then to reade in the holye Scriptures the which they dare not touch Or if they desire some time to drincke of it that is as the dogge doth at the floud Nilus They doe but sucke in the water hastely as though they were afrayde to touch it and that there were in it Crocodiles They wyll touch it as a Cat doth hotte coales I doe not condemne the reading of good Authours and of Poets Oratours and Philosophers the which may serue vs to the glorie of God if first of all we be well instructed in the Christian religion But I can not allowe but greatly condempne those whiche altogeather gyue themselues vnto suche Authours or to others a greate deale worse and make none accompte of the holy Bible and diuine bookes to which all other Sciences and disciplines ought to serue and to whiche they ought to be preferred Shall we not iudge him a foole out of his wyt which will alwayes staye in his Grammer and in the principles and rules of the same and despyse the studye of other liberall Artes and of Philosophie and wyll in no wyse meddle wyth them nor exercise himselfe in speakinge nor yet in writinge fearinge to forget and lose those rules and groundes of Grammer Who wyll not iudge such a man to bee madde sith that the Grammer yea the Rethoricke whatsoeuer prayse that Cicero giueth vnto it And the Logicke also are not but as handmaydens and seruauntes vnto other disciplines the whiche men doe learne for to serue vnto them Wée doe nowe mocke the barberous schole masters which wee haue had which coulde reade vnto vs but doctrinall of Alexander and doe holde vs therein all our lyfe time wythout letting vs at any time taste any good Authour insomuch that one shall neuer haue done but the thing is alwayes to beginne agayne Those some vnto me not to differ much from them For notwithstanding that they doe reade better Authours and that they doe exercise themselues to speake and wryte better Yet Neuerthelesse I esteeme not all that which they doe no more then the Grammer of Alexander or as Grecismus and Roiolis and the Logicke of Tartaret and of other Sophisters except they make all their skill and knowledge to the honour and glorye of GOD and if they mynde it vnto anye other marke or ende For otherwise whereto shall all their science and eloquence serue but to the Panims and people without God the which is more hurtfull and daungerous then profitable to the common wealth in hym which hath not the feare of God and which is not well instructed in the Christian doctrine And when they haue studyed all their lyfe time to beautifie and 〈◊〉 foorth theyr language I thincke yet neuerthelesse that a man shall not finde many amonge them which can come vnto such perfection by the which they may approch so néere vnto Gicero as that seditious Catiline who was very eloquent But when they doe surmount Demosthenes may not wee rightly â—ay that of them which Eschines hath sayd of him comparing him vnto a flute which hath but the beak of bil the which is vnprofitable after that the necke is cut off What is there also in these héere but the tongue The which oftentimes hurteth many and profiteth fewe Is not a poore labourer which knoweth his God and Iesus Christ his Sauiour and which confesseth him in his rude language and which honoureth him through his good life and conuersation to be preferred before all these greate Poets Orators and Philosophers who are altogether ignoraunt and which doe serue but the flesh the world and Sathan Prince of the same Are not they great Asses and beastes in comparison of him and yet worse For the Oxe knoweth his Lord and an Asse his Masters stall as sayth the Prophet the which those here which will bée counted for true Israelits Gods people and Christians wil not acknowledge nor serue hym dooing vnto him so much honour as the Oxe the Asse doe vnto their Masters How dare they esteeme themselues wyse beeing ignoraunt of the knowledge of God the which onely is the true knowledge for to bringe vs vnto euerlasting blessednesse in comparison of which all other which are called sciences are but mennes opinions errours and lyinges excepte they haue this for a guyde It is very harde to finde for such men mediciues proper to heale them and meate for to make them haue an appetite sith that they are so farre out of tast with the bread of lyfe and the heauenly Manna to the which they preferre the garlicke onyons the flesh and fishes of Aegypt For he that shall giue them such meate as they desire shall but encrease their griefe the greater And if the meate bée not as they woulde haue it they will not tast of it Wherefore I leaue such to bée handeled of those which haue more cunninge then I and which can better helpe their disease There are others which differ but a little from these héere and which care not so muche of the language but they haue yet a greate vice common with the first that is that they delite not in reading any good matter graue and whiche toucheth Gods woorde and the health of their soules but vnto worldly thinges delectable to the flesh pernicious and hurtfull to the spirite and conscience And therefore although that many good men haue written in French very learnedly and in a good language touching the matters of our Religion yet neuerthelesse that sorte of people cannot applye themselues to reade those good bookes and can take no taste of them bicause that their mouthe is not fitte for such meate and that they are to precious for them For the â—doriseraunt and sweete flowers smell not so swéete in the hogges noses as the myre and durte For that cause suche carnall men take more pleasure and delite in the bookes that speake their language But the thinge is more detestable to women whiche delite to reade â—ookes of bawdry and whoredome For they vnderstande them the better bycause they are of the earth and doe speake of earthlye matters and cannot comprehende the celestiall language bycause it is not naturall vnto them Nowe such bookes as they desire are not wanting vnto them For there are ynough of fooles bables throughout the worlâ—e which doe serue but for seoffing and testing and which haue no other care and applye their studie but to please men and to nourishe theyr vaine curiositie louinge better to speake pleasaunt thinges then salutary and to delyte the fleshe and the eares more then to edifie the conscience Yet thys was one of the causes whiche moued me to write and procéede after an other manner then those whiche haue written before mée For I consider that many doe leaue off to reade them not onely bicause it is forbidden in many Countreys kingedomes and Segmories to reade good bookes whiche speake of GOD
by those words that the body of man and all that which is in the fleshe and the vices therein is giuen for meate to the Serpent whom they do call Azazell lord of the fleshe and the bloud and Prince of that world saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of the deserts Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime and dust of the earth and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent they conclude thereby that our bodies are subiect vnto him and in his power vntill such time as they be sanctified and that the earthly fleshe bee transformed and changed into a spirituall nature And therfore say they that that body hath neede both in his buriall whilest that he is in this earth to be purified sanctified through prayers sacrifices encensements exorcismes coniurations and other ceremonies fit for the same Theophilus Durand in that booke wherein he yeldeth the reason of all the popish ceremonies speaking of the office and burying of the dead allegeth the same reasons and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Cabalistes Wherein we may well know that the supersticious christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes which could not then by such things be defaced put out But to the ende that the wicked spirites and theyr presence should be dryuen away And therefore saith hée that in some places they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue with the fire and encense and that the holy water is put there to the eâ—de that the diuell shoulde not come neere for he doth feare it very much Hillarius It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier vnto whom the diuel appeared so terrible that he could not speake for feare And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche Fryer Giles could not arise but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him Theophilus Behold a good proofe the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe and the faith in him or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith which is the buckler and shield wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell I do muche meruaile where God hathe commauÌ„ded to driue away the diuell by water and when the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell Hillarius At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water Theophilus When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand he addeth moreouer that in what soeuer place the christians shal be buried out of the churchyarde they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head For the diuell doth feare very much that signe dareth not to come nigh the place where he seeth the crosse Hillarius That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard is not coniured Wherby it hath not so much vertue And therfore in recoÌ„pence they do ad y crosse for to driue away the diuell Theophilus For y same cause do they also coniure y earth of y churchyard For as they do witnes affirme the diuels haue vsed to get theÌ„ vnto the dead bodies and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them and inforce themselues to do vnto them at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue Furthermore they say that at the day of iudgement our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar Euen so will he say vnto those whose is this Image what money is this Then those which shal be marked with the crosse shal be knowen to bee good christian money And Iesus Christ will say that whiche is Cesars that is to say vnto the diuell giue it him that which is vnto God giue it to God. Hillarius I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye away those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse especially the priestes and moonks whiche are all hyd and couered with them Are not these goodly reasons and most worthy of such diuines Eusebius Yea those are Godly reasons what will you say to the contrary do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes wherefore they ought to do that And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good iust reason Theophilus Thou hast heard them and thou hast also the Iewes Cabalists and Panyms for to be the firste authors of them But those dreames are yet more tollerable and worhty of pardon then those here bycause that hauing the braine full of false opinions and inchauntments they feare least the enchauntors Magitians and especially the coniurers and the diuell with them should abuse their bodies thorow their enchauÌ„tments necromances witchcraft But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ as wel for the body as for the soule vsing such ceremonies which I may truly call charmes inchauntements magicall supersticions and purifications and not euangelical For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth how will God permit and suffer that that olde serpent shall defile those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple habit ation of his holy ghost And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ and sanctified thorow his spirite haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed after the manner as the enchaunters charmers do their exorcisms coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules whiche Iesus Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him that is to say the troubles and aduersities of this world in all patience and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death passion reioysing our selues only in his crosse as the holy apostle saith
ende Iesus Christe prâ—tended by those wordes that hee hath aunswered vnto 〈◊〉 Theophilus Before we do passe any farther note dâ—â—ygently that notwithstanding that Iesus Christ hath sayed He that beléeueth and shal be baptised shal be saued Yet neuerthelesse in the contrary proposition which followeth he hath not reâ—terated the baptisme He hath not saide he that beléeueth not and shall not be baptised shal be condempned But hath made only mention of the faith and of the beléeuing shewing that without the same none can be deliuered from condemnation the which he hath not affirmed of the baptisme And yet neuerthelesse he speaketh there of the outward and visible baptisme And not only of the same of the young children but of the â—lde and greate ones vnto whom the apostles were sent for to preach the Gospell Now iudge if Iesus Christ hath not required the visible baptisme of the greate ones as necessary vnto saluation how wil he require it of the young children I will geue none occasyon vnto any man by my wordes to despyse the Sacraments For thou knowest already what sentence I haue giuen against those that do despise it But I doâ—â—eane anâ— saâ— that if any good man were eyther among the Turkes or among the Idolaters and Infidels which had knowledge of the gospel true faith in Iesus Christ and that it was not possible for him to bee baptised I cannot beléeue that he should be dampned for lacke of a little water sith that he hath the principall to witte the faith or otherwise the water shoulde haue more vertue efficacie then the bloud of Iesus Christ or at the least as much And the Priest which administreth the baptisme should haue as much power as Iesus Christ himselfe For it should follow that euen as the water or the Minister in like manner can do nothing without the spirit bloud of Iesus Christ that Iesus Christes spirit also nor his bloud could doe any thing without the water and the Minister And so Iesus Christ and his espirit should be as much subiect vnto the Minister and the water as the water and the Minister vnto them And so consequently his grace mercy shall be bound vnto the corruptible elements subiect vnto men After that manner Iesus Christ should bée no more a true God nor a true Sauiour And so it is easy to iudge that such doctrine procéedeth not of God sith that it â—â—pugneth euidently the grace of God the iustification of faith and the annalogy of the saâ—ie and boâ—â—â— ouerturne altogether the mistery of y redeption made by Iesus Christ The which thing not onely the auncient Doctors but also the Scholasticals and Questionaries haue wel perceiued namely the master of the sentences which proueth by good reasons and by the witnesse of the auncient Doctors of the Church that some are iustified saued without baptisme amongest whom saint Augustine comprehendeth all those which are dead and haue suffered martyrdome for the conâ—â—â—â—ion of Iesus Christ In like manner the authoritie of Cyprian is sette foorth by the master of the sentences by the which he witnesseth that the saith the repenâ—aunce and conuersâ—on of the heart doth recompence and suffice for baptisme vnto those that haue not the time nor place for to receiue it they doe call it baptisme of 〈◊〉 And for confirmation of this he ioyneth to the example of the théeâ—e which was crucified next to Iesus the which saith he was not crucified for the name of Christ but for his demerits and wicked déedes And he did not suffer bicause â—e beléued but in suffering he beléeued It is then declared in that theeâ—e how much sayth aâ—ayleth without the Sacrament of visible baptisme The which the Apostle sayth The beléefe of the heart iustifieth and to knowledge with the mouth maketh a man safe But then hée doth accomplish it inuisibly when the necessitye shutteth vp and hideth the Sacrament of baptisme not the dispisinge of the religion Hee may haue some kinde of baptisme where he shall not haue couersion of y heart And the conuersion of the heart maye bée in some without hauing receiued baptisme But it cannot be ther where baptisme is dispised and we must not in no wise call that conuersion of the heart vnto God when the sacrament of God is dispised Be holde the witnesse the whiche vppon that matter Gratian alledgeth in his booke of decretalls and the master of the sentences taken of Cyprian addeth the same of Saint Ambrose touching the Emperour Valentiâ—ian who dyed without baptisme of whoÌ„ he saith I haue lost him whom I ought to haue regenerated But yet neuerthelesse hée hath not lost the grace the which hée required Now if we ought to haue such confidence and trust of the health and saluation of the great and olde men which coulde not haue the baptisme by a more stronger reason we ought to haue it of the young Infants For if they be of Gods elect it is in his power to baptise them in their mothers belly by his holy spirit to sanctifie them as it is written of Iacob of â—eremy Sainct Iohn Baptist of Saint Paul Eusebius How can we then absolue the proposition of Iesus Christ For it is generall and exclusiue without excepting any person Theophilus As much may I say of that that he hath said of his flesh and of his bloud speaking in this manner verely verely I say vnto you except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloud ye shall not haue life in you Doth not that proposition counteruailâ— as much as if he had sayd whosoeuer shall not eate my flesh and drinke my bloud shall not haue eternall life none can denie the same It followeth then that all the younge children are dampned and all those which doe not coÌ„municate in the Sacrament of the supper if the Popish doctrine bée true that Iesus Christ is really in the hoast and that wée must there eate hys flesh and drinke his bloude after the manner as they haue taught vs It shall not be then no lesse necessary to keepe the consecrated hoastes and of the Gods in the boxe for to communicate to the little children to giue vnto them the Sacrament of the Euchariste as the same of baptisme For the wordes of Iesus Christ doe vrge no lesse in the one of the places then in the other And if thou doo thinke that there is great difference I wil shew vnto thée easely that many among the auncients haue perceiued iudged it to be so as I say or otherwise in the time of Charlemaine they woulde not haue kept the Eucharistia for to giue it vnto the little children when they were sicke if they had not esteemed the thing very necessary Yet neuerthelesse it is written in the booke of Ansegisus Abbot of Liege that the same was done in that time there and reciteth the
thoughte that manner of doing to be meruaylous straunge and would not beléeue it that ther wer people vpon the earth so inhumaine who had not great horrour and feare to eate the flesh of men But when I consider way the doings of our Priestes I finde the Scythians to be very humaine in comparison of them For they are not conteÌ„t to eate the dead onely but they eate both the quicke the dead not béeing content with y do also eate with them their wyues children parents friends with all their cheuances substance yet they cannot be suffised satisfied They make of their bodyes y sepulchers of the poore people whom they do englut and deuoure for to bury them more preciously in their bowels But you must not be abashed if they make of their bodies the sepulchers of the poore people as the Scythians did of their parents friends sith that they say that they are made dayly the sepulcher of Iesus Christ bicause they doe eate him dayly and bury him in their bodyes and entrayles The poore people haue then no iust occasion to complayne of their crueltie For they doe vnto them no worse then vnto their God if their doctrine be true but doe bury them as preciously honestly And hée that will not beléeue me let him read their booke which is intituled Stella Clericorum and he shall sée whether I lye or no but he shall there finde rather worse For it is there written sith that the Prieste is the sepulcher of Iesus Christe that if he doe presume to take the body of Iesus with his polluted mouth he doth worse then if he threwe it in the durte or mire But which is more he casteth it into a priuie Iudge therefore Eusebius whether that good God whom they haue forged be honestly lodged and whether he haue not a tombe and sepulcher very precious and according to his dignitie Eusebius If there are some wicked Priests who did vnreuerently handle Iesus Christ and who did dishonour their office must ye therfore despise the estate which is so worthy and excellent and blaspheame Iesus Christ in such sorte Hillarius When did you euer heare vs blaspheme Iesus Christ speake vnreuerently of god do you thinke ther is no differeÌ„ce betwene Iesus christ the true sauiour of y world As for me I finde as much difference as is betwen y true God of Israel the gods of the Babilonians and other Idolaters Wherfore if you will accuse me of blasphemy when I will not receiue those newe gods and that I speake in such sort you shall be also compelled to accuse the Prophets of the same crime when they doe so often mocke at the strange gods But wherefore are you not rather offended with them then with mée who haue not inueÌ„ted any thing but do speake only after them To what purpose doe they call the Priestes the Sepulcher of Iesus Christ Is not Iesus Christ risen agayne and ascended into heauen doth not the Apostle say Christ once raised from death dyeth no more For as much then as Iesus Christ liueth eternally at y right hand of god his father what needeth he of a sepâ—lohre especially of such as these are When he dyed for our sinnes he had his sepulchre in Hierusalem in which Ioseph of Aramathia and Nicodemus dyd bury him in They dyd not as the Scithians eate him fleshe and bones and bury him in their bellyes and entrayles But in a goodly new sepulchre hewen in stone The priestes then camibâ— saye that they are that sepulchre in which Iesus Christ was put and out of which he rose againe Wherefore if they be the sepulchres of Iesus Christ it must be that he is dead sithence and that he was buryed in theyr bellyes For I cannot vnderstande how he could be buryed if they haue not eaten him as the Scithians dyd eate theyr parents and friends And if you doe thinke that I tell you a thing that is strange consider and marke well the woords that the Apostle hath wrytten to the Hebrewes He witnesseth that Iesus Christ was once offered and he shal be no more Afterward telleth the cause For if he must be often offered he must dye often sith that there is no sacrifice without effusion of bloud Yet the priestes say that they doe offer and sacrifice really euery day Iesus Christ it followeth necessarily y either they do put him to death that he dyeth agayne or els y the holy Apostle is an euil Logicioner that he concludeth euilly knoweth not the rules and lawes of his Silogismes and consequences If it be so the Priestes may well be called the Sepulchers of Iesus Christ but not of the true Iesus Christ whom Saint Stephen did sée at the righte hande of God who as the Apostle witnesseth dyeth no more vnto whome I giue more credite then vnto all the Priests and Monkes which euer were or shall be And therefore eyther it must bée that they haue forged a newe Iesus Christ that dyeth and riseth agayne euery day and as often as they list and that they are all lyers or els that the Apostle hath written against the truth the which is impossible Wherefore it followeth that the first part of my proposition is true Eusebius Doe you not beléeue that the Priestes haue power to consecrate the body and bloude of Iesus and that they eate it flesh and bones as grose and as bigge as he was on the crosse Hillarius I doe aske you an other question wheÌ„ they haue eaten the flesh the bones what do thy with the skinne And how they could dine vpon Christmas day after that they haue eateÌ„ him thrée times For me thincketh they should haue their bellies too ful strouted Also wherefore doe you not demaund of me this question which is also very coÌ„mon among your deuines To weet whether Iesus Christ did eate himselfe Thomas What resolution doe they giue Hillarius That he did you may thereby know what reason there is in their doctrine Will you haue a more greater absurdite We do eate his flesh spiritually for to haue life But he who is the life what néede hath he to eat himselfe And if Iesus Christ did eat himselfe it must be that he hath two bodies the one which eateth and the other which was eaten O Lord God what dreams are these But if your Priests do eat the flesh and the bones they are worse then the Scithians For they were content with y flesh of man without eating the bones Neuerthelesse to the ende that you do not thincke that I will gainsay the word of Iesus Christ and that I am some Caparnaite who is offended with the preachinge that he made of eating his flesh and drincking his bloud or as the hearers who did forsake it I aunswere that there is thrée wayes to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ The
true manner the which he would teach vs by his worde and that hée would represent and frequent in the holy supper is spirituall and not carnall as he himselfe witnesseth sayinge It is the spirite that quickeneth the fleshe profiteth nothing The woordes that I haue sayde are spirite and lyfe Theophilus That is not ment that the fleshe of Iesus Christ doth not profite any thing the faithful sith y he himselfe calleth it the bread which came downe from heauen without which we cannot haue life nourishment nor saluation But the carnall sence and vnderstandinge of hys woordes and suche intelligence as the Capeâ—naites and hearers that were offended had is the fleshe eaten in such sorte as they vnderstande it For when wée shall haue the very fleshe of Iesus Christ in our mouth and that wée doe crashe it wyth our téeth and disgest it in our stomack it profiteth vs no more then to Iudas to haue kissed him and to the hangmen to haue touched him yea to bée sprinckled in hys bloude and to haue had his garmentes For Iesus Christ doth profite nothinge béeing knowen after the flesh except he be knowen through fayth by the whiche hée filleth and satisfieth vs also wyth his fleshe and bloude Therefore it is not néedefull that he discende from heauen nor y he remoue froÌ„ place to place for to feede vs in that manner wyth his fleshe and bloude and for to bée present wyth vs and in the middest of vs For he dwelleth in our heartes by fayth and lyueth in vs and quickeneth vs by his holy spirit Wherfore he calleth not the faythfull hys sepulchre but the temple of the liuing god For hée is not deade in the heartes of the faythfull but lyueth there and the faythfull by hym Euen as then the sunne is present wyth vs althoughe it descende not from heauen into the earth and maketh vs to féele hys vertue and power it illuminateth vs and through his heate and brightnesse nourisheth and quickeneth both man and beastes better then if it were héere in earth with vs euen so Iesus Christ that greate sonne of righteousnesse through his diuine power and vertue of his holye spirite doth gyue vnto our soules and bodyes hys flesh and his bloude and doth nourishe and fill vs and maketh vs to feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion and of his body and bloude that hée hath gyuen for vs better then if we did eate his flesh with our téeth and there dyd deuoure and swallow it in wyth his bloud in our stomacke insomuch that there is not a body which is so well nourished and fedde wyth bread and wine that hée eatcth and drincketh as the faythfull who with a true and liuely faith commeth vnto him and receyueth his woorde and communicateth the Sacramentes that he hath ordayned is filled and satisfied wyth his flesh and his bloude For hée hath sayde he that commeth to mée shall not hunger and he that beléeueth on mée shall neuer thurst If he that commeth and beléeueth in him shall no more hunger nor thurst it followeth then that in beléeuing and communicating his Sacramentes hée hath eaten and dronken and is satisfied Hillarius That sufficeth which you haue nowe spoken off friend Theophilus for to proue my meaning For we haue not at this present neyther better time nor fitter occasion for to pursue more fully that matter But I wil not graunt vnto thée Eusebius that the Priestes doe eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christe after that sorte For sith that they séeke his carnall presence they depriue themselues of his spiritual presence according to the witnesse of the Apostle which sayth Wée haue an Aulter whereoff they maye not eate whiche serue in the Tabernacle If those who doe serue in the Tabernacle of Moses and put yet all their affiaunce in the leuitical Ceremonies and sacrifices are shutte out and depriued from the true sacrifice of Iesus Christe what communion can those haue wyth hym who haue altogether ouerthrowen his Sacramentes and Ordinaunces and haue founde out and inuented newe sacrifices more intollerable then euer the Iewes vsed There is an other manner to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ the which I cannot graunt vnto them y is the carnall eating as the Caparnaites dyd vnderstande it euen as one eateth the fleshe of the butchery Iesus Christe whiche is at the ryght hande of God cannot bée eaten after that sorte For hée is the breade of Angels and of the true chyldren of God and of his shéepe and not of Dogges Wolues Hogges Lyons and wilde beastes But I wyll graunte vnto them the thirde manner to eate Iesus Christ and doe confesse wyth thée that they doe eate it truelye reallye and essentiallye not onely in flesh and bones but which is more least you shoulde accompte mée for an hereticke besides the flesh and bones they doe eate the skinne and breake the bones for to sucke out the marrowe that is therein bycause they haue founde suche good taste in the meate Thomas If they doe so they doe worse then the Iewes For they brake not a bone of Iesus Christ Theophilus That was bicause that it was necessarye that in him should be fulfilled which was figured represented by the pascall Lambe of which they must leaue his bones whole For we cannot haue Iesus Christ but that we must haue him whole his vertue power cannot be broken by death it selfe Thomas I haue not yet very wel vnderstood you Hillarius I will declare it vnto thée by a cléere demonstration by euident arguments Diddest thou not first confesse vnto me that all the true faithfull are the true members of Iesus Christ Thomas I confesse it Hillarius If they be members of Iesus Christ they are then his body of which he is y head as the Apostle doth witnesse in many places Thomas I doe agrée vnto you in that Hillarius Forasmuch then as the faithfull are the body of Iesus Christ you will also graunt mée that those which eate the faithfull and poore widowes orphants doe eate Iesus Christ And if you will denie it I will proue it by that that Iesus Christ sayd vnto Saul saying Saul Saul why persecutest thou me In the same manner then as Iesus Christ doth complaine himselfe to be persecuted wheÌ„ his members are So may I say without digressinge from the Scripture that those eate Iesus Christ that do eat his members Thomas But you haue not yet proued that the Priests doe eate the members of Iesus Christ Hillarius It hath ben alredy proued by the things that were spoken before For haue I not already tolde thée how they doo eate both the quicke dead But least thou shouldest thincke that I speake without the Scripture beholde his witnesse What doe you vnderstande by that rebuke and checke that God did vnto the tyrants and enemies of his people when he complained
men after their death to make Drations in their prayse aswell for the consolation and comforte of their parents as for to incitate and moue others vnto vertue by theire examples For that cause they doe rehearse their prowesses their vertues and valyauntnesse And to make an honest mention at sometime for to encourage others to bée vertuous Thucidides witnesseth that the custome to praise the dead did begin among the Greekes by Pericles who was the first that openly made an oration in the prayse of those which were dead in the warre of Peloponense Also among the Romaines Valerius Publicola was the first which after that manner praysed his companion Brutus as witnesseth Titus Liuius Afterwards that custome hath continued among the Gentiles Idolaters If our Priests would serue vs in that stead the thing would be more tollerable although the we haue the word of God sufficient inough for to merte moue vs vnto vertue honestie But they serue vs to none other ende but to ease and the greatest thoeues and vsurers are those vnto whom they doe the greatest honours and giue the greatest prayses and doe bury them with greatest magnificence But if any poore man doe bye that hath not readye money scant and with muche a doe shall hee haue one Priest sor to beare him companye nor one scant to ringe the lyttle bell Theophilus There is no doubt but the the auncient Christians bicause the some were come of the Iewes some of y panims haue yet hept many of the manners and customes that they vsed in their countryes the which yet neuerthelesse they haue chaunged into a better vse For the Iewes and Panims had many things which of theÌ„selues might be tollerable and to serue to some kinde of honestie and cluilitie if the supersticion and the foolish opinions had bene taken away In the auncient Churche when that any faythfull man was dead béeing constant in the fayth of Iesus Christ and that he made a goodly confession in his death they vsed to make a commemoration to the congregation for to incite and stirre vp others to such faithe and constantnesse and chiefely when he hath bene killed by the Tyrants and that he hath bene the true martir of Iesus Christ in the mids of his torments hath constantlye confessed the truthe and hath witnessed it by his death and sealed it by his bloude For that cause the Notaryes and Protonotaryes were constituted and appoynted who were charged to write truely and after the truth the Ecclesiasticull historyes the lyues and dooings of the holy Martirs true seruaunts of God for the edification of the Church and congregation for at certein times they made commemoration vnto the Congregation of the fayth and constantnesse of the Martirs for to comforte and for tesie the poore faythfull in the middes of the persecutions that they suffered for Iesus Christ to the ende that after the example of the Martirs they shoulde prepare themselues rather to dye valyantly for the witnesse of the truth then to renounce and forsake it And the Dration and Sermon that Saint Ambrose made for the Emperour Theodosius after that he was dead tended to none other ende And when the good auncient byshops praysed after that sorte the good seruants of God that had faithfully trauailed in his worke vyneyard they did go about no other thing by that meanes but to edifie the congregation with good examples euen as the holy prophets and Apostles haue described vnto vs the holy scriptures the liues and actes of holy men which haue bene called of God for to instruct and teach vs by their example This manner of doing was not altogether to be despised and it might be practised to ediflcation if sathan the enemie vnto all goodnesse had not altogether conuerted and turned it into superstition Idolatry and blasphemie as wee see and proue it dayely For from those beginninges the Prothonotaries are descended whome wée haue yet at this present time who keepe onelye the name without exercising the office For to what ende doe they serue vs Hillatius To hunt after and so laye wayte for benefyces What woulde you they shoulde doe woulde you haue them to wrytte and register the lyues of our Popes Cardinals Byshoppes Priests and Moonkes They will leaue the charge of that vnto the Lutheriaus whiche are their protonotaries for to describe and paint out the legend of such saints and Martyrs of Venus rather then of Iesus Christe For theyr lyfe and conuersation is so holy that they had rather that men woulde neuer speake of it and that the remembraunce thereoff shoulde bée altogether defaced and forgotten Yet I thincke that they rendered no greate thanckes vnto Platine who hathe wrytten so muche althoughe that he tourned the sayest side outwardes as nigh as hée coulde Theophilus Thys is yet the leaste faulte of the Prothonotaries But from that same fountayne is risen and sprong vp the errour of inuocation of Saints of feasts wanderings blessings relycks pilgrimages and all other Idolatry and supersticions which men do commit dayly about the Saints For wheras in the auncient Church men did but onely make mention of the lyfe faith and constantnesse of the Martirs and Saynts when the people assembled themselues in the Ecclesiasticall assemblyes without inuocating or praying to the Saynts but onely vnto God Afterwards in processe of time the supersticious and Idolatrous Christians haue made of the Saynts Gods and haue dedicated to them Feasts Temples Aultars and Chappell 's And haue begonne to sing Himnes and supersticious songs in their honour prayse after the same manner as the Panims and Idolaters did to their Binges and Emperours when they Caâ—onized them And are not content to preach their lyues and Legende as the auncients did but haue added vnto it fables and lyes and haue made to them Masses in such sort that for one supper of Iesus Christ we haue more then thrée hundreth nullyons of Masses all contrary and differinge the one from the other By that meanes the Prophecie the preaching of the worde of God the Supper of Iesus Christ Prayers and Ecclesiasticall assemblyes and the true commemoration of the Saints are altogether abolyshed in such sorte that there is nothing but that it is altogether peruerted and tourned into more greater superstition and Idolatry then euer it was among the Panims As much happened about the other faythful that dye which are not counted for Canomsed Saynts For as on the one side they are giuen to inuocat pray to the Saynts whom they beléeue to bée in Heauen Euen so on the other side they giue themselues to praye for the deade whom they thinke to haue yet neede of their prayers and good deedes for to helpe them and to prepare the waye to Heauen â—â— steede of the simple commemoration y they did in y auncient Chruch without vsing praiers for the health of their soules but
the prophecie which Esay prophecyed against the Aegyptians be accomplyshed vppon them and vppon all their Fishers and vppon those which lyue about their riuers and which make the instruments of Idolatry supersticion Hillarius What is that Prophecie Theophilus Giue eare and you shall see whether it agréeth not well to our matter The water of the Sea sayth hée shall bée drawne out Nilus shall sinke away and be dronken vp The riuers also shall be drawen out and the wells shal decreace and dry away Réede and Rush shall fayle the grasse by the waters side or vppon the riuers banke yea and whatsoeuer is sowen by the waters shall be wythered destroyed and brought to nought The fisshers shall mourne all such as cast angels in the water shall complayn and they that spred their nettes in the water shal be faynt hearted Such as labour vpon Flare and Silke shal come to pouertie and they also that weaue fine workes And all those which doe make pondes and stewes for the lyuing soules shall be sorrowfull for their nettes Hillarius It is not possible to finde out a prophecie which better agreeth with them For this heere maketh mention of waters of Fisshers of Flare workers of makers of nettes of makers of pondes and stewes in which they doe keepe and holde fast the lyuing soules as the fisshers doe keepe their fishes in their stewes and fish pents It maketh also mention of their instruments of the workemen that make them the they feare nothing lesse least that the preaching of the Gospell should drye vp those riuers as Demetrius those of his sect greatly feared the thorow the preaching of Paul the honour of Diana the great goddesse of the Ephesians should be diminished their gayne with hir Therefore they are not to be blamed although they loke to it so diligently It in more then time that the vertue of God doth shew foorth it self for to deliuer his poore people from the handes of so many fishers which plunge drown so many poore soules through their lakes puddles Those are terimen marrincrs which do drowne all those which enter into their boates ships For they haue not Iesus Christe with them which causeth the windes tempests to be calme to cease which causeth alwaies a safe landing and port Theophilus And therefore it shoulde be more reasonable that we should cry after him as the Apostles did saying Lord saue vs that we should make our prayer vnto God that he would deliuer vs from that déepe take al those that be aliue then to sing for the dead For if Dauid the other seruauntes of God did complaine themselues to haue bene drowned in the lakes of tribulation and mysery that the waters haue enuironed couered them ouer the head wée haue no lesse occasson to complayne Esay desiring to signifie the misery tribulation which should come vnto Hierusalem and to all the lande of Iuda by the army of Sennacherib sayth that she shall be enuironed wyth waters vp to the throate And vseth such comparison for to let them to vnderstand that the same army shal destroy and couer all the land euen as Euphrates did couer and destroy that lande of Assyria when it ouerflowed making comparison by the souldiers host vnto the riuer bicause that both the one and the other doe passe through one lande But Hierusalem was neuer so afflicted nor oppressed by the vyolent waues of the armye of the Assyrians as the poore Church is troden downe and oppressed by that great Romish Sennacherib and his army whiche is innumerable throughout all the whole worlde as the sande of the sea But we haue spoken inough of the Lake It resteth now to absolue the doubte which I haue alreadye begun Forasmuch friende Eusebius as you say that that hell and déepe lake of which mencion is made of it in the affertory for the dead is taken for purgatory what doth y signifie which is spoken off afterwards Deliuer thē from the lyons mouth least that hell do not deuour them I beleeue the they vnderstand by the Lyon none other but the Dyuel who as S. Peter witnesseth is our enemy walketh about séeking whom he may deuour But sith the the soule is separated from the body how can it be deliuered frō the mouth of y roring denouring lyon if the soule be of a reprobate which dieth out of y saith of Christ who shal deliuer it from his throte when God hath giuen it him And if it be of a faithfull man Iesus Christe who is the strong and inuincible Lion of the tribe of Iuda who hath had the victory ouer that Lion which is aduersary and enemy vnto God hath he not already deliuered it hath not he killed and prohibited the mouth of that hungry Lion as a true Sampson and Dauid in such sorte that he hath no more teeth nor fanges for to deuoure the childen of God whom the Lord Iesus holdeth as the Lyon his pray to whome none dareth to come nigh as Esay hath written that the Lord kéepeth Hierusalem and his elect people Also I thinke it not much vnméete if we make such prayer for those that be a liue the which Iesus Christ hath taught vs to pray and say And lead vs not into temptation but deliuer vs from euill And hee him selfe hath made the prayer vnto God his Father for his discyples as witnesseth Sainct Iohn He saith not I pray thee that thou wouldest deliuer them from euill after this life nor saith I pray not that thou wouldest take them out of the world but that thou wouldest kéepe them from all euill Also S. Peter doeth not exhort vs to abstaine from meates to bée sober watche and pray and to arme vs with faith againste that roaring Lion for those that be dead but for our selues whilest that we be a liue to the ende we may auoyd his mouth for to come vnto that holy light which he hath promised vnto Abraham and vnto his seede For according to your doctrine sith that the soule is seperated from the body if man hath not had here remission of his sinnes before his death he cannot haue it after And if he haue it in this life he goeth either into Paradise or into Purgatory If he be in Paradise it is no more to bee feared that hell can swallow him vp If he bée in Purgatory although that according to your opinion he be in paynes yet neuerthelesse you confesse that he is past the danger of damnation and that he is sure of his saluation Wherefore I vnderstand not howe that prayer can agrée with the worde of God and the doctrine of the auncient doctors your owne For you speake against your selfe If that prayer doth profit the soules of the dead in the other life it must then bée that ther is yet great
the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr◠vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude
Theophilus If it doe profite as much him which doth not communicate really the Sacrament as him which doth communicate so that he haue fayth as well as the communicant to what ende then serueth to goe to the supper And wherefore hath Iesus Christ sayd deuyde this bread among you and drincke yée all of this cuppe wee shall then néede no more if wee wyll not take the supper really But that the father may send his sonne the husbande hys wyfe the master his seruaunt which may communicate for them and they wythout mouing or wagginge themselues shall communicate spyrytuallye by fayth so that the intention and deuotion bée such in them I am not ignoraunt but that the true communication is spirituall and thorowe fayth wythout which the outwarde bringeth more domage then lprosite But doste thou thincke that Iesus Christ hath instituted the signe and the extericure Cermonye of he Sacrament wyll out cause and that heâ— woulde not but that wee our selues shoulde communicate excepte wée haue some lawfull let which draweth vs backe as sickenesse imprisonment faulte of minstringe it or other like doubt which procéedeth not of our fault of infidelitie or dispisinge it Truelye I wyll not denie but that in such a case those which cannot bée present at the suppen should haue iust excuse and that they doe communicate spiritually with Iesus Christ But I demaund of thée Eusebius if thou wouldest bée content that an other shoulde dine for théeâ— and if in fasting thou shalt be refreshed with the meate that an other shal haue eaten Thomas As for my selfe I wilâ—not agrée vnto it For that is no place in which he must haue a lieuetenant and vicare I bad rather haue him in all other thinges then in the table Theophilus If you would not in coryorall thinges wherefore will you accept it in spirituall thinges can I liue of your soule or you oâ— mine Thomas No. Theophilus Nowe for asmuch as the fayth is the life of the soule it must be that euery one doe lyue of his owne and wée must not say I beléeue as my maybe beléeueth But it must bée that I my selfe doe beléeue and that I doe knowe and vnderstande that which I beleeue Furthermore sith that the woorde of God the preachinge of the Gospell the administration of the sacramentes are meanes by which God nourisheth keepeth augementâ—th and confirmeth the fatith in vs as the lyfe the body by the meanes of bread and other meates wée ought to vnderstande that as there is no man that can take foode and nourishment for mée if I my selfe doe not take it so cannot hée heare the Gospell nor receyue the Sacraments for mee But it is necessary that I doe them my selfe in proper person If I wyll haue the profite yea thoughe I were an Emperour Nowe if tho liuinge cannot doe it for the liuing what can they doe for the dead In lyke manner as touchinge the generall supper which is made amonge all the people howe doe the Priestes handle yors It was not inoughe for them to haue vsurped the Sacrament for them alone a great tyme but that they must yet defrande you of the moytie the same daies that you would communicate For they doe not gyue you to drinke of that same wine the which they doe drinke but haue establyshed and concluded by theire counsells that it sufficeth the laye people to communicate vnder one kinde onely that is to saye of the bread and that there should bée none but they whiche shoulde communicate vnder both kindes of the bread and wine And the same was determined in the counsell of Constance holden in the yeare 1415. the xb daye of Iune in the 13. Sessions agaynst the authoritie not onelye of the worde of God but of all the aucinet Doctors and also of their decrées and Canons Wherefore it is easely to iudge of what spirite those were lead that were ther assisting and which haue made such determination haue iudged Iohn Hus and Hierome of Prague to bee burned who vphelde the doctrine of the auncient Church At the least they could not deuye but that they were constrayned to condempne eyther that counsell or the same of Basle whiche afterwardes ordayned that it was permitted to the Bobemians to communciate vnder doth kindes the which was obteined by great disputation as the Chronicles doe witnesse and the Epistles written of that matter But there is no doubte but that the same of Basle is therein more agreeing to the auncient doctrine It is meruayle that they doe forbid the cup vnto the laye people and theire owne canons in some places do iudge those for sacriledgers excommunicate which do take it but in one kinde doe not take y cup as it it is easely to see de cosi dist 2. in many Canone Thomas But there is great difference betwéene that that you drinke theris For they thinke y theirs is no more wine but that it is changed into y bloud of Iesus Christ thorow the vertue of their consecration But they do accompt and take yours but for wine bicause that it was consecrated Hillarius They giue it you but for to rinse wash the téeth if peradueÌ„ture there do stick any of the flesh which they haue giuen you to eate For according to the witnesse which Humbert Cardinall a Rorguignon hath rehearsed in the honorable recantatioÌ„ that he made for Berengarius conteyning the fayth of Pope Nicholas the which they haue caused him to rehearse and recite wée must beleeue that the body of Iesus Christ is there taken with the mouth of the faythfull and chewed brused with the téeth It is moste certeine that their wine is no more bloud then yours But yer seeing the opinion that they haue and that they doe estéeme it more precious they doe you iniurye to depriue you of it Theophilus I doe meruaile how they dare depriue the people from the cup more then from the bread sith that Iesus Christ hath sayd expresly take yee and drinke ye al. But ther is no doubt y the priuate perticuler masses haue ingendred this error For euen as the Priests haue vsurpled the office to celebrate y supper for others to make their dignitie to be of more value so they would make theirs to differ froÌ„ y same of others to take y both kinds for themselues leaue onely but one vnto y pleople to y end they do estme y the masse supper which the priest celebrateth were more worthy of more greater merite then y other faithful that it bringeth vnto theÌ„ more gaine For after that the people were perswaded in y opinion euery one did set theÌ„ aworke as workmen hired by daies for to sing both for the quick for the dead whereof they receiued great gaine of which we do yet at this day see y great riches treasures of the Monks of the order of S. Bener
cleane and very proper for to represent the same of the holy Ghost For it washeth purifieth cleanseth and refresheth the hearts and consciences for to comfort them and to make them bring foorth fruite pleasing vnto God in such sort that the water causeth the earth to fructifie renoweth and maketh it fertile washeth away the filthinesse from the body It quencheth and putteth out in lyke manner the fire and heate of wicked carnall concupiscences as the water quencheth out the fire and queÌ„cheth the thirst and alteration of the poore féebled soules refresheth them for euer The seconde cause is that hée would haue opened vnto vs the intelligence and vnderstanding of ceremonies baptismes and purifycations conteyned in the law of Moses of y prophets in like manner by which the holy ghost was promised chiefly by Esay Ezechiel vnto whom he maketh allusion hath had the regard thervnto Therefore he would expound them vnto vs and giue vs to vnderstand that those waters promised of God did signifie none other thing theÌ„ the abouÌ„dance of the holy ghost which ought to be shed foorth vpon all flesh as a riuer and a floud of water whiche watereth and ouerfloweth all the earth The which Sainct Peter witnesseth to haue bene accomplished both in him and in the other Disciples of Iesus Christ the day of Pentecost according to y prophecie of Ioel. And therefore Iesus Christ would as well in that place as in speaking vnto the Samaritane and bidding those which were in the temple to come drinke of those liuing waters vse those manners of speakings And for to declare vnto vs in like manner to what ende he hath instituted the signe of the water in the baptisme And that it is true I doe take Sainct Iohn for a witnesse who expounding the words of his Master saith that he vnderstandeth by those waters y holy Ghost y which the beléeuers ought to receiue Thirdly by that forme of figured speaking be teacheth vs in like manner what the Christian man ought to bée that is regenerated by the holy Ghost setting foorth the water and the winde which are bodyes more subtill thinner cléerer purer then the earth which is an elemeÌ„t more weightier vnpurer thicker and materyall These wordes then doe signifie as much as if hée had sayde that in stéede of that weightie earthlye carnall and corruptible man wée must be regenerated into a newe man heauenlye spirituall and perfect as much differing from this héere whiche is earthly and fallinge as the water and the winde doe differ from the earth And it must be that the same is done by the holy Ghost which is the true water which maketh that purification in vs. Eusebius Thy exposition is not without a fayre shew But ought I therefore the sooner to receyue it then the same of the auncient Doctours who in that place by the water haue vnderstanded the baptisme whiche is giuen by the water and chiefely Saincte Iohn Chrisostome Theophilus I am well content to magnifie with the auncients the Sacraments as much as shall be possible So that thou wilt vnderstande them so as they themselues would they should be vnderstanded For although that I would receiue the exposition of Chrisostome it followeth not therefore that by the same one may conclude the element of the water to be so necessary vnto saluation that without the same man cannot obteine it For wée must consider that when the scripture the auncient Doctors do speake of the sacraments they haue not regarde onely to the outward signe but do staye themselues principally vpon the thing signified by them the which they doe vnderstand properly And therefore following their intellygence we may expounde those wordes after that sence as if Iesus Christ did say hée which shall not wash away his sinnes which shall not receiue truely the holy Ghost and which shall not be receiued into my Church and into my flocke after the manner as I haue ordeyned that hée shoulde doe by the baptisme shall not enter into the kingdome of god It followeth not therefore that he which shall haue héere all the thinges comprised and signified by the baptisme ought to bée reiected and forsaken of God if he lacke but the water But yet the better to content thée I will declare vnto thée euidently that not onely the auncient Doctors but also the scholasticalles and questionaries doe confirme my sentence For the master of the sentences hauing moued the same question which thou hast propouÌ„ded touching those words of Iesus christ aunswered that the same place ought to be vnderstanded of those which may be baptised and doe make none accompt of it or that one may thus expound it he which shall not be regenerate of the water the holy Ghost y is to say of that regeneration which is made by the water the holy Ghost shall not be saued Now y regeneration cannot be made onely by the baptisme but also thorow penance and by the bloud Behold the very wordes of the master of the sentences who vnderstandeth by the bloud the same of the Martyrs which is shed for the witnesse of the truth For your owne doctours perceiuing the absurdities inconueniences which would followe if one would vnderstand that place of Iesus Christ of the exterior baptisme and to take it rigâ—rously haue béene compelled to say that there shoulde be three sortes of baptisme that is to saye of the water of the holy Ghost and of bloud by the whiche diuision they doe confesse openly that there is an other kinde of baptisme then the same of the water by the which man may be saued There is the baptisme of the holy Ghost and of faith which may be without the same of the water Vpon which the maister of the sentences alledgeth Augustine saying Thou doest demaund which is greatest either faith or the water I doubt not but that thou wilt aunswere vnto mée that it is the faith If then that which is least can sanctifie shal not that which is greater do it better to wit the faith of which Iesus Christ hath said he that beléeueth on mée yea though he were dead yet shall he liue Eusebius S. Augustine neuerthelesse concludeth of the words of Iesus Christ that none can come vnto eternall life without the sacrament of baptisme but those which do shead their bloud for the trueth in the Church But which is more he sayth we do not beléeue that any Cathecumenian hath eternall life although that he shall dye in good workes if he be not baptised or martyred You do well knowe that in the auncient Church those which had receiued the Gospell and were not yet baptised were called Cathecumenes bicause that one had instructed them in the faith And following that same matter he saith more ouer We beléeue that there is no way of saluation but for those that are baptised Theophilus I