ask him what sort of Law he takes the above-cited Statutes of Ireland to be and shall afterwards shew that they have all along submitted to such a Conquest or Acquisition as gives a Right to the imposing of Laws 3. But since he is pleas'd to say As Scotland tho the King's Subjects claims an exemption from all Laws but what they assent to in Parliament so we think this our Right also and going upon the supposition of Ireland being a Kingdom as distinct from England as Scotland he frames an Objection that however they may be restrain'd by War from doing what may be to the prejudice of England the stronger Nation If this may be he asks why does it not operate in the same manner between England and Scotland and consequently in like manner draw after it England's binding Scotland by their Laws at Westminster As to Scotland not here to enter into the Dispute between the Lord Coke and the rest of the Judges who resolv'd Calvin's Case and the House of Commons of that time nor yet into the Question concerning the Scotch Homage whether 't was for the Kingdom of Scotland or only for some Lands which their Kings held of the Crown of England 'T is enough to observe that during the Heptarchy here we often had one King who was Rex primus to whom the others were Homagers and obedient in the Wars for common Defence of the Island yet each King had his distinct Regalities and the Countrys their several Laws and Customs and distinct Legislatures for Lands and other Rights and Things within themselves This 't was easy to conceive that Scotland had and thus both there and here under the Heptarchy the several Kingdoms notwithstanding Homage to one King who had the Primacy were under separate Allegiances as the respective Subjects were not bound to the same Laws tho the States of the Kingdom did Homage as well as the King When the Right to the Crown of Scotland came afterwards in J. 1. to be in the same Person who had the Crown of England and that without any new Acquisition by the Crown or Kingdom of England there was no merger of the less Crown and 't is certain that in the Judgment of Law Palatinates fallen to the Crown continue distinct Royalties But if for the keeping a Kingdom distinct whether in the Person of the same King or as an Appendant to his Imperial Crown a distinct Legislature is necessary as well as a distinct Jurisdiction then Wales which in many of our Statutes is call'd a Dominion was no distinct Dominion or Principality if it at any time continued in the Crown without having Parliaments of their own or being represented here by Members of their own chusing but thus it was with Wales from the 12 th of E. 1. to the 34 th of H. 8. in right of E. 1 st's Conquest as Sir John Davis or the Judges in his time call the Acquisition of that Dominion and as 't is there E. 1. changed their Laws and Customs as he had express'd in his Charter or the Statute of Rutland which follows Divinâ providentiâ terram Walliae cum incolis suis prius nobis jure feodali subjectam in proprietatis nostrae dominium totaliter cum integritate convertit coronae regni nostrae annexit By the Divine Providence the Land of Wales with its Inhabitants before subject to us by feudal Right we have turn'd wholly and entirely into the Dominion of our Propriety and annexed it to the Crown of our Kingdom And as to their Laws and Customs Quasdam de consilio procerum regni nostri delevimus quasdam permisimus quasdam correximus ac etiam quasdam alias adjiciendas faciendas decrevimus Some by the Counsel of the Peers of our Kingdom we have abrogated some we have permitted some we have corrected and besides some others we have added and decreed to be put in execution Here is a Title understood at that time of taking a Forfeiture for Rebellion against the Lord of the Fee and in consequence of this the King and his Peers in Parliaments took upon them to exercise a Legislative Power over Wales But notwithstanding that Wales was thus united and annexed to the Imperial Crown of England and absolutely subjected to its Legislature yet as is held in Davis's Reports this Principality of Wales not being govern'd by the common Law was a Dominion by it self and had its proper Laws and Customs That Report shews Wales by reason of these different Laws and Customs to be more distinct and separate from the Kingdom of England than Ireland is and that a Tenure of the Prince of Wales should not after its reduction under the Subjection of England become a Tenure of the Crown in chief but that it should be so in relation to Tenures of a County Palatine in Ireland as well as England because such a County in either Land was originally a parcel of the Realm and derived from the Crown and was always govern'd by the Law of England and the Lands there were held by Services and Tenures of which the common Law takes notice altho the Lords have a separate Jurisdiction and Seigniory separate from the Crown But that Tenure in Chief in Ireland as well as England could be no other than of the Crown of England appears not only by the Grants to the Electors Palatine or Lords Marchers of Ireland but in that Ireland was not raised into a Kingdom till H. 8's time The mention of Palatinates may well occasion a Comparison between the Land of Ireland and the County Palatine of Chester a distinct Royalty in the Principality of Wales that had its Parliaments within it self as 't is very probable from before the time of W. 1. it being certain that Hugh Lupus enjoyed that Earldom by Judgment of the Lords if not the Great Council in the time of W. 1. and their Parliaments may be traced from within the time of H. 3. downwards to their first having Representatives in Parliaments of the Kingdom 34 H. 8. Their provincial Parliaments were chiefly if not only for the granting Aids to the Crown but notwithstanding their being represented in Parliaments at home yet Laws were made here in the superior Parliament for the governing the Inhabitants of the County of Chester Now without considering whether Cheshire was a Colony from England or from Wales or mix'd or else a place exempt without regard to the being any Colony I may well hold that tho from before the time of W. 1. they had the privilege of being tax'd only by themselves or with their own Consent yet their Parliament was subordinate to the Great Council of the Kingdom of England and 't was no violation of the Right of their Parliament for the National Council to give them Laws for their better Government and to restrain 'em from acting to the prejudice of the Crown and
Parliaments of its own as free and independent as England or that it should be governed by the Laws made and to be made by England Mr. Molineux confesses that H. II. within five years after his Return from Ireland created his younger Son John King of Ireland at a Parliament held at Oxford he might have learn'd from the same Authority that in that Parliament he not only disposed of several petty Kingdoms there to hold of him and John his Son but Hoveden has these words which comprehend Lands as well as Governments Postquam autem Dominus Rex apud Oxenford in praedicto modo terras Hiberniae earum servitia divisisset fecit omnes quibus earundem custodias commisserat homines suos Johannis filii sui devenire But after the Lord the King had at Oxford in manner aforesaid divided the Lands of Ireland and their Services he caused all those to whom he had committed the Custody of them to do homage to him and his Son John to swear Allegiance and Fidelity to them Bromton says Apud Oxoniam idem Rex Angliae Johannem filium snum coram Episc regni sui Princip Regem Hiberniae constituit Et postea fecit quosdam familiares suos sibi Johanni filio suo ligantias fidelitates homagia contra omnes homines facere jurare Quibus terras Hiberniae dedit distribuit in hunc modum c. At Oxford the said King constituted his Son John King of Ireland before the Bishops and Princes of his Kingdom And afterwards he made some of his Courtiers to do and swear Allegiance Fidelity and Homage to himself and his Son John against all men To whom he gave and distributed the Lands of Ireland in this manner c. If what the King did in a Parliament was a Parliamentary Act here was an Act of the English Parliament which by Mr. Molineux's Confession impos'd a King upon Ireland to whom they had not sworn any otherwise than as they swore to submit to the English Laws and he should have observed that herein according to his own inference of the making Ireland a separate Kingdom the English Parliament undertook to discharge the Oath which the Irish had taken to be true to H. 2. and his Heirs and sutably to the Legislative Authority over Ireland in this Particular the same Parliament at Oxford disposed of and distributed the Lands of Ireland without expecting any Ratification from thence Here 's a Parliamentary and cotemporary Exposition of what this Gentleman calls the Original Compact between England and Ireland I must agree tho he has not observ'd it that notwithstanding H. Il's Acquisition in Ireland an Irish Native had quiet possession of a Kingdom which he seem'd to claim as chief King over the Irish This was Roderic King of Connaught who upon paying his Tribute and performing his appointed Service was according to Hoveden to hold his Land as he held it before H. II. enter'd Ireland which could not be true in a strict sense unless he were dependent upon the Crown of England before and however this was a Grant after a more absolute Acquisition and three years after Girald holds as do the Irish Statutes that he had conquer'd the whole Land of Ireland Abbat Benedict an Author of that time to be seen in the Cotton Library speaking of H. II. says Concedit Roderico ligio suo Regi Conautae quamdiu ei fideliter serviet ut sit Rex sub eo paratus ad servitium suum salvo in omnibus jure honore Domini Regis Angliae suo He grants to Roderic his Leige-man King of Connaught that as long as he faithfully served him he should be a King under him ready for his Service saving in all things the Right and Honour of the Lord the King of England and his As it appears by Record by the 7 th of King John the King of Connaught had two thirds duly taken from him for not performing his Service or else he never had more than a third of that Kingdom granted for then he acknowledged that he held a 3 d part in the name of a Barony and for the other two thirds proffers the King Duos Cantredos cum Nativis eorundem Cantredorum de praedictis duabus partibus ad firmandum in eis vel faciendum inde voluntatem suam Two Cantreds with the Natives of those Cantreds to let 'em to farm or to do with them what he pleased Thus I take it his Kingdom was as much dependent upon the Crown of England as any Barony in Ireland or England and as subject to Forfeiture And 't is probable that this King was the head of the O Conoghors of Connaught who are 3 E. 2. admitted to be entituled to the English Law But tho the Law of England was not current beyond the English Pale or those Cantreds and Divisions of Irish who continued under Obedience to the English yet the Crown of England has from very antient times not only laid claim to the Lordship over the whole Land of Ireland but their Parliaments have recognized this Right more than once Mr. M. if he had pleased might have found that Acts of Parliament made in Ireland lay a much earlier Foundation of the Right of the Crown of England to the Land of Ireland even than our Confessor's Law does A Statute made in Ireland 1 Eliz among sundry Titles which the antient Chronicles in the Latin English and Irish Tongues alledge for the Kings of England to the Land of Ireland derives one from Gormond Son of Belin King of Great Britain This King our Historians call Gurgunstus and is said to have reign'd in Great Britain 375 years before the Christian Aerd Grafton agreeing with the Irish Statute tells us that in his return from Denmark he met with a Fleet of Spaniards which were seeking for Habitations to whom the King granted the Isle of Ireland to inhabit and to hold of him as their Sovereign Lord. The Statute made in Ireland 13 C. 2. recognizing his Title has these words Recognitions of this nature may seem unnecessary where your Majesty's Title to this your Realm is so clear as that it is avowed in sundry Acts of Parliament heretofore made within this Kingdom in the times of your Majesty's Royal Progenitors of famous memory and SO ANTIENT AS IT IS DEDUCED NOT ONLY FROM THE DAYS OF KING H. 2. your Majesty 's Royal Ancestor BUT FROM TIMES FAR MORE ANTIENT AS BY SUNDRY AUTHENTICK EVIDENCES MENTIONED IN THE SAID ACTS AND RECORDS OF THIS YOUR MAJESTY'S KINGDOM MAY EVIDENTLY APPEAR Since Mr. Molineux allows Acts of Parliament made in Ireland to have full Authority I hope he will confess that he has given a very imperfect and undue account how Ireland became a Kingdom annexed to the Crown of England and thus not here to observe that he need not have gone
of his stile of Lord of Ireland in imposing Laws and a King upon ' em And I would gladly know what Irish Laws and Customs he swore to maintain Tho therefore I am as avers to the common Notions of Conquest as this Gentleman especially to the supposition that God in giving one Prince a Conquest over another THEREBY puts one in possession of the others Dominions and makes the other's Subjects become his Subjects or his Slaves as they come in upon conditions or at the will of the Conqueror Yet I must desire Mr. M. to explain those Acts of Parliament made in Ireland which not only seem to import that the Crown and Kingdom of England had made an absolute acquisition of the Land of Ireland but use that scurvy word Conquest An Act 28 H. 8. recites That the King's Land of Ireland heretofore being inhabired and in dâ—e obedience unto the King 's most noble Progenitors Kings of England who in the right of the Crown of England had great Possessions Rents and Profits within the same Land had grown into great ruin and desolation for that great Dominions Lands and Possessions had by the King's Grants course of Descents and otherwise come to Noblemen of England by whose negligence the wild Irish got into possession the Conquest and winning whereof in the beginning not only cost the King 's noble Progenitors but also those to whom the Lands belong'd charges inestimable and tho the King's English Subjects had valiantly opposed the Irish yet upon their absenting themselves again out of Ireland the Natives from time to time usurped and encroached upon the King's Dominions and particularly that the Earl of Kildare with his accomplices endeavour'd to take the Land of Ireland out of the King's possession and his Heirs thereof for ever to disherit For these and divers other hurts and enormities like to ensue to the Commonweal of the Island in respect of the inestimable Charges which the King had sustained and apparently had occasion to sustain for and about the conquest and recontinuance of the same out of his Enemies possession tho the King had right to all the Lands and Possessions there referr'd to and tho he might justly insist upon the Arrears of two parts of the Land of those who had absented themselves which might amount to more than the purchase of 'em it vests in the King and his Heirs as in the Right of the Crown of England only the Lands of some particular persons The Stature of the Queen attainting Shane Oneile speaks of populous rich and well-govern'd Regions wealthy Subjects beautiful Cities and Towns of which the Imperial Crown of England had before that time been conveniently furnished within the Realm of Ireland which after being lost had been recontinued to the Queen 's quiet possession But the Rebel Shane Oneile refusing the name of a Subject and taking upon him as it were the Office of a Prince had enterprized great Stirs Insurrections and horrible Treasons against her Majesty her Crown and Dignity imagining to deprive her Highness her Heirs and Successors from the real and actual possession of her Kingdom of Ireland her true just and ancient Inheritance to her by sundry Descents and authentick strong Titles rightfully and lawfully devolved And having mention'd a Title from Gurmond the Son of Belin King of Great Britain says Another Title is as the Clerk Giraldus Cambrensis writeth at large of the History of the Conquest of Ireland by King H. 2. your famous Progenitor The Title to the Land then recognized was abundantly strengthned and confirmed by Irish Parliaments in the time of J. 1. and since In the Act of Recognition to J. 1. they tell him of his having quench'd the most dangerous and universal Rebellion that ever was rais'd in that Kingdom in the suppressing whereof the unreform'd parts of the Land which being rul'd by Irish Lords and Customs had never before receiv'd the Laws and civil Government of England were so broken and reduced to Obedience that all the Inhabitants thereof did gladly submit themselves to his Highness's ordinary Laws and Magistrates which gave unto his Majesty a more entire absolute and actual possession than ever any of his Progenitors had All Ireland being thus brought into subjection to the Crown and Laws of England K. James taking notice of Laws which had been made after the Conquest of that Realm by his Progenitors Kings of England to keep up the distinction between the English and the Natives of the Irish Blood that he had then taken 'em all into his protection and that they lived under one Law as dutiful Subjects of their Sovereign Lord and Monarch repeals those dividing Laws After this the Irish Parliament granted C. 1. four Subsidies rightly considering the vast and almost infinite expence of Men Mony Victuals and Arms sent out of England thither by the King and his Royal Progenitors for reducing that Kingdom into the happy condition wherein it then stood And sutably to the import of the word Conquest Acts of Parliament of that Kingdom in the Reign of that King shew that the Titles to Lands of the English Plantation or which they from time to time gain'd from the Irish were enjoy'd by Grants from the Crown and for securing the Estates to Vndertakers Servitors Natives and others all the Lands in several Counties commonly call'd Plantation Lands were vested in the King his Heirs and Successors in right of the Imperial Crown of England and Ireland The Stat. 14 15 C. 2. holds the Irish Rebels to be subdued and conquer'd Enemies and therefore vests all their Lands in the Crown of England in order to make satisfaction to the Protestant Adventurers for the reducing that Kingdom to its due obedience and to enable the Crown to extend Grace to such as should be held deserving of it Reprisals being first made to the Protestant Proprietors Tho therefore I am far from admiring the Lord Coke's reasoning in Calvin's Case I may here subjoin part of Mr. M's reflection upon him and refer him to the Irish Acts of Parliament to qualify his Censure of the Ld Coke's restriction of the Opinion in the Year-book 2 R. 2. that the Irish are not bound by Statutes made in England because they have no Knights of Parliament here which says the Lord Coke is to be understood unless they be specially named To this assertion Mr. Molineux admits he gives colour of reason by saying That tho Ireland be a distinct Dominion from England yet the Title thereof being by Conquest the same by Judgment of Law might by express words be bound by the Parliaments of England To confound the Lord Coke I would fain know says this Gentleman what the Lord Coke means by Judgment of Law Whether he means the Law of Nature and Reason or of Nations or the Civil Laws of our Common-wealths For answer to which I need at present only
the Crown of England since as King he could have no other Heir But as this may manifest that the Parliament which made John King of Ireland design'd him no more than a subordinate and vicarious Authority 't is plain he himself did not think he had more in the Seal which he used he stiled himself Son of the King Lord or who is Lord of Ireland Nor is there the least footstep of any Coronation Oath taken by John as King of Ireland or that he ever wore an Irish Crown Notwithstanding that share in the Government of Ireland which John had in his Father's life-time Ireland upon the Father's death fell to R. 1. and the Archbishop of Dublin was assisting at his first Coronation before he went to the Holy War Nor did John ever pretend to be King of Ireland while R. 1. lived more than of England which having attempted while his Brother was in Foreign parts far remote upon his Brother's return he was by Parliament deprived of all his Honours and Fortune And thus at least he lost his suppos'd Royalty of Ireland if it did not expire upon the death of H. 2. and this shews how rightly Polidore judged in calling him Regulus or Viceroy I will therefore admit Mr. M's supposal that R. 1. had not died without Issue but his Progeny had sat on the Throne of England in a continued succession to this day but cannot admit the other part of his supposal that the same had been in relation to the Throne of Ireland since John never had such Throne either before he was King of England nor after and therefore I may well conclude that the subordination of Ireland to the Parliament or even to the King of England need not arise from any thing that followed after the descent of England to King John Nor indeed was John King either of England or Ireland by descent but that Election of the States of the Kingdom of England which made him their King preferring him before Arthur an elder Brother's Son drew after it the Lordship of Ireland as an Appendant to the Crown of England And however if H. 2. had not sufficiently brought the Irish under the English Laws John did after he came to be King of England In the 9 th of his Reign he imposed Laws upon them in a Parliament of England not indeed without the desire and counsel of such English Lords who had Lands in Ireland but then their consent would have been involved in the consent of the majority here tho those Lords should have expresly dissented But the Authority was derived from the consent of the King 's faithful People which is mentioned as distinct from the desire or petition which occasioned the Law then made in a Parliament of England for the expelling Thieves and Robbers out of the King's Land of Ireland For the effectual execution of this Act of Parliament King John's Expedition seems to have been undertaken the next year when he entirely subdu'd his Enemies and confiscated the Estates of some of the English great Men in Ireland Which Confiscation seems to have been after his return to England but before that or at some other time in his Reign he made a Law in Ireland which he commanded to be observed there That all the Laws and Customs which are in force in England should be in force in Ireland and that Land be subject to the same Laws and be govern'd by them This was before any pretence to their having any Charter for a Parliament other than the supposed sending over the modus tenendi Parl. by H. 2. and is before the time that Mr. M. takes a regular Legislature to have been established among them Therefore according to himself we must repute them to have submitted not only to such Laws as had before that time been made in Parliaments of England but such as should be made till they of Ireland should have the establishment of a regular Legislature However Mr. M. will have it that John gave Laws to Ireland not as King of England but as Lord of Ireland and forms a pretty sort of an Argument from the stile of Lord of Ireland as if this were an Argument that 't is not dependent upon the Crown of England so excellent a faculty has he of making contraries serve his purpose But 't is very unlucky that John's retaining this stile is not only an Argument that Ireland is a Dominion or Land appendant to the Crown of England but that John was never King of Ireland which he would certainly have kept up as a distinct Interest if he ever had such a Title separate from the Crown of England H. 3. being made K. of England by the like choice of the States which preferr'd him before Arthur's Sister as they did John before the Brother in concurrence with these States truly acted as Lord of Ireland as might be shewn by numerous Instances In the 18 th of his Reign upon matters signified to him out of Ireland he summoned the Archbishops Bishops Earls Barons and all the great Men or Nobility of the Kingdom of England to a Parliament at London to treat about the State of his Kingdom and of his Land of Ireland And in the 21 of his Reign he sends a Writ to the Archbishops and others of Ireland acquainting them that by the common consent of the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Earls and Barons of the Kingdom of England alterations of the Law of England were enacted as to the Limitations of several Writs which were then required to be observed in Ireland in pursuance of the Statute of Merton In the 37 th of his Reign an Irish man having pleaded that he and his Brother and their Ancestors had always bin faithful to the Kings of England his Predecessors and served them in the CONQUEST OF THE IRISH they are by peculiar licence under the Great Seal of England admitted to enjoy by descent as Englishmen Which was an alteration of the Law and Custom of Ireland as to those particular Persons without any Act of Parliament there Indeed but four years after 't is recorded that 't was long before and many Ages past which must reach beyond the Expedition of H. 2. provided and yielded by the assent and desire of the Prelats and great Men of the Land of Ireland that they should be bound by the Laws us'd in the Kingdom of England Yet the same Record restrains this to the consent of only the English of the Land of Ireland However 't is beyond dispute that the English Laws both made and to be made in England were then held to reach as far as the English Interest in the Land of Ireland and this according to the Record 18 H. 2. above referr'd to was provided de communi Consilio Regis by the King 's Common Council tho by what
to be Governed and an assurance that they should have no Laws imposed upon them in any other manner than upon such of the English here as had no Votes in the making Laws But one end at least of the sending over that Charter must needs have been suitable to the declared end of a Subsequent sending King John's Charter when the Justice of Ireland was required to Summon not only the Great Men but the Free-holders of every County who after the Laws had been read to them were to swear to the observance of them beside which they were to be Proclaim'd in the several Counties 5. Admit the Charter sent to Ireland 1. H. 3. had given the Irish Liberty to hold Parliaments with Representatives from all parts of that Land according to the English Form This Liberty was derived from a Convention of the States of the Kingdom of England or Parliament in the Minority of a King who had no Judgment of his own was under the Government of a Subject whom the States had set over him and the Kingdom and that King was manifestly Chosen by them to the setting aside Eleanor who had the Right of Descent as far as that could avail So that the King could have no pretence to the imaginary divine Right of Succession and therefore that Charter must have been derived from the Grant of the People of England And besides the Record shews that this tho' sent by the advice of all the King 's faithful People was thought to want some Formality to make it a Parliament the Assembly in which it was advised being held by a Regent may be thought to have occasioned the reference to a greater or more solemn Council However such reference shews that 't was not their Intention to be concluded by what was then done and when a Charter is afterwards sent over in full Form then there 's not a word of Concession but an absolute Command that the Laws be publish'd and obey'd However take the Charter sent them 1. H. 3. in the utmost extent imaginable 't is not to be thought that while the English Parliament gave those of the English Pale or others in Ireland Liberty to hold Parliaments they divested themselves of that Authority by which they gave such Liberty To use the Words of the great Man Grotius Se per modum legis id est per modum superioris obgare nemo potest Et hinc est quod legum Auctores habent jus leges suas mutandi Potest tamen quis obligari suâ lege non directè sâ—d per reflectionem ex aequitate naturali quae partes vult componi ad rationem integri No Man can bind himself by way of Law that is as a Supâ—rior And hence â—tis that Law-makers have Right to change their Laws Yet one may be bound by his own Law not directly but by reflexion from natural Equâ—ty which requires the parts to be compos'd with respect to the whole 6. Admit the Charter sent 1. H. 3. being by consent of the States of the Kingdom of England should be taken for an absolute departure from Power before vested in them then it ought to be taken Strictiâ—juris and to confer no Rright beyond what is express'd And therefore 1. The Men of Ireland had a Grant only of such Liberties as were sent them distinctly reduced into Writing And unless the usual Practice of sending over the Laws made here be taken to explain this or they shew the very Charter then sent 't is to be supposed that only such Liberties were Expressed and Granted them as were proper for an Appendage to the Crown of England 2. If all King John's Charter were sent them which I may well admit according to the explanation of the following usage unless they can prove as we can here that before that time they had Common Councils of all the Land of Ireland for all Matters of Publick concern and that the Maxim here had obtain'd there Those things which concern all ought to be treated of by all the only end of Common Councils of the Kingdom of England expressed in King John's Charter being in relation to the principal Grievance about the raising of Aids to the Crown the Grants to Ireland could extend no further than a Liberty to have such a Council for the raising Aids And there 's no doubt but more Money may be rais'd by such National Consent than can be in the most Arbitrary way which abates the force of the Argument from H. 3. his desiring the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors Earls Barons Knights Freemen Cities and Burroughs of the Land of Ireland to Aid him as much as they could with Men and Money And hence tho' 't would have been no breach of King John's Charter for the King to raise Aids of his Tenents in Chief for making his Eldest Son a Knight without calling for them to any Council that being one of the exceptions out of the Liberties expressed in that Charter yet H. 3. writ to the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors Earls Barons Knights and all his Freemen of the Land of Ireland intreating them to give him such an Aid 6. After all to shew how little there is in his mighty Argument from the Writ 1. H. 3. Let him take his choice either that the English in Ireland had a Parliament granted or confirmed to them by the Charter sent along with the Writ 1. H. 3. or they had not If they had then those Laws which were made here after such Establishment in pursuance of the desire of them from Ireland shew that neither the Parliaments of England nor they of Ireland thought they had any Power to make Laws there If there was no Grant or Confirmation of any Parliament there then the Concession of English Laws and Liberties was no more than a Declaration that they should be governed by the Laws made and to be made by Parliament in England or receiv'd there by the consent of the People giving Force and Authority to their own approved Customs But since after all Mr. M.'s learned Flourishes about the Setling of Parliaments in Ireland by the Modus sent over in the time of H. 2. and subsequent Grants he admits that under the 3 Kings H. 2. King John and H. 3. and their Predecessors we must repute them to have submitted to the Laws made here in those Reigns for want of a regular Legislature establish'd among them And since whatever he admits there 's no Colour of such an Establishment by the end of H. 3. Let 's see what can be found in the next Reign E. 1. having in his absence from England upon the Death of H. 3. his Father been Elected and Declared King of England in a full Convention of the States of this Kingdom in a Writ sent by those States to Ireland 't is affirm'd that the Government of England and the Dominion or Lordship of the Land of Ireland belonged to
Concern it being for the encouraging of Purchasers and engaging the more Persons to a National Interest by Propriety in Land which till that time was in much fewer Hands because whoever purchased any part of an Estate had been liable to be charged with all the Rents and Services which lay upon the whole and there was one other necessary Provision against Alienations in Mortmain 4. The Precept to the Sheriff was to cause the Election to be made forthwith and to take care that the Parties were â—ound to be at Westminster by three Weeks after the Feast of St. John at the farthest The Day when the Parliament was holden was but 5 or 6 Days before which shews that 't is absurd to imagine that there should have been a Law made of that immediate consequence to all Owners of Land before the Knights of the Shire came up not only because they being obliged to be at Parliament by such a Day at the latest may well be supposed to have come 5 or 6 Days before the utmost extent of their time to avoid the Forfeitures of the Bonds which they us'd to give for their Appearance but chiefly because as 't is well known whenever a Law passes 't is in Judgment of Law held to have pass'd the first Day of the Session which Day might have been agreed at their former Meeting Nor is it absurd to believe that there might be a Summons to require the Sheriffs to secure Full Parliaments even tho the Days of Meeting and of Elections below might have been certain The true reason why so few Writs of Summons of those early times are to be found seems to be that once at least in a Year the Parliaments met of course The Confessor's Law speaks of the Calends of May as the fix'd Day In the 1st of E 1. the Custos of the Realm as appears above in the King's Absence issued Writs tho not for Elections to Parliament yet returnable into the Parliament to be holden next after Easter without mentioning any Day as if 't were commonly known but no Parliament being holden soon after Easter because of the King 's being out of the Land a Return into a Parliament appointed to sit after the King 's Landing was to a Day certain But that at the beginning of E. 1. the time of holding a Parliament was look'd upon as so fix'd that there was no need of Summons appears by that King's Letter to the Pope 3 E. 1. referring him to the Deliberation of the Peers of the Kingdom in a Parliament which used to be holden in England about the Octaves of the Resurrection of our Lord. 5. If the mention only of the Instance of the Great Men or Nobility be an Argument that the Law was then made before even the Knights of the Counties came up tho Summoned to Consult and Consent the many Laws which have pass'd immediately upon the King's Answer to the Petition of the Commons would argue as strongly that those Laws were made without the consent of the Lords but as in such case either they were included as part of the Community of the Kingdom or else the King answered by their Advice So at the making the Statute 18 E. 1. either the Commons were under the Word Magnates as the lower Nobility or Men dignified by being Senators or else the Great Lords finding themselves chiefly agrieved as being unable to pay their Debts because none would buy their Lands this Law might have pass'd chiefly â—t their desire But then since 't is manifest it was in Parliament 't was by the Consent of the Commons but I rather think that the Commons were then included under Magnates becâ—â—â—e I find them so in Times after thâ—s and that Petitions were made to them with as high Ascriptions as were given to the Great Lords In the 1st of E. 3. a Statute was made as one Record has it by the Common Council of the Kingdom as another by the King the Prelates Earls Barons and the Commonalty of the Realm and yet an Historian well conversant in the Records and common acceptation of Words in that Time speaking of this very Parliament and of the Queen Mother's coming to London with E. 3. her Son says Thither also Convened the whole Nobility of the Kingdom having been before Summoned to the holding a Parliament In after Times there are numbers of Petitions to the House of Commons from Persons of Quality from the City of London and others To the a Most Honourable or Right Honourable and Most Wise the Commons in this present Parliment Assembled The Honourable and Most Wise and the like c But some who will admit that the Knights of the Shire who indeed are in many Records call'd Grands of the Counties were part of the Magnates 17 E. 3. will have it that the Citizens and Burgesses were not because 1. They in those Times used to be distinguished by the Name of Commons from the Knights of the Shires 2. There 's no mention of any Summons tothem in the Records of 18 E. 1. when there was to the Knights of the Shires But for a full answer to this I desire it may be considered 1. That the Meeting 17 E. 1. appears by the Statute then made to be a Parliament that Dr. Brady himself has yielded that the Cities Boroughs and Cinque Ports and Vills had by King John's Charter right to be of the Common-Council of the Kingdom which is the Phrase most generally used in the Ancient Register of Writs to denote a Parliament 2. There were Boroughs long before the reputed Conquest As for instance St. Edmund's Bury or Burgh made a Borough in the Time of King Edmund confirmed in the Reigns of Cnute the Confessor W. 1. and other Kings 3. Boroughs frequently occur in Dooms-day Book that great Survey taken in the Reign of W. 1. and are mentioned as such in the Time of Edward the Confessor 4. No one Charter of ancient Times since W. 1. can be found giving any Borough right to send Members to Parliament but that has seem'd the consequent of being a Borough having a Gild for Merchandize and answering to the King or other chief Lord as one entire Body upon which account they appeared by Representation while individual Tenants were in the great Councils upon their Personal Right 5. That for asserting the Right of Boroughs to be represented in Parliament it generally was enough to plead that they were Boroughs yet one instance at least is to be found within two Reigns after the time of our present enquiry where a Borough Pleads or Alledges in Parliament that they had been made a Borough in King Athelstan's time and ever after had been represented in Parliament by two Members of their own chusing and this the then Parliament or the King's Council in it were so far from thinking improbable that upon that Borough's Allegation that the Charter
12. of H. 3. was to receive the Charter of King John and the King's Court or Bench in Ireland was to receive the Statute of Merton I will agree that Parliaments in Ireland may have received Laws in the time of E. 2. but there 's no colour to believe that they then pretended to more in relation to Acts of Parliament sent over to them at large under the Great Seal of England The Reign of E. 3. I may divide into Three Periods 1. Before 2. At 3. After the main and most express Charter for a Parliament in Ireland of any yet cited or appearing 1. In the Statute Roll of the beginning of E. 3. there are several entries in Latin of this kind Mem. that those Statutes were sent into Ireland in the form of a Patent with a certain Writ here following But the entry of the Writ is sometimes omitted it being look'd on as matter of common form In the 2 d. of that King a Statute was made at Northampton giving a command about Fairs to all Sheriffs of England and other Parts In the 6 th a Statute was made supplying the Defects of that Statute and creating the Forfeiture of double the Value of what should be sold in any Fair or Market beyond the time limited for them in the Charters In the 6 th of that King this last Statute and all other Statutes made in his Reign to that time are sent in the form of a Patent to Anthony de Lucy Justice of Ireland requiring that those Statutes and all the Articles therein contained be Proclaimed in the King's Land of Ireland as well within Liberties as without and that he should cause so much of them as concern'd the Justice and the People of that Land to be firmly kept and observed A Statute 11. of E. 3. provides That except the King and his Children no Person great nor small within England Ireland and Wales or so much of Scotland as was then under the King's power should wear any Cloth but what was made in England Ireland Wales or such part of Scotland upon pain of Forfeiture of the Cloth and being Punish'd at the King's pleasure And whereas Mr. M. according to the use which he makes of publications in or by Parliaments in Ireland of Laws made in Parliaments of England would infer that no Statutes made here against Provisors could be of force in Ireland till the 32 d. of H. 6. when 't was Enacted there That all those Laws made in England as well as in Ireland be had and kept in force 't is evident that E. 3 d's Parliament and his Council acting in Parliament held that there was no need of other publishing and enforcing those Laws than was usual by virtue of the Great Seal of England The Commons Petitioned that the Provisions and Ordinances made in the Parl. 17. of that King concerning Provisions and Reservations from the See of Rome be affirmed by a Statute to endure for ever And particularly that if any Arch-Bishop or other Spiritual Patron do not present within Four Months after Voidance by a Man's accepting any Benefice from the See of Rome the Right of Patronage should accrue to the King And they pray that Commissions and Writs be sent to all ports of England Wales and Ireland and other Places within every County as there should be occasion to Apprehend all those who should carry any of the Bulls Process or Instruments then complained of The Answer in French is thus 'T is accorded and assented by the King the Earls Barons Justices and other Sages of the Law that the Things above-written be done and in reasonable form according to the prayer of the Commons Upon which there 's no doubt but either a Writ was sent to Ireland with this Act of Parliament in the form of a Charter to warrant Commissions for that purpose in Ireland or otherwise Commissions might issue from hence to apprehend such Offenders as should be found there The Statute of the Staple 27. E. 3. taking notice of the Damages to the People of the King's Realm and of his Lands of Wales and Ireland because the Staples had been held out of the said Realm and Lands appoints places for the Staple in Ireland as well as in England and Wales and creates a Forfeiture of the Wool and other Staple Commodities which any English Irish or Welsh should carry out of the said Realm and Lands with the like Penalty if they should receive Gold or Silver for them elsewhere than at the respective Staples At which Staples 't is to be observed that there were paid Duties and Customs granted by Parliament in England Another Statute of the same Year appoints That all Wines in England Ireland and Wales be Gauged on pain of Forfeiture and further Punishment at the King's pleasure And but Two Years before the Statute of Treasons which does not name Ireland was made for a Law to the whole Realm and for Ireland as part of it But none of the King's Subjects in Ireland were within that Law unless they were to be adjudged Subjects of the Realm of England And yet this Statute is ordered to be published and observed in Ireland as well as England in this manner To the Sheriff of Kent greeting We send you under our Seal certain Statutes made in our Parliament assembled at Westminster on the Feast of St. Hillary last past by us the Prelates Dukes Earls Barons and others of the Commonalty of our Realm of England to the said Parliament summoned Commanding that you cause the said Statutes to be read in your full County and that they be firmly observed and kept Teste the King at Westm the 6 th day of May. The like Writs of the same Date are sent to the Justice of Ireland what ought to be changed being changed But if the Parliaments of England had or exercised any Jurisdiction or Authority over Ireland hitherto at least 't is to be thought that 't was all taken from 'em by a Charter of E. 3. part of which he transcribes out of Mr. Prynn but for his satisfaction I shall give him more of it from the Record now to be seen in the Tower 't is a Charter of R. 2. of an Ordinance for the State of Ireland reciting and confirming the Charter 31. E. 3. beginning thus Quia ex frequenti side dignor insinuatione accepimus quod terra nra Hiberniae ecclesiaque Hibernica ac clerus populus ejusdem nobis subditus ob defectum boni regiminis ac per negligentiam in curiam Ministror regior ibin tam major quam minor hactenus turbati fuerint multipliciter gravati Marchiaeque terrae ipsius juxta hostes positae per hostiles invasiones vastatae occisis Marchionibus depraedatis eorum habitationibus enormiter concrematis caeterisque coactis loca propria deserere
quibusdam videlicet ad hostes caeteris ad loca extranea fugientibus Diversaeque partes dictar Marchiar taliter desolatae derelictae per hostes eosdem occupatae nostraque ejusdem terrae negotia incongruè inutiliter leges approbatae consuetudines minus debite observatae populo nro bonis rebus suis contra justitiam legem formam Statutor inde editor diversimode spoliat paxque nostra laesa minime custodita Ac proditores Latrones Malefactores non sicut convenit castigati Quorum malorum aliorumque occasione majora damna irreparabillia evenire quod absit timentur nisi praemissis opportunis reme diis occurrat Nos desiderantes utili regimini quieti eorund terrae populi providere quae sequuntur propterea deassensu consili nostri ordinanda duximus firmiter observanda In prim viz. volumus praecipimus quod sancta Hibernica ecclesia suas libertates liber consuetudines illaesas habeat eis liberè gaudeat utatur Item volumus praecipimus quod nostra ipsius terrae negotia ardua in consiliis per peritos consiliarios nostros ac praelatos magnates quosdam de discretioribus probatioribus hominibus de Partibus Vicinis ubi ipsa consilia teneri contigerit propter hoe evocandos In Parliamentis vero per ipsos Consiliarios nros ac Prelatos Proceres aliosque de terra nostra proutmos exigit secundum justitiam legem consuetudinē rationem tractentur deducantur fideliter timore favore odio aut pretio postpositis discutiantur etiam terminentur Because from the frequent Relations of Persons to be credited we understand that our Land of Ireland and the Irish Church and the Clergy and People subject to us thro' defect of good Government and by the negligence and carelesness of the King's Officers there both great and small has hitherto been manifoldly troubled and aggriev'd and the Marches of that land plac'd against the Enemies wasted the Marches being kill'd and despoil'd their Houses enormously burnt and the rest being forc'd to forsake their habitations some flying to the Enemies and others to Foreign Parts And divers parts of the said Marches so desolated and forsaken have been possess'd by those Enemies and the Affairs of us and that Land are incongruously and unprofitably and the Laws and approved Customs not duly observed our People being in divers manners spoil'd of their Goods and things contrary to Justice Law and the form of Statutes in those cases provided And our Peace is broken and not in the least kept And Traytors Robbers Malefactors not punish'd as they ought By occasion of which and other Evils greater irreparable Damages which God forbid are feared as likely to happen unless the Premises meet with opportune Remedies We desiring to provide for the convenient Government Quiet of that Land People therefore we by the consent of our Council have thought fit to provide these following Particulars to be ordain'd and observ'd In the first place that the Holy Irish Church have its Liberties free Customs unhurt and enjoy usethem freely Also we will and command That the Affairs and Arduous Matters of us and that Land in Councils by our Learned Counsellors and Prelates and great Men and some of the more Discreet Honest of the parts neighbouring upon the place where those Counsels shall happen to be held to be summoned for this purpose But in the Parliaments by those our Counsellours and Prelates Peers and others of our Land as custom requires be according to Justice Law Custom and Reason brought and faithfully Fear Favour Hatred or Price being disregarded discussed and also determined Then particular Provisions are made here notwithstanding the Allowance of Parliaments there Among which 1. That Men guilty of Broakage should be Punished by the Justice and Council of Ireland and fined and amoved from their Offices as should seem reasonable to the Justice and Counsel 2. That no Purveyance be taken contrary to the form of Statutes and Articles made and published for the profit of his People in Parliaments and other great Councils But if there be any force in Mr. M's way of Arguing the Statutes against Purveyors were not binding to Ireland till 18. H. 6. when 't is Enacted By a Statute made in Ireland that all the Statutes made in England against the Extortions and Oppressions of Purveyers are to be holden and kept in all points and put in Execution in this Land of Ireland 3. It provides against Robberies and for Hue-and-Crys according to the Statute of Winchester 4. That no Pardon be pass'd but in Parliaments or Councils by the assent and counsel of the said Parliaments and Counsellors And that there be no general Pardon but that the Offences be specified and expressed according to the tenor of a certain Statute by the King and his Council of England publish'd and sent to Ireland to be observed 5. The Charter taking Notice that false intelligence us'd to be sent from Ireland to England forbids it under grievous Forfeiture declaring that if for the future the Prelates the great Men Commonalty or any other should misinform the King and his Council they should be duly Punished 6. Whereas they us'd to Exhibit against one another several scandalous and vexatious Libels and Bills it provides that they being reduced to Writing be under the Seal of the Chancellor for the time being transmitted to the King's Justice Chancellor and Treasurer of Ireland who are thereby impowered to do Justice but this is by virtue of the great Seal of England 7. It Impowers the Justice calling to him the Chancellor and Treasurer with some Prelates and Earls whom he shall know to be fit or that they ought to be summoned to determine the Differences between the English of Irish Extractions and which were or should afterwards be of English 8. It requires the Justice and his Associates when there was any special Cause to certifie to the King his Council of England the Names of all Persons guilty and their Offences Since Mr. M. having as he fancied clearly made it out that for Ireland to be bound by Acts of Parliament of England is against several Charters of Liberties granted unto the Kingdom of Ireland thinks he had no need to add any other Authority than a piece of that Charter of the substance of which I have given an Account with all the distinguishing Expressions I might well enough close here and leave it to himself to consider whether when a Parliament is granted or allowed to the Land of Ireland in the fullest terms that ever it was in any King's Reign that can be shewn there was not at the same time a full exercice of the Power of the Crown and Kingdom of England in making Laws and requiring the Execution of others made in England without any
desire or expectation of a Ratification there And whether even their Parliaments are not threatned if they send false intelligence to England For full proof that in this Ordinance the Authority of the Parliament of England was reteâ—â—â—d and asserted I must observe to Mr. M. that this Noble Charter to Ireland is but according to the usual Methods of Publishing Acts of Parliament put under the great Seal and thereby made a Patent or Charter but 't was an Ordinancâ— or Act of Parliament for the State of Ireland as may be seen by the Statute Roll. 3. After this Statute mentioning Parliaments in Ireland the Parliament here exercised the same Authority in making Ordinances and Laws for Ireland and the King and his Council held Ireland to be bound by those Laws as part of the Realm of Eng land A Statute made in the 36 th of that King provides that no Lord of England nor any other Person of the Realm except the King and Queen take purveyance on pain of Life and Member and takes from Mayors and Constables of Staples all Jurisdiction in Criminal Causes but I do not find any mention of Ireland and yet that both King and Council judged that the publishing them in Ireland would avail as much as the publishing them in England appears by the Writ to the Sheriff of Essex and Hertfordshire requiring him to publish the Statutes and Ordinances then made by the King with the common assent of the Prelates great Men and Commonalty in his full Parliament at Westminster and to return the Writ with an Account of the Execution of it to the King in his Chancery This Writ is tested by the King And in the same manner commands are sunt to the Justice of Ireland But notwithstanding this Transmission to Ireland of Statutes made here one of which is about Purveyance which is at least the Second of this kind made to bind Ireland Mr. M. may if he pleases hold that this was not Law in Ireland till 18. H. 6. But after all I would intreat the favour of Mr. M. to inform me whether according to himself such Acts of Parliament in Ireland were needful to Confirm Laws made here when if he puts a right construction upon the Record above cited 9 E. 1. and of the Record 50 E. 3. of a Writ from hence for the Expences of the Men of Ireland who last came over to serve in Parliament in England The Men of Ireland us'd to send their Representatives hither to the making the Laws by which they were to be bound till this sending of Representatives out of Ireland to the Parliaments of England was found in process of time to be very troublesome and inconvenient But whatever Mr. M. may imagin in this matter that sort of representation of Ireland in the Parliaments of England was no more than they had in the time of H. 3. and have 't is likely generally had to this day of persons entrusted to sollicit the Affairs of Ireland upon their numerous Petitions to the King and his Council in Parliament for which Receivers and Triers used to be appointed or other matters of concern to them But whether they were chosen by their Parliaments when they had them or elsewhere their Expences as appears by the Record cited by Mr. M. were levied by Authority under the Great Seal of England But I will shew a Record of the time of H. 3. when I will agree that they had Nuntii Messengers deputed as 't is likely from a Parliament in Ireland H. 3. in his Writ or Letter to the Barons of Ireland takes notice that by the advice of his People he had given a favourable answer to some of their requests made known by persons deputed from them But because those persons alledged that their Instructions were to insist upon all the particulars of their Requests the King sends a Precept to the Justice of Ireland under the Great Seal of England requiring him as it seems to summon a Parliament for he was carefully to open the matters before the Barons of Ireland and to know what they would give for the Liberties they desired The Justice had no Authority to have those Liberties setled in a Parliament there but was to signify their Answer to the King upon which the King would do what should be fitting without taking any Right from them That this was to be done in Parliament here and that the Messengers from Ireland were no Members of that Council of the King's People which sent the Answer is beyond dispute nor is there colour to believe that any of their Deputies or Representatives had in any King's Reign more to do here than those of the time of H. 3. had But surely no Man but Mr. M. will conclude that such Instances or the mention of the Consent or Petition of the Irish in some Particulars manifestly shew that the King and Parliament of England would not enact Laws to bind Ireland without the concurrence of the Representatives of that Kingdom Since therefore I have proved to the contrary from H. 2's first acquisition till towards the latter end of E. 3. and Mr. M. declares that he will consider the more antient Precedents of English Statutes which particularly name Ireland and are therefore said to be of force in that Kingdom I might rest here did not Mr. M. take notice of the Statute of the Staple 2 H. 6. and the Resolution of the Judges upon it 1 H. 7. in such a manner as makes it requisite to be set in a truer Light The Merchants of Waterford pursuant to the Licence granted them by E. 3. and confirmed by E. 4. had carried Wool contrary to the ordinary provision of the Statute 2 H. 6. which being seized by the Treasurer of Calâ—is as forfeited part to the King and part to himself as discoverer The Merchants by Bill in the Exchequer here pray restitution 'T is to be observed that the Act upon which the Wool was seized tho it creates a forfeiture of the value of Wool Butter Cheese and other staple Commodities carried from England Ireland and Wales to other parts than Calais and gives the Informer a 4 th of what shall be carried contrary to that Act from any County of the Realm makes no mention of Ireland as to the Informers share and therefore his Interest could bear no debate unless Ireland had been included and the Counties of Ireland were Counties within the Realm of England But Mr. M. says the 2 d Question was Whether the King could grant his Licence contrary to the Statute and especially where the Statute gives half the Forfeiture to the Discoverer But he might have observed that the Statute has an express saving of the King's Prerogative which goes thrô the whole and certainly related to the King 's granting Licences to the contrary in some particular
in the same bottom as the King does in England I say almost on the same bâ—ttom for the Irish Parliament have not only a Negative as the King has in England to whaâ—ever Laws the King and his Priâ—y Councils of both or either Kingdom shall lay before them but have also a liberty of proposing to the King and his Privy Council here such Laws as the Parliament of Ireland think expedient to be pass'd which Laws being thus proposed to the King and put into form and transmitted to the Parliament here of Ireland according to Poyning's Act must be pass'd or rejected in the very words even to a little as they are laid before our Parliament we cannot alter the least Iota In this Narrative of their Constitution under that Law he has omitted the mentioning what is very material that the Kings answer to what they propoâ—e is to be transmitted under the great â—eal of England and this is to be the Licence and Authority for the holding a Parliament in Ireland and therefore their Acts of Parliament since that settlement mention their being held by Authority under the Great Seal of England And there were two obvious ends and effects of this Law as Mr. M. himself owns 1. The preventâ—on of any thing passing in the Parliament of Ireland surreptitiously to the prejudice of the King or the English Interest of Ireland to which I must add or of England 2. To take from the Irish there all colour of pretence of holding Parliaments as an independent Kingdom by virtue of any Authority within that Land But how the King's Prerogative in the Legislature was advanced by this I do not understand since long before as well as notwithstanding this supposed Constitntion of an Independent Parliament held by Authority from the Great Seal of England the King had and has the Prerogative not only to dissolve the Irish Parliaments at his Pleasure but never to call any which this Gentleman ought to fear least such a claim as he makes might occasion and I would gladly know what part of their Constitution provides for the frequent holding of Parliaments in Ireland yet frequency of Parliaments in England is an undoubted part of the Fundamental Constitution of the English Monarchy Farther is it any advance to the Prerogative in the Legislature that a Prince who has the full exercise of an absolute Legislature at home is only possessed of a Provision against having any attempt made to the lessening that his settled and indubitable Prerogative I must needs say this Gentleman has a way of arguing beyond my apprehension for I cannot see the consequence how the Prerogative should be advanced if as he will have it the Irish Parliament is put almost on the same bottom as that the King stands on in England if it be so I should think it a lessening of the Prerogative to have an Irish Parliament almost coordinate with him which Mr. M. is very fearful least an English Parliament should pretend to And I as little understand the reason he gives why the Parliament of Ireland stands almost upon the same bottom with the King for says he they have not only a Negative Vote as the King has in England but liberty to propose yet the Laws must be pass'd or rejected without alteration This I take to be Foreign to the bottom on which either the King or that Parliament stands If it be meant that they are in a manner as absolute in this negative and liberty of purposing as the King is in England since it relates only to Law first desired from Ireland either by the Privy Council or Parliament there this Constitution of their Parliament is so far from giving them a negative to the Laws pass'd in England with declared intention to bind them in Ireland that the Authority of England is wove into the very Constitution and the Parliaments of Ireland own that Authority by their very Sitting and Enacting Mâ— M. having represented that Constiâ—ution of their Parliaments by which he thinks they stand almost upon the same bottom as the King did here makes this strong assumption If therefore the Legislature of Ireland stand on this foot in relation to the King and to the Parliament of Ireland and the Parliament of England do remove it from this bottom and assume it to themselves where the King's Prerogative is much narrower and as it were reversed for there the King has only a negative Vote I humbly conceive 't is an encroachment on the King's Prerogative But he might consider 1. That as here by the Parliament he takes Lords and Commons without the King he mistakes the Fact in relation to their exercice of Power for they do not assume to themselves the Power of making any Law but with and under the King 2. Neither do they in the highest exercice of their Power take from the Irish any thing allowed or directed by Poyning's Law or any other Constitution 3. They do but assert the Chief Prerogative of the Crown of England by which due consent being bad our Kings give Laws to this Realm and all the Dominions belonging to it 4. The ancient course of the Proceedings of the Parliaments of England and their making all manner of Provisions for the Government of Ireland evince that Poyning's Law was rather an Indulgence to the English there directing a Method for their maintaining the face of a Legislature among themselves than any restraint of Power before vested in the Parliaments of England And after all this Law was never as I take it confirm'd by a Parliament of England I must not here omit the consequences which Mr. M. draws from the Parliament of England's pretending Power to impose any one Law upon Ireland 1. That 't will naturally introduce the Taxing them without their consent 2. That 't will leave the People of Ireland in the greatest confusion imaginable that they are not permitted to know which is the Supreme Authority which they are bound to obey whether the Parliament of England or that of Ireland or both and that the uncertainty is or may be made a pretence for disobedience 3. That 't will be highly inconvenient for England may make the Lords and People of Ireland think they are not well used and may drive them into Discontent 1. Not here to consider how far the Lordship of the Land of Ireland may infer the Taxing it if it should refuse to concur as it ought to its own Preservation since the Law of necessity is no farther to be used or considered than while the necessity is apparent I may say that this is no consequence to be apprehended and that as the Right of Taxing does not follow from the Right of Governing and the Nature of the Government depends upon the first Submission and that Interpretation and Confirmation of it which both the governing Nation and the governed have put upon it I must infer with deference to the National Authority that the