BY Vertue of an Order to me granted by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled dated on Thursday the 28th of Octob. 1680 I do appoint Randal Taylor near Stationers Hall to Print this Trial of Roger Earl of Castlemaine and that no other Person or Persons print the same JO. COMBE London Januar. 12. 1680-1 THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL OF CASTLEMAINE FOR High Treason In Conspiring the Death of the KING The Subversion of the Government and Introducing of Popery and Arbitrary Power BEFORE The Lord Chief Justice SCROGGS c. At the KING's BENCH Bar at Westminster the 23th June 1680 Where he was Acquitted LONDON Printed for S. G and N. E. and are to be sold by Randal Taylor near Stationers-Hall 1681. THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL of CASTLEMAINE ROGER PALMER Esque Earl of Castlemaine in the Kingdom of Ireland having been Arraigned at the Kings Bench Bar the Sixteenth of June 1680 for High Treason To which he Pleaded Not Guilty c. On Wednesday the 23th of June 1680 being appointed for his Trial the Court being sate and the usual Formalities perform'd the Lieutenant of the Tower delivered him into Court and then the said Court proceeded as followeth Clerk of the Crown Cryar Make Proclamation Proclamation for silence Cryer O yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment O yes If any one can inform our Soveraign Lord the King the Kings Serjeant at Law the Kings Attourney General or this Inquest now to be taken of the High Treason whereof Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland stands Indicted let them come forth and they shall be heard for the Prisoner stands at the Bar upon his deliverance Clerk of the Crown Cryer Make an O yes Cryer O yes You good Men that are empannelled to enquire between our Soveraign Lord the King and Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain within the Kingdom of Ireland answer to your Names Clerk of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up thy hand These good Men that were lately called and now here appear are to pass between our Soveraign Lord the King and you upon your Life or Death if you challenge any of them you must speak as they come to the Book to be Sworn and before they are Sworn JURY Sir John Cutler Knight and Baronet Sir Reginald Foster Baronet Henry Herriott Esq Richard Cheney Esq Thomas Johnson Esq John Robert's Esq Francis Dorrington Esq Hugh Squire Esq Charles Good Esq John Pulford Esq Edward Claxton Esq Francis Mayhew Gent. Cryer O Yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment C. of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up your hand You Gentlemen of the Jury that are now Sworn look upon the Prisoner and hearken to his charge You shall understand that he stands Indicted by the Name of Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland for that he as a false Traytor against our most Illustrious and Excellent Prince and Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. and his Natural Lord not having the Fear of God before his Eyes nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil his Cordial Love true due and Natural Obedience which true and Faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King ought to bear towards him altogether withdrawing and contriving and with all his might intending to disturb the Peace and common Tranquility of this Kingdom and to bring and put our Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction and alter the true Worship of God within this Kingdom established to the Superstition of the Romish Church and to stir up and move War against our said Soveraign Lord the King within this Realm of England and to subvert the Government thereof the Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord Charles the Second of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. at the parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Midd. with divers other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown did traiterously imagine and intend the killing death and final destruction of our said Lord the King and to change and alter and utterly subvert the Ancient Government of this Kingdom and to depose and wholly to deprive our said Lord the King of his Crown and Government of this Realm of England and to extirpate the true Protestant Religion And to accomplish and fulfil the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid the said Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown the same Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year aforesaid with force and Arms in the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields aforesaid in the County aforesaid Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously and Traiterously did assemble unite and gather themselves together and then and there Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously Subtily and Traiterously did consult and agree to bring our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and Final Destruction and to deprive him of his Crown and Government of England and to Introduce and Establish the Religion of the Church of Rome in this Kingdom and the sooner to fulfil and accomplish the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous imaginations and purposes aforesaid he then and there did Falsly Maliciously and Trayterously promise divers great Rewards and did pay divers Sums of Money to several Persons unknown and then and there falsly and traiter ously did write divers Notes to incite several other Persons to accomplish the Treasons aforesaid against the Life of our Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and contrary to the form of the Statute in such Case made and provided Clerk of the Crown Upon this Indictment he hath been Arraigned and hath pleaded thereunto Not Guilty and for his Tryal he puts himself upon God and his Countrey which Countrey you are Your charge is to inquire Whether he be Guilty of the High Treason whereof he stands Indicted or not Guilty If you find him guilty you are to inquire What Goods and Chattles Lands and Tenements he had at the time when the High Treason was committed or at any time since If you find him not Guilty you are to say so and no more and hear your Evidence Cryer O yes If any one will give Evidence on the behalf of our Soveraign Lord the King against Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland let him come forth and he shall be heard for the Prisoner now stands at the Bar upon his deliverance M. Bonithon May
I say this I went a Ship-board in April I returned from Valledolid in November I arrived in London in November and staid in London some time and then I went to St. Omers in November or December new Stile or old Stile I staid at St. Omers from thence I went to Watton then my Lord in the Month of March we went to Leige and returned back again In the Month of April we came hither some time before the Consult and staid here some time after Prisoner What time were you at Leige pray Sir D. Oates In March 77. J. Jones The end of 77. D. Oates No my Lord we were at St. Omers again in March L. C. J. You returned in March 77 78 D. Oates Yes my Lord the Stile doth so alter Prisoner That is before Lady-day D. Oates Yes my Lord it was before Lady-day we Arrived here in London in May or in April and we staid here some few days Prisoner When did you come over again pray Sir D. Oates My Lord it is now Two Years ago or better and I can't remember every particular time My Lord we were here in May. Prisoner I will ask him as many Questions as I think reasonable and when my Lord I do desire times and he can't tell the times he must tell me so L. C. J. Mr. Oates Answer my Lord what Questions he asks you D. Oates I will tell my Lord Castlemain as near as I can remember my Lord. Prisoner Mr. Oates When was it you came over D. Oates Really it was some few days before the Consult Prisoner How many days do you think D. Oates Really I can't remember L. C. J. I suppose you have your Memorials D. Oates Really my Lord no. L. C. J. Have you any thing more to ask Prisoner Yes my Lord a great many Questions Were you present Mr. Oates pray at that Consult when I consented to the Kings Death Was you by D. Oates I was present at the Consult but I do not charge you to be at the Consult L. C. J. He asks you where it was he agreed to it D. Oates At Mr. Fenwick's Chamber I remember it was about Seven or Eight a Clock that we were going over Lincolns-Inn-Fields L. C. J. How long might you be at Fenwicks D. Oates It was about 11 or 12 a Clock I came away Prisoner When you met me in Lincolns-Inn-Fields was I in a Coach or on Foot or was any body with me D. Oates I can't say whether your Lordship had a Man with you or no. L. C. J. Was there any body with him D. Oates I did not take notice of that L. C. J. You were two hours together pray let me ask you this Question What was your Discourse about D. Oates That was part of the Discourse my Lord. L. C. J. What You have given us a very short Account of it in Four lines You were two hours together What was the main of your Discourse about D. Oates My Lord I will give you as plainly as I can the Discourse at that time C. L. J. Pray let us know what the main of your Discourse was about D. Oates One part of their Discourse was about the Revenues of their Colledges and how they had suffer'd by the French's taking St. Omers and what losses they had sustained by reason of the change of Government by the Conquest for the Crown of Spain had entailed on the Colledge of St. Omers Five or Six Hundred a Year for the maintaining the Foundation of their House or Foundation Rent and it was taken away by reason of the Conquest that France had made over the Spanish Dominions there and they were consulting how they should Write to Father Le Chese to be an Instrument to move the French King to restore this Annuity that was a Settlement entailed upon it L. C. J. How came you into this Discourse D. Oates This was after the other Discourse L. C. J. How came you to Discourse this Affair here in England D. Oates I will tell your Lordship as near as I can remember When we met in Lincolns-Inn-Fields Mr. Langworth recommended me to my Lord Castlemain and bad me take notice of him I can't say this is my Lord Castlemain but this is that Man I saw L. C. J. Did he call him by his Name D. Oates He told him that I was such a one and that I was serviceable to them And upon our way as we went to Mr. Fenwick's Chamber he inquired into the Causes of my coming over so soon again for he said I went over but last Month. Said he How came it to pass he came over so soon again Saith he We wanted him to do some business for us And there were more particulars of the Transactions of the Consult mentioned to my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. How did they bring in the Particulars of that Design D. Oates This is as near as I can remember L. C. J. How came they to talk of laying aside the King and bringing in the Catholick Religion D. Oates My Lord After they had given an Account of the Transactions of the Consult This was one part of the Consult L. C. J. Pray how came they to bring it in in Discourse D. Oates My Lord they spake of the particulars of it L. C. J. I wonder what introduced the particulars Was it to acquaint him with those particulars D. Oates My Lord I have nothing to say to that they were things so generally talked of by those of the Jesuitical party that when ever they met they scarce did talk of any thing else but of that and so they did at this time L. C. J. Pray tell me the whole discourse as you can remember that relates to this time D. Oates My Lord I have told your Lordship we met with my Lord Castlemain in Lincolns-Inn-Fields I have told you my Lord that we went to Mr. Fenwicks I have told you my Lord that after some Discourse how it was introduced I cannot be positive but as near as I can remember they were speaking of my going over and coming again so soon my going from the Consult to St. Omers and returning again into England so soon and so one word brought in another L. C. J. Did you know then that my Lord Castlemain had ever heard of this matter before D. Oates My Lord I don't know but I am morally certain as to my self but I can't swear he did Att. General Did he speak of it to him as a stranger to it D. Oates No. J. Jones By the Letter you spake of he knew before L. C. J. Answer my Brother's Question Was the Letter you had seen before or after that Discourse at Fenwicks D. Oates My Lord that was after the Consult L. C. J. Then you know he did know of the Design D. Oates My Lord I think not of the particulars of the Design L. C. J. That is he knew of this Design for the main When you talk of the Design you always mean
a Pardon for Felonies and Out-lawries of Felony in general Mr. Darnal If the Persons and their Offences are severally and sufficiently pardoned then my Lord I will proceed unto the other Point J. Jones The whole is good D. Darnal Then my Lord I conceive notwithstanding this Pardon Mr. Dangerfield ought not to be Sworn and that no Person attainted of Felony though Pardon'd can be a Witness My Lord it hath been Adjudged in 11 Henry the 4th Quadragessimo primo that a Man Attainted of Felony as Mr. Dangerfield is though he be afterwards Pardoned cannot be Sworn of a Jury My Lord the same question hath been resolved since In Nono Jacobi It is reported in Mr. Brownlow's and Goldsborough's Reports Folio Tricessimo Quarto And my Lord Cook in Mr. Bulstrode's Second Reports 154. In Brown and Crashaw's Case is of the same Opinion He says A Man Attainted and Pardon'd cannot serve upon any Inquest and that by the same reason the Testimony of such a man for a Witness is in all Cases to be rejected L. C. J. Who says so Mr. Darnal My Lord Cook L. C. J. Men do not slight my Lord Cook Where do you say that is Mr. Darnal It is in Mr. Bulstrode's Second Reports in Brown and Crashaw's Case Fo. 154. J. Jones But you should have brought these Books hither Mr. Darnal I suppose Sir they may be had in the Hall My Lord Cook gives this Reason for it in that Case He saith That notwithstanding his Pardon he is not Probus legalis homo J. Jones That Pardon was before any Judgment it was a Pardon of Felony before any Tryal or Judgement but here is a Conviction Mr. Darnal My Lord Cook puts the case there of a Man Attainted And my Lord Induodecime Jacobi It is reported in Brownlow's Reports Folio 47. J. Raymond Which of his Reports Mr. Darnal I know but of one set out in his Name alone the other which is call'd the First Part is sett out in his and Goldsborough's Name I have Mr. Brownlow's Reports here and if your Lordship please you may see it L. C. J. What is the Page Mr. Darnal Forty Seven my Lord The case there reported is The King Pardon'd a Man Attaint for giving a false Verdict yet he shall not be at another time Empannell'd upon any Jury and the reason given there is that though the Punishment was Pardon'd yet the Guilt remain'd J. Jones That is a very short Note and not so much in the Book as you have mentioned Mr. Darnal I writ it word for word out of the Book Sir and I am sure there is so much in my Book My Lord in Mr. Justice Crooke's Elizabeth Fol. 686. in Shelborn's Case it is held that though the King may Pardon Simony yet he cannot enable a Simoniack to retain a Living L. C. J. The Act doth make him not capable Mr. Darnal I conceive Sir it is upon the same reason because the Pardon cannot take away the Guilt though it may the Punishment of the Offence J. Raymond He can't dispense with Simony he can't give a dispensation to take a Living Mr. Darnal My Lord upon these Resolutions and the reason of them I humbly submit it to your Lordship whether Mr. Dangerfield having been Attainted of Felony though he be since Pardon'd can be a Witness Att. General My Lord with your Lordships Favour this is quite contrary to the constant and general Opinion and contrary to the constant Practice For my Lord with your Lordships Favour when a Man is Pardon'd for any Crime if a Man can't say he is a Felon or he is Perjured then he can't be reckoned so to any intent or purpose whatsoever L. C. J. I told you before it is consonant to all the Reason and Law in the World that a Pardon should stop Mens Mouths from reviling speeches that signifie nothing but it is one thing to say men shall not go reviling that can have no consequent good but which tends to the Breach of the Peace and another thing to say he shall be Liber Att. General My Lord when the King gives him a Pardon it is as if he had never committed the Offence L. C. J. He may be outlawed notwithstanding the Kings Pardon and then it is not as if he had never committed the Offence J. Jones It restores him to wage battle and it makes him Liber legalis homo for if a man may wage battle he is Liber legalis homo Att. General Then my Lord if he be so he shall be a Witness For my Lord in the Point of Perjury a man that after a Conviction of Perjury had a Pardon hath been admitted several times L. C. J. Was the Exception taken Mr. Atturney Att. General Yes my Lord and he rejected before he had a Pardon J. Raymond How many Men have been Witnesses that have been convicted of Felonies after the Kings have Pardon'd them Recorder I will not adventure to say that there hath been a particular Objection made and so that the Court hath had the Debate of it but I will undertake to give your Lordship several instances of Men that have been Convicted and the Judges sitting there knew them to be so Convicted and did not take notice of it J. Raymond I speak of Witheringon particularly Recorder He was a Witness though every man did know that Witherington was Convicted I begg your Lordships leaves to speak it that the Judges themselves did know that he was Convicted and had received Sentence of Death Sir F. W. The constant Practices of the Judges is a mighty Conclusion L. C. J. What think you Mr. Atturney if a Man be Convicted of Felony and afterwards hath a General Pardon is he a Witness Att. General Yes truly my Lord it signifies the same thing my Lord as to be a Freeman again J. Jones He cannot be of a Jury if he be Attainted of Felony and the reason is because he is not Probus legalis homo and why he should not as well be of a Jury as a Witness I cannot understand Att. General There is a great deal of difference my Lord a great many Men may be admitted to be Witnesses that cannot be admitted to be Jury men J. Jones Shew me any man that is excluded from a Jury and admitted to be a Witness except in the case of Kindred Att. General An hundred L. C. J. Shew me any Man who being of a Jury was excluded and yet made a Witness Att. General A Villian was not admitted to be a Jury man but a Villain was always to be a Witness and that was a point of Infamy L. C. J. What Infamy was contain'd in being a Villain Att. General He was a Criminal he was not Liber homo L. C. J. But though he be not a Freeman he may be an honest man Recorder My Lord Hobart says A Pardon takes away the Guilt L. C. J. It takes away Guilt so far as he shall never be questioned but
it does not set a Man as if he had neuer Offended It cannot in reason be said a Man guilty of Perjury is as Innocent as if he had never been Perjured Att. General I say if a Man be Pardoned he is as if he were not Guilty L. C. J. If I were in my Lord Castlemain's Case I would submit it but when he hath given his Testimony my Lord shall have liberty to give in the Records against him of what Crimes he hath committed J. Jones I do confess indeed that my Lord Hales in his little Book of the Pleas of the Crown saith That a Man that hath had the benefit of his Clergy is restored to his Credit J. Raymond If that case be allowed it is a plain case for there is no Man can wage Battle but he that is Liber legalis homo Recorder A Man broke Prison and therefore he could not wage Battle he replies the King hath Pardoned me that Felony and thereupon he is admitted to wage Battle J. Jones Where there is no Judgment given in the Case and the King doth Pardon a Man that doth make a very great difference Recorder In the Case of Witherington my Lord Chief Justice did look upon the Records and afterwards said he was a good Witness and was Admitted Prisoner If you have Law by you I must consent L. C. J. Then you must consent Recorder There are several Persons who have had Pardons after Robberies and we are forced to make use of some of these Fellows L. C. J. Before Conviction Recorder No after Conviction my Lord I have known a Prisoner at the Bar when my Lords the Judges have been there to be a Witness And if the Court had made any doubt it would have been a Question before this time of day Att. General My Lord if you please Mr. Dangerfield may be Sworn If your Lordship pleases L. C. J. My Lord shall have the benefit of excepting against his credibility Then Mr. Justice Raymond went down to the Court of Common Pleas to know their Opinion J. Jones Have you any other Witness in the mean time Att. General No my Lord he is a principal Witness Sir F. W. Besides the common Practice here is a Book that says he shall wage Battle J. Jones That is when there is a Pardon before Conviction Sol. General But here my Lord he says the Reatum is taken away and then it takes away his disabilities too The difference can be nothing here before Conviction and after because before Conviction there is a disability before Conviction he is disabled from waging Battle So that that makes no difference before Conviction and other Cases after Conviction and the disability is taken away by the Pardon and he is restored to be a Freeman L. C. J. There is a disability upon Presumption tho not upon Conviction Sol. General There is the same legal impediment in the one as in the other but his Credit is left to the Breast of the Jury Recorder When a Pardon comes it takes away not only Poenam but Reatum and the Reason my Lord Hobart gives L. C. J. Nay give your Reason Recorder For Felony is Contra Coronam Dignitatem is a Fault against the King and when the King Pardons it it ceases and in another place it is said It Pardons all disabilities incident to him J. Jones That is before Conviction still L. C. J. Don't my Lord Cook tell you expresly That the taking a Pardon doth not prove any Offence You take a Pardon it ought not to be concluded that you are Guilty but the proper conclusion of a Wise Man is that you would be safe It can't be thought that every Man that hath a Pardon in England is guilty of all those Offences that are there Pardoned J. Jones There is a difference between a General Pardon and a particular Pardon when a Man doth accept of a special Pardon it must be intended that he hath some Consciousness of Guilt or else he would not take it but he that is Included in a general Pardon may be clear because all Men are Included in it unless some Persons particularly excepted and the difference is taken in that very point from accepting a General and a Special Pardon L. C. J. That the Acceptance of a General Pardon doth not barely of it self intend Men to be Guilty of the Crimes is plain and the reason is most apparent for besides that Men be safe so there be times that give a Reason why Men should have a Pardon because no man knows when he is safe Perjury so abounds that no man can say he is safe and that is a Reason why Men should be very willing to accept of Pardons Clerk of the Crown Here 's my Lord Hales's Book about the Pleas of the Crown Recorder He says when the King hath discharged and pardoned him he hath cleared the Person of the Crime and Infamy J. Jones It is so no doubt Sir F. W. May we pass upon these Authorities J. Jones Sir Francis We are not willing to go about it till it be concluded for that purpose we have desired my Brother Raymond to know the Judges Opinions of the Common Pleas. Recorder He doth expresly say it hath restored him to his Credit and in Witherington's Case he did call for the very Records Att. General If it restore him to his Credit I hope it shall not blemish him so much when he is Sworn that he shall not be believed L. C. J. We won't have any prepossession in that Case his Crimes shall be all taken notice of Is it fit to have Men Guilty of all sorts of Villanies and not to observe it J. Jones In that very Case my Lord Hobart says A Man may say of a Pardoned Man he was a Felon though he cannot say now he is a Felon and now what can be objected to this Case Recorder Things may be objected against a Person and his Credit left to the Jury but the Question now is Whether he shall be a Witness or no L. C. J. We have Men grown so Insolent they behave themselves with that vile Insolence that now they take upon them to speak against whole Societies of Men as if so be there were any thing in them that should render them better then their former Lives or Natures Humility becomes penitents and no wicked Man is supposed to be penitent that hath not that but these carry it with that Insolency as if they were not concern'd themselves when God knows the best of them discover what they do by being but parties themselves Mr. Justice Raymond return'd from the Court of Common Pleas. L. C. J. I will tell you what my Brethrens Opinions are he hath put it to them on both Accounts That he was convicted of Felony and Burnt in the Hand for it that he was outlawed for Felony and hath a General Pardon They say they are of Opinion That a General Pardon would not restore him to
Oates Speak the truth there is a God in Heaven Dr. Oates Shall I be allowed to satisfie the Court as to this Evidence I will give the Court a very good account L. C. J. The substance is this That you were poor Is it true that he gave you Ten Shillings Dr. Oates My Lord I believe I might not have much money among them L. C. J. And you said You would suffer no more for Conscience sake Dr. Oates That is not so my Lord. L. C. J. And That it is an hard thing to want Bread Dr. Oates My Lord I never wanted Bread Hutchinson But you said so to me Mr. Oates Att. Gen. Hark Mr. Hutchinson Dr. Oates To shew the Invalidity of this Evidence my Lord the Bishop of London hath turn'd him out of his Living at Barkin L. C. J. What is that Dr. Oates To shew that he is not fit to be trusted L. C. J. Why you have never a Living Dr. Oates Yes I have my Lord. L. C. J. Where Dr. Oates In Kent my Lord. L. C. J. How long have you had it Dr. Oates I was restored to it last Summer Recorder He says That he had Discourse with him concerning his Priesthood Whether Mr. Oates thought himself to be a good Priest that is as he was made by the Order of the Church of England Att. Gen. He says He converted Mr. Oates to be a Papist Dr. Oates And I have a Charge of High Treason against that man for seducing me from my Religion my Lord. I will swear he turn'd me to the Church of Rome and I desire it may be recorded Dr. D. I have one thing to tell your Lordship the man is mad he is distracted L. C. J. This Doctor of Divinity is a very honest man he will tell you Dr. D. He was my Curate at Barkin and my Lord of London having some Information against the manner of his Preaching sent me word to Rippon he would provide me another Curate On Saturday last dining with him my Lord told me he was distracted Recorder His Behaviour is a very concurrent Testimony J. Raymond I appeal to my Lord if I did not tell him as he came into the Court that he was a distracted man L. C. J. Call another Witness Prisoner Here 's a Gentleman was his School-fellow at Vallodolid I ask you Mr. Armstrong Whether you knew any thing of Mr. Oates there L. C. J. How long had he been there Armstrong He was Three months there before me L. C. J. How long was he there in all Armstrong A matter of a moneth L. C. J. Was he not there Four months Armstrong Yes a matter of Four months in all L. C. J. He says He had been there Three months before he came and a month after he came and that then he was but a common Scholar Dr. Oates My Lord I will satisfie the Court when they question me L. C. J. In what would you satisfie us Dr. Oates About being a Scholar I was ready to commence when they came but being they were Strangers in the Town not being Town Scholars and not undertaking Philosophical Dictates the Fathers did pray me to shew them the way to School and I went with them two or three times L. C. J. Call another my Lord. Prisoner Mr. Palmer and Mr. Dorrington L. C. J. Did you know Mr. Oates at St. Omers Palmer Yes my Lord and he was an ordinary Scholar there and dined and supp'd with us L. C. J. You said he dined at another Table Palmer Yes my Lord he did dine at a Table by himself but it was at the same time Dr. Oates Had I Scholars Commons Pray my Lord ask them that Palmer He had the same Commons that we had but they had a respect for him as he was an ancienter man and that was the reason that he had more freedom than the rest Prisoner My Lord He says he came from St. Omers at the Consult Pray Sir who did you come along with Did you come with Hilsley Dr. Oates Hilsley came with me in the Pacquet-boat Prisoner Call Mr. Hilsley and Osbourne My Lord this Gentleman I would bring nothing to offend your Lordship or nothing that hath been old if it had not some new inference from it Therefore my Lord this is the reason that I sent for Mr. Hilsley Mr. Hilsley did you come with Mr. Oates in April in the Pacquet-boat Hilsley No my Lord. Prisoner You left him at St. Omers Hilsley Yes my Lord. Prisoner Now my Lord I have several Witnesses to prove this And pray Mr. Osbourn tell my Lord what he said to you Osbourn My Lord about the latter end of April I heard Mr. Hilsley was in Town I went to see him and one time at a Coffee-house about the Turnstile wâ— fell in Discourse L. C. J. My Lord you say you have two Persons of Quality I will tell you my Lord what you shall expect I will not be for one and not for t'other but be equal as near as I can If he comes only to testifie what Hilsley told him it signifies nothing Prisoner I do depend upon Hilsley but this is that Hilsley told him That there was one Oates at St. Omers L. C. J. That is no Evidence nor can Ladies of Quality prove by their own Experience what Mr. Hilsley affirms That Oates came not over with him Prisoner My Lord They can tell and one Lady a Protestant that talking with this Gentleman before the Plot L. C. J. This is only Discourse what another man says If Mr. Oates himself should have said so then indeed it is proper but to shew you this it is impossible supposing they speak truth that is if they do witness what they do not That long before they heard of the Name of Oates this Gentlemau should tell them one Oates was left at St. Omers it signifies nothing Prisoner Does not that confirm Mr. Hilsley's testimony L. C. J. No indeed Prisoner I only refer this to you my Lord Hilsley says in April he did leave Oates and here are four or five Witnesses that Hilsley told them so J. Jones All that my Lord says is this That he did leave Mr. Oates at St. Omers If it be objected They are Catholicks as they call them says my Lord Hilsley did tell this Story before there was any Plot. Why should he tell them so It is not in favour of that Religion that he speaks but the time of testifying such a thing shews he speaks true This is all Prisoner This is the Inference This is only to corroborate and shew you the credit of his testimony J. Raymond It may be a mistake though and it is of no more force than what he says now Att. Gen. They were all mistaken in that matter Dr. Oates My Lord he did leave me at St. Omers but I overtook him at Calais L. C. J. Will you swear it Mr. Oates Dr. Oates I say upon my Oath I did it L. C. J. It were a great
I have now only one thing to say what hath past between Mr. Oates and Mr. Dangerfield L. C. J. Do it as near as you can Sir F. W. We have some other Evidence to answer this Att. Gen. If your Lordship please we will call two or three Witnesses to Prove the Point First to prove this last thing that we have been in my Lords company later than my Lord speaks of L. C. J. He says August Att. Gen. We will prove after that time that is the time that pinches us Prisoner My Lady Powis is in Court will you hear her Lady Powis My Lord I never did send a Letter by Mr. Dangerfield to any body in my life nor I never read a Letter in Mr. Dangerfields presence nor never had him so much in my company to read a Letter or any tittle to him L. C. J. I will tell you Gentlemen what he says Mr. Dangerfield swears he carried a Letter from my Lady Powis to my Lord Castlemain and there was an answer brought back and that that answer of my Lord Castlemains was read before him and you will do well to call Mrs. Cellier in again my Lady Powis doth deny that she ever sent a Letter by him to my Lord Castlemain or any body else by him in her life or that she ever communicated any Letter to him This is apt Evidence this is the truth of it for it answers directly to what he says against my Lord Castlemain Sir Richard Barker L. C. J. What say you Sir Richard Barker can you give any account of Oates When was Mr. Oates in Town What time that you know of Sir R. B. My Lord I remember we were once upon this before your Lordship L. C. J. In 78 Sir R. B. Yes my Lord the Evidence that I gave my Lord was only this that my servants told me that Mr. Oates had been at my house It was before Whitsontide in May 78 L. C. J. Did you see him then When was it you saw him Sir R. B. My Lord I saw him after L. C. J. How long after Sir R. B. My Lord it was about the latter end of June L. C. J. He says to his own knowledg he saw him in June Att. Gen. But we have his servants here too Phillip Page and Cecily Mayo L. C. J. Do you hear Mrs Cellier was there any Letter sent by my Lord Castlemain to my Lady Powis that was read before you and Dangerfieild Mrs. Cellier No my Lord. L. C. J. Here are two witnesses my Lady says there is no such thing and Mrs. Cellier says it Prisoner There is another thing that is The teaching the Scholars at St. Omers that I taught the Scholars their Lessons Turner Sollic Gen. Pray inform my Lord and the Jury what time it was you saw Mr. Dangerfield at my Lord Castlemains L. C. J. What Month can you charge your self to say you saw Dangerfield in my Lord Castlemains company Turner I can't say just the time L. C. J. Might it be August Turner I can't well tell I think it might be about July J. Raymond Why do you think so L. C. J. You are not asked to accuse your self in any thing but when you saw them together Turner I was coming down stairs my Lord. J. Raymond You don't tell when it was L. C. J. Tell us whether you can tell or no If you are doubtful say you are doubtful but speak the truth Turner I can't be positive L. C. J. It might be in June or July or August but you think July Turner Yes Sir Sir F. W. The sooner it is after that the Evidence is the better against it Att. Gen. Madam I think your Ladiship says you never sent a Letter by Dangerfield Lady Powis Yes Sir Att. Gen Nor did you never receive any Notes from him Lady Powis I have received some Notes from Mrs. Cellier which were his Writing L. C. J. But did you ever receive a Letter from my Lord Castlemain Lady Powis Never my Lord. Woodman J. Raymond What do you say Mr. Atturney Att. Gen Heark you Woodman were you sent with any Letter Woodman To whom Att. General To my Lord Castlemain or any body Woodman I was sent with one Letter it was Mrs. Celliers my Lord. L. C. J. To whom Woodman To my Lord Castlemain as I remember my Lord I took it from Mrs. Celliers Daughter Att. Gen. Did you ever receive any money of my Lord Castlemain Woodman Yes my Lord. L. C. J. What was it How much was it Woodman About Three Pounds or Thirty Shillings I believe L. C. J. How do you believe it Woodman To the best of my thoughts it was Att. Gen. Was it for Dangerfield Woodman My Lord I don't know that L. C. J. Have you any more Solic Gen. My Lord I have this to say to prove Dr. Oates was in London in April 78. L. C. J. He doth not deny but he might be here too Prisoner I don't dispute it my Lord I have only this one word more It is not of Treason but it is against my Reputation because this man before your Lordship I think hath accused me of it and I think my Lord I shall give you very good satisfction that is that the boys that came from St. Omers were not instructed and taught by me Now if you please my Lord to give me leave to shew it I have done Look my Lord the thing that I can say is this Mr. Littcott J. Raymond You see he said it was morally impossible Prisoner Pray my Lords J. Raymond I will undertake you will say it is time lost L. C. J. I would stay some time to observe to the Jury what I have taken notice of with all my heart but I should be gone Prisoner I have done my Lord I would not say any thing to disgust any body L. C. J. Gentlemen of the Jury I will deliver my Observations in this Cause as I would in any Cause to the best of my Understanding and will make those Observations that are as Natural as I know how to do and proper for you to take notice of It is in vain to dispute what my Lord stands indicted of It is for attempting to murder the King and change our Government and our Religion To prove this there hath been Two Witnesses only that are material and that is Mr. Oates in the first place and Mr. Oates his Evidence the Sum of it is to be reduced L. C. J. Mr. Atturney do you stand up to speak any thing Att. Gen. If your Lordship pleases we will Sum up the Evidence for the King not to offend your Lordship L. C. J. If you would be short Mr. Atturney we would not hinder you of any thing Att. Gen. I 'll be very short If it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury My Lord Castlemain is here charged with High Treason The proof that we have against him is by two Witnesses that is Dr. Oates and Mr. Dangerfield
as to the business of the Divorce I might look upon it as impertinent and so possibly might not mind what he said Prisoner I only offer this to you and if your Lordships command me to desist I will desist Dr. Oates I desire my Evidence to prove that I was in Town J. Raymond Pray Mr. Oates you are an Evidence you must be govern'd by Mr. Atturney L. C. J. It would be very fit Mr. Atturney to prove that Mr. Oates did come over with Hilsley in the Pacquet Boat J. Raymond Mr. Oates I remember very well gave an Account of his coming over said he I did come over with such and such persons and among the rest was Mr. Hilsley This is only to prove that he was at the Consult Att. Gen. We can prove it Records produced against Mr. Dangerfield L. C. J. Here is That he was burnt in the hand and Outlawed for Felony Pilloryed for Cheating Twice Pilloryed and see whether he was Whipt or no. Sir F. W. I know nothing of the Pillory J. Raymond Here was a Record of being burnt in the hand and a Record for putting away false Guinneys L. C. J. For that he was to stand in the Pillory Clerk of the Crown Here is one Record for another Shilling gilt L. C. J. Was that in the Pillory too Att. Gen. He was fined Fifty Pounds Clerk of the Crown Here are Three in Salisbury for Three several Guinneys and he was Adjudged to the Pillory for them all Att. Gen. It was all at one Assizes my Lord. L. C. J. My Brother Tryed him Clerk of the Crown He was Tryed before Mr. Justice Jones and to stand in the Pillory for all three L. C. J. What have you else to say Prisoner Call Mrs. Cellier and Mr. Dowdal L. C. J. What is your Name Sir Dowdal My Name is Bennet Dowdal L. C. J. What have you to say to him my Lord Prisoner Mr. Dowdal the case is this Mr. Dangerfield tells me I was angry with him at such a time for a business at my house was I not angry with him at Powis house for going to the Lords in the Tower Att. General Then he did go about it Dowdal Mrs. Cellier spake to me to speak to Mr. Dangerfield not to be troubled at your anger J. Raymond When was this Dowdal After the Jesuites died Prisoner He proves this That Mrs. Cellier spake to him to pacify Mr. Dangerfield and Dangerfield did tell him I was angry with him for going in my Name to the Lords J. Raymond He says no such thing my Lord. L. C. J. You must not ask him what Mrs. Cellier said Mrs. Cellier This day Twelve Month he and I had been employed in writing Copies of some Letters and I sent him to my Lord to know if he would go something towards the Printing them and he went from him to the Lords in the Tower In an hour and half after my Lord came to me very angry Mrs. Cellier said he I thought you would not forfeit your discretion to send such a Rascal to me if you send him to me again I will bid my Servants kick him And said I to Mr. Dangerfield you are not to note that for he is a very good Man and may be angry one time and pleased another and I would have sent him another time and said he Pray Madam don't send me thither I would rather go an hundred miles of your Errand L. C. J. Dangerfield that Discourse you had with my Lord was it before the Jesuits dyed or after Mr. Dangerfield What Discourse L. C. J. When you discours'd about killing the King Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord Two months after L. C. J. When was the time that these words were spoken Mr. Dangerfield When his Lordship was in that Passion L. C. J. When was that Mr. Dangerfield My Lord it was about the middle of August L. C. J. Was you ever in his Company after Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord I saw him once at Powis House L. C. J. Had he ever been angry before Mr. Dangerfield No not till this time my Lord. L. C. J. Here Mrs. Cellier witnesses that this day twelve month my Lord was extreamly angry insomuch that when she would have had you go on an Errand you would not Mr. Dangerfield My Lord that time I had been with my Lord Castlemain I went home to Mrs. Celliers house which I did then call my home and said I My Lord Castlemain is most violently angry with me L. C. J. When was this Mr. Dangerfield This was the latter end of August L. C. J. But she talks of this time Twelve-month Mr. Dangerfield It is no such thing my Lord. Mrs. Cellier I said Pray carry this Letter to my Lord Castlemain Pray excuse me said he I had rather go an hundred Miles than go by his door L. C. J. Whereas Dangerfield says He had this Discourse in August Mrs. Cellier says in June or July this day twelve-month particularly she gave him a Letter and he said Pray excuse me I would go an Hundred Miles for you but I would not go into my Lords Company again if I could help it Prisoner My Lord Mr. Dowdal can tell it L. C. J. Did he acknowledg to you my Lords anger in the beginning of July Dowdal It was within a week after the Jesuits died L. C. J. I don't know that Dowdal It was about the Twenty first of June L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses one saies in June or the beginning of July says Mrs. Cellier this day twelve-month he came and told me my Lord was extreamly angry with him And she would afterwards have had him carried a Letter But he said Pray excuse me I would go an hundred miles but he would not go again to him if he could help it And Dowdal says he told him about that time of my Lords anger with him Att. Gen. Hold your tongue Mr. Dangerfield J. Raymond What Jesuits Dowdal The five Jesuits Prisoner If you please my Lords I would only tell you this My Lords you see that these two Witnesses testify that I was angry with Mr. Dangerfield in June My Lords I only say this to you that when I was Examined at the Council before the King of this Particular my Lord Chancellour asked him the Particulars of it and he did confess this thing which I now prove Now my Lords I inferr this if I was so angry with him for offering to go to the Tower when he went to the Tower in my Name L. C. J. That they have said that you were very angry Dowdal Dangerfield told me so that he was angry about his going to the Tower in my Lords Name unknown to him L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses to prove that my Lord was angry with him for going to the Tower in his name and they both testify he was extreamly high and refused to carry a Letter to my Lord and yet he says in August following he had this Discourse Prisoner