certainly so as that S. Donston did hold the diuell fast by the nose with a paire of pincers the very first day he appeared vnto him in such an assumed bodie wherein Donston serued the Diuell of trust and according to his due desertes to teach him to be medling with the worke of creation before he had gotte a Comission from God But alas Lycanthropus are you not highly ashamed to hold so maine absurd and horrible impieties or rather such execrable and intollerable blasphemies For be you throughly assured of this that your selfe imagening the diuell a creator of bodies you doe thereby ascribe vnto him a supernaturall power and therein also doe attribute that vnto diuels which onely is due vnto God because creation of substances was neuer yet graunted to man or Angell much lesse vnto diuels Besides that if it were in the power of diuels either to create or assume to them selues essentiall bodies at pleasure it is not then to be doubted but that such and so endlesse is their malice towards men we should shortly haue the whole world replenisht with corporall diuels yea and their number would farre surmount the number of men if all be true that is set downe in Salomons notes of coniuration Wherein are named seauentie nine principall diuels hauing euery of them vnder them and at their commaund some tenne twentie thirtie fortie fiftie sixtie seauentie yea and some of them eightie legions of diuels at the least So then howsoeuer your selfe shall otherwaies dreame of a power in Satan for assuming of bodies sith they can be no such bodies as are newly created either by God or the diuell sith they can be no bodies created before sith they can be no bodies of men either dead or aliue it must necessarily follow that those imagined bodies which the diuels are supposed to assume to them selues they are in deed and in truth no true naturall bodies Lycanthropus It is like then that the diuels they do onely assume to themselues but a phantasticall body Physiologus And it is like then that the diuels they haue onely in men but a phantasticall possession which is the very same issue you were brought vnto before when we discoursed of the mental possession of diuels Philologus How now Lycanthropus are you brought to a non-plus before you well wiste Lycanthropus I wot not I assure you which waies to winde my selfe out from these windings and turnings howbeit for any thing hitherto heard I will neuer beleeue but that the diuell can assume to himselfe a true naturall bodie Orthodoxus What man will you with such setled pertinacie dwell in your opinion not hauing sound reason therefore Lycanthropus Yes sir I haue reasons and authorities both support me therein Orthodoxus Let vs first heare your reasons Lycanthropus With verie good will wherein first from the like I doe reason thus The good Angels of God they haue appeered to men in assumed bodies therefore spirits and diuels they may also appeere vnto men in assumed bodies Orthodoxus Your argument is faultie the same not consisting of things essentially alike in euery respect For neither haue the infernall diuels those heauenly priuiledges which the celestiall Angels enioy neither yet are they equall with them in knowledge and power So as although the good Angels doe sometimes assume to themselues essentiall bodies yet doth it not necessarilie folow that therefore the euill Angels or diuels are able to do the like Againe howsoeuer the good Angels haue at some time assumed essential bodies yet doth it not appeer and your selfe cannot prooue that they created those bodies themselues but by the prouident power and appointment of God they had them from else where for that speciall seruice whereunto they were sent Moreouer there is no sound consequence in this viz. Good Angels they do visible appeere vnto men in assumed bodies therefore euill Angels they doe the like This I say doth not folow because of the good Angels appearing in visible bodies we haue had often and manifest experience but of the euill Angels appearing so no example or instance at all can be giuen Briefly your argument is but a deceaueable Elench from a may be to the being indeed whereof no certeine conclusion can folow For thus you reason Good Angels haue appeared to men in assumed bodies therefore spirites and Diuels they may also appeare vnto men in assumed bodies This your may be concludeth nothing for certeine Whereas you should haue argued thus Good Angels appeare in assumed bodies therefore spirits and diuels do appeare vnto men in assumed bodies but then your consequent woulde haue been ouer-hard to prooue and besides that it is the very question it selfe By the premisses then it is very apparant that this your first reason hath in it no reason at all to support your opinion Lycanthropus But sith it is certeine that the good Angels doe oftentimes appeare in assumed bodies why should not spirites and diuels be able to do the like Orthodoxus As though because the omnipotent God doth furnish and endowe his heauenly messengers with sensible bodies when and so oft as seemeth good to himselfe therefore euery impotent and infernall spirit or diuell is able also to do the like at their pleasures Lycanthropus Why may not the Lord do as much for spirits and diuels Orthodoxus The Lord may do whatsoeuer he please that it will be his good pleasure to do this which you dreame of who can certeinly say His pleasure in the one hath beene made apparant vnto vs by often experience for the other we haue neither worde nor promise nor example to my remembrance Exorcistes Yes there is a plaine proofe heereof in the Psalmes where Dauid saith plainly that the Lord powred foorth the fiercenes of his wrath vpon the Egyptians by sending his euill Angels among them Orthodoxus What vnderstand you by the euil Angel there Exorcistes Those spirits and diuels wherewith they were dailie tormented Orthodoxus Consider diligentlie the story concerning the Egyptian plagues and tel me where you find any one diuel afflicting them nay tel me what one plague was among them which was not inflicted vpon them by the message and ministery of Moses and Aaron And therefore you are deepely deceiued in mistaking these words by sending the Angels or messengers of euils Which place Tremellius vnderstands not of spirites and Diuels sent among them but of Moses and Aaron rather whom the Lord sent to the Egyptians as his only Angels that is the only messengers and executioners of all those his euils which were cast vpon Egipt And this sense is in my opinion according to the purpose coherence and scope of the Psalme it selfe Lycanthropus But it is as Exorcistes saith in the vulgar translation Orthodoxus It is true and therefore let it so stand as he saith for euil Angels I meane for spirits and diuels But now tel me withal how much this place doth make for the assuming of bodies by
essentiall being The rather because euery creature else how contemptible soeuer being once created it hath an essentiall substance and if the basest of all then much more the Angels they being indeed such excellent creatures Pneumatomachus Well goe to how next from their effectuall operations Orthodoxus Thus their operations haue beene and now are apparantly euident to all the world whether we respect the Lord or his church So that for any to doubt of their essentiall being is to call in question the sun-shine at mid-day and as wel may he denie their operations whatsoeuer Pneumatomachus Good sir is this your substantiall proouing of Angels and Spirits I denie that the Lord God euer created any Angels at all and then to what purpose doe you vrge their supposed operations Orthodoxus Sith you so confidently denie both Spirits and Diuels tell me what you imagine those to be which we generally hold for Spirits and Angels Pneumatomachus Sir I take those your supposed spirits for none other matters at all but the good or euill motions and affections arising in men as also those your imagined Angels I hold them to bee nothing else but the sensible signes or tokens of Gods vnspeakeable power Orthodoxus You do then conclude it should seeme that our faith concerning those matters is grounded altogither vpon bare supposals and idle imaginations of wandring braines I like well your plainnes in laying open your minde although I alowe not your pestiferous opinions iumping so pat with the Parepateticall and Sadusaicall sort Who flatly denying either Angel or Spirite do confidently auouch that there is nothing immortall in man which is a verie dangerous gulph of hell that deuoureth and swaloweth vp all sound diuinitie and sincere knowledge of God For first by opposing your selfe against all the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord what doe you else in effect but implicatiuely reiect the essentiall being of the holy Ghost and then next you do also by consequence verie flatly deny that there is any God at all for what I pray you is God but a Spirite Pneumatomachus Nay sir howsoeuer I oppose my selfe to the catholike opinion of Spirits and Diuels I do confidently auouch and confesse that there is one true euerliuing God of an incomprehensible inuisible and spirituall essence distinguished into the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And moreouer concerning men and my selfe I do with like confidence verie cleerely acknowledge that euerie of vs also are essentiallie endued with spirituall and immortall soules Orthodoxus You cannot faithfully finally hold these infallible truthes from your hart but you must and will presently banish those other palpable errours from out of your brest For euen as Aaron his rodde deuoured foorthwith the counterfeite rods of all the Egyptian Sorcerers so surely these your confessed truths concerning the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord being faithfully held from the hart will in the end I doubt not be another Aaronicall rodde to confute and confound those other Sadusaical sorceries wherewith the Diuel hath so dangerously bewitched your soule Lycanthropus Verie true if he be not to opinionate therein Pneumatomachus Sir howsoeuer I haue beene hitherto opinionate in this speciall point I am notwithstanding very loth that reason should be ouerruled by will or that the holy truth of God should giue place vnto errour and therefore proceed I beseech you in the timely vnfolding of this hidden mysterie Orthodoxus With very good will wherein also for your speedier conceiuing of that which is spoken we will first lay open the originall fountaine from whence this errour floteth abroad and then next hauing fully answered your arguments we wil directly prooue vnto you both Spirits and Diuels Exorcistes A very excellent order For there by first you shall cleere our iudgements and then next you shall the more fully confirme vs in the infallible truth Lycanthropus That is certainly so But what thinkes Pneumatomachos Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse and do promise withall to giue an attentiue eare to whatsoeuer is spoken Orthodoxus Well then to proceede therein accordingly this I dare boldly affirme that your Parepatetical opinion or rather that this your Sadusaicall sorcerie concerning the non being of Spirits and Diuels proceedeth directly from a two-folde false ground Namely first from the naturall corruption of your proper minde and secondly from a carelesse misconstruing of some certeine places of Scripture Both which saide false grounds albeit I could and might well relate them my selfe yet because the first is rather Philosophical then Diuine I do purposely put ouer the prosecuting thereof as of al other like points to this my good brother if it please him to trauell therin reseruing the latter to entreate of my selfe Physiologus Sith it is your good pleasure to haue it so I will gladly giue my endeuour to satisfie the man so it seemeth him good Pneumatomachus With all my hart if first you will tell me who you are and what is your name Physiologus I am I assure you a friend to the truth and my name is Physiologos Pneâ—matomachus In very good time be it spoken But may I be bold by the way to aske you a question without offence Physiologus Propound at your pleasure and aske what you please Pneumatomachus Was not your name also purposely giuen to purport vnto vs your proper nature For Physiologus you say is your name which vnlesse I be fowly deceaued is as much to say as a babler or pratler of naturall Philosophie or it signifieth rather some notable discourser of naturall causes I hope you are none of those cogging companions of whom the Apostle doth wish vs beware who goe purposely about to spoile men with Philosophie and vaine deceit Orthodoxus Nothing lesse For the man I assure you is both a sound Philosopher and a sincere Diuine Neither would I haue you once to imagine that Paul doth there purposely oppose himselfe to all true Philosophie whether naturall or morall no but reprooueth rather that false and counterfeit Philosophie which hauing onely an appearance of truth and not the substance of truth it selfe is cunningly foisted in by cogging companions to spoile and deceiue mens mindes of the truth indeed For otherwaies all true Philosophie is the speciall gift of God and a principall helpe to Diuinitie so far foorth especially as she is made a submissiue Moderatour in naturall causes and not a commaunding Mistres ouer Diuinitie Then I assure you shee comes in her naturall kinde and thrice happie is he that hath a true insight into her according to that old accustomed saying Foelix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas The wight that could all causes skan Might count himselfe an happie man Now then such a Philosopher is this and therefore be bold vpon my warrant to harken freely vnto him concerning the first ground of your errour Pneumatomachus I credit your words let him therefore proceede in his purpose Physiologus
by nature reiecting al maner of compulsion although yet by perswading and alluring they may after a sort be saied to encline and to moue the mind Now then this their enclining you see it consists not in anie essentiall possession but onely in an effectuall operation whereof we wil discourse to the ful when we come to entreate of actual possession In the meane time do now cease for shame to auouch any longer the mental possession of diuels Lycanthropus Wel sir howsoeuer you denie the mental possession of diuels I doubt not but they may haue a corporall possession in men Orthodoxus This point will require a large discourse And therefore let vs here giue ouer a time till after our supper and then if you please we will conferre thereof for an hower or two Physiologus Your motion is good and we willingly yeeld Orthodoxus Then let vs in Gods name arise and depart to my house to a schollers repast Philologus The Lord be blessed for that which he sends Lycanthropus We will willingly attend vpon you The end of the second Dialogue The third Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels do essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie And whether for that purpose they haue peculiar to themselues true naturall bodies The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOM'ACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus HAuing seated our selues in order I would very willingly know what it is that Lycanthropus requireth-concerning the corporall possession of diuels Physiologus Good sir he is old enough to expresse his owne minde let him therefore speake for himselfe Lycanthropus Yea sir I am of age I hope to tell my owne tale howsoeuer I meane not to make you my Proctor Physiologus If you would I were like to speake verie sparingly in so badde a cause vnlesse you could haply corrupt my conscience with a left-handed bribe Lycanthropus Howsoeuer your selfe may haply stand in some neede of a proctorly bribe my cause it standes in no neede of bribe-pursing Proctor Orthodoxus I like not these girding quippes for howsoeuer they demonstrate some sharpenesse of witte they argue much want of a charitable patience Besides that they are nothing to the purpose we come for and therefore good Lycanthropus goe directly to worke and tell me what you desire to know concerning the corporall possession of spirits and diuels Lycanthropus My desire is to know whether spirits and diuels do essentially enter into the bodies of men Orthodoxus For answere hereunto it shall not be greatly amisse first to shew what the corporall possession of diuels is supposed to be and then next to declare mine owne opinion concerning that point Lycanthropus What I pray you is the corporall possession Orthodoxus It is that whereby the diuell is supposed of some euen really and essentially to enter into and substantially and inherently to dwell in the possessed mans bodie during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion ouer the man whom he so really and personally possesseth Lycanthropus This supposed possession of diuels I suppose is vndoubtedly sound but what is your owne opinion cōcerning this point Orthodoxus My opinion is this namely that the diuels neuer had anie such reall possession in men but onely an actuall possession Lycanthropus Conclude you then that the diuels haue in men no corporall possession at all Orthodoxus If by corporall possession you doe meane that the diuels essentially enter into and inherently dwel in the possessed mans bodie I see then no reason at all but that I may boldly conclude it Neither do I perceiue how your selfe should euer be able to contradict the infallible truth thereof For verie certeine I am that no such essentiall possession is any where extant in all the Bible Lycanthropus Oh yes sir in euery place of the Bible almost especially there where those matters are handled it is said the diuels entred into them that they enter in and dwell there that Christ charged the diuell to come out of the childe and to enter no more into him and so foorth All which places doe plainly demonstrate that the diuels haue really a corporall possession in men at the least Orthodoxus I see no such matter demonstrated frō any of those places Lycanthropus No doe What I pray you can be more plaine then this come out and enter no more into him Is there not a most plaine opposition betweene entring into and going out from And are not the words in the originall and enter no more into him What can be more plaine I beseech you Orthodoxus That there is an apparant opposition betweene entring into and going out from I freely confesse the words also in the originall I plainely approoue although yet I graunt from thence no reall possession Else how vnderstand you this place in the Apocalypse where the Lord saith and I will enter in vnto him What now because the holy Ghost there vseth the verie selfesame word of entring into must we therefore thus grossely imagine that the Lord God he also essentially entreth into the harts of so many as open vnto him by faith and repentance that were too too absurde Also where it is said that after Iudas receiued the soppe then Satan entred into him Albeit the verie selfesame word of entring into be vsed here also yet may we at no hand conclude that therefore the diuell had in him an essential possession no for the holy Ghost else where doth otherwaies expound himselfe saying that the diuel had now darted or thrust into Iudas his hart to betray his maister Making the entring of the diuell into Iudas his hart to be nothing else but a suggesting or thrusting of the entended treason into him as was shewed before Whereupon it is verie apparant you see that this going out and this entring in of the diuel may not so grossely be vnderstood of any real or substantiall possession but onely of an effectual and powerful operation Lycanthropus Nay sir by your patience there is more to be vnderstoode therein then onely an effectual operation For the Euangelist saith thus and entring in they do dwel there Now then dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essentiall entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite Orthododoxus Howsoeuer you insist vpon the bare words of entring and dwelling yet no real possession but onely an effectual operation must be vnderstood thereby Otherwaies what thinke you of this place where our Sauiour saith If any man loue me he wil keepe my word and my father wil loue him and we wil come vnto him and dwel with him Now then to vse your owne reason dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essential entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite And so by consequence if we strictly tye our selues vnto words
Philosophers the aire is rather passiue then actiue because his proper qualitie is thought to be liquide Howbeit heate and cold are said to be actiue but drinesse and humiditie passiue qualities Moreuer it hath beene prooued by manifest and daily experiments that the aire is both passible and corruptible and may easily be corrupted and changed And therefore if the Diuels haue airie bodies they are subiect to corruption and dissolution and so by consequence the Diuels they should be indued with mortal bodies as was affirmed before Lycanthropus But manie for all this doe flatly auouch that the Diuels haue either fierie or aierie or waterie or earthlie bodies yea such bodies as can feele and be felte both hurt and be hurt in so much as they lament when they are stricken and being put to the fier are burnt And that they themselues continually burne in such sort as they leaue ashes behinde them as hath beene manifestly prooued in the borders of Italie Physiologus If you lend you eares to the opinion of the Platonists or but listen a while to the dotages of dreaming Psellus they will fill your head full of these and such other Italian tales wherein it were more ease for a man to beleeue them then to run into the borders of Italie to reprooue them of falsehood Howbeit if Diuels in deede should haue elementarie bodies they could not be eternal For the elements they haue in them both heate and cold drinesse and moisture yea such actiue and passiue qualities both as by contending together continually must needes in the end be vtterly dissolued And therefore these toyes which the Platonistes and Psellus doe tattle abroad are matters that cleaue together like thombe-roppes of sand hauing in them no soundnes of truth Besides that their Philosophie herein is very improbable for if the Diuel be earthie he must needes be palpable if he be palpable he must needes kill the man into whom he really entreth Also if he be of earth created then must he be visible and vntransformable concerning that point for Gods creation cannot be annihilated by any deuise of the creature So as although it were graunted that the Diuels might adde to their being either matter or forme yet very certaine it is they cannot possibly diminish or alter the substance whereof they consist As not to be spiritual or to relinquish and leaue earth water fire aire or this or that element whereof they were first created and made But howsoeuer they imagine of water of aire or of fire very certaine I am that the earth must alwaies be visible and palpable yea and the aire must be alwaies inuisible and fire must be hote and water must be moist And of these three latter bodies especially of water and aire no shape nor forme can naturally be exhibited to mortall mens eies by any possible meanes of the creature Lycanthropus Well yet for any thing heard I can hardly be perswaded but that Diuels haue their proper and peculiar bodies Orthodoxus I haue forborne a long time to speake in hope that Physiologus and your selfe would haue growen to some issue concerning this point But sith you persist in your fond opinion doe tell me what it is that makes you imagine the Diuels to haue also their bodies Lycanthropus This especially perswades me vnto it I finde in the scriptures fower sortes of spirites Namely first a diuine spirit which only is God who although he be a spirit yet hath he no need of a bodie touching either his being or his working The second are Angelical spirites namely Angels and Diuels who albeit they neede no bodies at all in respect either of their being or of their proper actions yet neede they their bodies in communicating their actions vnto vs. The third are humane spirites who in regard of their essential being doe neede no bodies for they really exist and liue being disioined asunder from their bodies Although yet concerning their organical actions appertaining especiallie to the vegetatiue sensitiue life they at no hand may want their proper bodies The fourth and last sort are brutish spirites which neither can be nor do any thing at al without their bodies By al which it is cleare that of these foure sorts of spirits the diuine spirit alone the omnipotent God I meane he needeth no bodie al the rest they haue al neede of and doe also enioy their owne bodies for the vse of themselues and of others and this either to helpe or to hurt And for these selfesame respects the very diuels also themselues do stand in neede of their bodies Orthodoxus By this your distribution of spirites it doth plainlie appeare that spirites and diuels they neede no bodies at al touching either their beeing or working For first they haue their essentiall beeing without anie body in as much as they are spiritual substances and then next they neede also no bodies concerning their proper actions for they loue they hate they affect they doe wil and vnderstand without anie helpe of bodies at al. Lycanthropus I speake not now of their proper but of their ministeriall actions which they cannot possiblie accomplish without their peculiar bodies Orthodoxus And I vnderstand it also of their ministerial actions which they may and do eftsoones accomplish by assumed bodies without any their peculiar bodies at all And heerin also I speake onely of good Angels but goe to proceede in framing your argument Lycanthropus I frame it thus Ministers they cannot possiblie accomplish their appointed ministerie to those that liue in the bodie without hauing a bodie But the Angels are all ministring spirits for such saued ones as liue in the bodie therefore they cannot possibly accomplish their ministerie to them without hauing a body Orthodoxus I vnframe it thus The truth of your proposition is onely particular hauing speciall relation to some certeine kind of ministerie and therefore it doth not nor cannot so generally conclude as you would haue it to doe Because Angels or spirits they may and do eftsoones vndergoe some certeine offices without any assistance of an externall bodie yea euen all their offices whatsoeuer they might and could wel vndertake without any bodie at all if it so seemed good to the Lord. Howbeit some other offices againe they doe execute in bodies not because there is otherwaies in themselues a defect for that work but for their sakes onely to whom they are sent Neither is it of any necessitie that the Angels for some speciall respects should alwaies consist vpon and haue peculiarly vnto them their owne proper bodies because for such speciall respects they may and haue eftsoones assumed to themselues some other bodies from else where Howbeit what need of assuming of bodies at all if Angels and spirits be alwaies endued with their proper and peculiar bodies No surely then to assume where no assuming of bodies in deed but rather a stretching out a rending and dissoluing of substances
spirits and diuels Thus you reason The Lord sent his euil Angels among the Egyptians therefore spirits and diuels they assume to themselues what bodies they please This consequent hath in it no sequel at al and it is quite contrary to the words of the text For Dauid saith not that the Lord sent his euil Angels essentially into them but among them I meane the Egyptians which proueth nothing for Satan his assuming of bodies Exorcistes But yet we haue a notable example concerning this point from the diuel his tempting of Euah in the serpent Orthodoxus Wel go to frame your argument Exorcistes I frame it thus Satan he did put vpon him the body of the serpent and spake very sensibly in that selfesame serpent therefore spirits and diuels they can and are able to do the like with any body els whatsoeuer Philologus Maister Orthodoxus this argument I beleeue will set you hard Orthodoxus Not so hard as you thinke by then the ambiguous termes are opened more plainely And therefore doe tell me here what you meane by satan his putting the serpents body vpon him Exorcistes I meane this namely that he did really and essentially enter into the very essence and substance of the serpent it selfe Orthodoxus Then it must folow by necessary consequence that the diuel himselfe did essentially become the serpent in deed or the serpent essentially the diuel at least during the whole time of that action Lycanthropus Yea what else Orthodoxus Do you aske me what else I aske you for answere whether your hart be so deeply bewitched with blindnesse as you cannot perceiue the absurdity hereof it beeing so apparantly euident to all the world For is it possible thinke you that the diuel should be able vtterly to annihilate the essētiall being either of himselfe or of any other creature vnder the heauens Or is it likely that satan can cause himsele to be a diuel or no diuel and the serpent to be a serpent or no serpent when and so oft as it pleaseth himselfe If this were certeinely so what one creature in al the world could any long time continue in that proper estate wherein it was first created of God For the diuel hath wil and malice enough to do mischiefe if he had but that absolute power to accomplish the same Moreouer from satan his assuming of the serpents body alone you doe plainely conclude an absolute power in diuels ouer all other bodies else whatsoeuer and so from one perticular example you do cunningly gather a generall conclusion thus Satan he did essentially assume the body of the serpent therefore spirits and diuels can essentially assume what bodies they please This argument is vtterly vntrue in euery part For first whereas I plainely deny that the diuel can so essentially assume a body the which thing you should proue your selfe by a pitifull begging of the cause in question do take it as graunted and thereupon would proue the same by the same attributing also to the diuel such an absolute power therein as is vtterly impertinent to any creature and thereby also you doe highly derogate from the diuinity and power of God Secondly your argument also is faulty in that it concludeth more largely then was put downe in the premisses namely from one particular practize of satan it concludes an absolute power as was said ouer al bodies whatsoeuer which is a deceiueable kind of reasoning For albeit we should grant which will neuer be proued that satan had for that once some speciall preuiledge granted from God and did thereby also essentially enter into the very essence of the serpent as your selfe suppose yet doth it not folow that therefore spirits and diuels they can also essentially assume to themselues what bodies they please Howbeit to the end we may the more directly and plainely proceed doe tell me whether it was the diuel alone or the serpent alone or the diuel and serpent together that gaue the onset vpon Euah in that temptation Philologus It could not be the diuell alone for he is not named at all in the action Orthodoxus If he be not named at all in the action how comes he then to be charged for the principall author in that selfesame action Exorcistes In other places of scripture his malice that way is mightily tainted and himselfe accused for a murderer from the beginning although in the historie of Euahs tentation he be not precisely named any author at all Orthodoxus Yea but how can those places of Scripture in anie sounde reason impose the blame of the action vpon satan himselfe if neither absolutely nor properly nor historically nor Allegorically nor metaphorically nor any waies else he be specially named in that very historie of Euahs tentation wherein the action it selfe with the seuerall circumstances is fully and plainely expressed Exorcistes Moses you know doth not set downe the story of the Bible at large but onely compiles the same in a summary abridgement Orthodoxus But that action especially being so waighty a matter was necessary to be knowen in euery point and therefore it is not to be doubted but that the history concerning the same is so exactly set forth with euery circumstance as that any man may be able to iudge of the principall actors therein at the least So then although the diuel in that history be neither absolutely nor historically nor properly expressed by name yet must we acknowledge him to be therein allegorically and metaphorically set forth at the least or otherwaies impose no blame vpon him at al concerning the action Lycanthropus Yes euen by that selfesame story he is allegorically or metaphorically set forth in the serpent Orthodoxus Then was it no natural serpent but the diuel himselfe metaphorically set forth by the name of a serpent who gaue the onset vpon Euah in that tentation For by allegories and metaphors there is euermore some other thing ment then that which is literally expressed Lycanthropus But yet for all that the serpent is said to haue tempted Euah Orthodoxus That is the diuel alone metaphorically set forth as you say by the name of a serpent was he that tempted our grandmother Euah I proue it thus If in that action the diuel himselfe be not historically and properly but allegorically and metaphorically called a serpent because he is most crafty and subtile then vndoubtedly the obiection of a serpent is very inconuenient but the antecedent is true and therefore also the consequent Exorcistes Proue your antecedent Orthodoxus I wil. First besides that which you grant your selfe it is an accustomed thing in the sacred scriptures to vse the names of other creatures in setting forth to our sense the intellectual creatures themselues Hereupon it is that in the Apocalypse the diuel by a perpetual allegory is called a dragon or serpent and therefore in this history of Euahs tentation by the like perpetuall allegory he is also called a serpent Secondly Moses in that action doth purposely
no affliction at all Whereupon it doth necessarily follow that euen as that which diminisheth the apprehension diminisheth also the affliction it selfe so surely on the other side that which encreaseth the apprehension it encreaseth also the delectation intended But a melodious sound or musicall harmony it draweth vnto it the minds attention and therewithall retracteth the same from the offered affliction And so by consequence it might very well lessen those torments which satan did actually inflict vpon Saul in as much as it drew the minds attention vnto it and withdrew the same for that present from any such apprehension of the torments inflicted but by no meanes in it selfe the same might vtterly expell the actuall possession of the spirit in Saul if any such were Exorcistes If those torments actually inflicted by satan might something be lessened then might they also be totally remooued For seeing that spirits and diuels as your selfe doth affirme are vnable at their owne pleasures to alter the essentiall qualities of any true naturall matter to serue their owne turne but must doe it by meanes of some corporall actiues it followeth consequently that they are also of themselues vnable to afflict any man actually but must do it by meanes of some such corporall actiues as are able very aptly to dispose the passiue matter it selfe to an apt apprehension of the afflictiue action in the party possessed And then according to your owne reason a little before such a disposition by corporall or sensible meanes may eftsoones be wel procured in the body of man as may make the same body become vtterly vnapt for the present to apprehend any the actuall torments of satan As for example the disease called mania which as Damascene reports is a perpetuall fury very mightely disposed to an alienation of mind and so by consequence a disease very apt to the speedy apprehension of any Demoniacall affliction enforced vpon it And yet notwithhanding this said Demoniacall passion proceeding thence as the same may by sensible meanes and physicall medicines be mightely abated so may it in like manner be thoroughly and perfitely cured it being as physitions affirme an infirmity eftsoones very curable But the disease it selfe being perfitely cured that former disposition of the body which was naturally enclined to the speedy apprehension of those selfesame Demoniacall torments so answerable vnto it is in like manner remooued or staied and so by consequence the actiue affliction of satan it may be vtterly expelled from men by an vtter expelling before of the passiue disposition correspondent thereto in the party possessed Now then if a melodious harmony hath in it selfe an apparant efficacy for the present appeasing of passions and greefes of the mind and for the timely procuring of present delights as experience approoueth and Augustine flatly affirmeth it followeth consequently that that selfesame melodious sound which by a sensible or meere naturall quality did vndoubtedly alter the mental passions in Saul the same might also quite change the minds inclination so farfoorth at the least as that selfesame disposition which was naturally inclineable before to the speedy apprehension of satan his actiue affliction was vtterly remooued and thereby also the foresaid affliction it was throughly and perfitely cured Physiologus Wel sir. Thus much first you do fully confesse in your answere namely that by a melodious sound or some sensible meanes there may wel be procured in the bodies humours of men such an apt disposition as the torments actually inflicted by satan may vndoubtedly be abated or lessened Howbeit from thence also you would further inferre that therefore those the said torments actually inflicted by Satan they may in like manner be totally expelled The reason of which your said inference is vndoubtedly this Namely for that by an vtter remoouing of the passiue disposition apprehending those torments inflicted the actiue operation of Satan is likewise vtterly remooued And so when the diuell to our seeming afflicteth no more we must then be perswaded that the euill spirit is vndoubtedly departed from thence and the partie possessed is quite deliuered This I suppose is the verie summe of your inference and the reason also it selfe wherewith you would mannage the matter Exorcistes Yea sir it is wholie the same Physiologus Then this I must tell you for truth that your assertion it is too too absurde and grounded altogither vpon phantasticall and idle conceits For first you imagine there can be no actuall possessions at all vnlesse some naturall disposition or passion at least do offer before hand a free passage thereto This I assure you is vtterly vntrue as may plainly appeere in the person of Saul himselfe of whom we entreate For he in all perfection of nature excelled his brethren by much or any man else in that age He being a goodly yoong man and faire so as among all the children of Israell there was none more goodly then Saul being also from the shoulders vpward much higher then any any in Israell Thus then you see there was no such redundancie of humors nor no other such naturall defects in Sauls constitutiō as might make him the more naturally disposed to the speedie apprehension of any those actuall afflictions which satan inflicted vpon him And yet notwithstanding all this the text it telleth vs plainely that the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euill spirit was sent from the Lord to vexe him withall Secondly you doe no lesse fondly imagine againe that the diuell he is quite gone and departed when he doth not apparantly and actually afflict the possessed The vntruth of this idle conceite we neede not discouer at all it being more apparantly euident then the Sunne-shine at mid-day For the diuell eftsoones he slippeth aside according to sensuall appearance when yet in deed and in truth he still continueth his actuall residence Yea this your idle conceit as it fighteth directly with the faith of those Scriptures which affirme an actuall afflicting but by times and by turnes so doth it cracke the whole credit of that your falslie supposed possession in the yoong man at Mahgnitton who as your owne selfe confesseth and many others can testifie was onely afflicted by fittes and but at seuerall seasons Thirdly you do as fondly imagine that the parties howsoeuer possessed of satan they are neuer actually afflicted vnlesse there be naturally in them before a passiue disposition for the timely apprehension of the intended actuall possession which is euery way more false and vntrue then any of your other conceits Because neither the actuall possession nor the actuall affliction do necessarily proceed from any affection or disposition in nature or from any the absolute power of the diuell but from the onely prouident appointment the powerfull permission and predominant purpose of the onely omnipotent God Who is ergon synergos that is a free and effectuall worker in the workes of all
your selfe the maine or principall actor that thereby you may arrogate to your selfe the glory due vnto God Exorcistes That is no part of my purpose And howsoeuer the Lord alone be the onely efficient of euery such admirable action yet in sundry scriptures you know it is an ordinary vse with the Lord eftsoones to grace his Ministers with that selfesame glory of the work which is proper alone to himselfe Orthodoxus Wee are not ignorant of the course of the scriptures concerning that point Howbeit when you seeme as hetherto you haue done to speake of your selfe besides the scope of the scriptures you must pardon vs then though we esteeme not your words as canonicall scriptures But goe to you cast foorth the diuel you say now by the power of God Do tel me therefore I pray you whether you acknowledge not that selfe-same power of the Lord a mere supernaturall power and much beyond the shallow reache of any your natural faculty to attaine vnto Exorcistes Yes I acknowledge so much Orthodoxus By what meanes then did your selfe so effectually apprehend that selfe same supernaturall power of God Exorcistes By the onely meanes of my praier and fasting as I told you before Orthodoxus And I also did verely suppose you had heard enough before concerning the insufficiency of that selfesame meanes considered alone in it selfe But go to you apprehended that supernaturall power of the Lord you say by the onely meanes of your praier and fasting Doe tel me therefore where you haue any promise throughout the whole scriptures that your praier and fasting for an effectuall apprehending of that power of the Lord in any such extraordinary actions shall be effectually heard of the Lord Exorcistes Why sir our Sauiour Christ he hath giuen an infallible promise concerning euerie such action saying Whatsoeuer you aske the Father in my name he will giue it vnto you Orthodoxus Do you imagine that those words of Christ containe such a promise as tendeth directly to an absolute warrant for euerie such enterpise how extraordinarie soeuer Exorcistes I do more then imagine for I make no question thereof Orthodoxus Well then put case you your selfe by praier and fasting should vndertake to entreate the Lord foorthwith to sende fire from heauen for the admirable destruction of antichrist himselfe and all his adherents would that selfesame petiton be graunted vnto you in an onely regard of your praier and fasting Exorcistes The prophet Elijah by his onely praier obtained as great a matter as this from the Lord. Orthodoxus You wot not I perceiue now what spirit you are of Doe first prooue directly vnto vs that you haue Elijah his spirit and then proceed in Gods name to Elijah his practise spare not Howbe it because from this generall promise of Christ you doe grosly imagine that very selfesame warranted assurance for the powerfull expelling of spirits by praier fasting which Elijah obtained against Azariah and his seruants by that his speciall praier to God I am willing you should dwell in that your preposterous opinion so you can demonstrate the truth thereof by any probabilitie or reason and therefore doe frame your owne argument from that selfesame promise Exorcistes I frame it thus Whosoeuer asketh any thing of God in the name of Christ he shall vndoubtedly obtaine his request But so many as by praier and fasting doe craue an extraordinarie power for the powerfull expelling of spirits they aske something of God in the name of Christ therfore they shal vndoubtedly obtaine their request Orthodoxus The verie frame of your argument is scarce in good frame For your assumption now as all men may plainely perceiue is absurdly fallen into a fearefull consumption Because howsoyour owne selfe by these preposterous practises presumed most grosly to prophane the name of Christ as hitherto you haue done verie certeine it is that such a request may not truely be said to be either made or put vp in the name of Christ. For to aske any thing truely in the name of Christ is either to aske that which onely appertaines to the glorie of his name and kingdome alone or else that thing especially which for our speciall good we hope to obtain at the hands of our God through the gratious prerogatiue of Christ his name After the first maner of asking Elijah he called for fire from heauen and the Apostles being fearefullie threatned entreated the Lord to stretch foorth his arme that healing and signes and woonders might be done by the name of his holie sonne Iesus After the second maner of asking doe all the faithfull entreate the Lord by praier and fasting for such spirituall graces as do necessarily concerne their owne and others saluation in Iesus Christ. And hereunto onely that the forenamed generall promise made by Christ hath a more speciall relation Now then that first maner of asking things in the name of Christ being onely peculiar to such as haue some speciall motion from the holie spirit of God for such speciall requests it specially behooueth your selfe in these your admirable enterpizes to be vndoubtedly assured of some such speciall motion from that selfesame spirit of God or euer you giue the aduenture so boldly vpon such an extraordinarie practise of any your praiers and fastings Otherwise this promise of Christ it appertaineth no further vnto you then you haue an apparant warrant from the word it selfe for the ordinarie disposing of those your second maner of sutes by the gracious prerogatiue of Christs name Exorcistes Why sir I had the plaine worde of Christ for my warrant where he telleth vs plainely that that this kind goeth not foorth but by praier and fasting Orthodoxus I was verely perswaded you had taken your fill of that text before But seeing you will fasten vpon this portion of scripture afresh I am very well willing you shall haue your full pleasure thereof And therefore doe tel me plainely I pray you whether by the words this kind in that place you do only distinguish spirits and diuels from all other creatures or whether you do seuerally consider those diuels themselues according to their sundry conditions Exorcistes Nay sir I doe thereby seuerally distinguish spirits and diuels among themselues vnderstanding by the words of Christ onely those principall spirits which can no otherwaies be expelled but by praier and fasting Orthodoxus And haue all sorts of spirits or but onely those principall diuels an actuall possession in men Exorcistes Vndoubtedly all sorts of diuels haue an actuall possession in men and may by a commaunding power be compelled to depart howbeit those principall spirits whereof Christ more especially entreateth they cannot possibly be expelled but by praier and fasting as an ordinary meanes appointed of God Orthodoxus As in this answerelesse answere you would haue men imagine that a bare ordinary meanes by your ingenious handling thereof is able to effect many extraordinary matters