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A93718 Councel of states-policy or the rule of government, set forth. Shewing the nature of our presen [sic] government. In a dialogue between a country man and a scholler; as also the various regiments of nations, kingdomes, and Common-weales, and a lively description of the said governments, with the grounds of their rise, continuance, and fall. viz. Monarchicall. Aristocraticall. Oligarchicall. Democraticall, &c. Whereunto is added the new engagement, to be taken throughout the Common-wealth, as touching t[h]e lawfullnes of it. / By Robert Spry, of Plymouth Gent. Spry, Robert. 1650 (1650) Wing S5088; Thomason E1354_1 19,858 64

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maintaining of their weak Neighbours C. Did the Roma●s regard the Religion of their Enemies S. The Religion of ●●●ir Enemies they had of it rever●nd esteem how soever they strictly observed Patri●s Rit●s yet they often brought home Peregrinos Deos. and in the besieging of Cities they had many Ceremonics and expiations ad evocandum tutelares loci Deos to shew they sought not against their Gods but d●sired they would not succour their people and so should be reverenced in the Roman Territory After the Roman Empire was grown to the height and could not sustaine their own greatnesse and the Civill weeds sprang all those Rites were omitted or forgotten Ambition openly professed that it fought Pro imperio neither was there any cause pretended between the Concurre●ces but the getting of the Empire On th●se termes the world passed untill Mahomet devised a new and strange Religion in the East parts which set the world in a mighty difference laying two grounds to encourage his followers the first that whosoever dyed in War against the Christians or other Enemies to the Mahometan Law did instantly passe to all pleasure and delights in Paradise The s●cond that death was so necessarily ordained to men that n● violence would end a man befo●e his time nor wearinesse avoid it at the time Of this Mahomet the Saracens first and after them the Turks a mightie people borrowed their Religion Of him ther Haman family l●arned to cover the fier of Ambition wish t●e Ashes of Religion and under pretence to propogate it to perswade their followers both to fight and ●o dye resolutely C. I partly beleeve that the Pope and his Pred●c●ssors have hitherto walked by the Mahometan Rule you last discoursed of S. The Papa●● in th● generall have very much followed this course or rule as you call it concealing all their privat revenges and ambitions desires under the pretence of the Catholick cause And that with that confident perswasion and c●edulity of heir fellowes that many of the Pap●sticall Souldiers if he hath a Cro●●e o● his back and the Papisticall benediction over his head think that either they are not of danger in earth orif they dye they have a present passage to Heaven at least shall passe through Pur● gatory and so escape Hell In this point there is great difference betwix● the present and anci●nt Romans ●hat the ol● Romans had a reverend opinion of the Religion of all Countries though different from them and would never suff●r any despight or wrong to be sh●w●d to the Conq●●r●d under that name of R●ligion which is not in perticular mens power to take or leave as they list The present Papists m●ke their decrees the R●les of all truth in Religion and those that are different th●y curse and mis●hiefe by all m●ans th●y can invent accounting them Atheists Miscreants and Hereticks c. which violent proceeding hath enforced the like vehemency in the opposites to judge of him and his in like sort which hath been the sole cause of the great distraction in Christendome and laid it so open to the Mahometans There is no mischiefe that works so dangerously as that which is carryed with a Colour of Religion Simulata sa●ctitas duplex iniqu●tas For that nothi●g can carry a multitude so forci●ly as blind z●●l and superstition in any cause undertaken In times past Sortorius a Roman raised Portugall and the better part of Spaine defeated the Roman Armies wo●king credit with his followers by pretendi●● confer●nce with Diana by means of a White hart Mahomet by his Dove and Bull of late times the Seriff● in Africa under a pretended Holinesse gate first his strength by which ●e turned the lawfull Prince out of the State and setled himselfe and his John of Leyden at one time and Muncerus at another time raised those great Tum●lts in Germany C. Sir in your description of Government I remember you told me that order was maintained or supported by those three things Religion Law and Magistrater you have given me ample satisfaction concerning Religion I desire you would now discover to me what Law is S. Lawes are certaine Rules written or customs continued by which the right of persons actions or things are determined Ius triplex est 1. Ius naturae Is the light of nature by which we know what is wrong being offered unto us and that the same is wrong being committed by our selves against others 2. Ius Ge●tiu● The Law observed by all Nations how different so ever and is the rule deciding right between men of sundry Common we●lths and it specially concerns Leagues Contracts Captives c. 3. Ius Civile Is that by which the Citizens of every state are ruled and it is of two sorts 1. Ius C●m●une or Ius Iusticiae the Common Law which is conteyned in the letter of the Law or in the Customes of the Country and this in particular causes may somtimes be the cause of wrong as is often spoken Summa jus s●mma inj●ria 2. I●s Equitatis The Law of Equity when a particular case by reason of some circumstance desireth help and ease against the rigor of the Law such wa● Ius Pretorium amongst the Romans and the Court of Chancery with us in England In the Case where the stranger saved the City by mounting on the Walls and encouraged the Citizens to keepe the Town against the Enemy contrary to the Law Peregrinus in mures si ascenderi● Capitale e●t● the action in it selfe most honourable is by the letter of the Law Capitall Besides all these there is Ius Pr●rogativae which resteth wholly in them be they one or more in whom the Supreame power and Authority resteth Such have Princes in absolute Monarchies and such a Power had the people of Rome wh●n the State was Popular to receive appeals from any of their Judges to call matters determined by L●w to a new audience to suspend the ●xecution of any sentence or to pardon the punishment S●c● also hath been the accustomed power of the Parliaments of E●gl●nd The Law is nec●ssary for every State for that Leges fiunt p●opter bomines homines non fiunt p●opter L●ges Men a●e not made to satisfie the Law in its rigor but Lawes are made for the safety ●n● preservation of men Salus Populi suprema L●x C. D●e all N●●ions ●gree in their Lawes S. Noe. C. How then a● their Lawes to be discerned or known S. There are two Rules by which the Lawes and Custom●s of Countries are to be discerned 1. By the Law of Nature spoken of before by that light by which we kno what is right or wrong either in doing or suffering Altrine facias quod tibi factum nolis in this all good estates agree in the substance framing their positive Lawes against Atheisme Murther Adultery Theft c. Things in the light of Nature Condemned Nations also differ in the punishment and means of restraining which is not in Nature defined If any Law in a State be made
Common-wealth Viz. Valour and Bounty fit for a Souldier Wisdome and Justice for a Judge Frugality and honesty for an Officer of account C. What are the accidentall differences of States S. They are two 1. Good Bad. 2. Weak Strong C. How or in what respects are Common-wealths said to be Good or bad S. Three wayes 1. In respect of their good or bad Lawes so the Lacedemonian Respublick was thought wanting which by Lawes permitted Theft and Adultery 2. In respect of Good or Bad Magistrates so the Lacedemonian Respublike was holden the best in that the Magistrates most strictly observed the Lawes and Customes of their Countrey and the supposition of their State which was Aristocraticall and Military 3. In respect of both as all good Common-wealths whose Lawes agree with the Law of Nature and the Magistrates acting according to the Lawes C. Is the Law alwayes to be executed according to the letter of I S. No. fo it is neither safe that Law alone should rule which can not distinguish of times occasions nor actions Neither is it safe that Magistrates should rule alone Without Law for men are so subiect to hatred love fcare passion reward c. It is best where both have their place for that Law directeth best actions but discretion and true iudgement best distinguisheth circumstances C. How shall a man discerne the strength of a State S. By observing these three things 1. Whether it be strong in the frame it selfe of present Government so if Monarchy is held more strong and in lesse hazard of distraction and division then a popular state 2. Whether it be strong by continuance of time having long holden on forme so New Principalities are weak as wanting time to confirme them Auncient Principalities are strong where the peopl have been inured to reverence and obedince Monarchy could not have been taken from the Assyrians if Sardanapalus had not been a beast nor from the blood of the Cesars if Nero had not been rather a Monster then a Man 3. Whether it be strong only by vertue Wisdome and Valour ● of them which are in present Authority So only New Principalities have strength by them which raise them Such was the Gresian Monarchy which appeared in the world and vanished againe like lightning the strength whereof wholy consisted in Alexander and with his death perished C. What are the reall differences of Common-wealths and from whence have States their Denomination S. The reall difference of Common-wealths are taken from the different order in commanding and obeying the Name of every State is given according to the Supreame and highest Authority C. Wherein is the Supreame Authority manifested S. In these foure things 1. Potestas belli et pacis 2. Potestas vitae Necis 3. Po. faciendar ●egum 4. Po. Creandor magistrat By these foure powers States are determined in themselves and distinguished one from another In whom those four powers or most of them do rest whether in one some few or in many in them is the supreame Authority and they give the Name to the State If they be absolute in any the state of them is called an abfolute Monarchy or Aristocraty c. If they be partly in some and partly in others then the State is said to be a mixt Common-wealth According as these powers are diversly setled so States are really distinguished If those powers be in one person well used to the good of the people under him the State is called A Monarchy If in the person of one abused to the profit only of that one and of his who hath the Authority in his hands it s called A Tyranny If in some few well used to the common safety it is called An Aristocraty If in some few abused to the profit and pleasure of some few An Oligarchy If the fore said powers be in the multitude well used to the safety of all Law having power above the people i●s then called A good Democraty If in the multitude abused to faction and the setting up the basest of the people the multitude over-ruling Law A bad Democraty C. Which of these Governments do you esteem the best S. Heretofore most Historians were of the iudgement that regulated Monarchy was the best but the State of England as now it stands admits not such weak iudgements as mine to distinguish C. SIR I see you are silent in your thoughts I pray tell me what you account the worst S. The worst State is a Tyranny as being opposite to the best Bonum malum in suo genere maxime distant C. I have heard of an Anarchy I pray what government is that S. Anarchy is no State but a confusion of all order much worse then the worst Tyranny whi●h well appeared at Rome after the death of Nero when all men did what they list which caused an honourable Senator to say that if that misorder should continue they should have occasion to wish for Nero againe It is better living where nothing then where all things are lawfull C. I remember you told me that if the forementioned powers were in one person it was an absolute Mon●rchy by which I conceive there are severall kinds of Monarchies S. A Monarchy is the government of one to the preservation of all But Monarchies are of two sorts 1. Absolute where the chi●f doth rule all causes by his absolute Authority not any way determined by Law and the●e are good so farre as the Authority is well used and the cheif doth hold it Salus populi suprema L●x For government was before positive Lawes and in Nature there is absolute priority and power of the Father over his Children 2. Limited and that three manner of wayes 1. By Lawes a lore where the Subject may have lawfull audience and he●p in Law for holding or recovering his right against the Prince 2. By Overseers alone where there be Officers of Sta●e which may demand ●enson wh●n the cheif stretcheth his power ●o the d●triment of the Subject such have been the Electors in Germany 3. By Lawes and Overseers as in times past in France when the twelve peeres held their places and their Parliaments had their full power for the processe of Lawes Just Principalities are generally maintained by hould●ng the favour and love of the Subject Imperium est in voluntate obsequentium C. Wh●t meanes is a Governour to use to gaine the love and affection of his people and being gained how is it to be kept and preserved S. The peoples love is houlden by these meanes 1. By being Religious towards God for that men will never s●ek nor desire the overthrow of them whom they are perswaded to be gua●ded with divine pro●ection 2. By shewing Care of the pulike safe ty not of privat gaine men doe most willingly contribute when they are perswaded that money is either imployed or reserved for publick benefit 3. By building publick works and releiving publick misfortunes 4. By bestowing honours and rewards upon men of