on the other parte séeing the testimonies are so plaine and many what meaneth maister Harding to make this any vntruthe But what dareth he not doe to make vp his number that affirmeth this one vntruthe fiue times Now by the way least I shold séeme to speake against the vse of the sunday I say and professe that we cā not vse it too reuerently Anathasius saith that the sabboth of the Iewes was by Christ turned into our sunday but whether that were so or no it resteth vpon Athasius aucthoritie it may be well thought that it is true Christ will haue vs gather together in his name And S. Iohn calleth it the Lords day S. Luke and S Paule the first day of the weke in which the Apostles assembled the people therfore thou art bound to giue all obedience and holinesse vnto the Lorde on that day But take héede now thou deceiue not thy self Looke not after any licentiousnesse on the munday thinke not that God more accompteth of one day than other As on sunday thou commest into the congregation and shewest thy selfe thankfull vnto the Lord for his benefites so on euery day thou must shew thy selfe thankfull and shew the same obedience in testimony of thy conscience which on the sunday thou shewest in open vsage and thus thou shalt kéepe holy the sabboth day The B. of Saris. S. Ambrose saith euery weeke we must celebrate the oblation althoughe not euery day vnto straungers yet vnto the inhabitants at least twise a weeke Harding The .134 vntruthe This place is altogether falsified Dering This vntruthe may be hardly verified if the place be altogether falsified But maister Harding dothe so often speake vntruely that now we may not beleue him w tout good proofe Let vs sée then what he saith S. Ambrose Omni hebdomada offerendum est etiam si non quotidie peregrinis incolis tamen vel bis in hebdomada These words M. Iuel dothe Englishe as before appeareth This translation saith maister Harding is altogether false But why saith he so Let him bar distinctions and proue it if he can Undoubtedly if snow be not black this interpretation is true but why dothe maister Harding finde fault wiih it Thus he saith offerre peregrinis is to offer for straungers not to straungers and why is it so forsoothe by this rule all manner of verbes put acquisitiuely that is to say with this signe for after them wil haue a datiue case it might haue pleased him to haue alleaged his rule truely then it should haue bene thus hauing this signe to or for after them so notwithstanding this rule yet the interpretation had bene good but graunt the rule what a reason is this all verbes that haue this signe for after them require a datiue case Ergo offerre peregrinis is to offer for straungers He might as well conclude Ergo loquor tibi is to speake for thée or dare tibi to giue it for thée But M. Harding why would not this rule haue serued héere verbes compounded with these propositions prae con sub ob in and inter will haue a datiue case Well may we haue some opinion of our Louanists English but sure their Logicke and their Latine is but very base M. Dorman alleaging in his boke this text of S. Iohn Diabolus est mendax pater eius doth English it thus the diuel is a lier and so was his father before him Was he wel in his wit or was he yet a dreaming or is his Diuinitie so slender that he knoweth not who is the Deuils father Sure ignorance may not excuse a man that speaketh blasphemie the Deuil hath no father only God created him an Angell Erasmus fearing such sléeping Diuines doth turne it thus eius rei pater and father of that thing If M. Dorman had consulted with him and not so sodenly become of a iangling lawyer an vngodly Diuine he wold haue written more aduisedly but as hath bene héeretofore aptly obiected to him he gate vpon the bridge and was made a bacheler and so by muche haste ouershot himselfe muche like as maister Harding doth héere who Englisheth offerre peregrinis to offer for straungers Alowe this for good Latine and his distinctions for good reason and then goe yoke Foxes and milke hée Goates his vntruthe shall rise at his owne pleasure The B. of Saris. The .28 Diuision Here Master Harding notably betrayeth him selfe laying forth for a countenaunce a fiue of Chrysostoms words and the same nothing to the matter hewing and mangling them as he listeth best Harding The .135 vntruthe Those words be to the matter The .136 vntruthe I mangle them not Dering What M. Harding meaneth by this vntruth I know not vnlesse it be as M. Iuel saith notably to betray himselfe His purpose is to proue priuate Masse as all men doe know but these words do not proue it as he himself confesseth Reioind fol. 206. the conclusion of these is plaine therfore these words are not to the purpose Neither shal this other vntruth néede any long answer He can do little y t cannot say nay M. Iuels Replie doth wel sufficiently proue it M. Hardings gainsaying is not sufficient for an vntruthe Read the Replie Fo. 65. The B. of Saris. Chrysostome saith this sacrifice is but one bicause it hath relation vnto that one sacrifice of Christ. Harding The .137 vntruthe He rendreth no suche cause Dering Bicause M. Hard. cā not blame the allegation he findeth fault w t M. Iuels meaning and saith S. Chrysostom giueth no such cause But whether he giueth any such or no not M. Hardīgs vnderstāding but Chrysostoms words must be the iudge thus he writeth Quo modo vna est hostia non multae Quia semel oblata est oblata est in sancta sāctorū Hoc autē sacrificiū exemplar est illius How is it one oblation not many He answereth bicause it was once offred it was offred into y e holy place but this sacrifice is an example of that These are his very words héere he speaketh plain the cause why we sacrificing or cōmunicating in sundry places haue but one sacrifice or cōmunion is bicause our sacrifice is an exāple of y e one sacrifice of Christ. If M. Harding can find any other vnderstanding of these words then sure his maner of vnderstāding is to make words sound what him list But vnderstād he how and what he wil Chrysostoms words are plaine Ther are many places in the olde doctors which teach the very same but it is néedelesse to reherse them when our sauior Christ saith Do this in my remembrāce Except M. Harding wil haue no relation betwene the thing and the remembrāce of the thing what meaneth he to make this vntruthe The B. of Saris. Chrisostome saith this sacrifice is an example of that Harding The .138 vntruthe Chrysostome saith not so that this is an example of that this place is fowly corrupt Dering In the
then nourished with the kings prouision But that prouision Claudius made in the great famine ▪ the .4 yere of his raigne which was the yeare of our Lord .46 Againe immediatly after the scripture mēcioneth the death of Herode But Herode was made king in the first yeare of Caligula and raigned 7. yeare so he died in the .4 yeare of Claudius And consequently as is said the .46 yeare of our Lorde Peter being now in prison at Ierusalem and thus the seconde time that Peter is mencioned to be in Ierusalem is the .46 yeare of Christ. Afterward when the Apostles helde the councell in Ierusalem that it was the .48 yeare of our Lord it is proued by S. Paule who after he had mentioned his conuersion and his first going to Ierusalem whereof we spake before he saith thus Then after .14 yeres I went vp again to Ierusalem So it was the .48 yeare of our Lord this being .14 yeare after his conuersion and he conuerted in the .35 of our Lorde and thus it is proued that in the yeares of our Lord .35.38.46.48 Peter was in Ierusalē Now it resteth to proue that in the meane space Peter came not to Rome That he was not at Rome betwene the .35 and the .38 yeare I haue this profe In the yeare of our Lorde .37 Pilate wrote his letter◠vnto Tiberius the Emperor of Christ and of his doctrine and how the Iewes accompted him a God whereby the Emperoure was so moued that he wold nedes make Christ a God in Rome ▪ If Peter had bene in Rome Pilates letters had not ben necessary The Emperor should haue had better instruction Thus in those three yeares Peter was not in Rome Betwene the .38 yere and the .46 yeare they say suche is their impudencie that Peter was Bishop all the while at Antioche If it be so then by their owne confession he was not at Rome But the scripture is plain he was neither at Antioche nor yet at Rome And howe these 7. yeares are passed marke and thou shalt see In the beginning of these .7 yeares Peter goeth forth a preaching First into all Iury Galile and Samaria which wold require some cōtinuance Afterward he goeth vp to the saints at Lidda and there tarieth From thence he goeth to Ioppe and there tarieth dies multos a long while From thence he goth to Caesarea and ther couerted Cornelius the first gentile that euer he conuerted as is plain by the scriptures then he abideth certain dayes at Caesarea all this well nigh .400 miles from Antioche and now for profe he maketh no hast to Antioche he commeth home againe to Ierusalem where he is againe ioyned with the Apostles And now the Apostle heare word that certaine gentiles at Antioche are conuerted not by Peter but by the disciples that fled when Steuen was stoned Act. 7.60 8.1 Well did the holy ghost here name them that preached this while at Antioche or else here had ben some coloure for Peters bishoprike But marke further when the Apostles heare this to confirme the gentiles they send to Antioche But vvhome sende they Peter Sure they vvoulde haue done had he then bene their bishop but Peter abideth still in Ierusalem and Barnabas is sent to Antioche where he abideth after goth in to Tarsus to Paule from thēce they come againe bothe to Antioche and there tary afterwarde one whole yeare About this time saith the scripture Peter was put in prison which was as is proued the yeare of our Lord .46 And that he continued in Ierusalem euer since Barnabas was sent to Antioche we haue this coniecture When he was deliuered out of prison and knockt at Maries dores Rhoade the maide knewe him by his voice And so well that the Disciples said she was madde or else it was Peters angell Yet were the thing neuer so incredible she said she was sure it was euen he This perfecte knowledge of a mannes voyce required some continuaunce of acquaintaunce And thus we are come to the .7 yeare of his bishoprike of Antioche in which time he yet neuer came at Antioche Nowe the yeare of our Lord .46 the .4 of Claudius he goeth from Antioche to Rome and there is bishop .25 yeares 2. months .8 dayes from the .16 of Ianuary to the .24 of March Suche accompt I trow they make that tell vs how many mile it is to heauen But be it so he is gone out of the prisone in Ierusalem .2000 mile of to Rome to be made bishop If the story of dame Ioane were so incredible as this maister Harding vvith some countenaunce might haue written against it But let vs go foreward In the yeare of our Lorde .48 notwithstanding this posting to Rome he is yet at Ierusalem And from hēceforth that he ment not to goe to Rome but kepe his promise that he would continue among the Iewes we haue this profe First his othe where Iames Peter and Iohn doe sweare vnto Paule and Barnabas that they would execute their Apostleships among the Iewes Which sure Peter woulde not haue done if he had thought to haue gone to Rome and all the Papists in the world shall neuer be able to ansvver it iangle hovv they vvil that Peter vvas bishop of Rome He vvas not he ment it not he kept his promisse Paule calleth him the Apostle of circumcision He vvas aftervvarde among the Ievves at Antioche he vvryteth ▪ his Epistle to the Ievves that vvere straungers and scattered abroade in Asia euen as Iames dothe to the tvvelue Tribes scattered among the nations and Iohn to them that had heard and seene from the beginning vvhich vvere the Ievves Thus did those Apostles minde their promise though vve talke of bishopprikes vve knovve not vvhat But bicause there are yet three and twenty yeares behinde let vs as vve may examine them by the scriptures In the Actes vve read that Priscilla and Aquila and all the residue of the Ievves vvere banished out of Rome But this vvas done the .9 yeare of Claudius Anno Domini .51 When now Peter should haue bene more than .5 yeare bishop in Rome Thus yll may this fable agree vvith the scriptures of God But let vs examine it further About six yeares after this and the beginning of the raigne of Nero Paule wryteth his Epistle to the Romaines as appeareth for that he then caried vp to Ierusalem for the pore saints there abiding suche distribution as they of Macedonia and Achaia had gathered which was a little before Paules last going to Ierusalem as most writers agree in the last yeare of Claudius And for profe it was so now al things are quiet at Rome Paule saluteth Priscilla and Aquila which in the .9 of Claudius were bothe banished and the Actes doe specifie certaine yeares after in which Paule and they were togither So now being at Rome againe it agreeth wel that the Epistle to the
such lyke these he goeth about orderlye to applie vnto Maister Iuell To aunswere them all in order were to enter into néedelesse labour and to contend in woordes with those which delight in rayling But bicause Maister Harding for some proofe of thys matter bringeth this authority of Doctor Luther against vs so vseth our coÌ„tention against our selfes let vs all praye vnto the God of peace and consolation that he would giue vnto vs to be all like minded that with one hart and one voyce we may prayse God euen the Father of Iesus Christ. Our agréement shall soone spread abroad Gods glorious Gospell and stop the euill mouth of the sclaunderer It shall defend the common hold of all good men and turne ouer the refuges of the Papists There is no way so straight to set out Gods glory as where the Preachers go al togither There is no perswasion so effectuall to pull the people from ydolatrie as the Ministers to loue one an other Happy were those times of the Israelites when the people were in Ierusalem â–ª as if they had bene one man Happye was the condition of the Apostles when they were al with one accâ—rd in the same place Then did Israel buylde an altar vnto the Lord. Then did the Apostles receiue the holy Ghost when they were all of one minde in Salomons porch manye signes and woonders were shewed by them When the Philippians did continue in one spirite and in one minde helping forward the labouring faith of the Gospell they did well become the Gospell of Christ. If there be therefore any consolation in Christ if any comfort of loue if any fellowship of the spirite if any compassion and mercy let vs fulfil our ioy that we be like minded Christ pleased not him selfe but euen as it is wrytten the rebukes of them that rebuked they fell on me and shall we abide strife and contention He was wounded for our transgressions and broken for our iniquitie and shall not we beare the infirmities of our brethren A brused réede he dyd not breake and the smoking flaxe he did not quench and shal we treade them downe that we thinke are a little deceiued Where is that voyce of Saint Chrisostome Charitie is more strong than a wall of Adamant stone Where is the voyce of S. Paule the Apostle beare one an others burthen Where is the voyce of our sauiour Christ by this all men shal know you are my Disciples Haue we forgotten the coÌ„maudement that was so lately giuen vs be you one as my Father and I am one Consider I beseche you O my fellowe seruaunts howe daungerous times are come vpon vs of the Christian common wealth Consider the great perils whereinto wée are fallen In the heades of a verye fewe very manye of our weake brethren haue great daunger The wicked doe triumphe and reioyce when the bold and vngodlye Louanisâ—s haue nothing to obiect vnto vs they set our owne contention in the eyes of all men wâ—en they haue no testimony of scripture to bryng against vs such is the mercy of our God are not vpholden with the fauor aucthoritie of our Prince yet they haue a certaine confidence in our disagréement Take from them this hope which yet they leane on and it shal come to passe that either they shall leaue their popish thraldome with the lost Childe returne vnto the mercyfull Father or if they will still abide in those papall tempests they shall be broken with the rockes of errours and perish in the shipwrackes of their own deuises God the Father of all mercy giue vnto vs for his Sonnes sake that with one will and agréeable mindes we may all prayse hys name And thus farre of thys argument Hardyng ¶ There was neuer any Hickescorner that ieasted more pleasant at any toy in an enterlude then Maister Iuell scoffeth blasphemously at the most holy and dredful Mysteries And may no man be so hardy as to name him a Lucian or a Scoffer Dering Surely a man woulde thinke by these procéedings that Maister Hardings newe Dioclesian hath enstructed hym in olde Genesius learning He would defend his modestie and yet neuer was ther a more sawcie gester against a Christian bishop But let him come forth on the stage and beholde his vnnourtered gestures Maister Iuell scoffeth saith he at the dreadfull misteries And how proueth he it Is his woorde an oracle No no Maister Harding he is no Lucian that abhorreth your vngodly sacrifice Hée is no Scoffer that speaketh by the spirit of God against your wicked misteries Ezechias called the brasen serpent nehushton yet he iested not at Gods institution The scripture calleth mouÌ„t Oliuet the mount of corruption yet blameth it not Gods creature S. Paul calleth circumcision ouerthwart cutting yet doeth he not scoffe at Gods sacrament Christ saide the Temple was a denne of théeues yet he confessed it ought to be a house of prayer And may not a man call your misteries by their name in which is as great abuse as euer was in the brasen Serpent in mouÌ„t Oliuet in Circumcision in the Temple of God Yea M. Harding your Misteries are Idolatrous though you crye out that Ezechias hath taken away the high places of God and his altars But who can let Achabs Prophets to speake ill of Micheah Hardyng ¶ What mad man euer ouershot him selfe so farre as to make such a hasty Chalenge specially in matters of religion by so long practise of the Churche determined Who euer presumed so to make defiance as it were to al learned men yea to al men aliue who euer defended a matter so stoutly auouched with lesse learning Who in so weighty pointes made Argumentes of lesse pith so light and so childish And yet this ioly felow standeth so high in his owne conceit that whiles he laieth about him flingeth and stryketh at all men spareth not the reuerence of his Mother no not the Maiestye of the holy Ghoste and Christ our Lord he may not be touched so much as it were with a venue of these most deserued termes Dering Now is Maister Harding come to his last and least reason and wyth a company of braue Interrogations of what mad man and who euer wythout anye aunswere made concludeth at aduenture that these many moe modest termes were well applied But softe syr a hasty Bitch bringeth forth blinde whealpes If you come to this issue by my former graunting of euery question let the fault be mine if by your owne presuming you are neuer the neare You haue roled vp Sisyphus stone and it is fallen downe againe and therfore you must begin a freshe What mad man say you euer ouershot him selfe so farre c. Maister Harding when he tooke vpon him to aunswere the Chalenge Who euer presumed so to make defiance c. God when he sayde come nowe and blame me if you can Esay 1.18 And
otherwise than the Euangelists reporte his words or else they could not agrée with their Masse this is a sufficient discharge of this vntruthe A good Christian before he sée better aucthoritie will beleue as the Gospell teacheth that we must first take it and eate it before it be Christes body so shall he sone sée the Idolatrie of a Popishe Masse The B. of Saris. If Christe instituted the Sacrament to the intent it should be first consecrate and then receiued of a companie c. Harding The .72 vntruthe This is a very grosse falsifying of my words Dering These are M. Hardings owne wordes in this Diuision Christ ordained y e Sacrament after Consecration done to be receiued eaten Of these words saith M. Iuel as is before alleaged if Christ. c. if I should héere aske of the indifferent Reader wherin is this grosse falsifying sure he could easily espie it But somewhat to helpe the Readers vnderstanding this it is where M. Harding hath to be receiued and eaten M. Iuell saith to be receiued of a companie if this be as it is in déede no fault whereto is this vnseasonable crying out of falsifying But if it shall séeme to be a fault then know that where M. Iuel alleageth M. Hardings owne wordes he printeth them in a distinct letter but this saying which so grieueth M. Harding is in the common letter of M. Iuels words wherby master Harding might haue wel vnderstand had he not bene disposed to wrangle that master Iuel alleaged them not as his expresse words but rather sheweth how he should haue made his saying plaine and this he proueth by authoritie of Bessarion and Gabriel Biel that after Consecration the sacrament be not receiued onely as maister Harding sayth but receiued of a company which word as it must so being expressely written master Harding did directly reason against himselfe The B. of Sarisb The .9 diuision Here vnawares he seemed to confesse that his Masse whatsoeuer substance it bear it is void both of good order and also of congruence Harding The .73 vntruth I confesse no such thing Dering You séeme to confesse it â–ª sayth M. Iuel Whether you doe or no let your words witnesse You say you are not bound to folow Christes example in order and congruence Nowe we may infer Christes order is only good therefore you folow no good order or congruence This is but a single vntruth The B. of Saris. The matter being so weightie and not yet throughly beleued c. Harding The .74 vntruth It hath bene beleued Dering When you proue this sure M. Iuel will subscribe you may make euery word in his booke as vntrue as this For he hath not one worde that soundeth towarde your religion if this may be noted for vntrue to say your Massing worshippings haue neuer bene throughly beleued you may note many moe vntruthes in this Replie For there is not one line that alloweth the Masse Read the next vntruthe The B. of Sarish The olde fathers call that the daily Sacrifice that Christ made once for all vpon the Crosse. Harding The .75 vntruthe The olde fathers call not the Sacrifice of the Crosse the daily Sacrifice Dering M. Iuel doth alleage Aug. secund Luc. serm 28. Ierom. in 1. Co. ca. 5. Germanus in Eccle. rerum theoria Irenae lib. 4. cap. 34. Tertul. aduer Iudaeos Amb. in 1. ad Tim. cap. 2. Examine the aucthorities and sée M. Hardings answere so thou shalt best iudge If I should enter into it it would require a long aunswere and nothing necessary What the Doctors wryte M. Iuel is thought to know as wel as M. Harding First reade and then iudge This is againe the .132 vntruthe And bicause we are againe fallen into mention of this Sacrifice which M. Harding said euen now hath bene throughly beleued let vs examine that vntruthe and trie if M. Harding be found true in his workmanship It hath bene throughly beleued saith he that the Priest doth offer vp to God the body and bloud of Christ vnbloudely in the remembraunce of that one bloudy Sacrifice of Christ. Reade of this in the Epistle the .31 leafe thou shalt haue it fully discussed only in this vntruth bicause the question lieth rather whether it hath bene beleued than whether the saying be true let vs a little consider of Christ him selfe his Apostles whether they haue beleued it First Christ in no one worde did giue vnto his Churche any commission of suche maner sacrifycing Christ saith often I giue vp my soule I Saâ—rifice my selfe no man doth it but I but vnto his Disciples he saith quo ego vado vos non potestis venire Whither I goe ye can not come By which wordes he taketh from them all power to Sacrifice him euen as it was afore tolde by Daniel that after Christ was once offred the Sacrifice and the Oblation should cease Not a word written wherby it may be gathered that we may offer vp Christ. And doth M. Harding thinke that in so weightie a matter as the remission of our sinnes that any thing is required of vs which is not commaunded vs It appeareth then in the time of Christ this was not beleued Did the Apostles beleue it after Christ S. Paule saith in that he died vnto sinne he died but once againe by one Oblation he made his perfite for euer and againe wher is remission of sinne there is no more sacrifice for sinne Then by S. Paule there is nowe no daily sacrifice for sinne except by Christes deathe we will that our sinnes be not forgiuen Againe S. Paule will haue vs folowe Christes example in the administration of Christes supper who teacheth vs of no Oblation for quicke and dead Againe the sacrifice cannot be made without a speciall priesthode but the Apostles doe teache vs that all suche Priesthode is abrogate If at any time the name of Oblation be mentioned in this age it is euer meant spiritually As is plaine Ro. 12. .16 Phil. 2. 1. Peter .2 for the real Sacrifice S. Peter is plain Christ hath caried our sinnes in his body vpon the woode and by his stripes we be healed and the effects of that one Sacrifice once made are purging of the sinnes of the whole world 1. Pe. 2. .3 1. Ioh. 2. 3. Ro. 4. Ephe. 1. eternall redemption Gal. 2. Ephe. 1. Rightuousnesse Ro. 3.4.8 2. Cor. 5. SaÌ„ctificatioÌ„ Eb. 10. Peace Ro. 5. Ioy of the spirite Ro. 4. Gal. 5. Newnesse of life Rom. 6. 1. Co 5. Loue of our neighboure 1. Ioh. 3. Eternall life 1. Ioh. 5. Ro. 6. then neither Christ nor his Apostles euer beleued it for the estate of the primatiue Churche how it beleued M. Harding hath nothing to say but referreth vs to the .xvij. Article of his former booke héere good Reader my labor is wel eased for séeing my Lord of Sarisburie hath answered al that matter who so wil be confirmed in that truthe he can
vnto vs. And he that knoweth God heareth vs and the worde whereby the righteousnesse of God is knowne is the word of faith which we preache And plainly S. Paule calleth it the word of reconciliation And the Gospell is the power of God vnto saluation to al them that beleue And Peter witnesseth that the Gospell is preached to the ende men might liue vnto God and Christ sanctified his Churche by the washing of water throughe the worde Not one place in the scripture that we be sanctified by priuate Masse or daily sacrifice But let vs let these sacrificers alone They be blinde leaders of the blinde Read more of this in the epistle and in the .75 vntruthe The B. of Saris. The .26 Diuision S. Augustine saith the people receiued euery day Harding The .133 vntruthe He saith not so Dering Note this is all one vntruthe with the .83 and .145 These are S. Augustines words the daily bread may be taken for the sacrifice of Christes body which we receiue euery day Maister Harding saith he ment this of himselfe only and of other priests and he saith it only and doeth not proue it and vpon credite of his owne words doth quote an vntruthe With like facilitie I could make answer it were not vntrue but words without reason I will leaue vnto maister Harding to proue that S. Augustine ment the daily vse of their open Churche and that some did euermore receiue it may appeare as we reade in the Acts that those which came vnto the Church of Christ continued daily in breaking of bread and prayers by breaking of bread meaning the Communion And in an other place when the Disciples came together they brake breade and Paule preached And we reade in the .1 to the Corinthians the .11 Chapter When they came together they did eate the Lords supper Héereby it appeareth that in the Apostles time this daily receiuing was in vse though of Massing for the quicke and deade of shutting the bread in a boxe of worshipping it of carying about there be not one worde immediatly after c. About .200 yeares after this Tertullian wryteth Eucharistia sacramētum c. iam antelucanis sumimus temporibus We receiue the Eucharist euer before day And in an other place thy husband shall not know what thou tastest secretely before other meates By this it appeareth the Christians did vsually receiue euery morning S. Cyprian about 50. yeares after wryteth How shall we make them méete for the cuppe of martyrdom if first we do not giue vnto them the cup of the Lords bloud noting that in that great persecution they receiued daily in the morning Againe he wryteth Grauior nūc ferocior pugna imminet ad quam fide incorrupta virtute robusta parare se debent milites Christi And it foloweth Considering therefore they daily receiue the cup of the bloud of Christ they also for Christ may shed their bloud He saith further we require that this bread may be giuen vs daily least we that are in Christ Eucharistiam quotidie ad cibum salutis accipimus and daily receiue the Eucharist which is the meate of our saluation should be by any great offence seperated from Christ. Thus it appeareth in plaine wordes that in Cyprians time they receiued daily The like appeareth by Eusebius lib. 1. de demonst Euangelica cap. 10. Diuers other places may be brought which all proue M. Hardings aunswer to be vaine and doe wel expound the meaning of S. Augustine Chrysostome saith semper communicabant they did alwayes Communicate And maister Harding doeth alleage bothe him and Augustine himselfe for proofe of the daily sacrifice Now wher they say that we offer daily and yet confute sufficiently this newe fansied transubstantiation it is plaine they ment of this daily Communion and of the often vse of it maister Hardings Ignatius in like manner wryteth when this is done continually the powers of Sathan are driuen away These and diuers suche proofes may be had out of Ierome Ambrose Iustine Irenaeus and other many for this daily receiuing and therfore these vntruthes must néedes be little worthe that are so plentifully challenged and may so easily be answeared But whose aucthoritie should I rather vse in this case than maister Hardings owne Doctors they wryte it often and teache very plainly that in the primatiue Church they receiued daily Thomas Aquinas writeth thus In the primatiue church when the people were very deuout in the Christian faith it was decréed vt fideles quotidie communicarent that the faithfull people should receiue daily Durandus saith in the primatiue Church omnes fideles quotidie communicabant all the faithfull receiued daily Loe héere are maister Hardings owne Doctors which doe sufficiently answere his vntruth Here by the way of this one thing I must moreouer warne the good Christian reader that M. Harding is not able to shewe any one sufficient proofe whereby it may appeare that the Churche in any place within CCC yeares after Christ did appoint any one day especially for that purpose as their confederacie at Trident haue of late straightly charged It appeareth by S. Luke they met daily and it appeareth by Paule to the Ephesians y t they had their méetings both day and night in this vse they cōfirmed their doctrine which Paule teacheth the Colossians Let no man condemne you in meat and drinke nor in respect of an holy day or of the newe Moone or of the Sabbothe dayes And no doubt to take away this popish superstitiō of dayes times it was gods good wil and pleasure then so to ordaine it And for a ful proofe that the Churches vsed some saturday some sunday it is well shewed by that hot contention that was raised by Victor Anicetus against y e gréeke church After y e Apostles time about the yeare of our Lord .115 vnder y e Emperor Traiane it appeareth that the Christians vsuall méeting was in the mornings as is shewed by Plinie in an epistle written to the Emperoure of the same matter After this .30 or .40 yeare Iustinus doeth recorde that in his time they vsed the sonday and any other day when there was baptizing of children After this it is declared by Origen that the Christians of his time did not méete only on sundayes and holidayes but on other dayes also And Sozomene séemeth to deny of the Romaine Church that they had any meetings on the Saboth day as all other Churches had Eusebius saith quotidie ferme ad percipiendam disciplinam christi constuunt almost euery day they came to hear the doctrine of Christ. Athanasius nameth expresly these dayes sabbatum diem dominicum secundum sabbati parasceuen quartum sabbati Now if it can not be proued that any one Church made a special obseruation of the sunday but that on other dayes also they vsed like seruice vnto god
could not see that in Chrysostome vvhich Chrysostome hath not Dering What M. Harding séeth only M. Harding knoweth But what a fonde vntruthe héere is quoted that I trow euery mā may witnesse Thus saith M. Iuel M. Harding séeth this is but a slender proofe master Harding saith he can not sée it in Chrysostome In déede that is true who saith it is in Chrysostome He was too well learned to make such lose argumēts I would faine heare of some of M. Hardings friends how he could excuse this vntruthe and what it meaneth The B. of Saris. M. Harding hath deuised a way how two priests saying their Masses in diuers countreis may yet Communicate together in breaking bread Harding The .214 vntruthe I doe not say they can communicate in breaking bread Dering This vntruthe was numbred once before Reade the .107 vntruthe There are M. Hardings plaine woords What he meaneth héere againe to recken this vntruthe saue onely for numbers sake no man I trow knoweth And yet how fondly and with what a blinde distinction he dothe it it shall not be a misse to tell thée He saith héere they doe not breake bread together But saith he they participate of one bread and communicate together be the distaunce betwéene them neuer so great This plain saying he hath in his Reioinder intermingled with a few other woords Read the place Now if maister Harding do thus vnderstand M. Iuel as if he ment that two priestes many miles a sunder might breake the same loafe that imagination is too grose and no wise man wil alow it If he meane any spirituall breaking then his owne words alowe the saying for good then this vntruthe proueth nothing against M. Iuel but reproueth M. Harding either of foly or else of falshoode The B. of Saris. Lay people wemen sicke folkes and boyes are brought in to proue his Masse Harding The .215 vntruthe They are not brought to proue the Masse Dering Maister Harding is very nigh at an ende his number is not yet ful Therfore being enforced to take vntruthes as he may he is lighted on suche a place as he could not light on a worse This vntruthe is reckened .v. times before the .87.101.126.128.129 and now the .215 It had bene requisite to haue ben better that should serue so many turnes The B. of Saris. Heere be brought in a company of petie Doctors all of doubtfull credite Harding The .216 vntruthe They be not of doubtfull credite Dering Now we be at the bottome of these vntruths M. Harding is faine to draw out dregges and all There was inough said before of Amphilochius and his fellowes and some of them M. Harding had quite turned and that he would neither defend them nor condemne them But now necessity doth make him breake his promise rather than he shold lose an vntruth they must be all of good credite againe They that list let them so accompt them The B. of Saris. This matter is made good by visions dreames and fables Harding The .217 vntruthe I proue it not by dreames Dering Héere saith M. Harding this tale of Amphilochius is neither dreame nor fable but it appeared vnto him good aucthoritie Yet he saith before that whether it be a vaine fable or a true story he wil not determine wel let this contrarietie goe Whether it be a fable or no iudge thou Here further as touching maister Hardings Philosophy in so exacte defining of dreames and visions bicause he taketh vpon him to control a better Philosopher than him self And in this word dreame wil haue the force of his vntruthe saying it was a vision and no dreame which S. Basil saw that distinction is more curious than learned for the two Gréeke woords 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is a dreame and a vision doe bothe signifie those things which be true vnlesse he wil say that a dreame dothe signifie more largely then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or somnium and yet if it doe a vision must néedes be a dreame though euery dreame be not a vision so this vntruthe by no meanes can be iustified The B. of Saris. He hath made searche for his Masse at Alexandria in Aegipt at Antioche in Syria at Caesarea in Cappadocia a thousande miles beyonde Chrystendome Harding The .218 vntruthe These cities are not a thousande miles beyond Christendome Dering This vntruthe was not worthe twise numbring Read the 183. vntruthe The B. of Saris. Bicause he had no hope to spede in townes he hathe sought out little churches in the countrey Harding The .219 vntruthe I haue proued that the Masse was celebrated in townes Dering This vntruthe is soone gathered but when M. Harding dothe proue it not only maister Iuel but all other that impugne their superstitious vanities will soone subscribe In the meane season he must not builde vp his vntruthes with suche sayings as we openly maintaine bothe in worde and wryting The B. of Saris. Likewise S. Paule willed one to waite for an other in the holy ministration Harding The .220 vntruthe These words are not ment of the ministration of the Sacrament Dering These words of S. Paule goe very nighe M. Hardings priuate Masse and therfore it behoueth him for his Masses sake to stande stiffely in it that they belong not vnto the ministration of the Lords supper For if they doe belong vnto it then no doubt M. Hardings Masse is a sinke of iniquitie that is so contrary vnto S. Paules woords Now for better discussing of this bicause in trying it this priuate Masse shall be better knowne let vs examine S. Paules woordes Thus he saithe Wherfore my brethren when ye come together to eate tary one for an other This saith M. Harding is to be vnderstand of certaine Churche feastes which they had called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not of the Communion and as though this were not said with shame inoughe he saith in an other place that in that chapter S. Paule dothe not rebuke them for the manner of ministring this Sacrament but for their abusing of their church feasts Now for proofe of this interpretation he onely alleageth the bare names of Chrysostome and Theodoretus and this is al he can bring Read Reioinder fol. 306. Now let vs sée againe what on the other side may be said to proue that S. Paule meaneth of the ministration of the Sacrament And this we may sée bothe by the testimonie of all the old Doctors and most vndoubtedly by examination of the place it selfe Athanasius applieth all that place to the Communion in plaine woords Occumenius saith only the Lords supper is there spoken of and vpon this place inuicem expectate tary one for an other Thus he writeth Itaque Quamobrem Ne indigne corpus domini sanguinem participare probemini Therefore saith the Apostle Wherefore Least you should be proued to participate the Lordes body and bloud vnworthely By this Doctor he receiueth vnworthily that