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A70556 A briefe or generall reply, unto Mr. Knuttons answers unto the VII. questions, about the controversie betwen the Church of England, and the separatist and anabaptist briefly discussed. By John Mabbatt. Mabbatt, John. 1645 (1645) Wing M112; ESTC R223722 35,933 39

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of all God gave the land to all the tribes of Israel except them but to the Levites your brethren I give none he shall have the Tenth of all and live of the sacrifice Deut. 10.9 10. and from his right in all he disposeth the tenth to them And God hath declared only his taking the right of the Tythe for a time only in that incorporation as the Truth affirmes so long as they serve the Tabernacle Num. 18.21 but saith he the same right descended to the Ministers of the Gospel but he is too short to bring any Word for it and this was denyed before But he brings in this lame Argument which cannot goe upon all foure nor upon two thus so Tythes were due to the Leviticall Ministers as Ministers not as Leviticall and so are successively due to Evangelicall Pastors as Pastors not formally as Evangelicall by way of Reply thus the Levites by the Offerings and Sacrifices of the Tabernacle to which they served were maintained but when the Offerings and Sacrifices of the Tabernacle ceased the maintenance of them as Ministers must be at an end Numb 18.21.31 there is no Law of right reason nor Proofs of Scripture to maintaine them as Ministers longer but approve to the contrary Heb. 13.10 Againe it was not Leavies simply as Levites did accomplish the Service of the Tabernacle but as they were Levites ministring and Leviticall Ministers that received it as the wages of their worke Num. 18.31 so saith hee are successively due to Evangelicall Pastors as Pastors not formally as Evangelicall and thus it seems he would imply a Minister to be maintained and maintenances due to them neither doing the service of the Law nor the Gospel not Levitically as serving in the Tabernacle nor Evangelically as preaching the Gospel was ever any such thing as this affirmed under the Law or spoken for in the Gospel in the least allowance of such a thing the Law was against it it was the Priests portion for his service Psal 16.4 the Apostle reprehends it Phillip 3.18 19. But his Argument would joyn a Pastor or Minister in name and maintenance by meanes in the substance together and so would contradict the wisdome of the Parliament who seeing this evill by Order declare putting it downe as in all Non-residences plurality dumb-dogges so far as God hath given them light to part of that he will have them strip the false and Anti-Christian Ministery of till God hath made her desolate and naked and because his Argument is lame and cannot stand I need not stand long to prove it to halt or not to goe Ob. It was the custome of Gods Church in all ages to pay Tythes to the Lord before the Law was written Abraham paid Tythe of all Gen. 14.20 therefore Tythes are Marrall. A. It is denied it cannot be proved to be the custome of the Church of God in all Ages before the Law to pay Tythes First this doth not prove it to instance only Abraham in his Age. 2. And that in Abraham for a Custome doth not prove it being done but once by Abraham in all his life as we can read of and to prove the morrality of Tythes being before the Law he might as well goe about to prove the same of Circumcision and of burnt-offering that these were all morrall and perpetuall as well as Tythes and plead for them to be which were before the Law as well as Tythes and observed by Abraham And for that he saith of Jacob he saith nothing to prove it for it cannot be proved that Jacob paid Tythes at all in any place and for his bringing in of Jacob now is nothing to the purpose F. Further he saith Tythes were due were paid to Milchizedech by Abraham R. This Argument hath two parts in it First Tythes were due and in this he hath recourse unto what he had said before of Jacob of whom he conceived it was Jacobs opinion that Tythes was to be paid because Jacob vowed so to doe it in which saith hee Jacob sinned against God if he did not know it pleased God that he would vow such a thing but in asmuch as he finds that Jacob did it not here he leaves him under the first charge of a rash Vow and secondly of never observing that Mr. Knutton saith was a Morrall thing by him to be observed and therefore saith he in this fourth Reason that hee might sinne yet to say something because Tythes were due and so as from Jacob here is a morrall due as if he should say but not Morrally kept ergo not so morrall in Jacobs judgement to Action Second part of the Reason and were paid to Milchizedech by Abraham here it 's paid but not as due morrall and perpetuall the dues was minded in referrence unto Jacob but paid only by Abraham to Milchizedech not in the dues morrall that part of the Reason had referrence unto Jacob and that was in referrence to opinion and not for action Ob. But Abraham paid it to Milchizedech and so Tythes ought to be paid to Christ else Christ should faile in something to be as Milchizedech was A. And so should Christ doe except only Abraham should pay it him Ob. Now Tythes being due to Christ must be paid to his servants the Ministers of the Gospel A. How doth this hold in Christ answering Milchizedech was the Tythes payed by Abraham to Milchizedech transferred by Milchizedech from him to his servants or Ministers of his there was no such thing mentioned of Milchizedech nor could be for the Priesthood nor the rights of it could not be transferred to any other if it could have been hee could not properly have been the Type of Christ his Antitipe for Christ who is the Antitipe of Milchizedech his Priesthood and the rights of it are not nor cannot be transferred over to any other Heb. 5.10 Heb. 7.24 Concerning Tythes observe these particulars 1. That Tythes Tipe or signe out to the Levites that God was their portion in Israel Num. 18.20 21.24 Josh 13.14.33 Deu. 10.8 9. 2. That it was injoyned for the Saints of the Temple and Tabernacle Num. 18.21 Heb. 7.5 3. Untill the time of Reformation Heb. 9.10 4. That this was only to continue in the Generation of the Levites till all Sacrifices and Offerings for sinne by them in the Temple and Tabernacle was put to an end by the comming of that Tabernacle pitch'd by God and not man which was Jesus Christ putting all the former Sacrifices to an end by the sacrifices of Himself the only Sacrifice for sinne Numb 18.23 24. Heb. 9.11 Heb. 10.8.9.10.11 12. Tythes not Morrall nor perpetuall and now under the Gospel not to be paid nor taken for these Reasons 1. Be cause it calls for the setting up of the Jewish Temple Tabernacle and Altar 2. Because it calls for the Priest-hood of Aaron and the Levites in their former Office to Serve 3. Because it layes a yoke of bondage upon him that paies Tythes
and upon him that takes Tythes which the Gospel sets at liberty from 1. To pay Tythes is to be bound to the whole law of Tythes in which was a Lambe to be brought for a sinne-offering which is abolished 2. He that was to take Tythes was one who offered daily sacrifice for sinne which if any doe so now he denies Christ come in the flesh and the alone sacrifice for sin by his death A word or two to that appertaines to the Gospel Ministers and the maintenance of them in that the Gospel holds out to us 1. Concerning the Lords ordaining that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel that the Word of God holds out to us in the time of the Gospel by his Worke he is to be a preacher of the Gospel 2 Cor. 9.14 Secondly the Word holds out to us the nature or quallity of this worke that it is in one preaching the Gospel chosen in the Church to this worke is to labour in the Word and Doctrine 1 Tim. 5.17 the Word requires of him that it may be so these things in diligence labour 1. Attending upon the work Rom. 12.7 8. 2. Herein he is to give attendance to reading of the Scriptures 1 Tim. 4.13 2 Tim. 3.16 3. Which study to shew himselfe approved unto God a workman that need not to be ashamed deviding the Word of God aright 2 Tim. 2.15 4. He must hold fast the true pattern of wholsome words 2 Tim. 1.13 Tit. 1.9 5. He must be apt to teach 1 Tim. 3.2 2 Tim. 2.24 6. Hearkning to the Exhortation of Christ by his Word to this Worke through the Spirit fulfilling obedience to the exhortation from the same Spirit dwelling within them 2 Tim. 1.14 7. Laboriously finishing this worke of preaching the Gospel watching thereunto 2 Tim. 4.2.5 And as these seven particulars are considerable to lie in the worke of the Ministery in preaching the Gospel so there is these foure or five properties the Word requires of those will take upon them this Work and undergoe it 1. Willingly not by constraint nor for silthy Lucre but of a ready mind in a simple freenesse to serve the Church the folk of Christ 1 Pet. 5.2 2. A high esteem of the Worke in preaching the Gospel counting it in it self that they have a precious reward in being imployed in the Worke it self 1 Tim. 1.12 1 Cor. 9.17 18. 3. Contentednesse of mind notwithstanding the want of any outward thing to supply them for this their work 1 Tim. 6.6 1 Cor. 4.11 12 13. Ephes 4.11 12. 4. Free and willing subjection to suffer any thing for the Church in the Cause of Christ Act. 20.22 23 24. Act. 21.13 Coloss 1.24 5. And all this freenesse of will to the worke and undergoing and accomplishing of it to be from no other principle or power then by Jesus Christ alone Phil. 4.13 Gal. 1.11 12. John 15.5 Rom. 15.18 Further in reference unto those that are to give the maintenance unto those that preach the Gospel are considerable in these particulars 1. Is to acknowledge that God hath ordained that those that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel 1 Cor. 19.14 1 Thes 5.12 2. That the maintenance is there to be given and communicated in that Church wherein the Minister labours in preaching the Gospel 1 Thes 5.12 now when he that labours in the Gospel the Church is thus united as he is over them their Pastor they the flock the Word requires 1. That they should have them in singular love for the Work sake 1 Thess 5.13 2. Such alone as highly esteem of them Phil. 2.29 Isai 52.17 Nahum 1.15 Rom. 10.15 2 Cor. 8.24 3. So as they count them worthy of double honour Tim. 5.17 4. Such alone as is fruitfull in giving and communicating of all needfull yea bountifull supply unto them according to their abilitie Phil. 4.14 15 16 17 18. 2 Cor. 18.1 2 3 4 5 6. 2 Cor. 9.5.13 5. And which is not the least discovery of the true love unto the Pastors preaching the Gospel to receive their ministery in all love attending and hearkning unto their Ministery they have received of the Lord and Minister unto them which is one of the chefest fruits the true Pastor will rejoyce and take pleasure in amongst his flock in the Lord. 2 Cor. 7.2 1 Pet. 2.2 Heb. 13.17 Rom. 1.8 10.11 12. Phil. 4.1 1 Thess 2.13.19 20. the third Epist of John vers 3 4. And with this they both pray for them and praise God for them Heb. 13.18 Gal. 1.22 23. Two particulars concerning the Pastor in reference to his maintenance 1. To be contented with the free Contribution of the Church under the exhortation of the Word 2 Cor. 9.6 Phil. 4.12 2. The place where he is to receive his maintenance is of the Church by whom he is freely chosen and elected in Ordination over them labouring in the Word and Doctrine Act. 20.28 Gal. 6.6 1 Thess 5.12 13. Phil. 4.15 Act. 14.23 QVESTION IIII. ¶ Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or not F. I Affirme it is as true right Lawfull and fit Baptisme and ought to be used in a Christian Church professing Gods Truth R. Baptisme of Infants is not true Baptisme the Reason is because true Baptisme hath the truth of Christ witnesseth it to be true Baptisme but the truth of Christ witnesseth not that the Baptisme of Infants is true Baptisme Act. 10.47.48 Act. 11.17.18 Act. 8.12 2 Reas Is not right and lawfull Baptisme because right and lawfull Baptisme according to Christs Institution is to Teach and Baptise but Infants are not capable of being taught therefore not to be Baptized Matt. 18 19. Mar. 16.15.16 3. That Baptisme that the truth of Christ testifies not to be his Baptisme and is such that is not right and lawfull from the institution is not fit but unsuitable any such thing should be observed by any Church professing the truth of Christ Col. 2.5 6. Ephes 4.21 2 Cor. 13.8 Ob. F. Because there is the same Analogy of reason of Baptisme as of Circumcision the same internall and spirituall thing signifie Remission of sinnes and Mortification of the flesh A.R. It is denied there is not the same Analogy of reason of Circumcision as is of Baptisme for they differ in the Institution in their subject and in the Covenant to which either did appertaine As may be seen for Circumcision God Institutes it in Gen. 17.8 9. God saith to Abraham I will give thee and thy seed after thee the Land even all the Land of Canaan for an everlasting possession and I will be their God upon this God enjoynes him and his seed to keep his Covenant what that is is laid downe in the 10.11.12 13.14 verses of the same Chapter following in signe and obligation to which they were to be Circumcised thus in the institution of Circumcision here is the ground laid down God makes it with Abraham and
thing injoyned for the service of the Tabernacle and Temple only untill the time of Reformation R. But Tythes was a Jewish Ceremony and a carnall Tipe of an holy thing enjoyned for the Service of the Tabernacle and Temple only untill the time of Reformation 1. Tythes Tipe out to the Levites that God was their portion in Israel Num. 18.20.21.24 Josh 13.14.33 2. It was enjoyned for the service of the Tabernacle and Temple this yee shall have for your service in the Tabernacle Numb 18.21 Heb. 7.5 3. Untill the time of the Reformation Heb. 9 10. Ob. Now to say Tithes were instituted to signifie something for a time as all other Ceremonies were is not true A. But to say of Tythes is truth as thus Tythes Type or signifie out God to be the portion of the Levites from the rest of their brethren in Israel only in their Generation and that till all their service in the Tabernacle and waiting upon the Aaltar in offering sacrifices for sinne offered up by them were put to an end by the alone and only sacrifice for sinne by the death of Christ this is truth Num. 18.23 24. Heb. 10.8 9 10 11 12. Ob. Tythes are Morrall and so perpetuall 1 Cor. 9.13.14 A. It is denied Tyths are not morrall nor perpetuall and for that Proof 1 Cor. 9.13.14 will prove no such thing and he might as well say the Priesthood of Aaron is morrall and perpetuall and aledge as good proof to prove it as here he brings to prove the morality of Tythes in Heb. 5.4.5 and this he will not undertake to maintaine except hee will be Jewish perpetually and everlastingly Heb. 7.11.16.18 but let us consider the Text he aledgeth 1 Cor. 9.13.14 1. The 13. Vers Doe ye not know that they which Minister about the holy things eate of the things of the Temple and they that waite at the Aaltar are partakers with the Aaltar This verse will not prove Tithes to be morrall and so perpetuall not morrall thus because the things of the Temple cannot be eaten no longer then there be them that Minister about the holy things of the Temple 2. Neither can there be any partaker of the Aaltar no longer then they wait upon the Aaltar 3. It cannot be denyed but that the Temple Ministery and the Aaltar waiting and the eating of the Sacrifice and pertaking of the Altar are all abollished the whole 9. Chapter Heb. 1 2 3. testify Heb. 10.9 the morallity of Tythes in this verse is flatly denyed and to fall with the Ministery Service and sacrifice of that Temple and Altar 14. Vers What will that say to prove the morallity of Tithes from this verse is no mention of Tithes much lesse any thing for the morallity of Tithes the words of the Verse is So hath God ordained that they that Preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel that is saith Mr. Knutton by Tythes and because the Apostle doth not not say so with him hee chargeth the Apostles argument to be lame His speech impertinent wherein Mr. Knutton is in one if not both these offences First if he did not understand the Apostles mind he should not have so charged him 2. Seing the Apostles words would not serve for his purpose he should not have wrested them from the Apostles mind but consider the words in the Verses so hath God ordained that they that Preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel these words deny this thing morrally to have appertained to those that served under the Law and so not morrall for it is peculiar to those that preach the Gospel and it allows it not morrall to the Levites before them as the Tythes of the Levites not theirs and so not morrall perpetuall Not Morrall for if it had been morrall and perpetuall then the Churches should have given it to the Apostles and they have declared it to them so to be and to have refused it they should not but have taken it except they would part with what was morrally their right but the Apostles knew they were not to require any thing as morrally in the Tything under the Levites and hee speaks plainly that was theirs was properly theirs as they preached the Gospel which the Levites under the Law had no part in it Heb. 13.10 and that which was the Levites was theirs as they served in the The Tabernacle and the more freer the Gospel is in dispensation the more like it self it is and he that weigheth taking least in the free dispensation of the Gospel holds forth the Gospel in the greatest freenesse Mat. 10.8 1 Cor. 9.18 Ob. Tythes are Morrall for the Heathen who by the light of nature judge by the light of Nature Tythes were to be paid to the Gods that they worshipped A. Such a thing as this to have been drawn from the Heathen pertaining to their worship to be observed by Israel unto the true God was an abomination in Israel and forbidden by God himself Ex●d 23.13 you shall not observe other Nations to Worship me as they doe their Idolls and we under the Gospel are exhorted ●o keep our selves from Idolls 1 Joh. 5.21 and as the Apostle saith an Idoll is nothing neither is any thing offered to them any thing 1 Cor. 10.19 20. Ob. Tythes were the Lords right long before the Law was given therefore Tythes are Morrall A. Was Tythes only the Lords right whose was all the the substance besides not only Tythes but all was Gods as in Psal 50.10 If I need any thing I will tell thee the Cattell on a Thousand hills are mine And as the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.26 The earth is the Lords and the fulnesse thereof how argues this the morrallity of Tythes before the Law was given if hee meanes they were Gods in a morrall right so was all the substance in all the world if he mean so God gives not the whole nor it in any part unto any Creature this Right his it is and he is the Soveraigne Lord to dispose of his own as he pleaseth and he never gave Tythes in the morrallity of the right of them thus unto the Leviticall Priesthood of Aaron the Levites for he did enjoyne and command them to offer up the Tythe of the Tythe received of the people in sacrifice unto the Lord and this they were to doe so long as they received Tythes in the Leviticall Priesthood and that in a stricter manner in what they offered of that then that of the offering of the people of that they might eat but not eate of that offered for themselves Numb 18.26 27 28. Levit. 6.23 F. He saith all that which concerning Tythes was instituted in the Law was that Tythes should be assigned unto the Levites so long as they should serve the Tabernacle And though God gave the Tythes to the Levites yet saith hee he did not found them in that incorporation R. Neither did God first found his right in the Tenths as the Tythe but in his right