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A01221 A lerned epistle of M. Iohn Fraser: Bachler of Diuinitie to the ministers of Great Britanie Wherin he sheweth that no man ought to subscribe to their confession of faith. And that their presumed authorite to excommunicate anie man, especially Catholiques, is vaine and foolish. Fraser, John, d. 1605. 1605 (1605) STC 11335; ESTC S118714 44,089 108

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quibus ha● ●●s●untur in ●ortis minima Whose best workes a● so litill worthe Certainely ye ar very greatly obliged to theis who will not sweare a thing so preiudiciable to your honour and reputation which necessarilie followed vpō your doctrine if it were once admitted Truely I haue not so hard opinion of you for notwitstanding I esteeme you in all degrees farre inferior to the Pape yet think I not that ye ar so low abiect or so wicked and abominable as the Antichrist meikilles to think you worse Acknowledge the obligation ye haue to them who doing according to their consciences toward the Pape hath donne so meikill for your honour But ye will say that ye ar not so wicked as the Pape I doubt not but ye will winne your cause if it be referred to your saying or othe If the boundes of this epistle wold suffer or if it were my principall butte to traict that matter I should mak a comparison betwix the Pape and you where I should mak you ashamed if ye haue any shame in your forhead of your selues the merueillous differēce being seene I maruell how a minister can look to his companions vnlaughen when he seeth the people beleef a thing so ridiculous And in cōsciēce beleef ye that the Antichrist shal be a litill hypocrite or simple heretik ●e shal be more furiouse then any that euer came to trouble the kirk Because ye cannot shew that the Pape is come with force and violence as our Lord hath aduertised vs he shall come ye wold mak the world beleeue that the Antichrist should come to continue lyk a lamb Iesus Christ sayeth the contrarie of him It wil be an ill reformed faith to gif our lord the lie how can ye think that he who shal be instructed and fullie inspired wi●h the spirite of Satan will in any wise ether follow or conter●ect our maister and lord Iesus Christ ye deceaue your selues and all others who credits you if ye beleef so The heretiks who ar onely his foreruners hath entred in the kirk of God lyk Woulfes and Tigres and ye your selues came with so great modestie and quietnes that the earth did tremble and shake vnder your feete I know nōt if it was for gladenesse of your cōming so mightelye that the whole policie publik buildings thr●ugh out all Scotlād did fall downe as if it had beene a generall earth quake verelie according to his nature and dignitie he must be more violent and cruell then all the rest Is it possible that ye think the Antichrist will vse onely persuations faire words li●ill hen wyles seing that ye vse all s●rt of violences and compulsions he wil be more cruell then ye in all respectes more craftie and more mightie he will bring with him all mischiefs that can be inuented for that cause God will shorten his tyme. Think ye that that deuill if I ●hould so say wil be lyk Clemē● the 8. Are ye so ignorant or so foolish Truely Pape Clement is so wicked that it were better haue ten thowsand lyk him then one lyk ●ny of you and his death more to be sorrowed thē the death of a hundred thousand of you howbeit ye haue a better opinion of your selfs Think not also that the modestie that is in the Pape cometh of any feare he hath of you or yours Ye slay him euery yeare with your tounges but so softlie that he perceaueth it no more then ye did the first Papes entring How can ye beleeue that the Pape or Papes ar or can be the Antichrist seing they haue condemned all the heresies that hitherto hath risin against ether the diuinitie or humanitie of Iesus Christ as may be proued by your owen fellowes yea they haue condemned the errours risin now of late yeares amonge your selues as the new heresies of Gentilis Stancharus Blandrata and other good disciples of Caluin against the holie Trinitie whose errour ye approue not although bred among you How can it be that they shal be the Antichrist who so stoutly so constantlie with so great expenses and danger doeth defend the dignitie of Iesus Christ for they onely whome ye in your reformed language call the Antichrist hath holdin approued yet doth defend approue all wholl the generall councelles where Christs honour authoritie and diuine Maiestie haue beene lawfully defended and keeped yet can ye not shew any sic thing donne by you who calles your selues true Christians and lawfull pastours What shall we think of these Antichristes of you zealous Christians They keept the bible from corruption of heresies when ye could not be found yea when none of your reformed brethren could be seene at what tyme your inuisibilitie excused you from sic charitable offices It apperteneth to him onely whome ye call the Antichrist to defend Christs name keepe the bible distroy heresies confute errours conuert infideles send to all partes to cō●ort the faithfull to assure them who ar in brangle to reduce them who ar gone astray and that in Europe Asie and Afrik Which is donne yet in the new found Ils where there is more Christians now then heretikes in all Europe yea a great deal more O good diligēt Antichrist who onely hath watched laboured in the viniard of our Lord as it becometh a true faithfull seruāt And o ye wicked negligēt sluggish disloyall pastours who haue sleeped like as many Endymious thes 1500. years past in some obscure caue till the moune of false foolish imaginations haue wakned you to embrace againe the cloudes of errour in place of that heauenly Iuno of veritie Haue we not iust occasion to wish of God to haue in your place so good and godly an Antichrist which if we hade in euery toune we should not now haue beene in paine to refell your follies We may bouldly say that this Antichrist is meikill better reformed then your kirk and lesse to be feared then your reformation I doubt not but ye wold here willingly answeare that ye contribu●e with no lesse good will for the diliuerance of Geneua which ye make the people beleeue is besieged by the Duk of Sauoye where I will remark a great folie in you to beleeue a thing so mani●estly false a malice in them who haue abused so farre your simplicitie and rash crudelitie for their reformed faith I wold also willingly know of you why your reformed charitie extendeth it self onely to sic as haue rebelled against their lawfull Prince reither then to them who round about you ar in great need and distresse If ye did helpe your holie citie because of their necessi●ie I wold think it well done if ye could do well with out preiudice to your onely faith But to mainteine their rebellion against their iust and lawfull Prince is but an open and euident argument of that which is secretly hid in your breastes as we haue said here before I was almost here deliberat to shew
gifin to Caluin and you farre different from the commission gifin to Luther and his ●ollowers for the Lutherians according to this saying hade only charge to beginne the matter and ye to end it but beginning and ending should agree to gether and not like aegri somnia or worse They should agree I say if they be of one spirite except they come of that spirite who neuer yet could agree with him selfe The holie spirite who is the sp●●ite of vnion and concorde could not haue condemned by your mouth which he hath approued by Luthers or Lutherians mouthes I doubt not but ye trust al that ye haue the holie spirite yet the diuersitie of your opinions assure me the contrarie seing that the spirit who approueth and authoriseth the one and his doctrine condemneth and dischargeth the others and their doctrin If ye say that the errours hade takin so deepe roote that it was not possible to take them out of mens hartes in short space and therefore we should not maruell if there be many ●hingis in Luthers doctrine not agreable with the veritie But I pray you hade it not beene more seemely and as easie to Luther if he was sent by God whose asistence he could not want in that case to haue told the veritie at the beginning as to haue preached new errours so detestable as ye say and so contrarie to Godds worde and our saluation what spirite moued him so to doe If he ●ad winked at some or many of these poinctes that ye call errours which he found in the kirk before him because of the inueterate opinion cōfi●med by long vse there might be some apparent excuse in your answere but to bring in errour for errour or to put out one to take in two the people being so docill to ●eceaue what so euer impression at that tyme Luther wold or cold haue giuen them or to confirme obstinatly an ancient errour is no worke of the holie spirite who should haue guided your extraordinat●e prophete and new sent pastour Or was the holie spi●ite so weake in Luthers mouth that he could not teach him the veritie or Luther so hard harted ●hat he could not receaue nor conceaue the veritie mekilles teach it to others or hade the holie spirite since that tyme found Caluin a more proper instrument to instruct the world truely and plainely in all thinges Then why was he a lying spirite in Luthers mouth seing it was o● him ye haue your extraordinarie calling which now is so ordinairie and established that no man may preach without it 10. I see not what can be answered here or shal we tourne ba●ke againe to the first foundament of Luthers extraordinarie vocation where of the marke was the true doctrine which ye ar constrained to denye and disauow if ye wold proue your owen good for he condemneth you and your doctrine and ye condemne him and his doctrine which if ye denye obruam vos aduersarum ves●rarum partium voluminibus scriptisque contrarijs what shal become here of your vocatiō for lack of true doctrine it wil be null either in him or you or if ye say bothe true in your mutuall accusation in you both what shal become of your ministerie if this false thunder be shaken out of your hands ye will haue hard escapping out of this snare wherein ye haue feltred your selues fleing frome the Catholik kirk For if ye say that it is ynough that ye agree in the groundes and foundaments of faith and religion which ar necessarie altogether for mans saluation and in these ye agree with Luther and Lutherians they with you I wolde gladly vnderstand what ar these groundes and foundaments of faith and religion necessarie for mans saluation Is it to beleeue that there is but one God Iesus Christ to be God Gods Sonne That our saluation cōsisted in Godes mercy other sic thinges as sayeth Caluin Or in the Creed Lordes prayer ten commands as thinketh Beza Or shal they be in the inuocatiō of our lord Iesus Christ as teacheth du Plessis Or shal these foundaments be the negation and detestation of the Catholik doctrine or as ye call it papistrie according to your mēswearing of the true fai●h If ye wil hold you at your owen groūd I say onely that a negatiue faith is no faith properly and so your negations wil neuer open the heauens to you except that ye think that the Iewes gentils Turkes and heretikes o● all sects and at hei●ts may haue place as well there as ye seing they can deny heads of religion professed by the Catholiks with noth lesse assurance then ye a great part of the same with you If ye will say any of the●s thinges which the others hade said I ask you wherefore came Luther seing theis thinges as ye can not denie● were beleeued in the Catholik kirk before that euer Luther blew the trompette of sedition or as ye wold call it reformation if that honour had not beene reserued to you if the puritie of theis pointes was requesit why came Luther seing he teacheth not that puritie For that was reserued to you onely as we haue said often tymes It were out of purpos to say that God hade sent him to bring in new errours and confirme ould vnder p●etext of some few that he hath taken away where by an other might be sent Was it needfull that your Caluin should as an other Sainct Iohn the Baptist Parare viam Domini In the meane tyme I will conclude if there was so many errou●s in Luthers doctrine that it was needfull to send another in his place to teach the trueth that his extraordinarie vocation was not good or els yours who at come vpon a false token to gif him the lie But Domini moderatores why shall we beleeue Luther in some heads of religion as hauing commission of God and not in others because ye say it According to your Eu●ngell ye at all equall not one greater thē an other why shall we gif you more credit then him or if we refuse to credit Luther why shall we not re●use to credit you also that ye may remaine euer Pares or why shall we beleeue your when ye improue some thinges and approue others is it not needfull here to haue a new extraordinarie calling to iudge with discretion and to our saluation and if in any thing ye be gone wrong should there not be another extraordinarie prophete to correct you as ye haue corrected others And seing that the true kirk according to your reformed opinion may erre when sh●ll we haue lawfull pastours ye put the true doctrine the certaine mark of lawfull calling yet it can not be hade because euery man bringeth errour with him and the kirk is vncertaine and subiect to errour and so we can not trust hir And certainely as to Luther I credit you when ye accuse him of false doctrine and his followers because he
say onely that it shal be very hard to any of your swearers to behaue him sel●e well with other protestant ki●kes who are bothe in doctrine and discipline far different from you shall he enter incontinent in desence of your reformation shall he trouble all states where he doeth come Truely all men ha●e that opinion of your religion that it bringeth euerie where seditions with it as the most turbulent sect that euer yet was inuented in our contrey Ne longe exempla petantur Betonio primi maduerunt sanguine muri Or shall he following the maxime of your faith call all in doubt not withstanding of his othe ●ecause ye are but men and may erre except ●e may gif some good and sure reason why ●e onely say true and all the rest of the world false and that nothing can procede out of your mouth but veritie for your othe importeth no lesse with it And certainely without that pretogatiue of assured veritie bound to your heads and tounges to astrict men to your doctrine and discipline formed or reformed by you neglecting the authoritie of your reformed kirk in generall may seeme somewhat against reason and very preiudiciable to the Prince and common wealthe For by this othe all must depend vpon you as vpon the soueraigne magistrat the solemne othe absolute promise beinge made in fauour of your doctrine discipline which ye haue in your hands and ministration This may be easely seene by the othe made to the Kinges Maiestie or rather against him which ye sett downe in this forme And because we perceaue that the quyetnes and stabilitie of our religion and kirk doeth depend vpon the safetie and good behauiour of the Kinges Maieste as vpon a confortable instrument of Goddes mercie graunted to this countrey sor the mainteining of his kirk and ministration of iustice among vs. VVe protest and promise with our heartes vnder the same othe handwrit and paines that we shall defend his persone and Authoritie vvith our geir bodies and liues in the defence of Christes Euangell libertie of our countrey ministration of iustice and punishment of iniquitie against all enemies vvithin this realme or vvithout as vve desire our God to be a strong and mercifull defender to vs in the day of our death and comming of our lord Iesus Christ to vvhome vvith the father and the holie spirit be all honour glorie eternally Ai●● Lat vs consider the partes of this new othe Because say ye vve perceaue that the quyetnes and stabilitie of our religiō and kirk doeth depēd vpon the safetie and good behauiour of the Kinges Matie c. Well begoune truely that ye mistak not your selues ye lay downe the cause why ye will do or at lest appeare to do some seruice to his Maiestie as long as ye perceaue thinges that please you that is as long as al thinges at donne according to your fantasie ye wil be good and obedient subiects or rather maisters seing ye prescribe conditions to him who truely is your Maister and reasons why ye will bestow any thing vpon him What if any reformed imaginations take you or some extraordinarie zeall of your heauenly discipline trouble your braine and make you perceaue according to your passion as drounken men doeth see two candels where there is but one any other thing in his Maiestie What if ye find not that good behauiour ye looketh for Must he dresse all his actions to your fantasies and good pleasure will ye be censours and comptrollers of his doings if he vse not your counsell and aduys● If your perceauing of thinges to you agreable be the ground cause of your promise protestation how soone ye preceaue in your fantasie the contrarie ye ought him nothing I meane according to your opinion sublata causa ●ollitur effectus if I serue you because ye nurish me if ye cease to nurish me I am no further obliged to serue you what shall become here of your hearty promises and protestations when your sight shal be changed to what state shal the cōmen wealth be brought when your foolish affections shewe a rule to the Kinges Maiestie and honorable con●ell to gouerne his realme many thinges appeares to vs otherwise then they ar and reasons being knowen they ar found good that seemed ill before we say cōmonly there should no hyndman half work see ye do many things in your house perhapes well honestly which were neither expediet nor decent to be deuulgated to euery man as also ye haue some secret counsell touching your affaires which ye should loosse if your intention were publikly knowen Think also that King●s Princes according to their great rankes haue secrets which should not nor can not be published without preiudice of bothe Prince state the which can not be cōserued sometymes without the euident domage and hurt of some particulare men as by the losse of one member some tyme we preserue the rest of the body by which we should not esteeme mesure the princes actions but by the publik vtilitie which they procure better then we can see or vnderstand because their authoritie and experience gifeth them the wisdome knowledge which we can not haue Caesaribus virtus contigit ante diem There be certaine arcana imperij whereto we can not penetrate therefor lyke fooles oft tymes we do iudge rashly condemne thinges which we vnderstand not Wherefor we should do well not to enter in iudgement of so high matters Quam quisque nouit artem in ea se exerceat but your extraordinarie calling maketh you maisters in all craftes and your new discipline will not suffer you to haue so long patience Ye who enter in Goddes cabinet when ye list must know all things at the first instāt nothing should be hid to you ye haue receaued the spirite of discretion nothing should be donne without your approbation Ye ar in the chaire of veritie ye may speak what ye will iudge whom ye please comptroll whome ye list approue or improue as ye think good or ill ye haue taken the power ye haue receaued the othe all men ar your subiects so the Prince is subiect to your perceauing the principall rule of your new populaire tribuna● But ye will say that my cōclusion followed not vpō your antecedēt I wold be glad it were so that I were deceaued in my opiniō so willing I am to heare that there were no traittour in our countrey But if we will consider the solemne othe passed before in fauour of your new reformatiō to defend and obserue the doctrine and discipline thereof vnder so horrible a promise or rather imprecations execrations as we haue noted before it followed very necessarily for ye may extend as ye do when it pleased you the borders of your discipline as far as it seemed good to you and interpret your doctrine as ye thinke most expedient and so perceaue what ye please where ye shall acknowledge or not his
as foreriders where of Simon Magus was the first a detestable magicien and a traiterous apostate who not withstanding hath found ouer many cōpanions to follow him Iesus Christ should slay the Antichrist with the spirite of his mouth that is as ye interprete it with the preaching of the Euangell that hath he never donne to any Pape albeit ye haue imaginated to your selfs that ye haue slaine the Pape by your preachinges o● rather taillinges the Pape never hath had one houres sicknes for all your crying assure your selues that his infirmities cometh of other causes Luther in spirite of prophicie as he thought made this most notable verse Pestis eram viuus moriens tu● mors ero Papa he knew very well the first part to be true and therefore myght say it confidently the last part was lyk the authour false and vntrue he being deade and his doctrine bothe it being changed partly by him self during his lyf partly by his disciples and followers after his deathe where as the Papes Authoritie because it is founded vpon God doth remaine shall remaine till the worlds end The Antichrist should oppose him self to our lord in all thinges and abolish his name and honour so farre as he can for so the name of Antichrist doth signifie The Pape doeth the plaine contrarie The Antichrist should come after Gog Magog howbeit that the Papes hath beene so many ages yet know we not what Gog and Magog ar nor what place of the world they dwell in The Pape honoreth the Sainctes as Gods vndoubted friends and desyreth them to pray for him Where vpon maliciously ye preach to the people that we gif Christs honour to the Saincts yet we acknowledge them as seruants onely who hath credit to pray and not to command The Antichrist should haue in his name the number of 666. to find this number your brethren further different frome you in doctrine and discipline then in place or habites haue taken great paines tourning the Papes names but all in vaine it could not be found the holie spirite hauing so prouided against your calumnies Many thousands ar saued in the Catholik kirk which ye call the papist kirk for otherwise all your forfathers ar condemned yea all the ancient fathers martyres and doctours of the kirk seing that they haue acknowledged the pape for their superior and chief vicare to Iesus Christ and a great part of you were baptised by the membres of the Antichrist in whose kirk no man can be saued The Pape armeth him self al men so far as he can for Iesus Christ with reasons scriptures generall counceilles authorities of fathers exēples of martyres consentement of the wholl Catholik kirk of all ages The Antichrist shall arme him selfe and his followers with force and violence against Iesus Christ The Pape conserueth and haue conserued at all tymes the scriptures The Antichrist if he do according to his name and profession should destroy the scriptures The Pape hateth and condemneth all sort of rebellions and nouelties in religion The Antichrist should embrace them as most proper conuenient instruments for his auancement of perdition The Pape came so quietly and peaceablye yea according to your owen ●ellowes saying that ye can not yet goodly-tell when or how he first entred in the kirk ye ar so troubled to tell well your new forged fable The Antichrist should come with sic trouble and mischief as neuer was since the beginning of the world where in he shal be more lyk to you then to the Pape seing we can well tell when ye came and may yet shew ouer euident markes of your vnquiet intré And to be short the Antichrist should be filius perditioni● the sonne of perdition chief instrument of satan that is so possessed and assisted with the deuill that he shall do all thinges in the deuils power and for his cause and shal be so perfect and accomplished if I should so say in all vice and iniquitie that no man can equall him meikilles to surpasse him and principallie in pryde as our maister and lord Iesus Christ did excell in all vertue chiefly in humilitie discite à me quia mitis sum hu●●lis corde Wherefor not without reason sundry learned men haue repported the seuen montains to the seuen deedly sinnes which shal be in the Antechrist in most high degree that he may iustly answeare to his name The Pape can no wayes be thought so wicked I call to witnes all sort of Protestantes of what so euer nation saction or opinion who haue beene at Rome before or since the Iubile and haue seene the Pape who now sitteth Clement the eight a man worthie of that name if any of them may say in his conscience that he is so wicked and desperate a mā as the Antichrist is described to be in the scriptures Sure I am that there is none of them so far drounkē in the ministeriall humour that will say so if he speak according to that he hath seene It is so far from that the Pape can be the Antichrist that his most excellente Maiestie a Prince of rare iudgement and learning doth acknowledge the Pape to be a temporall Prince to whom he is obliged and to whome in all good offices he wil be correspondent ●hat wordes may be said to your opinion who maketh our Kinge to haue obligation from and commerce with the Antichrist I may say with your pardon and licence sessionall that he is a better more honest man then any ministers that either is or euer was in Scotland without exception of your chief pontifs first or last Iohn or Robert I am assured that he who knoweth the Pape an● your ministers will say the same principally if it were question of humilitie and humanitie and if I be put to my proues I hope easely to discharge my selfe litill to you● honours If this be true as it is most certaine why should any man sweare the Pape to be the Antichrist that is the most wicked and detestable man that euer was is or shal be seing that there is none of your companie how godly brethren that euer ye be but i● meikill worse then he or if they sweare a thing so farre out of all reason and verit●e as thinking it true why should they follow or acknowledge you for true and lawfull pastours sent by God to reforme the world if ye be worse then the Antichrist who must be the most detestable and abominable instrument that euer Satan hath employed If ye say that it is but simulation and hypocrisie in the P●pe to deceaue men I answeare you that if we graunt your foolish affirmation ye must also graunt to vs that the deuill hath donne more good with the Pape his hypocrisie pretēded or fained holinesse then euer the holie spi●ite which is in you I say could do by ●ou and your pietie and reformed Godlinesse your actions may beare witnes if I lie O Sanctas gentes