Selected quad for the lemma: land_n
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A56311
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A reply made by Mr. Thomas Pury, alderman of Glovcester, unto two gentlemen of the long robe and two knights of the Hovse of Commons touching episcopacy and den̂es [sic] and chapters : at a committee of the whole Hovse.
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Pury, Thomas, ca. 1590-1666.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing P4246; ESTC R28465
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3,953
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11
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afterwards estrated into his Majesties Exchequer But upon the Writ of Extent issuing out thereupon his Majestie as I have heard received no benefit of any such Lands wherof the Corporation was seized for the maintainance of any Hospitalls Bridges or other charitable uses or ought to have done as I conceive Seeing therefore the said Deanes and Chapters are but Trustees and the profits of the said Lands so ill imployed by them contrary to the trust reposed in them I am cleare of opinion that by a Legislative power in Parliament it is fit to take them away and to put them into the hands of Feoffees to be disposed of to such pious riligious and charitable uses as they were first intended But it was said by a worthy Knight That hee should be unwilling to take away their Lands and Possessions untill he first knew how they should be disposed of and how the persons who were many thousands in this Kingdome as he said that would want bread should be provided for Certainely Mr. Hide although that is not the worke at this time yet I account it no difficulty to satisfie that worthy Knight for I finde upon the survay of the Lands of the said Deanery of Gloucester that it hath above twelve Rectoryes of good value about thirty Vicaredges Pentions and Portions of Tithes which being at the first Deo consecraota most fit they should be still imployed for the maintenance of the Gospell and therefore if those Deanes and Prebends being but seaven in all to be now taken away will be Preaching Ministers there is I hope sufficient maintenance for so many of them as have not too much besides and yet to reserve as large a Salary as now they have for so many singing men there in holy Orders that cannot Preach And then there are left to be provided for but the Organist eight Singing boyes two Schoole-Masters foure poore Almesmen and some under-Officers whose yearely wages comes unto about one hundred pound per annum and the said Deane and Chapter have almost the third part of the houses of the City of Gloucester the old rent of them being yearly about 175. pound which will well defray that charge with a sufficient Surplusage for repairing the highwayes Bridges and twenty pound yearely to the poore as aforesaid But over and besides the said yearely revenewes before mentioned the said Deane and Chapter of Gloucester although but of the last Foundation and one of the least revenewes in this Kingdome yet they have eighteene goodly Mannors and also divers other Lands Tenements and Hereditaments besides the Mannors houses and premises the old rent of Assize of one of the said Mannors being 80. pound per annum out of which Mannors and Lands the said Cathedrall being to be made a Perochicall Church 200. pound per annum or more may be allowed for a learned Preaching Minister there and a hundred pound a yeare apeice for two such others to assist him with in few yeares one of the said Mannors will discharge and also smfficiently repaire the said Cathedrall Church and then the rest of the said Mannors and Lands may be imployed to other godly pious or charitable uses as the Wisedome of the King and Parliament shall thinke fit and sutable to this but in a more ample proportion of maintenance will be the allowances of all other Deaneryes in England Againe this I conceive will answer another Objection raised by a worthy Knight at the Bar touching the poverty of the Clergy of England if this Bill should take effect surely my opinion is quite contrary and to that purpose I call to minde the saying of a learned Divine Chaplaine to a Noble man upon some conference with him of our wished desire to remove scanlous Ministers and to reduce the Impropriations of Bishops and Deanes and Chapters to a Preaching Ministry if these things said hee take effect the Universities will not be able to supply the Churches And surely Sir if these things take effect I am confident we shall be so farre from having a poore beggerly Clergy as that no Kingdome in the Christian world will have a more rich and flourishing Clergy both for Nurseries and incouragements of Learning and for their maintenance in more plentifull manner than it is at this present Please you therefore to put the Question I am ready to give my ade thereunto FINIS
A REPLY MADE BY MR. THOMAS PVRY ALDERMAN OF GLOVCESTER UNTO Two Gentlemen of the long Robe And two Worthy Knights of the HOVSE of COMMONS touching Episcopacy and DEANES and CHAPTERS at a Committee of the whole HOVSE Printed in the yeare 1641. A REPLY MADE BY MR. THOMAS PVRY Alderman of GLOVCESTER unto Two Gentlemen of the Long Robe and two worthy Knights of the HOVSE of COMMONS touching Episcopacy and Deanes and Chapters at a Committee of the whole HOVSE Mr. HIDE I Rise not up to Answer the Arguments of the Learned Gentleman of the long robe that spake last the which were to prove some Incoherence of the Preamble with the body of the Bill concerning the abolishing of Deanes and Chapters in respect of their government in the Church of England who have none at all as hath beene argued but there are some Reasons sticke with me whereby I doe conceive that the Deanes and Chapters have beene and are part of the Government of the Church of England and that the preamble and body of this Bill therein may very well stand together for if you take the Deanes and Chapters in their Originall who as it was said by a Learned Sergeant over against me were first founded in superstition alike to your Regular and Secular Monkes or if you consider them as in their prime institution to be Consilium Epis to assist Bishops in their Government and Discipline or if you looke upon those Deanes and Chapters of the last Foundation by Henry the eight yet certainely they are in all these capacities a part of the government of the Church of England and as well the Rurall as the Cathedrall Deanes are numbred by our owne Writers among Church Governors and they are in and among themselves a part of the Church Government and by the Booke of Reformation of Ecclesiasticall Lawes they are to governe themselves according to their Statutes of Foundation and to keepe them pure and entire so farre as they are not repugnant to the Word of God and our Constitutions of Religion And for the better Satisfaction of this Committee and my selfe here is a Copy of the Statutes Grant and Foundation of the Deane and Chapter of the city of Gloucester I have read them over and doe finde First the end wherefore the Lands and Possessions were granted unto them Secondly the manner and forme of Government of themselves And lastly their severall Oathes to keepe all the Statutes prescribed unto them And because of my weake memory please you to give me leave to reade the words in the Kings Grant Englished thus Wee have erected and constituted Cathedralls Colledges in the place of Monasteries to the end that where Ignorance and Superstition did raigne there the sinceere Worship of God should flourish and the holy Gospell of Christ Iesus should be dayly and purely Preached And further that the increase of the Christian Faith and Piety the Instruction of youth in good learning and the sustentation of the poore should be forever there kept maintained continued and the said Deane Prebends Cannons and all other persons belonging to the said Cathedralls and Colledges are to be governed and ruled according to the Statutes prescribed unto them Sir the Statutes are many I will in briefe tell you the substance of some few af them The said Deane Prebends and Canons are alwayes to reside and dwell in the houses of the said Cathedralls and there to keep a Family good hospitality to feede the poore and to distribute Almes unto the needy to be carefull to Preach the Word of God In season and out of season and to sow the seede of the Word of God abroad but especially in the said Cathedrall Church and to have youth profitable taught there And to the end that they may all serve God as well at meales as in the Church they are to have a common Table in the common Hall of the said Cathedrall where the said Cannons Schollers Quiresters and under-Officers are appointed to eate together and the said Deane and Chapter are to give yearely twenty pound to the poore beside their owne poore Almsmen and twenty pound more yearely towards the repairing of Bridges and High-wayes thereabouts Sir for the performance of the said Statutes and premises The said Deane Prebends Canons and Ministers of the said Cathedrall doe or ought respectively to take an Oath and thereby in expresse words do call God to witnesse and doe sweare upon the holy Evangelists to rule governe and behave themselves well and faithfully in the said Church according to the Will and Statutes of the Founder and every one of them doe sweare that he will to his utmost power well and faithfully keepe all and singular the said Ordinances Statutes as much as concernes himselfe and will procure all others as much as concernes them to keepe the same inviolablely So helpe him God and these holy Gospels of God Mr. HIDE You see wherefore the Lands were granted unto Deanes and Chapters what their Statutes are and their Oathes to keepe them It might be thought that these men doe know no way another or nearer way to heaven than they teach us or otherwise that they would not sit in the seate of Perjury as it may seeme they doe without remorse of conscience For it is notoriously knowne to the city of Gloucester and country there abouts That not one of the said Statutes before mentioned are or ever were during my remembrance kept or the matters contained in any of them performed by any of the Deanes or Prebends of the said Cathedrall They come indeede once a yeare to receive the Rents and Profits of the said Lands but doe not destribute unto the poore and needy their portion neglecting altogether the mending of the Highwayes and Bridges and doe not keepe any common Table at all and in stead of Preaching the Word of God themselves In season and out of season they are and have beene the chiefe instruments to hinder the same in others Infinite are the Pressure that many Cities neare unto Deanes and Chapters have endured by them and their procurement And whereas it was objected by another learned Gentleman of the long robe That the Deanes and Chapters are a body corporate and that they have as much right unto their Lay possessions as any other body politicke or any City or Towne Corporate I am of his opinion for such Lands and Possessions if they have any which they bought themselves in right of their corporation or for such Lands as were given them for their owne use and I am well contented that such Lands should be left unto them but their case is farre different in my opinion for I have shewed you before to what godly pious and charitable uses the said Lands and possessions were granted unto them And sutable thereunto you may call to minde the Londoners Case about Londonderry in the Starrechamber where they were fyned 70000. pound to his Majestie and the same