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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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poore Sheepe and Lambs of Gods fold there you feare not most stoutly to make wide wounds and make no b●n●s of it Put true Protestants doe hold that the wider the rent is made between them and Rome the better it is I know this is to you as the widening of a ghastly wound But it is the truth Yet you put us in some hope to heare what you will say when you are forced to it As Cowards will fight most terribly when they are forced to it Though I hope you will not indanger Rome more then her errors indanger her own salvation L. p. 149. Nor can you say that Israel from the time of the separation was not a Church for there were true Prophets in it Elias Elizeus and others and thousands that had not bowed knees to Baal P. But I can say and that upon good evidence that Israel the ten Tribes from the time of their setting up and following the Calves were no true visible Church of God For they had no visible signes or markes of a visible Church Their whole Religion consisted in the worship of the two Calves neither had they any Leviticall Priesthood or Priests of Aarons order nor went they up three times in the yeare to worship at Ierusalem according the Law 1 King 12.28 29 30 31 32 ●3 Here was not one footstep of a visible true Church of God but of the Devil indeed whom they worshiped in the Calves But say you there were true Prophets in it True But that was upon some extraordinary occasion when they were sent and prophecied But for all their Prophecyings did the King and People abandon their Calves Yea when Elias had caused Baals Prophets to be slain or when Iehu slew all the remainder of them and their worshipers both he and the People followed the Calves still And besides they had not true Priests but those of Ieroboams Order And if they had no true Priests will you allow them for all their Prophets to be a true Church of God Doe you not exclude all the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas from being true Churches of God because notwithstanding all their Prophets to wit Preachers and Ministers of God they have no Priests no Prelates no Priesthood Would you account or call Rome a true Church if she had not her Priesthood Although her Priesthood is of no other Order then that of Ieroboam of humane Ordinance not of Divine Institution sacrificing Priests as those were Now as Ierome saith as you cite at after Vbi non est Sacerd●s non est Ecclesia Where there is no Priest there is no Church Israel had no true Priest and so no true worship of God Nor doth Ierome and so the antient Fathers when they used the word Sacerdos thereby meane any such sacrificing Priests as are at this day in the Church of Rome For the Fathers held no Transubstantiation ergo no sacrificing Priests Whereas your Romish Priests have no other Order but of sacrificing Priests expresly in their Ordination in these words Take thou a power to sacrifice the body of Iesus Christ upon the Altar or to the like effect And this by the way proveth Rome to be no better a Church of God then that of the ten Tribes was when they had their Calves and Priests sutable And as for those Prophets you speake of Elias and Elizeus were their Prophecies regarded Nay were they not persecuted by Ahab and Iez●bel and their Son Iehoram Yea and 100 Prophets of the Lord more whom good Obadiah hid in a Cave and fed with bread and water and so preserved them from Iezebels fury Yea and all the Prophets whom the Lord sent were they not persecuted by the State and Court of Israel Was not Amos forbid by Amasiah King Ieroboams Court-Priest to preach at Bethel saying Prophecy no more at Bethel for it is the Kings Chappell and it is the Kings Court And did not this Court-Priest complaine of the Prophet to King Ieroboam saying Amos hath conspired against thee in the midst of the house of Israel the Land is not able to beare all his words And it were well if there were no such Priests in Christian Kings Courts that doe such offices against the Lords Prophets and Preachers complaining of them to the King that they are a sort of factious Conspirators against him such as those whom you have called shallower waters as before and the Land cannot beare all their words although they speake nothing but truth which Gods word teacheth and gives them good warrant for But this by the way To return to Israel Is a people presently a Church upon the coming of a Prophet or Minister of God to preach unto them untill they doe imbrace Gods word and set up his pure worship amongst them But those ten Tribes still minced and contemned Gods word and persecuted Gods Prophets that were sent unto them and with a high hand maintained their Calfe-worship the Devils service though they pretend it was Gods service as Exod. 32. These are thy Gods ô Israel that brought thee out of Aegypt untill there was no remedy that the Lord gave them up to perpetuall Captivity Againe I cannot but a little wonder that your Lordship should so grosly forget your selfe as because of a Prophet or two to give such a state the stile of a true Church of God For do you any where allow a true Church which hath no Priests And it is cleare that Israel then had no true Priests but counterfeit such as Rome now hath So in this respect rather I suppose you mean that was then a true Church because of their Priests such as they were Baalish such as your Babylonish Priests as good an Argument to prove Rome a true Church But you alledge there were thousands among them that had not bowed knees to Baal 'T is true God told Elias when he complained he was left alone that he had reserved to himselfe 7000. that had not bowed the knee to Baal nor kissed his mouth But they were all so hid that you see the Prophet himselfe knew no such thing till the Lord told him They made no open profession of the true Religion And if they had any private meetings to pray together and to read and expound the Law will your Lordship call that a Church Though those Assemblies were indeed the true Churches of God But would not you if you had been in Amaziah the Priests stead have called those private meetings Conventicles and would have hunted them out with your Pursuivants And therefore those seven thousand not being of the Kings Religion nor Communion Ecclesiasticall with the other many thousands of Israel and lying hid in Corners here and there they would not denominate the whole state of the ten Tribes a true visible Church of God themselves living as it were invisible at least so invisible as though others took notice of their Persons where they conversed yet they saw not their Religion for
the malignity and iniquity of the Times shall lay upon me which I am most willing to undergoe for his sake who suffered death that we might live And never had I more imployment to exercise me in any age Mother Iustice what sayst thou Iustice. Deare Mother I hold it both just and necessary that the Reply be published both for the beating down of the insolencie of the Relator and the raysing up of the drooping spirits of Gods people and the setling them in the Truth As for presenting it to the King though I be not against it yet for my part I have engaged my selfe in an Appeale to the High and Right●ous Iudge of all the world for Iustice in this Cause where I shall be sure to have it So as I resolve not to descend to any inferiour Court and there too where the like Cause inferiour to none for pure innocencie and that also upon Appeale so foulely miscarried So as I am altogether taken up in waiting for an Answer from my Righteous Iudge wherein I shall desire my Sister Patience to lend me so much of her vertue as may preserve my Attendance from fainting Mother Mercy what sayst thou Mercy Deare Mother I am ingaged with my Sister Iustice in the same Petition to the throne of Iustice and Mercy that the Righteous Iudge will for his mercy sake to his people give righteous judgement between them and the Relator for else they and the Cause must fall to ground And this course I stick unto not that I dissent from my other Sisters but what your selfe and they shall resolve on in this case my Petition with my Sister Iustice may stand in no small stead when GOD shall be pleased to move the Kings heart to vindicate the Cause of Christ and of his innocent people from the unjust and unmercifull dealing of the Relator against whom I stand a dayly Petitioner with my Sister Iustice not departing from the Court-gate of heaven till we have a full Answer Mother Verity what sayst thou Verity Deare Mother I would willingly accompany my other Sisters to the Court in presenting the Reply to the King but that there I am better known then trusted So as I could never yet have any good successe there Insomuch as I have made my selfe as they have made me altogether a stranger at Court because my naked simplicity can no way suit with the garbe of the Court-fashion which can turn themselvs into all formes but mine which is unchangeable Yet if my Sister Hope could lend me her habit I durst adventure with my Sisters once more within the Court-gates in hope the Courtiers would not reject me as not knowing me to be Verity And should they by my language descry me yet seeing me in Hopes habit they might perhaps turn Truths Disciples in hope of some gaine or preferment so much affiance they have in hopes But alas their hope is nothing a Kin to my Sister Hope for her object are things spirituall and eternall but theirs onely temporall And besides the Relator hath forced his Pack with such a deale of trumpery and painted stuffe gilded over with the glittering Titles of Truth and Peace and Piety and Devotion and the Church and the like that these his faire polished Bristow-stones are preferred by his Court-Disciples before the true and precious Diamonds because presented in their ragged or russet Coat so as these prove not merchantable there where otherwise even Truth it selfe is bought and sold. And therefore it shal be sufficient that my Sisters so many as goe weare me as alwayes as a Jewell in their bosomes so I shall not be taken notice of and the fewer they appeare the better least the Prelate conjure them down for a sort of Factious Spirits as he did those THREE of late in the Starre-Chamber I have said Mother Prayer what sayst thou Prayer Deare Mother and all my deare Sisters here present come I pray you and kneele down here and assist me by joyning in earnest supplication to our GOD that he would direct and lead us in that way which in this businesse may most conduce to the advancement of the Cause of Christ and the honour of the King Prayer O Lord God Almighty Who shall not feare thee thou King of Saints Great and marvelous are thy works just and true are thy wayes Thou art the great King over all the Earth the righteous Iudge of all the world the GOD that hearest Prayer and helpest thy People when they cry unto thee and judgest their cause when thou seest their strength is gone But how long LORD Holy and True when wilt thou arise and have mercy upon Sion Is not now the time the set time come Is it not now a day of rebuke and blasphemy Are not the children brought to the birth and there is none to deliver How long shall thy people cry and thou answerest not How long shall the enemy roare and thou regardest not How long shall he blaspheme thy Name For ever Why pluckest thou not thy right hand out of thy bosome Art not thou our King of old working Salvation in the midst of the Earth Didst not thou divide the Sea for thy People to passe through And art not thou the same GOD of Israel still Or is thine arme shortened that it cannot save And dost thou not remember this how the enemy hath reproached O LORD and blasphemed thy Name And wilt thou deliver the soule of thy Turtle Dove unto the Beast Wilt thou forget the Congregation of thy poore for ever Remember thy Covenant O Lord for we are thy People and thou art our GOD. Other Lords besides thee have had dominion over us but by thee onely will we make mention of thy Name And yet dost thou not see the darke places of the Earth full of the habitations of Cruelty O let not the oppressed returne ashamed The poore and needy cry unto thee they trust in thee they waight for thee that they may praise thy Name Arise therfore O GOD plead thine own Cause remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily Forget not the voyce of thine enemies the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually And now behold here spread before thee a Book of Reproaches and Blaspemies against thy Majesty and against thy Sonne Iesus Christ and against thy Holy Spirit and against thy Holy Word and against thy Holy Ministers and against thy Holy People and against thy Holy and Pure Worship yea and against the Kings Sacred Majesty whom thou hast set over thy People to governe them according to Truth and Equity under whose Patronage and Authority notwithstanding the Relator is bold to shrowd this his Book with all the Blasphemies and Falsities therein contained So as hereby not onely the exterpation of all true Faith and Religion in the Land is threatned but consequently the utter ruine and extermination of the Nation it selfe hastened already fitted as dry fewell for thy wrath by this
called this Iehoram Ahabs Sonne a Murtherers Sonne was at least Scandalous The Prophet Ieremy is sent to the King and Queen to admonish them to repent and to humble themselves 'T is true indeed the Nobles incensed the King against Ieremy as a troubler of the Land The Prophet Nathan told King David Thou art the Man The Prophet Isaiah named that Treasurer Shebna The Prophet Hosea said of the company of Priests Chap. 6.9 They make the King glad with their lyes as also vers 5. All these Prophets of the LORD it seems were Scandalous men And was Christs tongue Scandalous when he spake to some saying Goe and tell Herod that Fox Or Pauls in naming Demas and Alexander the Copper Smith and Hymeneus and Philetus And Iohn for telling of Diotrephes his ambitious pride and prating against the Apostle and playing other Prelaticall pranks Alas Sir you want either leasure or the spirit of right judgement to observe and discerne the nature of such things And what then will you say of the Prophet Isaiah who thus thundereth against the State and against Ierusalem How is the faithfull City become an Harlot It was full of Iudgement Righteousn●sse lodged in it but now murtherers Thy silver is become drosse thy wine mixt with water Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of theeves Every one loveth gifts and followeth after rewards they judge not the Fatherlesse neither doth the cause of the Widow come unto them And what of the Prophet Micah Who saith Truly I am full of power by th● spirit of the Lord and of judgement and of might to declare unto Iacob his transgressions and to Israel his sinne Heare this I pray you ye Heads of the house of Iacob and Princes of the house of Israel that abhorre judgement and pervert all equity that build up Sion with bloud and Ierusalem with iniquity The Heads therof judge for reward and the Priests therof teach for hire and the Prophets therof divine for money yet will they leane upon the Lord and say Is not the Lord among us None evill can come upon us And againe The good man is perished out of the Earth and there is none upright among men They all lie in wait for blood they hunt every man his brother with a net That they may doe evill with both hands earnestly The Prince asketh and the Iudge asketh for a reward and the Great man he uttereth his mischievous d●sire so they wrap it up The best of them is as a briar the most upright is sharper then a thorne hedge the day of thy watchmen thy visitation cometh now shal be their perplexity And what of the Prophet Zephanie Woe to her that is filthy and polluted and to the oppressing City She obeyed not the voyce she rec●ived not correction she trusted not in the Lord she drew not neere to her God Her Princes within her are roaring Lyons her Iudges are evening Wolves they gnaw not the b●nes till the m●r●ow Her Prophets are light and trecherous persons her Priests have polluted the Sanctuary they have done violence to the Law And what againe of the Prophet Isay For the terrible one is brought to nought and the Scorner is consumed and all that w●●ch for iniquity are cut off That make a man an offender for a word that lay a snare for him that reprooveth in the gate and turn aside the just for a thing of nought Infinite are the Instances in this kind both in the Prophets and elswhere as in the New Testament This is the very dialect and usuall language of the Prophets when they reproove sin and especially scarlet and predominate sinnes of the Court and of Great ones They deale plainly roughly and home So Iohn Baptist. So Christ O Generation of vipers how shall ye escape the vengeance to come the damnation of hell So Paul to Elymas the Sorcerer O full of all Subtilty and all mischiefe thou Child of the Devil thou enemy of all righteousnesse wilt thou not cease to pervert the right wayes of the Lord And Paul here is said to be full of the Holy Ghost And Elymas the Sorcerer was of great power with Sergius Paulus the Governour Now my Lord to recollect all with some application Suppose either your Lordship had lived in those times of the Prophets and of Christ and his Apostles or they had lived in these our times and had used the like language to you and your Compeeres which they used to the wicked Priests Prophets and Princes of Israel what would you have done Would you not have been one of the foremost in stoning some in sawing some in beheading some in crucifying some in imprisoning some in scourging some and if it had been then in use as it is not much unlike the Crosse in pilloring some and cutting off of the Eares closse to the stumps with many other grievous things And when ye had done all this would ye not have loaden them with the infamous reproaches of Bitter Men Scandalous tongues Libellous pennes and Seditious persons But perhaps you will say as the Pharisees did If we had been in the dayes of our Fathers we would not have been partakers with them in the bloud of the Prophets But Christ tells them wherefore ye be witnesses unto your selves that ye are the Children of them which killed the Prophets Fill up then the measure of your Fathers Ye Serpents ye generation of Vipers how can ye escape the damnation of hell Wherefore behold I send unto you Prophets and Wisemen and Scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucifie and some of them shall you scourge in your Synagogues and persecute them from City to City That upon you may come all the righteous bloud shed upon the earth from the bloud of righteous Abel unto the bloud of Zacharias the Son of Barachias whom ye slew between the Temple and the Altar What did these hypocriticall Pharisees ●lay Zacharias which was many hundred yeares before So faith Christ here Why but they professed the contrary True and so will you But did not those Pharisees crucifie the Lord Iesus Christ the Prince of the Prophets and afterwards persecuted and slew his Apostles and that for no other cause but for that truth which they preached Thus hereby they prooved themselves guilty of all the blood of the Prophets shed by their murtherous Fore-Fathers So as if they had then lived they that crucified Christ himselfe would also have slaine his Prophets who spake before of him Now what fence hath your Lordship against this Sword of Christ to ward off the like imputation of guilt of the blood-shed of the Saints and Servants of God Have you not shed the bloud of a Minister of Christ and that for no other cause then for beareing witnesse to the truth in discharge of that Embassage committed unto him And so consequently have you not brought upon