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A67875 Laudensium apostasia: or A dialogue in which is shewen, that some divines risen up in our church since the greatness of the late archbishop, are in sundry points of great moment, quite fallen off from the doctrine received in the Church of England. By Henry Hickman fellow of Magd. Colledg Oxon. Hickman, Henry, d. 1692. 1660 (1660) Wing H1911; ESTC R208512 84,970 112

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even the lake of Gehenna and so to the place of the neerest Denomination Epis. Asser. p. 379. Pacif. Your wit lying in the affinity of sound betwixt Geenna and Geneva is much like that of Campian Elizabeth and Jezabel But as for Lay-Elders I am not much solicitous about them thinking the Church may be well enough without them only I cannot think they are so destitute of all Antiquity and Scripture as you imagine that of 1 Tim. 5. 17. hath more for Lay-Elders than many places in Scripture urged by our Bishops have for Episcopacy Dr. Whitgist is said to have these words That he knoweth that the Primitive Church had in every Church certain Seniors to whom the Government of the Congregation was committed and in a Book against Mar-Prelate subscribed by the Archbishop of Canterbury the Bishop of Winchester Lincoln and London it is affirmed That the Government by Elders was used under the Law and practised under the Gospel by the Apostles though not fit for our times Though afterwards repenting this plain Confession they caused certain words importing the contrary to be printed in a sheet of Paper which paper was pasted in all the books of the first impression to cover and conceal the former assertion This I take on the Testimony of an Author who so printed in Queen Elizabeths time in a Tract called A Petition directed to her most Excellent Majesty but Mr. Nowel is plain in his Catechism in Latine p. 155. Edit. 1570. Grotius also acknowledgeth that Geneva did not first institute these Officers but only restored them nor may it be amiss for the learned Reader to consult about this point of Elders Bodins Method cap. 6. p. 245. Le ts on to the third Commandment Land Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain This our blessed Saviour repeating expresseth it thus It hath been said to them of old Thou shalt not forswear thy self to which Christ adds out of Numb. 30. 2. But thou shalt perform thy Oaths unto the Lord the meaning of the onewe are taught by the other We must not Invocate the Name of God in any promise in vain i. e. with a lie this is to take the Name of God i. e. to useit to take it into our mouths for vanity i. e. according to the perpetual stile of Scripture for a lie and this is to be understood only in promises for so Christ explains it out of the Law Thou shalt perform thy Oaths for lying in judgement which is also with an Oath or taking Gods Name for a witness is forbidden in the ninth Commandment Grand Exemp part 2. p. 114. Pacif. At this rate indeed write Maldonate and the Composer of the Racovian Catechism but without any reason for it is gratis dictum that our Lord doth repeat or give the sense of the third Commandment Exod. 20. 7. It is more probable that he intends those words Levit. 19. 12. As for the words in the third Commandment they have alway been so interpreted by Protestant Commentators as to forbid not only false swearing but vain swearing yea all irreverent use of the Name of God whether with an Oath or without an Oath So the Catechism in King Edward the 6ths raign so Bishop Hooper in his Exposition of the Decalogae so the Common Church Catechism so the Homily part 1. p. 45 46. No one that hath but a smattering skill will deny {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} sometime to signifie mendacium or falsum but it doth also signifie gratis in vanum as often if not more often The LXX Exod. 20. 7. render {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Aquila {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Yet I can more easily excuse this if you will but acknowledge that vain and unnecessary Oaths were unlawful to the Jews as well as us Laud By the Natural Law it was not unlawful to swear by an oath that implyed not Idolatry or the belief of a false God I say any grave or prudent oath when they spake a grave truth And it was lawful for the Jews in ordinary entercourse to swear by God so they did not swear to a lye to which also swearing to an impertinence might be reduced by a proportion of reason for they that swear by him shall be commended saith the Psalmist Psal. 63. 11. And swearing to the Lord of hosts is called speaking the Language of Canaan Isa. 19. 18. Great Exem part 2. p. 114. Pacif. This is Theology that a sober Heathen would startle at How do you prove that by the Natural Law it was not unlawful to swear an Oath when they spake a grave truth Doth any Scripture say so Do the more sage sort of profane Writers say so or do not all rather say who have not blinded Natural Conscience That it is not lawful to swear in the gravest matter if a man may be credited without an oath or if his oath be not like to be an end of strife Or what man who knows that God was alway tender of his Name and Glory canthink that it was lawful for the Jews to swear by God in ordinary entercourse They did ordinarily swear but it was not lawful so to do The son of Sirach reproves it Heathens condemn it it is indeed said They that swear by him shall glory Psal. 63. 11. but it is not said They that swear by him in ordinary entercourse shall glory if they should they would glory in their shame As for the place Isa. 19. 18. it proves not that swearing to the Lord in ordinary entercourse is speaking the Language of Canaan but it is a Prophecy only of the calling of Egypt that sundry of that Nation should make the same Profession and Confession of Faith that Gods people did and that they should by solemn Oath engage themselves to depend on the living Lord alone How doth this prove that it was lawful for the Jews to swear by God in ordinary entercourse or that their ordinary communication ought not to be yea yea and nay nay as well as ours Pass we on to the fourth Law of the Decalogue Laud There was nothing Moral in it but that we do Honour to God for the Creation and to that and all other purposes of Religion separate and hallow some portion of our time Great Exem part 2. p. 119. Pacif. Surely this is the way to rob us of one of the laws of the Decalogue for either the fourth Commandment is moral for a determinate time or for nothing at all some time being moral by the other Commandments and it would be strange that the Church of England should appoint this fourth Commandment to be publickly read and teach her members to pray Lord have mercy upon us and encline our hearts to keep this Law and yet think it had only that latent morality you speak of if the fourth Commandment be not in force in the words of it according to their literal and Grammatical
sense it is not in force at all for both Lawyers say and reason it self shews that a law is no longer in force then the words of it are in force at least those that contain the substance of it Laud The Primitive Church kept both the Sabbath and the Lords day till the time of the Laodicaean Council about 300 years after Christs Nativity and almost in every thing made them equal and therefore did not esteem the Lords day to be substituted in the place of the obliterated Sabbath but a Feast celebrated by great reason and perpetual consent without Precept or necessary Divine injunction Gr. Ex. part 2. p. 119. Pacif. There are in the few words by you uttered certain things that you must pardon me if I cannot presently close with 1. You say that the Primitive Church till the Laodicaean Council kept both the Sabbath and the Lords Day Quanta est haec propositio Do you mean that the whole Primitive Church did so that will be hard if not impossible to prove for the Books that are come to our hands have neither declared nor do they pretend to declare what all the Churches of Christ did nay it appears from Socrates that the Roman and Alexandrian Church kept not the Saturday at all as I think is acknowledged by Dr. Heylin himself Part. 2. But dato sed non concesso that there had been such an universal custom of observing both dayes how doth it hence follow that the Lords Day was not substituted in the place of the obliterated Sabbath Would you argue that Baptism came not in the place of Circumcision because to gain over the weak Jews they used Circumcision for some season They might use the Saturday as a meeting day that by complying with the Jews and Proselytes they might obtain familiar access and gain opportunity to instruct them in the Christian Faith by reason that the people had been accustomed to meet together on that day Laud Ignatius would have both dayes observed the Sabbath first though not as would the Ebionites in a Jewish sort and after that the Lords Day which he so much magnifieth the better to abate that high esteem which some had cast on the Sabbath Hist. of Sab. Part. 2. p. 41. Pacif. I know the place you intend though you refer us not to any Epistle but you are not ignorant that Ignatius his Epistles are much corrupted and have been so accounted by all great Scholars who have impartially spent their judgement upon them this place particularly which you quote out of this Epistle to the Magnesi is depraved and if you will take the pains to consult either the old Latine Manuscript of Ignatius published by the Right Reverend Archbishop Usher or the Greek Edition published by Isaac Vossius which undoubtedly are the truest that ever were printed you will find no such thing can be drawn out of Ignatius as is by you inferred yea rather it will appear that Ignatius is against the keeping of the Saturday Sabbath at all Laud 'T is true that in some tract of time the Church in honour of Christs Resurrection did set a part that day on which he arose to holy exercises But this upon their own authority and without warrant from above that we can hear of more then the General warrant which God gave his Church that all things in it be done decently and in comely order Hist. Sab. Part. 2. p. 7. Pacif. Our Homily saith it plainly appears that Gods Will and Commandment is to have a solemn time and standing day in the week wherein the people should come together and have in rememberance his wonderful benefits Part. 2. p. 125. And that the Apostolical Church would not change the day from the seventh to the first without authority and Commission from Christ so to do is certain enough 'T is to me sufficient that the Lords Day is of Divine Institution whether immediate by Christ or mediate by his Apostles and that it is of Divine Institution one of these wayes is I take it easily proved by Antiquity and Reason The Homilie entitled De Semente hath these plain words {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} This testimony is made use of by Archbishop Usher for the purpose to which I bring it Laud Neither the Author whom he cites nor the authority by him cited will evince the point 1. The Author will not do it the Homily being supposed by the Learned not to have been writ by Athanasius but put into his Works by some that had a mind to entitle him to it 2. The authority or words cited will not do it though at first fight they seem to come home to make proof of it for the words {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} are to be understood not as if the Translation of the day were made by his commandment but on his occasion the Resurrection of our Lord upon that day being the principal motive which did induce his Church to make choice thereof for a day of Worship Res. Pet. Pacif. Do you make this gloss upon the words in jest or earnest Do you really think that the meaning of of {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is this that the Church did translate the day with relation to Christs Resurrection Laud Yes for otherwise the false Athanasius whosoever he was must cress and contradict the true who having told us that it was commanded at the first that the Sabbath should be observed {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in memory of the accomplishmrnt of the Worlds Creation ascribes the Institution of the Lords Day to the voluntary usage of the Church of God without any Commandment from our Saviour {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} c. We celebrate saith he the Lords Day as a memorial of the beginning of the new Creation which is plain enough Resp. Pet. p. 7. Pacif. The words you refer to I acknowledge to be found in Athanasius de Circum Sabbatho and confess them to be plain enough but neither plain enough nor plain at all for the evincing of that for which you produce them for how doth it follow that if Athanasius say {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that he must mean we celebrate the Lords Day by the voluntary usage of the Church without any Commandment from our Saviour may we not {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} though there be a Divine Institution of the day But for satisfaction in these points Irefer any indifferent person to what is said by Mr. P. Caw in Sabbat Rediv. fourth Part. Laud What shall we think of Knox and whittingham and their fellows who in their Letter to Calvin depart from the Constitution Ordinance and Practice of the Apostles and Apostolick men and call not this day the Lords Day or Sunday but with the Piety of Jeroboam make such a day of it as they have devised in own their hearts to serve their own turn and Anabaptizing
and they answer the objections of the despairing as well as of the presumptuous concluding at last thus God which hath promised his mercy to them that be truly repentant although it be at the later end hath not promised to the presumptuous sinner either that he shall have long life or that he shall have true repentance at the last exd And I pray you why may not God work the habit of saving grace and give the Holy Ghost to those who are ready to give up the ghost are not such habits infused Laud We may as well say there can be a habit born with us as infused in to us for as a natural habit supposeth a frequency of actions by him who hath natural abilities so doth an infused habit if there were any such it is a result and consequent of a frequent doing the works so that to say that God in an instant infuseth into us an habit of chastity is to say that he hath in an instant infused into us to have done the acts of that grace frequently Un. Necess p. 272. Pacif. I see not any absurdity in saying a habit may be born with us Original righteousness is thought to have the nature of an habit yet had not the Protoplast lapsed it had been born with us and been natural to us and me thinks it is no strange thing that there should be habits in the soul which are not the result and consequence of frequent actions for what think you of the gratiae gratis datae are not they habits and yet were they not instantaneously produced in the souls of Prophets and Apostles it would be strange that there should be from a natural man any supernatural action were not the natural faculty first elevated by some supernatural habit infused into us we being only the recipients Laud This device of infused habits is a fancy without ground and without sense without authority or any just grounds of confidence and it hath in it very bad effects for it destroys all necessity of our care and labour in the wayes of godliness all cautions of an holy life it is apt to minister pretences and excuses for a perpetually wicked life till the last of our dayes making men to trust to a late repentance it puts men upon vain confidences and makes them relie for salvation upon dreams and empty notions it destroys all the duty of man and cuts off all entercourse of reward and obedience Unum Necess 273. Pacif. This is high language especially seeing it must needs concern almost the whole Protestant Church whose suffrage certainly will gain an opinion some credit and esteem among sober modest persons verily why there should be more non-sense in infused habits then in acquired habits I know not and cannot reject a distinction generally received without some very pregnant reason as for what you pretend that the doctrine of infused habits doth produce sad effects destroying all necessity of care and labour c. it moves me not you hold I suppose that the soul is not ex traduce but by immediate creation Creando infunditur infundendo creatur yet none ever thought on this account that marriage and due benevolence among married people is needless the new creature is the workmanship of God but yet there are certain antecedaneous preparatory works wrought by attendance on Ordinances whereby the soul is qualified and made a fit and meet receptacle for supernatural grace if we resist these we make a bloudy adventure upon the patience forbearance and long sufferance of God But this conceit of destroying labour and endeavour of making Exhortations needless and useless is an old stale objection of the Pelagians and Massilians the grand adversaries of divine grace confuted by Austin Prosper Fulgentius Laud A special confession unto a Priest of all our sins committed after Baptism so far forth as we remember is necessary unto salvation in the judgement of Fathers Schoolmen and almost all Andquitie not only Necessitate praecepti but also necessitate medii so that according to the ordinary or revealed means appointed by Christ there can be no salvation without the foresaid Confession Mr. Adams referente Pryn. in Canterbury's Doom p. 192. Pacif. I shall now know what to think of those who cry all Fathers Schoolmen Antiquity that they do but boast of things that they never examined for he that is any way conversant in the writings of the Fathers cannot but know that no such doctrine is generally delivered by them nor do all the Schoolmen deliver any such Doctrine sure I am the Church of England hath imposed no such burden on her sons and members nay she hath most clearly determined against the necessity of this Confession in her Homilies Part. 2. Of the Sermon of Repentance p. 266 267. And in her Lyturgy she only adviseth it where a mans conscience is so perplexed that he cannot extricate himself without calling in the assistance of another Laud Men are taught that they must pass through the terrors of the Law before they can receive the mercies of the Gospel The Law was a Schoolmaster to bring the Synagogue to Christ it was so to them who were under the Law but cannot be so to us who are not under the Law but under Grace for if they mean the Law of Works or that imposition which was the first entercourse with man they lose their title to the mercies of the Gospel if they mean the Law of Moses then they do not stand fast in the liberty by which Christ hath made them free but whatsoever the meaning be neither of them can concern Christians Unum Neces p. 42. Pacif. Do you then think that the Law is of no use to us Christians Laud The use that we Christians are to make of the Law is only to magnifie the mercies of God in Jesus Christ who hath freed us from so severe a Covenant who does not judge us by the measures of an Angel but by the span of a mans hand But we are not to subject our selves so much as by fiction of Law or fancy to the curse and threatnings of the Covenant of Works or of Moses his Law though it was of more instances and less severity by reason of the allowance of Sacrifices for Expiation Un. Neces p. 41. Pacif. I judge with all Divines that we are to make another use of the Law then that you mention we are to use it as a regula officii to shew us our duty how much we owe to God and how much God may justly require of us and so it will be a Schoolmaster to bring us to Christ for whilest we see how much short we fall of our duty we shall see a necessity of closing with Christ upon the terms and conditions of the Gospel we are as much under the Law of Moses the moral part of it as ever were the Jews and the Jews were as much under grace as we aeque I say though not aequaliter Laud Every
Christian man sinning is to consider the horrible threatnings of the Gospel the severe intermination of eternal pains the goodnese of God leading to repentance the severity of his justice in exacting great punishments of criminals the reasonableness of this justice punishing such persons intolerably who would not use so great a grace in so pleasing a service for the purchase of so glorious a reward The terrors of the Law did end in temporal death they could affright no further but in the Gospel Heaven and Hell were opened and laid before all mankind and therefore by these measures a sinner is to enter into the sorrows of contrition and the care of his amendment And it is so vain a thing to think every sinner must in his Repentance pass under the terrors of the Law that this is a very destruction of that reason for which they are fallen upon the opinion the Law is not enough to affright sinners and the terrors of the Gospel are far more to persevering impenitent sinners then the terrors of the Law were to the breakers of it the cause of the mistake is this The Law was more terrible then the Gospel is because it allowed no mercy to the sinner in great instances but the Gospel does But then if we compare the state of these men who fell under the evils of the Law with those who fall under the evils threatned in the Gospel we shall find these to be in a worse condition then those by far as much as Hell is worse then beeing stoned to death or thrust through with a sword Un. Neces p. 41. Pacif. All men will grant that Heaven and Hell are more clearly opened under the New than under the Old Testament But this I cannot digest That the terrors of the Law did end in Temporal death and could affright no further or that the Law is not enough to affright sinners For what mean you by the Law the Covenant of Works or the Law administred by Moses either of them sure is enough to affright sinners or else God had been wanting not threatning terror sufficient to affright people from wickedness Christ freeth us from the wrath to come and yet he freeth us but from that wrath which as transgressors of the Law we have incurred What think you of those sinners who never heard of the Gospel shall they die only a Temporal death If so Hell will be more empty then is generally believed If they dye an Eternal death then the Law threatneth more then Temporal death for they can suffer only as transgressors and offenders of the Law But I pray you what do you think of Satisfaction is not that made only by Christ Laud He that is ready to be cast away upon the Sea may well be taught to pray Be pleased to unite my death to the death of thy Son and to accept it so united as a punishment for all my sins that thou mayest forget all thine anger and blot my sins out of thy book Rules and exercis of Holy Liv. p. 393 394. Pacif. This is sure Popery if any thing in the world be Popery For it plainly tendeth to bring those Papal satisfactions which are so abundantly proved by our Protestant Controversie writers to be derogatory to the worth and value of that perfect Satisfaction made by Christ on the Cross for all the sins of the whole world both Original and Actual Vid. Art 31. Why should I pray to God to unite my death to the death of Christ Is not Christs death sufficient to expiate the guilt of all my sins How can I think that my being cast away at Sea should be accepted by God as a punishment for all my sins What am I to think of Justification not unmeetly called by Luther Articulus stantis aut cadentis Ecclesiae Laud A sinner is then justified when he is made Just i. e. Translated from state of Nature to state of Grace Ans. to Gag p. 142. Justification consisteth in forgiveness of sins primarily and grace infused secondarily both the acts of Gods Spirit in man Id. p. 143. To Justifie hath a threefold extent 1. To make just and righteous 2. To make more just and righteous 3. To declare and pronounce just Justification properly is in the first acception a sinner is then justified when he is made just i. e. transformed in mind renewed in soul regenerate by grace Id. p. 140. 142 141. compared Pacif. That we are not justified before we are changed is certain enough and proved by many Scriptures and reasons but that Justification doth primarily in Scripture signifie the making of us just that 's the error of the Church of Rome and directly contrary to the Church of England which placeth it in forgiveness of sins alone Artic. 11. and makes it to signifie the declaring or pronouncing of us just for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us And I pray you tell me what is it according to your Principles that procureth our acceptation with God Laud What else but doing well If thou do well shalt thou not be accepted Psa. 15. Isa. 1. 16 20. Ezek. 18. 1. 9. Dan 4. 27. Mic. 6. 6 7 8. If this be well considered it will cause us to set a price and value upon well doing and upon good works which of late have been undervalued and decryed under the names of Popery and Arminianism c. Are they not the end of our Creation Ephes. 2. 10. Are they not the end of our Redemption Tit. 2. 14. Dr. Gell. p. 33. Pacif. What else procures acceptance with God himself but well-doing The death of Christ doth it for we are accepted in the Well-beloved He being the Well-beloved in whom God is well-pleased Our well-doing doth not procure our acceptance with God but it is only conditio sinè quâ non it is but causa dispositiva had we done never so well without the suffering of Christ there had been no acceptation with God since the Fall I know none who call good works Popery or Arminianism but they who press good works so as to make them the sole procurers of our Justification are deservedly concluded to be Popish We are the workmanship of God created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath ordained that we should walk in them And yet his meaning is not by these words to induce us to have any affiance or to put any confidence in our works as by the merit and deserving of them to purchase to our selves and others the remission of our sins and so consequently everlasting life for that were meer Blasphemy against Gods mercy and great derogation to the blood-shedding of our Saviour Jesus Christ Homil. Part. 2. p. 81. We have not much agreed in matters of Doctrine hitherto I hope we may better agree about the State of Souls after death and the condition of the wicked after the general Judgment Laud Let it be so That the souls of the Fathers were not in Heaven before our