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A94720 The female duel, or The ladies looking glass. Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Catholick lady, and the wife of a dignified person in the Church of England. Together with their joynt answer to an Anabaptists paper sent in defiance of them both: entitled the Dipper drowned. / Now published by Tho. Toll Gent. Toll, Thomas. 1661 (1661) Wing T1776A; Thomason E1813_2; ESTC R209780 171,193 328

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of those Legalities We find again in the last of St. Matthew Christ saying to his Disciples Go ye therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you Here Christ laid down an express form of Baptism in the name of the holy Trinity and yet the primitive Church did think fit to change that form into a Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ only for so St. Peter enjoyned them Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins c. And again we finde that the Samaritars were baptized by St. Philip in the name of Jesus Act. 2.38 Acts 8. Act. 19.5 Act. 15.28 29. So again upon St. Pauls preaching at Ephesus when they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Above all this we find the Scripture telling us that it was defined in the Apostles Councel thus It hath seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us c. that ye abstam from meats offered unto Idols and from blood and frous things strangled c. This we see is most plainly and expresly defined by the Apostles and as clearly attested by Scripture and yet the Church in after Ages hath thought fit to change that decree and permit Christians to eat strangled things and blood nay you that dispute against the Authority of the Church in matters of Faith are contented to submit to it in point of eating you could not otherwise deny the eating of a black pudding or strangled Hen to be a most notorions transgression nor could any thing excuse us from sin in so doing if the Church h●d not a power over the Scriptures And to conclude if the authority of the Church were not over the Scriptore then all Jews that should be converted now to the Faith of Christ and come to Baptism should be tyed still to the observation of Mases his Law for so we finde in Scripture that the Apostles themselves and others of th● Nation which became Converts did always do St. James and all the Elders said to St. Paul upon his return from the Gentiles Thou seest brother how many thousands of Jews there are which believe and they are all zealous for the Law and they are informed of thee that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses Saying Act. 21.18 20 21 22 23 24 25. that they ought not to circumcise their children neither to walk after the custums What is it therefore the multitude must needs come together for they will hear that thou art come Do therefore this that we say unto thee we have four men which have a vow on them Them take and purifie thy self with them and be at chrrges with them that they may shave their heads and all may know that those things whereof they were informed concerning thee are nothing but that thy self also walkest orderly and keepest the Law As touching the Geutiles which believe we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing save only that they keep themselves from things offered unto Idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornica●on Here it is plain that St. Paul with many thousands more did observe the Law of Moses and that by the immediate order of St. James the Prelate of the place and the Councel of all the Elders This we know clearly altered since by the authority of the Church and what a fine confusion it would produce if otherwise practised now I will leave your self to judge To the second I say that what you urge out of Deuteronomy makes no more against us then it does against the Apostles themselves from whence we received our Traditions but most especially St. Paul who expresly bids us to hold fast the Traditions which we have received Nay and all the holy Fathers of the Primitive Church who have always imbraced and held them Nay yet further you do most manifestly oppose and oppugne your own selves who receive the Tradition of Scripture the Lords day and many holy days with divers other things which you hold in great reverence by no other Authority If therefore we Catholicks offend in so doing then the Apostles themselves and all the Primitive Fathers and Christians and you your selves are as guilty of a fault if they be innocent and you too why should we be condemned Again give me leave to tell you that you have wholly mistaken the sense of that Text and that I will demonstrate to you out of the context which runs thus Deu 4.1.2 Now therefore hearken O Israel un-the Statutes and unto the Judgements which I teach you for to do them that ye may live and go in and possess the Land which the Lord God of your Fathers giveth you Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you neither shall you diminish ought from it that ye may keep the Commandments of the Lord your God which I command you As if he should say I give unto you precepts both Ceremonial and Judicial which ye ought perfectly and entirely to keep for so much is signified in those words ye shall not add nor diminish and this precept to that people is delivered though in other words yet to the very same sense in divers other places that they should be punctual in the observation of what was commanded them and not to swerve or turn to the right hand or the left So that these three things are upon the matter all one that is perfectly and intirely to keep Moses his precepts Deut. 17.20 Deut. 28.14 Deut. 31.29 Josu 1.7 not to turn from them neither to the right hand nor to the lest and last of all neither to add to nor diminish from their observation Which now is plain cannot be so understood as if it were unlawfull to add any new precept for then it had been utterly unlawful to add those new Evangelical precepts as Faith in the blessed Trinity the whole business of Holy Baptism and the Eucharist which you receive as well as we but the sense of those Texts must be plainly this that they ought to be very exact in the observation of Moses his Laws not to corrupt them with any addition or dimunition but to keep them intirely as for example this was a Mosaical precept Levit. 12.2 3. If a woman have conceived seed ann born a man child then she shal be unclean seven days c. And in the eighth day the flesh of his soreskin shall be circumcised c. To this precept now it was not lawful to add or diminish from that it was not lawful neither before nor after the eigth day to circumcise the child nor was the uncleanness of the mother to last more or less than seven days Now the same reason holds throughout all other precepts as I shall
that the sum of all the controversies that our English Schools have been wrangling and the Pulpits railing about this hundred years is here perfectly represented on both sides nor is it to be wondred at that women should arive to such a perfection in divinity in this age wherein all learning is almost become prostitute when above a thousand years ago we finde one of the curiousest peices of divinity written by Athenais who seemed to be that which the Poets feigned of Pallas she was bred in Paganisme better acquainted with the Theogony of Hesiod than the genealogy of Jesus Christ better skil'd in Homers Illiads then the books of the Gospel and better in the Apothegmes of Pythagoras then the commandments af God but she became afterwards so skilful in the Christian Law that she wrote in Homerick verses the principal Acts of Jesus Christ and even as the blessed Magdalen with the same hair wherewith she had weaved nets for wanton love did afterwards turn into a Towel to wipe the feet of our Saviour so she consecrated all the Graces of her wit and learning which she had before misimployed in vanities to the Trophy of Jesus Then as to the devotion of that sex I conceive it less questionable when women are right set none can go beyond them for that The Church hath always given to them the title of the devout sex Their blessing is in the dew of Heaven they resemble Bees which are born in hony or rather those birds of the fortunate Islands that breath no air but perfumes and are onely nourisht with incense they grow wholly Angelical insomuch as forgetting their sex and all their natural imperfections they furnish themselves with the most perfect Ideas of divinity and scarce retain any thing in them common with matter We find likewise that great priviledges and prerogatives are given to them by our Saviour for as the chast womb of a woman served him for a lodging at his first entrance into the world so when he was to issue out of it amongst so many horrors and terrible images of death when stones were rent in sunder for grief under his feet and heaven it self distended with sorrow over his head women also were found near to the Cross as witnesses of his last words and survivers of his bloud nay they were the first likewise that he would do the honour to appear to after his resurrection Now I must confess that the prejudicators of this piece and all the devotion and divinity of that sex carry with them a great deal of reason too for there is a sort of fisking Gossips who imagine devotion to he nothing but an ordinary practise of motions and gestures such as little puppets would make if annimated with a quantity of Quicksilver whilest the true virtues of devotion we know according to S. Thomas is nothing else but a prompt will to the service of God others there are of them whose devotion is altogether silken and very fine forsooth in all things so coy and curious they will be in the choice of persons that Sacraments themselves are good for nothing if they he not tyed to such and such hands where vanity seeks its interests nay forsooth their dovotion is such that they will plant their prettie petite pride upon the very hair cloth of Penance and if God would chastise such creatures to their liking he must be forced to tye up his rods with silk or else they will never receive correction from his hands Though they rise not till noon yet as if they feared the vapours of the serain they must be armed before they come out of their beds with restoratives from the Kitchin to keep their colours more fresh Then they will set themselves down to be cloathed with their Lookingglasses before them as if their fingers were too good to touch their own clothes and yet will be drest up like Idols and so adored too by their servants who are to stand about them admiring of their beauty which they have more ado too to preserve then the Vestals of Rome had to maintain the sacred fire one presents their Ladyships with white another with red this with some Serous that with some Fucus another attends the Looking-glass to hold it or remove it at their Ladyships pleasure whilest another stands behind to he the tell-clock but dares not tell their Ladyships that the hour of the Curch is ready to be past whilst their Ladyships are fastening on their Pennons Necklaces or Bracelets yet must the Canons of the Church be as easily broken as a glass to obey the humors of these women and the celebration begin when it is to be doubted whether the Sun begin not then to bend towards its setting prayers in the Church must be past over with making of some sowre faces and looking scornfully with a good grace with some slight ceremonies of devotion it may be which go no further neither then the outward parts There it is where resolutions are made of entertainments of time to be chosen for the next day then follow visits gaddings coachings dancings c. besides what passeth behind the Curtain their husbands in the mean time are very uncivil as they say if they give them not permission to do any thing and as it is said of the Moon that she never agrees in qualities with the Sun but when she hath ecclipsed him so they find no concord in marriage but in the diminution of their husbands authority These are the Lady-birds that will make their husbands sell a large patrimony to buy them a little Cabinet lay out thousands of pounds upon a rope of Pearl to wear about those necks that do better deserve a halter nay their very ears which they take a pride to shew little and slender yet they must have whole Lordships hanging upon them A man would say to see how they pamper their bodies that they were discended from heaven and that thither they intended to return without passing through the sepulchre so they deifie their flesh and to fatten and gild a dunghill covered with snow they sport with the blood and sweat of men what a sight it is to see these Ladies groan as at a torture under the weight and straightness of their garments and yet for all this will court and adore their own punishments He that will take the pains to examine well the furniture of them will think that they resemble those birds that have no body almost under a great deal of feathers then their apparrel is made rather to sell their bodies then to cover them I know not for my part what may be reserved for the eyes of their husbands when through all the streets and markets the secret parts of their wives bodies are exposed as open as if they were ready to be delivered over to the best bidders Then the cloaths they wear are so extravagant in their head dressings flying elbows great gorgets and farthinggals that the Church dores
are something hard to be understood which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other Scriptures unto their own destruction Thus do you see what unhappy mistakes there were upon St. Pauls writings while St. Paul himself was yet alive how much more then must there needs be now upon those grounds that you receive them Niy St. Paul himself tells you that if his Gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost Now it is plain it cannot be hidden to us who take the sense and interpretation of the whole Church you had best therefore look to your selves that you be not lost by hiding of it from your selves And if the blessed Fathers of the Church that were so conversant in Scripture yet understood it not in those times so near to the time of Christ himself as some of you say that they did not how can you presume upon your selves and some late Doctors that have dared to give you a contrary Doctrine to what they have delivered to us I have often meditared upon that place in St. Lukes Cospel where it is said of the good Samaritan that when he departed he took out two pence and gave them to the Host and said unto him take care of him and what ever thou spendest more when I come again I will repay thee Just so me thinks our Saviour hast left us two Testaments and whatsoever the Apostles Doctors and Fathers of the Church have added more and we shall humbly observe he when he comes again of his great goodness will repay us Now to summ up all it is plain by this that has been said that some Traditions of the Church must have equal authority with Scripture as the commands of a Prince have equal force and power upon Subjects whether by word of mouth delivered or by writing So the word of God written or delivered is still the word of God and of equal power And if you say that the Apostolical Tradition cannot be the word of God I ask you whether the other part of the Apostles that have left us nothing in writing were not as well inspired of the Holy Ghost as they that did you cannot sure deny it and they were too the greater part of the Twelve Now the Church of Christ still retains many things of their Doctrine thorgh we have none of their writing and sure we are to give as much credit to those that writ not as those that did I ask you again whether it be not a point of faith that the whole Scripture taken together of the Old and New Testament is the word of God and again whether all that Scripture especially in those things which concern Faith and Salvation be not most clear from corruption and again that we have the true genuine and legitimate sense of that Scripture is a point of faith too I believe you will not deny any one of these to be a point of your Faith I am sure they are all of mine so you must first acknowledge that I give as great an honour to Scripture as your self and then if we both admit those three positions as principles of Faith we must necessarily admit of Traditions for we have no Authority but that to justifie them and if we do not admit those for principles our Faith it self is wholly vain Then besides these three principles of Faith there are others also which we have only by Tradition as that the Symbol of our Faith is Canonical and Apostolical Then that Infants are to be baptized Then that those who are baptized by Hereticks are not to be re-baptized Then as is aforesaid that the blessed Mother of God alwayes remained a Virgin Then that in Baptism those words ought to be pronounced I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and that without them there can be no valid Baptisme Then that there is a certain and determinate number of Sacraments and what that number is All these things I say are not clearely to be found in Scripture but we must be beholding to the Authority of Tradition But last of all for Ecclesiastical Rites and Ceremonies it is manifest that we can have no other authority but Tradition and not Apostolicall for all those neither but some of them only from the Primitive Fathers that succeeded the Apostles in the Government of Christs Church and that sure it security enough for the practice and perswasion of any Christian for I have heard that a very ancient and most learned Father said that it was a piece of most insolent madnesse to dispute the doing of that which the Church of Christ throughout the whole world has always frequented and practised so 〈◊〉 you to it There were other wicked and idolatrous Kings as Abaz Manasses Amon and some others wicked though not idolaters but yet the use of the Divine Sacrifice and worship according to the Mosaical Law does appear still to have remained in the Temple of Solomon til the Babylonish captivity as is evident by several places of Scripture Then for the failing of the Synagogue in the time of Christ which you alledge it is not to be supposed that they failed from the true faith which was before profest but she with her ceremonies and Sacrifices was turned out of dores as was before typified in Abrahams bondwoman it does not therefore follow that the Church the true wife should be so too Then the Synagogue was therefore turned away because it was neither perfect nor sufficient to salvation Heb. 7.19 for so St. Paul tells us that the Law brought nothing to perfection and in that sense the ceremonies and Sacraments of the Synagogue are called by the same Apostle Gal. 4.9 weak and beggarly elements but now the Church of Christ is perfect and sufficient to salvation because it's Sacraments which are instituted by Christ carry with them a vertue of justification and taking away of sinnes the Sacrrments of the old Law only promised a Saviour but the Sacraments of the new give salvation Again the Synagogue contained only the shadow of future things as St. Paul speaks Heb. 10.1 Ioh. 1.9 but the Church contains the light it self which is Christ as St. Iohn assures us now the shadow must necessarily fly before the light the Synagogue therefore with the Mosaical Sacrifices ought to cease when the Church comes with Christ Last of all the Synagogue was instituted for servants the Church for sonnes now servants take wages of their masters for a time and so are dismist by their masters but sonnes succeed in the perpetual inheritance which the Apostles thus insinstates to the Galatians Gast out the bondwoman and her sonne Gal. 4.30 for the sonne of the bondwoman shall not be heire with the sonne of the free woman and so enough of difference I conceive is shewed between the Synagogue and the Church to shew you that the reason is not the same To