great Citie which spirituallie is called Sodome and Aegypt and then the VVhoore was drunken with the Blood of Saynctes and the Beast became whollie of the Dragon's Colour Nowe where vpon this That no opposition was made by them your Man concludeth That there-fore none at all were I pray you Philomathes what kynde of Logicke doe you account it Because in Spayne and Italie no open opposition is made to Poperie are there there-fore no Protestant eyther Pastours or Professours in those partes The future Ages might perhaps bee induced to thinke so because that so the Storie of the Tyme may carrie no-thing beeing recorded but what in common obtayneth in the Tyme But wee who nowe liue would laugh him to heading as an impudent or senselesse Liar who would but denye that even in Rome are hundreths who holde the Pope to bee Antichrist And howe great encowragement so-ever our too great Lenitie giveth them of kything yet would they bee contented that their numbers amongst vs were esteemed but according to their open and advowed opposition When the golden Calfe was set vp in the Wildernesse and that by so common an Apostasie as that Aaron was carryed away with the violent Streame of that Evill it might appeare that none had beene there for the LORD or free of that common Guiltinesse and yet thousands did kythe in the convenient tyme of challenge Were there none true eyther Prophets or Professours in Israel the yeares of Elias lurking And yet who spake publicklie for the Trueth Did not even Elias thinke that all were gone when yet there were an hundreth Prophets in one Caue and seaven thousand true Professours in one and the same Kingdome Shall Tolleration speciallie in perilous tymes conclude approbation of what is tollerated in all the Tolleraters there-of Doeth not Augustine acknowledge in his tyme where-in the Mysterie of Iniquitie was not so farre advanced but that Trueth still obtayned some place in common that for regarde of the CHVRCHES peace they were compelled to tollerate manie thinges which other-wayes they vtterlie mislyked Attour in your Man's Objection is another ridiculous Fallacie by confounding the diverse and distinct tymes and accordinglie the diverse and distinct degrees of growth of that Apostasie in the course of tyme and not distinguishing accordinglie the diverse sortes and degrees of Opponers and of opposition therevnto No Age since the Apostolicke tymes wanted its owne opposition and Opponers according to the degree of Evill all-though they came not to that last and highest degree to which the open discoverie of the Evill in the toppe of all importable and vncurable Impietie did force Men. Loue is ever loath to cast off till all hope bee past And sober Men some-tymes in a laudable judgement some-tymes agayne in weaknesse will even choose often in a prevayling Iniquitie rather to lurke and keepe themselues cleane than with perilous Contestation eyther to disturbe the CHVRCHES Peace or object them-selues to desperate Daungers Which not-with-standing when they perceiue that vvithout playne perill of all Christianitie and imputation to them-selues of betraying the Gospell Peace can no more bee keeped will then rather contest with all hazard than tollerate a clearlie-discovered and a desperatelie-pernicious Mischiefe Shall a Thiefe bee counted no Thiefe but from the tyme of his open Endytement Or shall the first beginninges of injurious Vsurpation on the one part and an vndoubted and cleare Right on the other be reckoned onlie from the first publick poynts of Litiscontestation A Man disposed to Peace will long beare and patientlie expect Reparation of Wronges and even comport with manie injurious Encroachmentes vpon hope that Reason and gentle Admonition will bring the Partie to doe him measure VVho not-with-standing at last perceiving his Adversaries waywardnesse and daylie progresse in wrong doing will then intende playne Action agaynst him for his Right Nowe shall the vsurping and injurious Partie haue in this anie reason where-by eyther to justifie him-selfe or eschew Reparation of all his by-gone Wronges and vsurpation because they were never till then challenged in that manner and degree You may see more heere-of in my TREATISE of our CALLINGES and COMMENTARIE on the REVELATION Philomathes Well let vs goe on Did Saynct Peter's Fayth fayle Eubulus No but if it had what should haue followed there-vpon vnto the Church more than vpon the fall of Iudas What a ridiculous Question is this as if on the standing or falling of anie one Man or what-so-ever number of Men did hang the fall or stabilitie of the Church which is builded neyther on Man nor Men but on that immooueable Rocke which can not fall Yet your Bellarmine confesseth That though the Pope should fall away from Trueth yet the Church should not there-fore fayle Philomathes You who are so quicke a Carper of Aequivocations fall now to the same Play which you reprooue so often in our Poet. For by Peter's Fayth hee doeth not meane that Spirituall Vertue where-with Peter was endewed there-by apprehending CHRIST to Salvation as you would perhaps descrybe it but that Doctrine of Fayth which Peter professed and taught Eubulus Then Philomathes the playing with Aequivocations shal be still your Poet's part for the Lord prayed for the stabilitie of Peter's particular fayth where-of Satan sought to sift him which remayning steadfast was his Victorie in that his Temptation as I haue before signified And if your Man will haue it permitted vnto him by Poeticall Licence agaynst the LORD'S mynde to wrest Scripture and to intitle thus the Doctrine of Fayth yet why is it called Peter's faith more than am 's or Iohn's And why would not your Poet rather according to Scripture speach cal it the Faith of our LORD IESVS CHRIST But in what-so-ever sense giving him that the Fall or Standing of the Church had depended whollie on the fayling or stabilitie of Peter's Fayth could that Fayth bee no other-wayes preserved but in the Church of Rome And shall the fall of Rome conclude that Peter's Fayth and consequentlie CHRIST'S Church is fallen To make this Conclusion infallible your Man must bring a better Argument than a vayne vaunt of a bare personall Succession while in the tyme they are fallen away from Peter's Fayth to the fayth of Simon Magus Philomathes Did the Gates of Hell prevayle Eubulus No but they did so farre assayle and with such successe in GOD His just judgement and wyse permisssion as Satan obtayned a Throne even in the Temple of GOD. Philomathes Did the Salt lose its Savour Eubulus It did so farre lose its Savour in common and such as should haue beene the Salt of the Earth became so vnsavourie that they could serue for nothing but to bee cast out and trodden vnder foot Cast out the Court which is with-out the Temple and mete it not c. yet ever still the LORD had Ministers so seasoned with the Spirit of Light and Grace as they were al-wayes Candle-stickes and Oliues to
even by a deceitfull confounding of what-so-ever poyntes of Trueth and what-so-ever degrees of Division or Dissention which must bee wyselie and carefullie distinguished For there bee manie poynts of Trueth wherein diversitie of judgement breaketh not the Vnitie of the Church Yea and manie Divisions and Dissentions which yet divyde not the dissenting Members one from another or if one from another yet neyther of them from the Head or common Bodie from which those onlie may bee sayde absolutelie to fall which holde not the Head or subvert directlie and with pertinacie the Foundation For manie in weaknesse will holde Opinions which in-deede doe even choppe agaynst the Foundation by cleare and necessarie Consequence but not immediatelie or directlie So as if you should challenge the Holders of that which their opinion doth import they wil not only deny it but evē abhorre the sequele of that which they mayntayne but not with that mynde And it were great want of Charitie to judge a-lyke of these and of the others Wee are all heere still compassed with Infirmitie knowing but in part and prophecying but in part In which Case the Apostle charitablie advyseth That Who are perfect they bee so mynded and if anie bee other-wayes mynded that the LORD will reveale it vnto them but that in the tyme in that where-to wee are come wee ought to proceede by one Rule mynding the same thinges I confesse manie hundreths doe regrate it with Teares That the Infirmitie of Mens myndes too farre in selfe-wiening wedded to their owne Sense and not humblie receiving Information or charitablie comporting with weake Brethren according to the Apostle's Rule both hath bred and still breedeth too manie bitter and vnnecessarie Distractions and scandalous Schismes about such thinges as if Humilitie and Loue had over-ruled Mens Affections neyther were nor are of such Moment where-fore the Vnitie of Men holding still one and the same Head and keeping one and the same Foundation should bee so lightlie broken or the Peace of GOD His House troubled But the weaknesse and not duelie-mortified Humours of Men maketh not the Trueth of GOD to fayle That Dissentions and Divisions are it declareth Men to bee yet in that part carnall but it doeth not separate them from the common Bodie so long as they holde one and the same LORD one Fayth one Hope one Baptisme and are vnited in one and the same Spirit no more than did this Defect in the Church of Corinth which al-be-it that heere-fore the Apostle did rebuke as carnall in that yet hee still did intitle with the Name of CHRIST His Church And though by anie such Schisme eyther a Person or Companie should bee divided from particular eyther Church or Churches it will not therefore follow I thinke none dare avouch it that there-fore they are separated from the Head or common Bodie so to make them in a-lyke Case with haereticall Subverters of the Foundation and Deserters of the Head Wee see by Experience in naturall Bodies That by inflicted Woundes such Gaps will bee made as the sides of the Wound eyther from other will start a-sunder and so one part of the Bodie by a separating Wound will be severed from another part which both will yet remayne still vnited in the common Bodie and bee part-takers of one and the same common Sense Motion and Lyfe from one and the same Head and Heart Thus Philomathes your Poet's Proposition absolutelie affirmed is false even when hee hath modified his indefinite All Poynts to all Poynts of Trueth Philomathes That no Vnitie argueth anie Companie to bee CHRIST'S Church but Vnitie in Trueth I must needs confesse it and that everie diversitie of opinion or everie degree of Distraction doth not separate the dissenters or distracted mutuallie from other or at least eyther of them from the common Bodie and Head I cannot denye but that you haue evinced it clearlie Yet so manie and so materiall are the Divisions amongst your Churches and your Quarrels are debated so bitterlie and againe so great is the Harmonie and Concord of the Romish Church as I thinke giveth just Reason to suspect of you that you are not nor can not bee vnited as you spake in one and the same LORD Fayth Hope Baptisme and Spirit and that the Church of Rome hath onlie and evidentlie this Honour Eubulus Now Philomathes you put the Lyfe of your Syllogisme in the Hands of your Assumption to stand or fall there-with And denying vs anie such Vnitie as may argue a Church of CHRIST you haue appropriated all to Rome how justlie we will even now examine and first your Objection against vs is manie wayes sophisticall First if such bee accounted ours who are none of vs the imputation is vnjust Wee acknowledge and doe lament it that there is too great Division and varietie of Sects calling themselues Christians in the worlde but what doe most part of them more or so much concerne vs as they concerne your Church of Rome out of whose dongue as noysome Flees they are bred and by Satan's craft comming to fly on vpon our Churches that by the mixture of their Poyson they may bring the Trueth in disgrace are onlie by vs diligentlie resisted and their Errours clearlie convinced while in the meane tyme your Romish Church whose brood they are is carelesse of anie thing but to suppresse the Trueth and calumniouslie to lay over on vs the Stinke of their owne Excrements As for such whom we will not disadvow in common how-so-ever wee will not justifie the Ambition Giddinesse and bitternesse of some particular Men who as fyre-brands disturbe humurouslie and vnnecessarilie the Peace of the Church I affirme that no such materiall Poynts are in differ betwixt vs in common wherefore wee both may not and ought not embrace others mutuallie as Brethren Which that wee doe not it is our weaknesse and the malicious worke of but a few evil-inspired Instruments seeking more their owne Estimation than GOD his Glorie and good of His Church And that no such Separation is betwixt vs but that how-so-ever by a cruell Wound of mercilesse Hands wee are separated one of vs from another yet wee are still joyned in the common Head and in the common Bodie each of vs to other So as your Man 's odious enumeration of Protestants Puritanes Calvinists Zwinglians and if you list to adde to them Lutheranes also is but a calumnious traducing of such as most part are not separated eyther from other or at least how-so-ever by some weaknesse they bee in that sort distracted yet are but one Bodie joyned in one and the same LORD Fayth Hope Baptisme and informed all of them by one and the same Spirit al-be-it not all in a-lyke measure Amongst whom there is no just breach of Communion how-so-ever that by a Wound of some cruell and dispitefull Men those you doe call Lutherians are vnnecessarilie separated from the rest but none of vs from the common Head and Bodie in which
true Religion is not onlie buried but al-so lost Which after that perfect Sacrifice which CHRIST offered once for all offereth still Expiatorie Sacrifices for Sinne Which devyseth Sacramentes of their owne which they haue not received from the LORD Which superstitiouslie keepe Dayes and Tymes Which set vp Saynctes departed and erect Images to bee worshipped with Religious Adoration Who glorying of Fathers and Martyres are them-selues Persecuters and Murderers of the Sayncts That Companie can not bee the Church of CHRIST but is vndoubtedlie The Antichristian Synagogue But such is the Church of Rome There-fore the Church of Rome is not the true Church of CHRIST but is The Antichristian Synagogue Now as your Man 's stout Asseveration of holie Service Ceremonies Sacrifice Sacraments Dayes c. will not exeeme your Church from the Stayne of this Conclusion except you try verifie them to be such by that onlie Touch-stone which in anie case you desyre never to bee touched so will his vayne Acclaiming of all the Sayncts Martyres and Virgines contayned in our Kalendar and the pretended canonizing of them much lesse helpe him What they haue beene who are contayned in our Kalendar wee are not much curious to inquyre because wee holde it not for a Register of Sayncts but for a civill Rule where-by to calculate Tymes And I praesume that Ianus Iulius and Augustus are none of the number written in Heaven as perhaps no more are some others vvho are written in the Kalendar vvhose Names yet in civill vse may serue fitlie for Notes of Tymes And I thinke verilie your Poet hath lost both the Yeare of GOD and Dominicall Letter al-so when hee is prooving Religion from the Kalendar which wee esteemed ever should bee cleared from Scripture And hee hath dipped his Mynde so deepelie in this Studie as hee asketh when and where they lived But foolish Man it is neyther the ryme when nor the place where anie Man eyther liveth or dieth that maketh him a Christian. But that third thing in his Question which onlie for all except to multiplie Babling hee should haue asked namelie in what Fayth they lived and died And then wee answere That if they were Saynctes indeede they both lived and died in the same Fayth which wee holde and were even of our Companie which Companie is not defined by Tyme when or place where but by the vnion of what-so-ever persones in what-so-ever place and of what-so-ever tyme in one LORD one Fayth one Spirit on Baptisme c. for all Sayncts are sanctified by the Trueth and Thy Word is Trueth sayeth our Saviour And giving this that all these Sayncts had beene not onlie in the Companie of the Church of Rome then but also that they had beene of her Companie for manie even now are in her Companie which are not of it Come out of her my People sayeth the Spirit and holding one and the same Fayth which Rome at that tyme helde yet as Eubulus hath now more than once tolde you What will anie Prayse or Praerogatiue of Rome then make for Rome now which is not now of the Companie of Rome then but is the Synagogue of Satan where-as Rome of olde was of our Companie Eriphilus What Philadelphus will you make those whom the Church of Rome hath Canonized to bee of your Companie they were Canonized I tell you may Ages before Luther was borne Philadelphus Of their Canonizing Eriphilus I will not now much dispute whether it was farther eyther to their honour who were so Canonized or to theirs who sacrilegiouslie praesume to rob GOD of His proper Honour in making Sayncts or to the reproach and disgrace of both I am certaine that whom GOD hath sanctified hee is and will bee a Saynct though the Pope and all the Conclaue had concluded the contrarie and whom GOD hath not sanctified no power in the Worlde can make holie I say that in this your glorying of Canonizing Saynctes you haue as valide an Argument for the Church of Rome as the building of the Prophets Tombes and garnishing of their Sepulchres was for the Iewes whose Fathers were Murderers of the Prophets and them-selues crucifiers of the LORD of Glorie And our Fayth Eriphilus was not borne with Luther no more than your Heresie was borne with you but our Fayth is the same Fayth where-by all Faythfull in all Ages and Places ever lived as yours is that same deceitfull Illusion which even in the Apostolicke tymes Satan was a-hatching and which having by slow degrees mounted to so monstrous an height is now agayne neare the dead-trach to the Devil 's great displeasure Philomathes If EUBULUS and I shall giue over to you PHILADELPHUS and to ERIPHILUS the reasoning of this Matter I feare wee must provyde vs some-where of long Weapons to goe betwixt you so Satyricke are you and so Cholericke is ERIPHILUS Philadelphus Verilie Philomathes I mynde not to free Eubulus of that Taske where-of hee can much better acquyte him-selfe than I am able and if Eriphilus take my Counsell hee shall beholde you all-so to pleade your part And it is not so much anie Satyricke Speaches of myne as it pleaseth you to call them which haue marred Eriphilus Mirth as Eubulus sad Syllogismes vvhereby hee hath so sacked all your Poët his proper Markes as how-so-ever at first rejecting my Sonnets hee summoned vs to Syllogismes yet I perceiue him now so surfeyted with them that in a compassion of his Cholericke Passion I will yet vouchsafe him one Sonnet to swadge it where-in hee shall not challenge one Satyricke Syllable Catholicke can not bee to Sense subdued Continuance is but a common Case Things Visible are often-times vnviewed What 's Unitie if it bee not in Grace Hypocrisie some-tyme â—…surpes the place Of Holynesse if true Light bee not Leader Who Flesh for Spirit who Shades for Sooth embrace The more devote more doting they 'r and deader Would'st thou stand stay'd ' gaynst all both Doubts Dangers Follow CHRIST'S Voyce and flee the voyce of Strangers Philomathes I knowe not howe your Sonnet hath wrought on Eriphilus mynde but verilie you haue made your worde good in this That in all your Sonnet there is not one Sarcasticke Syllable all-be-it it bee so full of Sentence as you haue compryzed in a short Summe the Drift of all Eubulus Discourse agaynst our Man's Markes But nowe both the Day and the Way are shortening and wee haue yet one Poynt to passe thorowe namelie of HAERETICKES You haue beene so difficill Eubulus to graunt vs the Title of the true Church and haue so farre set at naught all our Notes as I would gladlie heare how you will cleare your owne Churches from this imputation of HAERESIE which our Man heere at great length layeth agaynst you Eubulus If hee could haue prooved his power in anie thing hee would chiefelie haue imployed it for the credite of his owne Church and Cause Where-in if hee had prevayled hee should with one and the same travell haue
your Proposition in your last declared Sense to be true But then I say of your Assumption No Church hath remayned visible but the Church of Rome that it hath the same fallacie in it which I opened and refelled at length in the same Assumption of Continuance For if by the Church of Rome you meane the cōmon bodie of the whole visible Church albeit even affected with the over-going Evill on which for more effectual deceit tyrannicallie the name of the beast sitting there-in was by him imposed then is your Assumption sophisticallie deceitfull in reasoning A dici from So called ad esse to So is and concluding from the Bodie absolutelie to the Gangrene or Sore in it or contrary-wayes from the Evill in the Bodie to the Bodie affected there-with in common but not vniversallie as before I showed And vpon your Assumption thus vnderstood your Conclusion will not follow But if by the Church of Rome your Assumption meaneth the Evill and Sore agaynst which onlie it is that wee pleade and not agaynst the common Bodie where-of wee are then is it manifestlie false and so your Conclusion fayleth Philomathes But except you cleare to mee how in that Bodie besides that which you doe call the over-going Sore there were some visible partes brooking Health and that visiblie I must still thinke that your subtill Distinction of the Bodie from the Sore is but vayne For I pray you for manie Ages who were seene or knowne to haue anie differing Profession or to haue resisted and condemned the Church of Rome Eubulus Now consider Philomathes how aequitablie you requyre that of mee For first How-so-ever it may be easilie seene and showne in a Bodie but contracting a Disease whyle as yet all Members are not much infected or affected there-with or agayne in a Bodie convalescing whyle eyther all the Bodie is al-most freed from the Sicknesse or at least the strongest and noblest partes haue expelled the Disease al-be-it perhaps the D◅egges there-of rest a space in the extremities of Handes or Feete and keepe them swollen Yet Philomathes it shall bee hardlie showne in a Bodie in the prevayling height and mayne Fit of the Sicknesse when it hath so farre obtayned as all parts of that Bodie in common are eyther infected or at least heavilie affected yea and even much afflicted there-by so as no part can bee separablie showne brooking a-part perfect health without eyther Infection or Affection And yet even in such a Case a Skilfull man beholding and considering will perceiue evidentlie that it is a living al-be-it a sick Bodie yea that such Strength of naturall Vigour yet remayneth there-in al-be-it no-where vnaffected which both resisteth the wasting Disease even in the verie Paroxisme and in ende by prevailing vitall power helpe of right Medicine expelleth it For as in such a Bodie if no remnant were of vitall Vigour all Sense and Motion should be quyte extinguished So in a Bodie totallie affected afflicted al-be-it not vniversallie infected it were a monstrous vnnatural thing in such a Case to see anie part of the Bodie a-part no-thing affected al-be-it there will even in that Bodie be parts not infected where-in as in a citadle lyfe health residing they frō thence both fight against the over-going Evill at last become victorious over it Of the Church of Sardis it it said That having a name that she lived yet she was dead not-with-standing is exhorted to strengthen the parts which remayned and were readie to die And even in this miserable Case the LORD witnesseth That even there Hee had a few names which had not defiled their garments these yet stil lived in the cōmuniō of that same Church were not known by any visible separation frō the rest of that Bodie For separation is neither requisite nor lawfull till all hope of Cure be past And thus neither were the faithfull ones vnder Antichristian tyrannie till after long tolleration much heavinesse for the waxing Evill at last labouring to haue cured it they were cruelly murdered lay barbarously vnburied insolentlie mocked in the streetes of Babell which neither would nor could be cured And then leaving her as a burnt Mountayne being by divine warrand commanded to Come vp hither they did separate themselues not frō the Church but frō the Contagions and incurable Evill in the Church but not of it For wee would faine haue cured Babell but shee would not Next Philomathes how-so-ever lightened men each in their owne times even in most desperate state condition both might and did see some pure remnant which were well knowne to the godly then yet how absurdlie is anie account of them required of succeeding Ages to whose knowledge through repressing and suppressing tyrannie of such as disposed of all Records at their pleasure nothing did come but what obtained commonlie in that tyme In despite of all which not-with-standing so much testimonie hath remained as may satisfie and certifie anie vpright mynde That still Trueth was in the Church in all Ages had its owne Assertours al-be-it not all in a lyke degree of contestation even in most corrupt tymes as the Gatalogues of them drawne vp by our Men for meeting this your Objection make manifest if you please with an vnpartiall Heart to reade them More-over heere agayne Philomathes you stumble at a double Deceit in the word VISIBLE in that not onlie you conclude That what-so-ever is visible is al-so seene but there-with al-so vpon no open resisting you inferre no being most absurdlie All men know that from Tolleration to Approbation you can never stablish a Conclusion Manie will and for manie Respects tollerate that which they are so farre from approoving as they will vtterlie abhorre it And to keepe our former similitude how manie haue you seene subject to great and dangerous Diseases and having their Bodies repleat with vicious Humours who yet whyle they could retayne anie reasonable condition of Health would not adventure to mooue the Bodie by expelling with perilous Medicaments the nociue Humours The Church of Pergamus tollerated what shee neyther approoved nor communicated there-with but lurked even where Satan's Throne was keeping the Name of GOD who knew her Dwelling and Case Physicians come not to Burning and Cutting till the Evill bee not onelie desperate but al-so that the Lyfe of the Bodie is in danger there-by Your Romish Evill Philomathes did growe on slowlie and by Degrees and came not to the toppe of Impietie at once so as the Degrees of Contestation in difference of tyme and diverse degrees of a waxing Evill behooved to bee much diverse And neyther could the Case admit or was it the LORD His will that Contestation should bee in the highest degree till the Impietie came to the highest though even in the Growth and subtill Successe of that Mysterie of Iniquitie manie both mislyked it and mourned for it keeping them-selues the Name of GOD and vttering in their owne
tymes not obscure Signes of their Miscontentment The other Poynt where-in you are deceived and which in the first rowme I propounded is That vpon Visibilitie you conclude Sight But manie thinges and manie tymes will bee visible which yet are not al-wayes seene Doeth not Experience teach vs howe hardlie one Man will bee found out amōgst a thousand evē by such as do both know him and search after him how long then may hee lurke vnseene of such as neyther know him nor thinke of him And in the midst of so great Repressing and Suppressing Tyrannie what marvell though they were in common vnseene as not onelie beeing few but forced also to lurke and by GOD His Gracious Providence covered from their Enemies furie This beguyleth you Philomathes that you account no worship eyther to bee at all or to bee visible but which is separatelie openlie and avowedlie practized in the common view of all men Which manifolde Experience and cleare Scripture teacheth vs to bee an absurd Conception and which Case neyther that course of tyme and of the Evill by GOD His permission waxing and obtayning in it could suffer and which in the wyse purpose of GOD His admirable Dispensation was neyther needfull nor expedient Eriphilus Did I not devine rightlie Eubulus to what pintches this Poynt would dryue you When all is done what doe you but vanish away in your Invisibilitie giving vs a Church by miere imagination A Church invisiblie visible and visiblie invisible Are you not ashamed so to dallie Our Church was al-wayes visible say you but it was not seene and I pray you what a visible Church is that which none doeth see Eubulus Ajax transported with furie Eriphilus did slay manie sakelesse Sow in stead of Vlysses And you are now in great chafe with your owne Shadow I did not say neyther ever mynded I to say That none did see our Church but I justlie taxed a false Conclusion led from VISIBILITIE to common and continuall seeing For manie thinges are visible which yet neyther are in common nor al-wayes seene And this maketh not our Church invisiblie visible but it sheweth him who will deny it to bee visiblie blynde I acknowledge That how-so-ever Antichristian Darknesse hath over-gone the whole Church in common yet that ever still with-in the compasse of that Vsurpation vnder the common Ensigne were numbers of true and lawfull Worshippers and a true and lawfull Worship which were al-wayes visible by the Ensigne and common Bodie as whyte is visible in the rucke and heape how-so-ever covered with the over-going Chaffe or Strae till the Fanner come and purge the Floore And to come yet more neare Eriphilus I say That they were not onlie visible in this sort but al-so in their persons and practise of pure Worship and that they were seene al-so al-be-it not in common perceived For manie thinges will bee both visible and seene al-so which yet will escape perception even of the Seers Yea which you will yet perhaps more admire I affirme That they were not onlie visible and seene but perceived al-so though not in common nor of the blynded worldlie sort which was the LORD His Providence for their preservation but only of their sealed Brethren who were brought from the Earth and being spirituall Virgines onlie got Eyes to see and perceiue and Eares to heare and vnderstand that sweet and high-tuned Song which the Beast's stupified Sectators could neyther heare nor learne Now then though I affirme and that justlie That from Visibilitie one may not conclude of seeing neither from seeing may one conclude of perceiving neyther from both seeing and perceiving of seeing and perceiving in common yet I deny not but freelie and truelie affirme That our Church was all-wayes visible seene and perceived but not of such as had no Eyes Doe you not know that manie thinges may bee visible which yet through the blyndnesse of beholders are not seene yea and manie things are seene which even the seers through mis-regard or over-vayling mist or GOD in justice benumming their Senses yet will not take vp nor perceiue which yet the illuminated will both see and perceiue clearlie To reason then from Visibilitie to common sight or from Visibilitie and common sight to conclude common Perception or to conclude of what is not seene or perceived in common That it is not seene or perceived at all yea is not visible yea is not at all it is such a dead kynde of Argumentation Eriphilus as where-in all your choler will never kindle the lyfe of good Logicke Howe manie Papistes and howe much Popish worship is and that visible within this YLAND which yet is not seene in common or perceived Yea Eriphilus though I bee visible and you doe al-so both see and heare mee yet you neyther perceiue nor vnderstand mee How manie things will be lying even hard by vs yea before our Eyes which yet will wee not a long tyme perceiue though sedulouslie seeking after them I aske you Eriphilus was not Lot were not his Guestes the Angels in their condition at that tyme were not his Wyfe and Daughters was not his House and the Gates there-of visible Eriphilus Doeth it agree with your pretended Gravitie to aske of mee such scornfull Questions Eubulus That you may see howe I doe verie pertinentlie and seriouslie aske this of you I tell you That howe visible so-ever they were yet they escaped the perception of all SODOME even greedilie groaping after them The Sunne was visible yea clearlie both seene and shyning in GOSHEN when not-with-standing in all AEGYPT was palpable Darknesse And what wonder then though that great Citie which spirituallie is called Sodome and Aegypt did not see or perceiue what yet was visible seene and shyning in the midst of her And what marvell that they are still so blynde as not to perceiue howe these former thinges in GOD His purpose were Stampes of the lyke but greater Cases to fall out there-after Was eyther ELISHA or SAMARIA or the Region thorow which the ARAMITES were led there-fore eyther invisible or not seene of them because GOD syled their Eyes that seeing yet they should not perceiue But Eriphilus to be yet more playne and to come even close to your hand As before I cleared how the Church continued al-wayes al-be-it not al-wayes in one and the same Condition so I tell you now That the Church was ever and in all Ages visible how-so-ever not al-wayes in a-lyke measure of Health and Spirituall Vigour which is your Mens grosse Fallacie A Man even brought to bed with sicknesse is no les visible than when he walked abroad in perfect health albeit neither seen of so many nor so healthfull as before Your men are ridiculous in asking incessantlie where our Church was before Luther wheras the Church now the Church in Luther's dayes the Church before his days even vpward to the infancie therof is was still one the same Church always visible