some deale here before These be the matters wherein you and your ignorant felow ministers gladly shewe your vile railinge and scoffinge eloquence Yet concerninge the doctrine of pardons least I saie nothinge this much I haue thought good to saie here In the Sacramente as wel of Baptisme as of penaunce al the bandes of sinne are loosed and the whole euerlastinge paine due to sinne is forgeuen At Baptisme no temporall paine is enioyned to vs because Christe moste freely bestoweth the benefite of his death vpon vs at that our firste entrie into the Churche But if afterwarde we abuse his mercie returninge againe to filthy sinne Christe would our seconde thirde and al other reconciliations from thence foorth to be with due satisfaction not of his dreadful angre whiche onely his bloude and the Sacrament of penaunce by due contrition and confession in deede or in vowe receiued is able to remoue but with satisfactiō of such temporal paine as his mercifull iustice required bothe of all others from the beginninge and namely of Kinge Dauid To whome confessinge his faulte Nathan saide Our Lorde hath put a way thy Sinne thou shalte not die Beholde the forgeuenesse of the mortal sinne and of the euerlastinge paine due to the same But yet so is it forgeuen that withal it is transferred into a temporal satisfaction VVhat was that It foloweth in the storie that bicause Dauid through his aduoutrie and murther had caused the ennemies of God to blaspheme his holy name the childe borne of the wife of Vrias should surely die And so it came to passe If the death of a Sonne be so greuous a punishment to a good Father that King Dauid was content to praie to faste to lie on the groūde afflicting him selfe seuen daies onely to trie whether he might as it were by exchaunge bie out the death of his Sonne and yet so could not obteine his desire we may be most certaine that the very best frendes of God sinning after Baptisme or circuncision whiche in the olde lawe stode in place thereof muste by ordinary course sarisfie with some temporall affliction that iuste iudgement of our merciful Make and Redeemer if farther grace be not founde by some other waie This satisfaction hath benne therefore iustly called the thirde and last parte of penaunce VVhiche if it be not fulfilled in this life vndoubtedly it shal be straightly exacted in the worlde to come in the fire of Purgatorie For that sinnes maye be in an other worlde forgeuen to those who die not in the deadly bondes of them our Sauiour hath geuen vs to vnderstande sayinge That the sinne against the Holy Ghost shal not be forgeuen neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come whereof it appeareth that somme other Sinnes may be forgeuen in the worlde to come VVell this satisfaction may notwithstanding be fulfilled more then one waie For a man beinge once by the Sacrament of penaūce iustly reconciled to the mystical Body of Christe which is his Church wherein as the Prophete saithe a faithfull man is made partaker of al that feare God and keepe his commaundementes we haue in that bande of peace suche an vnitie of Spiriie communicated to vs al that the defect of one may be in spirituall causes supplied out of the plenty of all others his felowe membres accordinge as the Apostle saithe Beare ye one an others burdens And because the Head whiche is Christe is the chiefe membre of all and farre more then all the rest such influence is from him deriued throughout his mysticall Body that euen his death may as well inwardely by charitie as outwardly by another waie also be applied to vs for the pardoninge of that temporal satisfactiō which after the Sacrament of penaunce is lefte vnforgeuen And that is by such authoritie as Christ gaue to Peter saying To thee I will geue the Keies of the Kingedome of Heauen and what so euer thou bindest in Earth it shal be bounde also in Heauen and what so euer thou loosest in Earth it shall be loosed also in Heauen Lo what so euer Peter looseth in earth it shall be loosed in the sight of God If therefore the Pope who succedeth Peter do by iuste cause loose not onely the mortall Sinne by the sacrament of penaunce but also the bande of Temporall paine whiche remaineth yet due to to the Sinne it is vndoubted that suche paine is loosed in the sighte of God The cause of loosinge must be not onely the will of the Pope who is put in Authoritie to builde and not to destroy to dispense and not to lauishe but a reasonable change or recompence substituted in that behalfe suche as apperteineth to the Honour of God or to the profite of soules As mainteininge warr and fightinge against infidels for the defence of Christendome recouery of the Sepulchre of Christe succouringe widowes Orphanes or other poore persons the buildinge or mainteininge of Holy places the visitinge of Prisons and Martyrs toumbes or any like Deuout and Charitable deedes VVhiche whiles the faithfull Christian dothe obediently performe although otherwise the thinge enioyned be not great he may obteine remission also of that temporall satisfaction whiche was left in penaunce vnremitted This kinde of Pardon S. Paule gaue to that notorious sinner who at Corinth had his Fathers wife and was for that faulte separated from the Churche of God to be afflicted temporally in his fleashe But when the Corinthians had informed S. Paule of his earnest and true repentance and had shewed their owne fauour and good willes towarde him the Apostle answeareth VVhome yee forgeue ought I also forgeue for I also in that I haue forgeuen if I haue forgeuen ought for your sakes in the person of Christe I haue forgeuen it VVell we are assured the Apostle speaketh of forgeuinge such afflictions as the partie was in by reason he was deliuered out of the defence of holy Church to that state where the Deuill as S. Chrysostome vpon that place noteth Pro solutione Peccatorum for payment of his Sinnes might vexe him and wherein suche persons beinge put to their penaunce vsed to remaine for a certaine space of moneths or yeeres vntill their penaunce were done and expired Now the reconcilinge of the man not yet hauing done due satisfaction before his ordinary time is a pardon VVhich the Apostle saithe he dothe geue in the person of Christe as hauinge auctoritie of him to doo it and for the Corinthians sakes as who were able by their Holy Praiers and common sorowe whereof the Apostle speaketh to make recompence for that whiche lacked on the behalfe of his owne satisfaction If this muche doo not satisfie any man desiringe to be fully resolued herein let him resorte to the Latine woorkes of the Holy and learned Bishop of Rochester The B. of Sarisburie These obiections ye saie in your pleasante homely comparison are as common with
who is the spiritual Kinge and hath geuen the keies of his Kingdome to his minister The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge yée roaâ—e and wander without a marke and replie to that that was not spoken I marueile whereof yée can spinne your selfe sutch idle talke For wée neither calle our Princes the Heades of the Churche of Christe it was your Fathers inuention and not ours nor saie wée They haue Power either to Excommunicate or to Binde or to Loose nor haue wée leasure to make sutche vaine Conclusians Thus wée saie the Prince is put in truste as wel with the Firste as with the Seconde Table of the Lavve of God that is to saie as wel with Religion and with Temporal Gouernemente not onely to kéepe and perfourme the contentes of Bothe Tables in his owne Persone for so mutche euery priuate man is bound to doo but also to sée that al others his Subiectes as wel Priestes as Laiemenne eche man in his callinge doo dewly kéepe them This is it that no Priuate man is hable to doo Therefore S. Augustine saithe In hoc seruiunt Domino Reges in quantum sunt Reges cùm ea faciunt ad seruiendum illi quae non possunt facere nisi Reges Herein Kinges serue the Lorde in that they be Kinges when they doo those thinges to serue him that noman can doo but onely Kinges Wee saie not the Prince is bound to doo the Bishoppes deutie And therefore it is the greatter solâ—e of your parte M. Hardinge to obiecte it so often Wise menne vse not so to aduenture their woordes in vaine But thus wée saie The Prince to bounde to see the Bishoppes to doo theire deuties But what meante you so far out of season to talke so fondly of your Priuie Confessions of Bindinge and Loosinge and Povver of Keies For as it is saide before wée saie not that Princes maie either Binde or Loose or Minister Sacramentes or Preache the Gospel or sitte downe and Heare Confessions Therefore with al this greate adoo yée foine onely at your owne shadowe and hit nothinge Yée saie ful discretely Yf a man sinne onely in his harte the Kinge cannot haue to doo with him for that be cannot enter to knowe his secretes Here I beséeche you M. Hardinge what entrance hath the Pope to knowe the secretes of the Harte Perhaps yée wil saie the Pope maie knowe al the worlde by Confession But S. Augustine saithe Quid mihi est cum hominibus vt audiant Confessiones meas c. Vnde sciunt cùm à me ipso de me ipso audiunt an verum dicaÌ„ quaÌ„doquidem nemo scit hominuÌ„ quid agatur in homine nisi Spiritus hominis qui in ipso est What haue I to doo with these menne that they shoulde heare my Confessions c. Howe knowe they when they heare mee report of mee selfe whether I saie true or no For noman knoweth what is in man but the Sprite of man that is within him Againe he saithe vnto the people Intrantes vos exeuntes possumus videre Vsqueadeò autem non videmus quid cogitetis in cordibus vestris vt neque quid agaris in domibus vestris videre possimus Wee maie see you comminge in and goeinge foorth But wee are so far from seeinge the thoughtes of your hartes that wee cannot see what you doo at home in your houses Likewise againe he saithe Quid singulorum quorumque modò conscientiae dixerint ad aures meas quia homo sum peruenire non potuit Ille qui Absens est praesentia Corporis sed Praesens est Vigore Maiestatis audiuit vos What euery of your Consciences hath saide it coulde not enter into my eares for that I am but a Mortal man Notwithstandinge Christe that is Absente as touchinge the Presence of his Body but presente by the Power of his Maiestie hath hearde you wel It is not the Pope but God onely that trieth the reines and searcheth the harte Yet yée saie the True Supreme Heade of the Churche shal haue to doo with him that sinneth onely secretely in his harte For that malitious and sinful thought saie you shal neuer be foregeuen excepte the partie comme to be Absolued of theire Successours to whom Christe said VVhoes sinnes yee foregeue c. This M. Hardinge is the Supreme Folie of al others Folies For firste where euer hearde you that the Pope would lonce vouchesaue to Heare Confessions And if he woulde yet by yours owne Doctoures Iudgemente the Pope hath nomore Power to Binde and to Loose then any other Poore Simple Prieste As I haue shewed you before Alphonsus de Castro saithe Quando Absoluit Simplex Sacerdos tantum Absoluit de Culpa sicut Papa When a Simple Prieste Absolueth he Absolueth as mutche touchinge the faulte as if it were the Pope him selfe Origen saithe Quae sequuntur velut ad Petrum dicta sunt omnium communia c. Quod si nos idem loquimur quod Petrus loquutus est efficimur Petrus The woordes that folowe as spoken vnto Peter are common vnto al. If wee speake the saine that Peter spake then are wee made Peter Euen in the Popes owne Glose vpon his Decretalles it is noted thus In necessitate Laicus potest Audire Confessiones Absoluere In case of necessitie a Laieman maie bothe heare Confessions and also geue Absolution Yet wil yée not saie that euery Laieman is Peters Successoure To what pourpose then serueth al this your vaine talke M. Hardinge The true Supreme Head of the Churche shal haue to doo with him that sinneth onely in his harte For euery Simple Prieste hauinge the keie of Goddes Woorde entreth into the harte hath to doo with the same as wel and as mutche as the Pope in respecte of beinge Iudge of yâ— Conscience is aboue Kinges Princes nolesse then he But where yée saie The malitious and sinful thought shal neuer be forgeuen except the partie comme to be Absolued of theire Successours to whom Christe said whoe 's sinnes yee foregeue c. this Doctrine is not onely strange and false but also ful of Desperation Your owne Gratian saith Latentia peccata non probantur necessariò Sacerdoti confiteÌ„da It is not proued by any sufficieÌ„t Authoritie either of Scriptures or of Doctours that Secrete Sinnes are of necessitie to be vttered in Confession vnto the Prieste Againe he saithe Datur intelligi quòd etiam ore tacente veniam consequi possumus It is geuen vs to vnderstand that wee maie obteine pardone although wee vtter nothing with our Mouth And againe Non Sacerdotali iudicio sed largitate Diuinae Gratiae peccator emendatur The Sinner is cleansed not by the Iudgemente of the Prieste but by the abundance of Goddes Grace Againe he saithe Confessio Sacerdoti offertur in signum veniae non in causam Remissionis accipiendae Confession is made vnto the Priest in token of Foregeuenesse already obteined
is not Iustified by the VVoorkes of the Lawe but by the Faithe of Christe M. Hardinge wil saie Yet hitherto of Sola Fides that is of Onely Faithe wée heare nothinge Notwithstandinge when S. Paule excludeth al manner Woorkes bisides Onely Faithe what els then leaueth he but Faithe alone How be it if it be so horrible an Heresie to saye Wée be Iustified before God by Onely Faithe that is to saie Onely by the Merites Crosse of Christe let vs sée what the Holy Learned Fathers of the Churche so many hundred yéeres agoe haue taught vs thereof S. Ambrose saithe Iustificati sunt Gratis quia nihil Operantes neque vicem reddentes Sola Fide Iustificati sunt dono Dei They are Iustified Freely Bicause woorkinge nothinge and requitinge nothinge they are Iustified by Onely Faithe through the gifte of God Againe Sic decretum est à Deo vt cessante Lege Solam Fidem Gratia Dei posceret ad Salutem This was Goddes determination that the Lawe surceasinge the Grace of God shoulde require Onely Faithe vnto Saluation And againe Sola Fides posita est ad Salutem Onely Faithe is saide or appointed vnto Saluation S. Bastle saithe Nouis se esse inopem Verae Iustitiae Sola autem Fide in Christum esse Iustificatum He knoweth him selfe to be voide of True Righteousnesse and to be Iustified by Onely Faithe in Christe Theodoretus saithe Non vllis Operibus nostris sed per Solam Fidem Mystica bona consequuti sumus Not by any VVoorkes of ours but by Onely Faithe we haue gotten the Mystical good thinges Nazianzenus saithe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Credere solum est Iustitia Onely Beleeuinge is Righteousnesse Origen saithe Vbi est gloriario tua Exclusa est Dicit sufficere Solius Fidei Iustificationem ita vt credens quis TantuÌ„modo Iustificetur etiaÌ„si Nihil boni Operis fecerit VVhere nowe is thy boastinge of thy good Woorkes It is shutte out Paule saithe that the Iustification of Onely Faithe is Sufficiente So that a man Onely Beleeuinge maye be Iustified although he haue donne no good woorke at al. Hesychius saithe Gratia ex Misericordia atque Compassione praebetur Fide comprehenditur Sola The Grace of God is geuen onely of Mercie and Pauoure and is embraced and receiued by Onely Faithe I leaue a greate number of others that haue written the like as wel Gréekes as Latines In steede of them al S. Chrysostome saithe thus Illi dicebant Qui Sola Fide nititur Execrabilis est Hic contrà demonstrat eum qui Sola Fide nititur Benedictum esse They saide who so staieth him selfe by onely Faithe is accursed Contrarâ—ewise S. Paule prooueth that who so stayeth him selfe by Onely Faithe he is Blessed Touchinge the woordes of S. Iames yf M. Hardinge wel considered the Equiuocation or double vnderstanding of this woorde Iustification he might soone and easily haue espied his owne errour For when S. Paule saithe Abraham was Iustified by Faithe without VVoorkes of the Lawe he teacheth vs how Abraham was receiued into fauour and Iustified before God Of the other side S. Iames when he saithe Abraham was Iustified by VVoorkes and not by Faithe Onely he speaketh of the woorkes that folowe Iustification of the Fruites of Faithe Without whiche Fruites Abrahams Faithe had benne no Faithe S. Augustine saithe Non sunt contrariae duorum Apostolorum Sententiae Pauli Iacobi Cùm dicit Paulus Iustificari hominem sine Operibus Iacobus dicit inanem esse Fidem sine Operibus Quia Paulus loquitur de Operibus quae Fidem praecedunt Iacobus de ijs quae Fidem sequntur The saieinges of the twoo Apostles Paule and Iames are not contrarie where as Paule saithe A man is Iustified without Woorkes and Iames saithe Faithe without Woorkes is in vaine For Paule speaketh of the VVorkes that goe before Faithe James speaketh of the VVorkes that folowe after Faithe Yf M. Hardinge shal thinke S. Augustines authoritie herein is not sufficient Thomas of Aquine wil auouche the same His woordes be these Iacobus hic loquitur de Operibus sequentibus Fidem quae dicuntur Iustificare non secundum quod Iustificare dicitur Iustitiae infusio sed secundum quod dicitur Iustitiae Exercitatio vel Ostensio vel Consummatio Res enim dicitur fieri quando perficitur vel innotescit Iames in this place speaketh of sutche woorkes as folowe Faithe whiche woorkes are saide to Iustifie not as Iustification is the procuring of Righteousnesse but in that it is an Exercise or a shewinge or a Perfitinge of Righteousnesse For wee saye A thinge is donne when it is perfited or knowen to be donne Nowe concerninge the assurance or Certainetie of Saluation the Scriptures are fulle S. Paule saithe There is no damnation to them that be in Christe Iesu The Sprite of God beareth witnesse to our Sprite that wee are the Children of God I knowe that neither Deathe nor Life nor Angels nor Powers nor Principalities nor thinges presente nor thinges to come nor Highth nor Deapthe nor duy Creature els shal be hable to remooue me from that Loue that God beareth to wardes mee in Christe Iesu our Lorde But for as mutche as these woordes perhaps haue not the Sense of the Churche of Roome without whiche in M. Hardinges iudgemente the Scripture of God is no Scripture let vs sée the Sense and Exposition of the Holy Fathers Tertullian saithe Vt certum esset nos esse Filios Dei misit Spiritum suum in corda noâ—tra clamantem Abba Pater That wee might be certified that we bee the Children of God he hath sente the Holy Ghoste into our hartes crieinge Abba Father Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Re vera Sanguis Fidei est Spes in qua continetur vt Fides in anima Cùm autem Spés expirauerit perinde acsi sanguis effluxerit vltalis Fidei facultas dissoluitur In deede Hope is as it were the Bloudde of Faithe in whiche Faithe Hope is conteined euen as Faithe is conteined in the Soule And when Hope is gonne then is al the Liuely power of Faithe dissolued as if the Bloudde were sheadde out of the Body S Cyprian saithe Et tu dubitas fluctuas Hoc est Deum omninâ— non nosse Hoc est Christum Credentium Magistrum peccato incredulitatis offendere Hoc est in Ecclesia constitutum Fidem in Domo Fidei non habere And dooste thou stagger and stande in doubte of thy Saluation That were as mutche as not to knowe God that were as mutche as with the sinne of vnbeliefe to offende Christe the Maister of Beleeuers That were as mutche as beinge in the Churche in the House of Faithe to haue no Faithe Prosper saithe Securi diem Iudicij expectant quibus in Cruce Domini gloriantibus mundus Crucifixus est ipsi Mundo They vnto whome the worlde is Crucified and are Crucified vnto the worlde waite for the daye
of our parte Onely by Faithe ▪ yet S. Augustine saithe as it is saide before Habemus Christum in Presenti per Baptismatis Sacramentum Wee haue Christe Presently by the Sacramente of Baptisme Thus is Christe Presente vnto vs Of his parte Onely by his Grace Of our parte Onely by our Faithe By the Sacramentes Onely as by meane of outwarde Instrumentes to moue our senses This light and childishe errour as I haue saide before is called Ignoratio Elenchi and therefore séemeth to procede of Ignorance M. Hardinge should haue better examined the force of his Argumentes before he thus suddainely sente them abroade Touchinge the mater it selfe it is not the Bodily mouthe but Faithe alone that receiueth and embraceth Christes Body S. Augustine saithe Panis iste Interioris Hominis quaerit esuriem Qui credit in eum manducat This Breade requireth the hunger of the Inner Man He that beleeuth in him eateth his Body This is no tangling as you saie M. Hardinge It is the Auncient Catholique Doctrine of y◠Churche of God Wée be wel assured of it knowe certainely what wée saie But touching y◠certainetie of your Doctrine in this point I haue briefely touched it in my Former Replie so mutche as I then thought might séeme sufficiēte Somme of you hold y◠Christes Body passeth down into y◠stomake Somme y◠it entreth onely into the Mouthe goeth no further Somme others saie Quà m citò Species terūtur dentibus tam citò in Coelum rapitur Corpus Christi As soone as the Fourmes of the Breade be grated with the teeth streight waie the Body of Christe is caught vp into Heauen An other of you saithe A Mouse eateth the Body of Christe An other saithe Nay a Mouse cannot eate it Peter Lombarde the Grande Maister of al your Schoole is piteously confounded in the case and cannot imagine what to saie For after he had him selfe moued the question Quid igitur sumit Mus vel quid manducat What is it then that the Mouse receiueth or what eateth it He answeareth Deus nouit Novve God knovveth As for my parte I cannot tel Sutche be your Doctours M. Hardinge sutche is your Doctrine Therefore to conclude with your owne woordes it appeareth by your agréemente and your answeares ye vnderstande not the thinges ye speake of but both◠affirme and denie ye knowe not what M. Hardinge As ye procede foorth ye geue warninge to your Readers not to take you so as though ye held with transubstantiation And here ye speake thereof as best becommeth your scoffinge sprite callinge it a dreame of men of later times whereof they coulde neuer yet agree within them selues By whiche woordes your eloquence hath set foorth your spite and lieing at once For albeit the terme of transubstantiation be of no greater antiquitie then the Councel Laterane vnder Innocentius the thirde where it was by the Holy Ghoste and the Fathers there deuised as very fitte for opening of the Truthe impugned by the Berengarians yet is the Doctrine thereof no lesse Auncient then the Gospel it selfe For maugre the malice of the Deuil and of al the Sacramentaries the Olde Truthe shal preuaile by whiche we are taught that whiche was Breade by the Mystical blessinge to be made Christes Body and that whiche was wine to be made his Bloude as I haue other wheres sufficiently declared And the Churche hath alwaies hereupon perfitely accorded touchinge the Substance though certaine schoolemen in their Scholastical Disputations where oftentimes victorie is sought and Faith not impugned about discussion of somme schoole point haue without preiudice of our belefe disagreede The B. of Sarisburie As for the scoffes and spites and lies ye speake of M. Hardinge let him haue them that hath beste deserued them Then verily without greate wronge you cannot lose them Touching your New Fātasie of Transubstantiation whether it be a dreame or no whether the dreamers of it them selues were euer yet hable rightly to expoūd theire owne dreame it appeareth partely by your owne Confession Ye graunte the name and terme thereof was neuer knowen or hearde of in al the Worlde vntil your late Councel of Laterane holdē in Rome vnder Pope Innòcentius the thirde in the yeere of our Lorde a thousande two hundred and fiftéene in the time of Kinge Iohn the Kinge of England and neuer before So longe the Churche of God was hable wel to stande without your Transubstantiation And al be it ye tel vs notwithstandinge the newnesse of the name yet neuerthelesse the Doctrine thereof hath stil continewed in the Churche and hathe benne euermore receiued and confessed of al the Faitheful and that maugre the malice of the Diuel and of al the Sacramentaries it is as Ancient as the Gospel or as Christe him selfe Yet of y◠other side ye cōfesse plainely that for the space of twelue hundred yéeres and more Roman wiste by what name to calle it But for as mutche as you thinke it lawful for you to auouthe and affirme what you liste true or false without controlmente whereas ye saie this late Faithe of yours is as Auncient as the Gospel knowe you that somme of the beste learned of your owne side haue saide It is a nevve Pointe in Religion and therefore not so Auncient as you seeme to make it It is a doubteful Conclusion and therefore no Faithe at al. D. Tonstal thereof saithe thus De modo quo id fieret fortasse satius erat ▪ Curiosum quenque suae relinquere Coniecturae sicut liberū fuit ante Concilium Lateranum Of the manner and meane howe this might be whether by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had benne better to leaue euery man that woulde be Curious to his owne Coniecture as before the Councel of Laterane it vvas leafte at libertie You saie it is as Auncient as the Gospel D. Tonstal saith It is but new and came in twelue hundred yéeres and more after the Gospel You saie it is the Catholique Faith D. Tonstal saithe It is a Coniecture or a Gheasse whiche differeth not mutch from a dreame and that before the saide late Councel of Laterane noman vvas bounde to beleeue it And here it maie please you to consider indifferently with your selfe It it were leafte at Libertie as D. Tonstal saithe for any man either to receiue it or to refuse it as he thought good how could it then be the Catholique Faithe If it were the Catholique Faithe as you saie that maugre the malice of the Diuel howe then could it so many hundred yeeres be leafte at libertie Hereof ye saie ye haue written sufficiently otherwheres Al this I graunt your Bookes are knowen How be it if you woulde haue written nomore but Truethe ▪ ye might haue saued mutche time and spared somme paper But if it shal not mislike you once againe more aduisedly to viewe the same ye shal finde in the very Firste Diuision thereof thrée
at vs with the Iewes we dare not but Honour our Lorde Christe where so euer our Faithe findeth him verily and in Substance presente If through feruent zeale as sometimes it happeneth abuses in certaine places haue crepte in no good Catholike man defendeth them Mary wee knowe all is not to be abrogated that misliketh your corrupte taste And muche is righte Holy Deuotion pleasant in the sighte of God and therefore allowed in the Churche whiche your hote sprite calleth Idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse And though the Ceremonie and manner whereby sutche deuotion is shewed cannot be prooued by ordinance of Christe or of the Apostles expressed in Scripture yet Christen people doubte not but God accepteth their good hartes The Bishop of Rome ye blame vniustly I might saie also proudely For procuringe Honour and worship to Christe in the Blessed Sacrament he hath the * woorde of God * the authoritie of al Holy Fathers and the * examples of antiquitie as I haue at large proued in my answeare to your companion Maister Iuel his eight negatiue Article But the amblinge Horse offendeth you VVhy be ye not also offended with the Asse and her fole that bare the same Body at Ierusalem whiche the Horse beareth at Rome Then Visible and weightie nowe Inuisible and of no weight That was donne in Pompe to the honour of Christe and so is this Ye saie this is done after a new guise So then was that Neither is it true whiche ye saie that the Bishoppes of Rome doo carrie about with them the Sacramente whither so euer they iourney Ye might haue learned in that Booke our of whiche ye alleage that matter to scoffe at that suche a solemnitie is vsed specially when the Pope rideth in Pontificalibus Then as the Booke telleth a white Palfrey trapped gentill and faier with a cleare soundinge bell hanginge at his necke is lead which carrieth the Monstrance or Pixe with the most Holy Body of Christe ouer the whiche noble Citizens shal beare a Canopie Thus the Booke of Ceremonies And I praie you what euill is this If it be good to carry about that moste holy Body by whiche as Christe once redeemed vs so by the same deuotely honoured of faithefull people and carried abrode and brought to certaine places hath in olde times as yet also dothe continually to the greate comforte and helpe of sundry persons beinge in distresse wrought miraculousely healthfull remedies If the Israelites founde healpe at Gods hande by bringinge the Arke into the fielde with them as they marched forewarde againste the Philistians if the Philistians cried out for feare when they perceiued the Arke to be in the Israelites armie and saide Venit Deus in Castra Vae nobis God is come into their Tentes Alas we are vndone c. And concerninge the order of the Ceremonie whereas the people be desirous to beholde the Body of their Redeemer with their Faithe by their carnall ete directed to the Forme of Breade no man is able to holde vp on hie the Sacramente so as conuenient it were to be donne bothe to satisfie their Deuotion and to mainetaine their Faithe for the Pope him selfe commonly is an aged man and therefore ouer weake for that Seruice specially arraied in Pontificalibus as in suche solemnities he is Againe the instrument that serueth for that purpose is so greate and weighty for so it apperteineth to the honour of Christe the waie so longe the ayer for the more parte there so hote as no other man is well able for lacke of strength to beare it so as meete it is to be borne In this case †why may not a Horse be put to that seruice to supplie that whiche by naturall weakenesse faileth in man VVherein he serueth not as one that beareth a male but as the Asse that bare Christe as the Kine that drewe the Arke Neither ought the custome of bearinge the moste Holy Body of Christe where the Pope goeth seeme Newe and Strange For we Reade in the life of the Blessed Martyr Steuen the firste who was Pope of Rome aboue thirtene hundred yeres past that Tharsitius the Deacon who at length also suffred death for Christe bare our Lordes Body at what time he attended vpon the Blessed Man Pope Steuen as he went to his Martyrdome VVho desireth to see this described at large the same maie he finde in that Greate fonde Fabulare Simeon Metaphrasies a Greeke writer wel approued and highly esteemed in the Greeke Churche In vita Stephani Primi For witnesse whereof we haue S. Ambrose who describeth how certaine faithful persons caried this blessed Sacrament with them when they wente to the Sea of whome his Brother Satyrus obteined the same in a Shipwracke and by helpe thereof hanginge it in a stole about his necke seekinge for none other succoure caste him selfe into the Sea and miraculously escaped safe to lande Neither is the same by him done without a speciall Mysterie though vnknowen to the more parte Although saithe a learned Pope a reason cannot be geuen of al thinges what so euer haue benne brought in vre by our Forefathers yet I thinke quoth he that therein lie hidden profounde Mysteries I reporte me nowe to the secrete consciences of good Christen people whether the Bishoppes of Rome vse not the Blessed Sacrament reuerently and bonorably or no but rather as the Persians Fire and the Reliques of the Goddesse Isis as a stage Plaie madde gasinges and foolishe Gaudes as it liketh this wicked Chammes broode to raile VVherein they folowe the sheppes whiche Iulian the Apostata Lucian Porphyrius Celsus and sutche other Prophane Helhoundes haue trodden before them For after the like manner they railed at the Holy Mysieries of Christen Religion namely Celsus who as Origen writeth of him obiected to the Christians the Sacrifices of Mithra whiche was an Idoll that the persians woorshipped and called by the name of the Sunne from whence he saide they had taken all their Sacramentes Rites and Ceremonies And righte so as we finde in S. Augustine writinge against the Manichees the Paynâ—mes founde faulte with the Christen people for Honour donne to the * Body and Bloude of Christe vnder * Formes of Breade and VVine saitinge that they Honoured Bacchus and Ceres The B. of Sarisburie Concerninge these Satanical Sprites stinkinge breathes vile Woordes sutche other like flowers of your Eloquence M. Hardinge I confesse me selfe to be far inferiour and neuer hable to make you answeare It is true that ye saie The Woorkeman is woorthy of his hiere S. Paule saith The Lorde hath appointed that who so Preacheth the Gospel shoulde liue by the Gospel But where did Christe euer saie vnto you Goe into al the worlde and saie Priuate Masse and offer me vp vnto my Father for Remission of Sinnes What Apostle what Prophete what Doctour what Father euer taught you so
that by his Bloude al our spottes of Sinne be vvasshed cleane That he hath pacified and set at one al thinges by the Bloude of his Crosse That he by the same One onely Sacrifice whiche he once offered vpon the Crosse hathe brought to effecte and fulfilled al thinges that for y◠cause he said when he gaue vp the Ghoste It is finished as though he woulde signifie that the price and ransomme was nowe ful paide for the Sinne of al Mankinde If there be any that thinke this Sacrifice not sufficient let them goe in Goddes name seeke a better Wee verily bicause wee knowe this to be the Onely Sacrifice are wel contente with it alone and looke for none other and forasmutche as it was to be offered but Once we commaunde it not to be renewed againe and bicause it was ful perfite in al pointes and partes we doo not ordeine in place thereof any continual succession of offeringes M. Hardinge Ye make a Sophistical argumente when ye teache because the Lawe of God requireth of vs ful obedience that therefore it cannot be satisfied in this life by any meanes For when ye saie it requireth of vs ful obedience if ye meane suche ful obedience as is required onely in this life then conclude ye falsely that wee can by no meanes satisfie it But if ye meane suche ful obedience ‡ as is onely perfourmed in Heauen then ye conclude wel that wee in this life cannot fulfil suche perfection as is required in Heauen But then haue ye saide nothinge to the purpose For wee knowe what marke ye shoote at by your Doctrine vttered in other places Your meaninge is that no man in this Life is able by the Grace of God to fulfil the Commaundementes VVee beleeue God commaundeth vs nothinge impossible to vs. Otherwise howe coulde he iustly punishe for not doinge that commaundemente whiche by no meanes wee were able to fulfil VVee are sure that God punisheth noman vniustly for Non est apud dominum Deum nostrum iniquitas There is no iniquitie in Our Lorde God Moises speakinge of the fulfillinge of the Commaundementes of God whiche also S. Paule repeteth saithe that they are not aboue vs in Heauen neither farre from vs beyonde the Sea but harde by thee saithe he is his woorde in thy mouthe and in thy harte that thou maiste doo it And Christe saithe Iugum meum suaue est onus meum leue My Yoke is sweete and my burden light and S. Iohn His Commaundementes be not heauie He then that saithe we can by no meanes fulfil the Lawe of God maketh God vniust and euil or impotent and not able to geue so mutche grace as maie helpe to fulfil his Lawe Let the discrete reader iudge what blasphemie your woordes conteine Belye vs nomore hereafter This is our Doctrine better founded in the worde of God and in the Tradition of the Apostles and in the custome of the whole Churche then that ye shal euer be able to ouerthrowe it Blaspheme and barke againste it ye maie ouercome it ye cannot The B. of Sarisburie Al other thinges here by you touched M. Hardinge I wil passe ouer thinkinge it sufficient to note a fewe woordes of the possibilitie and perfourmance of the Lawe and so mutche the more for that ye seeme therein in somme parte to renewe the Pelagian Heretiques Olde condemned erroure As touchinge that ful and perfite Obedience that is required of vs by the Lawe ye answeare there are sundrie sortes of Perfection namely that there is Perfection in Children Perfection in Menne Perfection in Angels and Perfection in God And further ye saie that in this life wee cannot fulfil sutche Perfection as is required of the Angels of God in Heauen And this answeare ye make touchinge the Obedience and perfourminge of the Lawe As if ye would saie The Lawe of God was geeuen to Angels and is to be perfourmed not in the Earth but Onely in Heauen And as if God had said to those Blessed Sprites Thou shalt not Kil Thou shalt not commit aduouterie Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not couete c. In your sundrie Perfections of Children Menne Angels and God I haue no skil The Apologie meante onely of that Perfection that is required in Man How be it in euery kinde they saie Perfectum est cui nihil deest That thinge is Perfite that is ful and absolute and wanteth nothinge And here leste ye shoulde deceiue your selfe by wronge measure God him selfe hathe shewed you what Perfection he requireth Thus he saithe Thou shalt loue the Lorde thy God with al thy Harte with al thy Soule with al thy Power Ye shal not turne neither to the Right hand nor to the Lefte Accursed is he that standeth not in euery thinge that is written in the Lawe to perfourme the same And S. Iames saithe VVho so offendeth in one Commaundemente is guilty of al. And Christe saithe Be ye Perfite not measuring your selues by your owne habilitie but as your Father is Perfite whiche is in Heauen And yet hereby he meaneth not the Perfection that is in God and his Angels but onely that Perfection that is required in Man S. Hierome saithe The Pelagian Heretiques in Olde times vsed the same shiftes that you vse nowe For where as the Catholique Learned Fathers saide Noman is Perfite and voide of Sinne they answeared then euen in sutche sorte as you doo nowe Noman is Perfite in sutche degree of Perfection as God is Perfite S. Hieromes woordes be these Aiunt ad Comparationem Dei nullum esse Perfectum Quasi Scriptura hoc dixerit They saie euen as you M. Hardinge saie that in Comparison of God noman is Perfite Asthough this were the saieinge of the Scriptures And therefore he saithe vnto them Nunquid Praecepit mihi Deus vt essem quod Deus est Vt nihil inter me esset Dominum Creatorem Vt maior essem Angelorum fastigio Vt haberem quod Angeli non habent I beseeche you hathe God Commaunded me that I shoulde bee the same that God is That there shoulde be no difference in Perfection bitweene me and my Lorde the Creatoure That I shoulde be aboue the Highnesse of Angels Or that I shoulde haue that the Angels haue not It was in vaine therefore M. Hardinge thus to borrowe the Pelagians Weapons and to make mater of this Perfection For wee speake not of Angels but onely of Menne Further tointreate of the Perfite fulfillinge and accomplisshinge of the Lawe I meane so farre as the Lawe requirethe the Pelagian Heretiques herein also saide euen as you saie and none otherwise S. Augustine thereof reporteth thus Magnum aliquid Pelagiani se scire putam quando dicunt Non iuberet Deus quod Sciret ab homine non posse fieri Quis hoc nesciat Sed ide◠iubet aliqua quae non possumus vt nouerimus quid ab ipso
summa Euangelij nondum consentire mendacium est Whereas they crie out that wee cannot agree emonge our selues aboute the Substance of the Gospel it is a very greate Vntruthe But you saie The Maisters of the Apologie telle vs They doubte not but these parties wil be reconciled And yet Nicolaus Amsdorfius with whose woordes ye are ashamed to blotte your paper taketh the matter to be impossible And here ye thinke ye haue driuen vs neare the wal specially findinge vs so far disagreeinge in Iudgemente from a Doctoure as you cal him of our owne But â–ª M. Hardinge ye might better haue considered that Amsdorfius and wee speake of sundrie maters and therefore our saieinges maie wel stande togeather Amsdorfius saithe the Doctrine and Termes standinge stil as they doo it is not possible by any manner of Construction to make the parties agree But our truste in God is that they that are deceiued shal finde their owne erroure and alter their Termes and correcte their iudgementes and submit them selues vnto the Truthe and so ioine togeather al in one So S. Augustine saithe Recte dicitur Glacialem niuem calidam esse non posse Nullo enim pacto quà m diu nix est calida esse potest It is wel saide snowe frorne â—r congcled can neuer be hote For as longe as it is Snowe it is not possible to make it hote So likewise he saithe of the Heretiques named the Manichees Sic delirant Manichaei sed resipiscant non sint Manichaei Thus fonde are the Manichees But let them amende their errours and no more be Manichees What is there so contrarie in iudgemente as a Ievve and a Christian Yet God hath promised that he wil turne the hartes of the Fathers the Iewes vnto their Children and the hartes of the Children the Christians vnto their Fathers And S. Paule saithe Iudaei si non permanserint in incredulitate inserentur Potens enim est Deus iterum inserere eos The Iewes shal be graffed into the Tree if they abide not in Vnbeliefe For God is able to graffe them in againe What is there so contrarie as Light and Darkenesse Yet the Prophete saithe Illumina tenebras meas O Lorde sighten thou my darkenesse To conclude what is so contrarie as the Kingedome of the Pope and the Kingedome of Christe And yet wée truste it is not impossible but the Pope him selfe maie once turne to God confesse his errours and professe the Gospel of Christe that he nowe oppresseth These thinges considered M. Hardinge it was no deadly Sinne to saie wée truste that these maters of variance bitweene the Lutherans and the Zuinglians wil once be accorded and that al causes and séedes of dissension shal be thorowly pulled vp by the rootes and be buried and quite foregotten for euer This change God hath already begonne to woorke not onely in sundrie learned menne but also in greate Citties in good Vniuersities and in whole Countries Therefore wee truste our hope is not in Vaine As for the Lies whiche it liketh you wel to saie M. Ievvel made openly at Poules Crosse I doubte not of your modestie but ye woulde haue blased them better if ye had thought them woorthe your colours Sutche general and so greate exclamations vpon so simple reportes stande not alwaies with greatest wisedome He is to rasshe to be a Iudge that pronounceth before he knowe the cause What I saide there for as mutche as ye touche nothinge in particulare it is néedelesse to make rehearsal But wel I remember I might truely haue saide M. Hardinge commonly Misallegeth misreporteth misconstrueth corrupteth vvreasteth and Falsifieth the Anciente Councels and Holy Fathers I coulde haue saide M. Hardinge is oftentimes directely contrarie to him selfe I coulde haue saide M. Hardinge in one Booke hath vttered twoo hundred fiue and fiftie greate Vntruthes These M. Hardinge your Conscience knoweth had benne no Lies and therefore not méete to be chastifed by an Lawes The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 1. 2. But this is the heauiest and moste greeuous parte of their sclaunders that they cal vs wicked and vngodly men and saie wee haue throwne awaie al care of Religion Though this ought not to trouble vs mutche whiles they them selues that thus haue charged vs knowe ful wel howe spiteful and vntrue theire sclaunder is Iustine the Martyr is a witnesse that al Christians were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Godlesse as soone as the Gospel firste beganne to bee published and the name of Christe to be openly declared And when Polycarpus stoode to be iudged the people stirred vp the President to slea murder al them whiche professed the Gospel with these woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is to saie Ridde out of the waie these wicked and Godlesse creatures And this was not bicause it was true that the Christians were Godlesse in deede but bicause they woulde not worship stones and stockes whiche were then honoured as God The whole worlde seeth plainely yenough already what wee and oures haue endured at these mennes handes for Religion and our onely Goddes cause They haue throwne vs into Prison into Water into Fier and haue embrued them selues in our bloude not bicause wee were either adulterers or Robbers or Murtherers but onely for that we confessed the Gospel of Iesus Christe and put our confidence in the liuinge God And for that wee complained too iustly and truely Lorde thou knowest that they did breake the Lawe of God for theire owne most vaine Traditions And that our aduersaries were the very foes to the Gospel and enimies to Christes Crosse so witingly and willingly and obstinately despisinge Goddes Commaundementes Wherefore when these menne sawe they coulde not rightly finde faulte with our Doctrine they woulde needes pike a quarrel and inueigh and raile against our manners surmising that wee doo condemne al wel doinges that wee settte open the doore to al licentiousnesse and luste and leade awaie the people from al loue of vertue And in very deede the life of al men euen of the deuoutest and moste Christian bothe is and euermore hath been sutche as one maie alwaies finde somme lacke euen in the very beste and purest conuersation And sutche is the inclination of al creatures vnto euil and the readinesse of al menne to suspecte that the thinges whiche neither haue been donne nor once were meant to be donne yet maie be easily bothe hearde and credited to be true And like as a smal spotte is soone espied in the neatest and whitest garmente euen so the leaste staine of dishonestie is easily founde out in the purest and sincerest life Neither take we al them which haue at this daie embraced the Doctrine of the Gospel to be Angels and to liue clearely without any more or wrinkle nor yet thinke wee these menne neither so blinde that if any thinge maie be noted in vs they are not able to perceiue the same euen through the leaste creuie nor so frendly
if you meane absolutely as youre woordes seeme to sounde so no discrete Catholike man euer saide or thought The B. of Sarisburie Here by a prety distinction of Povver Absolute and Povver not Absolute Christe and his Vicare are set togeather to parte tenures Howe be it what manner of Povver it is that the Pope claimeth his owne Proctours and Counsellers can tel vs beste Cardinal Hostiensis saithe Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest Sinne onely excepted the Pope hath Power to doo what so euer God him selfe can doo Stephanus the Bishop of Patraca in youre late Councel at Laterane in Rome saithe thus In Papa est omnis Potestas supra omnes Potestates tam Coeli quà m Terrae Al Power is in the Pope aboue al the Powers as wel of Heauen as of Earthe And to make the mater plaine youre owne Bernarde him selfe saithe Tibi data est omnis Potestas in qua qui totum dicit nihil excludit Al manner of Power is geeuen to thee He that saithe Al excepteth nothing And Abbate Panormitane saithe Plenitudo Potestatis superat omnem Legem positiuam Et sufficit quòd in Papa sit pro Ratione Voluntas The fulnesse of Power passeth al Positiue Lawe and it is sufficieÌ„t in the Pope that Wil stande instede of Reason This is that Power that M. Hardinge here hathe so closely conueied in vnder the Cloude of his Distinction But Baldus that by experience sawe the practise hereof saithe thus Haec Plenitudo Potestatis est Plenitudo Tempestatis This Fulnesse of Power is a Fulnesse of Tempeste An other of youre Doctoures saithe Bernardus nullam Potestatem ponit in Papa quam non ponit in Praelatis inferioribus licet in Papa ponat Summam Bernarde alloweth no Povver vnto the Pope but he alloweth the same to other inferioure Bishoppes Notwithstandinge he alloweth the greatest Povver vnto the Pope S. Bernarde him selfe saithe to like pourpose Sic factuando probatis vos habere plenitudinem Potestatis Sed Iustitiae fortè non ita Thus dooinge and dealinge yee shewe youre selfe to haue the Fulnesse of Power but perhaps not likewise the Fulnesse of Iustice The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 7. Whiche of the Ancient Fathers euer saide that neither Kinge nor Prince nor the whole Cleregie nor al the people togeather are hable to be Iudges ouer you M. Hardinge VVhat Shepe shal be iudges ouer their shepherde For as the Fathers of the moste ancient Councel of Sinuessa saide in the cause of Marcellinus the Pope Nemo vnquam iudicauit Pontificem No man euer iudged the Pope nor any Prelate his highe Prieste Quoniam prima sedes non iudicabitur à quoquam * because the first See shal not be iudged of any body The B. of Sarisburie In these twoo pointes standeth the Popes Garde of truste and the keepe and Castel of al his Power Firste the Churche of Rome what so euer waie she take can neuer erre Nexte the Pope what so euer he doo maie neuer be called to any reckening One of your Doctours saithe thus Omne factum Sanctissimi Patris interpretari debemus in bonum Et fiquidem fuerit furtum vel aliud ex se malum interpretari debemus quòd Diuino instinctu fiat Wee muste expounde euery acte of the Holy Father for the beste And if it be thefte or any other thinge that of it selfe is euil as Aduoutrie or Fornication we muste thinke it is donne by the secrete inspiration of God An other saithe Si Papa innumerabiles populos cateruatim secum ducat mancipio Gehennae cum ipso plagis mulus in aeternum vapulaturos huius culpas arguere praesumat mortalium nullus If the Pope drawe infinite Companies of people by heapes togeather with him self into Hel to be pounished with him with many stripes for euer yet let no Mortal man presume to reproue his faultes An other saith Papa solutus est omni Lege Humana The Pope is exempted from al Lawe of Man An other saithe Sacrilegij instar esset disputare de facto Papae Facta Papae excusantur vt homicidia Samsonis vt furta Haebraeorum vt adulterium Iacob It is a sinne as greate as Sacrilege or Churche robbinge to reason of any of the Popes dooinges For his Actes are excused as Samsons Murders as the Ievves Robberies and as the Aduouteries of Iacob An other saithe Nec Totus Clerus nec totus Mundus potest Papam iudicare aut deponere Neither al the Cleregie nor al the whole Worlde maie either Iudge or Depose the Pope And againe Papa in nullo casu quamdiu est Papa propter quodcunque crimen potest deponi nec à Concilio nec à rota Ecclesia nec à toto Mundo The Pope while he is Pope cannot in any case for any offense by him committed be deposed neither by the General Councel nor by al the Churche nor by the whole worlde And al this they are wel hable to proue by good substantial Authoritie of the Scriptures For thus they reason The Scholare is not aboue his Maister The Seruant is not aboue his Lorde And againe The Axe boasteth not it selfe against the CarpeÌ„ter that hevveth vvith it Ergo no man maie accuse the Pope Therefore an other of youre Doctours saithe Iudicare de factis Papae hoc aliqui dicunt esse Tangere Montem ponere os in CoeluÌ„ To Iudge of the Popes deedes this somme menne saie is to touche the Holy Mounte wherein God gaue the Lawe shewed him selfe to Moses and to set the face against the Heauens And the Pope him selfe saithe It is the Sinne againste the Holy Ghost whiche shal neuer be forgeuen neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to comme Thus maie the Pope depose Kinges and Princes and trouble the whole state of the worlde and doo what he liste without Controlmente Yet maie no man dare saie vnto him Sir vvhy doo ye so Therefore the Accusers of Pope Symmachus saide in the presence of King Theodoricus Papa iactat se vnà cum docendi Potestate accepisse licentiam peccandi The Pope maketh his boaste that togeather with the Power of teachinge he hathe receiued free libertie to doo il Pope Marcellinus whose name ye haue alleged out of the Councel of Sinuessa for defence hereof was an Apostata had foresaken Christe and being Pope in Rome had made Sacrifice vnto Diuels Al this notwithstandinge ye saie no mortal man might accuse him Thus hath the Pope a Special Prerogatiue and Premunire to forsake Christe and to committe open Idolatrie and to geeue Honour and Sacrifice vnto Diuels without Controlmente Yet S. Paule accused S. Peter euen vnto his face in the presence of many And S. Cyprian saithe Petrus se non Vindicauit seu aliquid insolenter assumpsit vt diceret se Primatum tenere obtemperari sibi Ã
S. Hierome was shamefully deceiued and wrote of ignorance he knewe not what Likewise yée saie That weé reporte of Pope Iohn is moste false Our reporte is That Pope Iohn denied the Immortalitie of the Soule not thorowly and altogeather but onely in that he saide Vntil the time of the Laste Iudgement the Soule lieth stil as in a traunse as doothe the body vvithout sense of ioie or paine Wherein he not onely withstoode the expresse Woorde of God but also vnwares quite ouerthrewe his owne whole Kingedome of Purgatorie which is the greatest fairest of al his three Crownes For what auaile his Pardōnes Trētalles if the soule lie stil a sléepe vntil the daie of Iudgemēt feele no paine Verily after the laste Iudgement by common consente there shal be no Purgatorie Nowe if there be no place of Purgatorie neither before nor after the laste Iudgement then maie wée wel conclude that absolutely without doubte there is no Purgatorie The firste Authours of this erroure as S. Augustine saithe were the Heretiques called Arabici Touchinge Pope Iohns erroure Gerson saithe thus Iohannes Papa 22. decreuit c. Pope Iohn 22. decreed that the Soules of the wicked should not be pounished before the daie of the laste Iudgemente whiche erroure the Vniuersitie of Parise condemned for Heresie and caused the Pope to recante One of your owne Cōpanions of Louaine saith Pope Iohn keapte this erroure secretely to him selfe and neuer had the open consent of the Churche of Rome And for better excuse hereof he saithe Petrus non Fidem Christi sed Christum salua Fide negauit Peter denied not the Faith of Christe but his Faith saued he denied nomore but Christe And so by this prety shifte of your Louanian Diuinitie yée haue bothe Christe without Faithe also Faithe without Christe Thus M. Hardinge it is plaine by your owne Doctoures Felowes y◠our reporte of Pope Iohn is neither a false sclaunder as you saie nor proceedeth of detestable and vvicked malice For the reste yée saie vvee belie Pope Zosimus He corrupted not the Councel of Nice For trial whereof I referre mee selfe to my Former Replie vnto your Answeare Certainely what so euer learned man wil stande in denial hereof he must néedes want coloure in his face The fraude was notoriously found detected to y◠who le world by y◠Ancient Learned Fathers Cyrillus Articus y◠one being Patriarke of Alexandria the other of Antioche and was reproued and published by twoo hundred and seuenteene Bishoppes openly in the Councel of Aphrica The peeuishe forged Epistle that yée allege vnder the name of the Learned Godly Father Athanasius The fantastical burninge of the Canons of Nice without fire with other your like childishe vanities scarcely méete for children to plaie withal are likewise answeared One of your owne Louanian companie confesseth that in the late Councel of Florence the Greekes there made open complainte that the Bishop of Rome had corrupted the Canons of the Councel of Nice Alypius y◠Bishop of Tagastā speakinge hereof in the Councel of Carthage saith thus Adhuc tamen me mouet quoniam cùm inspiceremus Graeca Exemplaria huius Synodi Nicenae ista ibi nescio qua ratione minimè inuenimus Yet this thing moueth mee that when wee examined and conferred the Originalles of the Nicene Councel vvritten in Greeke I knowe not by what meanes thiese thinges wee founde not there Yet Pope Bonifacius to saue the Credite of the See of Rome was forced to saie and publishe openly that the saide Alypius and Aurelius the Bishop of Carthage S. Augustine the Bishop of Hippo and two hundred and fourteene other Bishoppes that had espied and reueled this falsehedde were al enflamed leadde by the Diuel And one of your owne suddaine Doctoures of Louaine saithe Haec omnia tanquam somnia tāquam fabulae tanquam superflua abolita antiquata calcata sunt Al these Decrees of these Councelles of Carthage and Aphrica are abolished and repealed and trodden vnder foote as Dreames and Fables and thinges superfluous This M. Hardinge is the weighinge of your Councelles If they like you they are the expresse Voices of the Holy Ghoste If they like you not they are Dreames and Fables and thinges Superfluous Camotensis yée saie is somme woorshipful Doctour sutch as by our owne iudgement might passe in the Blacke garde Yet was he a Bishop M. Harding in al respectes far better thē either your Leontius or your Hippolytus or your newe founde Clemens whom yée cal the Apostles Felovve or your vaine fable of Amphilochius Yée woulde séeme to finde faulte with the name thinke wée should not haue written Camotensis but rather Iuo Carnotensis Your gheasse yée shewe vs but reason thereof yee shewe vs none Yee might as wel haue saide Fulbertus Carnotensis who beinge very mutche consumed and spente with sicknesse as it is learnedly noted emonge other your Verities for a restoratiue suckte our Ladies breaste and by vertue thereof was made whole Yée might likewise haue gheased it had benne Io. Sarisburiensis otherwise called by somme Rupertus Carnotensis For he saithe In Ecclesia Romana sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Churche of Rome sitte the Scribes and the Phariseis But in déede this Writers name is Iohannes Camotensis alleged by Cornelius Agrippa His woordes be these Angelis praecipiunt potestatem habent in Mortuos Vim faciunt Scripturis vt habeant Plenitudinem Potestatis Ipse Papa iam factus est intolerabilis Eius pompam fastum nullus Tyrannorum vnquam ae quauit Legati Romanorum Pontificum sic bacchantur in Prouincijs acsi ad flagellandam Ecclesiam sathan egressus sit à facie Domini Thei saie theire Commaundementes vpon the Angels of God They haue power vpon the Deade Thei wreast and racke the Scriptures that they maie haue the Fulnesse of Power The Pope him selfe is nowe becomme vntolerable No Tyran was euer hable to matche him in Pompe and Pride The Popes Legates keepe sutche reuel in Kindomes and Countries as if Sathan were sente abroade from the face of the Lorde to scourge the Churche This is not your Iuo Carnotensis It is Iohannes Camotensis And this is his iudgemente of your Churche of Rome The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 1. What wil ye saie if the Popes Aduocates Abbates and Bishoppes dissemble not the mater but shewe them selues open enimies to the Gospel and though thei see yet wil not see but wrie the Scriptures and witingly and knowingly corrupte and countrefeite the VVoorde of God and fouly and wickedly applie to the Pope al the same thinges whiche euidently and properly be spoken of the Personne of christe onely nor by no meanes can be applied to any other And what though they saie The Pope is al and aboue al Or That the Pope can doo asmutche as christe can doo and That one iudgement place and one coūcel House
harde mater for your Pope out of his owne garde to make sutche Patriarkes yenough one for Hierusalem an other for Constantinople an other for Alexandria an other for Antioche an other for Sidon an other for Tyrus and I marueile if there be not somme Patriarke one or other for Sodome and Gomorre These poore Holy and Hongry Fathers are contented at al times to yelde theire submissions and to sette theire handes to what so euer they shal be required and in the names of those Countries that they scareely ouer hearde of to confesse the Pope their maister to be al more then al. With sutche daine shewes and visaâ—des it pleaseth you to smoothe the worlde It yee doubte hereof yée maie easily finde that one Augustinus de Roma in your late Councel of BauÌ„le hare the name of the Archebishop of Nazareth in lurie Likewise that one Petrus Paludensis a poore Fréere Obsernante not long sithence bare the name of the Patriarke of Hierusalem But what néede moe Examples Your own Ceremoniarie of Rome telleth you thus Consucueruni Autiqui ponere Patriarchas quatuor Ecclesiarum Principalium inter Episcopos Cardinales mixtim Nostro tempore ponuntur immediatè post Cardinales Sunt enim quodammodo ' Titulares They were woonte in olde times to place the Patriarkes of the foure Principal Churches togeather with the Cardinal Bishoppes one with an other But nowe adaies they are placed nexte beneathe al the Cardinalles For in a manner they haue nowe nothinge els but the names of Patriarkes It is moste certaine that the Christian Patriarkes and Bishoppes of those Countries wil neither Communicate with the Pope either in Sacramentes or in Praiers nor any wise yéeld to his Authoritie nor geue any manner of honoure or reuerence to his personne nomore then to Machomete or Antichrist as I haue sufficiently shewed before Touchinge the Number of Bishoppes presente at your Former Assemblie at Tridente I referre mee selfe to the Recordes of the same If yée finde there more then Fourtie Bishoppes I am coÌ„tent to lose my credite And yet of the same number Blinde sir Roberte of Scotland as I haue said before M. Pates of England were seely poore Bishoppes God knoweth endewed onely with bare names without Bishoprikes In your later Assemblie twoo of your Holy Fathers were staine there presently in Aduouterie By meane of whiche misfortune your number by so mutche was abated These be the greate woorthies of the worlde These Cornelius Bitontinus one of the same Companie calleth the Starres of the Churches and the Mighty Armie of Goddes Angelles These haue power to determine maters that thei neuer vnderstoode by Authoritie onely but not by knowledge Alphonsus de Castro as I haue shewed you before saithe thus It is certaine that somme Popes be so voide of Learninge that they vnderstande not the Grammare Rules Erasmus speakinge of sundrie the greate Learned of your side saithe thus Sibi videntur Semidei miro supercilio prae se despicientes Grammaticos Qui si Grammaticae litassent non ad hunc modum se pueris deridendos propinarent They thinke them selues halfe Goddes and with high lookes thei despise poore Grammariens But if they had wel Learned their Grammare thei woulde not offer sutche occasions that children and babes should scorne at theire folie Concerninge the whole mater your Doctours of Sorbona in Parise haue concluded thus Vt Concilium legitimè congregetur sufficit quo'd solennitas forma luris solenniter sit seruata Quia si quis trahere velit hoc in disputationem vtrùm Praelati qui ibi sedent habeant Rectam Intentionem vtrùm sint Docti vtrùm habeant Scientiam Sacrarum Literarum animum obediendi Sanae Doctrinae esset processus in infinitum That the Councel be lawfully assembled it is sufficient that yâ— Solemnitie and fourme of Lawe be solemnely obserued For if a man would caste doubtes whether the Bishoppes that sitte in Councel haue a good Meaninge and whether they be Learned and whether they be skilful in the Scriptures and whether they haue a minde to obeie sounde Doctrine or no then wee should neuer make an ende These be they M. Hardinge to whom yée woulde haue vs to géeue care what so euer thei saie euen as to the Secretaries of the Holy Ghoste But S. Augustine saithe Ecclesiae inter nos agitur causa non mea Ecclesia in nullo homine spem ponere à suo didicit Redemptore It is the Churches cause that wee talke of it is not mine The Churche hath learned of her Redeemer to put no truste in any man The Apologie Cap. 18. Diuision 1. How so euer it bee the truthe of the Gospel of Iesus Christe dependeth not vpon Councelles nor as S. Paule saithe vpon the Iudgementes of Mortal Creatures And if they whiche ought to be careful for Goddes Churche wil not be wife but slacke their duetie and harden their hartes againste God and his Christe goeinge on stil to peruerte the right waies of the Lorde God wil stirre vp the very stones make children and babes cunninge that there maie euer be somme to confute these mennes lies The B. of Sarisburie Hereto M. Hardinge answeareth nothinge els but thus The Councel is the Schoole of Truthe The Bishoppes cannot foreslowe their dueties The Churche of Rome cannot erre Whiche tales wee haue so often and not without wearinesse hearde already Petrus de Palude emongest other your Doctours saithe Non est credendum Ecclesiam Romanam errasse à Fide Ipsa enim potest è contrario cum Christo dicere Ego Testimonium perhibeo de meipsa Testimonium meum verum est No man maie beleue that the Churche of Rome maie erre from the Faithe Contrarywise that Churche maie saie with Christe I beare vvitnesse of mee selfe And my vvitnesse is iuste and true Therefore so longe as the Churche of Rome can speake for her selfe there is no doubte but al is wel The Apologie Cap. 18. Diuision 2. For God is able not onely without Councelles but also wil the Councelles nil the Councelles to maintaine and anaunce his owne Kingedome Ful many be the thoughtes of mans harr saith Salomon but the Counsel of the Lorde abideth stedfast There is no vvisedome there is no knovvledge there is no counsel against the Lorde Thinges endure not saithe Hilarius that be set vp vvith mannes vvorkemanship By an other manner of meanes muste the Churche of God be buiided and preserued For that Churche is grounded vpon the Fundation of the Apostles and Prophetes and is holden faste togeather by one corner stone vvhiche is Christe Iesus M. Hardinge VVhere ye saie that by an other manner of meanes the Churche of God must be builded and preserued shewe vs what other meanes they are and we must saie ye are very cunninge men who correct I will not saie Magnificat but Christes owne ordinaunce for gouernemente of his Churche who hath ordeined Apostles
nor of your Cleregie of Rome For trial whereof let S. Hierome him selfe be hearde to speake as a witnesse indiffereÌ„t of him selfe First in other places he saith thus To this place we shal resorte afterward Dicimus NoÌ„ venient super nos mala Audiamus sententiam Domini Sion HierusaleÌ„ Mons TeÌ„pli speculatotium visio pacis Templus Christi in consummatione in fine We saie There shal no hurte comme vpon vs. Let vs heare the saieinge of our Lorde Sion and Hierusalem and the Mounte that is the Watche Tower of the Temple and the sighte of peace and the Temple or Churche of Christe shal be consumed and brought to an ende These woordes be plaine not onely that haute Lady Niniue but also the Churche or Temple that beareth the Name of Christe shal be consumed and broughte to an ende Likewise he saithe Quos Deus inseruit ex Oleastro in radicem Bonae Oliuae si illi immemores recesserint à Conditore suo Adorauerint Assyrium cur illos Deus non euertat ad eandem sitim reducat in qua priùs fuerunt Euen they whome God hath graffed froÌ„ out of the Wilde Oliue tree into the roote of the Good oliuie that is to saie the children of the Churche if they forgeate them selues and flee from theire Maker and woorship the Kinge of Assyria that is to saie Antichriste or any other Creature that is not God why maie not God ouerthrowe them and bringe them to the same thirste and drouth they were in before Againe he saithe Abominatio Desolationis intelligi potest omne dogma peruersum quod cum viderimus stare in Loco Sancto id est in Ecclesia debemus fugere de Iudaea ad Montes The Abomination of Desolation maie be taken for any VVicked Doctrine whiche when wee shal see standinge in the Holy Place that is to saie in the Churche of Christe then wee muste flee from Iurie to the Mountaines of the Scriptures And againe likewise he saithe Paxillus auferetur de Loco Fideli hoc est de Ecclesia per impietatem quotidiè succrescentem qui super eum antè pependerant Fide posteà infidelitate frangentur cadent peribunt The Pinne or barre whereby he meaneth Christe for that the Faitheful hange vpon him as in a house thinges are hanged vp safely vpon a Pinne shal be taken awaie from the place that was Faitheful that is to saie from the Churche bicause of the wickednesse that daiely groweth And they that before honge vpon him by Faithe afterwarde by infidelitie shal be broken downe and falle and perishe What so euer Glose yée shal geue to the other woordes of S. Hierome certainely these woordes are plaine and euidente wil not easily receiue your Glose Likewise S. Gregorie speakinge not of the Firste comminge of Christe but of the time that is discribed to be before the ende of the worlde saithe thus In diebus illis Ecclesia quasi quodam senio debilitata per Praedicationem parere Filioâ— non valebit In those daies the Churche as beinge ouermutche weakened with age shal not be hable by Preachinge to beare Children Now touchinge your Cleregie S. Hierome him selfe saithe Ipsi quoque Sacerdotes qui Legem Domini docere deberent subiectos sibi populos à Leonis furore defendere quodam stupore infatuati vertentur in amentiam The Priestes them selues that ought to teache the Lavve of our Lorde and to defende the people committed to their charge from the furie of the Lion that is the Diuel beinge amazed and berefte of their wittes shal be turned into madnesse Againe he saithe Scit Rex Assyrius non posse se Oues decipere nisi Pastores ante consopierit Semper Diaboli studium est vigilantes animas consopire The Kinge of Assyria that is the Diuel knoweth that he can neuer deceiue the Sheepe onlesse firste he caste the Sheepeheardes into a trauÌ„ce It is euermore the Diuels policie to laie watcheful Soules asleepe And therefore againe he saithe Auferet Dominus nomina Vanae Gloriae Admirationis falsae quae versantur in Ecclesia Sed nomina Sacerdotum cum Sacerdotibus qui frustrà sibi applaudunt in Episcopali nomine in Presbyterij Dignitate non in opere God wil take awaie the names of Vaine Glorie and False Credite that are in the Churche and the Names of Priestes togeather with the Priestes them selues that vainely boaste them selues of the Name of Bishoppes and of the Dignitie of Priestehoode but doo nothinge But aboute Babylon yée saie yee neuer make an ende of Bablinge What Bablinge then I praie you made S. Hierome when he saide Petrus in Prima Epistola sub Nomine Babylonis Romam significat S. Peter in his Firste Epistle meante Rome vnder the name of Babylon S. Augustine saithe Roma est quasi Secunda Babylon Rome is as the Seconde Babylon Againe he saithe Ciues Babyloniae nos fecerunt dimisimus Creatorem Adorauimus Creaturam dimisimus eum à quo facti sumus Adorauimus illud quod fecimus They haue made vs the Citizens of Babylon for wee haue leafte oure Creatoure and haue woorshipped a Creature wee haue leafte him that made vs and haue Adoured that thinge that wee made oure selues Likewise saithe Primasius Tunc Babylon cadet quando nouissimè potestatem persequendi Sanctos acceperit Then shal Babylon comme to grounde when she shal laste of al take power to persequute the Sainctes of God And againe Vidi Mulierem sedentem super Vestem Coccineam plenam Nominibus Blasphemiae habentem Capita Septem Septem Capita dicit Septem Montes Romam quae super Septem Montes praesidet significans I sawe a VVooman sittinge vpon a scarlet roabe fulle of Names of Blasphemie hauinge Seuen Heades Seuen Heades he calleth the Seuen Mountes vpon vvhiche Rome vvas builte meaninge thereby Rome that sitteth vpon Seuen Hilles Ludouicus Viâ—es your owne very frende saith thus Hieronymus ad Marcellam scribens non aliam existimat discribi c. S. Hierome writinge vnto Marcella thinketh there is none other Babylon discribed by S. Iohn in his Reuelations but the Cittie of Rome Ambrosius Ansbertus saithe Vbi est illa dudum super omnia Regna exaltata Inclyta Roma Babylon Secunda VVhere is that Noble Rome euanced of late aboue al Kingedomes the Seconde Babylon I passe ouer Beatus Rhenanus Auentinus Petrarcha Dante 's and a greate number of other youre owne Doctours mentioned before in place more conueniente Al whome ye maie not of youre courtesie charge with bablinge Yee saie S. Hierome meante not the state of our time but onely the state of the time nowe paste that is to saie as it is saide before The time of Christes firste Comminge into the VVorlde And this in your margine yee cal the right sense of S. Hierome truely reported Howe be it youre Reader that hath eyes