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life_n write_v writer_n year_n 355 4 4.3464 4 false
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A30189 An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball. Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662. 1642 (1642) Wing B558; ESTC R3127 281,779 264

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arian_n infection_n both_o in_o the_o reign_v of_o constantius_n and_o julian_n the_o apostata_fw-la 3._o athanas_n graecolar_n tom_fw-mi 1._o pag._n 309._o edit_n comelit_fw-la theodor._n hist_o l._n 4._o c._n 3._o pelagius_n a_o britain_n by_o birth_n trouble_v the_o church_n with_o his_o pestilent_a doctrine_n deny_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n attribute_v power_n and_o liberty_n to_o man_n to_o live_v without_o sin_n and_o keep_v the_o commandment_n if_o he_o will_v this_o heresy_n arise_v about_o the_o year_n 405._o or_o 406._o and_o the_o author_n thereof_o draw_v his_o first_o breath_n in_o britain_n 787._o prudent_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d trim._n 13._o speak_v of_o cyprian_a say_v gallos_n fovet_fw-la imbuit_fw-la britannos_fw-la praesidet_fw-la hisperiae_fw-la christum_fw-la serit_fw-la ultimis_fw-la hiberis_fw-la vsser_n de_fw-fr prim_fw-la eccles_n britan._n ca._n 16._o pag._n 787._o but_o he_o sow_v not_o this_o heretical_a doctrine_n in_o britain_n and_o though_o it_o 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what_o if_o you_o do_v not_o read_v that_o diotrephes_n be_v a_o unlawful_a and_o antichristian_a minister_n you_o read_v that_o he_o usurp_v over_o the_o faithful_a hinder_v the_o due_a execution_n of_o church-censure_n abuse_a excommunication_n prate_v against_o the_o brethren_n and_o practise_v a_o false_a government_n and_o if_o the_o want_n of_o discipline_n or_o neglect_n of_o due_a execution_n prove_v a_o church_n to_o be_v no_o church_n the_o faithful_a in_o that_o society_n be_v bind_v to_o separate_v if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o the_o power_n of_o government_n at_o this_o time_n if_o we_o may_v believe_v you_o or_o receive_v your_o position_n they_o be_v no_o church_n if_o they_o have_v power_n in_o their_o hand_n and_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v abuse_v their_o sin_n be_v the_o great_a and_o if_o you_o take_v a_o view_n of_o your_o deal_n in_o this_o or_o other_o particular_n vilify_n what_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o confute_v and_o wrest_v man_n word_n contrary_a to_o their_o plain_a meaning_n if_o your_o paper_n blush_v not_o i_o can_v hardly_o think_v but_o your_o conscience_n will_v smite_v sect_n ii_o if_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o christ_n key_n 154._o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 154._o she_o be_v not_o he_o say_v mr_n d._n but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o christ_n key_n say_v mr_n brightman_n and_o 111._o and_o zion_n plea._n 111._o other_o therefore_o she_o be_v not_o his_o house_n and_o consequent_o to_o be_v separate_v from_o answer_n your_o former_a reason_n out_o of_o mr_n d._n i_o pass_v over_o because_o they_o have_v be_v answer_v already_o and_o be_v here_o thrust_v in_o to_o no_o purpose_n but_o only_o to_o cover_v the_o insufficiency_n of_o your_o reply_n his_o answer_n be_v the_o want_n of_o discipline_n though_o a_o integrall_a part_n be_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n this_o 153._o this_o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a p._n 152_o 153._o you_o offer_v not_o to_o disprove_v by_o any_o substantial_a reason_n but_o with_o rail_v and_o reproach_n to_o disgrace_n wherein_o whether_o you_o more_o wound_v your_o own_o conscience_n or_o hurt_v your_o adversary_n be_v judge_v yourself_o 13.21_o yourself_o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 212._o 1_o pet._n 3.9_o rom._n 13.21_o you_o say_v true_o it_o be_v a_o christian_a part_n not_o to_o render_v rebuke_n for_o rebuke_n and_o a_o thousand_o time_n better_a be_v it_o to_o sustain_v even_o a_o legion_n of_o reproach_n than_o for_o a_o man_n by_o turn_v though_o but_o one_o to_o give_v cause_n of_o suspicion_n that_o evil_a have_v get_v some_o part_n of_o conquest_n over_o he_o but_o if_o you_o look_v into_o your_o own_o writing_n you_o shall_v find_v they_o stuff_v with_o insolent_a boast_n scornful_a taunt_n and_o reproach_n unbeseeming_a your_o place_n person_n and_o a_o good_a cause_n i_o dare_v say_v all_o the_o nonconformist_n that_o ever_o write_v in_o the_o cause_n of_o discipline_n never_o go_v in_o practice_n so_o much_o against_o their_o principle_n as_o you_o in_o this_o one_o particular_a go_v against_o your_o profession_n in_o the_o foresay_a passage_n and_o a_o good_a conscience_n the_o matter_n in_o hand_n betwixt_o you_o and_o mr_n d._n be_v the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o church-discipline_n to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n to_o what_o end_n then_o do_v you_o bring_v that_o the_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n use_v in_o the_o assembly_n of_o england_n be_v a_o infectious_a liturgy_n romish-stuffe_n a_o devise_a service_n rake_v out_o of_o three_o romish_a channel_n that_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v unlawful_a and_o antichristian_a that_o the_o ministry_n worship_n and_o government_n of_o of_o england_n be_v corruption_n do_v this_o make_v aught_o to_o confirm_v your_o position_n or_o weaken_v the_o answer_n which_o be_v true_o give_v but_o some_o thing_n must_v be_v say_v whether_o to_o or_o beside_o the_o purpose_n it_o matter_n not_o another_o stratagem_n 153._o stratagem_n can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 153._o you_o put_v in_o practice_n in_o the_o same_o place_n not_o very_o commendable_a you_o will_v seem_v to_o confute_v the_o d._n out_o of_o himself_o what_o say_v you_o if_o it_o appear_v that_o mr_n d._n argument_n do_v lead_v rather_o to_o separation_n and_o that_o he_o speak_v one_o thing_n and_o practise_v another_o will_v not_o this_o be_v a_o strange_a sight_n especial_o to_o himself_o now_o whether_o this_o be_v so_o we_o will_v here_o try_v by_o some_o reason_n in_o his_o own_o mood_n and_o figure_n but_o though_o the_o mood_n and_o figure_n be_v his_o the_o reason_n be_v your_o own_o and_o not_o he_o and_o the_o conclusion_n unjust_o draw_v from_o the_o premise_n as_o the_o d._n answer_v and_o we_o have_v show_v before_o perhaps_o in_o war_n stratagem_n may_v be_v of_o use_n but_o in_o the_o cause_n of_o god_n such_o cunning_a device_n be_v dangerous_a symptom_n this_o i_o note_v to_o entreat_v your_o serious_a reexamination_n of_o what_o you_o have_v do_v and_o now_o i_o come_v to_o the_o argument_n here_o propound_v whereunto_o i_o make_v answer_n as_o you_o relate_v it_o for_o i_o have_v not_o the_o d._n book_n to_o search_v out_o what_o he_o have_v write_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v twofold_a conciovalis_fw-la &_o judicialis_fw-la as_o it_o be_v usual_o call_v the_o first_o consist_v in_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n wherein_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n be_v open_v to_o the_o penitent_a sin_n remit_v life_n promise_v and_o heaven_n shut_v to_o the_o obstinate_a which_o be_v the_o sword_n and_o the_o sceptre_n of_o christ_n whereby_o he_o save_v his_o people_n 1.16_o 2_o cor._n 1.21_o 2_o cor._n 10.4_o isa_n 11.4_o rom._n 1.16_o and_o conquer_v his_o enemy_n beat_v down_o every_o strong_a hold_n p●ireeth_v to_o the_o division_n of_o foul_a and_o spirit_n and_o of_o the_o joint_n and_o marrow_n and_o judge_v the_o very_a cogitation_n and_o thought_n of_o the_o heart_n these_o effect_n christ_n execute_v by_o his_o word_n even_o when_o it_o be_v not_o assist_v by_o the_o 9_o the_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v to_o remove_v the_o wicked_a &_o irrepentant_a from_o participation_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n lest_o by_o sacrilegious_a presume_v to_o violate_v that_o table_n the_o ungodly_a shall_v condemn_v themselves_o and_o defile_v other_o bilson_n perpet_n gov_fw-mi cap._n 9_o discipline_n speak_v of_o now_o if_o it_o be_v right_o understand_v the_o church_n of_o god_n can_v be_v without_o this_o key_n for_o the_o church_n be_v gather_v by_o the_o word_n and_o be_v a_o company_n or_o society_n which_o have_v receive_v the_o word_n in_o profession_n at_o least_o and_o do_v possess_v it_o and_o among_o who_o it_o dwell_v the_o judicial_a power_n of_o the_o 52._o the_o excommunication_n be_v a_o mere_a spiritual_a punishment_n &_o reach_v no_o further_o by_o god_n word_n than_o to_o take_v from_o offender_n the_o remission_n of_o their_o sin_n by_o want_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n until_o they_o repent_v bilson_n christian._n part_n 3._o pag._n 52._o key_n be_v the_o power_n of_o government_n which_o consist_v principal_o in_o the_o right_a order_n and_o dispensation_n of_o church_n censure_n and_o so_o of_o the_o manner_n and_o necessity_n of_o all_o man_n which_o agree_v not_o to_o any_o one_o member_n nor_o to_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a nor_o to_o any_o one_o singular_a governor_n but_o to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n yet_o with_o due_a respect_n have_v to_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 123._o key_n cyp._n lib._n 1._o epist_n 3._o i_o hardly_o persuade_v the_o people_n yea_o i_o be_o force_v to_o wrest_v it_o from_o they_o before_o they_o will_v suffer_v such_o to_o be_v admit_v bilson_n perpet_n gov_fw-mi c._n 9_o great_a reason_n have_v those_o godly_a father_n to_o see_v the_o whole_a church_n satisfy_v before_o they_o release_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o do_v they_o show_v not_o what_o right_n the_o multitude_n have_v to_o sit_v judge_n with_o the_o bishop_n but_o what_o ●●e_v themselves_o have_v to_o remove_v from_o the_o people_n all_o occasion_n of_o stumble_v id._n pag._n 113._o if_o you_o take_v excommunication_n for_o remove_v the_o unruly_a from_o the_o civil_a society_n of_o the_o faithful_a until_o they_o conform_v themselves_o unto_o a_o more_o christian_a course_n of_o life_n i_o be_o not_o altogether_o averse_a that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v concur_v in_o that_o action_n etc._n etc._n see_v august_n contr_n par_fw-fr ep._n 1_o l._n 2._o ca._n 1._o can._n stay_v sect._n 12._o pag._n 123._o not_o so_o much_o as_o be_v to_o be_v desire_v but_o in_o a_o eminent_a sort_n and_o that_o with_o god_n
maintain_v four_o in_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n the_o true_a doctrine_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n in_o matter_n fundamental_a be_v keep_v but_o so_o as_o the_o live_a member_n may_v err_v both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o manner_n and_o other_o in_o society_n with_o they_o may_v err_v gross_o impenitent_o final_o and_o thus_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v keep_v the_o doctrine_n of_o etc._n of_o chaloner_n credo_fw-la sanct._n 2_o part_n subject_n the_o church_n in_o respect_n of_o its_o outward_a part_n as_o it_o enter_v the_o creed_n be_v not_o only_o a_o outward_a profession_n of_o a_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n but_o a_o profession_n of_o the_o same_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o truth_n and_o that_o the_o church_n in_o this_o sense_n be_v invisible_a gregory_n de_fw-fr valent._n confess_v in_o his_o third_n tom._n upon_o thomas_n disp_n 1_o qu._n 1._o pag._n 7._o sect_n 16._o and_o bellarm_n in_o his_o three_o book_n de_fw-fr eccles_n ca._n 15._o bilson_n christ_n subject_n par_fw-fr 3._o pag._n 305._o the_o visible_a church_n consist_v of_o good_a and_o bad_a elect_a &_o reprobate_a have_v no_o such_o promise_n but_o she_o may_v err_v only_o the_o choose_a of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o true_a member_n of_o his_o body_n proper_o call_v his_o church_n they_o shall_v not_o err_v unto_o perdition_n etc._n etc._n christ_n the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n entire_o without_o addition_n or_o alteration_n though_o in_o the_o government_n and_o administration_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n amiss_o though_o in_o the_o society_n there_o be_v many_o who_o be_v not_o qualify_v as_o sheep_n humble_a and_o meek_a but_o fierce_a and_o cruel_a five_o no_o society_n be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o retain_v not_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n but_o in_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n his_o pure_a worship_n may_v be_v stain_v with_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n which_o may_v well_o be_v spare_v and_o be_v just_o dislike_v thus_o both_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n and_o all_o other_o sort_n and_o sect_n of_o man_n and_o thus_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n be_v for_o substance_n right_o maintain_v though_o the_o nonconformist_n dislike_n and_o the_o conformist_n groan_n under_o some_o ceremony_n not_o abandon_v the_o only_a knot_n here_o to_o be_v unloose_v again_o be_v your_o slander_n against_o the_o nonconformist_n in_o that_o you_o charge_v they_o to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o retain_v the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n and_o now_o i_o shall_v desire_v you_o calm_o to_o consider_v how_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n you_o can_v untie_v a_o knot_n or_o two_o if_o they_o shall_v be_v knit_v for_o you_o in_o this_o wise_a first_o he_o be_v no_o true_a pastor_n of_o jesus_n christ_n who_o gross_o pervert_v the_o scripture_n falsifi_v author_n deceive_v with_o equivocation_n condemn_v the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n as_o pernicious_a idolatry_n and_o the_o etc._n the_o jewel_n upon_o the_o first_o to_o the_o thes_n chap._n 1._o v._n 1._o the_o church_n of_o god_n be_v in_o god_n the_o father_n and_o in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n it_o be_v the_o company_n of_o the_o faithful_a who_o god_n have_v gather_v together_o in_o christ_n by_o his_o word_n and_o by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o honour_v he_o as_o he_o himself_o have_v appoint_v this_o church_n hear_v the_o voice_n of_o the_o shepherd_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v a_o stranger_n but_o fly_v from_o he_o of_o this_o church_n hieron_n in_o mic._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 1._o say_v ecclesia_fw-la christi_fw-la in_o toto_fw-la orbe_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la possidens_fw-la etc._n etc._n society_n of_o saint_n as_o idolatrous_a and_o antichristian_a assembly_n and_o labour_v to_o draw_v christian_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v keep_v and_o maintain_v examine_v your_o writing_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n and_o add_v the_o proposition_n want_v second_o he_o be_v no_o true_a minister_n who_o derive_v his_o authority_n from_o they_o that_o be_v not_o able_a to_o give_v it_o but_o he_o that_o derive_v his_o authority_n from_o the_o people_n derive_v it_o from_o they_o that_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o give_v it_o you_o know_v the_o conclusion_n and_o where_o it_o will_v light_v three_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n be_v the_o true_a flock_n of_o christ_n the_o king_n daughter_n quicken_v by_o the_o spirit_n marry_v unto_o christ_n gentle_a meek_a humble_a retain_v the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n without_o addition_n or_o alteration_n and_o keep_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o spirit_n in_o the_o bond_n of_o peace_n but_o the_o society_n of_o separatist_n be_v not_o the_o true_a flock_n of_o christ_n quicken_v by_o the_o spirit_n humble_a meek_a gentle_a keep_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o spirit_n in_o the_o bond_n of_o peace_n these_o property_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o all_o and_o every_o one_o in_o that_o society_n in_o truth_n according_a as_o in_o the_o former_a proposition_n you_o say_v they_o belong_v to_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n if_o you_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o maintain_v the_o former_a proposition_n against_o man_n as_o you_o vaunt_v i_o do_v not_o believe_v you_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o unloose_v these_o few_o knot_n chap._n v._n sect_n i._o it_o may_v be_v some_o will_v expect_v that_o i_o shall_v write_v something_o of_o their_o lecturer_n 50._o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 49_o 50._o and_o the_o rather_o because_o they_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o many_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o best_a minister_n of_o their_o life_n and_o doctrine_n i_o say_v nothing_o but_o as_o for_o their_o ministry_n sure_o it_o be_v new_a and_o strange_a for_o the_o original_a of_o their_o name_n manner_n of_o entrance_n and_o administration_n be_v unknown_a whole_o to_o the_o scripture_n and_o i_o think_v never_o before_o hear_v of_o till_o in_o these_o latter_a break_a and_o confuse_a time_n therefore_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n when_o the_o question_n have_v be_v propound_v to_o some_o of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v by_o the_o pharisee_n to_o john_n who_o be_v thou_o that_o they_o have_v not_o be_v able_a for_o their_o life_n to_o answer_v to_o answer_v the_o point_n neither_o can_v agree_v among_o themselves_o what_o kind_n of_o ministry_n it_o be_v that_o they_o have_v take_v up_o and_o be_v hard_o press_v for_o resolution_n they_o have_v ingenuous_o confess_v that_o unless_o they_o be_v evangelist_n they_o can_v not_o see_v how_o their_o ministry_n do_v accord_n with_o any_o ministry_n mention_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n this_o i_o write_v upon_o my_o own_o certain_a knowledge_n the_o person_n i_o think_v be_v yet_o live_v who_o name_n for_o some_o reason_n i_o forbear_v to_o express_v howbeit_o i_o can_v and_o will_v do_v it_o if_o i_o see_v there_o be_v a_o just_a and_o necessary_a occasion_n i_o do_v not_o think_v it_o strange_a that_o they_o shall_v thus_o speak_v for_o indeed_o i_o know_v not_o what_o they_o can_v say_v better_o in_o defence_n of_o their_o stand_n pastor_n i_o be_o sure_a they_o will_v not_o say_v they_o be_v for_o first_o they_o do_v not_o take_v any_o particular_a charge_n of_o a_o flock_n upon_o they_o second_o they_o perform_v not_o the_o office_n thereof_o for_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o people_n only_o to_o preach_v and_o not_o to_o administer_v either_o the_o seal_n or_o censure_n to_o they_o three_o their_o come_n unto_o the_o people_n be_v in_o a_o strange_a sort_n for_o they_o make_v a_o covenant_n each_o with_o other_o for_o some_o certain_a year_n and_o when_o that_o time_n be_v out_o both_o party_n be_v free_a and_o so_o may_v leave_v one_o the_o other_o and_o do_v many_o time_n but_o a_o true_a pastor_n may_v not_o do_v so_o for_o if_o he_o shall_v he_o be_v worse_o than_o a_o hireling_n which_o leave_v not_o the_o sheep_n till_o he_o see_v the_o wolf_n come_v but_o many_o of_o these_o when_o they_o see_v a_o rich_a lectureship_n come_v towards_o they_o four_o he_o that_o be_v a_o parson_n or_o vicar_n be_v take_v general_o for_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o place_n and_o true_o howsoever_o their_o call_n be_v false_a and_o anttchristian_n as_o the_o nonconformist_n say_v yet_o in_o many_o respect_v they_o do_v better_o resemble_v a_o true_a minister_n than_o any_o lecturer_n whatsoever_o therefore_o not_o without_o just_a cause_n 74._o neces_fw-la of_o discipl_n pag._n 74._o do_v the_o reformist_n utter_o condemn_v this_o extraordinary_a office_n of_o preacher_n and_o affirm_v that_o they_o be_v neither_o pastor_n nor_o teacher_n which_o the_o scripture_n allow_v of_o answer_n this_o point_n concern_v lecturer_n i_o have_v purposely_o defer_v unto_o this_o place_n because_o it_o be_v distinct_a from_o the_o former_a in_o your_o apprehension_n