A LETTER TO A FRIEND CONCERNING USURY Wherein are mentioned all the Arguments formerly written for and against the Abatement of Interest Collected out of Four Tracts on that Subject One by Sir Thomas Culpeper Senior in 1621. Another by Sir Thomas Culpeper Junior in 1668. The Third by Sir Josiah Child in 1668. And the Fourth by Mr. Thomas Manley in 1669. By R. C. LONDON Printed in the Year 1690. SIR I Return you many Thanks for your Information by which after some time spent in search I found out all those Pamphlets about Interest which you discours'd of and in return of your Kindness I have sent you in short the Contents of a Tract against Vsury written by Sir Thomas Culpeper in the Year 1621. and presented to the Parliament in the 21st of King James the First with a Preface to a Discourse about Usury written by Sir Thomas Culpeper his Son in the Year 1668. And also some Arguments from brief Observations concerning Trade written in the same Year by Sir Josiah Child as is supposed with all the Objections against the reducing of Interest out of a Pamphlet ititled Interest of Six per Cent. c. written by Thomas Manley Gent. in the Year 1669. Being an Answer to the former Pamphlets by the reading of which you will be enabled to be a Judge of the Controversie Sir The Arguments in a Tract against Vsury Printed in the Year 1621. which was presented to the High Court of Parliament for the reducing of Interest from Ten per Cent. to Eight are these I. A high Interest decays Trade The advantage from Interest is greater than the Profit from Trade which makes the Rich Merchants give over and put out their Stock to Interest and the lesser Merchants break II. Interest being at Ten per Cent. and in Holland at Six our Neighbour Merchants under-sell us they can afford their Wares cheaper III. Interest being lower in Holland than in England their Contributions to War Works of Piety and all Charges of the State are cheaper unto them than unto us IV. Interest being so high prevents the Building of Shipping which is the Strength and Safety of our Island most Merchant-Ships being built in Holland V. The high Rate of Usury makes Land sell so cheap being not worth more than Fourteen or Fifteen Years Purchase Whereas in Holland where Interest is at Six it is worth above Five and Twenty So that a low Interest raiseth the Price of the Land Where Money is dear Land is cheap The Objections against bringing down of Interest which he takes notice of are these 1st That Money will be suddenly called in so all Borrowers will be greatly prejudiced To which he answers That it is not provable that the Lenders will call in their Money when they cannot make greater Interest any where else besides their Security upon Land is made better 2d Objection That as Money will be hard to be borrowed so Trade and Commerce hindred and the Kings Occasions for Money will not be supplied To this he answers That there will be fewer Borrowers for the Value of the Land being raised the Debts upon it will be sooner discharged and there being less occasion for Money to be lent upon Land it will the more easily be borrowed by the King's Majesty Traders or others especially by the King when he always gives more than Legal Interest 3d. There is much Money of Foreigners which when Interest is abated will be called for or carried out of the Land and so make Money scarce To this he answers That the Money of Foreigners is not brought into the Land by ready Coin or Bullion but by Goods or Bills of Exchange and when it is paid must be returned by Goods or Bills of Exchange and there will not be the less Money in the Land These are the Chief Heads of this Pamphlet which was printed Threescore and Ten Years since Sir The next is a Discourse written by Sir Thomas Culpeper his Son which because the Arguments are much the same I shall not trouble you with them but I have transcribed the Preface verbatim by which you may perceive the Sense of the Writer The Preface to a Book Intitled A Discourse shewing the many Advantages which will accrue to this Kingdom by the abatement of Usury IT is now about Forty five years since viz. 21 Jacobi That my deceased Father being a Member of the Parliament for that year first attempted the bringing down of Interest from Ten to Eight in the Hundred and Published a Discourse thereupon Wherein his endeavours assisted by many Patriots of that time so well succeeded that a Law was then made for that Purpose It passed with all the Opposition imaginable and nothing was left un-objected or un-answered which the Will of Man could devise for it was an untroden Path and must be hewn out by dint of Reason in regard none of those Arguments wherewith Experience hath since happily furnished us in great Plenty could then be produced At the passing of it he hath often told me That a Member of that Parliament of as great Authority and Esteem as any then sitting and a Principal Opposer spake to this Effect That though he could not protest yet he desired it might be remembred That he had foreseen and foretold the Inconveniencies that would ensue To which it was by my Father replyed That he desired it might likewise be remembred That he had Prophesied the many happy Effects of it viz. To the King in the improvement of his Customs To the Landlord in the advancement of his Rents and price of his Inheritance To the Merchant in quickness of his Trade and benefit of his Returns To the Borrower in the ease of his Condition c. And Issue was joyned concerning his Majesties Customs of Exportation as a Measure of all the rest Not many years after they met again and my Father pleasantly asked him whether he had lately been at the Custom-house which he as readily apprehending most ingeniously yielded the Cause Soon after this there was a long Vacancy of Parliaments till the year 1640. At which time my Father being strengthned with success and further incited by Intelligence from Holland that they had there newly abated their Interest set forth another Treatise to evince the necessity of reducing Money from Eight to Six the Ground-work whereof was That till we brought Interest to the same Rate with the Dutch our design was lame and our Grand Competitors would still have the start of us The Business was ready for the Mint and would cortainly have passed but that it was intercepted by unnatural Discord Hitherto the necessity of it did not so visibly appear it was as yet but convenience for the Dutch had then their hands full of their War with Spain which though prosperous enough was some Curb to their growth in Commerce Germany was so harassed and embroiled that it could neither Trade nor Till France so exhausted that it bought of us
much more than it sold Sweden a meer Limb of the French Interest we alone sitting under the Shaddow of our own Vines might afford to give them all great odds for all the Markets of the World were full of our Growth and thin of theirs The Kings Customs yearly greatly advanced the Gentleman daily raised his Rent yet duly received it which the Farmer chearfully paid and the Merchant their Factor thrived with his Principal Our Land was yearly improved and with it Our Manufacture increased Our poor generally employed and not turned a Charge upon the Land Our Debtors daily cleared themselves either by sale of Land or fortunate Industry So as in a short time There would have been no decay no leading into Captivity and no complaining in our Streets Betwixt 1640 and 1660 was a vast Gulf of Twenty Years ruine and distraction in this Kingdom during which time not to mention our own Declination viz. Anno 1647 happened the Peace at Munster whereby the Dutch being unmolested and secured from Spanish pretence were at leisure to intend their Trade and undermine Ours Germany hath had time to Re-people Re-build and Re-plant Sweden is become an Independent Power of much weight in the Ballance of Christendom And France first making Peace with the Emperor then with Spain by the Sovereignty of its Dominion the largeness and compactness of its Territory and the preheminence of its Soil and Climate is in a few Years become dangerous to us all Anno 1652. The Grandees of that Junto found themselves in a dangerous Dilemma For as on the side they saw That without encouraging Trade and Navigation their New Machine of a Commonwealth must soon fall so neither without the utter Oppression of the Nobility and Gentry could it long stand They therefore for the present Exigence contrived an Expedient by continuing all the Burthens upon Land and abating Interest to Six per Cent. They meant no question when they had once accomplished their purpose of ruining their Enemy the Landlord to bring it lower as yet it was not seasonable for scarce any Land-Taxes with very low Interest would greatly and suddenly hurt him But sure they were short-sighted if they did not see That Land-Taxes would destroy Trade though not so immediately yet as effectually as high Interest And that if by Embasing our Land we discourage its Improvement we nip our Trade in its very Bud. Anno. 1660. His Majesty being happily restored and the Kingdom settled my Father forthwith resumed his design of further abating Interest as the greatest of Blessings both to King and Kingdom But my Lord Culpeper dying who he knew had the same Thoughts and through whose Assistance only he hoped to effect it he soon gave it over finding as he said that the World was then intent upon other Game than Trade and despairing that himself should live to see it Yet before his death he recommended the Prosecution of it to me his Executor together with the Payment of his Debts Adding sometimes in jest That the Usurer and he were not yet even for he had only scratched the Usurer the Usurer had stab'd him but he hoped he might without Breach of Charity will me if I could to revenge his quarrel by doing good to the Usurer against his will Accordingly he made it the main drift of his private discourses with me in the last period of his Age being 87 Years old when he died about six Years since to arm me for his Encounter by possessing me not only with the Evidence but the Importance of the Argument by telling me frequently That when he was forgotten it would be revived That he wished it were not too late considered That it would at once Reform a thousand Abuses That he did not see how a Register could be till low Interest first made way for it by clearing Incumbrances That he marvelled Sir Walter Raleigh who wrote so many notable things concerning Trade Navigation and Fishing never harped upon this String That he could boast to have been happily instrumental in the recovery and preservation of many thousand Acres of excellent Marsh-Land but to his own loss by unhappily exposing himself to the Canker of Interest that Interest being high borrowing chargeable and all the burthens laid upon Land it was time for Gentlemen in debt if they meant honestly to wear Linsey-Woolsey and eat Eggs and Sallets to which we must all come by degrees for so the wary Spaniard in a barren Country supports himself against the extremity of Taxes In the same Year viz. 12 Car. 2. Six per Cent. being then generally practised That Convention holding it necessary to continue the said practice confirmed it by a Statute Intituled An Act for Restraining Excessive Usury The Preamble whereof is as followeth Forasmuch as the Abatement of Interest from ten in the Hundred in former times hath been found by notable Experience beneficia to the Advancement of Trade and Improvement of Lands by good Husbandry with many other considerable Advantages to this Nation especially in the Reducing of it to a nearer proportion with other States with whom we Traffick And whereas in fresh memory the like fall from Eight to Six in the Hundred by a late constant practice hath found the like success to the general Contentment of this Nation as is visible by several Improvements And whereas it is the endeavour of some at present to reduce it back again in practice to the allowance of the Statute still in force to Eight in the Hundred to the great discouragement of Ingenuity and Industry in the Husbandry Trade and Commerce of this Nation Be it therefore c. Confirmed 13 Car. 2. Cap. 14. After my Fathers decease I endeavoured what I could to propagate so fruitful a Plant and try if it would grow at London which I take it is not so far Northward as Amsterdam but for want of Eloquence I found my self always contradicted and foiled though I must needs say never convinced The most popular Argument I met with was this That Eight per Cent. were far more seasonable in our scarcity of Money Since 1. High Interest brings Money 2. Money brings Trade To the first of these Propositions I could have answered That the Money mentioned must be either Gotten Given or Lent Gotten I fear it cannot be at Eight per Cent. because I see that even at Six per Cent. our wisest Traders who both by their Stocks and Experience are best able to manage Trade daily decline it and betake themselves to Interest as a more steady Income leaving younger Men who commonly are more sanguine to feast themselves with Hope and buy their Experience Given I doubt it is not for I hear of slender Charity now stirring If it be Lent it must be re-paid with greater Interest than the Use of it will yield and that mars all To the second I could have shewn the vast difference where Trade brings Money as it doth in Holland and once did here and
to Three or Four per Cent. the Nobility and Gentry may presently in stead of Fifty write One hundred The Merchants who bear the Burden of the Day by trading upon Interest will find their Yoke lighter The Mariners Shipwrights Porters Clothiers Packers and all sorts of Labouring People would be more constantly imploy'd and the Farmers would sell the Product of their Land at better Rates He concludes with answering of several Objections which are the same as are before recited Sir The next Recitals are out of a Book entituled Usury at Six per Cent. c. written by Mr. Thomas Manly in 1669. wherein he designs to answer the two Books before-recited one written by Sir Tho. Culpeper junior and the other by Sir Josiah Child which he does so confusedly and to so little Purpose that I cannot find any thing considerable to take notice of only in the Main his design is to excuse the Usurer and to lay the blame of the decay of Trade from the dearness of the Commodities which he saith doth arise from the high Prises of the Workmen and Labouror Wagges and the Merchants and Traders living too well spending too much of foreign Commodities and drinking too much Wine so that he would have the People to be starved and go in Thredbare Clothes and drink nothing but Water or Small Bear that they might be the better able to pay Interest But because the main Design of his Treatise is to prevent the abating of Interest that I might be impartial to both sides I have recited every one of his Arguments which he devides into Nine He begins The many Mischiefs that will ensue from the abating of Interest are these 1. It will draw the Treasure of the Nation into a few Hands than which nothing can be more pernicious occasion the hoarding of it up in the Misers Chest by which I perceive he thinks the Userers will lock up their Money rather than lend it at Three or Four per Cent. but the Usurers are wiser Men and have learnt the Proverb That it is better to have half a Loaf than no Bread neither is Three or Four per Cent. so contemptable a Gain to be so slighted for many Gentlemen are now contented to Lett out Money at Four per Cent And the East-India Company gives no more than Three per Cent. at this time 2. It will make Money scarce to be borrowed that 's answered before for the Lenders do now put out their Money at Three and Four per Cent. before such a Law is made therefore will not refuse it afterwards 3. It will expose both at present and in the future an infinite number of Widows Orphans and other impotent Persons to great want and extremity This Objection was before answered by Sir Thomas Culpeper 4. It will encourage our Gentry to run into debt by making most of them bolder in borrowing 5. It will oblige the Nobility and Gentry to provide greater Portions for their younger Children 6. It will introduce a thousand tricks amongst the rank Usurers Brokers and Scriveners 7. It will cause the Dutch to withdraw their Money from us 8. It only can retard the Building of London c. But this is no Objection now nor ever would have been if London had not been Built no more than the other are before-recited 9. And lastly It will expose the Gentry who shall be in debt at the passing such a Law to many and great inconveniencies The Reasons are that he thinks the Money will be called for and not lent again by others though the Security be inlarged by the lowring of Interest which raises the value of Land Sir These are his Arguments the Weight of them I 'll leave to you to judge all that I observe from the Four Pamphlets is this First That the Land of England when Sir Thomas Culpeper wrote his Discourse was at Fifteen and Sixteen years Purchase and I see now that it is worth generally Two or three and Twenty which does solely arise from the abating of Interest Second That Interest was at Six per cent in Holland but after it was reduced to Eight in England it was reduc'd to Four in Holland and now being at Six here 't is there at Three So that they have always kept the same advantage in Trade from our over Ballence by Interest well understanding the Profit they have from thence Third That the Dutch sent Money here in England in those days and the lowring of Interest did not cause them to call it home but it were better for this Nation if it would for then they would return their Effects in our Native Commodities and not keep their lean Kine to be made fat by Interest as Sir Josiah expresseth it For if Money had not been then reduc'd every 1000 l. from the Interest of 10 per cent would have been now a Million according to Old Mr. Audley's Observation that One hundred Pound put out at Ten per cent would make a Hundred thousand Pound in Seventy years so long it is since Interest was first lowered Therefore the Memory of Sir Thomas Culpeper ought to be in high Esteem with this Nation being the first by his sagacity that brought down Interest or else perhaps the whole Land of England by this time had been mortgaged if not sold to the Dutch Lastly Sir Thomas his Arguments for abating of Interest from Ten to Eight which were That it would raise the Price of Land and promote Trade c. are the same as are now used to reduce Interest from Six to Four and experience hath shewn their good Effects and therefore we have Reason to expect the like advantage the Objections were the same then as now and therefore can have no greater Force nor worser Effects Sir I have exceeded the Bounds of a Letter which I could not avoid to bring the chief Contents of Twelve Sheets into Two without being unjust to some of the Authors and rendring my Endeavour unacceptable giving you an imperfect Account which was the chiefest of my Care to avoid SIR I am your most Obedient Servant R. C. Lond. Oct. 20. 1690. FINIS
where Money brings Trade as it doth still in Spain But I found the Torrent was not to be stemm'd and so reserved my Purpose for a calmer Season By this time the War with Holland was begun and all Discourses silenced with the Sound of Cannon the Event whereof was neither so good as we sometimes hoped nor so bad as once we feared but compounded of strange Disappointments and Deliverances Of all which the most profitable Use we can make is this That though we prevailed sufficiently by Blows and Booties yet we were first wearied with the Expence And no marvel if we duly consider the vast disproportion of our respective Charges For 3 to 6 or 4 to 8 bears the same Analogy as 30 to 60 or 40 to 80. Now if the States by commanding Money at 4 per Cent. could in Building Rigging Victualling Paying c. do that for 40 l. which must cost His Majesty 80 l. and I wish he had Money so cheap I suppose the Forces being otherwise reasonably ballanced scarce any Goodness of Ships Valour of Seamen or Advantage of Situation and Ports will countervail such Odds. Some Months after the Peace was proclaimed presuming that our late Experience and present Exigence could not but conduce to my Design by disposing many who were averse to receive Impressions contrary to their former Judgments and affording me at least some Illustrations I went to London with full purpose to promote it but found my self happily prevented by one Mr. Child a Merchant of known Abilities in Trade and choice Conversation who rising as it were out of my Father's Dust did by his own Sagacity find out this hidden Vein and lighting afterwards by meer chance upon one of my Father's Treatises modestly reprinted it with its proper Date and annexed it to his own excellent Treatise entituled Brief Considerations concerning Trade and Interest of Money Whose honest Endeavours for his King and Countries Service I am bound to assist with my utmost Skill and Power and in pursuance thereof have composed this Tract which with all humility I present to your Wisdoms In a Post-script he takes notice of this Objection That since the Law of the Land has setled the Rate of Interest the Usurer has a Property by Law to Interest and it would be as much wrong to make a Law to abate Interest as to take away so much of the Rent of every Man's Land And such a Law would be a great Prejudice to Widows Orphans and others who live upon Interest and know not how otherwise to employ their Stock To this he answers That as to Orphans it can be no prejudice because as the Law of England now stands Executors are not obliged to pay Interest Secondly That there is no Property or Right to Interest by the Laws of the Land but the Right doth solely arise by the Covenant and Agreement of the Party Both by Ecclesiastical and Statute-Law Usury was counted unlawful and those Statutes that afterwards limited Interest to 10 8 and 6 per Cent. did only take away the Penalties from the former Statutes but did not make it more lawful By the ancient Canons of the Church the Usurers were in the same Condition with the Excommunicated They were denied the Sacraments disabled to make Wills and not permitted Burial in Church or Church-yard By the Statute of the 3 of H. 7. it was Ordained That all Usury should be extirpated By the 11 of H. 7. He that lendeth his Money upon Usury shall forfeit one half thereof The Statute made in the 3 of H. 8. takes off the former Penalties and limits Interest to 10 per Cent. but in the same Statute declares Usury unlawful In the 5 of E. 6. the Law of H. 8. was Repealed and it was then Enacted That no Person should take Interest upon the Penalties of losing the Principal be Imprisoned and Fined at the King's Pleasure In the 13 of Eliz. the Law of E. 6. was Repealed and that of H. 8. was reinforced But in that Statute Usury is called a Vice and a detestable Sin and provides That it may be punished by the Ecclesiastical Law The Statute in the 21 of King James the First by which Interest was reduted from 10 to 8 relates the great Mischiefs from high Interest and provides That no Words in the said Act should be construed to allow the Practice of Usury as to the Point of Religion The Law made in 1652. being the same with that of the 12th and 13th of Car. 2. which reduced Interest from 8 to 6 takes notice in the Preamble of the great Advantage to the Nation by the bringing down of Interest and restrains under Penalties the taking above 6 per Cent. but gives no more Legal nor Ecclesiastical Right than the former Statutes By this it appears that Usury was accounted a Crime so that the abating of it is but the lessening of the Sin and if there was any Right from those Laws it was very uncertain And how severe soever the Lowering of Interest from 6 to 4 per Cent. may be to Widows Orphans and Younger Brothers yet they will still have as much Rent for their Money as the Gentry and their Elder Brothers have for their Land for the Land of England does not yield more than 4 per Cent. The next Remarks are from Brief Observations concerning Trade and Interest of Money written as is supposed by Sir Josiah Child in 1668. Amongst the several Means which he recites for the promoting of Trade he concludes That a Low Interest is the chiefest and lays down this Position That the Abatement of Interest is the Cause of the Prosperity and Riches of the Nation and that the bringing down of Interest in this Kingdom from Six to Four or Three per Cent. will necessarily in less than twenty Years time double the Capital Stock of the Nation He proves this very clearly by several Arguments which will be too long to recite I shall therefore only mention two of his Instances First That where Interest is high the People are poor and Money scarce as to instance in Spain Scotland and Ireland where Money is at 10 and 12 per Cent. the Inhabitants are poor ill fed and clad though Ireland and Spain are both very fertile Countries and to the latter all the Gold and Silver of the Indies are brought and yet there is seldom any but Brass Money seen in the Country On the contrary in Italy and Holland where Money yields not above Three per Cent. the People are Rich full of Trade and their Land sells from Thirty five to Forty Years Purchase Secondly That by the several Abatements of Interest in England we have so increased in Riches that now 2000 l. is esteemed no greater Portion than 500 l. was Fifty Years ago and a Knight now exceeds a Lord of those days in rich Clothes Plate Jewels c. and that we have almost a hundred Coaches for one we had then And if Interest were lowered