copy of the Indictment and of the pannel of the Jury and those were instructions to tell me what the Law allows me Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a Speech made for you that begins thus Before you plead speak to this purpose Pray my Lord I desire that may be examined and Mr. Smith may be called to give an account how he came to give the Prisoner those papers for here are abundance of niceties proposed for him to move and there will be a strange sort of proceedings at this rate if men go about to espouse the cause of Traytors Colledge I am no Traytor Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. You stand indicted of High-Treason Colledge That is by a Grand Jury made up that morning as I am informed Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a list of the names of several men of the Countrey returned to be of the Jury and particular marks set upon them who are good men and who bad men and who moderate men Colledge Ought I not to have that paper my Lord Mr. Att. Gen. No I hope not Lo. ch just Whether they are material or not material if we should judge them not material for his defence yet it will look like an hard point upon the Prisoner and to deliver them into an hand that they may be carried away or stifled in case there were a crime in the delivering of them that would not do well on the other side therefore I would have these papers put into some safe hands that what may be for the Prisoners use he may not want and yet they may not be taken away if there be occasion to use them upon another account Mr. Att. Gen. But if it please your Lordship I desire you would enter into Examination of this matter for I have an account from London by a special Messenger that there are several persons that go up and down to procure Witnesses against the Kings Evidence making it a publick Cause and here my Lord another paper which is a List of men as Witnesses picked up together against the Kings Witnesses Lo. ch just He must have that deliver him that presently Mr. Attorn Gen. But my Lord others have gone about and framed Witnesses for him L. Ch. Just You must give him a list of his Witnesses for I see not what use you can make of it Mr. Serj. jeff. This no man will oppose sure if any thing that is delivered to him be fit to be delivered the person that delivers it must come and own it but before any person delivers any papers to the Prisoner for him to make use of against the Kings Evidence we desire to know what those papers mean and who gave them Lo. Ch. Just Look you Brother we will have nothing of heat till the Tryal be over when that is over if there be any thing that requires our Examination it will be proper for us to enter into the consideration of it But in the mean while what hurt is there if the papers be put into some trusty hands that the Prisoner may make the best use of them he can and yet they remain ready to be produced upon occasion if a man be speaking for his Life though he speak that which is not material or nothing to the purpose that will be no harm to permit that Mr. Serj. jefferies With submission my Lord that is assigning him Counsel with a Witness Mr. Att. Gen. If people are permitted to go up and down and ask counsel of persons and bring it in papers to the Prisoner 't is the same thing as if Counsel came to him Here is a busie Solicitor and he gets advice from Councel and then he delivers it to the Prisoner 't is the first of the kind certainly that ever was allowed and if this be not to assign him Counsel I know not what is Lo. Ch. Just What think you of our perusing the papers Mr. Att. Gen. With all my heart my Lord. Colledge If you take away all helps from me you had as good condemn me without a Tryal Mr. Att. Gen. You ought not to have helps to plead dilatories Colledge Not to help me to my right in Law Mr. Att. Gen. We are to go upon the Fact now And my Lord I pray your jugdment about them when you have perused them Then the Judges looked upon that paper that was called the Speech L. c. j. We have read enough of this to suppress it and to examine it how this came to his hands Mr. just jones Where is Aaron Smith Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord here is another that is worse than that charging the Justice of the Nation Pray call Mr. Aaron Smith and Mr. Henry Starkey Mr. Smith appeared Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Smith did you deliver these two papers to the Prisoner Mr. Smith Does any body accuse me that I did Mr. Att. Gen. You are accused for it Mr. Smith I desire proof may be made against me Mr. Att. Gen. That will be done L. c. j. Look you we will not interrupt the Tryal with it Mr. Smith must be taken into safe custody only to secure him till we can examine it not as charged with any crime but only that he may be forth-coming to be examined Mr. Att. Gen. You do not make a direct answer Mr. Smith in the case it will be proved upon you Mr. Smith Mr. Attorney I know not what answer to make better than I have given our Law says no man is bound to accuse himself Mr. Att. Gen. But our Law says you shall be examined Mr. Smith I come to give no Informations here Mr. Attorney if I did I should be then examined Mr. Att. Gen. Here are Instructions given to the Prisoner they say you gave them Mr. Smith I desire to have it proved L. c. j. Mr. Attorney you will take a Recognizance of Mr. Smith to be forth-coming during this Sessions Mr. Smith I will not depart my Lord I assure you And I hope Mr. Attorney will take my word Mr. Att. Gen. Indeed I will not Mr. Smith because you have broken it with me already when I gave you leave to go to the Prison I did not think you would have abused that kindness to give him papers Lo. ch just Well take his Recognizance Mr. Smith 'T is high time to have a care when our Lives and Estates and all are beset here L. c. j. What do you mean by that Mr. Smith Mr. Smith I said it not meaning by it the Court for I dealare Jabhor that Expression to be so interpreted that I reflected upon the Court. L. c. j. Why do you use such loose Expressions then Mr. Smith Mr. Smith Because I have been threatned since I came to Town though I have not spoke one word in any publik company since I came Mr. just jones It seems you will reflect here in the face of the Court and in the face of the Countrey upon the Government upon the justice of the Kingdom Mr. Smith No my Lord I have told
House I should see how he was prepared with Arms and Provision Soon after I met with him and he desired me to go along and dine with him and I did so and there he did shew me his Pistols his Blunderbuss his great Sword and he shewed me his Armour Back and Breast and he shewed me his Head-piece which if I am not mistaken was covered over with Chamlet it was a very fine thing and said he These are the things which will destroy the pitiful Guards of Rowley that are kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery Colledge What did I say Sir about my Armour Mr. Smith Thus you said It was to destroy Rowley's Guards those were your words that were kept up contrary to Law and Justice to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery After I had dined with him I parted with him A little before the Parliament was to meet at Oxford I met him again and were discoursing of several things what preparations the City were making how they were provided with Powder and Bullets and for his part he would go down to Oxford for he expected a little sport there upon the divisions that were like to be between the King and Parliament Then said I to him why what is the matter there Why said he we expect that the King will seize upon some of the members and we are as ready as he And says he for my part I will be there and be one that shall seize him if he secure any of the members and I believe he did go down says he you know how the City is provided I told him no not so well as he but he told me all was very well After he came up again I met him another time and he told me he went down in expectation of some sport but Old Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jamy and so ran away like to beshit himself Mr. Ser. jeff. Did he say If he had not ran away he would have seized him Mr. Smith He said nothing of that but before he said He would be one of them should seize him if he seized any of the members After this he told me that Fitz-Gerald and he had had a quarrel at the Parliament-door of the House of Lords at Oxford that Fitz-Gerald had called him Rogue and said he Fitz-Gerald made my Nose bleed but before long I hope to see a great deal more Blood shed for the cause After this again when there was a discourse of disarming the City that my Lord Feversham was to come to do it he told me he was well provided and if Feversham or any man nay Rowley himself should attempt any such thing he would be the death of him before any man should seize upon his Arms. Mr. Serj. jeff. Did he discourse any thing to you about Arms to provide your self Mr. Smith Yes he did I had an Armour from him Mr. Ser. jeff. What did he say to you about it Mr. Smith He did desire me to get Arms for I did not know how soon I might make use of them I had an Armour from him upon trial he said it cost him 30 or 40 s. I had it upon trial but it was too big for me so I gave it him back and bought a new one Mr. Attorn Gen. Did he tell you to what purpose you should arm your self Mr. Smith No he did not name any purpose but he told me I did not know how soon I might make use of it Mr. Att. Gen. What did he say to you about any one's seizing the King Mr. Smith He told me the Parliament were agreed to secure the King and that in order to it all Parliament-men came very well armed and accompanied with arms and men and he told me of a great man that had notice from all the Gentlemen of England how well they came armed Mr. jones What did he say of himself Mr. Smith He would be one that should secure the King if he seized any of the members Mr. jones When he had been there what did he say Mr. Smith If they had had any work he was ready provided for them Mr. Att. Gen. But pray tell us again what he said of the Kings running away Mr. Smith He said Rowley was afraid like his Grand-father Jumy and ran away ready to beshit himself L. c. j. If you have done with him Mr. Attorney let the Prisoner ask him what Questions he will Colledge Mr. Smith Where was this discourse I had with you Mr. Smith Which do you mean the former part or the latter Colledge The first discourse you talk of what I told you going to Mr. Wilcox's to dinner and when it was Mr. Smith You know best when it was I can't exactly remember the time but you know 't is true Colledge Where was it Mr. Smith As we went along thither we had the first part of it and when we came thither you and I talked till Alderman Wilcox came in and you and I were alone together and several persons that were there were drawn into Cabals two by two Colledge Where Mr. Smith In the room where we dined and you know there was a little room by where some were drinking a Glass of Wine Coll. You say by two and two the company were drawn into Cabals Mr. Smith I tell you most of them were in Cabals two and two together only those two Gentlemen that belonged to the Alderman went up and down and gave Wine Coll. What Religion are you of Mr. Smith Is it for this man to ask me my Lord such a question Lo. ch just Yes answer him Mr. Smith I am a Protestant Coll. You were a Priest Mr. Smith Yes what then and I am in Orders now Colledge That was from the Church of Rome Mr. Smith Yes and that is a good Ordination I came in voluntarily to discover the Popish Plot and was no Pentioner nor received any Sallary from the King I have spent several pounds several scores of pounds but received no recompence And I was the Darling at one time all over the City when I did adhere to what they would have me to do Mr. Ser. jeff. Did not you swear against my Lord Stafford Mr. Att. Gen. Were not you a Witness Mr. Smith at my Lord Stafford's Tryal Mr. Smith In that case I did give a general account of the design of the Papists they did not then question my Reputation and I defie all the World to say any thing against it Colledge Pray hear me Sir if you please the first discourse that you speak of about Mr. Wilcox's being a good man for the Cause and contributing mony this was when we were at Dinner Mr. Smith This was that day when we went to dinner with him you know it very well Coll. Where were the other Discourses I had with you Mr. Smith Which part of them Colledge When I came from Oxford Mr. Smith By the Ditch side by your own House I have
see Mr. Colledge do that was in the coffee-house not the same day but another time I saw him bring in a parcel of blue Ribband which was wrought and these words eight times wrought in it twice wrought in every quarter of a yard No Popery no Slavery I saw him â—â—â—l to a member of Parliament as I took him to be a yard of that Ribband for 2 s. and truly I was thinking he would ask me to but some too and I saw that Gentleman I took him to be a Parliament-man take this Ribband and tye it upon his Sword As to the other thing I have to say of Mr. Colledge that very day the Parliament was dissolved he had been in a quarrel as he told me with Fitz-Gerald and I was standing in the School-House yard and he comes directly to me without my speaking to him or any thing but he comes and tells me Fitz-Gerald had spit in his face and said he I spit in his face again so we went to loggerheads together I think that was the word or Fisty-cuffs So said I Mr. Colledge your Nose bleeds he takes his Handkerchief out of his Pocket and wipes his Nose and said I have lost the first Blood in the Cause but it will not be long before more be lost L. c. j. Where was this Sir William Jennings In the School-house Yard at Oxon. I never discoursed with him afterwards till I met him in London in Fleet-street one Sunday in the afternoon and I remember Captain Crescett was along with me And when he came up to me How now said I honest Joyner Says he you call me honest Joyner some call me Rogue and Rascal and I have been beating some of them so that I believe they will be aware of it So I told Captain Crescett I never met this man but he was always in a Quarrel Colledge Was it on a Sunday that I told you I had been beating of somebody Sir Will. jenn. You told me so Captain Crescett was by Colledge I remember I met you but I did not tell you I had been then beating any one But pray Sir William when I met you after the Parliament was Dissolved and Fitz-Gerald and I had quarrell'd did I say That I had lost the first blood in the Cause but it would not be long e're more were lost Sir William you are a Gentleman as for the other men they don't care what they say nor do I so much regard them but you value your Word and Honour These were my words and pray will you recollect your self before you be positive in the thing whether I did not say I have lost the first blood for the Parliament for it was upon my vindicating of the Commons and Dr. Oates whom Fitz-Gerald had abused and upon that the Quarrel began so I said when you met me and told me my Nose bled I have lost the first blood for the Parliament I wish it may be the last Sir Will. jenn. Mr. Colledge If you please I will answer you as to that I do assure you 't is the first time that ever I came upon this occasion in my days and I have declared it before and do declare it now I would rather have served the King in three Engagements then come in against you or any man upon such an occasion But I declare to you upon the whole memory of the truth the words were as I spoke them at first and no Parliament named or mentioned And my Lord moreover I will tell you when I did tell this story because Mr. Crescett that is here is able to tell you whether I did not relate the words within half an hour or a little time after Now I never had a prejudice against you in my days nor other concern but having told Mr. Justice VVarcupp this story I am brought hither to testifie it Coll. Sir William I am sorry you did not better observe and remember my words then Sir VVill. jenn. I must needs say I could not imagine what the words meant when they were spoken nor do I understand them to this day but soon after they were spoken I related them to Justice VVarcupp he being a Justice of Peace Mr. Ser. Holloway Gentlemen we shall rest here and conclude our Evidence for the King at present to hear what the Prisoner says to it only with my Lords leave I shall explain the words to you that are in the Indictment and tell you what is meant by compassing and imagining the death of the King The seizing the person of the King is in Law a compassing and intending his death and so it hath been adjudged in several cases as in 1 Jacob my Lord Cobham and my Lord Grey's case and several other cases and so you may fully apprehend what the Charge is and may understand the words in the Indictment That if you are not satisfied with the general words of compassing the Kings death you may know that the seizing his person extends to it Mr. Ser. jeff. My Lord we have done with our Evidence now let him go on with his L. ch just Now Mr. Colledge you may say what you will for your defence and call your Witnesses that you have to produce Colledge My Lord I have heard this Evidence that is against me and I would desire your Lordship to resolve me some Questions upon it I think the Indictment is for Treasonable practices for a Conspiracy now I desire your Lordship will be pleased that I may know from you and the Court whether in all this Evidence given in proof against me a Conspiracy is proved or if any thing appears besides what they say I said L. c. j. For a conspiracy in you if the Witnesses speak truth there is a plain proof and of the degrees of it First of all by your publishing Libels and Pictures to make the King odious and contemptible in the eyes of the people and that you should be the Author of some of those Pictures and they were found in your custody Colledge I conceive that is not proved Lo. ch just If the Witnesses say true it is proved Colledge They do not produce that they do but say it Lo. ch just Mr. Dugdale swears that at Oxford here you shew'd him the Picture you sung the Song here and expounded it at my Lord Lovelace's and a great many of them are found in your custody Then that you prepared Arms that you shew'd Smith the Arms in your House and having those Arms you said you would go to Oxford and if there should be a disturbance there you would secure the King And you did come to Oxford where you hear what is said for I observe Stephen Dugdale and Edward Turbervile speak of what was done at Oxford John Smith and Bryan Haynes speak of what you said at London before you went to Oxford and after you came from Oxford Now I say if these Witnesses speak true 't is a strong Evidence against you both upon the
be two Witnesses to the same words at the same time Mr. just Jones No it was the Resolution of all the Judges in the case of my Lord Stafford in the presence of the Parliament and the Parliament proceeded upon it M. Ser. Jeff. In the same Tryal where Mr. Colledge was a Witness Mr. Att. Gen. All the whole House of Commons prayed Judgement upon my Lord Stafford pursuant to that Resolution L. c. j. Come will you call any Witnesses Coll. My Lord I do not question but to prove this one of the Hellishest Conspiracies that ever was upon the face of the Earth and these the most notorious wicked men an absolute design to destroy all the Protestants of England that have had the courage to oppose the Popish Plot. In which no man of my condition hath done more then I have done I was bred a Protestant and continued so hitherto and by the Grace of God I will dye so If that they had known of these words that I should speak and such a design that I should have before the Parliament sat at Oxon. and be with me in Oxon. when the Parliament sat if they had been good Subjects they ought to have had me apprehended Turbervile came several times indeed and dined with me I did not bid him go out of doors nor invited him thither he was a man I had no disrespect for nay he was a man I valued thinking he had done the Nation service against the Papists that this man should hear me speak such words against His Majesty who was then in this Town and know of such a dangerous design to attempt the seizing of his Person or that I should discover a great party that were ready to do it I think there is scarce any man of reason but will say if this were really done and spoken by me neither of them would or ought to have concealed it but discover it none of them has ever charged me with any such thing they have been in my company since I never had any correspondence with any of them but Dugdale then pray consider how improbable it is that I should talk of such things to Papists Priests and Irish-men who have broke their faith with their own party that faith which they gave under the penalty of Damnation men that have been concerned in Plots and Treasons to murder and cut the Throats of Protestants that I should be such a mad man to trust these people when I could receive no manner of obligation from them nor could give any trust to them they having before broke either Faith especially considering I could lay no such Oaths and Obligations upon them who was a Protestant then 't is the greatest non sense to believe that I would say these things before persons whom I could never hope would conceal my Treasons having discovered their own If they speak truth concerning the general Popish Plot that could be no obligation upon me to trust them with another and they cannot say that they ever obliged me in any one respect My Lord I thank God I have had some acquaintance in the world and have been concerned with some persons of Honour Noblemen and Parliament men that I know are as good Subjects as any His Majesty has these never found me a Fool nor a Rascal so great a Knave as to have any such thoughts in my heart nor so great a mad-man or so foolish as to go to discover them to Papists Priests and Irish-men to men of their condition that were ready to starve for Bread As for Haynes and Smith that run so fast through all their Evidence the first time that ever I set my eyes on Haynes was in the Coffee-House that he speaks of Macnamarra comes in and desires me to go out with with him and I should hear the greatest Discovery of a piece of Villany against my Lord of Shaftsbury's Life that ever I heard many life This Captain Brown who is now dead a man that I had not known but a month before for I think it was in March last when this was could testifie for me For I came to him Captain said I here is a Discovery offered to be made to me of a Design to take away my Lord Shaftsbury's Life Macnamarra asks me to go to the Hercules Pillars I went along with him and took Captain Brown with us Afterwards he fell sick in April and is now dead so I lost a main Evidence in the case He was the only man that was by at the time God knows my Heart I speak nothing but the truth I took him with me Haynes began to discover to us that Fitz-Gerald had employed him to fetch over Macnamarra and if he would come in and swear against my Lord of Shaftsbury which was his design it would not be long e're his Head were taken off and he said He had given in a Paper of High Treason against my Lord of Shaftsbury I asked what it was He told me That my Lord should tell Fitz-Gerald that he had a design to bring this Kingdom to a Common Wealth and to root out the Family of the Stuarts This he said Fitz-Gerald had given in in a Paper under his own Hand and I think he said He had sworn it and sent Haynes to fetch Macnamarra to swear agaist my Lord the same things too I writ down all the Heads of the Discourse which Captain Brown heard as well as I. After he had said it he desired us to conceal it Sir said I You are a stranger to me and these are great and strange things that you do tell us Macnamarra and Browne and Ivy and others were there which if they were honest men they would come and testifie I thought them honest men and that they had none of those wicked designs in their Hearts that now I find they have So says Haynes I do not know this man meaning me Macnamarra told him I was an honest man he might lay his Life in my hands After he had spoken all this he desired us to conceal it Said he I will not only discover this but a great deal more of their Rogueries that I know very well Said I to him again I will not conceal it nor do you no wrong for if this be true my Lord of Shaftsbury shall know it to night for where there is a Design to take away a Peer of the Realm I will not conceal it but if it be false and you have said more then comes to your share recant it again and we will take no notice of it only say you are a Knave for speaking of it he swore Dam him it was all true that and a great deal more which he said he knew about seizing and destroying the Parliament at Oxon. about an Army in the North that was to be raised about the time of the sitting of the Parliament at Oxon. of a French Army that was to land in Ireland at the same time that the
D. of York was to be at the Head of them and the intention was to destroy all the Protestants Upon this I was resolved if I lived to come along with the Parliament and if there was any such Design I was resolved to live and die with them but I had no more then common Arms a Sword and a case of Pistols and my Cap was a Velvet Cap and nothing else My Lord I had the Honour to be sent for when the Parliament sat last at Westminster the Sessions in October it was an Honourable occasion and I thank those worthy Gentlemen that sent me for the Honour of it there I begun to be popular as to my Name for from that time they began to call me the Protestant Joyner because the Parliament had intrusted me My Lord Grey was pleased to send his Footman for me to the Crown Tavern behind the Exchange where there were several worthy Lords Peers of the Realm and one Hundred of the Commons that had dined there that day it was the day before they sat after they had dined I came to them and the Duke of Monmouth told me They had heard a good Report of me that I was an honest man that understood Building and they did confide in me to search under the Parliament House they did not really know of any Design but they would not be secure there might be some tricks play'd them by the Papists tho' we are not afraid of them said the Duke yet we think fit to employ you to search under the Houses whether you can find any such practices So accordingly my Lord I did go my Lord Lovelace was one of the Honourable Lords and my Lord Herbert that went with me and some of the Gentlemen of the House of Commons and those worthy Protestant Lords were pleased to thank me for my Service and did believe I was active and zealous to find out and discover the bottom of the Popish Plot so far as it came legally in my way to do it My Lord upon this occasion there was a great kindness from them to me and I had upon all occasions testimonies of it and this very man who now swears Treasons against me which God Almighty knows is all false did swear in his Affidavit before Sir George Treby the Recorder of London I did never see the Affidavit indeed I was over night at Sir George Treby's but he was not then at leisure but he drew it up next day and swore it that there was a Design to destroy the Parliament at Oxon. and there was not only his Oath for it but it was the general belief that some Evil was intended them All men had cause to fear and to suspect the Papists did bear them no good will and making use of their own observations they were generally armed with a Pistol or a Sword for themselves in case they should be attck'd by the Papists In order to this I did come down with my Lord Howard my Lord of Clare my Lord of Huntington and my Lord Pagett those four worthy Protestant Lords and it was two days after the Parliament was sat that we came and I went out of Town again with my Lord Lovelace Sir Thomas Player and Sir Robert Clayton and I am sure they were all in so great a fear that London should be surprized and seized on by the Papists but there was no mortal man that ever heard of the Kings being seized or thought of it till these men come and tell me that I had such a Design and came hither with that purpose but my Lord I declare as God is my Judge I would not have it thought I speak it to save my life were it as certainly a truth as 't is most wickedly a falshood that I had had a design to seize the King I know not of one man who was to stand by me Parliament man or other persons whatsoever And how is it possible for me to attempt that being a single person with only a Sword and a case of Pistols let any man judge And I do declare I know of no conspiracy nor Design against the King or Government I never spoke one of the Treasonable Words in my life that is laid against me nor had ever any thoughts of any such thing God that is my Eternal Judge knows that what I speak is true L. c. just Well Mr. Colledge will you call your Witnesses for I must tell the Jury as I did at your request concerning Mr. Attorney that as nothing he said so nothing you say is to be believed upon your own Allegation for then no man would ever be guilty if his own Purgation by words were to be believed Coll. My Lord I thank God I know my own innocency and hope to prove it I have a Soul that must live to eternity either in joy or misery I act according to those principles and I hope I have some assurance of my own Salvation when I dye I would not call God to Witness to a lye to save 1000 lives My Lord this is a villanous conspiracy against me and if it take place against me it may go a great way God knows how far This is the 17th or 18th Sham Plot the Papists have made against the Protestants to get over their own but I hope my Lord God Almighty will never suffer it If they can make me a Traytor they will try it upon others and so hope to sham off their own Treasons but I say I hope God Almighty will never suffer it My Lord I think the first Witness that swore against me was Mr. Dugdale and I must call my Witnesses as I have them here I know no person of them hardly and this tht is done for my Defence was done abroad My Lord I have been kept close Prisoner in the Tower and none of them suffered to come to me whilst the Popish Lords have had the liberty and priviledge to talk with their friends Here are VVitnesses I hope will prove that those are Suborned men for Macnamarra did tell me presently after the Parliament broke up at Oxon. and whispered it to me in the Coffee-House Said he there is a design laid to make us retract our Evidence and go over to Fitz-Gerald Said I I suppose they have been at that sport a great while Ah said he they make large offers Said I by whom Said he Colonel Warcupp hath been at me and he tells me Mr. just jones Macnamarra is not produced against you as a Witness at all Coll. No but he told me this that there was such a design and said he I will get you and some other honest men and he desired me to be by when he had something more to tell which would do his business for him but the next news I heard of him was he was put into Newgate Lo. ch just Call your Witnesses Mr. Colledge and prove what you can Coll. Call Mr. Hickman Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I desire
a good Estate But said he it shall be the Kings e're long Coll. So that here is a plain design against all the eminent Protestants Mr. Lun So with that my Lord if it please your Honour I clapped my Groat down at the Bar and went out of the Room Nay said he let us have one Health more and so he had his Tankard and I had mine Haynes I humbly desire you to call for Mr. White the Kings Messenger who was by I never saw the man before he was at Uxbridge and asking Mr. White who he was said he His name is Lun he was my prisoner two years L. c. just What say you to the discourse he talks of at Fleet-bridge Haynes My Lord I am upon my Oath and I never saw him in my life before I saw him at Uxbridge Mr. Lun I will take the Sacrament upon it that what I have averred is true Mr. Ser. Jeff. I suppose you are both known and then your Credit will be left to the Jury Mr. Att. Gen. There is Mr. White pray swear him which was done Lo. ch just Do you remember that Haynes asked who Mr. Lun was Mr. White It was at the Bar of the Crown Inn at Uxbridge and I being there Mr. Lun came into the yard and I knowing Mr. Lun asked him How he did He said he was glad to see me and he called for a pint of Sack to make me drink Haynes stood by and he asked who he was and I told him and we drank the Kings Health but for any thing of those words that were spoken there Sir I did hear not one word of them but he thanked me for my civility when I summoned him up to Court and seeing Mr. Haynes by he asked who he was Mr. Ser. Jeff. And you take it upon your Oath that he asked you who Haynes was Mr. White Yes I do Mr. Serj. jeff. Pray did you hear any discourse that time as if there had been a meeting upon Fleet-bridge Mr. White Not one word of that Mr. Lun I will take the Sacrament upon it what I say is true M. Ser. Jeff. We know you Mr. Lun we only ask questions about you that the Jury may know you too as well as we We remember what once you swore about an Army Colledge I don't know him Mr. Lun I don't come here to give Evidence of any thing but the truth I was never upon my knees before the Parliament for any thing Mr. Serj. Jeff. Nor I neither for much but yet once you were when you cryed Scatter them good Lord. Colledge Call Mr. Broadgate L. ch Just What is your Christian Name Sir Mr. Broadg. Jeremiah Lo. ch just What do you ask him Mr. Broadg. My Lord I am a stranger to the Prisoner at the Bar what I have to say is concerning Mr. Turbervile whom I met one day and he asked me how I did said he I owe you a little Money but I will pay you in a short time but if you will go to drink a glass of Ale no said I I am in haste and do not care for going to drink said he you shall go so away we went and when we were sat said he When did you see Turbervile that was my Lord Powis's Butler said he he was a great Rogue to me and when I stood up for the Nations good he vilified my Evidence and afterwards he came to me with Doctor _____ to beg my pardon but I would not forgive him for the whole World And speaking of the Kings Evidence said he the Kings Evidence are looked upon as nothing as poor inconsiderable mean Fellows and their Sallaries are lessened and said he I have had the greatest proffers from Court of preferment and rewards if I would go from what I have said and come upon the contrary and he repeated it Yes upon the Faith of a man and from the Highest But said he I have a Soul and a Body a Body for a time but my Soul for eternity and I cannot go from it He went over it again I might have what I would if I would go from what I have said and come upon the contrary Mr. Att. Gen. But he does not go from any thing of what he hath said Coll. Did he say what he was offered and by whom Mr. Broadg. He said he had very great offers from the Court if he would disown the Plot and go upon the contrary Lo. Ch. Just But he does not disown it Mr. just jones Nay he had a Soul to save and could not go from it Mr. Ser. jeff. You talk of the contrary and the contrary what did he mean by that what Plot should he disown Mr. Broadg. The Popish Plot. L. c. j. He does not disown it nor never did disown it Coll. He would have made a Presbyterian Plot of it now for he cannot say I am in the Popish Plot. Sir do you know any thing more of him or did he name me or that he was to swear against me or any Protestant Mr. Broadg. No only he said the Kings Evidence were vilified and looked upon as poor inconsiderable Fellows But it seemed if he would go on the other side he might have great preferments and rewards L. c. j. You make a wrong comment upon it Mr. Colledge it was if he would retract his Evidence and disown the Plot. Coll. I leave it to your Lordship and the Jury to make the sense of it Mr. Broadg. I saw Mr. Turbervile since I come hither and he asked Are you come Mr. Broadgate to give Evidence against me says I I am come to declare the truth and nothing but the truth Mr. Ser. jeff. You might have staid at home for any thing material that you do Evidence Colledge Call Mr. Zeal who appeared L. ch just What is your Christian Name Sir Mr. Zeal John L. c. j. What would you ask him Mr. Ser. Holloway Where do you dwell Sir Mr. Zeal In London Mr. Ser. jeff. Whereabouts Mr. Zeal In Fetter-Lane Mr. Ser. Holl. What Countrey-man are you Sir Mr. Zeal Somersetshire Mr. Att. Gen. Whereabouts in Somersetshire were you born Mr. Zeal By Sir VVilliam Portmans within six miles of him Mr. Ser. Jeff. What Trade Sir Mr. Zeal No Trade Mr. Serj. Jeff. Have you any Estate Mr. Zeal My Father has I was bred to wait upon a person of Quality Colledge Do you know Turbervile Sir Mr. Zeal Yes Sir I do Coll. VVhat do you know of him Mr. Zeal Sir I know nothing but what Mr. Ivy told me with his own mouth L. c. j. Do you know any thing of your own knowledge Mr. Att. Gen. Has Mr. Turbervile told you any thing Mr. Zeal Not concerning Mr. Colledge he has not Coll. Ivy was amongst them Mr. Zeal Yes my Lord he was the first that swore this Presbyterian Plot. Coll. Can you say nothing of your own knowledge concerning Turbervile Mr. Zeal Nothing but what Mr. Ivy told me Mr. Ser. Jeff. That is not of your own
knowledge and so it is nothing for he is not produced in this cause Coll. Pray my Lord give me leave to call Mr. Ivy. Mr. Ser. Jeff. Do if you will He stood up Coll. VVhat was that you heard Turbervile say of me or of any Presbyterian Plot Ivy. I never heard him say any thing concerning a Presbyterian Plot in my life Colledge Did not you tell Zeal of such a thing Ivy. No I never did Coll. Heark you Mr. Ivy you have sworn against me have you not Ivy. What I have sworn against you or against any other person is true Coll. VVhat have you sworn against me Ivy. I am not bound to answer you Coll. Did not you call me out with Macnamarra and Haynes to the Hercules-Pillars L. c. j. Look you Mr. Colledge I will tell you something for Law and to set you right whatsoever Witnesses you call you call them as Witnesses to testifie the truth for you and if you ask them any questions you must take what they have said as truth therefore you must not think to ask him any question and afterwards call another Witness to disprove your own Witness Coll. I ask him was he the first time with us when I was called out of the Coffee-house to hear Haynes's Discovery L. c. j. Let him answer you if he will but you must not afterwards go to disprove him Coll. If he were sworn against me I would not ask him any questions for he is among them Lo. Ch. Just Ask him what you will Coll. I desire not if he have sworn against me for truly I can't expect a good Answer from him but he was by when Haynes made his discovery L. c. j. Will you ask him any questions Coll. I ask whether he hath given any Evidence against me any where Ivy. I am not bound to answer you L. c. j. Tell him if you have Ivy. Yes my Lord I have Colledge Then I think he is no good Witness for me when he hath sworn against me Ivy. I have sworn against him and others You know that you and I have had a great many Intrigues about this business in hand and how we dealt with Mr. Haynes L. c. j. Look you he does not call you for a Witness for him you can testifie nothing and so you must be quiet Coll. Call Mr. Lewes Who appeared L. c. j. What is your Christian Name Mr. Lewes William Coll. Pray Mr. Lewes what do you know about Turbervile Mr. Lewes I know nothing at all I assure you of him that is ill Colledge Do you know any thing concerning any of the Evidence that hath been given here Mr. Lewes If I knew any thing relating to you I would declare it but I know something of Mr. Ivy it has no relation to you as I conceive but against my Lord of Shaftsbury Lo. c. j. You would call Ivy for a Witness and now you call one against him and that I told you you must not do but Ivy is not at all in this case Coll. Do you know any thing of the rest of them Haynes or Smith or Dugdale Mr. Lewes No more than what Mr. Zeal told me was told him Coll. Do you know any thing of a Presbyterian Plot Mr. Lewes If the Court please to hear me I will tell my knowledge of that but I know nothing that affects him in the least only that which concerns my Lord of Shaftsbury L. ch just That is nothing to the purpose call another Mr. Lewes There was not to my knowledge a word mentioned of your Name I will do you all the justice I can if I knew any thing concerning you I would be sure to relate it Coll. I cannot say who can or who cannot I am a stranger to all of it Lo. ch Just Well call your next Witness Coll. My Lord There was a Petition presented to the Common Council of London wherein they set out that they were tamper'd withal about a Plot against the Protestants Lo. c. j. A Petition from whom Coll. I cannot tell from whom from some of these witnesses L. c. j. Who preferred and signed it Coll. Mr. Turbervile was one Pray call Dr. Oates L. c. j. The Prisoner calls upon you Mr. Oates What would you ask him Mr. Colledge Coll. VVhere is the Petition to the Common Council Doctor Dr. Oates I have it here in my hand Lo. ch just By whom was it presented Dr. Oates It was given by Mr. Turbervile and Mr. Macnamarra to Mr. VVilmoe Lo. ch just Was you by when it was delivered Dr. Oates Mr. VVilmore did deliver it to me before he was apprehended for being to come down as a Witness he was taken up and committed to prison Lo. ch just Whose hands are to it Dr. Oates I know Mr. Turbervile's hand he will not disown it Clerk Reads It is subscribed Edward Turbervile John Macnamarra L. c. j. Look you Mr. Colledge what word is there in all this Petition that is a contradiction to what they have said now Colledge I did not hear it my Lord. Lo. ch just They say they are constant Witnesses for the King against the Papists and they have been tempted to unsay what they have said How does that contradict what they say now Coll. I suppose they say they have been tempted to turn the Plot upon other people and to make a Plot upon the Protestants L. c. j. They have been tempted they say by the Papists to unsay what they have said but the Jury have heard it read and will give it its due weight Will you ask Mr. Oates any questions Colledge What do you know of Mr. Turbervile Dr. Oates As to Turbervile my Lord a little before the Witnesses were sworn at the Old-Bailey I met with Mr. Tubervile I was in a Coach but seeing Mr. Turbervile I stept out of the Coach and spoke with him for hearing that he was a Witness I did ask him whether he was a Witness or no against Colledge Mr. Turbervile said He would break any one's Head that should say so against him for he neither was a Witness nor could give any Evidence against him So after he came from Oxon. I met with Mr. Turbervile again and hearing he had been there I asked him if he had sworn any thing against Colledge He said yes he had been sworn before the Grand Jury Said I did not you tell me so and so Why said he the Protestant Citizens have deserted us and God dam him he would not starve Lo. c. j. Would he say so to you Dr. Oates Yes my Lord He said those very words Mr. Serj. jeff. 'T is Mr. Oates saying 't is Mr. Turbervile's Oath Dr. Oates Several times he did repeat it but when I asked him what he had sworn He said I am not bound to satisfie peoples curiosities L. c. j. What say you to it Mr. Turbervile Mr. Turbervile My Lord the first part of the Doctor 's discourse in part is true I met him just at my Lodgings
and the Doctor alighted out of his Coach and spoke to me and invited me to come to my old Friends for he told me they had some jeajousie that I was not true to them and he told me if I would come to the King's-Head Club I should be received with a great deal of kindness and never afterwards did I speak with the Doctor a tittle about any Evidence L. ch Just He says you said you would break any one's Head that said you were an Evidence against Colledge for you were not nor could be Mr. Turbervile There was no such thing said by me Mr. Att. Gen. Upon your Oath did you tell him so Mr. Turberv Upon my Oath I did not Mr. Serj. jeff. Did you tell him that other passage when you swore you would not starve Mr. Turbervile No I did not Dr. Oates Upon the word of a Priest what I say is true My Lord I do say as I am a Minister I speak it sincerely in the presence of God this Gentleman did say these words to me which made me afraid of the man and I went my ways and never spake with him afterwards nor durst I for I thought he that would swear and curse after that rate was not fit to be talked with L. c. j. 'T is very improbable that he should say so to you Mr. Turbervile I always looked upon Dr. Oates as a very ill man and never would converse much with him L. c. j. Will you ask him any thing more Coll. Do you know any thing of the rest Doctor Dr. Oates I know nothing of Turbervile further but that he did present this Petition wherein he says he lay under great temptations to go on the other side and accuse some Protestants And truly till I heard he was an Evidence at Oxon. after what he had said to me I did not believe it Mr. Att. Gen. Doctor Oates Mr. Turbervile hath not changed Sides you have he is still an Evidence for the King you are against him Dr. Oates Mr. Attorney I am a Witness for truth against falshood and subornation and it can plainly be made to appear there is subornation against the Protestants And moreover my Lord L. c. j. Mr. Oates you would do well to explain your self Mr. Serj. Jeff. If there be any subornation relating to Mr. Turbervile or any of the other Witnesses that have now sworn against Colledge make it out Doctor Dr. Oates There is my Lord and there will be made further to appear in time to come To my own knowledge as to Mr. Smith Mr. Colledge and Mr. Smith had some provoking words passed betwixt them at Richard's Coffee-House and Mr. Smith comes out and swears God dam him he would have Colledge 's blood So my Lord when I met him said I Mr. Smith you profess your self to be a Priest and have stood at the Altar and now you intend to take upon you the Ministry of the Church of England and these words do not become a Minister of the Gospel his reply was God dam the Gospel this is truth I speak it in the presence of God and man L. c. j. Can you say any thing of any of the other Witnesses Dr. Oates As for Mr. Dugdale I was ingaged for him for 50 l. for last Lent Assizes he wanted money to go down to the Assizes having paid some debts and paid away all his money and so I engaged for 50 l. that he borrowed of Richard the Coffee-man After he came from Oxon. I called upon him to hasten to get his money of the Lords in the Treasury which as near as I remember was ordered him upon his Petition for so I heard And at that time said he Sir I hear there is a great noise of my being an Evidence against whom said I against several Protestants my Lord Shaftsbury and others said I I never heard any thing of it says he there is no body hath any cause to make any such report of me for I call God to witness I know nothing against any Protestant in England After that I met with Dugdale at Richard's Coffee-house and pressing him for the money and he saying he had it not just then but would pay it in a little time Mr. Dugdale said I you have gone I am afraid against your conscience I am sure against what you have declared to me said he it was all long of Colonel Warcupp for I could get no money else Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Oates is a thorough-pac'd Witness against all the King's Evidence Mr. Ser. Jeff. And yet Dr. Oates had been alone in some matters had it not been for some of these Witnesses Dr. Oates I had been alone perhaps and perhaps not but yet Mr. Serjeant I had always a better Reputation than to need theirs to strengthen it Mr. Ser. jeff. Does any man speak of your Reputation I know no body does meddle with it but you are so tender Colledge Sir George Now a man is upon his life I think you do not do well to affront his Witnesses Mr. Serj. jeff. I do not affront him but now my Lord pray give us leave to call our Witnesses Mr. Smith pray stand up L. c. j. Mr. Smith do you hear what Mr. Oates hath said Mr. Smith No my Lord. L. c. j. Then speak it again Mr. Oates Dr. Oates Yes my Lord I will speak it to his face He said coming out of Richard's Coffee-house they having had some provoking words as I understood when I come in God dam that Colledge I will have his blood and my Lord when I did reprove him and said to him Mr. Smith you have been a Priest and stood at the Altar and intend to be a Minister of the Church of England these words do not become a Minister of the Gospel and he replied God dam the Gospel and away he went L. ch just What say you to it Mr. Smith Mr. Smith Not one word of this is true upon my Oath 'T is a wonderful thing you should say this of me but I will sufficiently prove it against you that you have confounded the Gospel and denied the Divinity too Mr. Serj. jeff. Mr. Dugdale you heard what was said against you Dr. Oates My Lord now Dugdale is come I will tell you something more There was a Report given out by Mr. Dugdale's means that Mr. Dugdale was poysoned and in truth my Lord it was but the Pox. And this Sham passed throughout the Kingdom in our Intelligencies and this I will make appear by the Physician that cured him Mr. Ser. Jeff. That is but by a third Hand Dr. Oates He did confess that he had an old Clap and yet he gave out he was poysened but now my Lord as to what I said before of him I was engaged for 50 l. for Mr. Dugdale do you own that Mr. Dugdale I do own it Dr. Oates I did press upon you to hasten the payment of it Mr. Dugdale Yes you did Dr. Oates And did not you come
to me and tell me there was a noise of your being an Evidence it was in time just before my Lord Shaftsbury was taken up Mr. Dugdale I never spoke to you till you spake to me Dr. Oates My Lord He came and said to me There is a noise of my being an Evidence now I had not heard it then but the day after I did hear it and I did justifie Mr. Dugdale because he had said to me that he had nothing against any Protestant in England So I did stand up in vindication of him but my Lord after he had sworn at the Old Baily I met him again and pressed him for the money and urged him with it why he had sworn against Colledge when he had told me so and so before and he said it was all long of Colonel Warcup for he could not get his money else and Colonel Warcup did promise he should have a place at the Custom-House Mr. Dugdale Upon the Oath I have taken and as I hope for Salvation it is not true Mr. Serj. Jeff. Here is Dugdale's Oath against Dr. Oats's saying Dr. Oates Mr. Serjeant you shall hear of this in another place Mr. Att. Gen. 'T is an unhappy thing that Dr. Oates should come in against these men that supported his Evidence before Mr. Dugd. My Lord I say further if any Doctor will come forth and say he cured me of a Clap or any such thing I will stand guilty of all that is imputed to me L. c. j. Mr. Colledge will you call any other Witnesses Coll. My Lord I think this is not fair dealing with a man for his Life because these men be upon their Oaths and deny the things again that my Witnesses prove therefore what they swear must needs be taken for truth but if my Witness comes and says such a thing upon the word of a Minister and in the presence of God and which he is ready to maintain by an Oath sure it is not to stand for nothing nor he to be hooted out of Court because Mr. Dugdale denies it upon his Oath I do suppose he will not acknowledge it But my Lord I am the Prisoner and cannot be heard as a Witness for my self but God is my Witness he hath said a great deal more to me formerly and he hath told me when I have seen him with Warcup and asked him why he kept company with Warcup and others said he I know they are suspected men but I must keep company with them to get my money what would you have me do starve And when I lent him money out of my pocket and trusted him with my Horse I dunn'd him for money and could not get it said I will you pay me the 5 l. I lent you he put me off said he I shall have it for the Attorney General hath made up his Accompts and he is very kind to me why then said I why have you it not said he he is my Friend and I do not question the getting of it but here is new work to be done such work as my conscience will not serve me to do there is more Roguery they will never have done plotting and counterplotting but they will make a thousand Plots if they can to destroy the real one L. c. j. Can you prove this now Coll. No it was spoken to my self and no body was by but my self L. c. j. Then you should not speak it But you asked the question whether a man may not be believed upon his word as well as he that is upon his Oath Your Witnesses are not upon their Oaths but they may be Witnesses and their weight is to be left with the Jury they will consider how improbable it is that these men should come three men to one man and all of them should speak that which would make themselves Rogues and Villains and that one man of them Smith should say such words as God damn him he would have his blood and God damn the Gospel that Dugdale should confess he was wrought upon by Warcup to testifie against his Conscience and that Turbervile should say to that purpose He would not starve they have sworn the contrary and so there are all these three mens Oaths against one mans Affirmation but it must be left to the Jury Coll. There is his Affirmation against what they three say He charges every one of them and 't is but the single denial of every one of them to his Charge L. c. j. 'T is improbable they should own themselves such Villains to him Dr. Oates They must be so if they will do what they have undertaken I hope my Word will be believed as soon as their Oaths Coll. It is not to be thought but when they have sworn so against me they will deny any such thing when they are charged with it L. c. j. Have you done with your Witnesses Or will you call any more Coll. What is said upon an honest mans word in the face of a Court is certainly to be believed as well as what is sworn L. c. j. 'T is a Testimony that is most certain and must be left to the Jury they must weigh one against the other But pray Mr. Colledge will you call your Witnesses for it begins to grow late Coll. There is Mr. Wilmore that was a material Witness for me who was Foreman of the Grand Jury that would not find the Bill upon this Evidence What he had to say I don't know but I am informed it was very material for me L. c. j. It will be enough for him to clear himself for he is charged with High Treason and by two Witnesses too Colledge Call Alexander Blake Lo. ch just What do you ask him Colledge Do you know John Smith Mr. Blake Yes Sir Coll. Pray will you tell the Court what you know of John Smith Mr. Blake I suppose you mean this Gentleman Mr. John Smith Gent. came to me one morning and told me there was one Haynes under Examination and Haynes had discovered very material things against some great persons this passed and within few days after I met Mr. Smith at the Exchange Coffee-House and having saluted him I desired him to drink a glass of Wine and so we went to the Sun Tavern and when we were there I asked him what his sense was of Haynes and his Discovery Said he 't is a Sham Plot I asked him what he meant by that Sham Plot Said he 't is a meal-tub Plot. This is all that I know L. c. j. Would you ask him any thing else Mr. Blake I know nothing more Coll. Do you know any thing of Turbervill or Dugdale Mr. Blake Sir I have no acquaintance with him nor desire it But I was acquainted with this Gent. Mr. Smith I know him very well Mr. Ser. Jeff. You say well stand down Colledge Call Mr. Samuel Smith L. ch just What ask you him Colledge What he knows of Mr. Smith Mr. S. Smith Mr. John
then I was saying methinks it seems an improbable thing that such a man as Colledge should seize upon the King or provide 1500 Barrels of Powder and those other things Upon my word said he with some passion clapping his hand upon his breast when Mr. Colledge did say it I did not believe a word of it and upon my Faith I believe Colledge himself did not believe it when he told me so Colledge Do you know any thing more Sir Mr. Gardner No indeed Mr. Colledge Colledge Call Dr. Oates again L. c. j. Well what say you to him Coll. Pray Dr. Oates Mr. Smith charges me that I should speak some treasonable words that time that Alderman Wilcox gave you a Treat at the Crown-Tavern you were there and pray how long ago was it Dr. Oates My Lord I heard Mr. Smith speaking of it at the Old-Bailey and if you please to take notice it was thus This Summer was twelve-month or I am sure a great while before Christmas the Alderman had invited me several times to give me a Treat and I had not time other business calling me off but finding a time I sent him word I would come and see him He said he was a Brewer and troubled at home with customers but he would give me a Dinner at the Crown Tavern without Temple-Bar that was the place fixed upon there was Mr. Smith the Counsellor who had been serviceable to me in several instances I did get him to go along with me and Mr. Colledge was with us and I heard Smith swearing at the Old Baily that Mr. Colledge and he had discourse from the Rainbow Coffee-House where we met and went together Colledge There I was invited by Alderman Wilcox Dr. Oates But my Lord I will tell my story I am not to tell Mr. Smiths Colledge did tell me he was invited said I You shall be welcome as far as I can make you welcome So Colledge ahd I went together from the Rainbow Coffe-House to the Crown Tavern Now indeed Colledge was very pleasant and merry and as I think the discourse betwixt the Rainbow Coffee-House and the Tavern was betwixt Mr. Colledge and me for Mr. Smith stayed somewhat behind or walked before I cannot tell which When we came to the Crown Tavern we did to divert our selves till Dinner came up enter into a Philosophical discourse with one Mr. Savage who was formerly a Romish Priest but this Savage is since pardoned by the King and is a member of the Church of England and hath been Professor of Divinity and Philosophy beyond Sea This as I remember was the discourse before we dined till we went to dinner it was concerning the Existence of God whether that could be proved by natural demonstration and whether or no the Soul was immortal my Lord after dinner Smith went away I did not hear the least discourse of any such thing as he speaks of and Mr. Smith and Colledge had no discourse in my hearing from the Coffee-House to the Tavern and when we were in the Tavern we did discourse about those two Points Counsellor Smith my Lord will justifie a great deal of this and my Brother too who was with us But when I heard Mr. Smith swear as he did about this matter at the Old Baily I did really my Lord in my conscience look upon him to be forsworn in that particular Mr. Serj. Jeff. And he does swear you are out in this L. c. j. Will you ask him any more questions Dr. Oates If your Lordship please he speaks of Mr. Wilcox to be a man that contributed money to buy Arms Powder and Shot I think Sir George Jefferies knows Alderman Wilcox is a man of another employment Mr. Serj. jeff. Sir George Jefferies does not intend to be an Evidence I assure you L. ch Just Do you ask him any more questions Dr. Oates I do not desire Sir George Jefferies to be an Evidence for me I had Credit in Parliaments and Sir George had Disgrace in one of them Mr. Serj. jeff. Your Servant Doctor you are a witty man and a Philosopher Colledge Call Mr. Thomas Smith L. c. j. What would you ask of him now Coll. Counsellor Smith here is John Smith or Narrative Smith which you please to call him hath charged me with speaking Treason at our going to dinner at Mr. Wilcox's I remember you were there and I think you and I and Dr. Oates and his Brother and Mr. Godwin Wharton went together I did tell Mr. Smith of it but I did not stir a step out of the Coffee-house with him but went away before him How long ago is it since we had that Dinner Mr. T. Smith My Lord if your Lordship please I do very well remember Mr. Alderman VVilcox so they called him did desire to give Dr. Oates a Treat with some other of his Friends at the Crown-Tavern without Temple-Bar but really my Lord as to the certain time I do not remember it but to my best remembrance my Lord it was before Christmass last and some time before Christmass last And my Lord I was there all the time Mr. Smith was at that time somewhat a stranger to me something I had heard of his name and I did stay there all the while I remember Mr. Alderman VVilcox was to go out of Town that day and truly as to any thing of matter of Treason or Treasonable words or any thing tending towards it I am confident nothing was or could be spoken and the room was a very small room and our company did fill it up and the Table was so big that there was little more than for the Servitors to go about so that any man might easily hear from the one end of the room to the other I remember there was some discourse betwixt Dr. Oates and Mr. Savage who I think hath been a Jesuit and it was about some points of Philosophy and Divinity but for Treason I do not remember the least of it and I am confident Colledge said not any such thing at that time and my reason is this I very well remember Mr. Colledge did set himself down upon one side of the Table and fell asleep and unless he talked Treason in his sleep there could not be any such thing said and if it had been said it would have been heard Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Smith did you never hear Mr. Colledge speak any ill words of the King Mr. T. Smith Never in my life And if I were now to take the Sacrament upon it I could say so Mr. Ser. jeff. You used to converse with him Mr. Smith did he never say any thing like it to you Mr. T. Smith Good Mr. Serjeant you know I can take the Sacrament pray let us have no reflections Mr. Serj. jeff. Who did reflect upon you I did not reflect upon you Mr. just jones Mr. Smith did he never deliver you any of those Pictures Mr. T. Smith No Sir he never did Coll. Good Sir George don't
week Mr. Att. Gen. Was it on Saturday last Mr. Bolron It was the beginning of the week Mr. Serj. Jeff. Thou art such a Discoverer Mr. Bolron My Lord 't is very true what I say If I had known any such thing I would have discovered it Mr. Serj. jeff. Thou wouldest have discovered it before that time of my conscience Colledge My Lord he hath been an Evidence against the Papists as well as Mr. Smith and therefore pray Sir George don't make your flourishes upon him Mr. Serj. Jeffer He was an Evidence but he had the misfortune never to be believed Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know any thing of any Pictures of Mr. Colledges making Have you seen Raree Shew Mr. Bolron Never in my life Mr. Att. Gen. Did you not shew it in Oxford Mr. Bolron No never in my life Mr. Serj. Holloway Did you never declare to any Gentleman of Oxford that Colledge made this Picture Mr. Bolron I have seen the Character of a Popish Successor but I never saw Raree Shew Mr. Serj. Hollow Here is the very Gentleman my Lord that will make Oath of it Mr. Bolron He was supposed to make them I did not know that he did Mr. Ser. Jeff. I do only desire one thing I do not say that you ever had Raree Shew but did you ever tell any body that Colledge made any of these Pictures Mr. Bolron I have heard of such a paper but I did never see it in my life Mr. Ser. Jeff. Do you know that Gentleman Mr. Bolron Mr. Bolron I know him not Mr. Ser. jeff. I would ask you whether you ever had any discourse with that Gentleman Mr. Bolron Never in my life Then the Gentleman was sworn being a Master of Arts. Mr. Ser. Jeff. What is the Gentlemans Name Mr. Serj. Holloway Mr. Charlett of Trinity Colledge Mr. Serj. Jeff. Pray Sir do you know that person there Mr. Charlett My Lord in the new Coffee-House that was by the Schools that was set up in the Parliament-time there was a Gentleman that is in the Court I think one Mr. Dashwood and one Mr. Box were there together to drink a dish of Coffee and and hearing that some of the Evidence were there we desired their company up and that Gentleman was one and among other Discourse they were speaking of some Pictures and they shewed us the Picture of the Tantivies Mr. Serj. jeff. Did this man shew it you Mr. Char. This very man it was the Pictures of the Tantivies and the Towzer and he told me they were made by Colledge he was a very ingenious man Mr. Bolron I know nothing of it the Character of a Popish Successor I have seen but never the other I never shewed him any such thing Then the Pictures were shewen him Mr. Charlett It was something like this but I cannot say for any of the other Mr. Bolron The charcter of a Popish Successor I say I have seen and Colledge himself hath told me he made the character of a Popish Successor I do not deny that I have seen that L. ch just Would you ask him any more questions Mr. Bolron My Lord I have something more to say concerning Mr. Brian Hains in January February and April last several times I was in his company and I heard him say he knew nothing of a Popish Plot nor of a Presbyterian Plot neither but if he were to be an Evidence he did not care what he swore but would swear and say any thing to get money Mr. just jones Did he tell you so Mr. Bolron Yes I did hear him say to day he would be a Papist to morrow a a Presbyterian he did not care for Religion he would never die for Religion he would be of that Religion that had the strongest party My Lord he told me so at my own House in Fleet-street Colledge He would say any thing for money pray my Lord take notice of that for so I find he does Mr. Bolron Then there is Dennis Macnamarra and John Macnamarra Mr. Serj. jeff. We have nothing to say to them Colledge They have been Evidences against me though you do not now produce them they are all in a string but they are not now brought because my Witnesses are prepared to answer them L. c. j. Will you call your next Witness Coll. Mr. Mowbray pray Sir do you know Narrative Smith as he calls himself Mowbray Yes my Lord. Colledge What do you know of it Mowbray I came up from York with him when I returned after I was commanded down upon the Kings account to give in Evidence against Sir Miles Stapleton he came to me the third of August and called at my House in Yorkshire and was very importunate for me to come up to London with him for he said he had a Letter come to him which commanded his presence at London very suddenly and he produced that Letter which he said came from a Gentleman of the Court or some Court dependent so he read the Letter in Mr. Bolrons hearing We set forward on Sunday and upon our journey to London he told me he had something of importance to impart to me so upon the Road he began to discourse of the Parliament and of the illegal proceedings and Arbitrary Power of the Two last Parliaments he said their proceedings were very illegal and arbitrary and he began to open some of the Votes as that which they voted that those that should lend the King money upon the Crown Lands should be enemies to the King and Kingdom and those that counselled the King to dissolve the Parliament and he repeated many Votes and said he these are signs of Arbitrary Power and certainly they design to take off the King so he proceeded further to ask me what was the Discourse of Sir John Brooks when we came up before and he did much importune me to say that Sir John Brooks did affirm there would be cutting of throats at Oxford and that the King was to be seized there I told him I could have no plausible pretence because I had no acquaintance with Sir John Brooks nor did I come up with him upon which he applied himself to Mr. Bolron and importuned him for the same he asked me who I came up with I told him I came up with Three members of Parliament my Lord Fairfax Sir John Hewly and Mr. Stern he asked what Discourse we had upon the Road And he asked whether they had any Discourse that tended to justifie their former Votes For he said if they did think to justifie any thing of those Votes or if they would not allow the King money and stood upon the Bill of Exclusion he said that was pretence enough for any man to swear that there was a Design against the King and that the King was to be seized at Oxford Coll. An excellent pretence indeed and like the rest Mowbray He would have tempted me to swear against my Lord Shaftsbury the same And he said it would be
told him no it was not as yet So I asked Mr. Dugdale because he had promised to give Mr. Colledge a Pistol what obligation there was betwixt Mr. Colledge and him that he should give him a Pistol to which he answered that Mr. Colledge had been serviceable to him in lending him a pair of Pistols to ride withal sometimes So he gave him a Pistol to satisfie him for the wearing of his Pistols now and then I thought said I Mr. Colledge did impose upon your good nature too much not but that I believe Mr. Colledge is a very honest man and stands up for the good of the King and the Government Yes said Mr. Dugdale I believe he does and I know nothing to the contrary Mr. Att. Gen. When was this Mr. Yates A little after the Parliament sat at Oxford for I never knew Mr. Colledge before Mr. Dugdale set me a work for him Coll. Mr. Yates pray was there nothing in the Coffee-House about one that he asked to go with him when he said he knew nothing against me Mr. Yates I heard one say Mr. Ser. jeff. You must speak your own knowledge you must not tell a tale of a Tub of what you heard one say Yates I heard it affirmed Mr. Ser jeff. But by whom Yates By a person in the Coffee-House Ser. jeff. Who was that person Yates By one of the Servants of the House L. c. j. That is no Evidence at all if you know any thing of your own knowledge speak it Ser. jeff. Is he here Yates No I think not Mr. ju jones How long do you think we must sit here to hear other peoples stories L. c. j. If you know any thing of your own knowledge I say speak it Mr. Att. Gen. Pray let me ask you that question again When was this that he said he believed he was an honest man Yates It was about three weeks after the Parliament sat at Oxford Coll. Then he does me wrong now for if I were an honest man then it cannot be true that he says of me L. c. j. Who do you call next Colledge Pray my Lord who hath been sworn against me L. c. j. There is Stephen Dugdale John Smith Bryan Haynes Edward Turbervile Sir William Jennings and Mr. Masters Colledge Call Mr. Clayton My Lord at his House it was I lay in Oxford and that Dugdale says I spake some of the Treasonable words Pray Sir do you know what time I came to Oxford Mr. Clayton I remember it very well it was at the time the Parliament sat at Oxford about two or three days after it began Coll. Pray what Arms did I bring to your House Sir Mr. Clayton As to the matter of Arms ther was no other but a Sword and a pair of Pistols a pair of Pistols in his Holsters and his Sword by his side Mr. Att. Gen. Was there no Silk Armor Mr. Clayton I saw none if it please you such a thing might be Coll. My Lord I continued at his House from my coming in to my going out and that was till after the Parliament was Dissolved and I came after they were sat But heark you Mr. Clayton Mr. Dugdale says he was with me at your House Did you ever see him there Mr. Clayton I remember I have seen Dugdale at my House but never in your company Colledge Did you sell any mum Mr. Clayt No I never did sell any in my life Colledge Because he says we had mum there Mr. Clayton I never saw him there with you nor changed any word with him as I know of L. c. j. Was he never in the company of Colledge at your house Mr. Clayton Not that I saw Mr. just jones You don't know all the companies that come into your House Coll. My Lord I am told there are some that came from the Town where I was born that know me and have known me this 24 or 25 years together if you think that material for me to prove whether I am a Protestant or no. Lo. ch just If you will make out that you may But 't is your Loyalty that is in question If you will produce any that can make it appear that you use to honour the King in your discourse or so that is something Coll. If I am a Protestant then the design is plain these men swear to make a Protestant Plot and turn the Plot off the Papists Mr. Serj. jeff. What Church do you frequent in London to hear Divine Service Colledge I have received the Sacrament several times Sir George Mr. Serj. jeff. When were you last at the publick Church Colledge I hope I may be a Protestant if I have not gone thither but however I do use to go to Church Lo. ch just Well call whom you will Colledge Is Thomas Deacon there Mr. Deacon Yes Coll. He lives my Lord in the Parish where I was born If you please Mr. Deacon to give my Lord an account what you know of me from my childhood Mr. Deacon I have known Mr. Colledge ever since he was a youth he was born in the Town where I live L. ch Just Where is that Mr. Deacon At Watford a Town in Hertfordshire There he lived till he was a man and married a Neighbours Daughter of mine and lived there while he had two children I never knew but that he was a very honest man frequented and kept to the Church of England all along and paid every man his own Mr. Att. Gen. How long is it ago since he left that place Mr. Deacon I can't directly tell how long it is truely but I think 't is eighteen years since you left Watford Coll. 'T is fourteen years ago Mr. just jones You say fourteen and they say eighteen Mr. Deacon I say I cannot exactly tell Coll. But Mr. Deacon I have been in your Country lately Mr. Deacon He used to come there once or twice a year generally to see his friends I have heard him delare himself against the Popish Church always very much L. c. j. Did you never hear him talk against the Government Mr. Deacon No never in my life Mr. Ser. Jeff. Nor against the King Mr. Deacon Nor against the King Mr. just jones Was he in your Country the last Easter Mr. Deacon I think it was about Easter he was there Mr. just jones Was he at Church there then and received the Sacrament Mr. Deacon I know not whether he was there of the Lords-day or no He did quarter at another Town at Bushy where he has a Brother-in-law L. c. j. Well call another Coll. Mr. Whitaker L. c. j. What is your Christian Name Mr. Whitaker William L. ch just What do you ask of him Coll. Whether he knows me and my Education Mr. Whitaker Sir I have known him this six and twenty years I knew his Parents I know his mother she lives now at Watford I have known his behaviour to be very civil and good a very good Church-man he was when he lived
you Coll. VVe did discourse commonly then concerning the Papists Pray Sir did you find me inclined to the Popish interest Mr. T. Norreys You spoke very much against them Colledge Did you ever hear me speak against the King or the Government Mr. T. Norreys No I never heard it for if he were my Brother I should have discovered it L. ch just How often have you seen him Mr. T. Norreys Very often and conversed much with him Collede My Lord as to the papers charged upon me that they were mine I declare I know not of them Dugdale says I owned them and the Letter and several Prints but my Lord I had done my self a great injury if I had done or owned those things he hath charged me withal I never could make a Picture nor never did draw a Picture in my life and that very person that he says I owned I got it to be Printed by hath denied it before the King and Council for he there testified that he did not know the person that caused it to be Printed L. ch just How came you to have so many seized in your House Colledge My Lord here is Elizabeth Hunt the Maid by whom they were taken in and who can give you an account of it I cannot deny but that they were in my House but that I was the Author or did take them in is as great a mistake as ever was made Call Elizabeth Hunt I do not know whether Curtis be in Town but this I am confident he was examined before the King and Council and He and his VVise denied it Lo. c. j. He shall be called if he be here Colledge I know nothing of the Printing of them nor was I the Author of them L. c. j. They were dispersed by you up and down Colledge That they were in my House I believe my Lord and this woman will tell you how my Lord. Pray tell the Court how these Papers that are called the Raree-Shew came to be in my House Eliz. Hunt A Porter brought three bundles to our House and asked whether my Master was not within I told him no he was not Said he these Papers are to be left here said I who do they come from said he 't is all one for that you must pay me and I must leave them here so I gave him six pence and he left the Papers but I never saw the man since nor before And my Lord I never read them what they were but I saw they were such sort of Prints as those L. c. j. How long was it before they were seized Eliz. Hunt A matter of seven or eight weeks Coll. My Lord it seems they were put in a Box and left in my Counting-House I never touched them but there they staid for ought I know till they were taken L. c. j. You were Colledge's Servant were you not Eliz. Hunt Yes my Lord. Colledge My Lord I neither knew the Printer nor the Author but I heard a man was in trouble about them upon a By-Law in the Stationers Company Mr. Att. Gen. How came you by that Original Coll. Have you it there I know of none was produced But if I were a person concerned it were no Treason and my Lord I hope you will do me that Justice to let the Jury know they are not Treason none of these Papers And I do declare I know nothing of the Original the Printer nor the Author Lo. ch just You spend time in making observations out of order of time When you have given your Evidence then make your observations Colledge I confess I may err as to matter of Order for I was never in this capacity before But pray do you tell the Court how the papers came there and all the transactions for I was a Prisoner when they came and searched L. c. j. No it was eight weeks before you were taken they were left there Mr. Ser. jeff. Did you tell you Master soon after they were left there Eliz. Hunt No. Mr. Ser. jeff. Within what time did you tell him Eliz. Hunt I believe it was a week or a fortnight Mr. Att. Gen. Where was your Master all that time Eliz. Hunt He was in the countrey Colledge My Lord I did see them there I must confess I do not deny but I saw them there but I knew not whence they came nor whose they were nor did I ever intend to meddle with them nor concern my self about them VVhat have you to say more Eliz. Hunt Concerning Mr. Dugdale if I may speak Lo. c. j. Ay go on Eliz. Hunt I went to receive the money of Mr. Dugdale that he owed my Master and asking him for it he said he would pay me such a time to morrow morning if I would come for it but when I came he had not the money ready for me Sir said I I think 't is very hard that you should keep my Masters money from him and yet you go and swear against his life too what do you think we shall do at home in the Family if you keep my Masters money and he be in Prison Said he there is a great deal of do about my swearing against your Master more than needs but as I hope for Salvation I do not believe Mr. Colledge had any more hand in any conspiracy against his Majesty than the child unborn Here is Dugdale let him deny it if he can Dugdale As I hope for Salvation I did not say so Eliz. Hunt Upon my Salvation 't is true what I say Stephens This was the maid that hid her Masters papers when they were searched for Mr. Ser. Jeff. Be quiet art thou entring into dialogues with the maid now Coll. Mr. Stevens 't is well known what a man you are to propagate Witnesses My Lord she gave me an account of this in the Tower before I came away that Dugdale desired to speak with Mr. Smith and told her that nothing that he had to say would touch my life Eliz. Hunt As I am alive 't is true L. c. j. Mr. Dugdale denies it now Eliz. Hunt He is not a right man if he denies it for he told it me twice Colledge I told Mr. Smith of it when he had leave to come to me I told him what the maid said he had said to her and this was three weeks ago said he I will speak with him with all my heart if he has a mind to speak with me for he hath said that he hath nothing against her Master that can touch an hair of his head nor nothing that can touch his life that he knew nothing of a Plot or contrivance against the King and if I could help it I had as lieve have given a hundred pound I had never spoken what I have This he said to her L. c. j. You tell her what to say Eliz. Hunt Sir he does not tell me for Mr. Dugdale said those very things to me Coll. This is an account I had when I was a
Prisoner I could not direct her L. c. j. Do you deny what they say to be true Mr. Dugdale Mr. Dugd. My Lord she came to me for money I told her I had it not ready but would pay her and in the Shop before the Apprentice boy she desired of me that I would write two or three words what I had to say against her Master and I told Mr. Graham of it So said I I cannot tell I have not the papers nor what informations I have given against him So she came again the next morning and she was at me to write down what I said I wonder said I your Master will send you had not he as good send Mr. Smith who is his counsel And this was all the words we had Eliz. Hunt My Lord I do solemnly assure you he said he would write down what he had said against my Master and would fain speak with Mr. Smith for there was more ado made about it than needs Dugd. Mr. Graham can tell what it was for I came and told him immediately Lo. c. j. Did you tell her you had nothing to say against her Master that would touch his life Dugdale I could not say that I had said nothing against her Master for she asked me that I would write down what I had said but I told her I knew not what was Treason that must be referred to the Court. Mr. just jones Did he speak it openly or privately to you Eliz. Hunt He did not speak it aloud no body heard him but my self Dugd. It was in the Shop and the Apprentice-boy was by Mr. just Levins Was this after he had been at the Old-Baily or before Eliz. Hunt Yes it was after he had been at the Old-Baily and after he had been at Oxon. too Mr. just Levins Then it was before the Court what could be made of it Coll. She had gone forty times for the money I had lent him out of my pocket and I lent him that when I had little more for my self Eliz. Hunt I did tell him Mr. Dugdale if you can't let me have my Masters money if you please to tell me what you have made Oath against my Master Said he I can't let thee have it now but thou shalt have what I have to say against him I will draw it up in writing and thou shalt have it to morrow-morning The next morning I came to him again and said I I am come again what must I do Said he I have no money such an one hath not hoped me to it Sir then said I I hope you will be as good as your word to let me know what you have made Oath against my Master Said he I was about it yesterday but could not do it But Sweetheart said he and took me by the hand I will give you a copy of it to day at ten of the clock and if I do not I will tell it thee by word of mouth So I came to the House at ten and staid till eleven but did not see him Mr. just Jones You had a great mind to be tampering Eliz. Hunt The first time he asked me who was his counsel I told him Mr. Smith then said he I have a great desire to speak with him So I told my Master of it Colledge My Lord you see it is but black and white all this whole contrivance upon me she hath proved I knew nothing of these papers and indeed I did not Lo. c. j. Do you call any more Witnesses Colledge There is my Brother-in-law that received those papers Call George Spur and Sarah Goodwin Mrs. Goodwin appeared Colledge Do you know any thing of the papers that were carried to my Brother George Spur â— Mrs. Goodwin Yes I do The Saturday after my Brothers confinement about eight of the clock in the morning I having heard of it came into the House and in a quarter of an hours time in comes a Waterman and desires an handful or two of shavings I knowing not who he was nor what he desired them for told him he should have them so he went up to the working-shop togather them for he pretended that to be his business L. c. j. Whose Waterman was it Mrs. Goodwin A Waterman I suppose that belonged to His Majesty for he had a Coat marked with R. C. Coll. This is after I was in custody Mrs. Goodwin Yes it was the Saturday after So no sooner had he the shavings but he goes out of the Shop and comes in again with three of his Majesties Messengers and they made enquiry after papers and I being innocent of concealing any papers or any thing said I knew of none so they came to one box that had the Tools for the men to work with and they demanded the keys I told him I knew not where the keys were So they went to the next and found it open but nothing did they find there there was a Bed wherein formerly my Brother's Servants did lye Said one to the other look well whether there be not something hid in that bed said I I suppose there is no such thing as you inquire for if you please you may take off the clothes and gave them free toleration to look but for the chest I would not deliver the keys because the man was not there that owned it In their searching they flung down the Wainscote and did a great deal of damage to his Goods Gentlemen said I I suppose you have order to search but none to spoil a mans Goods When they were gone having found none they threatned God dam them they would have them for there they were But I being ignorant of the concealment of the papers I requested the Maid and my Brothers Son whether they knew of any papers and they satisfied me they knew of some prints that were brought by a Porter to be left at my Brothers but they knew not whence they came nor what they were and the same answer gave my Brother's Son that he did not know whose the papers were But since his Fathers confinement they were laid up sure and safe for they knew not what they concerned Upon this my Lord my Brother in-law George Spur he comes into the House and if it please your Honour I requested him to carry them into the Countrey to his House to secure them till we knew what they did concern and who they did belong to Whereupon he replied my Lord that he was fearful to carry any thing out of the House said I if you will please to take them of me I will carry them out of the House for your security because his Wife looked every hour being with child when she should be delivered and he was fearful of troubling her So I carried them out of the House and delivered them to him L. c. just To whom Mrs. Goodwin To my Brother-in-law Mr. George Spur. So at my going out after I had delivered them to him in my way back again I
found a small Paper-book and a small parcel of Writings who dropped them or who laid them there I cannot tell But taking them up unadvisedly I put them among the Prints which I carried out I delivered them to my Brother-in-law This is all I have to say as to the papers Stevens Three parts of what she hath said is false Mr. Serj. jeff. Well hold you your tongue Stevens Mr. Atterbury is here my Lord that searched the house Atterbury Be pleased to give me my Oath I will tell you what passed Mr. Att. Gen. We don't think it material but you were sworn before stand up L. c. j. Tell the manner of finding the papers This woman gives us an account of a Waterman that came in pretending to fetch shavings Atterbury Upon my Oath it was not so The Waterman was a Waterman that brought me and two more of my Fellows and the Waterman followed us into the yard but came after us and being ordered to look for papers I did search the House for I had Intelligence that there were papers there but I did not find them there But upon finding the first papers I made the more diligent search but could not find the rest I most chiefly sought after Mr. Serj. jeff. Did the Kings Waterman take any shavings by himself Atterbury We were all together we did not move out of any one Room but together this Gentlewoman was in the House when I came and there was a little child a girl and this maid was there Mr. Serj. jeff. Did you come for shavings there Mr. Atterbury Atterbury No I did not Mrs. Goodwin The Waterman did though first Coll. Call George Spur. But he did not appear But Mr. Atterbury before you go down pray tell the Court did you take any of these papers at my House or at my Brother-in-law Spurs House Sewel My Lord I took the papers and I took them at Bushy at Spurs House And this woman carried out one half to Spur and the maid carried out the other L. c. j. When did he carry them Mrs. Goodwin The same day they searched for them for my Brother came in at the same time L. c. j. How do you know Spur carried any Mrs. Goodwin He carried none out of the House I carried them out of the House and delivered them to him Lo. c. just Then they were in the House Mrs. Goodwin They were in the Counting-House Coll. My Lord if they were in any other place I know not how they came there for this was done after I was a prisoner and Sewel says they were removed when I was a prisoner Where is George Spur Mr. Ser. jeff. It is admitted they were at your House and taken thence and afterwards carried to Spurs Colledge They carried them abroad and handed them from one to another and took them into the Countrey I know not what they did with them but my Lord I neither know the Printer nor the Author I declare it upon my life L. c. just Have you any more Witnesses Colledge No my Lord I have not L. c. j. Will you that are of Counsel for the King call any more Mr. Att. Gen. One or two if you please my Lord. Call John Shirland And it is to this purpose it seems very lately Mr. Bolron would have tempted him to have forsworn himself Colledge My Lord I hope if they bring in any persons of new Evidence I may have leave to contradict them L. c. j. You need not fear but you shall be heard to them Mr. Att. Gen. We shall prove Bolron to be a Subornor of Witnesses and that the Jury may know what he is he and Mowbray have gone to give Evidence at several Trials and the Jury would never believe them when they were upon their Oath Mr. Ser. Jeff. I think it needs not time hath been spent enough already Coll. No whispering good my Lord. Sir Geo. Jeff. Good Mr. Colledge you are not to tell me my duty here Mr. just jones It is not lawful for the Kings Counsel to confer together Coll. Not to whisper my Lord all ought to be spoken out L. c. j. Nothing ought to be said to the Jury indeed privately Mr. Att Gen. But shall not we talk among our selves Coll. No I hope not of any thing that concerns my Trial. Mr. just jones You are deceived in that Colledge I think t is Law that all ought to be publick I beg your pardon if I am in the wrong Mr. Att. Gen. Swear John Shirland Which was done Pray give the Court and the Jury an accompt of Bolron what you knew of him Shirland Bolron my Lord last Whitson-Tuesday would have given me ten pound and an Horse to go down and swear against Sir Miles Stapleton I was to swear I was suborned by his Friends and several other persons which I have discovered upon my Oath L. c. Just Is this man sworn Mr. Att. Gen. Yes Lo. c. just Now call Bolron to confront him Colledge He offered you an Horse as much as I offered Turbervile an Horse and I never offered Him an Horse in the world Then Bolron appeared L. c. j. Is this the man Shirland Mr. Att. Gen. Did he give you Ten pound to swear Shirland He bid me Ten pound and an Horse to swear against Sir Miles Stapleton Mr. ju jones Did you ever see him Bolron Mr. Bolron Yes my Lord he was to have been a Witness against Sir Miles Stapleton and he pretended that he was suborned by Sir Miles or some of his friends Coll. What are you Sir Mr. Bolron what is Mr. Shirland Mr. Bolron He is a man lives by his Shifts He hath been whip'd in Bridewel Colledge Do you know him Sir What is he Mr. Bolron Even an idle man Shirland You once when you saw me drew your Sword on me because I would not do as you would have me Mr. Bolron I profess my Lord 't is not so Mr. Att. Gen. Here is Mr. Smith hear what he says against Mr. Bolron Mr. Smith As we were coming up along he was speaking to me of Colledge and told me he had as much to say against him as any body and if I would speak for him he would evidence againce Sir John Brookes for a discourse at Ferry-bridge Mr. Bolron I never did hear any such thing Mr. Smith No man in your own Country will believe you Colledge They believed you no more it seems neither L. c. j. Do you call any more Witnesses Gentlemen Mr. Ser. jeff. No I think we need not L. c. j. Look you Mr. Colledge as I understand it the Kings Counsel will produce no more Witnesses You may make what Observations you will upon the Evidence to the Court and then must them make what Observations they will to the Court and then we will give the Charge to the Jury Colledge My Lord I have only innocence to pleade I have no Flourishes to set off my Desence I cannot take the Jury nor the Court with an Oratory
I am unhappy in those things But my Lord I do declare as to my own particular in the presence of God Almighty that as to whatsoever is sworn against me as to the seizing his Majesty providing Arms or having any Design either at Oxford or London or any other place in the world to seize upon the person of the King or to rebel against the Government established I vow to God Almighty I never had such a thought in me 't is a truth my Lord. My Lord they have sworn desperately against me and it hath appeared I think by very credible persons that they have contradicted one another It hath been proved that it was a Design that they were tampered withal that they complained they were in poverty that they wanted maintenance and they did confess they were tempted to come over to swear against Protestants and now the Lord knows they have closed with it and they begin with me I hope the Jury have taken notice that I have contradicted them sufficiently in what they have sworn and that it is not possible if I had a grain of sence for me to discover my self to be such an one to Haynes that was an Irish-man and should speak all the Treason that he hath galloped through at first sight that as soon as ever I saw him that I should speak so to him I hope you will consider whether it consists with common Reason when there could be no probability of making any use of him in the world My Lord all my Witnesses that I have brought your Lordship can and I hope will sum them up better than I can for I declare it I have been so concerned that I have not been able to write half of it down But I think there is never a man that hath sworn against me but hath been sufficiently confuted by persons of integrity and Honesty men of Principles and men of Religion they are such my Lord that make conscience of what they say they are persons altogether unknown to me most of them as to what they had to say it was what they offered voluntarily and I am certain they have had nothing but their bare charges if they had that for their pains in coming hither and my Lord there is no probability that they should come and attest any thing that is false for me who am a stranger for nothing No man is a Knave for nothing as I believe these men are not My Lord I do declare it I was bred a Protestant and I have lived so I am so this very day I have been a lover of the Church of England and of all the fundamental points of Doctrine believed in it I own the same God the same Saviour the same Gospel and the same Faith I never had a prejudice against any man in the Church in my life but such as have made it their business to promote the interest of the Papists and such I must beg leave to say there are amongst them for there is no Society in the world without some bad men and these do promote the interest of the Papists by dividing the Protetestants and allowing none to be true Protestants but those that are within the Church of England established by Law which is a Notion so wide I could never close with that I never had a prejudice against any man but a Knave in my life I have heard I confess some of the Dissenters and I have found very honest just pious godly men among them men free from Oaths and all Debauchery men that make a conscience of what they say not like some persons that say they are of the Church of England that carry themselves in their lives and actions so as that no credit can be gained to the Church by them My Lord I have been an hearty man against the Papists I have been an hearty man as any person of my condition for Parliaments which I look upon to be my Birth-right and under God Almighty the Bulwark of our Liberty and I am sorry if any man should be an instrument to create a misunderstanding betwixt the King and the Parliament for I always thought I served my Country when I served the Parliament and I served the King when I served my Country I never made any difference between them because I thought them both one I had the Honour to be entrusted by them before and upon that account I came voluntarily down hither I rid my own Horse I spent my own money and eat my own Bread I was not beholding to any man for the value of six pence all the while I was here My Lord I have ever since the Plot hath been discovered endeavered with all my heart and all my power to dedect and come at the very bottom of it I have spared for no time nor pains what lay fairly in my way in every thing to encourage those that discovered the Villanies of the Popish Plot against the Life of the King and for the Subversion of the Religion and Government established by Law Now certainly it is not strange to the world for I think all Christendom is aware how plain the Popish Plot hath been proved These men that swear against me were they that used to follow me sometimes they would say it was they that had come to save our lives and yet we let them want Bread That argument my Lord was so fair that I thought it unreasonable to see them starve And I have said sometimes to some honest considerable men that it was hard they should have this to say of us that they should want Bread to eat that were the Kings Evidence to detect a Popish Plot wherein we our selves were concerned and that when they had saved our blood in our veins they should be suffered to starve And one time I think some three or four Gentlemen of the City did give me 42 s. or 40 s. and 8 d. or thereabouts which I did distribute amongst them And they never came to me in my life but to seek relief they knowing that I had a general acquaintance And sometimes they thought it might be fit to petition the Common Council of London to take care of them Sometimes they would speak to particular men that care should be taken of them At other times indeed it was not this sort of discourse they had with me but they would pretend they had something to discover of the Popish Plot and so they would apply to me as a man of some acquaintance And the first time I saw Haynes was upon such an account the beginning of March last and it was thus I was at Richard's Coffee-House at Temple-Bar where Macnamarra did desire me to go out and I should hear such a piece of Roguery I never did hear in my life against my Lord Shaftsbury So I did go out with them and I called Captain Brown who is since dead to go with me and we went to the Hercules Pillars and Haynes there
he may observe the same rule he desired about our Witnesses that he may call but one at a time Colledge Yes yes I will call them one by one L. c. j. Are not your Witnesses together send to them Colledge My Lord I don't know I have not seen one since I come This is not the first time my Lord the Papists have designed to take away my life though it is the first time they go to take it away by a Law L. c. j. I know not of one Papist that is a Witness against you Colledge There is never a man of them except Sir William Jennings but what was a Papists Mr. Att. Gen. What say you to Mr. Masters Colledge Mr. Masters says nothing material it was only a jocose discourse Mr. Serj. jeff. It was very pleasant discourse upon my word you were as merry as when you were singing of the Rary Shew Mr. just jones What do you make mirth of the blackest Tragedy that ever was that horrid Rebellion and the Murther of the late King Colledge I never justified that Parliament in any such thing that they did contrary to Law Mr. just jones He swears it Mr. Att. Gen. Hickman does not appear call another Coll. Call William Shewin who appeared L. c. j. Look you here Friend you are not to be sworn but when you speak in a Court of Justice and in a course of Justice you must speak as in the presence of God and only speak what is true Coll. I would not have any body speak any thing for me but what is truth L. c. j. Now ask him what you will Colledge I don't know the Gentleman But pray Sir will you tell what you know of these Witnesses Mr. Shewin Name any of them that I know pray Sir and I 'll tell you Colledge Do you know Bryan Haynes Mr. Shewin I know there is such a man but I have nothing to say to him Colledge Do you know Turbervile Mr. Shewin Yes Colledge Pray tell what you know of him Mr. Shewin My Lord I was in Turbervile's company on Thursday night last at the Golden Posts at Charing-Cross and there I heard him say that if I were at Oxford I should hear strange things against Colledge and he would lay ten to one that Mr. Bethel and Mr. Wilmore should be hanged at Christmass and he would lead him by the Gold-chain along Fleetstreet and down with his Breeches in the middle of the Coffee-House with a Band about his neck and a Cloak Mr. Serj. jefferies Did he say all these things against Mr. Sheriff Bethel I assure you he is a bold man Coll. What do you know of Mr. Smith Mr. Shewin I know him by sight but I have nothing in particular to say concerning him I have something to say to Macnamarra Sir if he were here Colledge Do you know any thing of this conspiracy in general Mr. Jones What of your conspiracy Mr. Shewin I know that they did lay who should be Hang'd at Candlemass who at Christmass and who at several other times Lo. ch just What did you hear Turbervile say Mr. Shewin Those words I spake before about Sheriff Bethel and about the Amsterdam Coffee-House Colledge Did they say what time I should be Hang'd for the Discourse ' rose about me Mr. Shewin One told me that there was one that did design to be returned upon this Jury that was resolved to hang him right or wrong Mr. High Sher. My Lord I did hear there was such a one and I left him out of the Jury L. ch just For Mr. Sheriffs Honour we must take notice of what he hath said He says he heare of a man that spoke something of that nature and therefore he left him out of the Jury Coll. Now 't is possible these Witnesses were at the same sport Mr. Shewin Was Mr. Peacock Mrs. Fitz Harris Maids Father or she here either of them Witnesses against you Mr. Serj. Jeff. No they were not Sir Coll. They did swear against me at the finding of the Bill Mr. Ser. Jeff. We have only called these Witnesses if you can say any thing against them do Coll. Call Henry Hickman who appeared Mr. Serj. Holloway Where do you live Sir Mr. Hickman At Holborn-Bridge Mr. Att. Gen. What Trade are you Mr. Hickman A Cabinet-maker L. ch Just What do you ask him Coll. Do you know Haynes Hickman Yes very well because he used to come to my House to a Popish Widow that was a Lodger in my House where I live now and this person was a Prisoner at Haynes's when he was a Prisoner in the Fleet. I always had a suspicion he was a Priest not that I could accuse him really of any thing but he several times using to come to my House I thought so of him and discoursing with my Landlady Lo. ch just Your Tenant you mean Mr. Hickman Yes my Tenant I asked her what this Fellow was said she he is a very dangerous Fellow though he is a Papist and I am one my self yet he is a dangerous person and he does not much care what he swears against any one Mr. just jones This your Tenant told you what do you know your self Mr. Hickman Another time he came to speak with my Tenant Mrs. Scot who is now gone into Ireland when he came to the House he asked me is Mrs. Scot within Yes said I Mr. Haynes she is above and up he goes and there they locked the door and plucked out the Key so I slipt off my Shooes for I thought there might be more danger from such people than I could discover any other way So I went up stairs and stood at the door and hearkened hearing my Landlady talk something to him he wraps out a great Oath God dam me said he I care not what I swear nor who I swear against for 't is my Trade to get money by swearing Whereupon my Lord I came down as fast as I could and a little after I saw him go out and as soon as my Landlady came down said I Mrs. Scot I desire you would provide your self as soon as you can I would be civil to you and I would not put you to a non-pluss because your Goods by the Law will be seized for not departing according to the Kings Proclamation So a while ago since this business of Haynes's swearing against my Lord of Shaftsbury I bethought my self of some other businesses I had heard To find out the Knavery I went to the Fleet where he hath a very ill character as well amongst the Papists as the Protestants Whereupon I asked one Fellow that was a kind of a Porter if he knew any thing of him Said he Go you to such an one Mr. Ser. Jeff. We must not permit this for example sake to tell what others said Lo. Ch. Just Nothing is Evidence but what you know of your own knowledge you must not tell what others said Hickman This I do say I heard him say and there are