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A52708
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The Catholick answer to the seekers request in a letter directed to the seeker, proving the real presence, by the Scripture only
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N. N.
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1687
(1687)
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Wing N30; ESTC R43473
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5,026
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10
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Evidence of Truth and as I conceive Your Design is to hear the Evidence and not the Parties by what You say Pag. 7. Without troubling Our selves to tell You the meaning on 't to which I submit as near as possible tho' let me tell You 't is a little hard of Our side that You will not hear Our other Witnesses who are without Number in all Ages since Christ that have Believed and Taught this very Doctrine of the Real Presence as We of the Catholick Church do now Believe and Teach it But to Your Request These are the Texts which I Produce of the Catholick Part to prove Our said Affirmative And First I prove Christ's Promise before He Instituted the Sacrament that He would give us the Bread to Eat which came down from Heaven and that The Bread which he would give us was his Flesh which he would give for the Life of the World. St. John Chap. 6. Vers 48. I am that Bread of Life says Christ 49. Your Fathers did Eat Manha in the Wilderness and are Dead 50. This is the Bread which cometh down from Heaven that a Man may Eat thereof and not Die. 51. I am the Living Bread which came down from Heaven if any Man Eat of this Bread he shall Live for ever and the Bread that I will give is My Flesh which I will give for the Life of the World. 54. Whoso Eateth My Flesh and Drinketh My Blood hath Eternal Life and I will raise him up at the last Day 55. For My Flesh is Meat indeed and My Blood is Drink indeed 56. He that Eateth My Flesh and Drinketh My Blood dwelleth in Me and I in him 57. As the Living Father hath sent Me and I live by the Father he that Eateth Me even he shall live by Me. 58. This is that Bread which came down from Heaven not as your Fathers did Eat Manna and are Dead He that Eateth of this Bread shall live for ever But as He saith Ver. 64. there are some of you that Believe not Which some of Unvelievers is since encreased by the numerous Off-springs of the Pretended Reformation-Lady For Protestants now like Murmuring Jews then strive Ibid Cap. Ver. 52. Amongst themselves saying How can this Man give us his Flesh to Eat And as the Disciples murmur'd then who Ver. 60. said This is an hard saying who can hear it And from that time ver 66 Went back and Walked no more with Him So Protestants who before were of Us do now go back with their How can this be 'T is an hard saying Who can either hear or believe it and for this cause Walk no more with us But unto Protestants as unto murmuring Jews our Saviour Answers and saith John 6. ver 53. Verily verily I say unto you Except ye Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink his Blood ye have no Life in you And unto Protestants as unto the Unbelieving Disciples For Jesus knew from the Beginning ver 64 who they were that Believed not and who should Betray him saith ver 61 62. Doth this Offend you What if ye shall sâ—â— the Son of Man Ascend up where he was before For that the Doctrine of the Resurrection was of more difficulty to be Believed than this of giving us Bread to Eat which should be his Flesh and to shew the World that He meant as He said He suffers all sorts of Murmurers Jews Disciples and Protestants to go back and walk no more with Him without so much as telling them 't was but a Parable or a Figure of his Body or the like But to the contrary confirms it Ver. 63. It is the Spirit that quickeneth the Flesh profitteth nothing the words that I spake unto you tâ—ey are Spirit and they are Life For if We were not Quickened by the Spirit to Believe We might like Jews and Protestants murmur too For tho' the Flesh of Christ did infinitely profit Salvation unto Us yet Our Flesh profitteth not this Faith in Us to Believe whereby Christ might not complain of Us as he did of Them ver 64. But there are some of you that Believe not And unto Us as unto the Twelve Christ saith ver 67. Will ye also go away But with Peter We Believe and with Peter we Answer ver 68 69. Lord to whom shall we go Thou hast the words of Eternal Life and we Believe and are sure that Thou are Christ the Son of the Living God who can neither Deceive nor be Deceived In the next place I prove That notwithstanding the Repulse this Doctrine met with by the Murmuring of the Jews and the going back of the Unbelieving Disciples with their hard saying Who can hear it and not only to be Rejected of them but of Protestants and Others in after Ages for Christ knew from the Beginning who they were and who they should be that Believed not and would not Believe Yet so absolutely necessary to Our Salvation was the giving Us this Bread which should be his Flesh to Eat that mindful of his Promise the Eve before his Passion Mat. 26.26 Jesus took Bread and Blessed it and Brake it and gave it to the Disciples and said Take Eat This is my Body And I defie all the Ministers in England to produce so much as One Text to prove it was not his Body the same being again confirm'd by St. Mark chap. 14. ver 22. And as they did Eat Jesus took Bread and Blessed and Brake it and gave to them and said Take Eat This is my Body And who dare give Christ the Lye and say 'T is not so tho' the same be again confirmed by St. Luke chap. 22. ver 19. And He took Bread and gave Thanks and brake it and gave unto them saying This is my Body which is given for you This do in Remembrance of me And in like manner of the Cup in all these places that it was his Blood and the same again by St. Paul 1 Cor. chap. 11. ver 23 24 25 26 27 28 and 29. to which I refer the Seeker and in the same Chapter with St. Paul say ver 30. For this cause many are Weak and Sickly among you and many Sleep who have not Faith to Believe it nor Scripture to Disprove it if they have assure your self I will perform my Word and be of Their or any other Religion they shall appoint Me. Wherefore I sit down with the above Authorities as being sufficient to prove the Real Presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper and expect to hear what Scripture Authorities they have to produce against it and so soon as they Open fear not but We will Trace the Scent till the Fox be unkennell'd If they go to Figures and Pâ—râ—bles We know how to handle them but let them beware hâ—â— they offer any thing without shewing a Rule for it For since they have Asserted the Bible to be Their Rule of Faith They cannot take it ill if by Their own Rule they be Well-Rul'd Which till next Occasion is what offers From SIR Your always Humble and Obliged Servant N. N. FINIS
THE Catholick Answer TO THE Seekers Request IN A LETTER Directed to the SEEKER Proving the Real Presence BY The SCRIPTURE only Mark 16.16 He that Believeth and is Baptized shall be Saved but he that Believeth not shall be Damn'd LONDON Printed for John and Thomas Lane at the Sign of the Golden-Anchor at the Corner of Wild-street nexr Duke-street 1687. The Catholick Answer to the Seekers Request c. SIR YOUR Request happening to a Press of my Acquaintance gave Me the Opportunity of an early Perusal near the End whereof I found Your plain Dealing with the Gentlemen Ministers of the Church of England telling them Pag. 8. in these or the like Words That 't was Your being in Discourse with a Gentleman of the Catholick Perswasion that moved You to this way of Tryal who boldly affirm'd That he would prove the Catholick Doctrine of the Real Presence by the Express Word of God out of Your own Bibles and that he Challeng'd all England to produce him so much as One plain Text from the Beginning of Genesis to the End of the Revelations to prove the Contrary if they could then he would be of Their Religion or of any Other They'd appoint him which if he parted with his Own he thought 't was all 's one Upon reading whereof I found my self concern'd as being the very Person with whom You had the said Discourse wherein I own to have utter'd the above Expressions or Words to that Effect And what I said then I 'll still perform tho' for a single Man to Challenge all England I confess was a little Rash but in the Sense I spake it I again confirm it that is I will prove the Cotholick Doctrine of the Real Presence by the Bible only and I defie the World to produce Me One plain Text to prove the Contrary if they can I will be of Their Religion or any other They 'll appoint For if there be any more than One Religion True there may be Forty But upon the whole I find You are resolved to try what Scriptures We have for it and what Protestants have against it wherein I am so far from blaming You that I highly Applaud and Commend Your Zeal to know the Truth especially in a Matter of no less Importance to You than an Eternity of Bliss or Torments for as You have well Noted Pag. 3. that Without Faith it is impossible to please God Heb. 11.6 and that the Faith which is pleasing to God Ephes 4.5 is But One so without pleasing of God by Believing this One Faith 't is Impossible to be Saved Mark 16.6 according to St. Mark He that Believeth not shall be Damn'd And St. James tells us That whoever Offendeth in One Point Jam. 2.10 He is Guilty of All But because this Discourse tends to a Controversie of another Nature I am not willing to pursue it and therefore do set forward to the Matter in Question which is That You may be satisfied in the great point of the Lord's Supper by the Scripture only and not by several ways of Arguing as is usual c. to which I submit and accordingly shall endeavour to perform the best I can But first You desire to know Pag. 4. What it is We Believe of the Lord's Supper Whereunto I answer and resolve in the Affirmative of what You your Self propose or in plain terms I Firmly and Truly Believe by the same Faith I believe a God That in the Eucharist or Sacrament as You call it of the Lord's Supper as Celebrated in the Catholick Church is Truly Really and Substantially contain'd under the Forms of Bread and Wine the True Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the self-same Substance wherein he now Sitteth at the Right Hand of the Father which is in Heaven and that is in the very Substance wherein He was Born of the Virgin and wherein He Lived and Dyed for Vs with this Difference only That He was Visible to the Eye of Flesh then and Invisible to the same now for with Our Mortal Eyes we can no more see Him sitting at the Right Hand of the Father which is in Heaven than we can see Him in Form and Substance in the Sacrament of the Lord's-Supper which is on Earth tho' by the Eye of Faith we See and Believe him as Firmly in the One as Substantially in the Other For could We with Our Eyes and Sense of Flesh See Feel Smell and Taste if we could distinguish the Flesh and Blood of Christ in the Sacrament it would not be of Faith for according to St. Paul Faith is the Evividence of Things not seen Heb. 11.1 that is By Faith we Believe what we cannot See nor by the Sense of Flesh comprehend For as Our Saviour said in the Gospel according to St. John John 6.63 The Flesh profitteth nothing it is the Spirit that quickeneth but as Our Sacred Lord said in the next Verse John 6.64 There are some of You that Believe not and I am Sorry for it especially for You from the bottom of my Heart without Equivocation or Mental Reservation to the contrary which are Maxims We utterly abhor in all Cases wherein any thing of Sincerity Truth or Good of Our Neighbour is concern'd tho' by the Enemies of Truth it is father'd upon Us as a Fundamental of Our Faith but that I may not Digress from the intent You are upon I return to tell You That in the above I have Truly and Really laid down the Substance of what We Believe of the Lord's-Supper which Doctrine of the Real Presence and Being of Christ's Body and Blood in the Sacrament I Affirm and Prove by the Express Words of God Himself in the following Texts as taken from a Bible of Your own Printed at London by Bonham Norton and John Bill in the Year 1628. And as the Bible is Asserted by D. T. in a late Conference to be the Protestant Rule of Faith so I hope no Protestant will refuse to be Tryed by his own Rule tho' I fear whoever Answers Your Request of the Protestant Party that he will be forced to fly from his Rule and betake himself to Equivocation and twenty other Figures and Fancies of his own for he will never be able to stand by his Rule nor will his Rule ever stand by him Wherefore to the Summ of Your Request which is That We should lay down all the Scripture We can to prove the Affirmative of Our Part and That the Act of Parliament Establish'd Ministers should produce all the Scripture They can or have to prove the Negative of Their Part I say the Negative for That they Deny what We Affirm for Truth and this I find is the Pro and Con that You 'd be Resolved in and that the Methods You take are as it were Justiciary i.e. to hear the Evidence on Both Sides the Scriptures as You Repute'em being the Recorded