great Citie which spirituallie is called Sodome and Aegypt and then the VVhoore was drunken with the Blood of Saynctes and the Beast became whollie of the Dragon's Colour Nowe where vpon this That no opposition was made by them your Man concludeth That there-fore none at all were I pray you Philomathes what kynde of Logicke doe you account it Because in Spayne and Italie no open opposition is made to Poperie are there there-fore no Protestant eyther Pastours or Professours in those partes The future Ages might perhaps bee induced to thinke so because that so the Storie of the Tyme may carrie no-thing beeing recorded but what in common obtayneth in the Tyme But wee who nowe liue would laugh him to heading as an impudent or senselesse Liar who would but denye that even in Rome are hundreths who holde the Pope to bee Antichrist And howe great encowragement so-ever our too great Lenitie giveth them of kything yet would they bee contented that their numbers amongst vs were esteemed but according to their open and advowed opposition When the golden Calfe was set vp in the Wildernesse and that by so common an Apostasie as that Aaron was carryed away with the violent Streame of that Evill it might appeare that none had beene there for the LORD or free of that common Guiltinesse and yet thousands did kythe in the convenient tyme of challenge Were there none true eyther Prophets or Professours in Israel the yeares of Elias lurking And yet who spake publicklie for the Trueth Did not even Elias thinke that all were gone when yet there were an hundreth Prophets in one Caue and seaven thousand true Professours in one and the same Kingdome Shall Tolleration speciallie in perilous tymes conclude approbation of what is tollerated in all the Tolleraters there-of Doeth not Augustine acknowledge in his tyme where-in the Mysterie of Iniquitie was not so farre advanced but that Trueth still obtayned some place in common that for regarde of the CHVRCHES peace they were compelled to tollerate manie thinges which other-wayes they vtterlie mislyked Attour in your Man's Objection is another ridiculous Fallacie by confounding the diverse and distinct tymes and accordinglie the diverse and distinct degrees of growth of that Apostasie in the course of tyme and not distinguishing accordinglie the diverse sortes and degrees of Opponers and of opposition therevnto No Age since the Apostolicke tymes wanted its owne opposition and Opponers according to the degree of Evill all-though they came not to that last and highest degree to which the open discoverie of the Evill in the toppe of all importable and vncurable Impietie did force Men. Loue is ever loath to cast off till all hope bee past And sober Men some-tymes in a laudable judgement some-tymes agayne in weaknesse will even choose often in a prevayling Iniquitie rather to lurke and keepe themselues cleane than with perilous Contestation eyther to disturbe the CHVRCHES Peace or object them-selues to desperate Daungers Which not-with-standing when they perceiue that vvithout playne perill of all Christianitie and imputation to them-selues of betraying the Gospell Peace can no more bee keeped will then rather contest with all hazard than tollerate a clearlie-discovered and a desperatelie-pernicious Mischiefe Shall a Thiefe bee counted no Thiefe but from the tyme of his open Endytement Or shall the first beginninges of injurious Vsurpation on the one part and an vndoubted and cleare Right on the other be reckoned onlie from the first publick poynts of Litiscontestation A Man disposed to Peace will long beare and patientlie expect Reparation of Wronges and even comport with manie injurious Encroachmentes vpon hope that Reason and gentle Admonition will bring the Partie to doe him measure VVho not-with-standing at last perceiving his Adversaries waywardnesse and daylie progresse in wrong doing will then intende playne Action agaynst him for his Right Nowe shall the vsurping and injurious Partie haue in this anie reason where-by eyther to justifie him-selfe or eschew Reparation of all his by-gone Wronges and vsurpation because they were never till then challenged in that manner and degree You may see more heere-of in my TREATISE of our CALLINGES and COMMENTARIE on the REVELATION Philomathes Well let vs goe on Did Saynct Peter's Fayth fayle Eubulus No but if it had what should haue followed there-vpon vnto the Church more than vpon the fall of Iudas What a ridiculous Question is this as if on the standing or falling of anie one Man or what-so-ever number of Men did hang the fall or stabilitie of the Church which is builded neyther on Man nor Men but on that immooueable Rocke which can not fall Yet your Bellarmine confesseth That though the Pope should fall away from Trueth yet the Church should not there-fore fayle Philomathes You who are so quicke a Carper of Aequivocations fall now to the same Play which you reprooue so often in our Poet. For by Peter's Fayth hee doeth not meane that Spirituall Vertue where-with Peter was endewed there-by apprehending CHRIST to Salvation as you would perhaps descrybe it but that Doctrine of Fayth which Peter professed and taught Eubulus Then Philomathes the playing with Aequivocations shal be still your Poet's part for the Lord prayed for the stabilitie of Peter's particular fayth where-of Satan sought to sift him which remayning steadfast was his Victorie in that his Temptation as I haue before signified And if your Man will haue it permitted vnto him by Poeticall Licence agaynst the LORD'S mynde to wrest Scripture and to intitle thus the Doctrine of Fayth yet why is it called Peter's faith more than am 's or Iohn's And why would not your Poet rather according to Scripture speach cal it the Faith of our LORD IESVS CHRIST But in what-so-ever sense giving him that the Fall or Standing of the Church had depended whollie on the fayling or stabilitie of Peter's Fayth could that Fayth bee no other-wayes preserved but in the Church of Rome And shall the fall of Rome conclude that Peter's Fayth and consequentlie CHRIST'S Church is fallen To make this Conclusion infallible your Man must bring a better Argument than a vayne vaunt of a bare personall Succession while in the tyme they are fallen away from Peter's Fayth to the fayth of Simon Magus Philomathes Did the Gates of Hell prevayle Eubulus No but they did so farre assayle and with such successe in GOD His just judgement and wyse permisssion as Satan obtayned a Throne even in the Temple of GOD. Philomathes Did the Salt lose its Savour Eubulus It did so farre lose its Savour in common and such as should haue beene the Salt of the Earth became so vnsavourie that they could serue for nothing but to bee cast out and trodden vnder foot Cast out the Court which is with-out the Temple and mete it not c. yet ever still the LORD had Ministers so seasoned with the Spirit of Light and Grace as they were al-wayes Candle-stickes and Oliues to
or in another consideration wee call the Catholicke Church all of all Kinreds Tongues and Nations who vnder one and the same common Ensigne of Christian Profession giue their names to CHRIST and are in the count of His House heere whether they bee onlie in it or also of it or to speake improperlie as in some Cases the Fathers doe the Catholicke Church is the communitie of the Church holding Trueth in relation to Declyners there-from But your Poet appropriating this Title to the first Converters hath forfaulted from this Dignitie all the Converted by them And thus his Proposition is not onlie false but even ridiculous For how-so-ever the Converters of others by an improper Speach may be called Catholicks as anie particular Church holding Trueth is called a Catholicke Church or anie faithfull Man a Catholicke man because they are true partes of the Catholicke Church in which onlie is Trueth Lyfe and Salvation yet to call anie particular eyther person order of persons or companie the Catholicke man persons or Church it is an insolentlie arrogant Speach His Assumption I distinguish If hee affirme That Rome first converted all Nations to the Fayth and was the first publisher of the Gospell it is so shameleslie false as I thinke Satan might blush to broach out such a Lie How did Paul glorie in the LORD and that before hee did see Rome that from Arabia to Illyricum he had filled all with the Gospell of CHRIST and that most part where CHRIST had not beene named not building on anie other man's foundation Haue all the other eleven Apostles besides Peter forgotten thinke you their LORD's Commission of whom wee haue no certayne record that ever anie did see Rome If converting Nations to the Fayth might appropriate to anie Church downe of the same But no Companie offereth to GOD a cleane Sacrifice from the rysing of the Sunne to the setting of the same but the Church of Rome There-fore the Church of Rome is onlie and properlie the Catholicke Church The Proposition of this his Syllogisme hee taketh from the Prophet Malachie His Assumption hee prooveth stronglie for-sooth by an vndenyable Trueth That Onelie the Church of Rome offereth all-where the holie Sacrifice of the Messe Which hee maketh no question but that is the onlie cleane Sacrifice offered to GOD all-where from the rysing to the setting of the Sunne And thus hee thinketh his Conclusion can not fayle him Eriphilus And so I thinke also Eubulus and I hope shall thinke so still for anie Aunswere you are able to make there-vnto how-so-ever you would seeme for-sooth to make a verie light account of it and would according to your manner laugh-over those Argumentes which most pintch you Eubulus Then advert what I haue to say and thinke syne what you please The Condition of CHRIST His Church set downe by Malachie whence the Poet bringeth his Proposition I acknowledge according to the Prophet his sense and wordes which your man Eriphilus resumeth deceitfullie The wordes are these From the ◅sing of the Sunne to the going downe there-of My Name shall bee great amongst the Gentiles and in all places Incense shall bee brought to My Name and a cleane Gift These cleare and distinct wordes eyther ignorantlie or fraudfullie your man obscureth perverteth and involveth to darken the difference betwixt expiatorie Sacrifices or Sacrifices for sinne and other Oblations of Prayse or due Worship vvhich both in their diverse Types are most distinctlie put and in the Anagogicke Veritie must bee diverselie considered And this your man doeth to bring some Colour to his Assumption which is impudentlie false Neyther will the Offering of your Messe which is neyther cleane holie nor a Sacrifice but a most sacrilegious prophanation of an holie Sacrament and the moste detestable Idolatrie that ever was defended for good Worship appropriate to Rome the Offring all-where of Incense and a cleane Gift to the LORD Are you so shallow a Man in Scripture Eriphilus that you know not how all true Christians anie-where beeing made Kinges and Priestes to GOD in CHRIST doe offer vp to Him the Sacrifices of Prayse even the Calues of the Lippes Doe wee not offer vp our selues an holie living acceptable Sacrifice even our reasonable Service What-so-ever workes of Charitie wee in the feare and loue of GOD performe are they not Sacrifices and accepted in CHRIST To doe good and to distribute forget not for with such Sacrifices GOD is well pleased sayeth the Apostle Is not the Liberalitie of the Philippians by the same Apostle called A Sacrifice of sweet Savour and acceptable to GOD Your Man his whole Senses haue beene drowned in his Challice when so doltishlie hee forgot him-selfe as to leaue no cleane Offering in the Church but his monstrous Messe As for anie other Sacrifice for sinne but that one and once for all offered wee acknowledge not So as your Messe may be well relegated to sicke Swyne for whom vpon conveaned pryce your Men haue mumbled out a million Now as your Questioner playeth the Cavillatour both in that hee confoundeth diverse kyndes of Sacrifices and also that hee acknowledgeth not with cleare Scripture anie other cleane Oblation in the Christian Church but the Mischiefe of the Messe So hee illudeth more-over by reasoning from Sacrifice and Oblation figuratiuelie and allegoricallie spoken of to Sacrifice and Oblation in proprietie of signification from typicall speaches concluding not allegoricallie but properlie and that most ignorantlie foolishlie The Prophets fore-speaking of CHRIST His Kingdome doe ordinarilie expresse the Condition thereof vnder Legall Types where-by it was fore-shadowed Which is so evident in all their manner of Dispensation as it is marvell if anie dare pretende to misknow it Speaking of the Conversion of Nations a◅d of their Association to the Church they prophecie That all Nations shall come yearlie and worship at HIERUSALEM Which to vnderstand properlie it were to bee a proper Asse in Divinitie For expressing of the great measure of Light and Knowledge vnder the Gospell they prophecie That all men shall see Visions and dreame Dreames to declare that the Worship of GOD shall bee no more tyed to anie one place but that all-where who worship Him in Spirit and Trueth shall bee accepted Isaia telleth of three Altars to bee erected one in Iudea one in Assyria and one in Aegypt And thus to show how the worship of GOD should bee no more confined within the Iewish natiō or precinct of Canaan Malacbie fore-telleth That Incense and a cleane Gift shall bee offered in all places and that the Name of the LORD shall bee great from the rysing of the Sunne to the going-downe there-of And howe will you out of this make your monstrous Messe or out of your Messe make the miserable Mongers there-of to bee the Catholicke Church except first you make Mules of Men Or is there anie eyther Shame or Sinceritie in disputing when vpon typicall Praedictions Conclusions are inferred
Continuance could not bee sayde of the Church Semper that is at all tymes For at the first moment of Adam and Evaes Creation who were the Church Continuance of them then had bene no true Predication when as yet no tyme had run Besides what-so-ever is a proper Note it is so converted with the subject where-of it is the propertie as that if Continuance were a proper Note of the Church then as none could be the Church but which had continued and did still continue so what-so-ever did continue behooved to bee the Church which you see were extreamlie absurd For Heaven and Earth continue to this day Satan continueth a Liar and a Murtherer from the beginning and his Children continue Liars and Murtherers lyke their Father and the evill Seed continueth even amidst the good Seede in the Lord 's owne Fielde till the last day of separation So as if with anie probable shew your man would had CONTINVANCE counted a concluding Marke of the Church hee should haue added there-to this Modification That what companie hath continued in the true Fayth and Worship of CHRIST that is His true Church But then if hee should assume that the Church of Rome hath onlie continued in the true Fayth and lawfull Worship of CHRIST wee will denye it as extreamlie false and tell him that hee continueth impudent to assume the Question And thus you may perceiue Philomathes that your man's most lykelie Marks yet are no proper Markes till they bee modified by that one and onelie demonstratiue and truelie discretiue Marke which at first I layde downe vnto you Philomathes But Eubulus you must not escape vs at so cheape a rate For even vpon CONTINVANCE a common accident as you call it I will establish our man's conclusion for the Church of Rome You will confesse that the Church of CHRIST hath continued al-wayes since her first beginning and must al-wayes continue till her LORD'S returne so as shee can never fall away absolutelie from His Light and Lyfe Eubulus This I heartilie yeelde you Philomathes You will yeelde mee this also That no companie can be sayd to continue in the Trueth Light and Lyfe of CHRIST which continueth not in anie profession of His Name or worship there-of at all For to vse your owne comparison al-be-it Colour and Stature will not conclude of the thing coloured and quantified that it is a man yet this will bee a sure Position That what hath neyther Colour nor Stature at all it can bee no man Eubulus This I yeelde you also but where-vpon you may see that your conclusion shall bee but negatiue to exclude vpon defects not affirmatiue to argue vpon demonstratiue Markes Philomathes Then advert how I will even affirmatiuelie conclude for the Church of Rome That Companie hath onlie cōtinued in the true Light and Lyfe of CHRIST and so is His Church which onelie of all others hath retayned HIS Name or anie Worship there-of But for manie Ages the Church of Rome hath onlie of all Companies in the Worlde retayned the Name of CHRIST or anie Worship there-of There-fore the Church of Rome hath onlie continued in the true Light and Lyfe of CHRIST and so onlie is His true Church Eriphilus You finde perhaps Eubulus that our Syllogismes are poynted also Eubulus I will presentlie prooue what eyther Poynt or Edge it hath and how piercing so-ever you presume it to bee Eriphilus yet make it to bee found as phlegmaticke as you are cholericke Of your Syllogisme then Philomathes where-by you conclude no thing to Romes advantage if any other Churches may bee shewed to haue continued in anie Profession or Worship of the Name of CHRIST I grant the Proposition to bee true for no question but that onlie with-in the compasse of the visible Church and vnder the common Ensigne of Profession the true Church and all true Christians are and haue continued al-wayes And as where-ever the Ensigne is and the Name of CHRIST professed how corruptedlie so-ever it bee in common yet there possiblie yea probablie I durst say assuredlie are some true though weake Christians So where that Name is not at all named nor anie worship there-of there no Church can bee sayde to bee at all Your Assumption is both false and deceitfull And to shew it evidentlie to bee such if I should but oppose to you the Aethiopian and Indian Churches which haue continued and not onelie without anie Communion but al-most without anie knowledge of the Church of Rome what could you finde to say against these Instances but I will bee so indulgent vnto you as not to vrge them on you I will other-wayes sufficientlie so discover the deceit of your Assumption as the falsehood of it may bee clearlie seene for it contayneth a double fallacie one in the name of the Church of Rome the other in that which is affirmed of it For if by the Church of Rome bee vnderstood the whole bodie of the visible Church on which for some Ages by craft and ambitious vsurpation of Antichrist in-throned in the Temple the Character Name or Number of the Beast were imposed in common how-so-ever thousands ever were in that communitie who rejecting and detesting them retained the Name of the Lambe His Father and Character there-of and were of the 144000 sealed ones and manie who in simplicitie received the Name or Number of the Beast yet never received his Character Then sophisticallie and deceitfullie you reason from the accressing Sore and Gangrene in the bodie and of which Sore the name is but improperlie and tyrannicallie imposed on the bodie to the bodie affected there-with When wee pleade agaynst the Church of Rome wee pleade not against that bodie absolutelie where-in that evill was and that so farre obtaining as it named the bodie after it selfe while the Church of GOD dwelt even where Satan's Throne was but wee pleade agaynst the evill in but not of the bodie not agaynst all who were called the Romane Church or Papists or were counted of that number But agaynst Papalitie or Antichristianisme Not agaynst all who were thorow common Contagion perhaps lightlie touched or taynted with the Evill But agaynst the Characterized companie Antichrist his mancipated Slaues and in whom the pestilent Evill had eaten vp all true lyfe and sense So as in this Case for arrogating anie poynt to the Mischiefe which wee oppugne to oppose vnto vs the common bodie even heavilie affected and in common over-gone with it it is no lesse absurd sophistication than if one should confound the Dropsie Iaundies or Gangrene in the Bodie with the Bodie in which they are and drawe Conclusions from the one to the other If all the Bodie were the Evill then were there no Bodie But even a sicke Bodie is yet a Bodie and how-so-ever so affected in common and no part appeareth to be fullie free but that the Sore possesseth all yet so long as the Bodie liveth and mooveth performing naturall Functions it evinceth
but first in health healthsom vigour next by degrees contracting sicknes at length heavilie infected affected afflicted with that disease whereof you Eriphilus are dangerously sick Philomathes hath somwhat tasted also now is convalescing through the Medicine of the Word Spirit and alyke in all these cases was ever is visible seen also according to her distinct conditions in diverse tymes Neyther haue wee another Church or a new Church as your Doctors would perswade the Simple but the same Church a renewed Church Neither haue we forsaken the Vnitie Cōmunion of the Church within which wherof we stil are but we haue forsaken Babel in the Church which hath ◅firmed her selfe agaynst al Cure For howsoever the sicke Bodie was the Church yet the Sicknesse oppugning and wasting the lyfe there-of was never the Church and al-be-it in it yet never of it Now Eriphilus you see I am farre from dallying and am come to more playne Dealing than perhaps well pleaseth you Philomathes Verilie Eubulus I can not denye but your Reasons are sound and solide and your Distinctions are subtill But it seemeth exceeding strange that anie such Case and so long a tyme should haue befallen the Church of GOD which maketh mee yet to suspect that your Argumentes are more out of subtiltie of Logicke than according to the Veritie of the Matter and that how-so-ever they evince indeede clearlie a Possibilitie of such a Case yet that anie such Case in trueth was they will not conclude And it were a rash Conception so to thinke of holie Church So that according as I sayde before you seeme still to reason but A posse ad esse from Possibilitie to Reall existence which will not necessarilie follow Eubulus I confesse Philomathes that the Case is and will seeme strange to anie not acquaynted with the cleare course of Scripture and the LORD His wyse and wonderfull Dispensation clearlie fore-tolde there-in and fallen out accordinglie For the workes of GOD are wonderfull and Hee is marvelous in the Case of His Saynctes As great is the Mysterie of Godlinesse so al-so is that of Iniquitie And without true illumination to know the Scriptures of GOD none ever shall attayne eyther to the healthsome Knowledge of the one or happie Discoverie of the other But Philomathes seeing you confesse That I haue clearlie evinced the Possibilitie of such Apostasie in the Church as where-by Errour may take place in common and that yet not-with-standing GOD may verie well preserue Trueth and true and lawfull Worship and Worshippers al-be-it in common vnperceived and considering the manie and capitall Poyntes where-with so manie famous Churches now so long tyme charge your Church of Rome I aske you If in this Case you thinke her well defended with the pretended Impossibilitie of Erring Or if shee hath not great reason both to suspect what possiblie might befall her and carefullie to descende to an exact Tryall whether it hath so befallen her or not Philomathes Certaynlie I thinke the weyght of so great Poyntes as are in Controversie to-gether with the Challenge of so manie Churches requyre no lesse than that Matters bee condignlie tryed and examined and that a prowde Denyall will not justifie anie in such a Case Eubulus Well Philomathes and in so clearlie evinced a Possibilitie of Apostasie as requyreth a condigne Tryall whether thinke you is it the surest way to put the stable Trueth of GOD revealed in His Worde to this inaequitable and vnsure Condition as eyther to approoue it selfe by the Multitude and Continuance of Holders who yet may erre or then to bee rejected Or rather to laye for a sure Ground That seeing it is Trueth there-fore it ought to subdue all Myndes and take place agaynst all Praejudices of Praescription Praerogatiue of Holders Tymes Places or Persons Because it dependeth not on the vnstable Humours of Men who are but naturallie Liars and may bee deceived But is in it selfe so cleare as beeing admitted purelie to pleade for it selfe it will sufficientlie approoue and justifie it selfe agaynst all howe stronglie so-ever grounded Errour and all eyther Qualitie or Multitude of Mayntayners or Praescription of Tyme In short Philomathes whether ought the Trueth of GOD to bee subject to Men or ought all Men to bee subject vnto it And which of these two Reasons conclude strongest and on which may a Christian Soule best rest This hath long had place and Approbation with most Men and there-fore is the Trueth Or this is GOD His Trueth there-fore it ought to haue place even agaynst all praejudice what-so-ever And how-so-ever it hath appeared to haue beene perished from amongst Men yet certaynlie it hath remayned all-wayes Philomathes Verilie I can not denye but that it were a sacrilegious remeritie to subject the Trueth of GOD to Man al-be-it agayne in the Question what is that Trueth I thinke the judgement of the Church and what hath long bene held of Her should be much regarded and not rejected without great and verie cleare Reasons Eubulus That I yeeld you Philomathes and truelie if in the present Poynt of our Disputation we had or could bring no more but as you alleadged the Possibilitie of the case where-of no Evidence might bee produced that accordinglie it had fallen out And if my Reasons and Distinctions in this Matter were but from quirkes of Logicke and not according to clearelie-fore-tolde and accordinglie fallen-out Events you had the lesse reason to regard them But besides the Possibilitie which I haue evinced besides the vndoubted Trueth it selfe so clearlie delivered in Scripture as may sufficientlie certifie a Soule that accordinglie the Case hath fallen The holie Ghost for our farder Resolution hath also according to both the Possibilitie and the event in effect agreeable so clearlie fore-tolde the whole particular Case and Course as I may boldlie say to whom it appeareth strange They are yet great Strangers in the written Word of GOD and in such great measure of Light as now in GOD'S singular Mercie is revealed who disdayne to learne what even Artificers in such open and large offer of Grace are holden to know they are worthilie blynded in GOD'S just indignation Wee are not onlie fore-warned by the LORD Him-selfe in the dayes of His flesh and agreeablie there-after by the Apostle Paul of such a common Apostasie in the Church as where-by Antichrist should obtayne a Throne even in the Temple of GOD but also most amplie particularlie and delightfullie vnder most goodlie and significant Types in the Booke of the Revelation the whole course of Storie is plainlie and at length expressed So as Philomathes I haue not alleadged what probablie might be but what the holie GHOST hath playnlie and particulie fore-tolde and fore-warned vs should come to passe and which accordinglie wee see clearlie performed Yo◅ Men are deceived because they knowe neyther the ◅criptures nor the Power of GOD. And I am so farre from seeking subtill Evasions in
we are still vnited and will be yet more more nearlie our Concord in GOD and His Trueth growing as your Vnitie in Evill shall be broken off the will of GOD being fulfilled in all the worke of Antichrist's deceit justlie vpon the Worlde for contempt of His Trueth And thus Philomathes your Assumption where-by you denye vs anie such Vnitie as of necessitie is requyred in the Church of CHRIST for keeping justlie that Account is false And no lesse false is it al-so in that what you would robbe vs of you doe appropriate to Rome which can not bee truelie praysed for anie Vnitie except that which before I mentioned out of the seaventeenth Chapter of the REVELATION which is the onlie Vnitie proper vnto her and accordinglie there fore-tolde of her For other-wayes shee hath fallen away foulie both from the Head and the Foundation and can never bee sayde to haue keeped Vnitie with the true Bodie other-wayes than the accressing Sore or Apostume in the Bodie but not of it may bee sayde to bee one with the Bodie And your Man bewrayeth verie well howe poorelie provyded hee is of anie sure probation of his Vnitie when for all Argument where-by to evince an Vnion in one LORD one Fayth one Hope one Baptisme and one true and sanctifying Spirit hee is not ashamed impudentlie to take that which is the verie mayne poynt in question Whither I pray you did his Poëticke Furie transport him when without blushing to sustayne his Assumption on which all the lyfe of his Cause depended hee brought this onlie and goodlie Argument That Church onlie keepeth Vnitie in all poynts which cleaveth to the Pope But the Church of Rome onelie cleaveth to the Pope There-fore the Church of Rome onlie keepeth Vnitie in all poynts The Proposition of this his Demonstration he prooveth by this That the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heavē were given to Peter But the Pope is Peter's Successour Ergo doe you requyre mee Philomathes to make anie aunswere to these your Man his Raveries Or if hee had beene set of verie purpose to play the Praevaricator in the Cause which hee pleadeth could hee more ridiculouslie I will not say haue reasoned but raved Wee neyther deny nor envy your Church her Vnitie with the Pope al-be-it in christian Compassion wee pittie it But wee deny your Mischiefe to haue anie Vnion eyther with the Head Foundation or Bodie except as a Sore in it but not of it And to cleare yet farder the falsehood of your Man's mayne Assumption of Vnitie That the Church of Rome keepeth Vnitie in all poynts and how vayne hee is in vaunting there-of if your Poet had as carefullie picked out the Partialities of his Romish Church even in this their damnable and cursed conspiracie as hee hath with a perverse mynde and poysonable Eye pryed in our Distractions What great matter of Insulting hath hee or anie of his profession against our Churches for any Division betwixt vs and these whom they doe call LVTHERIANS If he were as powerfull a Peace-maker as he prooveth an impertinent Pratler he might haue found at Home to worke vpon not only great Dissentions but even as bitter and materiall Digladiations as anie is amongst vs. When al our Controversie amongst our selues about the manner of Presence and participation of CHRIST in the sacred Supper is duelie weighed what shall bee found there-in comparable to the manyfolde Debates amongst your Schoolemen about the manner of their prodigious TRANSSVBSTANTIATION whence as from an horrible Hydra so manie monstruouslie diverse Heads haue sprung vp in their Schooles as never will bee reconciled till Fyre from Heaven burne vp all that intoxicated Bodie When your Poët shall put at one the Scotists and Thomists the Franciscanes and Domicians the Schoole-men and the Canonists their other Clergie and the Iesuists when Blacke-well and Bellarmine shall accord vpon that mayne Poynt of the Pope's Supremacie which to belieue and that both In temporalibus spiritualibus is de necessitate salutis that is Necessarie to Salvation sayeth the one partie then might hee with the more credite praesume to taxe our Distractions Loripedem rectus derideat Aethiopem albus Now then your Man's Proposition of his mayne Syllogisme of VNITIE beeing sophisticall and his Assumption clearlie false he will hardlie I trow vpon such Antecedents conclude well that the Church of Rome is the onlie true Church of CHRIST Philadelphus You haue admitted the Church of Rome an VNITIE but such as where-in they haue neyther anie matter of Glorying and are but even scarse well vnited in that same sacrilegious Societie Who are vnited onlie but in Evill And scarselie well are in that same compacted Lesse may they glorie than their Guyde the Devill Whose Kingdome is not in it selfe distracted Killers and Rogues are in a Course contracted That Concord onlie comes to bee commended When vncorrupt Companions vncoacted For Trueth and truelie are to-gether bended In Unitie which is not thus defyned Fiends Robbers Killers may bee close combyned Philomathes As Eubulus in doing his best to take from our Poët the prayse of a deepe Divine so I perceiue Philadelphus that you mynde not to permit him the Monopolie of the MVSES But now it resteth to speake of the Note of HOLINESSE and I much muze Eubulus if as of all the former so you will affirme of this al-so That it is no proper Marke For I am sure that to nothing vnder Heaven doeth the propertie of HOLINESSE conveane but to the Church of CHRIST onlie And agayne according to the Law you alleadged of Propers that what-so-ever Men are holie they must bee of the Church of CHRIST for Holinesse becommeth His House Philadelphus The Prophet ELISHA beeing consulted by great Personages and vpon great Poynts called for a Minstrell And mine Advyse were Eubulus before you aunswere to this Marke of HOLINESSE that even for refreshing of our Spirites a little 〈◊〉 heare their Man's Melodie vpon that poynt Eriphilus As your Myndes are mistuned you may perhaps finde your selues nor greatlie cheared there-with For how-so-ever Eubulus lyke a slipperie Eele by subtilties of Distinctions hath slidden thorow all our preceeding Marks yet as Philomathes hath rightlie sayde I hope HOLYNESSE is such a sure one as you can not deny except you would once and in this one Poynt prooue true Men even to professe your selues a prophane Companie Eubulus What-so-ever a propertie wee shall finde HOLINESSE to bee yet Eriphilus I take bitter Passion to bee no proper Poynt of it And therefore what-so-ever your Man's Musicke might worke in vs yet shall it not incontinentlie come praesentlie in place for mitigating of your owne Cholericke Motions by some greater Sympathie which perhaps it shall finde in you than it can waken vp in our as you call them mistuned Myndes Therefore Philomathes bring out your Cure quicklie for succouring of your Companion Philomathes In-deede the consideration of HOLINESSE would requyre a calme Constitution And these are our Man's Verses there-of
CHRIST should not haue continued and continued visible There-fore thinges affirmed by you can not consist with the promise of CHRIST made to His Church and her Condition accordinglie and consequentlie you are Haeretickes Thus having as hee thinketh set vs aside from anie Interest in the Title of CHRIST'S Church next vpon a ground confessed by vs but miserable mistaken by him hee buildeth a Conclusion for the second part of his mayne Assumption which concerneth the Church of Rome thus To giue lawfull Ordination to Pastors is competent onlie to the Church of CHRIST But you Protestantes acknowledge That the Ordination given by the Church of Rome was lawfull Ordination There-fore the Church of Rome must bee the Church of CHRIST Doe you not now perceiue Philomathes whither your Man's meaning tendeth by all this his great Squadron of Interrogatours with the multitude where-of hee would in a Musicall Moode over-whelme vs Philomathes I now perceiue it well anough you haue reduced all to so cleare and compendious a forme And graunting the Major of his mayne Argument you denyed his Minor And first that part there-of which vpon the Defectes layde agaynst you hee assumed of your Churches For Probation where-of I must confesse that no-thing is brought by him in his second Syllogisme but the all-readie disputed poyntes of Continuance and Visibilitie Where-of you haue sayde â—…o much as wee can not goodlie requyre anie more of you So that except it please you to aunswere vnto his last and appearinglie insoluble Objection agaynst you grounded on your owne Graunt of lawfull Ordination by the Church of Rome I thinke for mee there resteth no other poynt vndiscussed of all our matter Eubulus Of his Objection of lawfull Calling by the Church of Rome and all that hee can possiblie build thereon I shall GOD willing eyther pay him or prooue him al-readie payed more than aboundantlie And al-be-it I haue before al-so spoken of the other poynts yet for more clearing whether hee better prooveth or I deny his mayne Assumption let vs take a short view of his Interrogatours Philomathes Then saye to them and wee will heare gladlie Thus they are You say your Fayth did appeare For the first sixe hundreth yeare But tell mee if thou can When Papistrie first began Eubulus Wee affirme that our Fayth which is the onlie true Fayth hath appeared not sixe hundreth onlie but now all-most sixeteene hundreth yeares though not in alyke evidence at all tymes or to all persones and though not al-wayes perceived even of them to whome it appeared For as the Smoake of the bottomlesse Pitte by degrees prevayled so was true Light the lesse and of the lesser number perceived And yet even in the height of that Evill when a Throne was erected to Satan in the Temple of GOD and Antichrist obtayned not onlie the Court of the Temple but al-so all the holie Citie there were Candle-stickes still in the Temple and good numbers of Sealed Ones following the Lambe on Mount Syon while all the miscarried Earth followed the Beast although none could heare or learne their Song but themselues who in that common Apostasie were bought from the Earth to be the true Citizens of Heaven al-be-it in the Earth yet not of it Now what tyme Poperie did first begin what Man is hee that needeth to make anie question who readeth Paul affirming plainly that the Mysterie of Iniquitie was even then begun to worke or who readeth Iohn avouching that Antichrist was even then in the World That the first beginninges and subtill Insinuation were not commonlie marked it was the LORD His wyse Dispensation and Satan's deepe Deceit for other-wayes it had beene no Mysterie Doeth not the LORD Him-selfe teach vs in Parable That the envyous one did sowe his Tares even with the good Seede in the LORD His owne Fielde and that so covertlie and subtillie whyle the Servauntes were sleeping that all-bee-it mixed with the good Seede and waxing in the midst there-of yet it is not espyed vntill by different Stalke Flowre and Eare it bewray whose Hand did scatter it so as the verie Servants al-be-it by tyme they see it growing and waxing and discerne it to bee adulterous yet they can not tell howe by whome nor what tyme it was sowne And shall Tares I pray you bee counted good Wheat except the moment and first Sower there-of bee showne Your Man doteth and deceiveth in reasoning Sophisticallie from Poperie in the first Seede to Poperie begotten and even from Poperie begotten in the first subtill Insinuation and cunninglie-covered beginninges to Poperie borne and brought foorth and from Poperie even brought foorth but yet still masked vnder fayre and plausible Pretences and swedled vp in the Clouts of GOD His Children to Poperie at length kything openlie Teeth Hornes and Clawes so bewraying evidentlie vvhose Broode it was all-bee-it long and fraudfullie fostered in the midst of GOD His owne House Satan was long in all Subtiltie and deepe Deceit a-bringing out of that Monster as the last and greatest Master-stich of all his Policie and Power and much and darke tyme behooved to bee allotted to the begetting of that great Hercules of the infernall Iupiter First in the Seede Next in the Egge vvhence Satan long and sedulouslie sitting there-on at length hatched out a Serpent which became by tyme a fyrie flying Dragon For the Beast arose out of the Earth slowlie and insensiblie not as that Tages repente doctus in ipso nascendi Articulo You may reade if you list Philomathes a more large Answere to this same vayne Question sent to my selfe by one of your side in my Discoverie of his Dotage there-in Philomathes I will GOD willing reade it But what say you to this VVhere were the Servantes of the LORD That none of them durst speake a word To defende the knowne Trueth c. Eubulus They were even where Satan's Throne was and all-bee-it tollerating spirituall Fornication for which the LORD had some-thing agaynst them yet keeping the NAME of GOD them-selues and informing others in the true knowledge there-of they were in the Temple whyle Antichrist trode downe the Court there-of and the holie Citie and powerfullie dispensing there-in both Light and Grace to true Christians and having Vengeance in readinesse agaynst their Enemies they were in the VVildernesse both fedde and feeding others They were on Mount Syon with the Lambe both worshipping purelie them-selues and leading others there-in though none eyther heard or learned their Song but the sealed Virgines whyle the Beast miscarried all the Earth to commit spirituall Fornication Thus they were all-wayes and both spake the Trueth and for the Trueth But the blynde and stupified Sectatours of the Beast neyther saw nor heard them For howe soone the Beast of the bottomlesse Pitte perceived them then was The Patience of the Saynctes and then Blessed were the Dead which died in the LORD then lay they vnburied in the Streetes of that
CHAPTER VII HOLYNESSE THIS you say in verie deede When you rehearse the Nicene Creede One Church Catholicke Holie and Apostolicke This is another Marke truelie The Church must bee holie Holie Men holie Service Ceremonies and Sacrifice Sacramentes and holie Dayes Are observed in her al-wayes As for the Sayncts and Martyres all And Virgines which you Saynctes doe call Whose Names are in your Kalendar When lived they and where In what Religion was it they died By whom were they Canonized If it were not the Church of Rome Then shall I bee converted soone If they were not your Companie Then is your Fayth an Haeresie Philadelphus I am against both your Wish and Expectation Eriphilus so farre cheared with your man's Poësie as if it may not trouble your cheare I would aske even chearfullie of you why hee hath passed by the Apostolicke Creede which with some more credite hee might haue cited and where-in hee might haue found al-so the propertie of HOLYNESSE to alleadge the Nicene for if hee thought that this word Apostolicke would haue marred his Metre by making his Lyne a foot longer yet the shortnesse of his immediatelie subsequent verses might haue recompensed that slippe neyther hath hee beene in the rest of this Ryme so squimmish as to stand too praeciselie on footes or halfe footes Eubulus Wee will let this passe Philadelphus for as I protested before I am not to insist in taxing all his absurdities no not in the Matter much lesse in his Metre which is lesse materiall I come to speake of this Marke of Holinesse and before I enter to examine the Man's Logicke I will yeelde this much That this once hee hath fallen on a true Propertie of the Church of CHRIST yea and I will grant thus much more That al-be-it all properties be not Marks because more is requyred for being a proper Marke than onlie to bee a proper Attribute yet that Holinesse is even a proper Marke of CHRIST His Church but where-in the Church of Rome hath as litle and lesse advantage than in anie of the former And for clearing of this Philomathes I must first put out your Man from the Lurking-denne of Aequivocation where-in your Doctours delight to lye and thence to shoote at the Innocent in secret For if by Holinesse bee meaned that sanctified Disposition of the Soule and Affections by the Spirit of Regeneration wrought in all true Christians in that Sense it can bee no Marke because GOD onlie knoweth the Hearts of Men. And wee concluded before with consent of Bellarmine That all Markes must of necessitie fall vnder Sense And agayne if by Holynesse bee meaned that which is seene and exposed to perception in Mens outward carriage according to the Law of Righteousnesse in Manners and common conversation neyther thus can it be a proper Marke of CHRIST HIS true Church For that by the restrayning Vertue of GOD HIS Spirite of Administration even Heathen men and Infideles will appeare in all morall Vertues matcheable to Christians except that wee know that what-so-ever is not of Fayth is sinne Was not Paul vnrebukeable as concerning the Law while yet hee was not onlie no Believer but even a cruell Persecuter al-so Philomathes How-so-ever outward Righteousnesse may not bee a sure Marke of Men considered absolutelie for that fayre carriage which by the restrayning Vertue of the Spirit of Administration will bee even in Heathen men yet as you did in short wordes make answere to your selfe that what is not of Fayth is sinne and that there-fore no Heathen conversation how approoved so-ever can be counted for true Holynesse So amongst Professours of Christianitie I thinke that Holynesse in lyfe and manners must bee a most sure discerning Mark wherby to know the true Church as which must in them bee praesumed to proceede of Fayth And wee are a-searching of such Notes as in the communitie of Christians all acclayming the Title of the Church may discerne the Vpright from the Bastard in that same kynde So as your Objection of Heathen carriage in this case is clearlie the same Sophisme which you may remember that before you taxed in our Men. Eubulus Doe you not knowe Philomathes that even amongst Professoures not only will Hypocrites in all these Outwardes appeare to goe farre beyonde even the moste sincere and single-hearted Christians but even superstitious and corrupt vvorshippers yet in a blynde zeale vvill seeme to keepe more preciselie the vvaye of HOLINESSE and RIGHTEOVSNESSE than who haue more and truer Light And if no more were to leade you to knowe that HOLINESSE in this kynde can bee no Marke this alone might tell it you That your owne Men all-wayes in their Disputes with vs about the true Church Doctrine and Worship doe reject and that justlie all Argumentes brought by vs agaynst anie persons or personall actions of Men. How-so-ever agayne in charging vs they doe forget them-selues so farre as all-wayes to fall to personall and those impudentlie false and vnjust Criminations So as you may see that of necessitie this Marke of HOLINESSE must bee vnderstoode of an holie and lawfull Worship and holie and pure Doctrine And al-be-it I confesse that this can never bee anie-where but that there-with al-so shall bee some number of Names both inwardlie sanctified by the Worde and Spirite and al-so showing foorth their Fayth by their workes yet it is the HOLINESSE of Doctrine and lawfull and pure Worship which is the proper Marke of the true Church and not eyther the inward Sanctification of the Soule which we see not or the onlie outward Manners where-in wee may bee deceived of your Man's Argument I will nowe set it before you that you may see the Force there-of That Companie which onlie hath in it holie Men holie Service Ceremonies Sacrifice Sacraments Dayes c. must bee the Church of GOD. But in the Church of Rome onelie these are to bee found There-fore the Church of Rome is the onelie Church of GOD. Now to grant his Proposition or Major in such Sense as where-in I haue all-readie cleared and you all-so Philomathes haue confessed That onlie it can consist I denye his Assumption or Minor as which is shameleslie false except by the onelie sure and layde-downe Rule hee prooue it Philadelphus You must attende Eubulus the Probation of his Assumption in the next Proper Ballad that happeneth to breake out of the Super-aboundance of his Poēticall Veyne and suspende his Conclusion till then And that in the tyme hee may the more seriouslie set himselfe for it what if from his owne Groundes where-of hee glorieth one should drawe this contrarie Conclusion That Companie which hath turned all the Worship of GOD Who will bee worshipped in Spirit and Trueth in a prophane Histrionicke Farce which teacheth for Doctrines the Traditions of Men ' which burdeneth the Consciences of Christians whom their Lord will haue to be free saith Augustine with innumerable ydle superstitious Ceremonies of Mans inventiō in the multitude whereof all
true Religion is not onlie buried but al-so lost Which after that perfect Sacrifice which CHRIST offered once for all offereth still Expiatorie Sacrifices for Sinne Which devyseth Sacramentes of their owne which they haue not received from the LORD Which superstitiouslie keepe Dayes and Tymes Which set vp Saynctes departed and erect Images to bee worshipped with Religious Adoration Who glorying of Fathers and Martyres are them-selues Persecuters and Murderers of the Sayncts That Companie can not bee the Church of CHRIST but is vndoubtedlie The Antichristian Synagogue But such is the Church of Rome There-fore the Church of Rome is not the true Church of CHRIST but is The Antichristian Synagogue Now as your Man 's stout Asseveration of holie Service Ceremonies Sacrifice Sacraments Dayes c. will not exeeme your Church from the Stayne of this Conclusion except you try verifie them to be such by that onlie Touch-stone which in anie case you desyre never to bee touched so will his vayne Acclaiming of all the Sayncts Martyres and Virgines contayned in our Kalendar and the pretended canonizing of them much lesse helpe him What they haue beene who are contayned in our Kalendar wee are not much curious to inquyre because wee holde it not for a Register of Sayncts but for a civill Rule where-by to calculate Tymes And I praesume that Ianus Iulius and Augustus are none of the number written in Heaven as perhaps no more are some others vvho are written in the Kalendar vvhose Names yet in civill vse may serue fitlie for Notes of Tymes And I thinke verilie your Poet hath lost both the Yeare of GOD and Dominicall Letter al-so when hee is prooving Religion from the Kalendar which wee esteemed ever should bee cleared from Scripture And hee hath dipped his Mynde so deepelie in this Studie as hee asketh when and where they lived But foolish Man it is neyther the ryme when nor the place where anie Man eyther liveth or dieth that maketh him a Christian. But that third thing in his Question which onlie for all except to multiplie Babling hee should haue asked namelie in what Fayth they lived and died And then wee answere That if they were Saynctes indeede they both lived and died in the same Fayth which wee holde and were even of our Companie which Companie is not defined by Tyme when or place where but by the vnion of what-so-ever persones in what-so-ever place and of what-so-ever tyme in one LORD one Fayth one Spirit on Baptisme c. for all Sayncts are sanctified by the Trueth and Thy Word is Trueth sayeth our Saviour And giving this that all these Sayncts had beene not onlie in the Companie of the Church of Rome then but also that they had beene of her Companie for manie even now are in her Companie which are not of it Come out of her my People sayeth the Spirit and holding one and the same Fayth which Rome at that tyme helde yet as Eubulus hath now more than once tolde you What will anie Prayse or Praerogatiue of Rome then make for Rome now which is not now of the Companie of Rome then but is the Synagogue of Satan where-as Rome of olde was of our Companie Eriphilus What Philadelphus will you make those whom the Church of Rome hath Canonized to bee of your Companie they were Canonized I tell you may Ages before Luther was borne Philadelphus Of their Canonizing Eriphilus I will not now much dispute whether it was farther eyther to their honour who were so Canonized or to theirs who sacrilegiouslie praesume to rob GOD of His proper Honour in making Sayncts or to the reproach and disgrace of both I am certaine that whom GOD hath sanctified hee is and will bee a Saynct though the Pope and all the Conclaue had concluded the contrarie and whom GOD hath not sanctified no power in the Worlde can make holie I say that in this your glorying of Canonizing Saynctes you haue as valide an Argument for the Church of Rome as the building of the Prophets Tombes and garnishing of their Sepulchres was for the Iewes whose Fathers were Murderers of the Prophets and them-selues crucifiers of the LORD of Glorie And our Fayth Eriphilus was not borne with Luther no more than your Heresie was borne with you but our Fayth is the same Fayth where-by all Faythfull in all Ages and Places ever lived as yours is that same deceitfull Illusion which even in the Apostolicke tymes Satan was a-hatching and which having by slow degrees mounted to so monstrous an height is now agayne neare the dead-trach to the Devil 's great displeasure Philomathes If EUBULUS and I shall giue over to you PHILADELPHUS and to ERIPHILUS the reasoning of this Matter I feare wee must provyde vs some-where of long Weapons to goe betwixt you so Satyricke are you and so Cholericke is ERIPHILUS Philadelphus Verilie Philomathes I mynde not to free Eubulus of that Taske where-of hee can much better acquyte him-selfe than I am able and if Eriphilus take my Counsell hee shall beholde you all-so to pleade your part And it is not so much anie Satyricke Speaches of myne as it pleaseth you to call them which haue marred Eriphilus Mirth as Eubulus sad Syllogismes vvhereby hee hath so sacked all your Poët his proper Markes as how-so-ever at first rejecting my Sonnets hee summoned vs to Syllogismes yet I perceiue him now so surfeyted with them that in a compassion of his Cholericke Passion I will yet vouchsafe him one Sonnet to swadge it where-in hee shall not challenge one Satyricke Syllable Catholicke can not bee to Sense subdued Continuance is but a common Case Things Visible are often-times vnviewed What 's Unitie if it bee not in Grace Hypocrisie some-tyme â—…surpes the place Of Holynesse if true Light bee not Leader Who Flesh for Spirit who Shades for Sooth embrace The more devote more doting they 'r and deader Would'st thou stand stay'd ' gaynst all both Doubts Dangers Follow CHRIST'S Voyce and flee the voyce of Strangers Philomathes I knowe not howe your Sonnet hath wrought on Eriphilus mynde but verilie you haue made your worde good in this That in all your Sonnet there is not one Sarcasticke Syllable all-be-it it bee so full of Sentence as you haue compryzed in a short Summe the Drift of all Eubulus Discourse agaynst our Man's Markes But nowe both the Day and the Way are shortening and wee haue yet one Poynt to passe thorowe namelie of HAERETICKES You haue beene so difficill Eubulus to graunt vs the Title of the true Church and haue so farre set at naught all our Notes as I would gladlie heare how you will cleare your owne Churches from this imputation of HAERESIE which our Man heere at great length layeth agaynst you Eubulus If hee could haue prooved his power in anie thing hee would chiefelie haue imployed it for the credite of his owne Church and Cause Where-in if hee had prevayled hee should with one and the same travell haue