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A12213 A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. 1625 (1625) STC 22524; ESTC S117400 88,953 134

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other words that follow namely In omni pietate c Take all the words of S. Paul together and they be these I exhort saith he that first of all supplications prayers intercessions 1. Tim. 2.1.2 and giving of thankes be made for all men for Kings and all that are in authoritie that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all godlinesse and honestie By which words so put together it appeareth That S. Paul would have Christians to pray thus specially for Kings and Princes not onely to this end which my Adversary supposeth viz. for the mantainance and preservation of externall peace and correspondencie of humane societie but to this end also and that chiefely that Pietie Godlinesse and Religion may by their meanes be continued countenanced and protected amongst them And this had the Christian Emperors learned in ancient time For Iustinian that Christian Emperor in his dayes Novel Const. 6. spake thus The true Religion of God and honest conversation of the Priests is our chiefest care Legum Theod. No●●el tit 3. de In●ae●● Samaritaine And in this sort likewise spake Valentinian and Theodosius Emperors saying The search of true Religion we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Majestie And therefore also did S. Augustine say long agone That it is enjoyned Kings from God Aug. contr Crescun lib. 3 cap ●1 that in their kingdomes they should commaund good things and forbid evill things not onely such things as belong to humane societie but such things also as belong to Gods Religion This cleare and most evident testimonie of S. Augustine to declare the authoritie of Kings aswell in matters Divine and concerning Religion as in matters Civill Temporall I alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke pag. 10. whereunto neverthelesse as to many other things in my booke contayned My Adversarie is pleased to answere nothing The second Position he busieth himselfe in is that the Regall Power or authoritie is subordinate to the S●cerdotall or Spirituall It is true that Kings Princes notwithstanding their Regall power be subordinate and subject to God and his authoritie But what of this Indeede if Ecclesiasticall Ministers spake to Kings and Princes in their owne names and by their owne authoritie and uttered their owne will and pleasure there might be some reason in that which he would conclude but seeing they are to speake unto them not their owne will but the will and word of the Almightie and in his Name and as Embassadors Ministers Messengers and servants unto him no such consequent can be inferred 2. Cor 5 20. 1 Cor. 4 1.2 For if a King send an Esquier or any other inferior servant of his on a message to a Duke Earle or other Noble-man of the Realme This servant speaking in the King his Masters name and delivering his message is therein to be obeyed Will any thereupon conclude Ergo That Esquier or servant is greater or superior as in respect of himselfe or of his owne person then eyther the Duke or the Earle or the Noble-man No man I thinke will be so absurd And yet my Adversarie goeth on and amplifieth the Sacerdotall and spirituall power saying That how much the Soule in perfection exceedes the Bodie The eternall blisse the temporall felicitie The Divine Lawes the humane lawes By somuch doth the Spirituall authoritie exceede the Temporall But all this while he should remember and observe wherein and in what respects it is that this excellencie of the one above the other doth consist For as it is true that in respect of converting soules and fitting them for Gods kingdome by preaching of Gods Word Administring of the Sacraments and exercise of the Ecclesiasticall Discipline the Spirituall function and authoritie is to be preferred before the Regall or temporall So no lesse true is it that in respect of the temporall Power of the Sword externally to command compell and to punish offendors in causes both Ecclesiasticall and Civill the Regall Temporall Office and Authoritie is to be preferred before the Episcopall or Sacerdotall When therefore he supposeth that the King or Prince in respect of the Priest is but as the bodie is in respect of the Soule and that hee hath no more power and authoritie over Priests and Bishoppes then the bodie hath over the Soule How doth he prove this fond conceite For it is not the credite or testimonie of his S. Thomas as he calleth him who lived more then 1200. yeares after CHSIST and was overwhelmed with the corruption of his time and wedded to the Sea of Rome that can bee any sufficient proofe of that idle fantazie Yea it is apparant that to some purposes the Regall Power Office hath in it the nature and resemblance of the soule aswell as the Sacerdotall or Episcopall hath to some other purposes For as the soule commandeth the bodie so hath the King power to command the Priest and may by as good right punish all maner of offendors Civilly and by temporall punishments as Bishops and Clergie men may punish any Ecclesiastically and by the Church censures To make this the better to appeare beside that which is spoken in my former Booke observe first that Moses who was as a King or a Prince in Israell commanded not only the Levites Deut. 33.5 Deut. 31 2●.26 which bare the Arke of the Covenant of the Lord and that in a matter Ecclesiasticall and concerning their very Office but he commanded also even Aaron the high Priest in a matter likewise Ecclesiasticall and concerning his verie Office saying thus unto him Take the Censer Numb 16 46.4● and put fire therein off the Altar and put therein Incense and goe quickely unto the Congregation make an Attonement for them For there is wrath gone out from the Lord the plague is begun Then Aaron tooke as Moses commanded him c. He Exod. 32.21 2● moreover called Aaron the high Priest to an account for his bad doings and removed him for the same Whereupon Aaron answered humbly and submissively unto him as to his Soveraigne Lord saying Let not the wrath of my Lord waxe fierce c. Numb 12.11 In like sort did Aaron speake unto Moses in another place saying My Lord I beseech thee c. 1. Sam. 22.12.15 So did also Abimelech the high Priest answere to his king submissively and dutifully saying thus unto him Here am I my Lord c. Let not the King impute any thing to his servant nor to all the house of my Father for thy servant knew nothing of all this lesse or more The Prophets likewise as well as the Priests and high Priests did acknowledge this humble submission and subjection unto their kings as is evident by the example of the Prophet Nathan who when he came into the presence of the King 1. King 1 23. c. he made obeysance to the king upon his face to the ground
c. Ioshua the successor of Moses did likewise as a King or Prince commaund even the Priests and Levites aswell as the rest of the people as appeareth by the acclamation and answere they made unto him Iosh 1.17.18 saying thus As vve obeyed Moses in all things so will wee obey thee c. Whosoever shall rebell against thy commandement and will not obey thy words in all that thou commandest him let him be put to death Iosh 6.6 Iosh 5 3.4 Iosh 5.10 Iosh 7.24.25 Iosh 8 30. Iosh 8.34.35 And it is further manifest that he also dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Temporall for he would have the children of Israell to be Circumcised and the Passeover to be kept and the Man that had offended in the excommunicate thing to be punished He also builded an Altar for their sacrifices offerings He reade the whole Law unto them the blessings and cursings There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded which Ioshua reade not before all the Congregation of Israell aswell before the Women and the Children as the stranger that was conversant among them Hee renewed the Covenant between God and the people and caused them to put away the strange Gods that were amongst them Iosh 24.23.24.25.31 Insomuch that by his diligent care and good governement Israell served the Lord all the dayes of Ioshua Likewise of that Godly King Iosiah it is recorded that he commanded the high Priest aswell as the other Priests and dealt in matters also Ecclesiasticall and concerning Gods service and Religion For thus it is written of him That hee commanded Hilkiah the high Priest 2 King 23.4 and the priests of the second Order and the keepers of the Doore to bring out of the Temple of the Lord all the vessels that were made for Baal and for the Grove and for all the Hoste of heaven and he burnt them without Ierusalem in the fields of Kedron 2 King 23.5 and carried the powder of them into Bethel And hee put downe the Chemarims whom the kings of Iuda had founded to burne incense in the high places and in the Cities of Iuda and about Ierusalem and also them that burnt incense unto Baal to the Sunne and to the Moone and to the Planets and to all the Hoste of heaven c. He commanded also the Passeover to be kept c. Hee purged Iuda and Ierusalem vers 21. from the high places the Groves and the carved and molten Images Yea 2 Chro. 34. vers 3.4.7.33 he tooke away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertayned to the Children of Israell ● compelled all that were found in Israell to serve the Lord their God Had not also King Salomon authoritie over the Priests and Levites and did not he likewise deale in matters Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion when he set the courses of the Priests to their offices according to the order of David his Father 2. Chro. 8.14.15 the Levites in their watches to prayse and minister before the Priests everie day and the Porters by their courses at everie Gate For so was the commandement of David the man of God And the Text saith That they declined not from the commandement of the King concerning the Priests and the Levites c. He removed also Abiathar from being priest unto the Lord and set Sadoc in his roome 1. King 2.27.35 1 King 8.22.23 24.25.26.27 Hee also builded an house and Temple unto God and did dedicate the Temple in his owne person Did not also King Asa meddle with men and matters Ecclesiasticall 2 Chro. 14.3.4.5 when he tooke away the Altars of the strange Gods and the high places and brake downe the Images and cut downe the groves and commanded Iuda to seeke the Lord God of their Fathers and to doe according to the Law commandement c. Therefore the kingdome was quiet before him And he tooke an oath of all Iuda that Whosoever would not seeke the Lord God of Israell should be slaine whether he were small or great Man or Woman And they sware unto the Lord with a loud voyce and with shouting and with Trumpets and with Cornets And all Iuda rejoyced at the Oath 2 Chron 15.12 13 14.15.16 c. for they had sworne unto the Lord with all their heart and sought him with an whole desire and he was found of them Hee also deposed Maachah his Mother from her regencie because shee had made an Idoll in a Grove and hee broke downe her Idoll and stamped it and burnt it at the brooke Kidron King Iehosaphat did the like when he sought the Lord God of his Fathers 2. Chron. 17.3 4 5.6.7.8.9 and walked in his commandements and not after the doings of Israell Therefore the Lord stablished the kingdome in his hand And all Iuda brought to Iehosaphat presents and he had riches and honour in abundance And he lift up his heart unto the wayes of the Lord. Moreover he tooke away the high Places and Groves out of Iuda Hee also sent his Princes and with them Priests and Levites to teach in the Cities of Iuda they taught in Iuda had the Booke of the Law of the Lord with them and went throughout all the Cities of Iuda ● Chron. 19 8. and taught the people Againe in Ierusalem Iehosaphat set of the Levites and of the Priests and of the chiefe of the Families of Israell for the judgement and cause of the Lord c. Did not also that good and Godly king Hezekiah shew his authoritie over Priests and Levites 2. Chron. 29 3 4.5.6.7.8.9.10 11 12.13.14.15.16 and in matters also Ecclesiasticall when he opened the dores of the house of the Lord and brought in the Priests and the Levites and said thus unto them Heare me yee Leuites sanctifie now your selves and sanctifie the house of the Lord God of your fathers and carrie forth the filthinesse out of the Sanctuarie c. And they gathered their brethren and sanctified themselves and came according to the commandement of the King and by the wordes of the Lord to clense the house of the Lord And the Priests went into the inner parts of the house of the Lord to clense it and brought out all the uncleannesse that they found in the Temple into the Court of the house of the Lord And the Levites tooke it to carrie it out to the brooke Kidron Hee also commanded the Priests Vers 21 2● the Sonnes of Aaron to offer sacrifices on the Altar of the Lord And hee sent to all Israell and Iuda wrote Letters to Ephraim and Manasseh that they should come to the house of the Lord at Ierusalem to keepe the Passeover unto the Lord God of Israell Hee appointed the courses of the Priests and Levites 2. Chron. 30.1 by their turnes everie man according to his Office 2 Chron. 31.2 both Priests and Levites for the burnt offerings
strange Clearke be received or Ordered without Letters of Commendation and licence from his owne Bishop Cap. 50. 25. That no man be made Priest under thirtie yeares of age neyther then at randome but appointed and fastned to a certaine Cure Cap. 11. That no Bishop meddle with giving orders in another mans Diocesse Cap. 2● Cap. 42. That onely the Bookes Canonicall be reade in the Church That the false name of Martyres and uncertaine memories of Saints be not observed Cap. 15. Cap. 82. That Sunday be kept c. That the Pastors and Ministers rightly preach and teach the people committed to their charge Jbidem That they suffer not any man under them to propose to the people opinions of their owne devising not agreeable to the holy Scriptures but shall themselves teach profitable and good doctrine tending to life everlasting and instruct others to doe the like Cap. 22. And first of all they shall teach all men generally to beleeve the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost to bee one Omnipotent and Eternall and invisible God Creator of Heaven and Earth and of all things in them And that there is but one God-head Substance and Majestie in the three Persons of the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost Item They shall preach E d●m cap. 82. That the Sonne of God tooke flesh by the working of the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary shee remayning alwayes a Virgin for the salvation and reparation of makinde That he suffered was buried the third day rose againe and ascended into heaven and that he shall come againe in Majestie to judge all men c. Item Ibidem They shall diligently preach the Resurrection of the dead Item They shall teach all men with all diligence Ibidem for what offences they shall be condemned with the Divell to paines everlasting The Apostle telling us That the workes of the flesh are manifest which are fornication uncleannesse wantonnesse idolatrie witchcraft enmities emulations wrath contentions seditions heresies envie murthers drunkenesse gluttonie and such like of which I tell you now as I tould you before saith the Apostle That they which commit such things shall not inherit the kingdome of God These things therefore which the great Preacher of the Church of God recko●eth by name let them be with all care prohibited remembring how terrible that saying is That they which doe such things shall not come into Gods kingdome Moreover Admonish them saith he Ibidem with all earnestnesse concerning the love of God and of their neighbour concerning Faith and Hope in God Humilitie Patience Chastitie Continencie Liberalitie Mercie giving of Almes acknowledging of their sinnes And concerning forgiving of such as trespasse against them according to the Lords Prayer assuring them that they which doe these things shall obtaine the kingdome of God This we charge and enjoyne you saith he speaking to the Bishops and Cleargie men with so much the more diligence because we know that in the latter times shall come false teachers as the Lord in the Gospell foretold and his Apostle Paul to Timothy testifieth Caroli praefat in Leges Franc. And againe he saith thus therefore you Pastors of Christs Church and Guides of his flocke c have we directed Commissioners unto you who together with you are in our Name and by our Authoritie to redresse those things which neede reformation And to this end have wee here annexed certaine briefe Chapters of Canonicall or Ecclesiasticall institution such as we thought meetest Let no man thinke or judge this our admonition to Godlinesse to be presumpteous whereby wee seek to reforme things amisse to cut off things superfluous and to bring men to that which is right but let them rather receive it with a charitable minde For in the Booke of Kings wee reade what paines that Godly King Iosias tooke to bring the kingdome given him of God to the true worship of the same God by visiting correcting and instructing them not that we compare our selves with his sanctitie but that wee should alwayes imitate such examples of the Godly Here wee see the reason why these Chapters or Lawes were made and Commissioners appointed and sent from the King to put them in execution and that also the examples of Iosiah and such other Godly Kings of Israell and Iuda are to be made patternes and precedents and to be imitated by all Kings and Princes in the Christian Church as touching the good care endevour and paines they are to take everie way they can for the advancement of Gods Religion Legum Franc. lib. 2. cap. 1. After Charles the great were Lodowicke and Lotharius Emperors which Emperors also spake thus to the Bishops and Magistrates of their Dominions You have all no doubt eyther seene or heard that our Fathers and Progenitors after they were chosen by God to this place made this their principall studie how the honour of Gods holy Church and the state of their kingdome might be decently kept Cap. 2. And we for our parts following their example seeing it hath pleased God to appoint us that we should have care of his Church and of this kingdome are very desirous so long as we live to labour earnestly for three speciall things viz. to defend exalt honour Gods holy Church and his servants in such sort as is fit● to preserve Peace and to doe Iustice to all the people And though the chiefe of this service consist in our person Cap 9. yet by Gods and Mans Ordinance it is so devided that everie one of you in his place and calling hath a part of our charge So that I should be your admonisher and you all my coadjutors Yea not only did these Emperors extend their Authority to causes Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion but had also the Supremacie over all Bishops even over the Bishop of Rome himselfe in their times For so it appeareth by the submission which Leo the fourth Bishop of Rome made to this Lodowicke the Westerne Emperor in these words If saith he we have done otherwise then well Caus 2 quast 7. Cap. Nos si and not dealt uprightly with those that are under us we will amend all that is amisse by the judgement of your highnesse beseeching your hignesse for the better triall of these surmises to send such as in the feare of God may narrowly sift not onely the matters informed but all our doings great and small aswell as if your Majestie were present So that by lawfull examination all may be finished and nothing left undiscussed or undetermined In all things great and small this Bishop of Rome as you see submitted himselfe to the Emperor and to those Commissioners which he wou'd please to send for the sifting and examination of those matters layd to his charge promising to amend all that was amisse in him according to the Emperors owne judgement Wherefore this was not a matter of modesty or
and confuting the imagination and devise of his owne braine For the affirmative clause in the Oath is not as he imperfectly and lamely relateth it but it is this That the King is the onely Supreme Governor of this Realme and of all other his Highnesse Dominions and Countries aswell in all Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall things or causes as Temporall The negative clause followeth and is this That no forraine Prince Person Prelate State or Potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction power superioritie preheminence or authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme This word Onely in the affirmative clause hath he left out which if he had added together with all the rest of the wordes that follow in that affirmative clause he would very easily have found that to be true which I wrote namely that the effect of the negative clause is included in the former affirmative For he that affirmeth the King to be the onely Supreme Governor within his owne Dominions that in all things or causes Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall aswell as temporall doth in that speech exclude every forraine Prince person Prelate State or Potentate from having any supreme governement or any government at all without his leave and licence within his Dominions Yea it is very evident that the former affirmative clause includeth the negative clause and more For the negative clause excludeth forrain Princes persons Prelates States Potētates only from Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall Authoritie but the former affirmative excludeth them from authoritie in all things or causes both temporall spirituall Againe you see that the negative clause extendeth onely to forraine persons but the affirmative clause extendeth to any persons whosoever whether forraine or domesticall Thirdly the negative clause excludeth forraine persons from having any jurisdiction power superioritie preheminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or spirituall within this Realme But the former affirmative clause extendeth not only to this Realme or that Realme in particular but generally to all his Majesties Realms Dominiōs Countries So that the former affirmative clause in the Oath appeareth to be much more generall and of a farre larger extent then the negative is And therefore I hope I spake truely and within compasse when I said though in a parenthesis that the effect of the negative clause was included in the former affirmative I did not say as mine Adversarie supposeth me to hold that the Regall power includeth the Sacerdotall or Episcopall This is but his owne dreame imagination in the confutation whereof he laboureth in vaine For neyther I nor any of the Protestants doe hold that opinion but contrariewise doe hold them to be things distinct as is before declared But because he will needes carpe at my Logicke when he hath no cause let other men judge what a great Logician he is whilst he argueth thus The Regall power includeth not the Sacerdotall Ergo the affirmative clause in the Oath of SUPREMACIE includeth not the negative clause in the same Oath Hitherto then you see that my Adversarie notwithstanding all his storishes braggs and bravadoes hath shewed himselfe to be not onely a punie Lawyer as he confesseth himselfe to be but a punie Logician also most of all a punie Divine and that he hath not beene able to make any good Answere or to refell and confute any one Argument contayned in this first Chapter of my former Booke concerning the Supremacie and yet hath he also left a great part of that Chapter unanswered Neyther hath he made throughout his whole discourse and pleading so much as one good argument to prove his Clients cause that is the Popes supremacie though he purposed and laboured to doe it Where is it not a mervaile that he being a Lawyer and a Subject to our Soveraigne Lord the KING will date neverthelesse admitte of such a Client as the Pope is and of his cause which he knoweth before hand to be condemned by the Lawes and Statutes of the Realme and which he now may see if hee saw it not before to be also condemned by the Lawes and Statutes of God himselfe and by all the most ancient Ecclesiasticall Records But if hee be not ashamed of such a Client and his cause his Client I suppose will be ashamed of him and entertaine him no longer to pleade for him unlesse he could doe it better And yet indeede when his Clients cause is foule naught as here it appeareth to be what Lawyer be he never so learned or what Divine be hee never so profound is able to justifie it or to make it good Notwithstanding his demurrer therefore and notwithstanding that by this his plea his purpose was to arrest and stay mens judgements I trust they will all now no cause appearing to the contrarie proceede without any further delay to give their sentence against his Client for in the behalfe of these two most worthy Peerles Princes who be the complaynants against him namely for Christ IESVS in their acknowledging and publishing him onely to be the onely universall Bishop supreme Pastor and head of the whole Church Militant upon Earth aswell as of the Triumphant in Heaven and for the King in declaring and publishing him under God to be the onely Supreme Governor over all manner of persons and in all kinde of causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill within his Dominions Neyther doe I doubt but all mens judgements whensoever upon good and well advised deliberation they shall please to give them will passe accordingly In the meane time let us goe one to the second Chapter see if he have any better successe in that then he hath found in the former Concerning the second Chapter IN this second Chapter of my former Booke my Adversarie supposeth that my maine scope and purpose was to prove our Church that is the Church of the Protestants to have beene in the Apostles times But never was there saith he poore Assertion so miserably mangled And true it is indeede that it is miserably mangled and cut in pieces But by whom namely by himselfe For my Assertion is not so short as he relateth it nor is to end where he maketh it to end but is of a longer and larger extent and being produced not by parts or pieces but wholy and intirely as it ought it is this viz. That our Church was in the Apostles dayes and in all times and ages since howsoever or notwitstanding that Poperie did as an infection or corruption grow unto it the meaning true sence whereof is no more but that the growing of Poperie it being but as an infection or corruption to the Church is no impediment or argument to the contrarie but that our Church had a being in the Apostles dayes and in all succeeding times and ages that notwithstanding This will the better appeare if you take the whole Proposition or assertion and turne it into a Question For then the Question will not be as mine Adversary maketh it viz.