Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	able_a	church_n	zion_n	69	3	9.0116	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03398	A suruay of the pretended holy discipline. Contayning the beginninges, successe, parts, proceedings, authority, and doctrine of it: with some of the manifold, and materiall repugnances, varieties and vncertaineties, in that behalfe	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1593 (1593)	STC 1352; ESTC S100667	297,820	466

the brethren must content themselues with very meane fellowes Husbandmen Taylors Butchers Carpenters Shomakers Thatchers Dawbers and such like Indeed at Geneua they flaunt it out For there hauing twelue in number they must all be men of state vz. Two of the Lordes of the little Councell foure of the Councell of three score and six of the Councell of two hundred Which policie pleaseth the Ministers there so greatly that to their commendation be it spoken they wish the like order to bee obserued in all places as neerely as may bee M. Beza speaking hereof saith That there must bee consideration had that Princes and Noblemen and such as haue authoritie be chosen to be of the Segniorie Who being so chosen saith Cartwright and his demonstrator if they should disdaine to ioyne in consultation with poore men they should disdaine not men but Christ himselfe According to some proportion of which precept as Iiudge the saide Cartwright in another place affirmeth that is the practise of the Churches reformed after his fashion to choose such Elders as are able to liue without charging the Church any whit So that as neere as they can they will haue the chiefest and the richest to be their Elders that so the honourable estate of the Ministers might shewe it selfe with greater glory For as it is set downe in the seuenth Geneuian article In case one of the two Lordes of the Councell chosen should then also bee a Syndicke yet he must not bee in the consistorie but as a common Elder to gouerne the Church with the rest of the companie Yea and which is more Euerie such officer is to be continually resident vpon his charge and that in his owne person What not a substitute to bee admitted for a Nobleman It is well Then Kings Princes Magistrates Lords Gentlemen looke well to your charges Marke if it please you how you are raunged and giue place to your betters For saith Danaeus Your degree or kind Longè est dissimile ac inferius ordine pastorum Is farre vnlike and inferiour to the order of pastors You are but made their assistants as the 70. were to Moses Ergo quae inter eiusdem Collegij Curiae assessores siue consiliarios ipsum praesidem differentia est eadem est inter presbyteros pastores eiusdem And therefore knowe this that there is as much difference betwixt you the pastors of your consistories wherin you serue as is betwixt a king and his councellors Fie vppon superioritie may these Ministers say fie vpon it Indeede we saith one of them in effect do rest not in names carrying shew of worldly rule and lordly commaundement c. but of seruice guiding leading ouerseeing directing such like Which maketh me to remember the Frier in Chaucer that desired of the Capon but the liuer of a white loafe but a shiuer and after that a rosted pigs head but for him he would not any beast were dead They wil seeke to be no higher than be aboue princes They wil take nothing vpon them men of great humilitie but euen to be guiders leaders ouerseers and directers And as for names of any great shew or honor they care not for them so they may haue but onely the estimation which is due to men that haue such vaine titles Euen Chaucers Frier vp and downe But what names will please them you shall finde that after a sort in the next chapter CHAP. XI Their disagreement about the name of their ruling associates YOu must not thinke but that in agreeing by what name their pretended gouernors must properly bee called they will be very curious For in christening but of priuate persons their new discipline prouideth that no names be giuen Quae paganismum vel papatum resipiunt which smell either of paganisme or popery but such especially as are in the scriptures And therefore for Robert Alice and such like c. some of them as one noteth haue deuised these names for their children The Lord is neere More triall Reformation Discipline Ioy againe Sufficient From aboue Free gift More fruit Dust names in our English phrases not very vsual or oft found in the scriptures As if for example where we read Adam knew Eue or Kain killed Abell we should say after their fashion Red knew liuing and Possession slew vanitie If they should translate the scriptures they would doe it as it seemeth very properly But now if in a matter of so little weight in respect of that I haue in hande they haue thus bestirred themselues and that with so great discretion you must thinke that for their Aldermen the sinewes of their owne strength they haue left no one corner in their heads vnsearched to set them out to the world in their best colours indeed euery man almost as his fancie hath lead him By that which hath bin said alredy in the sixt chapter it followeth consequently that if vppon their agreement together which I neuer looke for it happen that their pretēded regiment shalbe called Synedriū then their new Aldermen whether they be Princes Magistrates Lords Gentlemen or where they want Coblers Tinkers Brokers or Tapsters they must bee called as I suppose Synedrians if Councell then Councellors if Consistorie then Consistorians if Eldership then Elders if Assembly then Assemblistes if Deaconship then Deacons if Church then Churchians if Senate then Senators and if Synagogue then Archisynagogians To these also may be added some other so as you wil content your selues to see some little more crossing Presbyterorum proprio Christianis vocabulo comprehendi pastores doctores nemo nescit No man is ignoraunt saith Serranus that amongst Christians this word Priest doth properly signifie a pastor and doctor that is Ministers of the worde Nay sayth Cartwright in effect that is a lie by your leaue The name of Elder most properly agreeth to those which haue the gouernmēt only And Trauerse his scholler wil not shrinke frō him an inche Those Elders saith he which onely rule proprio nomine presbyteri appellantur if you will speake properly are to bee called Priests or Elders I thinke he meaneth amongst Christians It seemeth also that they bee called not simply Elders but Elders of the people For Beza is resolute that adiecto epitheto the rulers in the Synedrion or Consistorie had this addition to their names to be tearmed seniores populi Elders of the people with whom notwithstanding his credit an other incountreth a Bussard in respect but yet a fellow as confident as Beza saying Seniores populi non erant ex eclesiastico Synedrio sed ex ciuili The Elders of the people were not of the ecclesiasticall Senate but of the ciuill By whose iudgement then our Elders may not haue that epithete which Beza affirmeth was due vnto them Besides if we shall beleeue Beza Cartwright c. these Elders are cōmended vnto vs in the scriptures vnder the name

of our seruice of God and all our lawes orders ceremonies and priuileges thervnto appertaining to haue had the Geneua discipline established in place thereof may greatly reioice at their good discretion considering that if then they had preuailed we had admitted of that forme of church-gouernment which the very cheefe supplicators instigators of them at that time do now themselues condemne as you haue heard into the pit of hell and so they might haue bene as readie to haue set forward this second deuise as they were for the former But men I hope will be more carefull hereafter then to be carried away with euery noueltie if it haue but any shew of reasonable probabilitie And maister Cartwright with the rest of his chiefe adherents might certainly do God and the church great seruice if without any longer standing vpon the maintainance of their own credits they would be content to confesse their former ouersights in laying downe those false principles wherevpon the new hereticks do build and acknowledge the truth vz. that the present gouernment of the church of England as both holy and Apostolicall and that the reformation of religion already made by her maiesties most princely care and heauenly direction is such a reformation abuses there may be and it were heresie to dreame of any puritie as euery good Christian ought to praise God for it from the bottome of his heart and not onely to allow of it but to maintayne and defend it both with his goods and life Maister Cartvvright began well in his epistle against Harrison but he should do better if hee would so continue and proceede forward One extremitie is best discerned by the other Barrovves folly may teach him wisedome The consequence doth often shew the grossenesse of the Antecedent And many learned men haue bene brought by the importunitie of such kind of aduersaries to see their own mistakings and so to grow vnto a farre better moderation As euen in the chapter following and in this very cause of discipline it will appeare I trust vnto you CAP. XXXIIII Of their disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernment IT were very hard if the fauourers of the Geneua platforme should vrge the same vvith any pretence of necessitie They talke of pastors doctors elders deacons widdowes and of many things els but as yet besides their obstinacie to continue in the course which they haue begun for the maintenance of their credits they are not throughly agreed almost in any thing To tell vs therfore of a matter that should be necessarie and withall to confesse in effect that they know not what it is should argue in my opinion some very great rashnesse and follie When maister Caluin dealt with maister Bullinger and others for their good fauour and friendship towards the continuance of his new deuised platforme in Geneua as you haue heard at large in the second chapter there was not a word you may sweare it of any necessitie that all oother churches should be enforced to submit thēselues to that deuise M. Caluin himselfe at that time as I am persuaded did not so much as dreame of any such matter A very graue and learned man of the French nation hath faythfully reported that when the forme of the Geneua discipline was first admitted of by the ministers of France in one of their cheefest synods which hath bene kept there of late yeares about the Church affaires it was not then receaued by them in that assemblie as a necessary order prescribed by Christ that ought alwaies to be continued but as a forme of discipline conuenient and fit for the afflicted estate of their churches in those times which might afterwards bee altered and changed as occasions should require And because you might not doubt of the certayntie of this report You shall vnderstand that the author of it was himselfe present in the sayd assemblie and not a man of the meanest account amongst them With whom also another great person of that countrie a man of state and great learning agreed when hee affirmed to one of very good place in England as the same partie hath told me that the forme of discipline which is now receaued by the French ministers was neuer meant by them to be otherwise admitted of then for an interim till things might be better considered of and ordered These testimonies I vrge no further then as reports neyther would I haue you to giue any further credit vnto them then as you shall thinke meet vpon this my bare relation Howbeit whether the persons specified did make any such report or not it seemeth to mee that the thing it selfe is true which they are sayd to haue reported For thus I find it set downe in the end of the forme of Ecclesiasticall discipline agreed vpon by the resolution not of one but of fiue generall Synods of the reformed Churches of the realme of Fraunce These articles say they vvhich are here contayned touching discipline are not so decreed vpon amongst vs but if the profite of the church shall require they may bee chaunged But it shall not bee in the povver of one priuate man to do it vvithout the aduise and consent of a generall councell In all maister Caluins time for ought I find the necessitie which now is pretended for the consistoriall discipline was no where insisted vpon A church in those daies might haue had all the true notes of the church of Christ although it had wanted that platforme of Geneua Maister Caluin in his Institutions could find but tvvo necessary Simbola ecclesiae dignoscendae verbi predicationem sacramentorum obseruationem signes of discerning the church the preaching of the vvord and the obseruation of the sacraments Bertrand de Loque in like sort he was able to bring forth no other substantiall notes of the Church but those tvvo No more was Philip of Mornay the lord of Plessis He maketh mention indeed of a third marke vz. the lawfull vocation of pastors but hee sayth that it is not a marke of substance In the great assemblie at Poictiers in France 1561 vvhere Peter Martir A Marlorat N. Galatius and diuers other ministers of the reformed churches were present maister Beza being there also and hauing his turne to speake before the king of Fraunce the queene of Nauarre the cardinall of Lorraine and sundrie other bishops hee durst not insist vpon any other firme and certaine notes of the visible Church of Christ but the two notes mentioned purum dei verbum sincera sacramentorum administratio the pure vvord of God and the sincere administration of the sacraments There are sayth hee some that do adde ecclesiasticall discipline and the fruits of preaching sed c. duabus illis erimus contenti but c. vve vvill bee content vvith these tvvo first Agreeably to this doctrine that there are but two necessarie and substantiall marks of the church the cheefest learned men in Christendome both

and ordination of Ministers and of theyr disagreement about the same Cap. 16. fol. 183. Of theyr Aldermens ioynt-office with the ministers in binding loosing of sins of their disagreemēt therin C. 17. f. 190 Of the first institution of the old Deacons and of the disagreemēt about the new disciplinary Deacons Cap. 18. fol. 198 Of certayne Widdows which are made Church-officers of the disagreement which is about them Cap. 19. fol. 215. Of the charge to bee imposed vppon euery parish by meanes of the pretended Eldership Cap. 20. fol. 227. Of theyr desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might bee restored againe to the mayntenance of theyr Elderships Cap. 21. fol. 233 They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to theyr pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall Cap. 22. fol. 250. In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists Cap. 23. fol. 258. Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of princes in church-causes in the aduancing of their own C. 24. f. 268 In what causes more particularly theyr Elderships are to deale as they pretend Cap. 25. fol. 281. Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues Cap. 26. fol. 298 How they deale with the auncient Fathers Ecclesiasticall Histories and generall Councels when they are alledged against them Cap. 27. fol. 329. Theyr dealing with all the new writers and manye reformed churches when they make against them Cap. 28. fol. 354. Howe they depend vppon theyr owne Synodes and fauourers Cap. 29. fol. 364. How falsely they alledge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish-Bishops and Elders Cap. 30. fol. 381. How and with what disagreement they wrest and misconstrue the Scriptures in the behalfe of theyr discipline C. 31. f. 396. What account the solliciters for this pretended gouernement doe make each of other Cap. 32. fol. 416. Of the prayse disprayse of this pretended regiment C. 33. f. 421 Of theyr disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernement Cap. 34. fol. 436. Of the pretended commoditie that the Elderships would bringe with them and of the small fruites that they bringe foorth where they are Cap. 35. fol. 450. FINIS CHAP. I. Howe vnder pretence of the Prophetes loue to Syon some men would gladly set vp their owne fancies THe holy Prophet Esay foreseeing the miserable captiuitie which the Iews for their transgressions were to sustaine vnder the kinges of Babell did thinke it necessary to prepare their heartes to patience by assuring them that the Lord in his due time would worke their ioyfull and happy deliuerance To the which purpose amongst many other most notable perswasions prophecies he vseth these wordes for Syons sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forth as the light and saluation therof as a burning lampe that is donec erigam piorum animos spe futurae salutis c vntill I may confirme the minds of the godly saith Caluin with the hope of their restitution againe so as they may vnderstand and be fully perswaded that God will be the deliuerer of his Church The false Prophet H.N. the moste illuminated father of the family of loue counterfaiting the imitation of the Prophet of God in this place doth take vppon him to tell the world of a farre greater captiuitie not of 70. yeares but of more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that is euer since the Apostles times Wherein saith he darkenes of error hath ouershadowed the earth lumen vitae incognitum factum est the light of life hath been made vnknowen and the trueth hath been hid as vnder the maske of Popery vntill this day of loue He turneth the whole doctrine of our saluation into a vaine mysterie an allegoricall conceit of his own leauing the Church no mediator at all besides himselfe He hath framed a platforme or new kingdome and gospell of his owne inuention bearing this title Euangelium regni dei the gospell of the kingdome of God Into this kingdome as Vicegerentes he hath brought for our ministers his seniores sanctae intelligentiae Elders of the holy vnderstanding patres familiae Christi fathers of the family of Christ and for our Archbishops and Bishops his Primates or principall Elders his seniores parentes Elder fathers and I know not how many illuminated and deified gouernours And perseuering in these and in many other such like very grosse fond imaginations he lewdly presumeth to apply the said place of the Prophet to himselfe and his owne conceites for the better animating of his followers to sticke fast vnto him saying O Syon tua causa non silebo c O Syon for thy sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes thereof breake forth as the light saluation thereof as a burning lampe that is in effect vntill the holy gouernment of the family of loue bee established vppon the earth T.C. a man I confesse not to be sorted with H.N. were it not vpon this occasion wil needs take vpō him likewise the person of the Prophet and to aduertise vs of a wonderfull seruitude that hath continued in the Church of God in effect with H.N. from the apostles times also which yet remaineth as he saith in the church of England From the which seruitude he reckoneth that it shall neuer be deliuered vntill it submit it selfe to be newly reformed again by the aduise of his deepe vnderstanding assisted with those that diligently wait vpon his illuminated deuises after the maner of Geneua To winne himselfe therefore the better credite for bringing this to passe hee laieth about him and would haue al things turned topsie turuie as they say euen the vpside downe Our ministery their callings our seruice our sacraments and all we haue is out of ioint Councels fathers histories they are but dishcloutes with him he shaketh them off as it were with a shrugge they are indeed as after it shal appeare no body in his handes but he flingeth them here and there at his pleasure He in like sorte with the assistance of his partakers hath framed after the fashion of Geneua a platforme and newe kingdome or rather an infinite number of litle petite kingdomes but yet euery one of them of an absolute power aswell ouer Lordes Earles Dukes Princes Kinges and Kingdomes as ouer the meanest whosoeuer vnder them This kingdome he would impose vpon this land Wherein for our Archbishops Bishops ministers c hee placeth his graund Elders whome he tearmeth pastors his second sort of Elders whome he tearmeth Doctors his third sorte of Elders whome he tearmeth Gouernors ioyning vnto them Deacons to carry their purses and widdows to wash their feete where neede shall require And with this deuise he is so possessed that hee