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law_n knight_n sir_n thomas_n 18,158 5 10.1448 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A86467 The grand question concerning the judicature of the House of Peers, stated and argued And the case of Thomas Skinner merchant, complaining of the East India Company, with the proceedings thereupon, which gave occasion to that question, faithfully related. By a true well-wisher to the peace and good government of the kingdom, and to the dignity and authority of parliaments. Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680. 1669 (1669) Wing H2459; ESTC R202445 76,537 221

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a_o jurisdiction_n especial_o when_o many_o in_o number_n be_v produce_v and_o some_o of_o all_o time_n and_o in_o every_o king_n reign_n of_o which_o the_o record_n can_v be_v have_v which_o show_v a_o continuance_n of_o and_o so_o a_o unquestionable_a right_n to_o such_o a_o power_n one_o or_o two_o or_o twenty_o then_o in_o the_o negative_a that_o the_o lord_n do_v not_o do_v so_o in_o such_o and_o such_o case_n nay_o i_o say_v more_o be_v the_o number_n equal_a as_o many_o in_o the_o negative_a as_o in_o the_o affirmative_a yet_o it_o can_v not_o disprove_v their_o jurisdiction_n it_o will_v only_o show_v that_o their_o lordship_n be_v free_a agent_n to_o do_v it_o or_o not_o do_v it_o as_o they_o see_v cause_n but_o their_o jurisdict_n on_o remain_v still_o enure_v to_o do_v it_o whensoever_o they_o will_v and_o when_o all_o be_v do_v i_o may_v say_v all_o this_o be_v nihil_fw-la ad_fw-la rem_fw-la and_o concern_v not_o the_o point_n in_o question_n which_o be_v if_o the_o lord_n have_v do_v well_o or_o ill_o in_o relieve_v skinner_n against_o the_o east-india_n company_n for_o he_o be_v not_o relievable_a a●_n the_o common_a law_n as_o have_v be_v show_v and_o if_o he_o have_v not_o be_v relieve_v there_o have_v be_v a_o failer_z of_o justice_n so_o as_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n of_o their_o lordship_n act_v in_o that_o particular_a to_o keep_v up_o the_o public_a justice_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o all_o precedent_n and_o all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o urge_v to_o show_v that_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n ought_v not_o to_o meddle_v with_o matter_n determinable_a at_o law_n be_v in_o truth_n out_o of_o door_n and_o can_v not_o concern_v this_o house_n of_o peer_n which_o never_o do_v it_o but_o the_o contrary_a for_o whensoever_o it_o appear_v that_o any_o business_n before_o they_o be_v proper_a to_o be_v try_v at_o law_n they_o present_o dismiss_v it_o yet_o since_o their_o right_n be_v question_v they_o must_v defend_v it_o though_o they_o give_v 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communem_fw-la or_o tobr_v this_o or_o the_o other_o action_n for_o neither_o law_n nor_o equity_n in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o the_o inferior_a court_n can_v relieve_v he_o for_o the_o loss_n of_o his_o real_a estate_n in_o the_o indies_n the_o judge_n say_v he_o be_v not_o relievable_a for_o his_o house_n and_o island_n so_o as_o none_o of_o those_o precedent_n be_v applicable_a to_o the_o point_n in_o question_n not_o that_o the_o law_n even_o in_o the_o ordinary_a execution_n of_o it_o provide_v not_o for_o the_o punishment_n of_o all_o crime_n it_o declare_v against_o and_o condemn_v the_o fact_n but_o can_v not_o reach_v the_o person_n to_o punish_v he_o when_o he_o have_v commit_v that_o fact_n in_o a_o foreign_a country_n ubi_fw-la lex_fw-la angliae_fw-la non_fw-la currit_fw-la and_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n have_v but_o help_v the_o law_n to_o inflict_v such_o punishment_n upon_o offender_n as_o by_o the_o law_n be_v due_a to_o they_o which_o otherwise_o they_o have_v escape_v and_o be_v it_o but_o this_o it_o sufficient_o justify_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o lord_n in_o that_o particular_a case_n then_o as_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o that_o house_n in_o the_o general_a it_o will_v be_v make_v as_o apparent_a as_o the_o sun_n at_o noon_n how_o they_o have_v in_o all_o time_n exercise_v it_o to_o the_o relief_n of_o all_o person_n who_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o their_o relief_n even_o for_o thing_n do_v within_o the_o kingdom_n where_o the_o law_n have_v provide_v a_o remedy_n they_o apply_v it_o some_o time_n themselves_o will_v take_v the_o pain_n in_o case_n that_o deserve_v it_o where_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n extraordinary_a to_o move_v they_o to_o it_o and_o when_o they_o be_v at_o leisure_n from_o the_o more_o weighty_a and_o important_a affair_n of_o the_o kingdom_n some_o time_n they_o will_v send_v it_o down_o to_o the_o inferior_a court_n to_o do_v it_o for_o they_o and_o give_v they_o authority_n for_o it_o which_o they_o can_v not_o have_v do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o have_v it_o themselves_o for_o nemo_n that_fw-mi id_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o certain_a rioter_n 11_o h._n 4._o n._n 38._o in_o the_o exact_a abridgement_n who_o they_o turn_v over_o to_o the_o king_n bench_n and_o give_v those_o judge_n authority_n to_o the_o end_n the_o business_n where_o the_o law_n have_v not_o provide_v there_o they_o will_v not_o meddle_v themselves_o and_o declare_v it_o so_o that_o none_o else_o neither_o shall_v presume_v to_o meddle_v as_o upon_o the_o petition_n of_o martin_n chamberlain_n in_o that_o 14_o e._n 2._o p._n 409._o who_o upon_o the_o suppression_n of_o the_o knight_n templar_n desire_v to_o be_v put_v into_o the_o possession_n of_o a_o manor_n which_o the_o templar_n while_o they_o stand_v have_v hold_v of_o he_o the_o answer_n be_v quod_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la lex_fw-la ordinata_fw-la there_o be_v no_o law_n ordain_v in_o the_o case_n and_o because_o the_o law_n have_v not_o determine_v how_o those_o land_n shall_v be_v dispose_v of_o the_o lord_n will_v say_v nothing_o to_o it_o but_o will_v it_o not_o be_v say_v that_o this_o make_v good_a what_o the_o commons_o object_v against_o the_o lord_n retain_v this_o cause_n of_o skinner_n because_o some_o part_n of_o it_o be_v not_o determinable_a in_o westminster-hall_n whereas_o there_o be_v no_o law_n concern_v those_o point_n till_o there_o have_v be_v one_o make_v their_o lordship_n shall_v not_o have_v meddle_v with_o they_o as_o the_o lord_n in_o that_o parliament_n of_o e._n 2._o will_v do_v nothing_o in_o chamberlain_n case_n because_o the_o law_n have_v not_o provide_v for_o it_o and_o as_o in_o those_o two_o case_n mention_v by_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o that_o of_o a_o inheritrix_n forfeit_v by_o her_o husband_n default_n where_o as_o the_o statute_n of_o westminster_n the_o second_o express_v it_o a_o durum_fw-la est_fw-la be_v in_o the_o case_n and_o that_o of_o the_o hospital_n of_o st._n leonard_n 2_o h._n 6._o n._n 37._o which_o have_v a_o clear_a right_n to_o a_o corn_n rent_n yet_o the_o lord_n can_v not_o relieve_v they_o but_o both_o be_v fain_o to_o have_v act_n of_o parliament_n this_o receive_v a_o twofold_a answer_n one_o that_o there_o be_v other_o motive_n in_o this_o case_n to_o make_v the_o lord_n retain_v it_o and_o give_v skinner_n relief_n here_o be_v a_o poor_a man_n oppress_v by_o a_o rich_a company_n with_o who_o he_o be_v no_o way_n able_a to_o wage_v law_n and_o that_o consideration_n have_v in_o all_o time_n prevail_v with_o that_o house_n which_o be_v compose_v of_o person_n of_o generous_a and_o noble_a spirit_n who_o can_v not_o see_v poor_a man_n oppress_v without_o feeling_n in_o their_o heart_n a_o inclination_n and_o
of_o these_o several_a offender_n but_o admit_v they_o have_v particular_o impeach_v every_o one_o of_o they_o which_o be_v more_o then_o to_o desire_v such_o a_o delinquent_n may_v be_v bring_v to_o his_o trial_n and_o that_o the_o lord_n will_v do_v justice_n on_o he_o as_o they_o find_v cause_n and_o much_o more_o then_o only_o to_o design_n the_o crime_n and_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o lord_n to_o find_v out_o the_o person_n for_o in_o a_o impeachment_n they_o examine_v the_o matter_n and_o first_o find_v themselves_o the_o party_n to_o be_v guilty_a and_o then_o they_o follow_v it_o against_o he_o and_o prove_v he_o so_o before_o the_o lord_n do_v this_o at_o all_o give_v they_o any_o part_n in_o the_o judgement_n or_o must_v it_o not_o necessary_o be_v understand_v that_o the_o judicature_n be_v natural_o and_o constant_o lodge_v with_o the_o lord_n and_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o part_v then_o be_v only_o to_o bring_v the_o offender_n before_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v try_v this_o very_a record_n of_o the_o proceed_n in_o the_o lord_n house_n against_o gomeniz_n and_o weston_n show_v it_o so_o to_o be_v and_o prove_v the_o judicature_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n as_o strong_o as_o can_v be_v it_o run_v thus_o item_n par_fw-fr la_fw-fr ou_fw-fr supplié_fw-fr est_fw-fr par_fw-fr les_fw-fr commune_v que_fw-fr tous_fw-fr ceux_fw-fr qunt_fw-la rendus_fw-la &_o perdus_fw-fr chatels_n ou_fw-fr ville_n par_fw-fr dela_n par_fw-fr uray_fw-fr defaut_fw-fr des_fw-fr captain_n puissent_fw-la estre_fw-fr a_o response_n a_fw-fr cest_fw-fr parliament_n &_o selon_fw-fr leur_fw-fr desert_n fortement_fw-fr punis_fw-la par_fw-fr agard_fw-fr des_fw-fr signior_n &_o baronage_n eschievant_fw-fr le_fw-fr malueis_fw-la ensample_n qils_fw-fr ont_fw-fr donnez_fw-fr as_o autres_fw-fr qui_fw-fr sont_fw-fr garden_n de_fw-fr ville_n &_o chatel_n commandé_v est_fw-la a_o sire_n alein_fw-fr de_fw-fr buxhall_n constable_n del_fw-it tour_n de_fw-fr londres_n qe_fw-fr y_fw-fr face_n venir_fw-fr devant_fw-fr les_fw-fr signior_n en_fw-fr parliament_n a_o westminster_n le_fw-fr vendredy_n 27_o jour_fw-fr de_fw-fr novembre_n lán_n susdit_n jehan_n sire_n de_fw-fr gomeniz_n &_o william_n de_fw-fr weston_n etc._n etc._n item_n whereas_o it_o be_v pray_v by_o the_o commons_o that_o all_o those_o who_o have_v deliver_v up_o and_o lose_v castle_n and_o town_n on_o the_o other_o side_n of_o the_o sea_n by_o their_o own_o default_n be_v captain_n of_o they_o may_v be_v put_v to_o their_o answer_n at_o this_o parliament_n and_o according_a to_o their_o desert_n be_v severe_o punish_v by_o the_o award_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o baronage_n for_o the_o eschew_v of_o the_o evil_a example_n which_o they_o have_v give_v to_o other_o guardian_n of_o town_n and_o castle_n command_n be_v give_v to_o sir_n allen_n de_fw-fr buxhall_n constable_n of_o the_o tower_n of_o london_n to_o bring_v before_o the_o lord_n in_o parliament_n at_o westminster_n upon_o friday_n the_o 27_o of_o november_n of_o the_o aforesaid_a year_n john_n lord_n of_o gomeniz_n and_o william_n of_o weston_n etc._n etc._n here_o the_o commons_o desire_v that_o all_o such_o may_v be_v severe_o punish_v by_o the_o award_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o baronage_n so_o it_o be_v their_o award_n and_o their_o judgement_n must_v punish_v and_o this_o by_o the_o commons_o confession_n and_o you_o may_v observe_v further_o that_o the_o commons_o do_v not_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o any_o particular_a person_n but_o the_o lord_n they_o command_v sir_n allein_n de_fw-fr buxhall_n to_o bring_v gomeniz_n and_o weston_n before_o they_o such_o a_o day_n but_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o trace_v the_o author_n of_o the_o pamphlet_n where_o he_o be_v lead_v out_o of_o the_o way_n and_o that_o be_v by_o a_o other_o pamphlet_n of_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o baronage_n which_o go_v under_o mr._n selden'_v name_n but_o have_v as_o many_o mistake_v in_o it_o as_o leaf_n and_o there_o indeed_o it_o be_v say_v p._n 15._o that_o at_o the_o supplication_n of_o the_o commons_o that_o all_o those_o who_o have_v render_v castle_n be_v put_v to_o their_o answer_n and_o that_o allen_n buxhall_n constable_n of_o the_o tower_n do_v bring_v before_o the_o lord_n such_o a_o day_n gomeniz_n and_o weston_n to_o answer_v the_o article_n which_o there_o shall_v be_v prefer_v for_o the_o say_a cause_n they_o be_v so_o bring_v etc._n etc._n but_o the_o record_n itself_o you_o see_v be_v otherwise_o which_o that_o pamphleter_n it_o seem_v never_o read_v and_o for_o what_o he_o further_o will_v infer_v to_o make_v that_o and_o all_o other_o judgement_n at_o the_o prosecution_n of_o the_o commons_o admit_v they_o have_v be_v so_o which_o these_o be_v not_o act_n of_o parliament_n be_v a_o fancy_n so_o ridiculous_a as_o it_o be_v not_o worth_a the_o answer_n which_o make_v no_o difference_n betwixt_o a_o act_n of_o attainder_n that_o pass_v both_o house_n and_o afterward_o have_v the_o king_n assent_n as_o all_o other_o law_n have_v which_o be_v a_o effect_n of_o the_o legislative_a power_n in_o which_o either_o house_n have_v a_o equal_a vote_n and_o a_o proceed_n before_o the_o lord_n against_o a_o criminous_a person_n in_o a_o judicial_a way_n wherein_o the_o commons_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v as_o to_o the_o judge_n of_o he_o but_o one_o thing_n more_o in_o that_o pamphlet_n i_o can_v let_v pass_n which_o be_v in_o p._n 12._o the_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n for_o the_o king_n give_v judgement_n in_o parliament_n with_o the_o lord_n assent_v i_o do_v confess_v judgement_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v proper_o and_o punctual_o enter_v as_o give_v par_fw-fr nostre_fw-fr seigneur_fw-fr le_fw-fr roy_fw-fr que_fw-fr est_fw-fr souverain_n juge_n en_fw-fr tous_fw-fr case_n &_o par_fw-fr les_fw-fr signior_n spirituel_n &_o temporel_n ovel_a assent_n des_fw-fr commune_v de_fw-fr la_fw-fr terre_fw-fr ou_fw-fr a_fw-fr leur_fw-fr petition_n &_o nenny_n par_fw-fr les_fw-fr signior_n temporel_n seulement_fw-fr that_o be_v as_o give_v by_o our_o lord_n the_o king_n who_o be_v sovereign_a judge_n in_o all_o cause_n and_o by_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a with_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o commons_o of_o the_o land_n or_o upon_o their_o petition_n and_o not_o by_o the_o lord_n temporal_a alone_o and_o for_o this_o he_o quote_v in_o the_o margin_n rot._n part._n apud_fw-la leicester_n ii_o 16._o which_o he_o deliver_v so_o magisterial_o as_o any_o man_n will_v swear_v he_o have_v good_a authority_n for_o what_o he_o say_v and_o that_o his_o old_a french_a be_v some_o old_a oracle_n of_o parliament_n and_o i_o must_v confess_v upon_o the_o first_o read_v of_o this_o i_o be_v at_o a_o stand_n find_v here_o such_o a_o positive_a precept_n contrary_a to_o what_o i_o have_v still_o believe_v both_o in_o the_o affirmative_a it_o must_v be_v by_o the_o king_n and_o lord_n with_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o commons_o and_o negative_a not_o by_o the_o lord_n alone_o but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o examine_v this_o assertion_n by_o the_o record_n i_o find_v there_o be_v a_o foul_a mistake_n whether_o purposely_o or_o ignorant_o i_o judge_v not_o for_o what_o be_v deliver_v by_o counsel_n to_o bolster_v up_o his_o client_n pretentious_a be_v there_o produce_v as_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o court_n and_o a_o error_n assign_v to_o reverse_v a_o former_a judgement_n which_o be_v but_o the_o allegation_n of_o a_o lawyer_n that_o draw_v up_o his_o client_n plea_n be_v make_v a_o argument_n to_o control_v and_o condemn_v a_o constant_a usage_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n it_o be_v in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o earl_n of_o salisbury_n who_o bring_v a_o writ_n of_o error_n in_o the_o parliament_n 2._o h._n 5._o to_o reverse_v the_o judgement_n give_v 2._o h._n 4._o n._n 30._o by_o the_o lord_n temporal_a alone_o with_o the_o king_n assent_n by_o which_o judgement_n the_o earl_n of_o kent_n huntingdon_n and_o salisbury_n and_o some_o other_o who_o have_v be_v some_o slay_v some_o take_v in_o actual_a rebellion_n by_o other_o the_o king_n subject_n and_o by_o they_o put_v to_o death_n without_o form_n of_o law_n be_v declare_v attaint_v of_o treason_n and_o their_o estate_n forfeit_v for_o the_o reversal_a whereof_o thomas_n the_o son_n earl_n of_o salisbury_n among_o the_o error_n assign_v this_o for_o one_o as_o a_o principal_a one_o that_o it_o be_v give_v by_o the_o lord_n temporal_a alone_o with_o the_o king_n whereas_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v by_o the_o king_n lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a with_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o commons_o or_o at_o their_o petition_n and_o what_o follow_v upon_o this_o indeed_o if_o the_o judgement_n have_v be_v reverse_v though_o perhaps_o upon_o some_o other_o error_n for_o several_a other_o be_v assign_v there_o may_v have_v be_v some_o colour_n for_o the_o gentleman_n assertion_n and_o the_o inference_n he_o will_v make_v upon_o it_o but_o so_o far_o from_o it_o that_o the_o judgement_n