you once denie it For where you affirme that certaine Sacrifices of the Iewes set foorth those sufferings of Christs soule which you meane and I vtterly denied that any sacrifices of the Iewes did shew the suffering of hell paines in Christs soule or any other kind of death besides the death of the body only you take not the paines to make any proofe of that you aâ—…rme but stand in your state and say you deny my assumption As if the negatiue being mine and the affirmatiue yours you were not by all rules of Râ—…ason to prooue your aâ—…atiue and it sufficed me to stand on the negatiue till you made iust proofe of the contrary Here you will say you doe bring proofe for your assertion Here indeed you spend three leaues in talking of it as your manner is howbeit your word is here as throughout your writings the best warrant you offer vs for this cause But let vs heare your examples and proofes First that sacrifice consisting of two goats a slaine and a scape-goat You obiect heere against first that I abuse the Text. That were a great fault but let vs view the Text. Against your instance of the Scape-goat figuring as you would haue it the suffeâ—…ings of Christs soule I made three exceptions First that the Scripture did not call the Scape-goat a Sacrifice for sinne Secondly that no proofe was or could be made that the Scapegoat signified the soule of Christ Thirdly that if both those were granted which were no way proued the Scape-goat suffering nothing but being let loose into the wildernesse did rather inferre that Christes soule was freed from all such sufferings as you would force vpon it To the last which is the chiefest you take the paines to say little and so giue the Reader to vnderstand that your bolde assertion is the best foundation of your proofe for if you can not shew as you neither doe nor can that the Scape-goat by the Scriptures suffered any thing how will you bring it about that the Scape-goat figured the sufferings of Christes soule shall no suffering be a figure of suffering such may your figures be but the wisdome of God maketh figures for similitude and resemblance to the trueth and not for contrarietie to it as you do The chiefest point then you cleane slide from and take holde on some words in Moses text about which you thinke you may wrangle with some more likelihood The verie expresse wâ—…rds of the text you say are these Aaron shall take of the people two goats for a sinne offering And verie good reason must I bring to frustrate so plâ—… a speech I am farre from bringing any thing to frustrate the Scriptures but if the Scripture expresse it selfe I preferre that before your misapplying the words to your will Aaron shal take of the congregation of the children of Israel two goats for sinne So stand the words if you will needs appeale precisely to the text Here is a taking of two goats and an intent for sinne declared in generall but the particular maner of vsing and ordering either of them according to Gods appointment followeth in distinct and direct wâ—…ds Aaron shall take the two goats and make them stand before the Lord at the doore of the Tabernacle And Aaron shall giue lots vpon both goats one lot for the Lord and another for the Scape-goat And Aaron shall make the goat on which the lâ—… fell for the Lord to draw neere and shall make him reddie or sacrifice him for sinne For here is AASA'HV added which in the Scriptures vsually signifieth to make readie a Sacrifice And he shall kill the goat that is for sinne for the people and bring his bloud within the vaiâ—…e In as plaine words as the former be or any can be that goat on which the lot fell for the Lord must be made readie that is sacrificed for sinne of which he spake at first and that which was the peoples sinne-offering must be slaine and his blood brought within the vaile But neither of these agree to the Scape-goat therefore the Scape-goat was not the sinne offering for the people which the Scripture in that place mentioneth These words you say proue not that the Scape-goat was no sinne-offering at all These particular circumstances doe plainly proue which of the two goats was made the peoples sinne-offering and so conuince that you inlargc the words of Moses without any iust ground to serue your owne conceit Two sinne-offerings were not taken from the people but two goats were taken for sinne and one of them sacrificed for the people as was after prescribed and performed and Aaron commanded for him and his house to offer a bullocke for his sinne-offering So that where the Scripture mentioneth no moe sinne-offerings for the people but one neither vseth the word AASA but to one of them that one was prepared and slaine by Gods commandement as a sinne-offering for the people where the Scape-goat was preserued aliue and sent away into the wildernesse to shew the force of the former sacrifice by carying with it the sinnes of the people I take a sacrifice and offering in the largest sense as signifying any consecrated thing giuen to God to appease him for sinne And such vnbloudie sinne-offerings very manie we shall finde in Moses Law Wherefore the Scape-goat may be a sinne-offering though it were not slaine or bloudie That the word Sacrifice may be diuersly taken and applied to things vnbloudie and ghostly I haue no doubt but that one and the same word in one and the same place should import both a bloudie and vnbloudie sacrifice for sinne is a shift of yours without all sense it hath no shew in the sacred Scriptures Againe the sacrifices for sinne were they bloudie or vnbloudie which are mentioned in Moses law and namely in all those places which you quote in your margin they were all without exception OFFERED to God by FIRE the things liuing suffered first death by effusion of bloud the things without life as flowre oyle wine and such like were cast into the fire where the bloudie sacrifices were burned and so without bloud or fire no sacrifice for sinne is appointed in Moses law Since then the Scape-goat was neither slaine nor touched with fire but sent forth aliue into the wildernesse what do those examples of things vnbloudie yet offered by fire helpe you to proue that the Scape-goat liuing was such a sinne offering as many are found in Moses law Can there be any thing in the world more full and strong to prooue that the Scape-goat also was a true sinne-offering or rather a true part of this whole and entire sinne-offering consisting and being compleat in both these goats the slaine and the Scape-goat For as the slaine so the Scape-goat we see was CONSECRATED to the Lord and here OFFERED to make reconciliation by him and separated from men and barâ—… vpon him all the sinnes of the
raging lustes and vntamed affections as he did in Cain Saul Achitophel Iudas and dayly doth in all the wicked In the outward punishments of this life where God turneth the furie and violence of his creatures to reuenge sinne and the seruice of men Angels and deuils to pursue the wicked to their destruction and to chastise his owne to their conuersion the hand of God doth euery where appeare by the Scriptures but that is nothing to your immediate suffering of the soule For first in them God vseth his creatures as his agents and instruments and where his immediate hand may happily be conceaued to worke without meanes there he punisheth the soule by the bodie which by your owne position is not the proper and immediate suffering of the soule In the feare shame and griefe which the soule here conceaueth vpon the denouncing conuicting or beholding of her owne vncleannesse and the terrible iudgements of God against sinne the power trueth and iustice of God are euident but not that immediate hand of God which you imagine For in this case God punisheth the soule by her selfe that is by her intellectiue or sensitiue faculties letting her plainely perceiue what ioy is lost and what vengeance is prouided for all the workers of wickednesse The losse of which blisse and terrour of which vengeance apprehended by outward sense or inward intelligence cannot but mightily grieue and afflict the soule And the greater the losse that is irreuocable as also the soarer the mischiefe that is ineuitable the deeper is the wound that either of them make in the heart of man But this feare and griefe whiles here men liue proceede from the cogitation and perswasion of the minde and conscience and not from the immediate hand of God And in the world to come the horrour of hell and rage of fire which God hath ordained to punish the soule shall inflict an intollerable torment not rising from the minds and wils of the wicked as in this world it doth but impressed by an externall and violent agent which is the meanes that God hath prepared to execute vengeance on men and deuils How beit in none of all these appeareth that immediate suffering of the soule from the hand of God alone which you so much talke of and to which you would so faine subiect the soule of Christ to make him suffer the substance of that which the damned according to your dreame doe feele in hell For in your conceit of the soules immediate suffering from the hand of God the soule must onely be a patient and no agent and God must inflict the paine on the soule with his owne hand and not by any meanes without or within the soule onely the soule must feele and discerne the present and inherent paine by her passiue power and facultie by which she is capable of all paine whence soeuer or howsoeuer it commeth This kind of suffering you euery where affirme you no where prooue and that which is most absurd you presume against the cleare words of the holy Ghost continually naming the fire of hell and threatning the wicked with it to allegorize the Scriptures at your pleasure and in stead of fire which God hath ordained and armed as a most dreadfull meanes to take vengeance of sinne you suppose a certaine paine which God with his immediate hand will inflict on the soules of the damned and that you make the substance of hell paines and fasten it to the soule of Christ for the time before he could worke our redemption or suffer the punishment of our sinnes But sir Discourser this is rather dreaming then debating of matters of faith to allegorize whatsoeuer standeth in your way and in stead thereof to imagine what you please without either proofe or pretence out of the word of God as if your mouth were the rule of Religion or the trueth of God would vanish by your fantasticall figures and shadowes Wherefore leaue your deuising and auouching what best liketh your vnquiet humour in so weightie matters of mans Redemption and tye your tongue if not your heart to the wordes of the holy Ghost that at least you may beare the shew if not the sense of a Christian man For I vtterly denie that God is either the immediate tormentour of soules in hell which is your idle and absurd imagination or that with his immediate hand God did torment the soule of his Sonne at any time here on earth as the soules of the damned are tormented in hell which is your witlesse and wicked assertion For proofe you produce the words of â—…say affirming of Christ that the Lord layed vpon him the punishment of vs all but in this as your maner is you hit neither the words nor the meaning of the Prophet The word is HAAVAH to be crooked or to go aâ—…rie and so by translation signifieth the crookednesse oâ—… wickednesse of mans life which the Prophet testifieth was layd vpon Christ in saying the Lord layd vpon him the iniquitie of vs all But grant it may sometimes by the ioyning of other words import anie punishment allotted to wickednesse doth the Prophet say that God layed all the punishment due to sinne vpon Christ or that God layed it vpon the soule of Christ both which you inferre out of the Prophets words though neither be there expressed or thence to be concluded S. Peter will tell you on what part of Christ God layd our sinnes euen on his bodie Himselfe bare our sinnes saith Peter in his bodie on the tree Now where Christ did beare them there God did lay them Christ bare them in his bodie as Peter affirmeth God therefore layd our sinnes on his bodie that by suffering death on the Crosse which was the wages of sinne Christ might make the purgation of our sinnes in his owne person Againe the sense which you would sowe to the Prophets words that God layd vpon him all our punishment that is as you would haue it all the punishment which we should haue suffered is false and wicked For so Christ must haue suffered reiection desperation and eternall damnation which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene redeemed If you meane no more than the Scripture intendeth that what Christ suffered for vs in the bodie of his flesh on the Crosse was the full redemption and satisfaction for all our sinnes then are you wide from concluding out of these words that Christ suffered the paines of hell or the full vengeance due to our sinne by the immediate hand of God which is the chiefe point that you aime at This is all the proofe you offer out of the Scriptures for the immediate suffering of the soule of Christ from the hand of God and what sturdie stuffe this is the rudest reader that lighteth on your pamphlet of Defence will soone conceiue If you keepe this course in the rest of your positions the world will soone be wearie of your new-found fansies if
person onely but also in his members Then first you be slipt from your former resolutio deliuered in your Treatise which is no strange thing in your writings There your words were I take it to be cleare the Apostle HERE SPEAKETH NOT of the personall sufferings of Christ but of the godly You there denie that Paul speaketh of Christs personall sufferings but of the godly Here you affirme hee speaketh of both and least you should seeme to diuide them you adde Paul doth here ioyntly together vnderstand by Christs crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall bodie both head and members A large and long Crosse of Christ that conteineth not onely his owne death and passion and whatsoeuer persecution he suffered in his life time but ioyntly together all the asflictions of the godly from the beginning of the world to the end I will not aske you where you find or how you proue Christs crosse to be so vsed in the Scriptures you that take vpon you to frame new Redemptions new hels and new heauens to your fansie will not sticke to frame a new Crosse of Christ without any Scripture howbeit know this all wise will beware of such expositions as haue neither example nor ground in the word of God For though our Sauiour sometimes said If any will come after me let him denie himselfe and take vp his Crosse and follow me yet he neuer said let him take vp my Crosse and follow mee and Paul who often vseth the word Crosse without addition many times the Crosse of Christ neuer taketh it in all his Epistles for the afflictions of the godly but onely for the spitefull and shamefull death which Christ in his owne person suffered on the Crosse. So that howsoeuer euery Christian may be said to take or beare his Crosse the Scriptures no where apply the Crosse of Christ but only to the force and fruit of Christes death suffered on the Crosse for vs and our saluation which is the sense that I affirme Saint Paul here intended But the markes afflictions and DYING OF THE LORD IESVS are vsed in this and other places of the Scripture to signifie the afflictions of the godly Those places haue speciall wordes adioyned which can not bee referred to the person of Christ but must of force belong to the speaker or sufferer As I beare IN MY BODY the markes of the Lord Iesus saith Paul and againe I fulfill the rest of the afflictions of Christ IN MY FLESH And so we beare about IN OUR BODIE the dying of the Lord Iesus Where these words in my bodie and in my flesh are proper to the speaker and no way deriueable to the person of Christ. Wherefore the markes afflictions and dying of the Lord must either import a resemblance to the personall sufferings of Christ or demonstrate the cause for which the Apostle suffered which was for Christs sake and in this is no difficultie to suffer affliction in like manner as Christ did or to suffer it for Christs cause But the Crosse of Christ whereof the Apostle speaketh in my Text was that at which the Iewes were so greatly offended for which the true preachers were so sharpely persecuted to which the false teachers ioyned circumcision for the better attayning of saluation in which the godly most reioyced and by which the faithfull were crucified to the world and the world to them and all these are proper to the personall death and crosse of Christ as he was the Sauiour of the world and not common to the afflictions of the Saints It was a question of doctrine not of manners for which the Apostle so much striued and the highest point of mans redemption not of mans perfection in which he so much gloried For touching other mens miseries how should Paul reioyce in them or how should he by them be crucified to the world and the world to him He had good cause to reioyce in the death of Christ though it were neuer so much maligned and pursued by the Iewes because it was the wisedome and power of God to saue all that beleeued and in his owne troubles for Christes quarrell hee might reioyce as hauing thereby fellowship with Christs afflictions and made conformable to his death but to reioyce at other mens troubles that hath no warrant in the word of God Reioyce saith Paul with them that reioyce and weepe with them that weepe Wee may take comfort and giue God thankes that the faithfull haue grace to endure persecution with patience and courage but that affliction befalleth them we may not be glad For that is to reioyce at other mens harmes which is repugnant to the rule of charitie Neither could Paul be crucified to the world by other mens troubles long before dead or then vnborne examples might encourage the weake but Paul was strong and proposed himselfe as a paterne of patience suffering persecution And therefore this haling into the Crosse of Christ the afflictions of all the godly that euer were or shall be as if the Apostle so highly reioyced in them and were crucified to the world by them is wholy against the haire and hath neither dependence nor coherence with the Apostles words Besides you doe not or will not vnderstand the maine point here in question betwixt the Apostle and those false teachers of the Iewes whom he reprooueth and refuteth in this Epistle You say indeede It is manifest the Apostle here Gala. 6. v. 12. reprooueth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine because they were loth to taste persecution but you neither tell vs what the Gospell was which they thus mingled with circumcision nor why they feared persecution nor from whom which things if you would haue specified as the Scriptures deliuer them you should soone haue perceiued how properly the Apostle addeth for the Crosse of Christ and how rightly I referred these words to the force and fruite of Christs death which is the summe and substance of the Gospell What the Gospel was which Paul preached appeareth plainly by his owne words We preach saith he Christ crucified vnto the Iewes a scandall or offence and vnto the Grecians foolishnesse but vnto them which are called both of the Iewes and Greekes Christ the power of God and wisedome of God to saue all that beleeue For Christ is made of God to vs righteousnesse redemption and sanctification to the end That he which reioyceth might reioyce in the Lord. In so much that I esteemed not to know any thing among you sayth Paul saue Iesus Christ and him crucified So that Christ crucified the Crosse of Christ the preaching of the Crosse and the Gospell of Iesu Christ are phrases of like force vsed by Paul for one and the selfe same word of trueth which is the doctrine of our saluation by the death and blood of Christ. Christ sent me saith he to preach THE GOSPEL not with wisedome of words least
of the liuing sacrifices what needed the burning of the same after it was dead and senselesse obscurely to intimate if not falsely that the fire of affliction as you would haue it should consume the Messias God had therefore another meaning as I take it in commanding ech sacrifice after it was slaine to be offered to him by fire Forwhere of all creatures subiect to mans sight and sense fire was the fittest for the light heate force and motion thereof to designe vnto the people the brightnesse of Gods glorie the zeale of his holinesse the grace of his Spirit and seate of his habitation in the heauens God gaue the Iewes fire from heauen to burne perpetually on his Altar which did teach them with what cleannesse of hands and feruentnesse of heart the things which hee required should bee offered vnto him and did separate the sacrifices dedicated vnto God from all prophane abuse and humane vse and made them ascend towardes the place of his glorious presence that he might accept them with fauour and be pleased with them All which significations of heauenly fire were most perfectly accomplished in the sacrifice of Christ Iesus For neuer man nor Angel offered vnto God any seruice with like puritie and charitie as the Lord Iesus offered himselfe to his Fathers will and that his oblation did not onely clense his body from all corruption of mortalitie and infirmitie as appeared by his resurrection but pearced the heauens with admirable celeritie and efficacie and preuailed in the presence of God to bee a sweete smelling sauour for all the sonnes of God Some of these things you seeme to acknowledge As fire to signifie the Acceptation of Christs death in that it was a sacrifice of a sweete sauour ascending vp to God What reason then haue you that fire should note the wrath of God powred out on Christes soule and body before he died Shall one and the same fire in one and the same sacrifice import both gracious acceptance with God and terrible vengeance from God These be contraries in mine eyes whatsoeuer they be in yours That fire in sacrifices did shew Gods fauour and not his anger the sacrifices of Gedeon Salomon and Elias doe plainly prooue which God with fire from heauen consumed not in token of any displeasure against them or dislike of their offerings but in signe of very fauorable acceptations both of their persons and sacrifices Euen so at the first offerings of Aaron the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people and there came a fire from the Lord and consumed the burnt offering vpon the Altar which when all the people saw they gaue a shout for ioy and fell on their faces This fire descending from God and consuming that sacrifice God commaunded to keepe burning for euer on his Altar and none might approch to him with any other fire in incense or offering in so much that when Nadab and Abihu the sonnes of Aaron tooke strange â—…ire to offer before the Lord and not of that which alwaies burned on the Altar God destroyed them with fire The fire then which consumed the sacrifices of the Iewes was miraculously deliuered them by God and ioyfully receaued of all the people and therefore did not argue to them any wrath or vengeance on their sacrifices but rather the fauour and good liking of God which the Scripture noteth by the sweete odour of the sacrifice As when Noah made his burnt offerings to ascend by fire the Scripture saith the Lord smelled a sauour of rest that is he shewed himselfe to be appeased and his anger to rest So when Aaron and his sonnes were to be consecrated Priests God said to Moses Thou shalt make to smell by fier that is thou shalt burne the whole Ram as a burnt offering it shall be to the Lord a sauour of rest that is a pleasing sacrifice And for that cause God willed the Iewes in their peace offerings whereby they gaue thanks for their safetie and prosperitie to vse fire and saith of it ISSHE this burning by fire or this sacrifice made by fire is a sauour of rest vnto the Lord. And so in incense which Saint Iohn resembleth to the prayers of the Saints fire was likewise required to teach them that their prayers went vp before God as the smoke of sweete odours and were accepted of him Then not affliction or indignation on the Sacrifice was declared by the fire which God commaunded to be vsed in all kinds of sacrifices but rather an ascending vp to the presence of God and an accepting thereof in the sight of God which is farre from your suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ for which you bable so much in both your bookes But the Apostle sayth as the bodies of beasts were burnt without the campe so Christ suffered without the gate Were it granted that fire in Sacrifices did signifie probation or affliction which is no way proued you are no whit the neerer to your suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ. For the bodies of beasts sayth the Apostle were burnt which can by no pretense of these wordes be stretched farder than the afflictions of Christes bodie when he was carried to be crucified without the gate And the chopping of the holocaust in pieces that it might the more conueniently be layed on the wood to burne maketh as slender proofe that Christes soule suffered the paines of hell notwithstanding your graue deuice that Christes soule was chopt in pieces and not his bodie which conceits of yours declare your follie but helpe not your cause Those Sacrifices whereof part was burnt by fire and the rest reserued for the Priest and sometimes for the owner that brought them to feast before the Lord had their bloud shed at the doore of the Tabernacle as well as the other and so resembled the death of Christ no lesse than the other though God would haue no part of the one to be eaten by the Priests or people as the other were but to be wholly consumed by fire because they were wholly reserued or dedicated vnto him And this the Apostle respecteth in that comparison which he maketh of the bodies of beasts burnt without the campe whereof the Priests that serued in the Tabernacle could not be partakers They were consumed by fire because the Priests should not eat thereof to foreshew as the Apostle noteth that such as were addicted to the seruice and ceremonies of the Law and the outward Temple could not be partakers of the trueth which is in Christ except they did leaue those elements of the Law which seemed so glorious in their eyes and followed Christ out of the gate bearing his reproch whose bloud was most holy and most sufficient to sanctifie the people though hee were cast out of the citie to suffer as a malefactour and wicked person Neither were the dead bodies of those beasts consumed by fire out
will and Counsell b Amos 3. Is there any euill in the Citie and the Lord hath not done it saith Amos. Where he doth not ascribe all euill of punishment to the immediate hand of God but to the Soueraigne Iudgement and power of God appointing and ordering what shall be done c Esa. 45. I am the Lord there is none other making Peace and creating euill In both God had and hath his Instruments though in both his will and power did and doth preuaile When Dauid had sinned by killing Vriah and taking his wife God thus threatned him by Nathan the prophet d 2. Sam. 12. I will raise vp euill against thee out of thine owne bouse and will take thymiues before thine cies and giue them to thy neighbour and he shall lie with thy wiues in the sight of this Sunne For thou didst it secretly but I will doe this thing before all Israell and the Sunne Shall we attribute Absolons vnnaturall rebellion against his father and his most shameles incest to Gods immediate hand and so make God the onely author of so horrible sinne which is the heigth of all wickednesse Or did God by his iust iudgement giue libertie to Satan to lead Absolon that ambitious murderer of his eldest brother by the wicked counsell of Achitophell to this impudent villanie So when Iob sayth The Lord hath giuen and the Lord hath taken it did he meane that God tooke it with his immediate hand or that God by his righteous iudgement did enlarge the diuell and those wicked robbers to make triall of him by the losse of his goods and children e Iob. 2. Stretch out thine hand and touch his bones and his flesh said Satan to God when he desired leaue to strike Iobs body Whereupon Saint Austen sayth f August ad Simplicianum li. 2. Epist. 1. Manum Domini appellabat permissam à Domino manum suam id est ipsam potestatem quam volebat accipere The hand of the Lord Satan calleth his owne hand permitted by God that is the power and leaue which he would receaue God himselfe thus speaketh of the Assyrians that oppressed his people g Esa. 10. O Ashur the rod of my wrath the staffe in their hands is mine indignation God then vseth the wicked both men and Angels to execute his iudgements and exercise his seruants though they haue no such knowledge or purpose and their rage and deeds he calleth his anger and acts because he giueth them power and leaue without which they could not stirre to hurt any of his creatures much lesse any of his seruants Which Christ signified to Pilate when he said h Iohn 19. Thou couldest haue no power at all against me except it were giuen thee from aboue i Defenc. pag. 82. li. 7. The Prophet sayth the Lord delighted to bruize him and afflicted him or slew him In points of faith vndoubted men may dally with diuersitie of significations and doe no hurt but if you will erect new religions and then iustifie your inuentions with What the Prophets fore tol â—…e of Christs sufferings that the 〈◊〉 firme was verified new translations to your liking you bring vs now not the word of God but the humour of your owne head If I may be allowed the like libertie I can soone coole the fire of your words by the same rules that you kindle them For the words may signifie The Lord would humble him and made him expectant or patient The proper significations of the words you will say must be preferred But none of them can be verified of Christs sufferings at the least if we beleeue your Lexicon For dacha with you is to bruise or beate to powder and châ—…l properly noteth the labour of Women in child-birth as chalah doth to be painefully sicke which things agree not properly to the Passion of Christ. Since then we must be forced to the consequent or adherent significations of the words mine haue as good right to be receaued as yours How beit to direct the Reader the safest way in this case Neither you nor I must intrude our deuices vpon the words of God but what the Euangelists describe in Christs sufferings that without Question the Prophets foresaw and foretold in their Predictions The words then of the Prophets must not inferre any new fansies of yours nowhere confirmed in the Euangelists but what the Gospell witnesseth Christ did suffer that Esay foresaid Christ should susfer The immediate hand of God tormenting the Soule of his Sonne is no where testified in the Gospell It was therefore no where foreshewed in the Prophets But the true accustomed translation may stand for good the Lord would bruise him or humble him and made him weake And where you catch hold of the word khaphets as if it were Gods owne action because he tooke pleasure and delight therein besides that the word signifieth to be willing and content as well as to desire and delight that part of your exposition refuteth the rest For God taketh no pleasure in punishing as the Prophet confesseth of him k Lament 3. vers 33. He doth not punish with the hart and as hee witnesseth of him selfe i Azech 1â—… vers 32. I take no pleasure in the death of him that dieth Where you must either translate the wordes that God tooke pleasure to humble and weaken his Sonne to trie his obedience and patience or else that for our sakes rather then we should perish God was content or would bruize him with stripes and wounds due to vs and made him taste of our Infirmities yet neither way conuinceth that God did this with his owne hand For m Psal. 116. The death of his Saints is pretious which is as much as pleasant in his sight and then most pretious when with Faith and Patience they despise for Gods cause all that their pursuers can doe vnto them n Defenc. pa. 82. li. 8. The Apostles doe acknowledge that both the counsell and hand of God was in Christs punishment The place which you bring Acts 4. verse 28 doth cleerely confute your erroneous conceit and answer all that hitherto you haue cited to the contrarie o Acts. 4. Against thine holy Sonne Iesus both Herod and Pontius Pilate with the Gentiles and the people of Israel gathered themselues together to doc what soeuer thy hand and counsell had determined before to be done Let the simplest that is heere iudge whether the Apostles in this their praier acknowledge any thing done to Christ in his sufferings by Gods owne hand without all meanes as you imagine or whether they doe not expressely auouch that both rulers and people of Iewes and Gentils were Gods meanes to doe that which his hand and counsell had before determined to be done So that Christ was not left to the will and power of his enemies to doc with him what they would but to doe that vnto him which Gods wisdome determined and hand
they be neuer freed from that horrible confusion in which they lie And therefore they scare the place prouided for them and besought Christ neither k Luc. 8. to send them into the deepe and bottomlesse pit nor to l Matth. 8. torment them besore their time Neither was there onely transgression reprobation and confusion in the place of heauen where the Angels sinned and whence they were cast but of the blessed Angels S. Iohn saith that one of them m Reuel 20. came downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pit and a great chaine in his hand who tooke the Dragon which is the diuell and bound him and cast him into the bottomlesse pit and shut him vp and sealed vpon him And were it doubtfull of Angels how they could retaine the measure of their brightnesse and blessednesse in the place of hell yet heare we Dauid confesse of God himselfe and of his spirit If I ascend to heauen thou art there if I get downe to hell thou art there So that the very fountaine of all holinesse and happinesse is in heauen earth and hell and yet the states of these three places are not confounded because the perfection of all goodnesse is present in euery of them The goodnesse and glory of God is not so fastned vnto places that either Paradise or heauen did priuilege men or Angels from sinne as heauen did not the diuels nor hell it selfe can hinder the happinesse of the blessed Angels when they are sent with power from God to execute his pleasure And yet this doth not confound the distinction of places or states in heauen or hell but that heauen is now the place where the brightnesse of Gods glory is reuealed to his Saints besides their internall and continuall vision of God which maketh them most happie and neuer leaueth them whethersoeuer they goe And therefore the Angels that sinned were cast thence that they should not defile the place of Gods presence with their wickednesse and hell is likewise the prepared mansion for the diuels where vengeance from God is powred on them and greater shall be when after iudgement they shall be closed in perpetuall prison though till that day some of them be suffered to beare rule in the aire and to worke in the children of disobedience for the triall of the saints and farder setting forth os Gods most glorious wisedome power and rightcousnesse n Defenc. pag. 119. li. â—…7 Lastly the true ioyes of heauen may be out of the locall heauen as when the glorious Angels haue bene and tarried some while here on earth with men Yet did they neuer for a moment want the toyes and glory of heauen From Angels endued with inward and heauenly light power holinesse and happinesse and by grace euerlastingly confirmed therein no argument can be drawen to our weake sinfull and variable condition neither doe we dispute of Gods power what he can doe but of his will and ordinance whereby he hath appointed heauen to be his seat that is the place where his glory is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and eternall and perfect blessednesse bestowed on all the inhabitants thereof be they men or Angels And though the Angels whethersoeuer they goe or whatsoeuer they doe retaine the cleere sight of God and the perfection of their 〈◊〉 all happinesse yet that is no proofe that we liuing here in mortall and miserable flesh can haue that on earth which they haue For example take some parts or consequents of that heauenly ioy and blisse which the Angels being heere on earth keep immutable and you shall soone see how grossely you erre in communicating their glory to men yet dwelling in houses of clay The Angels of God 〈◊〉 here on earth can neither erre sinne nor die they can feele no necessity infirmity nor miserie they need not eat sleepe nor rest they are indued with light that cannot be obscured with holinesse that cannot be defiled with ioy that cannot be diminished with power that cannot be resisted by men or Diuels Can these things be attributed to mortall men here on earth without open and palpable heresie Wherefore it is an erroneous and presumptuous inference that o Defenc pa. 120. 〈◊〉 2. If Angels may enioy heauen really being in the world that men heere liuing may doe the like p Defenc. pag. 120. 3. It is possible for Gods goodnesse to communicate some reall foretasie thereof vnto some blessed men also A taste of glory which neither continueth nor satisfieth can not be called heauen which is the perfect and perpetuall fulnesse of all kinde of blisse and want of all kinde of miserie S. Peter teacheth vs that God q 1. Pet. 1. begetieth vs into a liuely hope to an inheritance incorruptible vndefiled and vnchangeable reserued in the heauens for vs who are by the power of God kept by faith vnto saluation readie to le shewed in the last time If the taste of glory which you talke of be not immortall immutable vndefiled with any defect or miserie it may not be called heauen nor be sayd to be the inheritance reserued for vs in heauen And therefore though some blessed men haue had a sight of some glory which you call a taste thereof as Moses Esay Steuen and others yet that doth not proue them to haue beene really in the ioyes of heauen How osten is it written of the Israelites that they saw the glory of the Lord and yet they were ouerthrowen in the wildernesse r Exodus 24. ver 16. 〈◊〉 17. The glory of the Lord saith Moses abode vpon mount Sinai and the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountaine in the eies of the children of Israel So when Aaron offered his first offering for his Priesthood and blessed the people t Leu t. 9. v. 23 The glorie of the Lord appeared to all the people of whom God saith u Numb 14. vers 22. All these men which haue seene my glory my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wildernesse and haue tempted me these ten times certainly they shall not see the land whereof I sware to their Fathers When Salomon had builded and consecrated the temple with praier and sacrifice x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The glory of the Lord 〈◊〉 house so that the Priests could not enter into the house of the Lord because the glory 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord had filled the Lords house And when all the children of Israel saw the fire and the glory of the Lord come downe vpon the house they bowed themselues with their faces to the earth vpon the pauement and worshipped and praised the Lord. I trust the King the Priests and the People were not all in the ioies of heauen and yet they all with their eies saw the glory of God there presented before them and such as were religious and obedient saw it to their exceeding ioy y Defenc. pag. 120. li. 5. That God doth
And how come you now to put so great a difference betwixt alwaies and vsually where before you did interpret alwaies to be ordinarily but now you finde flesh and spirit together applied to men once to signifie meerely the body and soule Meane you in all the Scriptures or in the new Testament onely You call it the r Treatis pag. 136. li. 8. perpetuall vse of the Scripture and so must include the old Testament as well as the new except you will barre the old from being part of the Scripture What then shall become of that which Moses so often ascribeth to God when he saith s Numb 16. 27. O God the God of the spirits of all flesh Praieth he for the spirits of men or of beastes If you will straighten your wordes to the new Testament how insolent a bragger and negligent a Reader of the Scripture are you that first said it was alwaies so and now correcting your error say you finde it once otherwise where a childe might easily haue found it oftner The Apostle decreed the Offender at Corinth to be t 1. Coâ—… 5. deliuered vnto Sathan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saued in the day of the Lord. And to the Hebrewes he telleth vs u Heb. 12. We had fathers of our flesh which corrected vs and we reuerenced them Should we not much more be subiect to the Father of spirits In both which places the spirit of force must signifie the substance of mans soule x Defenc. pag. 144. li. 19. Finally to make an end with your Fathers and Councels I haue shewed before that your large claime prooueth a very short gaine For in substance and full effect they are euidently and generally against you and for vs. If thou thinke Christian Reader that I charge this man vniustly with impudent facing behold but these wordes and say what thou thinkest of them He that hath not brought nor can not bring one euident or pertinent word out of any Father for the death of Christes soule he yelleth out with open throatâ—… that generally and euidently they are in substance and full effect for him and against me It is no time heere to repeat what is past by that which is said thou maist easily iudge on which side the Fathers stand with full confession of the trueth and their faith Bragging is boies play where all performance wanteth y li. 24. As for their denying that Christ died in his soule I haue answered before With senselesse and shamefull shifts that Christes soule died not as the body did that he died not the ordinary death of the soule expressed in the Scriptures but an extraordinary newly deuised by your selfe and more then this in summe and substance you haue not said one word z li. 25. Further where you bring them in many places saying by his bloud onely he redeemed vs and he suffered onely in his body they are abused by you woonderfully not in their wordes but in their meaning You would faine change dying into suffering and haue your Reader imagine that I say Christes soule suffered nothing at all but these are now so stale tricks of yours that euery man reiecteth them as fast as I doe From death you 〈◊〉 to sufferings from sufferings to proper sufferings of the soule to which you à dde as a supplussage the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God And so where you finde any Father affirme that Christ GRIEVED FEARED OR SORROWED in soule which are the naturall passions of mans soule common to good and badde you looke no farder but presently pronounce that Father maketh euidently with you But awake out of this ignorant lâ—…thargie there be many steps betweene their words and your wiles which you will neuer tread ouer with any the least shew of truth or proofe If I haue not abused their wordes in alleaging them as you confesse and I assure my selfe I haue not but where the Printer perchance hath made some fault which no man can auoid as pag. 81. August de Trinitate li. 11. the Printer hath set for lib. 13. and some such then haue I lesse abused their meaning whereof I make euerie Reader iudge and so referre my collecting to their censuring which is no abuse a Defenc. pag. 144. li. 28. They striuing against Arians and such other heretikes who would haue Christs Deitie to take part in his sufferings for our redemption the godly auncient writers doe heereupon say he suffered and satisfied for vs onely in his body not excluding the proper and immediate sufferings of his spirit Let the Authors themselues be viewed if you thinke 1 affirme of them falsely Against whom they write is not so much as what they write and how they confute those heretikes whom they vndertake The positions which they establish out of the Scriptures against such heresies are most to be regarded by their proofes you shall see their purpose To confound those misbeleeuers that would haue the Godhead of Christ suffer in his flesh or together with his flesh the Fathers do soundly oppose first that the Godhead is inuiolable impassible immutable and such like properties of the Godhead Secondly that the soule of Christ was subiect to no kind of death neither of sinne nor damnation which are not the death of the body as you wilfully but most absurdly would wrest it and therefore the Godhead was much more free not onely from this death of the bodie but from all touch of any kinde of death Thirdly to shew what it was in Christ that died since neither the Deitie nor the soule of Christ could die any kinde of death they prooue that that which died was a mortall bodie buried and raised againe the third day according to the Scriptures Which accidents and attributes belonging onely to the body of Christ It is most certaine by the sacred Scriptures that onely the body of Christ was yeelded to death for the redemption of our sinnes These be the chiefest of their reasons though they haue many others tending to the same issue which whether they truely and effectually exclude the death of Christes soule from the worke of our redemption I leaue it to their iudgement that shall peruse the former places by me cited or view the Fathers themselues in their full discourses And yet a number of these Fathers in the places by me alleaged doe not refute the Arians but handle professedly other points of our redemption saluation as Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection of the flesh Chrysostom in his Homily of drunkennesse of the resurrection Augustine in his 99. Epistle those Chapters of his fourth Booke de Trinitate which I produced Gregorie vpon Iob Bernard in his Sermons to the Souldiers of the Temple Bede in his Homilies and Albinus in his questions these I say doe not there take in hand to refell the Arians but to deliuer what kinde of death Christ died to free
either the prophesie which sayd Thou wilâ—… not leaue my soâ—…le in hell which lesâ—…â—…y man should dâ—…e otherwise interpret Peter expoundeth in the Acts of the Apostles nor the words of the same Peter where he affirmeth that Christ loosed the sorowes of hell in which it was impossible he should be held Who then but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell All that you haue to say against this is that Iewes and Pagans to wit wicked Rabbins enemies to Christ and Poets ignorant of all trueth vsed the words Sheol and Hades otherwise than the whole Church of Christ without exception till our age receiued and beleeued them from S. Peters mouth and S. Lukes pen that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the foule and hades importeth hell put you from this shiâ—…t and you fall â—…ull within the compasse of S. Austens challenge that is of plaine infidelitie and theâ—…e be simple Sidemen to cleere you from that crime q Now I assume this and by Gods helpe shall make it manifest that there is in all the Scripture no one place whereby it may be prooued by any shew of reason that Christes soule after this life went locally downward from hence or diuersly from the soâ—…les of â—…ll good men deceased Though the opinion you hâ—…e of your â—…lfe be great yet when you come to condemne the whole Church of God â—…s ignorâ—…t of the Christian faith or altering the same you should vse some more modestie than to say they had not one plat â—…all the Scripture nor any shew of reason to beleeue as they did You preâ—…ume much of your Rabbins and Pagans preferring theiâ—… enuioâ—…s and friuolous iâ—…aginations before the iudgement and faith of the whole Châ—…ch of Chrâ—…st yet take good heed lest the better and elder sort euen of your owne Deponents receiue you not and so you test conuicted in the â—…ares of all good mâ—…n to be rather an insolent affecter of nouelties than any regarder of sobrietie or pietie Only there are two or thrâ—… places sonsibly wrested to this pâ—…rpose First that Ephes. 4. where Christ is sayd to hâ—…e come downe into the lowest parts of the earth If that place be wrested from his right sense the Church of Christ from the beginning must be charged with that wresting Ireneuâ—… citeth thoâ—…e very words of the Apostle that Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth and maketh them equiualent with the words of Dauid touching Christ Thâ—… hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell saying Hoâ—… Daâ—…id in câ—…m prophetâ—…s dâ—…xit so much Daâ—…id in his prophesiâ—… spake of him Tertullian alleaging the very same wordes of the Apostle concludeth Habes regionem Inferâ—…m subterraneam credere by this thou art to beleeue that the region or place of hell is vnder the earth Cyprian Descendens ad inferos captiuam ab antiquo captiuitatem reduxit Christ descending to hell brought backe the captiuitie that of old was captiuated Arnobius Postea vidit inferos longe factus est non solum à câ—…lis sed ab ipsa Terra in abyssi profunda descendens c after his crosse he visited hell and became farre off not only from heauen but euen from the earth it selfe descending into the depth of the bottomlesse pit Chrysostom Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth after which there are none other And he ascended aboue all higher than which there is nothing Ambrose vpon that place of â—…aul After death Christ descended to hell whence rising the third day he ascended aboue all the heauens afore all men Ierom out of those words of the Apostle Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth first concludeth Infernum sub terra esse nemo iam ambigat Let no man now doubt but hell is vnder the earth And expounding the rest he sayth Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit in coelum He that descended to hell in soule ascended to heauen with bodie and soule Primasius vpon the same words of Paul maketh the like collection Ergo sub terra est infernus Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit ad coelos Therefore hell is vnder the earth And he that in soule descended to hell ascended to heauen in soule and bodie Photius To the lower parts of the earth after which place there is no lower he meaneth hell Dorotheus What is He led captiuitie captiue By Adams transgression the enemie made vs all captiues and had vs in subiection Christ then tooke vs againe out of the enemies hand and conquered him that made vs captiuâ—… Erepti sumus igitur ab inferis ob Christi humanitatem We were then taken from hell by Christes humanity Theophylact At quem in locum descendit In infernum c. To what place did Christ descend To hell which he calleth the lowest parts of the carth after the common opinion of men Haymo First Christ descended to the lower parts of the â—…arth into hell and after he ascended to heauen He descended to hell in his soule alone and then he ascended aboue all the heauens in body and soule It must be noted by this that he sayth Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth he sheweth hell to be vnder the earth whence it is called Infernus because it is lower than the earth or vnder the earth Zanchius repeating diuers Expositions of this place addeth in the end The Fathers for the most part are of this opinion that Christ in his soule came to the place of the damned to signifie not in words but with his presence that the iustice of God was satisfied by his death and bloudshed and that Satan had no longer power ouer his Elect whom he held captiue that himselfe was made Lord ouer all and all power ouer heauen and earth giuen him and a Name aboue all Names that in the name of Iesu euery knee of things celestiall terrestriall and infernall should bow neither that he came thither only to signifie this in such sort as is sayd but also that he might câ—…ie all the diuels with him in a triumph as it is Coloss 2. He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them leading them as captiues in a triumph by the vertue of his crosse by which he had purged sinnes and appeased the iustice of God Could he not haue done this without any such descent of his soule He could but he would be so farre humbled that his soule should descend into that most darke and wretched place though not there to suffer any thing but to beginne thence his triumph ouer the power of the Diuell And this opinion of the Fathers I dare not condemne since it is not repugnant to the sacred Scriptures and hath likely reasons The consent of the Fathers when it is not contrary to
the perfection of their celestiall glory Otherwise against you and all that out of this place surmise that iust mens soules shall not be deliuered out of Sheol till the resurrection the sense and words of Dauid in this are pregnant enough For Dauid putting a difference in thâ—…se two verses betwixt himselfe and the wicked and that with an aduersatiue coniunction since the soules of the wicked are in Sheol presently vpon their deaths if Dauids must be there also what distinction doe his wordes make betweene himselfe and those others of whom he spake before Againe he saith God will deliuer his soule from Sheol ki cúm or quia when he shall receiue me or because he will receiue me Take which you will it is plaine by the Scriptures and by these very words of Dauid that so soonâ—… as God receiueth the soule of man it is deliuered from Sheol But hee receiueth the soules of his Saints instantly vpon their deaths they are therefore presently deliuered out of Sheol and stay not there by any force of Dauids wordes vntill the resurrection Lord Iesus sayd Steuen euen as he was stoned receiue my spirit The begger died saith the Gospell and was caried by the Angels into Abrahams bosome This day shalt thou be with mee in Paradise said Christ to the theefe He that beleeueth in him that sent me saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is already passed from death to life If the faithfull passe so soone to life they bee as soone deliuered from Sheol by Dauids owne confession against which I will heare neither you nor any man liuing Againe that Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My soule is filled with sorrowes and my liâ—…e draweth neere to Sheol by his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountaine of life in him which also in â—…e first part of the sentence hee nameth By these rouing and licentious glozes builded on the sands of your owne saying you thinke you may prooue what you will and all shall be expresse Scripture if you say the word Life you will haue to be soule drawing neere to be abiding in The graue to be the generall condition of soules deceased and to warrant all this your selfe is the soothsayer By his life he meaneth his soule which also in the first part of the sentence hee nameth as the manner of phrase in the Psalme is in the second part to speake of the same things that are in the former Many verses in the Psalmes doe illustrate the selfe same generall with diuers parts adiuncts and consequents but that the words be of all one force or signification in euery such verse this is an other of your new found methodes which is nothing else but a meere confusion of all things For will you see with your manner of phrase as you finâ—…ly furbish it what consequents hang on these kind of collections This life of which Dauid speaketh continueth not in Sheol because it is vtterly exstinguished by Sheol ergo the soule likewise is mortall and wholy perisheth in Sheol for so doth the life mentioned by Dauid which you say is all one with the soule Againe if both these parts import one sense then the iust in Sheol are filled with sorrowes for so are the former wordes of Dauid And if that be true how much hath the spirit of God deceiued vs who bad S. Iohn write blessed are the dead which hereafter die in the Lord euen so saith the spirit for they rest from their labours But that was the spirit of trueth and therefore the spirit of error in you sucketh these absurdities out of the Psalmes by your misconstruction of them Indeede I denie not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man and so may nephesh the soule also very well and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the graue which is only for the car casse but the condition of the whole man after he hath no being in this world And per aduenture so it is vnderstood heere in thâ—…se places in which sense Sheol and Hades are farre from signifying hell yea or heauen either yea or onely and meerely the graue but it signisieth destruction out of this world and not being heere any more as aforetime to the whole person that is both to the bodie and to the soule The idle deuices of this wild-gooseracer who would spend either time or paines to tracke when he reeleth to and fro like a man pot-shotten with it may be and per aduenture it is so and closeth vp all in the end with a dangerous destruction which he maketh to be iust nothing Boyes meanely Catechised can soone conceiue that death or the graue bringeth with it an end of all earthly things from which the wicked are loth to depart as hauing no farder nor better hope after this life and therefore to them death is a destruction indeed that is a ceasing of all their pleasures and an encreasing of all their paines To the godly who put not their hearts to the things of this world but desire to bee dissolued and to bee with Christ and in comparison of his presence account all earthly things to be base and burdenous death is a gaine and no destruction because they renounced the loue of all these worldly thinges before hand and sought for the permanent citie whose founder is God Wherefore to them this bodie is a burden this life is a warefare and this world is a desert full of snares and pits Wherein they wander as pilgrimes and strangers If then to lay aside these troubles and trifles and to be freed from all labours and dangers and to come home to the countrcy and citie which God hath prouided for the faithfull be in any wise mans sense a destruction then haue you some reason to call the generall condition of death as well to the iust as to the wicked a destruction but if that thought and speech be void of all religion and reason then doe you houer in the midst betweene heauen and hell and huddle saluation and damnation in one generall condition or state as you call it and when you sce what inconuenience will follow thereof you make it nothing but a meere priuation or an end of things past And this you would applie as well to the person of Christ whose soule you say was in no Sheol but this as to al his members whose soules shall not be freed from this destruction and Sheol till the day of resurrection Did you speake of the nature of death in it selfe or as it taketh hold on the wicked I would allow the word destruction which if it be well vnderstood is more then a mâ—…re priuation but when you presume to peruert the Scriptures with peraduentures and to sow to them what sense you list as may best fit your monstrous fancies lâ—…t no man be offended if I often thinke it fit to reiect your
is thrâ—…wen downe to Hades For he that minded neuer any high or heauenly thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was woorthy of the lowest place In saying then he was buried the Lord secretly signifieth that his soule had the place that was lowest and darke And though hee there shew the opinion of some that thought hades to be rather the condition of the soule after death then a place yet he himselfe resolueth the coÌ„trary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 What is hades Some say it is a place of darkenesse vnder the earth others say Hades is the change of the soule from sensible to obscure and vnseene And though the wordes of our Sauiour determine that doubt who maketh the rich man call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this place of torment yet Theophylact himselfe reasoning there against Origen out of Abrahams wordes saith As it is then vnpossible for any of the iust to passe to the place of sinners so Abraham teacheth vs it is impossible 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to passe from the place of punishment to the place of the righteous And since their names doe not appeare that were of this opinion and being latter in age deserue not the same credite for their iudgements that the auncient and learned Fathers doe I omit these petite masters whom no man knoweth as fansing somewhat if they could prooue it and will goe forward with the maine consent as of all Greeke diuines that are extant so of the best and eldest commentators and expounders of Greeke words to shew that Hades is a place of darkenesse vnder earth for soules where now none but wicked are contained and there punished Eustathius Archbishop of Thessalonica a man of no meane skill in the Greeke tongue as appeareth by his commenting vpon Homere saith Haïdes which is Hades is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a darke place vnder earth vnseene and appointed for soules Phauorinus Bishop of Nuceria in his commentaries of the Greeke tongue saith likewise 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades is a place vnder the earth secret and hidde which hee also calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a place without light and filled with eternall darkenesse The great Etymologist of the Greeke tongue concurreth with them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades is a place void of light and full of euerlasting darkenesse and mists I shall not neede with many wordes to vrge the properties and conditions of the place which these Greeke Fathers call Hades It is apparent to any who will pâ—…ruse them that they auouch it to be a place of darkenesse opposed to heauen and Paradise and vnder the earth where Diuels are keepers and tormentors of soules and where the wicked after this life are kept prisoners and suffer punishments according to their deserts which Christ destroyed and spoiled by his descent thither deliuering thence that is from the feare power and danger thereof all such as before or after did or should beleeue in him And though some of these writers did happily thinke the soules of the godly deceased before Christes death were kept in a part thereof in hope of their deliuerance thence yet with one consent they witnesse it to be nothing lesse then heauen or Paradise or the state of the dead common to good and bad after Christs resurrection as likewise they teach that Christ deliuered thence not onely such of his elect as were dead before that time but all the faithfull aswell then liuing as yet vnborne And therefore a deliuerance thence doth not exactly conclude a locall detention and inclusion there but a quiting and disloluing of all the right interest and challenge that hell or Satan had for sinne vnto the seruants and members of Christ whensoeuer they liued or died Onely Tertullian is opposite to them all who dreampt that the soules of all the faithfull saue Martyrs were kept in places vnder the earth which he calleth inferi till the generall resurrection wherein as in many other points deliuered in his booke de Anima he goeth a priuate way by himselfe without and against the maine resolution of the rest of the Fathers He doth not montanize in this as you obiect but consenteth with Irenaeus before and with others after him as shall appeare who were no Montanists Your mistaking Irenaeus here as you did before little helpeth your market and others when you bring them shall haue an answere fitting them In the meane while where you be so zealous to saue Tertullian from Montanisme he must haue a better proctor then you are to vphold his cause or els it will soone fall to the ground That none but Martyrs are in Paradise and all other the faithfull departing this life are in prisons and places vnder the earth till the day of iudgement this is not onely repugnant to the Scriptures and the rest of the Fathers but a plaine branch of Montanus heresie which Tertullian deriueth from no grounds of holy Scripture whence all trueth must be fet but from certaine Reuelations Prophesies different from the Scriptures which Montanus and others published as made by the holy Ghost after the writing of the Scriptures and which Tertullian in his writings coloureth with the name and pretence of the Paraâ—…te calling the true Christians that refused his new found doctrine Psychicos naturall men and not ledde by the latter direction of the spirit as Montanus and others were whom in exacting chastitie abstinence and Martyrdome more strictly then the Church of Christ did he followed And therefore not onely his doctrine in this place allowing Paradise to none besides martyrs but his alleaging Montanus verie words and pretending the Paraclete for his conceit no where written in the Scriptures declare him expresly in this to be a Montanist For plainer proofe whereof first Tertullian speaking of himselfe when he forsooke the rest of the Christians to cleaue to the reuelations of Montanus and his adherents saith Et nos quidem postea agnitio Paracleti atque defensio disiunxit a Psychicis The agnising of the Paraclet in the prophesies of Montanus and defending thereof did afterward disioine vs from the carnall men So he termed the Church of Christ for refusing the new prophesies of Montanus as appeareth euidently by his booke De ieiunio aduersus psycâ—…cos of fasting against the carâ—…all men which Saint Ierom saith was written specialiter aduersum ecclesiam particularly against the Church Where he likewise taxeth the Christians for resisting the Paraclet or new prophesies of Montanus couering them vnder the name of the Paraclet and interpreting the one by the other Hiparaeleto controuer siam faciunt propter hoc nouae prophetiae recusantur non quod alium Deum praedicent Montanus Priscilla Maximilla sed quod plane doceant saepius ieiunare quaÌ„ nubere These â—…arnall men quarrell with the Paraclet and therefore are the new prophesies refused not that Montanus Priscilla Maximilla preach another God but that they plainly teach oftner
their bodies in the dust of the earth And therefore that which followeth and is by you cited By this which we confesse that the Lord descended to infernus we must vnderstand that the Lord ioined himselfe in spirit to the spirits of the Saints deceased that I say is added as a consequent to Christs death and not as the proper signification of the phrase For it were more then absurd by your leaue that one and the same word which he saith signifieth the graue should properly note the burying of the body in earth below and the ascending of the spirit to heauen on high though in all the Saints the one is performed as well as the other And where Bucere seemeth to impugne the sense which the fathers gaue of this Article as his reasons be none so his words in no wise mans iudgement can ouersway theirs Peter martyr that Christ descended to inferos or hades signifieth nothing els but that he did vnder goe the same state as other soules doe that depart this life Why stoppe you there are you bleere eied that you cannot see what presently followeth or short winded that you can read no farder the very next words will plainly shew with what sincerity and fidelity you be conuersant in old and new writers Peter Martyrs words are these Eundem subijt statum quem reliquae animae à corpore seiunctae experiuntur quae aut in Sanctorum societatem coaptantur aut cum damnatorum spiritibus in aeternum exitium detruduntur Et vero vna atque altera tum piorum spirituum tum eorum qui damnati essent societas animae Christi praesentiam persensit The soule of Christ did vndergoe the same state by going to the same place which the rest of the soules seuered from the body doe trie that are either admitted into the fellowship of the saints or cast into euerlasting destruction with the spirits of the damned For both the one and the other society aswell of godly soules as of those that were damned perceaued the presence of Christs soule The soule then of Christ by Peter Martyrs iudgement cleane contrary to Bucers went aswell to the place of the damned as to the seats of the blessed and either society perceaued the presence of his soule seuered from his body Mollerus touching Sheol Hades and infernum ascribed to Christ saith they do signisie but that Christ died and to be no more then if he should say in the Psalme therefore I reioice because I know that although I die yet I shall rise to life againe Of Sheol Mollerus saith Saepe pro sepulchro dicâ—…tur it is often taken for the graue which no man denieth Of hades and infernus he speaketh not a word And albeit he be of opinion that Christs descent to hell sat is certò euinci non potest ex hoc loco cannot cleerely and fully be euinced out of this place of the Psalme by reason as he thinketh the words may be wrested to diuers senses yet touching Christs descent to hel he saith We vnderstand that Article of the Creed simply and without allegory and we beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. and his victory he would shew to the Diuels after a speciall manner to strike perpetuall terrors into them and to free vs from the feare of their tyranny Bullinger speaking of Christ and indifferently of the godly sheweth that to goe to infernus is to goe to Abrahams bosome that is into heauen not into hell And that inferi and hades doe makâ—… difference onely betweene the liuing and the dead and nothing els Bullinger bringeth foure senses of that Article of the Creed Christ descended to Inferna The first that is all one with he was buried which exposition he saith others mislike The second is Austens who in his Epistle to Dardanus writeth The Lord descended to Tartarus but felt there no torment The third to which he more inclineth Longe simplicius videbimur hunc articulum intelligere si senserimus virtutem mortis Christi dimanasse etiam ad defunctos his profuisse We shall seeme farre more simply to vnderstand this article if we thinke that the force of Christs death pearced euen to the dead and profited them The fourth is Vel certe per inferos inferna intelligimus non locum certè destinatum impijs sed defunctos fideles Or els by inferi inferna we vnderstand not the place of punishment appointed for the wicked but the faithfull deceased Here are all foure senses He liketh best that the vertue and force of Christs death descended and was shewed both to the blessed and to the damned as Saint Peter telleth vs that the Lord went in spirit and preached to the spirits that were inobedient and kept in prison Nimirum innotuit his iust a damnationis ex morte Christi sententia For euen to the damned appeared the sentence of their condemnation to be iust by the death of Christ. This he confesseth Christ did in spirit If by Christs spirit he ment Christs soule he expressely refuteh your conceits If he mean the force of Christs diuine spirit descended he hath Athanasius Cyril and others opposite against him Athanasius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 How could the word or Sonne of God descend to Hades And againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 How could he descend with his Godhead open and vncouered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Neither could hades endure the accesse of his Godhead vncouered And so Cyrill 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Neither in any wise may we say that the Godhead of the only begotten was brought from hades or the dennes vnder the earth for that was not worthy of woondering if the Sonne of God were not left in hades Exactly they teach that the Deitie of Christ or his diuine spirit could by no meanes be sayd to descend to hades or to returne from thence but it must be verified of his humane soule which reuealed it selfe and the vertue of his death as well to the damned as to the blessed Lauater saith Hades in Greâ—…ke is a generall word for the condition of the dead both in torments and in peace Lauater saith of hades as he doth of Sheól that Non solum locum Damnatorum sed Sâ—…pulchrum vel statum mortuorum passim in Scripturis signisicat it signisieth not onely the place of the damned but also the graue or state of the dead And so doth Hades with the septuagint who alwaies render Sheôl by that word Now the graue or state of the dead the one being an exposition of the other reacheth not to the Soules of the godly which are not in their graues but to their bodies and hath in it corruption silence obliuion and priuation of all things in this life from which the graue excludeth them be they neuer so blessed And so
after Like sheepe in Sheol shall they be put is the occasion but no iustification of your error since the verbe they shall be laid or put hath no sense at all except you repeate Sheol with the preposition after it and say they shal be laid in Sheol like sheepe So that vnlesse you will bee more then like a sheepe you must leaue this kind of collecting Your quoting of the Prophet Abacuk and of the Prouerbes to shew that all things are in Hades because neither Hades nor death can bee satisfied is much like your sheepe in Sheol Doe proud men couet chaulke and chibols because in the same verse it is said they can be no more satisfied then death and Sheol I winne not but rather as death and Sheol cannot be satisfied with bodies and soules of men which are things by them desired and receiued no more can the proud oppressour be satisfied with the spoiles of many countries but seeketh to gather vnto him all nations and to heape vnto him all people euen as death and Sheol doe The place of the Prouerbes which you bring ioyneth with Sheol a barren wombe and the earth which cannot bee satisfied with water And thence you can no more conclude that all kind of creatures are in Sheol then that they are in a womans wombe which is barren And but that I see men loose their wits aswell as their senses in Hades I should much maruaile what were become of yours all this while that speake not onely so impertinently and vntowardly but so absurdly and ridiculously that men will stoppe their eares for very shame if you will not stoppe your mouth Yet we must comeneerer You alleage two friuilous proofes of sheols signifying hell viz. when it hath opposition to beauen and situation as the lowest For the situation of hell it is a secret which Gods word hath not reuealed at all Neither ought we to determine as you very rashly doe if hell be any where there can be no doubt but it must be in the lower parts of the earth You that haue ranged so farre both from the trueth and from the matter in question had need at length come somewhat neerer The proofes produced by me that Sheol when it is opposed to heauen or described to be in the lowest parts of the earth importeth hell are not so friuolous as your follie maketh them they are grounded on better and surer rules of holy Scriptures then are your toyes of birds and beastes in Hades And first touching the place of hell below in the earth which you labour to crosse as much as you can though I before haue shewed the constant opinion of old and new writers yet can I be content to reason it farder with you because you and your friends are deuising new hels and heauens euen as you are hammering of a new Hades That hell is a place of torment the Gospel is euident Being a place it must be either in heauen aboue vs or in earth beneath vs except you will coyne vs a new Creede and say God is creator of heauen earth and of hell also which is neither in heauen nor in earth But you may not controle the Creede except you will also correct the Scriptures For that diuision of the created world into heauen and earth is witnessed in infinite places of holy Scripture to be most sufficient Hell then since it is somewhere must be within the earth vnder vs except you will make it a part of heauen ouer vs and then must men ascend to hell as they doe to heauen and no longer descend But the Scriptures are plaine that hell is beneath vs if they make mention at all of any hell which perhaps you will call in question as well as you doe the rest Those whom the Apostle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which stoupe to the power of Christs kingdome and confesse him to be their Lord who are they but reprobate and condemned men and Angels and where is the place of the punishment but vnder the earth since dead bodies can neither yeeld subiection nor make confession vnto Christ you selfe graunt Abyssus in the Scripture doth signifie a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth and Abyssus is a place whither the Diuels feare to be sent where they are chained and bound when pleaseth God Now euidently by the Scriptures from this Abyssus to the earth is an ascent no descent And therefore the dungeon for diuels which is hell is vnder vs that are in earth not aboue vs. The very name of Gehenna vsed by our Sauior for hell confessed by you to be the most proper name of hell doth it not conuince hell to be Gehennam ignis a vale of fire and where are there vales but in earth hell is called Ge-hinnon saith Peter Martyr because a vale being a low and deepe place doth resemble hell quod infra terram esse creditur which is beleeued to be vnder the earth The pit lake also which are words vsed bythe holy Ghost to expresse hell as the pit of perdition and lake burning with fire and brimstone doe confirme the same since there are no pits nor lakes but in the earth By Moses God saith A fire is kindled in my wrath and shall burne to the lower Sheol and inflame the foundations of the Mountaines A man would thinke these wordes were plaine enough to prooue the lower Sheol to bee vnder the foundations of the hils and that there burneth the fire of Gods wrath with which the wicked are punished after this life Of the lower earth I haue spoken before and prooued it to be equiualent with hell in the iudgement of the best Hebraicians and Diuines of our times And if the lower earth be hell then is hell without question in the lower parts of the earth Bullingere saith As touching the place of punishment where the soules and bodies of the wicked are tormented the Scripture simply pronounceth saying the wicked descend to hell vnde constat inferos esse infra nos in terris constitutos whereby it is certaine that hell is beneath vs that abide heere on earth We must throughly maintaine against scoffing Epicures saith Gualtere that there is a certaine place prepared for the wicked into which their soules straight after death and their bodies after the resurrection are receiued Of which place Moses speaketh when he writeth that Core Dathan and Abiram were swallowed vp with the gaping of the earth and descended aliue with all theirs to hell But hauing treated thereof in sundrie places before I will end with a verse of Sibyllaes prophesie alleaged and allowed for a Christian trueth by Lactantius Austin and Prosper where speaking of the last iudgement and the signes and consequents of that day she saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The earth gaping or cleauing in sunder shall then shew or lay open