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A19060 A refutation of M. Ioseph Hall his apologeticall discourse, for the marriage of ecclesiasticall persons directed vnto M. Iohn VVhiting. In which is demonstrated the marriages of bishops, priests &c. to want all warrant of Scriptures or antiquity: and the freedome for such marriages, so often in the sayd discourse vrged, mentioned, and challenged to be a meere fiction. Written at the request of an English Protestant, by C.E. a Catholike priest. Coffin, Edward, 1571-1626. 1619 (1619) STC 5475; ESTC S108444 239,667 398

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not offer so as heere out of mans infirmity his essentiall substance the end of his making and the nature of the vertue Lutherus Bucerus Pellicanus sup citati it selfe which is supernatural and requireth speciall help and influxe from God we haue these vowes to be impossible and not that only but further by a contrary command to be condemned euen by him to whome for whome alone they are made and offered by the makers 4. How far M. Hall approueth all these opinions I know not for heere without any reason he only supposeth his vnreasonable position and I find him notels where to insist on any other ground then that only of the weakenes or imbecillity of Nature for in another letter to Sr Thomas Challenor in which he slaunders if his Decad. 1. epist 5. word be a slaunder the vertuous Religious Virgins of Bruxells after some other foleryes which I let passe thus he writteth They are willingly constreyned sayth he to serue a maister whome they must A malicious surmize of the English Religious of Bruxells and cannot obey whome they neither can forsake for their vowes nor can please for their frailty what followes hence late sorrow secret mischiefe misery irremediable So this wanton companion But God and before God and his Angells their owne consciences the whole world are witnesses of their purity and so far they are from all sorrow mischiefe misery as this man is from all truth conscience or honesty for besides that their innocency is so well knowne and acknowledged if this axiome or rule of his may be graunted none would find greater sorrow runne into more mischiefe and misery then marryed men 5. And not to exemplify in any other then himselfe I demand when he was in France last with the L. Hayes and was so long absent from his wife whether he would hold him for an honest man who should either openly charge or closely by insinuation cast forth suspitions that both he and at that tyme was naught with other women at Paris and his wife with some other men in England For any may as well say of them both as he of these vertuous Virgios flesh is fraile and M. Hall and his wife were far a sunder temptations are frequent a continent life is impossible especially amongst Ministers for of such as had primitias spiritus when as yet this new Ghospell was as M. Iewell in his Latin Apology reporteth in herba in the grasse or first growth Erasmus euen at that tyme did write of them all Quae malum est ista tanta salacitas vnde tantacarnu rebellio in ijs qui se iactant agi spiritu Christi What so great lasciuiousnes is this with a mischiefe whence happens it that so great rebelliō of flesh is in these Ministers who brag that they are lead by the spirit of Christ Which being so that Ministers are so wanton their wiues oftentymes but light huswiues whereas M. Hall was far from home and aswell he as his wife like others of the same impression are both fraile and fleshly what followes hence but late sorrow secret mischife misery irremediable 6. Were this Christian dealing M. Hall doth it become a Minister a Doctour a Preacher and Character-maker thus to write This is indeed satyrae and sat irae to vse your owne words for heere is more bitternes and rancour then discretion or modesty and this veine of writing may much better beseeme some light headed satyrical Poet then one that would fain be taken for a sober Deuine For standing on these grounds and impossibility I may well say to M. Hall is it possible for you and your wife so many moneths to liue chastly asunder if you did liue chastly and is it impossible that these virgins whose whole life is a continuall practise of vertue after their vowes should remaine chast or can you deuise a better argument to proue their incorrupted purity in any tribunal of the world thē that which they do bring I meane the testimonyes of al as well friends as enemyes that know thē for they liue not in any obscure corner but the eye of the world thither still resort forren Catholikes thither Heretiks of all sects thither come many English there now for many yeares haue resided either Embassadours or Agents to his Maiesty our Soueraigne let euen their enemyes iuridical verdicts be taken vnder their oath whether any of them The spirit of Catholike Religious Nunnes is far different from the spirit of the hereticall English Ministers euer heard by any of any credit that Angelicall company either in generall or particuler to be touched or so much as suspected in that kind why then do you so maliciously go about to slaunder them Why do you endeauour to make others suspect ill of such who yet neuer gaue the least occasion of any ill suspition What learning or conscience can warrant this dealing I doubt not but if your wife should aske you M. Hall how you liued out of wedlocke so many yeares before you were marryed vnto her but that you would cleare your selfe and make her belieue that you were an honest man and the like would she say and sweare vnto you if you should aske her and yet in al that tyme was flesh fraile many temptations occurred and if for so many yeares togeather you could both liue a chast life why no more why not alwayes Is it possible for you to liue the one part of your life and that the more dangerous chastly and is it impossible to liue the other I would gladly know the reason hereof wherein it is grounded why I say the later part should more force vs to marry then the former The impossibility of a chast life refuted by S. Paul 1. Tim. 5. 7. Againe this impossibility cannot stand with the doctrine of S. Paul condemning the yong widdowes mentioned and counsailing S. Timo●hy to liue chast nor yet with the common doctrine of all the Fathers exhorting to virginity especially S. Ambrose and S. Augustine in their speciall bookes thereof of which two S. Bernard sayd Ab his duabus columnis Augustino loquor Ambrosio Bernard epist 77. crede mihi difficitè auellor From which two pillers Augustine I meane and Ambrose beleeue me I am very hardly drawne for where there is impossibility or necessity there is no sinne no counsaile no exhortation as none sinne in not making new stars in not remouing of mounteynes in not working new miracles and it were ridiculous for any preacher to go about to perswade their Auditors to absteyne from all meate and drinke sleep and rest because it is impossible that our life can passe without these helpes and no lesse impertinent was it in the Fathers to preach perpetuall chastity to veile Virgins to punish vow-breakers when as they could not alter their natures it being as impossible for them as these men will haue it to continue in that purity as to
they are heer againe repeated and Bellarmine not so much as once named in all the letter but this silence proceeded of no ill policy for he was loath to name the place from whence he had fetcht his store least there the Reader should by his recourse haue found the answers and discouered his weaknes 12. And the like policy he vseth in painting out his margent with Greeke Latin sentences Great vanity and ostentation which to the simple who vnderstand neither the one or other tongue maketh a great shew of sincerity and learning especially being conioyned with so many resolute speaches as when he saith That he passeth not what men and Angells say whiles he heares God say let him be the husband of one wife that one word saith M. Hall shall confirme me against the barking of all impure mouthes Againe That if he conuince not all aduersaries he will be cast in so iust a cause with so many eager chargings of vs with burning blotting out cutting away and peruerting what we cannot answere VVhat sayth he dare not Impudency do against all euidences of Greeke copyes against their owne Gratian against pleas of antiquity this is the readyest way whome they cannot answere to burne what they cannot shift of to blot out and to cut the knot which they cannot vntye and last of all with beating vs backe as he would seeme with our owne weapons For besides the Scriptures you haue Councells and those sacred Fathers and those ancient the Popes decrees Gratian the Canonist the later Cardinalls the Greeke Church and purer times which names alone wherewith his text and margent is stuft being thus ranged togeather cannot but make great impression in the eyes of the ignorant who without further enquiry as being not able to search into these matters take all for true which with these circumstances are deliuered vnto them 13. But these are now haue heretofore bene and wil be alwaies the sleights of heretiks to couer Heretikes couer a wolfe with a sheepe skin a wolfe with a sheeps skinne and on the fowlest matters to make the fairest pretence neuer making a deeper wound then where they would be thought to worke their greatest cure or vsing more deceit then when they most preach of plain dealing for heer M. Hall would seeme to sticke to God against men and Angells when as he cleane leaueth him he offereth to be cast in his cause if he do not euince it when as he relateth a meer fable a notorious vntruth talketh of our burning of bookes tearing out of places and the like where there is no shew or shadow therof he alleadgeth Canons Councells Fathers to no purpose but to delude his reader with their names and to hide his hooke with a more alluring bayte for without this art his wordes would be of no regard or able ●o perswade any Nam nec venator seram saith S. Greg. l. 7. epist ep 112. Gregory aut auem auceps 〈…〉 ret c. For neither ●he hunter would catch the beast or the fowler ●he bird or the fisher the fish if either the hunter ●r fowler should lay their snars open to be seen ●r the fisher with a bayte should not hide his ●ooke by all meanes we are to feare and beware ●f the deceit of the enemy least by a secret blow ●e do not more cruelly kill whome by open ten●tion he could not ouerthrow So he of the di●ls and we of heretickes 14. But now let vs come to the particulers ● M. Halls proofes and behold how well they ●nclude for somewhat you may imagine he Bernard ep 190. ●th found out quod tot latuerit sanctos tot praeterierit ●ientes or else he would neuer vse such cōfidence and Thrasonical vanting offer the hazard of a diuorce and to the end there may be no mistaking you must know that our controuersy is not whether any Priestes and Bishops haue bene marryed or had children for of that there can be The true state of the question is set downe which in this controuersy is much to be noted no difficulty it being euident the Father of S. Gregory Nazianzen afterward Bishop S. Hilary S. Gregory Nassen and others named in this epistle to haue had wiues some of them by their wiue issue but our question only is whether any afte● they were made Priests or Bishops did euer ma●ry or if they married not whether yet they vse their wiues which before they had wheth● that vse was approued as lawfull And this th● protestants affirme both in doctrine practis● and we deny and for our deniall bring the co●sent of all times all places all Authors of no● and credit for our assertion whereas M. Hall● now you shall see produceth little els but i● allegations impostures and meer vntruthe this we shall now examine 15. After a few idle wordes to no purp● thus he writeth But some perhaps mainteyn o● M. Hall beginneth with a cluster of vntruths Mariage not to be lawfull out of iudgment by them make much of that which Paul tells the● is a doctrine of diuells were it not for this opini● the Church of Rome would want one euide● brand of her Antichristianisme let their shaueli● speake for themselues vpon whome their y● lawfull vow hath forced a willfull and imp●ssible necessity I leaue them to scan the old ru● in turpi vote muta decretum So M. Hall making you see his first entrance with a fierce assa● being set as it should seem into some choller ere we end I hope we shall in part coole his courage and shew his chiefest talent not to be in disputing in which he is no body but in railing and lying wherein we contend not with him but willingly giue him the garland of that conquest and as for vntruthes they will be very frequent with him when as euen heer he beginneth with such a cluster togeather 16. For truly if any one out of iudgment In few lines no lesse then fiue vntruthes doubted of the mariage of priests clergy men he cannot but be further off from beleeuing it when he seeth M. Hall so without iudgment learning or truth to mainteyne it for omitting his railing in these few words are fine vntruths 1. That S. Paul calleth the single life of priests the doctrine of diuells 2. That this is a brand of Antichristianisme 3. That this vow is vnlawful 4. That it forceth an impossible necessity 5. That it is turpe votum which are contradictory tearms for a vow can neuer be turpe because it is defyned by deuins to be promissio socta Deo de meliore bono which can conteyne no turpitude in it I see we shall haue a good haruest ere we come to the end seeing he begins with so great abundance for all this his entrance consisteth only of vntruthes 17. Which vntruthes albeit I might with as great facility reiect as he doth aue●re them The first vntruth refuted seeing
followers of Christ to wit as his disciples be thou also disciple be a follower of Christ he prayeth for thee who prayed for them for he sayd I pray not only for my Apostles but for those who by their doctrin shall belieue in me that all may be one therfore our Lord will haue vs to be one that we may be all aboue the world that there be one chastity one will one goodnes one grace So S. Ambrose Out of which wordes M. Hall may learne from whence all Religious haue their strength and force to continue vntil the end to wit from the merit of the prayer of our Sauiour and his peculiar assistance 14. Furthermore concerning such enemies of purity as M. Hall who carped at S. Ambrose for Ambrose ibidem circa med his so feruent so frequent perswading to chastity and forbidding Religious women to marry thus he putteth downe his aduersaryes charge and his owne answere Initiatas inquit sacris mysterijs consecratas integritati pu●llas nubere prohibes You forbid sayth my acculer such as are entred into Religion and haue professed chastity to marry to which he replyes Vtinam possem reuocare nuptur ●s vtinam possem flammeum nuptiale pio integritatis mutare velamine c. I would to God I were able to hinder euen such as are to marry I would to God I were able to change the veile of marriage with the veile of virginity doth it seeme a thing vnworthy to you that the holy virgins be not drawne from the sacred altars to marry for them to whome it is lawfull to chuse their husband is it not lawfull for them to preferre God And a little after he demandeth whether this be improbum nouum aut inutile vnlawfull new or vnprofitable and against the first that This M. Hall will graunt though S. Ambrose do deny is against M. Hall he sheweth that it is not bad or vnlawfull for then improba essent vota omnium improba vita est Angelorum quàm gratia resurrectionis imitatur qui enim non nubunt neque ducunt vxores erunt sicut Angeli in caelo All vowes should be vnlawful then is the life of Angells vnlawfull which the grace of our resurrection doth imitate for they who neither marry nor are marryed shall be like the Angells in heauen Thus S. Ambrose prouing immediatly after this life to be of singuler excellency out of the words of our Sauiour in S. Matthew of the Eunuches not so borne by the imperfection of Nature or made by the malice of man but by free election and voluntary choice laying violent hands on the Kingdome of heauen so framed by themselues and after alloweth yea defendeth the entrance of yong virgins into Religion with more to the same effect which for auoyding of prolixity I pretermit and conclud the possibility of this vow in al virgins eyther yong or old with the words of Origen tractat 7. in Matth. Origen answering an obiection of the Heretiks that this gift is not for all 15. Non omnes capiunt verbum hoc all men receaue not this saying but to whome it is giuen and thereby some pretended that they would willingly haue liued chastly but were not able Quibus est respondendum siquidem accipimus libenter quod dictum est sed quibus datum est c. to whome it is answered sayth he if we take that simply which is sayd sed quibus datum est but to whome it is giuen and marke not what is sayd in another place Petite dabitur vobis omnis qui petit accipit aske and it shall be giuen vnto you and euery one who asketh doth receaue eyther we are not of the number of the faythfull or vnderstand not the Scriptures for he that will be capable of that which is sayd of chastity let him aske and trust in him who sayth accipiet and he shall receaue no way doubting of that which is sayd omnis qui petit accipit euery owne who asketh doth receaue So Origen In whose words is insinuated another ground from whence not only the possibility but faciliiy also of these vows do proceed that is from two mayne fountaynes wherof one is the prayer of Christ for vs before mentioned the other is our prayers to him the first for acceptance can haue no repulse the other hath his promise for our assurance both the one and the other makes all yokes sweet and burthens light 1. And besides these helpes there is another from which this power and possibility of a chast life doth principally flow I meane the passion of our Sauiour the meritorious cause of all our grace and sanctification one speciall effect whereof is that by vertue and force deriued from the head to the members they may be able to exercise all Christian vertues to offer vp a pure sacrifice of vowed virginity to him who being the Author of all purity and sonne of a virgin therefore as S. Hierome writeth among other our redeeming torments would be crowned with thornes that from them the roses lillyes and flowers of virginity the chief garland of his glorious conquest and triumphant spoile on earth might bud and spring forth Ideo Iesus Hier. ep ad Demetriad ante med spinis coronatus est sayth he delicta nostra portauit c. Therfore was Iesus crowned with thornes did beare our offenses and lamented for vs that out of the thornes and tribulations of women to whome it was sayd the woman shall bring forth her children in sorrow and griefe c. the rose of virginity and lillyes of chastity might spring vp for this cause doth the bride-groome feed amongst the lillyes and among them who Cant. 2. Apoc. 14. Eccles 9. haue not defiled their garments because they haue remayned virgins and haue obeyed that commandment Let thy garments be alwayes white and the Author and Prince of viginity Cant. 2. speaketh confidently I am the flower of the field and lilly of valleyes So S. Hierome 17. From whose wordes I gather our Aduersaryes in this to be iniurious to our Sauiours passion who in other things as after we shal see to rid their hands of all labour will out of presumptuous temerity seeme to rely thereon more then they should for as from that euer flowing founteyne or rather full ocean of merits mercyes whatsoeuer force we haue to practise any action of piety is deryued so to deny the same vnto this particuler so particulerly gratefull vnto him as to make it a thing impossible what is it els then to weaken the force diminish the value and in a manner cuacuate the whole effect of his suffering And to make such as are redeemed by his bloud sanctifyed by his grace partakers of his merits to be as faint and feeble in the workes of vertue as any Pagan or Infidell liuing vnder the imbecillity of nature and altogeather deuoyd of these supernaturall helpes which is more to