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A20679 An aduertisement to the English seminaries, amd [sic] Iesuites shewing their loose kind of writing, and negligent handling the cause of religion, in the whole course of their workes. By Iohn Doue Doctor in Diuinity. Dove, John, 1560 or 61-1618.; Walsingham, Francis, 1577-1647. 1610 (1610) STC 7077; ESTC S115461 57,105 88

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by his owne exposition this word ador amus we adore them is no more then if he had said We honour them and thinke reuerently of them or vse them reuerently because they be for exercise of deuotion and make difference betweene them and other things which are appointed only for ciuill vses And to make good this his expositiō he referreth vs to that decree of the Councel of Trent which before I haue alledged Moreouer he sheweth that as there is one adoration which is religious belonging to God so there is an other onely officious belonging to all Ecclesiasticall rites and ceremonies and such things as are vsed in the Church And to that purpose he alledgeth the authority of the 2. Councell of Nice which speaketh more in fauour of images then all other Councels and decreeth in this sort Imagines sunt venerandae non quidem cultu latriae sed honore illo quo prosequimur sacras literas vasa sacra Images are to be worshipped but how not with such worship as belongeth to God but onely to be honoured as the Church bookes and the Church vessels But I thinke no Catholicke holdeth that the Bible the Basen the Font and the Chalice are to be worshipped by adoration And so they call them sacras imagines sacred images as they call other things which belong to the Church res sacras holy things as the Communion cuppes vasa sacra holy Chalices the Font lauacrum sacrum their Priests personas sacras their Churches Aedes sacras their Bibles Biblia sacra and yet adore them not And thus as men ashamed of themselues they qualifie the matter by such subtilties among the learned to auoid suspition of idolatry continue the people in ignorance and grosse idolatry Againe whereas Aquinas and other Catholicke Doctors haue before deliuered in grosse tearmes that images are to be worshipped cultu latriae with diuine worship or such worship as is due vnto God Bellarmine to qualifie the matter and to reduce them to the meaning of the Councell of Trent would seeme to make a more milde exposition of these words coigning this distinction Inter sanctos eorum imagines reliquias betweene the Saints themselues and their images and reliques So inter Christum eius imagines reliquias betweene our Sauior Christ his images reliques And so he hath written that the images reliques are to be worshipped with the same worship as they whose images reliques they are and so the images reliques of Saints with the worship of doulia and of Christ with latria But yet at the length as a Cow that giueth a paile full of milke and then kicketh it downe with her heele he doth by a distinction so qualifie the matter and set downe such a state of the question whereby all is ouerthrowne For saith he that worship which is called latria and that which is doulia are of two sorts one is cultus verus a true worship which is due to the persons themselues the other but analogicus an analogicall or equiuocall worship onely which is due to the images and reliques But what difference is betweene analogum and analogatum a liue Saint and the picture of a Saint I referre the consideration thereof to the iudgmēt of all Scholers which haue learned but Aristotle his Antipredicaments As a painted man or analogical man is no man so analogical worship is no worship a painted man is but the resemblance of a man so analogicall worship is but a resemblance of worship and not worship it selfe But it is hard to deuise how they should make such a resemblance of worship before the image and not worship the image And howsoeuer if it were possible yet the Apostle teacheth how they ought to auoid all shew of euill And thus hath he auoyded that which was alledged against him by aequiuocation which is contrary to the law of Schooles To leaue their doctrine come to their scandalous practise we charge them with breach of the second commandement because they fall downe before their images Bellarmine in defence thereof saith They do not cultū tribuere simulacris tāquam Dijs worship their images as Gods but onely they worship God in the images of God Saints in the images of those Saints before whom they fall downe and that such worship is not prohibited in holy writ Now therefore vpon this point let vs ioyne our issue If to prostrate themselues before the image and say they worship not the image but God in the image might be lawful then might both Iews Gentiles which did the like haue excused their idolatry forasmuch as neither of them hold their idols to be Gods when they fall downe before them For knowing by the light of nature there was a God but knowing him not as he ought to be knowne nor in what sort he should be worshipped they framed idols worshipped him in those idols yet for so doing they were condemned in the holy Scriptures because he being a Spirit would be worshipped in Spirit but not in an idol and so he will not be worshipped in an image Concerning the Iewes which were idolaters they knew their golden calfe was no God but worshipped God in the calfe Bellarmine therefore asketh why they said Faciamus Deas qui praecedant nos let vs make Gods to go before vs Hi sunt Dij qui eduxerunt te de terra Aegypti these be the Gods which brought thee out of Aegypt I answer their maner was to call idols Gods but Deos repraesetatiuos gods by represetation because they made thē to represent God vsing the figure called enallage numeri Gods for God the plural number for the singular I answer him also by his owne distinction they did meane Deos analogicos non veros Gods analogically but not truly vniuocally vnderstood So in the story of the Iudges speaking of Micha the idolater the text saith This man Micha had an house of Gods the holy Ghost would not call his idols Gods but in this sense because they were idols There it is plaine that in the Scriptures that which is knowne vnderstood to be no God but an idol yet is called a God And that I may somwhat inlarge this point for the better satisfaction of the reader The Iewes knew that God in particular which brought thē out of Aegypt before the golden calfe was made for a little before he came down in their sight vpon mount Sina they heard him speake with their own eares he appeared in thundering lightning his presēce was so terrible they were afraid they said to Moses Talke thou with vs and we will heare thee but let not him talke with vs lest we dy therfore could not think this calfe which they made afterward to be the same God which could not speake nor terrifie them at all and consequently they held it to be but an analogicall or representatiue God But
Potter may do Neither is this to condemne men the cause being not heard for the whole lumpe being corrupted the particulars could not be cleare neither was any particular to expostulate with God the whole lump being iustly damned more then Moses was to be admitted to plead for himselfe why he should not be cast into the water when it was decreed generally that all male children of the Hebrues should be cast into the water It was sufficient without further arguing the case that Moses was a male childe of the Hebrues so it was sufficient that Esau was the sonne of Adam That God elected but a small remnant and damneth many millions it is no new doctrine our Sauiour saith Many are called but few are chosen Saint Augustine saith God is glorified as well by destroying as by sauing of mankinde else he would not create so many millions whom he knew before should be damned If all saith Augustine which are borne of Adam should be saued lateret beneficium quod donatur indignis Gods mercy to them which are saued which are indeed vnworthy of saluation would not appeare Plures Deus facit damnandos quàm saluandos incomparabili multitudine vt reiectorum multitudine ostenderetur quàm nulli momenti est apud Deum iustū quantalibet numerositas iustissimè damnatorum atque vt hinc quoque intelligant qui ex ipsâ damnatione redimuntur hoc fuisse massae illi vniuersae debitum quod tam magnae eius parti redditum cernerent God ordeined more to condemnation then to saluation without all cōparison first that it might appeare by the maier part of them which are damned how little God which is so iust regardeth the destruction of whole multitudes of sinners which are most iustly punished Secondly they which are redeemed from that damnation may by their owne redemption confesse when they see the maior part damned that that damnation was due to the whole lumpe which was adiudged to the greater part And last of all if he thinke it an hard speech in Caluin to say that God inciteth men to sin that so he might take occasion to punish them let Saint Paul answer it out of whom Caluin did alledge it where he saith God hardened and God stirred vp Pharaoh for this purpose that he might shew his power in him and that his name might be declared through all the earth To conclude whereas he obiecteth 1. Tim. 2. It is the will of God that all men should be saued And Ose 13. Perditio tua ex te salus ex me Israël that thou art damned it proceedeth from thy selfe that thou art saued it is to be ascribed to me ô Israël And therefore inferreth that the cause of predestination is in our selues not in God I answer first to Saint Paul It is his will that all should be saued that is his reuealed but not his secret will and to Hose our destruction is of our selues and yet it is of God that men are predestinated to destruction for as much as there are two causes of damnation one principall which is his will and that is outward and not in men the other subordinate which commeth betweene the decree and the execution of the decree which is damnation and that is sinne matter worthy enough of damnation and that is inherent in man And thus you see the saying of the Apostle verified of this Iesuite Volentes esse Doctores legis non intelligunt quid loquuntur neque de quibus affirmant They would bee Doctors of the law and yet vnderstand not what they speake neither whereof they affirme CHAP. 4. Of inuocation of Saints THe Church of Rome hath bene for many yeares past charged with the crime of idolatry for yeelding that worship to dead mens soules which is due onely to God Being not able to stand any longer vpon the iustification of themselues the matter appearing so fowle they flye frō their first holds and deuise new defences to auoide that grieuous imputation and yet still to retaine their ancient superstition Therefore concerning inuocation of Saints they deliuer this doctrine Non licet à sanctis aliquid petere vt nobis tanquam auctores aliquid concedāt sed vt corū precibus à Deo nobis beneficia concedantur It is not lawfull to pray vnto Saints as authors and giuers of any good thing which they should bestow vpon vs but onely as helpers and mediators vnto God in our behalfe that by their praiers for vs we may more easily obtaine at the hands of God such things as we shall aske Being charged that their practise is contrary to this doctrine that in the practise of their religion throughout their Churches they pray still in as grosse maner as before they did howsoeuer in their Schoole-diuinity they dare not maintaine it to cleare themselues they say Si quis dicat sancte Petre miserere mei quantum ad verba sic licet dicere sed sensus intelligendus est Miserere mei orando pro me da mihi aditum coeli id est precibus impetra It is lawfull to pray in these termes S. Peter haue mercy vpon me open to me the gate of heauen but that praier is not to be vnderstood as it is conceiued in those expresse words but in another sense which is this Pray for me that I may obtaine mercy by thy praiers obtaine for me that the gate of heauen may be opened vnto me To which I reply that the common people among them are no Schoole-men and therefore this euasion doth not make their prayer to bee lesse idolatrous then it was before This is but to hold the people still in darknesse and to rob God of his honour by the fallacy of equiuocation But let vs examine the grounds of this defence They alledge the words of the Apostle I magnifie my office to try if by any meanes I might prouoke them of my flesh to follow them and might saue some of them And in another place I am made all things to all men that I might by all meanes saue some To these words I answer they are sufficient to proue that while Saint Peter liued God stirred him vp as an instrument of his glory to bring men to the kingdome of heauen and to saue their soules but not after he was departed out of this life So Timothy taking heed to learning and continuing therin might both saue himselfe and them which heard him when he liued but not after his death For who knoweth not that verbum Dei est officio seruatrix humani generis the word of God hath a sauing power and that the ministery of the Gospell is the ordinary meane to saue mens soules But what is this to Saints departed whose ministery ceaseth or to proue the lawfulnesse of prayer to the dead which do not heare vs S. Paul spake of sauing men in his life time not after his death by his preaching to them
points of doctrine the greatest Papists in the world agree with vs. Perswas page 11. These are my words I deny them not Moreouer I did instance in these fundamentall points wherein they consent with vs and thereupon I inferred that they did rashly condemne vs for heretickes what then followeth will he therefore inferre that either holding the fundamentall points therefore their superstitions and errours may safely be maintained or that therefore they may be iustly excused for not communicating with vs as if their consenting with vs in fundamentall points should be a cause why they should the rather abhorre our Church religion It is a sufficient preiudice to the cause of their religion that they dispute in such loose manner Againe he saith So Doctor Doue in his whole Treatise neuer chargeth the Church of Rome either with schisme or heresie but laboureth to excuse themselues offering that we shall communicate with them without any change of opinion and yet hee setteth downs this for an infallible position THIS PROPOSITION IS VNDOVBTEDLY TRVE NO HERETIKE OR SCHISMATIKE IS TO BE COMMVNICATED WITHAL Perswas pag. 5. In that I haue not charged them with schisme or heresie I haue shewed that we are more charitable to them then they are to vs which do charge vs with both In that hee saith I onely laboured to excuse our selues as if I had proued nothing to cleare vs from that iniust aspertion I referre him to the place it selfe where I haue made due proofe that we are free from both heresie and schisme by such sound reasons as this Author cannot answer But whereas he saith it is offered on my part that they shall at their pleasure communicate with vs without change of opinion he burdeneth me with an vntruth by himselfe diuised and not to bee quoted out of any of my bookes In so writing he may fill vp a volume but he shall neuer strengthen his owne cause of weaken ours Moreouer saith he he giueth vs security that by no possibility according to the former reason of generall Councels the Romane Church can be iudged hereticall His words bee these pag. 14. No Church can be condemned and iudged hereticall by any priuate censure but it must be publicke by a generall Councell as he there expoundeth himselfe and is granted before But what doth he cōclude out of this That because the Church of Rome is not condemned by a generall Councell to bee hereticall it must needs be therefore orthodoxall This is such a consequent as neither Protestants nor any other of sound iudgement will grant Fifthly he chargeth me thus Touching Sacraments he alledgeth pag. 27. 28. that according to our definition of a Sacrament there are as many as we teach and this shall not breede any iarre betweene vs that therefore we should refuse to communicate together And transubstantiation it selfe shall be no barre but if we will receiue at their hands they will not examine how we expound these words Hoc est corpus meum This is my body pag. 29. And of discipline he writeth In that Councell of Trent they set forth such wholsome Canons concerning discipline as were fit for a reformed Church I deny not these words but I deny that they make any thing for the defence of Recusancy Concerning the word Sacrament as it is a name diuised by man but not found in the Scriptures so it is not any matter of saluation to vary about the number of Sacraments especially among them with whom it is not agreed what a Sacrament is For where words are not vnderstood ad idem secundem idem c. nothing hindereth but contrary or contradictory propositions may be both true as to say There are seuen and there are not seuen Sacraments For so concerning the number of Sacraments they and we differ in words when we may easily agree in substance The word Sacrament is strictly taken with vs and so according to M. Caluin his definition it is an outward signe ordeined of God to be cōtinued in his Church as a part of his diuine Seruice offering to all men but sealing onely to the faithfull his inward grace for the strengthening of their saith the applying of Christ his death vnto them And so there can be but two according to the confession of Saint Augustine A resurrectione Domini quaedam pauca signapro multis eademque factu facillima intellectu augustissinta obseruatione castissima ipse Dominus Apostolica tradidit disciplina baptismum coenam Domini Since the Lord his resurrection our Sauiour his selfe and from him his Apostles haue commended to vs for outward signes or seales a very few in steed of many and those for performance most easie for signification most ample for obseruation most pure and holy and they are Baptisme and the Lords Supper But this word Sacrament is more largely taken in the Church of Rome for a signe in generall although it do not apply vnto vs and represent before our eyes the death of Iesus Christ And it is defined to be Signum rei sacra an outward signe of any holy thing And according to that definition there may be not only 7. but also 70. Sacraments Of transubstantion hauing first proued that the bread and the wine in the Eucharist cannot be transubstantiated and yet not denying them to be the body and bloud of our Sauiour because he hath said they are so I said in that we both agree onely the difference betweene vs is how the words This is my body are to be vnderstood whether really or sacramentally properly or mystically And that it should be no barre or scruple to their consciences in what sense we vnderstand it so as we deliuer it to them according to the institution of our Sauiour Christ and that if they will in all other things submit themselues to the lawes of our Church we will not presse them so farre in examining them how they expound the words but rather yeeld so much to their weaknesse in this one poynt vntill God shall reueale a further measure of the knowledge of his truth vnto them So these words of mine import nothing in fauour of transubstantiation Thirdly the Councell of Trent hath set downe wholsome Canons cōcerning discipline as in part the 3. Lataran Coūcell did long before as namely for preaching and learned ministers c. And the reformed Churches of England Scotland Germany Netherland Geneua haue receiued many of those Canons although they come from the Pope as deeming them fit for a reformed Church But these my words make nothing for the allowance of that Councell it selfe or of the points of doctrine there concluded neither yet of their Recusancy among whom for the most part these Canons of discipline are not receiued Sixthly Concerning the Popes supremacy of Europe there can be no question For generally Protestants agree with Field Doue Ormerod that the regiment of the West Churches among which this nation is one belonged to the Pope of