THE PROCEEDINGS AND TRYAL IN THE CASE OF The Most Reverend Father in GOD WILLIAM Lord Archbishop of CANTERBURY And the Right Reverend Fathers in God WILLIAM Lord Bishop of St. Asaph FRANCIS Lord Bishop of Ely IOHN Lord Bishop of Chichester THOMAS Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells THOMAS Lord Bishop of Peterborough And IONATHAN Lord Bishop of Bristol In the Court of Kings-Bench at Westminster in Trinity-Term in the Fourth Year of the Reign of King Iames the Second Annoque Dom. 1688. Licensed and Entred according to Act of Parliament LONDON Printed for Thomas Basset at the George in Fleet street and Thomas Fox at the Angel in Westminster-Hall 1689. TO HIS Most Illustrious HIGHNESS WILLIAM HENRY Prince of Orange May it please Your Highness HOW deeply the Design was laid and with what Violence carry'd on by those who lately Steer'd the Helm of this State for the Subversion of the Establish'd Religion and Government of these Three Kingdoms is already sufficiently well known to Your Highness Among the rest one of their Chiefest Contrivances was by a Malicious and Illegal Prosecution to have extinguish'd the Brigthest Luminaries of the English Church to the end that the benighted People might the more easily after that have been misled into the Pitfals of Superstition and Slavery But as Heaven began their Disappointment in eluding both at once there Subtilty and Malice by the speedy Deliverance of the Seven Renowned Sufferers from the Jaws of their Oppressors So the utter Dissolution of their Arbitrary Command and Domineering Power under the Conduct of the same Providence was fully Compleated Great SIR by Your Deliberative Prudence and Undaunted Courage To Your Illustrious Highness therefore the Oblation of these Sheets containing an exact Accompt of the Prosecution and Tryal of those Heroick Prelates is most justly due as being That wherein Your Higness may in part discern the Justice of the Cause You have so Generously undertaken and that it was not without Reason that the English Nation so loudly Implor'd Your timely Assistance A clear convincement that it was not Ambition nor the desire of spacious Rule but a Noble and Ardent Zeal for the most Sacred Worship of God which rows'd Your Courage to rescue a Distressed Land whose Religion Laws and Liberties were just ready to have been overwhelm'd with French Tyranny and Romish Idolatry Therefore that the Nation may long continue under the Protection of Your Glorious Administration is the Prayer of Great SIR Your Highnesses most Humble Most Faithful and most Obedient Servants Tho. Basset Tho. Fox December 13. 1688. NOT long after the Tryal of his Grace the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and the other Six Bishops and while the Passages thereof were fresh in my Memory I perused that Copy of this Proceeding and Tryal which Mr. Ince their Lordships Attorney had caused to be taken for their Use And I have also lately read over the same again as intended to be printed by Mr. Basset and Mr. Fox And I do think it to be a very Exact and True Copy of the said Proceeding and Tryal according to the best of my Judgment having been very careful in perusing thereof Ioh. Powel These Peers were present on the 15th Day of Iune 1688. when the Lords the Archbishop and Bishops were brought into Court from the Tower upon the Habeas Corpus VIZ. Lord Marquis of Hallifax Lord Marquis of Worcester Earl of Shrewsbury Earl of Kent Earl of Bedford Earl of Dorset Earl of Bullingbrook Earl of Manchester Earl of Burlington Earl of Carlisle Earl of Danby Earl of Radnor Earl of Nottingham Lord Viscount Fauconberge Lord Grey of Ruthyn Lord Paget Lord Chandoys Lord Vaughan Carbery These Peers were present on the Day of the Tryal being the 29th of Iune 1688. and the Feast of St. Peter and St. Paul. VIZ. Lord Marquis of Hallifax Lord Marquis of Worcester Earl of Shrewsbury Earl of Kent Earl of Bedford Earl of Pembrook Earl of Dorset Earl of Bullingbrook Earl of Manchester Earl of Rivers Earl of Stamford Earl of Carnarvon Earl of Chesterfield Earl of Scarsdale Earl of Clarendon Earl of Danby Earl of Sussex Earl of Radnor Earl of Nottingham Earl of Abington Lord Viscount Fauconberge Lord Newport Lord Grey of Ruthyn Lord Paget Lord Chandoys Lord Vaughan Carbery Lord Lumley Lord Carteret Lord Ossulston 'T is possible more of the Peers might be present both Days whose Names by reason of the Croud could not be taken De Termino Sanctae Trinitatis Anno Regni Jacobi Secundi Regis Quarto In Banco Regis Die Veneris Decimo Quinto Die Junii 1688. Dominus Rex versus Archiep. Cantuar. al. Sir Robert Wright Lord Chief Justice Mr. Justice Holloway Mr. Justice Powell Mr. Justice Allybone Judges THIS being the first day of the Term His Majesties Attorney General as soon as the Court of Kings Bench was sat moved on the behalf of the King for a Habeas Corpus returnable immediate directed to the Lieutenant of the Tower to bring up his Grace the Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and the Bishops of St. Asaph Ely Chichester Bath and Wells Peterborough and Bristol which was granted And with great dispatch about eleven a Clock the very same day the Lieutenant returned his Writ and brought the said Lord Arch-Bishop and Bishops into Court where being set down in Chairs set for that purpose Mr. Attorney-General moved the Court. Viz. Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I pray that the Writ and Retorn may be read by which my Lords the Bishops are brought hither Lo. Ch. Iust. Read the Retorn Clerk reads the Retorn which in English is as follows viz. I Sir Edward Hales Baronet Lieutenant of the Tower of London named in the Writ to this Schedule annext To Our Mâ—… Serene Lord the King do most humbly certifie That before the coming of the said Writ to wit the Eighth day of June in the Fourth Year of the Reign of our Lord James the Second King of England c. William Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury William Lord Bishop of St. Asaph Francis Lord Bishop of Ely John Lord Bishop of Chichester Thomas Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Lord Bishop of Peterborough and Jonathan Lord Bishop of Bristol mentioned in the aforesaid Writ were committed and delivered to and are retained in my Custody by Vertue of a certain Warrant under the Hands and Seals of George Lord Jeffries Baron of Wem Lord High Chancellor of England Robert Earl of Sunderland Lord President of the Privy Council of our Lord the King Henry Lord Arundel of Warder Keeper of the Pivy Seal of our said Lord the King William Marquess of Powis John Earl of Mulgrave Lord Great Chamberlain of England Theophilus Earl of Huntingtou Henry Earl of Peterborough William Earl of Craven Alexander Earl of Moray Charles Earl of Middleton John Earl of Melfort Roger Earl of Castlemain Richard Viscount Preston George Lord Dartmouth Sidney Lord Godolphin Henry Lord Dover Sir John Earnly Knight Chancellor of the
Exchequer of our said Lord the King Sir Edward Herbert Knight Chief Iustice of the Common Bench of our Lord the King and Sir Nicholas Butler Knight Lords of his Majesties Most Honourable Privy Council to me directed the Tenor of which Warrant follows in these Words viz. THESE are in his Majesties Name and by his Command to require you to take into your Custody the Persons of William Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury William Lord Bishop of St. Asaph Francis Lord Bishop of Ely Iohn Lord Bishop of Chichester Thomas Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Lord Bishop of Peterborough and Ionathan Lord Bishop of Bristol For Contriving Making and Publishing a Seditious Libel in Writing against his Majesty and his Government and them safely to keep in your Custody until they shall be delivered by due Course of Law For which this shall be your sufficient Warrant At the Council Chamber in White-Hall this Eighth day of Iune 1688. And this is the Cause of the taking and detaining c. Lord Ch. Iust. Well What do you desire Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. We pray for the King that the Return may be filed L. Ch. Iust. Let it be filed Mr. Att. Gen. By this Retorn your Lordship observes what it is my Lords the Bishops were committed to the Tower for it is by Warrant from the Council Board where when their Lordships appeared they were not pleased to give their Recognizances to appear here as they were required by the King to do and there upon they were committed to the Tower and now come before the Court upon this Retorn of the King 's Writ of Habeas Corpus and by the Retorn it does appear it was for Contriving Writing Framing and Publishing a Seditious Libell against His Majesty and the Government My Lord it is our Duty who are the King's Councel pursuant to our Orders to prosecute such kind of Offences and when the proper time shall come for us to open the nature of the Offence your Lordships will then judge what reason there is for this Prosecution but in the mean time what we are now to offer to your Lordship is The Officer of this Court has an Information against his Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury and the rest of my Lords the Bishops which we desire may be read to them and pray that they may plead to it according to the Course of the Court. Sir Rob. Sawyer If it please your Lordship to spare us a word for my Lords the Bishops Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord We pray for the King the Information may be read Sir Rob. Sawyer We define to be heard a word first Mr. Soll. Gen. We oppose your speaking any thing till the Information hath been read Sir Rob. Sawyer But what we have to offer is proper before it be read Mr. Att. Gen. Your time is not yet come Sir Robert. Sir Rob. Sawyer Yes this is our proper time for what we have to say and therefore we move it now before there be any other proceedings in this matter Mr. Soll. Gen. It is irregular to move any thing yet pray let the Information be read first Mr. S. Pemberton If your Lordship please to spare us we will offer nothing but what is fit for us to do Sir Rob. Sawyer And now is our proper time for it Mr. Soll. Gen. Gentlemen You do know the way of Proceeding in such Cases better than so I am sure as for you Sir Robert Sawyer you have often oppos'd any such Motion as irregular and I hope the Case is not alter'd however you may be the course of the Court is the same Sir Rob. Sawyer With submission if your Lordship please to spare me a word that which I would move is to discharge my Lords the Bishops upon this Return and from their Commitment upon this Warrant Mr. Att. Gen. Surely these Gentlemen think to have a Liberty above all other People here is an Information which we pray my Lords the Bishops may hear read and plead to Mr. Soll. Gen. Certainly Sir Rob. Sawyer you would not have done thus half a year ago Sir Rob. Sawyer What would not I have done I move regularly with Submission to discharge my Lords the Bishops from their Commitment If they are not here legally Imprisoned now they are before your Lordships upon this Writ then you will give us leave to move for their Discharge before any thing else be said to them and that is it we have to say to demand the Judgment of the Court upon this Return whether we are legally Imprisoned Mr. Att. Gen. Under Favour my Lord neither the Court nor they are ripe for any Motion of this Nature yet Mr. S. Pemberton If we do not move it now it will afterwards I fear be too late Mr. Soll. Gen. These Gentlemen are very forward but certainly they mistake their time this is a Habeas Corpus that 's brought by the King and not by the Prisoners and therefore they are too soon till they see what the King has to say to them Mr. Att. Gen. Your Lordship cannot as yet be moved for your Judgment about the Legality of this Commitment because this Writ was granted upon our Motion who are of Councel for the King and upon this Writ they are brought here and what is it we desire for the King Certainly nothing but what is Regular we have here an Information for the King against my Lords and we desire they may plead to it Mr. S. Pemberton Good my Lord will you please to hear us a little to this Matter L. C. Iust. Brother Pemberton we will not refuse to hear you by no means when you speak in your proper time but it is not so now for the King is pleased by his Attorney and Sollicitor to Charge these Noble Persons my Lords the Bishops with an Information and the Kings Councel call to have that Information read but you will not permit it to be read Mr. S. Pemberton Pray my Lord spare us a word if we are not here as Prisoners regularly before your Lordship and are not brought in by the due Proâ—… of the Court then certainly the Kings Councel or the Court have no Power to charge us with an Information therefore we beg that you will hear us to that in the first place whether we are Legally here before you Mr. Soll. Gen. These Gentlemen will have their proper time for such a Motion hereafter Mr. Pollexfen No Mr. Soll. this is without all Question our only time for it we shall have no time afterwards Mr. Att. Gen. Yes you will for what do we who are of Councel for the King now ask of the Court but that this Information may be read when that is done if we move to have my Lords the Bishops plead then they may move what they will but before we make that Motion they cannot break in upon us with their Motion and with Submission to your Lordship whether my Lords the Bishops were duely Committed
aforesaid William Archbishop of Canterbury of Lambeth in the County of Surrey William Bishop of St. Asaph of St. Asaph in the County of Flynt Francis Bishop of Ely of the Parish of St. Andrew Holbourn in the County of Middlesex Iohn Bishop of Chichester of Chichester in the County of Sussex Thomas Bishop of Bath and Wells of the City of Wells in the County of Somerset Thomas Bishop of Peterburgh of the Parish of St. Andrew Holbourn in the County of Middlesex and Ionathan Bishop of Bristol of the City of Bristol did consult and conspire among themselves to diminish the Regal Authority Royal Prerogative Power and Government of our said Lord the King in the premises and to infringe and clude the said Order and in prosecution and execution of the Conspiracy aforesaid They the said William Archbishop of Canterbury William Bishop of St. Asaph Francis Bishop of Ely Iohn Bishop of Chichester Thomas Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Bishop of Peterburgh and Ionathan Bishop of Bristol on the said eighteenth day of May in the fourth year of the Reign of our said Lord the King aforesaid with Force and Arms c. at Westminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly unlawfully maliciously seditiously and scandalously did frame compose and write and caused to be framed composed and written a certain false feigned malicious pernicious and seditious Libel in writing concerning our said Lord the King and his Royal Declaration and Order aforesaid under pretence of a Petition and the same false feigned malicious pernicious and seditious Libel by them the aforesaid William Archbishop of Canterbury William Bishop of St. Asaph Franois Bishop of Ely Iohn Bishop of Chichester Thomas Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Bishop of Peterburgh and Ionathan Bishop of Bristol with their own hands respectively being subscribed on the day and year and in the place last mentioned in the presence of our said Lord the King with Force and Arms c. did publish and cause to be published in which said false feigned malicious pernicious and seditious Libel is contained The humble Petition c. prout before in the Petition to these words reasonable construction in manifest contempt of our said Lord the King and of the Laws of this Kingdom to the evil example of all others in the like case offending and against the Peace of our said Lord the King his Crown Dignity c. Whereupon the said Attorney-General of our said Lord the King on behalf of our said Lord the King prays the Advice of the Court here in the premises and due Process of Law to be made out against the aforesaid William Archbishop of Canterbury William Bishop of St. Asaph Francis Bishop of Ely Iohn Bishop of Chichester Thomas Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Bishop of Peterburgh and Ionathan Bishop of Bristol in this behalf to answer our said Lord the King in and concerning the premises c. T. Powys W. Williams To this Information the Defendents have pleaded Not Guilty and for their Trial have put themselves upon their Country and his Majesty's Attorney-General likewise which Country you are Your Charge is to enquire whether the Defendents or any of them are guilty of the matter contained in this Information that hath been read unto you or Not Guilty If you find them or any of them Guilty you are to say so and if you find them or any of them Not Guilty you are to say so and hear your Evidence Cryer make Proclamation Cryer O yes If any one will give Evidence on behalf of our Sovereign Lord the King against the Defendents of the matters whereof they are impeached let them come forth and they shall be heard Mr. Wright May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury this is an Information exhibited by his Majesty's Attorney-General against the most Reverend my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and Six other Honourable and Noble Bishops in the Information mentioned And the Information sets forth That the King out of his Clemency and benign intention towards his Subjects of this Kingdom did put forth his Royal Declaration bearing date the fourth day of April in the third year of his Reign entituled His Majesty's Gracious Declaration to all his Loving Subjects for Liberty of Conscience and that afterwards the twenty-seventh of April in the fourth year of his Reign he published another Declaration both which have been read to you and for the further Manifestation and Notification of his Grace in the said Declaration bearing date the twenty-seventh of April last his Majesty did order That the said Declaration should be read on the twentieth and twenty-seventh of the same month in the Cities of London and Westminster and ten miles about and on the third and tenth of Iune throughout the whole Kingdom and that the Right Reverend the Bishops should send the said Declaration to be distributed throughout their respective Diocesses to be read accordingly But that the said Archbishop and Bishops the eighteenth of May in the said fourth year of his said Majesty's Reign having conspired and consulted among themselves to diminish the King's Power and Prerogative did falsly unlawfully maliciously and scandalously make compose and write a false scandalous malicious and seditious Libel under pretence of a Petition which Libel they did publish in the presence of the said King the Contents of which Libel you have likewise heard read To this they have pleaded Not Guilty You Gentlemen are Judges of the Fact if we prove this Fact you are to find them Guilty Mr. At. Gen. May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury your have heard this Information read by the Clerk and it has been likewise opened to you at the Barr but before we go to our Evidence perhaps it may not be amiss for us that are of Council for the King now in the beginning of this Cause to settle the Question right before you as well to tell you what my Lords the Bishops are not prosecuted for as what they are First I am to tell you and I believe you cannot your selves but observe that my Lords are not prosecuted as Bishops not much less are they Prosecuted for any point or matter of Religion but they are Prosecuted as Subjects of this Kingdom and only for a temporal Crime as those that have injured and affronted the King to his very Face for it is 〈◊〉 to be done in his own Presence In the next place they are not Prosecuted for any Noâ—…easance or not doing or omitting to do any thing but as they are Actors for ceâ—…ring of his Majesty and his Government and for giving their Opinion in Matters wholly relating to Law and Government and I cannot omit here to take notice that there is not any one thing which the Law is more iealous of or does more carefully provide for the prevention and punishment of than all accusations and arraâ—…ents of the Government no Man is allowed to
the Copy that was printed is the true Copy of the Declaration Mr. Att. Gen. He says he had it from Mr. Hills Mr. Finch Pray Mr. Hills what did you examin that Copy by which you gave to Mr. Williams Hills I had the Copy from Mr. Bridgeman Mr. Finch Did you examin it with the Original under the Great Seal Hills I did not examin it I had it from Mr. Bridgeman Mr. Finch What was it under Seal Mr. Bridgeman It was the Original signed by the King. Mr. Finch But I ask you was it under Seal Mr. Bridgeman Not under the Great Seal it was not it was the very Declaration the King signed Sir Rob. Sawyer But it ought to be compar'd with the Original or it is no good proof that it is the same Mr. Sol. Gen. Sir Robert Sawyer you understand Collation better sure you should be asham'd of such a weak Objection as this Williams We never bring our Proof to the Great Seal Sir Rob. Sawyer But if you will have it Proof at Law you must have it compared with the Original Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you think there is any great stress to be laid upon that we only say it was printed Sir Rob. Sawyer But you have made it part of your Information and therefore you must prove it L. C. Iust. I think there 's proof enough of that there need no such nicety Mr. Pollixfen Well my Lord we must submit let them go on we won't stand upon this Mr. Att. Gen. Then pray let me go on Where had you that Paper Sir Iohn Nicholas Sir Iohn Nicholas I had this Paper from the King's Hand L. C. Iust. Put it in Mr. Sol. Gen. Who had you it from do you say Sir I. Nich. From the King. Mr. Sol. Gen. About what time had you it from the King Sir Sir I. Nich. I had it twice from the King. Mr. Sol. Gen. When was the first time Sir Sir I. Nich. The first time was in Council the 8th of this month Mr. Sol. Gen. What became of it afterwards Sir I. Nich. The King had it from me the 12th and the 13th I had it from the King again Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray deliver it this way into the Court We will now go on and prove the Bishops hands to it This is the Paper upon which we bring this Information Gentlemen it is all the Hand-writing of my Lord Archbishop and signed by Him and the rest of the Bishops Mr. Att. Gen. I suppose my Lords the Bishops will not put us to prove it they will own their Hands L. C. Iust. Yes Mr. Attorney their Council will put you to prove it I perceive your best way is to ask nothing of them Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we will desire nothing of them we will go on to our Proofs Call Sir Thomas Exton Sir Richard Raynes Mr. Brooks Mr. Recorder and Mr. William Middleton Sir Thomas Exton appeared and was sworn L. C. Iust. What do you ask Sir Thomas Exton Mr. Att. Gen. Pray convey that Paper to Sir Thomas Exton Mr. Sol. Gen. Shew that Paper to Sir Thomas Exton Sir Thomas I would ask you one question Do you know the Hand-writing of my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Sir Thomas Exton I 'll give your Lordship what account I can Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray Sir answer my question Do you know his Hand-writing Sir Tho. Exton I never saw him write five times in my life Mr. Sol. Gen. But I ask you upon your Oath do you believe that to be his Hand-writing Sir Tho. Exton I do believe this may be of his Hand-writing Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you believe all the Body of it to be of his Hand-writing or only part of it Sir Tho. Exton I must believe it to be so for I have seen some of his Hand-writing and this is very like it Mr. Sol. Gen. What say you to the Name do you believe it to be his Hand-writing Sir Tho. Exton Yes I do Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you know any of the rest of the Names that are upon that Paper Sir Tho. Exton No I do not L. C. Iust. Do you for the Defendants ask Sir Tho. Exton any Question Sir Rob. Sawyer No my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Then call Sir Richard Raynes Sir Tho. Exton My Lord Sir Richard Raynes has been sick this month and has not been at the Commons Mr. Sol. Gen. We have no need of him Call Mr. Brooks Mr. Brooks sworn Mr. Att. Gen. Pray shew Mr. Brooks that Paper Mr. Sol. Gen. Mr. Brooks I ask you this Question Do you know my Lord Archbishop's Hand-writing Mr. Brooks Yes my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Pray look upon that Paper do you take that to be my Lord Archbishop's Hand Mr. Brooks Yes my Lord I do believe it to be my Lord Archbishop's Hand Mr. Att. Gen. What say you to the whole Body of the Paper Mr. Brooks I do believe it to be his Hand Mr. Att. Gen. What do you say to his Name there Mr. Brooks I do believe this Name is his Hand-writing Mr. Sol. Gen. Call Mr. William Middleton Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mr. Brooks don't go away but look upon the Names of the Bishop of St. Asaph and my Lord of Ely. Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you know my Lord Bishop of St. Asaph's Hand-writing Mr. Brooks I have seen my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of St. Asaph's Hand-writing and I do believe this is his hand Mr. Sol. Gen. Look you upon the Name of my Lord of Ely do you know his Hand-writing Mr. Brooks My Lord I am not so well acquainted with my Lord of Ely's Writing Mr. Sol. Gen. But have you seen his Writing Mr. Brooks Yes I have Mr. Sol. Gen. Is that his Writing do you think Mr. Brooks It is like it Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you believe it to be his Hand Mr. Brooks Truly I do believe it Sir Geo. Treby Did you ever see him write Mr. Brooks No Sir. Mr. Sol. Gen. But he has seen his Writing Sir Geo. Treby How do you know that it was his Hand-writing that you saw Mr. Brooks Because he own'd it L. C. Iust. How do you know it do you say Mr. Brooks I know it I say because I have seen a Letter that he writ to another person which he afterwards own'd L. C. Iust. What did he own Mr. Brooks Mr. Brooks That he wrote a Letter to another person which I saw Sir Geo. Treby To whom Sir Sir Rob. Sawyer Have you the Letter here Sir Mr. Brooks No Sir the Letter was writ to my Lord Bishop of Oxford Sir Geo. Treby Can you tell what was in that Letter Mr. Att. Gen. What is that to this Question You ask him how he knows his Hand-writing and says he I did not see him write but I have seen a Letter of his to the Lord Bishop of Oxford L. C. Iust. And he does say my Lord of Ely own'd it to be his Hand that is there Mr. Sol. Gen. No my Lord that 's a
remember whether or no they were asked if that was the Petition that they delivered to the King Mr. Bridgm. My Lord I have answered that question as directly as I can I do not positively remember that that was the question Lord Ch. Iust. Mr. Solicitor General you must be satisfied when proper questions are fairly answered and therefore pray be quiet Mr. Att. Gen. However we pray we may ask the rest of the Clerks of the Counsel it may be they may remember more Sir Iohn Nicholas you were at the Council-Table that day my Lords the Bishops were examined about this Paper Sir Iohn Nicholas Yes Sir I was Mr. Att. Gen. Pray did you observe that the King produced the Petition Sir Iohn Nicholas No indeed I did not see it Mr. Att. Gen. Did you observe any thing that passed there in discourse Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you observe any questions that were asked the Bishops either by the King or by my Lord Chancellor Sir Iohn Nich. I think my Lord Chancellor did ask them if that was their hands to the Petition and they owned it Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you remember whether they owned that they delivered that Paper to the King Lord Ch. Iust. I 'le ask you Sir Iohn Nicholas did my Lord Chancellor ask them this question is this the Petition you delivered to the King Sir Iohn Nicholas I do not remember that Then there was a great shout Mr. Sol. Gen. Here 's wonderfull great rejoycing that truth cannot prevail Mr. S. Pemberton No Mr. Solicitor truth does prevail Mr. Sol. Gen. You are all very glad that truth is stifled Mr. Serjeant Mr. S. Trinder Pray Sir Iohn Nicholas let me ask you one question was there any discourse about delivering that Petition to the King Sir Iohn Nicholas Indeed I do not remember it Mr. Sol. Gen. There is Mr. Pepy's wee 'll examine him Mr. Pepy's sworn Lord Ch. Iust. Come I 'le ask the questions were you bye at the Council-Board when my Lords the Bishops were committed Mr. Pepy's Yes I was Lord Ch. Iust. What were the questions that were asked either by the King or by my Lord Chancellor Mr. Pepy's My Lord I would remember as well as I could the very words and the very words of the question were I think My Lords do you own this Paper I do not remember any thing was spoken about the delivering but I believe it was understood by every body at the Table that that was the Paper that they had delivered Lord Ch. Iust. Well have you done now But to satisfie you I 'le ask this question was this question asked my Lords was this the Paper you delivered to the King Mr. Pepy's No my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir do you remember whether the King himself asked the question Mr. Pepy's You mean I suppose Mr. Attorney that these were the words or something that imported their delivering it to the King. Mr. Att. Gen. Yes Sir. Mr. Pepy's Truly I remember nothing of that Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you observe any discourse concerning their delivery of it to the King. Mr. Pepy's Indeed Mr. Solicitor I do not Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Musgrave Mr. Musgrave Sworn Lord Ch. Iust. You hear the question Sir what say you to it Mr. Musg My Lord I will give as short an acount of it as I can the first time after his Majesty had produced the Petition and it was read at the Board his Grace my Lord Arch Bishop of Canterbury and the other six Reverend Lords Bishops were called in and it were asked of them if they owned that or if it was their hands my Lord Archbishop in the name of the rest did decline answering upon the account that they were there as Criminals and were not obliged to say any thing to their own prejudice or that might hurt them hereafter but if his Majesty would command them and if he would promise that no advantage should be made of whatsoever they confessed then they would answer the question his Majesty made no answer to that but only said he would do nothing but what was according to Law whereupon the Bishops were ordered to withdraw and being called in a second time the Petition was shewn to them and they were asked if they did own it or if it was their hands and I think my Lord Archbishop did say then we will rely upon your Majesty or some such general thing was said and then they did all own it that it was their hands I cannot say the Petition was read to them Mr. Iust. Pow. Mr. Blathwait as I remember it was the third time Mr. Musgrave It was the second time to the best of my remembrance Lord Ch. Iust. Pray Sir was there any question to this purpose is this the Paper you delivered to the King Mr. Musg I do not remember that ever any such direct question was asked Mr. Iust. Allybone But as my Brother Pemberton did very well before distinguish there is a great deal of difference between the owning the subscription of a Paper and between the owning of that Paper Mr. Pepy's did say that they did own the Paper and upon my word that will look very like a Publication Mr. Musg I remember my Lord there was at the same time a question asked because several Copies had gone about the Town whether they had published it and my Lord Archbishop did say he had been so cautious that he had not admitted his own Secretary but writ it all himself and the rest of the Bishops did say they did not publish it nor never gave any Copies of it Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I confess now it is to be left to the Jury upon this point whether there not being a positive Witness that was by when the thing was done yet upon this Evidence the Jury can't find any otherwise than that the thing was done truly I think we must leave it as a strong case for the King I could have wished indeed for the satisfaction of every body that the proof would have come up to that but we must make it as strong for the King upon the Evidence given as it will bear now my Lord take all this whole matter together here is a Paper composed framed and written by seven learned Men and this must be written by such persons sure for some purpose it is directed as a Petition to the King and this Petition did come to the hands of the King for the King produces it in Counsel and my Lord Archbishop and the rest of the Bishops owned their hands to it then the question is my Lord whether or no there be any room for any body living to doubt in this case that this was not delivered by my Lords the Bishops to the King though it be not a conclusive Evidence of a positive Fact yet unless they shew something on the other side that may give way for a supposition to the contrary that it came out of their hands by surprize or
it also provided and enacted That if any person shall hereafter be Committed Restrained of his Liberty or suffer Imprisonment by the Order and Decree of any such Court of Star-Chamber or other Court aforesaid now or at any time hereafter having or pretending to have the same or like Iurisdiction Power or Authority to commit or imprison as aforesaid or by the Command or Warrant of the King's Majesty his heirs or Successors in their own Persons or by the Command or Warrant of the Council-Board or of any of the Lords or others of his Majesties Privy-Council that in every such Case every person so Committed Restrained of his Liberty or suffering Imprisonment upon demand Mr. Soll. Gen. That is all Your Lordship sees these several Distiâ—…ctions of the Style of Commitment Mr. Att. Gen. Now pray favour us a little My Lord I think these Gentlemen will not deny but that the Lords of the Council can commit I must confess they ask that which was pretty reasonable if the Case was as they would make it They would have my Lords the Bishops discharged because there is not a Return of a good Commitment and that stands upon this presumption that what is here said to be done by all these Lords at the end of whose Names this is added Lords of the Privy-Council was done by them out of Council which I suppose your Lordship will not presume but will take it that they did this as Lords of the Council in Council And no man can say but the Lords in Council can commit Mr. Soll. Gen. You may as well presume upon a Warrant made by my Lord Chief Iustice because it is not said where he did it and therefore he did it in Scotland Mr. Att. Gen. I say again unless your Lordship will presume that which is not to be presumed this must needs be a very good Return Mr. I. Allyb. Truly as Mr. Sollicitor says you may as well desire us to presume that my Lord Chief Iustice would commit a man in Ireland or Scotland I can see no imaginable difference Mr. Finch My Lord That which we pray is not that your Lordship would presume but that you would not presume but take the Return as 't is before you and then see whether it can be thought to be a Commitment by the Lords in Council Mr. S. Pemberton Pray my Lord spare us a little in this matter Here has been the Clause of a Statute read to you from whence Mr. Sollicitor would conclude that all Commitments by several sorts of persons there named are legal or else the Enumeration of the several sorts of Commitments signifies nothing to this purpose But I pray your Lordship would consider this that the very scope and end of that Act of Parliament is to relieve against illegal Commitments and Oppressions then the several Commitments therein named can never all be called legal so that that signifies nothing to our purpose My Lord they tell us we stand upon Presumption no we do not so we say your Lordship ought not to presume the One or the other but to judge upon what is before you but here is nothing before you but this Return of a Commitment of these Noble Persons my Lord the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and the rest of the Bishops which is said to be by these particular Lords Now if your Lordship will please to give us time to look into it for this is an Exception we take at the Bar upon hearing the Return read we would shew the constant way has been quite otherwise than this Return makes it therefore we desire leave to satisfie your Lordship concerning the usual Form of Precedents and thereby it will appear that it ought to have been that they were committed by Order of the Privy Council and then he should have set forth the Warrant it self which would have shewn the Names of the Privy Councellors and he needed not to have put their Names in the Return as the particular Persons that committed them but now my Lord this does not appear to be an Order made in Council as it ought to be and the Return is that which is before you and you are to judge only upon what is before you L. C. Iust. So we do Mr. Iustice Allybone Pray Sir Robert Sawyer would the Saying of a Governour of the Tower in his Return to a Writ of Habeas Corpus alter the Nature of the Commitment Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord We are in your Lordships Judgment Mr. Iust. Allybone I say Brother Pemberton would any collateral Saying of the Lieutenant of the Tower alter the Nature of the thing his Return in this Case is onely an Inducement to the Warrant of Commitment and his Saying one way or t'other would neither vitiate nor mend the Commitment Mr Soll. Gen. Your Lordship cannot take notice of the Commitment but from the Warrant Mr. Pollexfen The Return is the Fact upon which you are to judge Mr. Iust. Powel Certainly we must judge of the Record and nothing else and the Return is the Record now being filed L. Ch. Iust. The Return is as certain I think as can be Mr. Soll. Gen. By the Return it appears the Bishops were committed by the Warrant of such and such Lords of the Council and that which is before you now is whether you will not intend it to be done by them in Council Mr. Iust. Powel We can intend nothing but must take the Return as ' t is Lord Chief Iust. The Warrant is good enough I think truly and so is the Return Mr. Pollexfen I think in all the Habeas Corpus's that have been since the King's return of Persons committed by the Council the Returns have been quite otherwise than this Return is We do all pretty well agree for ought I can perceive in these two things We do not deny but the Council Board has Power to commit they on the other side do not affirm that the Lords of the Council can commit out of Council Mr. Att. Gen. Yes they may as Justices of the Peace Mr. Pollexfen That is not pretended to be so here L. Ch. Iust. No no that is not the Case Mr. Pollexfen Then my Lord with submission I will compare it to any thing else of this nature I deny not but that the Council may commit but the Question is whether this Return of their Commitment be right Suppose there should be a Return to a Habeas Corpus that such a one was committed by Sir Robert Wright and three others by Name Justices of this Court for a Contempt without saying that it was done in Court this would be an ill Return although they had power in Court to commit for a Contempt yet it must appear that it was done in Court or it cannot be a good Return If I had thought or foreseen that such a Return would have been made I could easily have made out our Objection but we could not foretell what they would return and therefore
in Parliament and particularly in the Years 1662 and 1672. and the beginning of Your Majesties Reign and is a matter of so great Moment and Consequence to the whole Nation both in Church and State that your Petitioners cannot in Prudence Honour or Conscience so far make themselves Parties to it as the Distribution of it all over the Nation and the solemn Publication of it once and again even in God's House and in the time of his Divine Service must amount to in common and reasonable Construction In contemptum dicti Domini Regis nunc Legum hujus regni Angliae manifestum in malum exemplum omnium aliorum in tali casu delinquentium ac contra pacem dicti Domini Regis nunc Coronam Dignitatem suas c. Unde idem Atornatus dicti Domini Regis nunc generalis pro eodem Domino Rege petit advisamentum Curiae hic in praemissis debitum legis processum versus praefatos Willielmum Archiepiscopum Cantuariensem Willielmum Episcopum Asaphensem Franciscum Episcopum Eliensem Iohannem Episcopum Cicestrensem Thomam Episcopum Bathonensem Wellensem Thomam Episcopum Petriburgensem Ionathanum Episcopum Britollensem fieri ad respondendum dicto Domino Regi de in praemissis c. T. Powys W. Williams Mr. Attor Gen. My Lord we humbly pray that according to the Rules of the Court in such Cases my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and my Lords the Bishops may Plead to the Information Mr. Solli Gen. My Lords the Bishops are here in Custody in Court upon the highest Commitment that can be in this Kingdom to wit That of the King in Council and we pray that according to the Course of the Court they may Plead to the Information presently L. Ch. Just. What does his Grace and my Lords the Bishops say to it Mr. Serj. Pemberton Will your Lordship give us leave who are of Council for his Grace my Lord of Canterbury and the rest of my Lords the Bishops to speak a word in this Matter L. Ch. Just. Ay Brother go on Mr. Serj. Pemberton That which we have to desire of your Lordship and the Court is this We have now heard this Information Read and 't is plain we could know nothing of this before the Warrant of Commitment being only in general for a Libel and this being a Case of the greatest Consequence peradventure that ever was in Westminster Hall that I think I may boldly say it is a Case of the greatest Consequence that ever was in this Court and it being a matter of this Nature that these Great and Noble Persons my Lords the Bishops are here taxed with that is for making a Seditious Libel contained in such a Petition as though it was a Libel to Petition the King We do beg this of your Lordship that it being of this great Importance to the end we may come prepared to say what we have against it We may have an Imparlance till the next Term. Mr. Finch Pray my Lord favour me with a Word on the same side for my Lords the Bishops You Lordship sees now how necessary the trouble we gave you before in making our Objections against the reading of the Information was and what the drift and aim of the Kings Councel was in the desiring the Information to be read first for now it is read What is it that they desire of your Lordships They desire that my Lord Arch Bishop and my Lords the Bishops being in Custody and brought here in Custody they may be now so Charged with this Information as to Plead presently This my Lord we oppose and with humble Submission we ought to have time to Imparle and a Copy of the Information that we may consider what we have to Plead to it for however we come here into Court whether legally or not legally yet ought we in the one and in the other Case to have time to Consider of our Defence And my Lord till of later time this Practice which the Kings Counsel now calls the Course of the Court was never used nor was any Man required to Plead immediately and my Lord if the Practice of the Court has not been anciently so as I do believe they will scarce shew it to be Ancienter than a few years last past then with humble submission though the Course of the Court have been so for some little time past yet it is not in the power of the Couâ—… as we humbly Conceive to make a Course in prejudice of all the Priviledges that the Kings Subjects are by the Antient Rules of Law intituled to they cannot make a new Law in prejudice of any Right or Priviledge which the Subject hath and call it the Course of the Court Now that this which we desire for my Lords the Bishops is the Right and Priviledge of the Subject is most manifest for there might be many Defences that a Man may have to make to an Accusation of this Nature which it is impossible for him to know at the first hearing of an Information read and yet which would be necessary for him to make use of or at least it would be impossible for him to make use of in such a manner as the Law doth allow of and require It may be the Pleas which he has to Plead may be such as that he has not time to put into form there may be Matters upon the hearing the Information read that it would be necessary for him to give answer to which he knew not of before and therefore may neither have Materials ready nor be capable of putting them if he had them ready into such Form as the Law requires They tell you on the other side that if a Man be brought into Court by Legal Process he may be Charged with any Information whatsoever that they are not tied to the Fact alleadged in the Commitment but finding the Party under a Legal Imprisonment they can exhibit an Information against him for any other Offence Then my Lord would I fain know which way any Man alive can be prepared to make his Just and Legal Defence for he knows not his Accusation for tho' he think it may be for that for which he was Committed yet it may prove otherwise and then he can be no way provided with Materials for his Defence but he must lose all Advantages which the Law gives him for his Defence My Lord if this be the course of latter times yet you will not take that to be such a Law as is binding to all future times and we are sure the King's Counsel cannot shew that this was the Ancient Practice for that was quite otherwise L. C. Iust. Mr. Finch you were not here I suppose when this Question came in debate in this Court lately in the Case of a very great Person 't was urged very earnestly and very learnedly by one that stands by you we upon that Debate asked Sir Samuel Astry what the Course of the
some slight Answer but then here are these two persons Mr. Harcourt and Mr. Sillyard and the one has been a Clerk these sixteen or seventeen years and the other has known the Office thirty years though there were not heretofore so many Informations of this Nature and Kind as now of late but still they say that a person that comes in upon a Commitment or a Recognizance shall never have any Imparlance Mr. Sol. Gen. Can they give any one Instance that has any the least shaddow to the contrary Mr. Pollixfen My Lord if we had time we hope we should be able to satisfie you in this Matter Mr. Sol. Gen. You have had time enough to prepare your selves for this Question if you had thought you could do any good in it L. C. I. Would the Course of the Court be otherwise to Morrow then it is to Day we have taken all the Care we can to be satisfied in this Matter and we will take care that the Lords the Bishops shall have all Justice done them nay they shall have all the Favour by my consent that can be shewn them without doing wrong to my Master the King but truly I cannot depart from the Course of the Court in this Matter if the King's Council press it Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we must pray your Judgment in it and your Direction that they may plead L. C. I. Truly I think they must Plead to the Information Mr. Att. Gen. Sir Samuel Astry pray ask My Lords whether they be Guilty or Not Guilty Then his Grace the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury stood up and offered a Paper to the Court. Archbish. of Cant. My Lord I tender here a short Plea a very short one on behalf of my self and my Brethren the other Defendants and I humbly desire the Court will admit of this Plea. L. C. I. If it please your Grace it should have been in Parchment Mr. Sol. Gen. What is that my Lord offers to the Court L. C. I. We will see what it is presently Mr. Sollicitor Bish. of Peter I pray My Lord that the Plea may be Read. M. Sol. Gen. But not received Mr. Att. Gen. No we desire to know what it is first Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Attorney if they will Plead the Court sure is obliged to receive it L. C. I. If it is a Plea your Grace will stand by it L. Archbish. of Cant. We will all stand by it my Lord it is subscribed by our Council and we pray it may be admitted by the Court. Mr. S. Pemb. I hope the Court will not deny to receive a special Plea if we offer one L. C. I. Brother let us hear what it is Mr. Sol. Gen. Read it if you please but not receive it Clerk Reads the Plea which in English is thus The BISHOPS PLEA AND the aforesaid William Archbishop of Canterbury William Bishop of St. Asaph Francis Bishop of Ely John Bishop of Chicester Thomas Bishop of Bath and Wells Thomas Bishop of Peterburgh and Jonathan Bishop of Bristol being present here in Court in their own Persons pray Oyer of the Information aforesaid and it is Read to them which being Read and heard by them the said Archbishop and Bishops The said Archbishop and Bishops say that they are Peers of this Kingdom of England and Lords of Parliament and each of them is one of the Peers of this Kingdom of England and a Lord of the Parliament and that they being as before is manifest Peers of this Kingdom of England and Lords of Parliament ought not to be compelled to answer instantly for the Misdemeanour aforesaid mentioned in the said Information exhibited here against them in this Court but they ought to be required to appear by due Process in Law issuing out of this Court hâ—…e upon the Information aforesaid and upon their Appearance to have a Copy of the said Information exhibited against them and reasonable time to imparl thereupon and to advise with Council Learned in the Law concerning their Defence in that behalf before they be compelled to answer the said Information Whereupon for that the said Archbishop and Bishops were Imprisoned and by Writ of our Lord the King of Habeas Corpus directed to the Lieutenant of the Tower of London are now brought here in Custody without any Process upon the Information aforesaid issued against them and without having any Copy of the said Information or any time given them to imparl or be advised They pray Judgment and the Priviledge of Peers of this Kingdom in this Case to be allowed them and that They the said Archbishop and Bishops may not be compelled instantly to answer the Information aforesaid c. Rob. Sawyer Hen. Finch Hen. Pollixfen Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord with your Lordship's favour this in an ordinary Person 's Case would perhaps be thought not fair dealing or that which it being in the Case of these Reverend Prelates I shall not now name to make all this Debate and Stir in a Point of this nature to take the Judgment of the Court after three or four hours arguing and when the Opinion of the Court has been delivered then to put in a Plea to the Jurisdiction of the Court Sir Rob. Sawyer It is no such Plea. Mr. Att. Gen. It is so in effect but certainly it is such an Irregularity and such an unfair way of Proceeding as would not be endured in an ordinary Case and I hope you will give so little countenance to it as to reject it and make them Plead according to the usual course and way of proceedings certainly a Plea of this nature after so long an Argument would be reckoned nothing but a trick Mr. Serj. Pemb. We hope the Court and you are not of one mind Mr. Attorney in this matter we desire the Court to receive the Plea. Mr. Att. Gen. With submission the Court is not bound to receive Pleas that are put in purely for delay as this is for the Judgment of the Court has been already given in the very matter of this Plea and for rejecting a Plea it is done every day if a Man puts in a mere trifling dilatory Plea the Court may reject it Does this Plea contain any thing in it but what has been argued and debated pro con and setled by the Court already If they will put in any Plea in chief they may but such a Plea as this I hope shall not have so much countenance as to be receiv'd by the Court. Mr. Pollixfen Do you Demur to it if you please Mr. Attorney we will joyn in Demurrer with you Mr. Att. Gen. No there will be no need of that Mr. Sol. Gen. Surely the Court will never give so much Countenance to it as to receive it Mr. Finch If you will please either to Reply or Demur Mr. Sollicitor we are here to maintain the Plea. Mr. Soll. Gen. If you were here you would say the same thing that we do My Lord this Plea is That
your Lordship to reject this Plea. Sir Rob. Sawyer My Lord we are in your Judgment whether you will receive this Plea or not L. C. I. You shall have my Judgment presently but my Brothers are to speak first Mr. I. Allybone Mr. Pollixfen makes it a Question whether this Plea may be reiected or not or whether it ought to be received and the Court give their Judgment upon it Mr. Iust. Powell Truly I do not know whether the Court can reject this as 〈◊〉 frivolous Plea. L. C. I. Surely we may and frequently do Mr. Att. Gen. You do it every day it 's a frequent Motion if a frivolous Plea be put in before it be entred upon Record as a Plea the Court may refuse it if they see cause Mr. I. Allybone Truly if it may be this appears to me a very frivolous Plea. Mr. Iust. Powell I do not know how the Court can reject any Plea that the party will put in if he will stand by it as they say they will here and I cannot think this a frivolous Plea it concerning the priviledge of Peers and Lords of Parliament Mr. I. Allybone Brother Powell I would be as tender of the Priviledges of Parliament and speak with as much respect of the Priviledges of the Peerage as any body else but for the matter of the Plea truly it appears to me that the Peers are named in it only for fashion safe and it is frivolous Mr. Iust. Powell The matter of the Plea except only their being said to be Peers and Lords of Parliament was spoke to before but it was only obiter and by way of motion but now it may come before us for our Judicial Determination Mr. I. Allybone Pray let the Plea be read again Which was done Mr. Iust. Allybone This Plea is no more but that which has been denied already upon solemn debate and if it be in the power of the Court to reject any Plea surely we ought to reject this Indeed I know not what power we have to reject a Plea but if we have power this ought to be rejected Mr. Iust. Powell I declare my Opinion I am for receiving the Plea and considering of it Mr. Iust. Holloway I think as this case is this Plea ought not to be received but rejected because 't is no more than what has been denied already I am not ashamed to say That I should be very glad and ready to do all things that are consistent with my Duty to shew respects to my Lords the Bishops some of whom are my particular Friends but I am upon my Oath and must go according to the course of Law. L. C. I. We have asked and informed our selves from the Bar whether we may or can reject a Plea and truly what they have said hath satisfied me that we may if the Plea be frivolous and this being a Plea that contains no more than what has been over-ruled already after hearing what could be said on both sides I think the Court is not bound to receive the Plea but may reject it and my Lords the Bishops must plead over Mr. Att. Gen. We pray they may plead in chief Clerk. My Lord Archbishop of Canterbury is your Grace guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty A. B. C. Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of St. Asaph is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of St. Asaph Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of Ely is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of Ely. Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of Chichester is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of Chichest Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of Bath Wells Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of Peterborough is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of Peterborough Not guilty Clerk. My Lord Bishop of Bristol is your Lordship guilty of the matter charged upon you in this Information or not guilty Bish. of Bristol Not guilty Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I pray the Clerk may joyn Issue on the behalf of the King that so we may come to Tryal and we would have these Gentlemen take notice that we intend to try this Cause on this day fortnight and we pray liberty of the Court that we may try it at Bar. L. C. I. Are you not too hasty in that Motion Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we should indeed make it the Motion of another day but we do now tell them this exabundanti because my Lords the Bishops are now here and will I suppose take notice that we do intend to move it another day Mr. Soll. Gen. We now give them notice that we intend to move Sir Rob. Sawyer For that you need not trouble your selves we are very desirous it should be tryed at Bar and that as soon as you please Mr. Att. Gen. Well then you take notice it will be tryed this day fortnight L. C. I. Well what shall we do with my Lords the Bishops Mr. Att. Gen. They are baylable no question of it my Lord if they please L. C. I. Then my Lords we are ready to bail you if you please Sir Rob. Sawyer We desire your Lordship would be pleased to take their own Recognizance L. C. I. What say you Mr. Attorney I think that may do well enough Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord with all my heart we will do it L. C. I. In what Penalty shall we take it Mr. Att. Gen. A 1000. I think my Lord his Grace and 500 l. apiece the rest Sir Rob. Sawyer What necessity is there for so much Mr. Att. Gen. Look you Sir Robert Sawyer to shew you that we do insist upon nothing that shall look like hardship what my Lords have been pleased to offer concerning taking their own Recognizance we agree to and what sums the Court pleases Mr. Soll. Gen. It is all one to us we leave it wholly to the Court. Sir Rob. Sawyer Only I have one thing more to beg of your Lordship on the behalf of my Lords the Bishops that you will please to order that in the Return of the Jury there may be forty eight returned Mr. Att. Gen. I tell you what we will do Sir Samuel Astry shall have the Freeholders Book if you please and shall return twenty four Sir Rob. Sawyer Eight and forty has been always the course when the Jury is returned by Sir Samuel Astry Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord I pray the Officer may return the Jury according as is usual in Cases of this nature Mr. Att. Gen. You do admit of a Tryal at Bar Gentlemen Sir Rob. Sawyer Yes and try it when you will. L. C. I. They
that you received as you say were written by my Lord himself or by his Secretary Mr. Clavell I have received Letters from him and his Secretary too Sir G. Treby But were you present with him when he writ any Letters with his own Hand Mr. Sol. Gen. You do not mean a Letter to your self sure Sir George Sir G. Treby No Sir I say any Letters Mr. Clavell I have been present with my Lord often but I cannot say I have seen my Lord write L. C. I. He has here told you he has had several Letters of my Lords own Hand and from his Secretary too Mr. I. Powell He has said it but you see he says he never saw him write Mr. Sol. Gen. We have given Evidence against my Lord Arch-Bishop Lord Bishop of Ely St. Asaph Peterborough and Bristol Mr. I. Powell Certainly Mr. Sollicitor you mistake But go on Mr. Sol. Gen. We have given Evidence I say against them Sir but whether it be sufficient Evidence we shall Argue by and by Call Mr. Hooper and Mr. Chetwood again Mr. Chetwood appeared Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you know the Hand-writing of my Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells Mr. Chetwood I have seen it Twice or Thrice but it is a considerable time since I did see it Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you believe that is his Hand-writing Mr. Chetwood I never saw him writâ—… his Name in my Life Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray look upon the Name and tell us what you believe of it Mr. Chetwood I believe it may but I do not certainly know it to be his Hand I rather believe it is my Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells his Hand than I believe that other to be my Lord of Peterboroughs Sir G. Treby Do you believe that to be my Lord of Peterborough's Hand or no Mr. Chetwood I say I rather believe that this is the Bishop of Bath and Wells his Writing than that which is above it or below it to be their Writing but truly I do not distinctly know my Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells his Hand Mr. Sol. Gen. Call Mr. Hooper L. C. I. You are very lame in this matter Mr. Sol. Gen. The Witnesses are unwilling and we must find out the Truth as well as we can Mr. Hooper did not appear Mr. Sol. Gen. Call Mr. Iames and Mr. Powell Mr. James appeared and was Sworn Mr Sol. Gen. Do you know my Lord Bishop of Bristol's Writing Mr. Iames Mr. Iames. Yes I believe I do but I am not so certain because my Lord Writes several times several Hands Mr. Sol. Gen. Shew him the Paper Is that my Lord of Bristol's Hand Mr. Iames. I cannot say it is or no. Mr. Sol. Gen. What do you believe Mr. Iames. It looks like his Hand and that 's all I can say Mr. Sol. Gen. But pray hearken and Answer to what I ask you you are prepared for one Question it may be and I shall ask you another upon your Oath Do you believe it to be the Hand-writing of my Lord of Bristol Mr. Iames. Upon my Oath I can only say it looks like it that 's all L. C. I. Did you ever see him Write Mr. Iames. Yes my Lord I have seen his Hand-writing several times and it is like his Hand-writing that is all I can say Mr. Sol. Gen. Sir remember you are upon your Oath and Answer my Question Mr. Iames. Upon my Oath I know no more than that Sir William Williams Mr. Sol. Gen. I ask you Sir whether you believe it to be his Hand or not Mr. Iames. My Lord it looks like his Hand and it may be his Hand Mr. Att. Gen. But you do think and believe one way or other What do you believe Mr. Iames. It may be his Hand for what I know and it may not Mr. Sol. Gen. It may be your Hand Mr. Iames. No Sir it cannot be mine I am sure Mr. Sol. Gen. What do you believe Mr. Iames. I believe it may be his Hand or it may not be his Hand that is all I can say L. C. I. Come Sir you must Answer fairly Do you believe it to be his Hand or do you not Mr. Iames. Yes I do believe it Mr. Att. Gen. You are very hard to believe methinks Mr. Iames. No I am not Mr. Sol. Gen. You do very well now Mr. Iames when you do well we 'll commend you Mr. Att. Gen. Call Mr. Nathaniel Powell Mr. Powell was Sworn Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray Sir let 's know what 's your Name Mr. Powell My Name is Nathaniel Powell Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray do you know the Hand-writing of my Lord Bishop of Chichester Mr. Powell I have not seen the Paper Sir. Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you know his Hand-writing Mr. Powell Yes I believe I do Mr. Sol. Gen. Look upon that Name of his Mr. Powell I did not see my Lord Write that Mr. Sol. Gen. Who says you did no Body asks that of you how you Answer Pray Sir remember your Oath and Answer seriously Do you believe it to be his Writing or no Mr. Powell I believe it is like my Lord's Hand-writing but I did never see him Write it Mr. Sol. Gen. No Body says you did Mr. Powell Therefore I cannot Swear positively it is his Hand Mr. Sol. Gen. We do not ask that neither Mr. Powell I cannot tell whether it be his Hand or no. L. C. I. Sir you must Answer the Question directly and seriously Do you believe it or do you not believe it Mr. Powell I cannot tell what to believe in the Case Mr. Sol. Gen. Then I ask you another Question upon your Oath Do you believe it is not his Hand Mr. Powell I cannot say that neither Mr. Sol. Gen. Once again I ask you upon your Oath Do you believe it to be his Hand I ask you plainly and let Mankind Judge of you Mr. Powell I tell you Sir I cannot tell what to believe Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord if these things be endured there will be an end of all Testimony if Witnesses do not answer fairly to the Questions that are asked them Mr. I. Powell Truly to me for a Man to Swear his Belief in such a matter is an extraordinary thing Mr. Sol. Gen. He is obliged to answer Questions when they are fairely put to him Mr. Pollixfen I think that is a hard Question not to be Answered Mr. Sol. Gen. Make your Exceptions to the Evidence if you please L. C. I. First he says He knows his Hand then he says He has seen him write and then he says He did not see him write this but he shuffles he won't answer whether he believes it or not Mr. Pollixfen The Question is Whether belief in any case be Evidence Mr. Sol. Gen. If they have a mind to a Bill of Exceptions upon that point let them Seal their Bill and we 'll Argue it with them when they will in the mean time we 'll go on and that which we now pray my Lord is That this Paper
spoke Brother Pemberton and I would willingly hear you what you have to say but we must not have vying and revying for then we shall have no end Mr. Serj. Levinz I would offer your Lordship some new matter which has not been touched upon yet why it is not to be Read. L. C. I. What 's that Brother Mr. Serj. Levinz All the proof that has been given whatsoever it amounts to has been only of its being Written but no proof has been given of its being Written in the County of Middlesex where the Information is laid and the matter is Local Mr. Sol. Gen. First Read it and then make your Objection Mr. Recorder My Lord as to the Evidence that has been given I would only put your Lordship in mind of one Case and that was the Case of Sir Samuel Barnardiston and the great Evidence there was the proof of its being his Hand-writing and that being proved was sufficient to Convict him of a Libel for they could not believe Sir Samuel Barnardiston was Guilty of making Libels unless they were proved to be his Hand-writing Sir Robert Sawyer He owned them to be his Hand-writing L. C. I. If you do expect my Opinion in it whether this be good Evidence and whether this Paper be proved or no I am ready to give it Mr. Finch My Lord I desire to be heard before the Opinion of the Court be given Mr. Sol. Gen. If there be not proof enough to induce the Jury to believe this is their Paper yet sure there is enough to Read it Sir Robert Sawyer My Lord we have not been heard to this yet Mr. Sol. Gen. Why is this fit to be suffered L. C. I. Mr. Sol. I am always willing to hear Mr. Finch Mr. Sol. Gen. But I hope your Lordship and the Court are not to be Complemented into an unusual thing Mr. Serj. Pemberton It is not a Complement but Right and Justice Mr. Sol. Gen. Certainly it is Right and Justice that there should be some limits put to Men's speaking that we may know when to have an end Sir Robert Sawyer Mr. Sollicitor does mistake the right my Lord for we desire to be heard to this Point as not having spoke to it yet Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray Sir let me make my Objection to your being heard for I believe you and I have been chid several times for speaking over and over the same thing Sir R. Sawyer This that we now offer iâ—… not to the same Point that we have spoken to already Mr. Sol. Gen. We are now speaking to the Reading of the Paper and you have spoken to it already Sir R. Sawyer If the Court will please to hear us we have that to offer against the Reading of that Paper which has not been offered yet L. C. I. Sir Robert Sawyer I take it it is in the Breast of the Court â—…o heâ—… when they will and as much as they will and whom they will for if Three or Four have been heard of a side to speak what they will the Court may very well depend upon the Learning of those Three or Four that they say what can be said upon the Point and that 's enough but if Six or Seven desire to be heard over and over to the same thing certainly the Court may stop at Three or Four if they will. Sir R. Sawyer This is a new Objection that none of us have been heard to yet Mr. Finch My Lord that which I offer is not contrary to the Rules of Law nor contrary to the Practice of the Court nor was I going any way to invade that Priviledge which Mr. Sollicitor claims of making Objections and not receiving an Answer Mr. Sol. Gen. What a fine Declamation you have now made I never claimed any such right but I oppose your being heard over and over to the same thing Mr. Att. Gen. Pray my Lord let 's come to some Issue in this matter L. C. I. I will hear you but I would not have you introduce it with a reflection upon the King's Council Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord if you impose that upon him you stop his Mouth for some Men cannot speak without reflection L. C. I. On the other side pray Mr. Sollicitor give us leave to hear fairly what they have to say for I perceive he cannot offer to speak but you presently stop his Mouth Mr. Finch My Lord that which I was going to say is another matter than any thing that has been yet offered We say that this Paper ought not to be Read for that they are obliged by Law to prove their Information and consequently having laid a particular place where the thing was done in the Information they ought to prove that this was done in that place The Evidence that they have given is of my Lords the Bishops Writing this Paper and they have laid it to be done in Middlesex and this with submission to your Lordship is local and they must prove it to be Written in Middlesex where they have laid it or else they fail in their proof This is another Objection which as yet hath not been spoken to That if there be a proof of their Hand-writing yet there is no proof where that Hand was Written and therefore they are not yet got so far as to have it Read against my Lords Mr. Att. Gen. For that Point my Lord we say This would have been as properly said after the Paper had been Read when they come to make Objections against our Proof by way of Defence and with submission it had been more proper then than it is now For what are we now doing My Lord we are Proving that such a Paper was Subscribed by my Lords the Bishops and Sir Iohn Nicholas gives you an Account that he had it from his Majesty at the Council and that certainly is in the County of Middlesex and iâ—… will concern you to Prove that it was Written elsewhere Mr. Serj. Pemberton That 's very well Mr. Attorney sure you do not think as you speak Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a Paper Composed and Written by you that Sir Iohn Nicholas says he had from his Majesty how he came by it I suppose you will tell us by and by this is your Hand-writing that I think we have proved sufficiently this is found in the County of Middlesex and you come and tell us that we must Prove that it was Written in the County of Middlesex and it is taken to be Written where it was found unless you Prove the contrary Mr. Serj. Pemberton That 's pretty Doctrine indeed and very new Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord here 's an Objection made too timely we are now upon Reading of this Paper and the Question is Whether it shall be Read or not be Read. Surely we have given Evidence enough to induce the Court to Read it and it is another Question that will come time enough afterwards Where it was Writen L. C. I. Truly I do not think it
was proper for you to stand upon the Place where it was Written as yet Mr. Serj. Levinz When we are upon an Information of a Fact in Middlesex will you hear them give Evidence of a Fact in Yorkshire Mr. Sol. Gen. We are not to be driven by these Gentlemen we are to be directed by the Court. L. C. I. I think truly it is yet too early to make this Objection Mr. Serj. Pemberton Surely my Lord this is our time to oppose the Reading of it as not proved Mr. I. Powell Mr. Sollicitor I think you have not sufficiently proved this Paper to be Subscribed by my Lords the Bishops Mr. Sol. Gen. Not to Read it Sir Mr. I. Powell No not to Read it it is too slender a Proof for such a Case I grant you in Civil Actions a slender proof is sufficient to make out a Man's Hand by a Letter to a Tradesman or a Correspondent or the like but in Criminal Causes such as this if such a proof be allowed where is the safety of your Life or any Man's Life here Mr. Sol. Gen. We tell you a Case where it was allowed and that is Mr. Sidney's Case a Case of Treason and Printed by Authority We tell you nothing but what was done to'ther day L. C. I. I tell you what I say to it I think truly there is proof enough to have it Read and I am not ashamed nor afraid to say it for I know I speak with the Law say what you will of Criminal Cases and the danger of Peoples Lives there were more danger to the Government if such proof were not allowed to be good Mr. I. Powel I think there is no danger to the Government at all in requiring good proof against Offenders L. C. I. Here 's my Lord Archbishop and the Bishop of St. Asaph and my Lord of Ely their Hands are proved it is proved to be my Lord Archbishop's Writing by Mr. Brookes and he proves my Lord of Ely's Hand by Comparison and so my Lord of St. Asaph's Now Brother Pemberton there 's an Answer to your Objection it being proved that it is all my Lord Archbishop's Hand then they come and say We 'll prove the Hands of the others by comparison and for that they bring you Witnesses that say They have received Letters from them and seen their Hand-writing several times and comparing what they have seen with this very Paper says the Witness I do believe it to be his Hand Can there be a greater Evidence or a fuller Mr. Serj. Pemberton Admit it be a full Evidence against my Lord Arch-Bishop What 's that to the rest There 's no Evidence against them Mr. I. Allybone Brother Pemberton as to the Objection you make of Comparing of Hands it is an Objection indeed I do agree but then consider the inconvenience which you and Mr. Pollixfen do so much insist upon If a Man should be accused by Comparison of Hands Where is he He is in a lamentable Case for his Hand may be so Counterseited that he himself may not be able to distinguish it But then you do not consider where you are on the other side that may be an Objection in matters of Fact that will have very little weight if compared and set altogether For on the other side where shall the Government be if I will make Libels and traduce the Government with Prudence and Discretion and all the secrecy imaginable I 'll Write my Libel by my self prove it as you can that 's a fatal blot to the Government and therefore the Case is not the same nor is your Doctrine to pass for current here because every Case depends upon its own Fact. If I take upon me to Swear I know your Hand the inducements are to my self how I came to know it so as to Swear it Knowledge depends on Circumstances I swear that I know you but yet I may be under a mistake for I can have my knowledge of you no other way but from the visibility of you and another Man may be so like you that there is a possibility of my being mistaken but certainly that is Evidence and good Evidence Now here are several Gentlemen that swear as to my Lord Archbishop's Hand-writing I do agree as to some of the others that the Evidence is not so strong for what that Man said that he did believe it was rather such a Lord's Hand than that which went before or that which came after it is of no weight at all and so some of the others but it is positively proved against my Lord Archbishop and one or two more so that that 's enough to induce the reading of this writing Mr. Iust. Holloway Good my Lord let me give my opinion L. C. Iust. Ay withall my heart Brother Mr. Iust. Holloway My Lord I think as this Case is there ought to be a more strong proof for certainly the proof ought to be stronger and more certain in Criminal matters than in Civil matters in Civil matters we do go upon slight proof such as the comparison of Hands for proving a Deed or a Witnesses Name and a very small proof will induce us to read it but in Criminal matters we ought to be more strict and require positive and substantial proof that is fitting for us to have in such a Case and without better proof I think it ought not to be read L. C. Iust. You must go on to some other proof Mr. Sollicitour for the Court is divided in their Opinions about this proof Mr. Soll. Gen. Then my Lord we will come to the Confessions of my Lords the Bishops and I hope that will be believed by all Man-kind Mr. Att. Gen. Truly my Lord we did forbear that Evidence and would not have proceeded this way if we had had fair play on the other side Sir Ro. Sawyer Mr. Attorney give us leave to defend our Clients all the ways we can I think we doe nothing but what is fair the Court you see is divided therefore we did not without reason insist upon it L. C. Iust. You must go on as you can for they will put you upon it Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Blathwayt Mr. Blathwayt Sworn Mr. Soll. Gen. Pray hand the writing to him The writing shown to him Mr. Soll. Gen. Have you seen that writing formerly Sir Mr. Blathwayt Yes Sir. Mr. Soll. Gen. What did you hear my Lord Arch-Bishop say about that Paper Mr. Att. Gen. And the rest of my Lords the Bishops Mr. Soll. Gen. First we 'll ask as to my Lord Arch-Bishop did he own it to be his Hand-writing Mr. Blathwayt My Lord I believe this to be the Paper that my Lord Arch-bishop did own to be subscribed by him Mr. Soll. Gen. When was it owned by him Mr. Blathwayt On the Council day the Eighth of this Month. Mr. Soll. Gen. Where was it owned because we would obviate that Objection of the County Mr. Blathwayt It was at the Council Table at
Whitehall Mr. Soll. Gen. What say you to the Bishop of St. Asaph Did he own it Mr. Blathwayt Yes All my Lords the Bishops did own it Mr. Soll. Gen. Name them particularly what say you the Bishop of Ely Mr. Blathwayt In the same manner my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. The Bishop of Chichester Mr. Blathwayt In the same manner Mr. Soll. Gen. The Bishop of Bath and Wells Mr. Blathwayt Yes my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. The Bishop of Peterborough Mr. Blathwayt Yes my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. And the Bishop of Bristol Mr. Blathwayt Yes my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. So We have proved they all owned it Mr. Iust. Holloway Could not this have been done at first and saved all this trouble Sir Rob. Sawyer Have you done with Mr. Blathwayt Mr. Attorney that we may ask him some questions Mr. Att. Gen. Ask him what you will. Mr. Ser. Pemb. Pray Mr. Blathwayt upon what occasion did they own it you are Sworn to tell the whole truth pray tell all your Knowledge and the whole Confession that they made Mr. Blathwayt My Lord I am called here by a Subpoena to answer on behalf of the King my Lord I am ready to doe my duty and I beg of your Lordship that you would please to tell me what is my duty for whatsoever I shall answer I shall speak the truth in Mr. Ser. Pemb. There is nothing desired but that you would speak the truth Mr. Blathwayt My Lord I am easily guided by your Lordship what I ought to answer to L. C. Iust. What is it you ask him Brother Pemberton Mr. Ser. Pemb. We desire Mr. Blathwayt to tell the whole discourse that passed at the Council when he says my Lords the Bishops owned this Paper Mr. Soll. Gen. That 's a very pretty thing indeed L. C. Iust. Look you Mr. Blathwayt you must answer them what they ask you unless it be an ensnaring Question and that the Court will take care of Mr. Blathwayt If your Lordship please to ask me any Question I shall readily answer it L. C. Iust. You must answer them Mr. Ser. Pemb. We ask you upon what occasion they came to own their Hands What discourse was made to them and what they answered Mr. Blathwayt My Lord I beg your Lordship's directions L. C. Iust. Come tell it Sir. Mr. Blathwayt My Lord the occasion was this This Paper was read in Council and I had the honour to read it before the King and it having been read before his Grace the Arch-Bishop and my Lords the Bishops they were asked whethey did own that Paper and my Lord they did own it Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Blathwayt was that the first time that my Lords the Bishops came in Mr. Blathwayt Sir I was not asked that Question L. C. Iust. What would you have Sir Robert Sawyer Sir Robert Sawyer We would have an account what passed at the Council L. C. Iust. Would you have all the Discourse betwixt the Council and my Lords the Bishops Mr. Ser. Pemb. All that relates to their Accusation my Lord their whole Confession and what was said to them Mr. Att. Gen. Do you think Mr. Serjcant that when we call a Witness you are at liberty to examine him to every impertinent thing Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord we desire that they may only ask reasonable and proper Questions Mr. Ser. Pemb. Mr. Sollicitour he is sworn to answer and tell the whole truth and that 's all we ask of him Sir Rob. Sawyer Sir I will ask you a plain Question upon your Oath did not my Lord Arch-Bishop and the rest of my Lords the Bishops at first resuse to own it or to answer whether it were their Hands or not Mr. Soll. Gen. That is not a fair Question Sir Robert Sawyer 't is a leading Question Mr. Ser. Pemb. Then I ask you in short what did they refuse I am sure that is a fair Question for God forbid that any should hinder the King's Evidence from telling truth Sir Rob. Sawyer And God forbid that half Evidence should condemn any man. L. C. Iust. God forbid the Truth should be concealed any way Mr. Ser. Pemb. Pray Sir when they were first asked whether that was their Hands or not what answer did they give Mr. Blathwayt Sir I have begged the favour of my Lords the Judges to tell me what I am to answer and what Questions are proper for me to answer to L. Ch. Iust. You must answer any Questions that are not ensnaring Questions Sir Robert Sawyer Mr. Blathwayt you are upon your Oath to testifie the Truth Mr. Blathwayt Sir I am not acquainted with the Methods of Law I desire my Lords the Judges would instruct me Mr. Iust. Ailibone Answer to the Question that they ask you Ld. Ch. Iust. We observe what they ask you we 'll take care that they ask you nothing but what they should Mr. Blathwayt I desire the Question may be repeated Mr. S. Pemberton When they were first asked if it were their Hands what answer did they give the King Mr. Blathwayt His Grace the Archbishop and my Lords the Bishops at first did not immediately answer whether the Paper were theirs or no. Mr. S. Peinberton What did they say Mr. Blathwayt They said they did humbly hope if they were put to answer no advantage should be taken against them Mr. S. Pemberton What did they say farther at that time concerning His Majesties pleasure Mr. Soll. Gen. That 's a leading Question Mr. S. Pemberton you cannot leave your way of leading Witnesses Mr. S. Pemberton It is a very strange thing if we ask a question that 's general that 's excepted to if we ask any question in particular then they find fault with us that it is a leading Question so that we can never ask a question that will please them Pray Mr. Blathwayt what did they say concerning the King's pleasure whether they would answer if the King commanded them Mr. S. Trinder How can it be material what they said L. Cn. Iust. It is material that it should be asked and that it should be answered Mr. S. Levinz You are to tell the whole Truth Sir Pray tell us what did my Lords the Bishops say about submitting to the King's pleasure Mr. Soll. Gen. What is that to the purpose Mr. Pollixfen Mr. Sollicitour his Oath is to tell the truth and the whole truth and therefore he must answer my question Mr. S. Pemberton You are mighty loth Mr. Sollicitour to let us hear the truth I would not willingly lead him in any thing and I cannot see that this is any leading question unless his Oath be against Law which says he is to tell the whole truth Mr. At. Gen. My Lord I do beg your Lordship's favour of a word in this thing It is certain if they ask any thing that shall take off the Evidence that was first given that it is not true I cannot oppose it but if they ask questions onely to conflame and to possess people
upon all Occasions chopp'd in upon and I do not know how they come to take this Liberty I am sure other people had it not in former times when these Gentlemen stood where we do as soon as ever we offer to speak presently there are two or three upon us L. Ch. Iust. Let me hear them Mr. Attorney make their Objection and let the Record be read and that will answer that Objection Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord as for that other thing they come and tell us we have set forth a Petition we say no such thing in the Information we say you composed a certain Libell pretensâ—… Petitionis in which are contained such and such things and now I pray let it be read Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray my Lord hear me a little first Take the Information as we have laid it and I believe there are twenty Presidents that I could give you in an instant of late days practice so was the Information against Mr. Baxter so was the Information against Mr. Iohnson so was the Information against Doctor Eades and so was the Information against Sir Samuel Barnardiston They are all in this form sic continetur so that as for that matter we are well enough But here 's another thing say they You do not set out the Petition we say it is a Libell and it is not the Name we rely on but there is such a Libell so we in our Information call it if it be not a Libell then are they very innocent and whether it be or no is now in Judgment before your Lordship but if it be as we say then it is not the speaking ill things in the body of a Petition and then giving it a good Title and in concluding it with a good Prayer at the end of it 't is not I say any of these that will sweeten this Crime nor alter nor alleviate it at all if there be that which is Seditious and Libellous in the Body of it call the Paper what you will and smooth it with a Preamble or a Conclusion that will not make it any thing less a Libell these things are plain and manifest We say there is such a thing done a Libell made pretensâ—… Petitionis do you call it what you will but we say these and these things are a Libell upon the King and the Government We have proved our Case we have proved there was such a Paper under their Hands we have proved it was owned in Middlesex and then we are in your Judgment whether this be not Evidence sufficient to convict the Defendents L. Ch. Iust. But they do make an Objection about the Writing and Contriving of it that it is not proved to be in Middlesex Mr. Serj. Trinder My Lord our Information does not go with a continued Clause that they framed a Libell ut sequitur in haec verba but we only say they made a Libell pretensu Petitionis and then we say In quo quidem Libello continetur so and so we do not tie our selves up to a particular Recital of all that 's in the Paper L. Ch. Iust. Read the Record Clerk Reads Ipsi iidem Willielmus Archiepiscopus Cantuariensis and the rest dicta decimo octavo die Maii Anno Regni dicti Domini Regis nunc quarto supradicto vi armis c. apud Westmonasterium praedictum in Comitatu Middlesexiae praedicto ilioite malitiose seditiose scandalose quoddam falsum fictum pernitiosum seditiosum Libellum in scriptis de eodem Domino Rege Regall Declaratione Ordine predictis pretensu Petitionis fabricaverunt composuerunt scripserunt fabricari componi scribi causaverunt eundem fâ—…lfum fictum malitiosum pernitiosum seditiosum Libellum per ipsos praedictos Willielmum Archiepiscopum Cantuariensem and the rest manibus suis propriis respective subscriptum die anno loco ultimo mentionatis in proesentia dicti Domini Regis nunc vi armis c. publicaverunt publicari causaverunt In quo quidem falso ficto malitioso pernitioso seditioso Libello continetur The humble Petition of c. Mr. Serj. Levinz It is quite another thing that which is produced from that which is in the Information by this leaving out a part for here is the Prayer omitted and the Direction Mr. Sol. Gen. Then my Lord I think there is nothing in the Case but this mighty Objection of the County and says Mr. Serj. Levinz if my Country-man Confesses in this County that he stole a Horse in Yorkshire you shall not try him in London but in Yorkshire because by his own Confession the Fact is in another County Mr. Serj. Levinz I did not put the Case so Mr. Sol. Gen. But take the Fact of the Case as it is here my Lord the Bishops come in Middlesex and own this Paper my Lord Archbishop owns it to be his Writing and the rest of the Bishops own their Hands if they had done as Mr. Serjeant's Yorkshire-man did and said we own we did this but it was in the County of York then it would have been like the Case that these Gentlemen put but here we are in a plain Case of another nature my Lord Archbishop comes here in Middlesex and owns that he writ the Paper the other Bishops they signed it now it does lie certainly in their knowledge where this was done and they should have declared then but they have owned it as their Paper and the signing and writing of it which is enough for us Mr. Finch I own this to be my Paper therefore I writ it in the County of Middlesex Is that a Consequence I am very glad they are no better at their Inferences Mr. Sol. Gen. They have owned the thing in Middlesex that we insist upon and they have not owned it with any qualification if they had said it was done in another County then you must have taken it to be as they said it then if they do not distinguish the place of the Fact your Lordship can only take it to be where they owned it it would be supposed to be done in that place for when they owned the Fact it will be supposed if they do not say where it was done that it was done where they owned it because the King cannot tell where it was done but the Evidence comes out of their own mouths they may give satisfaction where it was done for they know it and till that be done the Supposition is against them that it was done in the place where they owned it and that is a plain Case wheresoever a man is to speak of his own Fact. Indeed if I publish the Writing of another person which is Libellous then there must be a particular proof of the place because it is flot my own Fact but if those Lords publish a Libell that they make themselves it is in their own knowledge and in their own power to tell where it was done because it is their
of the Letter and that was not the ground of the Judgment given against him there that it was the Publication of a Libel but the very Fact was a particular offence for said the Court there if you will send a Letter to a private Man and that is a Letter that will provoke him to break the Peace that is an Offence punishable in the Star-Chamber but that is not the Reason which was alledged because no Action will lie for want of Proof but quite the contrary because they may produce the Porter or Party that brought it and prove it that it came from this man's hands and I do not question but that in the King's Bench at this day if a man will write a Letter privately to provoke another man to fight there will lie an Information but not for a Libel for there it will be necessary for to make it an Offence that there be a Publication for that is the very form of the Crime and upon that ground were all those Judgments against Libels in the Star-Chamber My Lord I agree to write a Letter to the King of another Person or to make a Petition to the King concerning another Person as of my Lord Chancellor or the Judges or the like to complain to the King of them scandalously with provoking and reviling Language that is a Publication and so if I write a Letter to one man of another if there be Scandal in a Letter that is a Pubâ—…cation of a Libel and that is the difference that has been always taken where it is essential to make it a Libel that there be a Publication such a Publication must be proved and the delivery of a Letter to a man that concerns himself is no Publication but in this case they have not so much as proved that it was delivered to the King. Mr. Serj. Pemberton My Lord with your Lordship's leave I take it that they have given no manner of Evidence of a Publication to say the writing and subscribing of their Names to a Paper is a Publication of that Paper is such a Doctrine truly as I never heard before supposing this Paper had lain in my Study subscribed by me but never went further would this have been a Publication They never said any such thing As to Algernoon Sidney's Case there was no colour for it that it should be a Publication but it was an Overt Act of Treason to compose such a Book They have proved by our Confession here that we have subscribed this Paper they would take it now that therefore it must be presumed we sent this to the King and so surmise us into an Information for making and publishing a Libel which we sent to the King but they do not prove it at all My Lord there are a thousand ways that it might come into Middlesex and perhaps come to the King's Hands too without our knowledge of Delivery and sure you will not presume these Noble Persons without Evidence to be guilty of such an Offence as this is suggested to be so that My Lord and Gentlemen of the Jury 't is impossible for you to find this a Publication in Middlesex and for the other thing the writing this Paper they that would make it an Offence must prove where it was done Mr. Ser. Levinz My Lord The Answer that I shall give to what has been said on the other side is very short the Cases that have been cited are all Law but not one tittle to this purpose In Sir Baptist Hicks's Case and Williams's Case it was proved they all sent them to the Places whither they were directed but is there a tittle of Proof that these Bishops sent it here In all those Cases they must send it either by a Porter or a Carrier and they send it as their own Act and when it comes there by their sending that is sufficient Proof of their Act in the place whither it is sent And for Sidney's Case there was Treason in the very Libel and Book that he made and he was not indicted for Publishing but for Treason in the place where it was found because it was found in his possession But was this ever in my Lord Archbishops possession in Middlesex or the rest of the Bishops and were they publishing of it if it had then it had been their Act clearly But that is the thing wherein they are defective that they do not prove that my Lords the Bishops sent or brought it here but upon the Question asked them by the King they acknowledged it to be their Hands So that my Lord there is no proof of any Fact done here but an Acknowledgment of a Fact done no Body knows where upon the King's Question here in Middlesex Is that any Proof of this Information Mr. Finch Pray my Lord spare me a Word on the same side let us see what the Evidence is The Evidence is this That the King brought the Paper to the Council-Table and the Bishops owned their Hands to it This is the Effect of the Evidence and all that is to prove the Forming and Making a Libel in Middlesex and the Publication of that Libel And what is therefore inferred from thence why having proved that the King brought the Paper to the Council-Table and the Bishops owned their Hands Therefore first the Bishops made this Libel in Middlesex Secondly they brought it to the Council-Table and published it at the Council-Table or else there is no proof at all For here is nothing of Evidence given of any Fact but because they acknowledged it therefore they made it therefore they gave it to the King in Middlesex This were good Evidence if they had had the Help of a Supposition to make it good but they want that nor must any such thing be admitted but I think they are such gross false Consequences that I doubt not you 'l be of Opinion Here 's no proof of a Publication in Middlesex and then there is no proof at all against my Lords the Bishops Mr. Pollixfen I must confess I hear them say two Acts prove a Publication in this Case the one is the Writing of the Libel and the Subscribing If so then I think upon the Evidence that has been given the Court must needs be satisfied that the Writing of it was in Surrey The next is their owning their Hands for there is no Act done that appears or any Evidence against them of any Act done from the time of the Writing to the time that they were asked is this your Hand Surely no Man would ever think this to be a Publication where one is asked by Authority whether such a Paper be his Hand and he acknowledges 〈◊〉 in Answer to that Question to turn this to be a Crime I think it can never be done nor never was done before Then there is nothing in the Case that they can hold to for Evidence and Proof against my Lords the Bishops but the Writing and that is apparent to
you but all that I was going to say would have amounted to no more than this That there being no Evidence against us we must of course be acquitted Mr. Just. Holloway My Lord did intend to have said as much as that I dare say L. C. Iust. Well Gentlemen of the Jury we have had Interruption enough Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord I must beg your Pardon for interrupting you now and I am very glad these Gentlemen have given us this Occasion because we shall now be able to clear this Point There is a Fatality in some Causes my Lord and so there is in this we must beg your Patience for a very little while for we have notice that a Person of very great Quality is coming that will make it appear that they made their Addresses to him that they might deliver it to the King. L. C. Iust. Well You see what comes of the Interruption Gentlemen now we must stay Then there was a Pause for near half an hour Mr. Att. Gen. Pray my Lord put the Case that a Man writes a Libel in one County and it is found in another Is not he answerable unless he can shew something that may satisfy the Jury how it came there Mr. Soll. Gen. Ought he not to give an account what became of it L. C. Iust. No look you Mr. Attorney you must look to your Information and then you will find the Case that you put does not come up to it It is for Writing Composing and Publishing and causing to be published and all this is laid in Middlesex Now you have proved none of all these things to be done in the County Mr. Att. Gen. They did in Middlesex confess it was theirs L. C. Iust. Ay but the owning their Hands is not a publication in Middlesex and so I should have told the Jury Mr. Finch I beg your Lordship's pardon for interrupting you Mr. Att. Gen. But my Lord does it not put the Proof upon them to prove how it came out of their Hands into the King's Hands L. C. Iust. No the Proof lies on your part Mr. Pollixfen Pray my Lord give us your favour to dismiss us and the Jury Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord our Witnesses will be here presently Mr. Att. Gen. Sure my Lord the Presumption is on our side Mr. Iust. Powell No the Presumption is against you for my Lord Arch-Bishop lived in Surry and it is proved was not out of Lambeth-House since Michaelmass till he came before the Council Mr. S. Pemb. Pray good my Lord we stand mightily uneasy here and so do the Jury pray dismiss us L. C. Iust. I cannot help it it is your own Fault Then there was another great Pause Lord Chief Iustice. Sir Bartho Shore now we have time to hear your Speech if you will. Mr. Poâ—…fen My Lord there is no Body come nor I believe will come Mr. Soll. Gen. Yes he will come presently we have had a Messenger from him Call Mr. Graham 〈◊〉 He is gone and said he would come presently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My Lord he will bring ouâ—… Witnesses with him Then there was another 〈◊〉 Mr. S. Pemb. My Lord this is very unusual to stay thus for Evidence L. Ch. Iust. It is so but I am sure you ought not to have any â—…avour Mr. Solicitor Are you assured that you shall have this Witness that you speak of Mr. Soll. Gen. Yes my Lord he will be here presently L. Ch. Iust. We have staid a great while already and therefore it is â—…it that we should have some Oath made that he is coming Mr. Sol. Gen. The Cryer tells you that Mr. Graham did acquaint him that he would return presently L. Ch. Iust. Give him the Book Mr. Soll. Gen. Let your Left-hand give your Right-hand the Oath The Cryer sworn L. Ch. Iust. By the Oath that you have taken did Mr. Graham tell you there was any further Witness coming in this Case Cryer Yes my Lord he did he went out of the Hall and returned when your Lorship was directing the Jury and he asked me what the Court were upon and I told him you were directing the Jury and then he said my Lord Sunderland was a coming but he would go and prevent him and afterwards he returned and finding your Lordship did not go on to direct the Jury he said he would go again for my Lord Sunderland whom he had sent away and he is now gone for him and he said he would bring him with him presently L. Ch. Iust. Well then we must stay till the Evidence for the King comes for now there is Oath made that he is coming And after a considerable pause the Lord President came Mr. Attor Gen. My Lord we must pray that my Lord President may be sworn in this Case on behalf of the King. The Lord President sworn Mr. Attor Gen. My Lord with your Lordship's favour I would ask my Lord President a Question Your Lordship remembers where we left this Cause we have brought it to this Point That this Petition came to the King's Hands that it is a Petition written by my Lord Arch-bishop and subscribed by the rest of my Lords the Bishops but there is a Difficulty made whether this Petition thus prepared and written was by them delivered to the King and whether my Lords the Bishops were concerned in the doing of it and were privy oâ—… Parties to the Delivery Now that which I would ask your Lordship my Lord President is Whether they did make their Application to your Lordship to speak to the King. Mr. Soll. Gen. Did they make their Application to your Lordship upon any account whatsoever L. President My Lord my Lord Bishop of St. Aâ—…ph and my Lord Bishop of 〈◊〉 came to my Office and told me they came in the Names of my Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury and four others of their Brethren and themselves with a Petition which they 〈◊〉 to deliver to his Majesty and they did come to me to know which was the best way of doing it and whether the King would give them leave to do it or not they would have had mâ—… râ—…d tâ—…ir Petition but I refused it and said I thought it did not at all belong to me but I would let the King know their desire and bring them an Answer immediately what his pleasure was in it which I did I acquainted the King and he commanded me to let my Lords the Bishops know they might come when they pleased and I went back and told them so upon which they went and fetch'd the rest of the Bishops and when they came immediately they went into the Bed-Chamber and 〈◊〉 another Room where the King waâ—… this is that I know of the matter Mr. Soll. Gen. About what time was this pray my Lord L. President I believe there could not be much time between my coming from the King and their fetching their Brethren and going in to the King. Mr. Soll. Gen. They were with the King that
there was nothing of Sedition nothing of Malice nothing of Scandal in it nothing of the Salt and Vinegar and Pepper that they have put into the Case We shall prove the Matters that I have open'd for our Defence and then I dare say your Lordship and the Jury will be of Opinion we have done nothing but our Duty Mr. Finch May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury This Information sets forth as you may observe upon opening it that the King having by his Royal Prerogative set forth his Declarations that have been read and made an Order of Council for the Reading the said Declarations in the Churches and that the Archbishop and Bishops should severally send them into their Diocesses to be read my Lords the Bishops that are the Defendants did consult and conspire together to diminish the Kingly Authority and Royal Prerogative of the King and his Power and Government in his Regal Prerogative in setting forth his Declaration and that in prosecution of that Conspiracy they did contrive as it was laid in the Information a malicious seditious scandalous false and feigned Libel under pretence of a Petition and so set forth the Petition and that they published the Petition in the presence of the King. To this Charge in the Information Not Guilty being pleaded the Evidence that hath been given for the King I know hath been observed by the Court and the Jury and I know will be taken into Consideration how far it does come up to the Proof of the Delivery of this Petition by my Lords the Bishops for all that was said till my Lord President was pleas'd to come was no Evidence of any Delivery at all and my Lord Preâ—…dent's Evidence is that they were going to deliver a Petition but whether they did deliver it or did it not or what they did deliver he does not know This is all the Evidence that has been given for the King. But supposing now my Lord that there were room to presume that they had delivered this Petition set forth in the Information let us consider what the Question is between the King and my Lords the Bishops The Question is Whether they are guilty of Contriving to diminish the King's Regal Authority and Royal Prerogative in his Power and Government in setting forth this Declaration Whether they are guilty of the making and presenting a malicious seditious and scandalous Libel and whether they have published it as it is said in the Information in the King's Presence So that the Question is not now reduced to this Whether this Paper that is set forth in the Information was delivered to the King by my Lords the Bishops but whether they have made a malicious seditious and scandalous Libel with an Intent to diminish the King's Royal Prerogative and Kingly Authority And then if you Gentlemen should think that thâ—… is Evidence given sufficient to prove that my Lords the Bishops have delivered to the King that Paper which is set forth in the Information yet unless they have delivered a false malicious seditious and scandalous Libel unless they have published it to stir up Sedition in the Kingdom and unless they have contrived this by Conspiracy to diminish the King 's Royal Prerogative and Authority and that Power that is said to be iâ—… the King my Lords the Bishops are not guilty of this Accusation There are in this Declaration several Clauses which upon reading of the Information I am sure cannot but have been observed by you Gentlemen of the Jury and one special Clause hath been by the Council already opened to you and I shall not enlarge upon it My Lord This Petition that is thus delivered to the King if it be a Libel a scandalous and seditious Libel as the Information calls it it must be so either for the Matter of the Petition or for the Persons that deliver'd the Petition or for the manner of their presenting and delivering it But neither for the Matter nor for the Persons nor for the manner of presenting it is there any Endeavour to dimâ—…nish the King 's Royal Prerogative nor to stir up Sedition nor Reflection upon the King 's true Royal and Kingly Authority The Petition does humbly set forth to His Majesty that there having been such a Declaration and such an Order of Council they did humbly represent to His Majesty that they were not averse to any thing commanded them in that Order in respect to the just and due Obedience that they owed to the King nor in respect of their want of a due Tenderness to those Persons to whom the King had been pleased to shew his Tenderness but the Declaration being founded upon a Power of Dispensing which had been declared illegal in Parliament several times and particularly in the Years 1662 72 and 85. they did humbly beseech His Majesty they not being able to comply with his Command in that matter that he would not insist upon it Now my Lord Where is the Contrivance to diminish the King's Regal Authority and Royal Prerogative This is a Declaration founded upon a Power of Dispensing which undertakes to suspend all Laws Ecclesiastical whatsoever for not Coming to Church or not Receiving the Sacrament or any other Nonconformity to the Religion established or for or by reason of the Exercise of Religion in any manner whatsoever Ordering that the Execution of all those Laws be immediately suspended and they are thereby declared to be suspended as if the King had a Power to suspend at once all the Laws relating to the establish'd Religion and all the Laws that were made for the Security of our Reformation These are all suspended by His Majesty's Declaration as it is said in the Information by virtue of his Royal Prerogative and Power so to do Now my Lord I have always taken it with Submission that a Power to abrogate Laws is as much a part of the Legislature as a Power to make Laws A Power to lay Laws asleep and to suspend Laws is equal to a Power of Abrogating them for they are no longer in Being as Laws while they are so laid asleep or suspended And to abrogate all at once or to do it time after time is the same thing and both are equally parts of the Legislature My Lord In all the Education that I have had in all the small Knowledge of the Laws that I could attain to I could never yet hear of or learn that the Constitution of this Government in England was otherwise than thus That the whole Legislative Power is in the King Lords and Commons the King and his two Houses of Parliament But then If this Declaration be founded upon a part of the Legislature which must be by all Men acknowledged not to reside in the King alone but in the King Lords and Commons it cannot be a legal and true Power or Prerogative This my Lord has been attempted but in the last King's time it never was pretended till
when I reflect what an inconsiderable number of men began it and how long they carried it on without any opposition I hope every body will be convinced that the Militia which hath hitherto been so much depended upon is not sufficient for such Occasions and that there is nothing but a good force of well disciplined Troops in constant pay that can defend us from such as either at home or abroad are disposed to disturb us And in truth my concern for the peace and quiet of my Subjects as well as for the safety of the Government made me think it necessary to increase the number to the proportion I have done this I owed as well to the honour as to the security of the Nation whose Reputation was so infinitely exposed unto all our Neigbours by having lain open to this late wretched Attempt that it is not to be repaired without keeping such a Body of Men on foot that none may ever have the thoughts again of finding us so miserably unprovided It is for the support of this great Charge which is now more than double to what it was that I ask your assistance in giving me a Supply answerable to the Expence it brings along with it And I cannot doubt but what I have begun so much for the honour and defence of the Government will be continued by you with all the chearfulness and readiness that is requisite for a Work of so great importance Let no man take Exception that there are some Officers in the Army not qualified according to the late Tests for their Imployments The Gentlemen I must tell you are most of them well known to me and having formerly served with me on several Occasions and always approved the Loyalty of their Principles by their Practices I think them fit now to be employed under me and will deal plainly with you that after having had the benefit of their Services in such time of need and danger I will neither expose them to disgrace nor my self to the want of them if there should he another Rebellion to make them necessary to me I am afraid some men may be so wicked to hope and expect that a difference may happen between you and me upon this Occasion but when you consider what advantages have risen to us in a few months by the good understanding we have hitherto had what wonderful effects it has already produced in the change of the whole scene of Affairs abroad so much more to the honour of the Nation and the figure it ought to make in the World and that nothing can hinder a further progress in this way to all our satisfactions but Fears and Jealousies amongst our selves I will not apprehend that such a misfortune can befall us as a Division or but a Coldness between me and you nor that any thing can shake you in your Steadiness and Loyalty to me who by God's blessing will ever make you all returns of kindness and protection with a Resolution to venture even my own Life in the defence of the true Interest of this Kingdom Sir Rob. Sawyer Turn to the Commons Journal the 16th of November 1685. The Journal of the House of Commons put in Clerk reads Die Lune xvi die Novemb. 1685. Most Gracious Sovereign We your Majesty's most Loyal and Faithful Subiects the Commons in Parliament assembled do in the first place as in duty bound return your Majesty our most humble and hearty thanks for your great care and conduct in the suppression of the late Rebellion which threatned the overthrow of this Government both in Church and State and the uttermost extirpation of our Religion by Law established which is most dear unto us and which your Majesty has been pleased to give us repeated assurances you will always defend and support which with all grateful hearts we shall ever acknowledg We further crave leave to acquaint your Majesty That we have with all duty and readiness taken into our consideration your Majesty's gracious Speech to us and as to that part of it relating to the Officers in the Army not qualified for their Imployment according to an Act of Parliament made in the 25th year of the Reign of your Majesty's Royal Brother of blessed memory Intituled An Act for preventing danger that may happen by Popish Recusants We do out of our bounden duty humbly represent unto your Majesty That those Officers cannot by Law be capable of their Imployments and that the Incapacities they bring upon themselves thereby can no ways be taken off but by Act of Parliament Therefore out of the great deference and duty we owe unto your Majesty who has been graciously pleased to take notice of their Services to you we are preparing a Bill to pass both Houses for your Royal Assent to indemnify them from the Penalties they have now incurred and because the continuance of them in their Employments may be taken to be a dispencing with that Law without Act of Parliament the consequence of which is of the greatest concern to the Rights of all your Majesty's Dutiful and Loyal Subjects and to all the Laws made for the security of their Religion We therefore the Knights Citizens and Burgesses of your Majesty's House of Commons do most humbly beseech your Majesty that you would be graciously pleased to give such directions therein that no Apprehensions or Iealousies may remain in the hearts of your Majesty's good and faithful Subjects Mr. Polixfen My Lord We pray that these half dozen lines of the Statute 1 Eliz. may be read A Statute-book was then produced by Mr. Ince L. C. J. No We will have it read out of our own Book which was delivered into Court. Clerk reads This is 1 Eliz. cap. 2. An Act for Uniformity of Religion c. Whereabout is it Mr. Ince 'T is the 15th Paragraph at these words And for the due execution c. Clerk Reads And for due Execution hereof the Queens most Excellent Majesty the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in this present Parliament Assembled do in Gods Name earnestly Require and Charge all the Archbishops Bishops and other Ordinaries that they shall endeavour themselves to the utmost of their knowledge that the due and true Execution hereof may be had throughout their Diocesses and Charges as they will answer before God for such Evils and Plagues wherewith Almighty God may justly punish his people for neglecting this good and wholsome Law. Mr. Serjeant Levinz Noâ—… my Lord if your Lordship pleases the Charge is a Charge for a Libel and there are two things to be Considered First Whether the Bishops did deliver this Paper the King 〈◊〉 thaâ—… leave upon the Evidence that has been given 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say them has been no direct proof of that In the next place Supposing they did deliver this Petition to the King Whether this be a Libel upon the Matter of it the manner of delivering it 〈◊〉 the Persons that did it And with submission my Lord this cannot
say it shall be this day fortnight and let there be a Jury according to the usual course Sir Rob. Sawyer We pray it may be in the presence of the Attorneys or Sollicitors on both sides L. C. I. What is the usual coâ—…se Sir Samuel Astry Do you use to return twenty four or forty eight and then strike out twelve a piece which I perceive they desire for the Defendants Sir Sam. Astry My Lord the course is both ways and then it may be as your Lordship and the Court will please to order it L. C. I. Then take forty eight that is the fairest Mr. Att. Gen. We agree to it we desire nothing but a fair Jury Sir Rob. Sawyer Nor we neither try it when you will. L. C. I. Take a Recognizance of his Grace my Lord of Canterbury in 200 l. and the rest of my Lords in 100 l. a piece Mr. Att. Gen. What your Lordship pleases for that we submit to it Clerk. My Lord of Canterbury your Grace acknowledges to owe unto our Soveraign Lord the King the sum of 200 l. upon condition that your Grace shall appear in this Court on this day fortnight and so from day to day till you shall be discharged by the Court and not to depart without leave of the Court. Is your Grace contented A. B. C. I do acknowledge it Clerk. My Lord Bishop of St. Asaph you acknowledge to owe unto our Soveraign Lord the King the sum of 100 l. upon condition that your Lordship shall appear in this Court on this day fortnight and so from day to day until you shall be discharged by the Court and not to depart without leave of the Court. Is your Lordship contented Bish. of St. Asaph I do acknowledge it The like Recognizances were taken of all the rest of the Bishops and then the Court arose De Termino Sanctae Trinitatis Anno Regni Jacobi Secandi Regis Quarto In Banco Regis Die Veneris vicesimo nono die Junii 1688. in eod ' Term. Being the Feast of St. PETER and St. PAUL Dominus Rex versus Archiep. Cantuar. al. Sir Robert Wright Lord Chief Justice Mr. Justice Holloway Mr. Justice Powell Mr. Justice Allybone Judges Clerk. CRyer make Proclamation thrice Cryer Oyes Oyes Oyes Our Sovereign Lord the King streightly charges and commands every one to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment Cl. of the Cr. Call the Defendents Cryer William Lord Archbishop of Canterbury Archbish. Here. Cryer William Lord Bishop of St. Asaph Bish. St. Asaph Here. And so the rest of the Bishops were called and answered severally Clerk. Gardez votres Challenges Swear Sir Roger Langley Cryer Take the Book Sir Roger. You shall well and truly try this Issue between our Sovereign Lord the King and William Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and others according to your Evidence So help you God. The same Oath was administred to all the Jury whose Names follow viz. Sir Roger Langley Barr. Sir William Hill Knt. Roger Iennings Esq Thomas Harriot Esq Ieoffery Nightingale Esq William Withers Esq William Avery Esq Thomas Austin Esq Nicholas Grice Esq Michael Arnold Esq Thomas Done Esq Richard Shoreditch Esq Clerk. You Gentlemen of the Jury who are sworn hearken to the Record Sir Thomas Powis Knight His Majesty's Attorney-General has exhibited an Information which does set forth as followeth ff MEmorandum That Sir Thomas Powys Knt. Attorney-General of our Lord the King who for our said Lord the King in this behalf prosecutes came here in his own person into the Court of our said Lord the King before the King himself at Westminster on Friday next after the morrow of the Holy Trinity in this Term and on the behalf of our said Lord the King giveth the Court here to understand and be informed That our said Lord the King out of his signal Clemency and gracious intention towards his Subjects of his Kingdom of England by his Royal Prerogative on the fourth day of April in the third year of the Reign of our said Lord the King at Westminster in the Country of Middlesex did publish his Royal Declaration entituled His Majesty's Gracious Declaration to all his Loving Subjects for Liberty of Conscience bearing date the same day and year sealed with the Great Seal of England in which Declaration is contained JAMES R. proâ—…t in the first Declaration before recited And the said Attorney-General of our said Lord the King on behalf of our said Lord the King further giveth the Court here to understand and be informed That afterwards to wit on the twenty-seventh day of April in the fourth year of the Reign of our said Lord the King at Westminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid our-said Lord the King out of his like Clemency and gracious intention towards his Subjects of his Kingdom of England by his Royal Prerogative did publish his other Royal Declaration entituled His Majesty's Gracious Declaration bearing date the same day and year last mentioned sealed with his Great Seal of England in which Declaration is contained JAMES R. Our Conduct has been such c. prout in the second Declaration before recited Which said Royal Declaration of our said Lord the King last mentioned our said Lord the King afterwards to wit on the thirtieth day of April in the fourth year of his Reign aforesaid at Westminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid did cause to be printed and published throughout all England and for the more solemn Declaring Notification and Manifestation of his Royal Grace Favour and Bounty towards all his Leige-people specified in the Declaration last mentioned afterwards to wit on the fourth day of May in the fourth year of his Reign at Westminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid our said Lord the King in due manner did Order as followeth At the Court at Whitehall the Fourth of May 1688. By the King 's most Excellent Majesty and the Lords of His Majesty's most Honourable Privy-Council IT is this day Ordered by His Majesty in Council That His Majesties late Gracious Declaration bearing date the Twenty Seventh of April last be read at the usual time of Divine Service upon the Twentieth and Twenty Seventh of this Month in all Churches and Chappels within the Cities of London and Westminster and Ten Miles thereabout And upon the Third and Tenth of Iune next in all other Churches and Chappels throughout this Kingdom And it is hereby further Ordered That the Right Reverend the Bishops cause the said Declaration to be sent and distributed throughout their several and respective Diocesses to be read accordingly W m. Bridgeman And further the said Attorney-General of our said Lord the King on behalf of our said Lord the King giveth the Court here to understand and be informed That after the making of the said Order to wit on the eighteenth day of May in the fourth year of the Reign of our said Lord the King at Westminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex
accuse even the most inferior Magistate of any misbehaviour in his Office unless it be in a legal Course though the Fact is true no Man may say of a Justice of Peace to his Face that he is unjust in his Office no Man may come to a Judge either by Word or Petition You have given an unjust or an ill Judgment and I will not obey it it is against the Rules and Law of the Kingdom or the like no Man may say of the great Men of the Nation much less of the great Officers of the Kingdom that they do act unreasonably or unjustly or the like least of all may any Man say any such thing of the King for these matters tend to possess the People that the Government is ill administred and the Consequence of that is to set them upon desiring a Reformation and what that tends to and will end in we have all had a sad and too dear bought Experience the last Age will abundantly satisfie us whither such a thing does tend Men are to take their proper remedies for Redress of any Grievances they lye under and the Law has provided sufficiently for that These things are so very well known to all Men of the Law and indeed to all the People of England of any Understanding that I need not nor will not stand any longer upon it but come to the matter that is now before you Gentlemen to be Tryed The Fact that we have laid we must prove rather to keep to the formality of a Tryal than to pretend to inform you or tell you what you do not know it is all publickly notorious to the whole World but because we must go on in the regular methods of Law we shall prove the Facts in the order they are laid in the Information First We take notice that His Majesty of his great Clemency and Goodness to his People and out of his desire that all his Subjects might live easily under him of which I think never Prince gave greater or more plain Evidence of his Intentions that way the fourth of April 1687. He did issue forth his Royal Declaration for Liberty of Conscience this matter without all question was welcome to all his People that stood in need of it and those that did not could not but say the thing in the nature of it was very Just and Gracious but presently it must be surmised that the King was not in Earnest and would or nor could not make good his Promise but to take away all Surmises his Majesty was pleased by his Declaration of the twenty seventh of April last not only to repeat his former Declaration but likewise to renew his former Promises to his People and to assure them that he still was and yet is of the same Opinion that he had at first declared himself to be of nay we further shew you that to the end that this thing might be known to all his People even to the meanest Men who it may be were not willing or able to buy the Declaration and that the King himself might be under higher Obligations if it were possible than his own Word he was desirous it should be repeated in the Churches and read in that Sacred Place that all his People might hear what he had promised and given his own Sacred Word for and he himself might be under that Solemn Tye and Obligation to keep his Word by remembring that his Promises had by his own Command been Published in the time of Divine Service in the House of God and thereupon was the Order of Council made that has been likewise read to you which does direct that it should be read in all the Churches and Chappels in the Kingdom and you have heard and we shall prove what a return His Majesty has had for this Grace and Kindness of his you 'l find when we come to read that which they call a Petition all their Thanks his Majesty had for his Favour and Goodness to his People 't is only hard Words and a heavy Accusation such as a private Person would be little able to bear I will not aggravate the matter but only say thus much that His Majesty who was always a Prince of as great Clemency as ever this Kingdom had and who was represented for all that as a Prince of the greatest Cruelty before his accession to the Crown by his Enemies is now accused by his Friends for this Effect of his Mercy My Lord and Gentlemen of the Jury His Majesty resented this ill usage so far that he has ordered and thought fit to have a publick Vindication of his Honour in this matter by this Tryal and we shall go on to our Proofs and we do not doubt but you will do his Majesty as you do all other Persons Right Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord we will go on to prove the Parts of this Information and we will proceed according to the Method which Mr. Attorney has opened and which is pursuant to the order of the Facts laid in the Information Give us the first Declaration under the Great Seal the Declaration of the 4th of April 1687. The Declaration was delivered into the Court. Mr. Sol. Gen. Read the Date of it first Clerk Reads Given at our Court at Whitehall the 4th day of April 1687 and in the third Year of our Reign Mr. Sol. Gen. Read the Title of it Sir. Clerk. It is Entituled His Majesties Gracious Declaration to all his Loving Subjects for Liberty of Conscience Sir Rob. Sawyer Is it under Seal Is the Great Seal to it Mr. Sol. Gen. Give it down to Sir Robert Sawyer that he may see it for I would have every thing as clear as possible Sir Robert Sawyer will you have it Read Sir Rob. Sawyer No we would save as much of the time of the Court as may be Mr. Sol. Gen. Then pray put in the Second Declaration of the 27th of April last Clerk Reads Given at our Court at Whitehall the 27th day of April 1688. in the fourth Year of our Reign and it is Entituled His Majesties Gracious Declaration Sir Rob. Sawyer Is that under the Great Seal too Clerk. Yes it is Mr. Sol. Gen. Deliver that down likewise that they may see it Sir Rob. Sawyer We are satisfied you need not read it Mr. Sol. Gen. Then where is the Order of Council for the Reading of it Mr. At. Gen. Swear Sir Iohn Nicholas There he is Sir Iohn Nicholas Sworn Lord Ch. Iust. Come Mr. Attorney what do you ask Sir Iohn Nicholas Mr. Sol. Gen. Hand the Order to Sir Iohn Nicholas Is that the Order of Council Sir Iohn Sir John Nicholas The Book Sir is not in my Custody there is the Register that keeps it he has it here to produce Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear Mr. Gantlett Mr. Gantlett Sworn Mr. Sol. Gen. Is that the Council Book Mr. Gantlett Yes this is the Council Book Mr. Sol. Gen. Then turn to the Order of the fourth
of May the King's Order of Council for the Reading the Declaration Mr. Gantlâ—… There it is Sir. The Book delivered into Court. Mr. Sol. Gen. Read it I Pray Clerk Reads At the Court at Whitehall the fourth of May 1688. and so reads the Order of Council Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord we have one thing that is mentioned in the Information that this Declaration was Printed if that be denied we will call Henry Hills his Majesties Printer because we would prove all our Information as it is laid Lord Ch. Iust. You must do so Mr. Sollicitor you must prove the whole Declaration Mr. Sol. Gen. Cryer call Henry Hills He was called but did not presently appear Mr. Sol. Gen. Call Mr. Bridgman though these Declarations prove themselves we have them here Printed but Swear Mr. Bridgeman Mr. Bridgeman Sworn Mr. Sol. Gen. Shew Mr. Bridgeman the two Declarations Lord Ch. Iust. What do you ask him Mr. Sol. Gen. We ask you Sir if the two Declarations were Printed Mr. Bridgeman What Declarations do you mean Mr. Solliitor Mr. Sol. Gen. You know what Declarations I mean well enough but weâ—…l ask you particularly you know the Declaration that was made the 4th of April in the third Year of the King. was it Printed Mr. Bridgeman Yes it was Printed by the King's Order Mr. Sol. Gen. Was that of the 27th of April in the 4th Year of the King Printed Mr. Bridgman Yes they were both Printed by the King's Order Mr. At. Gen. Then the next thing in course is the Bishops Paper Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Bridgeman pray let me ask you one Question Did you ever compare the Print with that under Seal Mr. Bridgeman I did not compare them Sir Robert Sawyer Mr. Sol. Gen. He does Swear they were Printed by the King's Order Sir Robert Sawyer Good Mr. Sollicitor give me leave to ask him a Question Can you Swear then that they are the same Mr. Bridgman I was not asked that Question Sir. Mr. Sol. Gen. Come then Mr. Bridgeman I 'le ask you Do you believe they are the same Sir Rob. Sawyer Is that an Answer to my Question Mr. Sol. Gen. We must ask him Questions as well as you Sir Robert what say you Do you believe it to be the same Lord Ch. Iust. You hear Mr. Sollicitors Question answer it Mr. Bridgeman Mr. Bridgeman Yes my Lord I do believe it Lord Ch. Iust. Well that 's enough Mr. At. Gen. If there were occasion we have them here Compared and they are the same Sir Rob. Sawyer With Submission my Lord in all these Cases if they will prove any Fact that is laid in an Information they must prove it by those that know it of their own Knowledge Do you know it to be the same Mr. Sol. Gen. That 's very well Sir. Sir Rob. Sâ—…yer Ay so it is Mr. Sollicitor It is a wonderful thing my Lord that we cannot be permitted to ask a Question Do you know it to be the same Mr. Bridgeman I ask you again Mr. Bridgeman I have not compared them I tell you Sir Robert Sawyer Sir Rob. Sawyer Then that is no Proof Lord Ch. Iust. Would you have a Man Swear above his Belief he tells you he believes it is the same Sir Rob. Sawyer Is that Proof of an Information Lord Ch. Iust. Well you 'l have your time to make your Objections by and by Mr. At. Gen. Then Swear Sir Iohn Nicholas Sir Iohn Nicholas I am Sworn already Mr. At. Gen. I see you have a Paper in your Hand Sir Iohn Nicholas pray who had you that Paper from Sir Iohn Nicholas I will give you an Account of it as well as I can Mr. Pollixfen Before they go to another thing my Lord we think they have failed in their Proof of their Information about the Printing this Declaration Mr. At. Gen. Where is Mr. Hills Mr. Iust. Allyb. They have laid That it was printed by the King's Order and it is such a matter Mr. Sollicitor as you may clear if you will sure Mr. Sol. Gen. There is Mr. Hills now I see him L. C. Iust. I was going to give Order that you should send to the Printing-house for him Mr. Iust. Allyb. They may put this matter out of doubt too if they will on the other side for I see they have a Copy in Print and there 's the Original they may compare them if they please Mr. Sol. Gen. I am very glad to hear such a strong Objection Sir Rob. Sawyer We would clear the way for you Mr. Sollicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. No you put Straws in our way we shall be able enough to clear it without your help Swear Mr. Hills and young Mr. Graham here Hills and Graham sworn Mr. Sol. Gen. Mr. Graham did you compare any of these Printed Declarations with the Original Graham Yes I did compare some of them and did make Amendments as I went along Mr. Sol. Gen. 〈◊〉 one that you have compar'd with the Original Mr. Att. Gen. Hills is here himself we 'll ask him Are you sworn Sir Cryer He is sworn Mr. Att. Gen. Pray were the King's Declarations for Liberty of Conscience printed both of them Hills Ay an 't please you Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. You printed them I think Hills Yes I did print them Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Hills you say they were printed Upon your Oath after they were printed did you examin them with the Original under Seal Hills They were examined before they were printed Sir Rob. Sawyer Did You examin them Hills I did not here 's one that did Mr. Sol. Gen. Who is that Hills It is Mr. Williams here Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear him Williams sworn Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you hear Williams Do you know that the King's Declaration for Liberty of Conscience two of them one of the 4th of April and the other of the 27th of April were printed Williams Yes my Lord. Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you examin them after they were printed by the Copy they were printed by Williams Yes I did Mr. Sol. Gen. Where had you the Copy who had you it from Williams I had it from Mr. Hills Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Williams did you examin them with the Original under the Great Seal Williams The First Declaration I did Sir Rob. Sawyer The Second Declaration is the main Williams The Second was Compos'd by the First Sir Rob. Sawyer Why is there no more in the Second Declaration than there was in the First Williams Yes there is Sir. Sir Rob. Sawyer Did you examin That with the Original under the Great Seal Williams No I did not Mr. Sol. Gen. Can any one tell who did examin it under the Great Seal Mr. Finch Pray what did you examin it by Mr. Williams Williams By a Copy that I receiv'd from Mr. Hills Mr. Att. Gen. Then we will go on and we desire Sir Iohn Nicholas to give an account where he had that Paper that he has in his hand Mr. Finch My Lord it does not appear that
I agree with them it is not For if we had brought three or four Men that had seen them Write this very Paper and put their Names to it that had been a stronger Evidence than this that we have given but whether we do not give such a sort of Evidence as may induce the Jury to belive that this is their Paper and their Hands to it we submit they say This is such a method as never was taken but I admire that that should be said by Men of their Experience and Knowledge in the Law for is there any thing more usual or any other course taken for the proof of Hands than for a Wittness to say He knows the Hand of the Party very well for he has often seen his Hand-writing or received Lettters from him and if you shew him the thing that you would prove to be his Hand and he says I do believe this to be his Hand for this Reason Because I have had other things of his Writing Certainly in the Experience of any Man that has practised this is an Evidence that is given every day and allowed for Evidence For the Case of Mr. Sidney which your Lordship has heard mentioned it is certainly very opposite to this purpose it is insisted upon and pretended That that was Evidence because it was found in his Study but without all doubt that would not be the reason for may not a Book of another Man 's Writing be found in my Study and he insisted upon it in his own Defence but the Answer was That it should be left as the Question Whether the Jury would believe it upon the Evidence that was given of its being his own Hand-writing And so in this Case though it be not so strong Evidence as if we had brought those that had seen them Write it yet Evidence it is and whether it be sufficient to satisfie the Jury may be a Question but no Question it is good Evidence in Law. Mr. Sol. Gen. It is a wonderful thing they say That such Evidence should be offered but truly my Lord it is a much stranger thing to hear Mr. Serj. Pemberton say It was never done before and then to make that Remark to your Lordship upon the Case of Sidney which I 'le put to your Lordship and the Court as a Case and let him contradict me if he can and then we shall see how far it goes Sidney was Indicted for High Treason and the Treason insisted upon was A Writing supposed to be his it being found in his Study the Question was Whether it was his Hand-writing or no there was no positive Evidence that is was his Hand-writing there was no Evidence produced that proved it to be his Hand-writing for there was no one that Swore That they they saw him Write it there was nothing proved but the similitude of Hands Ay but says Mr. Serj. Pemberton It was found in his Study will Mr. Serj. Pemberton be content that all the Libels that are found in his Study shall for that reason be adjudged to be Libels to be his Hand-writing and he to be a Libeller for them I think he will make a severe Declamation against that and he would have very good reason for it Certainly that which was Evidence in one Man's Case will be Evidence in another God forbid there should be any such distinction in Law and therefore I conclude that this is good Evidence Mr. Serj. Pemberton The Court went upon this That it was found in his Study and compared with Letters and Bills of Exchange produced in Court which were Sworn to be of his Hand-writing Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord I was by all the time for I was ordered to attend him in the Tower and therefore I can tell what passed as well as any Body My Lord they proved no more as to that Libel but only by Comparison of Hands they had no other proof in that Case but by comparing the Hand-writing and that was insisted upon to be a mighty fallible thing That which they would have for us to compare Paper with Paper it is true would make the proof somewhat stronger if we could in such a Case as this be able to produce such Evidence but I appeal to your Lordship and shall leave it to the Jury to consider which is better Evidence these Men that have been produced that have been Conversant with these Lords and acquainted with their Hand-writing and who as your Lordship sees are not willing Men to give Evidence they avoid it as much as they can and they Swear it all to be the Hand-writing of the Archbishop of Canterbury as they believe which is as far as any Man can Swear One says the whole Body of the Paper is my Lord of Canterbury's Hand and he knows it very well so that we are not upon a single Name but a whole Paper that contains many Lines and this is as much as can be proved by any one that did not see the thing Written Then my Lord for the rest of the Company the Evidence is not so strong against every one of them as it is against my Lord Archbishop but is strong enough certainly to Convict them of what we accuse them of and pray my Lord what was the Objection in Sidney's Case but what has been mentioned here That any Man's Hand might be Counterfeited I remember in that Case there was one Mr. Wharton a young Gentleman then in the Court that undertook to the Court That he would Counterfeit that Hand presently and he that was to Swear the Comparison should not know which was the one and which was the other which certainly was a stronger Case than this And I see some of the Learned Gentlemen that are now standing at the Bar who pressed this matter very hard against Mr. Sidney and Mr. Sidney lost his Life upon that Comparison of Hands though Mr. Wharton did Testifie how easie a matter it was to have a Man's Hand Counterfeited and we all know was a Man of Value and Quality so there is a President for Mr. Serj. Pemberton that never heard of this Law before They say the proving of similitude of Hands is no Evidence unless you prove the actual Writing what a condition then will England be in when Witnesses are Dead Is it not the most common practice that can be to produce Witnesses to prove such Men are Dead whose Names are set as Witnesses to Deeds and they Swear They believe it to be the Hand-Writing of those Witnesses Can there be any greater Evidence of such a Case unless it be the confession of the Party himself My Lord we are now only upon reading this Paper We have been heard and they have been heard now we pray the Paper may be Read. Mr. Recorder We pray it may be Read. Mr. Serj. Levinz If your Lordship please Mr. Sol. Gen. We are not to be replied upon Mr. Serjeant L. C. I. You have spoke Brother Levinz and you have
is not Evidence upon this Information Mr. Soll. Gen. We have proved it written and published in Middlesex Mr. Serj. Pemb. The contrivance and writing of a Libell is in itself penal and they may be punished for it if they be found guilty Now if they could give an undeniable Evidence concerning the publishing of it that is nothing to this point but if they should not give such Evidence or any Evidence at all of the publication yet if it be proved that it was written and contrived by them they would be guilty for so much if it be a Libell and this we say is local as well as all the rest and therefore we insist upon it that the writing and contriving must as well be proved to be in Middlesex as the publication for all is local L. C. Iust. There is no publishing yet proved Mr. Serj. Levinz It is true my Lord here is nothing of a Publication yet with your Lordship's favour for their Answer to His Majesty in Council was that they did not publish it all that is said yet is that they owned the Paper to be their hands My Lord does the owning of that own that it was written in the County of Middlesex or that it was contrived or made there No surely upon this Evidence the place is clearly at large My Lord this might have been done in the County of Surrey or Somerset or any other County Their Information is that they did consult and contrive to diminish the King's Prerogative at Westminster in the County of Middlesex and there they did write and cause to be written this Libell and there they did publish it suppose it should be granted that it is proved that this is the Archbishop's Hand-writing and these are their Names to it is there any one Evidence that any thing of this was done in Middlesex and my Lord that is the thing they are to prove Mr. Sommers If your Lordship please all matters of Crime are so local that if it be not proved to be done in the County where it is laid the party accused is as innocent as if he never had done the thing and with submission it is the very point of the Information that it be proved they are guilty of the Fact in the place where it is laid to be done L. C. Iust. This is the same thing over and over again but I am content to hear you Mr. Sommers at any time I have told you my opinion about reading of the Paper already if you 'll have it again you may Mr. Pollixfen Pray good my Lord spare us before it be read Mr. Iust. Holloway Mr. Pollixfen you have not yet had the Directions of the Court for the reading of it Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord when this Paper is read which we pray it may be we will answer their Objections but at present we say they are out of time Mr. Pollixfen Good Lord what a â—…ange thing is this We object against the reading of it and you 'll answer us after it is read Mr. Soll. Gen. Certainly my Lord we have done enough to prove that this is a paper owned by them in the County of Middlesex and we pray it may be read L. Ch. Iust. Truly I am of the same mind I was before that it is too soon to make the Objection and that the Paper ought to be read Mr. Soll. Gen. We submit to your Rule Mr. Pollixfen If it be the Will of the Court I have nothing to say Mr. Iust. Powell My Lord The Contrivance and Publication are both matters of Fact and upon Issue joined the Jurors are Judges of the Fact as it is laid in the Information but how can they be Judges of a matter of Fact done in another County and it must be presumed in favour of Innocence not to be done in this County but in another except they prove it Mr. Att. Gen. We are not yet ripe for arguing that point Mr. Soll. Gen. We are speaking only to the Court now for the reading of this Paper and the Jury are not Judges of that whether the Paper ought to be read or no that is merely a matter of Law and under the direction of the Court and therefore I pray since it is now in your Lordship's Judgment whether that Paper should be read that you would please to order it to be read L. C. Iust. I can only give you my own opinion let my Brothers give theirs Mr. Iust. Holloway There is no body against the reading of it my Lord I suppose my Brother Powell is not against its being read Mr. Iust. Powell But they say the King's Counsel must make it out first that the writing of it and the conspiring about it was in the County of Midds or there can be no judgment so much as to read it Mr. Pollixfen My Lord If the Objection be saved to us we shall not so much oppose the reading it only we would not be surprized in point of time Mr. Iust. Powell Nay if they consent to the reading we have no reason to hinder it L. C. Iust. Brother I believe they know well enough what they have to say for their Clients let the Paper be read Clerk reads The Humble Petition of William Archbishop of Canterbury Sir. R. Sawyer Read the whole Petition Pray my Lord that the whole may read Read the Top first Sir to whom it was directed L. C. Iust. Read the whole Clerk reads To the King 's Most Excellent Majesty The Humble Petition of William Archbishop of Canterbury and of divers of the Suffragan Bishops of that Province now present with him in behalf of themselves and others of their absent Brethren and of the Clergy of their respective Dioceses Humbly sheweth THat the great aversness they find in themselves to the distributing and publishing in all their Churches your Majesties late Declaration for Liberty of Conscience proceedeth neither from any want of Duty and Obedience to your Majesty our holy Mother the Church of England being both in her Principles and in her constant practice unquestionably loyal and having to her great Honour been more than once publickly acknowledged to be so by your Gratious Majesty nor yet from any want of due tenderness to Dissenters in relation to whom they are willing to come to such a Temper as shall be thought fit when that matter shall be considered and settled in Parliament and Convocation but amongst many other considerations from this especially because that Declaration is founded upon such a Dispencing Power as hath been often declared illegal in Parliament and particularly in the Years 1662 and 1672 and in the beginning of your Majesties Reign and is a matter of so great moment and consequence to the whole Nation both in Church and State that your Petitioners cannot in Prudence Honour or Conscience so far make themselves parties to it as the Distribution of it all over the Nation and the solemn Publication of it once and again even in
own Act and Dead It is true if my Lords had published a Paper that was contrived by some of their Council it had been some Excuse and they must have only suffered for that Publication in the place where it was done but they are here for Writing this they have owned in this County and therefore iâ—…â—…es upon them to prove it done elsewhere There is another Objection my Lord made That here is no Evidence of a Publicationâ—… my Lord I take it to be a Publication in it self Is it possible for a man to write a Libell to set his Name and part with it and it coming to the hands of the King that this is not a Publication It is not their saying we did not publish it that will excuse them for can there be a greater Publication in it self than this when men have set their Hands to it and owned their Names what makes the Fact in this Case If a Deed he denied to be factum of such a one what is the proof of it but setting the Hand and Seal and the Delivery There is owning the Paper and setting their Hands is a Publication in it self and therefore they cannot make any such Objection My Lord if there were occasion we have Authorities enough to this purpose and we will give them scope enough if they will argue this matter and if they have any Evidence we desire to hear what they can say to it Mr. Att. Gen. As for this matter of Fact my Lord if I take it right they do not Controvert the Publishing but say they pray make it out where it was written or composed I confess this would be a business worth the while for all persons that act in this manner and are concerned in making of Libels to understand for their advantage no man doubts in the matter of Treason but it is local then put the Case a man is found in Middlesex with a treasonable Paper in his Pocket I do not make a Comparison as if this was such a Paper I hope I am not so understood but I only put it as a Case and that the Law is so is beyond all Controversie then the man is indicted here in Midds for framing and composing such a Treasonable Libell and he comes to be tryed and says he Pray prove where I made and composed it for though you found it in my Pocket in the County of Midds yet I might doe it in the County of York upon my word this had been a very good Defence for Mr. Sidney who was indicted convicted and attainted for making a Treasonable Paper which was found in his Study might not he have put the same Objection might not Mr. Sidney have said it was great pity he did not understand it pray prove where I did it for I did it elsewhere than in this County Mr. Sol. Gen. He did say it I remember Mr. Att. Gen. Truly my Lord I would not hear any Answer given to this for it would make the King in a very woful Case Here is a Paper that is found in the County of Midds and this is there owned by you to be written and subscribed by you pray do you prove it that it was written elsewhere Mr. Serj. Pemb. My Lord we will doe it we will be governed by Mr. Attorney for once Mr. Serj. Levinz We will prove that my Lord Archbishop was not in Middlesex in seven Months before and truly I think Mr. Attorney's Case of a Paper found about a man or in his Custody will not come up to our Case for was this Paper found about us surely that is not pretended Mr. Serj. Pemb. Your Lordship sees by the very frame of the Petition that this Petition which they call a Libell was made after the King's Order concerning reading this Declaration Now we shall prove that my Lord Archbishop whose hand-writing they prove this to be was not out from Lambeth-House in two Months before nor till he was before the Council Sr. Rob. Sawyer Which was long after that time when it was made Mr. Serj. Pemb. So that this cannot be written in the County of Middlesex Call Francis Nicholls Mr. Nicholls was sworn Sir R. Sawyer Do you remember the 18th of May last Mr. Nicholls Yes Sir. Sir. R. Sawyer Pray how was it with my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury at that time and before that did he go abroad Mr. Nicholls My Lord I am very sure that my Lord his Grace of Cant. whom I have served in his Bed Chamber this seven years never stirred out of the Gate of Lambeth House since Michaelmas last Sir R. Sawyer Till when Mr. Nicholls Mr. Nicholls Not till the time he was summoned before the Councill Mr. Serj. Pemb. Now I hope we have given them a full proof that it could not be in Middles Call Thomas Smith Mr. Smith was not examined Mr. Finch Truly my Lord I think that what we have proved or what Proof we further offer of my Lord of Canterburies not being in Middlesex for so long a time is ex abundanti and we need it not for with humble submission in point of Law it is incumbent upon them that are to prove the Charge in the Information to prove where it was done because the Locality of it is part of the thing they ought to prove it in it's nature it is local there is a Place assigned in the Informâ—…ion and unless they prove it was done in the Place that they have laid they have not proved the Charge in the Information Now my Lord they have not made any Proof of that and for proof of Publication I think they have offered none to your Lordship they never did call it so yet and truly I never did hear or know that the owning of their Hands at the Council-Table was a Publication of a Libel it is owning the Writing but it is not an owning where the Writing was made but where it was written and where it was made is of necessity to be proved before the Charge upon a Record in a Court of Justice can be said to be made out it is a Local Charge and in Justice the locality must be proved or the Information fails my Lord they have offered no Proof to it and they have not yet gone to the second part of the Information for as to the Publication of it there is not a tittle of Proof offered but only the owning of their Hands upon their Examination at the Council and no Man did ever yet think that the answering a Question and owning a Paper at the Council-Table upon a Question put by the King himself was a Publication of a Libel Mr. Serjeant Baldock Pray my Lord hear me a Word to that Though the thing be never so local yet there must be some place where a thing that was done was done Then if nothing else appears but what was done in Westminster in the County of Middlesex unless they shew the contrary that must be the very
place where it was done Mr. Sollicitor General Here is a great deal of Prevarication in this matter and I would observe to your Lordship how they do use the Court ill in it pray my Lord What is it we are upon we are proving that these seven Lords the Bishops signed this Paper and I think we have proved it sufficiently out of their own Mouths But say they it was not signed in the County of Middlesex but in the County of Surrey All this is but Imagination and they would have the Court to imagine it too For how do they prove it They would have your Lordship and the Jury believe That it was signed elsewhere because my Lord Archbishop has not been out of his House in some Months before it is all but Inference and Argument and Imagination But still Gentlemen do you answer what I objected to you Does it not lie in their Power to shew where it was signed Here are six more besides the Archbishop where was it signed by them Here are six of the Bishops that it does not appear where they signed it but they confess at White-Hall in Middlesex that they did set their Hands Mr. Serjeant Levinz Ay they did so and what then Mr. Solicitor General Ay and ay too if they did so the Presumption and Common Intendment upon such Evidence is That is was done in the Place where it was owned and the rather for that Reason that I said before That it lies in their Knowledge and therefore it is incumbent upon them to prove That it was not in the County of Middlesex So that this Objection I take rather to be an Invention of the Counsel than the Truth of the Fact because they that can make this out do not And as to what they say of my Lord Archbishop That he has not been out of Doors for so long who can prove such a thing Certainly my Lord was able to come for any thing that appears he has been here twice and he was able to come to the Council-Board But when all is done my Lord Archbishop is certainly able to put this matter out of doubt for he may easily prove it if the Fact be so and that will satisfie the Court and every Body That it was signed by him at Lambeth if he designs to deal sincerely with your Lordship and the Court and the Jury but certainly it is not to be proved by a Circumstance such a one as this is but he ought to give your Lordship and the Jury Satisfaction about this Fact He ought to say 'T is true I did sign it but it was at Lambeth-House that indeed would be a down-right Stroke to us But to go upon a Supposition That because my Lord Archbishop was not out of his House for so long together therefore they are all not Guilty is a very hard and foreign Inference My Lord there 's another Matter that they insist upon and that is about the Publication that is as plain as any thing can be that here is a full Proof of a Publication for if the Paper be Libellous where-ever that Paper is that is a Publishing where-ever the Paper travels how far soever it goes it is a Publication of it by these Persons that signed it I believe no body thinks that this should fly into the King's hand but some body brought it to him and certainly my Lord if your Opinion should be that this Paper is Libellous then where ever it is it is a Publishing which is our offence where-ever it is found it is a Publâ—…tion for there is the mistake of these Gentlemen they fancy that unless there was a Publick Delivery of this Paper abroad nothing can be a Publication but I rely upon it they setting their Names to it made it their Paper and where-ever it was afterwards found that did follow the Paper where-ever it went and was a Publication of it it was in their Power being their own Contrivance it was made and formed by themselves and no body will believe when it was their own Hands that they put to it that any body else could have any power over it for ought appears no body else was at work about it and when there were so many Learned Prelates that had signed such a Paper no one can believe they would let it go out of their Hands but by their Consent and Direction Is not this a Proof of the Publishing Do they give your Lordships any Evidence that they had stifled this Paper If they had so done they had said something but will any body believe that this thing was done in vain Can any body assign a Reason why so solemn a thing as this should be done to no end and purpose Why a Paper should be framed that rails at the Kings two Declarations Why a Paper that gives Reasons why they could not read it in their Churches and signed with such Solemnity by all these Noble Lords we submit this to you in point of Law and the Law is plain in it that if this Paper be Libellous and it is found in the County of Middlesex there is a Publication of that Libel I shall mention to your Lordship that Case of Williams which is reported in the Second Part of Roll's Reports Mr. Finch made use of it in the Case of Sidney it was the great Case relied upon and that guided and governed that Case as I apprehend from the Verdict and Judgment that was given in it This Case was 15 Iacobi It seems Williams was a Barrister of the Inner-Temple and it seems being an high Catholick for Opinion and Judgment he was expelled the House and he being so expelled being a sort of a Vertuoso wâ—…ote a Book called Baalam's Ass and therein he makes use of the Prophecy of the Prophet Daniel and he makes Application of it according to his own particular fancy He writes there That this World was near at an end and he said Those ill days were come that that Prophecy had spoken of and because of the Impurity of Prince and Priest and People and other things that happened those were the worst of days and therefore the last and that certainly we had the worst Prince that ever was in the World when he wrote this Book what does he do He was a little more close than my Lords the Bishops and pins it up or seals it up and it was brought to the King and what is this more than the Case before your Lordship They indeed say I do this by way of Advice to the King so said he I do this by way of Advice to the King for God forbid that any of this should happen to the King and so what he does was by way of Advice and he prayed God to avert it from him here was as good a Prayer as there is in this Paper and there was a good design he made use of the Prophet Daniel and applied his words Well what was done upon it This was
never published for the Question was before the Court whether this Sealing of it up and not delivering it to any other body were a Publication the Court was of Opinion that the very Writing of it was a Publication they did not value the delivery of it to the Prince but it was proved he Writ it and that made it Treason My Lord we have Cases enough in my Lord Hobart for this Matter Sir Baptist Hick's Case and my Lady Hattâ—…n's Case there was only a Letter sealed up and delivered to the Party L. C. I. You need not trouble your self about that Mr. Solicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. If the Case then be thus I take it it will turn upon this Fact they have given your Lordship no Proof where this Paper was Signed by them here are seven Persons that had a hand in it and here is only one Person whom they have insisted to be infirm and kept his House for a great while together We say the Publishing follows the Libel where-ever it goes the Libel is in the County of Middlesex they have confessed it in the County of Middlesex and they did not distinguish where it was done Then if they will not distinguish upon the Evidence no Man ought to distinguish but ought to presume it was done in that place where they owned it Mr. Attor Gen. I did not apprehend we were got so far that they Opposed us in the Publication Sir Rob. Sawyer Yes we did for you have given no Evidence of it Mr. Attor Gen. Surely my Lord for that we have give a sufficient Evidence and they have given some Proof of it as to my Lord Archbishop that because he had not been from Lambeth therefore he did not publish nor could cause it to be published for your Lordship sees by this Information they are not only to answer the Publicavit but also the Publicari causavit for do you doubt Gentlemen of the Law in this Case that if I compose a Libel in Surrey for Example and send a Person over into Middlesex I am not Guilty of the Publishing Sir Rob. Sawyer That is not your Case Mr. Attorney Mr. Finch That were clear if it were so but it is not so Mr. Attor Gen. My Lord Archbishop's Case signifies nothing if we shew it was published in Middlesex and you give no Evidence to the contrary but it might be there and I am sure as to the rest of my Lords the Bishops there is no Evidence at all given Here is a Petition that we say is a Libel they it may be will make that a Question this is delivered to the King 's own Hand in the County of Middlesex and there are as many Cases as any one Man can name that this amounts to a Publication by the Party for if I send a Letter by the Post sealed that no body can see but the Party himself and he that writ it it is adjudged over and over again it is a Libel Mr. Justice Powel That you need not labour Mr. Attorney for that 's the Case of Williams of Essex but how do you apply it to the Case now before us Mr. Attor Gen. That 's an Answer to their Objection as to the Publication Mr. Justice Powel But what say you to the first part you have not proved that it was written in Middlesex Mr. Attor Gen. There is the Case of Barrow and Lewellin in Hobart and likewise the Case of Sir Baptist Hicks which is reported both in Hobart and in Popham and in Popham towards the end of the Case there is a remarkable Passage Says that Case If it should not be punishable at the Suit of the King there would be no Remedy for the Party cannot bring an Action because he can be no Witness for himself and it is only known betwixt them two but a Witness for the King he may be to prove his own Receipt of the Letter and the Party's Hand Mr. Justice Powel You need not labour that Point I 'll tell you Mr. Attorney for the Law is very clear in that Point I think if you bring it home to your Case Mr. Attor Gen. Then here 's the Case in short my Lord That my Lords the Bishops have caused to be made and written this Petition they are made Parties to it by setting their Names and this is a continued Act whatsoever is written there is my Lord Archbishop's Writing where-ever it goes as I 'll put you a Case that 's very well known If I take away Goods from a Man in the County of Cumberland and I am found with them in the County of Middlesex it is a continued Act and makes all but one Felony and I shall be Tried here in Middlesex for it If a Man write a thing in one County and it is sent and dispersed in another County that still continues to be his Fact though it may be the first part was not in the same County with the other but suppose all this while that part should not affect my Lord of Canterbury the causing it to be Published does Mr. Justice Powel Do you think Mr. Attorney that writing in one County is such a continued Act that he may be said to write it in another County Mr. Attor Gen. Sir I take it where there is a complicated Crime of Writing and Publishing a Libel and the beginning of it is in one County and the carrying it on is in another that is a continued Act and may be Tried in either County L. C. I. It is all one Act of Libelling as they say Mr. Iust. Holloway In Cases of Felony 't is so taking in one County and being found with the Goods in another it is Felony in either County Mr. Iust. Powel But in that Case they are two Felonies for it is Robbery in the one County and but bare Felony in the other Mr. Sol. Gen. Suppose that my Lords the Bishops Signed this Paper in another County and my Lord Archbishop consents to have it sent into Middlesex is not this a causing it to be published in another County Mr. Iust. Powel Yes it may be if you prove his Consent Mr. Sol. Gen. Then suppose further which may very well consiâ—…t with my Lord Archbishop's Evidence of his not being out of Lambeth in so long time the rest of the Bishops might sign it in Middlesex or it may be in that Place and then they carry it by my Lords consent over hither into this County is not this a causing it to be published the Delivery with his Consent certainly is a Proof of that for our Information goes two ways For Making Contriving Writing and Publishing that 's one And then For causing it to be Made Contrived and Published that 's the other And if I prove that he caused it to be published he may be found Guilty as to that part and not Guilty as to the other for the Information is not so intire but that the King has his choice if the Archbishop had
not signed it or written it but had caused it to be published he may be found guilty of so much But if he be Guilty of any one of these things it is enough and if he be Guilty of none of the other things laid in the Information yet if he be Guilty of causing it to be published by his consenting that the rest of the Bishops should do it that will be enough to maintain this Information Then my Lord is there any Evidence brought against what we have proved That he did not consent Mr. Just. Powel But where was this Consent of his given Mr. Solicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray good Sir give me your Favour I think I am in a plain Case Mr. Serj. Pemberton So you are truly Mr. Sol. Gen. Why good Sir you ought to make out the Locality if you 'l take advantage of it Mr. Serj. Pemberton That 's very well indeed this is the first time I ever heard that Doctrine Mr. Sol. Gen. I cannot help that but certainly the Law is plain we have proved there was such a Fact as this done and they do not go about to prove that it was done elswhere than where we have laid it for if they did their Witnesses would be cross-examined by us and then we know what would become of them then the Truth of the matter would come out Therefore I would make all this constare The Archbishop might be at Lambeth and yet Guilty in Middlesex by his Concurrence with what was done in Middlesex And I say my Lord this is natural upon the Evidence that has been given because when they were interrogated at the Council and confessed the Paper to be theirs they made no such Explanation of their Confession of which they can make any Advantage in their Defence Here has been no Body produced that proves any thing to be done out of Middlesex so that still if he 's Guilty of the Fact proved he must be Guilty in Middlesex Serjeant Baldock And it does not appear in this Case but that my Lord Archbishop might write the same thing in Middlesex tho' he was at Lambeth so long as the Witness speaks of Mr. Just. Powel How do you make out that Brother Serj. Baldock He might do it when he câ—…me over to the Council Sir Rob. Sawyer He must do it after it was presented Serj. Baldock Might he not be so long here on this side the Water as to make such a short thing as this before it was delivered half a quarter of an Hour would have done it L. Ch. Iust. That 's a thing not to be presumed Brother especially since he is proved not to have been in Middlesex for so long together Sir Rob. Sawyer Mr. Serjeant is mightily mistaken for it is not pretended That it was delivered at the time when the Archbishop and my Lords the Bishops were before the Council Mr. Recorder Either the Making and Contriving or the Publishing of this Libel will do upon this Information for they shall be taken to be one continued complicated Act and then the Party may be tryed in either of the Counties as the King will as in the case of Treason it has been over and over again adjudged That if a Man does one Act of Treason in one County and afterwards goes into another County and does another Act of Treason the Jury of either of the Counties may enquire of the Fact done in the other If they then should take those two as several Acts they were several Offences and they may be found Guilty of the one and acquitted of the other but if they are taken as one continued Act they are but one Offence and the Jury of either County may try it If then in this Case the Jury of this County may take notice of the Publication which was here as certainly they may if they will agree as the Law certainly is That the Writing of a Letter will be a sufficient Publication if the matter be Libellous And there are multitudes of Precedents for that and that the bare setting of a Man's Hand has been adjudged to be a Publication Then give me leave my Lord to bring it to a similar Case Suppose a Man write a scandalous Letter from London to a Judge or Magistrate in Exeter and sends it by the Post and the Letter is received from the Post at Exeter and there opened would any Man make a Question whether the Gentleman that sent the Letter may not be indicted and prosecuted for a Libel at Exeter where the Libel was received Mr. Just. Powel There 's no question of that Mr. Recorder that comes not home to the Fact in our Case undoubtedly in the Case that you put the Law is as you said but it is far different from this Case L. Ch. Iust. There 's no Body opposes the Publication but the framing of it where it was made Mr. Recorder Supposing then the Party were at Exeter and he were interrogated before the Magistrate Whether that were his Hand or no and he should own it to be his Hand can any body doubt whether his owning that to be his Hand would be a sufficient Evidence to prove a Publication Mr. Just. Powel But is that any Evidence where it was written Or if it be not proved that it was received at Exeter would that be a Proof of a Publication at Exeter L. Ch. Iust. They do not deny the Publication Sir Rob. Sawyer We do deny that there was any Publication and they have proved no place where it was made Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord we are not for turning my Lords the Bishops out of the way of Proof that is usual in such Cases let them take it if they will That this was contrived and made in Surrey But can they publish it in Middlesex without committing an Offence and that is it we stand upon We are not for laying a greater Load upon my Lords the Bishops than our Proof will answer Sir Rob. Sawyer We thank you for your Complement Mr. Solicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. Is this a fare way of interrupting us when we are speaking Durst any one have served you so when you were in the Kings Service We would make our Duty as easie as we can to my Lords the Bishops and it may be easier than other Men would have made it But my Lord let it be a doubtful case that we cannot tell which County it was made and contrived in if it were made and contrived in another County yet when they brought it into Middlesex there was a Publication in Middlesex and if my Lord of Canterbury consented to it and if he caused it to be published how can any Body ever get him off from that causing of it to be published Here is a Paper that must be supposed to be my Lord Archbishops Paper Now either the World must look upon it to be an Imposture put upon my Lords the Bishops or a real Paper made by them If it were an Imposture
and an Affront put upon the Bishops they ought to make it out for their own Vindication and to prove themselves Innocent If they do that they do well and they ought to have Satisfaction â—…de them by those that have so highly injured them and the King cannot be better pleased I am sure than to find them so But if Men will look one way and act another they must expect to be dealt with accordingly Will any Man that has heard this Evidence and sees that these Gentlemen will not go the right way to work to prove their own Innocence believe them to be not Guilty 'T is plain they contrived it and signed it for can any one imagine that they set their Hands to a Paper that was not formed and contrived by themselves then let it go That this was done in another County and we cannot punish the Writing of it in this County yet still they are Guilty of causing it to be published in this County and for that we may punish them here We will be content with having that found that we have proved which certainly is an Offence Sir Rob. Sawyer We oppose that Sir. Mr. Sol. Gen. You oppose it I know you 'l oppose common Sense we don't speak to you we speak to the Court we are content with what is plain and do not desire to insist upon any strained Construction we say this is Natural Evidence for us If this thing be a Libel as we say it is then the causing it to be published is an Offence The Publication we â—…ay was here in Middlesex and of that there is Clear Evidence because it was found there and came from the King's Hand to whom it was directed and it could not come to the King's Hand out of their Custody without their Consent This we say is a clear Evidence of causing it to be published let the rest go as it will because we will take the easiest part of the Case and not go upon Strains Mr. Serj. Trinder The greatest Question is I think now come to the Publishing L. Ch. Iust. The Court is of Opinion that its coming to the King is a publishing Mr. Justice Powel Ay my Lord if it be proved to be done by them Mr. Serjeant Pemberton Before the Court deliver their Opinion we desire to be heard L. Ch. Iust. Brother you shall be heard in good time but let them make an end on the other side and when the King's Counsel have done we 'l hear you Mr. Serjeant Trinder My Lord upon the Question of Publishing it has been insisted upon and the Court seems to be very much of the same Opinion That the Writing of it is a Publishing That it is without Controversie if the Writing of it fell out to be in Middlesex where the Information is laid but that they would not have to be so by Argument because the Archbishop had kept in at Lambeth so long But suppose that it were so as they would have it that is only as to the Archbishop he being the Writer of it but yet notwithstanding that the other six might subscribe it in Middlesex taking it that there is such a Face in their Argument as they would have it Mr. Sol. Gen. We will lay no greater load on the other six than we do upon my Lord Archbishop and we say they are all Guilty of the Publication in Middlesex Mr. Serjeant Trinder Pray Sir spare me this Paper was in the Archbishops Custody and Power he making of it himself and regularly it could not have come out of his Custody in common Supposition but it must come with his Consent It was afterwards in the Power of the other six they had it to subscribe where the Subscription was non constâ—… they it may â—…e can prove it themselves but I will only deduce this Argument That if it after comes into Middlesex it must be taken by presumption to be subscribed by them there and published it must taken by Presumption so to be Lord Ch. Iust. No Brother we ought not to do any thing by presumption here Mr. Just. Powel No no by no means we must not go upon Presumptions but Proofs L. Ch. Iust. I will not presume it to be made in Middlesex Mr. Serj. Trinder But it is proved to be published in Middlesex Sir Robert Sawyer My Lord with submission there is no Evidence of the Publication Mr. Attor Gen. That the Court is to judge of Sir Rob. Sawyer Pray good my Lord what Instance of a Publication have they given Mr. Sol. Gen. The Court has heard â—…he Evidence we leave it there Sir Rob. Sawyer Was it their owning and acknowledging it was their Hands when the King asked them the Question at the Council-Table Surely the King's Counsel won't pretend that was a Publication when it was done at the King's Command it was certainly the King that published it then and not my Lords the Bishops Mr. Attor Gen. Well said Sir Rob. Sawyer Don't you remember that when Sir Blathwayt said the King gave it to be read and it was shewed to the Bishops L. Ch. Iust. I remember what Evidence Mr. Blathwayt gave of the Passages at the Council-Board very well and I know what Mr. Attorney did press about the Kings promising to take no advantage Mr. Attor Gen. My Lord Mr. Attorney is on the other side he did not press it L. Ch. Iust. Sir Robert Sawyer I mean I beg both your Pardons Gentlemen I think I have done Injury to you both Sir Rob. Sawyer My Lord we say there is no Evidence at all that ever this was sent to the King by the Archbishop or any of my Lords the Bishops And as for the Cases that they have put they might have put five hundred Cases and all nothing to the purpose Mr. Sol. Gen. So they might and done just as others had done before them Sir Rob. Sawyer And so are these for here is the Question We are in a Case where the Publication is that which makes it a Crime Now I would have them if they can put me any such Case and then apply it to this in William's Case the Question is quite otherwise and so in any Case of Treason it must be where-ever there is an Overt Act proved it is the Treasonable Intention and the ill Mind of the Traytor that is the Crime and the Treason the Overt Act is only to be the Evidence of it In that Case of Williams with submission my Lord the Publication was not at all necessary but the very secretest Act that could be done by him if it were an Act is an evidence of the Mind and so the sending of the Book to the King himself though no body else did see it was an Evidence of the Crime of Treason yet it could not be called a Pâ—…blication But in the other Case of Sir Baptist Hicks which was in the Star-Chamber about sending a Letter of Challenge it was plainly resolved that it was no Publication
the County of Middlesex and therefore the Jury must find them not guilty Mr. Attor Gen. I 'le put you but one case my Lord a Man has an opportunity secretly to deliver a Libel into the King's hands when no Body is by and so there can be no proof of the delivery Mr. Iust. Powel 'T is a dangerous thing Mr. Attorney on the other side to convict People of Crimes without proof Mr. Attorney General But shall a Man be permitted thus to affront the King and there be no way to punish it Lord Chief Iustice. Yes there will sure but it will be a very strange thing if we should go and presume that these Lords did it when there is no sort of Evidence of it 't is that which I do assure you I cannot do we must proceed according to Evidence and forms and methods of Law they may think what they will of me but I always declare my mind according to my Conscience Mr. S. Trinder But as to that other point whether their owning of it be a publication has not been particularly spoke to Lord Chief Iustice. Mr. Attorney and Mr. Solicitor if there were enough to raise doubt in the Court so as to leave it to the Jury I would summ up the Evidence Mr. Solicit Gen. My Lord we know it is with the Court these Lords insisted upon it that it was a great while in their hands but it seems as far as our Evidence has gone hitherto their Confession went no farther than that it was their Paper and we must not extend their Confession further than it was but I think we shall offer a fair Evidence that they did deliver it in the County of Middlesex Lord Ch. Iust. Indeed indeed you ought to have gone to this Mr. Solicitor before the Court gave their Opinions Mr. Solicit Gen. Pray call Mr. Blathwayt again Mr. Blathwayt called Lord Ch. Iust. Mr. Solicitor unless you are sure that Mr. Blathwait is a Witness to the publication 't is but spending the Courts time to no purposâ—… to call him Mr. Solicit Gen. We are sure of nothing my Lord but we must make use of our Witnesses according to our Instructions in our Briefs Then Mr. Blathwait appeared Mr. Attor Gen. Mr. Blathwait you were sworn before Mr. Blathwait Yes Sir. Mr. Attor Gen. Your were present when this Paper or Petition was dell vered by the King at the Council-Board Mr. Blathwait Yes I was so Sir. Mr. Attor Gen. Do you remember any thing of the Bishops acknowledging their delivery of it to the King. Mr. Sol. Gen. Mr. Blathwait I would ask you was there any mention or discourse with my Lords the Bishops how that Paper came into the King's hands was there any mention of what it was done for upon the account of Religion or how Mr. Blathwait I don't remember any thing of that Mr. Solicitor at which there was a great Laughter Lord Ch. Iust. Pray let us have no laughing it is not decent can't all this be done quietly without noise pray Mr. Blathwait let me ask you do you remember there was any discourse how that writing came into the Kings hands Mr. Blathwait I received it from the Kings hands and I know it was presented to him by my Lords the Bishops Lord Ch. Iust. How do you know it was presented to the King. Mr. Blathwait I heard the King say so several times Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray mind my question Sir first I ask you who produced the Paper at the Council-Table Mr. Blathwait The King. Mr. Sol. Gen. What said the Bishops when that Paper was shewed them Mr. Blathwait Then as I remember they were asked whether that was the Paper that they delivered to the King Mr. Sol. Gen. Then what said the Bishops Mr. Blathwait They at first scrupled to answer and they said it might be made use of to their prejudice if they owned it Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mr. Blathwait consider again was that the question put to my Lords the Bishops whether that was the Paper that was presented by them to the King Mr. Blathwait I do think to the best of my remembrance that my Lord Chancellor did ask them to that purpose I cannot speak to the very words Mr. Sol. Gen. And upon this what answer did they make Mr. Blathwait My Lords the Bishops scrupled to answer the first and second time as I told you before but they did own it was the Petition that they presented to the King to the best of my remembrance Mr. Sol. Gen. Did the Archbishop do any thing to own it Mr. Blathwait Yes both my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury and the rest of the Bishops did own all the same thing Mr. Sol. Gen. Was this done at Whitehall Mr. Blathwait Yes at the Council-Table L. Ch. Iust. Pray recollect your self and consider what you say did they own that that was the Paper they delivered to the King Mr. Serj. Pemb. Pray my Lord give us leave to ask a question to clear this matter was the question put to them Whether it was the Paper that they delivered or whether it were their hands that were to it Mr. Blathwait My Lord I do not so exactly recollect the words L. Ch. Iust. But pray tell us if you can what the question was Mr. Blathwait My Lord I do not remember the very words but I think if Mr. Serjeant Pemberton be pleased to repeat his question I shall give him a satisfactory answer as well as I can Mr. Serj. Pemberton Sir that which I ask you is this Whether the question that was put to my Lords the Bishops at that time was Whether this was the Paper that they deliver'd to the King or whether those were their hands that was to it Mr. Blathwait My Lord I did always think that it was a plain Case that that was the Paper that they delivered to the King and my Lords the Bishops did never deny but that they gave it to the King and I had it from the King's hands L. Ch. Iust. But we must know from you if you can tell us what the question was that was put to my Lords the Bishops were they asked Whether those were their hands that were to that paper or was it Whether they delivered that paper to the King Mr. Blathwait As to the first part that they owned 't was their hands that I am sure of but as to the other I do not remember what the words were At which there was a great shout Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mr. Blathwait recollect your self you say the King produced it Mr. Blathwait Yes Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember that the King asked them any question upon the producing of it Mr. Blathwait My Lord Chancellor asked them if those were not their hands to the Petition Mr. Sol. Gen. Was there any other matter in discourse whether that was the paper that was delivered by them to the King Mr. Blathwait I cannot so positively say what were the words that my Lord
day L. President Yes they were Mr. Soll. Gen. Was this before they appeared in Council L. President Yes it was several days before Mr. Soll. Gen. Then I think now my Lord the matter is very plain Mr. Iust. Allibone Did they acquaint your Lordship that their business was to deliver a Petition to the King. L. President Yes they did Mr. Soll. Gen. And they would have had my Lord read it he says Mr. Attorn Gen. And this was the same day that they did go in to the King. L. President The very same day and I think the same hour for it could not be much longer L. Ch. Iust. Now it is upon you truly it will be presumed to be the same unless that you prove that you delivered another Pray my Lord did you look into the Petition L. President No I refused it I thought it did not concern me Mr. Iust. Powel Did you see them deliver it to the King my Lord L. President I was not in the Room when it was delivered Mr. Iust. Powel They did open their Petition to your Lordship did they L. President They offered me to read it but I did refuse L. Ch. Iust. Will you ask my Lord President any Question you that are for the Defendants Sir Rob. Sawyer No my Lord. Mr. Sol. Gen. Then my Lord we must beg one thing for the sake of the Jury if your Lordship can turn your self a little this way and deliver the Evidence you have given over again that they may hear it L. President My Lord I will repeat it as near as I can I think I shall not vary the Sense The Bishops of St. Asaph and Chichester came to my Office I do not know just the day when but it was to let me know that they came in the Name of the Archbishop and four other of their Brethren Is it necessary I should name them L. Ch. Iust. Do it my Lord if you can L. President They were the Bishops of Ely Bath and Wells Bristol and Peterborough they came to let me know in the Name of the Arch-bishop those four and themselves that they had a Petition to deliver to the King if he would give them leave and desired to know of me which was the best way to do it I told them I would know the King's Pleasure and bring them word again they offered me their Petition to read but I did not think it fit for me to do it and therefore I refused and would not read it but I went immediately to the King and acquainted his Majesty with it and he commanded me to let them know they might come when they would which I immediately did they said they would go and speak with some of their Brethren that were not far off in the mean time I gave order that they should be admitted when they came and they did in a little time return and went first into the Bed-Chamber and then into the Room where the King was Mr. Sol. Gen. And this was before they came and appeared at the Council L. President Yes it was Mr. Pollixfen Your Lordship did not read any thing of the Petition L. President No Sir I did not I refused it Mr. Pollixfen Nor does your Lordship know what Petition they did deliver to the King. L. President I did not know any thing of it from them then L. Ch. Iust. Now you may make your Observations upon this two hours hen now we shall hear what Mr. Finch had â—…her to offer I suppose Then my Lord President went 〈◊〉 Mr. Sol. Gen. I think now it is very plain L. Ch. Iust. Truly I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tell you there was a great presumption before but there is a greater now and I think I shall leave it with some effect to the Jury I cannot see but that here is enough to put the Proof upon you they came to the Lord President and asked him how they might deliver a Petition to the King he told them he would go and see what the King said to it they would have had him read their Petition but he refused it he comes and tells them the King said they might come when they would then those two that came to my Lord President went and gathered up the other four the Arch-bishop indeed was not there but they six came and my Lord President gave Direction they should be let in and they did go into the Room where the King was now this with the King 's producing the Paper and their owning it at the Council iâ—… such a Proof to me as I think will be Evidence to the Jury of the Publication Mr. Pollixfen Then my Lord thus far they only can go the Arch-bishop was not there and so there is no Evidence against him Mr. Sol. Gen. As to the Writing we have given Proof against him for it is all his Hand Mr. Pollixfen That still is in another County and there is nothing proved to be done by my Lord Arch-Bishop in Middlesex and next for the other six Lords my Lord President does not say that this is the Petition that they said they had to deliver to the King nor did he see them deliver any thing to the King but that is left still doubtful and under your Judgment so that it stands upon Presumption not upon Proof that this is the same and left under Consideration Mr. Attor Gen. Then we will leave it fairly to the Jury upon this Fact. Mr. Pollixfen If so then we desire to be heard in our Defence Sir Rob. Sawyer May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury you have heard this Charge which Mr. Attorny has been pleased to make against my Lords the Bishops and that is this That they did conspire to diminish the Royal Authority and Regal Prerogative Power and Government of the King and to avoid the Order of Council and in prosecution of this they did falsely maliciously and seditiously make a Libel against the King under pretence of a Petition and did publish the same in the King's presence This Gentlemen is a very heinous and heavy Charge but you see how short their Evidence is The Evidence they bring forth is only that my Lords the Bishops presented the Paper to the King in the most private and humble manner they could that which they have been so many hours a proving and which they cry up to be as strong an Evidence as ever was given proves it to be the farthest from Sedition in the doing of it that can be and you see what it is it is a Petition to be relieved against an Order of Council which they conceive they were aggrieved by they indeed do not deal fairly with the Court nor with us in that they do not set it forth that it was a Petition L. Ch. Iust. That was over-ruled before Sir Rob. Sawyer I do not insist upon it now so much an Exception to the Information as I do to the Evidence they set this forth to be
are Sir Sam. Astrey There is the Clerk of the Records of the Tower Mr. Halstead will read it very well in French or English. Then Mr. Halstead was sworn to interpret the Records into English according to the best of his Skill and Knowledge but not reading very readily a true Copy of the Record in English follows out of the Rolls of Parliament in the 15th Year of King Richard the Second Numero Primo FRiday the Morrow of All Souls which was the first Day of this Parliament holden at Westminster in the fifteenth Year of the Reign of our Lord King Richard the Second after the Conquest the Reverend Father in God the Archbishop of York Primate and Chancellor of England by the King's Commandment being present in Parliament pronounced and declared very nobly and wisely the Cause of the Summons of this Parliament And said First That the King would that holy Church principally and afterwards the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and also the Cities and Burroughs should have and enjoy their Liberties and Franchises as well as they had them and enjoyed them in the Time of his Noble Progenitors Kings of England and also in his own Time. And afterwards said The Summons of this Parliament was principally for three Occasions The first Occasion was To ordain how the Peace and Quiet of the Land which have heretofore been greatly blemished and disturbed as well by Detraction and Maintenance as otherwise might be better holden and kept and the Laws better executed and the King's Commands better obeyed The second Occasion was To ordainâ—… and see how the Price of Wools which is beyond measure lessened and impaired might be better amended and inhaunced And also That in case the War should begin again at the End of the present Truce to wit at the Assumption of our Lady next coming to ordain and see how and whereby the said War may be maintained at the least Charge of the People And the third Occasion was touching the Statutes of Provisors To ordain and see how our Holy Father might have that which to him belongs and the King that which belongs to him and to his Crown according unto that Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar ' s and unto God the things which are God's Then the other Record of Richard the Second was read as follows out of the Rolls of Parliament the fifteenth Year of King Richard the Second No 8 Be it remembred touching the Statute of Provisors That the Commons for the great Confidence which they have in the Person of our Lord the King and in his most excellent Knowledge and in the great Tenderness which he hath for his Crown and the Rights thereof and also in the noble and high Discretions of the Lords have assented in full Parliament that our said Lord the King by Advice and Assent of the said Lords may make such Sufferance touching the said Statute as shall seem to him reasonable and profitable until the next Parliament so as the said Statute be not repealed in no Article thereof And that all those who have any Benefices by force of the said Statute before this present Parliament and also That all those to whom any Aid Tranquility or Advantage is accrued by virtue of the said Statute of the Benefices of Holy Church of which they were heretofore in Possession as well by Presentation or Collation of our Lord the King as of the Ordinaries or Religious Persons whatsoever or by any other manner or way whatsoever may freely have and enjoy them and peaceably continue their Possession thereof without being ousted thereof or any ways challenged hindred molested disquieted or grieved hereafter by any Provisors or others against the Form and Effect of the Statute aforesaid by reason of the said Sufferance in any time to come And moreover That the said Commons may disagree at the next Parliament to this Sufferance and fully resort to the said Statute if it shall seem good to them to do it With Protestation That this Assent which is a Novelty and has not been done before this time be not drawn into Example or Consequence for Time to come And they prayed our Lord the King that the Protestation might be entred of Record in the Roll of the Parliament And the King granted and commanded to do it Mr. S. Levinz Now my Lord we will go on This was in Richard the Second's Time And a Power is given by the Commons to the King with the Assent of the Lords to dispense but only to the next Parliament with a Power reserved to the Commons and to disagree to it and retract that Consent of theirs the next Parliament Sir Geo. Treby The Statute of Provisors was and is a Penal Law and concerning Ecclesiastical Matters too viz. The Collating and Presenting to Archbishopricks Bishopricks Benefices and Dignities of the Church And in this Record now read the Parliament give the King a limited Power and for a short Time to dispense with that Statute But to obviate all Pretence of such a Power 's being inherent in the Crown as a Prerogative they declare 1. That it was a Novelty that is as much as to say That the King had no such Power before 2. That it should not be drawn into Example that is to say That he should have no such Power for the future Mr. S. Levinz Now we will go on to the Records mentioned in the Petition those in the last King's Time in 1662 and 1672 and that in this King's Time in 1685. Where is the Journal of the House of Lords Mr. Walker sworn L. C. I. Is that the Book of the House of Lords Mr. Walker It is the Journal of the House of Lords L. C. I. Is it kept by you Mr. Walker Yes my Lord. L. C. I. Where is it kept Mr. Walker In the usual place here in Westminster Mr. Soll. Gen. What is that Mr. S. Levinz It is the Journal of the House of Lords But my Lord there is one thing that is mentioned in the last Record that is read which is worth your Lordship's and the Jury's Observation That it is declared a Novelty and a Protestation that it should not be drawn into Precedent for the future L. C. I. That has been observed Brother Let us hear your Record read Clerk read Die Mercurii 18 o die Februarii 1662. His Majesty was present this Day sitting in the Regal Crown and Robes the Peers being likewise in their Robes The King gave Order to the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod to signifie to the House of Commons his Pleasure that they presently come up and attend His Majesty with their Speaker who being present His Majesty made this Speech following My Lords and Gentlemen I Am very glad to meet you here again having thought the Time long since we parted and often wished you had been together to help me in some Occasions which have fallen out I need not repeat them unto you you have all had
intrusted in him to the Peace and Establishment of the Church of England and the ease of all his Subjects in general Neither does he pretend to the Right of Suspending any Laws wherein the Properties Rights or Liberties of any of his Subjects are concerned nor to alter any thing in the established Doctrine or Discipline of the Church of England But his only design in this was to take off the Penalties the Statutes inflicted upon Dissenters which he believes when well considered of you your selves would not wish executed according to the Rigour and Letter of the Law neither hath he done this with any thought of avoiding or precluding the Advice of his Parliament and if any Bill shall be offered which shall appear more proper to attain the aforesaid Ends and secure the Peace of the Church and Kingdom when tendred in due manner to him he will shew how readily he will Concur in all ways that shall appear good for the Kingdom Sir Rob. Sawyer Turn to the 26th of February 1672. Clerk read Die Mercurii xxij February 1672. Mr. Powle Reports from the Committee appointed to consider of an Answer to return to his Majesties last Message upon the debate of the House an Answer agreed by the Committee and drawn up and put into Writing which he read in his place and then delivered the same in at the Clerks Table where it was twice read and is as followeth viz. Most Gracious Sovereign WE your Majesties most Humble and Loyal Subjects the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in this present Parliament Assembled do render to your most Sacred Majesty our most dutiful Thanks for that to our unspeakable Comfort your Majesty has been pleased so often to reiterate unto us those gracious Promises and Assurances of maintaining the Religion now Established and the Liberties and Properties of your People and we do not in the least Measure doubt but that your Majesty had the same gracious Intention in giving Satisfaction to your Subjects by your Answer to our last Petition and Address Yet upon a serious Consideration thereof We find that the said Answer is not sufficient to clear the Apprehensions that may justly remain in the minds of your People by your Majesties having claimed a Power to suspend Penal Statutes in Matters Ecclesiastical and which your Majesty does still seem to assert in the said Answer to be intrusted in the Crown and never questioned in the Reigns of any of your Ancestors Wherein we humbly conceive your Majesty has been very much Misinformed Since no such Power ever was claimed or exercised by any of your Majesties Predâ—…ssors and if it should be admitted might tend to the interrupting the free Course of the Laws and altering the Legislative Power which hath always been acknowledged to reside in your Majesty and your two Houses of Parliament We therefore with an unanimous Consent become again most humble Suiters unto your Sacred Majesty That you would be pleased to give us a full and satisfactory Answer to our said Petition and Address and that your Majesty would take such effectual order that the Proceedings in this Matter may not for the future be drawn into Consequence or Example The Answer to his Majesties Message was again read by Paragraphs and the several Paragraphs to the last were upon the question severally agreed The last Paragraph being read and the Question being put that the Word unanimous should stand in the Paragraph The House divided The Noes go out Tellers Lord St. Iohn Mr. Vaughan for the Yeas 180. Sir Richard Temple Sir Philip Howard for the Noes 77. And so it was resolved in the Affirmative The Question being put to agree to the Paragraph it was resolved in the Affirmative Resolved c. That the whole Address be agreed to as it was brought in by the Committee Sir Rob. Sawyer Now turn to the Lords Journal and there your Lordship will see that the King does Communicate this Address to the Lords and desires their Advice Read the 1st of March 1672. Clerk reads Die Sabbati primo die Marcii 1672. His Majesty this Day made a short Speech as follows My Lords You know that at the Opening of this Session I spoke here to your Satisfaction it has notwithstanding begotten a greater disquiet in the House of Commons than I could have imagined I received an Address from them which I looked not for and I made them an Answer that ought to have contented them but on the contrary they have made me a Reply of such a nature that I cannot think fit to proceed any further in this Matter without your Advice I have commanded the Chancellor to acquaint you with all the Transactions wherein you will find both me and your selves highly concerned I am sensible for what relates to me and I assure you my Lords I am not less so for the Priviledg and the Honour of this House Afterwards the Lord Chancellor read the several Papers of Addresses of the House of Commons and his Majesties Answer thereunto and opened his Majesties proceedings upon them The Address of the House of Commons was read Sir Rob. Sawyer Pass over that you have read it already Clerk reads The next his Majesties Answer to the Address of the House of Commons was read as follows Sir Rob. Sawyer That hath been read too Clerk reads Then was read the Reply of the House of Commons to his Majesties Answer as followeth Mr. Finch You have read that likewise Clerk reads Upon this it is ordered that the Lord Treasurer Duke of Buckingham Earl of Bridgwater Earl of Northampton Earl of Bristol Earl of Berks Earl of Bullingbrook and the Earl of Anglesy do forthwith withdraw and consider what humble Thanks is fit to be given to his Majesty for his great Favour in communicating this Business to this House and report the same And accordingly the said Lords Committees did withdraw themselves for that purpose The Lords being returned the Duke of Buckingham reported what the Committee had prepared to present to his Majesty by way of Thanks which was read as followeth We the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled do unanimously present to your Sacred Majesty Our most humble Thanks for having been pleased to Communicate to us what has passed between your Majesty and the House of Commons whereby you have graciously offered us the means of shewing our Duty to your Majesty and of asserting the Ancient Just Rights and Priviledges of the House of Peers The Question being put whether to agree with the Committee It was resolved in the Affirmative Ordered that his Majesty be desired that his Speech and the Papers read this day may be entred into the Journal Book of this House The Lord Treasurer the Duke of Buckingham and the Lord Chamberlain are appointed to attend his Majesty presently to know his pleasure what time and place this whole House shall wait upon him to present the humble Thanks of this House for his great Favour shewed this day
Parliament is High Treason Mr. Sol. Gen. I carry it not so far Sir we have a Gracious Prince and my Lords the Bishops find it so by this Prosecution But what says that Case It is Printed in 3 Books in Noy 100. in Moor 375. and in Mr. Just. Cro. 371. says that Case The King may make Orders and Constitutions in Matters Ecclesiastical Mr. Iust. Powel But how will you apply that Case to this in hand Mr. Sollicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. I will apply it by and by Sir. I would first shew what it is there is a Convention of the greatest Men in the Kingdom Mr. Iust. Powel Indeed Mr. Sollicitor you shoot at Rovers Mr. Sol. Gen. There iâ—… the Lord Privy Seal the Archbishop of Canterbury and a great many others it is the greatest Aâ—…embly we meet with in our Books and all of them are of this Opinion That the King may make Orders and Constitutions in Matters Ecclesiastical My Lord there is another Authority and that is from the Statute 1 Eliz. which erected the High Commission Court and that Statute was not Introductory of a New Law but Declaratory of the Old Law The King by his Proclamation declares his Sense to do such and such a thing the Court and all Persons there give their Judgment and Opinion upon that Statute That they looked upon it as the grossest thing and the soulest affront to the Prince for any Man to bring into Question that Power of the King in Matters Ecclesiastical 't is said to be a very High Crime Why then my Lord what is done in this Case Mr. Iust. Powel Mr. Sollicitor Pray when you are applying apply that other part of the Case too which says that it was a heinous Offence to raise a Rumor that the King did intend to grant a general Toleration and is there any Law since that has changed it Mr. Sollicitor Mr. Sol. Gen. In the main Judgment goes another way as for that part it was personal to the Prince that then was of whom they had Scandalously reported that he intended to do such a thing they look'd upon it as a Scandal to King Iames that it was a sowing Sedition and stirring up People against the Government and that will come up to our Case for as some Men do it on the right side others do it on the left and whoever he be that endeavours to bring a dislike of the King in the People that is moving Sedition against the Prince but that is personal to the Prince himself and does not go to his Successors Now my Lord I come to that which is very plain from the Case of De Libellis Famosis If any Person in any Paper have Slandered the Government you are not to Examine who is in the Right and who is in the Wrong whether what they said to be done by the Government be Legal or no but whether the party have done such an Act. If the King have a Power for still I keep to that to Issue forth Proclamations to his Subjects and to make Orders and Constitutions in matters Ecclesiastical if he do Issue forth his Proclamation and make an Order upon the matters within his Power and Prerogative and if any one would come and bring that Power in Question I say that is Sedition and you are not to Examine the Legality or Illegality of the Order or Proclamation and that I think is very plain upon that Case in the Fifth Report for it says If a Person does a thing that is Libellous you shall not Examine the Fact but the Consequence whether it tended to stir up Sedition against the Publick or to stir up Strife between Man and Man in the Case of private Persons as if a Man should say of a Judge He has taken a Bribe and I will prove it this is not to be sent in a Letter but they must take a regular way to Prosecute it according to Law. If it be so in the Case of an Inferior Magistrate what must it be in the Case of a King to come to the Kings Face and tell him as they do here that he has Acted Illegally doth certainly sufficiently prove the matter to be Libellous What do they say to King they say and admit that they have an aversness for the Declaration and they tell him from whence that aversness doth proceed and yet they insinuate that they had an inclination to Gratify the King and Embrace the Dissenters that were as averse to them as could be with due tenderness when it should be settled by Parliament and Convocation Pray what hath their Convocation to do in this matter L. Ch. Iust. Mr. Sollicitor General I will not interrupt you but pray come to the Business before us Shew us that this is in diminution of the Kings Prerogative or that the King ever had such a Prerogative Mr. Sol. Gen. I will my Lord I am observing what it is they say in this Petition They tell the King it is inconsistent with their Honor Prudence and Conscience to do what he would have them to do and if these things be not reflective upon the King and Government I know not what is this is not in a way of Judicature possibly it might have been allowable to Petition The King to put it into a course of Justice whereby it may be Tryed but alas there is no such thing in this matter It is not their desire to put it into any Method for Tryal and so it comes in the Case De Libellis Famosis for by this way they make themselves Judges which no Man by Law is permitted to do My Lords the Bishops have gone out of the way and all that they have offered does not come home to justify them and therefore I take it under Favour that we have made it a good Case for the King we have proved what they have done and whether this be Warrantable or not is the Question Gentlemen that you are to try The whole Case appears upon Record the Declaration and Petition are set forth and the Order of the King and Council When the Verdict is brought in they may move any thing what they please in arrest of Judgment They have had a great deal of Latitude and taken a great deal of Liberty But truly I apprehend not so very pertinently But I hope we have made a good Case of it for the King and that you Gentlemen will give us a Verdict Mr. Iust. Holloway Mr. Sollicitor there is one thing I would seign be satisfied in you say the Bishops have no Power to Petition the King. Mr. Soll. Gen. Not out of Parliament Sir. Mr. Iust. Holloway Pray give me leave Sir Then the King having made such a Declaration of a General Toleration and Liberty of Conscience and afterwards he comes and requires the Bishops to disperse this Declaration this they say out of a tenderness of Conscience they cannot do because they apprehend it contrary to Law and contrary to their