all traitours they are all I say traitours euery brother deceaueth another All men contemne me all men hold me in execration If these and other lyke places shal be vnderstand so vniuersaly as they appere to be spoken then must we be compelled to say that no true fearer of God remayned in Ierusalem when the Prophetes did preach but that all were blood thirstie all auaricious all idolaters and all dumme dogges the contrarie wherof is euidently declared For Isai had the children whom the Lord had giuen vnto him who albeit they were holden as monsters amonge men yet did they patientlye abide the Lord. Ieremie had Baruch his faithfull scribe not withstaÌ„ding his weakenes and infirmitie Abedmelech feared the Lord was fauourable to the Prophete and therefore saued he his soule for a praye and was deliuered from that day of vengeance And therefore these vniuersall sentences must also be restreyned and kept within their own boundes like as these All haue left me all seke the thinges that apperteine vnto them selues and not those thinges that be of God Which senteÌ„ces except they be restreined we shall condemne the dearest children of God who in Paules daies did valiaÌ„tly fight against the prince of this world These examples of the one sorte of the other I haue adduced to lette the simple vnderstand that such generall sentences of necessitie must be so restreined that difference may be kept betwext the elect and the reprobate For els we shall do nothing in explaning scriptures but confound light with darcknes For if the wordes of our Master Christe Iesus saying All shal be taught of God shal be so generally vnderstaÌ„d that no exception be admitted then of necessitie it is that all men and euery persone shall come to the true knowledge of Christe Iesus â–ª for of that knowledge doth he speake in that place But the contrarie thereof is moste euident euen by Christe Iesus his owne wordes who putteth a plaine difference betwext them that be giuen to him by his father and betwext them that be not giuen But now let vs briefly consider what sinners they are whose death God will not but rather hat they conuert lyue Sainct Ihon in his Epistle saith If we say we haue no sinne we deceaue our selues the veritie is not in vs. If we coÌ„fesse our sinnes he is faithfull iust to remitte to vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes c. And after Who soeuer commiteth sinne transgresseth also y â— law for sinne is the transgression of the law And ye know y t he is reueled to take away our sinnes and in him is no sinne As many as byde in him y t is in Chriiste Iesus sin not who soeuer sinneth hath not sene him nether hath knoweÌ„ him c. He y t coÌ„mitteth sinne is of the deuill for the deuil sinneth froÌ„ y e beginning c. who soeuer is borne of God committeh not sinne for his sede abideth in him nether can he sinne because he is borne of God Of w c wordes it is euideÌ„t y t there be two sortes of sinners the one be they who mourne lameÌ„t and bewaile their owne wretchednes and miserie vnfainedly before God coÌ„fessing not onely that their hole nature is sinfull and corrupt but also y t dailie they so offend y e Maiestie of their God y t most iustly they deserue the tormentes of hell if Christes iustice Christes mediation w c by faith they embrase should not deliuer them from the wrath to come To these is not sinne imputed for y e blood of Christe purgeth them from all sinne his aduocation and intercession maketh to theÌ„ an enterance to the throne of their fathers grace To theÌ„ is giuen the spirit of sanctification w c from time to time as it reueleth their sinnes so doth it mortifie purge the same Not that euer in this life gods elect hath bene are or shal be so cleane purged from sinne y t the flesh lusteth not against the spirit as some times affirmed the Pellagians those that then were called Cathari that is cleane purged and now also do the Anabaptistes renew the same most pestilent error by the which Christ Iesus his iustice his office and perpetuall mediation is vtterly destroyed in such sort I saye are not gods childreÌ„ purged in this life that nether they fele sinne nether yet the motioÌ„s entisemeÌ„tes of the same But they are so purged y â— sinne raigneth not in their mortall bodies for the sede of God which is the vertue power efficacie and operation of his holie spirite suffereth them not to delyte in sinne but as they are first called from darcknes to light froÌ„ the bondage of sathan to the libertie of gods children so when they sinne as there is none that sinneth not they are called againe by true repentance to their former societie and felowship with Christe Iesus The death of such sinners did God neuer will nether yet can he will for from all eternitie they were his elect childreÌ„ whom he gaue to his deare Sonne to be his enheritaÌ„ce whom the Sonne receaued into his protection and sauegard to whome he hath manifested and to the ende shall manifest him selfe and the louing kindes of his heauenlie father In whose heartes he writeth the law of God and maketh them to walke in his commandementes â—uer thirsting to a further and more perfect iustice then they find within them selues by reason of their corruption The death I say of those sinners God will not but he will that they repent and liue The Apostle saint Peter saith The Lord that hath promised is not slow but he is long suffering toward vs while that he will none to perish but will receaue all to repentaÌ„ce The Apostle here meaneth not y t al without exception shal be receaued to life by true repentance but y t the cause why God so long deferreth as it were y e extreme iudgement is y â— the electnomber of gods children may be complete as answere was giuen to those y â— cried vnder the aulter to be reuenged vpon the tyrannes that dwell on the earth of these his elect children God will none to perish as before is said But there is an nother sort of sinners farre different from these For nether are they displeased w t theÌ„ selues nether yet hate they iniquitie but against gods expresse coÌ„mandementes furiously they runne w t Cain to murther the innocent with Pharao to oppresse the people of God with Iudas to betray the knowen and professed veritie and finally so delyte they in all filthines impietie that they can not repent The eyes of such be blinded their heartes are hardened they are giuen ouer in to a reprobate minde And for theÌ„ doth not Christe Iesus pray and therefore they can do nothing but headlonges runne from euill to worse as the deuill to whose tyranny they are committed doth driue them till finally they come
hereof let vs compare the deniall of Peter and y e defection of all the Apostles with the sinne of Dauid Albeit Peter was not called to be a wordlie priÌ„ce as Dauid was yet I thiÌ„k ye wil not denie but to be called to the office of an Apostle to be Christes scoller the space of thre yeres to be so familiare with Christ y t he alone with other two did se Christ their master traÌ„sfigured did heare y â— ioyfull voice frome heauen â–ª did se Moises and Helias speak with him my trust is I say y t ye will not denie but that those were graces no thing inferior to Dauids kingdom temporall and yet how horribly y t Petet did denie Christ Iesus ye are not ignorante Yea but say ye Peter wept and soght grace with repeÌ„tance But I ask when the holie Gost doth answere y â— it was after the cocke had crowen and that Christ Iesus had looked vnto him Proceded y t looke I besech you from loue or hatered It should seme in dede by the effect that it came from loue for then it is said that Peter remembered the wordes of his master and so weÌ„t furth and wept bitterly By all liklihode then were his masters vordes before qwyte blotted oute of his memorie But God be praised we nede not to depend vpon vncerten coniectures The fall and deniall of Peter as in an other place we haue declared came not by chance as a thiÌ„g whereof Christ Iesus was ignoraÌ„t He did forese it and before speaketh it And what coÌ„fort gaue Christ Iesus vnto him â–ª before he pronounced that sharp sentence before y e cock crowe thow shalt denie me thries This comfort I say which oght of all faithfull most to be exâ—olled Simon SimoÌ„ beholde SataÌ„ hath desired you that he may sift you as wheat but I haue prayed for the that thy faith faile not and thow being conuerted confirme thy bretheren Did Christ pray for Peter knowing that he should denie him so he affirmeth Doth the praier of Christ Iesus and the effect thereof vanish in a moment God for bid that such impietie take place iÌ„n our heartes The Apostle doth witnes that as his sacrifice is euer recent before God so is his praier effectuall euer for his elect Doth God vtterly hate detest and abhorre such as for whom Christ Iesus praieth yea commendeth to his mercie before they fall iâ—n to danger my hope is that the godlie will not so iudge The same I might proue by the stowte denial of Thomas besides the defection of all the rest who after that the glad tydings of Christes resurrection was confirmed by the testimonie of many did obstinatly say except that I put my fingers in the holes c. I wil not beleue Here ye se was no repentance of his former infidelitie but rather an augmentation and increase of the same And did it procede frome loue or from hatered that Christ cometh vnto him and doth offer to satisfie his curiositie in all thinges willing him to be faithfull and not to remaine an infidele Consider now how simply and plainely we haue opened our myndes vnto you God graÌ„t you his holie Spirit rightly to vnderstand and charitably to interprete the thinges that be spoken c. Now will I briefly go throughe these scriptures which ye abuse and violently wrest against vs not making so long discourse to amend your iudgemeÌ„t as I haue done to fore For if things alredie spoken shall not profit I must confesse my self destitute of counsell for this tyme. The wordes of the prophete where necgligently ye name Zacharie for Malachie nether serue your purpose nether yet are verefied in vs. for we be not as the priestes who in those daies permitted plaine iniquitie and contempt of God and of his statutes vniuersaly to be done by the people and yet they did not oppone them selues to the same Read the Prophete and conâ—ict vs of those thinges if ye can We are sorie that ye haue no better opinion of vs then that our hole studie should be to entyse the people to sinne Not that we do muche feare that by your wordes ye can persuade any except your own faction â–ª and hardly those to credit you in that behalf for all praise be to God our liues doctryn and correctioÌ„ of vice do witnesse the contrarie but our greatest sorow is for your condemnation which doubtles must ensue suche wicked iudgement if hastely ye repent not As the Sunne is not to be blamed albeit the carion by the heate thereof be more and more corrupted so is not our doctrine althogh that carnall men thereof take carnal libertie for that ye knowe did ensue the doctrine of S. Paule We do no les affirme both in worde and writing theÌ„ here you do affirme to wit That he who committeh sinne is of the deuil but herein I suppose standeth the difference that you and we vnderstand not that phrase alike we vnderstand that the man coÌ„mitteh sinne whose hole studie mynd and purpose frome tyme to tyme is bent vpon iniquitie and suche do we affirme to be of the deuil who sinneth from the beginning If you vnderstand that euerie action committed against the law of God maketh a man the sonne of the deuil we must liberally speak that so we do not vnderstand the mynd of the Apostle for plaine it is that he meaneth not of actioÌ„s particulare be they neuer so grieuous whereof a man after repenteth aÌ„d from the same desisteth but of a continual exercise delite and studie whiche man hath in sinne And this is plaine I say by the wordes which immediatly procede and go before he that exerciseth iustice saieth he is iust eueÌ„ as he is iust he y t coÌ„mitteth sinne is of the deuil for frome the beginning the deuil sinneth Here is the exercise of iustice put in contrarietie to the committing of sinne An exercise we know requireh a continual studie and practyse I think ye will not say that one iust worke maketh a man iust and so consequently the son of God except he procede frome iustice to iustice The same say we must be vnderstand of the committing of sinne for nether Adame nor Dauid did any longer committ their former sinnes then by grace they began to repent And so did they not remaine vnclean persons nor in bondage of the deuil Neither yet can it be proued that euer they were membres of the deuil nor of his kingdom albeit willingly they made them selues slaues to him whom Christ Iesus notwithstanding did vendicate to him self and delyuer from that thraldome Because of the fre gift of God his father they did appertein to his kingdome nether euer be you able to proue by any of these sentences that euer they were out of the election as before is declared The place of the prophete Oseas is of you euill vnderstaÌ„d â–ª the lacke of the hebrew tongue may be the cause of your
affections to his will reueled but also our reason appeare it neuer so probable With the which if we stand not satisfied but quarreling with God will or dare in a blynd fury ask to what purpose commandeth and speaketh he one thing meaneth the contrary That deuelishe presumption shall fall down from the clouds and break downe for euer the frantick heads of such vile slaues of proud lucifer And therefor be ye warned for vengeance is prepared for all such vnreuerent reasoners in gods perfect but yet profound iudgementes as ye declare your selues to be in this which foleweth If God say you in respect of his reueled will wold not that Adam should falle but in respecte of his secrete will he wold Adam should fallâ— then did God will two contraries which is impossible Answere Impossible we confesse it to be that contrarietie should be in that will which in it self is simple and one But how shall you be able to proue that God in reueling his will to Adam had none other purpose nor will but onely that Adam should not falle because say you he said thou shalt not eate I answer so said he to AbrahaÌ„ thou shalt take aÌ„d offer thy sonne in sacrifice And yet we knowe that the contrarie had he determined O crye you God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other and yet ye abhorre nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing as that AdaÌ„ should not offeÌ„d will the cotrarie as that AdaÌ„ should offend Answer God if his good pleasure be towch your heartes with such vnfeined repeÌ„tance that you may vnderstand howe horrible be these blasphemies which thus in your furious blindnes you spew forth against gods supreme Maiestie for before I haue said they are not spoken against vs. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirme as that of which you gather these blasphemies aÌ„d albeit we did yet it were as easie for vs to dissolue aÌ„d vnlouse such deuelish knottes as by instructioÌ„ of your father you knit to trippe y e soules of the simple as it is for y e fote of the valiant strong maÌ„ to burst a sondre the spiders webbes which y e venemous spider maketh to catch the impoteÌ„t flies and feble gnattes And now left y â— you should glorie as thogh yo r reasons yet stoode sure Let vs trie aÌ„d examine euery membre aparte God abhorreth say you a dooble heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other I answer That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor bodie like as man hath so must not his words cogitations and thoghtes be compared to ours for as we be corrupte liers and vaine so where we do speak one thing and think an other we do meane deceate fraud and destruction to our brother to whome we promise trueth fidelitie conseruation to our power But God according to the puritie and perfection of his godlie nature in speaking to his creatures and in creating of them must not absolutely haue respect to theÌ„ but also to his owne glory for what reason is it that God of nothiÌ„g shall make that câ—eature by whome his glory shall not be manyfested and therefor in speaking to Adam and in giuing a lawe to him God had respecte to his eternall counsell purpose as before we haue spoken and hereafter shall rehears But still crye you that yet we burden God w t that which he caÌ„not abyde in his creatures that is that he should speak one thiÌ„g as that Adam should not haue fallen and that he ment the contrarie for answer I ask of you if ye will binde God to that lawe which he hath imposed to his creatures And if ye will leaue none other libertie to God his soueraigne maiestie then his lawe hath permitted to men subiecte to the same and if ye dare promise to your selues that authoritie ouer God girde your loines and play the stroÌ„g champions prepare your seates appoint your iudges cite and adiourne him to appeare at a fixed day to rendre a reason a make an accoÌ„pte before you of his vniuersall regiment in which no doubt ye shall finde many things more repugnant to your reason then this You think I mock you in that I wil you to cite and call God to an accoÌ„pt in very dede I do for as your blasphemie pride is vtterlie to be abhorred so is your vanitie more worthie to be mocked then your simplicitie in that case to be instructed for what was he euer yet amongest the most ignorant ethnicks so foolishe or so presumpteous but that he did confesse that the workes and wonders of the supreme God were exempted from all lawe and censure of mans iudgement But in your presence God shall haue no libertie to command or forbid any thing to any of his creatures but that he must nedes absolutely will the same and for no cause or respecte may he will the contrarie but that he shall haue a dooble heart he shal be a disseÌ„bler cursed be your blasphemie that causeth me thus to write and in him there shal be coÌ„trarietie this is the reuerence which ye beare to gods infinite wisdome in all his workes to the ground whereof ye can not atteine by your corrupt reason that you burst forth in scoffing mocking and blasphemie But yet to come more nye to the mater I denie that iustly you can conclude any contrarietie to be in God albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eate and yet in his eternall counsell he had determined that Adam shoulde eate neither yet I say caÌ„ you be able to proue that he spoke one thing willed the contrarie because he pronounced this sentence in what so euer day thow shalt eate of this tree thou shalt dye the death but rather we maye most assuredly conclude that both the precept the penaltie threatned to ensue the violation of it was a plaine and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternall counsell as also that they were the meanes by the which the secret will and good purpose of God toke effecte amongest men was notified vnto the world for if God had not before appointed the falle and the remedie for the same he had not imposed vpon him a lawe the transgression whereof should bring death but should haue suffered him to liue without such feare and bondage as we shall do when victorie shal be giuen ouer death which is the sting of sinne ouer sinne also which had his power by the lawe And therefor I say that gods commandement forbidding Adam to eate and the punishment of death denounced if he did eate were nothing contrary to his secret will but were the very wayes appointed by his infinite wisdome by the which he had determined that his secrete will concerning the mysterie of maÌ„s redemption should be notified put in execution
any of you think that these thiâ—gs are but imagined by me let him vnder his oâ—ne name impugne them and I shall shewe witnesses which at this time for diuers causes I omitte Your iesting at vs your bold iudgement and condemnation by you pronounced against vs we remitt to him who shortly shall declare which of the two sortes be drowned in infidelitie and leauing gods plaine scriptures haue folowed the vanities of their owne imaginations Now shortlie to that w c foloweth in these wordes THE ADVERSARIES An other proofbring you of that which is written 2. Reg. 24. God moued Dauid to nombre Israell Iuda To which I answer that which is write 1. Parali xi Sathan stood vp against Israel prouoked Dauid to nombre the people I am certen that if it were not for this manifest scripture you wold attribute the wicked prouocatioÌ„ of the deuil to God but here we may see agreat light to vnderstaÌ„d many other places of the scriptures which semeâ—h to affirm God to be the author of any euill for by these two places we may see that God is called to be the author of the thing which he suffered as because he suffered the obstinat resisting of Pharao he is called the author thereof So because he left Semei to the lewdnes of his owne mynd suffered him to curse Dauid God is called the author of his cursing so the partriarkes being left of God did sell their brother aÌ„d here now Dauid being left of God to noÌ„bre the people by the prouocation of the deuil whereuÌ„to he was no more moued by God theÌ„ wheÌ„ he killed Vrias to this you say that we do but flatter God wheÌ„ we do assigne any difference betwene his wâ—l his permissioÌ„ or his sufferaÌ„ce for God permitteth nothing say you but that which he will if ye meÌ„t so that God permitteth nothing but that which he will permits I would them holde your saying true But for as much as you declare you meaning to be this that what so euer God permitteth he willethe it absoutly this is an erronâ—ouse saying â–ª for God permitteth suffereth all the wickednes which is donne vpon the earths and will you say that God willeth absolutly all such wickednes God for bid the people of God should be so persuaded to beleue such abomination I say you are the Propâ—etes of the deuill which teache such filthie doctrine and ye say ye be the prophetes of God nowe of necesitie one of vs lieth for if you be the Prâ—phets of God then I lie and if you be the Prophetes of the deuill they do ye lie and if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs doeth lie which must be by the permissioÌ„ and suffring of God not by his will wherof it foloweth that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God The Lord was angry with the careles heathen because when God was a little angry with the Israelites they did their best to destroye them Then suffered God the heathan thus to punish his people more greuously theÌ„ he willed them to do wherfor there must be difference betwene the will of God and his suffering Obed the Prophetâ—reproued the Israelites because 〈◊〉 afflicted Iuda more greuously then God wold they should haue donne â–ª 〈◊〉 must the Israeliâ—es haue donne this by the permission of God nâ— â—his will The prodigall sonne wasted all his goods riatously if you say that so was his fathers will iâ— should be a great absurditie wherfor it must nedes folowe that the father suffered that which he willed not The faâ—her willed both his soÌ„nes to go aÌ„d labor in his vineyarde yeâ— not boâ—h but one of them did his fathers will so the father sufferred the other which weÌ„t not against his will Thus we may see a great difference betwene the will and the permission of God a notable saying we haue in the prophecie of Ieremiâ— against this error which teacheâ—h â—haâ— sinne is coÌ„mitted not onely by the permission of God but also against his will they haue saieth he builded â–ª high places for Baal to vowe their sonnes daughters vnto Moloâ—h which I neuer commaÌ„ded â—hem neither came it euer in my â—hoght to make Iuda sinne with such abomination Here we se that Iuda committed that which was contrarie to gods reueled will for I neuer commanded theÌ„ saieth he and against his secrete wâ—ll for iâ— came neuer in my thoght saiteh hâ— TheÌ„ did they sinne by the permissioÌ„ of God against his wil. Thy wayes thy thoghtes broght the to â—his saieth the Lord. If it was the lordâ—s secrete wil that the Israelites should sinne and it was also the Israelites thoghtes will to sinne theÌ„ were they bothe of one mynd And as he 〈◊〉 out wardly by the word willeth theÌ„ not to do euil so they out wardlâ—e did promise to kepe gods law wourshipped him with their lippes By 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semed that both in wardlie aÌ„d out wardly they were coÌ„forme to God afâ—er your opinoÌ„ wherfor he oght not to hauâ— bene offeÌ„ded with theÌ„ I am ashamed to write the abominable absurditeis which may be gathered of your poisoned doctrâ—ne The lord shall raise vp the spirit of the king of the Medes which hath alredie a desire to destroy BabiloÌ„ by what meanes 〈◊〉 the lord stirre him vp to do any thing which alredie is bent to do it â–ª but by suâ—fering him And yet is the Lord called the doer therof And â—here for it is written Let one deceaâ—full offender com against anoâ—her and one destrâ—yer 〈◊〉 me against an other â–ª for what neded God to moue the wickd â—o do 〈◊〉 kindly which being giuen ouer of God do imagine nothing buâ— wâ—ckâ—dnesand his master the deuill stepeth neuer but is alwayes with him teâ—pting him with euill thoghtes and promoking him to perfourm his wâ—ckâ—d imaginations ANSWER The more nie ye draw to the end the lesse ye proue your purpose but the more ye vtter your malice aÌ„d venim No iust caus se we why that y e place of the bookes of the kings shall be explained by that which is written in the chronicles in such sorte as you require to wit that nothing be left to God in that greuous offence of Dauid except an ydle and onely permission for the holie Gost feareth not to say The wrath of the Lord God was yet moued against Israell and stirred vp Dauid against them that he said go and nombre Israell and Iuda Here plain it is that the eternall God who was angrie against Israell dad stirre or moue Dauid to nombre them not by an ydle permission as you alledge but by such motioÌ„ as nothing repugneth to his iustice Where ye say the other place explaineth this for it affirmeth that the deuil stood vp against Israel and prouoked Dauid to
he loued vs and hath sent his Sonne the propitiation for our sinnes so that bothe those apostles in plaine wordes do speake that which before I haue affirmed to witte that God loued the membres of Christ Iesus euen when they were enemies aswell touching their knowledge and apprehension as also touching the corruption of their nature which was not regenerate And so I conclude as before that the loue of God to vardes his electe is stable and immutable as it which beginneth not in tyme neither dependeth vpon our worthines or dignitie which trueth is contrarie to that which I perceaue ye holde and affirme Thus far I trust we haue sufficiently proued and that by plain scriptures and by no patched vnreasonable reasons as the author of your booke accuseth vs. That God hath his electe whom in Christ Iesus he hath chosen and that of decreed purpose to giue them life Which purpose counsell and loue of God is sure stable and immutable Now resteth to proue that God hath reiected some and also to note the absurdities which folow vpon your doctrine and so shall I not be compelled after in the discourse to spende tyme and trauell to confute your error That God â—ath reprobated any appereth to you horrible Yea and ye affirme God to be more cruell then any wild beast if so he did For thus ye writte in your booke as foloweth THE ADVERSARIE God hath geueÌ„ to all his sensible creatures a naturall inclination to loue their birthes then doth God also loue his birthe as he saith shall I cause other to beare and shall not I also beare Lykewise shall God make other to loue their birthes aÌ„d he not loue his own birthe Man is the birthe and child of God created to his own image aÌ„d similitude as the Prophet saith haue we not alone father Hath not one God made vs And Paul saith we are the generation of God Wherfore God loueth his own birthe that is man Then did he not reprobate and cast away man afore he was For that were a profe that he hated and abhorred his own birthe aboue all other Now there is no wild beast much les any man which wold bring furthe their birth to destruction How much les then becometh it the goodnes of God to make aÌ„d bring furth like to his own image and similitude vnto perpetualâ— confusion ANSWER How bolde how shameles and how blasphemous thou declarest thy self I speak to thee aÌ„d they coÌ„pagnions that collected these blasphemies It shall shortly appere after that I haue by gods grace with simple perspicuitie declared the trueth Trew it is that to the naturall man nothing appereth more absurde nor more repugnaÌ„t to good reason as men term it then that all shall depend vpon gods will and appointment for so think they that God can not auoid the suspition of iniustice yea say they he can not be purged nor made fre from malice and crueltie But such as entryng within them self do but in a parte consider what is their own condition what is there ignorance and how far they are inferiour to y â— angels in iustice aÌ„d knowledge to his holie angels I say that be most obedient and continually stand before his face and yet neuertheles do couer their faces and of very reuerence neither darre nor will rashly behold the brightnes of his glorie If further we shall coÌ„sider y t as in God his wisdom his power his goodnes and mercie are infinite so are his iudgemeÌ„ts and iustice in the self most righteous incomprehensible to the dulnes of our wittes For as his wisdom and power far surmounte all that we can imagin so are his iudgements and iustice a great depe as Dauid affirmeth and in the booke of Iob is planely described able to swallowe vp and vtterly to cofounde all our senses Alas shall I whose corporall eie is so feble and weak that directly it can not behold the son which is a visible creature but that it shall be bliÌ„ded aÌ„d dasylled shall I I say direct the eie of my mynde corrupted by sinne to measure and coÌ„preheÌ„de the brightnes of his iustice who dwelleth in the light inaccessible If man coulde impose or prescribe to God a law aÌ„d measure of wisdoÌ„ power mercie aÌ„d goodnes so y t none of theÌ„ should otherwise be in his eternall God heade the maÌ„ could vnderstaÌ„d approue the some apperance might they haue to bring his iustice which is no les infinite and incomprehensible then the others vnder the censure and examination of their iudgement and reason But what bolde and foolish presumption is this that man who knoweth not fully what lieâ—h within his own heart shall without all reuerence enter to iudge the secrete mysteries the full knowledge whereof doeth onely abyde in the eternall God head That impudently he shall pronounce this can not be iust becaus we do neither se nor vnderstand the cause of the iustice God graunt vs greater humilitie more reuerence and fear which righteously is called the beginning of wisdom then that so rashly and proudly we shall presume to damne that which we vnderstand not Lest that doing the contrarie that malediction pronouÌ„ced by â— saiah fall vpoÌ„ vs where he saieth Wo be to him that reasoneth with his maker the vessel of claie with the potter Doth the clay say to the potter what makest thow and thy work hath no handes wo be to him that saieth to his father what shalt thow beget This I thoght expedient briefly to admonishe the godlie reader before I did enter in to plane battell with the aduersarie Beseching further such as do not erre in this article of set purpose and malice but rather of ignorance and simplicitie not to be offended as thogh I did stomack against them if at any tyme I shall handle the impudent writer or collector of this booke whose nature is better knowen vnto me then vnto many of them according to his malicious frowardnes But now shortly to the mater The proposition and conclusion of this writer are bothe one to witte God hath not reiected nor reprobaâ—ed anie man His reasons and argumentes as the reader may perceaue are for that were against the nature of God w e he thus proueth God causeth others to beare aÌ„d therefor he beareth And so bringing his argumeÌ„t froÌ„ this similitude God maketâ— beastes loue their birthes therefor â—eloueth his birthes but al men are the birthes oâ— God For God is the father of Adame of whoÌ„ are al meÌ„ borne Therefor he loueth all meÌ„ If he loueth theÌ„ did he roprobate none for that shoulde declare that he hated and abhorred and were more cruell then a wilde beast These be thy argumeÌ„ts blasphemous mouth In answeriÌ„g whereto if I shall seme to excede modestie let the godlie coÌ„sider that thy horrible blasphemies are intolerable And first I call the heauen and earthe the insensible creatures and the iudgement of reasonable men to witnes with me how beastly
For his mouth pronounced destruction against Ierusalem and yet sendeth he the ioyfull tydings of his resurrection to his disciples with that most singuler coÌ„fort that God remained vnto them both God aÌ„d father and eueÌ„ so doeth our Prophet Isaiah for in the oâ—e place he speaketh to the obstinate contemners but in the other place he speaketh to the afflicted children Wey I besech you the scriptures of God with greater reuerence The wordes of Christ ye likewies falsifie for he speaketh not of any common loue which he beareth to all meÌ„ but affirmeth that our heaueÌ„lie Father geueth good thinges or as Lucas affirmeth giueth the holie Gost to such as aske of him Ye must proue first that all aske in faith and according to his will which be the peculiar prerogatiues of the childreÌ„ of God before that Christes wordes can serue for your generall multitude either yet that you shall thereof be able to proue that God loueth all men a like Ye take your pleasure in reasoning with vs whom ye terme Careles by necessitie I will not recompence raling with raling but I pray God that thow the writer of this book shew hereafter greater diligence in godlynes then of many daies thow hast done where so euer thow hast hanted We vse not to subiect God to our corrupt affections but with reuerence and fear we leaue to his godlie wisdom the ordering of his creatures neither yet can you be able to proue that we either by word or writing haue affirmed that the principall end of any maÌ„nes creation was perpetuall paine But we affirme as before we haue declared that God for him self and for the manifestation of his own glorie hath created all thinges But of this we must after more largely speake The finall conclusion which ye collecte of nature is that God hath created none to miserie nor pain For that your master Castalio feareth not most blasphemously to affirme sayiÌ„g y t if he hath so done he is more crewell theÌ„ any wolfe O heauen and earth reuenge this blasphemie That man which here suffereth miserie and much clamitie yea and that also shal be adiuged to the fyre inextiÌ„guible is created of God or as you affirme is the birth of God I suppose your selues will not deny And that he suffereth all miseries by gods iust iudgementes and by his will expressed in his worde the scripture bâ—areth record For God saieth to the woman in sorow and dolor shalt thou beare thy children To the man In the sweate of thy face shalt thow eate thy bread and also cursed is the earth for thy sake Which and many mo places plainely witnes that God hath inflicted pain vpon man whom he hath created You answere That did God for the sin of man I confesse But yet is your foot fast in the snare For after sin man ceased not to be the creature as ye will terme him the birth of God If theÌ„ God be subiect to the law of nature as before we haue said and now agane repete that your vanitie and ignorance may the more appere so that he is bouÌ„de to do the self same thing to his birthes that nature moueth vs to doto our childreÌ„ I ask first why did God suffer man created to his own image to fall in to sin assuredly no naturall father will wittingly and willingly suffer his children to fall into apit or dongeon to destruction And secondarely I aske why did not God who is omnipotent hauing all wisdom and goodnes prouyde an other medicine for man then by death to ouercom so many miseries Thirdly if God wold that none shoulde be borne to miserie why did he not clearly purge the nature of Adam why did he not stay that venom and corruption in our first father why did he permitt it to infect all his posteritie There is no shift that here can serue you For if you say God was prouoked by the sinnes of the posteritie which he did forese to be in them so to do I answer that he foresaw nothing which his eternall and infinit power might not haue remoued aÌ„d remedied if so had pleased his godlie wisedom for then as now was he the God who alone may do what so euer he will in heauen and in earth And further I say that the fouÌ„tain being shet vp the flowing of sin by naturall propagation should haue ceased To gods permission we shall after answer To put end to his mater if ye coÌ„sider nothing els in the great varietie of gods workes but the onely miserie of the sufferer aÌ„d sin which we denie not to be a cause of the same ye haue no better profitâ—d in the schoole of Christ then had the disciples wheÌ„ seing him that was born blind they demanded this question Master say they who hath sinned whether this maÌ„ or his parentes that he should be born blind No other cause did they se of his miserie but sin And to theÌ„ it was straÌ„ge that any man could sin so greuously before he was borne that for the same he should be punished with perpetuall blindnes during his life And that he should suffer such miserie for the offences of his Parentes appered to them to repugne to gods iustice and to that sentence which before he had pronounced by the Prophete Ezechiel affirming that the son should not beare the iniquitie of the father But Christe Iesus in correcting their error giueth to you a profitable lesson if ye can receaue it affirming that neither he neither yet his Parents had sinned that so he should be borne but that the glorie of God should be manifested in him If gods glorie be declared and made manifest euen by the miseries which som creatures sustein Dare you therefor accuse God of creweltie Consider your bold foolishnes and repent your blasphemies before that vengeance strike After that ye haue concluded as you thinke our opinion to be naughtie by arguments drawen from nature you make a bold promes to proue the same by plain scriptutes And yet your first entrance is but by a reason not well grounded vpon these scriptures which ye alledge Thus ye write If God hath ordeined the most part of the world to perdition then were his wrath greater then his mercie but the scripture witnesseth that his mercie is ouer all his creatures Ergó will ye conclude He hath not created the most part of the world to perdition To proue that gods mercie is greater then his wrath ye bring furth the wordes of Dauid Psal. 30. 45. Isaiah 54. and of God him self proclaming his own name vnto Moises for these wordes are not the wordes of Moises as ye alledge but were spoken by God him self in the eares of Moises To the Maior I haue answered before that falsly ye burden vs that we affirme that God hath ordeined y e most parte of the world to perdition for we presume not to define what nomber God shall saue and how many he shall iustly
shal be illuminated and you shall se first that becaus the creator is infinitly good that therefor it behoueth the creatures in their original creation to be good And so I doute not was the deuil created good but in the veritie he stood not And secoÌ„darely that because the iust iudgemeÌ„ts of God were no les to shyne in the damnation of the reprobat then his infinite mercie was to be praised in the vessels of honor it behoued the one and the other to be innocent and good in their creation For if the original had bene euill God iustly could not haue after daÌ„ned that which he had made no better but so we must confesse that it was good that yet willingly corrupting the self maÌ„ made away to the most iust executioÌ„ of gods eternal couÌ„sell And last that the eternall purpose of God might in tyme be notified vnto maÌ„ w c was that God wold bestow greater liberalitie shew greater loue aÌ„d mercie in the redeÌ„ption of maÌ„ iustly damned then that he did in his creation Of nothing he did creat him for his corporall substaÌ„ce was made of the dust which somtymes was not to his own image and similitude to him he gaue the dominion of all creatures these were documents of a true loue But if they be compared with that loue which in Christ Iesus we receiue and that of fre grace they are no thing For what is the dominion of earthlie creatures in respect that we shall reigne with Christ Iesus for euer what were the pleasures and fruites of Paradise in comparison of those heaueÌ„lie ioyes which sainct Paul affirmeth can not enter in to the heart of man If man had stand perpetually in Adam neither had the loue of God so wonderously bene notified vnto vs neither yet had place ben graÌ„ted to his fre grace aÌ„d mercie w c we receiue in Christ Iesus For mercy properly hath respect to miserie But y e cheif comfort of gods children is that as they fell in Adam so are they new transferred in an other that is in Christ Iesus to whom they are giuen and who as before we haue proued hath so receaued them from the hand of his Father that he shall giue lief euerlasting to so many as the Father hath giuen him If ye I say can not admitt these reasons why it behoued maÌ„ to be created good and yet after to fall in to sin and merserie accuse your selues storm not against God for he will not be subiect to your reason iudgements your horrible blasphemies against God and your dispitefull raling against vs at this tyme I will omitt and how impudently ye leap from the purpose of gods reprobation to the execution of his iudgement shal be spoken in weying this your reason which thus foloweth THE ADVERSARIE The scripture witnesseth that we did fall in Adam for damnation came of one sinne vnto condemnation then did we all stand afore in Adam for none falleth but he that standeth If we did all stand then were we all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death so is our standing vnto saluation and lief And to confirme this we haue many testimonies in the word which proue vs to be elected chosen and predestinat to lief afore the fall but none that proue any man to be abiected cast away damned and reprobate afore sinne by which death entred into the world Paul to the Ephesians saieth God did choose vs in Christe before the foundations of the world were laid and ordeined vs before through him to be heires vnto him self and were tâ—erunto predestinat I pray you shew me any testimonie of the scripture which so manifestly proueth that God hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world God hath no respect of persons For he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son vnto the going downe of the same he made bothe small and great and careth for bothe a like for they be all the work of his handes And Esdras saieth it was not gods will that man should com to nought but he prepared lief for them The holie Gost saieth that God hath not made death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the liuing for he created all things that they might haue their being yea all the people of the earth hath he made that they should haue helthe and their should be no destruction in them and that the kingdom of hell should not be vpon earth what can be more plainely and more directly spoken against this error In an other place saieth the holie Gost God created man to be vndestroyed and agane God ordeined man that he should order the world according to equitie and righteousnes and execute iudgement with a true hearte doeth God ordein man to rule the world according to righteousnes whom he reprobated Do men gather grapes as Christ saieth of thornes and figges of thistles euen so euerie good tree bringeth furthe good fruites But a corrupt tree bringeth furth euill fruite a good tree can not bring furth badd fruit neither can a badd tre bring furth good fruite Matth. 7. Either make the tre good and the fruite good orels the tre euill and his fruite euill Either grant man at his creation to be righteous and good and then I think ye will abhorre to say that God afore the foundations of the world did reprobate his good and righteous creature orels grant him at his creation to be an euill and vnrighteous creature Could then righteous iudgement com of such an vnrighteous tree further if man at his creation was an euill things then was he not the creature of God For God sawe al that he had made and they were verie good if man at his creation or afore was reprobate and ordeined vnto death then was man giltie afore the transgressioÌ„ for God damned none but such as be gyltie If he was giltie afore his transgression then was he a sinner being yet innocent and iust afore he euer consenteth or committed sinne And so consequently of this error I may inferre many no such absurdities as should offend any faithfull mannes eares ANSWER As no man of hole iudgement did euer denie that in Adam we did fall so I think you aÌ„d your sect set a part there hath ben none that euer did affirme that in Adam we were predestinat to lief euerlasting True it is y t we stood in Adam created in his loynes but I suppose that ye will not hold that the children had greater priuiledge then had the father Adam did not so stand but that he was subiect to the law the transgression where of made him dettour to death To speake the mater more plainely Adam did so stand that he might and did fall as the euent declared aÌ„d were his children so elect in him that they could not fall so ye appere to conclude For thus ye reason if we did all stand then were we
same And will also touche the rest of these your argumentes so briefly as I can Where ye reason that we were all created in one mā that is in Adam So were we all created in one estate c. If ye vnderstād that we were all created in one estate that is in that estate which shortly was to change becaus that God had so determined in his eternal counsell that by the fall of one his infinite mercie towardes his chosen ād seuere iudgement towardes the vessels of wraith should euidently appere in the tyme appointed by his wisdom If this I say you vnderstand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you Albeit in verey dede in that self same masse there were at once vessels of mercy ād vessels of wraith But because ye open yo ◠minde in the cōtrarie part saing That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief I am compelled vtterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirme that becaus none did stand to the end in that image but all fell euē to death in Adam that therefor neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it was any created vnto lief but in Christ Iesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief euerlasting euen before that euer Adam was created as the Apostle plainely doeth witnes Where ye go about to proue by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world not to be conforme to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant ye declare your self not onely ignorāt vaine and foolishe but also irreuerent and blasphemous against gods maiestie for ye so far as in you lieth spoile him of his Godhead making him to chāge his counsell purpose and ordinance euen so oft as the creatures do chāge where we by the cōtrarie labour to explane ād not to escaip any violēce of your dartes by a bare solution as ye alledge but by the plaine scriptures openly we do affirme that as our God is eternall incomprehensible and immutable so are his counsels constant subiect to no immutabilitie nor change cōstant I say in God him self how so euer thinges change to our apprehensiō And therefor we say that neither in his election before the world neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude was it his eternall coūsell purpose nor ordināce that all the posteritie of Adam should be saued And so can ye not proue that God destroyed any thing which he had builded Albeit to note one thing by the way Paule wold not haue bene so bold as to haue made him self check mate with God he did not I say accuse God of inconstancie neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor althogh he builded the ceremonies vnder the Law and destroied them againe But to our purpose 〈◊〉 I say destroied nothing which he had builded True it is that man destroied that image which God had builded but that building of God was but temporall and for a tyme onely but the perfect building of his churche was in Christe Iesus builded before the foundations of the world were laid which building God neuer destroied nor shall destroy but shall cōsummate the work to the praise of his holie name To him be glory In your hole reasoning of the wordes of the Apostle you do erre in this point as before I haue noted that ye make cōmon to all that which y e holie Gost maketh peculiare to gods elect for ye must first proue all to be saintes by vocation all to be blessed with spirituall benediction and to haue obeyed and all to be builded vpon the foundatiō of the Prophetes ād Apostles before y t ye be able to proue that all were elected and predestinate in Christ Iesus before all tymes That we are created in Christe Iesus vnto good workes is not to be referred as ye think to the common creation of all men in Adam but to the new and spirituall regeneration which gods children haue in Christ Iesus for the which Dauid did pray saying a cleā heart creat in me ô God which is no lesse called the creation of God then was the first creation of man for as man in his creation neither wroght neither yet could deserue to be created so honorable as he was but did suffer the power of God to worke euen as it pleased his wisdom to perfourm the work So in our new creation vnto good workes the onely grace and power of God worketh not onely the beginning but also bringeth to perfection so that what so euer be good holie or iust in vs is gods creation and not our worke God open your eies that ye may se that neither in Adam neither yet in our selues were we created to good workes but in Christe Iesus alone And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fre will Your last as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogisme that is a Sophisticall and fals argument for it stādeth on foure termes against the vse of all good and solide reasoning For thus ye procede Saing we be elect and created in Christe Iesus and seing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christe Iesus then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation Here be plainely foure termes for in your Maior that is in the first part of your argument ye say not we were elected and created in our election and in our creation but we were elected ād created in Christ Iesus The secōd propositiō is most trew to witt that there is no condēnation to them that be in Christe Iesus to such as walk not after the fleshe but what can ye conclude hereof that no damnation say you is in election nor in creation I say your conclusion is fals and vaine for you chāge your termes putting in the last part these two wordes Election and creation where ye oght to haue rehearesed these wordes Christ Iesus for thus you may well procede we be elected ād created to good workes in Christ Iesus but to them saieth the Apostle that be in Christ Iesus there is no cōdemnation Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christe Iesus there is no damnation This argument is formall and true but omitting your foolishnes which oftener I am compelled to shew then gladly I wold I go forward with your wordes THE ADVERSARIE If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world then God reprobated man before he offended And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended then is death the reward of gods ordināce afore the world ād not the reward of sinne But the Apostle teacheth vs that by sinne death entred into the world and also that death is the reward of sinne I pray you doeth either gods lawe or mannes law condemne any man afore he hath offended I am certen ye are not able to
should innocently suffer the death of the crosse But how litle doeth this releue the wilfull sinne of Pilate shall after be declared EueÌ„ such libertie and power as ye had to write these former and subsequeÌ„t blasphemies had Ananias of his land and money receiued for the same For as you being infected with heresie malice and enuie did willingly write and vtter your veÌ„nom so he being auaricious and a dissembling hypocrite did of a fre consenting heart reserue a portion to him self offering a parte to the Churche of God with protestatioÌ„ that it was the hole some thinking therebie to haue obteined the commendation and praise which hypocrites deserue not But what was gods purpose counsell and will in that behalf is euident to witt that we shall abhorre and auoid hypocrisie that we shall not abuse the simplicitie of our brethren neither yet make protestation of that thing before men affirming that to be trew which our own conscience knoweth to be fals But now to the rest THE ADVERSARIE Here I think it is good to answere to their obiectioÌ„s which they collect of Peters denying of his master If these thinges which God foreseeth to com to passe say they may be left vndone then notwithstanding that Christ did foresee that Peter should denie him Peter might yet haue not denied him I answer that notwithstanding Christ did foresee that Peter should denie him yet was not Peter compelled thereto but might haue not denied Christ well say they then should Christ haue ben a lier for he said that Peter should denie him I answer that notwithstanding that Christ so said â–ª yet might Peter haue not denied himâ— aÌ„d Christ notwithstanding should haue ben no lier the like example haue we in the first book of Samuel Dauid asked counsel at the Lord if Saul wold come to Keyla and the Lord said he will com downe then said Dauid will the men of keyla delyuer me and the men that are with me into the hands of Saul And the Lord said they will betray you Then Dauid with his men departed from key la which when Saul heard he left of from his interprise and com not to Keyla Here we se that neither gods foreknowledge which is also conforme to his saing neither yet his prophecyeing did take libertie frome Saul from the men of keyla neither from Dauid and his mâ— nother did Saul come to keyla neither the men of keyla betraied Dauid as the Lord had spoken And Dauid had libertie with his men to auoid the danger notwithstanding God had spoken it should come to passe so all they had libertie yea euen after God had pronounced what shoulde be done In so much that their doings were plaine contrarie to the prophecie of God And yet was God true for he did foresee that if Dauid did not departe frome keyla vsing such libertie as God had giuen him he with his men should be betrayed into the hands of Saule and I pray you might not Peter like wise vsing his libertie auoyd the bushopps howse and so neuer bene tempted to denie Christe Yes I am sure as well as Dauid auoided Keyla ANSWER If you be able to proue that Dauid stoode in also hote a contention against God as Peter did against his master Christ Iesus that Dauid affirmed the expressed contrarie to that which God had pronounced and that God had appointed the certen time aswell when Saule should come as when the men of keyla should betrey him then might ye haue had som coulor to haue compared and matched the deniall of Peter with the flieÌ„g of Dauid But if Peters deniall was with a dooble affirmation pronounced by the mowth of Christe Iesus and if the sentence of God bothe touching the comming of Saule and touching the vnthankfulnes of the men of keyla was conditionall ye be more theâ— bold that take vpoâ— you to ioyn togither things so diuerse Christes wordes to Peter were neither spoken nor ment vnder any condition but were pronounced as foloweth Verelie verelie I say vnto the that the cock shal not crowe till thow shall denie me thrise Which wordes leaue neither libertie fredome nor power to Peter to prouide for him self that this senteÌ„ce should not be true but the wordes and answers spoken to Dauid were according to his questions which were first if that brute of Saules coÌ„ming was true aÌ„d if the men of keyla to whom he had shewen such thankfulnes of late before should becom so ingrate that they should betrey him into the haÌ„des of Sauleâ— And God did answere that Saule should come downe and that the citezens of keyla should betray him But I trust ye will not be so impudent as to denie but that both these affirmations were spoken conditionally to assure Dauid of his doubâ—es and to giue him aduertisment that neither he shoulde abyde the hasard of Saules comming neither yet coâ—mit him self and his meÌ„ of warre to the fidelitie of those that were in keyla Be iudges now your selues how far different be the wordes spokeÌ„ to Peter and the wordes spoken to Dauid Ye procede THE ADVERSARIE But now to returne to our purpose if I shall grante that all thinges of mere necessitie must come to passe according to the prescience and fore knowledge of God then had Adam afore the traâ—sgâ—â—ssion no fre will but of mere necessitie did he offend forasmuch as God did foresee his fall Then had Christ no fre will for God did foresee all that Christ was to do then is God bound him self aÌ„d hath no libertie to do nor leaue vndone that which he doeth forasmuch as he foreseeth all his own workes This belike you will make a goodlie wise God God saue vs frome such dangerous aÌ„d horrible errors and giue vs stedfast and perfect faith to beleue not onely that he is but also that he is an omnipotent God Which frely after his own good pleasure doeth and may do or leaue vndone what so euer pleaseth him ANSWER Before I answer to the absurdities which of our doctrine ye collect I must in few wordes put you in minde that verie foolishely ye ioyn the fre will of Adame with the free will of Christe Iesus and with the libertie of God for Adams will was neuer so free but that it might as that it did coÌ„ to thraldom which weaknes you be neuer able to proue at any tyme to haue bene in Christes will further the will of Adam was alwaies vnder the impire and threatning of a law to which subiectioÌ„ I thiâ—k ye wil not bring God But now to your absurdities If say you I shall grante that all thinges of mere necessitie must com to passe according to the prescience and foreknowledge of God then had Adam afore his transgression no fre will your illation or consequence is fals for the fore knowledge and prescience of God did neither take away fre will from Adam neither yet did
blynd libertines attribute vnto him And assuredly the God of these men is an Idole which oght to be more execrable then all the idoles of the Gentiles And so furth to the end of that chapter he proueth that God committeth no sinne in none of the wicked of the earthe c. Thus far haue I recited the mynd and most part of the wordes of that godlie writer written by him now twelue yeres ago agaiÌ„st the libertines By the which the indifferent reader may iudge whether that iustly you accuse him and vs that we make God author of sinne In the name of God and of his deare Son Christ Iesus whose glorie ye studie vtterly to suppresse I require as before of all those that be placed in auctoritie by his worde whose handes he hath armed with the sword of iustice that earnestly as they will answer before his fearefull throne of iudgement they take triall in this mater that if we be found either in life either yet in doctrine as we be accused that God may be glorified in our iust punishments but if we can not be coÌ„uicted as we fear neither triall nor iudgement that then our accusers may acknowledge their offence The second thing which is laid to our charge is that we cause many other to brest owt and say Sithe his wil and pleasure no man is able to resist let him lay it on him self aÌ„d not vpon vs if any sinne be committed If the blasphemies of the vngodlie should be laid to our charge becaus that we teach a doctrin most true and most comfortable to the childreÌ„ of God then can not the Apostle saint Paul be excused for the same blasphemies were vomited first against him aÌ„d the doctrine which he taught Som crying let vs do euill that good may com of it others let vs abyde in sinne that grace may abound soÌ„ furiously roring as ye do did dispitefully cry wherefor doeth he coÌ„plean who caÌ„ resist his will But was the doctrine therefor damnable or was the Apostle criminal for teaching the same I suppose ye will be more fauorable in this cause then so rashly to condemne him whom God hath absolued If then our doctrine can not be impugned by the plaine scriptures of God why should we sustein the blame of other mennes blasphemies Howbeit in verie dede the blasphemies of none come so plainely to our eares as yours do â–ª for the verey Papistes and the insolent of the world are yet ashamed so impudentlie to lie vpoÌ„ vs. Who althogh they will not folow the puretie of the doctrine taught by vs yet either are they put to silence by the power of â—he holie Spirit orels they inâ—ent som coulorable lies and do abstein from such open blasphemies as you cast owt against God and vs. We lay to your charge say you none other thing then ye your selues do confâ—sse for ye affirme that God worketh all things according to his will and pleasure We answer that maliciously and deuilishly ye wrest our wordes contrarie to our mynd for alwayes we make a most plaine difference betwext the will of God and the will of the wicked and betwext the purpose counsell and end of God and betwext the purpose and end of man as in all this hole processe before intreated the indifferent reader may well consider If ye continue in your blyndnes and furiously cry But ye afâ—irme that without his will and against it nothing is done therefor that men think that euen when they sinne they obey gods will I answer by the wordes of the same writer whoÌ„ before I haue alledged Touching the workes which we committ the will of God is to be considered as he him self hath declared it for in vaine hath he not giuen his law by the which he hath discerned good from euill As for exemple when he commandeth no man to be hurt no man to be iniuried but that equitie and iustice be indifferently kept to all that no man steal defraude his brother that none committ adulterie fornicatioÌ„ or filthynes but that euerie man kepe his own vessell in sanctification and honor Here is the will of God euident and plaine What further pleaseth him in these cases oght no maÌ„ to inquire for we know that if we do these and other thinges that be coÌ„manded and do abstein from all things that be forbidden that then we obey the will of God And if we do not that we can not be acceptable to him If that any man shall steall or committ adulterie and shall say that he hath done nothing against the will of God he lieth most impudeÌ„tly for in so far as he hath transgressed the commandement of God by the which he was taught what was gods will he hath done against his will Let all men now iudge if that we giue occasion to man to flatter him self in sinne and to think that when they committe iniquitie against the expresse commandement of God that then they obey his holie will If any demand whether that any thing can be done against gods will that is if God may not if he wold stay and impede the sinne of man before I haue answered by the mowth of Augustine and now again by Iohn Caluine that nothing is nor can be done which he may not impede if so it please his wisdom yea vtterlye we must eschew that we inquire not of his prouidence which is hid frome vs when that the question is of our duetie His word declareth vnto vs what he approueth and what he condemneth with that we oght to stand content and by the same oght we to reule our liues leauing the secretes to God as by Moises we are taught To make the mater more plaine the case supposed that I be tempted with concupiscence and lust a nother mans wife in the which I long striue and in the end â–ª fathan obiecteth to me this cogitation follow thy purpose for by that meanes thow maest perchance be further humbled aÌ„d after thow maest taste more aboundantly the mercie and the grace of God Should I therefor louse the bridle to my wicked affections should I declyn from the plain precept and enter into the secrete prouidence of God God forbid for that besides the violating or breaking of his commandement were horrible temptation of his godlie maiestie and so in one fact were coÌ„mitted dooble impietie The sinnes I know of gods derest children are greuous â–ª and many and wonderous is the prouideÌ„ce of God working in his saintes but neuer or seldom it is that such perilouse cogitations preuale against them for the spirit of God so rewleth in them thaâ— commonly this sentence of SalomoÌ„ is before their eies such as vnreuerently search out gods Maiestie shaâ—be oppressed by the glorie of the same And so must it nedes com to passe as Iohn Caluin affirmeth that the pryde of such must be punisâ—ed and that with an horrible punishement the pryde of
writing that we affirme that there is no difference betwext vertue and vice that the one nether pleaseth God nether yet the other doeth displease him let vs without mercie die the death But and if the hole scope of oure doctrine tend to the cōtrarie yea if our liues conuersacion how so euer the deuil doeth blynde your eyes be such as they onely may conuict your blasphemie And last if the order of that citie where this doctrine is taught be such in punishment of iniquitie and that without respect of persone that the like iustice hath neuer bene executed against open offēders sithence the daies of the Apostles in any christian comen welth Then can we not cease to desire that this your former blasphemie may be reuenged vpon your owne heades We do not denie but this is one part of our doctrine that as Gods counsel is immutable so is his election sure and stable insomuche that the elect can not finally be reprobated nether yet that the reprobat can euer become elect nomore then the wheat can become darnell or darnel become wheat but do we adde no more then this do we teache men to set cock on hoope and so to let the worlde slide as scoffingly ye write or do we not rather continually affirme that as God of his great mercie hath called vs to the dignitie of his children so hathe he sanctified vs and appointed vs to walk in purenesse and holines all the daies of our life that we shall continually fight against the lustes and inordinat affections that remaine in this our corrupt nature that if we finde not the spirit of Christ working in vs that then we can neuer be assured of our election for the conscience of all such as with out bridle folowe iniquitie can neuer be assured of Gods present fauour during the time that they delite in sinne finally none of your anabaptistical sort require greater obediēce to be giuen vnto God and vnto his lawe then we do except that ye put your scollers in vaine esperance that by the power of their owne free wil they may at length come to such perfection as no sinne shal stire in them But we by the contrarie attributing all to the free grace of God do affirme that continually in this life we must confesse that sinne so remaineth in vs that except that God for Christ Iesus saik did pardō the same his wrath iustly shoulde be kindled against vs. Let all our writings and the hole some of our doctrine beare recorde whether thus we teache or not And are not the liues and honest conuersation of many thousands we praise God of his great mercie professing the same doctrine able to conuince your malicious impudencie how many haue left their countries possessions and lands and for libertie of their cōsciēce onely do liue a sober and contētible lief how many haue giuē daily do giue their liues blood for the testimonie of Christes trueth and for that they wil not defile them selues with idolatrie And yet thou ashamest not to ask how many of thē can we perceiue by their conuersacion that they haue cast of the olde man and put on the new man walking sincerely in their vocacion shal not the great multitude of Christes deare martyres of late in England thou wilt not say that they were all anabaptistes the long pacience of our bretheren in France and that cruel persecution of late risen in Italy Naples and Spaine for Christes trueth onely put thy venemous tongue to silence If I shoulde demande of thee which of the two did moste mortifie the flesh he that for conscience sake leaueth countrie friends riches and honours or he that to gape for worldly promotions or yet for any other purpose doeth couer him self with Esaus clothes I vse your owne termes and so denying what he is wil sweare if nede be that he is not Iaakob which of these two Isay doest thou think to haue come nerest to the forsaking of him self Or yet another whither doth he walke most sincerely in his vocacion that liuing vpon his iust labors is redy to communicate according to his habilitie to the necessitie of his poor bretheren or he who loitring in one place or trotting from countrie to countrie wolde haue all things in common contrary to the ordre of nature and policie or yet the third which of the two doeth most crucifie the lustes and concupiscences of the flesh he that laieth downe his necke euen vnder the axe of a cruell and vniust Magistrate and that also when he suffereth vnrighteously or he that wolde abolish and destroie the good ordinance of God all lawful Magistrates and distinction in policies That you be the one and we be the other of these two sortes of men it is euident ynough And vpon whome the crime cleaueth and iustely may be laied further examination shal declare Nowe come I to the ordre of that Citie in the which this doctrine is taught receiued and mainteined What maketh y e poore citie of Geneua poore I say in mans eyes but riche before God by the plentifull aboundāce of his heauenlie graces what maketh it I say so odious to the carnal mē of this worlde assuredly not this doctrine where with ye charge vs. for that coulde wel please the carnal mā to let him liue at his pleasure without all punishment Is it not the iust rigor of iustice and the seueritie of discipline executed therein in such sort that no manifest offender where so euer he hathe comitted his offence doeth there escaip punishment Is not this it that so doeth offend not onely the licencious of the worlde but euen you dissembling hypocrites can not abide that the sworde of Gods vengeance shal strike the murtherer the blasphemer and such others as God by his worde commandeth to die not so by yo r iudgementes he must liue he may repent And those comon welthes do ye highlie praise where men may liue as thei list be subiect to no lawe nor ordre yea where y e drunkard and such others abhominable persons are permitted to liue quietly finde fauor to escape punishmēt shame But because in y e stretes of Geneua dare no notable malefactor more shew his face all praise and glorie be vnto God then dare the owle in the bright sunne therefor is it hated Therefore it is called blood thirstie and thus blasphemously traduced as after ye write Thou saiest y t amongest vs there is respect of persōs That we preferre the welthie which if they be liberal althogh they be drowned in many vices yet we vse to heale vp their sores c. I am assured y t thy owne conscience doeth conuict thee of a malicious lie in thus writing for thou canst not be ignorant what the citie of Geneua hathe of late yeres susteined for rooting out those pestilent persons who labored to destroy the Lords vineyard planted in the same And what
peruers dâ—ctryne â—e will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the Iewes be deludâ—d That 〈◊〉 they esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence coÌ„mitted by Adam euen so may I collect of your error-for what nedeth Christ to die for them whom nether Adams transgression â–ª nether their own could make them fall from gods election but now I will more largely dilate this argument Election was afore the world when there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sitheÌ„se the world was created because of sinne for had not sinne bene we neded no new promes being alredie iust and holie images of God Now if the elect did not fall out of the election by AdaÌ„s traÌ„sgressâ—on then nede they no redemer being alredie safe by reason of the electioÌ„ in which they were afore sinne aÌ„d remaine still in the same Because as you say the elect nether did nor can fall out of the election Then seing the elect be safe and hole they nede no phisition nether came Christ to call the righteous but â—innâ—rs wherfor the death of Christ as concerning them is in vain they being safe alredie by election The like argument vseth Paul to the Galathyaâ—s if righteousnes cometh by the Law then Christ died in vaine if the elect â–ª be stâ—ll in the fauor of God what nede they of Christ to reconcile them to the father in whose fauore they are alredie Now as touching the other sorte whom ye call reprobates you say they caÌ„ by no maner of meanes be saued yea that Christ died not for them then was Chistes death altogither in Vaine â–ª for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate and the elect haue no nede of it Is not this godlie gere ANSWER In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to proue y t Christes preciouse death was surperfluouse and vaine if the elect did not fall from their election this reason ye vse Election was afore the world wheÌ„ there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sithence the world was created becaus of sinne for had not sinne bene we nedâ—d no newe promes being alredie iust and holie â—mages of God Now if the elect say you did not fall out of the election by Adams transgression then nede they no râ—demer being alredie saue by reason of the election in the which they were afore sinne and remaine still in the same c â–ª In this argument ye commit two fowle faultes The first ye take that for a thing true aÌ„d coÌ„fessed which is fals and therefore by vs alwaies denied for thus ye reason man was elected before the worlde was created but man sinned aftre the world was created Ergo man fel from his election we still denie the conclusion and do affirme that as we were elected in Christ Iesus before all times so did the elect euer remainâ— in Christ. and therfore after that they had sinned it behoued that the promes shoulde be declared that by the same the elect might receaue comfort and be assured of their election Your second fault more declareth youre grosse ignorance in the mysterie of our redemption for from election ye streight waies leap to glorificacion and saluation obseruing nether middes nor meanes which gods wisdome hath appointed and determined to go betwext Trew it is God hath elected in Christ to life euerlasting his chosen childreÌ„ But how Sainct Paul yea the hole scriptures wheresoeuer mention is made of our election ioyneth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him but that he shoulde sustein the punishement for our transgression And that we shoulde receaue life which we had lost in Adam and in our selues by the meanes of his death and resurrection therefore where ye reason if the elect did not fall oute of the Election by Adams transgressioÌ„ theÌ„ nede they no redemer being alredie saued by reason of their election the coÌ„clusion is fals and the reason vaine for the elect haue nede of a redemer not because that they did fal out of election but by reason that they did fal from iustice to sinne froÌ„ obedieÌ„ce to dissobedieÌ„ce therefore nede they a redemer a phisicion aÌ„d one to giue theÌ„ life because y t they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sicknes death by their own traÌ„sgression If ye can proue y t the elect did not sinne that they are noâ— sicke then might ye haue concluded that they neded no redemer nor phisition And so ye might haue proceded in your argument vpon the wordes of the Apostle saing that if righteousnes cometh by the law then Christ died in vaine but seing that all gods childreÌ„ are fallen in to sinne the bondage and miserie wherof they in this lief coÌ„tinually fele how iustly ye may conclude that becaus they remained in gods election and so consequently in his fauor by Christ that therefor they neded no redemer let the indifferent reader iudge If it seme straÌ„ge to you that God loued sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alledged for probation of that part heare what the veritie it self pronounceth So God loued the world saieth our master that his onelie begotten Sonne hath he giuen whom soeuer ye shall vnderstand vnder the name of the world ye can not sâ—clude sinners from it where ye most vnreuerently ask what then nede they of Christ to recoÌ„cile them I answer with greater feare and reuerence then alas you declare euen such nede they haue of Christ as the bodie hath of the soule or yet the liuing maÌ„ of holsome nuriture yea much more for albeit the bodie haue lief by the meanes of meat and drink yet haue the elect nether lief nor reconciliation but by Christ Iesus yea and that by the meanes of his deathe and passion by the which iust payment and satisfaction is made to gods iustice for their sinnes And so are they reconciled who by nature are the enemies to God We do not denie but that Christes death is sufficient for to redeme the sinnes of the hole world but because all do not receaue it with faith which is the fre gift of God giuen to the chosen children therefor abyde thâ— vnfaithfull in iust condemnation God remitt vnto you if his good pleasure be aswell your vnreuerent conclusion as your most vniust accusation in which ye burden vs that we will infect the Christianitie with the chief error with the which the Iewes are infected who esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the sinnes and offences committed by Adam Assuredly I do more then woÌ„der that such impietie shal be found in any creature indewed with reason but I remitt iudgemeÌ„t to God Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE The Apostle saieth God hath frome the begining choseÌ„ you to saluatioÌ„ through sanctifiyng of the the spirit
so shall thy nauel be hole and thy bones strong â–ª And Iâ— but is not we that can fynde out the almightie for in power equitie and righteousnes he is hiegher then can be expressed Let men therefor feare him for there shall no man se him that is wise in his own conceat we must not â—eke out the sâ—cretes of God for we shall not preuaile but bring our selues to consufion If we go about to establishe our opinions by gods secret will we must nedes fâ—ll in horrible darcknes and errors for who can know what the will of God is we must submitt our selues with all humilitie to the word and there with great reuerence search out such things as are written for our comfort and edification which we can not duelie vnderstand without the spirit of God to teache vs as it is written oh Lord who can haue knowledge of thy vnderstanding and meaning except thâ—w giue him wisdom and send thy holy Gost from aboue But if we prepare our selues with râ—uerence to read the word of God to the intent to vnderstand it to our consolation and with humilitie submâ—t our selues to do it God will open to vs so much as is ether necessarie or profitable for vs. ANSWER What confirmation our doctrine hath by the inuincible and most euident testimonies of gods holie scriptures I will not now dispute onely I must coÌ„pleine that maliciously and most impudently ye wrest our wordes and peruert our myndes And for the probatioÌ„ thereof I say that ye are neuer able to shew in any of our writings the wordes and sentences which in this place ye affirme vs to say ye be neuer able I say to proue that we haue written or taught that God by his reueled will will all men to be saued and yet by his secrete will he willeth many to be damned That by his reuâ—led will he willeth no wickednes but by his secret will he will Pharao to be hard hearted Semei to curse Dauid the Patriarkes to sell their brother Ioseph that by his reueled will he wolde not that Adam shoulde fâ—ll but by his secret will he willeth Adam to fall These propositions I say you be neuer able to shew in our writinges nether yet to proue that our doctrine did or doth tend to that end for we constantly affirme that God reueled vnto vs his most holie and most iust wil in his plaine and holie scriptures which do assure vs that a separation shal be made betwext the goates and the lambes that the one shal receaue the kingdom propared vnto them before all beginning and that the other shal be adiudged to the fyre which neuer shal be quenched That God stirred and raised vp Pharao that his power might be declared in him that these wordes God plainely spoke to Moises I know that Pharao shal not permitte the people to depart therefore haue I hardened his heart that I may multiplie my woÌ„ders vpon him that Dauid did represse the furie of Abisai and of his seruantes who wolde haue killed Semei saying suffre him to curse for the Lord hath commanded him the Lord perchance shal behold my affliction and shal reward me with good for his cursing this day That Ioseph said to his bretheren be you not moued with sorow y â— ye haue solde me for the Lord hath sent me for conseruation of a great multitude it is not therefore you that haue sent me hither but God who hath made me father to Pharao and Lord ouer his hole house None of all these I say do we cast vpon gods secrete will as ye falsly accuse vs but we do constantly affirme that his will is so plainely reueled in these maters that such as shall denie any of them to haue bene gods wil can not escape abnegation of his eternall veritie And further we say that the fall of man is plainely reueled vnto vs not onely by experience but euen by that same law which was imposed to him shortly after his creation the transgression whereof made Adam and all his posteritie criminall and giltie to gods iustice that nether against gods wil reueled nether yet against his secrete wil. for by his will reueled can no man further conclude but this that in what day soeuer AdaÌ„ should eate of the frute forbiddeÌ„ that he should die the death But Adam against gods command ement did eat and therefor did he iustly vnderly the sentence of death And thus do we referre to gods will manifestly reueled what soeuer ye imagin that we ascribe to his secret will Nether yet nede you to maruell if ye list to take such paines as to read our writiÌ„ges where that we finde the doctryne that we teach your surmised lie we cast vpon your selues seing that Moises the prophetes Christ Iesus and his Apostles in all writings do affirme the same But yet lest that ye should think that we attribute nothing to gods secret wil I will in few wordes confesse what we teach maintein and beleue in that case And that the rather because you gather agreate absurditie not of our doctryne but of that which ye falsely imput vpon vs in this maner for asmuch you say as the secrete will of God is knowen to none but to him self alone Who hath reueled it to you how can you say this is gods secret will if it was gods secret will that Adam should fall and you knew it â–ª then it is both secret and vnsecret both reueled and vnreueled both knowen and vnknowen What greate absurditie is this To the which I answere according to your impudeÌ„t foolishnes that because you fight with your owne shadowe these yo r dartes do hurt vs nothing for we do not affirme that we do knowe the fall of man by gods secret will but by his will manifestly reueled vnto vs by his holie scriptures Or more plainly to answer yo r reasons which you think inuincible we say that that wil which was secret in God before all time was reueled to man in time by his owne word and that from time to to time the same became more manifest as sainct Paul witnesseth in these wordes To me the least of all saintes is giuen this fauor or grace that I should preach amoÌ„gest the GeÌ„tiles the vnsearchable riches of Christe That I should bring forth to light before all meÌ„ what is y e coÌ„munion of the mysterie w c was hid from all ages in God who hath made all things by Christ Iesus that the manifest wisdome of God may nowe be notified to principates and powers in heauenlie things by the Church according to the fore appointment of the ages which he hath made in Christ Iesus our lorde so that we are now bold to say that albeit no creature did knowe before all time what ordre God should kepe in the creation and disposition of all thinges in time yet may we nowe I say be bolde to affirme that the secrete was hidde in the
donne theÌ„ a iust commandemeÌ„t to witt That he doer haue gods expresse commandement for his assurance And secondarely that he looke and haue respect to the same endes which God hath vttered in his word and last that he do it onely to obey God Nowe proue any of these to haue bene in Semei and I will confesse that ye haue once triumphed I finde that Dauid did acknowledge gods commandement and couÌ„sell and therfor at that time wold he not arme him self nor his seruantes to take vengeance But what commandemeÌ„t of God I pray you did Semei either acknowledge or confesse I finde no mention that he excuseth him self no not by any commandement that he had receaued of God when after he submitteth him self to Dauid in the day wheÌ„ he returned and came ouer Iordane But I finde him plainely to confesse his offence saying Let not my Lorde impute wickednes vnto me nor remembre the thing that thy seruant did wickedly when my Lorde the king departed oute of Ierusalem that the king shoulde take it to his heart for thy seruant doeth knowe that I haue donne amisse If Semei had either knowen any commandement of God or if he had looked to the same end to the which God looked he might haue had plausible reasons to haue persuaded Dauid to haue shewed fauor and mercie vnto him first he might haue said Oh Dauid althogh thow was kiÌ„g and that I did curse the thow oghtest no more to be offended against me then thow wast against the Prophet Nathan for as he had gods commandemeÌ„t plainely to reuele thy sinne aÌ„d sharply to rebuke the same to the eÌ„d that thou mightest be more effectually moued to repentance so had I gods commandement bitterly to curse thee to the end that thou mightest humble thy self before thy God whom so highly thou hast offended These I say I had bene plausible reasons to haue moued Dauid to mercie But the canckered conscience of Semei did witnes against him self y t he to his knowledge had neither commandement of God neither yet that he looked to any purpose or counsell of God but onely to Dauids vtter confusion destructioÌ„ which he maliciously soght And so I say albeit that gods commandement in the self was iust for the purpose and end which he had appointed yet was this commandement hid to Semei and gods purpose also vnknowen to him therfore was his fact neither iustly nor obediently donne for a iust fact as I haue before said requireth a good wil to obey a iust commandement and obedieÌ„ce requireth knowledge of the will which neither of bothe was in Semei Nowe proue if you caÌ„ either iniustice in God who thus doeth vse this wicked instrumeÌ„t or yet in Dauid his sernant who in his testament commanded the dissembled hypocrisie to be punished The rest of your vaine sophisterie which of Castalio you haue begged doeth nothing profit you for albeit we should confesse that it was the will of God in some respecte that Semei should haue an euill and inobedient minde how shall you be able to proue that therfor he did obey God Is it not the will of God that sathan and the wicked world of a wicked and malicious mynde trooble and tempt his children in this earthe Doeth it therfor folowe that Sathan and the wicked obey God or doeth it not most iustly folowe that because God will that our pacience should be knowen that the wicked from tyme to tyme procede in their impietie till the measure be full that therfor they caÌ„ neuer obey God And in this our affirmation we feare not so much the frost nor snowe as that we lament your vncomelye iesting in gods scriptures Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE An argumeÌ„t you make in that place of Genesis where Iâ—seph saieth vnto his brethren God sent me hither for your liues saik and thereafter it was not you that sent me hither but God which hath made me a father vnto Pharao of this do you gather that the wicked dede which Iosephes brethern did in selling him was the Lords dede and secret will But for so much as the patriarckes here committed double sinne first greued their father and secondly they did committe the greatest kinde of these that is to sell a mans child from him which by the lawe â—ght to be punished by death therfor may we see that this dede was not donne by gods will for 〈◊〉 was centrarie to this commandementes neither wil he any wickednes but according to his nature which is euer good he turned their wicked dede to a good end for his seruantes AbrahaÌ„ Isaack and Iacâ—bes sakeâ— for he sheweth mercie to the thousand generaâ—ion of them that loue him this to be so it is plainely proued by the latter chapter where Ioseph saieth vnto his brethren you thoght â–ª euill ouer me but God haâ—h turned it vnto good to do as it is come to passe this day marke well what is here ascribed vnto Iosephes brethern and what vnto God They thoght euill and God turned it to good Then their minds and gods mynde were not all one wherfor it was not gods wil that they should thus do wickedly notwithstanding that this place of the last of Geneses is so manifest and directe against your error as can be yet will you not agree to the trueth but flie to your shamefull shift of gods secret will for here you say that it was gods secret will that this should so come to passe so that the patriarkes thoghtes were moued to do this by God Thus you attribut to God that which is propre to the deuill by the testimonie of the word Wherby we be taught that the deuill moved meÌ„ with euill thoghtes God commandeth vs to resist euill thoghtes which if they come of him then commandeth he vs to resist him self Iames saieth that no man is tempted of God But to moue with euill thoghtes is to tempt all is good which commeâ—h from the father of light wherfor if euill thoghts come from him they must be good then was Iosephes saying vntrewe you thoght euill over me but you grant euill thâ—ghtes to be euill and yet you say that they came from God then may we call God the fâ—ther â—f darâ—knes because from him came euill thoghts which are darknes And wher you sayâ— that God doeth hose things for his owne glory I aâ—swer that saying is but vaine â–ª for we glorifie him wheÌ„ we iudge him worthie to be glorified as Nabuchadnez or being chaÌ„ged into a brutishe nature hauing experience of the iustice power of God he gaue glory to God for as much as he did see iudged God to be iust God wil be glâ—rified of all nations then must gods works be such as all nations may knowe â—hem and praise them yet is â—here no nation which at any tyme shall acknowledge God to be iust for because he punished a man for the offence wherunto he him self did prouoke him The
those that did trouble her By which and many mo promises and threatninges God doeth not meane that any thing was done in Ierusalem which he had not appointed But by the one he did somwhat comfort the troubled heartes of his afflicted people and by the other he did shew the cause why he wold punish those cruell murtherers whose seruice before he did vse in punishing his people And this doeth God most plainely witnes in these wordes I was wrath saith y e Lord with my people I haue polluted myn inheritance and giuen them into thy hand he speaketh vnto Babylon thou didest shewe theÌ„ no mercie but didest lay thy very heauie yoke vpon the ancieÌ„t and thou saidest I shal be a Ladie for euer so y t thou didest not set thy mynd to these thinges neither didest thou remeÌ„bre the latter end thereof Therfor now heare thou that art giueÌ„ to pleasures and dwellest careles She saith in her heart â–ª I am aÌ„d none els I shall not sitt as a widdow neither shall know the losse of children Here of I say it is plaine y t the punishmeÌ„t of gods people as before I haue proued is his owne appointement and will But because the punishers loke to another end therfor are they criminall before gods iustice In adducing both these exaÌ„ples that is of Israel punishing Iuda and of the Babylonians destroying IerusaleÌ„ I finde you in another most grosse error besides this w c I haue confuted For you seme to affirme that if y â— Israelites and BabyloniaÌ„s had kept a measure aÌ„d had not exceded the boundes w c God had appointed and coÌ„manded they had not sinned For say you he willed the one but permitted the other TheÌ„ in so farre as they did his will they sinned not but in so far as they exceded his wil and did more w c he wold not but onely did suffre it they sinned This is your profound diuinitie aÌ„d godlie meditatioÌ„s of God of his iustice iudgemeÌ„tes aÌ„d workes incomprehensible to maÌ„s reason Are you able to proue that Nabuchadnezer came to IerusaleÌ„ or that therin he spilt or his captaines and cruell souldioures one droppe of blood which God in his eternall couÌ„sell had not appointed and willed The testimonies of all Prophetes rebuke your vanitie Ezechiel saith Thus saith the Lorde Beholde I come against thee and will draw my swerd oute of his sheath and cut of frome thee both the righteous and the wicked Seing then y t I will cut of frome y â— bothe y e righteous and wicked therfor shall my swerd go oute of his sheath against all fleshe from the South meaning throw all the laÌ„d to y e north that al slesh may know that I the Lorde haue draweÌ„ my swerd oute of his sheath and it shall not return any more Mark and consider how God attributeth all to him self as after yet the Prophet more plainely speaketh sayiÌ„g And he hath giuen it to be fourbished that he may handle it this swerde is sharp aÌ„d is fourbished y t he may giue it into y e haÌ„d of the slayer c. And I wil powre oute myne indignatioÌ„ vpoÌ„ the in the fyre of my wrath and deliuer y e into the hand of beastly meÌ„ and skilful to destroy Thou shalt be in y e fyre to be deuoured thy blood shal be in y e middes of the laÌ„d aÌ„d thou shalt be no more remeÌ„bred for I the Lorde haue spokeÌ„ it If these be the wordes of him y t onely suffereth and willeth not thinges to be done let y e indifferent reader iudge Why they did sinne notwithstaÌ„ding y t God in his couÌ„sell had willed and appointed this seuere punishment against his people I haue before declared To witte because y t neither knew they gods will couÌ„sell nor coÌ„mandement neither yet had they any respect to obey God or to fulfill his will That Nabuchadnezar was ignoraÌ„t of gods will aÌ„d couÌ„sell is euideÌ„t by y t w c is writteÌ„ in y e same Prophet in y e place aboue expressed For after he was come forth of his couÌ„trie aÌ„d was w t his armye farre proceded in his iourney he was vncerten whether he should go against Rabbath y â— stroÌ„g Citie of y e sonnes of Ammon or against IerusaleÌ„ and so coÌ„mitting the mater to his sorcerers aÌ„d diuines y e lottes being cast he taketh his iourneye agaiÌ„st Iuda aÌ„d IerusaleÌ„ Wherof it is plaine y t he neither knew nor vnderstode by y e motioÌ„ of gods holy spirite his holy wil neither yet coÌ„mandemeÌ„t And in destroieng the Citie and punishing the people who will say y t he or his seruaÌ„tes hated sinne Pride Crueltie Idololatrie and abommations w t y e w c he and his hole realmes were replenished And y e same do I say of y e Israelites who did not onely sinne because they exceded measure in punishing Iuda but because y t against gods law expresse coÌ„mandement they made vniust warre against their brethern They nether loked neither yet oght they to haue loked to gods secrete couÌ„sell but to his plaine law w c coÌ„manded theÌ„ to loue their brethern not to murther not to spoile not to couet c. Against the w c because they did offend eueÌ„ in y e first motioÌ„ purpose of their warrâ— in gods presence they were murtherers theues oppressours couetous persons before y t euer they set their foote forth of their houses And so euen y t w c he in his eternall counsel willed theÌ„ to do did no les displease hiÌ„ as touchiÌ„g their wicked mindes theÌ„ did y t w c you affirme he suffered For euery transgression of his law is before his iustice odious and sinfull If this can not correct your iudgement yet I am assured y t it shall declare your vanitie who dare coÌ„clude y t if the Israelites BabyloniaÌ„s had kept measure in punishiÌ„g Iudah y t theÌ„ they had not sinned But the contrarie I affirmâ— and say y t the first thoght and purpose mouiÌ„g theÌ„ to make warre was sinne before God Touching y e permission of the father towardes his prodigal sonne touchiÌ„g y e â— sonne w c promised to go aÌ„d to labor in his fathers vineyarde weÌ„t not I haue before answered y t similitudes oght not further to be stretched theÌ„ y e minde of the holie Gost is to teach in the same And in these places it is euideÌ„t y t Christe teacheth not how God is coÌ„pelled to suffer many thinges w c he wil not nether yet was it his miÌ„de in those similitudes to teach vs what differeÌ„ce there is betwene gods wil his permissioÌ„ but in y â— one he teacheth y t in God there is mercie towardes the sinner yea towardes such a sinner as vnthaÌ„ckfully and inobedieÌ„tly hath departed from God and y t there be some proude childreÌ„ who by reasoÌ„ of their coÌ„tinuaÌ„ce in their fathers house become disdanâ—ful y t others shoulde de be
it is that ye haue forgotten your selues And last why ye omitte these properties which the scriptures do no lesse attribute to God then any that you alledge Your master and chief champion Castalio now left for your comfort in the description of his God thus writeth But that God whom both nature and reason and the scriptures do teach is ready to mercie and slow to wrath who hath created man of whom all men are borne to his owne image lyke to him selfe that he shoulde place him in Paradise and giue to him the blessed life This God will that all men be saued and that none perish and therfore he hath sent his Sonne into the earth that iustice might superabound wher so euer sinne hath abounded the light of whose iustice doth illuminate euery maÌ„ that cometh in to this worlde Wonder it is I say that ye who soâ—coÌ„stantly haue folowed your master in all this your worke haue dissented froÌ„ him or at least omitted his wordes in these two poiÌ„tes w c in this case be priÌ„cipall For first by his description he will that nature and reason shal no les teach you and your faction God then shall the scriptures So y t he whose workes you be not able to coÌ„prehend by nature and reason shall not be to you the true God And secondarily that except he wil all to be saued and y t the light of his sonnes iustice do so illuminate all men coÌ„ming into this world that where so euer sinne hath abounded there must iustice superabound y t to you lykewise he be no God These be two chief pointes in this coÌ„trouersie For we coÌ„stantly affirme that y e brightnes of our God doth so blind nature and reason as now they be corrupted that the naturall maÌ„ caÌ„ neuer atteine to those thinges w c apperteine to God to the knowledge of his will nether yet to his true honor For we know that y e world hath not knowen God by wisedom but thinking themselues most wise haue becomen most vaine in so much that they haue worshipped the creatures more then the Creator And thus beleue we that nature and reason are not onely vnable to leade vs to the true knowledge of God by the which we may atteine to life euerlastiâ—g but also we affirme that they haue bene maistresses of all errors and idolatrie And therfor say we that nature and reason do leade men from y e true God but are neuer able to teach vs nether to expresse to vs the eternall the trew and euerliuing God the father of our Lord Iesus Christe Further we doubte not to embrase to beleue to reuereÌ„ce and to honor y e maiestie of our God who hath made diuision betwext one sort of men and an other as plainely before we haue proued These being two chief pointes in this controuersie greate wonder it is y t of theÌ„ ye make no expresse mention as Castalio doth in this your descriptioÌ„ Is it because you are ashamed that such darkenes and such grosse ignorance should be in your greate angell of light Iust cause no doubte haue both you and he to be ashamed of your foolish imaginatioÌ„s But yet I feare an other thing more which is this That sodenly you will not committe the greate and secrete mysteries of your profession to your rude scholers For it might perchance offend them if at the first ye should affirme as in your writinges I can shew that saint Paul taught a more perfect way to his scholers in secrete theÌ„ that w c he committed to writing that Christ is not the eternall Sonne of the eternal God that the Godhead of the holy Gost is but mannes imaginations that Christes kingdome shall so florish that wicked men shal vtterly be suppressed euen in this life that Christes iustice aualeth nothing â–ª except man haue a personall perfect iustice within him self that man may fulfill and obey gods holy Law and that Christe hath no prerogatiue aboue his brethern except this that he is called the first begotten I omitte thinges much more absurd because I will not offend the eares of the godly These thinges I say you do not sodeÌ„lâ— open to your scholers but in the beginning with pleasant persuasioÌ„s of good life of mortification of y e power of the spirite w c rightly placed is a doctrine most necessarie ye inflaÌ„be their heartes with a a vaine coÌ„fidence of their owne power streÌ„gth aÌ„d iustice And therafter ye dissuade them froÌ„ all exercises w c may put them in minde of sinne and imperfectioÌ„ which remaineth in maÌ„ For nether will ye y t they frequeÌ„t the publike preaching of y e word neither yet y e administration of Christes sacramentes For such thinges to yo r perfect meÌ„ are nothing necessarie But to be short in the end ye briÌ„g theÌ„ to y e plaine conteÌ„pt of gods free graces offered giueÌ„ to his elect in Christ Iesus For in y e end these be yo r blasphemous voices openly affirmed in your priuie asseÌ„blies what is our ioye but y t we fele no sinne abidiâ—g in vs what is our coÌ„fort but that we be able to fulfil the law and what is our reioising but that we haue a iustice perfect in our selues And thus seking to establish your own iustice nether caÌ„ you nor your scholers be subiect to y e iustice of God But omittig this I returne to your deceitfull craft ye dare not in expres wordes affirme the vaine description of your masters God but yet couertly ye say as much as after shall appere in which thing as ye declare your selues ingrate and vnthaÌ„ckfull that will not support your reuerend master in this his battell w t your open patrociniâ— and plaine defense so do ye shew yo r selues most vnworthye of credit amongest gods children For who can credit those teachers that in y e beginning and for their foundation principalles ioyne together darkenes and light lies and veritie yea that begin with a manifest vntrueth as doth your Master Castalio affirming that nature and reason do teach y e true God vnto vs w c is a manifest lie as before we haue proued If ye say he addeth also that the scriptures do teach God vnto vs I answer that the more is his impudencie and more dangerous is his venom For what impudencie is it to preferre corrupt nature and blind reason to gods scriptures in such manifestation of God as our saluation requireth Did Moses Isai or Christe Iesus wil the ignorant to search nature or to consult with reason who should be the Messias promised or did they not alwayes send such as lacked light to the word which was reueled to the law and to the Prophetes aÌ„d to the scriptures which did beare record of Christ Iesus who is the onely way by the which men come to the true knowledge of the Father True it is that the Gentiles by contemplation of the creatures atteined to that knowledge that there was a God
them which he had chosen to be captaines he promised much more largely that they should be lordes and gouernours ouer many things naming the Towres and land that he wold giue to eche of them Also he said that only the Lantgraue should be pardoned because he hoped that he wold take his part We spake before of the Conuention appointed at Confluence of the noble men in the prouince of the Rhine in the moneth of DeceÌ„ber Vnto which companie of his owne good will the Duke of Saxon Elector Iohn Frederick ioyned him selfe In this Session it was concluded that for the present ayding of the Bishop there should be appointed furth 300. horsemen and 3000. foote men for sixe monethes The CouÌ„tie of ObersteÌ„ named Vlrik was made general captaine ouer this armye â–ª and of the whole warres It was also there ordeined that the whole estates of the Empire should be desired to ayde in this mater â–ª and because the Emperour was in Spaine that FerdinaÌ„dus the king should be desired for this mater to appoint a coÌ„uention in y e moneth of Aprile And also they sent leters vnto the Citie besieged willing them to giue oner their entreprise being so vnhonest and wicked as nothing could be more which thing if they wold not nether submit them selues againe vnder their lawfull magistrates they should be sure that the Bishoppe which now kept the siege should haue the whole helpe of the Empire against them This was about the end of December They gaue answere the 13. of Ianuarie in the yere of our Lord 1535. with manie wordes but nothing to the purpose yet so that they praysed and defended their entreprise and as touching that which was laid to cheir charge for their creating of a king they made no answere at all but in priuate leters written to the Lantgraue they laboured to excuse them selues speaking many wordes of the slawghter and destruction of the wicked and of the deliuerance and reigne of the godly in this life with these letters they sent also vnto him the boke wherof we spake before called the restitution and aduertised him to repent and not to make warre as did the other wicked Princes against them which were innocent men and the people of God The Lantgraue when he had red their leters their boke he noted those pointes that were not alowable in the same and gaue charge to certen of his learned men that they should answere them And because they in feaw wordes and verie darkely affirmed their king to be more chosen of God then by them he asked them why they shewed not y e places of scripture w c made theÌ„ think it lawfully done why they coÌ„firmed it not before by some miracles signes aboue nature For said he God shewed by all the prophetes long before of the comming of Christe so that it was not onely euideÌ„t of what house and linage he should come but also in what time and where he should be borne They did also desire that their cause might come in question Vnto y e which the Lantgraue answered that it was to late seing y t they had taken the power of the sworde into their handes and had bene the authors of so great calamitie For said he all men may plainly see what is their meaning to wit the ruine of all lawes and common wealthes and as their beginning is wicked cursed so also is the desiring of their mater to come in question nothing but feined and dissembled also that he had sent vnto them faithful Ministres by whome they were wel and godly instructed but seing they had refused their doctrine giuing ouer obedience to Magistrates possessing other mens goods hauing manie wiues chosing vnto them a new king denying Christe to haue taken the nature of man of the virgin Marie affirming man to haue fre wil forcing men to put their goods in common denying pardon to those hat sinne all these opinioÌ„s to be vtterly repugnant both to the law of God and of maÌ„ After they had receiued this answere they answered againe in writing withall they sent a boke set forthe in the dutch toÌ„gue of the mysteries of the scripture In their Epistle they published their cause againe anew and defended their doctrine to be good in their forsaid hoke They deuided the whole course and ages of the world into 3. partes and the first age as from Adam vntill Noach to haue perished with the flood the seconde in which now we be to perish with fyre the third they saye shal be new in the which righteousnes shal reigne But before that the last age shal be reueled this that now is must be purged with fire But that say they shal not come to passe before Antichrist be disclosed and his power be vtterly put downe Then shal the ruined seate of Dauid be erecâ—ed againe and Christe shall reigne vpon the earth and all the writings of the Prophetes shal be fulfilled And as touching this present age it is like to the time of the which Isai speaketh For iustice is put to silence in it and the godly are afflicted But now the time of libertie and deliuerance from so many and great calamities is come as it came vnto the Israelites being in the captiuitie of Babylon and the wicked shal receaue the full reward of their wickednes as it is prophecied in the Apocalypse but this restitution to go be fore the world to come to the end that all the wicked being oppressed the seat of iustice might be prepared When the Lantgraue had redde ouer their boke hegaue charge to certen Ministers of his Church to answere vnto it In Februarie the famine was so great in y e Citie that diuers perished with hunger One of the kinges wiues being striken with pitie towardes the people spake by chance vnto the other womeÌ„ and said that she thoght it was not the wil of God that the people should so dye for lacke of sustenance The king which had good prouision in the house not onely to serue his necessitie but also to waste superfluously knowing of this he broght her into the market place with all the residue of his wiues and there commanded her to knele downe vpon her knees and then he cutt of her head from her shoulders and yet not so content after her death he defamed her with whoredome This being done his other wiues beganne to sing and to giue praises to the heauenly father Then dansed they and the king led the dance he exhorted the people also which had no other victualles left saue onely bread and salt that they should dance and be of good chere Now when the day of Ester was come and that there appered no signe of deliuerance the king which had made them so many goodly and large promises that he might finde some meanes to excuse him selfe with all he feined him selfe to be sicke sixe daies togethers â–ª which dayes being ended he came furth vnto the market