strange to me That having the Kings Letter to Warrant me in the Course of Proceedings and having the Power of former Deputies in like Case and doing no more therein then the Lord Chancellor by the very self-same Law should do in other places And that which should be done by the Chancellor should be Innocent and Just yet become High-Treason when done by me is a thing I understand not The next is the Case of Tonnres and that is waved by them and well may it be for it was in a Case of Plantation there was no Possession altered and it is fully within the Book of the Kings Instructions The next is in the Case of Sir Iohn Gifford against the Lord Viscount Loftus which they have Waved and well they may for it was grounded on a Letter from the King Commanding it to be heard by the Deputy and Council which is clearly within the Instructions and hath been since heard by the King and Council-Board and by them Confirmed for a Just Decree The next is the Case of my Lord of Kildare and that they may well Wave too the Proceedings being grounded upon a Letter from His Majesty and nothing done but in persuance of an Award between the Lord Digbyes House and that House of Kildare made by King Iames. The next is the Lady Hibbots Case and that was Relief given to Poor Men circumvented by Practice to the Prejudice of himself My Lords I had Power to hear that Cause and all Causes of that Nature by the King's Letter and according to the Practice of former Deputies And I conceive it will appear when it comes to
but only the Estimate of a Merchant and how far your Lordships will be guided by the Estimate of a Merchant I known not but I have had Trial of some of them and their Estimates never hold for they have alwayes told me I shall gain much and when I came to the point I gained nothing and if Sir George Ratcliffe should be Sworn to the Point he should say confidently that we are Fourscore and six thousand out of Purse and when he came out of Ireland but Fourscore thousand pounds received and this is the Profit Estimated by the great Merchants at a Hundred and Forty thousand pounds a year But at the worst it is but a Monopoly and a Monopoly of the best condition because it was begun by a Parliament I have seen many Monopolies question'd in Parliament and many overthrown in Parliament but I never heard a Monopoly charged for a Treason My Lords The next is the 13th Article and that is concerning the Flax business For that my Lords if I had thought it any way concerning me I could have cleared it in a very great measure But I had no private Interest in the business much less of private profit but onely an endeavour and desire to bring in the Trade of Linnen-Cloth to that Kingdom which would be much advantage to both Kingdoms and no prejudice to this Kingdom which a Woollen Trade would have been if set up these And the Prolcamation when it was found not so well liking to the People was called in of our own accord before it was question'd and so laid aside and given over For any matter of private Benefit you have no Witness but Crokay a Fellow brought out of Prison Here is but a single Witness and a sorry one a Fellow who by misbehaving and misusing the trust committed to him was turned out and upon the turning of him out the Proclamation was absolutely called in and now he comes to be a Witness being himself the onely offended in the Cause But I beseech your Lordships to think I have not lived with so mean a heart in the World that I should look to gain Four Nobles more or less upon a Cart Load of Flax It is very well known my thoughts have carryed me free enough from gaining so poor and petty a matter as that is I know nothing in the World of it no more than the man in the Moon but when it comes to be heard your Lordships will find me extreame pure in that for I thank God I have clear hands I assure you The 14th is waved by them concerning an Unlawful Oath given to Masters and Officers of Ships and it might very well be waved for I conceive it to be Warranted by the Law Sure I am it is both the Practice of England and Ireland and hath alwayes and at all times been practised and used and is onely for the preventing of Fraud and Deceipt in Merchants by not paying the Kings Duties and Customes The 15th is Answered already I hope The 16th doth Charge upon me certain Propositions I made before I went into Ireland And in good Faith my Lords you may see how short-sighted men may be to their own Actions for I did very well believe I should never have reaped any thing from those Propositions but Thanks I am sure they were well received then when they were offered to His Majesty and the Council and I must truely Confess I never thought they should be objected against me as a Fault My Lords The Proposition was That no Man should be allowed to Complain of Injustice or Oppression in Ireland unless he first addressed himself to the Deputy My Lords there was no Original Intent but onely to prevent Clamours and Unjust Vexations of the Kings Ministers there that after men had received Judgment of the Kings Courts they might not presently come and by Clamours call over a Chief Justice or a Chancellor or President to Answer here and be at charge of five or six hundred pounds unless they acquaint the Deputy with it that they might be righted in the place and this is Charged against me as a great Crime Truely my Lords I shall Confess and Amend any thing and trust other Judgments rather than mine own but I see not how this can Charge me as intending to subvert the Laws of the Land but rather to preserve them The other concernes a Proclamation That none shall depart the Kingdom without License My Lords for that I have shewed that no man out of that Kingdom can come without License but upon very great Penalties I have shewed likewise it was the desire of their own Agents some 15 or 16 years since That there might be such a Restraint and none might come over without License I have shewed you likewise the Instructions to my Lord of Faulkland by which he was Commanded in persuance of that Desire that none should come over without his License I have shewed the express Command of His Majesty to me to have it so I have shewed you likewise the Reasons of State why it should be so to prevent that practice and Intelligence which might otherwise arise betwixt them of that Nation serving under Tir-Connell and O Neale and likewise to prevent the going over and transplanting the Prime Nobility and Gentry to Seminaries and other such places there to be brought up and therefore in reason of State it is a Restraint and ought so to be But having these grounds of Law Warrant Practice Former Instruction and all Why this should be brought to me in particular Charge to Convince me of endeavouring the Subversion of the Laws I must submit to your Lordships My Lords There is in the latter part of this another Charge concerning the Sentenceing of one Parry who was Sentenced as I conceive very Justly and I have no more to answer for in that Sentence then any of the rest having but a single Voice and that I should answer for all I confess is something hard But there is no manner of Testimony in the World in this save the Testimony of Parry himself Now if Parry the Man offended his Testimony shall be taken against the Judge I know no Man can be safe and other Testimony is not offered and therefore I trust that that will easily fall off of it self The 17th is likewise waved and is in Truth of no great Consequence one way or other and therefore I shall give no other Answer to it It was well waved and had been as well left out having no great matter in it The 18th is likewise waved but it is that which sticks very heavy upon me and wherein I find my self as much afflicted as in any one part of the Charge For my Lords here I am Charged up and down to endeavour to draw upon my self a Dependance of the Papists in both Kingdomes of Ireland and England and that I have during the time of my Government restored diverse Mass-Houses in Dublin and elsewhere
that have been by Precedent Deputies taken away I am likewise Charged to have drawn to my self a Dependence of the Irish Army Eight Thousand all Papists and likewise to have miscarried my self in a Commission intrusted with me before my going into Ireland concerning Compositions for Recusants This is a very heavy and grievous Charge and hath raised a great deal of Ill Opinion against me in the World to be a Fafourer and Contriver with Papists and I know not whom against the Religion I profess a Greater and Fouler Crime there cannot be against God or Man and yet this goes in Print all over the World and when it comes to the Point here is no Proof nor any part of the Charge made good And therefore since it is not made good by the Charge I humbly desire I may be vindicated in your Lordships Noble Opinions and the Opinions of all that hear me that I am in my Religion what I ought to be and that which I will Dye in and Maintain against all the World And I am so far from Contriving any thing to the hinderance of it that if God give me life I will serve it and prevent any inconvenience to it and my Religion and Duty to God is so Dear and precious to me that there is nothing in this World but I shall lay it down as Straw and Stubble under my feet and trample upon it rather then in any kind forfeit that but in the mean time I suffer and must be content My Lords The next is the 19th Article and that was for framing a New and Unusual Oath which the Scots did take in Ireland to give Pledges of their Allegiance to the King I have shewed you for that that the Oath was framed by the Kings express Command in Ianuary before the Oath was given which was I think in May. And I did then humbly conceive it lawful for me so to do being onely to take from them a Pledge of their Allegiance to the King I confess I conceived such an Oath might have been lawfully Administred to the People and shewed that the same Oath was Administred here in England to those of that Nation I shewed that it was taken in Ireland voluntarily And I humbly represent to your Lordships the time when this Oath was required when the King and both the Armies were in the Field lodged not far from one another And whereas it is said it should oblige the Clergy in Ecclesiastical Matters if your Lordships call to mind the very Oath it self cleares that Point requiring onely a Temporal Obedience and Allegiance in a time of that Danger and Distraction given by the Kings own Command and to no other purpose And my Lords the Proofes are nothing at all on the matter Sir Iames Mountgomery tells you a Tale not much Material nor Mr. Maxwell nor Sir Iohn Clotworthy there is nothing at all in it concerning Treason Stewarts Sentence remains onely to be Answered in this Article for that I conceive it was Justly and Fairly given as I then conceived I was one of the rest and nothing was intended by that Decree but his Reformation and when he had pleased to have taken the Oath he might have been released of the Sentence and sent home again quietly The next is the 20th Article Wherein I am Charged to be a Provoker and Incendiary of a War against His Majesties Subjects of the Scotch Nation and that I should say of them They were Rebels and Traitors and being about to come into England that I should say I would root out of the Kingdom the Scotish Nation Root and Branch My Lords I shall need no more to say in this for my being an Incendiary I think by the Proofe it hath been clearly made appear to your Lordships that I gave no Opinion but such as others did in the like Case It is proved by my Lord Traquair and my Lord Treasurer and might have been proved by many more if it had been needful For the Words that I should say The Rooting out the Scots Root and Branch They are onely testify'd by one single Witness Salmon the School-Master Swears it and no man else but he and I hope my Lords that when your Lordships do call to mind how he is Crost by his Fellow Witness Iohn Loftus your Lordships will be satisfied he Swears I will persecute them to the Blood and Root them out Root and Branch and I cannot tell what But Iohn Loftus said indeed that I said I hope that such of the Scotish Nation as would not submit to the Ecclesiastical Government I would root out stock and branch a wonderful difference between these two But my Lords it was testified by Mr. Secretary Manwaring then present that I neither spoke the one nor the other but as in my Answer I did truely and faithfully deliver it I said that unless they would take that Oath of Allegiance and secure the King of their Allegiance in that point I hope I should not see any of them stay in that Kingdom that refused it and there is no Proofe in the World but the School-Master and I hope your Lordships will not take him to be a good and valid proof to convince me in this Case being a person of no greater Quality and crossed by his fellow Witness For my self I do absolutely say I was so far from wishing ill to that Nation or any Dissension or Division between them that I never desired other in my heart and soul but a firm Peace through the Kings Dominions My Counsels tended to that and if I might seem to begin in a contrary way yet the last resort was to bring all to quietness and so that it should be without Blood And I dare say there be them that heard me say it many a time in the Kings Council That the King should be in nothing so much sparing and tender as to draw any Blood in that Quarrel I dare say many that heard it will Justifie me in it And if your Lordships will give me leave I do think I have something that might procure your Lordships beliefe that it was so for at that time my Fortune though now by Misfortune it be mean enough was such as I needed not desire to shuffle the Cards and deale a new and especially when nothing was to be got but Blows and that I trust will be an Argument to your Lordships that nothing was desired by me so much as Peace and that under Gods goodness and the Protection and Benefit of His Majesties Scepter I might enjoy the little Estate my Ancestors left me for it is certainly true whatever the World may think to the contrary it is very little better from what my Father left me something it is and the most part of the Improvement of it was before I came to serve the King and yet I have had more from the King then I deserved in all kinds and all the whole service of my Life were it
these now there remains that other Second Treason that I should be guilty of endeavouring to Subvert the Fundamental Lawes of the Land in the first of those Seven Articles My Lords That those should now be Treason together that are not Treason in any one part and Accumulatively to come upon me in that kind and where one will not do it of it self yet woven up with others it shall do it Under favour my Lords I do not conceive that there is either Statute-Law or Common-Law that hath declared this endeavouring to Subvert the Fundamental Lawes to be High Treason I say neither Statute-Law nor Common-Law Written that I could hear of and I have been as diligent to enquire of it as I could be And your Lordships will believe I had reason so to do And sure it is a very hard thing I should here be question'd for my Life and Honor upon a Law that is not Extant that Cannot be Shewed There is a Rule that I have read out of my Lord Cook Non apparentibus non existentibus eadem est Ratio Iesu My Lords Where hath this Fire lay'n all this while so many hundred years together that no Smoak should appear till it burst out now to consume me and my Children Hard it is and extream hard in my Opinion that a Punishment should Precede the Promulgation of a Law that I should be Punished by a Law Subsequent to the Act done I most humbly beseech your Lordships take that into Consideration for certainly it were better a great deale to live under no Law but the Will of Man and Conform our selves in Humane Wisdom as well as we could and to Comply with that Will then to live under the Protection of a Law as we think and then a Law should be made to punish us for a Crime precedent to the Law then I conceive no Man living could be safe if that should be admitted My Lords it is hard in another respect that there should be no Tokens set upon this Offence by which we may know it no manner of Token given no Admonition by which we might be aware of it If I pass down the Thames in a Boat and run and Split my self upon an Anchor if there be not a Buoy to give me warning the Party shall give me Damages but if it be Marked out then it is at my own peril Now my Lords Where is the Mark set upon this Crime Where is the Token by which I should discover if it be not Marked if it lie under-Water and not above there is no Humane Providence can prevent the Destruction of a Man Presently and Instantly Let us then lay aside all that is Humane Wisdom let us rely onely upon Divine Revelation for certainly nothing else can preserve us if you will Condemn us before you tell us where the Fault is that we may avoid it My Lords may your Lordships be pleased to have that regard to the Peerage of England as never to suffer your selves to be put upon those Moot-points upon such Constructions and Interpretations and Strictness of Law as these are when the Law is not clear nor known If there must be a Tryal of Wits I do most humbly beseech your Lordships to consider that the Subject may be of something else then of your Lives and your Honors My Lords We find that in the Primitive time on the Sound and Plain Doctrine of the blessed Apostles they brought in their Books of Curious Art and burnt them My Lords it will be likewise under favour as I humbly conceive Wisdom and Providence in your Lordships for your selves and posterities for the whole Kingdom to cast from you into the Fire those Bloody and Misterious Volumes of Constructive and Arbitrary Treasons and to betake your selves to the Plain Letter of the Statute that tells you where the Crime is that so you may avoid it and let us not my Lords be ambitious to be more Learned in those Killing Arts then our Fore-fathers were before us My Lords It is now full Two hundred and forty years since any Man ever was Touch'd to this Height upon this Crime before my self We have lived my Lords happily to our selves at Home we have lived Gloriously Abroad to the World let us be content with that which our Fathers left us and let us not awake those Sleepy Lyons to our own Destruction by Ratling up of a Company of Records that have lay'n for so many Ages by the Wall Forgotten or Neglected My Lords There is this that troubles me extreamly least it should be my Misfortune to all the rest for my other Sins not for my Treasons that my Precedent should be of that Disadvantage as this will be I fear in the Consequence of it upon the Whole KINGDOM My Lords I beseech you therefore that you will be pleased seriously to consider it and let my particular Case be so looked upon as that you do not through me Wound the Interest of the Common-Wealth For howsoever those Gentlemen at the Bar say They Speak for the Common-Wealth and they believe so yet under favour in this particular I believe I Speak for the Common-Wealth too and that the Inconveniencies and Miseries that will follow upon this will be such as it will come within a few years to that which is exprest in the Statute of Henry the Fourth it will be of such a Condition that no Man shall know what to do or what to say Do not my Lords put greater Difficulty upon the Ministers of State then that with Chearfulness they may Serve the King and the State for if you will Examine them by every Grain or every little Weight it will be so heavy that the publick Affaires of the Kingdom will be left waste and no man will meddle with them that hath Wisdom and Honor and Fortune to lose My Lords I have now troubled your Lordships a great deal longer then I should have done were it not for the Interest of those PLEDGES that a Saint in Heaven left me I would be loth my Lords here his Weeping stopt him what I forfeit for my self it is nothing but I confess that my Indiscretion should Forfeit for them it wounds me very deeply You will be pleased to pardon my Infirmity something I should have said but I see I shall not be able and therefore I will leave it And now my Lords for my Self I thank God I have been by his Good Blessing towards me taught That the Afflictions of this present Life are not to be compared with that Eternal Weight of Glory that shall be Revealed for us hereafter And so my Lords even so with all Humility and with all Tranquility of Mind I do submit my self clearly and freely to your Judgments and whether that Righteous Judgment shall be to Life or to Death Te Deum Laudamus Te Dominum Confitemur THE SPEECH OR DECLARATION Of John Pym Esq MY LORDS MAny dayes have been spent in maintenance of the
England If but any one of these Six Considerations hold the Commons conceive that upon the whole matter they had good cause to pass the Bill My Lords For the first of Levying War I shall make bold to read the case to your Lordships before I speak to it It 's thus The Earl did by Warrant under his Hand and Seal give Authority to Robert Savil a Sergeant at Arms and his Deputies to Sesse such numbers of Soldiers Horse and Foot of the Army in Ireland together with an Officer as the Sergeant should think fit upon His Majesties Subjects of Ireland against their Will this Warrant was granted by the Earl to the end to compell the Subjects of Ireland to submit to the unlawful Summons and Orders made by the Earl upon Paper Petitions exhibited to him in case of private interest between party and party this Warrant was executed by Savil and his Deputies by sessing of Soldiers both Horse and Foot upon divers of the Subjects of Ireland against their Wills in warlike manner and at divers times the Soldiers continued upon the parties upon whom they were sessed and wasted their Goods until such time as they had submitted themselves unto those Summons and Orders My Lords This is a Levying War within the Statute of 25th Edw. 3. The words of the Statute are If any man do Levy War against our Lord the King in His Realm this is declared Treason I shall endeavour in this to make clear to your Lordships 1. What shall be a Levying of War in respect of the motive or cause of it 2. What shall be said a Levying of War in respect of the action or thing done 3. And in the third place I shall apply them to the present case It will be granted in this levying of War that Forces may be raised and likewise used in Warlike manner and yet no levying of War within the Statute that is when the Forces are raised and employed upon private ends either of revenge or interest Before this Statute in Edw. the 1. time the Title of a Castle was in difference between the Earls of Hereford and Gloucester for the maintaining of the possession on the one side and gaining of it on the other Forces were raised on either side of many hundred men they marched with Banners displayed one against another In the Parliament in the 20th year of Edward 1. this was adjudged only Trespass and either of the Earls Fined 1000 Marks apiece After the Statute in Hillary Term in the 15th year of Edw. the 3. in the Kings-Bench Rot. 3. Nicholas Huntercome in Warlike manner with 40 men armed amongst other weapons with Guns so antient as appears by that Record they were did much spoil in the Mannor of the Abby of Dorchester in the County of Oxford this was accounted no Treason and so it hath been held by the Judges That if one or more Town-ship upon pretence of saving their Commons do in a forcible and warlike manner throw in inclosures this is only a Riot no Treason The words of the Statute 25 Edw. 3. clear this point that if any man ride Armed openly or secretly with men at Arms against any other to kill and rob or to detain him until he hath made Fine and Ransome for his deliverance this is declared not to be Treason but Felony or Trespass as the Case shall require all the printed Statutes which have it covertly or secret are misprinted for the words in the Parliament Roll as appears in the 17th are Discovertment on Secretement Open or Secretly So that my Lords in this of Levying War the Act is not so much to be considered but as in all other Treasons and Felonies quo animo with what intent and purpose My Lords If the end be considerable in Levying War it may be said that it cannot be a War unless against the King for the words of the Statute are If any man Levy War against the King That these words extend further than to the person of the King appears by the words of the Statute which in the beginning declares it to be Treason to compass and imagine the death of the King and after other Treasons this is to be declared to be Treason to Levy War against the King If Levying of War extend no further than to the Person of the King these words of the Statute are to no purpose for then the first Treason of compassing the Kings death had fully included it before because that he which Levies War against the Person of the King doth necessarily compass his death It 's a War against the King when intended for alteration of the Laws or Government in any part of them or to destroy any of the Great Officers of the Kingdom This is a Levying War against the King 1. Because the King doth protect and maintain the Laws in every part of them and the great Officers to whose care he hath in his own stead delegated the execution of them 2. Because they are the Kings Laws he is the Fountain from whence in their several Channels they are derived to the Subject all our Indictments run thus Trespasses laid to be done Contra pacem Domini Regis the Kings Peace for exorbitant offences though not intended against the King's Person against the King his Crown and Dignity My Lords this construction is made good by divers Authorities of great weight ever since the Statute of 25th of Edw. 3. downwards In R. the 2. time Sir Tho. Talbot conspired the death of the Dukes of Glocester and Lancaster and some other of the Peers for the effecting of it he had caused several People in the County of Chester to be Armed in Warlike manner in Assemblies in the Parliament held in the 17th year of R. 2. N o 20. Sir Thomas Talbot being accused of High Treason for this It 's there declared insomuch as one of them was Lord High Steward of England and the other High Constable that this was done in destruction of the Estates of the Realm and of the Laws of the Kingdom and therefore adjudged Treason and the Judgement sent down into the Kings Bench as appears Easter Term in the 17th year of R. 2. in the Kings Bench Rot. 16th These two Lords had appeared in the 11th of R. 2 in maintainance of the Act of Parliament made in the year before one of them was of the Commissioners appointed by Parliament and one of the Appealors of those who would have overthrown it The Duke of Lancaster likewise was one of the Lords that was to have been Indicted of Treason for endeavouring the maintenance of it and therefore conspiring of their deaths is said to be in destruction of their Laws This there is declared to be Treason that concerned the Person of the King and Common-wealth In that great insurrection of the Villains and meaner People in Richard the II. time they took an Oath Quod Regi Communibus fidelitatem servarent to be true
at Plough in the Parish of Ofley in the County of Hertford Bernard asked Balshal what news he told him that the news was That King Richard the Second was alive in Scotland which was false for he was dead and that by Midsummer next he would come into England Bernard asked him What were best to be done Balshal answered Get Men and go to King Richard In Michaelmas Term in the Third year of Hen. 4th in the Kings Bench Rot. 4. This advice of War adjudged Treason In Queen Mary's time Sir Nicholas Throckmorton conspired with Sir Thomas Wyat to Levy War within this Realm for alteration in Religion he joyned not with him in the execution This conspiracy alone declared to be Treason by all the Judges this was after the Statute of Queen Mary so much insisted upon That Parliament ended in October this opinion was delivered the Easter Term following and is reported by Justice Dyer fol. 98. It 's true Sir Thomas Wyat afterwards did Levy War Sir Nicholas Throckmorton he only conspired This adjudged Treason One Story in Queen Elizabeths time practised with Foreigners to levy War within this Kingdom nothing done in persuance of the practice The intent without any adhering to enemies of the Queen or other cause adjudged Treason and he executed thereupon It 's true my Lords that year 13 Eliz. by Act of Parliament it 's made Treason to intend the levying of War this Case was adjudged before the Parliament The Case was adjudged in Hillary Term the Parliament begun not till the April following This my Lords is a Case judged in point that the practising to levy War though nothing be done in execution of it is Treason Object It may be Objected That in these Cases the Conspiring being against the whole Kingdom included the Queen and was a compassing Her destruction as well as of the Kingdoms here the Advice was to the King Answ. The Answer is first That the Warrant was unknown to His Majesty that was a Machination of War against the People and Lawes wherein His Majesties Person was engaged for Protection Secondly That the Advice was to His Majesty aggravates the Offence it was an Attempt which was the Offence it was an Attempt not only upon the Kingdom but upon the Sacred Person and His Office too himself was hostis patriae he would have made the Father of it so to Nothing more unnatural nor more dangerous than to offer the King Poyson to drink telling Him that it is a Cordial is a passing of His death the Poyson was repelled there was an Antidote within the Malice of the giver beyond expression The perswading of Foreigners to invade the Kingdom hold no proportion with this Machination of War against the Law or Kingdom is against the King they cannot be severed My Lords If no actual War within the Statute if the Counselling of War if neither of these single Acts be Treason within the Statute The Commons in the next place have taken it into consideration what the addition of his other Words Counsels and Actions do operate in the Case and have conceived that with this Addition all being put together that he is brought within the Statute of 25 E. 3. The words of the Statute are If any Man shall Compass or Imagine the death of the King the words are not If any Man shall plot or Counsel the Death of the King No my Lords they go further than to such things as are intended immediately directly and determinatively against the Life and Person of the King they are of a larger extent to compass is to do by Circuit to Consult or Practice another thing directly which being done may necessarily produce this effect However it be in the other Treasons within this Statute yet in this by the very words there is room left for constructions for necessary inferences and consequences What hath been the Judgment and Practice of former times concerning these words of compassing the Kings Death will appear to your Lordships by some Cases of Attainders upon these words One Owen in K. Iames His time in the 13 th year of His Reign at Sandwich in Kent spake these words That K. Iames being Excommunicated by the Pope may be killed by any Man which killing is no Murther Being asked by those he spake to how he durst maintain so Bloody an Assertion Answered That the matter was not so heinous as was supposed for the King who is the Lesser is concluded by the Pope who is the Greater and as a Malefactor being Condemned before a Temporal Judge may be delivered over to be Executed So the King standing Convicted by the Popes Sentence of Excommunication may justly be slaughtered without fault for the Killing of the King is the Execution of the Popes Supreame Sentence as the other is the Execution of the Law For this Judgment of High Treason was given against him and Execution done My Lords there is no clear intent appearing that Owen desired the thing should be done onely Arguments that it might be done this is a Compassing there is a clear Endeavour to corrupt the Judgment to take off the Bonds of Conscience the greatest security of the Kings Life God forbid saith one of better Judgement then he that I should stretch out my hand against the Lords Annointed No saith he the Lord doth not forbid it you may for these Reasons lawfully kill the King He that denies the Title to the Crown and plots the means of setting it upon anothers head may do this without any direct or immediate desiring the death of Him that wears it yet this is Treason as was adjudged in the 10th of Hen. 7. in these of Burton and in the Duke of Norfolkes Case 13 Eliz. This is a compassing of His Death for there can no more be two Kings in one Kingdom then two Suns in the Firmament he that conceives a Title counts it worth venturing for though it cost him his life he that is in possession thinks it as well worth the keeping Iohn Sparhauk in King Henry the Fourth's time meeting too men upon the way amongst other talk said That the King was not rightful King but the Earl of March and that the Pope would grant Indulgencies to all that could assist the Earles Title and that within half a year there would be no Liveries nor Cognizances of the King that the King had not kept promise with the People but had laid Taxes upon them In Easter-Terme in the third year of Henry the Fourth in the Kings Bench Rot. 12. this adjudged Treason this denying the Title with Motives though not implyedly of Action against it adjudged Treason this is a compassing the Kings death How this was a compassing of the Kings Death is declared in the Reasons of the Judgment that the words were spoken with an intent to withdraw the affections of the People from the King and to excite them against him that in the end they might rise up against
him in mortem destructionem of the King My Lords in this Judgment and others which I shall cite to your Lordships it appears that it is a compassing the Kings death by Words to endeavour to draw the Peoples hearts from the King to set discord between the King and them whereby the People should leave the King should rise up against Him to the death and destruction of the King The Cases that I shall cite prove not onely that it is Treason but what is sufficient Evidence to make this good Upon a Commission held the 18th year of Ed. 4. in Kent before the Marquess of Dorset and others an Indictment was preferred against Iohn Awater of High Treason in the Forme before-mentioned for Words which are entred in the Indictment Sub hac forma That he had been servant to the Earl of Warwick that though he were dead the Earl of Oxford was alive and should have the Government of part of that Country That Edward whom you call King of England was a false Man and had by Art and Subtilty slain the Earl of Warwick and the Duke of Clare his Brother without any cause who before had been both of them attainted of High Treason My Lords This Indictment was Returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity-Terme in the Eighteenth year of Edward the Fourth and in Easter-Terme the Two and twentieth of Edward the Fourth he was outlawed by the stay of the outlawry so long as it seemes the Judges had well advised before whether it were Treason or not At the same Session Thomas Heber was Indicted of Treason for these words That the last Parliament was the most simple and insufficient Parliament that ever had been in England That the King was gone to live in Kent because that for the present he had not the Love of the Citizens of London nor should he have it for the future That if the Bishop of Bath and Wells were dead the Archbishop of Canterbury being Cardinal of England would immediately lose his head This Indictment was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity-Terme in the 18th year of Edward the 4th afterwards there came a Privy-Seal to the Judge to respit the Proceedings which as it should seem was to the intent the Judges might advise of the Case for afterwards he is outlawed of High-Treason upon this Indictment These words are thought sufficient evidence to prove these several Indictments that they were spoken to withdraw the Peoples Affections from the King to excite them against Him to cause Risings against Him by the People in mortem destructionem of the King Your Lordships are pleased to consider That in all these Cases the Treason was for words onely words by private persons and in a more private manner but once spoken and no more onely amongst the People to excite them against the King My Lords here are Words Counsels more then Words and Actions too not onely to disaffect the people to the King but the King likewise towards the People not once but often not in Private but in places most Publick not by a Private Person but by a Counsellor ofState a Lord Lieutenant a Lord-President a Lord-Deputy of Ireland 1. To His Majesty that the Parliament had denyed to supply Him a Slander upon all the Commons of England in their Affections to the King and Kingdom in refusing to yield timely supply for the Necessities of the King and Kingdom 2. From thence that the King was loose and absolved from Rules of Government and was to do every thing that Power would admit My Lords more cannot be said they cannot be aggravated whatever I should say would be in Diminution 3. Thence you have an Army in Ireland you may employ to reduce this Kingdom To Counsel a King not to Love His People is very Unnatural it goes higher to hate them to Malice them in his heart the highest expressions of Malice to destroy them by War These Coales they were cast upon His Majesty they were blown they could not kindle in that Breast Thence my Lords having done the utmost to the King he goes to the people At York the Country being met together for Justice at the Open Assises upon the Bench he tells them speaking of the Justices of the Peace that they were all for Law nothing but Law but they should find that the Kings Little Finger should be heavier then the Loynes of the Law as they shall find My Lords Who speaks this to the people a Privy-Counsellor this must be either to traduce His Majesty to the people as spoken from Him or from himself who was Lord-Lieutenant of the County and President intrusted with the Forces and Justice of those parts that he would Employ both this way Add my Lords to His Words there the Exercising of an Arbitrary and Vast Jurisdiction before he had so much as Instructions or Colour of Warrant Thence we carry him into Ireland there he Represented by his place the Sacred Person of His Majesty First There at Dublin the Principal City of that Kingdom whither the Subjects of that Country came for Justice in an Assembly of Peers and others of greatest Rank upon occasion of a Speech of the Recorder of that City touching their Franchises and Regal Rights he tells them That Ireland was a Conquered Nation and that the King might do with them what he pleased Secondly Not long after in the Parliament 10 Car. in the Chair of State in full Parliament again That they were a Conquer'd Nation and that they were to expect Laws as from a Conqueror before the King might do with them what He would now they were to expect it that he would put this Power of a Conqueror in Execution The Circumstances are very Considerable in full Parliament from himself in Cathedra to the Representative Body of the whole Kingdom The Occasion adds much when they desir'd the Benefit of the Laws and that their Causes and Suites might be determined according to Law and not by himself at his Will and Pleasure upon Paper Petitions Thirdly Upon like occasion of Pressing the Laws and Statutes that he would make an Act of Council-Board in that Kingdom as Binding as an Act of Parliament Fourthly He made his Words good by his Actions Assumed and Exercised a Boundless and Lawless Jurisdiction over the Lives Persons and Estates of His Majesties Subjects procured Judgment of Death against a Peer of that Realm Commanded another to be Hanged this was accordingly Executed both in times of High Peace without any Process or Colour of Law Fifthly By Force of a long time he Seized the Yarn and Flax of the Subjects to the Starving and undoing of many thousands besides the Tobacco business and many Monopolies and Unlawful Taxes forced a New Oath not to dispute His Majesties Royal Commands determined Mens Estates at his own Will and Pleasure upon Paper-Petitions to himself forced Obedience to these not only by Fines and Imprisonment but likewise by the Army sessed
ad fidem legem Angliae The Irish without the Pale were enemies always either in open act of Hostility or upon Leagues and Hostages given for securing the Peace and therefore as here in England we had our Marches upon the frontiers in Scotland and Wales so were there Marches between the Irish and English Pale where the Inhabitants held their Lands by this tenure to defend the Countrey against the Irish as appears in the close Roll of the Tower in the 20th year of Edw. 3. membrana 15. on the backside and in an Irish Parliament held the 42 year of Edw. 3. it 's declared That the English Pale was almost destroyed by the Irish enemies and that there was no way to prevent the danger but only that the Owners reside upon their Lands for defence and that absence should be a forfeiture This Act of Parliament in a great Council here was affirmed as appears in the close Roll the 22 year of Edw. 3. Membrana 20 dorso Afterwards as appears in the Statute of 28 Hen. 6th in Ireland this Hostility continued between the English Marches and the Irish Enemies who by reason there was no difference between the English Marches and them in their apparel did daily not being known to the English destroy the English within the Pale Therefore it is enacted that every English-man shall have the hair of his upper Lip for distinction sake This hostility continued until the 10th year of Henry the 7th as appears by the Statute of 10 H. 7th and 17th so successively downwards till the making of this very Statute of 11 Eliz. as appears fully in the 9th Chap. Nay immediately before and at the time of the making of this Statute there was not only enmity between those of the Shire-ground that is the English and Irish Pale but open War and acts of hostility as appears by History of no less Authority than that Statute it self for in the first Chapter of that Statute is the Attainder of Shane Oneale who had made open War was slain in open War it 's there declared That he had gotten by force all the North of Ireland for an hundred and twenty miles in length and about a hundred in breadth that he had mastered divers places within the English Pale when the flame of this War by his death immediately before this Statute was spent yet the Firebrands were not all quenched for the Rebellion continued by Iohn Fitz-Gerard called the White Knight and Thomas Gueverford this appears by the Statute of the Thirteenth year of Queen Eliz. in Ireland but two years after this of the Eleventh year of Queen Eliz. where they are attainted of High Treason for levying of War this Eleventh year wherein this Statute was made So that my Lords immediately before and at the time of the making of this Statute there being War between those of the Shire-grounds mentioned in this Statute and the Irish the concluding of War and Acts Offensive and Invasive there mentioned can be intended against no others but the Irish Enemies Again The words of the Statute are No Captain shall assemble the people of the Shire-grounds to conclude of Peace or War Is to presume that those of the Shire-grounds will conclude of War against themselves Nor with the Statute Shall carry those of the Shire-grounds to do any Acts Invasive by the construction which is made on the other side they must be carried to fight against themselves Lastly The words are That as Captain none shall assume the Name or Authority of a Captain or as a Captain shall gather the people together or as a Captain lead them the offence is not in the matter but in the manner If the Acts offensive were against the Kings good Subjects those that were under Command were punishable as well as the Commanders but in respect the Soldiers knew the service to be good in it self being against the enemies and that it was not for them to dispute the Authority of their Commanders the penalty of 100 l. is laid only upon him That as Captain shall assume this Power without Warrant the People commanded are not within this Statute My Lords The Logick wherupon this Argument is framed stands thus because the Statute of the Eleventh year of Queen Elizabeth inflicts a penalty of 100 l. and no more upon any man that as a Captain without Warrant and upon his own head shall conclude of or make War against the King's Enemies Therefore the Statute of the Eighteenth year of Henry the 6th is repealed which makes it Treason to lay Soldiers upon or to levy War against the Kings good People But my Lords Observation hath been made upon other words of this Statute that is that without Licence of the Deputy these things cannot be done this shews that the Deputy is within none of the Statutes My Lords This Argument stands upon the same reason with the former because he hath the ordering of the Army of Ireland for the defence of the people and may give Warrant to the Officers of the Army upon eminent occasions of Invasion to resist or prosecute the Enemy because of the danger that else might ensue forthwith by staying for a Warrant from His Majesty out of England My Lords The Statute of the 10th year of Henry the 7th chap. 17. touched upon for this purpose clears the business in both points for there is declared That none ought to make War upon the Irish Rebels and Enemies without Warrant from the Lieutenant the forfeiture 100 l. as here the Statute is the same with this and might as well have been cited for repealing the Statute of the 18th year of Henry the 6th as this of the 11th year of Queen Elizabeth But if this had been insisted upon it would have expounded the other two clear against him Object My Lords it hath been further said although the Statute be in force and there be a Treason within it yet the Parliament hath no Jurisdiction the Treasons are committed in Ireland therefore not triable here Answ. My Lords Sir Iohn Parrot his Predecessor 24 Edw. was tryed in the Kings Bench for Treason done in Ireland when he was Deputy and Oruche in the 33 year of Queen Elizabeth adjudged here for Treason done in Ireland Object But it will be said these Tryals were after the Statute of the 34th year of Henry the 8th which enacts that Treasons beyond Sea may be tryed in England Answ. My Lords his Predecessor my Lord Gray was tryed and adjudged here in the Kings-Bench that was in Trinity Term in the 33 year of Henry the 8th this was before the making of that Statute Object To this again will we say That it was for Treason by the Laws and Statutes of England that this is not for any thing that 's Treason by the Law of England but an Irish Statute So that the question is only Whether your Lordships here in Parliament have cognizance of an offence made Treason by an Irish Statute
not tryable by the Peers of Ireland so that if he be not tryable here he is tryable no where My Lords In case there be a Treason and a Traitor within the Statute and that he be not tryable here for it in the ordinary way of Judicature if that jurisdiction fail this by way of Bill doth not Attainders of Treason in Parliament are as legal as usual by Act of Parliament as by Judgement I have now done with the Statutes 25 Edw. 3. and 18 Hen. 6. My Lord of Strafford hath offended against both the Kingdoms and is guilty of High Treason by the Laws of both My Lords In the fifth place I am come to the Treasons at the Common-Law the endeavouring to subvert the fundamental Laws and Government of the Kingdom and to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government In this I shall not at all labour to prove That the endeavouring by Words Counsels and Actions to subvert the Laws is Treason at the Common-Law if there be any Common-Law Treasons at all left nothing is Treason if this be not to make a Kingdom no Kingdom take the Polity and Government away Englands but a piece of Earth wherein so many men have their Commorancy and abode without ranks or distinction of men without property in any thing further than possession no Law to punish the Murthering or robbing one another That of 33 Hen. 8. of introducing the Imperial Law sticks not with your Lordships it was in case of an Appeal to Rome these Appeals in Cases of Marriages and other causes counted Ecclesiastical had been frequent had in most Kings Reigns been tolerated some in times of Popery put a conscience upon them the Statutes had limited the penalty to a Praemunire only neither was that a total subversion only an Appeal from the Ecclesiastical Court here in a single Cause to the Court of Rome and if Treason or not that Case proves not a Treason may be punished as a Felony a Felony as a Trespass if His Majesty so please The greater includes the less in the Case of Praemunire in the Irish Reports that which is there declared to be Treason was proceeded upon only as a Praemunire The things most considerable in this is Whether the Treasons at Common-Law are taken away by the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. which is to speak against both the direct words and scope of that Statute In it there 's this clause That because many other like Cases of Treason might fall out which are not there declared therefore it is enacted That if any such Case come before the Iudges they shall not proceed to Iudgment till the Case be declared in Parliament whether it ought to be adjudged Treason or not These words and the whole scope of that Statute shews that it was not the meaning to take away any Treasons that were so before but only to regulate the jurisdiction and manner of Tryal Those that were single and certain Acts as conspiring the Kings death Levying War Counterfeiting the Money or Great Seal Killing a Judge these are left to the ordinary Courts of Justice The others not depending upon single Acts but upon constructions and necessary inferences they thought it not fit to give the inferior Courts so great a latitude here as too dangerous to the Subject those they restrained to the Parliament This Statute was the great security of the Subjects made with such wisdom as all the succeeding Ages have approved it it hath often passed through the Furnace but like Gold hath left little or nothing The Statute of the First H. 4. cap. 10. is in these words Whereas in the Parliament held the 21 year of Richard the 2. divers pains of Treason were ordained insomuch that no man did know how to behave himself to do say or speak It is accorded that in no time to come any Treason be adjudged otherwise than it was ordained by the Statute of 25th of Edw. 3. It hath been said To what end is this Statute made if it takes not away the Common-Law Treasons remaining after the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3 Therebe two main things which this Statute doth First it takes away for the future all the Treasons made by any Statute since 25 Edw. 3. to the 1 H. 4. even to that time for in respect that by another Act in that Parliament the Statute of 21 Rich. 2. was repealed it will not be denyed but that this Statute repeals more Treasons than these of the 21 R. 2. It repeals all Statute-Treasons but those in 25 Edw. 3. Secondly It not only takes away the Statute-Treasons but likewise the declared Treasons in Parliament after the 25th of Edw. 3. as to the future after Declaration in Parliament the inferior Courts might judge these Treasons for the Declaration of a Treason in Parliament after it was made was sent to the inferior Courts that toties quotîes the like Case fell out they might proceed therein the Subject for the future was secured against these so that this Statute was of great use But by the very words of it I shall refer all Treasons to the provision of 25 Edw. 3. it leaves that entire and upon the old bottom The Statute of 1 Queen M. cap. 1. saith That no offences made Treason by any Act of Parliament shall thenceforth be taken or adjudged to be Treason but only such as be declared and expressed to be Treason by the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. Concerning Treason or the Declaration of Treason and no others And further provides That no pains of death penalties or forfeiture in any wise shall ensue for committing any Treason other than such as be in the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. ordained and provided any Act of Parliament or any Declaration or matter to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding By the first of this Statute only offences made Treason by Act of Parliament are taken away the Common-Law-Treasons are no ways touched the words And no others refer still to offences made Treason by Act of Parliament they restrain not to the Treasons only particularly mentioned in the Statute in the 25th Edw. 3. but leave that Statute entire to the Common-Law-Treason as appears by the words immediately foregoing By the Second Part for the peins and forfeitures of Treasons if it intend only the punishment of Treason or if it intend both Treason and Punishment yet all is referred to the Provision and Ordinance of 25 Edw. 3. any Act of Parliament or other Declaration or thing notwithstanding It saith not other then such Penalties or Treasons as are expressed and declared in the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. that might perhaps have restrained it to those that are particularly mentioned no it refers all Treasons to the general Ordination and Provision of that Statute wherein the Common Law Treasons are expresly kept on foot If it be Asked What good this Statute doth if it take not away the Common Law Treasons 1. It takes away all the Treasons made
by Act of Parliament not only since the first of Hen. 4. which were many but all before 1 Hen. 4. even until the 25 E. 3. by express words 2. By express words it takes away all declared Treasons if any such had been in Parliament Those for the future are likewise taken away so that whereas it might have been doubted whether the Statute of the 1 H. 4. took away any Treasons but those of the 22 d and 23 d years of R. 2. This clears it both for Treasons made by Parliament or declared in Parliament even to the time of making the Statute This is of great use of great security to the Subject so that as to what shall be Treason and what not the Statute of 25 E. 3. remains entire and so by consequence the Treasons at the Common Law Only my Lords it may be doubted whether the manner of the Parliamentary proceedings be not altered by the Statute of 1 H. 4. Chap. 17. and more fully in the Parliament Roll Number 144 that is whether since that Statute the Parliamentary power of Declaration of Treasons whereby the inferiour Courts Receive Jurisdiction be not taken away and restrained only to Bill that so it might operate no further then to that particular contained in the Bill that so the Parliamentary Declarations for after-times should be kept within the Parliament it self and be extended no further Since 1 H. 4. we have not found any such Declarations made but all Attainders of Treason have been by Bill If this be so yet the Common-Law Treasons still remaining there is one and the same ground of reason and equity since the 1 H. 4. for passing a Bill of Treason as was before for declaring of it without Bill Herein the Legislative power is not used against my Lord of Strafford in the Bill it s only the jurisdiction of the Parliament But my Lords because that either through my mistaking of the true grounds and reasons of the Commons or my not pressing them with apt agreements and presidents of former times or that perchance your Lordships from some other Reasons and Authorities more swaying with your Lorpships Judgments then these from them may possibly be of a contrary or dubious opinion concerning these Treasons either upon the Statutes of 25 E. 3. 18 H. 6. or at the Common-Law My Lords If all these five should faile they have therefore given me further in Command to declare to your Lordships some of their Reasons why they conceive that in this case the meer Legislative Power may be exercised Their reasons are taken from these three grounds 1. From the nature and quality of the Offence 2. From the Frame and Constitution of the Parliament wherein this Law is made 3. From Practices and Usages of former times The horridness of the Offence in endeavouring the overthrowing the Lawes and present Government hath been fully opened to your Lordships heretofore The Parliament is the Representation of the whole Kingdom wherein the King as Head your Lordships as the most Noble and the Commons the other Members are knit together into one Body Politick This dissolves the Arteries and Ligaments that hold the Body together the Lawes He that takes away the Lawes takes not away the Allegiance of one Subject alone but of the whole Kingdom It was made Treason by the Statute of 13. Eliz. for Her time to affirm that the Lawes of the Realm do not bind the Descent of the Crown no Law no Descent at all No Lawes no Peerage no Rankes or Degrees of men the same Condition to all It 's Treason to kill a Judge upon the Bench this kills not Iudicem sed Iudicium He that borrowed Apelles and gave Bond to return again Apelles the Painter sent him home after he had cut off his Right Hand his Bond was broken Apelles was sent but not the Painter There are Twelve Men but no Law there 's never a Judge amongst them It 's Felony to Imbezle any one of the Judicial Records of the Kingdom this at once Sweeps them all away and from all It 's Treason to Counterfeit a Twenty shillings piece here 's a Counterfeiting of the Law we can call neither the Counterfeit nor True Coyn our own It 's Treason to Counterfeit the Great-Seal for an Acre of Land no property hereby is left to any Land at all nothing Treason now either against King or Kingdom no Law to punish it My Lords If the Question were Asked at Westminster-Hall Whether this were a Crime punishable in Star-Chamber or in the Kings-Bench by Fine or Imprisonment they would say it went higher If whether Felony they would say that 's for an Offence only against the Life or Goods of some one or few persons It would I believe be answered by the Judges as it was by the Chief Justice Thurning in 21 R. 2. that though he could not Judge the Case Treason there before him yet if he were a Peer in Parliament he would so Adjudge it My Lords if it be too big for those Courts we hope it 's in the right way here 2. The second Consideration is from the Frame and Constitution of the Parliament the Parliament is the great Body Politick it comprehends all from the King to the Beggar if so My Lords as the Natural so this Body it hath power over it self and every one of the Members for the preservation of the whole It 's both the Physitian and the Patient If the Body be distempered it hath power to open a Vein to let out the corrupt blood for curing it self if one Member be Poysoned or Gangred it hath power to cut it off for the preservation of the rest But my Lords it hath often been inculcated that Law-makers should imitate the Supreme Law-giver who commonly warnes before he strikes The Law was promulged before the Judgment of death for gathering the Sticks No Law no Transgression My Lords To this rule of Law is Frustra legis auxilium invocat qui in legem committit from the Lex talionis he that would not have had others to have a Law Why should he have any himself Why should not that be done to him that himself would have done to others It 's true we give Law to Hares and Deers because they be Beasts of Chase It was never accounted either cruelty or foul play to knock Foxes and Wolves on the head as they can be found because these be Beasts of Prey The Warrener sets Traps for Polcats and other Vermine for preservation of the Warren Further my Lords most dangerous Diseases if not taken in time they kill Errors in great things as War and Marriage they allow no time for repentance it would have been too late to make a Law when there had been no Law My Lords for further Answer to this Objection he hath offended against a Law a Law within the endeavouring to subvert the Lawes and Polity of the State wherein he lived which had so long and with such
faithfulness protected his Ancestry Himself and his whole Family It was not Malum quia prohibitum it was Malum in se against the Dictates of the dullest Conscience against the Light of Nature they not having a Law were a Law to themselves Besides this he knew a Law without that the Parliament in Cases of this Nature had Potestatem vitae necis Nay he well knew that he offended the Promulged and Ordinary Rules of Law Crimes against Law have been Proved have been Confessed so that the Question is not De culpa sed de poena What degree of Punishment those Faults deserve We must differ from him in Opinion That twenty Felonies cannot make a Treason if it be meant of equallity in the use of the Legislative Power for he that deserves death for one of these Felonies alone deserves a Death more Painful and more Ignominious for all together Every Felony is punished with loss of Life Lands and Goods a Felony may be aggravated with those Circumstances as that the Parliament with good reason may add to the Circumstances of Punishment as was done in the Case of Iohn Hall in the Parliament of the 1 H. 4. who for a Barbarous Murder committed upon the Duke of Glocester Stifling him between two Feather-Beds at Calice was Adjudged to be Hanged Drawn and Quartered Batteries by Law are only punishable by Fine and single Damages to the Party Wounded In the Parliament held in 1 H. 4. Cap. 6. one Savage committed a Battery upon one Chedder Servant to Sir Iohn Brooke a Knight of the Parliament for Somersetshire It 's there Enacted that he shall pay double Damages and stand Convicted if he render not himself by such a time The manner of proceedings quickned and the penalty doubled the Circumstances were considered it concerned the Common-Wealth it was a Battery with Breach of Priviledge of Parliament This made a perpetual Act no warning to the first Offender and in the Kings Bench as appears by the Book-Case of 9 H. 4. the first leaf Double Damages were recovered My Lords in this of the Bill the Offence is High and General against the King and the Common-wealth against all and the best of all If every Felony be loss of Life Lands and Goods What is Misuser of the Legislative Power by Addition of Ignominy in the Death and Disposal of the Lands to the Crown the Publick Patrimony of the Kingdom But it was hoped that your Lordships had no more skill in the Art of killing Men then your worthy Ancestors My Lords this Appeal from your selves to your Ancestors we do admit of although we do not admit of that from your Lordships to the Peers of Ireland He hath appealed to them your Lordships will be pleased to hear what Judgment they have already given in the case that is the several Attainders of Treason in Parliament after the Statute of 25 E. 3. for Treasons not mentioned nor within that Statute and those upon the first Offenders without warning given By the Statute of 25 E. 3. it 's Treason to levy War against the King Gomines and Weston afterwards in Parliament in the 1 R. 2. n. 38 39 adjudged Traytors for surrendring two several Castles in France only out of fear without any Compliance with the Enemy this not within the Statute of 25th E. 3. My Lords In the 3 d of Rich. 2d. Iohn Imperiall that came into England upon Letters of Safe Conduct as an Agent for the State of Genoa sitting in the evening before his door in Breadstreet as the words of the Records are Paulo ante ignitegium Iohn Kirkby and another Citizen coming that way Casually Kirkby troad upon his Toe it being twilight this grew to a Quarrel and the Ambassador was slain Kirkby was Indicted of High-Treason the Indictment finds all this and that it was only done se defendendo and without malice The Judges it being out of the Statute 25 E. 3. could not proceed the Parliament declared it Treason and Judgment afterwards of High-Treason there 's nothing can bring this within the Statute of 25 E. 3. but it concerns the Honor of the Nation that the Publick Faith should be strictly kept It might endanger the Traffique of the Kingdom they made not a Law first they made the first man an Example this is in the Parliament-Roll 3 R. 2. Number 18. and Hillary Terme 3 R. 2. Rot. 31. in the Kings-Bench where Judgment is given against him In 11 R. 2. Tresilian and some others attainted of Treason for delivering Opinions in the Subversion of the Law and some others for plotting the like My Lords the Case hath upon another occasion been opened to your Lordships only this is observable that in the Parliament of the first year of Henry the Third where all Treasons are again reduced to the Statute of 25 E. 3. These Attainders were by a particular Act confirmed and made good that the memory thereof might be transmitted to succeeding Ages they stand good unto this day the offences there as here were the endeavouring the Subversion of the Laws My Lords after the 1 H. 4. Sir Iohn Mortimer being committed to the Tower upon suspition of Treason brake Prison and made his escape This no way within any Statute or any former Judgment at Common-Law for this that is for breaking the Prison only and no other cause in the Parliament held the second year of Henry the Sixth he was attainted of High-Treason by Bill My Lords Poysoning is only Murder yet one Richard Cooke having put Poyson into a Pot of Pottage in the Kitchin of the Bishop of Rochester whereof two persons dyed he 's Attainted of Treason and it was Enacted that he should be Boyled to Death by the Statute of 22 H. 8. c. 9. By the Statute of the 25 H. 8. Elizabeth Barton the Holy Maid of Kent for pretending Revelations from God That God was highly displeased with the King for being Divorced from the Lady Katherine and that in case he persisted in the Separation and should Marry another that he would not continue King not above one Moneth after because this tended to the depriving of the lawful Succession to the Crown she is Attainted of Treason My Lords all these Attainders for ought I know are in force at this day The Statutes of the First year of Henry the 4 th and the First of Queen Mary although they were willing to make the Statute of 25 E. 3. the Rule to the Inferiour Courts yet they left the Attainders in Parliament precedent to themselves untoucht wherein the Legislative power had been exercised There 's nothing in them whence it can be gathered but that they intended to leave it as free for the future My Lords In all these Attainders there were Crimes and Offences against the Law they thought it not unjust Circumstances considered to heighten and add to the degrees of punishment and that upon the first Offender My Lords we receive as just the other Lawes
and Statutes made by these our Ancestors they are the Rules we go by in other Cases Why should we differ from them in this alone These my Lords are in part those things which have satisfied the Commons in passing the Bill it is now left to the Judgment and Justice of your Lordships Upon the Close of Mr. St. Iohns Speech the House Adjourned nor was there one word spoken but by Master St. Iohns onely the Lord Lieutenant used the last part of his Rhetorick and by a dumb Eloquence Manibus ad sydera tensis often holding up his hands towards Heaven all along Mr. St. Iohns Speech made his Replies with a deep silence Upon Fryday April the 30th he Petitioned the Lords to be heard again alleadging That his Lawyers had not fully spoken at their last meeting but this was denyed him because the House of Commons were to have the last Speech nor were they content to speak again The following SPEECH of Mr. Glyns is by a Mistake Misplaced for it ought to be next to my Lords Summary of the Evidence Mr. GLYN'S REPLY TO THE Earl of Strafford's DEFENCE My Lord of Strafford having concluded the Recapitulation of his Evidence Mr. Glyn applyed himself to their Lordships in manner following May it please your Lordships MY Lord of Strafford as your Lordships have observed hath spent a great deal of time in his Evidence and in his course of answering hath inverted the order of the Articles he hath spent some time likewise in defending the Articles not objected against him wherein he hath made a good Answer if in any we shall presume to withdraw a while and rest upon your Lordships patience and I doubt not but to represent my Lord of Strafford as cunning in his Answer as he is subtil in his practice The Committee withdrawing for about the space of half an hour and then returning to the Bar Mr. Glyn proceeded as followeth My Lords your Lordships have observed how the Earl of Strafford hath been accused by the Commons of England of High Treason for a purpose and design to subvert the Fundamental Laws of both the Kingdoms of England and Ireland and to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government The Commons have exhibited Articles in maintenance of that Charge My Lord of Strafford hath thereunto answered in Writing The Commons have proceeded to make good their Charge by proof and thereunto my Lord of Strafford hath made his Defence and this day my Lord of Strafford hath taken upon him to recollect his Evidence and make his observation upon it the most he could to his advantage My Lords We that are intrusted for the House of Commons stand here to recollect the Evidence on our part and to apply it to the general Charge and how far it conduces thereunto My Lord of Strafford in recollecting the Evidence of his Defence as I did mention before hath under favour exprest very much subtilty and that in divers particulars which I shall represent to your Lordships My Lords before I enter upon the recollection of the proofs produced on the behalf of the Commons I shall make some observations and give some answer to that recollection of his though very disorderly to the method I propounded to my self And First in general it will appear to your Lordships looking upon your Notes and observing his recollection that he hath used the repetition of Evidence on both sides in such manner as you know who useth Scripture that is to cite as much as makes for his purpose and leave out the rest And likewise that in repetition of the Evidence he hath mis-recited plainly very much of the proofs on both sides and likewise hath pretended some proofs to be for his Defence which indeed were not and he hath taken this farther advantage when it makes for his Defence he hath disjoynted the Proofs and Testimonies and severed them asunder that it might appear to your Lordships like Rain falling in drops which considered in distinct drops bring no horror or seeming inconvenience with them but when they are gathered together into an entire body they make an Inundation and cover the face of the earth He would not have your Lordships look on those Testimonies together but distinctly and asunder which being put together look horrid as will appear to your Lordships when you duly consider of them These be the general observations which in my Answer I doubt not but to make good But before I shall enter into observations of what he hath spoken I shall answer in general to some things which he hath in general alledged In the first place he hath made a flourish this day and several other days in the way of his Defence That if he could have had longer time he could have made things appear clearer and have produced more proofs Give me leave to inform your Lordships that he is no way streightned of time for he hath been charged above three months since he knew what was laid to his Charge and therefore his pretence of want of time and of his disabilities to make better proofs are but flourishes And it appears plainly whatsoever he hath had occasion to make use of even the least paper though he fetched it from Ireland there is not one wanting he hath copies of Papers from the Council-Table from the Parliament of Ireland and all that may any way tend to his justification and yet he stands upon that flourish that if he had had time he could have made it more clear My Lords He hath mentioned often this day and oftner the days before That many of the Articles laid to his charge are proved but by one Witness and thereupon he takes the advantage of the Statute of E. 6. that sayes A man ought not to be condemned for High Treason without two witnesses My Lords This is a fallacy known to his own breast I doubt not and not taught him by any of his Counsel or others Learned The Treason laid to his charge is The subverting of the Laws the Evidence is the Article proved and though some one Article appears to be proved but by one yet put the Evidence together you shall never find it to be within the words or meaning of the Statute for the Charge is proved by a hundred Witnesses and because one part of the Evidence is proved only by one Witness since when you put them together you will find a hundred Witnesses it is not within the words nor meaning of the Statute neither will his Counsel direct him to say so I am confident My Lords another observation I shall be bold to make is that he was pleased to cast an aspersion as we must apprehend upon them that are trusted by the House of Commons this day That we that stand here alledged and affirmed things to be proved that are not proved He might have pleased to have spared that language we stand here to justify our selves that we do not use to express any language
what the effect of the Warrant is sworn to be that howsoever the Sergeant at Arms and his Ministers that executed it brought but four or six or ten yet the Sergeant might have brought all the Army of Ireland for there was authority so to do And admitting the matter of Fact proved he mentions an Act of Parliament made 11 Eliz. whereby a penalty is laid upon men that shall lay Soldiers on the Kings Subjects and yet as my Lord observes it must now be Treason in the Deputy My Lords The very casting of an eye upon that Act shews it to be as vainly objected as if he had said nothing for in truth it is no other than as if he should say The King hath given me the Command of an Army in Ireland and therefore I may turn them upon the bowels of the Kings Subjects It is no more in effect Your Lordships heard him the other day mentioning two Acts of Repeal and I expected he would have insisted upon them but it seems he hath been better advised and thinks them not worthy repetition nor indeed are they And if the matter of Fact be proved upon the Fifteenth Article I am confident he will find the Statute of 18 H. 6. to be of ful force My Lords I am very sorry to hear that when levying of War upon the Kings Subjects is in agitation and he charged with High Treason he should make mention of the Yorkshire men and the Army now on foot whereby he would insinuate that if he be charged with High Treason then they must be likewise though they lye quartered and have meat and drink with the assent of the people which may breed ill blood for ought I know From the Fifteenth Article he descends to the three and twentieth and that is the Article whereby he stands charged with speaking of Words and giving of Counsel to His Majesty to incense him against His Parliament pretending a necessity and telling him he is loose and absolved from all rules of Government that he had an Army in Ireland which he might make use of to reduce this kingdom In this he is pleased to begin with the Testimony of my Lord Ranelagh conceiving an apprehension and fear in him that the Army should go over to England which my Lord says is no more but his saying and Mr. Treasurer Vane ' s. I pray God my Lord Ranelagh had not much cause to fear but by the same rule he may lay a charge of unwarrantable fear upon all the Commons for sure the Commons of England did fear it else they would not make an Article of it but my Lord Ranelagh's fear did not arise from a slight cause and he shewed himself a good Common-wealths man in expressing it and he is to be commended for it howsoever it be apprehended by my Lord of Strafford For his observation of the single Testimony of Mr. Treasurer Vane give me leave to take the same latitude as his Lordship did for he shews to three or four Articles what he could have proved as to the Article concerning the Army he could have proved the design of it by Sir John Burlacy and some others if they had been here But by this rule and liberty he hath taken to alledge what he could have shown give me leave to tell you what we might have shown and are ready to show we could have made it express and proved it by Notes taken by Secretary Vane the 5th of May when the words were spoken which Notes should have been proved if we had proceeded on the Three and twentieth Article to corroborate the Testimony of Mr. Secretary Vane and that by two Witnesses We could likewise have shown how we came to the knowledge of it it being by means unknown to Mr. Secretary Vane and have made him an upright Counsellor and Witness but we shall prove his intentions to bring in the Irish Army another way when I come to open my own course and method My Lords he pretends these words were spoken the 5th of May but when they were testified by Mr. Treasurer he did not speak of the 5th of May and yet now my Lord remembers the day and I wonder how he came to the knowledge of the day unless he likewise remembred the words But that my Lord observes is That being spoken then how should he perswade the King that he had an Army in Ireland when in truth he had none there for the Army was not on foot till a month after This my Lords is plainly answered and if he had thought of his own answer he had answered himself for he tels you That in April before he had taken a course for the levying of the Army he had nominated the Officers giving direction for raising it and the day of the Rendezvous of the Army was appointed the 18th of May. And so in his own answer he makes an answer to the objection and the objection is taken away out of his own confession From that Article he falls to the seven and twentieth Article whereby he stands charged with Levying Money by force upon the Kings people in Yorkshire he is pleased to observe that all the proofe for the maintenance of that Article is only the levying of Money by four Soldiers by Sergeant-Major Yaworth where he is pleased to disdain the War because it was so weak yet it was too strong for them God help them that were forced upon pain of life to pay it And whereas he pretends the Warrant was not from him I shall reserve that till I come to the Article and when I come to the proofs I believe it will remain fixed upon him And there he left his Statute-Treason and now he falls to the second kind of Treason and that was the introductive or constructive Treason He begins with the third Article that is concerning some words that he should be charged to have spoken in Ireland and I shall desire that your Lordships would be pleased to look upon your Notes how he answers that Article My Lords says he I am charged to say that Ireland was a conquered Nation and that their Charters were nothing worth and bind the King no further than he pleaseth therefore I am a Traitor because I speak the Truth There was his Answer in his Collection And for their Charters he sayes he might very well say so for he intended it no otherwise but according to the validity of them for they were several ways questionable and ought not to bind unless they were good in Law But if you look upon his Arguments he hath like a cunning Orator omitted the principal part of the Article and that is That Ireland is a conquered Nation and they were to be governed as the King pleaseth the King might do with them what he list this he omits although they be proved by three witnesses and are appliable to his intentions fully yet he could make use of so much as makes for him and leaves out the
the Subject but then he goes into Ireland and as his authority increases so he ampliates his design and no sooner is he there but the third Article is laid to his charge That when the City and Recorder of Dublin the principal City of Ireland presented the Mayor upon a solemn Speech and Discourse concerning the Laws and Liberties as your Lordships know that is the subject matter of a Speech at such presentments as when the Lord Mayor of London is presented to the King I beseech your Lordship observe the words he then used They were a conquered Nation and that we lay not to his charge but they were to be governed as the King pleases their Charters were nothing worth and bind but during the Kings pleasure I am to seek if I were to express an Arbitrary Power and Tyrannical Government how to express it in finer words and more significant terms than these That the people shall be governed at the Kings Will that their Charters the sinews and ligatures of their Liberties Lands and Estates should be nothing worth and bind no longer than the Kings pleasure especially being spoken upon such an occasion and the words proved by two or three Witnesses of credit and quality From thence we descend to Articles that shew the execution of his purpose There are three things a man enjoys by the protection of the Law that is his Life his Liberty and his Estate And now my Lords observe how he invades and exercises a Tyrannical Jurisdiction and Arbitrary Government over them all three I shall begin with the fifth Article that is concerning my Lord Mountnorris and Denwit My Lord Mountnorris a Peer of that Realm was sentenced to death by procurement of my Lord of Strafford who howsoeve he pretends himself not to be a Judge in the cause yet how far he was an Abettor and Procurer and Countenancer and drawer on of that Sentence your Lordships very well remember he was sentenced to death without Law for speaking words at a private Table God knows of no manner of consequence in the world concerning the treading upon my Lord of Strafford ' s Toe the Sentence procured seven months after the words spoken and contrary to Law and himself being put in mind of it my Lord Mountnorris desiring to have the benefit of the Law and yet he refusing it And then it was in time of Peace when all the Courts of Justice were open and to sentence a man to death of that quality my Lord of Strafford himself being present an author a drawer on of it makes it very hainous Your Lordships remember this Article was fully proved and though he pretends His Authority by a Letter from His Majesty I shall in due time give a full answer to that so that it shall rise up in judgement against him to aggravate his offence and that in a great measure Here he exercises a Power over Life his excuse was That he procured a Pardon from my Lord Mountnorris but the Power was exercised and the Tyranny appeared to be the more He would first sentence him to death and then rejoyce in his Power that he might say There remains no more but my command to the Provost Marshal to do execution To exercise a power over his life and to abuse him afterwards is very high but no thanks to him that the sentence of death was not executed it was the Grace and Goodness of His Majesty that would not suffer my Lord Mountnorris a person of that Eminence to be put to death against Law But the other was hanged and as appears against Law and though my Lord pretends the party was burnt in the hand yet that was not proved nor material and for him to do this in time of Peace when the Courts of Justice were open it argues a desire in his Breast to arrogate a Power above Law And in truth I may not omit some observations that my Lord made this day He hopes His Majesty would be pleased to grant him a Pardon I perceive he harboured in this thoughts that he might hang the Kings Subjects when he would and then get a Pardon of course for it The Lord bless me from his jurisdiction My Lords give me leave to goe back again here is Power over the Lives and Liberties of the Subject but he exercised likewise a Tyrannical Power over his Estate Your Lordships may be pleased to remember the fourth Article where he judges my Lord of Cork's Estate in neither Church-land nor Plantation-land and therefore had no pretence of a Jurisdiction for it is a Lay Fee divolved by Act of Parliament to the Crown yet he deprives him of his possession which he had continued for Twenty nine years upon a Paper-Petition without rules of Law And whereas my Lord of Cork went about to redeem himself the Law being every man's inheritance and that which he ought to enjoy he tels him He will lay him by the heels if he withdraw not his Process and so when he hath judged him against an express Act of Parliament and Instructions and bound up a great Peer of the Realm he will not suffer him to redeem that wrong without a threat of laying him by the heels and he will not have Law nor Lawyers question his Orders and would have them all know an Act of State should be equal to an Act of Parliament which are words of that nature that higher cannot be spoken to declare an intention to proceed in an Arbitrary way The next was in my Lord Mountnorris his Case and Rolstone And here I must touch my Lord with misrepetition Rolstone preferred a Petition to my Lord Deputy my Lord Deputy himself judges his Estate and deprived him of his possession though he cannot produce so much as one example or precedent though if he had it would not have warranted an illegal action but he cannot produce a precedent that ever any Deputy did determine concerning a mans private Estate and if he hath affirmed it he proved it not some Petitions have been preferred to him but what they be non constat But though never any knew the Deputy alone to determine matters of Land yet he did it To the Seventh Article we produce no Evidence but my Lord of Strafford cannot be content with that but he must take upon him to make defence for that which is not insisted upon as a charge but since he will do so I refer it to the Book in print where he determines the Inheritance of a Nobleman in that Kingdom that is my Lord Dillon by a Case falsly drawn and contrary to his consent and though he deprives him not of his possession yet he causes the Land to be measured out and it is a danger that hangs over his head to this day And had we not known that we had matter enough against my Lord of Strafford this should have risen in judgement against him but I had not mentioned it now if he had not mentioned it
himself The Eighth Article contains several charges as that of my Lord Chancellor How he imprisoned him upon a Iudgement before himself and the Council how he inforced the Seal from him when he had no authority nay though it were excepted by his Patent that he should no way dispose of it but he looked not to Authority further than might make way to his Will Another concerns the prime Earl of that Kingdom my Lord of Kildare whom he imprisoned and kept close prisoner contrary to the Kings express command for his deliverance and in his answer my Lord acknowledges it but sayes That that command was obtained from the King upon a mis-information These things I would not have mentioned if he had passed them over but since he gives them in give me leave to mention and say we had a ground to put them into Charge and could have proved them if there had been need punctually and expresly and I believe little to my Lords advantage But your Lordships I think do remember my Lady Hibbots Case where the Lady Hibbots contracts with Thomas Hibbots for his Inheritance for 2500 l. executes the Contract by a Deed and Fine levied deposits part of the Money and when a Petition was exhibited to the Lord Deputy and Council for the very Estate your Lordships remember how this came in judgment before my Lord Deputy there was but a Petition delivered there was an answer made and all the suggestions of the Petition denied yet my Lord spake to Hibbots himself that was willing to accept the Money not to decline the way that he was in by Petition Five hundred pound more will do him no hurt to carry into England with him and yet without examination of a Witness a Decree was made to deprive this Lady of her Estate and the purchasing of this Land by my Lord of Strafford was proved by two Witnesses though not absolutely yet by confession of Sir Robert Meredith and others whose names were used in Trust for my Lord of Strafford and that it proved according to my Lord of Straffords Prophecy for the man had five hundred pounds gain above the Contract with my Lady Hibbots But after the Lands were sold for Seven thousand pounds so that the Lady Hibbots offence was her making of a bargain whereby to gain Five hundred pounds but there was no offence in my Lord to make a bargain for Three thousand pounds and to gain Four thousand pounds presently this you see proved by Hibbots the party and by Mr. Hoy the Son of the Lady Hibbots So that here is a determination of a Cause before the Council-Table touching Land which was neither Plantation nor Church-Land without colour of the Instructions contrary to Law to Statute to Practice and if this be not an exercising of an unlawful jurisdiction over the Land and Estates of the Subject I know not what is In his answer to this case he did open it yet whether he mistook or no I know not that he had a Letter from the King but he produces none in evidence and that is another mis-recital I am sorry he should mis-recite and fix it upon the Person of His Sovereign in a case of this nature Now he falls more immediately upon the liberty of the Subject and that is by the Warrant mentioned in the Ninth Article to be issued to the Bishop of Down and Conner whereby he gives power to him and his Officers to apprehend any of the Kings Subjects that appeared not upon Process out of his Ecclesiastical Courts expresly contrary to Law and your Lordships have heard how miserably the Kings Subjects were used by this Warrant as hath been proved by a Gentleman of Quality Sir Iames Mountgomery And howsoever he pretends it was called in it was three whole years in execution before it was called in and though he pretends his Predecessors did ordinarily grant Warrants of that nature yet he proves no such thing My Lord Primate was examined and he says that Bishop Mountgomery did tell him there was such a Warrant and one Witness more speaks of one Warrant and that is all the Witnesses produced and that but to be a Copy too Your Lordships have heard how he exercises his jurisdiction and power over particulars and that in a numerous manner now your Lordships shall find it universal and spread over the face of that Kingdom that was under his jurisdiction and that is in the tenth Article which concerns the Customs where he doth impose upon the Kings Subjects a Rate and Tax against Law and enforces them to pay it or else punishes them for it which is expresly an arrogating to himself of a jurisdiction above the Law My Lords in his answer he pretends that this is rather a matter of fraud than otherwise in truth and so it is and that a great one too But as it is a fraud a dis-service and deceit to His Majesty so it is likewise an exercise of a Tyrannical Jurisdiction over his Subjects That it is a fraud to His Majesty it plainly appears for the King lost exceedingly by it whereas before the Rent afforded the King was 11050. l. there was improved by the new Lease that my Lord of Strafford took but 1350 l. and I beseech your Lordships observe how much the King lost by it for my Lord had comprehended in his new Lease the Impost of Wine for which the King before that time received 1400 l. a year and likewise the Custom of London-derry Colerane and Knockfergus for which the King had reserved 1700 l. a year besides the moity of the seizures so here is 5000 l. that the King lost of the old Rent expresly and if your Lordships please observe the gain and benefit my Lord of Strafford made by it in one year he and his sharers received 39000 l. and in the last year 51000 l. and that expresly proved upon two accounts and if this be his dealing where is his service to the King in his pretence to advance the Customs It is true he says The King hath five eighth parts but it was but within these two years the King had it not before And I would very gladly have heard whether the King received his part of an account of 55000 l. if he had received it I believe we should have heard of it My Lords There is something more here is a new imposition on the Kings people without Law and yet I will do my Lord of Strafford no injury but I tell you how the proof stands It was a Book of Rates framed before he came to the farm for the Book of Rates was in March and the Date of his Assignment was in April following and therefore my Lord saith It could not be for his benefit But my Lords all this while my Lord of Strafford was in England and in agitation for the procuring of it and they come one upon the heels of another and I beseech you observe cui bono the Book of
by two witnesses concerning the Kings being loose and absolved from rules of Government and if they did not hear those words no marvel they did not hear the other and therefore that which he himself pretends to be a convincing testimony is nothing at all so that his objections are clearly taken away and the single testimony fortified with testimonies that make above one witness and so the words are fully proved But to fortify the whole I shall handle all these Articles together This design to subvert the Law and to exercise an Arbitrary power above the Law in this Kingdom will upon the proofs putting them altogether and not taking them in pieces as my Lord of Strafford hath done appear to have been harboured in his thoughts and setled in his heart long before it was executed You see what his Counsels were That the King having tryed the affections of his people was loose and absolved from all rules of Government and might do every thing that power would admit and His Majesty had tryed all ways and was refused and should be acquitted of God and Man and had an Army in Ireland wherewith if he pleased he might reduce this Kingdom so there must be a trial of his people for Supply that is denyed which must be interpreted a Defection by refusal and this refusal must give advantage of necessity and this necessity must be an advantage to use his Prerogative against the rule of the Law and consent of the People this is his advice which shews that this very thing that happened did harbour in his thoughts long before the breach of the Parliament and the occasion of the Army Your Lordships have heard it confessed by himself That before this last advice he had advised the calling of a Parliament To the Parliament a proposition of Twelve Subsidies was made for supply and which may be spoken with great assurance before they had consulted or given any resolution to that proposition the Parliament was dissolved upon a supposal that the Supply was denied Now that this was pre-designed by my Lord of Strafford himself I beseech you observe these things following that is The words in the Two and twentieth Article That His Majesty was first to try the Parliament and if that did not supply him then he would serve the King any other way His words are proved by Mr. Treasurer That if the Parliament supplyed him not he would serve him any other way and this is before the Parliament set now if your Lordships hear the proofs of my Lord Primate which my Lord of Strafford slights taking it singly My Lord Primate before the Parliament was called when my Lord of Strafford was in Ireland and not yet come into this Kingdom testifies my Lords saying That if the Parliament will not supply His Majesty the King was acquitted before God and Man if he took some other course to supply himself though against the will of the Subjects I beseech your Lordships observe how he prophesies these things must come to pass and advised them accordingly My Lord Conway testifies that before the Parliament sate my Lord of Strafford said that if the Parliament would not supply His Majesty the King was acquitted before God and Man if he took another course to supply himself though it were against the will of the Subject and he doubts not but the Parliament would give What Twelve Subsidies and your Lordships very well remember Twelve were propounded but I beseech you observe the coherence of all the Parliament must be called they must be tryed if they deny there is necessity and this necessity is a Warrant for the King to proceed so that my Lord of Strafford must be judged to be either a Prophet or to have this design beforehand in his thoughts Now the Parliament being broken before answer to the Demand given he vents his Counsel in the Three and twentieth Article and how far it is proved your Lordships have heard Now comes the Bullion to be seized the Copper-money to be advised and now comes he to tell the King that the Aldermen of London must be put to Fine and Ransome and laid by the heels and no good would be done till some of them be hanged so you hear his advice I beseech your Lordships observe what success this advice took Four Aldermen were instantly committed and then the Counsel of the Three and twentieth Article is fomented First He foments the War then there is a necessity the defection of the Parliament must set the King loose from rules of Government and now see whether the occasion of the War the calling of the Parliament the dissolving of it be not adequate to what he propounded to himself namely to set up an Arbitrary Government Your Lordships remember how fresh my Lord of Bristols memory is touching my Lord of Straffords opinion upon the dissolution of the Parliament how he declared unto my Lord of Bristol instantly within three or four days after That the King was not to be mastered by the frowardness of his people or rather of some particular persons and your Lordships remember Sir George Wentworths words spoken the very day of dissolving the Parliament which may be very well applyed as a concurrent proof to his intentions of bringing the Army into England He was my Lords own Brother that knew much of his Counsel and his words are That the English Nation would never be well till they were conquered over again So my Lords put all together if he declared his own intentions if actions in executing this Tyrannical and Arbitrary Power if Counsels of as dangerous consequence in as high a strain as can be be not a sufficient Evidence to prove an intention and desire to subvert the Law I know not what can prove such an interpretation and now I refer it to your Lordships judgements whether here be not a good proof of the Article laid to his chage My Lords in the Seven and twentieth Article he is charged with levying of War upon the Kings people by forcing them in Yorkshire to pay Money to prove they were so forced you have heard by two witnesses that Sergeant Major Yaworth by Musquetiers four together in the Town and one by one out of the Town did compel them to pay the fortnights contribution else they were to serve in person That he did this by Warrant is likewise confessed by Sir William Pennyman and whether this were an authority derived from or commanded by my Lord of Strafford that is the question and my Lords it is plainly proved that it was commanded by my Lord of Strafford for Sir William Pennyman himself being examined alledged that the Warrant was made in pursuance of the relation and direction made by my Lord of Strafford Your Lordships heard what my Lord of Strafford did say before-hand as is proved by two witnesses Sir William Ingram and Mr. Cholmley that this Money should be paid or levied on the Subjects Goods Then his Declaration
to Sir William Pennyman in pursuance of which he made his Warrant That it was the assent of the Lords of the great Council that this Money should be levied and taking all together whether it fixes it not upon him to be the Author and Instrument it rests in your judgements in point of fact and so I suppose the Seven and twentieth Article rests on him and so I shall conclude the Evidence produced on the behalf of the Commons And now give me leave to put your Lordships in mind of some Evidences offered by my Lord Strafford himself in his Answer and in the passages of his Defence for his clearing and justification but tending directly to his condemnation I will enter upon some passages he mentioned to day and often before When he is charged with invading the Estates of the Peers of the kingdom of Ireland and determining them upon Paper Petitions in an Arbitrary way your Lordships have heard him speak it before and repeat it this day That he did it out of compassion for the more expeditious proceeding on behalfe of the poor against these mighty But then my Lords I beseech you compare some other part of his proceedings Your Lordships remember the business of the Flax which concerns the poor wholly and universally and if compassion had been the rule and direction of his actions towards the poor surely this would have been a just cause to have commiserated them in this case but he exercised his power over them and over them wholly and over them universally and therefore it shews it is not his compassion to the poor nor respect to the rich or mighty that will any way restrain or obstruct his ways to his own Will And thefore you may see what truth there is in his answer by comparing one part of the charge with another when the business of the Flax brought that calamity upon the Kings Subjects that thousands of them perished for lack of Bread and dyed in Ditches Secondly Your Lordships have often heard him use a Rhetorical insinuatian wondring that he should be charged with words and they strained so high as to be made Treason to question his Life and Posterity though the words might be spoken unadvisedly or in discourse or by chance Your Lordships remember the Fifth Article touching his proceedings against my Lord Mountnorris where words were spoken in an ordinary discourse at dinner and slight ones God knows of no consequence at all such as another man would scarce have harkened after and yet my Lord extends them to the taking away of my Lord Mountnorris his life gets a sentence of death against him and that against Law with a high hand in such a manner as I think your Lordships have not heard the like and therefore I beseech you compare one part of his Answer with another and see how ready he is to make use of any thing that may excuse himself and yet when he comes to act his power you see his exercise of it You have heard how he magnifies his Zeal for advancing the Kings Benefit and Revenue and his care of his Service and would shelter and protect himself under it to justify an exorbitant action but if your Lordships call to mind the business of the Customs for Tobacco which in truth were the Kings right and due and a great profit was thereby advanced and he trusted to advance it The King must loose of his former Rents in the case of Custom and received a small Rent in the case of Tobacco my Lord himself in the mean time imbursing such vast sums of Money where is then the discharge of his Trust where is his care to advance the Kings Rents to increase his Revenue Compare that part of his Answer with this and see what credit is to be given to his affirmation My Lords throughout the passages of his discourse he insinuates and never more than this day with the Peers of the Realm magnifying them almost to Idolatry and yet my Lords when he was in his Kingdom in Ireland and had power over them what respect shewed he then to the Peers of the Kingdom when he judged some to death trampled upon others in misery committed them to prison and seized on their Estates where then was the Peerage he now magnifies And to shew it was an insinuation for his own advantage you may remember when there was an unlawful Act to be committed that is the levying of Money in the North What regard had he then to the Peers of the Kingdom when he comes to justify and boulster up High Treason it self under the name and authority of the Great Council where most of the Peers of the Realm then were and so by this time I know what credit your Lordships give to his words spoken when he lies under your Mercy and Power but what do I speak of the Peers of the Kingdom and his using of them My Lords he spared not his Sovereign His Majesty in His whole Defence for being charged with offences of a high nature he justifies those offences under the pretence and under the authority of His Majesty our Gracious King and Sovereign even Murther it self in the Case of Denwit and my Lord Mountnorris Treason it self in the Fifteenth Article by a Command in Ireland and in the Seven and twentieth by a pretended authority from His Majesty in the face of His People he justifies my Lord Mountnorris his sentence by a Letter from His Majesty Denwits Sentence by a Commission from His Majesty and he read three or four clauses to that purpose My Lords my Lord of Strafford doth very well know and if he doth not know it I have a Witness to produce against him which I will not examine but refer it to his own Conscience that is The Petition of Right that the Kings Servants are to serve him according to Law and no otherwise he very well knew if an unlawful act be committed especially to a degree of Treason and Murder the Kings Authority and Warrant produced is no justification at all So then my Lords to mention the Kings name to justify an unlawful act in that way can do him no good and his own understanding knows it may do the King harm if we had not so Gracious a King that no such thing can do harm unto But my Lords to produce the Kings Warrant to justify his actions under his Patent and Command what is it else but so far as in him lies in the face of his people to raise a cloud and exhale a vapour To interpose betwixt the King and his Subjects whereby the splendor of his Glory and Justice cannot be discovered to his people My Lords what is it else when the people make complaint against the Ministers that should execute justice of their oppression and slavery and bondage For the Minister when he is questioned to justify this under the Kings Authority what is it I say but as much as in that Minister lies
to fix this offence to fasten this oppression upon the King himself to make it to be believed that the occasion of these their groans proceeded from His Sacred Majesty yet God be thanked the strength of that Sun is powerful enough to dispel these vapours and to disperse the cloud that he would have raised but in the mean time my Lord is nothing to be excused My Lords he may pretend zeal to the Kings Service and affection to His Honor but give me leave not to believe it since when he is questioned by all the Kings people and in the face of his people and offences laid to his charge which himself now confesses to be against Law he should justify it under the Kings authority that savours not of a good servant I will say no more My Lords he is charged with exercising a tyrannical power over the Kings people and in his Defence your Lordships have often heard and I may not omit it that he shelters himself under the protection of the Kings Prerogative though he be charged with Tyranny of the highest nature that may be see then how foul and malignant an aspect this hath My Lords what is it else but to endeavour as much as in him lies to infuse into the Kings heart an apprehension that His Prerogative is so bottomless a Gulf so unlimited a Power as is not to be comprehended within the rules of Law or within the bounds of Government for else why should he mention the Prerogative when he is charged to exceed the Law What is it else but as far as in him lies to make the people believe for I may not forget the words he hath used by his magnifying of the Prerogative that it hath a special stamp of Divinity on it and that the other part of the Government that God pleases to put into the Kings hands had not that stamp upon it as if any thing done by one was to be justified by authority derived from Heaven but the other not These expressions your Lordships remember and I may not omit to put your Lordships in mind of them and I can expound them no otherwise than as much as in him lies to make the subject believe and apprehend that which is the buckler and defence of his protection to be the two-edged sword of his destruction according to the Doctrine he Preached and that that which is the Sanctuary of their Liberty is the snare and engine of their slavery And thus he hath cast a bone of contention as much as in him lay betwixt King and People to make the Subjects loath that glorious Flower of his Crown by fixing a jealousie in them that it may be a means of their bondage and slavery But there is so much Piety and Goodness in the Kings heart that I hope upon fair understanding there will be no such occasion but no thanks to the party that so much advanced the Prerogative in the case and condition he stands in to justify that which is laid to his Charge of High Treason My Lords I beseech you give me leave there is no greater safety to Kings and People than to have the Throne incircled with good Counsellors and no greater danger to both than to have it encompassed with wicked and dangerous ones and yet I beseech you call to mind how he hath attempted to deprive the Subject of all means to discover this danger by insinuating to your Lordships what a dangerous thing it were if Counsellors should be called in question for giving of Counsel for who then saith he would be a Counsellor where is your safeguard where is the Kings service Is not this as much as in him lies to deprive the people of the means whereby they must make themselves happy and whereby the King must be happy that is by his having good Counsellors about him and yet he infuses that venom that the questioning of Counsellors is dangerous both to King and Peers if it should be brought into example My Lords for many years by-past your Lordships know an evil spirit hath moved amongst us which in truth hath been made the Author and ground of all our distractions and that is necessity and danger this was the bulwarke and the battery that serves to defend all exorbitant actions the ground and foundation of that great invasion of our Liberties and Estates the judgement in the Ship-money and the ground of the Counsel given of late to do any thing and to perswade the King that he was absolved from all rules of Government and yet your Lordships have observed in the course of his defence how often he hath raised this spirit that God be thanked hath been laid to the great comfort of King and Kingdom by your Lordships and all the Commons in Parliament And when he stands under this question and goes about to justify his exorbitant actions how often hath he created this Idol again and therefore I am afraid he discovers too much his own heart in it My Lords I may not omit some other passages in his Defence How he hath cast scandals upon three Nations in this place that is in his first day of Defence when the Irish Remonstrance made by all the Commons of Ireland was produced by the Commons of England he expressed in a passion that things were carried against him by faction and correspondence and if he had time he would make it appear with a strong conspiracy Here is a scandal cast upon the Parliament of Ireland with a reflection on the Commons of England howsoever it is true your Lordships may remember the recantation he made that day which I will not omit desiring not to lay any thing to his charge but what is true but it is the reflection of a scandal that I cannot omit to put your Lordships in mind of and the rather because this Remonstrance presented from the Parliament of Ireland did bear date before my Lord of Strafford was charged here which is very remarkable viz. the 7th of November and therefore though he pretends a correspondence certainly there could be none then for he is not charged here till the Tenth And the same day justifying a Sentence in the Castle-Chamber your Lordships remember he affirmed that unless a strict hand were kept upon the Nation there they would find it hard to prevent perjury one of the most crying sins in Ireland Now to lay an aspersion upon the Subjects of Ireland being under the Government of the same King with us how fit this is to be done by a man in that condition that my Lord of Strafford is I referr to your consideration Another passage I remember whereby in his Defence he fell upon that Nation in answer of which I may not omit to do the service I owe to the Commons for whom I am trusted and that is that talking of an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government in reference to some Orders of the Commons-House in Ireland he used words to this purpose You
a distance march on a sudden to London and surprize what they had in Design That Mr Iermin was the person that first proposed the marching of the Army towards London That he for his part declared himself absolutely against it That Mr. Iermin replyed to him in private You do not dislike the Design for you are as ready for any wild mad undertaking as any man I know but you dislike the temper of those persons who are ingaged in the business He did further confess That he propounded that Suckling might also be admitted to the Consultation but Wilmot Ashburnham and Pollard would not hear of it and they three did then declare themselves against the Armys marching towards London Then he took occasion to say That he did acquaint some Members of both Houses whom he could name that there were some of the Army whom they did not think so well of were more faithful and serviceable to the Parliament than they were aware of which time would produce and named them and they did accordingly give testimony of his Integrity so far as general Terms could discover the design He confessed that Mr. Iermin did make some offers unto him to relinquish the Government of Portsmouth upon some other terms of advantage but he said he did not conclude any thing for he would first see the performance of what was offered so had no further discourse with him concerning that business but he doth believe that Suckling and Iermin did confer together about the Design he said they did desire his opinion about a General some were for Essex some for Holland but he with Iermin were for Newcastle Being again examined upon his Oath before the Committee of Lords and Commons and pressed more particularly to answer questions not before proposed unto him He did confess that meeting with Mr. Iermin in the Queens Drawing-Chamber Her Majesty came and told him the King would speak with him and meeting with His Majesty he told him he was minded to set His Army into a good posture being advised thereto by the Earl of Bristol as he said and His Majesty then Commanded him to joyn with Mr. Peircy and some others in that business As for the Designs from beyond Seas the Committee did make Report to the House that it was clear'd unto them that Iermin endeavoured to have got the possession of Portsmouth That the King of France had drawn down great Forces to the Sea-side That the Governor of Calice had examined some Englishmen whether the Earl of Straffords Head was yet off and this was in point of time the First of May according to the English stile and Sir Philip Cartwright Governor of Guernsey wrote Letters also which came in great haste That he understood the French had a Design upon that Island or some part of England It also appeared to the Committee by divers of the Letters which were opened coming from beyond Sea that they expected the Earl of Strafford there and that they hoped the Horseleeches should be starved for want of Blood and in some of those Letters there was advice to the Cardinal to bestir himself betimes to interrupt the height of the proceedings here in England Also examination of some Priests were taken in Lancashire and sent up to London which were there taken the 3 of May which did testify That the Priests did say The Parliament should be suddenly Dissolved for the Army was to march up thither with all speed and they would be seconded by Forces out of France and that Mountague did write out of France to Mr Peircy which was also intercepted That if he did perform what he had undertaken he would be made a Knight of the Garter Mr. Peircys Letter to the Earl of Northumberland and by him presented to the Parliament WHat with my own Innocency and the Violence I hear is against me I find my self much distracted I will not ask your Counsel because it may bring prejudice upon you but I will with all Faithfulness and Truth tell you what my part hath been that at least it may be cleared by you whatsoever becomes of me When there was 50000 l. designed by the Parliament for the English Army there was as I take it a suddain Demand by the Scots at the same time of 25000 l of which there was 15000 l. ready this they pressed with much necessity so as the Parliament did after an Order made think it fit for them to Reduct 10000 l. out of the 50000 l. formerly granted upon which the Soldiers in our House were much scandalized amongst which was one and sitting by Wilmot and Ashburnham Wilmot stood up and told them If that the Scots could procure Money he doubted not but the Officers of the English Army might easily do the like but the first Order was reversed notwithstanding and 10000 l given to the Scots this was the cause of many discourses of dislike among us and came to this purpose That they were disobliged by the Parliament and not by the King this being said often to one another we did Resolve that Wilmot Ashburnham Pollard O-Neal and my Self to make some expressions of serving the King in all things he would Command us that were Honourable for Him and us being likewise agreeing to the fundamental Laws of the Kingdom that so far we would live and dye with him This was agreed upon with us not having any communication with others that I am coupled now with all and further by their joynt consent I was to tell His Majesty thus much from them but withal I was to order the matter so as the King might apprehend this as a great Service done unto him at this time that when affairs were in so ill a condition and they were most confident they would ingage the whole Army thus far but further they would undertake nothing because they would neither infringe the Liberty of the Subjects nor destroy the Laws to which I and every one consented and having their sence I drew the Heads up in a Paper which they all approved of when I read it and then we did by an Oath promise one another to be constant and secret in all this and did all of us take this Oath together then I said Well Sirs I must now be informed what your particular desires are that so I may be the better able to serve you which they were pleased to do and so I did very faithfully serve them therein as far as I could This is the Truth and all the Truth upon my Soul In particular discourses after that we did fall upon the petitioning to the King and Parliament for Moneys there being so great Arrears due to us and so much delays made in the procuring of them but that was never done The Heads were these 1. Concerning the Bishops Functions and Votes 2. The not disbanding of the Irish Army until the Scots were disbanded to 3. The endeavouring to settle His Majesties Revenue to that proportion it was
House resolved presently to send 12 of the Peers Messengers to the King humbly to signifie That neither of the Two Intentions expressed in the Letter could with duty in them or without danger to Himself his dearest Consort the Queen and all the Young Princes their Children possibly be Advised all which being done accordingly and the Reasons shewed to His Majesty He suffered no more words to come from them but out of the fulness of His heart to the observance of Justice and for the Contentment of His People told them That what He intended by His Letter was with an if if it might be done without Discontentment of His People if that cannot be I say again the same I Writ Fiat Justitia My other Intnetion proceeding out of Charity for a few days Respite was upon certain Information that his Estate was so distracted that it necessarily required some few days for settlement thereof Whereunto the Lords Answered Their purpose was to be Suitors to His Majesty for favour to be shewed to his Innocent Children and if himself had made any provision for them the same might hold This was well-liking unto His Majesty who thereupon departed from the Lords At His Majesties parting they offered up into His hands the Letter it self which He had sent but He was pleased to say My Lords What I have Written to you I shall be content it be Registred by you in your House In it you see my mind I hope you will use it to my Honour This upon return of the Lords from the King was presently Reported to the House by the Lord Privy-Seal and Ordered that these Lines should go out with the Kings Letter if any Copies of the Letter were dispersed The House being informed That the Queen-Mother apprehending Her self in some danger by reason that divers words were scattered among the Tumultuous Assembly as if they had some design upon Her Person and those Priests which she had for Her own Houshold desired a Guard for Her Security Concluded that as to the Security of Her own Person they were bound in honour not to suffer any Violence to be done unto Her and so referred it to a Committee to consider what was fit to be done in order thereto Which being Reported by Mr. Henry Martyn he declared That the Committee had duely considered Her Majesties just Fears and therefore should agree to all good ways and means that might conduce to the safety of her Person But fearing that the said means may notwithstanding prove ineffectual for Her Protection That therefore the House would intreat the Lords to joyn with them humbly to beseech His Majesty That the Queen Mother may be moved to depart the Kingdom the rather for the Quieting of those Jealousies in the Hearts of His Majesties well-affected Subjects occasioned by some ill Instruments about the said Queens Person by the flocking of Priests and Papists to Her House and by the Use and Practice of the Idolatry of the Mass. Wednesday the 12th of May. THe Earl of Strafford was brought from the Tower to the Scaffold upon Tower-Hill where the Bishop of Armagh the Earl of Cleeveland Sir George VVentworth Brother to the said Earl of Strafford and others of his Friends were present to take their Leaves of him But before he fitted himself to Prostrate his Body to Execution he desired patience of the People to hear him speak a few words which the Author took from his Mouth being then there on the Scaffold with him viz. MY Lord Primate of Ireland and my Lords and the rest of these Noble Gentlemen It is a great Comfort to me to have your Lordships by me this day because I have been known to you a long time and I now desire to be heard a few words I come here my Lords to pay my last Debt to Sin which is Death And through the Mercies of God to rise again to Eternal Glory My Lords if I may use a few words I shall take it as a great Curtesie from you I come here to submit to the Judgment that is passed against me I do it with a very quiet and contented Mind I do freely forgive all the World a forgiveness not from the Teeth outward as they say but from my heart I speak in the presence of Almighty God before whom I stand that there is not a displeasing thought that ariseth in me against any Man I thank God I say truly my Conscience beares me Witness that in all the Honor I had to serve His Majesty I had not any Intention in my heart but what did aime at the Joynt and Individual prosperity of the King and His People although it be my ill hap to be misconstrued I am not the first Man that hath suffered in this kind It is a Common Portion that befalls men in this Life Righteous Judgment shall be hereafter here we are subject to Error and Misjudging one another One thing I desire to be heard in and do hope that for Christian Charities sake I shall be believed I was so far from being against Parliaments that I did always think Parliaments in England to be the happy Constitution of the Kingdom and Nation and the best means under God to make the King and His people happy As for my Death I do here acquit all the World and beseech God to forgive them In particular I am very glad His Majesty conceives me not meriting so severe and heavy a punishment as the utmost Execution of this Sentence I do infinitely rejoyce in it and in that Mercy of His and do beseech God to Return Him the same that He may find Mercy when He hath most need of it I wish this Kingdom all prosperity and happiness in the World I did it Living and now Dying it is my Wish I profess heartily my apprehension and do humbly recommend it to you and wish that every Man would lay his hand on his heart and consider seriously Whether the beginning of the peoples Happiness should be Written in Letters of Blood I fear they are in a Wrong Way I desire Almighty God that no one drop of my Blood rise up in judgement against them I have but one word more and that is for my Religion My Lord of Armagh I do profess my self seriously faithfully and truly to be an obedient Son of the Church of England In that Church I was born and bred in that Religion I have lived and now in that I dye Prosperity and Happiness be ever to it It hath been said I was inclined to Popery if it be an Objection worth the answering let me say truly from my heart that since I was Twenty one years of age unto this day going on 49 years I never had thought or doubt of the truth of this Religion nor had ever any the boldness to suggest to me the contrary to my best remembrance And so being reconciled to the Mercies of Jesus Christ my Saviour into whose bosom I
have said he freely concluded our Libertys we have offered Five Subsidys His Majesty hath given us Gracious Answers and nothing is done that the King can take notice of c. Hereupon Sir Tho. Wentworth proposed a middle way viz. That when we set down the time be sure the Subjects Libertys go hand in hand together with the Kings Supply then to resolve of the time but not to report it to the House till we have a ground and a Bill for our Liberties This is the way to come off fairly and prevent jealousies Hereupon the Committee of the whole House Resolved That Grievances and Supply goe hand in hand May 1. 4 Car. MR. Secretary Cook delivered a Message from His Majesty viz. To know whether the House would relye on His Royal Word or no Declared to them by the Lord Keeper which if they do the King assured them it should be Royally performed Sir Robert Phillips of Somersetshire spake upon this occasion and said That if the words of Kings strike impressions in the Hearts of Subjects to speak in a plain Language said he We are now come to the end of our journey and the well disposing of an Answer to this Message will give Happiness or Misery to this Kingdom Let us set the Common-wealth of England before the Eyes of His Majesty that we may justify to the world that we have demeaned our selves as dutiful Subjects to His Majesty Hereupon Sir Thomas Wentworth stood up and concluded the Debate saying That never House of Parliament trusted more in the goodness of their King for their own private than the present but we are ambitious that His Majestys goodness may remain to Posterity and we are accountable to publique Trust and therefore seeing there hath been a publique violation of the Laws by His Ministers nothing will satisfy him but a publique Mends and to our desire vindicate the Subjects Rights by Bill is no more than is laid down in former Laws with some modest provision for Restriction Performance and Execution and this so well agreed with the sense of the House that they made it the subject of a Message to be delivered by the Speaker to His Majesty Whilst the Lords afterwards were in Debate of the Petition of Right they were pleased at a Conference to propose to the Commons this following addition to the Petition of Right viz. 1. We present this our Humble Petition to Your Majesty with the care not only of preserving our own Liberties but with due regard to leave intire the Sovereign Power wherewith Your Majesty is trusted for the Protection Safety and Happiness of the People Upon this Sir Edward Cook spake saving This is Magnum in Parvo This is propounded to be a conclusion of our Petition it is a matter of great weight and to speak plainly it will overthrow all our Petition it trenches on all parts of it Look into the Petition of former times they never Petitioned wherein there was a saving of the Kings Sovereignty I know the Prerogative is part of the Law but Sovereign Power is no Parliamentary word c. Sir Thomas Wentworth spake next and said IF we do admit of this Addition we shall leave the Subjects worse than we found them and we shall have little thanks for our labour when we come home let us leave all Power to His Majesty to punish Malefactors but these Laws are not acquainted with Sovereign Power we desire no new thing nor do we offer to trench upon His Majestys Prerogative we may not recede from this Petition neither in part or in whole To add a saving is not safe doubtful words may beget an ill construction and the words are not only doubtful words but words unknown to us and never asked in one Act or Petition before 2. Now he began to be more generally taken notice of by all men and his Fame to spread abroad where publique Affairs and the Criticismes of the times were discoursed by the most refined Judgments those who were infected with popularity flattering themselves that he was inclined to support their inclination and would prove a Champion upon that account but such discourse as it endeared him to his Countrey so it begot to him an interest in the bosom of his Prince who having a discerning Judgment of Men quickly made his observation of Wentworth that he was a person framed for great affairs and fit to be near His Royal Person and Councils About this time in the heat of so general a report of him Sir Richard Weston then Lord High Treasurer after Earl of Portland a person also eminent for his acute and clear parts coveted acquaintance with this Gentleman and there not being wanting discreet Agents to accomplish what my Lord Treasurer desired it was soon effected After the first view a familiarity was begotten and next a deep friendship It happened that in some Conferences they touched upon the popular Humor as they termed it then appearing in the House of Commons and the present ways they were in as tending to no good he proposed the most rational and plausible mediations that could be for the present juncture of affairs in somuch that his judgment in things was much valued and followed In some time after he was made Baron Wentworth and had so gained His Majesties opinion that he was also created Viscount Wentworth of Wentworth-Woodhouse made one of His Majestys Privy Council Lord-Lieutenant of the County of York and Lord-President of the North In this Trust he Governed himself with such skill especially in those high contested points then in consultation that he pleased his Prince and improved His Majesties Revenue His frequent appearance at the Council-Board quickly gave occasion to that Great Prelate Archbishop Laud then Bishop of London and himself to discern one anothers parts begetting a right understanding betwixt them which grew into so inviolable a friendship that nothing but the inevitable stroke of death could separate them who whilst they lived constantly united their great Hearts and Understandings for the advancing the Church and the service of their Prince The Cedar was still growing though perhaps to the dislike of some Emulators yet to the general satisfaction of all such as had ability enough to judge of his Parts His next advance was to be Lord-Deputy and Chief Governor of Ireland The affairs of that Realm being in much disorder by the temper of the Popish party there who did not with moderation make use of the Kings Clemency to them in relaxation of the rigor of some penal Statutes He began with the Church in the Reformation of his Kingdom and first procured of the King by the joynt mediation of the Archbishop That all the Impropriations then in the Crown would be restored to the Church in that Nation though to some diminution of the Royal Revenue and advanced Learned men whose Judgments were for Episcopacy He raised in Ireland Eight Regiments for the Kings service each consisting of 1000 men in Ten
great Piety he did publiquely express it when His own Sacred Life was taken away by the most detestable Traytors that ever were For all which Causes be it Declared and Enacted by the Kings most Excellent Majesty by and with the Advice and Consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in this present Parliament Assembled That the Act Entituled An Act for the Attainder of Thomas Earl of Strafford of High Treason and all and every Clause and Article and thing therein contained being obtained as aforesaid is now hereby Repealed Revoked and Reversed And to the end that Right be done to the memory of the deceased Earl of Strafford aforesaid Be it further Enacted That all Records and Proceedings of Parliament relating to the said Attainder be wholly Cancell'd and taken off the File or otherwise Defaced and Obliterated to the intent the same may not be visible in after ages or brought into example to the prejudice of any person whatsoever Provided That this Act shall not extend to the future questioning of any person or persons however concerned in this business or who had any hand in the tumults or disorderly procuring the Act aforesaid Any thing herein contained to the contrary thereof notwithstanding THE TABLE A. ABstract of the Earls Answer to the 28 Articles Pa. 22. to 30 Account Introductive of several Passages previous to the Tryal of Thomas Earl of Strafford p. 1. Accusation of High Treason of Thomas Earl of Strafford p. 3. Accusation of Sir George Ratcliffe p. 4. Act of Attainder at large 756. Mr. St. Johns Argument of Law concerning the same 675. to 705. It is read a Second time 47. Lord Digby's Speech to that Bill 50. Exceptions taken thereat by some Members 55 Act of Attainder as also the Act for continuance of this present Parliament past the Lords 755 A Message to the Lords to send to His Majesty for His consent to the Bill of Attainder and the continuance of this present Parliament 755. Act of Reversal of this Bill of Attainder 778 Adjournment of the Commons upon the Kings Speech May 1. 735. Answer of the Earl read containing 200 sheets of Paper 22. Army in Ireland new levied to be disbanded 18 and 42 Eight Articles against the Earl in maintainance of his Accusation 8 9. Articles of High Treason voted against Sir George Ratcliffe 17. Twenty eight Articles against the Earl sent up to the Lords 20. They are at large inserted 61. Article II. read charging the Earl with words saying The Kings little finger should be heavier than the loins of the Law c. 149. Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exception taken Interlocutory Passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 149 to 155. Artice III. read charging him with words saying That Ireland was a conquered Nation that the King might do with it as he pleased 155 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exception taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 156 to 172 Artic. IV. read charging him with words that he would make all Ireland know That any Act of State there made should be as binding as an Act of Parliament 173. Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 174 to 185. Article V. read charging him that he did procure to be given against the Lord Mountnorris sentence of death in a Council of War 186 and the sentence read 187. Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 188 to 204. Article VI. read charging him with putting the Lord Mountnorris out of possession of his Freehold upon a Paper-Petition 205. Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Aticle 205 to 213. Article VIII read Charging him with causing the Lord Loftus Lord Chancellor of Ireland to be close prisoner 221. Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 222 to 235. Article IX read Charging him with assuming a Power above Law to give a general Warrant to the Bishops Officers to Arrest the Body of such as do not obey Ecclesiastical Decrees Sentences c. and to commit them and a Copy produced 236 237. Passages Interlocutory Defence and Reply 238 to 240. Article X. read Wherein he is charged with procuring the Customs to be Farmed to his own use and did procure the Native Commodities of Ireland to be rated in the Book of Rates for the Customs 241 The Case stated by Mr. Maynard 242 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 243 to 250 Article XI Agreed for the present to be laid aside 252 Article XII read Charging him with making a Monopoly of Tobacco getting the whole Trade into his hands 401 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 402 to 412 Article XIII read Charging him with getting great quantities of Flax into his hands enjoyning the working thereof into Yarn and Thread c. 416 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 416 to 428 Article XIV Laid aside for the present 425 Article XV. read Charging the Earl with imposing great sums of Money upon people without Warrant or colour of Law and causing the same to be levied by Troops of Soldiers 426 The Charge opened by Mr. Geoffrey Palmer 427 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 427 to 454 c. Article XVI read charging him with putting forth a Proclamation commanding the Nobility c. not to depart that Kingdom without his Licence 460 The Article opened by Mr. Palmer who proceeded to manage the Evidence 461 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages Defence and Reply as to that Article 462 to 481 Interlocutory passages after the Reply 484 to 487 Article XIX read Charging him that he did with his own Authority contrive and frame a new and universal Oath against the Scots in Ireland 489 The Article opened by Mr. Whitlock 490 The Oath tendred to the Scots read 494 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exceptions taken Interlocutory passages and Defence 494 to 498 More Interlocutory passages 499 to 502 The Oath tendred to some of the Scotch Nation refident in England 503 The Reply to the Earls Defence 508 Article XX. read Charging him with endeavouring to perswade and provoke His Majesty to an Offensive War against His Subjects of Scotland c. 515 Article XXI read Charging him with compelling His Majesty to call a Parliament in England with design to break the same and by Force and Power to raise Money 516 Article XXII read Charging him to have procured the Parliament in Ireland to declare their assistance in a War against the Scots and to raise an Army of 8000 Foot and 1000 Horse
9 Free Conference concerning the said Articles 9 A select Committee agreed upon for the Examination of Witnesses concerning him 10 Members of both Houses to be examined concerning him 14 15 16 Parliament of Ireland their Petition to the King against him 15 Sir George Ratcliffe not to speak with him 15 Scotch Commissioners to bring in their charge and Proofs against him 18 See the Charge 769 Conference to Sequester him from his Offices 20 Debate about admitting him Council at his Trial 21 His Answer read containing 200 sheets of Paper 22 Abstract of his Answer to the 28 Articles 22 unto 30 The Evidence against him to be managed by a Committee of the House of Commons 32 No Replication to be put in unto his Answer ibid. The Commons aver the Charge against him and will manage the Evidence by Members of their own the Names of the Members to that purpose appointed 33 A Committee of 48 of the Commons appointed to meet a Committee of 24 of the Lords at a free Conference concerning his Tryal 33 Conference as to place of Tryal Persons present Council and management of Evidence against him 34 unto 37 Protestation entred in the Lords House denying that they did approve of his raising Money in Yorkshire 37 38 Resolved that the Commons be present as a Committee of the whole House at his Tryal c. 38 Some Members appointed to view the place for his Trial 39 His Petition to examine some Members of this House read 40 The manner of his coming to his Tryal in Westminster-Hall 41 The manner of bringing him into the Hall the Ax not being suffered to be carried before him till after Tryal 41 Suffrages in matters criminal declined to be given by the Bishops entring their Protestation c 41 The House to meet at Two in the afternoon constantly during the Tryal 42 His Exceptions and frequent Adjournment of the Lords House occasioned thereby with other unnecessary delays reported how to prevent the same 43 A Peremptory day to be appointed for him to conclude his Tryal 44 Both Houses agree that if the Earl come not to morrow the Commons may sum up their Evidence and conclude 45. Resolved by the Lords that to morrow be recollect his Evidence which being done the Managers are to state theirs 47 The Act of Attainder read a Second time and referred to a Committee of the whole House ibid. The Council appointed by the Lords to be here to morrow morning concerning matter of Law 47 Resolved that it is sufficiently proved that he hath endeavoured to subvert the antient and Fundamental Laws of the Realms of England Scotland and Ireland and to introduce Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government against Law 48 Lord High Steward his Speech unto him the first day of Tryal 101 The Impeachment against him read 101 The-Speech Introductive of Mr. Pym concerning the Preamble to his Answer 102 Lord Digby's Speech to the Bill of Attainder 50 Names of Witnesses their Evidence Exception taken Interlocutory Passages Defence and Reply 109 c. Sentence against the Lord Montnorris read 187 Some Interlocutory Passages and Speeches in the Petition of Right made by him in Parliament much notice thereof being taken by the Court 763 His Confinement in Kent for refusing Lone-Money 763 Complained of at Court for frequenting Archbishop Abbots Table with Sir Dudly Digs c. 764 Sentence against the Lord Montnorris read 187 Earl of Straffords Summary Account of his Evidence 633 to 660 The Speech of Mr. Pym thereupon 661 to 674 Mr. Glyn's Reply to the Earls Summary of his Evidenee 706 to 733 King's Speech in favour of the Earl 734 The Earls Letter to him to set His Majesties Conscience at Liberty 743 Concerning an endeavour for the Earl to escape out of the Tower 746 Sir John Suckling voted Guilty of Treason 754 The Earl brought to the Scaffold his Speech then 759 Copy of the Paper containing the heads of his last Speech written with his own Hand and left on the Scaffold 760 He desires before he dies to speak with the Archbishop of Canterbury but refused 762 He sees the Archbishop the next morning at his window as he was going to the Scaffold and desires his Blessing 762 He went to the Scaffold more like a General at the Head of an Army after obtaining Conquest in Battel than like a man going to execution by Death 762 His Instructions to his Son in Writing ibid. A Description of his Person and an account of the Noble Relations to his Family 772 A brief Account of his Secretary Mr. Slingsby and of his death by having his Legs cut off above the knees 773 His Letter to his Secretary before his death 774 The King's Reflections upon the Earls death 775 T. TAx imposed on the Subjects see Art 27 598 Tobacco made a Monopoly see Art 12. 402 Westminster-Hall the place of Tryal appointed to be viewed by Members 39 The fitness thereof reported by Sir John Culpeper ibid. The First day of Tryal March 22. 1640. 101 102 c. The manner of his coming to Tryal 41 U ULster the place of Rendezvous for the Irish Army in fight of Scotland 769 Ungirding of the Scotch Army 770 W SIr Christopher Wandesford made Lord Deputy of Ireland by the Earl 769 Warrant given to Officers of the Ecclesiastical Courts to Attach and commit persons see Art 9. 236 Warrant produced 237. Sir Richard Weston Lord Treasurer first courted the Earl after the Dissolution of the Parliament 4 Car. 1. 768 Sir Iohn Winter to be removed from Court 42 Some Lords desired to be made use of as Witnesses 49 Earl of Worcester and his Sons Commission for levying of Forces to be drawn into the charge of the Earl of Strafford 19 Words spoken tending to the bringing of the Irish Army into England 46 725 Words wherewith the Earl was charged in several Articles of Impeachment see Art FINIS See Historical Collections the First Part. Pa. 500. Resolved to Accuse the E. of strafford of High Treason Report of the Message of High Treason Message of Sequestration of E. of Strafford The Lord Keeper to the E. of Strafford Message from the Lords Conference that Ports of Ireland shall be open Committee how to send for Sir George Ratcliff Mr. Speaker to sit at the Grand Committee for Irish Affairs Irish Affairs Committee concerning the Earl of Strafford Resolutions thereupon Sir Robert King to be sent for Expedition Mr. Treasurer Reports the Message from the King No Member to visit the Earl of Strafford without leave Message to the Lords for a Committee to examine Witnesses Approbation of the Lords Petitioners for a Parliament Petition to be Entred Speedy examinations against the Earl of Strafford by Members of both Houses Committee to search Attainders Report Irish Remonstrance Book of Petitions sent for over Warrants for Taxes upon Tobacco Entries of Impositions Articles against the Earl of Strafford Articles to be engrossed Conference concerning the Earl of Strafford's Articles
words spoke at a private Table half a year yea seven months before my Lord of Strafford calls a Councel of War and judges his Lordship to death My Lords It is no wonder that he would make the Kings little Finger so heavy that could make his own Toe heavy enough to tread the Life of a Peer under his Feet And he did not only give Sentence in that Case but caused Execution to be done in another Case upon one D. who was condemned by Martial Law and hanged at Dublin where there was no War at all Other particulars will follow when I fall upon proof 9. Then he comes to make Laws and that is in the 9th Article By the Laws of England and Ireland too the Ecclesiastical Power is distinct from the other it not extending to the Imprisonment of the Person but is to attend the Kings Courts and to receive directions from thence yet he makes a Warrant to the Bishop of Downe and he made it to others too That if any of the poorer sort did not appear upon the Bishops Citation or not obey when they did appear they should be Attached and Imprisoned Here he makes a Law of himself and subjects the Liberties of the Subjects to his own Pleasure but this was for the poorer sort of People though Justice sees no difference in matters of Estate betwixt Poor or Rich But when he hath brought it on the Poor he will afterwards bring it on the Rich. 10. The next is a Power of laying Impositions on the Subjects First he is a Farmer of the Customs he puts excessive Rates upon the Commodities that which is worth but 5 s. as the Hydes he will have valued at 20 s. and the Wool which is worth 5 s. he will have it valued at 13 s. 4 d. and by this he takes away in effect whatsoever the Commodity is worth for the Customs come very near the Value Another particular in this I shall be bold to open and I hope his Lordship will provide to give an Answer He hath advanced by this the Kings Customs and a Rent of 1350 l. is increased to the Crown But it will appear to Your Lordships that the Crown hath lost and he only hath gained And whereas my Lord of Strafford says there was no other Defalcations in his Patent than in the former that will fall out to be otherwise for this is the State of the bargain There was a former Rent of 9700 l. which the Duke of Buckingham paid out of this Farm On the Earl of Straffords Patent that Rent is reserved and as much as came to 1350 l. more but in lieu of 1350 l. advanced to the King my Lord of Strafford hath in his Grant the Surplusage of Wines which were not in the Dukes Patent worth 3400 l. a year besides a Rent paid for the Term of the Wine of 1400 l. And whereas there was no defalcation of the Customs of London Derry and Colerane in the Dukes Lease which amounted to 1500 l. a year my Lord of Strafford must have a defalcation for them And then the Seizures which were 500 l. a year and for Knockvergus and Straniford 2500 l. a year so here is above 5000 l. a year less to the Crown in lieu of the advance of 1350 l. a year besides the increased Customs amounting to 12000 l. a year And yet he again hath far exceeded this proportion We say further he doth not only impose on the Subjects but takes away that which is the Subjects utterly and entirely as in the case of the Flax. It is true the Employment of it belongs to Women but it is the greatest Commodity one of them of that Kingdom and of greatest profit the Revenue of the Custom of it being 800 l. a year and this he hath gotten into his own hands and possession This he got from the Natives and took it to himself He doth for that purpose issue a Proclamation That they shall use it in such a way wherein the Natives were unskill'd and if it were not so done it should be seized and it was seized accordingly yea their Houses broke open and their Goods taken away and brought to my Lord of Straffords house where they were employed in his works The like we shall instance in Tobacco 15. Next we shall shew to Your Lordships how he hath levied War upon the Kings Subjects We opened in the beginning what an Arbitrary Jurisdiction he set up here we shall shew how he used it by a meer course of Enmity and Hostility For My Lords this was the course If a Decree or Order were made by him and not obeyed he issues a Warrant to the Sergeant at Arms to go to the next Garrison and take Soldiers with an Officer and carry them to the House of the party in question it is no matter where it was but to the House of them that were pretended to be disobedient they were to go If the Decree had been to raise so much money or to put parties in possession In plain terms the Soldiers were to lye like Free-booters and Enemies on the King's People to eat them up They have killed their Sheep their Oxen and they have lain not on the parties only but on their Tenants till the party comes in and renders himself They have burnt their Houses taken their Wives and Friends and carried them away till Obedience was rendered and this is a levying of War upon the King For the King and the People are both so united in Affection and Right of Law that there cannot be Violence offered to the King but it redounds to the People nor can any Oppress the People in this sort but it redounds to His Majesty Besides it is contrary to a Law of that Kingdom whereby it is Enacted That if any person shall assess Horse or Foot on any of the Kings People without their consent it is High Treason The next thing we shall go to is the Favour he shewed to the Papists in their Compositions and Exemptions from all penalties of Law for they were expresly not to be proceeded against nor to be Convicted and so that which hath influence into Religion and Reformation is quite taken away and nothing but matter of Profit is left The next Article is that that concerns the Kingdom of Scotland First he begins with them in Ireland contrives an Oath which is set forth in the Articles That they shall obey the Kings Royal Commands without exception This he enforceth by Fining and Imprisoning them that disobeyed him And so in all the other particulars when his Proclamations were broken his course was by Fine and Imprisonment to enforce an Obedience My Lords He doth not only press them in their Estates but strives to infuse into His Majesty an ill Opinion of them he provokes and incites Him by all his Arguments to lay down his Mercy and Goodness and Justice and to fall into an offensive War against that Kingdom He gives out that