doe set upon the Minster again and do accuse him saying Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother yea thou hast slandred thine own Mothers Sonne ANSWER If you were not a man of a corrupt minde you would never I feare me vent such stuffe as this do you not tremble are you not afraid to dally thus with the word of God They are likened by some you say to women scoulding and accusing one another And with whom I pray should the Minister scould or who is it that he should accuse if at any time he should chance to read thus to the people alone I hope you would shrink out and be none of his auditors for feare he should scould with you accuse you for consenting with a thief note you for a partaker with adulterers a speaker against thy brother or tell thee that thou hast slandred thine own Mothers sonne away therefore with such impious cavils and dally not thus with the word of God These scoffes are fitter for Pagans then for Christians especially if they consider how dangerous a thing it is to sport themselves with holy things Be not angry Man for I do but reprove thee and set before thee the things that thou hast done I retort with as much patience as I can no more then what your selfe hath cast abroad Others make points and you take in hand to tag them But alasse we have more much like this a little after which as I meet it shall be answered DIALOGUE Gent. I remember that in the Churching of women the Minister is called Priest tell me I pray you is that a fit name for a Minister and Preacher of the Gospel Min. No verily For we read in Gods word of no more orders of Priests but of two the order of Aaron and the order of Melchisedech Of the order of Aaron were the Leviticall Priests whose office was to offer sacrifices which together with the Sacrifices was abolished in Christ his death Of the order of Melchisedech was Christ only and shall remaine Priest for ever A third order of Priests is to be found no where but in the Masse-book and in our Service-book The name Priest belongeth to every Christian man and woman as well as to the Minister according as it is written Revel 1.6 That Christ hath made us Kings and Priests unto God The meaning is that Christ hath made all the Elect men and women Priests to offer the sacrifices of prayse and of thankes unto God ANSWER The Minister is called Priest and why not I hope you know for you have noted it that all true Christians are called Priests and so Saint Peter as well as Saint John declareth it 1 Pet. 2.5 Revel 5.10 and therefore the Minister in particular may much more be called by that name although he offer none of those Sacrifices which were abolished by Christ nor intend the upholding of the Popish Masse with the blasphemous figments which are there else we condemn the Primitive Church of God in which this name which you here would quarrell with was of frequent use as you cannot but know if you know any thing of the ancient times The Prophet Esay doth * Chapt. 61.6 in one place say the same of Christians in generall which even Saint Peter and Saint John have written and in * Chapt. 66.21 another place declareth that God will choose some from among them to be Priests and Levites which though it be but an allusion doth denote a Priest-hood still and this to confist of an imparity as well as of old among the Jewes Besides were it so that the Minister might not be called Priest no more then any other Christian because the Scripture saith of every Christian man and woman Yee are an holy Priest-hood are made Kings and Priests unto God Then would it sollow first that none in particular should be a King And secondly that neither might any among the Jews have been a publike Priest or called by that name because the same which was said to Christians was also said to them when out of the Mount God sent them his message by his servant Moses Yee have seen saith the Lord what I did unto the Aegyptians and how I bare you on Eagles wings and brought you unto my selfe Now therefore if yee will obey my voice indeed and keep my Covenant then yee shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people for all the earth is mine And yee shall be unto me a kingdome of Priests and an holy Nation Exod. 19.4,5,6 It is also warranted by that of Saint Paul in Hebr. 7.12 where if you mark it you shall finde that Priesthood is not taken away but translated or changed onely and so also Irenaeus saith lib. 4. c. 34. And as for the testimonies out of the other Fathers they are so common as I need not mention them only let me say that you may finde the name both of Priest and Priest-hood in the writings of Ignatius that Martyr already mentioned who as you know was scholler to Saint John that wrote the Revelation This strife of words you should therefore carefully avoid it doth but disquiet unstable soules Grant then that name without quarrelling to him which the Scripture not onely gives to every true member of the Church but foretold it in some sort of even the Evangelicall Ministers in more particular where though the Prophet mentions Levites also who were properly so called in regard of their tribe yet as is probable enough he means not that therefore the name of Priest should not be used no more then that of Levite for except those Priests to which he alludeth had had their name only in respect of such Sacrifices as then were offered and to be ended at the death of Christ and not in regard also of other duties which are common to us and them which neither are nor may be abolished I see no reason to think otherwise To teach and blesse the people were the services of the Priests both before the Law and under the Law as well as now Melchisedech was a Priest before the Law and blessed Abraham to whom also Abraham paid his Tythes Gen. 14.19,20 Nor was it but said to Aaron and his sonnes under the Law That they should teach the sonnes of Israel all the Statutes which the Lord hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses Levit. 10.11 and in Malachy it stands recorded The priests lips should keep knowledge and they should seek the Law at his mouth for he is the Messenger of the Lord of hosts Malach. 2.7 and in Ezekiel They shall teach my people the difference between the holy and prophane ch 44.23 and in 6 Num. the 6 last verses The Lord spake unto Moses saying speak unto Aaron and to his sonnes saying On this wise yee shall blesse the children of Israel saying unto them The Lord blesse thee and keep thee The Lord make his face shine upon thee and be gratious unto the The Lord lift
the Tench is commonly called the Phisitian of other fishes And although I want leisure to search further yet on the suddaine this I find That the fat of fresh river fishes molten and mingled with oyle and hony are of great excellency for the clearenesse of the eyes and if the fat of some fishes why not of some their gall I conclude therefore that more happy is hee who by his paines and industry can find out the causes of things than he who is so singular as to account all fables but his owne fancies DIALOGUE Minist On the thirtieth of September another lying fable is appointed to be read of an Angell that was sent to scale the whitenesse from his eyes and to give Sara the daughter of Raguel to his son Tobias in marriage and to bind Asmodeus an evill spirit that was in love with her and had killed seven men that had bin married unto her ANSWER You care little for method I see September else had beene before October But to let that passe and come to the matter in hand Though I thinke no man bound to beleeve any further of this which you tearme another lying fable than himselfe pleaseth yet this is certaine that the Scriptures themselves declare how the Angels are sent on Gods arrants and have sometimes appeared not onely to punish the wicked but also to do good offices for the godly as when Lot was led out of Sodom two Angels came unto him and left him not untill they had set him in safety Nor was the Poole of Bethesda but moved by an Angell after which motion hee that first stepped in was healed of whatsoever infirmitie he had The Scriptures also mention that the Angels are all ministring spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be heires of salvation Hebr. 1.14 and that the good Angels sometimes fight against the bad Revel 12.7 and that they pitch their tents round about those that feare God Psalm 34.7 The Scriptures saith Saint Austin Aug de civit Dei â—…b 15. c. 23 plainely averre that the Angels have appeared both in visible and palpable figures Which saying of his is verified even by that already mentioned concerning the Angels which came to Lot at Sodom for Lot saw them in the likenesse of men talked with them and had tryall of the palpablenesse of their bodies even when they put forth their hands and pulled him into the house if not also when they led him out of the Citie An Angell of the Lord appeared likewise unto Gideon in the likenesse of a man with a staffe in his hand Judges 6.21 And how Manoah and his wife were instructed by an Angell concerning the birth and education of their sonne Sampson is recorded in the thirteenth chap. of the same booke of Scripture By all which it appeareth that there is no absolute necessitie that this which you mention should be therefore fabulous because an Angell was sent among them For the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is Nuncius in Latine as you know and that in English is a Messenger It comes from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is Mitto To send and therefore the word Angell is no name of Nature but of Ministery or Office as is observed by the Fathers And as for that which is next of the evill spirit being in love with the daughter of Raguel I finde in the writings of some Authours that which I am sure is nothing against it And first of all I shall mention that which is certaine namely that some both places and persons have beene haunted by evill spirits and therefore it is not altogether improbable to think some such thing of Saras bed and Chamber The more unlikely is that the evill spirit should have liberty to kill her seven Husbands and yet wee know that the Devill hath had leave sometimes to doe the like as in that * See also Psal 78.49 example of Iobs servants and his children recorded in the first Chapter of the booke of Iob is plainely manifest But the most unlike is that this evill spirit should bee in love a thing which comes something neere to that interpretation which Lactantius gives Lact. lib. 2. cap. 15. of the Sonnes of God and the daughters of Men in Genesis the sixt the second namely that they should take them Wives have carnall action with them and by that meanes bee kept out of Heaven and cast to the Earth who thereupon became agents and officers for the devill and his angels who were fallen long before Now against this Saint Austin comes with a firme beliefe for though he seemes to yeeld rather than deny some such thing concerning Devils as I shall afterwards mention yet he firmely beleeves the contrary concerning Gods Angels And as for devills Michael Psellus affirmeth out of one Marke a great Daemonist that the watery and earthly Devils have such bodies as are nourished like spunges with attraction of humour affirming also that they have certaine genitours cast forth sperme and produce by which I think he meanes the Fairies diverse little creatures The Aegyptians say that the devils can only accompany carnally with Women and not with Men. Plutarch goeth further and saith That the Fables of the Gods signified some things that the Devils had done in the old time And there are saith Ludovicus Vives Com. in Aug. De civit Dei lib. 15. c. 23. a people at this day which glory that their discents are from the Devills who accompanied with Women in Mens shapes and with Men in Womens Whereto agreeth that which is reported of Merlin that hee was begotten of a spirit Nor is it but a generall report and averred by many either from their owne tryall or from others that are of indubitable honestie and credit as saith Saint Austin that the Sylvanes and Faunes commonly called Incubi have often injured Women desiring and acting carnally with them And that certaine Devills whom the Frenchmen call Dusies do continually practise this uncleannesse and tempt others to it is affirmed by such persons and with such confidence that it were impudence as saith the same Father to deny it See August De Civitate Dei lib. 15. cap. 23. Much more concerning this may be read in Burtons Melancholy which relations whether they be true or false is not much materiall or suppose them false yet can they make nothing against us it due regard be had to that allowance which Our Church gives to these Bookes Apocrypha DIALOGUE Minist On the first of October another lying fable is appointed to bee read how Tobie being about to send his Sonne Tobias to Rages in Media for a Wife did bid him goe and looke for a man to goe with him and that he went and found an Angell and brought him to his Father who promised to give the Angell wages and agreed with him what he should have by the day and sent him with his sonne and his dog ANSWER Had old Tobie knowne
you finde that our Saviour would have it used for a pattern Min. In the sixt chapter of the Gospel written by Saint Matthew and the nineth verse where it is written that our Saviour said After this manner pray you Our Father which c. ANSWER I would that all in your book could have been as well approved as this for here you speak both the words of sobernesse and truth and I commend you for it DIALOGUE Gent. Why will not the witch acknowledge Christ to be the Lord Min. Because the Devill would have her to take Him and not Christ for her Lord. ANSWER This is mentioned to great purpose I promise you is it not I am loath to trifle away the time in these passages I should else go neer hand to tell you that as Simon Magus was taken for some great one because he had a long time bewitched the people with sorceries so you perhaps would be thought some great one too for your profound knowledge in what passeth between the Devill and witches of which you have so often told us But whilest you are so busie in the Theory of their trade and apply your speculations no better you doe but shew your selfe in your colours to please a company of frantick and mis-perswaded people wilfull and wandring soules who are led with an intemperate spirit as well as you The simple saith Solomon Prov. 14.15,16 beleeveth every word but the prudent man looketh well to his going A wise man feareth and departeth from evill but the foole rageth and is confident Ch. 16. v. 29 30 A violent man entiseth his neighbour and leadeth him into the way that is not good He shutteth his eyes to devise froward things moving his lips he bringeth evill to passe Ch. 15.2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright but the mouth of fooles bableth out foolishnesse And I pray good Sir doe you a little work upon that DIALOGUE Gent. Why doe some say that the Priest and Clarke when they doe Church a woman are like to a couple of players acting their parts Min. Because the Priest doth skip over these words But deliver us from evill and doth leave them to the Clark to say for his part c. ANSWER Before he was like to a Witch but now he and his Clark are likened to Players you will one day be ashamed of this I feare unlesse you act a better part before you leave the stage your present Plaudite may deceive you the future is that which is most materiall But le ts goe on and see what followeth DIALOGUE Min. And then as soon as the Clark hath said them the Priest saith Lord save this woman thy Servant then the Clark comes in again with his part saying which putteth her trust in thee then the Priest as though he would not have the woman to put her trust in him turns her over to the Clark and bids him be unto her a strong Tower then the Clarke answereth and sheweth wherein saying from the face of her enemy ANSWER Oh desperate wickednesse dares any man be so bold as to utter such impieties The first words Lord save this woman thy servant will stand as a sentence against this prophane babler to witnesse against him be he whom he will He a Minister more fit to make a rayling Rabshakeh or a scoffing Michal Let him therefore in time look well unto it lest with prophane Esau he loose his birth-right and be deprived of his heavenly Fathers blessing As well may he tell us that we are to have no other God but the Minister because the Minister reads the first Commandement as vent this thus concerning the Priest and Clark in their Churching of women DIALOGUE Gent. This is a very strange kinde of giving of God thankes for womens safe deliverance from the great pain and perill of Childe-birth Min. It is indeed and no small griefe to honest women not only because there is no thanks given to God for their safe deliverance from the pain and perill of Child-birth but also because thanksgiving is turned to a Jewish kind of Purification For they must come with a vaile to cover their faces after the Jewish manner signifying thereby that by childe-bearing they were made uncleane and that they were ashamed of their uncleannesse or that they had played the Harlots and were ashamed to shew their faces and Juda thought that Thamar was an Harlot because her face was covered with a vaile Gen. 33.14.15 It is a great offence not only to honest women but also to every true Christian man to see his wife goe to the Church like a Jew or like an Harlot ANSWER You have a fine faculty in moulding of matters I see and in fashioning of things according as your selfe thinks good to fancy One while you say it is a strange giving of thanks another while it is no giving of thanks and then again it is a giving of thanks but turned to a Jewish kind of Purification You would make a pretty Proteus I perceive But I will reprove thee and set before thee the things that thou hast done Thou hast let thy mouth speak wickednesse and with thy tongue thou hast set forth deceit according to that of the Psalmist with which you dallied but even now Can I tell how to say otherwise Is here no giving of thanks I marvaile that you blush not nor be ashamed to wrest things contrary to the evidence of open sight I have lifted up mine eyes unto the hills from whence commeth my helpe words sure of thankfulnesse Nay the whole Psalme is an Hymne of Prayse and thanksgiving fitly chosen for such a purpose 2 Chr. 29,30 Moreover Hezekiah the King and the Princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the Seer and they sang prayses with gladnesse and they bowed their â—eads and worshipped 2 Chro 29.30 The Church then you see goes on in a right way and repaires to a worthy store-house for a fitting form But I perceive your drift as if you aymed like T. C. your great Goliah to have no publike thanks in such a case as this because it comes too neer the Jewish kinde of Purification Wherefore I shall answer in more particular and tell you that although that Law as concerning the Ceremony be ceased yet the righteousnesse thereof is to be fulfilled in those which walk not after the flesh but after the spirit Rom. 8.4 For in all things we are commanded to give thanks 1 Thess 5.18 And must offer the Sacrifice of prayse unto God Heb. 13.15 And if for other benefits thanks and praise be due then for this preservation which in Melancthons phrase is Magnum miraculum a great miracle insomuch that if the Childe when he comes to know it will not stick to say with David Psal 139.13 I will give thanks to thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made then may the Mother not refuse who