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A30904 Truth cleared of calumnies wherein a book intituled, A dialogue betwixt a Quaker and a stable Christian (printed at Aberdeen, and upon good ground judged to be writ by William Mitchell ...) is examined, and the disingenuity of the author, in his representing the Quakers is discovered : here is also their case truly stated, cleared, demonstrated, and the objections of their opposers answered according to truth, Scripture, and right reason / by Robert Barclay. Barclay, Robert, 1648-1690. 1670 (1670) Wing B738; ESTC R22049 63,242 72

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not so much as once bowed a knee to call upon God in their families What ground hast thou for this thy beliefe May they not bow their knees in their families though it be hid from the observation of malicious eyes who may so asperse them May they not pray in secret and be seene of the Father to pray according to Matth. 6. 6. Though they cannot be seene by the eyes of malicious Spyes And where a publick testimony in words is required it is also given nor doe wee know any friends of truth who have any whom they can joine with in Prayer in the family but doe meet together in the family and wait together breath together and pray together and that much oftener then thou insinuats sometimes without and sometimes with the outward signification of words so that wee returne this thy charge as false and malicious Thou sayest If this impulse be denyed for Years men all that while according to us must not pray But here thou speakest as one wholly unacquainted with the wayes and motions of the Spirit to suppose such a case which cannot be for the breathings and motions of the Spirit and especially unto Prayer are very frequent unto those who wait for them and are as necessary unto the Children of God as their dayly bread yea and more which the Father withholdeth not but giveth in due season But many times the Spirit of Prayer is felt to move and is answered when there is no liberty given to speake words in the hearing of others nor is thy other supposition lesse vaine and foolish that if aman were at the gates of death and in danger of present drowning yet without an impulse as thou callest it hee must not adventure to cry to God for mercy and help for suppose he did cry vvithout all help of the Spirit vvhat vvould it avail him vvould it have any acceptance vvith God Shew us vvherever a spiritlesse prayer vvas accepted of God or required Nay it is a vaine oblation vvhich is expresly forbidden and it is expresly commanded that praying be alvvayes in the spirit Eph. 6. 18. And as for the Saints vvhen they are dying or in any difficulty wee know the Spirit of prayer will never be wanting to breath through them at such occasions and to give words as there is a service for them But further thou alledgest that this Principle of ours leadeth to woefull security for what need you be d●●quieted for refraining prayer before God thou sayest or any other piece of service seing you have salve at hand to heal this sore and that is the want of an impulse Answ. If any fall into security and refraine prayer it is not that our Principle leadeth into it for our Principle leadeth out of all security into continuall watching unto prayer and wating upon the motions of the Spirit of God now if any feel not these motions they are nothing the lesse guilty becaus by their neglect they provoke the Lord to withhold them and render themselves out of frame to feel or entertaine them and thus who neglect the worship of God are justly under condemnation and if they have peace it is but a false peace which will faile them and as for our peace wee have found it to be great peace but wee have not come by it after such a way as thou doest falsely and rashly judge as by neglecting the worship of God and stopping the mouth of conscience but by being turned to that living VVord and Law of God in our hearts by loving it and cleaving to it yea by receiving the reproofes chastisements of God through it and submitting to the judgement of it when it hath beene as a hammer and as a sword and as a fire in us breaking in pieces and destroying all that false unsound peace wee had created to our selves in the day of our alienation from the light of God in us And unto peace wee are come through great tribulation of soule even such as thou art a stranger unto being ignorant both of the one and the other and so hast therein shewed thy folly in judging what thou knowest not And as for woefull security wee know not where it more abounds then among hypocriticall professors who with the VVhore in the Proverbs offer up their sacrifices of morning and evening prayers and thereby create a peace to themselves though they let their hearts goe a whoring after their lusts all the day did not the Pharisees pray much outwardly and were much in orher outward practises of devotion and so created a false peace and esteeme unto themselves And can you deny but that there are many such among you who make up a false peace to themselves by leaning upon their outward performances Now what If I should charge this upon your Principle wouldst thou think it fair dealing Thirdly Pag. 52. Thou sayest Doth not that opinion tend to Atheisme which rendreth mortification of sin even in this life useless c. Answ. Here thou dealest disingenuously Is mortification of sin uselesse where the end of it is attained And is not perfection the end of mortification Againe thou sayest The opinion of a sinles perfection wounds the very vitals of Religion Answ. Who could have expected that one that pretends to Religion would have beene so brazen-faced as to put such an expression in print What is the end of true Religion but to lead out of sin Do the vitals of Religion consist in sinning or in not sinning If it consist in sinning then they that Sin most are most religious But if it consist in not sinning and keeping the commandements of God without sin then to plead for such a thing as attainable hurteth not the vitals of Religion What! Cannot the Saints live better without sin then with it Yea surely they can live well without that which is a burden and as Death unto their life they whose life is in sin cannot live but in sin but the Saints life is not in sin but in righteousnes And thy consequences are vaine and foolish as 1. That men need not pray for pardon of sin 2. That they need not the Blood of Christ to cleanse them from sin 3. That they need not repentance For wee grant that all have sinned and so need those things by which they may attaine unto perfection and who witnesse perf●ction are come to witnesse the true use of these things and as the Blood of Christ cleanseth from all the sin so is preserveth cleane and such have received the forgivenes of their sins being turned from them unto righteousnes which is the fulfilling of repentance And vvhereas thou sayest Bring me to the particular person that is sinlesse and I shall apply to him that of the Apostle 1. Ioh. 1. 8. Thou shevvest openly thy confusion for by thy applying to him that of the Apostle vvouldest thou inferre a sinlesse man to be a sinning man That is a contradiction but though vvee should bring a man to
his outward coming for which you have no ground to say that hee bid them observe it till his outward coming so many hundred years after for the Scripture speakes nothing so but thus yee shew forth my death till I come now wee say hee did come according to his promise in a Spirituall and inward way of appearance in their hearts feeding them with the heavenly food and refreshment of his owne life and Spirit which is the substance and concerning this coming hee spoke unto them in many places particularly Iohn 14. 18. I will not leave you fatherlesse I will come unto you Yet a little while and the world seeth me not but yet shall see me and ver 23. If any man love me hee will keep my word and my Father will love him and wee will come unto him and make our abode with him which coming was inward according to vers 20 you in me and I in you And those that witnessed him thus come needed not outward bread and wine to remember them of him for his owne Spirit would bring all things to their remembrance they need not looke upon the figure and shadovv who have the Substance Paul said wee looke not upon things which are visible neither will Gods condescendence to their weaknesse who were but newly redeemed from out of a masse of heathenish superstitions prove a command or a rule to the whole Church or a warrant for any now to be found in the Administration thereof to hold up the outward figure doe cloake themselvs by shutting out and denying the Spirituall appearance of Christ as hee doth immediatly reveal himselfe in his children in whom he has made manifest the substance which ends the shadow For an Eighth Reason thou sayest that persons vvho cast off this ordinance are their soules great enemies for they stand in the vvay of their soules Spirituall good in that this is a Spiritual nourishing strengthening ordinance where Spirituall food is offered and delicate meat and drink for strengthening believers in their journey to heaven To vvhich I ansvver that those vvho neglect and despise having fellovvship and communion vvith God and laugh and scoffe at the usefull and necessary duety of vvaiting upon the Lord in silence vvherein his children feele their soules nourished with the Body and blood of Christ and with spirituall Manna which descends from heaven and is distilled into their soules not only once or twice a year which are the seasons wherein that which thou termst Spirituall food is ministred among you but daily and hourely by the fresh incoms of life such indeed are to their souls great enemies though they be sticking to the performance of some externall ceremonies wherein in former times God in condescendence to some becaus of the simplicitie of their hearts appeared and yet even then frequently as much and more at other tymes But now the Sun is set upon those who will needs be upholding the shadovv in opposition to the substance therefore their table is become polluted and may more truely be termed the table of devils then the communion of the Body of Christ where a mixt multitude of all sorts of wicked persons living out of Gods fear sit downe together being seemingly in words excommunicated from approaching by the Preacher and yet presently admitted to it by the same and to turne away from such an Ordinance so called is no sin nor hurt but all who become obedient to the light of Christ in them will find it their place to forsake it as being such an ordinance vvhich the Apostle said touch not tast not handle not vvhich is all to perish vvith the using In the fourth place Pag 41 thou vvilt prove that the ministerie of the vvord is an ordinance of Iesus Christ becaus first Christ appointed Ministers and Pastors to be in his Church But this cannot be asserted in opposition to the Quakers vvho grant the same And vvhy citest thou Eph. 5. 11. and. 1. for 12. 8. which if they prove the contin●ance of Pastors and teachers prove also the continuance of Prophets Evangelists and Apostles vvhich yee deny As to the second Reason that the Ministrie is not common to all but that there be some Pastors and teachers is also ovvned by us Yet that hinders not but that any at a time may speake vvhen the Saints are mett together as the Lord moves by his Spirit according to 1. Cor. 14. 31. for it is one thing to be particularly called to the Ministrie and another to be moved to speak at a particular time vvhich distinction that it vvas usuall among the Apostles in the Primitive times is easilie observed in the forenamed Chapter For a Third Reason thou sayest whom God calleth to the Ministrie he doth it either immediatly without the intervention of men or mediatly by men authorised for that purpose but for this thou bringst no proofe neither art thou able to make out that ever God called any under the nevv covenant so mediatly to their Ministrie by men as they vvere not to have an immediate call in themselves Though the approbation of good and experienced men in its place is not denyed by us but dearly ovvned Fourthly thou sayest who ever pretends to an immediate call they ought for the satisfaction of others to shew signes and tokens of their Apostleship to which I ansvver That those who come preaching the Gospell not in speech only but also in Power and in the holy Ghost and in the evidence and demonstration thereof As it is 1. Thess. 15. and. 1. Cor. 2. 4. give sufficient proofe that they are called of God though they come not vvith outvvard miracles And though Paul came to some vvith miracles vvhere hee preached the Gospell yet many believed vvho savv no outvvard miracle Also many of the Prophets vvrought no miracle nor Iohn the Baptist. And though some miraculous things came to passe about his Conception and birth those doe not of themselves prove him to be a Prophet for miraculous things miracles vvere vvrought upon many vvho vvere no prophets If Miracles be necessarie to evince a man sent of God hee must come vvith these Miracles before the people vvhich Iohn did not nor did Ionas come vvith any Miracle to convince the Ninivites but simply declared his message And Iohn Calvin asserteth that there is no need of Miracles and yet hee maintaineth that in his day God raised up Apostles or Evangelists saying that it vvas needfull such should be to bring back the poor people that had gone astray after Antichrist Lib. 4. Chap. 3. Inst. Neither did any Protestants pretend to doe any Miracles they pleading against the Papists that there was no absolute need of any in respect they preached not a new Gospell but that which was already confirmed with miracles by Christ and his Apostles And so thy plea against us here is the same that vvas urged by the Papists against the primitive protestants An evill and adulterous generation said Christ
day becaus hee rose on it Is not this a faire inlet to all the Popish holy Dayes If yee keep one day for his Resurrection why not one day for his Conception another for his Birth another for the Annunciation of the Ange another for his being crucified another for his Ascension then wee shall not want holy dayes in good store Fifthly thou sayest who oppose the Sabbath day sin against mercy and equity and Iustice. Answ. It is granted bnt who oppose your day which yee have made or imagined to be the Sabbath doe not sin against any of the fore-said if in other things they keep unto the rule of mercy and justice First they sin not against mercy if through all the dayes of the week they be found in that which is for the good of themselves and their neighbours Not laying too heavie burdens upon their owne soules by excessive care and labour in outward things nor yet forcing their bodily strength beyond the rule of mercy and love nor imposing any things upon either servants or cattell contrary to mercy For if the Law required mercy even in these things much more the Gospell so that wee grant times of rest are to be given unto Servants and Beasts and Mercy is to be shewed unto them more then under the Law And thus is the end of the Sabbath answered which was made for man yea this is indeed to keep the Sabbath To undoe every burden and to let the oppressed goe free both as to the inward and the outward And the Lords People have frequent times more then once a week wherein laying aside their outward affairs for a season they may and doe meet together to wait upon the Lord and be quickned and refreshed and instructed by him and worship him in his Spirit And may be useful unto one another in exhortation or admonition or any other way as the Lord shall furnish And such who find any distemper upon their minds through letting them goe forth too much upon outward things may find the Lord allowing them any other day or time no lesse then that to gett their hearts reduced into a right frame And it were sad if the Lord had only allowed but one day of seven unto this effect The Lord inviteth and alloweth the weary and distempered who love to be cured of their ●●●●empers to come unto him every day And as for those who abide not in a due care every day to have their hearts ordered arights but let their minds goe forth excessively in outward occasions all the week they provoke the Lord to shut them out from accesse to him upon the First day And our soules doe oft blesse the Lord in allowing us many times of refreshment and strengthning to the establishing and confirming us in his love and life and disburdening our minds of earthly things much more frequently then in one day of seven And as for sinning against Justice they cannot be charged with it who give up unto the Lord not onely one day of seven but all the seven even all the dayes of their life unto his service for equity and J●stide calleth upon us to spend all the seven in his service that our hearts may continually be exercised in his fear and love and what ever wee doe wee may doe it to him and in him And as for the first day of the week we meet together even on that day as wee doe on other dayes according to the practise of the primitive Christians to wait upon the Lord and worship him but to plead so obstinately as yee doe that the fourth Commandement bindeth to a particular observation of that day and yet to be found so slack in the observation of it as you generally are is such an inconstancie as the Quakers cannot owne And so whereas thou wouldst confine the Lord his giving rest and comfort to the souls of his people and the falling of the Manna to the first dayes calling them spirituall market dayes as if there were no other wee cannot owne it knowing that the Lord giveth rest and comfort every day and causeth the Manna plentifully to fall every day to those that walk in his fear and wait upon him and hee has no such circumscribed Market day as thou dreamest of but that yee I meane the Priests make a Market day of that day So that yee may call it your day as thou sayest Pag. 44. our day wee know wherein you sell and vend your Babylonish commodities and will be forceing and compelling all to come and buy of them or if nor to send you mony whither they receive ought or not or else yee will endevour by the help of the Magistrate to have them punished So that it is made manifest that it is only the inventions of men that wee disovvne and not any of the ordinances of Iesus Christ. Pag. 46. Thou grantest the vvord Originall sin is not found in Scripture and yet thou pleadst for it ●ecaus sayest thou the thing intended by it is contained and expressed in Scripture Ansvv. vvee deny that the thing by you intended is exprest in Scripture to vvit that all in●a●●s are sinners before God only for Adams sin and that there are reprobate Infants vvho are sent to hell only for Adams first sine this vvee deny nor doe the Scriptures cited by thee prove it Psal. 51. behold I was conceived in sin But first if this place should prove the Infant guilty of any sin it should be of the sin of its ovvne immediat parents in inquity did my mother bring me forth Novv you say the infant is not guilty of the sin of its ovvne immediate parents but only of Adams and Eva's first sin of vvhich this Scripture speakes nothing 2. it doeth not say I vvas conceived and brought forth a sinner as you vvould have it vvhy make you infants guilty of Adams sin and not of the sins of then immediate parents Novv it is granted that there is a seed of sin derived unto Adams posterity but wee say none become guilty of sin before God until they close with this evil seed and in them who close with it it becoms an origine or ●o●intaine of evil thoughts des●res words and actions which are their sins vvho close vvith it But that the guilt of Adams first sin lyes at the door of Infants who never actually sinned vvee deny For a Second Proofe thou citest Rom. 5. 12. Alleadging it should be rendred that in Adam all sinned But it is no such matter For the words however they be truly translated can never be so rendred in Adam all sinned The strictest translation of the words is thus upon which all have sinned or in which all have sinned Now if the words be translated Vpon which all have sinned They hold forth hovv that Adam by his sin gave an entrance to Sin in the World and Death by Sin and so upon this occasion all others have sinned to wit actually in their ovvne Persons so