wher of the high Priest was a figure Neither was the citie of refuge appointed onelie for the triall of the slaughter whether it were willinglie or vnwillinglie committed as you saie but also for a kinde of punishment and detestation of manslaughter so that if the sleaer were found out of the City before the death of the high Priest the auenger of blood might kill him and not be charged with his blood Where you refuse the mysterie of Christes death in the death of the high Priest and flie to the fantasies of the Iewes you declare that you care not what you bring so you maie obtaine your purpose But Chri stian diuines as Cyrillus Maximus and others of the death of the high priest in that place gather deliuerance by the death of Christ. Saint Ambrose also is cleere that the high Priest in this place signifieth Iesus Christ and confuteth the politike reasons by you rehearsed out of R. Mose and R. Leui for that in causis paribus there was impar euentus In equal causes vnequall end For the high Priest might die saith he the next daie after the manslaier hath taken his refuge Againe he addeth that Christ is exors omnium voluntariorum accidentium delictorum void of all offences voluntarie and chaunceable by which he acknowledgeth vnwilling manslaughter to be an offence Saint Ierome also Dialog aduers. Pel. lib. 1. is plaine in that wholl case and sinne of ignorance and that he which is fled to the citie must tarie vntill the high Priest die that is vntill he be redeemed by the blood of our Sauiour Beda also vpon this place by his allegorie sheweth how he thought of that kinde of sinne Also Theodoretus in lib. Num. quaest 51. declareth both the mysterie of the high Priests death and sheweth that such vnwilling manslaughter is sinne Cur ad obitum Pontificis praescribet eireditum qui nolens interfecit Qnia 〈◊〉 Pontificis secundùm ordinem Melchisedech erat humani peccati solutio Whte vntill the death of the high Priest doth he prescribereturne vnto him which hath slaine a man vnwillinglie Because the death of the high Priest after the order of Melchisedech was the loosing of the sinne of man and so forth to the same effect And if all the politike reasons be graunted of the mans tarying vntill the high Priest die yet the mysterie of Christes death is not thereby taken away whoos 's blood clenseth vs from all sinne voluntarie or vnuoluntarie The last fault of the definition is that the Iesuites acknowledge not the sinne of ignorance you answer they do of that ignorance whereof a man him-selfe is the cause but not of that ignorance which the schoolemen call inuincible which is not in the doers power to auoid nor he fell into it by his owne defaulte as in the example of the Queenes subiect being in his Princes affaires in India and commaunded by proclamation in Westminster to appeare there at a certaine daie in which cause his absence is excused by inuincible ignorance This case graunted betweene the Prince and his subiect prooueth not that ignorance excuseth before God because there is not the like reason seeing no such ignorance whereby a man should transgresse the law of God is in man but by voluntarie and witting transgression of the first man and his owne negligence which maketh his fact sinfull because he is cause of his ignorance by negligence or in the sinne of Adam in whome you confesse that all men sinned At least wise if originall sinne be voluntarie by the sinne of Adam so also is the transgression of gods law in these cases of inuincible ignorance wittinglie committed by the same sinne of Adam Augustine whome you quote for your purpose speaketh of naturallignorance and infirmitie which is in insants not of that whereby men fall into error and so transgresse Gods law For that he calleth penall ignorance and difficultie which is iustlie laid vpon them that neglected to seeke knowledge and is sinfull therefore cannot excúse sinne Chrisostome whome you quote likewise is manifestly against you his wordes are these Quòdsi ea ignoraueris quae scriri non possunt praeter culpam eris siverò quae scitu possibilia sunt facilia extremas poenas merito dabis If thou be ignorant of those thinges which are not possible to beknowne thoushalt be blamles but if they be possible and easie to be knowne thou shalt worthelie suffer extreame punishment As in the cases of Abimelech with Abrahams wife and Iacob with Lea who if they had made diligent inquirie needed not to haue beene deceiued through ignorance Neither doth God excuse Abimelech from sinne altogether as you saie albeit he pardoned his ignorance and kept him from the fact of adulterie acknowledged his minde to haue beene free from the purpose of Adulterie For the punishmeut laid vpon him argueth what he deserued by his ouer hastie purpose of mariage with Sara and Abimelech confesseth that Abraham had brought vpon him and his Kingdom a great sinne Also when God saith to him I haue kept thee thatthou shouldest not sinne against me he declareth plainlie that if Abimelech had lien with Sara vpon that ignorance he had sinned against God But of Iacobslying with Lea in steade of Rachell you mooue a greater contention and alledge Saint Augustine in his defense But whosoeuer gaue you your notes through your negligence in not reading the places your selfe made you erre through ignorance For S. Augustine doth notin all those Chapters once touch the question whether Iacob sinned in that he did not regarde what woman was laid in his bedde by which negligence as Master Charke saith he might haue committed most horribleincest with his mother aunt or daughter Onelie he defendeth his Polygamie by the custome of that time and the contention of his wiues for their lodgeing with him and last of all allegorizeth vpon the wholl storie drawing the error of Iacob and all the rest to a mysterie Nor yet de ciuit dei lib. 16. c. 38. doth he defend his negligence rehearsing onelie how he came to haue foure wiues when he went into Mesopotamia for one onelie adding that because he had lyen with Lea vnwittinglie he did not put her awaie lest he might be thought to haue mocked her Neither hath Iustinus Martyr lib. de verit Christ. rel anie defense of Iacobs innocencie or excuse of his negligence in this fact but sheweth onelie what mysterie maie be gathered of his marriages as Saint Augustine doth Finallie Theodores your last auncient witnes agreeing with the rest saith that Iacob betrothed onelie Rachell and beside the purpose of his will had to doe with Lea. But immediatelie assoone as he perceiued the deceit he tooke it heauilie and complained to his father in law what word of defense or excuse of his fact committed through ignorance negligence haue you in this saying yet you conclude after your vaunting mannner And what one
flatlie against you for he that doth not that which god commaundeth sinneth although in the meane time he doe some other thing that is good or not euill yea although he sleepe and doe nothing Where Master Charke doth distinguish the creatures and ordinances of God which are good from the corruption and preuarication that is in them which is euill you picke a fond quarrell to him and make him to saie that deuills and euill men doe not repugne against the law of God and that they doe not sinne properlie Which is false for he saith no such thing but that euill men as they are the creatures of God are not against the law but the euill in men and so of the rest yet euil men doe sinne properlie and repugne against the law of God by the euill that is in them as in your owne example the Phisitian cureth his patient not as he is a man but as he is a Phisitian and by knowledge of Phisicke which is in him And as for the repugnance of contrarietie whereof the question is in the definition of sin it is not in the creature of god but the corruption of that good crearure A blacke horsse is not contrarie to the colour of white but the colour of blacke so not an euil man but sin of an euil man is contrary to the iustice of Gods law So a Phitisian driueth away an ague yet aPhisitian is not contrary to an ague but thevertue of the medicine which he ministreth When euerie childe may vnderstand your cauilling it is no meruaile though you charge M. Chark with such absurditie and ignorance yea with heresie and that out of Augustine Tom. 8. fol. 665. not telling vs of what edition you speake so that it were harde to finde if it were worth the search that which you talke of but you are to be pardoned for your note was vnperfect did not expresse in what homelie vpon what Psalme The second fault of the Iesuites definition is that they call it an humane or reasonable action Master Charke would rather saie a beastly or vnreasonable action of a man indued with reason Here you take on and aske whether Master Charke be so vnlearned in all foundation of Philosophie And Aristotle and Saint Augustine are called to witnes that sin proceedeth from the minde indued with reason and what other thing I beseech you doth Master Charke saie his wordes are plaine as I haue set them downe and the same that you cite out of Augustine Now if you will defend that sinne is an action agreeable to right reason because it proceedeth frō a reasonable man he giueth you a weapon to play with al against your next encounter otherwise he hath better reformed the wordes of your definition thé you haue either wit or grace to vnderstand It hath a better colour that you obiect of the morall workes of iustice temperance other vertues in the gentils which M. Chark wil acknowledge to be sin and yet they seeme to be agreeable to right reason so they are in part so far forth as they be directed by that light which is left in men proceeding fró the eternal word of god but in so much as that light shineth in darkenes and the darkenes comprehendeth it not no acceptable worke to God can be brought forth therebie Yea for so much as all the morall workes of the gentiles respected not the right ende of obedience and glorie of God whome they knew not their wholl actions were therebie vitiated and corrupted so that they may iustlie be called sinne Euen as praier is turned into sin and the sacrifice of the vngodlie is abhomination to the Lord. And M. Charke faith truelie whatsoeuer is not of faith is sin be it reasonable as you speake or against reason And in deede against right reason it is that the gentiles in their morall workes sought not to obey God according to his lawe and therefore euen their best workes of iustice and temperance were sinne But this is so iumpe you saie that an horse might be a sinner for that his actions proceed not of faith In deed if Saint Paul had spoken of the actions of brute beastes as your Saint Francis witnes your Legend did preach to brute beastes you had iumped neere the matter but when none but an asse would vnderstand Saint Paul to speake of any other actions then such as proceede from men you iumpe as neere as Germans lippes that were nine mile a sunder But you will answere to Saint Paul with S. Ambrose that he meaneth whoesoeuer doth a thing against that which faith prescribeth that is against a mans own conscience and iudgement he sinneth The words of S. Ambrose are these Rectè peccatum appellat quod aliter fit quà m probatum est He doth rightlie call that sinne which is done otherwise then is allowed Now this allowance or approbation is not referred to euerie mans corrupt conscience or ignorant iudgement as you expound it but is measured by faith which is a certaine knowledge and perswasion grounded vpon the worde of God as Saint Paul sheweth in the 14. verse of the 14. Chap. I know am perswaded by our Lord Iesus that nothing is vncleane of it selfe which faith when the Gentiles had not in their workes their works were sinne And therfore you abuse S. Ambrose by your glose to restreine the prescription of faith onelie to that which a man doth against his conscience and iudgement But Saint Augustine you say prooueth at large against Master Charke that the morall good workes of infidels were not sinne lib. de spiritu litera cap. 26. 27. 28. In truth S. Augustine though he call such workes iustice liberalitie wrought by infidels as we doe commonlie good workes yet his iudgement is none other then I haue before expressed and that he declareth in the latter ende of the 27. Chapter for in the 26. he hath nothing sounding that wase Speaking of infidels Quaedam tamen fact a vel legimus vel nouimus vel audimus quae secundùm iusticiae regulam non solùm vituper are non possumus verumetiam meritò recteque laudamus quanquam si discutiatur quo fine fiant vix iuueniuntur quae insticiae debitam laudem defensionemue mereantur Yet some deedes we either reade or know or heare of which according to the rule of righteousnes we cannot not only dispraise but also we do worthily rightly praise them although if it be discussed with what end they are done they are scarslie found which deserue the praise or defense dew to righteousnes But most cleerelie his iudgement is for Master Charke against you sir defender as well for the allegation of the text Rom. 14. where you scornfullie iumped in your sinfull horse as for the matter in question that the morall workes of Gentiles are sin before God Contra Iulianum Pelagianum lib. 4. cap. 3. towarde the ende in these wordes Si Gentilis inquis nudum
worde can Master Chark now peepe against all this O you papists that with sinceritie of Religion haue not caste of all humane honestie doe you not blush at the impudent ignorance of this your defender And yet he is not ashamed to gather Master Charks absurd positions not one according to his meaning and but one onelie agreeable to his wordes First that sinne is no action where he holdeth that all sinne as the sinne of omission is no action Secondlie that no euill men doe sinne but the euill in men which he saith not but that man as he is the creature of God is not against the lawe but the euill in man Thirdlie that sinne is not voluntarie which he saieth not generally but of some sin speakeing properlie Forthlie that sinne is no humane or reasonable action which he saieth rather to be a beastlie and vnreasonable action of a man endued with reason Fiftlie that it requireth neither will nor knowledge in the doer where he saith that the transgression of Gods law is sin in some case and sort which is without the will and knowledge of the doer Last of all that fooles and madde men may as properlie commit sinne as others but this he saith not at al but that the infirmites of follie and madnes shal not excuse sin and that if a madde man or a foole kil a man in the Censurcrs iudgement it is properly no sinne Whereof you may inferr that it is sinne properlie but not that it is as properlie sinne as in others But if madde men and fooles coulde not commit sinne properlie whie are they punished for sinne To conclude where you saie that Master Charke reiecteth Saint Augustine about the definition of sinne it is false For these are his wordes Howsoeuer you alledge Austen to approoue your definition it is no waie so large as sinne and iherefore a most vnlearned definition These words of his declare that he reiecteth not Augustine in this matter but your false and fraudulent allegation of him which is manifestly shewed before by Augustines sound iudgement in his retractions The eight section Of sinne MAster Chark hauing said out of the definition of Saint Iohn which also Saint Ambrose doth vse as I haue shewed before that all transgression of the lawe is sinne was charged by the Censurer with transposition because the Apostles wordes lie thus in the text Sinne is transgression of the law Master Charke defendeth him-selfe alledging that these wordes sinne and the transgression of the law are as the definition and the thing defined which are mutuallie verified the one of the other The defender bringeth nothing to prooue that this is no definition but that which he hath saide in the section before which is ouerthrowne Onelie he quarrelleth that Master Charke said the Gospell is as generall as the power of God to saluation whereas Christ also is called the power of God to saluation As though the Gospell did not include Christ. For when it is said the Gospell is the power of God to saluation you must vnderstand the generall matter namelie the doctrine or the preaching That transposition of wordes is sometimes lawfull M. Charke sheweth by an example God is a spirite where the wordes lie in the text a spirite is God The defender wrangleth that it is not alwaies lawfull which shall be graunted vnto him without controuersie That in this question it is not lawful he hath nothing to prooue but a beggerlie demaund of that in question that transgression of Gods lawe is larger then sinne Where Master Chark alledgeth out of 1. Iohn 5. 17. that euerie iniquitie is sin he maketh no small adoe because the greeke word in that text is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which if they be not all one in sense let him enter an action against the vulgar interpreter which in both places translateth iniquitas Yea let him quarrell with Saint Augustine which vpon the place in question writeth thus Nemo enim dicat aliud est peccatum atque aliud iniquitas nemo dicat ego peccator homo sum sed iniquus non sum omnis qui facit peccatum iniquitatem facit Peccatum iniquitas est quid ergo faciemus de peccatis nostris iniquitatibus Let no man saie sin is one thing iniquitie is an other thing let no man say I am a sinful man but I am not vniust euery one that committeth sin doth commit iniquity for sin is iniquity what then shall we do with our sinnes and iniquities c You see here that S. Augustine accounteth sin iniquitie or vniustice to be all one So doth he in 1. Iohn Tr. 5. And where the Apostle vseth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is vnrighteuosnes what say you meaneth he generall iniustice or speciall If he meane generall as you must needes say for shame then it is as large as sinne and it is manifest that the Apostle vseth the worde Iustice as contrarie to sinne therefore iustice must needes be the same that sinne If you can make a diuersitie between general iniquity general iniustice you are wiser then the vulgar interpreter speciallie if he speake in this latter place of great sinnes onelie as you say whereas iniquitie in the former place may signifie such small transgression as is no sinne at all Verelie Oecumenius is against you and saith Simpliciter tanquam à genere peccati facit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnis iniquitas peccatum est hoc est siue sit ad mortem siue non He maketh a plaine diuision of sinne as it were from the generall and saith all inquitie is sinne that is whether it be vnto death or not And vpon 1. 〈◊〉 3. he saith Sciendum autem quòd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We must know that sin is a falling from that which is good 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 is an offence against the law and both of them hath this beginning namelie sinne the 〈◊〉 from that which is good iniquitie to doe against the law that 〈◊〉 And they agree the one with the other and are about the same thing For he which sinneth erreth from the marke which is according to nature and in nature is selfe For the scope or marke 〈◊〉 nature is to liue according to reason farre from vnreasonablenes Likewise he that doth 〈◊〉 offendeth about the lawe giuen in nature beeing affected intemperatelie Rectè ergo discipulus domini 〈◊〉 inidem 〈◊〉 Therefore the disciple of our Lorde hath rightlie vsed the one for the other Here iniquitie is as large as sinne Against this what haue you to saie Aristotell in praedicam qual For which I send you to Aristotell Eth. lib. 5. c. 1. But 〈◊〉 euery iniquitie is not sinne you haue Saint Augustine lib. 2. cont Iulian cap. 5. When you can set downe his wordes you shall receiue an answere in the meane time as you saie Master Charke reserued a sure carde for the ende I may
warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem 〈◊〉 Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
his seruantes yet he so terrifyed that we all ought to feare For which of vs is without sinne which when he had said to them by whome the sinner was offered to be punished that he which knew him-selfe to be without sinne should first cast a stone at her their crueltie fell downe by trembling of their conscience For then they slipping awaie out of that congregation left the poore wretch alone to him that is mercifull Let the pietie of Christians giue place to this sentence to which the impietie of the Iewes gaue place let the humilitie of them that are obedient giue place to that to which the pride of persecutors gaue place let the confessiō of the faithful yeld to that whereto yeelded the dissembling of the tempter What haue we here for this strange iurisdiction or for the Popes pardons in this example or in the example of Saint Augustine excommunicating or suspending of Bonifacius for violating the priuiledge of the Church in taking awaie a man worthie to die that fled thether for succour when he did not execute as you saie but restored him vnhurt to life as appearerh by his answere The pronnesse of Ecclesiasticall persons vnto mercie and pitie may be gathered by this example but no argument to prooue the Popes pardons to be good that I saie not it may be doubted whether such clemencie standeth with Gods iustice that commaundeth the murtherer to be drawen euen from his aultar to be executed And Augustine himselfe in his Epistle of intercession commendeth the punishing mercie and con demneth the pardoning crueltie beside that we muste liue according to laws and not according to examples ALLEN Againe Christ deliuered in the fift of Saint Iohn one that had beene feeble eight and thirtie yeares long for a punishment of his sinnes and that he might vnderstand that that sicknes came vnto him for correction of his former offences he said vnto him after in the temple Lo thou art made wholl looke thou sinne no more least a worse thing happen vnto thee Neither is it vnlike but the partie had his sinnes remitted long before Christ healed him of his corporall infirmity by the sacrifices of the law and by ordinarie meanes of that time through the faith in Christ Iesus Whereby you may perceiue that our high Bishop Christ hath giuen pardon to many not onelie of their sinnes and euer lasting damnation but also of the temporall paine and punishment either prescribed by the law or enioyned by Gods owne appointment Then we neede not wonder that the Churches officer holding by his right both the title to pardon and to punish should be by his example so prone to mercie which of the two is alwaies moste commended in spirituall regiment FVLKE Christ healed many that suffered punishment of bodelie diseases for their sinnes to shew that he was appointed of god to be the heauenly phisitian to heale the diseases of our soules by pardoning our sinnes But that the partie whereof you speake had his sinnes remitted long before Christ healed him of his corprall infirmitie by sacrifices of the law and ordinarie meanes of that time through the faith in Christ Iesus though you saie it is like yet it is verie vnlike For he had laien eight and thirtie yeares in the portch of Siloam waighting for the miraculous manner of healing that God shewed at certain times vppon them that first entred aster the water of the poole was mooued All which time it is not like that he could be partaker of the sacrifices or ordinarie meanes by which remission of sinnes thorough faith in Iesus Christ was testified to the participants of those meanes But rather as his owne wordes sound it is like he was onelie attentiue to the vsuall meane which God shewed to attein health of bodie thereby not caring for true repentance and conuersion to god yet it appeareth he had small taste of spirituall doctrine when he knew not of whome he receiued the benefit of health and so was vnthankesull vnto him for it But what is concluded out of this example that the officers of the Church in spirituall regiment ought to be prone to mercie Many examples prooue that more directlie but that the officers of the Church haue power to punish and pardon as Christ had this example prooueth not ALLEN Neuerthelesse we meane not that the priest hath alwaies such power as Christ had in remoouing of bodelie sickenes not onelie because they know not when it is the deserued paine for sinne as he did but also because as Saint Augustine saith Remissio in Ecclesia magis fit propter futurum iudicium Pardoning in the Church hath more respect to the iudgement of the next worlde he meaneth by the temporall iudgement and for that he alledgeth out of Saint Paull that the iudgement which he willeth vs to preuent by punishing our selues is the correction of such as God loueth lest they be damned with the worlde which cannot signifie the euerlasting iudgement Wee meane not then that the Pardons of the Ecclesiasticall Magistrates should perteine to the releasing of bodelie paines duely deserued for sinne or for other causes appointed because Christ so did not vnto all but vnto some as it pleased his wisedome but this we saie that as he of his mercie tooke away and released the sinners of certaine temporall afflictions as well appointed by the law of Moses as enioyned by Gods owne hand and so gaue a Pardon of that which both Moses and his owne Father appointed euen so maie the Apostles and their successours pardon anie man that is worthie of that benefite of some parte or all such penance as their owne lawe prescribed or the iustice of God vpon the bonde of their decrees and the debt of the sinners hath in the next life prepared Although as I haue once noted before not onelie the Apostles miraculouslie but also Gods Priests dailie doe heale in the sacrament of extreame vnction and praiers not onelie sinnes but the penitent of their sickenes and infirmity where the disease especially came of sin as I suppose or otherwise when it is expedient to the partie and glorious to Gods name FVLKE You were bolde to saie before that if any man were sicke by Gods appointment for that cause onelie to satisfie for his sinnes remitted that he should streight recouer by the Popes pardon which is to graunt him such power as Christ had in remoouing ofbodelie sicknes suffered for the cause aboue specified That the priest wanteth this power because he knoweth not when bodelie sickenes is the deserued paine for sinne as though there were any paine that were not deserued for sinne it is no reason For an empirike healeth by vertue of his medicines oftentimes though he know not the cause of the sickenes and so should the priest by laying to his plaister if he had any such but none euer recouered sodainlie by the Popes pardon or the priests power therefore it is a fained for gerie
them peaceablie she was declared to be iust or iustified in the sight of men Therefore there are two kindes of iustification the one by faith before god the other by works before men therefore a man is not iustified by faith only but by works also which saying of S. Iamesis not repugnant to that we holde that a man is iustified before god sola fide by faith alone or by faith without the workes of the lawe as S. Paule saieth which is alone which comprehendeth al good works as also the examples of Abraham and Dauid in the 4. Chapter to the Romanes doc plainelie declare where the Apostle speaketh expreslely of circumcisiō which was a worke of obedience following the faith of Abraham And Dauid pronounceth the blessednes of a man to whome the Lord imputeth righteousnes without workes which must needes be vnderstood euen of workes following faith because Dauid speaketh of himselfe and of all men generallie that shall obtaine blessednes by the grace of god without merite of workes For to him that worketh reward is not imputed according to grace but according to debt Againe the Apostle writing to the Galathians which were faithful speaketh generally It is manifest that by the lawe no man is iustified before god for the iust shal liue by faith By which texts many more the conclusion is moste necessarie that before God workes following faith doe not iuslifie but faith alone without workes yet not a dead but a liuing faith which worketh by loue Further he saith they haue expresselie for absolution whose sinnes ye forgiue are forgiuen whose sinnes ye retaine are retained Iohn 20. but we haue no where that Priests cannot forgiue or retaine sinnes in earth But the controuersie is not whether the Ministers of God haue power to forgiue or retaine sinnes for we beleeue that they haue such power but whether absolute power properlie to forgiue sinnes and how the same is to be exercised is the question For we beleeue that God onelie hath power absolutelie properlie to remit sinnes according to the scripture man by declaring Gods will pleasure Yet againe they haue expresselie The doers of the lawe shall be iustified Rom. 2. And we saie euen as much but because none is found a doer of the lawe we saie with the same Apostle that it is manifest that no man is iustified before God by the lawe But our answerer inferreth moreouer that we haue no where that the law required at Christians hands is impossible or that the doing therof iustifieth not Christians yes we haue it expressely That which was impossible of the law in as much as it was weake by the flesh God sending his sonne in the similitude of sinfull flesh c. If there had beene a lawe giuen that had bene able to giue life righteousnes in deede had bene of the lawe but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promis by the faith of Iesus Christ might be giuen to them that belecue Againe by the workes of the lawe no flesh shal be iustified before him therefore no Christians by the workes of the lawe shal be iustified before him Moreouer we are saued by grace through faith not of workes Ergo Christians for none els are saued are iustified through faith without workes Yet againe they haue expresselie Psal. 75. Vowe ye and render your vowes we haut no where vowe ye not or if you haue vowed breake your vowes we confesse the Prophet willeth the people to vowe yet he meaneth onelie thinges lawfull and in their power to performe we bid no man to breake his vowe if it be lawful and possible but if he haue vowed to goe a pilgrimage which is Idolatrie or to liue vnmaried which is not able to liue continentlie we exhort him to repent of his wicked or vnaduised vowe to serue God as he hath appointed or to vse the remedie that God hath prouided They haue againe expreslie Keepe the traditions which ye haue learned either by worde or epistle 2. Thess. 2. we haue no where the Apostles left noe traditions to the Church vnwritten Saint Paull willeth the Thessalonians to keepe the traditions or doctrine which he had deliuered vnto them either by word of mouth or by his epistle This prooueth not that the Apostles left any traditions which are no where written in the holie scripture because they were not all written in the epistle of Saint Paul to the Thessalonians But we haue expresselie that the holie scriptures are able to make vs wise to saluation to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good works which things seing we haue fufficientlie in the holie scriptures we neither regard nor receiue any other doctrine vnder name of tradition of the Apo stles or of Angels from heauen Still they haue expresselie If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commaundements and when he said he did that already if thou wilt be perfect go sel all thou hast giue to the poore follow me And we haue no where that either the commaundements of God cannot be kept or that we are not bound vnto them or that there is no degree of life one perfecter then another We graunt that who so by good deeds will seeke to enter into life as that yong man did must doe the deedes of the commaundements which if he can doe he shal liue by them but albeit he boasted that he had kept the commaundements yet it followeth not that he did keepe them indeede and as god required but was a blinde hipocrite and sought to iustifie him-selfe according to the heresie of the Pharisies That we are not bound to keepe the commaundements as neere as God will giue vs grace is no article of ours but a slaunder of his Finallie we denie that anie mortall mans life is perfect yet we graunt that some mens liues come neerer to perfection then other some Neither doth our Sauiours words include perfection in selling his goodes nor in giuing them to the poore for if a man bestowe all his goodes to feede the poore and haue not loue he is nothing but he addeth that he must followe Christ and take vp his crosse and so by Christs grace he shal attaine vnto perfection which he falselie imagined that he he had obtained by a pharizaical obseruation of the lawe this fauoreth not Monkes and friers more then hipocrites and liers Beside this They haue expresselie worke your owne saluation with feare and tremhling Phil. 2. we haue no where either that a man can worke nothing toward his owne saluation being holpen with the grace of God or that a man should make it of his beliefe that he shall be saued without all doubt or feare The saying of Saint Paull we acknowledge that men should worke out their owne saluation with feare and trembling together with the next verse following for it is God that worketh in
tali agone diuino caelesti auxilio vt vel srater adsit qui te consoletur promissionibus gratiae foris velintus in corde spiritus sanctus verbum fratris erigat ac animet ac sustentet cor tuum vt possis sic apud 〈◊〉 statuere Confessus quidem sum Lege dei conuictus coram diabolo me peccasse me damnatum esse vt Iudam Sed verto me ad Christum cum Petro respicio eius immensum beneficium meritum c. ille omnem horrendam damnationem damnauit Here those most holie fathers will answere me here they will laugh and say art thou a famous doctour and knowest not how to answere the deuill Dost thou not know that the deuill is a lyer how say you by that I giue you great thankes as you are worthie for so sweete comforse in so weightie a matter These three wordes the deuill is a lyar I should not haue knowne vntil now except you most notable diuines had taught me If I were a Papist vnexpert of all temptations whome Satan would not neglect beeing carles and snorting as he neglecteth them that follow their lusts c. I should be such a Giant also stout and valiant against the enemie that is absent If you should beare the stripes of the deuill and heare his disputations you should not longsing the song of the Church after the accustomed manner I verilie doe see sufficientlie in Dauid and the rest of the Prophets how greeuouslie they wrestle and groone in those combates and such like against the deuill and his horrible violence And Christ him-selfe although without sinne in what aboundance of teares and anguish did he siriue for vs in those conflictes against Satan For he vrgeth mans heart exceedinglie ceaseth not except he be driuen backe with the word of God And I am plainlie perswaded that Emser and Oecolampadius and such like were sodendlie slaine wieh these horrible stripes and shakings For the harte of man cannot abide this horrible and vnspeakeable violence except God be with him For Satan in the twinckling of an eie sodendlie ouerwhelmeth the wholl minde with terrors and darkenes and if he finde nothing but a man vnarmed and not instructed in the word as it were with a litle finger he ouerwhelmeth him all at once It is true in deed that he is a lyar but his lies are not of a simple craftes man but much more craftie and prepared to deceiue then mans capacitis can comprehend He doth in such sort set vpon a man take holde of him and that sound truth which can not be denied and that he vrgeth and sharpeneth so craftelie and subtillie and couereth it so cunninglie that he may deceiue them that take the best heede of him c. As that cogitation which strake the heart of Iudas was true I haue betraied innocent blood this could not Iudas denie But this was a lie therefore I must despaire of the grace of God And yet the deuill vrged this lie this cogitation so violentlie that Iudas was not able to ouercome it but despaired Therefore good brother Sir Papist the deuill doth not lie when he accuseth or vrgeth the greatenes of sinne For thereby he hath two graue witnesses that are vnreproouable the law of God and our owne conscience I can not denie but I haue sinned I cannot denie my sinne to be greate I cannot denie that I am guiltie of death and damnation c. but there Satan lyeth when he vrgeth further that I should dispaire of grace As Cain said my sinne is greater c. And in this conflicte thou hast neede of the helpe of God from heauen that either some brother be present which may comforte thee outwardlie with the promises of God or that the holie ghost inwardlie in thy heart through thy brothers word do lift vp and encourage the and comfort thy heart that thou maist determine thus with thy selfe I haue in deede confessed before the deuill beeing conuicted by the law of God that I sinned that I am condemned as Iudas but I turne my selfe vnto Christ with Peter and looke backe to his infinite benefite and merit c. he hath condemned all horrible condemnation c. Now I reporte me to euerie indifferent reader whether Luther doe not speake here of a spirituall conflicte or tentation vnto desperation for his saying of priuate masse after he knew that it was idolatrie not of any bodelie conference about the abolishing of the masse Secondlie that Luther doth not yeald to the perswasions of the deuill wherewith the defender confesseth that both good and euill men are assaulted but according to the difference by him obserued resisteth the assault and obtaineth victorie thorough Christ. But now let vs heare what arguments our defender bringeth to prooue this bodelie conference First the confession of the Tigurine Caluenists but that is false The Tigurines did onelie reprooue Luther for his intemperat inuectiues and naming of deuilles so often our wise defender concludeth ergo Luther had deuilles Secondly he saith it is euident that this conference was more then spirituall by the deuilles preface wherein he calleth the frier right learned Doctor according to the vaine of pride wherewith he saw him puffed vp c. But what reasonable man seeth not that this presace of his title was but a bitter scorne of the deuill no flattering speach to make him readie to receiue his impressions as the defender saith As for the sound of Satans voice described in the place alledged in the Censure there is none such For the booke demissa angulari so often alledged by the papists is none other but this de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum as appeareth by the verie wordes noted by the Papists in lib. de missa angulari which are found here in this boke de missa priuata c. Therefore the sound of Satans voice is but some papists dreame vpon the matter which our defender would now hide vnder the title of de missa angulari The third reason is for that Luther confesseth some of his fellowes to haue beene slaine by this conference What he saith in his rash iudgement of Emser and Oecolampadius where of the one was a Papist the other a Protestant you heaue hard in his own words which prooueth no bodely conference For those terrible blowes and shakinges where of he speaketh are no more bodelie then the busfeting of Satan where of Saint Paul speaketh And who doubteth but that by such spirituall buffeting of Satan a man that is ouercome with exceeding sorrow may suddenlie die except he be assisted and comforted by the grace of Christ as Saint Paul was Finally the bushell of sault saith our defender which Luther confesseth himselfe to haue eaten together with the deuill prooueth that he had bodelie conference with him First the booke is not extant and if any such were yet it prooueth no bodelie conference For no man is so madde to thinke that
But in what asses eares should it so sound when euerie reasonable man must needes vnderstand that there be offences against the Prince and common wealth as fellonie misprision of treason Mayhem and such like which yet are not offences in so a high a degree as treason is The thing in question you confesse that there is something that doth repugne the law of God and yet is no sinne at all if it be without will or consent as the first motions of concupiscence are Another cauill you haue that his authors haue not onelie these wordes but somewhat more as when they saie Sinne is not whatsoeuer repugneth the law of God but c. If Master Chark had denied the rest it were somewhat that you saie but seeing you graunt they haue all that he rehearseth he is without blame and whether it be part of a definition it skilleth not seeing it is part of their affirmation A third cauill is that he chaungeth the place of the negatiue which in framing propositions altereth often the sense as for peccatum est non quicquid he saith non est peccatum quicquid If Master Charkes chaunging in this place did alter the sense you would haue tolde vs of it but seeing the sense is all one the chaunge is no fault Lastlie for repugneth the law of God you say he putteth it is against the worde of God But here by your leaue you make a peece of a lie for in his first answere he saith it repugneth the law of God which when he repeateth in his replie it is against the worde of God it can haue none other sense then before That you will admit as much as the Iesuites in word or sence haue vttered it is as much as Master Charke requireth Now to the obiection against the Iesuites definition made by Master Charke you saie that to prooue that sinne is no act he obiecteth that iniustice is a sinne and yet no act He were a poore sophister that could not espie your paultrie in this place Master Charke doth not prooue that sinne generallie taken is no act but he affirmeth that there is some sinne which is not an act And therefore the Iesuites in their definition haue not geuen the right Genus or materiall cause of sinne Now for iniustice to passe ouer your knauish example of the execution of Campian and his fellowes so innocent and learned men by great iniustice You take vpon you to teach Master Charke an high point of learning Of the difference betweene a vice that is an habite and a sinne that is a singuler fact which perhapps you weene he learned not before yet euerie young sophister in Cambridge knoweth it well enough But Master Charke speaketh of generall iniustice as his wordes are plaine which is a sinne in not doing the thing commaunded because it is a manifest transgression of the lawe of God whoe commaundeth the wholl and euerie part to be fullfilled and is the sinne of omission which you make the second obiection But euerie omission you saie includeth an act which is a grosse absurditie meaning such an act as is sinne For I maie doe a good act while I omit a better the omission of a better act is sinne the doing of a good act is no sinne To tith mint and anise is a good act of it selfe for it was commaunded by God must not be omitted yet was it sinne to omit mer cie and iustice as the wordes of Christ are plaine this you ought to doe and not to omit the other The examples you bring of one resoluing not to goe to Church Helie determining not to punish his children and the watchmen not to sound the trumpet where the determination and resolution as the cause is the principall part of the sinne are foolish For there maie be omission which is sinne where there is no resolution and determination to the contrarie of that which should be done but negligence or forgetfullnes yea there is omission which is sinne where there is no power in vs to performe that should be done as in all the reprobate and vnregenerate and in the regenerate also in part which neither doe nor can in this life loue God and their neighbour in such perfection as the lawe of God requireth There is omission also through ignorance of Godes lawe which is sinne and deserueth stripes and yet ignorance the cause thereof is no act but the lacke of knowledge But being ouercome by scripture and reason you flie to the authoritie of the auncient fathers and first you quote Chrysost. Homil. 16. in Epist. ad Eph. moste impudentlie where by scriptures reason examples he teacheth the cleane contrarie that omission of dutie is sinne though there be no act to the contrary as when Christ shall saie I was an hungred c. and concludeth Nihilenim boni facere hoc ipsum est malum facere to doe no good euen that is to doe euill or to sinne The like he saieth Hom. de virtut vitiis Satis est igitur mali hoc ipsum nihil fecisse boni Euen this is euill inough to haue done noe good Ambrose hom 18 hath nothing to the purpose or if you meane 81. which is translated out of Basils hom which you quote nexte he hath nothing to your purpose but rather against it For vpon the wordes of Christ Math. 25. I was an hungred and you gaue me not to eat he writeth thus Neque enim in his verbis qui aliena inuasit arguitur sed is qui non communiter vsus est iis que habuit condemnatur For in these wordes he is not reprooued which hath laid bolde vpon other mens goodes but he which hath not communicated those thinges which he had is condem ned Basills wordes in Greek are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the extorcioner is not there accused but he that doth not communicate is condemned Last of all you charge vs with that definition of Saint Augustine contra Faust. lib. 22. cap. 27. Peccatum est factum vel c. Sinne is something done or said or coueted against the eternall lawe But if this were a perfect definitiō what needed the Iesuites to frame another according to whose definition this of Saint Augustine is larger then the word defined and in respect of the sinne of omission it is streighter then the terme of sinne yet it serued Saint Augustine for his purpose in hand concerning the facts of the Patriarches mentioned in the scripture which were to be praised and which to be dispraised As for Ambrose in the place by you quoted lib. de paradiso cap. 8. hath another definition then Augustine and a more perfect taken out of Saint Iohn Quidest enim peccatum saith he nisi praeuaricatio legis diuinae coelestium inobedientia praeceptorum For what is sin but the transgression of the lawe of God and a disobedience of the heauenlie commaundements This definition of Ambrose is perfect and maketh
thinke you haue prepared this as a bumme carde to wine the game That S. Auustine saieth concupiscence in the regenerate is not sinne I graunt so you wil confesse that he saith also that it is sinne When he saieth it is not sin he meaneth either because the guilt is forgiuen 〈◊〉 because it is not actuall sinne as Saint Iames doth distinguish sinne from concupiscence But that it is of it selfe sinne and damnable if it be not remitted he affirmeth cont Iul. Pel. lib. 5. c. 3. lib. 6. cap. 5. he saith it is euill alwaies and cap. 3. he condemneth it as the Pelagians heresie that 〈◊〉 it is not to be blamed Where Master Charke chargeth you with alteration of the text when you translate omnis qui facit peccatum euerie one that sinneth where you should saie euerie one that doth sinne you make sporte afteryour manner and aske what difference whether a man saie your wife spinneth or your wife doth spin where you shew your selfe to be a verie good Grammarian that can make no difference in our tongue betweene the signe of the actiue mode doth and the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 think that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differeth nothing in vehemency from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which M. Chark told you you should haue translated to expresse the force of the phrase in our tongue euerie one that committeth sinne But this you count smal game and I would it were the greatest that you haue committed in your censure You cannot afford M. Chark to say that he knoweth he serueth the Lord because he hath not that knowledge by Aristotles demonstrations you are sure which yet are the onelie meanes of certaine science properlie So that the doctrine of the scriptures the testimonies of the holie ghost are no meanes of certaine science properlie Yet without them and Aristotles demonstrations also you are sure that Master Charke hath no certaine knowledge that he serueth the Lorde Or if you suppose you can gather your surenes 〈◊〉 Aristotelicall demonstrations it maie please you to thinke that Master Charke may by the same kinde of demonstrations gather the certaintie of his knowledge hauing the maior in the holie scriptures and the testimonie of his conscience and of the holie spirit for the minor and conclusion The examples you obiect of Luther and Bucer altering their opinions are not like the matter in question For as men may 〈◊〉 so maie they be deceiued in their opinion of 〈◊〉 God yet it followeth not that no man maie be certaine that he serueth God trulie Where you saie that Luther had beene a protestant manie yeares when he saide he did knowe there was a purgatorie it is false sor at the same time he acknowledged the Popes authoritie 〈◊〉 humano by the lawe of men as in the time of the Canstans Councell it was the opinion of manie Papists The ninth section intituled Of Concupiscence Art 2. THe doctrine of the Iesuites as Gotuisus reporteth is that Concupiscence remayning in the regenerate although it be against the law of God yet is it not 〈◊〉 properlie in it selfe or of his owne nature Here you will not accept the excuse which layeth the addition of these wordes although it be against the law of God vpon 〈◊〉 because Master Charke might haue seene them wanting in Canisius As though he was bound to examine the reporte of Gotuisus which he promiseth to rehearse by Canisius But Master Charke telleth you the excuse is needeles because those words must of aecessity be vnderstood For the question isof none other concupiscence but that which is against the law Secondlie you slaunder him when you saie he doth assure his Reader that you doe vnder hand graunt concupiscence to be some kinde of sinne when you denie it to be mortall sinnes for his sentence is disiunctiue namelie either you graunt c. or els you loade and disguise your sentence with waste wordes which is true for to what purpose should you denie that to be deadlie sinne which you do not acknowledge to be anie sinne as if one should saie an Asse is not a wise man he should speake fondlie seing an Asse is no man That concupiscence by Saint Paul is called sin vnproperlie as S. Augustine saith because it is the cause of sinne Master Charke denieth yet without anie malepertnes as you charge him or contumelie neuer so litle vnto Saint Augustine but with that libertie which he himselfe graunteth to all men that shall reade or examine his writings Neither is Saint Augustines iudgement alwaies the exposition of the primitiue Church when both he diffenteth from others and from himselfe also now and then But now let vs see how you cauill at Master Charkes exposition of Saint Paul to the Romanes where he calleth concupiscence sinne First he saith though the Lawe stirrcth vs to sinne yet is it no sinne and that maketh for you for so you may conclude of concupiscence But then your conclusion shal be false and your reasoning weaker then that you reprehend in Master Charke as weake reasoning where he saith If the lawe that is holie doe come in question of sinne for that it prouoketh our corrupt nature to sinne how much more concupiscence which is vncleane of it selfe This prooueth nothing say you but from the place à disparatis where children and distracted men take their arguments I will enter no logicall disputation with you of what force the argument à disparatis is if it be rightlie vsed but I maruell you could not see the argument à comparatis from the lesse to the more If the holie lawe maie come in question of sinne much more the vncleane lust But you woulde haue men thinke that Master Charke meant by this comparison to conclude that lust is properlie sinne wheras he onelie prepareth a waie to that conclusion by this comparison But the antecedent you saie is false that the law stirreth vs to sinne or the lawe prouoketh our corrupt nature to sinne Which Master Charke saith not absolutelie but that through our rebellion the law giuing no occasion but the occasion beeing altogether taken by our corruption rebelling against the commaundement You replie that the lawe doth no waie stirre to sinne but by discouering as a glasse doth spottes and that Saint Paul hath no such meaning as Master Charke saith But the text is too plaine to be denied That sinne taking occasion through the commaundement hath wrought in me all concupiscence the commaundement comming sinne reuiued Sinne taking occasion thorough the commaundement hath deceiued me c. that sinne might be made exceedinglie sinnefull Now to prooue that Saint Paul meaneth voluntarie concupiscence whereunto consent or delectation is yelded where he saith he had not knowne concupiscence if the lawe had not saide thou shalt not lust you cite S. Augustine lib. 1. de nupt concup cap. 29. where he hath the cleane contrarie iudgement Multum boni facit qui facit quod
scriptum est post concupiscentias tuas non eas sed non perficit quia non implet quod scriptum est Non concupisces He doth much good which doth that which is written goe not after thy lustes but he maketh not his good perfect because he fulfilleth not that which is written Thou shalt not lust These wordes and the wholl Chapter prooueth that Saint Augustine vnderstandeth the tenth commaundement of concupiscence whereunto no consent is added Againe lib. de spir lit cap. vltimo he saith that this commaundement Thou shalt not lust perteineth to the life to come because no man can fulfill it in this life but the other Goe not after thy lustes perteineth to this life because men may restreine by Gods grace consent and delectation in lust Your third quotation is lib. 19. Cont. Faustum cap. 7 where Saint Augustine saith no more for you then in the rest sauing that he saith That for as much as it is hard for vs to fullfill in euerie respect that which is written in the law thou shalt not lust Christ beeing made a prieste by the sacrifice of his flesh obteineth pardon for vs euen so fulfilling the law that by his perfection might be recouered that which by our infirmitie we could not In which saying except you will cauill vpon the terme of difficultie which in other places he maketh a flat impossibilitie there is no shadow for your assertion In your fourth quotation Cont. 2. ep Petil. lib. 3. cap. 7. or in steede of Petil. as I gesse you would saie Pelagianorum is nothing sounding to the matter but rather the contrarie that perfection cannot be in this life because there cannot be perfect iustice or fulfilling of the law Where fore I can but wonder at your impudencie in these quotations And yet as though you had found a great 〈◊〉 you saie it is most worthie of laughter which Master Charke for filling vp of a page discourseth of S. Pauls estate when he saith Paul compareth his estate before his knowledge of the tenth commaundement with his state afterward c. Verelie the Greeke prouerbe hath place in you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. A foole lauheth when there is nothing worthie of laughter You aske how he could be ignorant of that commaundement considering his education yet be able to 〈◊〉 other sinnes by the light of naturall reason But Master Charke saith he knew other sinnes by the law and light of nature He knew also by his bringing vp that it was written in the law thou shalt not lust but he vnderstood it not otherwise then the Pharises did which thought they were able to keepe the law But after he learned what originall sinne and the lust thereof proceeding was he sound himselfe condéned by the tenth commaundement which he could not doe by the other nine from which it is perfectlie distinct nor by the light of reason for the philosophers could neuer atteine to vnderstand that sinne But concupiscence with consent and delectation they could perceiue to be vitious and sinfull So that your sardonicall laughter may be staide and turned to weeping if 〈◊〉 had grace to know that commaundement as Saint Paul had whereof it appeareth you are as ignorant as euerhe was Concerning the similitude of the latine tongue whereof the tongue is onelie an instrumentall cause as it answereth not the effect of originall sinne so being a contention of termes I will not stand vpon it Againe I confesse it is not necessarie that euerie effect of originall sinne should be sinne in the regenerate as hunger sicknes c. but originall sinne is not so the efficient of these as of actuall sinnes for the iustice of God is the good proper and principall next efficient of those punishments sinne is the cause moouing the iustice of God to punish but original sin is the immediat euil material cause of actual sin That the guilt of original sin is taken-away from theregenerate in and by baptisme we do not denie yet remaineth the sin after baptisme though it be not impured as sinne vnto condemnation in the children of God That Christ is called sinne because i. e is a sacrifice to take awaie sinne maie prooue as you saie that something is figuratiuelie called sinne which properlie is no sinne But that concupiscence should as vnproperlie be called sinne you can not prooue because it is a matter and increaser of sinne Your false quotation Rom. 8. where Christ is called sinne you would iustifie by the 3. verse where there is no such matter but that God sent Christ in the similitude of sinfull flesh and of sinne condemned sinne in the flesh But if the text will not serue you send vs to the commentaries which can not alter the text howsoeuer some do compare this place with that of 2. Cor. 5. 21. and other some do take it otherwise Touching the auncient Fathers 〈◊〉 in the Censure to testifie that concupiscence is not sin in the regenerat if consent be not yealed c. you saie he hath passed ouer Cyprian and Pacacius without anie word vnto him The cause is for that they saie nothing to him in the matter controuersed beteweene him and you For Cyprian in both the places sheweth that baptisme by the spirit of God purgeth a man and washeth him cleane from all spots of sinne Which Master Charke confesseth as concerning the guilt because concupiscence though it remaine is not imputed for sinne in the regenerated But the question is what concupiscence of it selfe deserueth 〈◊〉 in the regenerated if it were imputed by Gods iustice as it is forgiuen by his grace Albeit he be not bound to take all that Cyprian writeth for Gospel especiallie in that Sermon de ablutione pedum if it be Cypriant As for Pacianus he saith not all so much If you haue anie wordes in the Fathers that maie enforce your meaning set them downe plainlie and mocke vs no longer with dumme questiones Ambrose and Clemens Alexandrinus as Master Charke telleth you haue not your wordes nor sense for whatsoeuer they saie of the purenes of them that are regenerated we acknowledge with them in respecte of the remission of their sinnes not that the regenerated are voide of al sinne or naturall corruption more then they be voide of infirmitie and mortalitie Where Clemens saith that concupiseence alone is adultrie you labour in vaine to adde consent for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alone doth exclude what soeuer you can adde vnto it Where you cauill that he exhorteth the Gentiles to resist these motions of concupiscence and would prooue thereby that they are not the first motions which are vnauoidable it is a tale for he exhorteth the Gentiles to Christianitie where they should finde remission of all sinnes and all honnstie oflife Gregorie Nazianzen hath an oration or homilie intituled of holie baptisme but not de S. Iana as your Censure had in the first edition and in that oration he prooueth not your
purpose teaching onelie that we are consecrated or made perfect by baptisme which is true in respect of sanctification and remission of sinnes but prooueth not that concupiscence which you confesse to be an euil thing remaining in the regenerate is chaunged in nature to be no sinne although it be forgiuen and shall not be imputed to the elect For the wrong quoting of Augustine do 〈◊〉 concupiscent You were best quarrell with your printer for Master Charke hath instlie charged your booke with error in the first edition whereunto he answered which you will not vnderstand but charge him with ignorance quarreling and impudencie whereas your quotation was twise lib. de nupt concupiscent And not as you saie now lib. 1. de nupt concupiscent You with that you were with Master Charke to see if he would blush at his ignorance by you discouered and cal backe your wish for feare of purseuants But I looke not at all that your brasen face should blush either at so small a fault or at so false a defense thereof which are not ashamed of a great number of more wrong and impudent quotationes then that is for which though no purseuantes shall attach you yet the reproch of them shall pursue you to the vtter confusion of your proude and arrogant Censure and more impudent and vnlearned defense Finallie Ambrose lib. 1. de voc gent. c. 5. hath not one worde to prooue that concupiscence in the regenerate is no sinne of it selfe But where Master Charke rehearseth not the verie wordes but the meaning of Saint Augustine expounding him-selfe in what sense he saith that concupiscence is not sinne you set abroad all the sailes of your rayling and venemous tongue and penne against him Saint Augustines words are dimitti concupiscentiam carnis in baptismo non vt non sit sed vt in peccatum non imputetur Quamuis autem reatu suo iam soluto manet tamen donec sanetur omnis infirmitas nostra proficiente renouatione interioris hominis de die in diem cúm exterior induerit incorruptionem non enim substantialiter manet sicut aliquod corpus aut spiritus sed affectio est quaedam malae qualitatis sicut languor Concupiscence of the flesh is remitted in baptisme not so that it is not but so that it is not imputed to sinne And albeit the guilt thereof be loosed yet it remaineth vntil al our infirmitie behealed the renuing of the inward man profiting from daie to daie when the outward man shall haue put on incorruption for it remaineth not substantiallie as a bodie or a spirit but it is a certaine affection of euill qualitic as a sickenes These words declare that concupiscence being an affection of euill qualitie which is as much to saie as sinne remaning in the regenerate although it be not imputed to them as sin for that if they 〈◊〉 against it it shall not preuaill against them to condemne them A sinne not imputed is a sinne of his owne nature The sinnes of Gods elect are not imputed to them they are forgiuen the guilt is taken awaie they are washed awaie in the blood of Christ they are as white as wooll and as snowe yet of their owne nature they are foule abhominable and detestable transgressions of Gods lawe so is concupiscence against the lawe thou shalt not lust as Augustine often confesseth therefore of it selfe sinne euen in the regenerate to whome it is remitted The similutude of a sickenes also whereunto Augustine doth often compare it sheweth the same For a sicknes if it be not healed either by strength of nature preuailing or by medicine doth either cause death or remaineth as long as life so concupiscence of itselfe would kill if the medicines of Christs redemption did not ouercome the malice of it and in the ende take awaie the disease from the rootes But for a cleerer proofe Master Charke alledgeth that Saint Augustine in an other place saith plainlie it is sinne You answer that he saith onelie of concupiscence in generall that it is sinne and not of concupiscence in the regenerate But that Saint Augustine speaketh of concupiscence in the regenerate it is manifest by this reason for that he saith concupiscence of the flesh against which the good spirit lustesh which is onelie in the regenerate As he him selfe saith in an other place by you quoted Non enim rectè cuiusquam spiritus concupisceret aduersue carnem suam nisi habitaret in illo spiritus Christi For no mans spirit should rightlie lust against his fiesh except the spirit of Christ did dwell in him But that concupiscence without consent is properlie no sinne you saie Saint Augustine prooneth by the wordes of Paule him-selfe who calleth it sinne in the chapter last remembred but that is false he only retaineth his vsuall acception of the word sinne for actualsin as Saint Iames doth whose termes of conception and bringing forth also he vseth yet he concludeth that concupiscence without consent is euill is to be chastised to be brideled to be fought against to be ouercome which prooueth sufficientlie that it is sinne though not actuall sinne yet properlie sinne from which we can not be deliuered but by the grace of Christ sinne of another kinde sinne in another degree called sinnne in the scripture and therefore without controuersie except we will trifle in vaine contention of termes and childish sophismes where the matter is plaine sinne in deede and properlie which of his owne nature deserueth death but that it is purged by the blood of Christ as all other sinnes of what sort or degree soeuer they be in those that are saued That Saint Augustine vseth other whiles the termes of veniallie and mortallie when he speaketh of sinning it can not defend your distinction wherebie you holde that there be some sinnes so smale as of their owne nasure they deserue not damnation contrarie to the scripture that saith generallie the reward of sinne is death Whereas Saint Augustine meaneth onelie degrees of sinnes whereof some are lesse some are hainous yet all deserue death For Saint Augustine must be vnderstood according to the scripture but the scripture must not be racked to agree with Saint Augustine Hitherto concerning the doctrine of the Iesuites that concupiscence in the regenerate without consent is not sinne Against this doctrine Gotuisus opposeth the wordes of our Sauiour Christ Mat. 5. 28. whosoeuer shall see a woman to lust after her he hath alreadie committed adulterie with her in his heart which text you confirme as you said before to be alledged ignorantlie and against him-selfe because here is a manifest consent of the heart expressed to make concupiscence adulterie And for that purpose you cite Saint Augustine and to all this you aske what sir William replyeth and answer your selfe Surelie nothing but maketh a long idle speake of praedicatum and subiectum as pertinent to the matter as Charing crosse to Billings gate If William Charkes
in expresse wordes absolue many of their sinnes conceiuing in their heartes as it is recorded by Saint Matthew in the historie of the healing of the man that had the palsie that Christ did iniurie to God and committed blaspemie in taking vpon him to remit mans offences whose malitious mindes and cogitations Christ did so reprehend that they might well perceiue by his sight of their inwarde secrets that he was verie God whoe onelie by nature looketh into mans heart and therefore did therebie well insinuate that they could not iustlie reprehend his doings seeing he was God in deede and might as God pardon mans offences Yet that notwithstanding he stoode not with them then vpon the right of his Godhead for the doing of this excellent function which in deede by nature and propertie is onelie perteining to him but he gaue this reason of his doeing that the Sonne of man had power to remit sinnes in earth wherebie me seemeth wherein yet I submit my iudgement to the more learned that he plainlie professed that by power receiued he might in respect of his manhoode and calling forgiue sinners and that in earth as meaning therebie to institute an order and waie how to remit sinnes here in the worlde either by him-selfe or by his ministers at whose sentence past in earth the penitent should be frree by iudgement of God in heauen For so our sauiour two or three times talking of mans ministerie in the remission of 〈◊〉 termeth it loosing in earth and the contrarie binding in earth as also he calleth Gods high sentence in the same cause loosing and binding in heauen Neither doth the interpretation of Saint Hilarie anie whit hinder my meaning whoe vpon that place affirmeth Christ to haue remitted this mans sinnes by the might of his Godheade for it standeth well that one worke should be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secondarie cause appointed by the ordinance of God for the same vse as we see in baptisme to the remission of the childes sinne both the might of God and the ministery of man to concurre at once whereof we shall haue I trust better occasion to speake anon FVLKE It is well that you can make such light account of such as shal obiect against you that it is not lawfull for mā to vsurpe any thing which is proper to god as is the absolute power to forgiue sinnes which none can properlie and absolutelie forgiue but he against whome they be committed Therefore there is a broad difference betweene the power of God and the 〈◊〉 of man in forgiuing of sinnes God doth absolutelie and properlie forgiue sinnes committed against his law and maiestie Man by his appointment doth assure the penitent sinners of his sinnes forgiuen by God and therefore in some phrase of 〈◊〉 is said to forgiue sins as he is said to saue mens soules to whom he preached the saluation by Iesus Christ. The Scribes did rightlie affirme that none could forgiue sinnes but God onelie but they erred in that they did not acknowledge Christ to be God whoe in the person of the mediator euen in that state of humilitie in which he was conuersant vpon earth was no whit abridged of his diuine authoritie but that he might by the same power forgiue sins that he did heale diseases And whereas he saith that the sonne of man had power to forgiue sinnes vpon earth he meaneth not that he had it as meere man but as God and man in one person and that his manhoode was no let vnto him to exercise that power of his Godheade Iohn 3. he saith the sonne of man came downe from heauen and that the sonne of man is in heauen But this is not to be vnderstood of the sonne of man according to his manhood but according to his Godhead as many other such speaches are in the scripture which in respect of the vnitie of the person ascribe to the one nature that which is proper to the other as Act. 20. to feede the Church of God which he hath redeemed with his owne bloode where redemption by his bloode is affirmed of God which is proper and true in respect of Christs humanity Your modestie is commendable that you doe submit your selfe to the iudgement of other in that your conceite of Christes meaning thereby to institute an order c. for the order that he hath instituted and the power that he hath giuen of binding and loosing in earth is els where plainly and purposedlie set forth that we neede not such vnnecessary vnlikelie coniectures to ground it vpon And whereas you affirme that the interpretation of Saint Hilarie doth not any whit hinder your meaning because one worke may be wrought by the principall cause and yet by the office and ministerie of some secundarie I answere the questions is not what may be but what was done in that case whereof Saint Hilaries iudgement is flat against you His words are in Mat. com Canon 8. Mouet Scribas remissum ab homine peccatum Hominem enim tantùm in Iesu Christo confitebantur remissum ab eo quod lex laxare non poteratifides enim 〈◊〉 iustificat deinde murmurationem eorum dominus introspicit dicitque facilè esse filio hominis in terra peccata dimittere Verùm enim nemo potest dimittere pecoata nisi solus Deus ergo quiremittit Deus est quia nemo remittie nisi Deus deus in homine manens curationem homini praestabat nulla ei agendi aut loquendi erat difficultas cui subest totum posse quod loquitur Porro autem vt ipse in corpore positus intelligi possit esse qui animis peccata dimitteret resurrectionem corporibus prestaret ait vt siatis quoniam silius hominis habet potectatem in terra dimittendi peccata c. It mooueth the Scribes that sinne is remitted by a man for they did beholde a man onelie in Iesus Christ and that to be remitted by him which the law could not release For faith alone doth iustifie afterward our Lord looketh into their murmuring and saith that it is easie for the sonne of man on earth to forgiue sinnes But none truelie can forgiue sinnes but God alone therefore he which forgiueth is God be ause no man remitteth but God God abiding in man performed healing to the man and there was no difficultie to him of doing or speaking who hath power so be able to doe all that he speaketh But that he beeing placed in the bodie might be vnderstood to be the same which forgiueth sinnes to mens soules and performeth resurrection to their bodies he saith that you may know that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes c. Let the reader iudge whether Saint Hilarie doe any whit in these wordes hinder your meaning And yet more plainlie Saint Chrysostome controlleth your meaning and speaketh expresselie and directlie against it in Mat. Hom.
the sonne of man which was proper to him-selfe so he might well giue the other Your argument in à posse adesse which is not worth a strawe among them that knowe that argumentes doe meane That power which God might giue to meere mortall men whoe doubteth but God might also giue to Christ his sonne to exercise according to his humaine nature but that he did exercise the same onelie as man not as God by what argument is it prooued we knowe that in casting out of deuilles he vsed his diuine authoritie and in his owne name commaunded them to come forth and they obeied Marke 1. 27. he raised the dead by his owne authoritie as God and in his owne name Luke 7. 14. Saint Iohn restifieth that of the eternall worde which was made flesh and dwelt among vs he and his fellowe Apostles did see the glorie as the glorie of the onelie begotten Jonne of God full of grace and trueth From whence come you therefore with a Ghospell to teach vs that Christ did forgiue sinnes heale the sicke cast out deuills and doe miracles but as a man onelie by power receiued from God whereby you shew your selfe to be a good procter for the Arrians if those works which were proper to Christ in respect of his diuinitie you wil draw downe to his humanitie so that he raised the dead clensed the leapers c. not otherwise thē by power receiued frō god as Elizeus did or as anie of his Apostles which did al things in his name whose dignitie you are so careful to further that you care not how you abase the honour of their Master al to bring in a popish that is an Antichristian tyrannie ouer mens soules which is blasphemous against the authoritie of God For if the plaine text of the scripture Iohn 20. 23. whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen c. would yeald you so much authority as you would gladly excercise you would not trouble your selfe to make such impertinent and inconsequent collections by which you would haue it seeme as though Christ in respect of his diuine nature was vnoccupied as concerning the worke of our redemption in the world but that he did all thinges in respect of his humane nature by power receiued from God But Saint Augustine you saie prooueth that by the spirit of God in respect of his manhood Christ wrought miracles which although it be not the matter in question yet you drawe S. Austen to another matter then euer was in his meaning For although it be true that Christ did cast out Deuills in the spirit of God as man yet it followeth not that he did not cast out deuills by his owne authoritie as God seeing the workes of the Trinitie are vndeuided and Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted distinguisheth between those sayings that speake of him as in the forme of God and those that pertaine vnto him in respect of the shape of a seruant But an other argument you haue of that the Iewes which seeing themselues thus ouercome in their vaine cogitations waxed afraid and glorifyed God who gaue such power to men That the Scribes and Pharises which first mooued the question of forgiuenes of sinnes were mooued with reuerence of our sauiour Christ or yealded glorie God I finde not but that al the rest of the people glorifyed to god which had giuen such power to men What power saie you to forgiue sinnes The text saith not so but of working such miracles to heale the man sicke of the palsie so that he was presentlie changed from extreame weaknes to perfect strengh whereof as S. Luke reporteth they said we haue seene sirange things to day and as S. Marke rocordeth it they said we neuer sawe it thus But as for the ordinarie power of making attonement for sinnes which the Priests vsed according to the lawe it was no strange thing vnto them and they had seene it often times before These therefore are the best interpreters of S. Math. which did write by the same spirit But because mans authority with you is many times preferred before god you shal heare what S. Hilarie saith in that place which ere while you affirmed to make nothing against your meaning his interpretation of the text Et honorificauerunt deum quòd tantā dedit potestatem hominib c. is this Conclusa sunt omnia suo ordine cessante iam desperationis timore honor Deo redditur quòd tantam dederit hominibus potestatem sed soli hoc Christo erat debitum solide communione paternae substantiae hoc agere erat familiare All thinges are concluded in due order and the feare of disperation now ceasing honour is rendered to God because he hath giuen so great power to men But this was due onelie to Christ to him alone it was familiar or accustomable to doe these thinges by the communion of his fathers substance These wordes doe plainelie shew that Saint Hilary dissenteth euerie whit from your meaning and that you arme your schollers with no armour of proofe when you wil them to looke for the like power of remitting sins in Christs humanity which he did exercise according to the authoritie of his diuinitie ALLEN Let the proud cogitations of men here attend that so highlie disdaine the ministerie of mortall men in the remission of their sinnes let them controulle the wounderfull wisdome of God which would no otherwise saue the pitifull sores of our soules but by the seruile forme of our owne nature ioined meruelouslie in our person to the worde and eternall Sonne of God the father let them reprehend the vnsearchable secret councell of the holie Trinitie which being of power infinite to worke their wil in al creatures yet would not repaire the world nor remit our sinnes anie otherwise but by the seruice of the Sonne of man let them mislike that flesh blood and the soule of our blessed sauiour being al creatures should ioyne with the onelie almightie creator of all thinger in the remission of all our offences let the presumptuose thus doe and let vs humblie reuerence Gods ordinance and glorifye him in his Sonnes high calling in our kinde through whose singular prerogatiue we shall vndoubtedlie finde exceeding power to be giuen to his bodie and brethren in earth to his moste deare spouse the Church FVLKE The ministerie of mortall men in remission of sinnes no man I hope is so madde to disdaine when Christ him-selfe in so plaine termes hath authorized the same But where you saie that the wisdome of God would no otherwise salue the pittifuli sores of our soules but by the seruile forme of our nature ioined meruelouslie in one person to the word and eternall sonne of God I cannot but maruaile at your Nestorian blasphemie For although it be moste certaine that in the forme of a seruant the wisdome of God preformed that which to the glorie of his iustice was expedient yet that the deitic was altogether idle
that purpose And therefore hauing the grace of God and remission of sinnes ioyned vnto it by Christes promise it must needes be a sacrament as baptisme is which all the fathers doe insinuate when they make penance to be one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes no lesse then Baptisme is Neither was it the preaching of the Gospell nor the inward sorowfullnes or repentance of former sinnes that Nouatus did condemne but it was the sacrament of penance and act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie which he so much abhorred and meant wickedlie to remooue For which cause as he was iustlie condemned of heresie by the Roman Nicen Councelles so were you Master Protestants both then in them and since in your Masters Wiclife Luther Caluine and the like accused by Gods Church and Councels FVLKE We will neuer graunt that baptisme or anie sacrament doth remit sinnes properlie but God by sacraments ministered by man doth assure vs that he doth remit our sins vnproperly we may say the sacraments and the ministers of them doe remit sinnes because the one is the mouth of god to declare his sentence of forgiuenes of our sins the other are the seals of god to confirme our faith in his promises of remission of sins To holde that the children of Christian Parentss in whome is no contempt or neglect of baptisme cannot be saued and receiued into heauen without it is to abridge the power of God as though he could not giue saluation without sacraments neither hath he declared anie necessitie of his will to the contrarie For the text of Iohn 3. Except a man be borne againe of water and of the spirit pertaineth not to the externall sacrament of baptisme more then the like saying of our sauiour Christ Iohn 6. Except you eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke hu blood you haue no life in you pertaineth to the sacrament of the Lordes supper That Originall sinne remaineth in the baptized though it be not imputed to the elect both the scripture and our owne experience teacheth Saint Paull did see another lawe in his members withstanding the lawe of his minde and bringing him captiue vnder the law of sinne which is in his members The Doctrine of onelie faith iustifyng and of imputed iustice although they be the Doctrine of the holie Ghost your blasphemous spirit calleth pelting paradoxes as your slaunderous malice not onelie imagineth but stoutlie affirmeth that we haue a secret Doctrine of Epicurisme which we teach secretly to certaine strangers at home c. Whereof let God who knoweth all secretes be iudge and reuenger Your argument of remission of sinnes in baptisme confirmed by testimonie of Saint Ambrose we graunt that it is no dishonour to God that man should remit sinnes by that power which god hath graunted him But whereas in his wordes you would haue the good reader to marke that poenitentia doth not signifie repentance but your popish sacrament of penance I will desire the good reader to marke the contrarie For Saint Ambrose by making obiection doth plainelie distinguish mysteriorum gratiam which is in baptisme from panitentia in which is onelie the inuocation of Gods name or the name of God aduouched for assurance of remission of sinnes which whether it be in the solemne act of reconciling those which are open penitents or in preaching and declaring remission of sinnes to al trulie repentant sinners it commeth all to one end For there is not in that repentance mysterium gratiae that is a promise adioyned to an outward sacrament which spirituallie worketh that which externallie it representeth Yet you saie there is an externall and visible action appointed by Christ 20. of Saint Iohn to reconcile sinners by the forme of absoluing which the Church vseth c. Here wanteth nothing but proofe of that you saie Here such syllogismes as you make at the end of euerie Chapter were necessarie to demonstrate this conclusion For we can see no external or visible action inthese words whose sins you retaine they are retained whose sins you remit they are remitted therefore no sacrament But all the fathers you saie doe insinuat the same when they make penance one prescribed ordinance of Christ to forgiue sinnes by no lesse then baptisme I denie this argument for euerie ordinance of Christ whereby sinnes are forgiuen is not a sacrament But it was not the preaching of the Gospell or repentance saie you that Nouatus did condemne but the sacrament of penance act of absolution by the Priestes ministerie Epiphanius and others doe writ that he denied remission of sins to thé that had fallen into idolatrie after baptisme although they were repentant Other more fauourablie write of him that he denied onely the outward reconciling vnto the Church or act of absolution by the priests ministerie for them that had so fallen But of the sacrament of penance there is no mention in any auncient writer of those or much later times Therefore Wiclif Luther Caluin and we all doe subscribe to the auncient Churches condemnation of Nouatus for an heretike and his opinion for heresie ALLEN The doctours therefore as I haue said ioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes Baptisme and penance and some time extreame vnction also that you neede not doubt but they tooke them all three for sacraments workeing remission of sinnes For they doe not talke of inwarde repentance but of an action solemlie exercised in Gods Church whereof the priest as you heare by Saint Ambrose and Saint Chysostome is the minister And therefore Epiphanius saieth that the Church hath two penances one for an other insinuating thereby the double act of the Church and sacrament whereby sinnes be remitted As Saint Augustine also saieth by the Nouatians quòd poenitentiam denegant that they denie penance By which penance Lactantius teacheth vs also a way to discerne the true Church from the false as in which there is both confession and penance for the healing of mans frailtie Whereby it is euident that this penance which they speake of was an vsuall ceremonie and holy sacrament of the Church whereby sinnes were remitted FVLKE Such a sacrament such arguments the Doctorsioyne lightlie in talking of remission of sinnes baptisme and penance and sometime extreame vnction Therefore you neede not doubt that they toke them all three for sacraments And yet you haue not brought one Doctor that speaketh of extreame vnction For Chrysostome speaketh of the effect of praier made by the priest to obtaine remission of sinnes although the gift of healing be ceased in the Church And it is manifest that Saint Iames speaketh not of extreame vnction which you minister to none but such as are ready to die when he promiseth restitution of health to the diseased that were anointed in those daies Againe his vnction was onelie with oyle yours is with I cannot tell what slibbersauce cōsecrated by the Bishop That anointing was not extreame when it might be repeated
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of 〈◊〉 and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
awe is not excluded by remoouing the sacrament of penance which is neither the discipline of the Church nor the power of re mission of sins graunted to the ministers of the Church ALLEN It were too teadious further to declare how these externall meanes of working inward grace and remission of sinnes be necessarie for the outward man which is sometimes refreshed otherwhiles bridled by things answerable as well outwardlie to the bodie as inwardlie to the minde It is needlesse also to treat at large how it is necessarie for the one and visible common wealth of Christes Church to agree together in all pointes thereof and be notoriouslie knowne from all other sectes and sortes of peoples that do not professe Christes name by the outward practize of all holie functions by which God hath promised to giue grace remission and sanctification to all his faithfull subiects All these considerations with many the like maie serue and satisfie the quiet peaceable children of Christes Church that haue learned to rest in Christes ordinance though the causes thereof be not to them opened As for other that are euer doubting and neuer settelledin their faith that alwaies be learning and yet neuer attaine to knowledge that had rather vnderstand much then beleeue a litle such fellowes I must not so much instruct as by the scriptures and examples of all ages controlle and confound if I maie Let them therefore be charged that God hath not onelie vsed from the creation of man to bring vp al people that serue him in some especiall waies of outward worshipping but hath also these manie worlds deliuered man from originall and actuall sinnes by externall sacraments and sacrifices not without the priestes especiall procurement and ministerie therein What did circumcision instituted by God in the law of nature commaunded to Abraham and his seede and continued so many ages euen till Christes law tooke place Did it not after a sorte remit sinnes Was it anie other thing but an externall worke in the face of the world Was it ministred by man Did it derogate anie thing to the honour of God which by himselfe for his owne glorie and namesake was ordeined And afterward in the law of Moses which did draw neere vnto Christian vsages by manie actions of sacrifices and solemne rites instituted purposelie to represent foreshew the state of our present Church there we haue plaine proofe of certaine outward orders instituted for procuring remission and pardon of sins not without especiall mention of the priestes ministerie in euerie of the said actions Whereof Saint Paul speaketh to the Hebrewes in these wordes Omnia penè in sanguine mundari ac sine sanguinis effusione non esse remissionem That all things were in a manner clensed by blood and that no remission could be had without blood For so in the 17. of Leuiticus they were charged to absteine from drinking of blood because sanguis animalium propiaculo est the blood of beastes stood for an expiation and cleaning of sinnes And therefore amongst the diuers orders of sacrifice mentioned in the said booke of their ceremonies there be diuers expresse waies by sacrifice to purge mens sinnes some for the Priests sinnes other for the Princes and the third for the common peoples offences And one wait for their sinnes committed of ignorance an other for crimes wittinglie done Finallie some for thoughtes and other some for euill deedes with manie mo diuersities as you maie see in the said booke In all which it is euer expressed that the Priest is not onelie the minister in the said sacrifice as needes must be but also with offering of the said oblations for sinne that he must make praier especiallie for the offenders and euerie of them seuerallie that God maie pardon them of that sinne for which they offer their sacrifice For allwaies after the forme and manner of offering be prescribed according to the diuersitie of the peoples offences it is added Rogabitque pro eo sacerdos pro peccato eius dimittetur ei And the Priest shal pray for him and for his sinne and it shall be forgiuen him And againe Agat poenitentiam pro peccato offerat de gregibus agnam siue capram orabitque pro ea sacerdos pro peccatis eius Let the soule do penance and offer a kidde of the flock or an ewe lambe and so the priest shall praie for that soule and the sinnes thereof FVLKE That the ministery of man in al ages of the Church and externall sacraments haue beene instituted of God as well for the exercise os men in his worship as for the assurance of remission of their sinnes it is euermore confessed of vs and that now also the like be ordained since the comming of Christ in the flesh Wher fore your long discourse to prooue that we neuer denied is vaine except you meane it against the Anabaptistes Libertines Swinkfeldians and such other condemned heretikes That in all the sacrifices of the law that were appointed for sinne the priest is ordeined the minister not onelie to offer the sacrifice but also by praier to obteine remission of sinnes it must be referred vnto the onelie high Priest whereof the Iewish Priesthood sacrifices aultars c. were sacramentall figures and shadowes And therefore by that the Priests had then to do according to the law you do vnfitlie gather that the like is to be donne by Priests vnder the Gospell For that Iewish priesthood is wholie translated vnto our sauiour Christ who hath it perpetual and without anie passing from him to others The ministerie of the Gospel hath no sacrifices to offer for sinnes but to preach the onelie sacrifice of Christs death and the propitiation of our sinne by him and thereof to assure our infirmitie more plentifullie to deliuer vnto vs the seales of our iustification by faith instituted by God the sacraments of baptisme and the Lordes supper ALLEN All which doth not onelie couuince that Gods will was that remission of sinnes should be had by externall sacrifices penance and oblation and that not otherwise but by the priests mediationn but also that there was an order euen then often in thé olde law that man should vtter his sinnes with the greuousnes thereof and circumstances that according to the difference of the faultes the diuersitie of sacrifices and expiation might be vsed and that the priest seuerallie might praie for the remission thereof In all which doing I will not now dispute whether a carnall Iew that then had no further respect but to the present obseruation of those commaunded Ceremonies and sacrifices did obtaine therby remission of sins by which the soule is reconciled to God or els onelie a freedome from some temporal punishment due to the same by law amongst the people or otherwise by Gods appointment but moste sure it is that the spirituall sorte which from those sacrifices did not separate but include Christs blood in respect whereof all
their sacrifices had their force though not so full as ours now haue nor with so ample promise of Gods grace yet sure it is that they by faith in Christ and yet not without those obseruations which it was necessarie that they should then keepe were sanctified and purged verilie from their sinnes nor without the ministery of the priest whose praier and sacrifice was requisite for the same purpose Neither were all externall waies of Gods worship and remission of sinnes abrogated by the Gospell as some doe falselie faine but to the externall elements that now euen in the new law be instituted for grace and remission of sinnes Gods fauour is giuen and graunted a great deale more fullie and sanctification more plentifullie For els let vs with penance reiect baptisme and other waies of Gods seruice that be not onelie internall separated wholy from outward elements of water bread wine imposition of hands oile and such like which if they dare not do how can they anouch that God remitted not sinnes by externall sacraments or not by the handes of priesthood seeing without that order none of these holy actes can be duelie ministred Seeing then that allmightie God of his passing wisdome and carefull prouidence towards man hath remitted sinnes in all ages as by the ministerie of man in outward solemne ceremonies as by circumcision in the law of nature and by the same in Moses gouernment besides manie other sacrifices vsed and commaunded for diuers sinnes actual both greater and lesse how can it be otherwise but there should be sacraments ordeined in the new law first for remitting of originall sinnes and other of all sortes at our first entrance into Christs house then an other for more greeuous actual offences committed by relapse after baptisme For els the law should not fullie in figure fore shew the truth great grace of our sacraments to come whereof lightly by Gods appointment it did beare a plaine and expresse resemblance FVLKE Al this doth conuince that there was an order that man should confesse and acknowledge his sins before God but not in auricular confession to the Priestes but by the open act of sacrifising As for the vttering with the greeuousnes thereof and the circumstances whereby you wold make a resemblance of your popish shrift you finde not in the lawe anie thing by analogie whreof you might commend it Diuerse kindes of sacrifice indeed were appointed for diuerse states and persons of mé as for the high Priest the whole congregation the Prince or the priuat man but no difference in the same state or kinde of men of sinnes with the grieuousnes and circumstances thereof Leu. 4. Neuertheles by faith in Christ those sacrifices were seales and assurances vnto the godlie of remission of their sinnes as full as ours and with as ample promise of Gods grace as concerning the effect which was the saluation of their soules but not with so ful ample or cleare declaration of the effectual meanes thereof as we haue The ceremonies of the law were abrogated by the Gospell not that we should be without all ceremonies but that in stead of the multitude of darke obscure figures the goodnes of god hath bound the societie of the Christian people with sacraments in number the feewest in obseruation the easiest in signification the moste excellent as baptisme the sacrament of regeneration and the Lordes supper the sacrament of heauenlie and spirituall nourishment and preseruation in the same state of the children of God into which we are sacramentally incorporated by baptisme the onelie perpetuall sacraments commended and commaunded in the new Testament and which comprehend in them the whole mysterie of the dispensation of God for our eternall saluation by which is sealed vp vnto vs the doctrine of the remission of all our sinnes committed either before baptisme or after and of that naturall corruption wherein we are al borne conceiued which we call originall sin ALLEN But besides these for said sacrifices in which sinnes were after their manner remitted there was another vsuall act practized by the Priestes which did more properlie prefigur at and represent our sacrament of penance and the Priests authoritie in the new law concerning the iudgement of our soules and the exact discussing of our misdeedes For neither circumcision nor sacrifice of old had anie face of power iudiciarie and therefore could not exactlie represent our Priests power giuen them by Christ for the iudgement of our sinne But the authority giuen them by the law to discerne shut vp and seperat the leprous and vncleane persons from other the cleane of the people did plainly represent our sacrament of penance whereunto by the Doctors it is often resembled wherein order is taken the 13. and 14. of Leuiticus the authoritie and practize thereof being often alowed by our Master Christ who obserued the lawes so humblie therein that he alwaies after be had healed anie such seperated persons sent them for all that to the Priests afterward to offer their oblations prescribed by the lawe for the same And that this power pronouncing the leapers to be sound or sore to be seperated or admitted to the company of the faithful did represent the power of priesthood concerning the leprosie of our soules not onely S Bede but S. Chryso also doth declare For he talking of confession of sins to the Priest writeth thus Quamuis leprae immunditiam iuxtalegem sacerdoti pandamus atque ad eius arbitrium qualiter quanto tempore iusserit purificari curemus The vncleannes of the more grieuous leprosie he meaneth deadlie sinne let vs open to the Priest and according to his arbitrement howsoeùer he commaundeth vs let vs seeke to purifie our selues And. S Ierome Quomodo ergo ibi leprosum sacerdos mundum vel immundum fecit sic hîc alligat vel soluit Episcopus presbyter non eos qui insontes sunt velnoxy sed pro officio suo cùm peccate rum audierit varietates scit qui ligandus sit quine soluendus Looke therefore saith he how the Priest maketh there in the olde lawe a person cleane or vncleane so here doth the Bishopor Priest binde or loose not binding the innocent nor loosing the guiltie but when he hath heard the varietie and diuersitie of our sinnes then he knoweth whome to loose and whome to binde This place is verie plaine for confession and distinct rekening of euery of our mortall sinnes The which the holie Doctor prooueth to be necessarie because else the Priest of God could not doe iustice in punishing and pardoning but should of ignorance either bind the good or loose the wicked In which case almightie God that knoweth exactlie the worthines and vnworshines of all persons will not alowe the Priestes sentence that did proceed of ignorance but will himselfe giue iudgement according to the partics deseruing For the Priest is but a minister of his sacrament and not the Lord and instituter thereof he must
therefore conforme himselfe to Gods will whose place he there occupieth For as the Priest in the olde lawe could not make the cleane person to be vncleane no more can the Priest of the new lawe bind the innocent or absolue the person that continueth in sinne Neuertheles the Priest worketh more properly vnder god touching the remission of sinnes because he is appointed the minister of grace and reconciliation then the Priest in the olde lawe For there in the making of any man whole of the leprosie or other vncleanes the Priest had not to do at all but onelie when one was made whole by god it was the priestes office to discerne the same to shewe it vnto the people and to admit him againe into the fellowspip of theresidue after oblation made for that purpose For to them it was not said whome-soeuer you punish with leprosie or make vncleane or whome-soeuer you heale make cleane he shal be whole no such promise was made vnto them For it was enough that it might represent and haue resembling of our sacrament of penance and of the maruelouse authoritte giuen in the new law to our Priestes concerning the remission of sinnes For to ours it was not saide you shall discerne whome I haue loosed alreadie in heauen and shewe to the world whom I haue retained bound or not forgiuen in heauen but as Hilarie saith the Priests sentence is made preiudiciall to God in heauen not the Priestes forgiuing is first and then Gods afterward as two distinct actions in time but because the Priestes is prius quoad nos as the Philosophers doe tearme such thinges and by the Priestes worke which is plaine to vs we streight come to the knowledge of Gods like worke of remission in heauen which is prius natura because Gods action is the principall and mans must necessarily depend theron But eis both Gods worke and mans runne ioyntly together in remission of sins as al infirmental secondarie causes neuer make a seuerall action from the principal but they concur ioyntly to euery effect as it is most plaine in all sacraments whereby god worketh grace the which grace as it proceedeth from god so it commeth by mans seruice not by distinct operation of the principall and the seruing and secondarie causes but in one worke vndeuided operation of them both For in baptisme God worketh the remission of originall or actuall sinnes first and then sendeth the partie to the fount afterward that the Priest therein may declare what god hath wrought before or to worke the same againe that so the partie might haue a double grace of remission first by Ggd and then by the Priest for that were foolish to surmise But god by the Priests ministerie and the sacrament doth rewit sinnes so that the action hereof at once sitly may fall vpon them both FVLKE The power of remitting sinnes as you saie is often compared by the auncient Fathers to that authoritie which the priests of the old law had in discerning and pronouncing who were lepers and who were cleane which is to giue a sentence declaratorie to pronunce who was striken or healed by God not a proper power to strike or heale and yet the words of the lawe are that the Priest should make him cleane or vncleane meaning that he should so declare him with authoritie to be either seperated or receiued as the case required according to those directions and descriptions which he had in the lawe of God For though other men by the instruction of the law might descerne a leaper from a clean person yet no man had authority to put him out or to receiue him into the congregation but the Priest In citing the authoritie of Saint Bede and Saint Chrisostome you vse such confusion as I know not whose words you pretend to alledge sauing that Bede hath written vpon Saint lames epistle Chrisostome hath not In cyting therefore of Saint Bedes testimonie it may seeme that you follow some other mens dictates collection or notebooke and not your owne reading For Bedes wordes vpon that place of the 5. of Saint Iames are these differing both in wordes and sense from your allegation Si ergo infirmi in peccatis sint haec presbyteris ecclesiae confessi fuerunt ac perfecto corde ea relinquere atque emendare sategerint dimittentur eis Neque enim sine confessione emendationis peccata qucunt demitti unde recte subtungitur Confitemini ergo alterutrum peccata vestra orate pro inuicem saluemini In hac autem sententiailla debet esse discretio vt quotidiana leuiaque peccata alterutrum coaequalibus confiteamur corumque quotidiana credamus oratione saluari Porro grauioris leprae immunditiam iuxta legem sacerdoti pandamus atque ad eius arbitrium qualiter quanto tempore insserit purificari curemus Therefore if the sick be in sinnes and shal confesse them to the elders or priests of the Church and with perfect heart shall indeuour to forsake and amend them they shall be forgiuen to them For without the confession of amendment sinnes can not be forgiuen wherupon it is rightlie added Confesse therefore your sins one to an other that ye maie be saued Now in this sentence this diseretion ought to be that we confesse our daily light offences to our equalls one to another that we should beleeue that by their daily praier we are saued But the vncleanes of the more greeuous Leprosie according to the law let vs open to the priest according to his arbitrement how and how long time he shall commaunde let vs haue regard to be purified In this testimonie of Saint Bede though I doe not altogether allow his iudgement and euerie man may see how he restreineth in some case to the priest that which the Apostle speaketh of confessing one to another in all cases mutual offered yet we may see his sentence contrary to your citation quamuis Leprae c. although you haue amended it in your translation Also that it is confession acknowledging or purposing of amendment that Saint Bede counteth necessarie for them that shall obteine remission of their sinnes and not a particular declaration of all sinnes counted in a priests eare Thirdlie that the text of Saint Iames is to be vnderstood directlie of mutuall confession of one man to an other although in cases of greeuous sinnes he allude to the law of Leprosie In translating the place ofIerome you render for peccatorum sinnes where you should rather translate it sinners that peccatorum may be the antecedent to the relatiue that followeth but as for auricular confession or distinct reckoning of euerie of our particuler mortall sinnes this place maketh nothing in the worlde as verie plaine as you say it is The reason you adde of doing iustice in punishing or pardoning is of your owne imagination For Ierome saith that by hearing the diuersitie of sinners speaking of them that haue openly offéded and finding some to be penitent
no fault found with his sentence of the Priestes power in binding and loosing Gratian also declareth that learned and religious men in his time were in diuerse opinions about that point and other concerning this popish sacrament of penance whereby it appeareth that the sentence which you holde was not accounted Catholike nor vniuersallie receiued in their times If Peter Lumbard the Master of the sentences was deceiued by the sayings of Saint Ierome and S. Augustine they were first deceiued themselues for other sense out of their sayings then the master of the sentences gathereth no reasonable man can conclude And it is but one onelie saying of S. Augustine that he citeth not diuers and not onely out of Augustine and Hierome but out of other writers also as Ambrose and Cassiodorus and Gratian citeth maniemore all which you must answere if you wil take part against the two principall posts of poperie Gratiane and Lumbard with all them that take their part But you thinke one saying of Chrysostome inough to wipe awaie all their authorities and reasons and to prooue that the priestes of the new lawe doe purge the fitlh of the soull and not onely declare it to be purged as the Priestes of the olde lawe did of the leprosie of the body The meaning of Chrysostome is that the Ministers of the Gospell haue power not onelie to pronounce declare the penitent sinner to be deliuered from the vncleanes of his soule vnto other men that he may be accepted into the congregation if he haue bene excluded but to assure the penitents conscience in Gods name of the remission of their sinnes wherein he doth much more for the benefit of his soule then the priest of the olde law who onelie declared vnto other men how the partie was to be taken who knew in himselfe whether he were sicke or healed before he came to the priest Therefore where Chrysostome saith It is graunted vnto the priests of the new testament not onelie to trie approoue the soule to be deliuered of the filihines thereof but altogether to deliuer it he meaneth of deliuering by assuring the conscience of the penitent sinner of Gods mercie and forgiuenes whereby he is throughly or altogether deliuered therfrom whereas otherwise it were blasphemous conrrarie to Chrysostomes iudgement in many other places if the wholl act of purging or deliuering the soull from filthines were ascribed to man as the words seeme to sounde ALLEN Now vpon all this foresaid declaration it maie be well vnderstood that our aduersaries haue small reason in reprehending the ordinance of God who is prooued in all ages and diusities of lawes to haue giuen grace and remission of sinnes not onelie by externall elementes and actions of diuerse ceremonies sacraments and sacrifices but also euer to haue dispensed the said benefites by mans seruice and ministerie without all dishonour of his personage or diminishing his owne proper interest and right therein And so much more hath he vsed in the new law of the Gospell the ministerie of the priests and externall sacraments to the procuring of the saied benefites by how much more our law our sacraments our sacrifices and our priests be glorified and preferred in respect of the olde and haue the more abundant blessing of the spirit and Christs blood which by these conduites most largelie flowe to all mens fouls that despise not the blessed benefit thereof Yet if they will not be satisfied herewith because they surmise our new law to be so spirituall that man may looke for nothing at mans handes but all immediatelie of God and his spirit for by him they will be taught the meaning of the scripture by him they will be baptized by him they must haue remission and absolution and at length they are become Anabaptistes and refuse to obey Prelates of the Church and Princes of the world because by God they wil onelie be ruled and punished for their offences Against such proud cogitations as Saint Augustine tearmeth them God hath purposelie to teach humilitie and obedience one to another both in temporal causes and especiallie in spirituall matters perteining to mens sinnes and soules he hath I saie for the nonst not onelie instituted these waies of baser creatures vsed in the sacraments to atteine his grace by but also hath made man the master almost and executor of his meaning in the same whose seruice he vseth so much for our saluation that he sticked not to send his most chosen and dearest euen of those daies of grace and plentifulnes of the spirit to be instructed by man and made readie for his ministerie no otherwise but by man A strange thing surelie and to be well noted for this purpose not onelie of our aduersaries for their confusion but of the good studious readers for their instruction how that Paul beeing prostrate and miraculouslie called by Iesus Christes owne voice was yet sent by Christ himselfe to confirme the authority of his priests to Ananias of him to receiue as well instructions as the sacraments of the Church for his incorporation to the faithfull and remission of his sinnes paste And againe that Cornelius though his praiers were heard and his almes acceptable to god an Angel sent vnto him to declare the same which was a signe of high reputatiō was yet charged to goe to Peter of him not onelie to receiue the sacraments but a so by his instruction to learne what to beleeue what to hope what to loue saith S. Austine The Eunuch might by god himselfe in his owne coun try haue bene schooledor sanctified yet it pleased his maiesty so to vse the matter that by Philip both the sense of scripture the sacrament of Baptisme should be vnderstanded receiued at once So hath God in all ages confirmed the authoritie of his holie priests and ministers so hath he euer checked by his owne holie examples the presumptuous temptation of man who euer hath disdained mans office and ministerie for his owne saluation Therefore let no man maruell why Christ hath giuen authoritie to man to forgiue sinnes seeing he hath from the beginning not remitted ordinarilie otherwise then by mans seruice nor any way ells for the moste parte but by externall acts of ceremonies sacraments and sacrifices that we may learne thereby humility obedience to Gods ordinance by the warrant whereof they all as I haue prooued challenge all manner of interest in the gouernment of our soules FVLKE That God by externall sacraments and by the ministerie and seruice of man hath dispensed his spiritual benefits it is prooued but so that his grace was neuer bound either to the one or to the other but that he maie and hath bestowed the same most freelie according to the good pleasure of his will The fansie of the Anabaptistes that would seeme to looke for all thinges immediatlie from God despising the sacráments and ministerie of man we abhor and detest no lesse then
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euerie man that hath but small knowledge in the tongue doth know to signifie and require a mutual confession aswell as a mutuall praier of one man for another But yet let vs examine what your authorities doe containe First Origen in the place by you cited speaketh not a word of this text confesse your offences one to another but only of the two verses going before For making seauen meanes of remitting of sinnes after his corrupt vnpure manner of teaching By baptisme by martyrdome by almes by forgiueing one another by conuerting of sinners by aboundance of charitie he addeth the seauenth in these wordes Est adhuc septima licet dura laboriosa perpaenitentiam remissio peccatorum cum lauat peccator in lachrimis stratum suum fiunt ei lachrima suae pánes die nocte Et cùm non erubescit sacerdoti Domini indicare peccatum suum quaerere medicinam secundùm eum qui ait Dixi pronunciabo aduersum me iniustitiam meam Domino tu remisisti impietatem cordis mei in quo impletur illud quod Apostolus dicit si quis autem insirmatur vocet Presbyteror Ecclesiae imponant ei manus vngentes eum oleo in nomine Domini oratio fidei saluabit 〈◊〉 si in peccatis fuerit remittentur ei There remaineth yet the seauenth kinde of remission of sins although it be verie harde and painfull by repentance When the sinner washeth his bed in teares and his teares are made vnto him breade daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the Priest of the Lorde and to seeke medicine acording to him which saith I haue said I will pronounce against my selfe my owne vnrighteousnes vnto the Lord and thou hast forgiuen me the vngodlines of my heart In which also that is fullfilled which the Apostle saith if anie man be diseasedl et him call the Elders of the Church let them lay hands vpon him anoynting him with oile in the name of the Lord and the praier of faith shall saue the diseased and if he shal be in sinnes they shal be forgiuen vnto him Thus much writeth Origen Now it is to be vnderstood that after his manner he alligorizeth vpon the sacrifices of the lawe comparing these meanes of remission to them And lest you should thinke that by declaring of sinne to the Priest of the Lord he doth meane confession to a popish priest he himselfe expoundeth before whom he meaneth by this Priest In morali loco potest pontisex isse esse sensus pietatis religionis videri qui in nobis per orationem obsecrationes quas Deo fundimus velut quodam sacerdotio fungitur In morall place this high Priest may seeme to be the sense of godlines religion which within vs by praiers and supplications which we powre forth to God exerciseth as it were a certaine priesthood And so likewise he taketh the place of Saint Iames alligoricallie as his application of the seauenth waie of remission vnto the Iudaicall sacrifice doth declare Si autem in amaritudine fletus fueris luctu lachrimis lamentatione confect us si carnem tuam maceraueris 〈◊〉 ac multa abstinentia aridam feceris dixeris quia sicut frixorium confrixa sunt ossa mea tunc sacrificium similam à sartagine vel à craticula obiulisse te 〈◊〉 But if thou hast bene in the bitternes of weeping consumed with sorowe teares and lamentation if thou hast afflicted thy slesh and made it drie with fasting and much abstinence and said my bones are fried as a frying pane or a fire thing then knowe that thou hast offered in sacrifice flower of the frying panne or of the gredeyorn Origen therefore giueth a colour in words but no substance in matter vnto this popish confession Concerning the opinion and authoritie of Bede touching this matter I haue spoken before but by the circumstance of the letter you saie it may well appeere that the Apostle speaketh of sacramentall confession to be made to gods priests How so I praie you forsooth Because he had there willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to anoynt them and streight after addeth this text of confession and praying ouer the sicke A simple reason god wot because priests were spoken of in an other matter therefore none but priests may be vnderstoode in that which followeth nay rather the circumstances make against auricular confession and popish anointing also For what needes more priests then one to be sent for to other of those popish purposes or what papist sendeth for more although there be neuer so manie priests in the Church But the companie of elders in the primitiue Church being chosen of the moste replenished with heauenly graces that were in the congregatiō both for the gift of healing for praier to be made ouer the sick man were most conuenient to be sent for But it is in vaine by couller of anie circumstances to restraine the confession to priestes when the verie wordes of the letter as you call the text doe make it generall and mutual and therefore here was no cause for Luther to denie the authoritie of the epistle or for anie other to corrupt the text But where you count it a corruption to writ in stead of send for the priestes of the Church this call for the Elders of the congregation you doe either abuse the ignorant of willfull malice to make them thinke the sounde of words being changed the sense is anie thing altered or else you ignorantlie quarell about the translation which is word for word out of the originall greeke into English as no man meanelie learned in that tongue can doubt It is not the sounde of the wordes you rehearse that troubleth vs for we both like and vse them in their right sense our selues but it sufficeth you to haue an accidentall sounde when you cannot sinde a substantiall reason of your popish ceremonies and sacraments in the holie scriptures ALLEN But that thou maiest see good Christian reader the necessity of confession the better and that it is not growne to such a generall practize and opinion of necessitie vpon anie charge giuen by man or positiue lawes marke well with me that it dependeth directlie vpon Christes owne wordes whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you doe retaine they be retained And therefore sacramentall confession to be of Christes institution For if Christ gaue power to Priestes to forgiue or retaine mens sinnes then there must needes be some subiect to their power iudgement else in vaine were so long a confession of binding and lossing mens sinnes if the right of the power did not necessarilie charge all men that haue such sinnes to be subiect to their binding and loosing Therefore this is a cleare case that in the verie 〈◊〉 wordes that the power was deliuered vnto them the bond of obedience was also perscribed
to vs. So that after that daie no sinnes mortal could ordinariely be loosed but by theÌ„ that sacrament which in their ministery he then did institute FVLKE Now you come towarde the point when you promis to let vs see how your popish confession is of Christes institution It dependeth you saie directly vpon Christes owne wordes whose sinnes you doe forgiue c. That would we faine see how For you your selfe though you make a very disorderly syliogisme cannot tel which way to infer it vpon your premises But thus you reason If Christ gaue power to Priestes to forgiue or retaine sinnes then there must needes be some subiect to their power and iudgement I answere you that euery power draweth not a iudgement with it and therefore you foist in the word iudgement vnreasonablie although I graunt also a kinde of iudgement vnto them and that men are subiect to this power and iudegment of the ministers by whome is declared the infallible sentence of God Then saie you it is a cleare case that in the verie same words that power was deliuered to them the bond of obedience was also prescribed to vs. Of what obedience I pray you that we should obay them in any thing they shal speake or only when they speake in the word of the Lord If the latter only for no man wil graunt the former shew vs if you be able the Lords word and commaundement for sacramental confessoÌ„ as you terme it to be necessary Your conclusion hangeth as wel by your premises as confession dependeh vpon Christs words That after that date no sins mortall could ordinarilie be loosed 〈◊〉 by them and in that sacrament which in their ministery he then did institute All sin is mortall and deseruing death The wages of sinne saith the Apostle is death But your conclusion is confuted by your selfe afterward graunting sinnes to be remitted by baptisme and as for other sacraments I dare saie you will not exempt them but that sinnes are forgiuen by them And that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie namelie that a sacrament was there and then instituted you alwaies affirme but neuer are able to prooue And whereas you affirme that the necessitie of auricular confession standeth not vpon positiue lawes but by Christes institution it is maruell that this institution should so manie hundreth yeares be vnknowne in the Church The Master of the sentences can saie nothing for it but alledgeth diuers authorities to and froe and in the end hath no certaine argument to perswade vs that it is of Christes institution Gratian likewise in his decrees after diuers testimonies producted on both sides whether it be necessarie or no concludeth in these words Quib authoritatibus vel quibuslibetrationum firmamentis vtroque sententia satisfactionis confessionis innitatur in medium breuiter exposuimus cui autem harum 〈◊〉 adhaerendum sit 〈◊〉 is iudicio referatur viraque enim 〈◊〉 habet sarientes religi osor viros Vpon what authorites and what fundations of reasons both the iudgement of satisfaction and confession doth leane we haue briefely brought forth and declared But to whether of these we ought chieflie to sticke it is reserued to the iudgement of the reader for either of both opinions hath wise and religious men fauorers of it If the Romish Church in Gratianstime had receiued the opinion of the necessitie of shrift to a Priest to be grounded vpon the institution of Christ neither he nor the Master of the sentences would haue bin in such a mamering about it wherfore it appeereth to be but young ware the institution whereof was so vncertaine to those principal pillers of popery In so much that the glosse vpoÌ„ the 5. aistinct In penitentia was bolde to vtter these wordes which should haue prooued him an heretike if the popish Churh in his time had held that confession was of Christs institution and not vpon any positiue laws In hac distinctione in aliis duabus sequentibus agitur 〈◊〉 de illa parte poenitentiae que dicitur oris confessio operis satisfactio quà m de aliis ider videndum est 〈◊〉 oris confessio fuerit instituta virum necessaria sit vel 〈◊〉 voluntaria qualiter sit facienda cui et quando dicunt quidam institutam fuisse in Paradiso 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 peccatum dicente Donino ad Adam Adam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ideo enim 〈◊〉 vt ipso conficente peccatum 〈◊〉 sorma aliis in posterum confitendi Sed quoniam in ille interrogatione dominus minùs expressè videbatur adconfirendum 〈◊〉 idro post exquisiuit á Cain fratricida expressiâ—s vbi est Abel frater tuus Alij dicunt quód sub lege primò instituta quando Iosua percepit Aâ—hor â—rimen sâ—um confiteri â—â— lapidatus est 45. dist secundum illud Alij dicunt quód in Novo testamento á Iacobo dicente consitemini alterâ—â—â—um peccata vestra c. Sed melius dicitur eam institutam fuisse a quâ—dâ—m vniuersale Ecclesiae traditione potius quám ex nouo vel veteri testamento authoritâ—s traditio Ecclesiae obligatoria est vt preceptum ait 1.1 di in his rebus Ergo necessaria est confessio in mortalib apud nos apud graecos non quoniam non emanauit apud illos traditio talis 〈◊〉 nec confisiunt in 〈◊〉 sed in firmentatis 5. di cap. 1. si illud ergo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alteruâ—rum peccata vestra 〈◊〉 consilium primó aliâ—â—uin liâ—oret et Grecos non obstanto eorâ—â— consuetudine In this distinction and the other two that follow it is intreated as well of that part of penance that is called confession of the mouth and satisfaction of the worke as of other partes And therefore it is to be seene when confession of the mouth was instituted whether it be necessarie or onelie voluntarie How it is to be made and to whome when Some say it was instituted in paradise immediately after sin committed when the Lord saide vnto Adam Adam where are thou for therefore he enquired that he confessing his sinne a forme of confessing should be giuen to others afterwarde But because in that confession the Lord secmed not so expresselie to haue warned him to confession therefore he enquired afterward of Cain the murtherer of his brother more expresselie where is Abel thy brother Other say it was first instituted vnder the law where Iosua commaunded Achar to confesse his fault and he was stoned 45. di sed illud Other saie that it was instituted in the new Testament by Saint Iames saying confesse your sinnes c. But it is better to saie that it was institutad by a certaine vniuersal tradition of the Church rather then by authoritie out of the new or olde testament And the tradition of the Church is of authoritie to binde as it is commaunded ar 11. di in these things Therefore confession in mortal sinnes is necessarie with vs but not with the Greekes because such tradition hath
such a sacrament and of auriculer confession as necessarie ALLEN Moreouer the sacrifices of the olde law were in manie cases done by the Priestes as well for priuate sinnes as open which could not be without the confession of the penitent ergo much more the secrets of our soules be subiect to our Priestes to whom Christ hath giuen all iudgement Yet all this notwithstanding there be some that keepe them-selues by vaine excuse of sinne from the verie principall point and pith of this sacrament which is the particuler examination of a mans sinnes committed by thought word or worke and will yet draw back and holde that a generall confession is enough with tearmes vniuersall acknowledgeing a mans selfe to haue sinnes by minde word and deede though he expresse not the seuerall pointes thereof But this opinion is confuted both by all the fore said reasons and other as a moste absord and wilfull maintenance of sinne For by this rule he that killed and murdered thousandes should confesse no more after his wicked actes then before nor no more then the innocentest man that liueth Dauids weeping and confession should haue beene one after his double deadlie sinne committed as before in his innocencie Peter should not haue more bitterlie went after his for saking of his master then before Neither should our confession then pertaine more to our selues then to other who by like generall clauses maie truelie make the like and the same confession as it is now in the Church of England But the holie King Dauid confessed not sinnes common to him selfe and other men but my sinne my wickednes my impietie saith he and this in confessing to God that know alreadie his sinnes How much more now where Gods iudgement is exercised by man that can not discerne our faultes him selfe must we confesse our sinnes that he maie rightlie iudge thereof FVLKE The sacrifices of the olde law did in deede containe a confession of sinne but no particuler declaration vnto the priest of anie sin committed in secret therfore your conclusion is naught as also it is blasphemous that you saie therein that Christ hath giuen to your priestes all iudgement But confession by a generall clause you do not allow to be sufficient to saluation not answerable to Christes meaning I praie you sit at the length bring forth those words of Christ by which you know his meaning so well that you dare deny saluation to them that make not a particuler confession to a priest By this rule you saie the murtherer of thousands should confesse no more then the innocentest man aliue verily to a priest he is no more bound to confesse his murthers then an innocent man his lester trespasses But as anie mans sinnes are more heinous and greeuous so ought he to bewaile and lament the same more earnestlie before God So did Dauid and Peter after their seuerall and greeuous falles not to enforme God which knew their sinnes more exactlie then they could make confession of them but to stirre vp themselues to more earnest hartie sorrow and repentance for them That Gods iudgement is so exercised by priests as you meane you must first prooue after vse for an argument or els you begge and gette nothing ALLEN Penance must be donne for euery of our sinnes So Peter prescribed Simon the sorcerer when he attempted to haue bought the gift of Goddes Spirit that he should doo penance for that especiall greeuous crime Poenitentiam age saith he ab hac nequitia tua Doe penance for this thy wicked attempte if perchaunce God will forgiue thee this abhominable intent The man was baptised not long before and then no such Penance was prescribed for his most greeuous and blasphemous practises of Nicromancie and witchcrafte long exercised before Wherein this naughty pack Simon Magus is a thousand partes more religious then our newe maisters For he desired the Apostles to pray to God for him that this sinne might be forgiuen him where these care no more for the priest or Apostle concerning their sinnes then they doo for dogges Againe Saint Paule did not onely confesse his sinnes by a generall clause but acknowledged his owne sinnes wherein he in his owne person had offended he confessed he was of al sinners the greatest that he had obteined commission to attache them that beleeued in Christes name and so forth Such as were faithfull also at Ephesus as we reade in the 19. of the Actes came to the Apostles Et confitebantur actus suos and confessed their actes and misdees In so much that certaine which had followed vnlaufull artes as Magike Nicromancie and such like curiositie confessed their faultes and burned their bookes before all the people FVLKE We must be poenitent for al and euerie of oursinnes that we know or can call to minde but that penance must be enioyned by a Priest as you meane for euerie sinne let vs see how you can prooue it S. Peter prescribed Simon Magus that he should do penance for that greeuous crime Therfore penance must be done for eucrie of our sinnes Although the antecedent were true yet the consequence is naught penance must be done for one open and hainous sinne ergo for all secret sinnes But I denie that anie such penance as you meane was enioyned vnto him by Peter But that he exhorted Simon to repentance if he looked to haue any forgiuenes of his sinnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 repent saith he or change thy minde from this thy wickednes and not as you translate for this thy wickednes as though repentance were a satisfaction for his sin Moreouer I answere you vse not to enioyne penance before men haue confessed their sinne But when Peter exhorted Simon to repent he had not yet confessed his sinne but was a couetous hipocrite 〈◊〉 you dissent from your pupills of Rhemis which denie that doing of pennance was prescribed to men before they were baptized For they translate agite panitentiam as well before baptisme as after to do penance satisfaction for sinne Where you saie that your new maislers care no more for the Priest or Apostle concerning their sinnes then they do for degges it is a saucic Censure of a dogged Papist For they whome you scorne do reuerence all the ministers of God as well in the power they haue to remitte sinnes as also in al other partes of their office An other argument on haue of Saint Pauls example who confessed his owne sinnes and namelie the greatest of persecuting the Church of Christ. Yea but not his secret sinnes to a priest but his open faultes before his conuersion and Baptisme And so likewise they that beleeued Act. 19 made open confession of some of their deuilish practizes committed before they were Christians and in detestation of their former wickednes and signe of true repentance burned their bookes to a great value ALLEN If the priestes had nothing elles to doe with oursins but as they had in the olde lawe to doo with
the leprous persons that is to say should onely discerne which were by God remitted or not remitted they could not that doo excepte they sawe the varietie of the saide sinnes by mans confession But now seeing they haue further interest in our matters and must properly both pardon and giue iust penaunce for sinne how is it possible they should doo this without exacte knowlege of entry of oure greeuous offences In deed a general confession such as is often made in diuine seruice to God or his priestes such as be Catholik doth some times take away the common infirmities of our sinfull life that our light trespasses be not imputed to vs or such as we haue so forgotten that we cannot by anie conuenient search call againe to our remembrance But other greater crimes and deadly sinnes for which the sacrament of discipline was instituted and the priestes iudgement seat erected in the Church are not discharged before God without seuerall contrition and distinct confession with readie in tent of the penitent to accomplish such fruites of penance as by the priest shall be appointed for the satisfying for his sinnes And what a marucilous disorder is brought into Christes Church by plaine flatterie of our selues herein whiles we holde that this generall confession is sufficient we see by experience of these our euill daies where there is now put no difference betwixt small offenders and most greeuous sinners no diuersitie of penance no more sorrow in one then in other no confession of the most wicked no more then of the smallest sinner or most honest liuer A common murtherer a filthie whoremunger a dailie drunkerd a false robber a greedie extorcioner confes as litle do as litle penance lament as litle yea a great deale lesse then the honest sort of people do for much more small and fewer faultes All men repose them-selues now of daies so much in Christes passion and there onelie no faith that they will neither confesse to God nor man neither sigh nor sorrow nor do satisfaction for their sinnes Well let all men be assured that God in the next world will not go by general Chapters but will haue an accompt of all our proper works and misdeedes till it come to our idle words and vaine thoughtes The which iudgement because Gods Church and ministers sentence to whome Christ gaue all iudgement of our sinnes in earth doth most cleerelie resemble we maie be out of doubt that the like particular discussing and examination of our owne selues here before his ministers must needes be had that we be not iudged of our Lord in the life to come FVLKE By seeing the varietie of sinnes though the Priest could see them as clearlie as he that committed them yea though he were present at the doing of them and did see all the circumstances of them he could neuer discerne which were by God remitted or not remitted except he could see the repentance of the sins according to which God doth either remitte or retain sinnes Therefore confession to this purpose is neither necessarie nor profitable For the further interest you claime you must bring better euidence then he therto you haue shewed forth or els we maie neuer yeelde it vnto you And greatlie I maruaile how you can affirme that the Priest can properlie pardon sinne when he can not to anie man pronounce pardon of his sinne except he be true lie contrite and penitent before god God onelie and the partie penitent are priuy to the con trition of his heart which in an Hipocrit with a thousand confessions maie be dissembled And I trow you will not saie that without vnfained contrition of the heart the priest maie pardon a sinner The doctrine of your masters is but with condition if the partie be contrite without counterfayting therefore he that can not pardon absolutely can much les pardon properlie Where you make generall confession auailable either for small and light offences or else for greater sinnes forgotten you speake without proofe and therefore your authoritite may be denied without doubt The disorder you speake of for lacke of shrift was greater when most mé went to shrift and not fearing the iugdement seat of God and thought they were sufficientlie discharged of their sinnes if they had powred them out into a priests lape or friers coule God be praised they that repose them selues moste in Christs passion and by the merites thereof beleeue to receiue forgiuenes of sinnes by faith in his bloode are more ready to confesse their vnworthines both before God man then any popish hypocrite that trusteth in the merit of his workes and his owne satisfaction for his sinnes and doe more sigh and sorrow for their sinnes although they be such as mans lawe cannot punish although they were knowne then they that whisper halfe an hower in a priestes eare for the sinnes of one whole yeare whereas one howers offences if they were particularie called to minde and repeated would aske longer time to confesse them We know that in the next world God will haue an account of al our misdeeds euen to our idle words thoughts therfore our wholl life ought to be a continuall meditation and profession of repentance yet we know by his word and assurance ofhis spirit that the same infinit multitude heape of our sinnes shal not be laid to our charge because out sauiour Christ is the lambe of God that hath taken them awaie and satisfied the iustice of God for them That Christ hath giuen al iudgement of our sinnes in earth to his Church and the ministers thereof you often affirme thereupon build vp your court of confession but by what wordes this may be prooued you are neuer able to shew For that text whose sinnes you forgiue c. imporeth no such manner of iudgement but an authoritie to pronunce a sentence declaratorie of Gods mercie in pardoning all them that trulie repent and of his iustice in punishing all them that obstinatly refuse the grace of God offered in the preaching of the Ghospel The examining iudgeing of our selues whch the Apostle requireth that we be not iudged of the Lord vrgeth vs not to commit our selues to the examination iudgement of othermen but to a diligent discussing of our owne conscience before god that we come not with hypocrisie or without dew regard of his presence and benefites to the participation of his sacraments ALLEN And this particular discussing Saint Paull meant when he commended vnto the Corinthians and by them commaunded all Christian men to prooue trie and iudge themselues especiallie afore the receipt of the blessed sacrament of Christes bodie and blood which requireth moste puritie of life in the receiuer that can be For to attempt to receiue the holie bodie of Christ before we haue in contrite manner confessed our selues and purged our consciences by the iudgement of Christes Church of the guilt of deadlie sinne is exceeding damnable to vs and much dishonour to
to any other creature vnder God but also maketh the priestes to be as well the iudges as surgeons of our soules as to whome the searching the cutting the burning the hard griping the opening or the closing of our woundes and sores of conscience doth apperteine In all which cases he saith Quî igitur phramacum ei morbo adhibere quis possit cuius genus nequaquam intelligat How should a man salue that sore the nature and kinde whereof he knoweth not and to know it without confession of the partie is not possible For the things within a man none knoweth but the spirit which is in man And truelie said the Countie Bonifacius to Saint Augustine Ipse sibi denegat curam qui suam medico non publicat causam He hindereth his owne health that will not vtter his disease and the cause thereof to his Phisitian And further if you will be assured of the said Chrysostomes minde touching confession read his exposition vpon the wordes of the institution of this sacrament and of Christes breathing the holie Ghost vpon his Disciples for their power to remit sinnes Where he declareth that these holie things committed to the priests charge doe properlie apperteine to God by whose speciall grace we obteine remission euen then when the priest doth absolue vs where he also expresseth the verie manner of the Church in giuing absolution till this daie saying that the priest doth but as you would saie lende his voice and his hande Signifiyng that the manner was then as it is yet to speake the wordes of absolution and laie the hande vpon the penitents heade in the sacrament of penance So in sense saith Saint Chrysostome FVLKE Whosoeuer list to read that booke shall finde nothing in the worlde to prooue his iudgement for the necessitie of auricular confession but rather who so list to see Chrysostomes iudgement of the necessitie of shrift let him consider what we haue cited out of his writings in the last section For in this place by you cited he speaketh not of confession but of the difficulty of a Priests office as I haue shewed before to exact more knowledge and diligence of them because it is harder to be a shepheard of men then of beastes For the diseases of beastes maie moste commonlie be seene and they compelled to take the remedie the diseases of men are harde and sometimes impossible to be knowne and no waie either to compell men to discouer them or to receiue medicine for them Whereas if confession were a necessarie institu tion of God he might haue aptlie brought it forth in this place to shew what waie the spirituall shephearde hath to vnderstand the diseases of his sheepe His wordes are these after he hath spoken of the bodelie shephearde and his sheepe But the diseases of man first it is not easie for a man to see For no man knoweth those things that perteine to man but the spirit of man which is within him How wherefore should a man vse a medicine for that disease the manner whereof he knoweth not yea manie times he cannot know whether a man be sicke But when that is made manifest he hath more dissicultie about him For he can not heale all men with so great power as the shephearde doth his sheepe For there he may binde him restraine him of meate burne him cut him But here the power to receiue health lieth not in him that offereth the medicine but in the sicke person For this that wonderfull man saw when he saide to the Corinthians not that we are Lordes of your faith but we are helpers of your ioye And moste of all it is not required in Christians by force to reforme the transgressions of them that sinne But the forreine iudges when they take malefactors vnder the lawes doe shew great power ouer them and restreine them against their will to vse the same manners But here not by compulsion but by perswasion we must make such a one better for there is no such power giuen vs by the laws to restreine sinnes neither if the lawes gaue such power haue we where to vse it seeing God crowneth not them which of necessitie abstaine from wickednes but them that voluntaryly refraine from it Therfore there is neede of great cunning that they which are sicke may be perswaded willingly to submit themselues vnto the healing of the Priestes Thus much Chrysostome nothing fauouring the necessitie of auricular confession but rather denying any means wherby the inward disease of a man may be knowne except it be by voluntarie not extorted cōfession The countie Boniface speaketh of a publike fact which he cōmitted in taking a mā by force out of the Church for which he was suspended by S. Augustine vntil he did acknowledge his fault and shew him selfe penitent Therefore his saying can not be drawne to the necessitie of auricular shrift Neither doth Chrisostome vpon the 20. of Iohn declare anie iudgement or opinion that he thought it necessarie for a man to shriue himselfe to a Priest And where you vrge his wordes that the Priest doth lend his voice and his hands it is to farre of to prooue that it is necessarie for euery man to confesse al his secret faults to a Priest But I will set downe all that he saith in that place least anie man which hath not or can not vnderstand the booke may suspect there is further matter contained thererein toward this purpose then in deed there is Magna enim dignit as sacerdotum Quorumounque c. For great is the dignitie of Priestes Whose sinnes you shall remit saith he they are remitted Wherefore Paule saide Obey your gouernours and be subiect to them that you maie doe them the greatest honour For thou lookest to thine owne matter which if thou hast well ordered there is none other charge laide vpon the. The priest if he doe dispose his owne life and haue not diligentlie cared for thine he shall be thrust with the vngodlie into 〈◊〉 and sometime he is not damned for his owne deedes but for ours except he doe all things that perteine vnto him Therefore seing you see the greatnes of the daunger embrace them with much beneuocence which Paule also signified saying They doe watch as those which shall giue an account of your soules and therefore they are much to be looued But if you shal insult against them you shal not dispose your own things wel For so long as the master of the ship is of good cheereful minde the Mariners also are in quiet But if he begin to be hated of thē to be greeued he cannot likwise watch nor exercise his cunning being greeued against his will he shall trouble them with manie euills Euen so the priest if he shall see that the reuerence due to him is performed by vs he shall be able to gouerne vs well But if you shall kill him weakning his handes although he be of neuer so great
well as of anie other on whome handes were laide but of the sacrament of penance he speaketh not there or else where in all his workes nor of the necessitie of confessing of secret sinnes to a Priest ALLEN But to go forward in our matter Saint Basill a greeke writer also doth euidentlie shewe both his meaning and his Churches practise touching confession both often els namelie where he saith vpon the occasion of a question mooued touching that matter thus Necessarium est vt iis fiat confessio peccatorum quibus dispensatio mysteriorum Dei 〈◊〉 est Nam hoc pacto qui olim inter sanctos poenitentiam egerunt fecisse reperiuntur It is necessarie saith he that our confession should be made to them to whom God hath credited the disposing bestowing of his holy mysteries For so the Saints did penance as we reade And he alledgeth more that penance was vsed speciall sorowfulnes for sinnes with some kinde of confession of sinnes in baptisme how much more then must we now vse the same where it is more required where Christ hath instituted a Sacrament to that end to remit suines committed by relapse after Baptisme And in deed the custome of Iohn the Baptist prooueth that there was a kinde of confession necessarie or at the least conuenient before the institution of this Sacrament For the Euangelisten doe saie Baptizabantur ab eo in Iordane confitentes peccata sua Men were baptized of him in Iordane and made confession of their sinnes So that Iohn maie seeme to haue prepared the waie to Christes doctrine and Sacraments not onely by his baptisme but also by the vsing of the people to confess their faultes and yet it is not necessarie that his vsage of penance should be of like force or shoulde containe an exact conconfession of euerie sinne as the institution of Christ afterward did include no more then this Baptisme maie be thought to be fullie answerable either in manner of vsage or force and efficacie to the holie sacrament of Baptisme by Christ instituted for the office of the newe lawe And in an other place the saide S. Basill treateth how young Nuns and holie sacred Virgens should confesse themselues And in an other place he admonisheth all men to be circumspect in choice of their ghostlie father by whose sentence sinnes ought with singuler discretion to be iudged or examined Whereby it is most manifest that confession to the priestes was vsed and counted necessarie in his daies FVLKE You saie well that S. Basill speaketh vpon occasion of a question that was mooued touching this matter which question if it had pleased you to set downe Saint Basill shoulde haue serued you for no shew or colour of the necessitie of shrifte or confession of priuate offences The question is this O 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that is willing to confesse his sinnes whether ought be to confesse them to all men whatsoeuer they be or to certain men By which question it is manifest that cōfession was not necessary but voluntarie But if anie man will make confession S. Basill saith he ought to do it to them to whome the dispensation of Gods mysteries is committed For so they which repented of olde time are found to haue done vnto the holie men for it is written in the Gospell that they confessea ' their sins to Iohn the Baptist in the Actes of the Apostles all men confessed to them by whome they were baptized And we acknowledge as much that if any man will confesse his secret sinnes to be partaker of spirituall counsell and comfort for quieting of his conscience he may ought to confesse the same to them to whome the dispensation of Gods mysteries are committed But what is this for the necessitie of enumeration of all sinnes vnto a priest The same Basill in the Hom. 21. vpon Psal. 37. acknowledgeth in the person of Dauid confession to God alone to be sufficient yea the secret groning of the heart without moouing of lippes or vttering anie wordes to suffice In the 110. question for which you haue placed question the 100. as there is somewhat to prooue that confession was vsed to the priest or Elder so there is nothing to prooue that it was counted necessarie in his daies The question is this whether as at such time a sister maketh confession to an Elder the Elder women must be present This question declareth that priestes had not such familiar and secret shriuing of virgines in those daies as they haue now among the papists S. Basils answer is this The confession shal be made more decentlie and more reuerentlie by the Elder woman vnto the Elder man which is able wiselie to set downe the forme of repentance reformation This answer declareth that Saint Basell would not haue yong women to shriue them selues at all vnto the Priest but that if anie thing troubled their conscience which they were disirous to vtter they should first expresse it to an auncient woman and she should make report thereof to the Priest as in the colledges of virgines he prescribeth it moste conuenient to be done by the matrone or Elder woman that had the ouersight of the yonge sisters and in the next question he affirmeth that the said Elder woman or gouernesse hath iust cause to be angrie with the Priest if he appoint anie thing to be done by the sisters that are vnder her charge without her knoweledge Whereby he declareth plainelie that he alloweth not that priestes should heare the secret confession of such yonge women or appoint them anie penance without the knowledge of their gouernesse That men ought to make good choise of them to whome they wil confesse their secret offences it prooueth not that confession is necessarie whereupon we stand or that it was accounted necessarie in Saint Basills daies That Iohn Baptist made a preparatiō to shrift it is a fond dreame when you your selfe acknowledge that your sacrament hath no place in them that are not babtized That the institution of Christ doth include an exact confession of euerie sinne to the Priest you can neuer be able to prooue The Baptisme of Iohn was not instituted by man but by God therefore of as great efficacie as that which was ministered by the Apostles for Christ was baptized for vs not with the worse baptisme which was ministered by the hands of Iohn ALLEN Necephorus later then he but a learned Greeke writer declareth also vnto Theodosius a Monke that the power of binding and loosing sinnes was committed to bishoppes by our mercifull Lord Christ Iesus in so much saith he that once all men came and confessed their secret sinnes to them by whom they either receued pardon or were put backe But now through the encrease of Christian people and great tediousnes of the worke they haue committed this busines much what to religious persons such as be of tried conditions for to be moste profitable to others
of the Primitiue Church or to disprooue Beatus Rhenanus which denieth the same accusing both the noueltie and and the tyranie thereof and the danger that mens consciences haue beene in through it beside manie other knowne inconueniences ALLEN But now if you conferre with the Fathers of all ages and of euerie notable Church touching this confession to Gods Priests you may beginne if you list euen at this daie and driue vp both the trueth of the doctrine and the perpetuall practise thereof euen to the Apostles time In the late holie Council holden at Trent both the doctrine is confirmed and declared with all grauitie and also the aduersaries of that sacrament and the misconstructers of Christes wordes of remission to pertaine to preaching of the Gospell not to the verie act of absolution be by the consent of all Catholike states of the Christian world accursed excommunicated It was at Furence also decreed in a most generall assemblie of both the Latine and Greek Church that as wel the whol sacrament of penance as that especiall part which is called confession was of Christes institution In the great councell holden at Lateran there is so plaine charge giuen to euerie Christian to confesse his sinnes either to his owne ordinarie Parochian or to some other Priest that hath by him or otherwise authoritie and iurisdiction ouer the penitent that Protestantes affirme albeit verie false'y that confession was first instituted in the said Councel and this was more then three hundred yeares since And foure hundred yeares before that in a Prouinciall Councell that was kept at Vormacia there is a Canon made concerning the qualities of the priests that are constituted to be confessours and Penitentiaries where it is commaunded that they be such Qui possunt singulorum causas originem quoque modum culparum sigillatim considerare examinare That can particularlie trie out and examine the causes of euerie offender the manner and ground of their faultes FVLKE We are so well accquainted with your often bragges of Fathers and Councells that we neuer start for them seeing we knowe you haue nothing but the drosse of the latter times to cast at vs. For the Councell of Trentes decree we esteeme it as it is worthie being made by a few buckeram Bishoppes of Italie and some other Epicurian prelates of other countries to patch vp rather then to repaire the ruines and decaies of the kingdome of Antichrist In the late Councel of Florence I remember nothing decreed of this matter neither doe you note where we should finde it In the Lateran Councell that was kept litle more then 300. yeares since the Protestantes doe trulie affirme that the necessitie of auricular confession was first imposed vpon men of the Romish Church For in the councell of Wormes which you saie was 400 yeares elder there is neuer a word of confession or confessor but of wife consideration to be had of them that did penance by which are ment open offenders that did open pennance neither are you able to prooue the contrarie Paenitentibue saith the Canon serundum differentiam peccatorum c. To the penitents or such as doe penance let penance be decreed by the iudgement of the Priest according to the difference of their sinnes Therefore in giuing penance the Priest ought seuerallie to consider the causer of euerie one the beginning also manner of the faulies and diligentlie to examine and manifestlie to know the affection and sighings of the offenders also to consider the qualities of the times persons of the places ages that according to the consideration of the places ages or times or according to the qualitie of the offences the groning of euery offendor he turne not his eies from the holie rules Thus sarre the Canon after which follow the rules of penance to be apointed for diuers kindes of offences as for him that hath killed a Priest a pagane his parents or brother or for him that hath slain a man in his madnes or against his will and such like whereby it appeereth that the Canon was made for penance to be enioyned to publike offenders and not to compell men to confesse their secret sinnes ALLEN Which decree is borowed word for word almoste out of the last Canon of Constantinople Councell called the sixth generall which was long before all the forsaid Synodes Their discourse is long vpon the Priestes dutie which shoulde sitte on confessions whome they instruct by these wordes Oportebit qui facultatem absoluendi ligandi à Deo receperunt peccati qualitatem speculentur peccatoris promptitudinem ad reuersionem vt sic medicamentum admoueant aegritudini aptum ne si de peccato sine discrimine statuant aberrent à salute aegrotantis Those that haue receiued of our Lorde power to loose and binde must trie out the qualitie of euerie fault and the readines of the offender to returne vnto vertue that they maie prouide a medicine meet to the maladie lest if they should without distinct knowledge of their sinne giue iudgement they should erre in poruiding health for the sicke person By which Councell kept in Constantinople you maie easelie gather that neither confession was euer omitted by the lawe nor the common Penitentiarie long abrogated out of Constaninople Church And when I name these decrees of so manie generall Councels in diu rfe ages I do not onelie call them generallie to witnesse for my cause which were inough seeing euerie determination there passeth as by the sentence of the holie Ghoste and Christes owne iudgement of whose presence such hotie assemblance is assured but I appeale to eueric holy Bishop Priest and Prince of the world that agreed to the same and were there assembled euerie of which was of more experience learning and vertue or at the least of more humilitie then all our aduersaries aliue But now if you go to trie other the learned writers of all times for the practize of this point then our labour shall be infinite but our cause more strong and 〈◊〉 aduersaries sooner confounded I need not for that practize name the learned schoolemem of excellent capacitie in deepe mysteries because they were so late and because Heretikes can not denie but they are all vndoubtedlie against them and euerie one for vs Thomas Aquinas is ours Dionysius is ours I meane the Carthusian If anie man doubt of Saint Bernard let him reade the life of Malachie whome he praiseth sor bringing into vre the most profitable vse of confession in the rude partes of Ireland Saint Bede is prooued before not onelie to haue allowed confession to the Priest but to haue expounded Saint Iames wordes of confession for the sacrament of pennance and vttering our sinnes to Gods Ministers And he recordeth that in our Countrie of England before his daies confession was vsed to a Priest Whereof as also os pennance and satisfaction there is an example or two in the
fourth booke of his ecclesiasticall historie of our Church FVLKE The decree of the Constantinopolitan councell in sense is the same with the former but not word for word nay almoste it hath neuer a word alike But it is to be vnderstood of publike penitentes to be bounde or loosed according to their qualitie of the offence the greatnes of their repentance The words are these It behoueth that they which haue receiued of god the power of loosing and binding consider the qualitie of the sinne and the readines of the sinner vnto returning that so they maie vse a medicine fit for the disease lest if they should determine of sinne without difference they should erre from the health of the sick person For the disease of sinne is not simple but diuerse and of manie formes and budding vp with manie hurtfull branches by which the euill is spred farre and wide and creepeth so farre vntill at length it withstandeth the vertue of that which healeth Therefore he that will shew what skill he hath in the spirituall art of healing must diligentlie search out how he that hath sinned is affected whether he incline vnto health or contrariwise by those manners to which he is familiarlie accustomed prouoke the diseased to looke against him and whether he by him-selfe obeyeth his Master or whether the sore of the minde doth encrease by medicins that are laid to it and so mercie is to be bestowed by equall measure For there is great regarde both with God and with the gouernour of this pastorall care to bring home the wandring sheepe and to heale it being wounded by the serpent and neither to thrust it downe by the hedlonges of desperation nor to loose the raines vnto dissolution of life and contempt but by all meanes as well by sharp medicines as by gentle to withstand and striue that the sore maie be healed that he which knoweth the fruites of repentance maie wiselie gouerne the man being called vnto that heauenlie glorie Therefore he ought to know both kindes of medicines as well them that be of rigor as them that be of pittie and not to follow them which haue taken in hand onelie the vpper face of figures that are deliuered as Saint Basill hath taught vs. In this Canon there is no worde of confession or whereby the necessitie of confession maie be inferred vpon all men for their secret offences Neither can it be prooued that the penitentiarie priest once abrogated by Nectarius was euer restored The schoolmes opinion we are no more bound to follow in this then in other pointes of poperie Saint Bernard alloweth in deede confession made vnto the Priests and ministers of God but the necessitie thereof he doth not laie as a clogge on mens consciences The like I saie of S. Bede who in the booke and Chapter by you quoted speaketh of one Adamanus a scot who hauing committed some great wickednes in his youth when he considered the greeuosnes of his fact was in great distrust of minde and comming to a priest of whome he hoped that the waie of saluation might be shewed vnto him he confessed his guiltines and desired him to giue him counsell how he might auoid the wrath of God that was to come After this manner to come to confession we denie not but it is most expedient for them that are not quiered in conscience but that al men are bound by this or any other example to make a perticuler rehersall of their sinnes to a priest before they can haue remission Beda neither here nor els where teacheth ALLEN Before him S. Gregorie so well liketh and knoweth this practize of sacramentall confession that in his Pastorll he prescribeth the Priests of Gods Ghurch manie waies how to seeke out the diseases of their peoples soules and according to the varietie of the same to admit or put backe to pardon or to punish yea so plaine he is in this matter that he chargeth the Priest to be exceeding grieuoslie punished that in anie case shall vtter the Penitentes confession or anie parte thereof Againe farre aboue these holy Leo the great amending the hard custome that in some places of Italie Campania was vsed touching publike confession of priuat sins he saieth Reatus conscientiarum sussiciat solis sacerdotib indicari confessione secreta Quamuis enim plenitudo fidei videtur esse laudabilis que propter Dei timorem apud homines eruhescere non veretur tamen quia non omnium huiusmodi suntpeccata vt velint in poenitentiam ed publicari remoueatur tam improbabilis cohsuetudo ne multi à poenitentiae remedijs arceantur dum aut erubescunt aut metuunt 〈◊〉 sais facta suareserare quibus possint legum constitutione per elli Sufficit enim illa confessio quae primùm Deo offertur tunc 〈◊〉 saccrdoti qui pro debitis confitentium precator accedit Tunc enim demum piures ad poenitentiam potuerunt prouocari si populi auribus non publicetur conscientia confitentis It is enough that the guilt offences of mans conscience be opened to the Priests alone in secret confession For though the foruour of faith be verie laudable which is content for Gods sake to be ashamed before men yet because the sinnes of euerie man be not such that the penitent would gladlie vtter openlie let so raprobale custome be abolished lest manie be holden from the remedies of penāce whiles either they are ashamed or feare to open their deedes to their enimes by whom they might by order of law be punished For that confession is sufficient which is made first to God and then to the Priest also who will be an intercessour for the sinnes of them that confesse For then might moe be prouoked to penance if the secret conscience of the confessed be not published to the eares of the people Thus saith Saint Leo a man of that time and credit as our aduersaries would wish Let them saie now that priuat confession began in the Lateran Councell because that thing which euer was counted and vsed as necessarie was there decreed for the amending of the peoples sloth to be done euerie yeare once at the lest before they receiued the blessed sacrament As truly maie they saie that the Euchariste and receiuing thereof was begune in the same Councell by the verie same Canon For as there is charge that euerie man should be confessed so there is commaundement giuen that euerie man shall receiue once a yeare the blessed Sacrament So litle care they haue what they saie so that they saie enough to beguile them that can skil of nothing FVLKE Yf Saint Gregorie in his pastorall or els where had written any thing that might but make a face of the necessitie of auricular confession you would haue set downe some parte of his wordes or at least quoted the booke and Chapter where we might finde them but in trueth there is no such matter in all that worke conteining three
in the sacrament of penance there is a power iudiciarie and therefore can not be practized lawfullie but vpon subiect persons and causes not exempted from their iudgement and excepted from their audience In which cases the persons of higher iurisdiction to whome by right and law the cognition of those reserued sinnes belong do sometimes vpon occasion giuen communicate their power to the said simple priestes and do license them to exercise their iurisdiction vpon persons and causes not properly pertaining vnto them as when the Popes Indulgence giueth the sinner leaue to choose his ghostlie father and by him that he maie be assoiled euen from such sinnes as be reserued to the supreame power of the Church In this matter also the Indulgence ioyneth with the ordinarie sacrament of penance and the minister receiueth iurisdiction by the Indulgence to heare and assoile the Penitent of such sinnes as before were not subiect to his peculiar regiment and therefore this is also called a pardon from sinne and the paine for sinne and a full remission FVLKE You haue hitherto held hard that neither the Pope nor anie Bishop can giue pardon of anie mortal sinne but by reseruation of cases it appeareth that the Pope challengeth this prerogatiue that he onelie may giue absolution and pardon in these greeuous crimes that be called cases papall and the Bishop in cases episcopall Now let vs see how this geare hangeth together The Pope hath this prerogatiue in respect of his high iurisdiction for in the sacramēt of penance euery priest by order as we heard before hath as much authority as he Then if these cases be reserued to the Popes iurisdiction this reseruation doth prooue that the Pope taketh vpon him to pardon the most greeuous sinnes by his iurisdiction onelie or els he deceaueth them that seeke for absolution of them at his hands And whereas you would cloake the matter by saying the Popes indulgence doth graunt that the priest in confession maie assoile a man from such sinnes as be reserued to the supreame power of the Church it is to no purpose For the Priest in this case is but the popes deputie to exercise the Popes iurisdiction as you saie as well vpon persons as causes not properlie pertaining to him but by the Popes license whereupon it followeth that the Pope may do in his owne person that which he doth by his deputie but by his deputie he taketh vpon him to remit most deadlie sinnes therefore the Pope taketh vpon him to remit deadlie sinnes by his iurisdiction onelie If you saie the absolution commeth from the sacrament and not from his iurisdiction then shew vs out of the scriptures how the Pope hath authoritie to restraine the grace of sacraments in respect of the person that ministreth them or els your reseruation of cases and exemption of persons will prooue no better then an Antichristian tyrannie For if Christ haue giuen power to euerie Priest to remitte all sinnes as you haue often affirmed vpon the text Ioh. 20. whose sinnes you remit c. what is he but Antichrist exalting himselfe aboue all that is called God which controlleth the liberall graunt of Christ exempting both persons and sinnes from their power without al ground or war rant of Gods word ALLEN That thou be not deceiued herein vnderstand good Reader that euerie Priest in his taking Orders and by Christes graunt hath full power to remit all sinnes and all men of their sinnes that be penitent and yet that this power can not be practized by the law of nature indifferentlie vpon all because this sacrament and none other is iudiciall and therfore profitablie can be extended no further but to them that be of their subiection and regiment Wheresoeuer the Priest consecrateth it is effectuall whomesoeuer he baptizeth he is lawfullie Christianed whomesoeuer the Bishop ordereth he standeth trulie ordered and so forth though they should not herein meddle in other mens cures without speciall licence sufferance or necessitie But no man can assoile anie person at all that is not subiect vnto him either ordinarilie or otherwise because it is an act of iurisdiction and therefore though his power of orders be in it selfe sufficient yet by that onelie he can not absolue anie man but in necessitie except he haue withall authoritie ouer the person and in that case wherein the penitent requireth his sentence which iurisdiction he maie haue either ordinarilie as vpon all those that be of his charge or els extraordinarilie by some special graunt of the superiour as Bishop or Pope as we maie see in the formes and course of Indulgencies diuers times And thus considering of the matter you see that the Popes pardons as they be onelie proper to the act of iurisdiction separated from the power of priesthood and sacramentall confession can not remit the sinnes them-selues neither damnation due for their reward though because licence commeth and proceedeth by them to the inferiour Priestes to remitte sinnes in all cases they maie be called as I said plenarie and most liberal graces and graunts to assoile man both from sinne and the punishment that is due therefore FVLKE You pretend as though you would render a reason why all Priestes haue not equall power ouer all men and to remit all sinnes and for the former you saie somewhat though not sufficient but for the later you saie nothing at all First you confesse that euerie Priest rightly ordered hath by Christes graunt power to remit all sinnes and all men of their sinnes that be penitent But this power can not be practized you say by the law of nature indifferentlie vpon all Then belike Christ hath graunted and they receiued an vnprofitable power for why haue they power to remitte all sinnes and al mens sinnes and yet maie practize the same but vpon some sinnes and some mens sinnes onelie In truth Christ hath giuen ful power to al his ministers according to the measure of euerie one of their charges the Apostles ouer al the world their successors the bishops pastors teachers within the compasse of their seuerall cures and therefore you saie well that God hath so ordered the case that no man maie intermedle in an others cure without licence sufferance or necessitie the Pope then doth wickedlie to exempt anie man from his laufull pastor to whome the charge of his soule is by Christ committed The reason you giue wherfore this power can not be practized vpon all is friuolous because this sacrament and none other is iudiciall For who will graunt you that the power of remitting sinnes in repentance is more iudiciall then in baptisme or in the Lordes supper For the minister ought to haue a iudgement whome he baptizeth and whome he admitteth vnto the Lords table If the children of Turks or Iews be offered to baptisme without the conuersion or consent of their parentes by what warrant shall he receiue them If Turkes Iewes or Gentiles that be of yeares of discretion offer them selues to baptisme
of must be forsaken which in lesser offences it is not possible altogether to auoide But while you make the sacrifice of the Masse c. to serue onelie for veniall sinnes you doe more dishonour to it then your aduersarie would haue thought you could But confession the great cousonage of the world is so precious for all your popish purposes that in respect of it you make light of all pointes of poperie beside That the popes pardons properlie pertaine to the remissiō of temporall paine due for mortal sinnes remitted before in the Sacrament of penance whereupon the full meaning of pardons is opened THE THIRD CHAP. ALLEN THe Popes holines then being disburdened by most iust meanes from all causes of enuie rising vpon the surmise or open sclaunder that he would forgiue mens sinnes euen before they were committed as though he should graunt further a licence for men to commit notorius crimes yea being prooued to be so farre from the fact that he taketh not vpon-him by his pardons so much as to release anie mortall sinne at all and therefore that he neuer arrogated so much vnto him selfe in these matters in respect of his iurisdiction onelie as is iustlie graunted to the simplest priest aliue that is lawfully ordered the case standing then before God and all the world so cleare with him let vs see what he claimeth by his iurisdictiō and in what sense his Pardons do remit or release anie thing to man seeing in matters of mortall sinne otherwise then by ioying with the sacrament of penance he doth not intermedle with remission at all ALLEN Truelie to be plain and briefe they that be the gouernours of Gods Church doe challenge nothing ells nor meane nothing ells by their Pardons but the release and pardoning of such punishment as is often due after the sinnes be remitted in the sacrament of Confession that is to saie they pardon the penance enioyned by the holie Ghostlie Father or that should haue bene enioyned by the rigour of their Canons and by the law according to the quantitie of the sinne confessed And what lesse can they beeing the appointed pastours of our soules and gouernours of the Church what lesse can they challenge then to forgiue that punishment or some part thereof which the lawes did prouide whereof they were the makers or executors themselues and consequentlie to remit such punishment as might ensue for the lacke of fullfilling thereof There is no temporall Prince but he may by his Princelie Perogatiue pardon any seuerall fault committed either against his owne person or the commonwealth that is to saie discharge the offendour of that paine which by the law he should suffer And why should we thinke it strange that those men to whome by expresse wordes of Christ more preheminence is giuen for their iurisdiction spirituall then to any Prince aliue is giuen by law or nature for their Regiment why should we thinke it strange that they should pardon or release the paines and penaltie appointed by the Ghostlie Father or prescribed by the law or due to the sinne it selfe by Gods iustice if there were no law for the case or order taken of the Church past FVLKE The Popes pardons beeing not onelie prostrate as common harlotts to euerie man that will paie for them but also his dispensations against the commaundement of God which are of the same nature with his pardons as readie to be solde wherebie he taketh vpon him to make periurie incest and many other horrible crimes lawful as in discharging subiects from their oth of obedience to their lawful princes in licensing the Vncle to marry his Neece yea the brother to marry his sister for Augustinus de Ancona excludeth no degree from his dispensatiō but the mariage of the parents with their owne children his execrable holines is not yet discharged from that shamful Antichristian tyranie which he is iustlie accused to vsurpe as also it hath beene shewed plainly that howsoeuer some Canonists haue restreined the force of his pardons from remitting of deadlie sinne yet are his pardons extant to be seene wherein he promiseth full remission of all sinnes In which if he delude men he is so much the more wicked to promise pardon of all sinnes and yet is not able to remit so much by his pardon as a Parish Priest may doe without his pardons Wherefore your impudencie is the greater to affirme so often they challenge nothing ells nor meane nothing ells but the release of penance or punishment due I haue before prooued both by the glosse of their law and by the verie wordes of their pardons that they challenge this authority to release not onelie the paine but also the saultes If they meane otherwise then they write and speake then are they detestable dissemblers But howsoeuer some Canonists to salue their matter of shrift haue expounded them to perteine onelie to the punishment due for sinnes remitted in the sacrament of penance yet their exposition can by no meanes stand with the wordes of many pardons But seeing you will needes haue it so let vs see what you saie to prooue it First you aske what lesse they beeing appointed pastours of our soules and gouernours of the Church can challenge then to forgiue the punishment which the law whereof they were makers or executors doth prouide To this we answere that we neither acknowledge them to be pastors or gouernours of gods church nor if they were to haue authoritie to make lawes to intangle mens consciences and then to streine them or loose them at their pleasures Christ gaue power to remit or retaine to binde or loosethe penitent or vnpenitent but not to binde the penitent to punishment whose sins are loosed and remitted The example of temporall Princes pardoning or releasing the punishment of transgressours will not serue For the pastours of the Church must doe that which Christ hath commaunded and no more which are so gouernours of the Church that they be not Lordes and Princes thereof but seruants of the Church and of Christ. But lest of all can any Pastour of our soules or gouernour of the Church release any punishment due to sinne it selfe by Gods iustice which none but God of his mercie can doe his iustice beeing before answered in Christ our Sauiour ALLEN And that it is the punishment onelie which they meane to pardon by their Indulgences it may be euident both by that we haue said before and also by the wordes of course in moste Indulgences in which lightlie you see this clause De poenitentijs iniunct is we assoile them from the penance of so many daies or yeares as may be seene planlie in the holie Councell of Lateran and in the decrees both of Innocentius the third and the fourth The sinne it selfe is not measurable by times and yeares for it is a simple and indiuisible act or affection of minde or man as our schooles speake in such matters and therefore a man can not be assoiled
had expresselie forgiuen him by the warrant of the Prophet Nathan his greeuous sinnes Consider the case of all Gods elect people how sharpelie they were visited for sinne after it was in them pardoned Marke whether Marie Moises his sister was not punished and separated seuen daies as it were for penance after her brethren had procured her pardon at Gods handes Thus hath God of respect not onelie to mercie but also partlie to iustice so alwaies pardoned that he had consideration of iudgement and righteousnes Now whome should the Church follow in remitting of sinnes but him by whofe power and warrant she doth remit sinnes FVLKE We see that god did chastise the Prophet Dauid and his posterititie with a rodde of man and with a fatherlie correction but his mercie and louing kindnes he neuer tooke from them Neither punished them to satisfie his iustice for their sinne remitted but to make them and other by their example more carefull not to commit sinne in time to come The case of Gods elect people was somewhat otherwise Exod. 32. where although he receiued to mercie the wholl people that they should not be destroied from the face of the earth yet he might of his iustice punish a number of particular persons that were moste rebellious and authors of the defection and Idolatrie Marie the sister of Moses was also punished of God first to humble her and bring her to repentance and that punishment was continued on her for a few daies partlie to exercise her in earnest and hartie repentance partlie to admonish the people by her example to beware of murmuring against Gods ministers their lawfull magistrates not in respect of anie satisfaction of Gods iustice which can receiue none but a ful sufficient satisfaction in his beloued sonne Iesus Christ. Wherefore if the Church will follow God in remission of sinnes she must remit them freelie as God doth in Iesus Christ forgiue vs for so Saint Paull meaneth that men should forgiue one another their trespasses and not to remit the fault and retaine the paine except it be in case where men are appointed by God to execute paines as the Magistrates are or to practize discipline as the Church is in which case the Church may not think to satisfy Gods iustice but to seek reformation of the offender and to prouide for the example of others ALLEN Seeing God then him-selfe after he hath by his owne means and absolute power pardoned mans faultes and discharged him of the sentence of death and damnation had yet enioyned penance as when he said to Adam In the sweate of thy browes thou shalt prouide for thy liuing And to Eue. Thou shalt in paine bring forth thy Children And to them both that they should die the temporall death though they might escape by his mercie euerlasting miserie seeing this we neede not to doubt but temporall punishment often remaineth after the sinnes be remitted and that the Church of God doth imitate moste conuenientlie the saied mercie enioyned with iustice in all her most righteous practize of pardoning and punishing sinne in Christes behalfe by whose iurisdiction she herein holdeth But for the further proofe of the matter I haue saide much in the defense of Purgatotie and this question properlie of Purgatotie and this question properlie perteineth to 〈◊〉 place FVLKE That temporall punishment is laied vpon men often times although their sinnes be remitted it is no question but whether such punishment be a satisfaction to the iustice of God or a fatherlie discipline of his mercie that is the matter in controuersie The Church therefore in exercising the discipline of God vpon offendours may and ought to imitate the example of god but then shee must beware of two things the one that she laie no other burthen of punishment vpon the offendours then the worde of God will warrant therefore penance is not arbitrarie as the Canonists doe saie but to be directed by the worde of God Secondlie shee must take heede that shee release no more punishment then shee is able to laie on And therefore shee must be assured by the worde of God whether shee can eioyne penance to be suffered in Purgatorie before shee take vpon her to remit any such punishment touching which matter as you haue saied more in the defence of Purgatorie so haue I answered sufficientlie to the ouerthrow of Purgatorie and all that dependeth thereupon That Christ gaue by his expresse worde authoritie to the pastours of Gods Church to binde and loose not onely the sinnes themselues but also the temporall paine or penance remaining THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN BVt now for the iurisdiction that Gods Church hath in releasing the same punishment which remaineth after the fault be forgiuen it standeth no doubt vpon that high commission which Christ receiued of his Father and did communicate moste amplie to the Apostles and by then to all Bishops for euer For the father did not onelie honour Christ his sonne according to his humanity with the power of priesthoode or with other soueraignitic for the institutious of sacraments or such like but with all regiment of that bodie whereof he is the heads as he is man By which keye of iurisdiction he corrected sinners with great Maiestie and pardoned them at his pleasure not onelie of sinne and euerlasting paine where the penitencie of the partie did so require but also of such correction as the law had prescribed for sinne or Gods iustice had enioyned for the same FVLKE That the Church hath any iurisdiction in releasing that punishment which remaineth after the faulte for giuen for a satisfaction of Gods iustice it hath not hetherto beene prooued nor euer shall be prooued by authoritie of the holie scriptures which teach the contrarie that Christ alone hath by his one sacrifice made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And therefore it is vnreasonable to seeke whereupon it standeth For neither did Christ receiue any such commission in his humanitie neither did he deliuer ouer any such iurisdiction vnto his Apostles to release temporall punishment due to Gods iustice vnsatisfied by his death and passion For by one oblation once offered by his eternall spirit he made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And the power of Priesthoode and soueraigne authoritie to institute sacraments and to be head of his Church he receiued not as man onelie but as our mediatour God and man The Lorde said vnto my Lorde saith Dauid sit thou on my right hand Thou art a Priest for euer c. Which offices authorities can not beseparated from his diuinity without Nestorian impiety Christ is head of his Church a Priest for euer as he is Dauids Lord but as he is Dauids Lord he is not onelie his sonne but his God therefore he is heade of his Church and a priest after the order of Melchisedeeh not as he is man onelie but as he is God man neither did he pardon any
time it selfe doth mooue them FVLKE These arguments I like well for they bewraie your infirmitie moste of al. And now for answere I saie that your Maior is false as weil as your Minor for the common Popish sense of pardons is as the wordes of them pretend that is to giue pardon not onelie of penance enioyned but also of sinnes Againe the gouernours of the Church as your Maior should haue beene framed but that you dare not come within the compasse of a lawfull syllogisme haue no power either to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted or to remit penance enioyned for sins remitted but of time of penance enioyned for satisfaction of the Church as we heard latelie out of Saint Augustine when the Church may be satisfied in shorter time Your Minor which you knew would not be admitted you take vpon you to prooue but you come nothing neere the matter for this is the point of your Minor which we denie that the Pope is the principall gouernour of Gods Church yea that he is any gouernour of Gods Church But if he were a Bishop of Rome as many were whose successour he claimeth to be he might be allowed in his Church of Rome to binde and loose enioyne and remit so farre as Christian discipline will beare but not to claime tiranie ouer all Churches as he doth Now you in your mishapen syllogisme in which you fumble diuerse matters together to deceiue the ignorant prooue that the Church and gouernours thereof haue power to release that which they haue power to enioyne which is not the matter in controuersie But whether they haue power to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted to answere Gods iustice or whether the Pope be a lawfull gouernour of the Church these and such like be matters of controuersie which you are neuer able to conclude in any lawfull and true syllogisme ALLEN And this argument shal be vnmooueable except they reiect with the Popes Pardons all manner of discipline as well of excommunication as other lesser satisfactions whereof we haue allreadie spoken as in deede to mainteine their falsehoode they must needes doe as also they shall be enforced to reprooue both the Councell of Nice all the holie Fathers and the generall practize of the Church and with them the expresse scriptures in which the worthie fruites of penance sharpe discipline iudging our selues obedience to our Prelates binding reteining of sinnes excommunicating and deliuering vp to Sathan be so often condemned It must needes be a miserabe doctrine of these Protestants which cannot be vpholden but by so shamefull shiftes and when we driue them into such straites in a matter where they thinke most may be saied for themselues and lest for our defence where shall they stand in our plaine causes in which almost our aduersaries confesse vs to haue the vantage of antiquitie and the preheminence of all 〈◊〉 Councells in the world But surelie I thinke falsehood hath so litle holde in all matters that it standeth onelie vpright whiles the contrarie is not seene or not vnderstanded which shee seeketh euer by all meanes shee may to couer and keepe close For the night shee loueth and in darkenes shee delighteth Doe but open the true sense of anie article by them impugned and it is more then halfe prooued and the enemies without argument vpon the sight of trueth in a manner discomfited So it fareth with them in our present cause which they haue long toyled and troubled in the mist of their phantasies and vpon false interpretation discharged amongst the simple sorte that that thing which in this sense as Gods Church that hath the ruling of the matter taketh it is so sure and so cleare in it selfe that I thinke they shall neuer be hable with honestie to speake against in any one parcell thereof FVLKE A boy that hath studied Logicke halfe a yeare may be ashamed to make such syllogismes and yet you are not ashamed to affirme before the worlde that this argument is vnmooueable except we reiect with the Popes pardons all manner of discipline And though it be manifest vnto the worlde that we practize all Godlie discipline which is according to the scriptures in requiring the worthie fruites of repentance iudgeing of our selues obedience to Christian Prelates practizing also the binding and reteining of sinnes excommunication and deliuering vp to Satan giuing that reuerence we ought to the holie Councell of Nice to all holie fathers and to the generall practize of the Church yet you blush not to write that we shall be enforced to reprooue all these It is not these beggerlie arguments M. Allen that shall enforce vs to these absurdities If you haue any better stuffe in store for Pardons bring it out for shame or ells talke no more of enforcement except it be in shrift where no man can controll you The rest to the ende of this Chapter conteining nothing but generall rayling and arrogant boasting after your accustomed manner I passe ouer as needelesse to be answered 〈◊〉 wise then it doth discouer it selfe in any wise mans iudgement That there be diuerse waies of temporall punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euery of which waies may be in some cases released in parte or in wholl by the Pardons of Popes and Bishops THE SIXT CHAP. ALLEN ANd yet to giue more light to the matter and the greater ouerthrow to falsehood let vs driue the cause forward and weigh with our selues the wholl state of things in this order First that there be three waies of punishment of mans sinnes after they be released in the sacrament of Penance besides the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe withall and besides the punishment appointed for offences by the ciuill or temporall lawes whereof I now speake not the first the easiest is that penāce which is in secret confessiō inioyned by our Confessor which is lightlie as these times be much lesse then the nature of the offence for which it was prescribed requireth Yet because it is taken obedientlie and by our iudges prescription and in a sacrament in which God alwaies worketh much more grace then he doth by the selfe same things without the sacrament and because the penitent is readie to take more if more had beene prescribed in all these respects it standeth often if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes for which it was inioyned for a ful satisfaction before god when it is accomplished FVLKE In the first Chapter of this booke you charged the reader to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of this cause but the methode you follow is such as becommeth your cause namelie the methode of deceitfulnes which is that you call the compasse of your cause For true methode requireth to proceede from things more better knowne to things lesse knowne as it were to build vpon a good foundation but your manner is to assume that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie and thereupon to builde as it were vpon an imaginarie
fundation afterwarde to make a florish in wordes and a vaine 〈◊〉 of confirming your foundation As in this cause it had beene moste necessarie if the compasse of your cause could haue borne it to haue first prooued substantiallie that there remaineth temporall punishment after sinne remitted to satisfie the iustice of God Then that the iustice of God not satisfied by the act of Christs sacrifice on the crosse may be satisfied afterward Thirdlie the meane wherby it may be satisfied which you cal the treasure of the Church fourthly that dispensation therof belongeth to the pope these things once prooued the way had beene plainner to bring in the Popes pardons for proofe of which to be good you haue plaide the proctour all this while But these matters must be daintelie touched the compasse of your cause can not abide to haue them thoroughlie handled And therefore it is sufficient to affirme them for other proofe you haue none of them And yet as though you brought with you noe worsse then mathematicall demonstrations you blow the trumpe afore hand to giue more light to the matter the greater ouerthrow to falsehood to driue the cause forward and weigh the wholl state of things And what saie you to the purpose forsooth you tell vs that there be three kindes of punishment of mans sinnes after they be remitted But sir wee beleeue you not where is your demonstration Why Is it not sufficient that M. Allen saith so what an vnrea sonable man are you that will not learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause well seeing we muste haue none other proofe of your sayings let vs see what you say first the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe with all are none What those be I know not except it be some superstitious vowes and such like matters but the fruites of repentance which God chargeth a man withal be so necessarie to be brought forth that otherwise the repentance is fained and thereof followeth no remission Againe ciuill punishment is none and yet nothing is more like to prooue that purpose what is it then The first easiest is that penance which is enioyned in secret confession In deed that is easie and such as may encourage men to commit sinnes for which they make so easie satisfaction toties quoties But what is the effect of this satisfactió It standeth for a full satisfaction before God when it is accomplished What alwaie Nay often times if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes Then is there no certaintie in this matter but in steede of a quietnes of conscience a torment followeth vpon it if the sinner be not assured that his penance enioyned will goe for paiement or satisfaction Well when this easie penance is a full satisfaction whence taketh it so great force you answere small workes by force of the sacraments are verie effectuall But to prooue this patch of Poperie to be a sacrament what daie wil you take for that which is the grounde of al your disputation is denied of vs as you know So that hetherto but by petion of principles you get nothing ALLEN The second way of punishment is appointed by the Canons generallie for such faultes as be committed after Baptisme that is to saie by the lawes of the Church or Decrees of Bishops and chiefe Magistrates thereof and is called Canonicall satisfaction Which is much more sparpe and greeuous then the other that in priuate penance is commonlie giuen and a great deale more answerable to Gods iustice and the greeuousnes of the crimes committed And so the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not right of them for open offences to satisfie the Church and the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes as we may perceiue by Saint Augustine Tertullian and other that haue written of penance And this waie prescribed satisfaction by the auncient decrees of Councells which lightlie appointed seuen yeares of penance for euerie deadelie sinne was almost a rule for such as heard secret confessions to moderate their penance by which they lightlie gaue to the penitents euen after the limitation of the saide decrees auncient Canons Now to giue so many yeares or daies of penance signifieth the iniunction or prescriptions of fasts by certaine weekelie thoroughout the said prefixed times or continualfasting from moste meates euerie daie in all those yeares of penance other then would suffice for susteining of nature as bread and water and such shinne diet which 〈◊〉 bodie in this fall of our strength and manners could now scarse beare with this continuall mourning in outward behauiour of countenance speach and apparell and which was the greatest of all necessarie abstinence from the holie sacrament till the said penance was accomplished And this great penance was in the Primitiye Church prescribed by the Canons not onelie for cautell and prouision for the like sinnes afterward to be committed then when the Church had her punishment for sinnes seuerall from the paines appointed by the ciuill lawes for the same but also for the satisfiyng of gods iustice for the penitents sinnes the burden whereof then was counted as indeede it is so intollerable that neither the Church spared to enioyne great satisfaction nor the offenders refused to receiue and accomplish the same with humilitie This therefore is the second waie of punishment or prescription of penance for mortall sinnes remitted or in waie to be remitted by the penance of the partie In which kinde you may account also the seuere punishments which concerne the soull moste although sometimes they are ioyned vnto some corporall afflictions as excommunication suspension degradation such like for al these were vsual in the beginning of Christian daies for correction of sinne FVLKE Canonical punishment as we heard latelie in the next Chapter before was vt satis fait Ecclesiae to make satisfaction to the Church and not to the iustice of God who accepteth a contrite and an humble heart thorough the vertue of Christs death and passion as a full satisfaction to his instice You saie the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not rightlie of them for open offences to satisfie the Church the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes But how is this prooued that you saie you tell vs that we may perceiue it by S. Austine Tertullian and others that haue written of penance If it be as you saie why be not their sayings set downe and we with them that iudge not rightlie conuinced by them At lest why be not the places quoted where we may perceiue such a matter belike the compasse of the cause cannot abide it as also you sate this fal of our strength and manners could scarse beare such streight penance as by the Canons is prescribed You ioyne two things together of diuerse natutes If the strength of mans bodie be so greatly fallen as they are not able to endure such hard punishment
required for answere And therefore when they gaue a Pardon of the enioyned penance there could be no great doubt but the penitent beeing in zeale and deuotion qualified thereunto was therwith fullie pardoned of Purgatorie and the bonde of all paines to come in the next life But now of daies when penance and large satisfaction our nature declining euer to the worsse and deuotion continuallie decaying is not enioyned according to the olde Canons and but a small signe thereof remaining onelie in secret satisfction which is not of it selfe in this exceeding flow of sinne any thing agreeable to the faultes committed in this case to remit onelie the enioyned penance were not enough commonlie to preuent Purgatorie paines or to discharge the penitent of all satisfactory correction to come Whereby the Church by instigation of Gods spirit dealeth so much more mercifullie now then before because the people had neuer so much neede to hang on pardon as when their sinnes be greatest and their recompense lest Neuerthelesse such is the frowardnes of our time that they had rather take away penance contemptuouslie then haue it released by the power of god lawfullie For the great infirmitie of this world was the manifolde 〈◊〉 vsed and yet the meekenes of the Church which by the motion of God shee applieth her selfe vnto for the distresse of these daies and for the sinners sake is yet moste of sinners now commonlie contemned and of verie many that haue full great neede thereof as meere follie laughed at Yet the Church for her childrens reliefe bestoweth mercie still and a great deale lesse it is offended on that side then the other as no doubt the holie ghost guiding her affaires she standeth vpright on both sides FVIKE You doe not amisse to note a diuersitie betweene the practize of the auncient primitiue Church from the late Popish Church touching the Popes pardons and purgatorie for the moste auncient primitiue Church knew neither the one nor the other But you will haue the difference to arise moste iustlie vpon the alteration of mens manners and state of thing 's Touching the state of things it is so large a tearme that I know not what you meane thereby And I maruell what state of things that should be that should bring in a new religiō into the church of Christ as this of Popes pardons purgatorie is But the alteration of mens manners if it require another forme of discipline the change of manners from better to worsse requireth a discipline to be changed from milder to sharper and not as your Popish Church pretendeth to haue done from sharper to mil der and from milder to none at all For Canonicall penance satisfaction you haue changed to arbitrary penance satisfaction which you confes to be but a signe of the Canonicall nothing agreeable to the faultes committed And of the same arbitrarie satisfaction with all the desertes thereof you haue set the release to sale in your popes Pardons which in effect is nothing else but to sel a lisentiousnes of sinne when you haue taken awaie all feare of punishment therefroe eternall by shrift and temporall by pardons and pelting commutations without exacting true repentance and the true fruites thereof which appeere in amendment of life But to follow your vaine you say the penance enioyned in the primitiue Church was so large that it might seeme very answerable to the nature of the fault It is true that as the faultes were greater so the discipline was harder for satisfying of the Churches iudgement in accepting the offenders repentance and reconciliation to the Church But there was no meaning to satisfie the iustice of god vnsatisfied in the sacrifice of Christes death howsoeuer you make it a doubtles case as also you vse to doe euerie thing by bolde and stout asseueration which you are not able to prooue by anie sound or probable argument Well if it were as you saie there was no vse of pardons in the primitiue Church nor feare of purgatory paines which is a true conclusion although it be brought in vpon false principles But now you saie the Church by instigation of Gods spirit graunteth manie great Pardons because the people in respect of their great sinnes and small or no penance and satisfaction for them had neuer so much need to hang on pardon In deed the greater mens sinnes be the more need they haue that grace and mercie should abound for the release of them but then they must haue recourse to the fountaine of mercie and onelie ground where grace groweth euen the God of all consolation reconciled in Iesus Christ vnto all them that trulie repent of their sins purpose vnfeinedlie to lead a new life agreeable to his lawes and commandements But whereas the popish Church taking awaie in a manner all sorrow for sione and feare of punishment by offering satisfaction of pardons openeth a wide field vnto all wickednes and beside teacheth men to depend vpon the pardon of a man who commonlie selleth the same for aduauntage and disposeth it at his pleasure it is out of doubt she doth this by the instigation of the Deuill and not by the spirit of God For the spirit of God is the spirit of trueth of purenes of holines giuing no licence encouragement or consent to continue in sin as the doctrine of pardōs doth most manifestly the blasphemie of which is more to be detested then the follie to be laughed at of al them that be zelous of Christes glorie saluation of his people ALLEN She seeing therefore that remission of the enioyned penance could not discharge vs of the bond of the transitory paine to come being sure that it is no les lawfull to remit the paines due by the canons is enioyned effectually by the canons she giueth now 〈◊〉 not onely de 〈◊〉 penitentus but also de iniun 〈◊〉 of such penance as by the nature of the fault before god or the decrees of Councells should or had wont to be enioyned For there is no man that hath in penance prescribed either of fasting or praying or such like a 1000. or moe years and yet it is knowen that many such pardons are and haue been giuen long Neither could the 〈◊〉 of Purgatory wholy be discharged now as it was of old by the pardons of the primitiue Church in which onelie there was remission of the penance appointed because al penance thought reedful was then appointed except there were releasing also sometimes of al the penance or a great peece of the penance that shouldby law and reason haue beene inioyned FVLKE The man of sinne supreame head of the synagogue of Sathan vpon earth seeing that his glorie power and profit ariseth principally by the increase of the peoples sins hath first taken away al bridles of canonical repentance auncient discipline secondly giuen pardon not onelie of penance inioyned which is nothing in effect as you confes but also of penance to be inioyned
wherby he hath set the sinner out of feare of al discipline so at liberty to commit what wickednes he will without punishment Whereby it appeereth how true it is that you said that the pope was slaundered by them that said that for monie you maie obtaine of the Pope a free pardon before hand of any greeuous sinnes that you commit afterward when you now doe acknowledge that he giueth pardons not onlie de iniunct is poenitentiis but also de iniungendis of penance to be inioyned which you extend further by interpreting it of penance that should or ought to be inioyned though it be not inioyned at all So that it is all one in effect whether a man haue a pardon before hand of anie greeues sinne or whether he hath a pardon aforehand of all punishment due for the same or a pardon of course as they terme it for his monie after he hath committed the sinne ALLEN And this is the Churches meaning in giuing somanie daies and yeares as be often times expressed in pardons in titles of praiers or vse of certaine sanctified creatures made holie by Gods word and praier Of which because we see not the originall and because by vnlawfull practize of Printers or writters the grauntes of diuers Bishops for multiplication of the yeares may be ioyned together against the meaning of the giuers there may be some forged not authenticall yet we will not stand in that point because it is certaine that such be indeed graunted diuerse times by them that haue lawfull authority in the Church The vndouted sense whereof though euerie man maie easelie vnderstand by the premises yet fullie to open the case which is now so common in moste mens mouthes not well considered of manie Looke how manie daies or yeares a man maie deserue to be punished in this life if his sinnes were to the vttermoste taxed and the appointed penance of the Church fullfilled so manie yeares may the gouernours of the Church remit and forgiue by a Pardon But manie a man may and God knoweth often times doth commit so manie 〈◊〉 offences continue so long in sinne liue so wantonlie and so careleslie in all manner of wicked 〈◊〉 euen to his liues end alalmoste that being conuerted by Christer grace and so departing hence in his fauour as it often through much mercie falleth he must needes be in exceeding great debt for so long a life so euill spent And I thinke if you call him to account for all his common and dailie offences for all his daies vnthriftilie wasted for euerie of his idle wordes for euerie of his vaine thoughtes for so manie occasions of good workes omitted which he ought to haue done for often fellowship in other mens misdeedes besides his owne all this willriseto a great debt in a mens case that neuer required in all his time effectuallie to haue his debtes forgiuen him and therefore he must needes stand much bound euen for his veniall trespasses which though they deserue not of their nature damnation eternall yet beeing not remitted they binde man to transitorie punishment according to the number time and waight of them But now if you sit on the audit of the greater matters of this mans conscience where euerie of his sins deserued by the Churches limitation for correction onelie after they be remitted necre hand seuen yeares penance and some manie moe where he hath done nothing els all his euill and long time but heaped sinne vpon sinne where infinite sacrilege boldlie hath bin committed where his flesh was neuer satisfied of most vnlawfull lustes where his minde was euer full of greedie gaine where his handes or heart were allwaies imbrued with innocent blood were no parte of his minde or bodie hath beene free from what iniquitie you can name in all this corrupt case of manie a mans life where no good works that I maie vse Saint Chrysostomes wordes are found by which there maie be anie hope of release where there is abundance of all sinnes without anie satisfaction in this lamentable state of a life so euill spent how manie years penance if it were possible for the partie to liue so long were he by the Churches iudgement by the waight of his wickednesse or by Christes iustice to be chardged with all Surelie if his life were not onlie a thousand years for so long almost aid some of the olde Fathersliue but if it were ten thousand yeares he could not fatisfiefor so much temporall paine and bebt of sinnes as reason law and Gods iustice would and well might charge him withall though the great debt of euerlasting damnation by Christes grace were mercifully remitted in the Priests absolution at his confession before Threfore whether the partie liue or die he is in debt for such penance if rigour were shewed as so great sinner deserued And if he liued ten thousand yeares he were bound in his life time and in his body to accomplish as he might the due penance for his desertes and if he die straight vppon his repentance he is not lesse bound by suffering paine and punishment in the next world to fullfill the same For gods iustice leeseth no right because man leeseth his life FVLKE As priuie as you make your selfe to the Churches meaning the popish Church could haue no good meaning in graunting pardon for so many thousand years yea for so manie hundreth thousand yeares which the Church of Christ for a thousand yeares after Christes ascension neuer heard of Some part of the fault is laid vpon printers and writers which for lucre haue increased the numbers but in the end the greater numbers are coufeised for otherwise the bulles of lead as dumme as they be would crie out against you But whereas these yeares be expressed in pardons in titles of praiers or vse of certaine creatures the last of these are said to be sanctified and made holie by Gods worde and praier Why Sir All the creatures of God are sanctified in the lawfull vse of them by the worde of God and by praiers as the Apostle teacheth vs to which no such pardon is annexed Who is he then that despising the holines giuen by God to all his creatures in the ordinarie vse of them taketh vpon him to adde agreater holines to certeine creatures to applie them to another vse and ioyne not onelie holines vnto them but also remission of sinnes and of paine due for sinnes to the vse of them for which he hath no word of God to warrant him and therefore can haue no praier to helpe him surelie this can be none other then he that exalteth himselfe aboue God which can make Gods creatures more holie then God hath made them But now for this number of yeares wherof you make your Audit at your pleasure valuing mēs offences in a heauy ballāce to make your popes pardons seeme more probable saleable your account neuertheles will fall short of many thousand yeares by your former reckoning You confessed in
proofe or authoritie you doe so confidentlie affirme ALLEN And yet I talke not now of taking or deliuering anle man out of Purgatory so much sooner as so many daies release doth import when he is in it alreadie but I meane as I often saie for the simples sake of him that is yet aliue and in the Churches iurisdiction and therefore may haue by the keies of the Church a pardon of his dets either all or part to preuent the paines of Purgatorie or discharge the debt thereof before that terrible daie come when it shal be actuallie required And in this sense vndoubtedly are the great number of yeares daies to be taken which be exceeding necessarie to procure mercie in these euil times wherein we may behold the pitifulwaste of Christian workes euerie where and litle penance to be done no not of the better sort of Christan people As for the other disobedient children that euerie way laugh their mother to scorne whether she vse sextritie of discipline or lenitie in remission they haue no part neither of the Churches blessing nor of the holy workes of Saintes nor of Gods owne peace and pardon Our Lord giue them the grace of repentance that they may haue a tast either of the Churcher discipline or of her mercy and lensty FVLKE You talke and meane that men should make haste while they are aliue to take their pardons whereof perhapes you are a proctor or pettie marchant vnder the Pope not regarding so much what the Popes iurisdiction is ouer poore soules in Purgatorie as how to get monie out of liuing mens purses for pardons and dispensations to mantaine you in your traiterous popery Your complaint of litle penance done is vaine hypocritical seeing you your selfe by mantaining of pardons are occasion that none at all need to be done of them that haue mony to paie for them God open the eies of the simple if it be his will to see your treacherie and either giue you true repentance orels that which your treasons heresies hypocrisie haue long agoe deserued It is prooued as wel by sundry examples of the old law as by Christs one often fact his Apostles that inioyned or deserued punishment may be released by the gouernours of the Church in their pardons THE 9. CHAP. ALLEN Some may here maruel perchance that such power should be giuen to mortall men as to remit such great portion of penance as by iustice ought to be enioyned or such a number of yeares as are appointed for satisfaction correction of former misdeeds thereby to remooue from the partie the heauy hand of god prepared for iudgement who would not wonder much hereat if they considered that the debt of hell paines and eternity of punishment which incomparablie exceedeth manie thousand yeares might by the Priestes office and alwaies is in the due execution of the sacrament of penance fully remooued from the partie penitent And where mercy putteth away deserued damnation there may much lesse force of grace turne awaie the punishment of Purgatorie being not transitorie and equivalent onelie to the penance of a number of yeares prescribed In which case if the Church of God should haue no preheminence now after the incarnation of Christ since which time the waiet of mercie towardes mankinde must needs be much enlarged our state gouernment should be much inferiour to the regiment and to the priesthood of the old law which trulie did in al things but as a shadow and figure resemble the Maiesty of our Churches prcheminence especiallie there where mercy grace were to be shewed which came by Christ Iesus Behold then some sleppe of this most excellent power giuen to our chiefe Priestes in the persons of Moses and Aaron whoe are noted in the booke of Exodus and Numbers meruelouslie to haue procured Gods mercie and sometimes by force of sacrifice praier and singular zeale to hauereleased some great portion of the paines and punishment which God himselfe by his owne mouth and determination had laied vpon the people With what meruelous confidence of his office and pitie of the afflicted sort did one of them crie out vnto god to holde his hand and pardon the people after they had deserued se great punishment for worspiping the golden Idoll of the Calfe in the wildernes Lord saith Moses this people hath committed an horrible sinne and they haue erected golden Gods Forgiue them this sinne Lord or ells if thou wilt not dash me out of thy booke to which thou hast written This gouernour and this priest praied not after a common sort for pardon of the peoples punishment but he claimeth it wish confidence and in a manner requireth it as by his iurisdiction and office Such was the force of praier and priesthood before Christs spirituall souer aignitie was honoured in the worlde otherwise then in a figure And yet god in a manner was at that point with them then that he would pardon punish at their pleasures For when the sinne was exceeding greeuous he maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he should not stay him nor his anger from punishing of the offendors Let me alone Moses saith our Lord suffer me to be angrie FVLKE Men may iustly maruell that you professing methode doe set the Cart before the horse and frame of your building the roofe before the foundation but if they consider that this way you take is of more force to confounde a simple witte then to teach a matter plainlie they maie cease to maruell and acknowledge that the compasse of your cause whereof you speake in the beginning will abide none other order But to the matter and argument of this Chapter it hath bin answered before that in the discipline of the Church the gouernours thereof haue power vpon good consideration and triall of the offenders repentance and not otherwise at their pleasure to release enioyned time of repentance which was enioyned for none other end so much as to bring the party to repentanes and thereof to assure or satisfie the Church But as the discipline of the Church militant serueth for the onelie time of her warfare in this life so the gouernors of the Church haue no authoritie either to inioyne or to release out of the compas of this life And therefore this power of binding loosing vpon earth cannot be extended to anie purgatorie paines or rather pickpurse after this life and consequentlie it can be no shadowe to couer the filthie and blasohemous nundination and chaffering of the Popes pardons for thousands and hundreth thousands of yeares What authority the ministers of the Church haue in remitting sinnes hath beene handled sufficientlie before They are Gods messengers to declare his forgiuenes to them that trulie repent and so they are to release the bande of discipline in open offenders where the fruites of repentance doe appeare Your argument that the priesthood in the new law is of more power to purchase mercie then in the
of them The example of Aarons intercession as he was the high priest shewed the effect of Christes priesthood of whome he was a figure whose perfect sacrifice represented in the incense was a sweete sauour of reconciliation vnto God for the preseruation not onelie of the Israelites but of all Gods elect both from temporall and eternall destruction This example of Aarons incense therefore is as farre differing from the Popes pardons as Aarons office differeth from Antichristes presumption ALLEN But it were to long to make rehersall of all such punishments as God hath afflicted his people with all for sinne and yet hath beene either wholie put of or much thereof abated by these priestes euen of the olde lawe when they had no warrant promise nor commission in sacrament or otherwise either to binde or loose as by iurisdiction or anie otherwise but by their praiers where ours of the newe law and testament haue expresselie receiued a full power and commission concerning the same Therefore now in the new lawe and in the daies of grace where mercie and iudgement be met together truth and peace be ioyned we shall finde expresse examples of iustice and iudgement on the one side and grace and mercie on the other not onelie in the gouernment of Popes and Bishops but in Christes owne regiment and his holie Apostles from whome to our priestes all this power prooceedeth In them then of whome heresie and falshoode doe stande in awe let vs see whether anie examples maie be found of pardoning the paine due for sinne The seuen deuils possession of one womans bodie was no small punishment for sinne yet when it pleased Christ he both forgaue her the sin discharged her of that horrible punishment for the same she had a graund pardon a plenarie Indulgence because she loued much Yea a woman thae had committed adulterie and therefore by the law subiect to death was pardoned by Christ not onelie of her sinne and damnation but of that penaltie which by Gods law shee was subiect vnto for the same sin wherby he declared that he had full power not onelie to remit sinnes but also to giue pardon for any temporall punishment prouided by law for sinne Where are they woman that doe accuse thee quoth Christ Here is none here said she Lord. If none haue condemned thee goe thy waie therefore and sinne no more And this is the 8. of Saint Iohns Gospell FVLKE Yf the Priests of the old law had no warrant promise or commission to binde or loose any waie but by their praiers for as much as the dutie of praier is not proper to priests but common to al faithfull persons you can prooue no shadow of the power of Priests in releasing Gods punishment by their putting of or abating such punishment by praier onelie Although you saie vntrulie that they had no warrant of binding and loosing in sacrament or otherwise For they had power and commission to separate the cleane from the vncleane to exclude from the participation of the Sacraments and sacrifices to cast out of the sinagogue and to receiue againe But thereof I will not dispute at this time That is a greater matter you speake of that Christ himselfe gaue a pardon Who doubreth but that Christ had fullnes of power to pardon according to his diuine pleasure Yf the Pope may doe whatsoeuer Christ did let him caste out Deuills clense the Lepers raise the deade yea let him make another worlde But where you saie that the adulteres Iohn 8. was pardoned by Christ of the temporall penaltie that shee was subiect vnto by Gods law for her sinne that was stoning to death you speake beside the Gospell for there is no one worde to prooue it but rather Christ sheweth that he had not to do with ciuil punishments as when he refused to deuide the inheritance betweene the brethren and discouereth the hypocrisie of the Pharisies who when they had no authoritie to execute any offendour by death beeing restreined by the Romane lawes and power come to tempt him that either he should giue sentence of her against the law of God or ells seeme cruel in pronouncing sentence of death against her whose life the ciuill authoritie did spare What is here like the Popes pardons or what hath any pardon of Christ like to the Popes pardons ALLEN Which example I alledge the rather because Saint Augustine noreth it as a strange power and iurisdiction that should remit the punishment enioyned by the law it selfe for a publike crime where the person was taken with the manner Yea he applieth it to the Priests and Bishops and prooueth that it becommeth them at the lest to make intercession to the temporall officers by occasion for the release of offendours even where they be subiect vnto the appointed punishment of the lawes Wherein he saith that though they cannot by their authoritie commaund their release yet that it behoueth the Ciuill Magistrates to release the paine where they doe make request For which cause Macedonius a Magistrate had challenged Saint Augustine or rather asked him the question why Bishops did so much intermedle in the temporall iudgement for procuring pardon to offendours in so much that they would not take it well if they obtained not the remission of the parties punishment for whome they made intercession To whome Saint Augustine answereth trimelie and largelie where amongest other things he saith Ipse Dommus intercessit ne lapidaretur adultera eo modo nobis commendautt intercessionis officium Our Lord himselfe made intercession for the woman taken in adultery by that fact commended vnto vs the office of intercession And Saint Augustine excommunicated Countie Bonifacius that he tooke from the Church an offendour and put him to execution when he came to the Church for mercy pardon So prone hath Gods Church euer beene to remit the paine for sinne deserued not onelie where she had full authoritie to pardon at her pleasure but euen there where it could not otherwise be had but by intercession to other men who had to doe therewith FVLKE You quote Saint Augustines epist. 54 ad Macedonium as though he should note it a strange power and iurisction that should remit the punishment inioyned by the law it selfe for a publike crime But there is no such note of any such strange power and iurisdiction in all that Epistle In deede he supposeth that this dutie of intercession for offendours is commended to the Ecclesiasticall persons by this example and that Magistrates are to be mooued with pitie to pardon offenders at their request But he speaketh not of any power or iurisdiction in this intercession but of humble petition Our Lord him selfe saith he was a meane among men that the adulteres should not be stoned and by that means commended to vs the duetie of intercession sauing that he did it by terrifying that we do by petition For he was the Lord and we are
argument he asketh him what he can laie against these witnesses As though it were not the easiest thing in the worlde to answere that all these though the noblest the best and worthiest of credit in their time yet were to far distant from the place where he liued to be eie witnesses of his naughty behauiour And therfore whatsoeuer they did write must needes proceede from the false suggestion of his enemies Where otherwise it is not credible that the Duke of Saxonie vnder whom Luther liued if he had known him to be so vile a person would haue suffered him to liue much les would haue reformed religion according to his preaching From Luther thus summoned to appeare he taketh vpon him as the Pythonesse plaied with Samuell to call vp Caluine out of hell to confesse that he kept a Nunne fiue yeares in his chamber vntill she was great with childe by him and that he married her to an Apostata channon that dwelled at Lausanna And this he saith that all the world knoweth If you aske him by what testimonie he produceth a slaunderous libellintituled passauant Parisien printed at Paris 1559. Against the falsehood whereof which neuer deserued credit with anie reasonable man the wholl citie of Geneua is readie to giue testimonie vnder their common seale if neede were that there was neuer any colour of such a slaunder so impudentlie deuised which in deed sufficientlie confuteth it selfe that in so manie yeares and among so manie enemies as Caluine had both in that city and abrode it could neuer be broched vntill the yeare 1559 which was 24. yeares after his comming to Geneua which vile slaunder Fowler in the description of his infamous picture setterh forth with blasphemous abusing of the holy name of the Gospell to signifie the most vile and filthie act of lecherie From Caluine our Frarine passeth to Beza whome with like impudencie he burdeneth with two hainous crimes and yet so confidentlie that he doubteth not to speake vnto him in these wordes Denie if thou dare Theodore Beza denie if thou canst for shame Would you not thinke he had manifest proofes of the crimes in such sorte obiected Let vs heare then what they are First he chargeth Beza to haue sold his eccleslasticall liuinges which he had in Fraunce before his departure to two diuers men for readie monié For which double dealing he was denounced excommunicate and so proclaimed in all the market places of Parris To prooue this crime he quoteth in the margent the preface of Bezaes confession But in that preface Beza indeed cōfesseth that the reuenewes of those Church liuinges which his friendes had procured for him were a great let to him for a long season to make open confession of his faith from the sweetnes of which gaine as a filthie dogg from greasie leather he could hardlie be driuen awaie vntill almightie God by an extreame sicknes so waked him out of that securitie that immediatlie after his first recouerie he left at once his countrie Parents and friendes and departed with his wife vnto Geneua But of selling his benefices in such an vnhonest manner there is no mention but contrariwise in the same preface he defieth all the world for any other crime of dishonestie then the setting forth of certaine wanton verses which were made when he was a child and printed while he was vnder the age of twentie yeares The second crime obiected is that he maried an other mans wife who was a tailor dwelling in Harpe street at Paris whome Master Charkes Censurer out of Bolsec affirmeth to haue dwelt in the Calender street that you maie know how wel the witnesses agree togither with further slaunderrs as that shee was called of Beza Mistres Candidae or mistres Bewtie in his bawdie verses Whereas it is well knowne that Beza in that poeticall fiction deuised after the imitation of auncient Poets meant no special person and least of all could meane his wife for that in those verses he commendeth Candidae being great with childe to the Gods Whereas his wife neuer had anie childe by him Further he saith that shee fled to the stewes because her husband hauing taken her in adultery had giuen her a gash with a knife in the hippe A pretie inuention if the gash had bene in her face or in anie other part of her bodie that might haue bene seene with honestie some or other should haue beene witnes of the scarre and therefore it is placed where none for shame might demaund the sight for triall An other cause of her flight vnto the stewes was as he saith because she had bene put in prison for that she fetched a friscoll when she was dawnsing in a tauerne with her customers said Hoigh one leape more for all Christian soules A sorie cause why she should flie to the comme stewes because shee had beene imprisoned Is it not more like if any such thing had beene or if shee had beene willing to depart from her husband that shee hauing so many customers as this tale pretendeth and specially Beza who could spend seuen hundred crownes by the yeare as he confesseth would not haue sought aid of him or them rather then to haue cast her selfe into a place of such publike infamie But all this fable is vtterlie denied of Beza as containing no sparke of trueth for his wife whom he maried priuilie in Paris in the presence of one or two onelie of his friendes was of so godlie and honest behauionr that she would not consent to the match but vpon expresse promise and condition that assone as he could conuenientlie al impediments set asside he should carie her into the Church of God and openlie confirme the matrimonie betweene them and also that in the meane time he should enter into none of the Popish orders both which conditions he faithfullie performed Here isnothing therefore brought against Beza or his vertuous wife but accusations without witnes slaunders without proofe lies without colour or shew of trueth The like I saie of that generall railing which followeth both against the schollers of this gospellish congregation as he scornefullie termeth them and the Mistres of the same whose wickednes in all kinde of horrible sinnes he affirmeth to be so great that if the lot had bin betweene the Protestantes and the papists which order of iustice he wisheth had bin obserued that whether haue most wickedly trāsgressed gods and mans laws should haue gone first to the gallowes there had not beene one Protestant left aliue to holde warre against the Papists I am ashamed to vse any wordes in confutation of such a monstrous a lie which no eninmie of the Protestantes being in his right wittes doth thinke in his conscience to bere any credit or similitude of trueth Many called Protestantes haue beene wicked liuers but that all should be condemned in capitall crimes beyond the moste wicked of the Papists it is too beyond measure a moste pestilent but yet a riduculous slaunder But