the preceptive or penal part though it justifies me before the Law R. B. What if the Creed or Lords Prayer were too rigorously imposed J. O. If the thing be my duty in obedience to a just and Supream Law I am not to neglect it because an Inferiour Governour too rigorously imposeth it 1. Such a rigorous imposition hurts me not in that which I take to be duty to do whether that Imposition be or no. 2. Christ never annexeth too severe Penalties to any of his Laws 3. If man undertake to annex too rigorous Punishments or unsuitable ones it hinders not me in my Duty to Christ As if a Magistrate make Whipping or Hanging the Penalty of not receiving the Sacrament in such a time If I upon Examination of my self and the Rule apprehend it my duty in Obedience to Christ I will do it but not in respect to Mans Laws But if the Subordinate Law-maker alter the Nature and Circumstances of the Supream the Law is another thing and my Obedience justifies the power of the Law-maker and the goodness of the Law in the Mandatory part Again good things by a lawful Authority may be too rigorously imposed and the Law may be unjust in the Penalty though the Mandatory part be good which injustice is the sin of the Law-givers loss and wrong of the Transgressor because he suffers beyond the Merit of his Transgression but this hinders not me from my Duty neither doth this rigorous Imposition hurt me so long as I stand in obligation and practice of my duty by another Righteous Law which requires the same thing If Christ commands me to say the Lords Prayer and annexeth no corporal punishment I will do it If Mans Law saith I shall be hang'd if I do not do it I do the Action by vertue of Christ's Law But let such Law makers look to it that annex Corporal Penalties to Laws of his Institution the Cries of them upon which they are Executed will be loud in Christs Ear. Manuscript This Corjunction by C mmunion by the Worship of the Liturgy is a Symbol Pledge and Token of â—n Ecclesâ—astical Incorporation with the Church of England in its present Constitution it is so in the Law of the Land it is so in the Canons of the Church it is so in the common understanding of all men and by these Rules must our Vnderstanding and Practice be judged and not be any Reserves of our own which neither God nor good men will allow of Wherefâ—re R. B. To the third Premise I answer The Church of England is an Ambiguous word 1. As it signifies a part of the Universal Church agreeing in Faith one God and all Essentials J. O. So any Church may be as well as it any particular Congregation this is no distinguishing Character but is ambiguous too R. B. 2. As it is a Christian Kingdom under one King J. O. A Church in a sence is a Christian Kingdom i. e. a Royal Nation under Christ their King But there 's no such Gospel Church in your sence for there was neither Christian Kingdom nor King in the Apostles days R. B. As it is a Confedracy of many Churches to keep concord in lawful Circumstantials as well as Integrals J. O. This will not tell us yet what the Church of England is 1. A confederacy of Churches is by No-body call'd a Church in your sence of a Church the Scripture no where calls a confedracy of Churches a Church nor doth any that call the Church of England â— Church owning it so to be in its professed Constitution mean thereby a confederation of Churches 2. National Churches may be a confederation of Churches and such confederation in lawful circumstantials as well as integrals will make a Church I know not why we may not have a Catholick Visible Church Organized if this be a due acceptation of a Church R. B. If any Church go beyond these bounds and upon good pretences shall agree upon any Error or Evil it is a mistake to hold that all that incorporate with them in the three aforesaid lawful respects do therefore confederate with them in their Error This is your Fourth Error J. O. That 's â—our Error 1. In Arithmetick it s but the third by your own mark 2. In Logick for what â—ounds have you set These three things are but general Descriptions of a Church at most Here 's no definition in any or all of them of any particular Church and that is setting of â—ounds when I difference and describe a Species or Individual under its next Genus by its particular form or proper adjunct we spâ—ak of a particular Church so bounded The Church of England is so according to its present constitution by Establishing Laws in its actual form of Officers Members particular Worship and power as an Organized individual Church National Church is not the next Genus of the Church of England but remote National Church is the next Genus Now I say upon whatever pretences a particular Church calls and professeth it self a Church as the conditions of their Communion if you joyn with them upon those conditions pretended and professed that is a Token of your Ecclesiastical Incorporation in the said Church in its present constitution the Church and all others looks upon you as an Actual Member let the conditions be Error or no Error The Question is not so much now whether the terms be Error or not but whether your joyning upon the terms required is not your Ecclesiastical Incorporation with them And then if the terms be erroneous and sinful whether you do not joyn in the Error and professedly allow it by your practice R. B. I will give you a general instance and a particular one 1. You cann't name me one combined company of Churches from the Apostles dayes till now that had no Error J. O. You might as well have said any one Church for we speak of a particular Church not of combined Churches but suppose as you say If that Combination be an Error or an Error be the condition of the Combination then my coming upon that condition is an Error and an Incorporation into that combination so as to make me Confederate in that Error R. B. The Independents gathered a Synâ—d at the Savoy and there among their Doctrinals or Articles of Faith laid down two points Expresly contrary to Scripture 1. That it is not Faith but Christs Righteousness that we are justified by whereas it is both and the Scripture often saith the contrary J. O. It is a strange thing that any man should take upon him such Magisterial Dictatorship in matters of Religion to insinuate Error into Mens Minds and unjust accusations of others For 1. When the Scripture speaks of Justification by Faith doth any sound Divines or Christians understand it of the Act of believing but that the object of Faith that Justifies is the Righteousness of Faith our own Righteousness or Christs Righteousness but this dispute is not
close with some and not with all This is his First Error J. O. It seems its but an intimated Error then we say it s not left to our Judgment or Liberty viz. by them that challenge a Power over our Judgment and Liberty to close with or make use of any part of it i. e. in our External Communion the Law allows it not to read or hear it by bits or snaps or leave out what we please the Administrators will not leave it to us to do so neither can it be done without manifest offence to such Worshippers R. B. Though man gives us no such power God doth I am not bound to believe or own all that any Preacher shall say in the Church J. O. We speak not only of what power God gives us the sence is plain But God hath not left it in our power to communicate with any Society when they make that the condition of my Communion which I am convinced of to be sin to me or that I question whether it be lawful or no And though by joyning in any Worship you are not guilty of the Errors of the Administrators yet you own the Constitution of the Worship and the Rule by which it is performed supposing all Rules of Worship be Christ's Laws and Rules and therefore perfect and unerring To worship according to the Liturgy is to worship according to a Rule and this must be Gods Rule or Mans If Gods there 's no body will dissent from any thing in it as unjustifiable If mans the whole is not justifiable for let any sort of men show by what Authority they give a Rule for the Worship of God R. B. Though the Mass have many good Prayers the Corruption by twisted Idolatry and Heresie maketh Communion there unlawful J. O. That Twist is made in the whole System by the Law Establishing it where it is made their pretended Churches Worship therefore being unseparable you cann't make use of those alone which are directed to God by Jesus Christ alone but you must joyn in the Idolatry if you come to the Worship as Establish'd Again when you joyn with a System of Worship as by Law Established you joyn wlth the whole as if you touch a mans finger you touch the man we have Communion with an Integrum pâ—r partes and with a Genus by a Species and with both by Individuals Nay as every part of the Scripture one Verse or Sentence if it makes up sence so every part of the Liturgy as in form and manner therein contained is Liturgy and Worship thereafter is according to the Liturgy though it be but part of the Worship R. B. Prove any such Idolatry or Heresie in the Church Worship by the Liturgy and we will avoid it J. O. The Question is not de Quanto but de Quali if we prove Sin twisted in the Constitution and System so that if we have communion with one we must partake in the other it 's enough we are not to partake in fore-known Sins that we are convinced of nor should we commit any Sin willingly that good may come of it If a Worship be not really a Sinful Worship yet if we believe it so or question whether it be lawful or no we may not have Communion with it R. B. Heathens and Turks have good Prayers J. O. That Divinity wants several grains of Salt and when you have done all it will stink R B. Psal 16 4. Is too sadly abused which speaks only of Sacrificing to and Worshipping False Gods J. O. Though it specifie but one sort of False VVorship yet if it speak of it as such then it 's applicable justly to another and if that be False Worship we are speaking of it 's applicable to it and the place is not abused R. B. God put it into the Disciples power to beware of the Leven of the Pharisees and hear them J. O. God commanded them to bewaâ—â— of the Leven of them i. e. their false Doctrines and Traditions c. he never bid his Disciples to have Communion in one or the other though he told them Moses Chair was yet standing he had no other Church or Ordinances yet on Earth and the Constitution was Originally his own though now much corrupted by Corrupt Officers and humane Inventions VVell saith he attend the Ordinances and Offices of this Church yet but take heed of their Leven and Corruption he doth not bid them taste of the Leven to prove whether it be so when they know it and he told them what it was Nay you will say a corrupt Church-Communion is to be parted with for a better our case is such but in Christ's case and his Disciples it was not so If they had not Communion with that Church they could not with any on Earth then Besides it was his Church and he purchased it with his Blood and he had choice Members in it but he alwayes witnessed against the corruptions of it and had no Communion with them Lastly he was Lord of the Vinyard and his Precept is a Law let the like be shewed for your practice That Case and ours differs toto Caelo R. B. Prove all things is not approving all things J. O. The place is 1 Thes 5.21 Prove all things hold fast that which is good that 's necessarily accompanied with avoiding that which is evil I must prove no longer than till I find it to be good or evil and if the All things be matters of Practice I am not to prove them by doing them before I know them to be in genere morali bona or mala or licita at least for I may not do a doubtful action meerly to try whether it be good or no this were to tempt God and wound my Conscience but a doubtful action whilst such must be suspended Prove all things is especially to be understood of Doctrines that are pretended to be good and I know no other but they are so till I hear them and when I hear them and find them not so I reject them as evil and have no more to do with them to countenance them if this proving be applied to positive Actions it must be by Pre-Examination of the nature of the thing and circumstances before hand till I understand it as before-said Manuscript It is to be considered as armed with Laws 1. Such as declare and enjoyn it as the only True Worship of the Church 2. Such as prohibit condemn and punish all other wayes of the Worship of God in Church-Assemblies by our Communion and Conjunction with it we justifie those Laws R. B. That our Communion justifieth all the Laws that impose the Liturgy yea the Penal Severities is to gross an Error to be written with any shew of proof Error 2d J. O. Active Obedience to any Law justifieth the Mandatory part of the Law as good either absolutely or circumstantially and comparatively pro hic nunc but. passive Obedience doth not justifie necessarily either
Amen to all he Common Prayer save that for the Bishops by which all thâ—â—e know his miâ—d whether it were â—ight or wrong I now determine 〈◊〉 So here are tâ—ree more of your Mistakes Mâ—rk'd 7 8 9 Errors J. O. Iâ—â—his the onlâ— proof you bring of your charge of three Errors â—hâ—â— olâ— Mr. â—â—uâ—pâ—â—â— F n would not say Amen to the Prayers for the Bishops and you do noâ— determine it Right or wrong And yet his practice or rather offensive forbearance is proof enough of three Errors in the Manuscript Is not this an admirable way of Reasoning I had thought Errors in Divinity had been to have been proved from the Word of God and not from the sullen practices of an half-pac'd doting Nonconformist which you know not whether it be Right or Wrong surely Wrong for Mr. Fen he ought to have pray'd for his Pastor R. B. You make all other Reserves of our own to be allowed neither by God nor good men And this mark'd for two Errors X XI J. O. The Words are By this Rule must our Profession and Practice be judged that is by their agreement or non-agreement with the Churches Rule of Worship The common understanding of all both Conformists and Dissenters is That any man that holds communion with the Church in the Worship of the Lyturgy doth give to the world an Evidencing Token of his Incorporation with the Church of England in its present constitution and so did Mr. Fen for all his refusal of his Amen for the Bishops and such Reserves as those are not allowed by God or by good men For a man to joyn in communion with a Church and have a reserve that it is not such a Church as they profess themselves to be that the Pastor is no Pastor and not fit so much as to pray'd for that 's a sweet Church-member R. B. Here are two mistakes 1. God makes it our great duty to hold Communion with most or all the Churches on Earth with these Reserves i. e. to own them in all that is good and disown all their evil though the Laws command the owning of them Without this Reserve I would not joyn with yours or any Church on Earth J. O. And with this Reserve you may hold Communion with the Church of Rome and you may keep any company of any sort This Principle smells very strong of I know what I know also who can swear any Faith or Allegiance never intending to keep one word of it and call it good Divinity it 's all salved well enough hwit a Reserve yea and can do any evil actions and it 's all well enough if there is a good meaning and a reserve This I think you call Mental Separation elsewhere it is an admirable Panacaea for a man to carry about in his pocket now-a-days But I pray will it serve in all cases of Church-Communion when you know of Sin that will certainly be committed in the Worship before you come to it and that you must practically by visible participation have Communion in that Sin or Error will a Reserve preserve you from the guilt of that Sin That which you speak of is another thing all Administrators and Churches are liable to Errors but we speak of Errors in the Rule of Worship and the conditions of Communion fore-known fore-judg'd by you will God or good men allow of such We speak not of the ordinary personal failings of men could you by vertue of this Reserve submit to Re-baptizâ—tion the condition of their Church Communion And many Instances might be given of the like Nature R. B. And it is an immodest Error to say that none are good men that are not of your mind J. O. It 's an immodest false thing if you affirm that ever Dr. O. said so or that there is any such thing in the Manuscript Manuscript He that joyns in the Worship of the Common Prayer doth by his Practice make Profession that it is the true Worship of God accepted with him approved of him and wholly agreeable to his mind and will To do it with other Reserves is Hypocrisie and worse then the thing it sâ—lf without them Happy is he that condemneth not himself in the thing which he alloweth Rom. 14.12 R. B. This is the 12th Mistake and one that hath dreadful consequents 1. It contradicteth the Express Profession of the Communicants who openly tell the World That they take not the Lyturgy to be wholly agreeable to Gods mind and will and you are not to feign a Profession of men contrary to their open Protestation J. O. If men apparâ—ntly prâ—ctice contrary to their Protestation I call that and all men do Profession and I feign it not If men profess that the revealed mind and will of God is the only unerring Rule of Worship with their Tongues and yet in practice submit to and joyn in Communion with a Worship which they openly declare to be by a false and Erring Rule they make their Profession contradict their Profession For they that cann't justifie a Rule as wholly agreeable to the mind and will of God and declare that it is not so and yet worship God according thereunto do practice contrary to their declared Profession This we stand to as Truth and will never be baffied to the Worlds End R. B. It is most direful to your own Separating Followers who by this are supposed to profess all your Worship to be agreeable to Gods mind and will And so all the honest well-meaning People are made guilty of all the Errors which you put into your Worship J. O. That Spirit of bitterness that appears here in this undertaking of yours as many other things of the like Nature little becomes a Minister of Christ and one that in effect hath sometimes writ himself Our Brother and Companion in Tribulation and in the Kingdom and Patience of Jesus Christ I could speak much of my mind to you upon this Subject but for some Reasons I only hint as Verbum Sapienti how sharp many of your Invectives have been in the Hearts and Spirits of Christ's Members 1. For your putting the title so often of Separatists Separating followers dividing Separatists upon those who are tender of the Honour of God in the Purity of his Ordinances you do but therein Espouse the Quarrel the Beast hath had with the Woman ever since she came into the Wilderness in laying all manner of Reproaches upon her Seed as well as Sufferings for hiding her self from his Abominations and keeping their Garments undesiled by false Worship The day will come that you will see those standing upon Mâ—unt Zion singing the Song of Moses and the Lamb to be Separating followers not of me but of the Lamb. 2. We endeavour to teach those people you so contemptibly mention That God is to be Worshipped by a Rule wholly agreeable to his mind and will yea and a perfect and unerring Rule not of mans making and unagreeable to Gods mind and