church estate was dissolved their Temple and holy citie burned when Babylon and Bels temple in it flourished and was garnished with the holy vessels stollen out of Gods temple The Lord had swallowed up all the habitations of Jakob swallowed up Jsrael and all her pallaces destroyed his places of assemblie caused the solemne feasts and Sabbathes to be forgotten in Sion cast off his Altar abhorred his sanctuarie Mount Sion was desolate and the foxes walked upon it But was Babylon which thus abused Gods people and burned his Temple Gods church If not how should the Church of Rome which now is Babylon the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth which is drunken with the blood of the Saincts how should she be Gods church people or Temple 3. Had not that people also polluted the Temple of the Lord and fallen into notorious idolatrie c. for which they were given by the Lord into the hands of the Babylonians and were they not stil the Lords church and people c. Answ. They were some of them as before is shewed And so Christians having polluted Gods temple of Christianitie and fallen into idolatries and heresies were given over of the Lord some into the hands of the Turk as Israel into the hands of Assur some into the hands of the Pope as Iudah into Babel And such Israelites as embraced the religiō of the Assyrians Babylonians ceased to be Gods people actually til they repented others that resisted evil and kept the trueth as Daniel and his brethren were Gods holy people So all in Rome and Turkie that abide in the truth refusing their abominations are Gods holy people the rest that have received Maometisme and Antichristianisme are not Gods people actually albeit many of them are Gods elect and shal so be manifested when they come out from them But mine opposite changeth the state of the question turning it from Babylon it self to Israel Gods people in Babylon and so from the Church of Rome now Babylon to the faithful witnesses of Christ therin of whom none make doubt 4. Js there not difference to be put between the people of God in Babylon and Babylon it self c. Answ. Yes which whiles it is not held unto we are dallied with The controversie is about the church of Rome it self which is Babylon the reasons given are for Gods people open or secret in that Babylon Who seeth not the deceyt For God hath had his people in Rome not onely when it was Antichristian but when it was heathen and multitudes have been killed for Christ therin in both estates This justifieth not but condemneth Rome the murderer of the Saincts Obj. To make this matter yet more plaine observe Zach. 2. 6. 7. Ho ho come forth c. Deliver thyself ô Sion that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon This plainly sheweth that Sion is in Babylon not mount Sion it self c. but the people of God that perteyned to Sion among whom when God set his Temple he sayd withall I wil dwell in the midst of you shewing that the Temple was a token of his presence among them a band of the holy and mutual conjunction that was between God and them whether they were bound to come for to worship God and to bring their sacrifices Answ. In deed this maketh the matter more plaine For 1. here he grāteth the Temple to have been a token of Gods presence among his people but when so I applied it in expounding 2. Thes. 2. he resisted me and would have it there to be the people the church 2. This temple the token of Gods presence and band of his communion with his people God had forsaken For his people synning in it by their idols Ezek. 8. God in wrath sent destroyers upon them Ezek. 9 But before destruction he marked his people on the forehead that cried out for all the abominations Which being doen he slayed to destruction all others not marked both old and yong and began at his sanctuarie Then scattred he coales of fyre over the citie removed his glorie the signe of his presence out of his Temple and from the middest of the citie to signifie his departure from amongst them Then came the king of Babylon Gods servant to execute his wrath and performed the vision in burning both Temple and citie and carying the people thence into Babylon So Moses prophesie was fulfylled Levit. 26. 31. 36. Then both such godly ones as had not been polluted with the abominations in Ierusalem and had been marked of God for his such synners also as by their afflictions were brought to repentance and confessed their iniquitie and the iniquitie of their fathers and had their uncircumcised harts humbled and turned unto him with all their hart and with all their soule he mercifully respected them remembred his covenant towards them The rest perished in their synns being given over in just judgment whiles they were in that dispersion to serve other goods wood and stone though yet by his prophets God warned them not to doe it Ier. 10. So the Lord set the signe of his gracious presence in the Christian church Rev. 4. but they soon defiled it by their idolatries heresies for which they were chastised Rev. 6. Wherfore God in justice ready to bring further plagues marketh and sealeth on the foreheads such as were his Rev. 7. then his judgments came forth in greater measure Rev. 8. by a beast or kingdom whose chief seat should be in Babylon that is Rome he suffered the Saincts to be overcome and gave him power over all kinreds and tongues and nations that such as had not their names written in the book of life should worship him and be damned for ever In which Babylon or Popish church the Lord hath notwithstanding his open witnesses that withstand their abominations unto the death and many moe of his elect whom he calleth out in his time from that whorish church and these are the people of God that perteyn to mount Sion and wil no more justifie the state of the church of Rome at this day then Gods lost sheep of Israel justified Babylon of old Obj. Note here 1. That the people of God pollute his temple become apostates and idolaters and are captived in Babylon Answ. But note withall that they have their temple of God and holy citie consumed with fyre and are caried out of their holy land into an other synfull nation as before is shewed 2. That thus now Sion is in Babylon and consequently the Temple of God so to speak the people of G. the church of G. is in Babylon Ans. So to speak But the speech is unproper and God no where speaketh so The visible Temple was burnt and they had none with them in Babylon but Bels temple none of the Lords The lost sheep the people of God perteyning to mount
Sion as whileere he sayd were in Babylon And for his figurative applying of the Temple here to the people or church it is amyss it should be applyed to God himself For so the Lord sayth by the Prophet though I have scattred them among the countries yet wil J be to them as a little Sanctuarie in the countries where they shal come Ezek. 11. 16. So the Lord not the people was the Sanctuarie or temple in Babylon 3. Stil they are acknowledged of God to be Sion his people c though in Babylon Answ. So I alwayes and stil acknowledge God to have his people in Babylon the church of Rome But it should be proved if it were possible that Babylon is Sion or the church of Rome to be the church of God 4. The Lord calleth them from thence by diverse prophets c. 5. Being so called they did not all come togither at once c. Answ. These things are true and so for the Lords calling of his people out of Babylon now But it is not yet concluded not ever wil be soundly that the Babylonians are Gods people except the elect which belong to mount Sion though-actually in Babylon Obj. There wil be of Gods people yet called from thence even then when this Babylon the citie of Rome shal be burnt with fyre and cast down never to rise any more Rev. 18. 4. 8. c. Answ. This conclusion is partly true and partly implieth error It is true that there shal be of Gods people called out of Babylon til she be utterly cast down But the errour implied is that he maketh Babylon the citie not the church of Rome and seemeth also to restreyn it to the citie properly and to the burning of the material citie and houses therof Wheras this Babylon is the great Whore who though her cheif â—ear is in Rome yet her ecclestaâ—â—ical jurisdiction reacheth over peoples and kinreds and tongues and nations And when the tenth part of that citie fell it is not meant of the tenth part of the houses in Rome but of people in that catholik church And when God calleth his people out of Babylon it is not meant out of Rome onely or Italic but Spaine also and all other places where Poperie reigneth Neyther is it meant in regard of civil politie as if the subjects in Italie Spaine and other lands might not remaine in those comon wealthes still but they are called out from the heresies idolatries and extravagant jurisdiction of the Romish church So the civil bondage of the Iewes in the old Babylon typed the spiritual bondage of Gods people in this new Babylon the church of Rome and out of it are men called not out of the civil state or material place For who will deny but Christian churches may dwel in Spaine Italie yea and Rome it self if the magistrates wil suffer them and yet not disobey this precept Come out of her my people It is a doctrine of grace and necessarie unto salvation to come out of the church estate of this Romish Babylon but to understand it of the CoÌ„mon wealths estate and to call men out of it were a doctrine of rebellion contrarie to Rom. 13. 1. 1. Pet. 2. 13. 14. Wheras I concluded Gods covenant of grace is not therefore with her at all for she is appointed to damnation 2 Thes. 2. 8. 12. Rev. 18. 8. 21. but the elect that obey Gods voice calling them out of her them hee will receive into covenant he will be a father unto them and they shal be his sonns daughters as he hath promised 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. He replyeth As if they were not already under the covenant of God being his people or as if they could be the Lords people and yet not be under his covenant The Jewes knew better when they were in Babylon and therevpon prayed as in Esai 63. 17. 18. 19. 64. 7. 8. 9. Returne to the tribes of thine inheritance c we are thine c. O Lord thou art our father c. Answ. The people of God in Rome being his elect are under his covenant in regard of his electioÌ„ which was before the world began but until they be called come out they appear not unto men to be under the visible covenant of Gods church whereof Paul speaketh in the place alleaged 2 Cor. 6. That the godly Iewes in Babylon figured Gods elect I before shewed from Rom. 11. 4. 5. 7. and mine opposite gainsayeth it not That God calleth the elect his people even before they know or obey his voice was shewed him also heretofore when God sayd to Paul of heathenish Corinth J have much people in this citie Act. 18. 10. yet Paul knew not who they were till after they beleeved by his preaching So Christ sayd Other sheep J have which are not of this fold Ioh. 10. 16. speaking of the elect gentiles whiles yet they were not sheep actually before men but wild beasts of the wood His comparison from Esai 63. if it be referred to the Martyrs which the church of Rome hath imprisoned killed banished for the trueth is fit and I acknowledge them visibly under Gods covenant But referred to them that are one with the church of Rome in her faith and religion it is very unfitt For those people of God in Babylon were in civil bondage but in freedome of spirit and not servants to syn such were Daniel Ananias and other saints But these of the Romish church religion are in spiritual bondage to Antichrist and so partakers of his synns and in state of death by mans judgement till they obey their calling and come forth though God knoweth them before to be his people by election of grace By this which hath been sayd the wise may discerne what weight there is in Rev. 18. to prove Babylon the present church of Rome to be the church of God because out of her God calleth his people And let all men take notice of the mayn ground of his errour that he would have Babylon now to be the civil state or material citie when in deed it is the ecclesiastical or church For God calleth not peoples out of their civil states it is a doctrine of rebellion so to interpret it and contrary to Rom. 13 but from their synfull ecclesiastical estate All civil states though governed by Popish yea or heathenish magistrates are sanctified to Gods people Act. 25. 10. 11. Rom. 13. 1. 2. c. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. 17. they may lawfully continew under them have the use and benefit of them they are all of God and none of them from the bottomless pit or of the Divil as is the Beast the Empire of Antichrist Rev. 17. 8. from which God calleth all his people Of comparing the church of Rome with Israel MIne opposite laboured to strengthen his former reason froÌ„ Rev. 18. by saying And so Jsrael is often called the Lords people in the
A REPLY TO A PRETENDED CHRISTIAN PLEA FOR THE ANTICHISTIAN CHVRCH OF ROME published by Mr. Francis Iohnson ao. 1617. Wherin the weakness of the sayd Plea is manifested and arguments alleaged for the Church of Rome and Baptisme therein are refuted By Henry Ainsworth Anno 1618. We would have healed Babylon but she is not healed forsake her and let us goe every one into his owne countrie for her judgment reacheth unto heaven and is lifted up even to the skies Ier. 51. 9. Printed in the yere 1620. The Preface TWo things good Reader have been heretofore controverted between Mr. Iohnson and mee the one concerning the Power of the Christian church which he would have installed in the Ministerie thereof the other concerning the Antichristian church of Rome with the ministerie and baptisme thereof which he hath pleaded to be true though corrupted I have proved to be false and deceytfull These things have passed publikly through mine Opposites occasion in Mr Richard Cliftons Advertisement and my Animadversion therto The former of these two points Mr. Iohnson hath left vnanswered so the prudent may judge of the strife by that which we both have sayd the latter he hath sought to mainteyne by a colourable Plea for the Romane church cheifly underpropped by two reasons 1. because Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God 2. and because Apostate Israel the figure of this Antichristian church was the church of God as he pretendeth These with his other like reasons I have laboured to refell in this treatise folowing His order of handling them I have altered beginning with the Church of Rome then with the Baptisme of that church for so I judge the trueth of the controversie wil soonest appeare His often longsome repetitions I seek to abridge as being fruitlesse wearisome to the Readers his bold and bitter taunts I passe over being not willing to answer any man and least of all the dead to such things As also his marching us among the Anabaptists for our more disgrace his dissembling of his own former judgment and accord with us in the things now controverted imputing them to us and others when himself hath formerly spoken and written for the things which he now would pull down but hath not taken away his owne grounds Onely wheras in his preface he intimateth sundry manifest untruthes published in the Animadversion but nameth none I signifie in a good conscience that to my knowledge â— published not any one untrueth but rather spared him then pressed things in extremitie That which I suppose he aimeth at I set downe from the report of honest faithfull witnesses of whome some are now at rest in the Lord who would not as I am perswaded willingly have related any thing but the trueth Finally as in all other my labours so in these controversies following I indevour to find out manifest the way and wil of God by the light of his word to the glorie of his name and comfort of those that love the trueth in sinceritie A REPLY TO A PRETENDED Christian Plea for the Antichristian Church of Rome WEe are taught of God that they which forsake the Law praise the wicked but such as keep the Law will contend with them Wherfore though my desire hath been to leave off contention with all men to labour to build up Sion in peace yet being provoked by name my writings against the Man of syn that Son of perdition being publickly traduced I held it my dutie to mainteyne the warre which I began to wage against the Beast whom The Lord will consume with the spirit of his mouth and will abolish with the brightnes of his coming The state of this controversie is whether notwithstanding the infinite idolatries and other abominations now of a long time with strong hand practised by the church of Rome it be to be reputed the true church of Christ and the Sacraments especially Baptisme to be esteemed the true signes and seals of the covenant of grace from God to them in their present estate I deny it mine opposite hath colourably pleaded for it inveighed much against me in his last book called A Christian Plea ao. 1617. Wherin though in many things he deserved sharp blame yet having ended his life with his work and not being now to answer for himself or make use of that which is written I will omitt the just reproofs which might through Gods mercie have been a benefit unto him and will address my self to remove the stumbling blocks out of others way and to cleare the trueth which is darkned with the cloud of error The Lord which hath taken this counsel against Babylon that the least of the flock shal draw them out and that he will surely make their habitation desolate with them inable me with his grace to â—ight the good fight of â—aith and to declare in Sion the vengeance of the LORD our God the vengeance of his Temple Of the church of â—ome BEcause the true Church is that people to whom perteyneth the adoption of sonns and the glorie and the covenants the giving of the Law and the service of God and the promises it is requisite that we first haÌ„dle the state of Antichrists church so shall we the better discerne of the ministerie seales of the covenant and other ordinances of God which the man of syn abuseth whether they be true or false unto them in that their synfull abuse In my former answer I layd downe these grounds The Antichristian synagogue is by the Holy Ghost called a Beast Rev. 13. 11. which signifieth a Kingdome Dan. 7. 23. it is named also a great Citie Rev. 11. 8. which noteth the largenes of tha tpolitie kingdome It cometh up out of the earth Rev. 13. 11. as being of this world which Christs kingdome that cometh downe from heaveÌ„ Rev. 21. 2. is not and therefore is called a man of syn 2 Thes. 2. 3. and a great whore Rev. 17. 1. whose head is Abaddon or Apollyon Revel 9. 11. the Destroyer of others and himself the son of perdition 2 Thes. 2. 3. and they that follow him are the children of damnation 2 Thes. 2. 12. This wicked generation warreth against the Lamb Christ and against the Saincts Rev. 17. 14. 6. and 13. 7. blasphemeth Gods name and Tabernacle and them that dwel in heaven Rev. 13. 6. that is the true church whose conversation is heavenly Phil. 3. 20. Yet doe they all this mischief under shew of Christian religion and therefore this Beast hath hornes like the Lamb Christ Rev. 13. 11. this whore is arayed with purple scarlet guilded with gold precious stones and pearles Rev. 17. 4. as if she were the Queen and spouse of Christ Psal. 45. 9. 13. Ezek. 16. â—0 13. Song 7. 5. she hath Peace-offrings and Vowes Prov. 7. 14. as if she were devout in Gods service Psal. 66. 13. bread and waters Prov. 9. 16. 17. as ready
the true churches apostate in Rev. 2. 3. were still golden candlesticks though some of them rustie but I would have it likewise graunted me that there were other churches but copper candlesticks though they pretended to be golden namely such Antichristian haeretical synagogues as of whom it might be sayd They went out from us but they were not of us 1. Joh. 2. 18. 19. And if those petty Antichrists were no golden candlesticks much less can the great Antichrist with his synagogue be a golden candlestick for he farr exceedeth them in idolatrie heresie and impietie That Antichrist could sit in any true church then as he sitteth now in the church of Rome namely as God and so to be beleeved with his lyes worshiped and obeyed I utterly deny for that church that so doeth departeth from Christ the foundation and denyeth both the Father and the Son 1 Ioh. 2. 22. 23. and whether it be a particular church or a more general it skilleth not universalitie in worshiping the Beast causeth but universalitie of damnation Rev. 13. 16. 17. 14 9. 10. 11. Obj. Wheras he would be taught how that whorish company that worship the Beast and Dragon can be the true catholik church and spouse of Christ though that which J noted before be sufficient for the point in hand yet let him first remember how but a litle before he told us the catholik church of the now Romish religion as themselves describe it hath one part therof on earth an other under the earth a third part in heaven and now here he speaketh onely of such as are on earth and those also such as worship the Dragon and beast Rev. 13. 4. wheras the catholik church in deed conteyneth all churches people of God from the beginning of the world c. Answ. By this then it appeareth that the church of Rome lyeth apparantly when she calleth her self the catholik church and therfore is not the true church or Temple of God But I would be taught in deed how that whorish company here on earth which worship the Beast can be the true church eyther universall or particular Here first he asketh whither I think there was no other churches of Christians catholik or particular wherin Antichrist sate since th'apostasie of the man of syn but such as worshiped the Dragon and the beast And who then were the Tabernacle and those that dwelt in heaven whom the beast blasphemed and the saintes with whom he made warr 42. monethes Rev. 13. 5. 6. 7. and of what church they were c. Answ. He seemeth to use the word sit in two senses 1. for oppressing blaspheming killing the Saincts that resisted Antichrist and 2. for quiet governing and having in subjection the wicked that beleeve and obey him with such aequivocations his writings are too full Such churches or persons as resisted the beast and whom he blasphemed and killed they were of God and of them there is no question But the other sort given over of God to beleeve lyes and to worship the man of syn as God like as he sheweth him self that he is God they are not the true church of God catholik or particular and of such is the present church of Rome now iâ— question As for the Saincts that dwell in heaven whom Antichrist blasphemeth they are where he is noâ— in the true church out of which he is gone both he and his and therfore doth he persecute them The scripture by him citeâ— Rev. 13. 6. yieldeth a strong argument against his purpose thus The true Tabernacle church and heavenly people are blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist The church of Rome now is not blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist but blessed commended mainteyned Therfore the church of Rome now is not the true tabernacle church or heavenly people Obj. Jerusalem came to be a hâ—â—lâ—t old in adulteries and the Jewes to be a synfull nation laden with iniquitie c. sonns of the sorceress the seed of â—he adulterer and the whâ—re a rebellious people c transgressing after all the abominations of the heathens and polluting the house of the Lord c. yet they were stil notwithstanding the citie people and temple of the Lord. Esai 1. 3. 3. 12. with Ier. 50. 28. 51. 11 35. 36. 45. 50. 51. Answ. One findeth a dead and stinking carkess of a man and to prove it a living man he sayth Such an one was so and so diseased he had the burnâ—ng ague the palsie dropsie the gangrene the plague yet was he a living man therfore this is likewise Such is the mould of mine opposites argument For the Papists the worshipers of the Beast are sayd of God to be dead men Rev. 20. 4. â— not partakers of the first resurrection that is dead in syn not revived by Christ now to prove them alive examples of other persons and peoples of Israel are alleaged who because they were great synners but not dead in syn therfore these dead men under Antichrist must be living also He hath been answered that the Iewes whiles they continued Gods Church though greatly corrupted are not fit resemblances of Antichrists church which the holy Ghost calleth no where Iudea but Babylon Rev. 17. Wheras I sayd The very word Temple speaking of that wherin Antichrist sitteth as God leadeth us to understand Antichrists church to be but a counterfeit shewing this reason that the Temple in Israel was not the church or people properly but a sacramentall signe of Gods dwelling with his people 2 Chron. 6. 2. and of his inward dwelling in their harts by faith Eph. 3. 17. 2. 22. so Antichrists temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people in whose harts he dwelleth by popish faith and by his spirit of error carying them to damnation c. Rev. 13. 4. 14. 16. 14. 1 Tim. 4. 1. 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. He answereth Then when th'Apostle sayth to the church of Corinth ye are the Temple of God 1 Cor. 3 16. his meaning should be according to this glose ye are a counterfeit church And when Christ sayd Destroy this Temple Joh. â— 19. speaking of his bodie the word Temple should lead us to understand Christs body to be but a counterfeyt Would any man of good understanding and affection have made such inferences upon my words Doth not the very word God when it is spoken of Baal and of images made with mens hands lead us to understand them to be but counterfeyt gods or would any adversary if I had so spoken of Baal and the word God which is applied unto him by the Prophet 1 King 18. 27. have wrested my reason against the true God But sundry such abuses I beare and forbeare to reply unto because my opposite cannot now heare his reproof and to other men it would be fruitless Hetherto of th'Apostles phrase the Temple of God Now touching the Man of
set among his people wheras in his understanding the Temple of God wherin Antichrist sitteth is the people 2. That Temple was not infected with syn but the syn rested in the persons that worshiped in it or came into it as I shewed before from Levit. 16. 16. Wheras the church of Rome is so infected with Antichrists syn as mine opposite confesseth it to be in most synfull and deep apostasie and so to be a notorious harlot and idolatress which all the people of God ought to forsake 3. That temple merely suffred that misusage at the hands of synners Iewes and Gentiles even as Christ the true Temple in his humanitie true Christians his members have suffred at the hands of the Romans of old heathens and now Antichristians But to make that temple a type of this malignant church which togither with her head the Pope persecuteth Christ and his saincts and worshipeth creatures idols and Divils is altogither amyss For so we might conclude thus As the Temple of God though it were defiled with the apostasie idolatrie of the Iewes and of the Gentiles with how great abomination soever yet continued Gods holy Temple still and could not by any impietie become the Temple of Antichrist or of Satan so the church of Rome though it should be defiled with apostasie idolatrie prophanenesse atheisme eyther of Antichrist or of Iewes Turks or Pagans if it should beleeve and receive the religion of Maomet or of Iulian the Apostata yet should it continue the true church and people of God and under his covenant of grace Behold what favour the church of Rome hath found above all churches under heaven that if she receive Iudaisme or Paganisme if she worship the Beast the Dragon or Divil himself by open profession yet the abideth the church of God for if Antiochus who set up Iupiter Olympius image in the Temple had set up also the professed worship of the Divil yet the Temple should have been Gods holy temple notwithstanding and so by proportion the church of Rome must be if this comparison of mine opposites be true By such doctrine the whole gospel of Christ is overthrowne For faith and sanctimonie of life are the summe of all the gospell and both of them are destroyed For though Rome be apostate and departed from the faith as Paul foretold 1 Tim. 4. 1. though she beleeve in a wafer cake and worship it for her God and maker though she beleeve to have forgivenes of synns by the abominable massing sacrifice of her priests by the pardons and indulgences of her popes and to merit salvation in heaven by wicked works which she doeth being taught by the Man of syn though she have many thousands of new Gods and new Christs even so many as there be Angels and saincts in heaven and moe too though she be as filthy in life as Sodom as idolatrous malignant against Gods people as were Egypt and Babylon unto which the holy Ghost hath compared her Rev 11. 8. 14. 8. yet so long as she wil say to Christ but as the Divil sayd Thou art Christ the son of God Luke 4. 41. that is so long as she reteyneth the profession of Christianitie she is the Temple of God the church of Christ and under the covenant of salvation But he that justifieth the wicked is an abomination to the Lord Prov. 16. 15. and woe unto them that say concerning evil it is good Esa. 5. 20. Can not men put difference between Gods ordinances given unto a people the people themselves that injoy use or abuse those ordinances The Temple was an ordinance given unto Israel as were the altars and sacrifices therin so God gave unto all the world by Noe commandements for altars and sacrifices Gen. 8. 20. unto Abraham he commanded circumcision unto Christians baptisme the Supper of Christ c. All Gods ordinances continue in themselves holy till God doe abrogate them though men that abuse them fall to be most unholy and without God in the world So the sacrifices of sheep and Oxen were in themselves Gods holy ordinances howsoever abused by the Iewes in Ierusalem by the Israelites in Samaria and by the heathens in their severall lands so circumcision though profaned by the Sichemites Gen. 34. so baptisme and the Lords supper though turned by Antichrist into abominable idols remayned and doe remaine in themselves Gods holy ordinances though men have abused them to their damnation so the Sun moon and starrs continued Gods good creatures though men made idols of them to themselves To reason therfore from the creatures and ordinances unto men which abuse them and to gather because the creature or ordinance abideth good in it self therfore the person that abuseth it abideth good also or to wrest a type as mine opposite doeth from a creature or ordinance of old to a most synfull people now and make them alike holy is an high abuse of Gods ordinances and a taking of his name in vaine Of the Temple in Rev. 11. MIne opposite proceedeth to speak of the Temple and court in Rev. 11. 1. 2. and to apply it to his present cause That which he first speaketh of the word Temple diversly used and meaning not onely the house but the Court yard or Courts I graunt unto him How to apply it he sheweth himself uncertaine whether more generally to the Christian church or more specially to the church of Rome Yet every way sayth he it wil folow that the state of the sayd church of Rome and Christians is to be esteemed according to the estate of the Temple at Ierusalem and particularly with reference to the court and holy citie given to the gentiles and therfore is to be accounted the church and citie of God as the other were his court and citie though polluted c. This I deny the church or people of Rome at this day is not answerable to the Temple or court or city of Ierusalem in holynes but to the gentiles in profanenes And I have before manifested his great abuse of that proportion from the Temple polluted yet continuing the Lords and holy in it self to the people apostate and fallen from the Lord from his faith and worship to the faith and worship of Antichrist In sted of proofs he offreth things to be considered The first wherof I leave as not perteyning to our controversie though it may seem not agreable that the most holy place should be omitted as figuring heaven seeing in the 19. verse when the Temple was opened the Ark of Gods testament was seen in it and the Ark was set in the most holy place 2 Chron. 5. 7. It is true that that place figured heaven Heb. 9. 24. but it might also figure other things on earth as the Temple it self figured both Christ and the Church as we have formerly heard His second consideration is whether by the temple of God here may not be understood the holy place and figuratively
even in this his last book where he dealeth against the Anabaptists For in his Chr. plea p. 27. 28. he sayth Circumcision once received in the apostasie of Israel was not repeated againe at their returning to the Lord and leaving of their idolatrous wayes c and quoteth among other scriptures 2 Chron. 30 ch and Ezr. 6. 19. 20. 21. Of which the one speaketh of them that returned in Ezekiahs dayes whiles the Israelites were in the land the other of them that had been dispersed among the heathens and returned So I where I treat of Baptisme handle those estates indistinctly which is made a great matter against me by him that doeth the same thing himself against others But now I wil speak of them a part The Israelites that rent themselves from Iudah I take to be a false church and so continued whiles they dwelt in the land After they were dispersed and were no church The first I shew thus The twelve tribes by Gods institution were all one church both in Moses time when they had the Tabernacle among them and encamped all round about it in the order set of God Num. 2. and after in the land of Canaan whiles the Tabernacle stood when the Temple was built by Solomon both which were signes of Gods presence and dwelling with his church And to keep them in this unitie he commanded all the men of Israel to come joyntly togither from all parts of the land three times every yere to worship him and keep their solemne feasts in that one place which he should choose and at all other times to offer their sacrifices there and in no other place and thither onely to bring their first fruits their commanded and their voluntarie oblations Exod. 23. 14. 17. 19. Deut. 12. 5. 6. 7. Who so did otherweise blood was imputed unto that man and he should be cut off from among his people to keep the people from offring their sacrifices unto Divils Levit. 17. 3. 4. 7. Now when the ten tribes revolted and made Ieroboam king then Israel forgat his maker and builded Temples Hos. 8. 14. For Ieroboam took counsel and made two calves of gold and sayd unto them Jt is too much for you to goe up to Jerusalem Behold thy gods ô Jsrael which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt and he set the one in Bethel and the other he put in Dan and this thing became a syn And he made an house of hye places and made priests of the lowest of the people which were not of the sonns of Levi. And he offred on the Altar which he had made in Bethel 1 King 12. 28. 33. And having cast off the Lords Priests Levites Ieroboam ordeyned him priests for the hie places and for the Divils and for the calves which he had made but such of all the tribes of Israel as set their harts to seek the Lord God of Jsrael went to Jerusalem to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers 2 Chron. 11. 14. 15. 16. Thus of one daughter of Sion one â—hurch there became two women or daughters the one to weet Jerusalem the tribe of Iudah the Lord named Aholibah that is My Tabernacle in her the other Samaria the ten tribes he named Aholah that is her own tabernacle So Israel was without the true God and without a teaching Preist and without Law 2 Chron. 15. 3. and the Lord was not with Jsrael 2 Chron. 25. 7. but at their first falling away he threatned by his Prophets that because Ieroboam had made himself other gods and molten images and cast the Lord behind his back Ieroboams house should be cut off and taken away aâ— dung and the Lord would smite Israel and root them up out of that good land which he gave to their fathers and would sâ—arter them beyond the river 1 King 14. 9. 15. Yet for to shew his patience towards his people whom he had chosen for his above all peoples of the earth and for to save his elect among them and to make the rest the more inexcusable he forbare them many yeres and by all the Prophets and all the Seers sayd unto them Turne ye from your evil wayes and keep my commandements my statutes yet they would not heare but hardned their necks and beleeved not in the Lord their God but rejected his statutes and his Covenant that he made with their fathers and folowed vanitie and became vaine and went after the heathen that were round about them and left all the commandements of the Lord their God therfore the Lord was very angrie with Jsrael and removed them out of his sight 2 King 17. 13. 18. From these and other the like testimonies against this people I gather that from the time they departed from the Lord from his Temple altars and holy signes of his presence with his people in Christ from his Priests and the lawfull sacrifices at Ierusalem which were figures of Christ and from the communion of their brethren the Iewes which remayned the church of Christ and made a new Temple altar priesthood and church of humane and synfull institution that this their church Temple preisthood and worship were false For that is trueth which agreeth with the will and word of God all humane devices in religion are lyes and vanities If it be â—ayd the Lord himself rent the kingdom from Solomons son and gave it to Ieroboam 1 King 11. 29. 31. and therfore this second church was also of divine institution I answer though God divided the kingdom yet he divided not the church there might have been twelve kings over the twelve tribes as there were of old twelve princes Numb 1. 5. 16. and yet they should have been one Church The kingdom or Civil state is an ordinance immediately under God Rom. 13. the church or ecclesiastical state is an ordinance immediately under Christ the mediator and he is the head of the bodie the church Colos. 1. 18. The civil state is above the ecclesiastical as God is the head of Christ therfore the Church is to be subject to the Magistrate the higher power the minister of God though he be an heathen Rom. 13. 1. c. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. for the civil state is not taken away by difference of religion error heresie or any apostasie from Christ but the ecclesiastical state is by such things dissolved the Candlestick the church may be removed and of a Church of Christ become a Synagogue of Satan 1 Joh. 2. 18. 19. Rev. 2. 5. 9. In their civil state the Israelites were to be subject unto Nebuchadnezar an heathen when he conquered them Ier. 27. 6. 8. 12. but for their ecclesiastical estate they might never submitt to Nebuchadnezars church or priests nor offer to God upon any of his altars So to Ieroboam as king they might be subject without dissolving their communion in the mysteries of Christ set in the Temple altars priests
6. 28. 29. 30. Ezek. 13. 14. ch And againe As if there were no difference to bee put between the Temple of God and that lawlesse one 2. Thes. 2. 4. 8. nor between the people of God and Babylon Rev. 18. 4. 8. c. Answ. I deny not all calling of God in her as he accuseth me to it I have before answered His comparison I deny In Iudah were the Lords prophets and priests in Rome none but the hierarchie which they say is the Man of syn no members but ulcers in the body Let them shew me a Ieremie or Zephanie now in Rome or a lawfull ministery of God therein as was in Iudah till the captivity reckned by the holy Ghost 1. Chron. 6. 3. 15. Let them shew me a company that abstaineth from and crieth out against their abominations in Rome as was in Iudah and Ierusalem Ezek. 9. 4. or a basket of good figgs which God acknowledged for his people Ier. 24. 2. 5. 6. Finally they still plead for Rome by the name of Ierusalem when the holy Ghost calleth it Babylon Rev. 17. 18. chap. Such calling as was out of Babylon I grant unto them As for the Temple of God I have before answered their plea from the same They pleaded the publick record of holy mariage the scripture and the ministerie c. I answered the scripture sheweth no such mariage but doth defie her as an harlot Rev. 17. 1. Where is the record that Christ was ever maried to the Beast that came up from the bottomless pit Rev. 17. 8. If her having the book of holy scripture in an unknown tongue wickedly abused to maintain her whoredomes and abhominations and subjected to the interpretation of her Lord God the Pope bee a record of that holy mariage the Iewes which have Moses and the Prophets read and expounded in their mother tongue have better records c. Mine opposite sayth The Scripture sheweth record of the mariage of that church Rom. 1. 7. 8. 7. 4. 16. 19. Answ. It is denyed for this is not that church but an other harlot arisen since falsly boasting to be the same 2. That church consisted of officers and people all joyntly maried to Christ Rom. 12. if this record will serve now for the people of Rome it will serve also for the Bishop and ministerie of Rome the hierarchie which they confesse to be the Man of syn 2. Thes. 2. the great Antichrist so then the Scripture sheweth belike that Christ and Antichrist have been maried together And seeing the mariage of Christ with his Church is by faith Hos. 2. â—0 and the Pope hath still the same faith that the people hath his mariage standeth as well as theirs 3. The Scripture sheweth like mariage with the churches of Ephesus Philippi Thessalonica and many other which have revolted to Mahomet as Rome hath to the Man of syn so then we must account those Churches still maried unto Christ by the same record But they will deny those churches to continue the mariage so doe I this Besides if he had considered the scripture Rev. 19 7. 8. he might have seen a new mariage between Christ and his Church which needed not have been if the former mariage had continued undissolved as he supposeth Object Neither is it any thing that he sayth God doth defie her as an harlot Rev. 17. 1. For besides that he putteth no difference between Babylon and the Church or Temple of God what wil he say to Jsrael yea to Judah also and Ierusalem thinks he not that God defied them also as harlots Ier. 3. 8. 11. with Esai 1. 21. c. yet the scripture shewes record of â—hew mariage with God Exod. 19. 4. 5. 6. Ezek. 16. 8. c. Answ. What difference hee would make between the Whore of Babylon Rev. 17. and the Church of Rome whom himselfe proclaimeth to be a notorious harlot and idolatress I cannot comprehend Some that are dazeled may think one thing to be two or three I find in Rev. 17. but one notorious harlot Babylon if they grant that she was never maried to Christ it is all that I desire That Israel the twelve tribes was maried to Christ and after ten of them became an harlot and was divorced I grant and so her adulterous sister Iudah afterward The same I acknowledge for the churches of Rome Corinth Ephesus c. But since they were divorced from Christ and maried to Mahomet and Antichrist there remaineth no more record of their former mariage ill they returne again to the Lord out of Babylon unto Ierusalem the holy citie which is prepared as a Bride adorned for her husband Rev. 21. 2. Of my next words mine opposite maketh a wonderment But it exceedeth all sayth he that he blusheth not to aske where is the record that Christ was ever maried to the beast that came up from the bottomless pit Rev. 17. 8. To the beast That Christ was ever maried to the Beast Did Mr. Junius ever say so Or thinks he that ever it entred into his thought Did not Mr. Junius speak expresly of the Church Wil this man never learne to put difference between the Beast and the Church between the Man of syn and the Temple of God c. Answ. It seemeth that his wonder made him to forget himselfe Sayd he not even now it was evident that Mr. Iunius in one respect acknowledged the Hierarchy to be an order or estate of apostasie in the Church and in another respect he esteemed the ministery of Gods holy things to be there So then though the Hierarchy onely be the Beast as mine opposite thinketh and though in respect of the Apostasie it is not maried to Christ yet in respect as it is Gods ministerie though corrupted it is maried to Christ. But behold how their doctrines are admirable to themselves The ministers of the Church of Rome are of the same religion faith and holines with the people the people hee will have to bee still maried to Christ but the ministers in no weise he cannot endure to heare of it especially when it cometh under the scripture names of the Man of syn or the Beast And where he asketh if I wil never learn to put difference between the Beast and the Church c. I doe put difference though not so great as he would have me for the Beast and the whore that rideth him Rev. 17. though they differ yet are they so neerly conjoyned that if one be maried to Christ the other is also But why doth he not teach from the scriptures what the Beast signifieth I have learned from the Prophet Daniel that a Beast meaneth a Kingdom Dan. 7. 23. and a kingdom by light of reason consisteth of King and subjects of governours and people and Mr. Iunius himselfe telleth us so saying A kingdom is a multitude of men gathered under one King As the Christian kingdom therefore consisteth of Christ his ministers
is not true baptisme I constantly affirme so did Mr. Iohnson himselfe whiles he stood in and wrote for the truth That the Papists have turned baptisme into an idoll I have also formerly proved and wil maintain against his answers That therefore it is detestable and cursed unto them through their abuse of it doth necessarily follow for the sacrifice of the wicked is an abominatiō to the Lord Pro. 15. 8. That it should be no better then the dayly washing of our face is wrongfully imputed to us and Mr. Cl. whom hee citeth in his margine professeth to hold no such thing For our dayly washing is no religious action nor sacrament at all but baptisme by hereticks and apostates is a religious action after their manner and a false sacrament therfore neither true neither yet none at all as our opposite with us once professed Apolog. p. 110. Insted of proving it true baptisme hee bringeth reasons to shew that if it were an idol and lying signe it ought to be renounced and an other received This he knoweth the Anabaptists doe practise so it is no conviction of them all But he bendeth his force now against us and leaveth them Let us try what he sayth 1. Because sayth he idols and lying signes and fictions are not of God but of the Divil who is a liar and father thereof Ioh. 8. 44. Rom. 3. 4. Answ. I grant that which he sayth but he concludeth not the question Idols so farr as they are idols and lies are wholly of the Divill and so farr forth to be renounced But some idols and lies are made of Gods true ordinances and of his good creatures as Paul sayth of the Gentiles that they changed the truth of God into a lye and worshiped and served the creature Rom. 1. 25. Here the Gentiles lie is to be doen away and their idolatry renounced but the truth of God is to be reteined and a holy use of the good creature may be had which they abused So wee have renounced the popish idolatry and lies which they have brought upon Gods sacraments but the truth we reteyne 2. An idol or such a baptisme as is no more then a dayly washing of our faces cannot be the signe and seale of Gods true and everlasting covenant c. Answ. I grant it and from his own words conclude against him Baptisme in the Church of Rome is formerly proved to be an idoll because they give to the creature and work of mans hands that honour which is due unto Christ onely Therefore it cannot bee a signe and seale of Gods everlasting covenant by his owne grant As for us we reteyne no idoll but Gods truth onely as before I shewed 3. The signe in a Sacrament is that which is outward and visible which in baptisme is washing with water in the name of the Lord. Jf this be a fiction and lying signe in the churches aforesayd then is it not the Lords and they there baptised have not then the outward visible signe which the Lord ordained to be had of his people and therefore are bound to get it unto them where it may be had Rom. 4. 11. 6. 3. 4. Act. 10. 47. 48. c. Answ. 1. The first part of his reason is unperfectly set down for washing with water is a signe of the washing away of sinns by and in Gods institution onely by which institution it is to bee ministred to none but the faithfull and their seed Act. 8. 36. 37. 2. 38. 39. If it be not ministred according to this ordinance of God it is not the signe of his grace in that abuse though it be the thing which God in the right use hath appoynted for a signe 2. Hee would deceive his reader as if we held washing should be with any other creature then water or in any other name then the Lords These things wee know are in themselves the true ordinances of Christ but by Antichrist turned to a lye whiles hee falsly applyeth them to his adulterous synagogue which Christ hath given to his Church onely and whiles hee idolatrously giveth that grace to the work of his sacrilegious priests which is peculiar to Christ and his bloud It is the true signe of the covenant of Christ which is by Antichrist turned to a lye and if we should devise to our selves any other signe we should be lyars like him who hath devised creame spittle and other like elements synfully joyned with his baptisme 4. That also is to be doen without delay seeing the neglect of baptisme is sin and no unbaptised may eat of the Lords Supper c. Answ. It is true and so we if we had not been baptised with water c. would doe it without delay But hee trifleth insisting upon the outward element which he knoweth we had and leaveth the main thing the relation to the covenant of grace which we had not in that Antichristian synagogue 5. Jf any reteine an idol baptisme c. and presume to come to the Lords table they eat judgement to themselves Answ. We reteyne no idoll baptisme but have put away the idoll and the lye and reteyne the truth onely as before is shewed The same we answer to his sixt reason which is but a repetition and inlargement of his former as is his manner 7. Neither can it be thought that repentance which still they speak of should ever make a lye to be a truth and idol to be Gods ordinance c. For though repentance findeth mercy with God for a lye yet a lye is a lye stil and an idol-vanity Zach. 10. 2. Ier. 10. 8. Ioh. 8. 44. 14. 6. 17. 17. with 2. Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. Answ. It is true of such idols and lies as the Scriptures which he citeth speaketh of but there are other idols and lies which by men are made of God himselfe and of his word and ordinances which by Gods grace upon mens repentance and faith are restored to the first truth As the Gentiles changed the truth of God into a lye Rom. 1. 25. and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image Rom. 1. 23. and Israel changed God their glory into the similitude of an Oxe Psal. 106. 20. When they repented of their changing the truth into a lye they reteyned the truth still and kept that God whom before they ignorantly worshiped and of whom they had made an idoll to themselves Act. 17. 23. So for Gods ordinances as if the Israelites had made idols of Jachin and Boaz the two sacramentall pillars in the Temple 2. Chron. 3. 17. and had burnt incense to them as they did to the brazen Serpent 2. King 18. 4. they should have repented of and put away their idolatry but have reteyned those pillars still for such signes as God had ordeyned them But such pillars and posts as Israel had invented of their own heads and set them by the Lords posts Ezek. 43. 8. no repentance could make them
the righteousness of saith and forgivenes of their sinns in that sinful estate Thus I shewed Gods words not mine own for oracles He asketh if we wil be wiser and more righteous then God himself who accounted them stil to be his people under his covenant and himselfe to be their God and upon this ground called them to repentance c. Answ. All this notwithstanding whiles they continued unrepent and unbeleeving and hardned their necks against the Lord their God c. their circumcisim by Pauls doctrine was made uncircumcision Rom. 2. 25. their sacrifices were an abomination to the Lord Prov. 15. 8. And hee might have seen in the Scriptures that though Israel were divorced from the Lord Ier. 3. 8. and not his people or wife nor he her husband Hos. 1. 9. 2. 2. yet they are in respect of their former state their continuall profession and the future mercie towards them called Gods people still even till Christs time Esai 11. 11. 16. Amos. 9. 14. That he should not urge a phrase as his manner is against the plain doctrines of the Scripture Obj. What wil they say to the circumcision of Judah in their apostasie c. was it also among them none of Gods ordinance but an idol c. Answ. It was Gods ordinance though abused by the unworthy receivers as before is shewed But he from a false church and Babylon flâ—eth to Sion the true Church corrupted which is his perpetuall fallacie If Iudah or any Church in the world had doen with the sacraments as Rome hath doen they had changed them into idols contrary to the 2. commandement But Iudah never did so with circumcision and the Passover he sheweth no word of God to prove it Obj. Have the gates of hell more prevailed against the Christian Church since Christs coming then they did or could against the Church of the Iewes before his coming in the flesh Mat. 16. 18. Answ. This old popish reason hath been often answered by many Writers against the Antichristians and is of no more force for Rome turned to Antichrist then for Ephesus Corinth and other churches turned to Mahomet For what priviledge besides a popish dreame had Rome above Ephesus Should it because it crucified Christ and is therefore cursed above all cities have prerogative above Ephesus wherin was a church in Pauls time which was the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 1. 3. 3. 15. yet is that church long since cut off but Romes church must continue for her good service to Divils and idols Rev. 9. 20. and for worshiping the Beast Rev. 13. He might have seen in Rev. 12. that the woman the Church perisheth not though she be fled into the wildernesse from the presence of the Serpent and synagogue of Antichrist His other repetitions again and again are before answered Obj. The ordinances of God may in any churches become unprofitable to men by their own sinns circumcision may be made uncircumcision to such as break the Law c. Rom. 2. 25. 26. so baptisme now But shall we therefore say that they are not in such churches to such persons the Lords ordinances nor his true signes and sacraments but idols and lying signes c. Was the Lords table in the Church of Corinth a table of Divils or the Lords Supper an idoll or lying signe c. to such as eat it unworthily Was it not the Lords ordinance and true sacrament though sinfully abused by them c. Ans. The Lords ordinances abide alwayes the same and holy in themselves howsoever abused by Christians by Antichristians by Iewes Turks or Pagans to their perdition Neither is there a like degree of abuse in all neither doth every abuse make a thing an idoll but when the honour due to God alone is given to a creature then it is made an idoll and so I have proved is doen in the church of Rome to which proofs he answereth not I instanced the Lords Supper in Rome whereof they have made an abominable idoll worshiping a peece of bread as their maker Mine opposite will never mention or meddle with this but shunneth it as convinced in conscience And from Antichrists church runneth to the Christian Church in Corinth and asketh if the Lords table there were a table of Divils I answer No not then in Corinth but now in Rome they have made it by their idolatrous Masse a table of Divils and as Moses sayd of Israel they sacrificed to Divils not to God Deut. 32. 17. so say I of these Antichristians their sacrifice of the altar is a sacrifice to Divils not to God This he should have disproved if he could have doen it and not to leave the persons and things whereof wee dispute and run to others So the Lords baptisme they have turned into an idol ascribing the gift of grace which onely is Gods to water words and works of men that as the Gentiles turned the truth of God into a lye Rom. 1. these Gentiles also have turned the truth of God and of his sacraments into lyes And as the Lords incense and sacrifices were an abomination to him from the hands of wicked sinners Esai 1. 13. Prov. 15. 8. so the Lords sacraments are an abomination to him from the hands of Antichristians And as hee doth so ought all his people to esteeme of them and not to regard lying words of such as cry nothing but the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord the sacraments and ordinances of the Lord to deceive Gods people and to harden the synners in their wicked works Wheras I distinctly shewed the idolatry committed in Antichrists baptising of his subjects partly by perverting the holy signes as the Israelites did the brasen serpent â— King 1â— 4. partly by inventing signes of his owne as crosses exorcismes c. Mine opposite first †censureth the things I wrote to be notable shifts errours contradictions abuse of scriptures vain distinctions and odious assertions Such grace hath flowed from his tongue and pen. 1. Observe sayth he a needless distinction of idols nothing helping for the question in hand Answ. The distinction is true and needfull to discern the truth of the question against his clamorous reproches as if I called Gods ordinance in it self considered an idoll 2. Jf they mean sayth he that baptisme there had is an idol of both sorts they doe the more increase their errour Answ. I doe so meane yet is there no increase of errour I heare his bold words but no proof 3. They speak of crosses exorcismes c. whereas we speak of the baptisme it selfe Ans. So doe I but of popish baptisme mixed with Christs ordinances and Antichrists together All parts of a thing put together make the whole and it is deceitfull dealing to dazel mens eyes with the whores golden cup and to passe by the abominable ingredients the fornications that are in it when both are joyned together Rev. 17. 4. 4. They speak
of the abuse our question is of the thing it selfe notwithstanding their sinful abuse Ans. Our question is of popish baptisme which cannot bee rightly handled without looking to their abuses for how should we judge of the heathens worship and sacrifices if wee looke not upon their abuses as Paul doth in Rom. 1. The same I answer to his 5. exception of their opinions and errours Take away the errours of actions and what fault can we finde with any 6. If the Romish baptisme be a lye in the right hand of all that receive it then of infants then also in their own right hand that were baptised there Not to speak of the Martyrs c. Ans. There is no respect of persons with God Bee they old or yong better or worse syn is syn in all Though Gods grace in Christ purgeth syn from his elect which remaineth in the reprobates His 7. 8. and 9. exceptions are vain and repetitions of former things without conviction If Bellarmine or any speak truth wee may speak it with them so Paul speaketh with the heathen Poets Tet. 1. 12. 13. Act. 17. 28. 10. Jf they mean the true sacraments in Christs Church seale not up to Gods people forgiveness of sinns it is an errour if they meane that they doe not themselves take away sinns and conferr grace they use shifts and keep not to the poynt of the relation here spoken of and as it is appoynted to bee by the Lord himself Answ. The first I grant him and hee knew well it was not my meaning The latter I have proved that they being under Gods wrath 2. Thess. 2. have no seale from God of forgivenesse of synns in that estate And their doctrine of conferring grace by the work doen is hereticall and idolatrous which he not being able to gainsay puts it away as his manner is with a shift 11. From Gods sentence of condemnation touching Antichrist and his adhaerents they reason to Gods baptisme never condemned by the Lord but still continued in the Church and Temple of God where Antichrist sitteth Ans. Of his own mouth let him be judged Wee reason onely of Antichrist and his adherents the Whore of Babylon or adulterous church which hee sayth are condemned of God How then doth God give them the signe and seale of grace forgivenesse of synns Gods baptisme wee condemne not neither our Lords Supper but Antichrists Christening and Masse we deny to be Christs baptisme and supper Hee still beggeth the question which he should prove And let him take away Antichrist and his adhaerents and the church of Rome whereof we reason wil be vanished as smoke and come to nothing as take away Christ and his adhaerents so there will bee no Christian Church nor sacraments to be found 12. From the brasen serpent which was but a temporary and extraordinary signe the use whereof was ceased when it was thus perverted c. they reason to baptisme which is an ordinary signe whose use still continueth and may never be taken away or destroyed to the end of the world Ans. We reason not from the one to the other but by the abuse of the one we shew the abuse of the other And what is this in him but a shift to plead the temporarinesse of that signe For if they had burnt incense to it in the wildernesse or if they had burnt incense to the Cherubims or brazen Bulls or pillars which were continued signes they had made idols of them nevertheless Otherweise the wheaten god in the Popish supper is no idol seeing the use of the Lords Supper continueth to the worlds end as well as baptisme And hitherto of the shifts as he calleth them wherein how he hath shifted in sted of answering by the word of truth the wise reader may see Like these are his catalogue of Errours 1. That the baptisme had in the church of Rome is an idol c. Ans. 1. This is proved by the 2. commandement Exod. 20. whiles they ascribe divine honour to the creature 2. It is proved also by his owne assertion that bookes of prayer read for prayer are idols as before I shewed from his words in his last book 3. He sheweth not one word to prove it an errour in me but sayth Of which more hereafter Thus vain tantologies are his arguments to oppose the truth which he calleth Errour 2. That whereas idols are of two sorts both the kinds are in Popish baptisme Jf it be as the brazen serpent that from an holy signe was perverted to an idol it should presently be destroyed as 2. King 18. 4. Answ. I deny his inference If they had burnt incense to the Temple should it have been destroyed The brazen serpent was named but for an instance to shew that holy signes may be made idols by wicked men This doctrine hee being not able to convince leaveth it and would evade by the destroying of it As if all idols must bee destroyed The heathens made idols of the Sun Moon Starrs Beasts Fishes Mountaines Lakes c. Must all these therefore be destroyed If men make an idol of their King as did the Babylonians Dan. 6. 7. must the King presently be destroyed whoever heard of such divinity That which hee addeth of the Popes crossings exorcismes c. is before answered for he sayth Our question is of the baptisme it selfe as if those were not a part of Popish baptisme He would have wicked mens actions separated from all their synns errours and wickednes in doing them So in deed I could justifie all idolatry in the world for take away the errour and syn of an action and that which remaineth must needs be good 3. They say not they have renounced the abuses and kept the baptisme it selfe c. but say they have renounced that Romish baptisme as an impure idol in their abuse If they have in deed so doen then here again is notable errour and Anabaptistry And now then what outward baptisme have they remaining to themselves Ans. Neither doth Solomon say the abuse of the wickeds sacrifice is an abomination and except the sacrifice as holy but he sayth expresly The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord Prov. 15. 8. He was answered before to his two baptismes outward and inward that the Apostle and elsewhere himselfe maketh but one baptisme Eph. 4. 5. And the outward part thereof we reteyne as now sanctified to us of God as the outward cutting of the idolatrous Israelites was to them that repented 2. Chron. 30. Ezr. 6. 21. which again he putteth off till afterwards 4. Note also that the brazen Serpent was not in deed an idol but an holy ordinance of God which in time came to be idolatrously abused c. Ans. He sayth all things but proves nothing It was in deed an idol and an holy ordinance idolatrously abused also These things stand well together The Sun was in deed an idoll to them that worshiped it and yet it was
a good creature of God also idolatrously abused The bread in the sacrament is in deed an idoll to Papists that worship it as their maker yet is it also in it selfe Gods ordinance idolatrously abused so is popish baptisme Hee might even as wel say that Reubens fact in lying with his fathers concubine was not in deed adultery but an abuse of Gods ordinance of mariage or a defiling of his fathers bed Gen. 35. 22. 49. 4. 5. Moreover the brazen Serpent was but a temporary ordinance c. Ans. This was the twelft of his shifts before now hee repeateth and multiplieth it among his Errours I refer the reader to my former answer 6 That the Romish baptisme is an impure idol in their abuse standing up in the place of Christ and his precious blood which it is not pretending to give grace c. which it doth not But the baptisme in the church of Rome is Gods ordinance had and planted there by the Apostles c. These are the errours and abuses of men about it not the nature of the baptisme it selfe Otherweise all that have received it ought to renounce it utterly and to get an other outward baptisme c. Answ. This also was before objected and answered and it is a world to see how he wearieth his reader with repeating worthlesse reasons Sacrificing among the heathens I have before proved was Gods ordinance So was the Lords supper in the church of Rome in the Apostles time so was excommunication so was the Ministery of Bishops c. These have been continued in Rome with their baptisme may we not say therefore the Masse is an idoll or that the Bishop the Pope of Rome now is an idol and Antichrist Of our getting an other baptisme which is the usuall foot and base of his arguments we have before spoken that which he could not take away Obj. Wil these men say that we can without sin reteine any thing and not utterly reject it that standeth up in the place of Christs precious blood c. Ans. We cannot indeed without syn reteyne it while so it standeth neither doe we so reteyn it far be it from us Neither might the Gentiles reteyn the lye which they had made of the truth of God Rom. 1. 25. But when the lye was doen away and God restored to them his former trueth that they were to reteyn The idolatrous Israelites if they had set up their own blood of circumcision in place of Christs blood might not without syn have reteyned it whiles so it stood Yet repenting of their idolatry they might keep the outward signe without repeating it even so we in this case Obj. Errors and abuses of men may hurt themselves but cannot change the nature of Gods ordinance in it selfe Answ. Not in it selfe I grant considered without their abuse but togither with their abuse Gods ordinance of sacrifice incense c. is an abomination to him Prov. 15. 8. Esa. 1. 13. So baptisme and the Supper now in Rom are abominations to the Lord. Obj. Mans unbeleefe cannot make the faith of God of none effect God is true though every man be a lyar Rom. 3. 3. 4. Ans. What may we think would he conclude from this Scripture To cite a place and leave it doubtfull what hee inferreth is to deceive the reader If he intend according to the question in hand that the sacraments are seales of grace and of salvation unto men whether they beleeve or doe not beleeve it is a notable errour overthrowing the Gospel and establishing the popish herefie of grace ex opere operato by the work doen. The Scriptures teach touching Gods vvord and promise that it profiteth not them that heare it if it be not mixed vvith faith in them Heb. 4. 2. if men beleeve not they shall not be established Esai 7. 9. but shall be damned Mark 16. 16. they shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on them Ioh. 3. 36. Neither is the faith of God by mens unbeleef made without effect For his truth and faithfulnesse is confirmed as well in damning unrepentant unbeleeving synners as in saving those that repent and beleeve When the righteous turneth from his righteousnes and committeth iniquitie he shall dye in his iniquity and yet the way of the Lord is equall as sayth the prophet Ezek. 18. 24. 25. 26. Again as all men naturally are lyars and doe faile and break covenant on their part by syn which God never doeth so if they continue in syn and turne not to the Lord by repentance and faith they all perish Luk. 13. 3. 5. Rom. 8. 6. 10. 1. Cor. 6. 9. 10. Jude v. 5. But let men repent and turn from their transgressions so iniquity shall not be their ruine Ezek. 18. 30. Otherweise it would follow that after men are entred into covenant with God are baptized though they fall frō Christ to Antichrist as the church of Rome hath doen though they fall to Mahomet as many East churches have doen though they turne to be Iewes or pagans and so dye yet they shall be saved for their unbeleef cannot make the faith of God of none effect But so to expound this Scripture Rom. 3. were to turn judgement into wormwood unto the destruction of mens soules And if mine opposite would not gather some such thing from it what will it help his plea for the baptisme of the church of Rome which is the whore of Babylon whom God hath devoted unto destruction except they repent Rev. 17. 18. chap. Obj. The Jewes in Christs time and before holding justification by circumcision workes of the Law set these up in the place of Christ his precious blood c. Should we therfore say that circumcision was then an impure idoll in their abuse c. Or should wee not rather learn to put difference between Gods ordinance in it selfe and between mans abuse thereof c. Ans. Whensoever Iew or Gentile held justification by circumcision sacrifice or works of the Law they made their sacraments sacrifices and workes idols impure idols to themselves in their abuse And it is admirable that men teaching religion should bee ignorant that whatsoever creature or work of man is put in the place of God and Christ it is therby made an idol though Gods ordinances and the workes of his Law in themselves are alwayes good but turned to idols are alwayes evill and an abomination to the Lord as is before proved What mouth can deny but the Papists are idolaters in praying to Saints and Angels If idolaters then they serve idols if they serve idols in so praying then the Saincts and Angels are idols to them in their synfull abuse Yet who knoweth not that the Saincts and Angels in heaven are blessed and holy and not Idols in themselves But this is mine opposites continual fallacie wherby he would deceive his reader that because Baptisme and the Lords supper are Gods holy ordinances in themselves therfore