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A44785 Darknesse and ignorance Expelled by the light shining forth, and the appearance of the day. In answer to a book called, Innocents no saints. Published by one Edward Dodd, wherein he hath laboured to prove tythes lawfull, and tithing priests and hirelings to be the ministers of the word, and the masse-house the church; and calls idolatry civility, and heathenish complements courtesie, and hath perverted many Scriptures. His deceit laid open, his vindication made void, and his arguments confounded, and Truth laid open in all these particulars, for the sake of the upright in heart, who rejoyces in Truths prosperity. By one of the lambs followers, who makes warre against the heart of the dragon, and against the rear of the beast. F.H. Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1659 (1659) Wing H3156; ESTC R215412 21,256 31

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his own confession in the fourth page of his book And here he and the rest of the society at Cressage who had a hand in this thing are manifest to be in the steps of the Pharisees whom Christ cried woe against which cast out of their Assemblies and haled the Disciples before the Magistrates and like the envious Jewes that cryed Help men of Israel for these men turn the world up-side down but you are worse then they The Priest was the first fomenter of the breach of peace the Constable and Church-warden his Executioners and yet thou tells of the Quakers being offenders Now all sober people will see your envy deceit and that you are in Cains way and by your false flattery and deceit would justifie the Magistrate for your own ends and cause them to turn the sword against the guiltlesse which should be against the transgressor And who was in the transgression on the Reader may easily judge by that which is fore-mentioned and yet the Priest and you of his Congregation would make people believe that you did not persecute the Priest did give order to pull down the Speaker the Constable and Church-warden they acted and secured your own Neighbours as prisoners your own Congregation swearing against them the breach of peace and getting them shut up into prison and sentence given against them and yet thou wouldst have this called equall proceedings but to that of God in all consciences I leave to be Judge in this things In the fourth and fifth Particular thou saith We have charged to be envious and bitter and malicious against the most eminent Ministers of the Land Them whom thou calls eminent Ministers hath charged us with many false things and have written many false things against us for which thou and they in the dreadful day of the Lord shall give an account Envy bitternesse and malice is put away from us and we envy no man but speak the truth in sobernesse and yet to say a lyar is a lyar or a deceiver a deceiver or an hypocrite an hypocrite when they are so is neither rayling nor malice Christ in whom no guile was found he said they were a generation of vipers and they were of their Father the Devill who were in envy and went about to kill him And the Apostle was not envious when he said O full of all subtlety thou childe of the Devill to one who was doing the work of the Devill and many such workers we finde and many venomous spirits who shoot out poysoned arrows even bitter words and these we must reprove sharply And those things which thou layst to our charge take to thy selfe for the ground of iniquity is in thy heart from whence thou hast uttered forth all these disdainful proud scornful words of which thou shalt be convinced and also reproved when the Lord searcheth thy heart when he brings anguish and perplexity upon thee then shalt thou confesse to his righteous judgement and so thy five Principles I have answered which thou sayest thou hast brought into thy Booke to fill up the blancks they had better have been blancks still then have spoyled so much paper with thy lylying disdainfull scribbles which is not worth the answering In the third page thou saist Thou wilt restate the reputation of the Ministery of England to be Ministers of Christ And for proof thou hast brought Col. 1. 7. and Rom. 15. Those words proves that Epaphtas was a faithfull Minister and that Paul was a Minister of Christ to the Gentiles but what hath this proved as to the Nationall Priests nothing at all and if thou have no better proof then this to bring them into reputation in stead thereof thou wilt bring defamation upon them and when thou shouldst prove them Ministers thou proves that Paul and Epaphas were Ministers will not the least in the truth see thee to be a busie-body but fools will be medling Then thou art offended that we call them Priests for receiving of Tythes I say it 's the most proper for none but Priests and Levites did receive Tythes and how long since is it since they generally called themselves the Tribe of Levi For never Minister of the Gospell nor of the word of reconciliation either received tythes or commanded that they should be payd neither reproved any for not paying but said the Priest-hood was changed and the Law was changed by which tythes were due but thou goes on and makes a sound argument as thou judgest and saith Abraham paid tythe to Melchisedeck before the Law And thou askest how he did give it either by the law of nature which is called the law of Reason or by the light within or by revelation Thou speakst thou knowst not what where readest thou of the Law of Nature called the law of Reason except it be in the devised Fables and Stories of the Priests But what doth this prove Gen. 14. Abraham gave the tenth part of the spoyl which he had taken from his enemies but Melchisedeck first brought forth bread and wine to Abrabam and his company and greeted Abraham and his company kindly and blessed him and Abraham freely gave unto him the tenth part Melchisedeck desired none But dost thou judge that if Abraham had given him none that he would have taken by force the tenth part of the spoyl from him Now what doth this prove for the tything Priests of this Nation they must first do as Melchisedeck did if they will have Melchisedeck for an example he blessed Abraham and brought forth bread and wine unto him and his Army but which of the Priests have done so which have received tythes which is not a gift of the people but a forc't thing from them If this must be thy proof for tythes by the gift of Abraham then let the Priests cease forcing and taking them till people be freely willing to give them and then there will be no complaint But let us reason a little further of this matter Would Melchisedeck have taken the tenth if Abraham had not given it him Or when did Melchisedeck or any before the Law take away the peoples Oxen Cowes Horses Sheep pots and pans and bedding upon which poor people lyes three-fold four-fold and sometime ten-fold that they claim or sue people to Courts throw them into prison till death as many evidences we have in this Nation Either give us a precept or an example before the Law or under the Gospell or else stop your lying mouths and clamorous tongues for ever Dost thou and the rest of the Priests think that wee are so ignorant that we know not the originall of the tythes in these Nations a thing invented to fill the Popes coffers and the rest of the Clergies budgets seven or eight hundred years after the Ascension of Christ All which Tythes and Oblations and Obventions were invented in the Apostacy since the dayes of the Apostles and since the woman fled into the Wildernesse And the man-childe
was caught up to God when all the world wondred after the Beast them they had their rise And when the Kings and Rulers of these Nations did drinke of the Whores cup then they made Lawes to compell the Nations and the people therein to pay the whores Merchants and the Popes locusts which he sent over the Nations to fill the earth with their deceit which Laws stands yet in force as though they were some divine institution but both the tythes and the Law by which they are compelled to be paid we deny and bear our witnesse against as to be things which holds up the Devils Kingdome and the Gospel which the Nationall Ministery holds up and preaches hath no more ability in it to procure a maintenance for them then the Papists Gospell did for them So to be brief the Priests hath the Popes wages forced by a compulsory Law made and ratified by them who owned the Popes supremacy Furthermore we assert that tythes were never due by divine ordination but onely to the Priests Levites in the first Covenant nor never were commanded to be paid but in the Land of anaan and who so upholds the Ordinances of the first Priest-hood denies the ordinances of the second So this commandement to pay tythes now to them who are neither of Aarons nor Levies Tribe and by us who are not in Canaan temporall nor of Israel according to the flesh the Commandement by which tythes were due in the first Priest-hood reaches not unto us And after Christs ascension nor one of the Apostles either commanded or required any such practice of the Saints either to Colossia Corinth Antioch Philippi Pergamos or the rest of the Churches of Asia So that it 's evident to all judicious men that this is quite another thing got up in the Apostacy which no Minister or believer ever did own who were witnesses of the second Covenant but any who are not satisfied in this thing by what I have said which much more I could say concerning this thing but I refer them that are not satisfied to a Book called The great case of Tythes stated published by A. P. In thy fourth and fifth page thou art pleading for mastership for thy Ministers and so by thy own argument thou hast proved them out of the doctrine of Christ who said to his Ministers Call no man Master neither be ye called Masters but to oppose this thou brings John 3. 10. how Christ said to Nichodemus art thou a Master in Israel And then thou vaporest and saist these are not the words of Mr. Baxter and Mr. Smith but Christs In some translation it is Ruler in Israel In another Teacher in Israel But it may be some who coveted after mastership as thou dost hath put in Master for Ruler and Teacher but grant the word Master Christ testified that the Jewes and Pharisees that they were called of men Master and reprehended them for it And if he did say to Nichodemas art thou a master he spoke but in their language not with approbation of their being so called for it 's manifest he gave a contrary command to his Disciples and the commands of Christ did not contradict one another And as for Richard Baxter and Samuel Smith whose works thou saith doth witnesse for them beyond thy testimony As for R. B. his works are manifest to be works of darknesse many false lyes and reproaches he hath cast upon the living truth of God and hath been a great opposer of the strait way of the Lord for which the Lord will plead with him and you all in the day of his righteous judgement And as for S. S. let his owne testimony evidence what his worke is who said in the Congregation at Cressage he had look't for fruit seven years among them but found none So it 's manifest he is such a workman as may be ashamed of his work In thy sixth and seventh page thou sayest the Pharisaical Quakers makes voyd the fifth Commandement because they do not put off their hats to politicall and spirituall Fathers as thou calls them and thou heapst up a great deal of Scripture to no purpose not one word in them all doth prove any such thing as putting off hats either to Fathers spiritual or temporall and so thou art a perverter and a wrester of it to thy owne destruction and thou cites Rom. 13. 7. to prove putting off hats render to all their dues tribute to whom tribute and this is the tribute of the Nation thou saith And the 1 Pet. 2. 13. Submit your selves to every ordinance of man this thou bringst Ignorant block shew us either in plain Scripture or example from the Saints where it is commanded or commended or from any ordinance of man or else cease thy foolish clamour and learn a bridle for thy tongue and cease thy foolish inferences If the Magistrates had no better tribute then putting off the hat they would soon be poor Rulers And whereas thou callest it Civill worship doffing the hat and bowing the knee I know no more civility in it then if thou should put off thy Coat or thy Doublet to every one thou meetest with And most of this which thou calls civility is the most practised by them who are the rudest vainest and the phantastickst proud Anticks in the Nations who are full of flattery and deceit and vaine complements and to a proud fellow which hath a gay cloak or powdered hayr and a 〈◊〉 silver lace dawbed upon his cloaths then off goes the hat and the knee bowes and your servant Sir and your servant my Lord or your most humble servant or thrice humble servant when if he were commanded to do service to such a one would not do any thing materiall but disdain him And meet then with a plain man who will not complement and then sirrah unmannerly Clown and be ready to fight and this spirit rules the most in those men who are so full of their Complements that begets one another into pride and deceit and provoke one another by their bad example into deceit like drunkards drinking one to another to make one another drunk it 's like thou wilt call this civility too And if thou wilt plead it 's the custome of the Nation doffing hats and bowing The customes of the Heathen are vain and many In Israel who feared the Lord were not to walk after the customes of the Nations for this deceit was not from the beginning and who ever comes to be a follower of Christ who received no honour of men neither respected persons will deny this deceit Take him for thy example rather then a company of Fidlers and Roysters and Ruffins who are without the feare of God and Christ who is the Saints example he said how can you believe that seek and receive honour one of another So then they were unbelievers who sought and received honour one of another and wouldst thou and the rest who live in deceit
up upon which she sits and upon which the Merchants trade and the Beast and all the false Prophets Deceivers and Antichrists which have all had their rise since the Ascension of Christ we would have these be all shut in the pit again and we would have the Lamb to reigne and the everlasting Gospell to be preached again the power of God and we would have the Earth restor'd and we would have everlasting righteousnesse to reigne in the hearts of people and Lawes as at the first and Counsellors as in the beginning who iudge not for rewards and Ministers such as were in the Primitive times who will preach without tythes hire and set wages and without the Popes maintenance If thou canst receive these things I will shew thee further it may be hereafter if I heare any more from thee And we are the men that are raysed up for the worke to declare against pride in the ground and also in appearance as against Lace Cuffs and Ribbons And thou askes if there be nothing else Hast thou denyed these and the spirit that leads to the abuse of Gods creatures when thou hast I will sh●w unto thee there is something else to be done but if thou doe not obey that which is manifest why wouldst thou know more to adde to thy condemnation And we do not say that casting off these things is all that is required to salvation thou bids us declare if there be any thing else so I shall so that thou hearken to it and receive it else thy condemnation shall be greater then if I had written nothing Thou must repent of all thy sinne and turn from it and know the judgement of God for it and deny thy selfe in every thing and lay downe thy life also and take up his Crosse daily and be crucified to the world and cease from all thy owne words actions and thoughts and come to taste of death before thou come to know him to live in thee to be thy salvation canst thou do this when thou witnesseth this done then thou shalt know further what God requires but a terrible day will come upon thee before these things be fulfilled in thee though thou be more stout then thy fellowes I know him who is able to break thy horn which thou hast exalted against the Lamb of God and his followers And for thy exhortation Not to seed on husks take it home to thy selfe for thou hast nothing else to feed upon the words of the Saints at best without the life or else some innovated invented trumpery of the Whore of whose Cup thou hast drunke makes thee speak forth all these venomous words against the life and power of God in his people And thou concludes What thou hast written is as much for our Conversion as Refutation Both alike indeed for thou hast done neither but hast conceived and brought forth winde and spent thy time for nought Alas poor man tellst thou of converting who art not come out of the grosse pollutions of the world who art not ceased from drunkennesse and art pleading for Masse-houses Tythes Hirelings and Popish inventions and art offended we should declare against Ribbons Cuffs and Lace what shouldst thou convert any too except to make them two-fold more children of the Devill And what shouldst thou refute or confute Wilt thou say one shall not steal and dost thou Wilt thou say one should not be drunk and art thou And wilt thou say one should forsake all sin and yet say none must be cleansed from it but be alwayes miserable men and wretched men Be first convinced in thy self and turne from thy evill deeds before 〈…〉 more of converting or refuting any For 〈…〉 when all shall be set in order before thee what thou hast done and thou shalt receive according to thy work and thou shalt then see this worke to be for condemnation which thou hast published against the truth which shall and must abide for ever and they that are in it and walk in it shall be everlastingly happy and shall reigne as Kings and Priests unto God for ever and over all deceit and shall live to confound all the children of falshood in all their devices THE END