affections to his will reueled but also our reason appeare it neuer so probable With the which if we stand not satisfied but quarreling with God will or dare in a blynd fury ask to what purpose commandeth and speaketh he one thing meaneth the contrary That deuelishe presumption shall fall down from the clouds and break downe for euer the frantick heads of such vile slaues of proud lucifer And therefor be ye warned for vengeance is prepared for all such vnreuerent reasoners in gods perfect but yet profound iudgementes as ye declare your selues to be in this which foleweth If God say you in respect of his reueled will wold not that Adam should falle but in respecte of his secrete will he wold Adam should fallâ— then did God will two contraries which is impossible Answere Impossible we confesse it to be that contrarietie should be in that will which in it self is simple and one But how shall you be able to proue that God in reueling his will to Adam had none other purpose nor will but onely that Adam should not falle because say you he said thou shalt not eate I answer so said he to AbrahaÌ„ thou shalt take aÌ„d offer thy sonne in sacrifice And yet we knowe that the contrarie had he determined O crye you God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other and yet ye abhorre nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing as that AdaÌ„ should not offeÌ„d will the cotrarie as that AdaÌ„ should offend Answer God if his good pleasure be towch your heartes with such vnfeined repeÌ„tance that you may vnderstand howe horrible be these blasphemies which thus in your furious blindnes you spew forth against gods supreme Maiestie for before I haue said they are not spoken against vs. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirme as that of which you gather these blasphemies aÌ„d albeit we did yet it were as easie for vs to dissolue aÌ„d vnlouse such deuelish knottes as by instructioÌ„ of your father you knit to trippe y e soules of the simple as it is for y e fote of the valiant strong maÌ„ to burst a sondre the spiders webbes which y e venemous spider maketh to catch the impoteÌ„t flies and feble gnattes And now left y â— you should glorie as thogh yo r reasons yet stoode sure Let vs trie aÌ„d examine euery membre aparte God abhorreth say you a dooble heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other I answer That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor bodie like as man hath so must not his words cogitations and thoghtes be compared to ours for as we be corrupte liers and vaine so where we do speak one thing and think an other we do meane deceate fraud and destruction to our brother to whome we promise trueth fidelitie conseruation to our power But God according to the puritie and perfection of his godlie nature in speaking to his creatures and in creating of them must not absolutely haue respect to theÌ„ but also to his owne glory for what reason is it that God of nothiÌ„g shall make that câ—eature by whome his glory shall not be manyfested and therefor in speaking to Adam and in giuing a lawe to him God had respecte to his eternall counsell purpose as before we haue spoken and hereafter shall rehears But still crye you that yet we burden God w t that which he caÌ„not abyde in his creatures that is that he should speak one thiÌ„g as that Adam should not haue fallen and that he ment the contrarie for answer I ask of you if ye will binde God to that lawe which he hath imposed to his creatures And if ye will leaue none other libertie to God his soueraigne maiestie then his lawe hath permitted to men subiecte to the same and if ye dare promise to your selues that authoritie ouer God girde your loines and play the stroÌ„g champions prepare your seates appoint your iudges cite and adiourne him to appeare at a fixed day to rendre a reason a make an accoÌ„pte before you of his vniuersall regiment in which no doubt ye shall finde many things more repugnant to your reason then this You think I mock you in that I wil you to cite and call God to an accoÌ„pt in very dede I do for as your blasphemie pride is vtterlie to be abhorred so is your vanitie more worthie to be mocked then your simplicitie in that case to be instructed for what was he euer yet amongest the most ignorant ethnicks so foolishe or so presumpteous but that he did confesse that the workes and wonders of the supreme God were exempted from all lawe and censure of mans iudgement But in your presence God shall haue no libertie to command or forbid any thing to any of his creatures but that he must nedes absolutely will the same and for no cause or respecte may he will the contrarie but that he shall haue a dooble heart he shal be a disseÌ„bler cursed be your blasphemie that causeth me thus to write and in him there shal be coÌ„trarietie this is the reuerence which ye beare to gods infinite wisdome in all his workes to the ground whereof ye can not atteine by your corrupt reason that you burst forth in scoffing mocking and blasphemie But yet to come more nye to the mater I denie that iustly you can conclude any contrarietie to be in God albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eate and yet in his eternall counsell he had determined that Adam shoulde eate neither yet I say caÌ„ you be able to proue that he spoke one thing willed the contrarie because he pronounced this sentence in what so euer day thow shalt eate of this tree thou shalt dye the death but rather we maye most assuredly conclude that both the precept the penaltie threatned to ensue the violation of it was a plaine and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternall counsell as also that they were the meanes by the which the secret will and good purpose of God toke effecte amongest men was notified vnto the world for if God had not before appointed the falle and the remedie for the same he had not imposed vpon him a lawe the transgression whereof should bring death but should haue suffered him to liue without such feare and bondage as we shall do when victorie shal be giuen ouer death which is the sting of sinne ouer sinne also which had his power by the lawe And therefor I say that gods commandement forbidding Adam to eate and the punishment of death denounced if he did eate were nothing contrary to his secret will but were the very wayes appointed by his infinite wisdome by the which he had determined that his secrete will concerning the mysterie of maÌ„s redemption should be notified put in execution
Now what greater crueltie tyrannie and oppressioÌ„ can be then to creat the most parte of the world to euerlasting damnation so that by no maner of mean they can escaip and auoid the cruell decre and sentence against theÌ„ Seing the Philosopher Plato iudged them vnworthie to liue and to be suffered in any commoÌ„ welth which spake euill of God what oght our iudgements to be of such men which haue so wicked and opinion of God what so euer our iudgement be of them and what so euer their deseruing be let vs labore rather to win them then to lose them But forasmuch as he which toucheth pitche is in danger to be defiled there with Therefor oght we to walk warely with such men that we be not defyled and infected of them Specially seing that now a daies this horrible doctrine doeth freate euen as the disease of a cankar which infecte from one membre to an other vntill it hath occupied the hole bodie without it be cut away euen so this error hath alredie infected from one to an other a greate nombre The lord grante them the true meaning and vnderstanding of his worde whereby they may be healed and the sicknes cut of the membre being saued ANSWER Becaus that in all this your long discourse ye more shew your malice which vniustly against vs ye haue conceaued then y t either ye oppugne our beleif either yet promote your fals opinion I will not spend the tyme to recompence your dispite Onely this I will offer in the name of all may brethren that if you be able in presence of a lawfull iudge and magistrate euidently to coÌ„uict vs y t either we speak euill of God either yet y t by our writinges preaching or reasoning it iustly can be proued that our opinion is euill of his eternall maiestie power wisdom and goodnes that then we refuse not to suffer the same punishment which you by the auctoritie of Plato iudge vs worthy of Yea we further offer our selues willingly to vnderlie the verey death which God by his law hath appointed to all blasphemers prouided that you refuse not to vnderlie the same penaltie if falsly ye accuse vs. What is your studies to win vs and whether our doctrine be horrible error or not I do not now dispute Thus you reason THE ADVERSARIE God created man a verey good thing and dare you say that God ordeined a verey good thing to destruction Then God deliteth in the destruction of that which is verie good Man at his creation was a iust and innocent creature â–ª for afore the transgreâ—sion there was no euill neither in Adam nor in vs and think you that God ordeined his iust and innocent creatures to condemnation what greater tyrannie and vnrighteousnes can the most wicked man in the world yea the deuil him self do then to condemne the innocent and iust person Hereby may we se that these careles man by more abominable then the Athei which beleue there is no God But these affirme God to be as bad as the deuil yea and worse for asmuch as the deuil can onely tempt a man to death but he can compell none to fall vnto coÌ„demnation but God may not onely tempt but also compell â—y his eternall decre the most part of the world to damnation And hath so done as they say â–ª so that of necessitie and onely because it was his pleasure and will then must God be worse then the deuil For the deuil onely tempted men to fall but God compelleth them to fall by his immutable decre Oh horrible blasphemie ANSVVER Becaus that before plainely and simply I haue declared our iudgement of gods eternall election and most iust reprobation in all these your dispitefull arguments I will onely shew your malice ignorance and proude vanitie This is your argument God created man a verie good thing therefor he did not ordein him to destructioÌ„ your reason is for that is contrarie to his iustice to ordein a good thing to destructioÌ„ I answere if ye be able to proue that man stoode in the same goodnes perfectioÌ„ and innoceÌ„tie he aÌ„d his posteritie whome so hieghly ye praise in the which he was first created then will I confesse your argument to be good But if man albeit he was created good did yet willingly make him self euill how can it be contrarie to the iustice of God to appoint punishmeÌ„t for transgression which he did not onely fore se by an idle speculation or yet suffre and permitt against his omnipotent will but in his eternall counsell for the manifestatioÌ„ of his own glory had decreed the same Against which albeit ye cry horrible blasphemie till your braines drop out yet haue we Moises Exod. 9. Isaiah 6. Salomon and Paul to absolue vs from your cruell senteÌ„ce For they do affirme that God hath created all thinges for his own glorie and the wicked to the day of destruction that he raised vp Pharao that his power might be shewen furth in him that he blindeth the eis and hardeneth the heartes of some so that they can neither heare nor se that they may conuert That God hath prepared bothe vessels of mercie and vessels of wraith which places albit som of them seme not to appertein to the creation yet if they be iustly weyed it shall euidently appere that the hardnes of mennes heartes their blindnes and stubborn malice are not onely punishments of sinne but also are the effects of reprobation like as faith obedience and other vertues be the fre giftes of God geuen in Christ Iesus to those whom he hath elected in him But yet to your argument which thus ye amplifie do ye think that God ordeined his iust and innocent creatures to damnation what greater tyrannie and vnrighteousnes can the most wicked man in the earth yea the deuil him self do then to coÌ„demne a iust aÌ„d an innocent person I answer as before that your argument is nought worthe For you conclude more then ye be able to proue of your two former propositioÌ„s which be those God created man a verie good thing Trew it is and God reprobated maÌ„ and shall also condeÌ„ne him whoÌ„ he created good I grant also Therefor he damned the good thing which he created or that thing which is verie good I deny the conclusion For before demnation there cometh a change in man so that he of verie good became extreme euill and so gods iust iudgements found nothing but that which is euill to condemne You forme your reason as that God had so created maÌ„ good that he by no meanes after could be made euill which last part is fals and so you are deceaued If ye caÌ„not se iust causes why God should make that thing verie good which after should becom exttreme euill accuse your own blindnes and desire of God to repres in you that presumption and pryde which against the eternall Sonne of God you haue conceaued and so your eyes
same And will also touche the rest of these your argumentes so briefly as I can Where ye reason that we were all created in one mā that is in Adam So were we all created in one estate c. If ye vnderstād that we were all created in one estate that is in that estate which shortly was to change becaus that God had so determined in his eternal counsell that by the fall of one his infinite mercie towardes his chosen ād seuere iudgement towardes the vessels of wraith should euidently appere in the tyme appointed by his wisdom If this I say you vnderstand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you Albeit in verey dede in that self same masse there were at once vessels of mercy ād vessels of wraith But because ye open yo ◠minde in the cōtrarie part saing That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief I am compelled vtterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirme that becaus none did stand to the end in that image but all fell euē to death in Adam that therefor neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it was any created vnto lief but in Christ Iesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief euerlasting euen before that euer Adam was created as the Apostle plainely doeth witnes Where ye go about to proue by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world not to be conforme to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant ye declare your self not onely ignorāt vaine and foolishe but also irreuerent and blasphemous against gods maiestie for ye so far as in you lieth spoile him of his Godhead making him to chāge his counsell purpose and ordinance euen so oft as the creatures do chāge where we by the cōtrarie labour to explane ād not to escaip any violēce of your dartes by a bare solution as ye alledge but by the plaine scriptures openly we do affirme that as our God is eternall incomprehensible and immutable so are his counsels constant subiect to no immutabilitie nor change cōstant I say in God him self how so euer thinges change to our apprehensiō And therefor we say that neither in his election before the world neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude was it his eternall coūsell purpose nor ordināce that all the posteritie of Adam should be saued And so can ye not proue that God destroyed any thing which he had builded Albeit to note one thing by the way Paule wold not haue bene so bold as to haue made him self check mate with God he did not I say accuse God of inconstancie neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor althogh he builded the ceremonies vnder the Law and destroied them againe But to our purpose 〈◊〉 I say destroied nothing which he had builded True it is that man destroied that image which God had builded but that building of God was but temporall and for a tyme onely but the perfect building of his churche was in Christe Iesus builded before the foundations of the world were laid which building God neuer destroied nor shall destroy but shall cōsummate the work to the praise of his holie name To him be glory In your hole reasoning of the wordes of the Apostle you do erre in this point as before I haue noted that ye make cōmon to all that which y e holie Gost maketh peculiare to gods elect for ye must first proue all to be saintes by vocation all to be blessed with spirituall benediction and to haue obeyed and all to be builded vpon the foundatiō of the Prophetes ād Apostles before y t ye be able to proue that all were elected and predestinate in Christ Iesus before all tymes That we are created in Christe Iesus vnto good workes is not to be referred as ye think to the common creation of all men in Adam but to the new and spirituall regeneration which gods children haue in Christ Iesus for the which Dauid did pray saying a cleā heart creat in me ô God which is no lesse called the creation of God then was the first creation of man for as man in his creation neither wroght neither yet could deserue to be created so honorable as he was but did suffer the power of God to worke euen as it pleased his wisdom to perfourm the work So in our new creation vnto good workes the onely grace and power of God worketh not onely the beginning but also bringeth to perfection so that what so euer be good holie or iust in vs is gods creation and not our worke God open your eies that ye may se that neither in Adam neither yet in our selues were we created to good workes but in Christe Iesus alone And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fre will Your last as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogisme that is a Sophisticall and fals argument for it stādeth on foure termes against the vse of all good and solide reasoning For thus ye procede Saing we be elect and created in Christe Iesus and seing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christe Iesus then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation Here be plainely foure termes for in your Maior that is in the first part of your argument ye say not we were elected and created in our election and in our creation but we were elected ād created in Christ Iesus The secōd propositiō is most trew to witt that there is no condēnation to them that be in Christe Iesus to such as walk not after the fleshe but what can ye conclude hereof that no damnation say you is in election nor in creation I say your conclusion is fals and vaine for you chāge your termes putting in the last part these two wordes Election and creation where ye oght to haue rehearesed these wordes Christ Iesus for thus you may well procede we be elected ād created to good workes in Christ Iesus but to them saieth the Apostle that be in Christ Iesus there is no cōdemnation Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christe Iesus there is no damnation This argument is formall and true but omitting your foolishnes which oftener I am compelled to shew then gladly I wold I go forward with your wordes THE ADVERSARIE If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world then God reprobated man before he offended And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended then is death the reward of gods ordināce afore the world ād not the reward of sinne But the Apostle teacheth vs that by sinne death entred into the world and also that death is the reward of sinne I pray you doeth either gods lawe or mannes law condemne any man afore he hath offended I am certen ye are not able to
then were his workes full of crueltie miserie damnation and destruction Now as touching this saying who is able to resist his will we must learne what is gods will If you ask the Lord he will answer you it is not my will that any man sinne neither is it my will that the sinner die but rather that he amend and liue but if he will not amend but continew in sinne him wil I punishe and him may I also punishe hauing power aboue all men as the potter ouer the clay Wherefor when any man suffereth iustly for his trespasse he oght not to accuse God and say who can resist his will â–ª as God wold absolutely the destruction of his creatures as ye teach God will all men to repent and amend and also that theâ— who will not repent and amend be punished this his will is iust and full of mercie against which will is no man able to resist for either must they repent and amend orels they must suffer As the potter wold gladly make of his clay a good vessell but if it will not frame he breaketh it and casteth it away and as the king wold all his subiects to be obedient vnto his lawes yet the vnworthiest slaue in his dominion hath power to break the kinges lawes Notwithstanding wheÌ„ he suffereth for his offence the kinges will is fulfilled eueÌ„ so thogh God both wille hand coÌ„man deth vs to obserue his law yet haue we power to offend against the former parte of his will otherwies we should all obserue â—he will of God and be saued and so should there be no reprobate But when for our disobedience we be punished the will of God is fulfilled which will is both good and iust and therefor oght no man to accuse it aÌ„d say who is able to resist his wil. No more theÌ„ clay when it framed not to be a good vessell doeth accuse the potter of breaking it ANSWER Ye be not able to proue that in any vehemencie we alledge those wordes of the Apostle in other sentence theÌ„ he wrote theÌ„ for all praise aÌ„d glorie be vnto God the mercifull giuer we haue not so litle profited in the schoole of Christ Iesus that we wold wrest the wordes of the holie Gost to a coÌ„trarie sense We are not ignorant that the Apostle pronouÌ„ceth these wordes in the person of carnall meÌ„ who hearing that God hath mercie vpon those that he wil and that also he maketh hard hearted such as he will do storm and furiously crye wherefor theÌ„ doeth he coÌ„plein who is able to resist his wil. These wordes I say do we not vrge to proue our doctrine for where we affirme that the onely will of God is the perfect reule of all thiÌ„ges which be done aÌ„d are to be done in heaueÌ„ and in earth we build our doctrine vpon euideÌ„t testimonies of the scriptures aÌ„d vpon the cheif principalles of our religioÌ„ and faith Dauid and Isaiah do both aggre that our God who dwelleth in heauen doeth what so euer he will in heaueÌ„ and in earthe that he formeth light and doeth creat darknes that is giueth aswel prosperitie as aduersitie Daniel affirmeth that the supreme God distributeth kingdomes as best semeth to his wisdom and Salomon doeth witnes that against the Lord there is no counsell can preuale The necessarie principalles of o r faith do teach vs that as in God there falleth no ignorance so in him there is no impotencie He doeth not as it were in suspeÌ„se aÌ„d doubt behold the eueÌ„t aÌ„d chaÌ„ce of thiÌ„ges ronning after to seke remedie but that in wisdom hath he disposed all thiÌ„ges willing nothing which he may not and doeth not bring to passe in time according to his eternall purpose and working nothing which is not most iust howbeit the causes thereof be hidde frome vs. Of these and many mo scriptures and necessarie principalles of our faith do we grounde our doctrine and not vpon that one place spoken in the rebuke of the stubborn and rebellious disputers with God ye burden vs that we accuse and make God to be the author of euill aÌ„d the cause of damnation That we cause many brest owt and say since his will and pleasure no man is able to resist let him lay it on him self aÌ„d not to vs if any sinne be committed And last ye affirme that if our sainges be true that then are gods works full of crueltie miserie damnatioÌ„ and destructioÌ„ and so of two thinges ye accuse vs and the thirde ye affirme ineuitably to folow of our doctrine if it be true Here after I will not greatlie labour to confute thy argumeÌ„tes which is a thing most easie euen to any godlie man how beit he had neuer sene arte nor studied the same But seing that thow and thy most pestileÌ„t sect be not content maliciously to sclander those that in such a case be most innoceÌ„t but that also with most impudent mowthes ye vomite furth your horrible blasphemies against gods maiestie I will most earnestlie and most vnfeanedlie require of all reulers Princes Magistrates and gouernors who in the fear of God do ruele aboue their subiects that as they will answer in the presence of the Lord Iesus for the administration of iustice committed to their charge that indifferently they iudge betwext you and vs. To witt that if we can euidently be coÌ„uicted of those crymes which ye most maliciously and most vniustly lay to our charge that then iudgement without mercie be executed against vs. But and if ye fail in your probation and also if ye can not proue crueltie to be in gods workes supposing that our doctrin remaine as that it is trew aÌ„d stable that then such order may be takeÌ„ for repressing of your vennemous tongues that neither ye be permitted thus openly to blaspheme gods Maiestie neither thus maliciously to sclander innocentes and to offend y e eares of all godlie hearers And to the end that meÌ„ shall not think that being at this time accused we beginne to deuise new defenses or excuses of our selues I will faithfully and simply bring furth of the workes as som what I haue done before of that singulare instrument of Christ Iesus in the glone of his Gospell Iohn Caluin such sentences as shall make plaine to all men what our opinion is of God of the fall of man of the woÌ„derous work of our redemption and of the most iust reiection and damnation of the reprobat Thus saieth he dependeth the perdition of the reprobate vpoÌ„ the predestination of God that the cause and the mater is altogither found in them the first man fell because the eternall iudged it expedient why he iudged it we know not yet certeÌ„ it is that he so iudged it not but that he saw the glory of his name thereby to be illustrate when that thow doest heare the mention of gods glorie there also remembre thow iustice to be for of necessitie it is that iust must y t
from God and this thy open blasphemie spoken against his eternall trueth and against such as most constantly did suffer for testimonie of the same haue so broken and desolued all familiaritie which hathe bene betwext vs that althogh thou were my natural brother I durst not conceale thy iniquitie in this case But now to the mater I haue before proued you malicious and vennemous liers therefor vnworthie to bear testimonie against vs. Now resteth to be proued that ye are blasphemers of God and persones defamed â–ª Salomon affirmeth that he that iustifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the innocent are alike abomible before God Which sentence is not to be vnderstaÌ„d of iudges onelie but is to be referred to euerie man for of euerie one doth God require that he hate and in his heart and mouth condemne that which God him self hath coÌ„demned and also that he allow and iustifie that which God pronouÌ„ceth iust lawfull and holie And if the contrarie be founde euen in a multitude God doth not onelie punishe the chief offenders but also vpon their fauorers mainteiners and iustifiers doth he comonly powre the same plagues and vengeance And hereof is that rare and fearefull punishment taken vpon Dathan and Abiram sufficient proofe for they ioyned with Corah were the authors of the conspiracie raised against Moises and Aaron But did they alone sustein the veÌ„geance No but their housholds children wyues tentes and substance in the same conteined did the earth in a moment deuore and swallow vp And why because they did iustifie the cause of those wicked and in so far in as in them lay did maintein the same No man I trust will deny but that he who killeth an innoceÌ„t maÌ„ is a murtherer althogh it be vnder the cloke of iustice But that he who hauing lawfull auctoritie to kill and yet suffereth the murtherer to liue is a murtherer in this perchance som men may doubt But if the law of God be diligently searched this doubt shall easely be resolued For it will witnes that no les oght the murtherer the blasphemer and such other to suffer the death then that the meke and the fearer of God should be defended And also that such as maintein and defend the one are no les criminal before God then those that oppresse the others One example I will adduce for all God gaue in to the handes of Achab Benhadad king of Syria who was great enemie to Israel whom he vpon certen coÌ„ditions of amitie sent home to his countrie But what sentence was prononunced aginst Achab Thus saieth y â— eternall becaus thow hast let go oute of thy handes a man whom I appointed to die thy soule that is thy lief shal be in the place of his life and thy people in y â— place of his people Now to you iustifiers of Seruetus Seruetus was an abominable blasphemer against God and you are iustifiers of Seruetus Therefor ye are blasphemers before God like abominable as he was The maior I intend shortly to proue so far as shal be sufficieÌ„t at this tyme. The minor ye do not denie for some by appologies som by bookes and all by your toÌ„gues do iustifie his cause and the conclusion is infallibly gathered of the former wordes of the holie Gost. Ye will not easely admitt that Seruetus be conuicted of blasphemie for if so be ye must be coÌ„pelled to confesse except that ye will refuse God that the sentence of death executed against him was not crueltie nether yet that the iudges who iustly pronounced that sentence were murtherers nor persecuters but that this death was thâ— execution of gods iudgement and they the true and faithfull seruantes of God who when no other remedie was fouÌ„de did take away iniquitie from amongest them That God hath appointed death by his law without mercie to be executed vpon the blasphemers is euident by that which is written Leuiticus 24. But what blasphemie is may some perchance dout If righteously we shal consider wey the scriptures we shal fynd y t to speak basphemie or to blaspheme God is not onely to denie that there is a God but that also it is lightly to esteme the power of the eternal God to haue or to sparse abrode of his maiestie such opinions as may make his God head to be douted of To depart froÌ„ y e true honoring religion of God to the imagination of mans inuentions Obstinatly to maintein and defend doctrine diabolicall opinions plainely repugning to Gods trueth To iudge those thinges which God iudgeth necessarie for our saluation not to be necessarie And finaly to persecute the trueth of God and the membres of Christes bodie Of the first and second sort both was Sennacherib and proud Rabsases who comparing God with the Idoles of the Gentiles did not onely lightly esteme his godly power but also so far as in theÌ„ was studied to take out of the heartes of the Israelites all right and perfect opinion of God At whom the Prophet in the person of God demandeth this questioÌ„ whom hast y u blasphemed Of the third sort were bothe Israél and Iuda declining to idolatrie against Gods expresse commandmeÌ„t whom the Prophetes so often do affirme to blaspheme the holy one of Israel Because saieth Isaiah they haue repudiated the Lawe of the Lord of hostes and the worde of the holie one of Israel contumeliously haue they blasphemed And Ezechiel after that he hath most sharply rebuked the Israelites for their idolatrie he addeth yet in this your fathers haue blasphemed me thogh they had before grieuously transgressed against me for when I had broght them into the land for the which â— lifted vp my haÌ„d to giue it theÌ„ they sawe euery hie hill and all the thicke trees and they offered there their sacrifices and there they presented their offering c. Of the fourth sort were Hymeneus and Alexander whom Paul gaue to the deuil that they shoulde learne not to blaspheme Of the â—ift sort were the multitude of the Iewes who iudged and to this day do iudge the death of Christ Iesus his blessed ordinance the publike preaching of his Euangil and the administration of his Sacrements to be nothing necessarie to our saluation And of the last doeth not Paul denie him self to haue bene a blasphemer and a persecuter before his coÌ„uersion Now if I shal plainely proue the most parte yea all these except ye will say he shed no mans blood to haue bene in your great prophete Seruet â— yea yet to be in you all of the Anabaptisticall sort haue I not sufficiently proued both him and you blasphemers Albeit I be more nere of his and your counsel theÌ„ any of you doeth knowe or suspect yet wil I not vtter at this present all that I can but wil abide till such oportunitie as God shal offer vnto me to notifie his and your poison to the Church of God that of the
peruers dâ—ctryne â—e will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the Iewes be deludâ—d That 〈◊〉 they esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence coÌ„mitted by Adam euen so may I collect of your error-for what nedeth Christ to die for them whom nether Adams transgression â–ª nether their own could make them fall from gods election but now I will more largely dilate this argument Election was afore the world when there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sitheÌ„se the world was created because of sinne for had not sinne bene we neded no new promes being alredie iust and holie images of God Now if the elect did not fall out of the election by AdaÌ„s traÌ„sgressâ—on then nede they no redemer being alredie safe by reason of the electioÌ„ in which they were afore sinne aÌ„d remaine still in the same Because as you say the elect nether did nor can fall out of the election Then seing the elect be safe and hole they nede no phisition nether came Christ to call the righteous but â—innâ—rs wherfor the death of Christ as concerning them is in vain they being safe alredie by election The like argument vseth Paul to the Galathyaâ—s if righteousnes cometh by the Law then Christ died in vaine if the elect â–ª be stâ—ll in the fauor of God what nede they of Christ to reconcile them to the father in whose fauore they are alredie Now as touching the other sorte whom ye call reprobates you say they caÌ„ by no maner of meanes be saued yea that Christ died not for them then was Chistes death altogither in Vaine â–ª for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate and the elect haue no nede of it Is not this godlie gere ANSWER In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to proue y t Christes preciouse death was surperfluouse and vaine if the elect did not fall from their election this reason ye vse Election was afore the world wheÌ„ there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sithence the world was created becaus of sinne for had not sinne bene we nedâ—d no newe promes being alredie iust and holie â—mages of God Now if the elect say you did not fall out of the election by Adams transgression then nede they no râ—demer being alredie saue by reason of the election in the which they were afore sinne and remaine still in the same c â–ª In this argument ye commit two fowle faultes The first ye take that for a thing true aÌ„d coÌ„fessed which is fals and therefore by vs alwaies denied for thus ye reason man was elected before the worlde was created but man sinned aftre the world was created Ergo man fel from his election we still denie the conclusion and do affirme that as we were elected in Christ Iesus before all times so did the elect euer remainâ— in Christ. and therfore after that they had sinned it behoued that the promes shoulde be declared that by the same the elect might receaue comfort and be assured of their election Your second fault more declareth youre grosse ignorance in the mysterie of our redemption for from election ye streight waies leap to glorificacion and saluation obseruing nether middes nor meanes which gods wisdome hath appointed and determined to go betwext Trew it is God hath elected in Christ to life euerlasting his chosen childreÌ„ But how Sainct Paul yea the hole scriptures wheresoeuer mention is made of our election ioyneth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him but that he shoulde sustein the punishement for our transgression And that we shoulde receaue life which we had lost in Adam and in our selues by the meanes of his death and resurrection therefore where ye reason if the elect did not fall oute of the Election by Adams transgressioÌ„ theÌ„ nede they no redemer being alredie saued by reason of their election the coÌ„clusion is fals and the reason vaine for the elect haue nede of a redemer not because that they did fal out of election but by reason that they did fal from iustice to sinne froÌ„ obedieÌ„ce to dissobedieÌ„ce therefore nede they a redemer a phisicion aÌ„d one to giue theÌ„ life because y t they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sicknes death by their own traÌ„sgression If ye can proue y t the elect did not sinne that they are noâ— sicke then might ye haue concluded that they neded no redemer nor phisition And so ye might haue proceded in your argument vpon the wordes of the Apostle saing that if righteousnes cometh by the law then Christ died in vaine but seing that all gods childreÌ„ are fallen in to sinne the bondage and miserie wherof they in this lief coÌ„tinually fele how iustly ye may conclude that becaus they remained in gods election and so consequently in his fauor by Christ that therefor they neded no redemer let the indifferent reader iudge If it seme straÌ„ge to you that God loued sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alledged for probation of that part heare what the veritie it self pronounceth So God loued the world saieth our master that his onelie begotten Sonne hath he giuen whom soeuer ye shall vnderstand vnder the name of the world ye can not sâ—clude sinners from it where ye most vnreuerently ask what then nede they of Christ to recoÌ„cile them I answer with greater feare and reuerence then alas you declare euen such nede they haue of Christ as the bodie hath of the soule or yet the liuing maÌ„ of holsome nuriture yea much more for albeit the bodie haue lief by the meanes of meat and drink yet haue the elect nether lief nor reconciliation but by Christ Iesus yea and that by the meanes of his deathe and passion by the which iust payment and satisfaction is made to gods iustice for their sinnes And so are they reconciled who by nature are the enemies to God We do not denie but that Christes death is sufficient for to redeme the sinnes of the hole world but because all do not receaue it with faith which is the fre gift of God giuen to the chosen children therefor abyde thâ— vnfaithfull in iust condemnation God remitt vnto you if his good pleasure be aswell your vnreuerent conclusion as your most vniust accusation in which ye burden vs that we will infect the Christianitie with the chief error with the which the Iewes are infected who esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the sinnes and offences committed by Adam Assuredly I do more then woÌ„der that such impietie shal be found in any creature indewed with reason but I remitt iudgemeÌ„t to God Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE The Apostle saieth God hath frome the begining choseÌ„ you to saluatioÌ„ through sanctifiyng of the the spirit
and when Moses did repete the same he said Behold I haue laid before you this day life and death benediction and execration chose therefore life that thou and thy sede may liue If God wold that all men and all nations indiffereÌ„tly should come to the same knowledge why were not the lawes statutes and iudgemeÌ„tes of God made manifest to others as they were to Israel And if you answer that so they were the holy Gost shall coÌ„uict you of a liâ— For he affirmeth that God had not done so to all nations and that his iudgemeÌ„tes he had not reueled nor made knowen vnto them But if that plaine diuision made by God him selfe betwext Iew and GeÌ„tile during the time of the law doth not fully satisfie you Heare yet the sentence of our Master Christ Iesus who saith to his disciples To you it is giuen to vnderstand the secretes of the kingdom but vnto others in parables that hauing eyes they should not see And y t most plainely in that his solemned thâ—Ì„ckes giuing he saith I praise the ô father for y u hast hidde these thinges from the prudent and from the wise but y u hast reueled them to litle ones If God wold haue had the true knowledge of him selfe and of his Sonne Christ Iesus common to all why should Christ him selfe affirme y t to some it was giuen to others it was not giuen to some it was reueâ—ed froÌ„ others it was hidde And therefore seing it is plaine y t God will not giue his true knowledge to all yea to some he doth neuer offer it ye shall neuer be able to proue that God will all men to be saued For the onely meanes to atteine to saluation and to life is to know and embrace God to be our merâ—ifull father in Christe Iesus to w c knowledge who so euer doth not atteine I meane of those y t come to y e yeares age of discretion can haue no assuraÌ„ce to be saued This were sufficient to coÌ„uict you euen in your owne coÌ„science For albeit malice will not suffer you to giue place to y e plaine veritie yet shall the weight therof so oppresse your pride that when you do open your mouth against it yeâ— shall ye be witnesses euen against yo r selues But yet for the cause of my simple brethereâ— I will adde two thinges first how all such places as ether make a general promes of saluation to all or yet that do pronounce gods wrath against all must be vnderstand Secondarely what sinners they are wose death God will not For the first I say that who so euer doth denie that from the beginning there hath bene this day are and to y e endâ— shall remaine two armies bandes or companies of men whom God in his eternall counsell hath so deuided that betwext theÌ„ there coÌ„tinueth a battâ—ll w c neuer shal be reconciled vntill the Lord Iesus put a finall ende to the miseries of his Church who doth not vnderstand the trueth of this I say doth nether know God nether his Sonne Christ Iesus nether yet do such beleue his word in w c both y e one sort y e other are most manifestly expressed The one of these Armies is called the Church of God the elect Spouse of Christe Iesus y e shepe appointed to slaughter the kingly priesthode the sonnes of God and the people redemed by ancient writtets it is termed the citie of God The other is called the sinagoge of satan the church malignant cruell deceat full and bloodthirstie wolues Progenie of vipers sonnes of the deuill workers of iniquitie and such as worship the beast and his image And according to the diuers natures coÌ„ditions and endes of these two companies doth the scripture pronounce generall sentences and vniuersall propositions which not withstaÌ„ding must be restreined to those of whom the holy Gost meaneth For nether iustly may those sentences spoken of gods elect be referred to the reprobate nether yet such as be spoken of the reprobate sorte be rightly applied to the elect except it be for terrifying of their conscience and that onely for a ceason as Christ Iesus called Peter sathanas and Nathan called Dauid the Sonne of death I will adduce examples of the one sort and of the otherâ— that the mater may be more euident The Prophet Isai which place also our Master alledgeth speaking of gods elect childreÌ„ saith They shall all be taught of God and they shall know me froÌ„ the least to the greatest I shall powre forth of my spirite on all flesh All flesh shall see the saluation of God The Lord raiseth vp all that fall All the inhabitantes of the earth shall learne iustice All men shall come out of Saba All thy people shable iust I shall comfort all that mourne You be all the Sonnes of God ye be all the Sonnes of light These and many mo places which be vniuersally spoken must be restreyned to gods children onely who be elected in Christe Iesus For those that be with out his body are nether taught of God nether yet know they God in such sort as the Prophet there meaneth Into them is neuer powred the spirite of sanctification They giue neuer vnto God true honor and glorie They nether learne iustice nether yet are they iust They are not the sonnnes of God by adoption nether yet the sonnes of light whose workes shine before men to the praise of our heauenly father But remaine ignorant prophane idolaters filthie persones replenished with darckenes as the sonnes of the deuill And therefore can not these former sentences which apperteine to gods children onely be rightly spoken or pronounced of the reprobate Of the other sort it is said All that see me haue mocked me they put furth their toÌ„gues they shake their heades These wordes spake Dauid in the persone of Christe and yet God forbid that we should think that all without exception did so mocke and iest at Christe no not euen in his greatest extremitie For some we reade stode beside his crosse with sorowfull heartes Some returned giuing open confession that he was the Sonne of God And the thefe began to be a preacher eueÌ„ when others did most dispitefully rayle And therefore where it is said all that saw me did mocke me that generalitie must be restreined to those enraged dogges the Priestes Scribes wicked souldiours and most vnthaÌ„kfull people who of verye malice did deny and crucifie their Lord and Messias that was promised â–ª Isai and Ieremie speaking of the destruction of Ierusalem and of the causes of the same say I shall consume you all at once and ye shall all be ashamed by a people that shall not profit you They haue all folowed their owne waies Euery man gapeth for bribes Why will ye contend with me ye haue all declined from me From the least to the most euerie one is bent vpon auarice they are