Selected quad for the lemma: law_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
law_n	write_a	write_v	year_n	107	3	4.4301	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88107	The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster.	Ley, John, 1583-1662.	1645 (1645)	Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462	96,520	124

their opinions and forward to engage in termes of contradiction and when they are once heated with a fond affection to their owne fancies which is the more blowne up by the breath of an opposite they are not masters of their owne words nor can they exercise any reasonable rule either upon their spirits or speeches and sometimes they second their precipitancie in both with such a pertinacie of will and stoutnesse of stomach that they choose rather to cast firebrands about to put Nations and Churches into a dangerous combustion then quietly to compose any personall quarrell of their owne though never so inconsiderately stirred up by them this is the extremitie of that malignant and mischievous practice which God professeth especially to hate Prov. 6.19 And for the opprobrious termes he complaineth of if he had the patience to beare them when he heard them and did not reciprocate one contumely for another as some say he did he should have had the prudence and to that should have advised him had I been of his counsell to have buried them in silence and not for that which was but whispered in the eare to propose it to publique view that every one may read the reproach of K. and F. put upon him in print SECT VIII The Argument against the speedy setting up of the Presbyteriall Government taken from Christs practise answered A Second exception reduced to the example of Christ in his practise is that * § 3. p. 4. Christ Iesus himselfe could as easily have setled his Government by miracle as any can now by Civill power if there had beene such a primary or morall necessitie of establishing it so soone upon a people scarce enlightened for any part of it But we see the contrary first in himselfe he taught long and Iohn before him and so the Disciples and the gifts for Government were not given till he ascended and the modell for Government was not brought forth but by degrees and as people fell in and were capable of the yoke and would mould more easily to the Commandements of Christ and whether then or no is yet a Question which some have sit the debates to though not with me who am fully perswaded of the power of order which the Apostle ioyed to behold though a power with as little dominion in government as tradition in worship Answer 1. The acts and times for the Divine providence towards his Church are various and the reasons of them many times reserved to God he could no doubt have governed his Church in the first age of the world by the scepter of his written word but there was no Scripture till God wrote his Decalogue or ten Commandements in Tables of stone Exod. 31.18 and if the Booke of Genesis were written before it was yet after the birth of Moses for he was the Penman of it who was not borne till the yeare of the world 2373. all this while God had his Church and no written Law for the government of it Yet when he brought the Israelites out of Egypt which was in the yeare 2454 the next yeare after he gave direction for the building of a Tabernacle and to the Morall Law forementioned added Lawes Ceremoniall and Iudiciall divers of which were not to be put in execution untill their coming into Canaan which was well neere fortie yeares afterward so farre was he before-hand with the government of his Church of the new edition 2. Whereas he saith that Iesus Christ could have as easily setled the government of his Church by miracle as any can now by Civill power we grant it yea and more that he could have done it without a miracle and yet more that he did so when he chose Apostles and gave them the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven Matth. 16.19 for remission and retaining of sinnes Ioh. 10.23 and set downe a rule of graduall proceeding with offenders Matt. 18.15 16 17. 3. If it be said that this was late in the Ministery of our Saviour and therefore we must take his example not onely for the thing it selfe but for the time this will make more for the Anabaptisticall delay of Baptisme then for delay in Discipline or Government for he was not baptized untill he was about thirty yeares of age Luk. 3.23 but he began to set up a government of his Church within the compasse of his publique Ministery which at the most lasted but foure yeares space and many learned men confine it to three yeares and an halfe or thereabouts As for Iohn Baptist his time was shorter for he was beheaded in the second of the foure yeares forementioned nor did it belong to his Office to set up a government in the Evangelicall Church but to prepare the way of the Lord by preaching repentance unto the people Matth. 3.3 Isa 40.3 4. Whereas he saith the gifts of government were not given till Christ ascended to that it may be answered 1. That he ascended fortie three dayes after the period of his publique Ministration which added to the yeares forementioned make but small difference as to the government in question 2. That though he gave them an increase of gifts for government as he did for preaching he put his Apostles upon neither of those offices without competent gifts and qualifications for them 5. For the model of government which he saith was brought forth by degrees as people fell in and were capable of the yoke I would know what model he meaneth if he meane any model of Christ or his Apostles as it appeareth he doth for saith he against Mr. Colemans opinion I am fully assured of a power of order which the Apostle reioyced to behold Col. 2.5 I aske whether this be given by tradition or contained in the Scripture I suppose he will say of Government as well as of Worship not by tradition but by the written word and if so though it were but young in the time of Christ or his Apostles it is very ancient to us for we have no part of the written word but it is fifteene hundred yeares of age at least why then should that which is so old in constitution be thought too soone to be put in execution at the present especially since besides the direction for it in the Scripture we have had these many yeares severall patterns of it in many reformed Churches in the Christian world Nor doe our brethren of Scotland though they assert it from Scripture to be the will of God expect that the Parliament should establish it Jure Divino * M. Gelaspi● his brotherly examination of M. Colemans Sermon p. 32 33. If they shall in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing which is really and in it selfe agreeable to the word of God though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ they are satisfied If it be best as his words imply that the government be brought in by degrees so it is in the present reformation for it

pressing and imperious necessities of the Commonweale requiring the raising of supplies in extraordinarie wayes for its owne support and preservation from perpetuall ruine and notwithstanding the exemplarie justice of the Parliament upon their owne members of both Houses to which may be added to their glory and the Kingdomes comfort their most just and impartiall provision against oppression of the people either by themselves or their substituted Committees the Libellous and in respect of some passages of his Booke I may say blasphemous Authour taking no notice of any thing that may be justly pleaded for the proceedings of Parliament labours to represent them to the people as a combination of most grievous and ●ngratefull oppressours I will set downe his owne words but so as the Scripture doth the blasphemies of Satan or Rabshakeh and other such like * The word cometh of Saraph which signifieth to burne and of that is derived the noune Saraph with the onely difference of a long vowell for a short which is used for a fiery serpent Isa 14.29 S●raphicall slanderers that they may be as odious as their disposition is dangerous to all good men if they had as much power in their hands as there is gall in their hearts their tongues and pens the Title of this out-lashing Libell is set downe in these words * For an Antidote against such calumnies see M. Prinnes Booke entitled The Lyar confounded Englands birthright justified against all arbitrary usurpation whether Regall or Parliamentary or under what vizor so ever With divers Queries Observances and Grievances of the people declaring this Parliaments proceedings to be directly contrary to those fundamentall Principles whereby their Actions at fast were justifiable against the King in their present Illegall dealings with those that have beene their best Friends Advancers and Preservers And in other things of high concernment to the Freedome of all the Free-borne people of England What ever the man is the B●●ke is no hypocrite for it i● th●s●●● within which it seemeth without For page the 33. he putteth this Qu●re and his Queres are implicit resolutions on the wrong side Whether is it not agreeable to law justice equitie and conscience that there should be a Parliament once every yeare and more often if need require whereby he meaneth that this Parliament hath sate too long already for a little after he chargeth them that many of the Members have betrayed their trust and those that remaine ingrosse Law-making and also Law-executing into their owne hands contrary both to reason and to the true intent and meaning of the Law and within a few lines he goeth on thus By which manifest abusing negligent and not true using the Lawes oppressions mischiefe● and grievances are no lesse if not farre more increased then they were before the Parliament began and many times by the powerfull Interest of a faction in the Parliament to save some one two or three of their Members undeserving credits they so violate the knowne unrepealed and declared Law of the Land yea and their owne Votes Ordinances Declarations and Protestations as if they had never made them I say all these things considered ought not the Freemen of England who have laboured in these destroying times both to preserve the Parliament and their owne Native freedomes and birth-rights not onely to choose new Members where they are wanting once every yeare but also to renue and enquire once a yeare after the behaviour and carriage of those they have chosen And having page 44. aggra●●●ed the condition of the times by taxes and impositions instancing in the Trade of Ha●makers he concludes with this enclamation which may serve for an incentive to seditions tumult O ●ruell pitifull and intolerable bondage no longer to be endured suffered or undergone the burden being heavier then the poore labourers can beare And that we may know of how lawlesse a Sect himself in and those whom ●e plead● for he pr●fesseth himselfe a litter enemy to Lawyers first 〈◊〉 the writer of a loose sheete of paper under the Title of Advertisements for the new election of Burgesses for the House of Commons by the name of a worthy Authour as a Caveat against filling up elections with such kind of men making the knowledge of the Law of nouse for making of a Statesman since it is saith he a confined and Topicall kind of learning calculated onely for the Meridian of Westminster Hall and reaching no furthen then to Dover for transplant a common Lawyer to Calice and his head is no more usefull there then a Sunne-Diall in a grave Whereas it is notorious to the world that sundry * As the L. Ver. M. I. Seld. Will. Pr. and some others whose excellently learned labo● praise them i● the gates professed Legists have been qualified with other learning and that both with great variety and in an eminent degree above other men Having impeached their heads he cometh downe to their hearts and hands and taxeth these for ill conscience as the other for ignorance Lawyers saith he being a bold and talkative kind of men will intrude themselves into the Chaires of all Committees where being accustomed to take fees they will underhand protect Delinquents and their concealed estates with tricks and devises He knoweth sure very little of the manner of Committees for no man can thrust himselfe into such an employment but is thrust into it by the major part of the Committee but there needs none Apologie where the Antilogie is none other then a most rash and unreasonable calumny and my present purpose is but to note how head-strong and unruly how refractory to Government and Law the Sectaries are already to what an height of insolence would they grow if which they presse for they should be permitted a toleration by publique Authoritie It may be some among them in time would take upon them as the proud and rude Rebell Wat Tyler in Richard the Seconds time who presumed among other most lewd and impudent demand● to * S. Daniel continuation of the History ad Rich. K 2. p. 5. propound this for one That all Law might be abolished affirming with an execrable oath before Night all the Law of England should passe through this strait clapping his hand upon his mouth But I must take my hand from this Table lest I trespasse against the publique Interest in detaining your Honour too long in beholding this Sciographie or shadow-draught of pernicious Sectaries sixce it is a time rather of action then of speculation and yet if your Honour have any spare houres for further information in the various and dangerous turnings and windings of the spirits of Errour whom Satan in these last and worst times hath sent out not by couples as our Saviour sent out his Disciples Mar. 6.7 but almost by Legions to seduce simple soules to trouble our publique peace and to reproach and retard the reformation desired I should make bold to offer to your view an

the duty of such as have the Legislative power wherein he that finds the fault is fittest to doe the office of an Admonitor unto them to suspend their authoritie for matter of Religion and to ordaine and decree nothing of that subject to be received or observed 2. A second reason which hath reference to Conscience he brings in upon experience thus * §. 5. p. 4. We have found by experience that the speedy setling of Government upon a Nation hath made reformation take little root save in the outward man or formall obedience because they received not reformation in the power of the word but of the State which went not so deepe into the conscience but they could part with it at any time upon a Law And he concludes his observation with a patheticall interrogation O then why doe not dayes speake and multitude of yeares teach knowledge To this may be replyed 1. That if he meane it in respect of our owne Kingdome and that experience is most like to come within his cognizance the fault was not in the over-speedy setling of a Government but in the choyce of a wrong Government viz. that of Prelacy which by an Act and Ordinance of Parliament and by the Nationall Covenant is cryed downe 2. If when Discipline is established Doctrine were abolished or for a time suspended and silenced there were some force in this exception of Mr. Saltmarsh but Doctrine goeth on where Discipline cometh in as a Schoole master is at the same time in Office both a teacher and a corrector of his schollers and so the power of the word may go deep into the conscience and the Discipline or Government is rather an helpe then an hindrance to that operation for 3. The Discipline or Government is as an hedge or wall about the Doctrine of Religion a goad or spurre to the meanes of grace to bring men under the power of the Words operation a curbe to licentious courses all which conduce much to the keeping of the conscience voyd of offence toward God and man and though with many the reformation reach no further then the outward man yet that is not to be imputed to the Discipline which brings them to the Word but to their owne corruptions and Satans sleights and deceits which hinder the Words kindly and saving worke upon them 4. Where the Discipline hath beene rightly chosen and timely established God hath blessed it with better fruits as in the Kingdome of Scotland whence it is that that Church hath had the favour and honour from God to be free both from heresie and schisme where with we of this Kingdome and State have abounded so much the more as the Discipline bath beene the more delayed which agreoth to Mr. Saltmarsh his politick observation in these words * M. Saltmarsh his practise of policy pol. 81. p. 69. When places of authoritie be likely to be vacant much more when authoritie it selfe is at a nonplus be ready in proiect with a successour long interregnums or interstices i. intermissions in government are the Winter and ill season of a State where the nights are long and the dayes short 5. And lastly for his Epiphonema with the words of Elihu forementioned which are taken out of Iob 32. vers 6 7. Why doe not dayes speake and multitude of yeares teach knowledge they make nothing for his purpose for the meaning of them is not that Government or Discipline or any other usefull thing should not be with all convenient speed established but that the ancient with whom is wisdome Iob 12.12 the gray headed and very aged men Chap. 15.10 who have had the experience of many dayes and yeares should be heard and heeded in matter of advice and consultation before such green-headed Counsellours as Rehoboam followed to his ruine 1 King 12. vers 13 14. SECT V. The Argument against the speedy setling of Church Government taken from example of the New Testament in generall answered A * § 3. p. 3 4. Third head of exceptions against the speedy so he calls it Paragraph 5. though the word hastily please him better in the body of the Quere setting up of Government is taken from Christian examples Contrary to 1. The New Testament in generall 2. In particular to 1. The example of Christ and that two wayes in respect 1. Of his description § 6. p. 4. 2. Of his practise § 3. p. 3 4. 2. The example of the most ancient Christians and excellent Ministers of Christ 1. As of John Baptist Christs forerunner 2. The Apostles his followers 1. For the generall § 4. p. 4. We never read in the New Testament of a Government setled upon any that were not brought first under Gospel obedience by the power of the Word and Spirit which thousands of Congregations in this Kingdome are not for as in materiall buildings stone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing and squaring so not in the spirituall and whereas in the Temple there should be neither axe nor hammer heard because things were fitted before hand and so laid together I question how this could be in our Congregations now I beleeve there would be now more of the axe and hammer heard then of the building seen● Answer 1. Here he argueth from the example of the New Testament negatively which considering the difference and disproportion of the times is very impertinent For the conversion we read of in the New Testament was from Paganisme and Judaisme to Christianitie and while men were Iewes or Pagans they were uncapable of a Christian Government our Congregations in England consist of professed Christians who as such are capable of and lyable to a Gospel Government without which the sanctification of the Sabbath the preaching of the Word cannot be well ordered nor either of the Sacraments rightly administred And though in thousands of Congregations there be many whom the power of the Word and Spirit hath not brought to Gospel obedience it is no cause why a Gospel Government should not be established over them nay rather it is reason why it should be hastened upon them and we may impute the profanenesse of the people to the want of it or of some parts of it whereby Church Governours may be enabled to put a difference betwixt the holy and the profane the uncleane and the cleane Ezek. 22.26 For the rod of Discipline 1 Cor. 4.21 may have a salutary operation in the Church as the rod of correction in the family Prov. 23.13 14. 2. He makes a comparison betwixt a materiall and a spiritual building See § 11. as in the materiall building stone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing and squaring so not in the spirituall of which words if I rightly understand them the meaning is that Churches must be gathered and made up onely of holy reformed Christians which are as hewen or squared stones to which I answer 1. That similitudes may illustrate a truth

confute in other particulars and I am willing to take notice of them rather from him then from Mr. Pr. though I have read them in his Booke for divers reasons 1. Because Mr. P. is a friend to the Presbyteriall government having both a M. Prinne his Vindication p. 56. pleaded for it and beene persecuted as he saith by Sectaries and Independents for his good will unto it 2. Because he b So in the Epistle to the Reader before his Vindicat. fol. 2. p. 2. professeth to love and honour with his soule the Assembly of Divines and hath in a booke of purpose vindicated them from Libellous aspersions of the Antipresbyterians I confesse Mr. Saltm was once so reverently and religiously conceited of them that he honored them in print with the Title of a most Sacred Assembly in a c M. Salem his Dedication of the Examinations or the Discovery of some dangerous positions delivered in a Sermon of Reformation in the Church of the Savoy on the Fast day July 26. 1643. by Tho. Fuller B. D. Dedication of a little book unto them some of whom my selfe for one desired him to forbeare that Title in the rest of the Copies which were not then wrought off from the Pres●e but being so farre engaged against the Presbyteriall way as now he is I cannot thinke he hath so good either opinion of or affection to the Assembly as formerly he hath professed unto them and towards them 3. Because I am confident that whatsoever Mr. P. writeth though I approve not all that is set out in his name he writeth with a very upright and sincere heart without any sinister end or aime at gaine to himselfe or glory with men 4. Because I have found him so kind to me in severall kinds that I am loth to take him for an adversary in any publique contestation and yet I shall take the boldnesse as just occasion shall induce me to use the freedome of a friend unto him and to be true to the truth without partiall respect to friend or foe 5. Because Mr. Pr. doth not write what Mr. Saltm alleadgeth out of him against expedition in the setting up of Presbyteriall government much lesse finally to suppresse it which seemes to be the desire and endevour of Mr. Salt●● SECT XIIII The objections taken from a supposed needlesnesse of the Presbytery answered THat which he produceth against the Presbytery in Mr. Prinnes name consisteth chiefly of two particulars 1. That there is no necessitie of it that it should be established 2. The want of efficacie in it where it is established For the first he produceth a remarkable passage as he cals it out of Mr. Prinnes Vindication in these words And if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that catalogue of scandalous sinnes and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Tem porall Laws and punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duely executed and inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare then all the Church Discipline and Consures now so eagerly contested for will doe in an age and will be the onely true way and speediest course to reforme both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with ruling and governing but preaching and instructing which is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts Answer This saying of Mr. P. I see beginneth to be had in honour by out Independent Brethren for it is the Alpha of Mr. S.E. and Mr. T.T. their defence of positions it is as the Omega of Mr. S. his answer to Mr. Prins Vindication and I wish the Authour of it may have so much of it from the better sort of them as may make him some amends for the contumelies and calumnies he hath suffered from the worse and if Mr. P. his Testimony be so authentick with them but with most of them I know it is not it may not be amisse to minde them not of a piece of a lease but of whole a Independencie examined unmasked refuted by 12. new parti●ular Interrogatories detecting both the manifold absurdities inconveniences that must necessarily attend it to the great disturbance of Church State the diminution subversion of the lawfull undoubted power of all Christian Magistrates Parliaments Synods and thaking the chiefe pillars wherewith its Patrons would support it And A fresh discovery of some prodigious New wandering-blazing starres and firebrands c. Books of his making against their way The words forecited containe three things 1. A remedie against scandalous sinnes and the sufficiencie of that remedie without Church-Discipline and Censures so eagerly contended for 2. An hope that the Parliament will consider of and take care that Ministers may not like Bishops formerly be taken up with ruling and governing 3. A reason of that hope because preaching and instructing is work enough to engrosse their time and thoughts 1. For the first the Remedy prescribed against scandalous sinnes If our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous sinnes they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Temporall Laws and punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duely executed and inflicted Answer Here is lesse required of the Ministers then is performed by many of them more promised concerning Lawes Punishments and Magistrates then without presumption can be expected by any For 1. For the Ministers they preach against those scandalous sinnes contained in the Catalogue and more too and undertake to adde many more to the Catalogue then are expressed and the Honourable House of Commons hath sent an Order to the Assembly of Divines to that purpose and when a supplement is made in obedience thereto there will be yet more found out not mentioned before so that there will be still new matter for addition unlesse there be a reserve 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of remaining particulars to be added when they are discovered and some cautionary Order made that the Minister may not be put upon this hard Dilemma either to administer to any against his judgement and conscience or to suspend his owne act of administration with hazard to himselfe either for his person or estate which will be a greater inconvenience then any worthy Communicant can suffer if he be upon the Ministers mistake unworthily denied his right to Gods Ordinance for one turne onely for before the next celebration of the Sacrament that which was doubtfull before may be fully cleared and of this difference there be two Reasons 1. If the party came worthily prepared and were refused he may have his part in the benefit of the Sacrament as if he had actually received for in such a case God accepteth the will for the deed