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A18981 The true ancient Roman Catholike Being an apology or counterproofe against Doctor Bishops Reproofe of the defence of the Reformed Catholike. The first part. Wherein the name of Catholikes is vindicated from popish abuse, and thence is shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome as now it is, is not the Catholike faith ... By Robert Abbot ... Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618. 1611 (1611) STC 54; ESTC S100548 363,303 424

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all that Christ taught and all that he commanded his Apostles to deliuer to all nations R. ABBOT THe wordes of mine answere are As they worshipped God so sauing ceremoniall obseruations we also worship him Consider now I pray thee gentle Reader from what braine M. Bishops illation proceedeth Then should we sacrifice to him Beefs Muttons Calues Lambs and our sacrificers should be of Aarons issue and order and we all circumcised Why M. Bishop are not all these in the number of ceremoniall obseruations Forsooth no I omit all their ceremonies saith he because M. Abbot excepteth them But did not M. Abbot in excepting all their ceremonies except circumcision and sacrifices and the whole Priest-hood of the law What is M. Bishop ignorant that circumcision and sacrifices and the whole rites and rules of the Leuiticall Priest-hood doe all belong to the ceremoniall law and that our Sauiour Christ in abrogating the ceremoniall law is vnderstood to haue abolished all these Is he to be set to schoole againe to learne what is meant by the name of ceremonies It were a shame to send a Doctor of Diuinity to his Catechisme for his credits sake I will referre him to a greater booke of Thomas Aquinas where he saith that a Tho. Aquin. sum 12. q. 101. art 4. Per tot In veteri lege singula praedicta Sacrificia Sacramenta sacra obseruantiae ceremoniae vocantur in the old law Sacrifices Sacraments sacred vtensils and implements and obseruances of singular or speciall conuersation are all called ceremonies and this I would haue him learne against the next time His next exception is against that I say As they prayed so and in the same wordes we also pray Then saith he they doe sometimes pray vnto God to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy on them as Moses did Which in part we acknowledge and professe to doe to pray God in like manner as Moses did to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy vpon the seede of Abraham but not to take mercy vpon vs. God bound himselfe to the seede of Abraham b Genes 17. 7. by an euerlasting couenant to be their God by reason whereof we beleeue that in this forlorne estate wherein they now be God still standeth entirely respectiue to the preseruation of that nation and though c Rom. 11. 28. as touching the Gospell they be enimies for our sakes yet as touching the election as the Apostle faith namely whereby God of old elected them to be his people they are beloued for their Fathers sakes Their present infidelity then is an interruption only not any finall reiection of them and the time will come when the effect of that loue will appeare by restoring that nation againe to the society and fellowship of the Church of Christ What hindereth then but as they are beloued for their Fathers sakes so we may pray God to remember their Fathers Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to shew his loue and to returne vnto them in mercy and compassion d 2. Cor. 3. 15 16. To take away the veile that is laid before their hearts that they may bee turned to the Lord Which notwithstanding we say not for our selues because God hath made no promise to vs properly and personally in Abraham but only e Genes 22. 18. 〈…〉 ls 3. 25. in the seede of Abraham f Gal. 3. 16. which is Iesus Christ by whom and in whom it is and not by Abraham himselfe that we are become the children of Abraham As for the text which he alleageth to proue that it was the expresse order and commandement of the Patriarchs that their posterity should so pray hee sheweth his ignorance in the abusing of it because no otherwise did Iacob say g Genes 48. 16. Vulg. Innocetur super cos nomen meam Let my name be named vpon them and the name of my Fathers Abraham and Isaac then as seuen women in a time of desolation are brought in by the Prophet saying to one man h Esa 4 1. Vulg. Innocetur nomen tuum super nos Let thy name be named vpon vs these women hereby crauing that they might be called the wines of such a man and the Patriarch desiring that Ephraim and Manasses should be seuerally reckoned for Tribes of the seed of Abraham and Israel as if they had beene immediately descended from him euen as Iacob himselfe a litle before expresseth his owne meaning saying i Genes 48. 5. Thy two sonnes Manasses and Ephraim which are borne vnto thee in the land of Aegypt before I came to thee into the land of Aegypt shall be mine as Ruben and Simeon are mine But now vpon this that hath beene said that they prayed God for those Fathers sakes to be mercifull to them M. Bishop being resolutely impudent to make all good that is starke naught groundeth a defence of a diuellish and horrible blasphemy which the Church of Rome had brought of old into the seruice of the Church Concerning Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury in the time of King Henry the second slaine then without due and lawfull proceeding but yet dying no other but an insolent rebell and traitour to his Prince they haue beene wont to pray thus k Breuiar in trāslat S. Thomae Cantuar. Jesu Christe per Thomae vulnera Quae nos ligant relaxa scelera Tu per Thomae sanguinem quem pro te impendit Fac nos Christe scandere quò Thomas ascedit O Iesus Christ by Thomas his wound Release the sinnes wherewith we are bound By the bloud of Thomas which for thee he did spend Make vs O Christ to climbe whither Thomas did ascend In which prayers wee see how by the wounds and bloud of this holy Saint of theirs they aske at Gods hands remission of sinnes and euerlasting life which Christian faith abhorreth to aske by any other but only the bloud of Iesus Christ Yea so harshly it soundeth in Christian eares and so contrary is it to the common sense of Christian profession as that the Rabbines of the Roman Synagogue were content euen for very shame to blot it out of their Portesse thereby acknowledging that it was by apostasie and errour that it came first in But M. Bishop a man more wise and learned or rather a man of harder fore-head then they were taketh vpon him to assure vs that there was nothing amisse in that praier and that it might very conueniently and lawfully haue beene retayned still And why Marry because of old time they prayed thus Remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and againe Lord remember Dauid and all his mildnesse For saith he if they did then desire God to remember the excellent vertues of his seruants and for their sakes to shew mercy vpon others why may not we doe the same now why may we not as well beseech God to remember the constant fortitude
amputatis quae superflua leuia falsa blasphema ridicula phantastica videbantur false blasphemous ridiculous n Pius 5. Offic. Beat. Mar. in Princip Huiusmodi ferè omnia officia vanis superstitionum erroribus reserta erroneous superstitious were brought into the seruice of the Church and o Li●dan apud Espenc vt supra Preces secretae mendis turpissimis conspurcatae the prayers thereof were filthily corrupted or when p Cor. Agripp de vanit scient cap. 17. Hodie tanta in Ecclesijs Musicae licentia est vt ●●●am vnà cum Missae ipsius Canone obscoenae quaeque cantiunculae interim in organis par●s vices habeant filthy songs had equall place or course with the Canon of the Masse And what will not M. Bishop say as all his fellowes doe that the Pastors and Doctors of all the Easterne parts haue gone astray will hee not acknowledge that all those Churches haue failed in faith What is become of the Church of Ephesus to which the Apostle wrote these words now in question What of the Church of Corinth of Colosse of Thessalonica and the rest If this the truth of the Apostles wordes reserued might befall to them what saith he for other Churches more then he doth for them If M. Bishop will say that the wordes haue some speciall reference to the Pastors and Doctors of the Church of Rome we hold him a most ridiculous man that taketh vpon him to see that which amongst so many ancient interpreters of the place neuer any man saw before him Once againe I say that Christ hath giuen Pastors and Doctors to his Church as of old q Ezech. 3. 17. 33. 7. he gaue watchmen to the house of Israel Hee hath prescribed them their office and duty and appointed the worke that they shall doe When they performe their duty faithfully and carefully they are the saluation of the people and bring many vnto glory But if they neglect their duty and leaue the worke of God vndone the people perish vnder them and they become guilty of their destruction And thus it befalleth often in the publike state of the Church euen to the ruine thereof that theeues and robbers thrust themselues or creepe by stealth into the places of Pastors who sometimes cannot sometimes will not teach and sometimes teach errour and lies in steede of truth whilest they measure their teaching by r Tit. 1. 11. filthy lucre and by ſ Rom. 16. 18. Thil. 3. 19. seruing their bellies in steede of seruing Iesus Christ The Apostle doth not say they cannot erre hee doth not say that the Church vnder them cannot faile in faith Only God amidst all ruines and desolations prouideth for his Elect and in the want and default of ordinary Pastors raiseth vp other spirits and vseth other meanes for the effecting of his good purpose concerning them so guiding them not as that they neuer erre in faith they erre often greeuously and are misled with the customes and superstitions of their times but so as that they neuer erre finally as touching any truth the knowledge and faith whereof hee hath made necessary to eternall life Now whereas M. Bishop concludeth out of the same place that the Church shall neuer be inuisible as which hath alwaies visible Pastors and Teachers hee therein sheweth his absurd loosenesse and carelesnesse of arguing because though the Apostle affirme Pastors and Teachers in the Church yet he doth not so much as intimate any way that they are alwaies visible What is there in the Apostles wordes whence hee should in any sort gather that there is a perpetuall visible state and succession of Pastors and Teachers Be it that there is a perpetuity of succession to be gathered from hence yet it doth not follow that there is a perpetuall visibility thereof It is enough here thus to reiect him as an idle Sophister and indeede not worthy of so much as the name of a Sophister that will bring a conclusion there where he hath no sl●ew of footing for it otherwise of the visibility or inuisibility of the Church I haue spoken sufficiently t Part. 3. Answere to Doct. Bishops Preface sect 17. and Cōfutat of his Answere to M. Perkins Aduertisement sect 6. otherwhere and it were too long to dispute here His next matter is a bare recitall of a text without any collection made therefrom imagining in his blinde vnderstanding that it is a plaine assertion of that that hee would proue by it Hee maketh St. Paul to say that Priests are chosen from among men and appointed for men in those things that appertaine to God that they may offer gifts and sacrifices for sinne Where it is first to bee noted how to serue his owne turne he falsifieth the Apostles text and readeth Priests are chosen from amongst men for that the Apostle saith Euery high Priest is chosen from amongst men By saying Priests hoe would extend the wordes as to be vnderstood of their Popish Priest-hood in the Gospell whereas the Apostle by naming a high Priest appropriateth his wordes to Aarons Priest-hood in the law For euen in the Popish Priest-hood there is no high Priest the power of sacrificing being indifferently common to them all and no more belonging to Popes and Bishops then to the meanest hedge-Priest or Curate in the world Seeing then the Apostle speaketh of a Priest-hood which admitteth a high Priest which the Popish Priest-hood doth not certaine it is that the wordes can haue no reference to Popish Priest-hood Therefore the Fathers vniuersally apply this text as the drift of the holy Ghost most plainly leadeth them to the Leuiticall Priest-hood only neither did they euer dreame of any Euangelicall Priest-hood intended herein Ambrose declareth the purpose of the Apostle to be this u Ambros in Heb. 5. Vt consueto Sacerdotū more qui in lege fuit ad altius id est Christi sacerdotium eos perd●ceret qui adhuc infirmi fuerūt propterea modum carnalis Pontificis introducit that by the accustomed manner of the Priests in the law he might bring them being weake to the higher or more excellent Priest-hood of Christ therefore saith hee doth hee bring in or set downe the manner or condition of the carnall high Priest Theodoret saith x Theodoret. ibid. Docēs quòd etiam in lege non Angelus vt pro hominibus sacerdotio fungatur electus est sed homo pro hominibus c. Haec dixit Apostolus non nobis Pontifi●atus regulas volens ostendere sed ad dicendum de Pontificatu Domini viam muniens He teacheth that euen in the law there was not an Angell chosen to execute the office of Priest-hood for men but a man was chosen for men and The Apostle saith he speaketh these things not to set downe rules of the high Priest-hood but to make way to the Priest-hood of Christ Wee see they both take the wordes as spoken of the Priests in the law
vpon the Rocke If then the Rocke bee the Roman Church and other Churches in the beginning were builded vpon it it must needes follow that the gates of hell should neuer haue preuailed against other Churches But they will not denie but that the gates of hell haue preuailed against other Churches Therefore the Rocke is not the Roman Church neither were other Churches in the beginning builded vpon it If he will haue the meaning to be that the gates of hell shall not preuaile against other Churches so long as they continue builded vpon the Roman Church he teacheth vs an exposition against himselfe that so long as the Roman Church continueth builded vpon the Rocke which is Christ Iesus so long the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it but no assurance haue we that it shall alwaies continue so builded vpon the Rocke But hee saith further that the Bishop of Rome li●●ally succeedeth vnto S. Peter Be it so and so did Caiaphas succeede lineally to Aaron yet did Caiaphas giue sentence against Christ Their owne law saith g Non sunt omnes filij Sanctorum qui te●ent loca Sanctorum sed qui exercent opera ●orum All are not the children of Saints that hold the places of Saints but they that practise the workes of Saints Yea but Christ prayed for Peter h Luke 22. 32. that his faith might not faile He did so but I aske then with Austin i Aug. quaest vet noui testam 75. Pro Petro rogabat pro lacobo Ioanne non r●gabat vt c●teros taceam Manifestum est in Petro omnes ●●tin●ri ● r●gans enim pro Petro pro omnibus r●gass● dignoscitur Did he pray for Peter and did he not pray for Iames and Iohn to say nothing of the rest It is manifest that in Peter they are all contained and praying for Peter he is knowen to pray for them all Of them all hee prayeth k Iohn 17. 11. 25. Holy Father keepe them in thy name I pray thee to keepe them from euill And what is the meanes whereby they are kept Euen the same that St. Peter expresseth when hee saith l 1. Pet. 1. 5. Yee are kept by the power of God through faith vnto saluation If through faith then Christ in praying to the Father to kee●● them is consequently vnderstood to pray that their faith may not faile through which they are kept Yea St. Austin maketh it common to all the elect that m August de corrept grat cap. 12. Pro his ergò interpellante Christo ne deficiat fides eorū sine dubio nō deficiet vsque in finem ac per hoc perseuerabit vsque in finem Christ prayeth for them that their faith may not falle and that by vertue of this prayer it doth neuer faile finally but perseuereth to the end If then Peter in this prayer haue no priuiledge aboue other then can nothing in this behalfe be deriued to other by priuiledge from him Albeit let it be admitted that Christ here meant a singular fauour to Peter what shall that be to the Pope What Art hath M. Bishop whereby to deriue the effect of Christs prayer from Peter to their Popes from an holy Apostle to a ranke and succession of men amongst whom there haue beene so many Atheists Infidels Idolaters Heretikes so many incarnate Diuels and hatefull Monsters of mankind This is a matter of great weight and we require some good authority and proofe for it that what Christ prayed for the Apostle Peter the same he hath prayed for the Pope also But in the proofe of this he faileth wholy neither can he any way perswade it vnlesse he meete with either simple or well-willing creditors who will bee content for payment to take counters in steede of gold And yet I would further aske him what faith it was whereof Christ prayed in the behalfe of Peter that the same might not faile Surely by St. Austins application formerly mentioned it appeareth that it was meant of that faith which is n T it 1. 1. the faith of Gods elect that iustifying and sauing faith whereby Peter should rise againe from his fall and should resist thenceforth the temptations of Satan and stand stedfast thereby vnto eternall life But M. Bishop will not deny but that many Popes there haue beene in whom this faith hath failed or rather in whom it neuer was many who haue beene reprobates and cast awaies and their end euerlasting death Of Sixtus the fift namely Bellarmine being asked what hee thought after his death answered as Watson in his Quodlibets reporteth o Wats Quodlibet Quantum capio quantum sapio quantum intelligo descendit ad infernum Qui sine poenitentia vi●it sine poenitentia moritur proculdubio descendit ad infernum So farre as I can conceiue or vnderstand he is gone downe to hell he that liueth and dieth without repentance goeth vndoubtedly to hell In him therefore and ma●● other such like the prayer of Christ did not take effect and therefore certaine it is that it did not appertaine vnto them If M. Bishop will needs vnderstand it that Christ praied for Peter that he might be free from errour in iudgement of faith then not to question whether Peter thenceforth committed any errour in iudgment it must needs be that the Pope cannot be subiect to errour in that behalfe But they themselues confesse that the Pope as a priuate man may erre that hee may be an Heretike and defend heresie only in his Consistoriall sentence and Pontificall decree hee cannot erre Was this then the intent of Christs prayer in the behalfe of Peter that howsoeuer he might otherwise be an Hypocrite or an Heretike yet when he should set himselfe down in his chaire to define any matter hee should bee like Balaam to blesse where hee meaneth to curse and like Caiaphas to prophesie without vnderstanding what he saith I dare appeale to M. Bishop himselfe if he be sober that this was not Christs meaning in respect of Peter If it were not thus meant of Peter and it can bee no otherwise deriued to the Pope but as it was meant of Peter then it must follow that because it can in no other meaning be fitted to the Pope therefore it can haue no reference to the Pope at all If hee bee so absurd as to say that it was so meant of Peter I will not stand to disproue a drunken mans dreame I only require proofe of that hee saith But because hee can deduce nothing out of the word of God he will make some flourish with some few sentences of the ancient Fathers And first hee beginneth with Ireneus who going in hand to auouch the true doctrine of faith by the testimony of the Churches which had receiued the same from the Apostles for auo●ding tediousnesse bringeth in steede of many other the Church of Rome being a very great and very ancient Church and knowen to all
of the carnall high Priest and Priest-hood and to make way to the treaty of the Priest-hood of Christ and therefore not to be vnderstood themselues of Christs Priest-hood either executed by himselfe or by him instituted if there were any such to bee executed by men But this appeareth more plainely by Chrysostome who saith that y Chrysost in Hebr. hom 8. Vult ostendere beatus Paulus quàm multò melius sit testamentum h●c quàm vetus the Apostle here goeth about to shew that the new Testament is much better then the old Where Theophylact saying the same addeth further z Theophyl in Heb. 5. Vult arguere nouum vetere Testamentum longè esse praestantius orditurque sacerdotalia munera ipsa conferre cum priscorum sacerdotum illorum tum Christi ostenditque maximum in modum excellere Christi sacerdotium Hee beginneth to compare the Priestly duties both of those old Priests and of Christ and sheweth that the Priest-hood of Christ doth most highly excell Oecumenius goeth yet further and particulateth the difference a Oecumen in Heb. 5. Vult hic osten lere nonum testamentum praestantius esse veteri hoc intcrim facit velut ind●cta à sacerdotibus comparatione quòd illud quidem homines habuit sacerdotes hoc autem Christum Hee goeth about to shew saith hee that the new Testament is more excellent then the old and this he doth by bringing in a comparison of the Priests that the old Testament hath men for Priests but the new hath Christ. Now if there be here an intention of a comparison betwixt the old Testament and the new and the wordes cited by M. Bishop belong to a part of the comparison to set forth the Priest-hood of the old then doth hee very absurdly apply them to an assertion of Priest-hood in the new and by taking away the distinction of the parts doth vtterly ouerthrow the whole comparison Yea and if one part of the difference betwixt the two Testaments consist in this as Oecumenius hence obserueth that in the old Testament men are Priests then more absurdly doth M. Bishop deale to force these words to the maintenance of their Popish Priesthood whereby men are Priests in the new Testament as well as in the old But there is yet further proofe that the wordes belong only to the Leuiticall Priest-hood in that he nameth it a Priest-hood appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices for sinnes there being herein implied another difference that in the old Testament the Priests offered gifts and sacrifices for sinnes but in the new Testament Christ our Priest offereth vp himselfe And this opposition Theophylact expresseth out of these wordes in question b Theophyl in Heb. 5. Qui Patrem conciliandi gratia seipsum obtulit a●ij verò alia quaeda donum videlicet sacrificium Christ saith he to reconcile vs to his Father offered vp himselfe but the other offered other things to wit gifts and sacrifices The same Primasius also setteth downe from the same wordes c Primas ibid. Quod dicit v● offeral dona sacrificia c. illi pro suis delictis offerebāt sacrificia boues scilicet arietes hircos caetera talia Chrislus ve●● seipsum They offered for their sinnes sacrifices of Oxen Rammes Goates and such like but Christ offered himselfe If the wordes then haue their vnderstanding of a Priest-hood offering other sacrifices then Christ offereth who hath offered vp himselfe and doe import an opposition betwixt the Priest-hood of Christ and the Iewish Priest-hood then can wee not here vnderstand M. Bishops Priest-hood wherein they take vpon them to offer the same that Christ offered euen Christ himselfe and to bee Priests of the same order as Christ is Here then wee see what conscience M. Bishop vseth in the allegation of this text for their Priest-hood and Sacrifice of the Masse when as it hath no affinity or agreement with it but goeth wholly another way Yea his iniquity and the iniquity of his fellowes in this behalfe is so much the greater in that it being the Apostles drift in this Epistle to exclude all Priesthood and Sacrifice for sinne saue only the personall Priesthood and sacrifice of Christ only they dare presume thus to wrest some sentences spoken by the way of the Iewish Priest-hood in the law as if they extended to another Massing Priest-hood to be continued in the Gospell But against this their deuised Priest-hood pretending daylie to sacrifice Christ when as it is no other but a meere blasphemy and derogation to the sacrifice of Christ wee are armed by that the Apostle telleth vs that d Heb. 7. 27. Christ needeth not daylie to offer vp sacrifice that e Heb. 9. 25. he is entred into heauen not to offer himselfe often because f Heb. 10. 14. by one offering hee hath made perfect for euer them that are sanctified hauing thereby purchased g Mat. 26. 28. remission of sinnes and h Heb. 10. 18. where remission of sinnes is there is no more offering for sinne The wordes are plaine euery eye may discerne them that because by Christs once offering there is remission of sinnes therefore there is now no more offering for sinne and therefore no Priest-hood for that vse Howsoeuer therefore vse and custome haue brought the name of Priest-hood into the language of the Church yet as touching the propriety and truth thereof wee say as before with Cyril i Cyril ad Neslor Epist 10. Nec praeter ipsum alteri cuipiam homini siue sacerdotij nomen siue rem ipsam ascribimus We ascribe not the name of Priest-hood or the thing it selfe to any other man saue to Christ and therefore doe wholly disclaime M. Bishops Priest-hood To which notwithstanding to get some further colour he falsifieth another text of the Apostle as if it had beene said Priests are Gods coadintours and helpers whereas the Apostle hath no name of Priests nor any intendement at all of such Priests as M. Bishop speaketh of but of Apostles Preachers and Ministers of the Gospell he saith k 1. Cor. 3. 9. Wee are Gods helpers or labourers togither with God Now who denieth this who saith that Preachers are only idle instruments as hee here obiecteth who doth not rather imagine that he is scant right that maketh motion of such a causelesse and idle quarrell But much more may wee thinke that his head stoode awry in his next conclusion That St. Pauld and Timothy did saue other men and therefore it is no blasphemy to pray to Saints to helpe and saue vs. For tell vs M. Bishop doe not you tell your Disciples that the end of your calling and trauell is to saue soules Doe not you beare them in hand that to saue them you aduenture the losse of your owne liues And what because you in your opinion doe saue them must all men in your opinion also make prayers to you to helpe and saue