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A79438 A theological dialogue: containing the defence and justification of Dr. John Owen from the forty two errors charged upon him by Mr. Richard Baxter in a certain manuscript about communion in lyturgical worship. Chauncy, Isaac, 1632-1712. 1684 (1684) Wing C3757aA; ESTC R230946 46,146 50

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be done c. with a thousand things more and these upon what Penalties the Law-maker pleases Spiritual or Pecuniary or Corporal Mulcts would not here come in such a Monster under the name of Secondary Worship that would fright away all Gods true Worshippers from Communion with it R. B. It was forbidden things which in Isa 29.13 Matth. 14 are reproved as being Precepts of Men or things feigned to be necessary acts of Obedience to God which are not so J. O. VVe say they were forbidden Precepts of men are humane Laws in Divine things their Traditions and Inventions which they make necessary by their Laws and enforcing of them and then they are feigned so by men It 's not to be found that all the Pharisees Superstitions were particularly mentioned and named in the Prohibitions in the old Testament nor a quarter of them by Christ in the New yet condemned by him as the Precepts of men i. ● They had nothing but humane Sanction they were forbid by Christs general Laws being excluded and a charge that no Laws of Divine VVorship should be added as primary or Secundary to his His Disciples were not to go beyond his Commission to teach any thing but what he had commanded or should M●tth 28 20. To go beyond a Commission is to break and forfeit it in assuming that power that was never given in it by mens Law much more by Gods though the Particulars wherein the Forfeiture of Charter or Commission lies were not particularly mentioned when the Commission or Charter was drawn it 's enough that there is nothing therein contained to authorize such practices Manuscript But it s replied There is nothing accidental in the Worship of God every thing that belongs to it is part of it Some things are of more weight Vse and Importance than others Mat. 23.27 but all things duely belonging to it are parts of it or of its subsistence outward circumstances and occasional no accidental parts of Worship R. B. As to your Reply it 's the strangest that ever I read from so learned a man and is a great mistake Error XV. What is there in the World that is a Subject without Accidentals Gods Worship hath a multitude of Accidents as the Hour the Place the Pulpit Tables the Cups of Silver the Linnen and other Ornaments the Books Printed the Metre the Tunes Chapters Verses the Words of Translation the Building Gestures Vestures Treasures J. O. The prescribing these and their fellow natural circumstances by particular limiting Laws may make a Book as big as that of the Martyrs Are they not pretty things to be called part of Gods instituted Worship They are natural accidents of Worship but not limit d or instituted Is it not pretty to say the hour and place is part of the Worship the Pulpit of Preaching the Silver Cups and Cloth a part of the Sa●ram nt But Bread and Wine is part though of less natural value in its self then the Plate it 's put in There is no instituted limitations of the use of these said particulars in Worship therefore not so much as proper adjuncts or integral parts which all Christs Ordinances are though of more or less use yet of equal Authority the least Pin in the Tabernacle with the greatest Beam all must be done by the Pattern as God commanded Moses R. B. You add another Mistake Error XVI That every thing belonging to it is a part of it J. O We say that every thing duely belonging to Divine Instituted Worship is a part of ●t because it cannot duely belong to it as a proper Adjunct but by Divine Institution You run upon a great mistake to talk so much of Physical Common Adjuncts that never did participate of the nature of the Subject all things duely belonging to a man as such is part of him all proper adjuncts are so all integral parts are so but Cloth Money a House c. are not so therefore you did not deal fairly in leaving out duely R. B. You say Outward Circumstances are natural and Occasional no accidental parts of Worship Answer Just now all accidents were parts or else accidents belong not to it and now it hath no accidental parts a mans name Relation Trade Cloathing Age House c. belong to him and no parts of him J. O. We contradict not our selves in the least we say there is no accidental part in the Worship of God no one part that can't be called Gods Worship there 's no common adjuncts belonging to it that can be called Instituted Worship or a part of it as Silver Cups in the Sacraments Tables c. these I say are natural occasional no parts though accidents they do not duely belong as integral parts therefore it hath no accidental parts of its subsistence the Accidents are common and separable as those of a man that you instance in and say are no parts so in a manner you have granted all Most of the things instanced in by you are not only no proper adjuncts of Instituted Worship but none of Worship in general for they are common to other things Manuscript Prayers and Praises absolutely considered are not an Institution of Christ they are a part of natural Worship common to all Mankind his Institution respects only the internal form of them and the manner of their performance But this is that which the Liturgy takes on it self namely to supply and determine the matter to prescribe the manner and to limit all the concerns of them to modes and forms of its own which is to take the work of Christ out of his hand R. B. Your second Answer is no better 1. If by Absolutely you mean not generally but as opposite to conditional it hath no sence here that I can find but if it be in genere that you mean they are no part of Worship at all natural nor instituted there is praying which is cursing and striving against God and goodness and praying to Idols J. O. Strange Logick and Divinity 1. You need not have put your first supposal of our meaning for we mean in genere that Religious Prayers and Praises generally considered meerly as such not specificated by any limitation are not an Institution of Christ You say they are no part of any Worship at all natural nor instituted it s as much sense as if you should say When I say the Leg absolutely considered i. e. ●ot relatively as it stands to the whole but in respect of the next Genus is no part of a man say you as such it 's no part of an Animal for it s neither part of Homo nor Brutum Now is this good reasoning Negatur for it must be part of one because absolutely i. e. generically considered i. e. as part of an Animal a Leg being a proper adjunct to an Animal but cann't be found but in Homo or Brutum you say Yes it may be the Leg of a joynt-stool fetching in a remote Genus falaciously And
mark the proof for there is praying that is cursing c. therefore Praises and Prayers absolutely considered are no part of Worship at all I suppose your meaning is That Prayers are either such as are Religious Worship or such as are not as a Request or Petition to Man and Praises or Encomiums of Men and so in respect of this remote Genus they are no Worship at all but by your favour it follows not for though some are not Religious Worship yet others are and all are Worship of one kind or another either Religious or Civil Again It 's plain enough that we speak of Religious Worship in genere and then will you say that Religious Prayers and Praises absolutely considered are no part of Worship at all neither natural nor Instituted If so your proof will be this for there is praying which is no Religious Praying viz. Cursing c. And so we see how in your Arguments you go about to delude and confound mens understandings with little School-Sophisms that becomes not the solidity of a Grave Writer as leaping from one genus to another fallacia generis putting a remote genus for a next and a next for a remote and by your leave you are out in your Divinity too for is not an Imprecation a Prayer to some God and therefore Worship and Praying to Idols Religious Worship will you say These are no Worship at all You might have left out striving against God and Goodness that is a general Character of Sin and obstinate Sinners but I cann't see how it comes in under the Genus of Prayer you might as well put in fighting a Battel or running a Race or wearing Cloaths or killing a man and a hundred such heterogeneous things and called them praying But when men out of prejudice to any truth run into absurdities God leaves them to leave their own Reason and Understanding R. B. But I suppose you mean de specie praying to God for good things needful J. O. You love to play with Genus and Species such Prayer is Species in respect of Prayer for the Genus but it 's a Sub-alternum Genus in respect of the Species under it such as Natural or Instituted Prayers R. B. And it is another mistake That this Prayer is not of Christs Institution because it is a part of Natural Worship All is of Christs Institution which is a part of his commanding Law The Law of Nature is now Christs Law Error XVII J. O. And was it not alwayes as much as now As all things were made by him and as he lightneth every man that comes into the world by the Law of Nature which Law was never abolished as to its use in the world for Christs Ends but meerly as such it was ever since the fall a weak and imperfect Law as to the Salvation of the world Rom. 8.3 It was weak through the flesh and life could not come by it Gal. 2.31 Likewise at first by reason of the darkness that came in by sin there wanted a further and more express manifestation of it which was by Revelation and in that respect was a revealed Law at Mount Sinai but thereby became a more killing Letter Two sorts of people thereupon were in the world those that lay meerly under the light of Nature and they that had the written Law Rom. 2.12 Now miserable had the condition of the world been if Christ had not manifested himself in another way then meerly by the Law of Nature He reveals himself as the M●diator of the New Covenant the Seed of the Woman the great High Priest and Sacrifice yea a Redeemer of them that were under the Law and in the Glory and Power of this Undertaking he appears King of Saints first he reveals a Worship made up mostly of Types and Figures for the strengthning of the Faith of his People in the Promises of his appearing in the flesh when the fullness of time was come wherein also he fits and adapts the Law of Nature to his honour and the use of his people in subserviency to the promise and this was the first Model of Instituted Worship that Christ set up in the World and now is become Head of all things to his Church But his peculiar Regiment was exercised there in his Mediatory Office Afterwards when he had appeared in the flesh finished his Ministry and was offered up the old model of Worship the Law of Commandments contained in Ordinances was abolished and a new Model of Instituted Worship set up for Conversion of Sinners and Edification of his Church to continue to the End of the World and these two Models Divine have thought good to call Instituted and Revealed Worship as distinct from Natural Now if you can find out a better term of Distinction pray do but the thing must be the same Now let the world judge whether this be not perverse disputing to endeavour to render such a known and approved Distinction absurd and ridiculous Moreover see more of this Spirit you charge it for a mistake in saying This Prayer is not of Christs Institution Is it said this Prayer We say Prayer in general is not Instituted Worship but Natural but this or that Prayer is of Christs Institution which is appointed to be used by the Church or his people the Prayer to be prayed by the Church when the Ark and Camp moved and that when it rested was Instituted by Christ Prayer upon particular occasions in the Gospel-Church are appointed as at the blessing and Consecration of the Elements in the Supper though not prescribed and limited as some men would have them but where Christ hath prescribed and limited we chearfully obey him R. B. It is another mistake That Christs Institution respecteth only the internal form and manner of performance the interal form is the inward desire offered mentally to God and is not this natural if Prayer be Sure the form is the thing J. O. It is so or should be so if men were able to do it since the Fall but the power of Nature was lost and was supplied by Grace take it as you will we allow it but you speak of one thing and we of another you speak of of the internal qualification of the Worshipper the Performer of the Institution we speak of the internal form of the Institution which is the perfection and rectitude thereof wholly according to God's mind and will as to the several particulars that it doth concern The form is not the thing but the form and matter R. B. And that the manner of Performance is sinful which is not of Christ's institution J. O. These are not our words but that his Institution respects the manner of our performance and that is the external due manner and the internal the internal is the due Gospel manner of offering our desires mentally to God which is not natural but revealed to pray in the Spirit with Faith in and through Christ Heathens may offer up
l●wful modes things lawfully used are to be indifferently used in the Worship of God what he thinks is necessary to be made a binding Law he hath made so or else he is deficient in his house R. B. Your Conclusion is a Mistake Error 33. J. O. That it must needs be if the premises were so full of Errors but we have vindicated them so the Conclusion is true Manuscript Argument 4. That which gives Testimony against the Faithfulness of Christ in his house as a Son and Lord of it above that of a Servant is not to be complyed withal let all the Disciples judge Vnto the Faithfulness of Christ doth belong to appoint and command all things whatsoever in the Church that belongs to the Worship of God as is Evident from the Comparison with Moses herein and his Preference above him Heb. 3.3 4 5 6. But that Institution and Prescription of all things in Religious Worship of things never Instituted nor prescribed by Christ in form and modes of them ariseth from a Supposition of a defect in the Wisdom Care and Faithfulness of Christ Whence alone a Necessity can arise of Prescribing that in Divine Worship that he hath not Prescribed R. B. 1st To your Major I answer 1. To give Testimony Signifyeth either by remote unseen Consequence to cross Christs Faithfulness and so do many of your Mistakes 2. Or it signifieth a plain Denyal of Christs Faithfulness no Christian complyeth with this J. O. By a remote unseen Consequence you have answered the Major for no man can see any Answer in it worth a Button To give Testimony against the Faithfulness of Christ is by making or Complying with Laws necessary for the Churches Esse or bene esse which he hath not made and it charges him for not doing what he ought to do as the Lord of his house and that which a man bears Testimony to by open Profession in Words or Practice is not to cross Christs Faithfulness by a remote unseen Consequence men do not use to bear Testimonies in the dark Our meanig is mens plain Denyal in Practice and it may be an open mouth Vindication of themselves and Condemnation of others added as you do This we roundly affirm to be a Testimony born against the Faithfulness of Christ and in this meaning you grant our Major R B. To your Minor I answer In your Supposition it is not true That it belongeth to Christs Faithfulness to appoint and command all things whatever in the Church which belongs to the Worship of God Else he were unfaithful in bidding them appoint many things belonging to his Worship Error 34. J. O. Here is another bold Attempt against Christ if it were not contradicted in the same breath for if he hath bid them appoint and make Laws then he did it in faithfulness and it belongs still to his faithfulness to give them a faithful Commission so as might not turn to the certain manifest wrong and injury of his Church as the exerting such a power hath done but tell us the Vbi of those Laws and biddings to men in the present sence and the Controversy is at an end R. B. It is another Error That the prescription of forms and modes of things in Worship not commanded by Christ can arise from nothing but a Supposition of a defect in the Wisdom Care and Faithfulness of Christ J. O. I prove it either it 's so or all that is done in that kind is superfluous For if there were Laws enough ad esse bene esse Ecclesiae it 's folly and madness to make more that which you instance in forms of Catechising Confessions or Forms of Prayer for Children c. they are nothing to the purpose they may be of use in their place for some means of instruction to the Ignorant as persons and cases require But we speak of forms and Systems of Worship imposed and bound on upon our shoulders at mans pleasure this we assert must be upon a Supposal of the defect of Christs Law or be done in manifest opposition to it to thrust it out or be a professed folly to make Laws were we declare there is no need of them Your Refutation in the three particulars are idle or false not worth our pains to take notice of Manuscript Argument 5. That which is a means humanely Invented for the attaining of an End in Divine Worship which Christ hath Ordained a means for unto the Exclusion of the means so appointed by Christ is false Worship and not to be complyed withal The end intended is the Edification of the Church in the Administration of all its holy Ordinances This the Service Book is Ordained and appointed by men for or it hath no end or use at all But the Lord Christ hath appointed other means for the attaining this End as is Expresly declared He hath given gifts unto men for the work of the Min stry for the edifying of the Body Ephes 4.7 8 11 12. that is in all Gospel Administrations but this means Ordained by Christ namely the Exercise of Spiritual Gifts in Gospel Administrations unto the Edification of the Church is Excluded yea expresly prohibited in the prescription of this Liturgical Worship R. B. To the major of your fifth Argument I answer as to the former no man is to comply by approbation with any thing that excludeth any of Gods means E. gr not with you that exclude the great duty of Catholick Communion J. O. Then you grant the maior but insinuate a distinction or keep a hole rather to creep out at There is say you compliance by Approbation and compliance without and that is by Compulsion When men comply with a Worship they submit to the Rule as the mind and will of God not as to a faulty and Erroneous Rule You are still upon your old shift a short turn ●nd a leap putting the Errors of Performances inst●ad of the Errors of the Rule It 's a false accusation to say that I did ever exclude Catholick Communion But if I should please men I should not be the Servant of Jesus Christ but it is a very small thing with me that I should be judged of you or of mans judgment 1 Cor. 4.3 He that judgeth me is the Lord verse 4. Only this I shall say I will not go to the Church of Rome for Catholick Communion nor betray the Lord of the Vineyard that I may eat of the fruit thereof R. B. It is another mistake that the exercise of Spiritual Gifts is expresly forbidden except you meant just at the use of the Liturgy extemporate utterance is forbidden but it is not so in the Pulpit Error 36 J. O. We mean that there is an actual Exclusion of the Exercise of Spiritual Gifts in the whole Lyturgical Worship both in praying or any thing else it 's all prescribed Manuscript The pretence of mens liberty to use their Gifts in Prayer before Sermon and in Preaching is ridiculous they are excluded