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A42468
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The churche[s] publick order argued and opened by a second confere[nce] betweene Silvanus and Himeneu[s] ... wherein the ordinances of the Church of Engla[nd for] Gods publick worship are proved to beagreeable to Gods sacred word / by L.G. [i.e. I.G.], a continuall friend and lover ofthe tr[uth].
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J. G.
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1643
(1643)
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Wing G33; ESTC R42041
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23,389
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47
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that beforâ— our first conference Acts 14.23 And they ordained them Eâ— in every Church that is Preachers as you there observed 〈◊〉 Yet not one nor all those places doe shew the forme they 〈◊〉 though they prove the thing they practised Silv. Neither doe the Scriptures lay downe the fâ—â— of Marriage although it bee honoured beyond conâ— by God Himselfe in Paradice Gen. 2.22 As also bâ— Lords first miracle Iohn 2.1 11. And the author 〈◊〉 â—ebrewes layes it down as an Ordinance for ever Marriage 〈◊〉 honourable in all Hebr. 13.4 and yet in all the Scripâ—â—â—es old or new we doe not finde a forme for the manner â—or persons appoined to celebrate the matter but some â—â—nes wee finde the Parents did performe it in the Patriâ—â—hs times and in the Iudges times the Magistrates and 〈◊〉 other places it is said they tooke unto them Wives as 〈◊〉 they married themselves for so it is said Gene. 6.3 â—ow because there is not a forme of words in Scripture â—he holy ordinance of Marriage waste and voyd No â—inke none will be so voyd of Religion to say so but 〈◊〉 it not rather prove that it is left by the Authoritie Gods Word to the liberty of Christs Church to deâ—ine assigne and order in every Countrey as I shall 〈◊〉 anon an Act of Parliament of this Church in anoâ—â—â—â— case Hym. But hath the Church of England appointed a forme â—rdination as it hath done for Marriage â—â—l Yes such holy exhortations divine instructions â—ffectuall expressions as there cannot be better thought 〈…〉 Hym. I pray let me heare your knowledge of it 〈◊〉 As the ignorance of Scriptures is the cause of all 〈◊〉 and faction so also the ignorance of those wholeâ— Lawes and Ordinances which the Church hath proâ—â—â—â— in many particulars makes many have a worse opiâ—â—â—â— of the government of the Church then otherwise â—ould possibly have â—â—nnot but admire the solemne grave and honouâ—â—orme of Matrimony the Scriptures for instruâ—â—â—â—â—ppointed to be read the holy exhortations and adâ—â—ons the union pronounced in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost the concluding the ordnance with pertinent blessings I say I cannot chose but morâ— and more admire it because now a many of unadwâ—sed Ministers use unworthy and unwarrantable forme thereby couzening and cheating those they pretend tâ—â— Marry for except the words are used in the manner appointed by the Law the Law knowes them not marrieâ— but the Wife in the sence of the Law is accounted a whoâ— and the Children Bastards and the next of kinne will 〈◊〉 cover all personall estate and inheritance And the reâ—son is cleare because the Law knowes nor allowes of aâ—â— other forme for Marriage but that enacted Oh woeâ— to such unwise Ministers that have done this wrong aâ— injury to the Children unborne by seducing their ignorâ—â—â—â— Parents But to give you satisfaction in that you desire concerâ—ing Ordination of Ministers the Church hath appointâ—â— a very good rule and forme for it many pithy and apt prâ—â—ers unto God for His blessiing many Scriptures to bee râ—â—â— agreeing to the Ordinance As Saint Pauls counsell to â—mothy and the words and gesture the Apostles used whâ—â— they ordained Stephen and the rest Acts 6. as also 〈◊〉 words of our Lord Iohn 10. And diverse questions are made to them that are to 〈◊〉 ordained such as these are you assured or doe you beleâ—â— you are inwardly moved by the Holy Ghost to take upâ—â— you this office and ministration to serve God for the pâ—moting his glory and the edifying his people And he â—â—swers I beleeve so Also hee is askt doe you thinke you are truly called â—â—cording to the will of our Lord Iesus Christ doe 〈◊〉 unfainedly beleeve all the Canonicall Scriptures of 〈◊〉 â—ld and New Testament and will you apply your selfe to â—udy read and preach the same they promise they will 〈◊〉 And further also to lay aside the studies of the World 〈◊〉 the flesh to endeavour by good life and holy examâ—e to edifie Christs flock These and many more are the â—questions and exhortations then doth the Minister ordainâ—ng speake to the whole Congregation declaring to them â—e Ordination and there being no cause shewed against â—y the people hee proceeds in prayer and layes on his â—d upon him thereby giving him power to preach and â—ficiate in all other administrations Hym. This forme is very good and seems to mee warranâ—e but what rule hath the Church of England for ordination â—other Officers Sil. For such as have the place of ruling Elders comâ—only called Church-wardens and for such as receive and â—tribute to the necessity of the poore commonly called â—erseers the Minister and Congregation doe choose â—â—â—m together by most voyces according to Act of Parâ—â—â—ment Hym. But how are the people or Congregation ordered Silvanus All Parishes or Congregations are â—orporated and Ordayned by Act of Parliament â—e law gives power to the Minister and Churchâ—ficers to examine and see that obedience by yeelded to 〈◊〉 such things as concerne the time the place the manner 〈◊〉 matter of Gods worship in publick and accordingly â—acquit them if innocent or to indite or present them â—uiltie Anno 1. Edw. 6. Anno 1. Eliz. 2. Hym. I pray Sir resolve mee in my second question how a â—e may be commanded for it seemes to me the Apostles doctâ— teacheth otherwise Galath 4.10 11. Where he saith Yee â—ve dayes and moneths and times and yeares I am afraid of of you lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vaine Sil. The Apostle being rightly understood doth not write to the Galatians against a time or times to be appointed by authority for the publick worship of God but hee teacheth against the use of such Ceremonies that the cleare and open manifestation of the Truth and substance thereof made weake beggerly and uselesse and more principally hee directly preacheth against them as some thereby and in Obedience to sought life and justification against this the Apostle concludes peremptorily to the Romans Romans 3 28. in these words Wee conclude therefore that a man is justified by faith without the workes of the Law and hee accepts none to the Galatians but affirmeth that whosoever seeks justification by the Law he is fallen from Grace Gala. 5.4 And aggravates it by reduplications as most certaine and a thing never to be questioned the holy Ghost bearing witnesse with him and therefore speakes in a phrase never to be repealed for by the workes of the Law shall no flesh be justified Gal. 2 16. Hym. What rule have you then for the time and times of Gods publick worship Sil. The first day of the week and all other dayes and times are by Ordinance of the Church appointed this hath beene the judgement of former times amongst the Fathers as Hierome Austine and Tertullian Master Frith and Master Tindall amongst the Martyrs Master Calvin and many others in the book called the Harmony of confessions
Gods publick worship under the Gospellâ— Christians than Moses was under the Law to the Iewes 〈◊〉 making and ordering every particular according to 〈◊〉 perfect platforme and patterne which was shewed him 〈◊〉 the Mount Exodus 25.9 The Holy Ghost proves indâ— that Moses was a faithfull servant of God to heare 〈◊〉 doe the Commandement the worke of the Sanctuaâ— the Tabernacle and all the instruments and every veâ—â— from the least to the greatest even to every pinne thâ— of Exodus 27.19 And in this comparison Moses was faâ— full in all his house that is to make the materiall or eaâ—ly Tabernacle that was but a shadow a representation 〈◊〉 figure of that spirituall heavenly true and everlasâ— Tabernacle which Christ made or built purchased and sanctified with his owne bloud wherein Christ our Lord was much more faithfull as a Sonne to make to redeem â—o blesse and save his owne house And the Apostle to the Hebrewes shewes what this house of the Sonne is saying whose house we are If wee hold fast the confidence and â—ejoycing of the hope firme unto the end Hebrewes 3.6 Marke how the Apostle excells in expressing this spirituall House as wee made a descrption in our first conference â—pon Saint Peters words Page 10. where the Apostle â—alls the building living stones and the house it selfe a spiâ—tuall house 1 Pet. 2.5 Hym. It appeares there is not any such thing in the Text as â—e Separatists 〈…〉 â—abaptists doe affirme from it for the outâ—ard Order and 〈◊〉 of the Church Silv. This mak◠〈◊〉 â—he Separatists bold and audaâ—ous because that like the â—otten-hearted Pharisees they â—stifie themselveâ— for a 〈◊〉 side of their owne fancy â—d so in word onely never 〈…〉 nor heard of in the Scripâ—es and neglect the inwaâ—â—grace the truth and powâ— that whosoever hath not shall perish Luke 13. and â—ark 16 and 16. And notwithstanding our Saviours â—unsell is Make cleane the in-side and the out-side â—ll bee cleane also Matthew 23.26 And therefore I call 〈◊〉 Anabaptists ignorant and seduced because all this â—ile they have not learned the difference between that â—tizme the putting away the filth of the flesh which â—an may have and perish And that Baptisme the anâ—r of a good Conscience unto God that whosoever is â—tized with shall be saved the one being called the fiâ—e or outward figne the other the substance that saveth â—â—ward grace 1 Pet. 3.21 which substance indeed is the puâ—ifying the heart by Faith as before I shewed at our first Conference Page 8 9. And so speaketh the Apostle Paul clearly to the Galatians for you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Iesus for as many as have been Baptized into Christ have put on Christ Chapter 3.26 27. Hymen Doubtlesse these Scriptures must be thus understood I pray Sir informe me what ground the Church of England hath to prescribe a rule for the time and the rest that concernes the manner of Celebrating the Lords Supper Silv. But before I shew you that wee will take a briefâ— view how particular Moses was to give direction for every circumstance as well as for the substance in Circumcision and the Paschall Lambe And then consider what rules ouâ— Lord and his Apostles have given for Baptisme and thâ— Lords Supper which are significations and outward signeâ— of the same substance and grace under the Gospell as thâ— other were Ceremonies Types and Figures of the samâ— heavenly truth under the Law Therefore the Apostlâ— Paul to the Collossians uses both the termes of Circumcisiâ— on and Baptisme expressing one and the same life anâ— grace in Christ in whom saith hee yee are Circumcise 〈◊〉 with the Circumcision made without hands in putting 〈◊〉 the body of the sinnes of the flesh by the Circumcisioâ— of Christ buried with him in Baptisme wherein also yoâ— are risen with him through the faith of the operation 〈◊〉 God c. Colos 2.11 12. Now Moses speaking of â— braham gives rules for Circumcision for the parties whâ— shall be circumcised that is all the Males And the timâ— when at eight dayes old Genesis 17.12 And the plaâ— or part of the body the fore-skin Verse 11. And thâ— parties who shall doe it Abraham the Father Verse 2â— and Joshuah the Magistrate Jos 5.3 Also for the Passeover which was the same to the Jewes as the Lords Supper is to the Christians He appoynts the time the tenth day of the moneth and it shall be kept till the 14. day of the same moneth and then appoynts who shall kill it the whole Congregation and what time of the day the evening and who shall provide it that is every house and if the houshold bee too little then two Families shall joyne together he appoynts what it shall be for the kind of it that is a Lambe and not every Lambe but a Lambe without blemish and not Male or Female but Male onely and not of any age but a Lambe of a yeare old Also he prescribes the manner of dressing it not cut to pieces but whole his body with his Legges and with the purtenances thereof 〈◊〉 must not be boyled or baked but roasted with 〈◊〉 and yee shall eate the flesh in that night And hee prescribe the manner and gesture how they shall eate it saying thus shall you eate it with your Loynes girded your shooes on your feet and your staffe in your hand and you shall eate it in haste c. Exod. 12. ult For it is the Lords Passeover Hymen Moses hath beene very particular in Gods direction to Abraham concerning Circumcision and abundant in the Paschall Lambe for every Circumstance I pray shew me how the Scriptures in the new Testament give rules for the Celebration of Baptisme and the Lords Supper Silvan All the rule wee finde for Baptisme is in these words Goe yee therefore and teach all Nations Baptizing them in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost Matth. 28.19 Here is a plaine direction for the forme of words that are to be used but none for the Action of the Baptizer nor for the gesture of the baptized so wee read the Eunuch went downe into the water but which part of the bodie Philip washed is not mentioned neither is there direction for the Sex nor the age neither for eight dayes nor eight yeares nor of time place nor of what sort of Water salt or fresh So for the Lords Supper the words in the Institution are these Iesus tooke bread and blessed it and brake it and gave to his Disciples and said Take eate this is my body And hee took the Cup and gave thanks and gave it to them saying Drinke yee all of it for this is my blond of the new Testament which is shed for many for the remission of sinnes Yet in all these words here is no commission for his Disciples as there is for Baptisme Yet Saint Paul saith hee hath received Commission from the Lord concerning the Lords Supper 1