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A86328 The foundation of the font discovered to the view of all that desire to behold it. And, the baptizing of men and women when they believe (in rivers and fountains) proved to be a standing ordinance in the Church of Cchrist to the end of the world; by plain Scripture-proof. In answer to Mr. Cook's Font uncovered, for infant-baptism; and Mr. Baxter's Plain Scripture-proof for infants church-membership and baptism. With a word sometimes upon occasion to Mr. Hall's Font-guarded; which is more fully answered by Thomas Collyer. By Henry Haggar, a servant of Christ, and the congregations of his saints. Haggar, Henry. 1653 (1653) Wing H186; Thomason E711_1; ESTC R207114 109,478 143

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now I have answered yours and Mr. Baxters which consists of neer sixty sheets in about eighteen sheets Now let all men judge betwixt us If you shall say it is no full answer I answer It is the better for you and your cause will be the more advanced and I pray take your advantage and spare not But time will manifest all things Againe I remember you say that we are the people that subvert whole housholds To which I answer Sir you much mistake your selfe as Ahab did when he told Elijah that it was he that troubled Israel who answered and said I have not troubled Israel but thee and thy Fathers house in that ye have for saken the Commandments of the Lord and followed Baalim So say I to you It is not we that subvert whole housholds for we baptize none of any house but those that beleeve and manifest their saith according to the commandment of Christ and example of his holy Apostles Mar. 16 15 16. Act. 8.12 with ver 37. but it is you Mr. Cooke that subvert whole housholds when you baptize Children and all and by that means you subvert whole nations for filthy lucre sake so that you may well say with Demetrius Act. 19.25 to the rest of your Brethren Sirs you know that by this craft we get our wealth the which mystery of your iniquity I shall now make more manifest in shewing the reasons of our dissenting from the Church of England and all other Churches which stand upon these four Pillars that is to say 1. Humane learning for take away that which you had at Cambridge or Oxford and you have no Ministry but all men may preach as as well as you nay I might say better 2. Your Rantizing or cozening of poor Babes in their Cradles take away that and you have no Church But others who have faithfully preached the Gospell and converted Souls to the faith and baptized them to in the name of Jesus Christ have a far greater 3. Your Tythes or forced maintenance The wages of unrighness 2 Pet. 2.15 after which you all go astray take away that and we may preach who will for all you By which it appeareth you are all hirelings and will labour no longer then you are paid for it neither do you care for the flock any longer then you are paid for it by all which you make that old papistical Proverb good upon your selves which is No peny no Pater-noster so say all you in effect No money no Preaching c. 4 The Magistrates sword by which you have been upholden these many yeers unto which you have applied your selves when poor Souls out of conscience have denied you to eat of the Milke of that flock which you never sed and to taste of the fruit of that Vineyard which you never planted then you have gone to the Magistrate for assistance that you might take it away by force pleading that you have right to it from the Scripture and that you can prove your right by the Scripture when it is no such thing And thus have you made the Kings and Rulers of the Nations drunk with the Wine of the wrath of your fornications and have caused them by your delusions to give their power and strength to the Beast and to make warre with the Lamb but he shall overcome them for he is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and they that are with him are called and chosen and faithfull See Rev. 17.13 14. These therefore are the reasons of our dissenting from you 1. Because you take Tythes or a forced maintenance even from those which you call Hereticks whereas the Priests under the Law when they were at the worst never demanded Tythes of the uncircumcised Gentiles that were not of their religion but counted it an abomination Againe Though Tythes were by the Law to be paid to the Preists by the people under the Law yet when the Gentiles were converted by the preaching of the Gospell and questioned what things they should observe concerning the Law Act. 15.24 the Apostles answer was ver 28 29. It seemeth good to the holy-Ghost and us to lay upon you no greater burden then these necessary things viz. That you abstain from meats offered to Idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication from which if you keep your selves you shall do well c. these we see were necessary things and this was all the burthen as conserning the Law that it seemed good to the holy Ghost and the Apostles to lay upon the Gentiles wherein there is not one word nor sillable spoken about that intolerable burthen of Tythes which is Antichristian and denieth Christ to be come in the flesh who changed the priesthood and therefore there is of necessity a change of the law see Heb 7.11 12. Now seeing that both the Priesthood and Law are changed I pray where is your ground to take Tythes as Priests or what law compels the people to pay Tythes to you as unto Priests answer if you can But it may be you will say you are Ministers of the Gospel and the Ministers of the Gospel must live of the Gospel Answ Then it seems you have granted they must not live of the Law but Tythes are by the Law therefore they must not live by Tythes Secondly whereas you say they must live of the Gospel I answer why do you not then and be quiet and take what people will give you and eat what is set before you as Christ hath commanded Gospel-Ministers to do and be content Mat. 10.10 with Luke 10.6.7 But it may be you will say this maintenance is not sufficient and if it be left to the people they will starve you Answ If it be not enough then you may labour with your hands the thing that is good to supply your wants as Paul and the other Apostles did which were as good and better Ministers of Christ then you are See Act. 18.1 2 3. with 1 Cor. 4.11 12. and 2 Thes 3.7 8. 2. Whereas you say as I have heard some that the people would starve their Ministers if it were left to them I answer Then they are no Christians as you have born them in hand they were for if they were Christians they durst not let their Teachers starve if he took but any honest course to live But to conclude the truth is if you can neither trust God for a livelyhood whilst you are about his work nor be content with what the people will freely give you nor yet labour with your hands to supply the rest of your wants you are not yet fit for the work of the ministery and therefore you may leave it to those that are better able to go through the work and to be content with the wages that Christ hath allowed them Your next is 1 Cor. 9.7 Who goeth a warfare at his owne Charge Answ It is true neither do any go a warfare at their enemies charges but the