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lord_n baron_n earl_n viscount_n 17,931 5 11.9058 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A25628 An Ansvver to this quodlibetical question, whether the bishops make a fundamental and essential part of the English Parliament collected out of some memorials in a larger treatise for the information of some, the confirmation of others, and the satisfaction of all. 1661 (1661) Wing A3454; ESTC R22861 15,455 24

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remember_v what_o be_v say_v before_o touch_v the_o writ_n of_o summons_n in_o the_o say_v king_n time_n from_o this_o time_n till_o the_o last_o parliament_n of_o king_n charles_n there_o be_v no_o king_n reign_v of_o which_o we_o have_v not_o many_o though_o not_o all_o the_o act_n of_o parliament_n still_o in_o print_n among_o we_o nor_o be_v there_o any_o act_n of_o parliament_n in_o the_o print_a book_n to_o the_o enact_v of_o which_o the_o bishop_n approbation_n and_o consent_n be_v not_o plain_o specify_v either_o in_o the_o general_a proem_n set_v before_o the_o act_n or_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o act_n themselves_o as_o by_o the_o book_n themselves_o do_v at_o large_a appear_v 7_o and_o to_o this_o kind_n of_o proof_n may_v be_v further_o add_v the_o form_n and_o manner_n of_o the_o writ_n by_o which_o the_o prelate_n in_o all_o time_n have_v be_v call_v to_o parliament_n be_v the_o very_a law_n verbatim_o with_o that_o which_o be_v direct_v to_o the_o temporal_a baron_n 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optimatum_fw-la 630._o optimatum_fw-la ap_fw-mi h._n spel._n in_o council_n p._n 630._o with_o the_o counsel_n and_o decree_n of_o the_o archbishop_n bishop_n earls_z and_o other_o of_o his_o noble_n and_o all_o this_o while_n the_o bishop_n and_o other_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n do_v hold_v by_o no_o other_o tenure_n than_o in_o purô_o &_o perpetuô_o eleemosynâ_fw-la brit._n eleemosynâ_fw-la camden_n in_o brit._n or_o frank_a almoigne_z as_o our_o lawyer_n call_v it_o and_o therefore_o sit_v in_o parliament_n in_o no_o other_o capacity_n than_o as_o spiritual_a person_n mere_o who_o by_o their_o extraordinary_a knowledge_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o in_o such_o other_o part_n of_o learning_n as_o the_o world_n than_o know_v be_v think_v best_o able_a to_o direct_v and_o advise_v their_o prince_n in_o all_o point_n of_o difficulty_n but_o when_o the_o norman_a conqueror_n have_v possess_v the_o state_n than_o the_o case_n be_v alter_v the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n 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negotia_fw-la dieisa_fw-la litigia_fw-la say_v the_o monk_n of_o malmsbury_n 5._o malmsbury_n mal●b_n hist._n reg._n ang._n l._n 5._o and_o of_o this_o parliament_n it_o be_v i_o take_v it_o that_o edmor_n speak_v hist_n novel_a l._n 4._o p._n 91._o proceed_v we_o 4ly_v to_o king_n henry_n the_o second_o for_o king_n stephen_n reign_n be_v so_o full_a of_o war_n and_o tumult_n that_o there_o be_v very_o little_a to_o be_v find_v of_o parliament_n and_o there_o we_o find_v the_o bishop_n with_o the_o other_o peer_n convene_v in_o parliament_n for_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o point_n in_o controversy_n between_o alphonso_n king_n of_o castille_n and_o sancho_n king_n of_o navarre_n refer_v by_o compromise_n to_o the_o king_n of_o england_n and_o here_o determine_v by_o king_n henry_n among_o other_o thing_n habito_fw-la cum_fw-la episcopis_fw-la comitibus_fw-la &_o baronibus_fw-la cum_fw-la deliberatione_n consilio_fw-la as_o in_o roger_n hoveden_n 2._o hoveden_n hoveden_n annal._n pac_fw-la rose_n in_o h_n n._n 2._o 5_o next_o time_n come_v richard_n the_o first_o his_o son_n during_o who_o imprisonment_n by_o the_o d._n of_o austria_n his_o brother_n john_n then_o earl_n of_o moriton_n endeavour_v by_o force_n and_o cunning_n in_o normandy_n to_o set_v the_o crown_n on_o his_o own_o head_n which_o cause_v hubert_n the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n to_o call_v a_o parliament_n convocatis_fw-la coram_fw-la eo_fw-la episcopis_fw-la comitibus_fw-la &_o baronibus_fw-la regni_fw-la i●h_n regni_fw-la id._n in_o i●h_n wherein_o the_o bishop_n earls_z and_o baron_n do_v with_o one_o consent_n agree_v to_o seize_v on_o his_o estate_n and_o suppress_v his_o power_n the_o better_a to_o preserve_v the_o kingdom_n in_o wealth_n peace_n and_o safety_n 6_o after_o succeed_v john_n and_o he_o call_v a_o parliament_n wherein_o be_v certain_a law_n make_v for_o the_o defence_n of_o this_o kingdom_n communi_fw-la ascensu_fw-la archiepiscoporum_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la comitum_fw-la baronum_fw-la &_o omnium_fw-la fidelium_fw-la suorum_fw-la angliae_fw-la by_o the_o common_a counsel_n and_o assent_v of_o the_o archbishop_n bishop_n earls_z baron_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o liege_n
much_o as_o in_o answer_n unto_o that_o record_n suppose_v that_o the_o word_n thereof_o be_v right_o sence_v as_o i_o think_v they_o be_v not_o and_o that_o by_o clerus_fw-la there_o we_o be_v to_o understand_v archbishop_n and_o bishop_n as_o i_o think_v we_o be_v not_o there_o be_v no_o record_n i_o dare_v bold_o say_v it_o either_o of_o history_n or_o law_n in_o which_o the_o word_n clerus_fw-la serve_v to_o signify_v the_o archbishop_n and_o bishop_n exclusive_a of_o the_o other_o clergy_n or_o any_o writing_n whatsoever_o wherein_o it_o do_v not_o either_o signify_v the_o whole_a clergy_n general_o or_o the_o inferior_a clergy_n only_o exclusive_a of_o the_o archbishop_n bishop_n and_o other_o prelate_n therefore_o in_o answer_n unto_o that_o so_o much_o applaud_v cavil_v of_o excluso_fw-la clero_fw-la from_o what_o record_n soever_o it_o either_o have_v be_v hitherto_o or_o shall_v hereafter_o be_v produce_v i_o shall_v propose_v it_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o sober_a reader_n whether_o by_o clerus_fw-la in_o that_o place_n or_o in_o any_o other_o of_o that_o kind_n and_o time_n we_o must_v not_o understand_v the_o inferior_a clergy_n as_o they_o stand_v distinguish_v in_o the_o law_n from_o my_o lord_n the_o bishop_n for_o howsoever_o it_o be_v true_a that_o clerus_fw-la in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a notion_n of_o the_o word_n do_v signify_v the_o whole_a clergy_n general_o archbishop_n bishop_n priest_n and_o deacon_n yet_o in_o the_o legal_a notion_n of_o it_o it_o stand_v distinguish_v from_o the_o prelate_n and_o signifi_v only_o the_o inferior_a clergy_n thus_o do_v we_o find_v the_o ecclesiastic_n of_o this_o realm_n divide_v into_o prelate_n man_n of_o religion_n and_o other_o clerk_n 3_o edw._n 1._o cap._n 1._o the_o secular_o either_o into_o prelate_n and_o clerk_n 9_o edw._n 2._o cap._n 3._o 1_o rich._n 2._o cap._n 3._o or_o prelate_n and_o clerk_n benefice_v 18_o edw._n 3._o cap._n 2._o or_o general_o into_o the_o prelate_n and_o the_o clergy_n 9_o edw._n 2._o cap._n 15._o 14_o edw._n 3._o cap._n 1._o and_o 3._o 18_o edw._n 3.2.7_o and_o 25_o edw._n 3.2.4_o and_o 8_o of_o hen._n 6._o cap._n 1._o and_o in_o all_o act_n and_o grant_v of_o subsidy_n make_v by_o the_o clergy_n to_o the_o king_n or_o queen_n of_o england_n since_o the_o 32_o of_o hen._n 8._o when_o the_o clergy_n subsidy_n first_o begin_v to_o be_v confirm_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n so_o also_o in_o the_o latin_a idiom_n which_o come_v near_a home_n nos_fw-la prelati_fw-la &_o clerus_fw-la in_o the_o submission_n of_o the_o clergy_n to_o king_n henry_n the_o eight_o watham_n eight_o regist_n watham_n and_o in_o the_o sentence_n of_o divorce_n against_o anne_n of_o clere_n cranmer_n clere_n regist_n cranmer_n and_o in_o the_o instrument_n of_o the_o grant_n of_o the_o clergy_n subsidy_n present_v to_o the_o king_n of_o england_n ever_o since_o the_o 27_o of_o queen_n eliz._n and_o in_o the_o form_n of_o the_o certificate_n per_fw-la fince_o per_fw-la stat._n 8._o eliz._n c._n 17._o &_o ever_o fince_o praelatos_fw-la &_o clerum_fw-la return_v by_o every_o bishop_n to_o the_o lord_n high_a treasurer_n and_o final_o nos_fw-la episcopi_fw-la &_o clerus_fw-la cantuatiensis_fw-la provinciae_fw-la in_o hac_fw-la synodo_fw-it more_fw-it nostro_fw-la solito_fw-la dum_fw-la regni_fw-la parliamentum_fw-la celebratur_fw-la congregati_fw-la 8._o congregati_fw-la stat._n 1._o phil._n &_o mary_n c._n 8._o in_o the_o petition_n to_o k_o k._n philip_n and_o mary_n about_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o abbey_n land_n to_o the_o patentee_n so_o that_o though_o many_o statute_n have_v be_v make_v in_o these_o latter_a time_n excluso_fw-la clero_fw-la the_o clergy_n that_o be_v to_o say_v the_o inferior_a clergy_n who_o ancient_o have_v their_o place_n in_o parliament_n be_v quite_o shut_v out_o and_o utter_o exclude_v from_o those_o public_a council_n yet_o this_o prove_v nothing_o to_o the_o point_n that_o any_o act_n of_o parliament_n have_v be_v count_v good_a to_o which_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o call_v or_o at_o the_o make_n of_o which_o act_n they_o either_o be_v shut_v out_o by_o force_n or_o exclude_v by_o cunning._n but_o then_o beside_o the_o so_o much_o celebrate_v argument_n of_o excluso_fw-la clero_fw-la the_o author_n of_o the_o pamphlet_n before_o remember_v have_v tell_v we_o somewhat_o on_o the_o credit_n of_o kilbancy_n book_n in_o which_o the_o justice_n be_v make_v to_o say_v 7_o hen._n 8._o that_o our_o sovereign_a lord_n the_o king_n may_v well_o hold_v his_o parliament_n by_o he_o and_o his_o temporal_a lord_n and_o by_o the_o commons_o also_o without_o the_o spiritual_a lord_n for_o that_o the_o spiritual_a lord_n have_v not_o any_o place_n in_o the_o parliament_n chamber_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o spiritualty_n but_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o temporal_a possession_n but_o first_o this_o be_v but_o the_o opinion_n of_o a_o private_a man_n of_o no_o authority_n or_o esteem_n for_o aught_o we_o can_v find_v in_o the_o realm_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o not_o conclude_v in_o so_o great_a a_o business_n and_o 2_o admit_v he_o to_o be_v a_o man_n of_o more_o note_n and_o credit_n than_o perhaps_o he_o be_v yet_o he_o must_v needs_o fall_v short_a in_o all_o respect_n both_o for_o ability_n and_o reputation_n of_o chief_a justice_n coke_n who_o judgement_n to_o the_o contrary_n we_o have_v see_v before_o but_o 3_o it_o run_v cross_v to_o the_o ancient_a practice_n of_o the_o saxon_a time_n in_o which_o the_o bishop_n sit_v in_o parliament_n as_o spiritual_a person_n without_o relation_n to_o their_o temporal_a possession_n or_o their_o baron_n fee_n as_o afterward_o in_o the_o reign_n of_o the_o norman_a king_n and_o final_o admit_v that_o kilbancies_n plea_n be_v of_o weight_n enough_o to_o keep_v the_o bishop_n down_o from_o rise_v to_o their_o place_n in_o parliament_n it_o must_v be_v strong_a enough_o to_o exclude_v all_o the_o temporal_a lord_n the_o temporal_a lord_n be_v call_v to_o parliament_n on_o no_o other_o ground_n than_o for_o the_o temporal_a possession_n which_o they_o hold_v by_o barony_n adeo_fw-la argumenta_fw-la ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la petita_fw-la ineptos_fw-la habent_fw-la exitus_fw-la say_v lactantius_n true_o it_o be_v the_o fate_n say_v he_o of_o ill_a choose_a premise_n that_o they_o produce_v ridiculous_a and_o absurd_a conclusion_n there_o remain_v one_o objection_n more_o and_o indeed_o the_o great_a not_o extant_a in_o the_o pamphlet_n before_o remember_v though_o possible_o promote_v and_o occasion_v by_o it_o that_o be_v to_o say_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v exclude_v from_o their_o place_n and_o vote_n by_o act_n of_o parliament_n deliberate_o make_v and_o pass_v by_o the_o king_n consent_n for_o answer_v whereunto_o it_o will_v be_v necessary_a first_o to_o state_n this_o question_n viz._n whether_o that_o any_o two_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n confirm_v or_o agree_v together_o may_v conclude_v any_o thing_n which_o tend_v to_o the_o subversion_n of_o the_o three_o bodinus_fw-la that_o renown_a statesman_n have_v resolve_v it_o negative_o and_o determine_v thus_o nihil_fw-la a_fw-la duobus_fw-la ordinibus_fw-la discerni_fw-la posse_fw-la quo_fw-la uni_fw-la ex_fw-la tribus_fw-la incommodum_fw-la inferatur_fw-la etc._n etc._n 7._o etc._n bodin_n de_fw-fr rep._n l._n 3._o s._n 7._o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v do_v by_o two_o of_o the_o three_o estate_n to_o the_o disprofit_v of_o the_o three_o in_o case_n the_o point_n propose_v be_v such_o as_o concern_v they_o several_o and_o he_o resolve_v thus_o in_o favour_n of_o the_o commons_o of_o the_o realm_n of_o france_n who_o be_v upon_o the_o point_n of_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o parliament_n or_o convention_n of_o the_o three_o estate_n if_o he_o have_v not_o notable_o bestir_v himself_o in_o their_o behalf_n he_o be_v then_o a_o delegate_n or_o commissioner_n for_o one_o of_o the_o province_n and_o by_o his_o diligence_n and_o care_n preserve_v their_o interest_n and_o to_o preserve_v their_o interest_n he_o insist_v chief_o on_o the_o ancient_a custom_n of_o the_o realm_n of_o france_n as_o also_o of_o the_o realm_n of_o spain_n and_o england_n and_o the_o roman_a empire_n in_o each_o of_o which_o it_o be_v receive_v for_o a_o rule_v case_n nihil_fw-la a_o duobus_fw-la ordinibus_fw-la statui_fw-la posse_fw-la quo_fw-la uni_fw-la ex_fw-la tribus_fw-la prejudicium_fw-la crearetur_fw-la that_o nothing_o can_v be_v do_v by_o any_o of_o the_o two_o estate_n unto_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o three_o and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o rule_v case_n then_o in_o the_o english_a parliament_n there_o be_v no_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o the_o present_a time_n the_o equity_n and_o justice_n of_o it_o be_v still_o the_o same_o and_o the_o same_o reason_n for_o it_o now_o as_o forcible_a as_o they_o can_v be_v then_o have_v it_o be_v otherwise_o resolve_v of_o in_o the_o former_a age_n wherein_o the_o clergy_n be_v so_o prevalent_a in_o all_o public_a counsel_n how_o easy_a a_o matter_n have_v it_o be_v for_o they_o either_o by_o join_v with_o all_o the_o nobility_n to_o exclude_v the_o commons_o or_o by_o join_v with_o the_o comonalty_n to_o exclude_v the_o noble_n or_o have_v too_o much_o conscience_n to_o venture_v in_o so_o great_a a_o change_n and_o alteration_n so_o incompatible_a inconsistent_a with_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o parliament_n how_o easy_o may_v they_o have_v suppress_v the_o potency_n and_o impair_v the_o priveleges_n of_o either_o of_o the_o other_o two_o by_o work_v on_o the_o humour_n or_o affection_n of_o the_o one_o to_o keep_v down_o the_o other_o nor_o do_v it_o help_v the_o matter_n in_o the_o least_o degree_n to_o say_v that_o the_o exclusion_n of_o the_o bishop_n from_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n be_v not_o do_v mere_o by_o the_o procurement_n of_o some_o of_o the_o other_o two_o estate_n but_o by_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o king_n of_o who_o the_o law_n say_v he_o can_v do_v no_o wrong_n and_o by_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n whereof_o our_o lawyer_n say_v que_fw-fr nul_fw-fr doit_fw-fr imaginer_n choose_v dishonourable_a commentar_n dishonourable_a plowden_n in_o commentar_n that_o no_o man_n be_v to_o think_v dishonourable_a for_o we_o know_v well_o in_o what_o condition_n the_o king_n be_v when_o he_o pass_v that_o act_n to_o what_o extremity_n he_o be_v reduce_v on_o what_o term_n he_o stand_v how_o he_o be_v force_v to_o withdraw_v from_o his_o city_n of_o london_n to_o part_v with_o his_o dear_a wife_n and_o child_n and_o in_o a_o word_n so_o overpowred_n by_o the_o prevail_a party_n in_o the_o two_o house_n of_o parliament_n that_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o he_o as_o his_o case_n then_o be_v to_o deny_v they_o any_o thing_n and_o for_o the_o act_n of_o parliament_n thus_o insist_v on_o beside_o that_o the_o bill_n have_v be_v reject_v when_o it_o be_v first_o bring_v unto_o the_o lord_n and_o that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v fright_v out_o of_o the_o house_n when_o contrary_a unto_o the_o course_n of_o parliament_n it_o be_v bring_v again_o it_o be_v a_o point_n resolve_v both_o in_o law_n and_o reason_n that_o the_o parliament_n can_v do_v nothing_o to_o the_o destruction_n of_o itself_o and_o that_o such_o act_n as_o be_v under_o a_o constraint_n be_v not_o good_a and_o valid_a whereof_o we_o have_v a_o fair_a example_n in_o the_o book_n of_o statute_n 3._o statute_n 15_o ed._n 3._o for_o whereas_o the_o king_n have_v grant_v certain_a article_n pretend_v to_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o form_n of_o a_o statute_n express_o contrary_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o realm_n and_o his_o own_o prerogative_n and_o right_n royal_a mark_v it_o for_o this_o be_v just_a the_o case_n which_o he_o have_v yield_v to_o escue_v the_o danger_n which_o by_o deny_v of_o the_o same_o be_v like_a to_o follow_v in_o the_o same_o parliament_n it_o be_v repeal_v in_o these_o follow_a word_n it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o say_a earl_n baron_n and_o other_o wise_a man_n that_o since_o the_o statute_n do_v not_o proceed_v of_o our_o free_a will_n the_o same_o be_v void_a and_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v the_o name_n nor_o strength_n of_o a_o statute_n and_o therefore_o by_o their_o counsel_n and_o assent_v we_o have_v decree_v the_o say_a statute_n to_o be_v void_a etc._n etc._n or_o if_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v repeal_v in_o a_o formal_a manner_n yet_o be_v this_o act_n however_o get_v void_a in_o effect_n already_o by_o a_o former_a statute_n in_o which_o it_o be_v enact_v in_o full_a parliament_n and_o at_o the_o self_n same_o place_n where_o this_o act_n be_v gain_v that_o the_o great_a charter_n by_o which_o and_o many_o other_o title_n the_o bishop_n hold_v their_o place_n in_o parliament_n shall_v be_v keep_v in_o all_o point_n and_o if_o any_o statute_n be_v make_v to_o the_o contrary_a it_o shall_v be_v hold_v for_o none_o 1._o none_o 42_o ed._n 3._o c._n 1._o more_o argument_n than_o these_o against_o the_o bishop_n place_n and_o vote_n in_o parliament_n i_o have_v not_o where_o find_v and_o these_o be_v answer_v and_o refell_v i_o hope_v the_o point_n in_o question_n have_v be_v fair_o prove_v viz._n that_o the_o bishop_n make_v a_o fundamental_a and_o essential_a part_n of_o our_o english_a parliament_n finis_fw-la