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A83747 The narrative & reasons of the Honorable House of Commons, concerning the tryal of the Lords in the Tower Delivered at a conference with the Lords, May, 26th. 1679.; Proceedings. 1679-05-26 England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Lords. 1679 (1679) Wing E2625; ESTC R202396 5,678 16

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Power of Impeachments or rendring them ineffectual the Commons thought fit to propose to your Lordships that a Committee of both Houses might be appointed for this purpose at which Committee when agreed to by your Lordships it was first proposed that the time of the Tryal of the Lords in the Tower should be put off till the other matters were Adjusted and it was then agreed That the proposition as to the time of Tryal should be the last thing Considered and the Effect of this agreement stands reported upon your Lordships Books after which the Commons Communicated to your Lordships by your Committee a Vote of theirs viz. That the Committee of Commons should Insist upon the former Vote of their House that the Lords Spiritual ought not to have any Vote in any proceedings against the Lords in the Tower and that when that matter should be setled and the method of proceedings Adjusted the Commons would then be ready to proceed upon the Tryal of the Pardon of the Earl of Danby against whom they had before demanded Judgment and afterwards to the Tryal of the other five Lords in the Tower which Vote Extended as well to the Earl of Danby as the other five Lords but the Commons have as yet received nothing from your Lordships towards an Answer to that Vote save that your Lordships have acquainted them that the Bishops have Asked leave of the House of Peers that they might withdraw themselves from the Tryal of the said five Lords with Liberty of entring their usual protestation And though the Commons Committee have almost dayly declared to your Lordships Committee that that was a necessary point of Right to be settled before the Trials and offered to Debate the same your Committee always Answered that they had not any Power from your Lordships either to Confer upon or to Give any Answer concerning that Matter And yet Your Lordships without having given the Commons any satisfactory Answer to the said Vote or permitting any Conference or Debate there-upon and contrary to the said Agreement did on Thursday the Twenty-Fourth of May send a Message to the Commons declaring That the Lords Spiritual as well as Temporal had ordered That the Twenty-Seventh of this Instant May be appointed for the Tryal of the five Lords So that the Commons cannot but apprehend your Lordships have not only departed from what was agreed on and in Effect laid aside that Committee Constituted for Preserving a good Understanding betwixt the two Houses and better Dispatch of the weighty Affairs now Depending in Parliament but must also needs conclude from the said Message and from the Vote of your Lordships of the 14th of May That the Lords Spiritual have a Right to stay and sit in Court till the Court proceeds to Guilty or not Guilty and from the Bishops asking leave as appears by the Lords Books two days after the said Vote that they might withdraw themselves from the Tryal of the five Lords with Liberty of entering their usual Protestations and from their persisting still to go on give their Votes in proceeding upon the Impeachments that their desire of leave to with-draw at the said Tryal is only an evasive Answer to the forementioned Vote of the Commons and chiefly intended as an Argument for a right of Judicature upon Proceedings upon Impeachments and as a Reserve to Judge upon the Earl of Danby's Plea of Pardon and upon these and other like Impeachments although no such Power was ever Claimed by their Predecessors but is utterly denied by the Commons And the Commons are the rather Induced to believe it so intended because the very asking to withdraw seemes to imply aright to be there and that they cannot be absent without it because by this way they would have it in their Power whether or no for the Future either in the Earl of Danby's Case or any other they will ever ask Leave to be Absent and the Temporal Lords have like Power of Denying Leave if that shall be Admitted once necessary The Commons are therefore Obliged not to proceed to the Tryal of the five Lords the twenty seventh of this instant May but to adhere to their afore-said Vote And for their so doing besides what hath been now and formerly by them said to your Lordships do offer you these Reasons following THE REASONS 1. BEcause your Lordships have Received the Earl of Danby's Plea of Pardon with a very long and unusual Protestation wherein he hath Aspers'd his Majesty with false Suggestion as if his Majesty had Commanded or Countenanced the Crimes he stands Charged with And particularly Suppressing and Discouraging the Discovery of the Plot and endeavouring to Introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical way of Government which remains as a Scandal upon Record against his Majesty tending to render his Person and Government odious to his People Against which it ought to be the First and Principal Care of Both Houses to Vindicate his Majesty by doing Justice against the said Earl 2. The setting up a Pardon to be a Bar of an Impeachment defeats the whole Use and Effects of Impeachments And should this Point be admitted or stand doubted it would totally discourage the Exhibiting any for the Future whereby the Chief Institution for the Preservation of the Government and consequently the Government it self would be destroyed And therefore the Case of the said Earl which in Consequence concerns all Impeachments whatever ought to be determined before that of the five Lords which is but their particular Case and without resorting to many Authorities of greater Antiquity The Commons desire your your Lordships to take Notice with the same Regard they do of the Declaration which that Excellent Prince King Charles the First of Blessed Memory made in this behalf in his Answer to the Nineteenth Proposition of Both Houses of Parliament Wherein stating the several Parts of this Regulated Monarchy he sayes The King the House of Lords and the House of Commons have each particular Priviledges And among those which belong to the King he reckons Power of Pardons After the Enumerating of which and other his Prerogatives his said Majesty adds thus Again That the Prince may not make use of this high and perpetual Power to the Hurt of those for whose Good he hath it and make use of the Name of Publick Necessity for the Gain of his private Favourites and Followers to the Detriment of his People The House of Commons an Excellent Conserver of Liberty is solely intrusted with the First Propositions concerning the Leavyes of Moneys and the Impeaching of those who for their own Ends though Countenanced by any Surreptitiously-gotten Command of the King have Violated that Law which he is bound when he knows it to Protect And to the Protection of which they were bound to advise him at least not to serve him in the contrary And the Lords being trusted with a Judicatory Power are an excellent Skreen and Banke between the Prince and People to assist each against any Encroachments of the other and by just Judgment to Preserve that Law which ought to be the Rule of every One of the Three c. Therefore the Power legally placed in Both Houses is more than Sufficient to prevent and restrain the Power of Tyranny c. 3. Until the Commons of England have right down them against this Plea of Pardon they may Justly apprehend that the whole Justice of the Kingdome in the Case of the Lords may be Obstructed and defeated by pardons of like Nature 4. An Impeachment is Virtually the voice of every particular Subject of this Kingdome Crying out against an Oppression by which every member of that body is equally wounded and it will prove a matter of ill Consequence that the Universality of the People should have Occasion Ministred and Continued to them to be Apprehensive of utmost danger from the Crown from whence they of right expect protection 5. The Commons Exhibited Articles of Impeachments against the said Earl before any against the five other Lords and demanded Judgement upon those Articles whereupon your Lordships having appointed the Tryal of the said Earl to be before that of the other five Lords now your Lordships having since inverted that Order gives a great Cause of doubt to the House of Commons and raises a Jealousie in the hearts of all the Commons of England that if they should proceed to the Tryal of the five Lords in the first place not only Justice will be Obstructed in the Case of those Lords but that they shall never have right done them in the matter of this Plea of Pardon which is of so fatal Consequence to the whole Kingdome and a New devise to frustrate publick Justice in Parliament Which Reasons and Matters being duely weighed by your Lordships the Commons doubt not but your Lordships will receive Sa●●●●●ction concerning their propositions and proceedings and will agree that the Commons ought not nor can without deserting their Trust depart from their former Vote Communicated to your Lordships That the Lords Spiritual ought not to have any Vote in any proceedings against the Lords in the Tower and when that matter shall be setled and the Methods of proceedings Adjusted the Commons shall then be Ready to proceed upon the Tryal of the Pardon of the Earl of Danby against whom they have already demanded Judgment and afterwards to the Tryal of the other Five Lords in the Tower This is a true Copy carefully examined and published to prevent abuses by false ones FINIS