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A01009 Purgatories triumph ouer hell maugre the barking of Cerberus in Syr Edvvard Hobyes Counter-snarle. Described in a letter to the sayd knight, from I.R. authour of the answere vnto the Protestants pulpit babels. Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; Jenison, Robert, 1584?-1652, attributed name. 1613 (1613) STC 11114; ESTC S115113 123,366 230

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not receaue the Sacrament of Baptisme be not pardoned but punished for euer If any sinne after Baptisme his pleasure is that no pardon or remissiō be giuen except he yield humbly and penitently to confesse his sinnes if any refuse to obey so reasonable a law what wrong is done to Christ if such pride be sent to Hell The wicked are condemned not against his will but by his order not out of defect of his meritts but out of their stubburnnes malice It is also Christs holy will that in sinnes committed after Baptisme the whole guilt of payne be not euer forgiuen but sometimes he reserueth a conuenient taske of temporall paine according to the measure his diuine wisdom thinketh best For which we must endeauour to satisfy by fasting praying or other voluntary afflictions or else with a patient acceptance of such crosses as shall be sent by the hand of God 34. This Doctrine strikes you to the heart You bring two principles you were taught in logick against it First the cause say you taken away the effect ceaseth punishment is the effect of synne ergo when synne is remitted punishments must needs cease This your logicke if we yield vnto it will beate out our eyes and force vs to deny euen what we dayly see and feele to wit that punishments and penalties may remaine though the sinne be forgiuen What are death hunger thirst and other miseries of this life but effects of originall sinne Is not that sinne forgiuen vnto Christians in baptisme yet those that are baptized and borne anew in Christ endure the former penalties and punishments of that sinne though the same be pardoned God pardoned Dauids Synne (m) 2. Reg. 12. Dominus transtulit à te peccatum tuum God hath taken thy sinne from thee but did all temporall punishment cease togeather with the sinne No. The sinne was remitted with a But thou shalt indure these an● these dreadfull afflictions because thou hast made the name of God to be blasphemed 35. I will not stand to confirme this truth out of Scriptures nor out of Fathers only because you stand vpon Athanasius whome you call your Arbitrator (n) Lett. pag. 43. and say that he will not affoarde vs one sillable to saue our liues your ignorance shall receiue doome by his sentence euen in that very Treatise Thus he writeth There is great difference (*) De verbis Christi Si quis dixerit verbum c. saith he betwixt pennance and baptisme he that repenteth ceaseth to sinne but still retayneth the skarrs of his wound but he that is baptized putteth of the old man is then renevved from heauen and as it vvere borne againe by the spirit of grace Doe you see Syr how many syllables this Fathers lendeth vs to know the difference betweene baptisme and pennance for sins cōmitted after baptisme what are those skarrs which still remaine after pennance but not after baptisme You cānot say they are bad inclinations customes for those remaine after baptisme nor the miseries penalties of this mortall life for from the necessitie enduring such crosses baptisme doth not exempt I see not what else can be imagined to remaine after pennance and not after baptisme besides the guilt of temporall paine which we must willingly vndergoe to satisfy for the sins after baptisme which skarrs woūds if we heale not in this life by plaisters of pēnance they must be seared in the next by Purgatory fire 36. Now your logicall Axiome against this verity that the effect ceaseth the cause being taken away who doth not se that it faileth in a thousand examples The Sonne is an effect of the Father can not he liue though his Father be dead the fyre causeth heat yet we see that heat doth often remaine long time after the fyre is put out The truth is that Principle is only true quando Effectus pendet à Causa in esse conseruari when not only the first being of the effect dependeth on the cause but also the conseruation therof as the light of the Sun which the Sun doth not only bring forth but also cōserue vanisheth away togeather with the same Punishment is the effect of sinne nothing but sinne could produce that guilt in our soule yet when it is once in the soule the cōseruation dependeth on the will of God It cannot cease but when and in what manner he will haue it cease either remitting the whole guilt as in Baptism or els reseruing some part of the penalty as he doth often in the sinnes we commit after Baptisme Not that the merits of Christ be not sufficient alone without our pēnance and satisfaction to do away both the eternall and temporall punishment but for the other reasons his diuine wisdome knoweth 37. This wisdome you would proue to be folly by another Axiome of your Logick Frustra fit per plura say you (o) Lett. pag. 38. quod fieri potest per pauciora It is vaine to vse many meanes when fewer will suffice the Iordan of Christs bloud alone sufficeth to wash away the leprosie of Naaman what need he be bathed in Abanak of his owne pēnance or in the Pharphar of Purgatory flames Syr I must accuse eyther your memory or your Maister either he did not teach you that Principle right or els since you haue let fall some wordes therof out of your mind to wit aequè bene when the thing may be done by fewer meanes altogeather as well to multiply meanes is vaine and idle which two wordes wanting your Principle is false Christ might haue redeemed the world with one drop of his bloud was the rest therfore shed in vaine No because it did serue to make his excessiue loue more manifest vnto vs. So likewise though by the bloud of Christ sinnes may be forgiuen fully and perfectly in Pēnance after Baptisme as well as in Baptisme yet the wisdome of God hath thought it more for his owne honour and for our profit to enable vs to do some part of this pēnance our selues by the help of his grace 38. First that we might more deeply conceaue of the malice of sinne and Gods hatred against it Secondly that by feeling some temporall smart our gratitude towardes Christ might encrease who deliuered vs freely from the eternall Thirdly that we may more carefully for the time to come auoid sinne flying from the shadow therof as from an Adder (p) Quasi à facie colubri fuge peccatū Eccl. 21. Fourthly that by voluntary Pēnance we might more estrange our selues (q) Felix necessitas quae ad meliora compellit from the dangerous pleasures of this world and alluring sent of the sinfull flesh Fiftly that this happy necessity of doing of Pennance might force vs to retyrednes where God speaketh to the hart (r) Ducā in solitudinem loquar ad cor Osee 2. Sixtly that by this occasion we might try what without triall can hardly be belieued the comfortes that
allowing as he did the doctrine which you call the diuells except this your Censure be irreligious For what feare of God could be in his hart if for feare of Men he did not only forbeare to reprehend but also teach and striue to proue what he knew was against truth against Christs bloud against Gods glory peruerting and dissipating the Christian faith as you say (a) Lett. p. 74. 75. the doctrine of Purgatory doth With this grosse feare do you charge him and yet you thinke much I should endight you of the least wrong done vnto him yea you would haue me thinke you owe to him more then halfe of your self whose head hart and tongue are no more like his then your go was like the sed the Printer turned it vnto your conceit doth not sauour of his wit nor your pen of his learning nor your Stile of his modesty nor your hart of his Feare of God and Reuerence to the Church This sentence of yours may suffice alone to giue any iudicious Reader to vnderstand your opposition with S. August how much reason I had to tearme your Letter (b) Lett. p. ●1 vnlearned you laying togeather on an heape the points of Catholike doctrine you mislike whereof you think Purgatory the ground-worke in this sort 1. Merites 2. Satisfactions 3. Perfections 4. Supererogatiōs 5. Masses 6. Vigills 7. Superaltaries 8. Nooneday Lampes 9. Dirges 10. Christening Buriall Lampes 11. Oblations 12. Roodes 13. Images 14. Crosse-creepings 15. Beads 16. Crucifixes 17. Pictures 18. Graines 19. Incense 20. Hollowed Cemiteries 21. Holywater 22. Oyle 23. Salt 24. Spittle 25. Couents 26. Professions 27. Pilgrimages 28. Reliques 29. Stewish Pardons 30. Indulgences this Riffraff iuggling trash Babies sports haue not only mutuall reference but fundamentall dependance on Purgatory 41. Is not this a learned enumeration and censure of the articles of our faith Can you imagin that any man of Iudgement will thinke your penne sober that went thus tumbling from one point to another without any discretion or order Many of which doctrines by you related I dare say haue no more connexion with Purgatorie then hath one part of your discourse with another which is commonly none at all What hath Salt Oyle Spittle to doe with Purgatorie Or Beads Crucifixes Pictures Reliques Images Cross-creepings that they may be sayd to be built vpon it Though Purgatorie should be ouerthrowne I see not why the former things as also Merits Perfections Supererogations Crosses Vigills Superaltaries Noonday-lampes Christning and Buriall-tapers might not remaine and be vsed as now they are Much lesse can I perceiue any sobrietie in terming the points of doctrine which you set downe Riffraffe Iuggling Trash and Babies sportes most of which I thinke you dare not for shame I am sure you cannot with truth deny to haue bene most expresly taught by S. Augustine to omit the pregnant testimonies of other ancient Fathers 42. For to speake only of Meritts which you set in the first place Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholike doctrine cōcerning this point doth not he say (c) Epist 105. ad Sixtum that as the wages due to sinne is death soe the wages due to righteousnes is life eternall And againe (d) De morib Eccles c. 25. the reward cannot goe before Meritts nor be giuen before a man be worthie therof Yea (e) L. 3. in Iulian. c. 3. that God should be vniust if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome Doth or can any Catholike speake more plainly then he doth of merits And the same might be proued in most of the rest of the doctrines and practises you score vp for Iuggling trickes and Babies sports which had you any mediocrity of knowledg in S. Augustine you could not be ignorāt that they are his most expresse assertions You desire me to naturalize (f) Counters p. 59. your lines which I dare say if you are not bound vnto some Minister for them may be for S. Augustine or any interest his learned sayings or sweet meditations may chalenge in them as free as the colt of the wild Asse (g) Iob. 11. quasi pullū Onagri se liberū natum putat which freedome you take to vse wild phrases saying it is for seruile pennes such as mine is to write in mood and figure for you it is inough you please your selfe (h) p. 39. 43. But to returne to our purpose if S. Augustine be a glorious Saint as you say he is in what a wretched and damnable estate are you that impugne him in most points of the Faith by which he attained vnto glorie If he be an euer-admired Doctour of Gods Church doth not your blasphemie deserue eternall hatred who make that doctrine the Diuells which he reacheth to be Gods Is not Purgatories Victorie ouer your lying Letter ingrauen in a Marble-piller seing you cannot giue that title to that Doctour in whose learned workes this point of Catholike doctrine in most cleere and indeleble characters is indelebly written THE THIRD CHAPTER THE Vanity of your Logicall Cauills AT the Catholike deduction of Purgatorie from the wordes of Christ Matth. 12. vers 32. THE Second Enemie which Purgatory hath in your Letter and which makes you a mortall enemy to this Doctrine is (a) Lett. to M. T. H. p. 26. sequent a proude conceipt of your learning and of the Logick you got haunting Paruies in Oxford by the principles whereof you vndertake to tripp vp the heeles of Purgatorie to vse your owne phrase standing vpon the ground of sacred Scripture Christ in the twelfth of S. Matth. vers 32. saith of Synne against the holy Ghost that it shal be forgiuen (b) Math. 12. vers 32. neither in this world nor in the world to come Whence Catholikes infer that some kind of synnes may be pardoned in the next worlde For this text conteyneth both a distinction of two sortes of synnes some Remissible others Irremissible and of two places where Remission may be had namely this present world and the world to come Signifying that some sinnes may be remitted in the one place some in the other but Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in neither Whence followeth seeing the next world is the time of Iustice that God doth not there remitt sinnes without exacting and inflicting the due punishment vnto the Authours which is the Purgatorie the Catholike Church doth and hath euer taught 2. This exposition noe sooner soundeth in your eare but your tongue waggeth in this sort c I protest I thought as much you haue turned vp Nodie dic sodes deale plainely with your freindes came this Carde out of the Stocke Is there any such clause in the text Or any other expresse Scripture to iustifie this assertion A young Gamster may see it is but a bad sequele Here is old packing but I will discouer you Thus you did discourse more like a Carpet Knight then a sober deuine shewing more skill
find as Christ became to them sweeter so they became poorer The delight they took in him made them esteeme worldly wealth as dunge placing their greatest treasure in wanting all things for him 29. Many borne to greater fortunes of the world then you are voluntarily made themselues so poore that their only demeanes was a wildernes their Pallace a hole vnder ground their meat fasting their attyre contemptible their musick Prayer their bed the bare ground on which they did bath their wasted bones which life they did preferre before being Kings in this world such was the sweetnes they foūd in Christ crucified such ioy they had to feele in themselues some litle portion of that paine they beheld in him You shall hardly perswade me Syr Edward that these were dullards in the Schoole of Christ Piety that you do more see into Christ crucified and more sweetly tast his Passion then they did they did not doubt but the garment of glory out of the broad cloath of Christs merits was to be greater or lesser according as they had more or lesse conformity with the crucified Sonne of God neither did they belieue that God giues it to vs ready made to our owne hands as you say but that those momentary light sufferings work in vs eternal weight of Glory 30. These men vnderstood aright the place of the Apocalips which you so much stand vpon (b) Lett. pag. 87. Blessed are those that dye in our Lord from henceforth saith the spirit they shall rest from their labours (c) Apoc. 14.15 In which sentence I wonder you liuing as you doe can thinke to haue any part that promise belongeth to them that neuer rest in the course of pennance that makes the same end togeather of their laboures and their liues whom death takes downe from the Crosse of volūtary afflictiōs Martyrs in the first place are partakers of this promise next after them Penitents who endure as S. Bernard sayth a martyrdome in perpetuall victory of themselues not so cruell in shew as the other but no lesse troublesome for length of tyme (d) Bern Serm. 27. in Cantica In which penall martyrdome if you continue vnto death in the true Catholike Church I dare warrant you both from Hell and Purgatorie and grant you an immediat passage vnto Heauen For we teach not as you falsely charg vs that no hold can be taken on Heauen without a Purgatorie in the other life and that euen S. Paul must be there purged these are not our doctrines but your slaunders Those that dye perfectly in Christ shall passe without Purgatory vnto Blisse others who hauing Christ in the Foundation (d) 1. Cor. 3. that is his faith and charitie in their harts (e) Aug. l. 21. de Ciuit. c. 26. Amores terrenos non damnabiles doe notwithstanding set their affections vpon earthly things that alay the feruour of his loue dye not perfectly in Christ nor must expect to passe without Purgatory from idlenes vnto rest from worldly pleasure vnto heauenly ioy 31. O Syr Edward how do I feare that you play not the Taylour aright but cut out of Scripture fauourable sententes for your selfe as this is Blessed are those that dye in our Lord that doe concerne others whose liues doe not so much suite with Diues dayly banketing as yours seemeth to do Take heed you find not a garmēt of another suite set on your backe when your soule shall depart more naked of good deedes out of the body then your body of garments vnto the graue God graunt you be not clothed with these sentences woe to you that laugh for you shall weepe (f) Luc. 6. wo to you that were rich that had in this world your comfort (g) Ibid. wo vnto you that had rich bedds and lay wantonly in soft downe (h) Amos ● you deceaue your selfe if you thinke as you say (i) Let. p. 81 that as in your Creation you did not help your selfe so likewise in your Redemption As we lay no claime to haue bin any helper in the creation so can not we part staks in our Redemptiō you must not cooperate with God to the sauing of your selfe that the whole worke must be his He that made thee without thy self will not saue thee without thy selfe saith Blessed S. Augustine Looke not to weare Christs sommer-liuery in life euerlasting who refuse to put one his winter-suite the freeze-coate of pēnance mortificatiō in your mortall state This cloth of Christs infinit merits suite not with your short charity no more then a Giants attyre can become a Pygmey you must by your works and merits Gods grace concurring 〈◊〉 out a suite for your selfe the Nuptiall garme●● (k) Matth. 22. wherein you must appeare at the day of Iudgment else you shall be cast out naked into vtter darknes Christs bloud purgeth all sinnes in such as vse the due meanes to haue the merit thereof applyed vnto them not in such as neglect the Sacraments he did appoint or will not togeather with preuenting and helping grace seeke by penall works to deriue his bloud vpon their soules for their perfect cleansing 32. This pennance you think needlesse this ioyning our satisfactions with Christs you esteeme iniurious to his Passiō and dispute in this manner (l) Lett. p. 91. The soules in Purgatorie say you are either punished for those sinnes which Christs bloud hath wholy purged or for those which he hath not wholy purged If for those which Christ hath wholy purged then there must needs be iniustice in God to imprison them whose debts are fully discharged if for sinnes that he hath not wholy purged then it followeth either that he is not the Lambe that taketh away the sinnes of the world or that mans satisfaction must goe hand in hand with Christs meritts Thus you do butt against Purgatories walls with your horned arguments which if it haue any force against Purgatorie will also break open the gates of Hell that the dāned may come out For for what sins are those wretches punisht For what debts are they keept in prisō Doubtles for those sinnes and debts for which Christ did offer his pretious bloud What Was not that a sufficiēt Redēptiō for the sins of the world Yes without questiō Is God thē vniust to imprisō thē in that dark dūgeō for euer for those sins Christ payd a full and rigorous ranson Nor if God be vniust to whom doth he iniury herein Not to the sinner who doth suffer no more then he doth deserue neither can he chaleng to himselfe Pardon by any title of iustice Neither is there any wrong done vnto Christ Though his pretious death doth deserue the ranson of millions of worlds yet as the Phylosopher saith volenti non fit iniuria Iniustice can not be done to one in a thing which he is willing vnto 33. Now it is the will of Christ that such as will not belieue in him or