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A45835 VindiciƦ veritatis, or, An impartial account of two several disputations the one being on the 12th. and the other on the 26th of February, 1671. between Mr. Danson a non-conformist minister, and Mr. Ives, upon this question, (viz) whether the doctrine of the possibility of some true believers final apostacy, be true, or no? Published to prevent false reports. Together with an appendix; in which the said question is more fully resolved in the affirmative, and the absurd[i]t[i]es of the negative opinion detected from the pens of divers of the patrons of it. By a lover of truth and peace.; Contention for truth Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1672 (1672) Wing I1106A; ESTC R218068 84,282 219

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were in this number of Elect. So that this doctrine of the possibility of some True believers fa●ing away finally no way interfers with the doctrin of Election not do those Scriptures that speak concerning Election so much as call the truth of this doctrin in question The other ground of the impossibility of any True believers falling away finally is a mistake of Scripture promises here let me give notice of two ●inds of promises in the Scripture about this matter First such as though they seem to be absolute yet they have conditions implyed in them Secondly of such Scriptures as promise the performance of those conditions the first sort are as follows Mat. 19 18. You that have followed me in the regeneration or in the Resurrection shall sit upon 12 Thrones judging the 12 Tribes of Israel Now this promise seems to be absolute and Judas was one of those 1● to whom it was made but the condition implyed was that they should alway to the end continue in his service and therefore Judas falling away and not performing the condition never came to receive the fruition of the promise Again 1 Sam. 2.30 I said indeed that thy house the house of thy Father should walk beforeme for ever but now the Lord saith be it far from me for them that honour me I will honour c. So the Land of Canaan is often promised to the seed of Abraham for an everlasting possession yet Deut. 4.27 the Lord tells them that if they corrupt themselves He will scatter them among the Nations and they shall be left few in number among the Heathen where he will lead them And so Ezek 11.17 18 19. God promises as one would think upon the first view absolutely that he would gather Israel from among the People and give them one heart and put a new spirit in them but yet he tells them in Chap. 36.27 37. v. compared together that he will do this upon a condition as is there exprest yet for all this will I be inquired of by the house of Israel and so Jer. 31. Jer. 32.40 41 there we read of a Covenant which some call absolute but I must needs say an absolute Covenant in their sense is absolute non-sense in which God promises many things but yet he tells the same People Isa 55.3 That IF they will incline their Ears and come to him he will make an everlasting Covenant with them even the sure mercies of David in this sense God's promises that sem absolute in form are to be conditionally understood As be that believeth on the Son hath everlasting Life and shall not come into condemnation John 8.34 John 5.24 Plalm 125.1 He that trusts in the Lord shall be as mount Sion that never shall be removed Now if these promises are absolute then this must be the sense of such Scriptures that if men have once truly believed and trusted in God they shall inevitably be saved let them hereafter trust or distrust believe or disbelieve or whether they be not or whether they be Whoremongers Adulterers or Idolaters yet they shall be saved and abide for ever Now if this be not the sense then these promises and all of that kind must be understood conditionally that he that believeth and continueth in believing and that trusteth in the Lord and continueth in so doing upon these tearms and conditions he shall be saved and abide for ever and to this agrees all these plain and express Scriptures which being well considered will explain all those texts and promises that seem to be absolute as to the form of them John 5 10. IF YE keep my Commandments ye shall abide in my Love and John 14.23 IF any man love me he will keep my sayings and my Father will love him and we will come unto him and dwell with him 1 Col. 1.21 22 23. And you that were in time past Strangers and Enemies in your minds by wicked works now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh to present you blameless and unreproveable in his sight IF YE continue in the Faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel c. Heb. 3.14 We are made partakers of Christ IF WE hold fast the beginning of OUR CONFIDENCE firm unto the end Rev. 10. be thou faithful unto Death and I will give thee a crown of Life Mat. 24.13 he that endureth to the end shall be saved Heb. 10.38 the just shall live by Faith but if he draw back my Soul shall have no pleasure in him Much like these promises that seem absolute are such Scriptures that promise eternal Life to men without any exception or making the least question of their perseverance when that life and blessing promised is suspended upon their change as he that believeth shall not see Death and he that drinketh saith our Saviour of the Water that I shall give him shall never Thirst this plainly implies that these promises suppose their continuance in so doing so Christ saith he that confesseth me before men him will I confess before my Father which is in Heaven whosoever shall deny me before men him will I deny before my Father which is in Heaven Mat 10.32 33. Now Judas did confess Christ before men but he had no right or claim to this promise because he did not Persevere in this confession in like manner Peter denyed Christ before men but he was not denyed by Christ before his Father in Heaven because he did not persist and dye in the denying of him But yet we may see that the promises of the one and the threatening of the other is made without exception and wherever we read of any such promises a possibility of a change is supposed for when the Scripture saith He that believeth in the Son bath everlasting Life and shall not come into condemnation it doth no more suppose it impossible for that man to fall away and have this promise suspended then the other text that saith He that believeth not shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth or remaineth upon him doth suppose it Impossible for this man ever to believe and to have the wrath of God or the execution of vengeance suspended upon his believing to this may be reduced all Scriptures that seem to promise a blessing or threaten wrath according to mens present state and condition though both the one and the other may be suspended upon their change and that an impossibility of a change is not to be understood more by the one Scripture that promises Salvation to the believer then by the other that tells us wrath remains upon the unbeliever But to this it is usually replyed that though it be true there are promises that are conditional yet God hath promised to perform those conditions for them to whom be graciously makes such promises and therefore it is not possible for any True believer to fall away finally This perswasion